Many may have already read or heard about the demise of the MN Thunder and PDL Rochester Thunder. Unpaid bills, released players, no communication from owner Dean Johnson, would lead most to believe the MN Thunder no longer exist. Also, with the USL recently being sold to a ownership group with no team, a fraction of the former USL called the TOA (Team Owners Association) which represents angry team ownership for 6 or 7 USL/former USL teams, has been working on putting together a new league for a 2010 schedule.
For more details check out Inside MN Soccer, where Brian Quarstad has done an excellent job following the break story lines. See http://www.insidemnsoccer.com for more details.
What does all of this mean to top level soccer in Minnesota? What will all the former Thunder fans do May-August of 2010?
224 comments:
1 – 200 of 224 Newer› Newest»so far so good, young players wont come back from thunder games bored by it all so no negative impact anymore.
thunder was a farce
Way to start it off with a hate post hater. Good for you!
Why is 8:49's post called as a hate post? Maybe he just called the Thunder what it is, a farce.
6:34/8:49 (most likely same person) - why do you care? how many games did you even go to?
7:12 AM feeling a liitle insecure this morning?
no not all, most folks would tend to equate that term with someone who responds with a derogatory question and not an answer.....
i'm pretty sure we all know that you have rarely ever gone to a Thunder game (or actually paid to go). like construction and home remodeling it is much easier to tear down than to build up.....
most folks? we all know? Pretty strong generalizations.
Being critical does not necessarily equate to being a hater. May be you should simply ask why he thinks the Thunder is a farce. Afterall, the Thunder's record has not been too good.
Are you a paid season ticket holder 7:12 AM?
The two successful business models that have worked and that the Thunder could emulate are the Kicks and the Saints.
The Kicks are the only soccer team in Minnesota that has ever really caught on. Most people equate the Kicks with outdoor soccer, tailgating and exposure to a high-level of the sport. The Saints are a successful minor league club that people equate to outdoor baseball, tailgating and constant family entertainment.
There is no need to recreate the wheel here, the Thunder need what all soccer teams need; that is creativity a up top; up top in the owners office.
splitsville
I'm not sure the Thunder should emulate the Kicks since they lasted only 5 years, but I agree that creativity is needed. The Thunder needs to attract the casual fan.
Special props go out to Brian Quarstad who has been covering this story tirelessly. His news reports at http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/ have been keeping all of us who do care informed about a sad situation that MN soccer folks cannot ignore. DJ is trying to fly under the radar, with apparently duplitous statements in interviews that Brian is exposing after a few phone calls. Its a shame. The presence of a professional soccer team in MN -- whatever the quality of the organization and play, folks can debate -- cannot be denied as a positive influence on soccer in this state.
But the Thunder marketing plans always seem flawed to me -- they focus on MYSA kids and parents who hardly have time to cut the grass in the summer between shuttling soccer kids to and fro, let alone take in a pro game or two, when they could be focusing on the ethnic groups that are craving for higher level soccer games. Send some buses to the ethnic neighborhoods for free rides to games, and start a fan pipeline. Who knows if they'll have a chance for a do over. Looks bleak.
Do you really think ethnic groups crave for Thunder-level of soccer? Cable TV is available for viewing higher level soccer games.
Yes, I think it would work. Make it a social gathering place for ethnic groups. Thunder-level soccer is still very high. It's not "either/or" -- cable TV games are fine, but populate the team with strong players of Liberian heritage and see what happens.
That might attract some Liberians, but what about other groups?
It may not be "either/or" but it's not necessarily both.
Take a look at the Stardome on a weekend night for ideas on who you could attract to a minor league soccer game.
FRI SAT SUN until midnight. The dome is swamped with hispanic teams and their friends and families. All winter long these teams play, if they could they would have a festival atmosphere, but the dome is reluctant to allow food and drinks that would ruin the turf.
Some decent ethnic food, drinks and affordable prices could mean lots of fans and fun.
You think MN has problems.
Europe is investigating 200 FIXED GAMES including Champions and qualifying matches from UEFA's Elite Champions League.
Austria,Belguim,Bosnia,Croatia,Germany,Slovania,Switzerland,Turkey...
Forget about pro soccer in the U.S. for another generation or two.
hi, mnfutbol.blogspot.com!
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I for one will miss thunder soccer
I can't get excited about Thunder team. Winning doesn't help but something else is missing.
This is a loss, I remember attending the Rhino/Thunder match with NSC packed for the Championship one of the best memories attending a match my sons and I have....
Ethnic groups should be targeted. The Blaine location is not good, but the improved NSC stadium is alright. The free bus/shuttle system is an excellent idea.
The liberian, somali and latino populations should be a target audience. While they can watch higher level football on TV, everyone enjoys the in-person experience, particularly minority groups.
We need Zygi to buy the Thunder, tear down the Metrodome and build an outdoor stadium on the same site for the Thunder and Vikings, a la Seattle. Somebody with a lot more money than Dean Johnson is needed for football to succeed in Minnesota.
Location. Location. Location.
Zygi is too smart for that. He can't even geta stadium for the Vikes.
What does this do to the MTA teams?
