Seems like we've had many months, even years, of talk about the MN U18 boys. With winter tournaments and Midwest Regional League on the horizon, it will be interesting to see how all of the MN boys teams compete this club season.
It would be interested to see if any of the other regions took under age kids. It seems a strange thing to do, given the drastic difference in physical development. Haven't seen any of the players, just kind of wondering if this is comman.
10:03 must be a coach or have a kid playing. The brackets aren't up on mnyouthsoccer yet. The draw was this weekend though so I would expect them up this week for sure.
U18 will be BHK, AFC, SSM, SCV advancing from group play. Where is VLY??? I have heard of good results against teams over the winter from talking with people and am surprised they aren't listed. Any insider info?
Didn't VLY win the bracket that age group last year?
It would be kind of strange if they were not in the State Cup. However they have been very sucessful between High School and Club and perhaps feel they don't need to compete in State Cup.
4:11 and 5:56-interesting...MRL rule 2.02 states: "Any team making application to the MRL must have competed in the State Cup competition during the past seasonal year and must participate in its respective State Cup competition during the current seasonal year." Furthermore in regards to REgion II wild card slots, rule 5.01 says,"in each age group, two Wild Card slots to the US Youth Soccer Region II Championships may be awarded to MRL Premier Division teams. In order to be eligible for a Wild Card slot, the following conditions must be met: (a) The team must participate in their State Association State Cup competition for the US Youth Soccer National Championship Series during the current seasonal year..."
11:53 I think it is a regular occurrence to take younger kids to the regional and national ODP tournaments (but not a lot of them). The younger guys that were invited all looked strong enough to compete, one has been playing with the region II team consistently (and plays against older players in club), but was hurt and couldn't attend the AZ tournament. Oddly enough, he was given credit for the first goal (roster issue?) on the US Youth Soccer website (see the video highlights).
I don't think many younger guys would get selected if more of the true elite players in MN were asked to tryout. Is it the money that keeps some of these kids away? It just never looks like all the best are available.
All in all, 2-1 to the eventual champions and 4th in the nation isn't too bad.
Holker and JT did a nice job with the limited time they had with this group. The guys didn't seem to gel like they did at Region II. There were a couple differences in the roster, but just didn't seem like they had enough time to become a team again. But, competing against the top 3 in the country sometimes makes you look worse than you really are.
I was disappointed to see the President and Executive Director at the tournament but not at the ceremonies after the tournament and/or congratulating their team for competing??
Hey State Cup is coming! Let's all try to be proud of our kids teams but civil too!
Don't have a kid in the age group or program now. So, I don't have agenda per say.
What keeping the best players from showing up? When I looked at the roster it seemed like there were 3-4 underage players. Which seems like a lot. Was this all that showed up for the try outs? Did we scramble to get enough players and in the end had to take underage kids to get a full roster? If so, that so sad. That we can't even get enough interest from our players to attend a event that will have college coaches all over them to attend a try out. Would kind of show how badly we have failed to instill any passion for the game from our players.
Lot's of kids at the tryouts, just some of the younger kids are very good. The team was very close to the original that played at Region II, minus an injury, and a high school basketball player.
My point was that there are some really good players that don't show up. Not sure why. It looks like it happens at most of the age groups, you could be right that they possibly don't want to give up that much time...
I can confirm that the USSF Academy was on the SSM campus today. I heard that he had visited a club in the Twin Cities yesterday. I would assume it would have been MTA. There are no other clubs in the state that would make sense to be in the Academy.
A few years back I was on a local CC board and there was heated discussion about allowing a coach to take a U13 year old girl on a boys team. She was very good, an asset to the team. The board allowed it. In the next two following years, the numbers of boys trying out declined significantly. In the end the young girl went on to play hockey with her girl friends and the boys team folded due to a lack of interest.
I often wonder if the boys stopped going to try outs and competiting for that top team because they didn't want the razzling they would get when they were beat out by a girl. I also wonder if the girl would have continued to play soccer if she had made connections with other girls playing soccer.
As I recall this I am wondering if players stop trying out for ODP teams because they don't want to chance being edge out by under age player? I don't know, like I said I don't even know the age group. But I wonder if it is counter productive to take so many underage kids on the team?
3/18 7:39 am You hit it right on the head, there have been many very talented players passed over because of politics and favortism, ODP in Minneosta has been nothing but a farce for many years. ODP coaches should not be club or CC coaches but independent, then you would have a better selection process not tied to politics
Nope, but within 48 hours MYSA will have not followed another of its own directives. They are supposed to have the results out within one week, by their own documentation. What would happen if a club decided not to follow the timeline and not submit the paperwork by a deadline?
A club/team is always told NO when they miss a deadline. Look at NSC last year with USA Cup or a team that missed signing up for the summer state tournament.
10:28am--this is interesting, I wonder why wouldn't a team "protest" right when the draw was being held on Saturday? I mean really, a team either applies or doesnt' and either shows up at the draw or doesn't.. There must be something more to this as it's not rocket science?
There was only one '94 on the roster for the '93 ODP Championships - Edossa Muhamed. He ended up scoring the goal against Georgia in the semifinal game. All others were '93s and 16-of-18 players from the summer Regional Championships were on this roster. One was out due to injury and the other due to a high school basketball conflict as stated earlier. This is not much of a story for discussion about politics and favoritism, etc.
Obviously it was their choice not to participate in state cup, I think they are doing OK if they are winning MRL premier games by 3 goals, are we a little jealous MTA parent?
Hi 12:29. You have overlooked one itsy-bitsy detail about Valley not doing State Cup and MRL:
MRL rule 2.02 states: "Any team making application to the MRL must have competed in the State Cup competition during the past seasonal year and must participate in its respective State Cup competition during the current seasonal year."
In other words, once MRL finds out Valley isn't doing State Cup, yesterday's match will become a forfeit for Madison. That is probably one reason why MYSA hasn't posted the brackets yet.
5:04-I'm not sure I understand what you meant about why MYSA hasn't posted the brackets. MRL and MYSA are separate entities. Valley chose to not participate in State Cup (and MYSA Prmier League). They didn't apply to the State Cup and weren't present at the draw. I can't see MYSA calling all the U18B teams back for another draw because of that choice.
Why would MTA be jealous of Valley? Look at the many State Cup championships MTA has won the last 4-5 years and compare to the Valley results. Let's be realistic when making our posts.
Mark and parents: please get the bopys a chance to play soccer. These conflicts have always been there and can be worked around. I hope you have a really really good reason to chooose not to play STATE CUP.
US YOUTH SOCCER REGION II MIDWEST REGIONAL LEAGUE RULES Revised-Effective July 1, 2007 7 SECTION II. TEAM APPLICATION AND ADMISSION 2.01 Team Eligibility Any team affiliated with a US Youth Soccer State Association may request entry to the MRL. US Youth Soccer Region II based teams will have priority for participation in the MRL, as out-of- Region II teams may apply for participation in the MRL but shall not eligible for available Wild Card slots in the US Youth Soccer Region II Championships. 2.02 State Cup Requirement Any team making application to the MRL must have competed in the State Cup competition during the past seasonal year and must participate in its respective State Cup competition during the current seasonal year. 2.03 Good Standing All teams must be properly registered competitive teams that meet the requirements for participation and are in good standing with their respective member State Association.
How in the h-e-double hockey sticks did this team get placed into MRL by MYSA recommendation without having played State Cup last year?
The SSM girls U17 team was refused to be allowed by MYSA into MRL last year because of this rule. To be "allowed" to participate they had to play C3 to qualify for State Cup, so they could play MRL. EVEN THOUGH they had played MRL the season prior.
MYSA made the mistake once a year ago, and now they made the same mistake again? What a bunch of clowns!
I would say that the other MRL teams would have a great case if they wanted to protest the VLY participation. I hope someone finds out so that MYSA can again give the perception that they are incompetent to read, follow, and make decisions regarding rules.
12:20am-Although I agree that MYSA is basically incompetent, you do need to check your facts:Valley did play in State Cup last year and WON. So in that regard, they did meet the requirements when they applied for MRL in the fall. Of course MYSA would approve them. State Cup applications didn't have to be made until March 5th, so I assume MYSA figured all the MRL teams would fulfill the requirement by applying to MN State Cup....
12:20am-Although I agree that MYSA is basically incompetent, you do need to check your facts:Valley did play in State Cup last year and WON. So in that regard, they did meet the requirements when they applied for MRL in the fall. Of course MYSA would approve them. State Cup applications didn't have to be made until March 5th, so I assume MYSA figured all the MRL teams would fulfill the requirement by applying to MN State Cup....
If you are going to establish rules that include how you run your organization, please follow them or get rid of them. State Cup brackets should have been posted by now. Either post them, or explain on your website why they are not posted.
Again, don't have a kid in the age group, but I thought I had heard that MG & EM were both 94's. AR was credit with the goal an was a 94 but was not there due to an injury.
This could have been the exact same roster that they had in the summer which I think is totally fair. Until you take money and give players/parents the impression that the roster is completely open and there are tryouts. If your only looking for one or two players from very specific positions you should say so. That way kids who are Def, Forward or whatever know in advance they have no chance as that is not the roster spots they looking for.
I don't know if that happen, but am responding to the suggestion that the roster was already set before the try outs.
Mark Gormley is a 93 - a little one, but a 93. He was on the team at Regionals. Andrew Rorick is a 93, was on the team at Regionals - and scored the goal vs. PA West. He was not at home injured. Edossa Muhamed was the LONE 94 on the team, and yes - he scored the goal vs. Georgia.
Changes made from Regionals to Nationals were simple - centerback out for HS hoops, new centerback in. Forward out to injury, new forward in. Agreed it could have been posted to the parents that two spots were available. However, the kids paid for training - which they received...it wasn't a typical tryout with a bunch of guys with clipboards rating players.
MYSA has done it right here, there should be no more false stories about kids being an age they aren't - kids being on the team when they weren't, etc. Go back to bashing MYSA over Statue Cup and MRL rules and no brackets being posted - those are legitimate complaints.
22/3/10 12:27 PM I agree with you if what you have said MYSA has done it right. I truly believe they should go with the horses that got them there.
I disagree totally with your statement "However, the kids paid for training - which they received...it wasn't a typical tryout with a bunch of guys with clipboards rating players."
From what I understand this was $200 worth of training from which 18 were to be selected to represent MN ’93 ODP team. Most of these boys train 2-3 times a week, I suspect many parents would not have paid the $200 for training if they knew they did not have a shot at making the ODP team. Time is a resource and it is valuable. Two hundred dollars is a lot of money for training.
Year after year we hear parents/players and coaches complain that the ODP program isn’t getting the best players. This is an insult to the players that are showing up and has always frustrated me. I’ve heard for YEARS about the politics, favoritism and every other excuse as to why kids don’t make the team. However, if MYSA, ODP and ODP Coaches had a reputation of being honest with players and parents they may see more players participating. Stuff likes this only seems to give credence to those complaints. I am pretty sure not one parent or player would have complained if they had been told that the team was going with the horses that got them there but that they need a centerback and a forward.
Again, I don’t have a kid in the age group nor in the ODP program any longer, however I would like to see it get better. Especially, as we do not yet have an Academy program
i know of 3 kids from the 93 team who aren't planning on playing again. (1) their club teams and training are as good if not better, (2) they're traveling to college showcases and getting seen with their club teams, (3) our state will never be competitive with others that train and play together much much more than we do.
personally, my kid went to rockford twice and came back umimpressed.
3/22 3:00 said: I am pretty sure not one parent or player would have complained if they had been told that the team was going with the horses that got them there but that they need a centerback and a forward.
Did you hear anyone complain?
Holker was quite clear with the boys that the roster had not been officially picked, and would not be until very shortly before the tournament, but would be very very close to the Region II roster. The e-mails, and invitations I saw were also quite clear.
Secondly, no one at MYSA knew that the defender was not interested in traveling to AZ until he didn't show up at the training sessions. He is a terrific player and kid. Rumor has it he wanted to fulfill his committment to his school, coach, and teammates. Probably not in that order. That's classy.
The other spots that were filled, also could not have been advertised since the injuries occurred just prior to and during the preperations for AZ. The injury that happened before training started, was also hoping to recover in time to travel, but unfortunately for him wasn't ready.
Some of the boys who did not get picked to travel also showed their class and guts to show up. They also showed their desire to improve, probably hoping to make the squad this summer. I applaud their attitude.
I'm sorry I started this discussion, with my curiousity of why more players don't join ODP, it seems to have brought the same old uniformed whining and story telling.
