With the high school season over, many MN soccer fans are turning their attention to the upcoming club season. While travel budgets may be smaller with the economic down turn, may team are still planning a full winter season of tournaments.
Is it better to be in the Elite Club National League or not? Two teams playing in the U17 Final Four Showcase. According to silly Got Soccer Rankings.
Eden Prairie Challenge SC 93 Red Natl rank 669 #14 TXS (off site) North OKC OFC 93 Natl rank 377 330pm Sat (off site) NSA Storm Natl rank 156 game time 9pm Sat. night
MTA (one game each day and main fields) Atlanta Fire Natl rank 321 BUSA AL State Champ Natl rank 104 CESA NC State Champ Natl rank 66
My take MTA way better teams to play. MTA all three games on the main complex and EP two games off the main complex. EP two games in one day and a Saturday night game at 9pm, I am sure a lot of coaches will be at that one.
Man, you guys are hard to please. Your in the ECNL, scouts/coaches will come. The job now is promoting your kids, its up to you to get the coaches to come watch YOUR games. its NOT important that you play the 66th best team or the 2nd best team. The imporant thing is, your in the league while there are A LOT of other clubs and teams that want to be but are kept out. Stop your crying.
Now, since your all saying we are ONLY playing these so so teams, you just put the pressure on your teams to win out. The jury is out on that.
Traveling is a waste of time and money. The best way to be seen is to attend a few camps of coaches (teams) you are interested in. Don't expect your coach to help you get recruited. It's up to you.
8:27 you are absolutely correct. You need to contact the coaches, send them your schedule and show interest in their program. Most college coaches will not look at a player if they have not been contacted beforehand. Camps are very valuable to meet college coaches as they will get to know the PLayer as a person since they will work with them for 4 - 5 days straight.
9:12- you are partially correct- but I think you are also very wrong. The head coaches will only work with select players. Don't expect that by paying your $400 for the University of X Camp that it means that Univ head coach will work with your kid. Doesn't always happen- example: Univ of Kansas Camp- daughter was coached by William Jewell College head coach.
Does your club have college coaches come to friendlies, home league games, or practice sessions? If not, ask them why not, other clubs are. This is a great way to be seen also.
Regarding the initial question- don't be stupid. Even though ECNL is not at the "main complex", college coaches will be in attendance. It IS the top league in the country. Trust that the games MTA will play will give them a challenge. How about you beat these teams first and then crow about how lousy they are? If the post was made by an EP parent trying to make sour grapes taste better- win the key games and earn your way to the recognition you seek.
Traveling to out of state tournaments is a great experience for the kids and often their families. If the goal is to get that big scholorship by attending out of state tournaments you are correct, they are wasting their time and money, but, if the goal is to create an "experience" for your team then traveling out of state is a great opportunity for that team to have a fun and rewarding experience. My kids have traveled several times over the past few years and the "experience" has been wonderful for them, their team and our whole family.
8:21, I guess Im somewhat confused..Traveling is wonderful for your whole family?? Super, but, what is this about, for the family to go out and have fun, or, is it suppose to be about your player?? Good Mighty. My dd plays college, and its safe to say, that she traveled by herself most of the time without Mommy and Daddy. Unless your loaded, and this competitive soccer is just a weekend get away for the family. Then super. If this is the case, then why travel, seems you can afford to send her anywhere anyway.
Anoy 9:03 AM, ECNL is not a US Youth Soccer sanction league thus they can not partipate in US Youth Soccer National Championship series which includes State Cup
If this is true, 2:38- then how does the MTA U17 girls team get into State Cup? You really don't think that they will sit it out, do you?
My guess is that there is a loophole with US Club and USYS both being sanctioned by the US Soccer Federation. I won't hold my breath that MN Youth Soccer Association will get it right, however. They can't even interpret their own rules correctly. Good luck.
MTA U15, U16 and U17 as well as Shattuck U18 will have to play MYSA this spring to play state cup, none of them are in MRL.
Maybe they all play in the same U18C1 league since it is self select or maybe the MTA teams choose to play MYSA Premier think they can since they earned MRL premier league spots.
When will MYSA post State Cup info so teams have a general idea of dates, Looks like the ECNL play over memorial day weekend wonder if MYSA plan to schedule state cup during that weekend this year.
Wish MYSA could get the dates out early so teams can make plans for the spring.