Wouldn't it be smart for Zygi to have a stadium tenant for April - October?
for 3,000 fans per game? I wonder if the Monster truck shows attract less or more than 3,000 people at the Dome?
we can all dream......
What does this do to the MTA teams?
30/11/09 11:30 AM
Nothing. They are a separate entity. This has been widely reported on. Read back through the IMS blogs and you'll find it.
What does this do to the MTA teams?
30/11/09 11:30 AM
Nothing. They are a separate entity. This has been widely reported on. Read back through the IMS blogs and you'll find it.
Just because they are separate entities does not explain away everything. There are(were)ties between the 2 entities. Without its relationship with the Thunder, the Academy becomes just another club and the goal of becoming an international-style soccer academy vanishes.
8:17 - if your child plays for MTA and that was one of the potential benefits that attracted MTA to you then I would not blame you for potentially being frustrated, if not, then your concern would be.....
I feel no frustration, but replies like 6:41 AM are too simplistic or ignorant.
Whether or not my child plays for MTA should be irrelevant. I and others can have a view about MTA that is different to yours. What makes you or 6:41 AM an "expert" on MTA matters?
so what is your view?
BanguTsunami won as many state cup championships prior to aligning with the Thunder as after.
I expect the quality will remain the same, They are now part of the girls ECNL and will most likely be the 1st Minnesota club invited to the USSF Academy.
I really don't expect much to change no matter what the club will be called. They still have the same leadership and same coaches.
"I feel no frustration, but replies like 6:41 AM are too simplistic or ignorant.
Whether or not my child plays for MTA should be irrelevant. I and others can have a view about MTA that is different to yours. What makes you or 6:41 AM an "expert" on MTA matters?
4/12/09 9:15 AM"
Hi, this is the "ignorant simpleton" from 6:41. I'm an expert on MTA matters because I'm a coach in the club, and I just felt like providing a little bit of information to answer someone's question in a way that would hopefully not result in my getting personally attacked knowing the reputation of this blog. Guess that failed miserably. Information is on our club website and BQ has mentioned this many times on IMS to the point where further explanation didn't seem necessary.
It's the first time I've looked at this blog in months and just confirmed why I don't waste my time on here. Just in case you feel the need to confirm my statements, I've even identified myself since I am more than happy to stand behind what I said.
coach - you of all people should realize that most of those posts have little to do with really finding out or better understanding the economic or business relationship between the two entities.....
The common tie between the Thunder and MTA was MA. No other director seemingly shares that guy's vision for an integrated youth club with pro ties. MTA directors have for the most part spurned the use of pro players to help install excitement and passion in the club's kids. My son took part in a youth pro/am last year that I know MA set up. That type of development is nowhere to be found this winter. There are many good pros currently in MN who are very capable trainers and I don't think one of them is involved in MTA. I'm sure that is not the pro player's choice to be excluded. I even now hear of some of them working with non-MTA clubs. Maybe there are pro players on the girls side I can't speak to that.
My kid is not a superstar by any stretch, but takes a lot of pride in wearing the badge of the pro team jersey on his own. I along with many other parents I've chatted with on the sidelines this year, thank MA for this and hope that the club will wake up and continue to move forward on the path he set for it.
If we don't have a pro team in the area next year that obviously changes things.
Why be so defensive? My commment was not intended to be a personal attack on you. Rather, I just believe the statement that MTA is separate (legal)entity does not necessarily mean that things will be the same. It may get better or may get worse.
You are wrong 11:06 AM and that is part of the problem with this blog. No one can question MTA, its leadership or strategy/plans without being lambasted on this blog.
i think 11:19 just confirmed 11:06's whole premise.
Why doesn't anyone ever question what Woodbury, Blackhawks, TCF, Eagan, DREV, etc... leadership or strategy/plans are?
You just don't get it 11:24 AM
it's almost too easy 11:51....
11:55 AM must be the true "ignorant simpleton"
shooting fish in a barrel
taking candy from a baby
riling up the anti-MTA gang
like i said - it's almost too easy
@11:06 - I know. I was just trying to help.
@11:14 - My comments were for clarification only. The tone of this blog requires suspicion of anyone's comments. But you are probably correct in saying that things might change. I don't really know at this point. Didn't mean to come off as defensive. My apologies if I did. I see it as poking fun at your choice of words to describe my first post.
Since it will probably get commented on anyway, my saying that things might change doesn't mean I know anything that I'm not saying. For full clarity, when I say I don't know, I really don't know what is going to happen.
11:59 AM -- I don't see any "anti-MTA gang" remarks on this thread, just your pathetic, insecure and defensive remarks. I can see now why Aaron and others think this blog is a waste of time.
I'm not sure where to post this.
Check out the WC Draw today.
England and USA in same group.
Ditto Portugal and Brazil.
12:29 - see 11:59...
12:58 PM -- i won't play your childish games....
me thinks you just did.....
12:24 PM -- Understand. I don't claim to see the future either.
@1:54 - I don't recall making that implication.
2:15 PM You said " I really don't know what is going to happen."
@2:15 - Ah...I now see where I neglected to recognize the implied "I" at the beginning of the 1:54 post. I initially read it as an imperative sentence rather than a declarative. My bad.