23/3/10 4:06 PM You state that "Holker was quite clear with the boys that the roster had not been officially picked, and would not be until very shortly before the tournament, but would be very very close to the Region II roster." I highly doubt that he held a parent meeting, so I will assume he said it to the players only. So you’re saying that Holker insinuated to the boys that it wasn’t a tryout, when he used the catch phrase “officially”. Even thou it was called a try out on the MYSA web site? Don’t know if many 16-17 year old boys are sophisticated enough to understand what Holker was saying, without really saying it, was that the roster had been pick and he was just going thru the motions. Again, I don’t think anyone would have a problem with them bring the same roster to the tournament, if they were honest and clear. From your version of events honest and clear could not really be applied.
Your class and guts statement show a lack of understanding. You are assuming the boys did not show up were at home watching TV or playing X-box. Perhaps they could have been catching up on their homework, working a part time job or helping their families in other ways. They may have wanted to show their desire to improve and a may even hope to make the squad this summer as well. However, they could also want to graduate and still be able to qualify for NCAA Division I sports. We seem to have a problem getting public school kids that opportunity in soccer. It could be because club coaches and ODP coaches pressure kids to show up for practices instead of studying for a test or a writing paper.
I think the reason why more don’t participate in ODP is clear. When kids show up for one of six try outs session and make the team, it hurts the program. When kids don’t participate in try outs because of injuries but are suddenly ready at the last moment and make the team, it hurts the program. I have heard ODP coaches complain that they had to take regional players even though they were not showing up for tryouts, it hurt the program. When after the teams are pick only 5-8 players show up for the trainings it hurts the program. When they only training maybe six times before going down to Rockford it hurts he program. The reason MN players don’t show up for ODP is because the ODP program doesn’t value itself, why should they. Invest in the program, say what you’re going to do and do what you say. Even in this case with the trainings they did not do what they said they were going to do. You may not like the answer and it isn’t the first time I think you have heard it, but I think it closer to the truth than you believe.
Yes, it showed guts. Did it show more guts than the kid who was keeping his eye of the goal of graduating with good grades? Or picking up a couple of hours at work to pay for college? The fact that they did not make the ODP team would indicate that their chances of getting a scholarship to play soccer are somewhat limited.
I would say the players that didn't show up probably are getting good grades and will probably get promoted at work later in life because they can prioritize.
I don't think the ODP coaches are idiots, didn't mean to even imply that. The ODP program has value issues. The players don't value the program, the parents don't value the program, and the club coaches don't value the program. The ODP coaches don't value the program. The only people who are going to change that perception are the State, Regional and National ODP Coaches and Administrators. Minimum standards of attendance should be stated. Players that have been on National/Regional teams previous years, should not be given automatic roster spots on the following years State team. Once you make the team, mandatory training requirements should also be stated. Most Club Coaches have mandatory training requirements, why doesn’t ODP.
I respect Holker as a coach, and he has brought a lot of great things to the ODP program and MN soccer in general. I would easily name him among my top 5 coaches in the state. However, I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the ODP coaches express frustration over the fact that they have 5-8 kids showing up for training after the teams been picked. Respecting the program has to start from the top.
Just completed a bunch of recruiting questionnaires with my kid, who hopes to play in college. Every one asked for ODP experience. Bummer because he's a great player who chose to train with his high-level team instead of getting involved with such a politically-charged group.
My son was one of four keepers training with the state ODP team a few years ago that were clearly above all the others. All four keepers played on premier teams. One of the boys showed up when he felt like it and had an outwardly hostile attitude toward two of the three keepers. He didn't show attitude toward the top keeper because that keeper was clearly the best (and physically way ahead of the other three). The attitude kid didn't show any skills that would make him a special player unless you count his ability to use profanity and belittle as many other players as possible.
The kid with the attitude was selected to go to Rockford for the regional games because his parents had clout with MYSA and because he played for a certain club (not my opinion, but that of one of the other keeper's fathers and from a couple of other parents of players that went to Rockford). The kid started lipping off to the coaches during the first match in Rockford and never saw the field again.
The question is, why would the ODP coaches select a kid that is a cancer on the team when he doesn't have/show skills that make him an invaluable player? Politics or whatever else you want to call it (connections, favors, etc.).
I didn't mean that my son individually was above all the others; I meant that there was a group of four that were clearly separate from the others. I've been coaching competitive soccer for 11 years (but not the son in question) and am a licensed coach. It was clear based on physical development (the four were all 6+ feet tall and the rest were maybe 5'8" or less), agressiveness, tactical ability, and foot skills that the four were better keepers than the others.
That is beside the point. The point is that a kid that was a cancer in the ODP program was allowed to continue in the program. Why? Because he had connections. And this has nothing to do with sour grapes. It's just an observation provided in response to one poster on this blog that doesn't seem to think that politics, however you want to define it, isn't part of the ODP system.
I agree with 10:03 and others that politics does play a part in the ODP selection. Politics also plays a part in club team selection, in the work office, school teams, etc... It's unfortunate but true. However, IMO, these occurrences are few and far between. Nothing's perfect. I heard a quote the other day that made some sense - "don't let perfect get in the way of better". Made some sense to me.
The bigger question is what happens or what role will ODP take/evolve into if MN finally does get some clubs admitted on the boys side into the USSF Academy program as those players do not participate in ODP? This whole discussion could be a mute point in another year or two.
ODP is on the resume form since it is generally accepted nationwide as one way of filtering prospective student-athletes.
As to Academies, let's face the realities here folks: many D1 programs are going to concentrate their recruiting on Academy teams. For most schools, recruiting budgets are tight, so it only makes sense that they are going to concentrate their traveling to major tournaments where Academy teams are playing, or the tournament has a long established history of attracting top-level teams.
Smaller D1 schools, D2 and D3 schools will be looking at those Academy kids who aren't gobbled up by the primo D1 programs (or those who are going to have a tough time meeting eligibility requirements).
If the USSF Academy program fully matures (and that is an "if"), ODP will be relegated to second-class status. In some areas of the country, this is already happening.
And it does not help that ODP has to be managed by MYSA. John C. knows what he is doing and does a pretty good job of it, but the rest of that outfit.....
The biggest ODP political screw job was a young gal named Caroline Smith who was not chosen for the ODP regional team. Some Mia from Ill. was chosen ahead of her and amounted to nothing. Of course she was from ILL. CS only went on to be D1 soccer player of the year. ODP is over rated and over priced.Minn players are routinely passed by.
Anonymous said... Don't believe C Smith even made an ODP region team. So much for ODP. Of course she wasn't good enuff for da Gophas either. best player to come out of Sota ever!
17/3/10 8:03 PM
Anonymous said... i always love the Caroline Smith fan club posts that come completely unsolicted out of left field.........
Here is another ODP story, ODP coach told club coach that they really like this player, he takes charge of the backfield, makes correct choices and is not flustered when pressured. So when it came time to selection the player was passed over because of size. Now ODP is supposed to be about development so there was no forward thinking on their part. This was when he was u14, that player is now over 6 feet tall. This experience turned off that player to ODP, he continued to play on the top club for his age and helped them to many state cup campionship games and 1 title.
Watched U16 and U18 academy games in Chicago this weekend. Sockers and Scott Gallagher. Wow. Thank god they can't play State Cup. Now if we can just get rid of SSM.
I like how SSM gets to play in the U16 Boys bracket at State Cup, yet are registered with MYSA as a U18 team. If SSM wants to be an academy, then be an academy and quit using MYSA like a kept woman.
There have always been teams that register at a different age but play at there own age for state cup. Where have you been 10:01? Get over it they are not the only ones who have done that before! I hate SSM too but that is a ridiculous thing to say.
No, 11:16, it's not ridiculous. I was pointing out that as one example of how MYSA just does what it wants do, altering rules when it wants so, but then drops the hammer on any clubs that ask for leniency on much more minor issues. The fact that it's been going on for years doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. If a player registers to play with a club at U18, he can't go play with a team at U16 even if he's truly U16. That should apply across the board. If a team (from SSM or anywhere else) wants the tougher competition of playing up two years, then play up all the time.
You see, this is what you are all about, win win win..what ever happened to development??
Anyone notice the Dallas Cup scores today?? SSM 18s playing U19, won 5-1, SSM 17s got beat 0-1 by IMG, 16s won 1-0 v Gadalajala
WoW, SSM 18s playing U19 at THE biggest youth tournament in the US for boys, they should not be allowed to play U18 State Cup in MN. NOT! Congrates to the SSM teams. I think just being able to play at this tournament means that they are a real academy. SSM has a very good record at the past few Dallas Cups.
I don't understand why everyone complains right now about SSM being in MN State Cup...what they won 1 of the 3 age groups they entered last year. Wow we should all be so scared right now.
I don't know about anyone else, but I care about SSM being in the State Cup not because of winning, but because it takes away a spot for another team (or requires teams participate in a play-in game).
10:01 and 12:39, if you had a clue you'd be dangerous. The reason behind a u16 team playing at u18 is due to CC's forcing a rule through MYSA not allowing proper placement in premier or even C1 for new teams. Unless you were already a team that earned C1 or premier status you cannot join, even if you will destroy other teams. That rule was brought by everyone but the SSM and MTA/Bangu clubs. In fact, I would bet most competitive clubs now do not like the rule they forced-ask SCV and many others.
By the way, State Cup has to follow USYouth soccer rules, not MYSA.
SSM and MTA will both be in the USSF Academy next year. SSM and MTA older boys and girls will not be playing in State Cup in the next year or two. Its a done deal on USSF, announcement coming soon.
MN State Cup can have differnt rules. They can be more restrictive on them. As pointed out at the AGM last Nov, when Tom wanted to create a MYSA rule on admitiance to state cup that was more restrictive.
That is why it Tom seems to make up rules as each year goes.
State Cup brackets anyone? MRL has started as well. Big weekend out in Lakeland April 14-16.
17s State Cup brackets look competitive, with Shattuck drawing Bloomington, MTA white and Blue drawing each other, and EP, Edina, Blackhawks and SCV in the other. Feel bad for PSA, finishing 4th last year but getting a play-in against a decent Champlin team just to fit into the Shattuck bracket.
I know the SSM kool aid likes to think that MN is so-o-o lucky to have their program involved as it aids MN Soccer development. But all I've seen them do is make soccer an exclusive sport. Sorry, making parents spend more money on soccer isn't development it's business. I hope the rich kids continue to get their butts kicked at State Cup, just to show the rest of US Soccer you don't have to have parents with six figured incomes to be good soccer players.
As another poster stated, once they are in the USSF Academy system (if selected), then you can start bitching about the fact that they exist there. SSM is now in the role that Bangu used to fill. Everyone needs someone to beat up on since it is sooo Minnesotan to be passive-aggressive.
I have a funny feeling that SSM isn't gonig to miss MYSA a whole lot either.
Yeah, maybe SSM can win something in the Academy system, because they sure can't win at State Cup. But that right it doesn't matter to the rich boys. They just play in State Cup for fun, because it doesn't matter. Yeah right. Tell me is SSM Kool aid taste like cherries?
MTA parents please stop using " Kool Aid" in reference to SSM. For years you have been drinking Kool Aid and never figured it out so please refrain from using that term.
Not sure if the post about MTA and SSM entering USSF next year is true. If so, SSM will be gone from MN soccer (State Cup and MYSA leagues), which is good for them and good for us, but MTA will likely still have a state presence, as they have multiple teams at each age group. So, their TOP teams won't be eligible for State Cup, but their second teams will. If I recall, quite a few of MTA's second teams were better than everyon else's first teams. And that ain't no April Foolin.
Is anyone ticked off that U17 boys play their first game at 6pm on what will probably be a Prom night for many players, and their third game at 8am on a Sunday that will likely be the morning after a Prom night for manhy players? Thank goodness they didn't schedule games during the SAT test on May 1.
Here goes: 13B: MTA/MUS/LKV/SCV. MTA/LKV. MTA. Comment: Group A is loaded. The championship will be played in that group. Too bad they don't seed at U13. 14B: MTE/MTA/MTW/MUS. MTE/MTW/ MTW. Comment: If you hate MTA, don't watch U14B. 15B: MTA/SCV/EDP/NSS. MTA/SCV. SCV. Comment: Picking SCV because MTA can't win everything, can they? 16B: MTA/SCV/PSA/MUS1(Wildcats). MTA/SCV. MTA. Comment: MTA is so good here. 17B: SSM/MTW/SCV/MTA. MTA/SSM. SSM. Comment: MTA blue is much improved, but SSM is so good here. 18B: WSD/BHK/SSM/SCV. SSM/BHK. SSM. Blackhawks are scary good, but SSM is more seasoned at this time of year. 19B: MTA. Comment: This is the only pick I'm certain of.