9:18AM - The State Cup dates have been posted on the MYSA site for ages. Open your eyes! April 23 - May 23, 2010. Now go and make your plans for the spring.
MTA teams are playing U19 C3. The 16s, 17s, 18s, and 19s, are all playing in that league. I think 19 white team. A few others. Good idea for these teams as they would play each other in friendlies and now get the tickets to compete at State Cup. Good plan MTA.
10:19 thats a little negative. Traveling for us is NOT about earning a scholorship to a major college. I am fully commited to continuing my 529 deposits :) We have had one trip that the whole family attended and several that only Mom or I attended and a few that my daughter attended with another responsible adult. I firmly believe my daughter has grown in a positive way because of the opportunity she has had to get outside of the MN soccer scene,(we still play and enjoy the MN league). She plays MRL and has attended several other tournaments over the years and I feel her team has benefited because of the step up in competition and seeing and adapting to the different styles of play prevalent in the different regions of the country. Do what you want, for each their own, I won't judge you for not finding value maybe you should consider what I say the benefits are, keep an open mind and if the opportunity arises give it a try.
Oh, by the way, I am not planning on feeling bad about truely loving any chance I can get to watch my kids play , I do really enjoy watching them and plan to continue as long as I am able.
SSM U-17 girls lose all three in CA. this weekend. Losing 0-3, 3-5, and 0-2. This seems somewhat surprising since they were involved in the "B" (gold) pool.
No horse in the race but the Surf cup gold flights have very good teams in them based got soccer rankings. Sure the young SSm team had a good experience.
6:09- atleast they are playing somewhere meaningful- I can tell you that there were over 100 coaches who watched the SSM U17s play over the last two days.
They did not, as a team, play well at all. As a matter of fact, these were the worst games I have seen this team play in three years.
BTW- Congratulations to #10 and her dad- I am happy that she has proven the wise idiots on this blog wrong. She is a freshman starter on a team going to the final 8.
10:09- I didn't spend any more for my child to travel to SoCal than if they had stayed and played St Croix in the dome. I didn't say that individual players didn't have decent performances, I said that they didn't play well as a team. So, I am sure there will be some good that comes from these games. Most of the Big 12, Big Ten, WAC, and PAC Ten were represented. Add that to many mid-majors and it equated to more coaches than I have ever seen in one place.
7:48 My point is it is disapointing to see results like this from what I consider to be one of MN's better teams. I hoped this team was moving towards better showings as they got more used to playing higher levels of competition. Poor MRL showing followed by an improved imnproved performance at a strong regional tournament but then the big let down in CA. Glad to hear personal goals were met by having all of the coaches see the TEAM play. Maybe that was the problem?
BTW: Only 3 MN girls/womens teams are rated in the top 50 nationally by Gotsoccer: U-14 DakotaRev Rampage # 40 U-16 MTA Elite Blue # 22 U-19 MTW 91 Premier # 10
All three of these teams had MRL and/or Major Tournament (out of state) success. All of these teams played against teams from other states with much higher point totals.
maybe they just aren't that good. what was this "strong" regional tournament that they went to? don't be confused by the Eclipse (#185) & Scott Gallagher #273) teams as you can see they are not their top squads. they also tied a nebraska squad (#255). not trying to be harsh, but honest.
here you go again, putting winning in front of development. its the same ole thing year in and year out. Gotta win win win. Scouts are NOT looking at teams, they are looking at players!!! A college is NOT going to recruit a team, they are there to watch players playing. No matter if a player is on a great team or not. Look at all the great players playing for colleges that are not from State Cup championship teams. DUH!!
I think Shattuck is getting a name with in the college coaching circles...They have produced a few players doing very well for their colleges. Bunbury at Akron to name 1, Cline at UCLA to name another. I agree with 10:45..colleges are not recruiting teams. They know what type of training these players are getting at Shattuck. The could care less about the W/L record.
lol - our team doesn't do well then it's all about "development". when they did well at the Metro tournament all we heard about was how good the team was getting. hate to break it too you, but there isn't another CC currently at SSM on the girls side and don't see one on the horizon. not sure how many RII ODP girls are currently on the girls side.
Really? I know the posters on this site are known more for their hate and ignorance than soccer insight, but still, I would have thought even the most hateful, ignorant soccer dad/mom (10:55!) would know better to judge any team based upon their performance in November.
November is when coaches get a look at their team and decide what they need to work on over the winter.