By the way, you can address me by my name. I'm not shy or embarassed by it.
Aaron, shut up.
@6:56 - It is that astounding level of insight, civility and maturity that makes this blog exactly what it is. I am going to give you your wish because I have an infinite amount of better things to do.
I am the one that started it by asking what would happen to the MTA teams. I don't have infinite time (I have a job) to read all of the blogs in the world and how or where they mention the demise of the Thunder and the subsequent effects on the club that was just recently attached to it. Sorry.
hahaha
The MTA are a joke, my sons team BARELY lost to them in the USA CUP final because they had to bring in U20 and shattuck st marys players to beat the RRR. The RRR had made a name for themselves by going 17-1-3 through out the year. I hope the MTA goes under to show how worthless it is to have a sponsor. The only sponsor you should have is your town. Thats what ramsey had. They are alone in that category, they didnt pay to have people cheer for them
1:57 is a stupid hick! They didn't barely loose...the score was close, but the game was not. An average C1 team making the USA cup final is a regular occurance. 17-1-3 against terribe competition is nothing to cheer about.
8:41 PM -- did they bring in U20 and shattuck st marys players?
1:57 Getting a lucky goal and never touching the ball past the first 5 minutes is not a BARELY losing. Yes they did win by only one goal but should have had plenty more. RRR was a great high school team but they should try to say they are better than a solid summer squad, or even put themselves in the same category.
but did MTA bring in U20 and shattuck st marys players?
Wow, seems like there are some ruffled feathers. I seen the RRR play for YEARS, they are a physical team. They are a quality CC team that was very sucessful in high school. The game that your speaking about was an OK game. RRR had a few chances but the bulk of the game was controlled by MTA.
MTA was invited into the tournament last minute, and picked up two players because so many of MTA players had prior commitments (college tryouts and vacations). They pick up Archie, a U19 player not U20. He did not or has not played for SSM. Maybe IMG, but I'm not sure. They pick up a U17 player, PY. Also not a SSM player. Were they great pick ups? Yeah, so. I feel confident that RRR has in the past picked up players that have helped their team. In a tournament like USA Cup, injuries are expected so for teams to go into them with only 13 players is idoitic. Without those two players as I remember that is how many players MTA would have had. As it was they had at least 2 players on the bench hurt during the championship game.
the exodus continues MT just lost their camp director to Austin Aztex
who is MT??
MT= Minnesota Thunder
who would that camp director be?
Djorn
IMHO I did not think when the Thunder catered or tried to bring the ethnic community in to support them that it worked that well. I much thought that was one of the reason they moved back to NSC. Along with that a high school was not all that great for a semi pro team.
As my kids grew up, we went to quite a few Thunder games. We even had season tickets for 2-3 years. Followed them to San Diego, and Milwaukee once or twice as well. It was fun to see local boys playing. The Thunder players always seem to work hard and getting to know the kids and encouraging them.
I think they lost that local flavor in the past few years and it has hurt them somewhat. I think the fight between MYSA & NSC/Thunder hurt them more than anything. To the point were I wonder if MYSA feels like they help soccer in MN at this time or hurt it?
To be honest, I would travel to Blaine, Hastings, Stillwater, Buffalo to watch a bunch of local boys play well in a semi pro setting, while drinking a beer. It would be better than watching either of the Saints or Twins.
DB was the GM of the Thunder.
He's now the CEO of Austin Aztecs.
This happend a few months ago.
I believe the Thunder camp director has been TK.
You are correct about DB
Brian Pederson is the latest Thunder associate to go to Austin. He was the MTA North Director and did alot of work with the Thunder camps and was a past "player" from a couple of years ago. Maybe Djorn can open a pipeline to Austin for some more past Thunder people? How long has the Thunder website been down?
I'm not sure why you would want the staff from a failed organization? Is it just me or does experience or ineptitude rule the day in the soccer business if the MNThunder to Austin pipeline is created?
Abboud left the pro team in Aug after MTA failed to renew his academy contract, Djorn and Pederson left in Nov, Lagos just sent an email to the players that he is out, wishing everyone the best of luck with Dean the owner. Thunder are done, website is down, academy is left scrambling. Will the ex-Wings driven board stay the course with an elite system? Guys like Bellis, Moore, and Alberty must be pushing for it lest they return to Minnesota mediocrity as they've been riding the MA, MC, and DS coattails. What will the west families say now that the Thunder pro organization is no longer involved? Would they support a Bangu-type organization? Will MTA approach the NSC? The Minnesota Kings? Or will we see Bangu rise again? Interesting times.
10:21 - the issue with the Thunder wasn't the effort of the ability of many of the people, it had everything to do with the organiziation being woefully undercapitalized. as the expression goes "why throw the baby out with the bath water".
The Pro team is undercapitalized and aways has been. The League has not help their situation.
The Club has money management issues. If they charged everyone the fees as stated they would have not money issue at all. They are very good at not have rules or standards for financial aid. Some one (I think it is the man behind the curtain) determines who gets price breaks and free rides. Not all of these are based on financial need. I would speculate that MTA/Bangu don't even have forms to apply for financial aid. Ask us and we will decide how badly we want you. I think they are building a very shaky foundation. Until they start addressing that the club will always struggle financially.
written by a true outsider looking in.....