P.S. I'll add I'm not an MTA fan. But I learned a lesson when I picked Duke to lose in the first-round of March Madness: plug your nose and pick the team that will win.
1/4/10 4:02 PM you sound more informed than I, but I think you missed SSM at u16. Pretty good team, very physical. If they can get by a dirty PSA without too many retaliation cards, I would pick them to win their group. PSA will probably get the wildcard due to a soft grouping other than SSM.
Why wouldn't the #1 seed (MTA) get the play in team?? Odd.
It's been officially announced..... MTA & SSM into the USSF Academy program. 2010 will be their last year for state cup since they will now work off of a calendar year and not the Aug-July "soccer" year.
I enjoy reading the names on those Top 100 lists and seeing a majority of the names likely being non-white names. It goes to show, it's all in the family and the culture.
Since I've pretty much been right about everything in the last 365 days:
U13: MTA U14: MTA U15: MTA U16: MTA U17: MTA U18: Blackhawks U19: MTA
Hey 1/4/10 4:54 PM, no kid in either of those teams. I've seen both of them play. It's not a rip to say SSM is physical, more of our MN teams need to find physical to compete out of state. But dirty is a whole different story.
You obviously have not seen the PSA 16's (or for that matter the PSA 15's) in the last few years or heard any of the stories about recent scrimmages. I doubt that even the majority of the parents on those teams would disagree that they have too many players who would be categorized as talented athletes but dirty.
actually, you can have the 17s, and 18s (juniors and seniors) play on saturdays and Sundays at 8am, 9am, 10am, 11am, noon, 1pm, 2pm, 3pm or even 4pm. that ought to avoid just about every prom in the state.
MTA will to continue compete at State Cup in all age groups except those involved in the Academy. They could even have their second teams compete at U16 & U18 if they want.
Like other USSF academy clubs, MTA will continue to field second teams at 15, 16, 17, 18 and compete in State Cup, MRL, and other top level tournaments.
Now that MTA has USSF Academy for the Boys, Elite National League for the Girls, MTA will definitely attract top boys and girls in MN. Both of these programs for boys and girls attract top college coaches at their games. Thus, Minnesota dads and moms, regardless which CC teams your boy or girl is playing, if you want your kid to be scouted by top schools, and if they are good, they will be playing for MTA. Other dads and moms whom their boy or girl could not make the cut to be a part of MTA will continue to bitch and swear at MTA until the end of time because their kid is not good enough to play at top level.
Here come the sales pitches from MTA. New and improved snake oil.
10:08, they bitch and swear because MTA usually knows which kids aren't going to make a top team early on, but they keep taking the parent's money anyway.
Don't think they really need to have much of a sales pitch any more. Just hang out the sign that says: ECNL - highest level of competition and exposure for girls USSF DAP - highest level of competition and exposure for boys
8:43 - quick question, does MTA "take the parents money" or do the parents "give MTA the money"?
I think it is great that everyone is happy to have MTA and SSM join the USDA program so that other will have better "chances at State Cup".
The hilarious part is that those teams who are crying for an easier path to own a State Cup patch will STILL get beaten by the MTA B teams. You are no closer to a patch than you have ever been- ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
The real funny thing is that you would spend that kind of money for your kid to play on a white team and maybe play division 2 or 3. Now thats funny!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha or the fact that you actually believe it when they tell you your kid has talent. News flash: That's how they separate you from your money. 99.9 % of the time they are just blowing smoke up your tailpipe.
1:27 is spot on. Yep, they take your money and keep telling you how wonderful your kid is, blah, blah, blah.
Until he or she is cut.
Seen it too many times over the years and it will only get worse with the USDA. So 9:27, yes, they do take the money because they blow smoke up the parent's tailpipes early and often.
To my knowledge all clubs who belong to USSF Academy and ECNL have 2nd and even 3rd teams. These are usually the tops clubs in a particular metro area and attract the top coaches, the top talent and players serious about improving their skills. Are all the top clubs across the USA blowing smoke up everyone's "tailpipe"? Or is it just MTA that does that?
650: Please try to follow. Most large clubs not affilated with a community need to have 2nd and 3rd teams to afford the salaries of their directors. Without those teams they wouldn't have enough money to pay themselves. So yes I think all top clubs blow smoke to get parents of 2nd and 3rd teamers to buy into their program. If they didn't blow smoke most people probably would buy into their program at that level. I orginally commeted because of 929's arrogant comment. If everything you said is true then why didn't they sweep every age group last year. I honestly believe that with the amount of kids they get and the quality of some that there shouldn't be an age group that they don't win and in my opinion the games shouldn't be close, but they don't come close to wining them all and a lot of games are close which leads me to believe that maybe their coaches aren't all what they claim to be.
lol 1:38, you took 9:29's bait and swallowed hook, line and sinker (statements like that one should not even be acknowledged). FYI - ALL club soccer is a business (at least that's my belief until I come across the club that is 100% volunteer directors, coaches, administrators, etc...).
Talented but dirty? it doesn't go together. Your comments shows your true feelings towards those particular african players. They are talented and learning how to play organized soccer in a new environment.
2:32 I'm not going to say to which club I belong, but we are COMPLETELY volunteer. Not a single board member is paid. Nor do we have a coaching director, administrators, or any paid staff. And you know what, we have had and continue to have C1 and premier teams.
And, as for kids flocking to MTA to get the best chance to play at an elite level, you're assuming parents will want to commute to get their kids to 3-4 practices a week and pay a minimum of three times what other clubs charge for that opportunity.
I've got nothing against MTA, but that system just doesn't work for 3 out of 4 families in MN.
Wow - a FREE soccer club. Nothing to pay for except field/dome time and tournament fees. Like 4:22 & 4:38, I'd love to know the name of the club. Hats off to all the coaches spending 8-10 hours per week for free plus volunteering their time all weekends at tournaments (plus the costs of travel/hotels/food, etc...).
2:32 I agree with you that MTA is not for most MN families, but would go much further to say that it is not for 99 out of 100 families in MN. I have a son playing for MTA and a son playing for our CC club. My MTA son wanted to play on a team that is competitive regionally because he was experiencing that through ODP. (And he didn't get on an ODP team through all the politics some complain of -- nobody knew him before he tried out and made the team).
So he moved from his C1 team to MTA. Our CC DOC encouraged it, because it was BEST FOR THE PLAYER AND HIS DEVELOPMENT. It would open up another spot on the C1 team at the CC, and that's a good thing, right? MTA (at least the MTA elite program) is clearly a program for players who are seeking to play good teams outside MN, those who are seeking to play regionally and be in a better position to PROMOTE THEMSELVES for college play (which is the only way to get a coach interested, by the way). But even that -- getting coaches to watch regional games that are not development academy games -- was getting increasingly more difficult. So MTA's acceptance to the DA will be great for top level MN players.
MTA is clearly more $$ (of which none will be returned via a scholarship -- anyone with that notion will be very dissapointed) -- but also much more club out-of-pocket expense for winter dome time, etc. Bottom line -- it is expensive but money well spent to keep my son centered in a productive activity in which he has gained lots of self-confidence. So to all those who want to beat on MTA, please leave these kids alone. They are just kids trying to excel at a sport they love.
4:41 -- I'm 5:37. amd have been involved in CC soccer for 10 years and MTA for 2. Just one perspective, but on the obnoxious scale the MTA parents are pretty low. Most of them have been pretty involved as coaches, managers or CC board memmbers (and several I know are still on their CC club board, and one is president of his local CC). That's not surprising of course -- their kids were showing ability at the game and they were supporting it. The most obnoxious parents I've seen are those at the CC's who don't follow the game as well, but think their lad is just as good as the others but not getting a fair chance. I've sat on MTA sidelines for a few years, and it's the quietest group of parents I've ever been around.
1124, parents are all the same no matter what club you play for. Now arrogance is another story with MTA parents taking the cake as evident by your comments.
Hey 5/4/10 3:28 PM You're right, talented and dirty don't go together because dirty always outweighs the talent.
You have no idea what ethnic background I am, so don't pull that bull race card crap. Nobody cares what background they have, they are dirty, go watch a game, a scrimmage or even show up after either of these and watch the players.
Sounds like you know who the main culprits are, you pointed them out. I must not be exagerating.
It has nothing to do with race, color or anything else but poor temper control. By the way, the rest of the team and some of the coaches are nearly as bad.
Get it out of your system while you can because once the USSF Academy program kicks in it will be a lot harder to rip into SSM & MTA. No more "who's going to win State Cup", "ODP politics", "they win because they recruit", etc.... Folks will just have to digger harder - but unfortunately, I'm sure they will.
As a former player for both, here is my perspective:
CC Parents: Far more obnoxious, less arrogant. Select Club Parents: Some arrogance, far less obnoxious.
In general, the better the team, the quieter the parents. Obviously, some strange outliers exist.
I love when parents say, "The sport they love." That's such crap. If these kids truly "loved" the game, we'd have a lot more players continuing to play after U17 and 12th Grade.
9:59 -- I was talking about the select team players when I unfortunately gushed about "the sport they love." I agree that statement was sentimental and humbly retract it. Suffice it to say that my son and his teammates I know well are very happy (in love? maybe no) with the game and its a huge and positive part of their life. And my bet is that all of them continuing playing into adulthood, if not in college. Most select players keep going, do you disagree?
I personally think if you took the top 15 players at this year's U18, they might be the best age group MN has ever seen. I think you could probably say the same thing about the top 30 players too.
In a preview of next year's academy clubs, both 16 and 17 boys will have Shattuck and MTA Blue in the finals. When they leave the best of the rest will fight it out in a weakened field.
Having SSM and MTA in the USSF Academy will be good for soccer in Minnesota. What this will do is allow 2 teams full of players (36 more players)to play at the premier or Midwest league level exposing those players to a more competitive playing environment which will raise their ability level. Then the same will happen with 2 more teams who get to move up to C1 etc... This is the best thing to happen to Minnesota soccer in a long time.
It's just too bad we won't be able to see the direct results of those improvements within MN in a Golden Gopher Men's team.
I've always said the Gophers could field a strong team with a MN-based nucleus. These improvements at the youth level would likely make us even stronger.
1971 birth year is the best year. Sanneh, M. Lagos, Magee, Gramenz. All played professionally. One in the WC, one in the Olympics. The team won a National Championship on the boys side too. Magee had a stint in the MLS, and Gramenz was a main stay on a solid Thunder team. Any other good players from 1971 year? What other years produced top players.
Please, please, please let not go there. You'll only bring out the CRAZIES! 12/4/10 2:59 PM DM has been carrying on about that age group for ever. I've seen them on the field many, many times. They are probably the most over hyped age group to come along in a while. Besides, I think you are correct in subtlety pointing out that at this point they really have not done ANYTHING. Give them a few years and we will see. However right now, they just a bunch of kids with over involved parents.
I think the '71 group is easily the best Top 5 collection MN has had...Sanneh alone could carry any age group.
However, if you took the true top 15 from the '92s (which has never been done), that group would have been outstanding. As mentioned, some over-involved parents and some idiot coaches and some idiot players kind of messed up that chance.
Coulda, woulda, shoulda DM. We will never know. Your trifecta of over-involved parents and idiot coaches and players kinda puts the kibosh on your whole premise now, doesn't it?
lol - let's all go back in time to almost 40 years ago and start making comparisons. the youth/club soccer landscape is entirely different now. not saying they weren't all quality players, but those comparisons make for interesting blog fodder, but not much else. i bet if all the players mentioned were now 12 years old and starting the state/youth/regional/national ID process there would be a completely different outcome.
9:27 - couldn't agree more. too many "wanna be" piano players and not enough piano movers..... or just as accurately too many parents who wanted their little Donovan's to be piano players....
Regardless of how many national championships were won or what was accomplished post-MYSA, I still:
"...think if you took the top 15 players at '92, they might be the best age group MN has ever seen."
The only group that may be better is '71 and you can't really argue against that. I played in what I would consider a top 5 group, yet I'm not too stubborn or blind to realize the depth of talent at '92.
I'm amused by people who bash this opinion. We should celebrate and be proud of talented groups.
71 has a lot of other players that were really good too. Matt Holmes who played for the Thunder and played at WI. Aaron Nelson who played at UW Milwaukee, Andy Beaton who is now a HS Principal and played at Armstrong and MAC, Mark Lebere who played professionally in CO. Was Abboud a 71?