Doesn't matter if you are talking about SSM, MTA/Bangu, Woodbury, EP, or Dakota Rev - it is a mistake to judge a team on any tournament performance before spring tourneys.
Now I'm getting confused reading all these posts. One states it's all about not judging tournament performance this early One states the only thing scouts look at are players and not the team They would appear to all be from pro SSM folks So is it all about the team or the individual as I was always taught in soccer it's tough to have one without the other (maybe what 8:29 alluded to was accurate).
1:34 - those are not mutually exclusive options. In my view 8:29 was wrong in that he or she made the error of judging a team based upon results in November.
I am not pro-SSM or pro-MTA (also not mutually exclusive options, by the way).
Let me break it down in terms you may be able to understand without getting confused (your words).
The team's coach should evaluate individuals during tournament play in November in order to design training to maximize the team's potential.
However, people who are not even at the game should not make the mistake of judging a team (good or not) based upon the scores of a game - especially when the only tool they have to evaluate the competition is a meaningless numerical ranking.
This is as true of good results as bad results, though I tend to be more tolerant of proud parents who were at the game bragging about positive results than I am of hateful/ignorant parents sitting at home ignorantly using scores and rankings to justify their hate. Maybe that's just me.
I just knew once the blog site opened up a Club thread, it would turn nasty. Its 34 post, and already people are after meat about so and so club, so and so players etc.
You're right 8:21- and without the guts to put forth what club they put their faith/money into. I find it interesting that people want to attack another club only when they don't have to state their loyalties.
First there was the Kallman sisters at the UofM and now it looks like there is going to be the Price sisters who are both going to be Golden Gophers. Congrats to BP. Great player-great kid.
MA used very poor judgement, pubicly acknowledged & apologized for his actions and then accepted his punishment.
As long as the MTA directors allow him to coach, his players & their parents should decide whether they want him to coach, not those of us not directly affected.
MA coaching one MTA team does not make him "MTA" as he is no longer a director. As many of MA's players would tell you, his coaching/teaching skills over the past 10+ years have benefited many young players & they still have a lot of respect for him.
Man, I thought this was a blog for discussing girls club soccer, now some payton place. leave the dude alone. Let him live in his little own world and let the dude blog on his site. just remember, its a very big world out there.
If MTA is larger than MA, then why did MTA management allow him to continue to coach?
The decision to keep him is a bad reflection on the organization as a whole and reflects poor judgment and bad leadership on MTA management. To say that "his players & their parents should decide whether they want him to coach" is a joke. Yes, management should listen to parent/player views, but parents/players don't run the organization and the organization should be larger than MA and his team.
What punishment did MA "actually" receive? He still coaches his precious girls team and is now a HS coach.
Question - What do Sarah Palin, the Keene family (of baloon boy fame)and MA have in common with Tinkerbell (of Peter Pan fame)?
Answer - They all need constant attention in order to thrive. Remember when you had to clap for Tinkerbell to keep her alive? Same deal with the others.
My God. Why back to MA? Some of you can't get past the past. MA has nothing to do with MTA save coaching a team. Keep shooting arrows at MTA and keep trying to bring them down. This one misses its mark by a long shot.
9:21/11:39/11:39 - hopefully each of you (or maybe just one of you since this could all be one person) can answer this...... are you really looking for answers to your questions or is the goal just to like on cue lob this out and highlight his acknowledged mistakes?
Maybe you can answer this question for me.......if he's not coaching your daughter, you most likely have no contact with anything he does - why do you care?
11:39 am My understanding was that the team did get to decide whether they would keep him on to coach or not. Even if that isn't true and you had a daughter on this team, you are free to go to another team to play. MTA does not have a monopoly. There are other options if MTA (or a particular coach) makes a CC a better choice for you. MTA offers a product, and you can choose whether you want to pay for that product, or select another option that may be easier on your wallet.
Yes, I would like to see an answer. The questions are directed more to the competence of MTA than MA himself. I care because I pay fees to MTA. Why do you care? You can always start a different topic.
1:25 - such a bunch of BS. If you have a question for the leadership of MTA, then why not ask it directly to them instead of here on a public blog. We all know you aren't looking for a public response, but pat yourself on the back for raking the muck - mission accomplished!!
Agreed. Anyone questioning MTA leadership should not come on here looking for informed answers.