"I would speculate", "I think"...
thanks for all the facts
"I thought" it was hard to read (LOL) but decided to check a few things.
MTA does have a financial aid form on its web site under downloads.
It is interesting reading.
1) Looks like MTA West & MTA Elite determine financial aid separately.
2) Partical Payment. responsible adults shall attempt to pay a minimum of 25% of club registration.
3) Proof of Need. Here is were it gets shady....Proof of need can be the team manager & team coach co-writing a statement verifying need. Along with the exceptions rule ...Factors in "Proof of Need" are considerations for the MTA Financial Assistance Committee and are not intended as the only relevant criteria for awarding financial assistance when funds are limited.
So, MTA does have a form, the do have a criteria...kind of.
http://www.mnthunder.com/academy/downloads/MTA%20Financial%20Assistance%20App%200910.doc
Have to say, while my kid is not the best at thier age group we filled out the forms required and turned in the documents needed and we received a need based scholarship. No different from any CC, just seems to be the place our kid is happy playing with others who like to train and are committed as they are. Not sure what the big deal is?
it's only a big deal to those who just don't like MTA.
Or those paying for aid to those who do not meet a standard financial criteria. My son, plays for MTA. He loves the training and although it is a financial stress for us, we are willing to sacrifice to give him the opportunity. My big deal would be if aid is given to folks who make more money than our family. We are solid lower middle class. I don't expect anyone to provide opportunties for my son, if I can work, save or forgo vacations in order to provide that opportunity.
If it is financially based, your right it isn't any different than any CC, and I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. When it not financially based, everyone should have a problem with it.
Most often aid is given to families who meet the free lunch criteria or have several players in the club. Again not, based on skill. The form as I read it seems to leave the door open for providing aid to player/families not based on a families finances and not based of reliable documentation.
Does MTA have a sponsor who is picking up the tab for the aid? Most sponsors expect an accounting. Does MTA provided an accounting? Do their books get regularly audited? The last CC club I was involved with could and did.
For the love of God, why are you asking those questions on this blog? You can't seriously be looking for factual answers here. GO TALK TO SOMEONE IN MTA WITH MTA QUESTIONS.
wonder if all the parents ask these same questions when their kids go off to college....
Thanks who do you ask. Who are the board members? Do they have meetings? I never really thought of it until I looked at the form. I have heard many parents on the sidelines talk about aid, none of them seem to know who to ask or where to find these answers. All of them like to complain about it. Many are fearful that if they ask too many hard questions there kid won’t make the team next year. Part of the reason I brought it up on the blog, it hard to figure out whom to ask. And there seemed to be alot of MTA parents and other here. There is also some safety in anonymity. I didn’t think they were disrespectful questions, and were in response to Anon 9:36 & Anon 11:43.
The correlation between college and club soccer would be?
The correlation is that nobody in college really knows what scholarship levels the other players are receiving.
Thats the same situation in most club sports whether it's hockey, basketball, soccer etc...
Many families in athletic clubs don't want it to be known that they are on scholarship as they think it's embarrassing unlike in college where it's a positive to have an athletic scholarship.
I have news for you...
Kids and parents brag and posture.
Believe me, on a college team, most know who are the haves and have nots.
10:27,
Yes...college scholarship athletes and their parents brag, posture and exaggerate. You don't really know who is telling the truth and who is lying when it comes to college scholarships.
Getting a need based scholarship isn't something players or parents brag about in my experience as a coach and team manager in 2 different clubs. Most in fact are embarrassed about it and don't want it known by other team members and parents.
I'm the best player in the state. My parents can't afford and won't pay for my soccer expenses. I work at a restaurant to help pay for soccer. My team covers what I cannot afford.
When I play, my team wins more games. When we win more games, more college coaches come to watch our team. College coaches migrate to championship games. My teammates get offered college scholarships after being seen winning championships. The families covering my expenses are investing now to gain later. They are smrt, I score goal.
Don't compare college to kid club soccer. One is a business and the other is...oops
Kid clubs shouldn't be giving scholarships to anybody. You pay or you don't play. Club coaches don't get fired based on win loss record.
Humble Star...you are full of crap.
so poor kids don't get to play organized soccer?
Most "poor" kids have a chance to play organized soccer through public schools.
If that option isn't enough...
Then they should look as close to home as possible for a team.
Playing for a local "CC" will usually always be cheaper and more convenient.
public schools as in the 8 week high school season?
yea, and if you're poor (and better than 2:09's kid) don't go near that neighborhood. just be thankful someone donated a ball.....
Can we get back on topic? There are a couple of club threads on this blog for this stuff.
Before we move on, I am still trying to figure out the college, club soccer correlation.
College - Students get scholorships for academics, special skills, and financial aid. In return, they receive an education and receive the opportunity to earn more money throughout their lives.
Club Soccer- Seems as if some are saying families receive financial aid and scholorships because they ask and a club feels they need the player in order to win games. In return, they win some youth soccer games and learn how to play soccer. Very few young men receive athletic scholorships in soccer. In the last two years there have only been maybe one or two at most. Remember signing with a D1 or D2 schools does not mean you are receiving funds for school. If you were investing in soccer thinking it will help your son get on a college soccer team, you would be better off spending your money on a private school or a tutor.