Wow people. Blogs are fun places to debate things like which class is the best. Tell us why and not rip on people. Dont hide behind your computer and make comments that no person cares to read. Tell me why 92 class is so good, i would like to learn more.
36 players 11 starters 3 subs 4 bench riders what do the other 18 do besides practice & pay or do they how much does it cost is it a sliding scale like it is now is there some website that explains it all lc
lc, I assume you are asking about US development academy teams??
Go to USSOCCER website it has some info. So far, I have heard that each player on the roster is required to start 25% of the scheduled games (approximately 30 per year). Fees are subsidized by USSOCCER. Most people are guessing that minimal fees are incurred by the players, but not much info yet. USSOCCER says $5 per player and administrative fees to the club. I would guess uniforms, maybe dome and field fees, probably some travel- not sure.
I think it's quite clear the '71s are the best group considering they won our only national championship and considering what they did post-MYSA.
I think the '92s are 2nd best because:
- in there younger years, PSA Super Eagles were a regional power for a couple years. - they've had more ODP Regional selections throughout the years than any group I can remember. - they've had ODP National presence with that kid nobody ever remembers, A. Tadese I think. - they have regional success at the club level from various teams in MRL. - they have more depth with numerous strong club teams than I believe MN has ever seen. I would say this is the strongest argument for the 92s being overall the strongest.
If you combined the 2-3 best MN players from SCV, VLY, SSM, MTA, ARS, BHK, that group would be pretty darn talented and there would be a lot of pretty darn good players left off.
As 8:02 says, somebody will rip this apart without providing their own analysis supporting a stronger group. Somebody will say ODP is meaningless. Somebody will say State Cup doesn't mean anything. Somebody will say MRL isn't 2nd tier. Blah blah blah. It's the 2nd best group MN has seen.
Too bad they are not following the rules because they are a good team: "Furthermore in regards to REgion II wild card slots, rule 5.01 says,"in each age group, two Wild Card slots to the US Youth Soccer Region II Championships may be awarded to MRL Premier Division teams. In order to be eligible for a Wild Card slot, the following conditions must be met: (a) The team must participate in their State Association State Cup competition for the US Youth Soccer National Championship Series during the current seasonal year..."
DM- I guess I've never been that impressed with the '92. Sorry. They always had alot of parents (an others with vested interest)carrying on about how good they are. Reality is they just didn't step up to the plate when it counted. (U16's or U17's)
What really makes me wonder is why you feel the need to carry on and on about it. At this point, who cares. These boys need to have the adults stop spinning them and let the boys prove themselves on the field.
Unless your A. Tadese or his "agent" who cares, you can't claim their anything at this point other than should haves, could haves.
Say what you want about Valley, they are putting up the numbers and it would be nice to have a MN team win that premier MRL division. If they do go on to win it ,it's a shame that they won't be able to be the wildcard to regionals because they aren't playing State Cup. It's a shame to think they won't be competing and yet there are C1 teams in it (PRL, CRA, WYZ) in it. BTW, I am from an opposing team who thinks Mark is a decent guy...With their successes, I guess their kids do have something to be cocky about (although I prefer to see kids be humble...) The key is to understand their missile launching style---I bet they caught the other MRL teams off guard and then it was too late for the opposition to catch up.
If the other teams know VYL did not enter state then the game is great scimmage for them and they can game time for some of their players. My guess is they do.. they the results are not true.
Tsnami Gold from '83s was a good team. Sasha is probably one of the 10 best MN players ever and one of the best goalscoreres MN has ever had. They also had the rare occurrence of having a great coach.
However, talk about underachieving. I might be wrong, but that team went to regionals multiple times and I don't think they ever advanced out of group play. Maybe once, but I don't think so. I'd say they're a top 10 group and just like a lot of the groups between '75s - '85s.
Also, the 83 Tsunami Gold was pretty much an 83 select team. With the 92s, all the players are scattered around 8 teams. I'd say the 92 have done well considering that.
In terms of stepping up to the plate, I'd say MN coaches and admins didn't step up to the plate to consolidate talent in the 92s.
1. 1971s 2. 1992s 3. I think you could argue a lot of groups to be in this spot. I think one of the current MYSA groups will soon claim this spot, or higher.
DM (not a parent. not a coach. not an agent. just an observer.)
After the 92s, I think it was the 78s that have had the most success regionally. I think they advanced once or twice. They too had a number of players that played at top universities (Maryland, Dartmouth, Boston, Marquette).
Considering MN top 10 players, it's interesting to note that many our best players (Lagos, Cullen, Gotmanonov, Bunbury) all had fathers that coached or were very involved.
As I've said before on here, it's all in the family and in the culture. That's why the 92s, for example, are dominated by minority players.
Valley is not forfieting their games for MRL, those results are very legit. They may not be allowed to go to regionals if they finish high enough but they are still playing the games and the results are real. If you have a son in that age group, which I do not thankfully, I would count yourselves as lucky that they are not playing state cup as they have already beaten two out of four regional semifinalists from last year, including the champions.
DM - your comment "In terms of stepping up to the plate, I'd say MN coaches and admins didn't step up to the plate to consolidate talent in the 92s" is a fair assessment, but as we all know it's the parents at that age group who controlled all the player movement.
1:11, When I said "coaches," that was supposed to imply "parents" because of a few key "parent-coaches" in that group that easily could have made something happen if they had looked and even been aware of the bigger picture.
you don't think they were aware of the bigger picture? the only picture most of them cared about watching out for their own kid. quick question for everyone......why are parent-coaches so much more prevalent on the boys side than on the girls side? you rarely ever see this scenario with the girls.
Valley United is one of the problems within the system. Apple Valley cares more about winning high school championships than they do about winning national championships or anything else. Hence, they frown upon their players leaving Valley United. It has always been this way.
They even brainwash their kids into this thought process by having them wear those t-shirts that say "VALLEY RULES" on them.
With Valley being such a hotbed for talent for so long in MN, it messes things up because they never contribute to the greater cause as they isolate their talent from the rest of the state.
What is strange is how Valley players never realize this until after they graduate (when they are removed from the "Valley Rules" spell). Then they realize that winning a high school championship isn't all that cool but winning a national championship would be outstanding.
Believe me winning a state championship is cool, and you would know if you had done it, good for those guys and sticking together to accomplish that
And why would those kids leave what they had, they were by far the best team when they were younger, U12 and under, it was that no one else ever came to valley until some guys figured it out later and now they again are the best team
12:53 FYI - Teams at U18 are not the same teams with their accomplishments at U17. Players are changing teams big time at U18. So to say AV beat team with regional semi-finalist and champions means nothing.
Ok, DM just because you post and post and post doesn't make it so. The '92 can't be considered ANYTHING at this point. They haven't done ANYTHING. Perhaps if a few get significant playing time in quality D1 programs you can start to talk. Perhaps if a few get some professional opportunities you can talk. Until then they been nothing.
Something else to think about. This past high school season was the WORSE I've ever seen! Valley was a quality high school team, but after that their wasn't much. If the '92 had so much more talent we should have seen alot better high school soccer. However, I think most if not all would agree, overall this was the worse boys high school soccer season I have seen.
In summary, you can talk about the '92 in 2015 or 2017. The '78 were decent, the '88 show some promise. Top ten, I think we struggle for a top three.
When I talk about top classes, I prefer to think about what they did in MYSA. After they graduate from MYSA is a different discussion. I prefer to think about it in terms of what they did as Minnesotans with Minnesota coaches, etc.
I'd say the 92s have had top 3 regional success and have placed more players in the ODP regional pool over the years collectively than any other age group.
Just going by individual talent, I think 92s are top 2.
Can somebody list a COMPLETE and ACCURATE list of all the MN Boys teams that have advanced at regionals? It's probably under 10 teams. I think that, along with ODP accomplishments, are the two most telling criteria.
DM your thinking is flawed. Age groups at the younger ages can and are dominated often by single "early maturing" player. We have all seen it happen over and over at State Cup. So your advancing at regionals criteria should be limited to the age groups of U16 and up. When the game is about something other than size an speed of one individual player.
Limiting the regional advancement to U16 and up and adding some of the ODP stuff, here how I think they should be ranked. 1. '71 2. '89 (SSM had a team take 2nd in Nationals with MN boys on the team) 3. '78 4. '93 (Advanced to the final 4 at ODP camp this year) 5-6 '88 & '92
Your comment about '92 being dominated by the minority players makes me question your judgements. You say you're not a coach or a parent, but you obviously have an agenda.
11:43, Valid point about my flawed analysis and I agree with your U16 and up criteria.
I think your opinion is flawed too. It looks to me like you only know things about more recent history seeing as though you have 88, 89, 92 and 93 in your top 6 (along with the obvious 71 and with 78, which I previously listed).
To think that between 79 and 87 there weren't any good groups is probably incorrect.
592 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 592 of 592U17 Boys Brackets
A: Shattuck, Northern Lights, Bloomington, PSA/Champlin.
B: MTA White, MTA Blue, North Metro, Centennial/Three Rivers.
C: St. Croix, Blackhawks, Edina, Eden Prairie.
Shattuck has a free pass in A. MTA White and Blue will battle in B. St. Croix has the edge in C.
It would be interested to see if any of the other regions took under age kids. It seems a strange thing to do, given the drastic difference in physical development. Haven't seen any of the players, just kind of wondering if this is comman.
What are the brackets for the rest of the boys?
10:03 must be a coach or have a kid playing. The brackets aren't up on mnyouthsoccer yet. The draw was this weekend though so I would expect them up this week for sure.
U18B:
Group A:
AFC
WSD
MTA
BHK
Group B:
SCV
SSM
CRA
Play in winner (WYA vs. PRL)
10 03 is a coach, we know this.
U18 will be BHK, AFC, SSM, SCV advancing from group play. Where is VLY??? I have heard of good results against teams over the winter from talking with people and am surprised they aren't listed. Any insider info?
Didn't VLY win the bracket that age group last year?
It would be kind of strange if they were not in the State Cup. However they have been very sucessful between High School and Club and perhaps feel they don't need to compete in State Cup.
4:11 and 5:56-interesting...MRL rule 2.02 states:
"Any team making application to the MRL must have competed in the State Cup competition
during the past seasonal year and must participate in its respective State Cup competition
during the current seasonal year."
Furthermore in regards to REgion II wild card slots, rule 5.01 says,"in each age group, two Wild Card slots to the US Youth Soccer Region II Championships may
be awarded to MRL Premier Division teams. In order to be eligible for a Wild Card slot, the
following conditions must be met:
(a) The team must participate in their State Association State Cup competition for the US
Youth Soccer National Championship Series during the current seasonal year..."
11:53 I think it is a regular occurrence to take younger kids to the regional and national ODP tournaments (but not a lot of them). The younger guys that were invited all looked strong enough to compete, one has been playing with the region II team consistently (and plays against older players in club), but was hurt and couldn't attend the AZ tournament. Oddly enough, he was given credit for the first goal (roster issue?) on the US Youth Soccer website (see the video highlights).
I don't think many younger guys would get selected if more of the true elite players in MN were asked to tryout. Is it the money that keeps some of these kids away? It just never looks like all the best are available.
All in all, 2-1 to the eventual champions and 4th in the nation isn't too bad.
Holker and JT did a nice job with the limited time they had with this group. The guys didn't seem to gel like they did at Region II. There were a couple differences in the roster, but just didn't seem like they had enough time to become a team again. But, competing against the top 3 in the country sometimes makes you look worse than you really are.
I was disappointed to see the President and Executive Director at the tournament but not at the ceremonies after the tournament and/or congratulating their team for competing??
Hey State Cup is coming! Let's all try to be proud of our kids teams but civil too!
I hear the USSF Academy is visiting at SSM today. I heard they visited the MTA club yesterday.
Can anyone confirm?
9:30 am
Don't have a kid in the age group or program now. So, I don't have agenda per say.
What keeping the best players from showing up? When I looked at the roster it seemed like there were 3-4 underage players. Which seems like a lot. Was this all that showed up for the try outs? Did we scramble to get enough players and in the end had to take underage kids to get a full roster? If so, that so sad. That we can't even get enough interest from our players to attend a event that will have college coaches all over them to attend a try out. Would kind of show how badly we have failed to instill any passion for the game from our players.
Lot's of kids at the tryouts, just some of the younger kids are very good. The team was very close to the original that played at Region II, minus an injury, and a high school basketball player.
My point was that there are some really good players that don't show up. Not sure why. It looks like it happens at most of the age groups, you could be right that they possibly don't want to give up that much time...