Mark has been approached my a number of clubs interested in what he has to offer now that MTA fired him. Some people can't get past the fact that the guy has moved forward like a true man from the incident and continues to find success with coaching, his company, etc. It will be interesting to see what he gets involved with next from a club standpoint, if he chooses to get involved again at all.
lol - look at the last three posts, it's almost like if no one fights back he/she fires another one across the bow almost exactly ONE HOUR later!!! Another practical use for your Blackberry/Palm Pilot - program it to remind you to send out another post on an hourly basis. it's funnier to just sit back and chuckle.
What good are the MYSA/USYSA sanctions against him if MTA chooses to not abide by them? He is not supposed to be coaching- where is MYSA with their penalties to MTA?
Was he not sanctioned from coaching under USYSA for one year? I was not under the impression that it was only for State Cup, he essentially got his coaches card revoked. He CN NOT be on the sidelines for any games, and if any kids get injured with him coaching the USYSA insurance does not apply.
Oh, you're so concerned about the players, aren't you. How thoughtful.
I'll try and type s-l-o-w-l-y for the thick-headed blogger(s) on this site and reiterate what some others with sense have already posted. Read closely. If you have a problem with MTA go talk to MTA. If you have a problem with MYSA go talk to MYSA. If you don't have the balls to do something like that in person, hide behind an anon name on this blog and continue to post your loser posts.
I was told by a reliable source that MYSA sanctions against MA applied only to State Cup and the national championship series. That's all that I know. If you need more info go ask MA or someone at MYSA.
I think I was the one who started the negativity with my original post anout the SSM girls losing all three in CA. After re reading it I can see how it was recieved as very negative. I really was not intending for the interpretation being that I was taking a shot at the team. I was truely surprised that the team results were not better. I do agree the "B" pool was very strong and losing three against that level of competition is not necessarily a bad showing.
9:36 It would not have mattered to this group. All this talk (positive or negative) about MA in a post on Girls Club Soccer just reinforces how much influence he has had (good or bad) on girls youth soccer in this state. I think it is hilarious that his detractors keep his name in the fore front and give him free advertising for his other businesses by continuing to mention him in this blog. People new to the blog go out and Google him to see who this guy is because he must have a great impact on girls soccer when every other post includes his initials.
Yes - teams heading down to TX for the College Cup this weekend and then Disney at the end of the month (don't know who all is going). Not sure who's going to the Orange Classic in FL.
SCV U16G & TCF U18G (playing in U19 bracket) in the Orange Classic MTA U15G, U16G, U17G and EP United U17G at the College Cup this weekend Good luck to all and safe travels!
U13 - MTA and then a bit of a drop to either Prior Lake or Tonka? TCF? MTA white? U14 - EP, MTA, DREV U15 - BVL, MTA ??? U16 - MTA, MTA, ??? U17 - WAYZ, EP, MTA, SSM U18 - WDB and SSM (quite a drop from there) Just my humble opinion. I listed the '08 State Cup champs first although at a couple of age groups who is best will be deeply discussed.
1:52 here, wrong 3:04. like 12:09 just trying to move this thread in a different direction. i didn't rank the teams 1-2-3 and purposely gave credit to the reigning champs.
That would take all the fun out of it. New topics or old topics with different twists will always develop, as they do in any new soccer season. Some problems never seem to go away or get fixed.
MTA ECNL teams are competing this weekend at College Station for the first time. It will be interesting to see how they do against elite girls clubs in the nation.
Friday U15 vs Lone Star SC U16 vs San Juan SC U17 vs Birmingham United
Saturday U15 vs FC Delco U16 vs Charlotte SC U17 vs Atlanta Fire United
Sunday U15 vs Solar 95 U16 vs West Coast FC U17 vs CESA Premier
Disney showcase is coming up. This year there will be USYS national league teams, ECNL teams, and other top teams in the nation competing in 3 flights: showcase, predator, and copa. Showcase will include USYS national league teams and ECNL Challenge A teams. Predator will include ECNL Challenge B teams.
Accepted MN teams: U15 - None U16 - MTA White - Predator flight U17 - Eden Prairie - Copa flight U17 - Wayata - Copa flight U18 - Woodbury - Showcase flight
I am somewhere in between 1:01 and 4:58. Woodbury is a solid, athletic and skilled team but I doubt anyone who knew soccer would say it was one of the best teams in the nation! Wdby will probably not sweep their flight. They are playing the defending Disney showcase champion plus 2 other very solid teams. They should be great games and I am glad to see them finally get into the flight where they belong. Now their issue will be keeping everyone healthy - they have a small roster to begin with. Good luck to all the MN teams.