So, when Humble Star said, “When I play, my team wins more games. When we win more games, more college coaches come to watch our team. College coaches migrate to championship games. My teammates get offered college scholarships after being seen winning championships. The families covering my expenses are investing now to gain later. They are smrt..." It is just not true. Humble Star may receive financial aid. I would like to hear of one young man out there that was offered a scholarship by a program who was interested in seeing the superstar on the team, but instead wanted your son more.
People need to remember soccer is a youth sport! It is discretionary spending for families. MTA I think at times forgets that.
From "Inside MN Soccer"...
"It has now been reported to IMS that Thunder President Manny Lagos sent an email to the players of the Thunder this past week that he is no longer with the organization."
"The organization boasted a 20-year history and was started by legendary Buzz Lagos now seems to be part of Minnesota sports history."
The Thunder with no Lagos?
Or, are we looking at no Thunder?
socmom - go to Inside MN Soccer at www.insidemnsoccer.com and you'll quickly get brought up to speed. Most likely no "Thunder" but a new team being owned and run by an entity that's part of NSC.
DB was also part of the Thunder-fiasco. Anyone with a brain can put 2 and 2 together. Mismanagement and lack of accountablility seemed to run rampant in that org for quite some time. I doubt the Aztecs will keep him around for long.
7:50 - please provide all the details of the mismanagement and lack of accountability as no one would be so reckless in making those accusations without some kind of verifiable inside information.
Here's an example of mismanagement: Deciding to have home games at NSC and funding the renovation of NSC. While the NSC upgrades are a great improvement, the NSC location is not going to sell tickets. It never has and it never will for minor league soccer. A lot of money was wasted in improving that stadium.
Location Location Location.
For soccer to sell in Minnesota, it needs to be convenient. Neither our minority groups nor our south-suburb soccer moms will travel to Blaine on your average game night. The field needs to be in Minneapolis or St. Paul for it to have a chance. This has been obvious since the early-90s.
10:57 - so where do you suggest they play that can accomodate in excess of 5 thousand people (that is not a football field with soccer lines) and already exists?
It's not as simple as it sounds. Put it downtown and it is no longer convenient for those in the suburbs, put it in Blaine and it is not convenient for the folks you mentioned.
They tried the "Jimmy" at I94 & Lexington but that failed worse than NSC and the higher level minor leagues frown on mulit-lined football fields.
Here's the link to a BQ article on Thunder attendance.
He has an easy to read graphic charting attendance from 96-09.
http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/09/28/minnesota-thunder-attendance-%E2%80%93-by-the-numbers/
2003, the last year at the NSC before moving to the Jimmy, seems to be the peak year.
Reckless...don't you mean train reck? What planet are you from?
Loosing team too many years in a row to count.
Sliding attendance.
Sliding level of play, while most soccer in the US improved.
Massive decline in talent on the field.
Mediocre/poor camps and clinics.
Gimekee/embarassing marketing.
Loss of reputable advertising.
Fiasco with youth academy.
Going bankrupt and leaving a wake of debt and destruction.
I think that about sums it up.
I'll agree with most of the last poster, save for the fiasco with the youth academy. Seems to me if you believe that was the wrong vision, you go against the philosophy of most every other pro club in the world.
nickname for the new nsc
THE MINNESOTA LAGOS SOCCER TEAM
thats TEAM !
not club,FC,AC, UNITED, ACADEMY, nor any european sounding nonsense ,ESPECIALLY NOT some B S like MANCHESTER WEST
ALL GAMES , SUNDAYS AT 6
blaine is best soccer moms don't want to go watch in a working class london neighborhood ,nor
do they want the noise from latin league horns. time for the sophmoronic clouds to dissipate,they're not part of the show!!!!!!!
L C
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My dd has attended quit a few of the MTA clinics and they have all been excellent.
Well, at least MTA has enough disposable income to get involved in litigation...
http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/2009/12/16/us-club-soccer-grievance-against-usys-mysa-wysa-ndysa-will-be-heard-on-thursday/
9:14,
The suit was filed by US Club Soccer and all expenses will be paid by that organization.
MTA will incur no costs associated with this action.
9:19 - folks like 9:14 just can't help themselves!
It's like MTA is an itch that must be scratched......
No, a mosquito that must be squished
another scratch from 11:45.
another meaningless, immature comment from 11:50
Envy and jealousy of another club isn't meaningless and immature behavior?
Nothing else to do 12:24?