I can confirm that the USSF Academy was on the SSM campus today. I heard that he had visited a club in the Twin Cities yesterday. I would assume it would have been MTA. There are no other clubs in the state that would make sense to be in the Academy.
Some families have financial concerns.
The more things change the more they stay the same. There is MTA and then there is everybody else.
A few years back I was on a local CC board and there was heated discussion about allowing a coach to take a U13 year old girl on a boys team. She was very good, an asset to the team. The board allowed it. In the next two following years, the numbers of boys trying out declined significantly. In the end the young girl went on to play hockey with her girl friends and the boys team folded due to a lack of interest.
I often wonder if the boys stopped going to try outs and competiting for that top team because they didn't want the razzling they would get when they were beat out by a girl. I also wonder if the girl would have continued to play soccer if she had made connections with other girls playing soccer.
As I recall this I am wondering if players stop trying out for ODP teams because they don't want to chance being edge out by under age player? I don't know, like I said I don't even know the age group. But I wonder if it is counter productive to take so many underage kids on the team?
10:03 (me) is not a coach. I was just there and asked around.
Politics and favortism keeps players from showing up!
3/18 7:39 am You hit it right on the head, there have been many very talented players passed over because of politics and favortism, ODP in Minneosta has been nothing but a farce for many years. ODP coaches should not be club or CC coaches but independent, then you would have a better selection process not tied to politics
7:44- What you describe does not only take place in MN. It is the scourge of ODP Nationwide.
ODP is a scouting combine
20 bucks a session is fair
several hundred for r2 is a waste
ODP & all-stars every friday
for those who pay
lc
Any insights as to why MYSA hasn't posted State Cup brackets yet?
Nope, but within 48 hours MYSA will have not followed another of its own directives. They are supposed to have the results out within one week, by their own documentation. What would happen if a club decided not to follow the timeline and not submit the paperwork by a deadline?
A club/team is always told NO when they miss a deadline. Look at NSC last year with USA Cup or a team that missed signing up for the summer state tournament.
Heard rumor that there is a team protesting its age group brackets -
10:28am--this is interesting, I wonder why wouldn't a team "protest" right when the draw was being held on Saturday? I mean really, a team either applies or doesnt' and either shows up at the draw or doesn't..
There must be something more to this as it's not rocket science?
I think there was an issue for U16 girls. They skipped the draw and went from U17B to U16B.
Hey. This is Moron Rocket Science 101! LMAO
There was only one '94 on the roster for the '93 ODP Championships - Edossa Muhamed. He ended up scoring the goal against Georgia in the semifinal game. All others were '93s and 16-of-18 players from the summer Regional Championships were on this roster. One was out due to injury and the other due to a high school basketball conflict as stated earlier. This is not much of a story for discussion about politics and favoritism, etc.
U-18 MRL premier game today played at shattuck
Valley United - 4
Madison 56ers - 1
thank you valley parent, we missed you!
How does your state cup bracket look ?
Obviously it was their choice not to participate in state cup, I think they are doing OK if they are winning MRL premier games by 3 goals, are we a little jealous MTA parent?
Hi 12:29. You have overlooked one itsy-bitsy detail about Valley not doing State Cup and MRL:
MRL rule 2.02 states:
"Any team making application to the MRL must have competed in the State Cup competition
during the past seasonal year and must participate in its respective State Cup competition
during the current seasonal year."
In other words, once MRL finds out Valley isn't doing State Cup, yesterday's match will become a forfeit for Madison. That is probably one reason why MYSA hasn't posted the brackets yet.
5:04-I'm not sure I understand what you meant about why MYSA hasn't posted the brackets. MRL and MYSA are separate entities. Valley chose to not participate in State Cup (and MYSA Prmier League). They didn't apply to the State Cup and weren't present at the draw. I can't see MYSA calling all the U18B teams back for another draw because of that choice.
Why would MTA be jealous of Valley?
Look at the many State Cup championships MTA has won the last 4-5 years and compare to the Valley results.
Let's be realistic when making our posts.
Mark and parents: please get the bopys a chance to play soccer. These conflicts have always been there and can be worked around. I hope you have a really really good reason to chooose not to play STATE CUP.
US YOUTH SOCCER REGION II
MIDWEST REGIONAL LEAGUE RULES
Revised-Effective July 1, 2007 7
SECTION II. TEAM APPLICATION AND ADMISSION
2.01 Team Eligibility
Any team affiliated with a US Youth Soccer State Association may request entry to the MRL.
US Youth Soccer Region II based teams will have priority for participation in the MRL, as out-of-
Region II teams may apply for participation in the MRL but shall not eligible for available Wild
Card slots in the US Youth Soccer Region II Championships.
2.02 State Cup Requirement
Any team making application to the MRL must have competed in the State Cup competition
during the past seasonal year and must participate in its respective State Cup competition
during the current seasonal year.
2.03 Good Standing
All teams must be properly registered competitive teams that meet the requirements for
participation and are in good standing with their respective member State Association.
How in the h-e-double hockey sticks did this team get placed into MRL by MYSA recommendation without having played State Cup last year?
The SSM girls U17 team was refused to be allowed by MYSA into MRL last year because of this rule. To be "allowed" to participate they had to play C3 to qualify for State Cup, so they could play MRL. EVEN THOUGH they had played MRL the season prior.
MYSA made the mistake once a year ago, and now they made the same mistake again? What a bunch of clowns!
I would say that the other MRL teams would have a great case if they wanted to protest the VLY participation. I hope someone finds out so that MYSA can again give the perception that they are incompetent to read, follow, and make decisions regarding rules.
12:20am-Although I agree that MYSA is basically incompetent, you do need to check your facts:Valley did play in State Cup last year and WON. So in that regard, they did meet the requirements when they applied for MRL in the fall. Of course MYSA would approve them. State Cup applications didn't have to be made until March 5th, so I assume MYSA figured all the MRL teams would fulfill the requirement by applying to MN State Cup....
12:20am-Although I agree that MYSA is basically incompetent, you do need to check your facts:Valley did play in State Cup last year and WON. So in that regard, they did meet the requirements when they applied for MRL in the fall. Of course MYSA would approve them. State Cup applications didn't have to be made until March 5th, so I assume MYSA figured all the MRL teams would fulfill the requirement by applying to MN State Cup....
Dear MYSA:
If you are going to establish rules that include how you run your organization, please follow them or get rid of them. State Cup brackets should have been posted by now. Either post them, or explain on your website why they are not posted.
Thank you.
20/3/10 11:14 AM
Again, don't have a kid in the age group, but I thought I had heard that MG & EM were both 94's. AR was credit with the goal an was a 94 but was not there due to an injury.
This could have been the exact same roster that they had in the summer which I think is totally fair. Until you take money and give players/parents the impression that the roster is completely open and there are tryouts. If your only looking for one or two players from very specific positions you should say so. That way kids who are Def, Forward or whatever know in advance they have no chance as that is not the roster spots they looking for.
I don't know if that happen, but am responding to the suggestion that the roster was already set before the try outs.
9:35 -
Mark Gormley is a 93 - a little one, but a 93. He was on the team at Regionals. Andrew Rorick is a 93, was on the team at Regionals - and scored the goal vs. PA West. He was not at home injured. Edossa Muhamed was the LONE 94 on the team, and yes - he scored the goal vs. Georgia.
Changes made from Regionals to Nationals were simple - centerback out for HS hoops, new centerback in. Forward out to injury, new forward in. Agreed it could have been posted to the parents that two spots were available. However, the kids paid for training - which they received...it wasn't a typical tryout with a bunch of guys with clipboards rating players.
MYSA has done it right here, there should be no more false stories about kids being an age they aren't - kids being on the team when they weren't, etc. Go back to bashing MYSA over Statue Cup and MRL rules and no brackets being posted - those are legitimate complaints.
MYSA rules are a lot like the "Pirates Code" in the movie Pirates of the Caribbean. They're not necessarily "rules", but more like "guidelines".......
22/3/10 12:27 PM
I agree with you if what you have said MYSA has done it right. I truly believe they should go with the horses that got them there.
I disagree totally with your statement
"However, the kids paid for training - which they received...it wasn't a typical tryout with a bunch of guys with clipboards rating players."
From what I understand this was $200 worth of training from which 18 were to be selected to represent MN ’93 ODP team. Most of these boys train 2-3 times a week, I suspect many parents would not have paid the $200 for training if they knew they did not have a shot at making the ODP team. Time is a resource and it is valuable. Two hundred dollars is a lot of money for training.
Year after year we hear parents/players and coaches complain that the ODP program isn’t getting the best players. This is an insult to the players that are showing up and has always frustrated me. I’ve heard for YEARS about the politics, favoritism and every other excuse as to why kids don’t make the team. However, if MYSA, ODP and ODP Coaches had a reputation of being honest with players and parents they may see more players participating. Stuff likes this only seems to give credence to those complaints. I am pretty sure not one parent or player would have complained if they had been told that the team was going with the horses that got them there but that they need a centerback and a forward.
Again, I don’t have a kid in the age group nor in the ODP program any longer, however I would like to see it get better. Especially, as we do not yet have an Academy program
i know of 3 kids from the 93 team who aren't planning on playing again. (1) their club teams and training are as good if not better, (2) they're traveling to college showcases and getting seen with their club teams, (3) our state will never be competitive with others that train and play together much much more than we do.
personally, my kid went to rockford twice and came back umimpressed.
You have to wonder about the selection process. Seems they load up with center mids and forwards and then have to figure out who can play in the back.
15 b
MTA Blue
PSA
NMT
VLY
SCV – P
BHK
WYZ
SCV – C1
NSSA
CDA
EDP
MTW
3/22 3:00 said: I am pretty sure not one parent or player would have complained if they had been told that the team was going with the horses that got them there but that they need a centerback and a forward.
Did you hear anyone complain?
Holker was quite clear with the boys that the roster had not been officially picked, and would not be until very shortly before the tournament, but would be very very close to the Region II roster. The e-mails, and invitations I saw were also quite clear.
Secondly, no one at MYSA knew that the defender was not interested in traveling to AZ until he didn't show up at the training sessions. He is a terrific player and kid. Rumor has it he wanted to fulfill his committment to his school, coach, and teammates. Probably not in that order. That's classy.
The other spots that were filled, also could not have been advertised since the injuries occurred just prior to and during the preperations for AZ. The injury that happened before training started, was also hoping to recover in time to travel, but unfortunately for him wasn't ready.
Some of the boys who did not get picked to travel also showed their class and guts to show up. They also showed their desire to improve, probably hoping to make the squad this summer. I applaud their attitude.
I'm sorry I started this discussion, with my curiousity of why more players don't join ODP, it seems to have brought the same old uniformed whining and story telling.
uninformed not uniformed-sorry
23/3/10 4:06 PM
You state that "Holker was quite clear with the boys that the roster had not been officially picked, and would not be until very shortly before the tournament, but would be very very close to the Region II roster." I highly doubt that he held a parent meeting, so I will assume he said it to the players only. So you’re saying that Holker insinuated to the boys that it wasn’t a tryout, when he used the catch phrase “officially”. Even thou it was called a try out on the MYSA web site? Don’t know if many 16-17 year old boys are sophisticated enough to understand what Holker was saying, without really saying it, was that the roster had been pick and he was just going thru the motions. Again, I don’t think anyone would have a problem with them bring the same roster to the tournament, if they were honest and clear. From your version of events honest and clear could not really be applied.
Your class and guts statement show a lack of understanding. You are assuming the boys did not show up were at home watching TV or playing X-box. Perhaps they could have been catching up on their homework, working a part time job or helping their families in other ways. They may have wanted to show their desire to improve and a may even hope to make the squad this summer as well. However, they could also want to graduate and still be able to qualify for NCAA Division I sports. We seem to have a problem getting public school kids that opportunity in soccer. It could be because club coaches and ODP coaches pressure kids to show up for practices instead of studying for a test or a writing paper.
I think the reason why more don’t participate in ODP is clear. When kids show up for one of six try outs session and make the team, it hurts the program. When kids don’t participate in try outs because of injuries but are suddenly ready at the last moment and make the team, it hurts the program. I have heard ODP coaches complain that they had to take regional players even though they were not showing up for tryouts, it hurt the program. When after the teams are pick only 5-8 players show up for the trainings it hurts the program. When they only training maybe six times before going down to Rockford it hurts he program. The reason MN players don’t show up for ODP is because the ODP program doesn’t value itself, why should they. Invest in the program, say what you’re going to do and do what you say. Even in this case with the trainings they did not do what they said they were going to do. You may not like the answer and it isn’t the first time I think you have heard it, but I think it closer to the truth than you believe.