That lawsuit is the biggest joke I've ever heard of . . . if you read the darn thing, courtesy of IMS (thanks), there are some valid point regarding some minor infractions occurring in the south part of the US. But the funny thing is that USClub soccer is accusing those entities of doing the exact same thing that they do as a routine part of business - overcharging for supplemental insurance. There is a cap as to how much can be charged and I believe Tennessee/SC have been in violation of that. So USClub better be prepared to explain their own actions which they deem as being so unfair. Finally, the part involving MTA is really an NSC problem, but it would look bad for an entity that uses state dollars to be suing non-profits at a time of budget issues. But from an insurance point of view (my vocation), this is a ridiculous claim that any body must insure something over which they have zero control. If you don't sanction it, you shouldn't have to provide insurance for it and the insurance execs are on the list to testify. It won't take a long for the ludicrousness of this suit to be exposed. Although in the soccer world, you never know . . . they have some of the oddest grievance procedures and implementation of those procedures. The statistics on attendance at NSC events don't bare out their claims of financial impacts caused by the injustice they perceive. Hey, NSC . . . get your s*^t together and figure out if the reason for declining attractiveness in your top event it because you don't know how to properly care for fields, you charge way too much for use of those rotten fields, and thumbing your nose at the largest youth soccer organization in the state isn't good for business. Reminder to all who think MYSA is the ogre here . . . they offered to sanction every event with the exception of USA Cup events, so any fault in the other NSC events should be placed with NSC. This is not to say that MYSA handled this all correctly, but definitely within the guidelines of insurance policies that are standard throughout the industry for youth athletic organizations. I hope the arbitrator forces USClub to pay fees for both sides for bring a frivolous suit.
AAnon 4:00,
Am I missing something? I don't see the lawsuit on IMS site. I only see an article discussing the lawsuit.
Starting a youth academy, merging in existing clubs was not the error. The error was how it was planned, sold to MYSA and executed. Bangu and Wings *could have* rolled into a youth academy with the Thunder and kept MYSA sponsorship and support. The Thunder were just to arrogant and short sighted.
7:17 Surely you meant MYSA was just to arrogant and short sighted. And yes I called you Shirley.
4:13 I believe you can get a copy from BQ's previous article on IMS, the MTA Academy website, and probably USClub's website, although I only know for certain about the first option.
http://www.usclubsoccer.org/Files/US%20Club%20Soccer%20Grievance%20and%20Complaint%20-%20August%202009.pdf
That link provided by IMS. Ya know, I don't generally think IMS is a very good source, but BQ seems to be on top of this story, with his own bias, of course.
My favorite phrase in that blog is "IMS has learned" . . . like some sort of investigative journalism has taken place, when it should read: IMS has read someone else's work and is copying it here. It's not breaking news when someone else does the leg work and publishes first.
gee 8:01 cut the guy a break. He runs an informative FREE (I repeat FREE) blog. His work on the whole TOA-NSAL/USL has been outstanding. Hours and hours of volunteer time, energy, and money. Personally I think most of his views are pretty much down the center. This isn't CBS News vs. Fox and which side either falls on.
What's the expression - "look a gift horse in the mouth"?
8:01 Here, then he should quick touting himself as anything more than that.
and when has he? When he says "IMS has learned"? If that's what's got your knickers in a bunch this am, then you might want to try decaf.
OK, maybe I am being a bit hard on him . . . I don't know him enough to say what his goals are, but I think he portrays himself as being more 'professional' in his journalism than he is. Free does beg the phrase that "you get what you pay for". Frankly, if it were just a little better source for news, I'd pay something for it.
@10:58 - You should read BQ's stuff a bit more regularly. He's pretty open to admitting his shortcomings as a "journalist." Soccer America has enough respect in his stuff though to link to and reprint his posts in their daily emails from time to time, so he's got something going for him.
soccer??? soccer? we talkin soccer?
10:03 Yes, MYSA was arrogant as well. But the Thunder, with more effective management, would have found a way to make it work.
10:58 If you read WCCO.com (horrible journalism), Star Tribune.com or .paper (horrible journalism), CNN.com (bad journalism), you are reading significantly lower quality material.
BQ admits that he is a bit biased and/or naive at times. That makes him better than any of the trash on local tv or major local news web sites. The guy works hard and is a decent investigative writer.
4:00 your are dead wrong about sanctioning and insurance (regardless of your vocation.) They are not tied together. MYSA does not allow teams to buy their own insurance to be used in USYSA events, they required the USSF affiliattion for youth soccer to be the provider. Thus any USSF governed organization, offering the same set of services, should be services by the policy.
In the past US Club accepted proof of insurance from USYSA. They did not require teams to buy additional insurance. This certainly could have changed over the past few years.
The arbitrator will hold up parts of the law suite and direct USYSA/MYSA to accept teams that are primarily registered with US Club...and their insurance.
What is this Kings FC team? They are going to be in the NPSL. Is this team going to be good? I heard a lot of X PDL Thunder player were going to try-out.
Anyone have any news?
This "Kings FC " is hoping to form a team in the NPSL league however Minnesota already has a team in that league, the Twin Stars.
The quality of play is good but in my opinion not much better than the top tier of teams playing in the MASL 1st Division.
I doubt this team will actually come to existence.
My understanding of the Kings FC, is that it will be team of mostly college age men that do not get paid, and therefore keep their eligibility for college teams. The administration feels they will be competitive with USL level teams...
I checked out the tryout, and am guessing there were players that were already on a "roster" that were not at the tryout. There were a few terrific players and some average players.
Good luck, hope it works out!
I saw the Twin Stars play early last year. I thought they were out of shape, but somewhat expected given it was earily May. All in all they were not very impressive.
Soccer is dead in Minnesota.