23/3/10 5:55 PM Again, uninformed and making up a story to fit your preconceived notions.
Nobody said kids that were not there were doing anything wrong. I said the kids that did show up knowing their wasnt much of a chance showed guts.
ODP is political,always has been and always will be. It's a waste of time and money.
Yes, it showed guts. Did it show more guts than the kid who was keeping his eye of the goal of graduating with good grades? Or picking up a couple of hours at work to pay for college? The fact that they did not make the ODP team would indicate that their chances of getting a scholarship to play soccer are somewhat limited.
I would say the players that didn't show up probably are getting good grades and will probably get promoted at work later in life because they can prioritize.
I don't think the ODP coaches are idiots, didn't mean to even imply that. The ODP program has value issues. The players don't value the program, the parents don't value the program, and the club coaches don't value the program. The ODP coaches don't value the program. The only people who are going to change that perception are the State, Regional and National ODP Coaches and Administrators. Minimum standards of attendance should be stated. Players that have been on National/Regional teams previous years, should not be given automatic roster spots on the following years State team. Once you make the team, mandatory training requirements should also be stated. Most Club Coaches have mandatory training requirements, why doesn’t ODP.
I respect Holker as a coach, and he has brought a lot of great things to the ODP program and MN soccer in general. I would easily name him among my top 5 coaches in the state. However, I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the ODP coaches express frustration over the fact that they have 5-8 kids showing up for training after the teams been picked. Respecting the program has to start from the top.
Just completed a bunch of recruiting questionnaires with my kid, who hopes to play in college. Every one asked for ODP experience. Bummer because he's a great player who chose to train with his high-level team instead of getting involved with such a politically-charged group.
All the detractors keep saying ODP is politically-charged etc.
Tell me a real life example of the politics, not made up, or I assume, this is how I think it is.
Seriously, there must be at least one example for so many on this blog to say it.
Honestly it sounds like fear of rejection to me.
8:07: Here's a politics sample for you...
My son was one of four keepers training with the state ODP team a few years ago that were clearly above all the others. All four keepers played on premier teams. One of the boys showed up when he felt like it and had an outwardly hostile attitude toward two of the three keepers. He didn't show attitude toward the top keeper because that keeper was clearly the best (and physically way ahead of the other three). The attitude kid didn't show any skills that would make him a special player unless you count his ability to use profanity and belittle as many other players as possible.
The kid with the attitude was selected to go to Rockford for the regional games because his parents had clout with MYSA and because he played for a certain club (not my opinion, but that of one of the other keeper's fathers and from a couple of other parents of players that went to Rockford). The kid started lipping off to the coaches during the first match in Rockford and never saw the field again.
The question is, why would the ODP coaches select a kid that is a cancer on the team when he doesn't have/show skills that make him an invaluable player? Politics or whatever else you want to call it (connections, favors, etc.).
8:51 - and how do you know that your son "was clearly above all the others"?
9:45-
I didn't mean that my son individually was above all the others; I meant that there was a group of four that were clearly separate from the others. I've been coaching competitive soccer for 11 years (but not the son in question) and am a licensed coach. It was clear based on physical development (the four were all 6+ feet tall and the rest were maybe 5'8" or less), agressiveness, tactical ability, and foot skills that the four were better keepers than the others.
That is beside the point. The point is that a kid that was a cancer in the ODP program was allowed to continue in the program. Why? Because he had connections. And this has nothing to do with sour grapes. It's just an observation provided in response to one poster on this blog that doesn't seem to think that politics, however you want to define it, isn't part of the ODP system.
I agree with 10:03 and others that politics does play a part in the ODP selection. Politics also plays a part in club team selection, in the work office, school teams, etc... It's unfortunate but true. However, IMO, these occurrences are few and far between. Nothing's perfect. I heard a quote the other day that made some sense - "don't let perfect get in the way of better". Made some sense to me.
The bigger question is what happens or what role will ODP take/evolve into if MN finally does get some clubs admitted on the boys side into the USSF Academy program as those players do not participate in ODP? This whole discussion could be a mute point in another year or two.
My point about college recruiting (at least for boys) is,t ODP is broken, and yet colleges like to see it on a resume. That's a bummer.
Perfect quote. Thanks for sharing
To follow up on that great quote from NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell:
http://posborne1.wordpress.com/2010/03/25/perfect-vs-better/
ODP is on the resume form since it is generally accepted nationwide as one way of filtering prospective student-athletes.
As to Academies, let's face the realities here folks: many D1 programs are going to concentrate their recruiting on Academy teams. For most schools, recruiting budgets are tight, so it only makes sense that they are going to concentrate their traveling to major tournaments where Academy teams are playing, or the tournament has a long established history of attracting top-level teams.
Smaller D1 schools, D2 and D3 schools will be looking at those Academy kids who aren't gobbled up by the primo D1 programs (or those who are going to have a tough time meeting eligibility requirements).
If the USSF Academy program fully matures (and that is an "if"), ODP will be relegated to second-class status. In some areas of the country, this is already happening.
And it does not help that ODP has to be managed by MYSA. John C. knows what he is doing and does a pretty good job of it, but the rest of that outfit.....
The biggest ODP political screw job was a young gal named Caroline Smith who was not chosen for the ODP regional team. Some Mia from Ill. was chosen ahead of her and amounted to nothing. Of course she was from ILL. CS only went on to be D1 soccer player of the year. ODP is over rated and over priced.Minn players are routinely passed by.
From the Girls Club thread from a week ago......
Anonymous said...
Don't believe C Smith even made an ODP region team. So much for ODP. Of course she wasn't good enuff for da Gophas either. best player to come out of Sota ever!
17/3/10 8:03 PM
Anonymous said...
i always love the Caroline Smith fan club posts that come completely unsolicted out of left field.........
17/3/10 8:11 PM
"best player to come out of Sota ever!"
Ever hear of Brianna Scurry?
I think she hoisted a World Cup and wore a gold medal, or something like that.
But Caroline Smith is up there.
Here is another ODP story, ODP coach told club coach that they really like this player, he takes charge of the backfield, makes correct choices and is not flustered when pressured. So when it came time to selection the player was passed over because of size. Now ODP is supposed to be about development so there was no forward thinking on their part. This was when he was u14, that player is now over 6 feet tall. This experience turned off that player to ODP, he continued to play on the top club for his age and helped them to many state cup campionship games and 1 title.
it's almost Friday evening happy hour for all those folks out there to have their glass of whine.
Hard to say VLY has been a successful club. They have 1 team that is competitive...hardly makes a 'club' successful.
Lets all remember that ODP is a shell of its former self. Ever since the Academy system started 3 years ago, ODP is kind of a joke.
Anyone at any tourneys this weekend?
it is true what 5:32 says about ODP...
Watched U16 and U18 academy games in Chicago this weekend. Sockers and Scott Gallagher. Wow. Thank god they can't play State Cup. Now if we can just get rid of SSM.
State Cup brackets are up
I like how SSM gets to play in the U16 Boys bracket at State Cup, yet are registered with MYSA as a U18 team. If SSM wants to be an academy, then be an academy and quit using MYSA like a kept woman.
There have always been teams that register at a different age but play at there own age for state cup. Where have you been 10:01? Get over it they are not the only ones who have done that before! I hate SSM too but that is a ridiculous thing to say.
No, 11:16, it's not ridiculous. I was pointing out that as one example of how MYSA just does what it wants do, altering rules when it wants so, but then drops the hammer on any clubs that ask for leniency on much more minor issues. The fact that it's been going on for years doesn't change the fact that it's wrong. If a player registers to play with a club at U18, he can't go play with a team at U16 even if he's truly U16. That should apply across the board. If a team (from SSM or anywhere else) wants the tougher competition of playing up two years, then play up all the time.
You see, this is what you are all about, win win win..what ever happened to development??
Anyone notice the Dallas Cup scores today??
SSM 18s playing U19, won 5-1, SSM 17s got beat 0-1 by IMG, 16s won 1-0 v Gadalajala
WoW, SSM 18s playing U19 at THE biggest youth tournament in the US for boys, they should not be allowed to play U18 State Cup in MN. NOT! Congrates to the SSM teams. I think just being able to play at this tournament means that they are a real academy. SSM has a very good record at the past few Dallas Cups.
10:26 - Yes!
One of these days SSM will be in the US Develpopment Academy and they won't be allowed to participate in State Cup. You'll get your wish.
I don't understand why everyone complains right now about SSM being in MN State Cup...what they won 1 of the 3 age groups they entered last year. Wow we should all be so scared right now.
I don't know about anyone else, but I care about SSM being in the State Cup not because of winning, but because it takes away a spot for another team (or requires teams participate in a play-in game).
10:01 and 12:39, if you had a clue you'd be dangerous. The reason behind a u16 team playing at u18 is due to CC's forcing a rule through MYSA not allowing proper placement in premier or even C1 for new teams. Unless you were already a team that earned C1 or premier status you cannot join, even if you will destroy other teams. That rule was brought by everyone but the SSM and MTA/Bangu clubs. In fact, I would bet most competitive clubs now do not like the rule they forced-ask SCV and many others.
By the way, State Cup has to follow USYouth soccer rules, not MYSA.
This is how congress works. LMAO
SSM and MTA will both be in the USSF Academy next year. SSM and MTA older boys and girls will not be playing in State Cup in the next year or two. Its a done deal on USSF, announcement coming soon.
MN State Cup can have differnt rules. They can be more restrictive on them. As pointed out at the AGM last Nov, when Tom wanted to create a MYSA rule on admitiance to state cup that was more restrictive.
That is why it Tom seems to make up rules as each year goes.
State Cup brackets anyone? MRL has started as well. Big weekend out in Lakeland April 14-16.
17s State Cup brackets look competitive, with Shattuck drawing Bloomington, MTA white and Blue drawing each other, and EP, Edina, Blackhawks and SCV in the other. Feel bad for PSA, finishing 4th last year but getting a play-in against a decent Champlin team just to fit into the Shattuck bracket.
thoughts on who makes it out?
Anon 30/3/10 12:50 PM
I know the SSM kool aid likes to think that MN is so-o-o lucky to have their program involved as it aids MN Soccer development. But all I've seen them do is make soccer an exclusive sport. Sorry, making parents spend more money on soccer isn't development it's business. I hope the rich kids continue to get their butts kicked at State Cup, just to show the rest of US Soccer you don't have to have parents with six figured incomes to be good soccer players.
Bring me the wah, wah, wahmbulance for 10:52.
As another poster stated, once they are in the USSF Academy system (if selected), then you can start bitching about the fact that they exist there. SSM is now in the role that Bangu used to fill. Everyone needs someone to beat up on since it is sooo Minnesotan to be passive-aggressive.
I have a funny feeling that SSM isn't gonig to miss MYSA a whole lot either.
Yeah, maybe SSM can win something in the Academy system, because they sure can't win at State Cup. But that right it doesn't matter to the rich boys. They just play in State Cup for fun, because it doesn't matter. Yeah right. Tell me is SSM Kool aid taste like cherries?
MTA parents please stop using " Kool Aid" in reference to SSM. For years you have been drinking Kool Aid and never figured it out so please refrain from using that term.
yummy, kool aid. both types pretty good, one just much more reasonable in price!
Based on most of the recent comments, someone must be running a springtime special on lobotomies somewhere.
Not sure if the post about MTA and SSM entering USSF next year is true. If so, SSM will be gone from MN soccer (State Cup and MYSA leagues), which is good for them and good for us, but MTA will likely still have a state presence, as they have multiple teams at each age group. So, their TOP teams won't be eligible for State Cup, but their second teams will. If I recall, quite a few of MTA's second teams were better than everyon else's first teams. And that ain't no April Foolin.
Is anyone ticked off that U17 boys play their first game at 6pm on what will probably be a Prom night for many players, and their third game at 8am on a Sunday that will likely be the morning after a Prom night for manhy players? Thank goodness they didn't schedule games during the SAT test on May 1.
Here goes:
13B: MTA/MUS/LKV/SCV. MTA/LKV. MTA. Comment: Group A is loaded. The championship will be played in that group. Too bad they don't seed at U13.
14B: MTE/MTA/MTW/MUS. MTE/MTW/ MTW. Comment: If you hate MTA, don't watch U14B.
15B: MTA/SCV/EDP/NSS. MTA/SCV. SCV. Comment: Picking SCV because MTA can't win everything, can they?
16B: MTA/SCV/PSA/MUS1(Wildcats). MTA/SCV. MTA. Comment: MTA is so good here.
17B: SSM/MTW/SCV/MTA. MTA/SSM. SSM. Comment: MTA blue is much improved, but SSM is so good here.
18B: WSD/BHK/SSM/SCV. SSM/BHK. SSM. Blackhawks are scary good, but SSM is more seasoned at this time of year.
19B: MTA. Comment: This is the only pick I'm certain of.
P.S. I'll add I'm not an MTA fan. But I learned a lesson when I picked Duke to lose in the first-round of March Madness: plug your nose and pick the team that will win.
1/4/10 4:02 PM
you sound more informed than I, but I think you missed SSM at u16. Pretty good team, very physical. If they can get by a dirty PSA without too many retaliation cards, I would pick them to win their group. PSA will probably get the wildcard due to a soft grouping other than SSM.
Why wouldn't the #1 seed (MTA) get the play in team?? Odd.
Wow, 1/4/10 4:17 PM SSM U16 is very physical but PSA is dirty. Hmmm, I wonder what team your kid plays on.
Congrats to the MN Boys making the top 100 list
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/players-to-watch/players-to-watch-top-100/men?utm_source=Weekly+E-Blasts&utm_campaign=4-2&utm_medium=email
If I'm reading it right, their are no SSM players on this list.
One of the boys on the list doesn't live in Minnesota anymore. His family left before school last fall.
It's been officially announced.....
MTA & SSM into the USSF Academy program.
2010 will be their last year for state cup since they will now work off of a calendar year and not the Aug-July "soccer" year.
I enjoy reading the names on those Top 100 lists and seeing a majority of the names likely being non-white names. It goes to show, it's all in the family and the culture.
Since I've pretty much been right about everything in the last 365 days:
U13: MTA
U14: MTA
U15: MTA
U16: MTA
U17: MTA
U18: Blackhawks
U19: MTA
Go Blackhawks
It's been posted on the USSF website. MTA & SSM into the Academy.
http://www.ussoccer.com/News/News-Landing.aspx
This is good news for soccer development on the boys side as well as potential college opportunities due to the exposure.
Now if we could just get a fe D-1 men's programs in this state!
Hey 1/4/10 4:54 PM, no kid in either of those teams. I've seen both of them play. It's not a rip to say SSM is physical, more of our MN teams need to find physical to compete out of state. But dirty is a whole different story.
You obviously have not seen the PSA 16's (or for that matter the PSA 15's) in the last few years or heard any of the stories about recent scrimmages. I doubt that even the majority of the parents on those teams would disagree that they have too many players who would be categorized as talented athletes but dirty.
3:42pm - there is no way you can not schedule around every prom in the state of MN
actually, you can have the 17s, and 18s (juniors and seniors) play on saturdays and Sundays at 8am, 9am, 10am, 11am, noon, 1pm, 2pm, 3pm or even 4pm. that ought to avoid just about every prom in the state.
Now that SSM and MTA will be in the DAP do they really need to play State Cup this year ?
Yeah, they'll just stop competing now. 2/4/10 8:51 is D-U-M-B, Stupid
MTA will to continue compete at State Cup in all age groups except those involved in the Academy.
They could even have their second teams compete at U16 & U18 if they want.
Like other USSF academy clubs, MTA will continue to field second teams at 15, 16, 17, 18 and compete in State Cup, MRL, and other top level tournaments.
Now that MTA has USSF Academy for the Boys, Elite National League for the Girls, MTA will definitely attract top boys and girls in MN. Both of these programs for boys and girls attract top college coaches at their games. Thus, Minnesota dads and moms, regardless which CC teams your boy or girl is playing, if you want your kid to be scouted by top schools, and if they are good, they will be playing for MTA. Other dads and moms whom their boy or girl could not make the cut to be a part of MTA will continue to bitch and swear at MTA until the end of time because their kid is not good enough to play at top level.
Here come the sales pitches from MTA. New and improved snake oil.
10:08, they bitch and swear because MTA usually knows which kids aren't going to make a top team early on, but they keep taking the parent's money anyway.
Don't think they really need to have much of a sales pitch any more. Just hang out the sign that says:
ECNL - highest level of competition and exposure for girls
USSF DAP - highest level of competition and exposure for boys
8:43 - quick question, does MTA "take the parents money" or do the parents "give MTA the money"?
I think it is great that everyone is happy to have MTA and SSM join the USDA program so that other will have better "chances at State Cup".
The hilarious part is that those teams who are crying for an easier path to own a State Cup patch will STILL get beaten by the MTA B teams. You are no closer to a patch than you have ever been- ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
The real funny thing is that you would spend that kind of money for your kid to play on a white team and maybe play division 2 or 3. Now thats funny!! ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha or the fact that you actually believe it when they tell you your kid has talent. News flash: That's how they separate you from your money. 99.9 % of the time they are just blowing smoke up your tailpipe.
1:27 is spot on. Yep, they take your money and keep telling you how wonderful your kid is, blah, blah, blah.
Until he or she is cut.
Seen it too many times over the years and it will only get worse with the USDA. So 9:27, yes, they do take the money because they blow smoke up the parent's tailpipes early and often.
8:43.
Bangu used to be about just elite soccer, MTA is a business and about the money.
To my knowledge all clubs who belong to USSF Academy and ECNL have 2nd and even 3rd teams.
These are usually the tops clubs in a particular metro area and attract the top coaches, the top talent and players serious about improving their skills.
Are all the top clubs across the USA blowing smoke up everyone's "tailpipe"? Or is it just MTA that does that?
650: Please try to follow. Most large clubs not affilated with a community need to have 2nd and 3rd teams to afford the salaries of their directors. Without those teams they wouldn't have enough money to pay themselves. So yes I think all top clubs blow smoke to get parents of 2nd and 3rd teamers to buy into their program. If they didn't blow smoke most people probably would buy into their program at that level. I orginally commeted because of 929's arrogant comment. If everything you said is true then why didn't they sweep every age group last year. I honestly believe that with the amount of kids they get and the quality of some that there shouldn't be an age group that they don't win and in my opinion the games shouldn't be close, but they don't come close to wining them all and a lot of games are close which leads me to believe that maybe their coaches aren't all what they claim to be.
lol 1:38, you took 9:29's bait and swallowed hook, line and sinker (statements like that one should not even be acknowledged).
FYI - ALL club soccer is a business (at least that's my belief until I come across the club that is 100% volunteer directors, coaches, administrators, etc...).
Talented but dirty? it doesn't go together. Your comments shows your true feelings towards those particular african players. They are talented and learning how to play organized soccer in a new environment.
2:32 I'm not going to say to which club I belong, but we are COMPLETELY volunteer. Not a single board member is paid. Nor do we have a coaching director, administrators, or any paid staff. And you know what, we have had and continue to have C1 and premier teams.
And, as for kids flocking to MTA to get the best chance to play at an elite level, you're assuming parents will want to commute to get their kids to 3-4 practices a week and pay a minimum of three times what other clubs charge for that opportunity.
I've got nothing against MTA, but that system just doesn't work for 3 out of 4 families in MN.
4:14 - how many teams? What is the name of the club?
4:14,
Are the team coaches paid...or are they all volunteer?
Wow - a FREE soccer club. Nothing to pay for except field/dome time and tournament fees. Like 4:22 & 4:38, I'd love to know the name of the club. Hats off to all the coaches spending 8-10 hours per week for free plus volunteering their time all weekends at tournaments (plus the costs of travel/hotels/food, etc...).
2:32 I agree with you that MTA is not for most MN families, but would go much further to say that it is not for 99 out of 100 families in MN. I have a son playing for MTA and a son playing for our CC club. My MTA son wanted to play on a team that is competitive regionally because he was experiencing that through ODP. (And he didn't get on an ODP team through all the politics some complain of -- nobody knew him before he tried out and made the team).
So he moved from his C1 team to MTA. Our CC DOC encouraged it, because it was BEST FOR THE PLAYER AND HIS DEVELOPMENT. It would open up another spot on the C1 team at the CC, and that's a good thing, right? MTA (at least the MTA elite program) is clearly a program for players who are seeking to play good teams outside MN, those who are seeking to play regionally and be in a better position to PROMOTE THEMSELVES for college play (which is the only way to get a coach interested, by the way). But even that -- getting coaches to watch regional games that are not development academy games -- was getting increasingly more difficult. So MTA's acceptance to the DA will be great for top level MN players.
MTA is clearly more $$ (of which none will be returned via a scholarship -- anyone with that notion will be very dissapointed) -- but also much more club out-of-pocket expense for winter dome time, etc. Bottom line -- it is expensive but money well spent to keep my son centered in a productive activity in which he has gained lots of self-confidence. So to all those who want to beat on MTA, please leave these kids alone. They are just kids trying to excel at a sport they love.
5:37, most of us leave the kids alone. It's their obnoxious parents we love to rile up.
4:41 -- I'm 5:37. amd have been involved in CC soccer for 10 years and MTA for 2. Just one perspective, but on the obnoxious scale the MTA parents are pretty low. Most of them have been pretty involved as coaches, managers or CC board memmbers (and several I know are still on their CC club board, and one is president of his local CC). That's not surprising of course -- their kids were showing ability at the game and they were supporting it. The most obnoxious parents I've seen are those at the CC's who don't follow the game as well, but think their lad is just as good as the others but not getting a fair chance. I've sat on MTA sidelines for a few years, and it's the quietest group of parents I've ever been around.
1124, parents are all the same no matter what club you play for. Now arrogance is another story with MTA parents taking the cake as evident by your comments.
Hey 5/4/10 3:28 PM You're right, talented and dirty don't go together because dirty always outweighs the talent.
You have no idea what ethnic background I am, so don't pull that bull race card crap. Nobody cares what background they have, they are dirty, go watch a game, a scrimmage or even show up after either of these and watch the players.
Sounds like you know who the main culprits are, you pointed them out. I must not be exagerating.
It has nothing to do with race, color or anything else but poor temper control. By the way, the rest of the team and some of the coaches are nearly as bad.
OK 12:20, got it, thanks for the keen insight.
138, your welcome!! Glad I could be of service!!
Get it out of your system while you can because once the USSF Academy program kicks in it will be a lot harder to rip into SSM & MTA. No more "who's going to win State Cup", "ODP politics", "they win because they recruit", etc....
Folks will just have to digger harder - but unfortunately, I'm sure they will.
As a former player for both, here is my perspective:
CC Parents: Far more obnoxious, less arrogant.
Select Club Parents: Some arrogance, far less obnoxious.
In general, the better the team, the quieter the parents. Obviously, some strange outliers exist.
I love when parents say, "The sport they love." That's such crap. If these kids truly "loved" the game, we'd have a lot more players continuing to play after U17 and 12th Grade.
9:59 -- I was talking about the select team players when I unfortunately gushed about "the sport they love." I agree that statement was sentimental and humbly retract it. Suffice it to say that my son and his teammates I know well are very happy (in love? maybe no) with the game and its a huge and positive part of their life. And my bet is that all of them continuing playing into adulthood, if not in college. Most select players keep going, do you disagree?
I just wish those adult players would remember while they are playing that they love the game, and are not playing just to win.
Don't get me wrong, winning is more fun, but some don't look like they are enjoying the experience much at all.
Makes you wish the Academy designation was granted a few years ago, doesn't it, Mike?
That's correct Mike.
??? Who is Mike?
Some of the U-17s are actually very fun to watch.. can't say the same thing about many of the 18s. Blackhawks vs MTA final
1:35 PM no one cares
I personally think if you took the top 15 players at this year's U18, they might be the best age group MN has ever seen. I think you could probably say the same thing about the top 30 players too.
DM
In a preview of next year's academy clubs, both 16 and 17 boys will have Shattuck and MTA Blue in the finals. When they leave the best of the rest will fight it out in a weakened field.
Having SSM and MTA in the USSF Academy will be good for soccer in Minnesota.
What this will do is allow 2 teams full of players (36 more players)to play at the premier or Midwest league level exposing those players to a more competitive playing environment which will raise their ability level. Then the same will happen with 2 more teams who get to move up to C1 etc...
This is the best thing to happen to Minnesota soccer in a long time.
8:06, Duh.
It's just too bad we won't be able to see the direct results of those improvements within MN in a Golden Gopher Men's team.
I've always said the Gophers could field a strong team with a MN-based nucleus. These improvements at the youth level would likely make us even stronger.
Damn Title IX.
1971 birth year is the best year. Sanneh, M. Lagos, Magee, Gramenz. All played professionally. One in the WC, one in the Olympics. The team won a National Championship on the boys side too. Magee had a stint in the MLS, and Gramenz was a main stay on a solid Thunder team. Any other good players from 1971 year? What other years produced top players.