I argue that it is stillborn, it was never alive.
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Who runs this blog?
DIVISION 2 PROFESSIONAL LEAGUE TO OPERATE IN 2010
U.S. Soccer Will Oversee Two Conference League
The USL Conference will include teams from Austin, Minnesota, Portland, Puerto Rico, Rochester and Tampa Bay. The NASL Conference will consist of teams from Baltimore, Carolina, Miami, Montreal, St. Louis and Vancouver.
The game is not dead as some of you wished. Maybe the Thunder club will disappear but a new team D2 will be created in MN.
It was about time the US Soccer stepped up the plate to promote not only youth sports but also pro sports giving lots of kids a chance to move from youth to college to pro.
Good job US soccer!!!
Big soccer tournament in Africa...Togo team gets ambushed and shot up. A few players killed and team heads for the hills.U.S wanna play in Africa? Only in soccer does this happen.
9:10, they can award franchises all they want. Someone has to buy in, put up some serious money and have a go. They are also going to have to deal with the PR.
This team is doomed from the start. Owned by a non profit with no additional staff and no additional compensation to the National sports center staff who now are going to run a professional soccer team "in their spare time" Yea good luck with that. I know many have their hearts in the right place here but the team will be competing against profit/success driven entities. NSC should focus on running their youth tournaments and getting exibition games.
Another reason MN soccer struggles, someone who means well going into a venture that is way over their heads.
wrong - Manny Lagos has already been hired as Director of Soccer Operations with more staff to follow.
Another reason MN soccer struggles, someone who doesn't have all the facts poisoning other's efforts with inaccurate posts.
The NSC hasn't done too bad for itself up to this point.
Maybe they will make a go of it with a D2 team.
You know I would volunteer to help them if they asked for help. If they need help in the office or in sales, I'd be more than happy to volunteer some time. I have office skills, I would need some help with the sales end of things but would be willing to learn. When it comes to game days, again I'd be more than happy to help them out. I think alot of us would.
South Africa is a lot different than what happened in the case. I heard the same thing and the rest of Africa is not developed as south Africa. There should not be much to worry about.
South Africa has a cracy crime rate
I want not acquiesce in on it. I assume precise post. Particularly the designation attracted me to study the unscathed story.
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www.mnthunderacademy.org
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Shouldn't we retitle this thread: NSC MN "Stars", USSF, NASL ?
We should
I like the guy trying to advertise video games on a soccer website. But I haven't looked at this website in so long cause nothing has changed and it still hasn't. This always gave me a needed 5 minute break from work.
Come to the Kings tryout Saturday February 27th. Looking for good futbolers to take on the nations top talent.
7:32
Nothing's changed?
The Thunder have come and gone.
A different owner, team, coach, and league, are in place.
Players should follow.
I'd say that's something new.
who runs this blog?
So far, the new NSC MN Stars have signed Johnny Menyongar & Andrei Gotsmanov.
Hey Mn Futbol, wake up! We need a new thread.
Soccer in Minnesota is dead.
not dead just new blood needed
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Why does the author of this blog not delete posts like 17/2/10 8:13 PM?
the "rodent" (whoever he/she may be) is still hybernating
Johnny Menyongar! Sweet! He is the best attacker to ever play for the Thunder. I used to love him back in the day. He has to be border line old though. Maybe I am wrong.
Johnny Menyongar! Sweet! He is the best attacker to ever play for the Thunder. I used to love him back in the day. He has to be border line old though. Maybe I am wrong.
Stick a fork in MTA. Their progressive leader is gone, their pro team affiliation is gone, and too many other clubs are now offering what the academy offers at the younger age groups. MTA's current teams will have success, but they club will be gone in 5 years as those teams move out of the youth ranks. There is no south, the north is horrible, the west is, well, the Wings, a club that was dying before Bangu saved them. The only program left is the east, but even with MA's mentoree at the helm, there is too much going on in Woodbury, St Croix, and even Cottage Grove to continue to attract the numbers and the talent that MA pooled.
The boys side may be saved if US Dev Academy status is granted, but with guys like Zahl and Bellis running the boys, there is no enough experienced guidance to adequately serve the talent MN can produce.
Thanks to Bangu/MTA/MA/Storlien/Cook for spurring the rest of the clubs on, but we're entering a new era.
might be spot on 9:19, but if so then IMO it will be too bad that all the talent (which continues to grow in quantity/quality) will never be consolidated but based on your analysis will be scattered across the metro on countless teams. One of the goals of consolidating talent (and I don't care if its at MTA or any other club) is training and challenging yourself against the best day in-day out at practice is one of the proven ways for those players to get better. No consolidated talent also virtually guarantees no success at regionals. You'll end up with "stars" on teams, but never a "star team".
As long as MTA is part of the ECNL on the girls side, that will always be a magnet for all the DI chasing parents and their DD's.
MTA will get USSF Academy status along with SSM within the next year or two.
This will further consolidate the talent at their club and almost permanently cement their position as THE elite club in the state because they are already the only Minnesota club with ECNL status.
You can hope that it falls apart but I doubt it will happen. You can disparage people like Zahl and Bellis etc (as others have been doing for years and they keep having success) but those two along with other staff in the club are among the very best in the area.
If you want to play free soccer this summer against the top competition in the nation come to the Kings FC tryout this Saturday February 27.
Many think RZ needs to be slapped up and/or kicked out 12:51, so don't put him on same pedestal as Bellis.
Come on people, if you don't like someone's coaching choices, don't pretend with generalizations just go somewhere else.
Saying someone needs to be slapped up is childish at best, be civil, and act somewhere near your age.
1:15 If you don't like it, you get lost!
C'mon, if you praise someone on this blog, expect criticism.
There will always be disgruntled parents who will slam a coach or coaching director if their kid doesn't make a team or doesn't become a starter.
It's pretty obvious that is the case with many who slam coaches on this blog.
I'm sick of reading about "consolidating talent" and "winning at regionals." It's just all about egocentric thinking.
2:49 so?
Another rule to be added: NO SLAMMING,CRITICIZING OR HURTING THE FEELINGS OF COACHES AND COACHING DIRECTORS ON THIS BLOG.
2:52 - you're right, while we are at it all clubs should not be allowed to have "A" and "B" teams (or whatever definition might be used to signify the top team versus the other teams). That would completely eliminate "consolidating talent".
It's funny, the same folks who think it's acceptable at the club level (since their kids on the top team) frown on it from a citywide or state level.
So, 3:32- you don't believe that people who don't quite have the skill to make an "A" team don't deserve to:
1) make their own decisions
2) have access to a professional structure that comes with quality programs
3) have access to quality coaches
4) have the ability to try and work their way up to the "A" team
in short, it appears as though you want some soccer czar to determine where parents can and can not take their kids to play. People vote with their feet and money. If there was no merit in the system the way it is, clubs would not be able to afford to keep these "B" teams going financially.
3:32 PM - you are too narrow focused.
I don't know what makes me laugh more - the fact that some think guys like Zahl or Bellis have any clue about truly elite-level boys development, or how sheerly below-average everything MTA has become without MA.
Has anyone seen the Thunder's new website? Or the promotion of their programs? How about the fantastic ad in the latest issue of the Soccer Times? What a complete joke. No one needs fear that club from here on out. Too many people are offering as good if not better development opportunities at a fraction of the cost at the younger age groups and gone are the days when families will flock to a banner of a so called elite club. 5 years and this club is done.
Take a poll of the MTA boys families in the elite program and you'll find a resounding voice of Zahl's incompetence. Bellis hasn't done anything in Minnesota soccer, can't find success at the college level, and has been given a white team. Lots of confidence in that leader. Throw in the complete arrogance of many of the MTAers and they remain on an island. Guys like this are riding on the coattails of guys like MA, Amos, and Manny who forced the issue of MTA with the sole goal of helping the elite boys program in this state. MA is gone, Amos is gone, and Manny is gone (from the youth game). There are still a few good boys coaches involved but not in any position to make impactful decisions regarding the long-term vision of the program. I agree with the previous poster - stick a fork in the program. Thanks for getting the rest of us kick-started, but my club for one can offer a better opportunity for our top level players looking for quality training with like-minded teammates in an environment that doesn't include driving all over the Twin Cities for training, nor do we have to pay for 6 directors, nor do we have to pay for an over-abundance of older players' scholarships. Plus we can market better =-).
Can you tell I'm not very sad to see the elite club fade away? I'd like to see a new elite club started. One that forms teams at U15 for the ECNL and USDSA. Work with CCs but don't work against them at the U14 and below age groups. Build trust and respect. Might work...
I think MTA will find some way to survive, if not thrive. There is always a market for choices. MTA just needs to make sure that they provide what they promote to provide. Choice is good.
917 what you are suggesting is exactly what Bangu formerly did. That is form high level teams at the U15 an older groups. They were roundly criticized for stealing players and raiding teams. They also were attacked because they had no youth program or teams and did not develop their own players. Some people may feel as you do, but more I think do not want an "elite" club of any kind to exist.
12:29 I think people would be OK with elite clubs that play primarily ouside of MYSA.
Other than State Cup those teams did play outside of MYSA.
Still no MTA or Shattuck in the ECNL! What up wid dat?
MILWAUKEE, Wis. (March 3, 2010) From nearly 60 clubs that applied for membership, the ECNL Board of Directors recommended 12 new clubs for membership in the Elite Clubs National League (ECNL). The ECNL member clubs approved these recommendations, increasing the number of member clubs to 52 for the 2010-11 season.
The clubs granted membership for the 2010-11 season are:
Carmel United (Ind.)
DeAnza Force (Calif.)
FC Bucks (Pa.)
KCFC (Kan.)
Michigan Hawks
Real So Cal (Calif.)
San Diego Surf (Calif.)
Scorpions SC (Mass.)
Slammers FC (Calif.)
Utah Avalanche
Varder (Mich.)
Washington Premier F.C.
???? MTA's been in the ECNL from Day 1. Are you confusing this with the USSF Development Academy on the boys side?
Bully you. Need to call names, do-do brain? Make you feel less fat? Is dat you waist size or IQ? ahahahahahahaha. Good one.
Does anybody on this blog know what they are talking about?
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