Please, please, please let not go there. You'll only bring out the CRAZIES! 12/4/10 2:59 PM DM has been carrying on about that age group for ever. I've seen them on the field many, many times. They are probably the most over hyped age group to come along in a while. Besides, I think you are correct in subtlety pointing out that at this point they really have not done ANYTHING. Give them a few years and we will see. However right now, they just a bunch of kids with over involved parents.
I think the '71 group is easily the best Top 5 collection MN has had...Sanneh alone could carry any age group.
However, if you took the true top 15 from the '92s (which has never been done), that group would have been outstanding. As mentioned, some over-involved parents and some idiot coaches and some idiot players kind of messed up that chance.
DM
Coulda, woulda, shoulda DM. We will never know. Your trifecta of over-involved parents and idiot coaches and players kinda puts the kibosh on your whole premise now, doesn't it?
lol - let's all go back in time to almost 40 years ago and start making comparisons. the youth/club soccer landscape is entirely different now. not saying they weren't all quality players, but those comparisons make for interesting blog fodder, but not much else. i bet if all the players mentioned were now 12 years old and starting the state/youth/regional/national ID process there would be a completely different outcome.
The point is then the '71 showed what can be accomplished when "us" is the focus. While the '92 have shown us what is lost when "me" is the focus.
9:27 - couldn't agree more. too many "wanna be" piano players and not enough piano movers..... or just as accurately too many parents who wanted their little Donovan's to be piano players....
I agree with 3:56
Regardless of how many national championships were won or what was accomplished post-MYSA, I still:
"...think if you took the top 15 players at '92, they might be the best age group MN has ever seen."
The only group that may be better is '71 and you can't really argue against that. I played in what I would consider a top 5 group, yet I'm not too stubborn or blind to realize the depth of talent at '92.
I'm amused by people who bash this opinion. We should celebrate and be proud of talented groups.
DM
Trying the same thing again DM is not going to improve your odds of getting any more support. I'm guessing your kid is one of the 15.
71 has a lot of other players that were really good too.
Matt Holmes who played for the Thunder and played at WI. Aaron Nelson who played at UW Milwaukee, Andy Beaton who is now a HS Principal and played at Armstrong and MAC, Mark Lebere who played professionally in CO. Was Abboud a 71?
Fine. '71 is the clear best...whatever. Then I'll say, '92 is the 2nd most talented overall.
Does anyone else have any positive opinions other than '71? I doubt it. Nobody knows enough about MYSA history to make a statement.
DM
(I don't have kids. I don't coach. I'm smrter than you.)
Who cares whose better because it is a well known fact that I was the greatest ever. If you don't believe me just ask me!!
Wow people. Blogs are fun places to debate things like which class is the best. Tell us why and not rip on people. Dont hide behind your computer and make comments that no person cares to read. Tell me why 92 class is so good, i would like to learn more.
36 players
11 starters
3 subs
4 bench riders
what do the other 18 do
besides practice
& pay
or do they
how much does it cost
is it a sliding scale like it is now
is there some website that explains it all
lc
lc, I assume you are asking about US development academy teams??
Go to USSOCCER website it has some info. So far, I have heard that each player on the roster is required to start 25% of the scheduled games (approximately 30 per year). Fees are subsidized by USSOCCER. Most people are guessing that minimal fees are incurred by the players, but not much info yet. USSOCCER says $5 per player and administrative fees to the club. I would guess uniforms, maybe dome and field fees, probably some travel- not sure.
If you find anything else, please report back.
I think it's quite clear the '71s are the best group considering they won our only national championship and considering what they did post-MYSA.
I think the '92s are 2nd best because:
- in there younger years, PSA Super Eagles were a regional power for a couple years.
- they've had more ODP Regional selections throughout the years than any group I can remember.
- they've had ODP National presence with that kid nobody ever remembers, A. Tadese I think.
- they have regional success at the club level from various teams in MRL.
- they have more depth with numerous strong club teams than I believe MN has ever seen. I would say this is the strongest argument for the 92s being overall the strongest.
If you combined the 2-3 best MN players from SCV, VLY, SSM, MTA, ARS, BHK, that group would be pretty darn talented and there would be a lot of pretty darn good players left off.
As 8:02 says, somebody will rip this apart without providing their own analysis supporting a stronger group. Somebody will say ODP is meaningless. Somebody will say State Cup doesn't mean anything. Somebody will say MRL isn't 2nd tier. Blah blah blah. It's the 2nd best group MN has seen.
DM
(I don't have kids. I don't coach.)
DM,
I would take the Tsunami Gold team with Glinske, Scwebach, Gotsmananov and we would crush the 92's.
No contest, way better players who went on to play for some very good D1 programs.
U-18 boys MRL premier
Valley - 2
Javanon - 0
Javanon 2 time defending region champions
Too bad they are not following the rules because they are a good team: "Furthermore in regards to REgion II wild card slots, rule 5.01 says,"in each age group, two Wild Card slots to the US Youth Soccer Region II Championships may
be awarded to MRL Premier Division teams. In order to be eligible for a Wild Card slot, the
following conditions must be met:
(a) The team must participate in their State Association State Cup competition for the US
Youth Soccer National Championship Series during the current seasonal year..."
Any other u18 mrl scores yet (SCV, AFC, SSM?)
SSM 1, ARS 1
SSM 4, Elm Grove 1
St Croix Red Devils (MN)-1 Lou Fusz-Moser (MO)-2
18 boys MRL
Valley - 9
Bluegrass (KY) - 0
Valley United is the lamest! Lets put a buch of cocky kids on one team and add athleticism and no talent.
I hear the bluegrass boys all ran off the playing field after 5 mins, thought it was an air raid from Iraq!
FC Pride will win the div.
DM- I guess I've never been that impressed with the '92. Sorry. They always had alot of parents (an others with vested interest)carrying on about how good they are. Reality is they just didn't step up to the plate when it counted. (U16's or U17's)
What really makes me wonder is why you feel the need to carry on and on about it. At this point, who cares. These boys need to have the adults stop spinning them and let the boys prove themselves on the field.
Unless your A. Tadese or his "agent" who cares, you can't claim their anything at this point other than should haves, could haves.
Say what you want about Valley, they are putting up the numbers and it would be nice to have a MN team win that premier MRL division. If they do go on to win it ,it's a shame that they won't be able to be the wildcard to regionals because they aren't playing State Cup. It's a shame to think they won't be competing and yet there are C1 teams in it (PRL, CRA, WYZ) in it.
BTW, I am from an opposing team who thinks Mark is a decent guy...With their successes, I guess their kids do have something to be cocky about (although I prefer to see kids be humble...) The key is to understand their missile launching style---I bet they caught the other MRL teams off guard and then it was too late for the opposition to catch up.
If the other teams know VYL did not enter state then the game is great scimmage for them and they can game time for some of their players. My guess is they do.. they the results are not true.
Tsnami Gold from '83s was a good team. Sasha is probably one of the 10 best MN players ever and one of the best goalscoreres MN has ever had. They also had the rare occurrence of having a great coach.
However, talk about underachieving. I might be wrong, but that team went to regionals multiple times and I don't think they ever advanced out of group play. Maybe once, but I don't think so. I'd say they're a top 10 group and just like a lot of the groups between '75s - '85s.
Also, the 83 Tsunami Gold was pretty much an 83 select team. With the 92s, all the players are scattered around 8 teams. I'd say the 92 have done well considering that.
In terms of stepping up to the plate, I'd say MN coaches and admins didn't step up to the plate to consolidate talent in the 92s.
1. 1971s
2. 1992s
3. I think you could argue a lot of groups to be in this spot. I think one of the current MYSA groups will soon claim this spot, or higher.
DM
(not a parent. not a coach. not an agent. just an observer.)
After the 92s, I think it was the 78s that have had the most success regionally. I think they advanced once or twice. They too had a number of players that played at top universities (Maryland, Dartmouth, Boston, Marquette).
DM
(older than a 78)
Considering MN top 10 players, it's interesting to note that many our best players (Lagos, Cullen, Gotmanonov, Bunbury) all had fathers that coached or were very involved.
As I've said before on here, it's all in the family and in the culture. That's why the 92s, for example, are dominated by minority players.
DM
12:09
Valley is not forfieting their games for MRL, those results are very legit. They may not be allowed to go to regionals if they finish high enough but they are still playing the games and the results are real. If you have a son in that age group, which I do not thankfully, I would count yourselves as lucky that they are not playing state cup as they have already beaten two out of four regional semifinalists from last year, including the champions.
DM - your comment "In terms of stepping up to the plate, I'd say MN coaches and admins didn't step up to the plate to consolidate talent in the 92s" is a fair assessment, but as we all know it's the parents at that age group who controlled all the player movement.
Too many of the parents of the 92's are coaches...too many cooks in the kitchen with this group.
1:11,
When I said "coaches," that was supposed to imply "parents" because of a few key "parent-coaches" in that group that easily could have made something happen if they had looked and even been aware of the bigger picture.
DM
you don't think they were aware of the bigger picture? the only picture most of them cared about watching out for their own kid.
quick question for everyone......why are parent-coaches so much more prevalent on the boys side than on the girls side? you rarely ever see this scenario with the girls.
Valley United is one of the problems within the system. Apple Valley cares more about winning high school championships than they do about winning national championships or anything else. Hence, they frown upon their players leaving Valley United. It has always been this way.
They even brainwash their kids into this thought process by having them wear those t-shirts that say "VALLEY RULES" on them.
With Valley being such a hotbed for talent for so long in MN, it messes things up because they never contribute to the greater cause as they isolate their talent from the rest of the state.
What is strange is how Valley players never realize this until after they graduate (when they are removed from the "Valley Rules" spell). Then they realize that winning a high school championship isn't all that cool but winning a national championship would be outstanding.
Believe me winning a state championship is cool, and you would know if you had done it, good for those guys and sticking together to accomplish that
And why would those kids leave what they had, they were by far the best team when they were younger, U12 and under, it was that no one else ever came to valley until some guys figured it out later and now they again are the best team
12:53 FYI - Teams at U18 are not the same teams with their accomplishments at U17. Players are changing teams big time at U18. So to say AV beat team with regional semi-finalist and champions means nothing.
Ok, DM just because you post and post and post doesn't make it so. The '92 can't be considered ANYTHING at this point. They haven't done ANYTHING. Perhaps if a few get significant playing time in quality D1 programs you can start to talk. Perhaps if a few get some professional opportunities you can talk. Until then they been nothing.
Something else to think about. This past high school season was the WORSE I've ever seen! Valley was a quality high school team, but after that their wasn't much. If the '92 had so much more talent we should have seen alot better high school soccer. However, I think most if not all would agree, overall this was the worse boys high school soccer season I have seen.
In summary, you can talk about the '92 in 2015 or 2017. The '78 were decent, the '88 show some promise. Top ten, I think we struggle for a top three.
MN 93s went to ODP final four last month. not a lot of teams did that. put them on list.
When I talk about top classes, I prefer to think about what they did in MYSA. After they graduate from MYSA is a different discussion. I prefer to think about it in terms of what they did as Minnesotans with Minnesota coaches, etc.
I'd say the 92s have had top 3 regional success and have placed more players in the ODP regional pool over the years collectively than any other age group.
Just going by individual talent, I think 92s are top 2.
Can somebody list a COMPLETE and ACCURATE list of all the MN Boys teams that have advanced at regionals? It's probably under 10 teams. I think that, along with ODP accomplishments, are the two most telling criteria.
DM
(not a parent. not a coach.)
DM your thinking is flawed. Age groups at the younger ages can and are dominated often by single "early maturing" player. We have all seen it happen over and over at State Cup. So your advancing at regionals criteria should be limited to the age groups of U16 and up. When the game is about something other than size an speed of one individual player.
Limiting the regional advancement to U16 and up and adding some of the ODP stuff, here how I think they should be ranked.
1. '71
2. '89 (SSM had a team take 2nd in Nationals with MN boys on the team)
3. '78
4. '93 (Advanced to the final 4 at ODP camp this year)
5-6 '88 & '92
Your comment about '92 being dominated by the minority players makes me question your judgements. You say you're not a coach or a parent, but you obviously have an agenda.
11:43,
Valid point about my flawed analysis and I agree with your U16 and up criteria.
I think your opinion is flawed too. It looks to me like you only know things about more recent history seeing as though you have 88, 89, 92 and 93 in your top 6 (along with the obvious 71 and with 78, which I previously listed).
To think that between 79 and 87 there weren't any good groups is probably incorrect.
DM
(no agenda. just blogging.)
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