I guess it all depends on what you define as "best teams in the nation". There are thousands of U18 girls teams in the nation, so would top 50 equate to "best teams"? top 40? top 30? Based on their record, they aren't top 20, but even if we all agree they are in the top 50, top 40, or better than that is an accomplishment to be proud of. Good luck to all the girls and stay warm.
5:38- did your child graduate in about 2007? Sure sounds like it. Why not move on to another sport other than youth soccer? Find something that Minnesota is on the rise with.
ECNL games weren't lower or higher bracket from my understanding because all teams are in the same league. It was just Group A & Group B for scheduling purposes.
Unless things have changed this is from the ECNL website: "Each age group will be split into two flights (Challenge A and Challenge B) based on team strength, and games within each flight will be based on geographical location in order to minimize the number of games teams play against opponents from the same region."
From US Club Website: Each age group will be split into two different flgihts (Challenge A and Challenge B) based on team strength, and games within each flight will be based on geographical location in order to minimize the number of games teams play against opponents from the same region.
Any validity to the rumor of the status of the Thunder South academy? Rumor has it they are going to fold the teams in the South and just have a training academy.
MTA/Bangu has never "found it's legs" in the south. My guess is that is largely due to the stronger club competition in the south ie: Burnsville,Valley United (boys side) Dakota Rev ( girls side) and the fact that they have typically tried to pluck the talent they did get in the south and play those kids in the east where they have had several real strong teams.
Either way an MTA training academy makes sense, teams or no teams. Not a lot of kids leave for MTA until later in their ages. Probably would be a good thing. That was the original plan back when Bangu was looking to merge. Must have found a merging partner. Any academy setting is better than the parent coaches in Lakeville, Eagan, and Bloomington. Sounds interesting. Anyhow look how many Lakeville kids are part of MTA already. When my DD went back to her CC from bangu she was one of the best on the team so if they build it and we had a younger daughter, we'd go.
Valley United is at the end of their run on the boys side. Rev is gaining steam with some younger teams but their 13's are so weak they're playing their 12's up to earn the premier spot. Rev is the best in the south on the Girls side other than BRNs 15's
10:21 It is not uncommon for any team to have a talented player or two play up to a team of a higher age level for a variety of reasons. I know of many teams who have a player who is technically of a lower age group "play up". Often this is done because the kid is of the same school age with the others on the team.
8:20 Soccer clubs are just going to increase even more now that the next generation of coaches are coming of age and they'll need work. TK and the BHWK split are evident that coaching directors and parent boards don't always see eye to eye. There will be more clubs before there are fewer.
There will also be more clubs with the increase in over-involved parents. Most clubs also get started by disgruntled parents needing to create the path of least resistance for their child.
The root cause of why Minnesota soccer is so mediocre is that we have inferior coaches. The coaches walk around blowing their own horns. Player development is poor and these bogus coaches have every excuse down pat. More clubs = more inferior coaches.The future is pretty dim.
so 1:55 if you are comparing MN soccer being mediocre versus regional or national soccer then couldn't you say the same for MN football, basketball, and baseball where MN might have a player or two but their top teams would get smoked? These are all sports played nationally (versus hockey and lacrosse which are much more regional and where MN holds their own). Must be the mediocre coaches in all the sports then. It's too bad that MN doesn't have any good coaches in sports..... When in doubt and your kid doesn't succeed it MUST be the coaches, teachers, etc....
It's not just inferior coaching-- it's that MN players only think, see or play soccer at practice or games or training settings. They don't play on their own, watch the game or have parents who know how to communicate "how to play". Don't just blame the coaches, the parents and players have a significant role in the quality of play as well. Not that parent coaches from Lakeville, PSA and Eagan aren't awful enough. More clubs=more dispersed talent and higher costs but better competition to showoff a quality coaching product when it does exist.
I'm a native MN. I have for years I've watched parents promote their children as super stars (playing on teams that they either coach or have great influence on the coach). Nepotism, is what hurts all of the MN sports programs. If there were fair and open competion all individuals and teams would benefit. (the Gopher football program is a prime example). My child has been involved in traveling soccer for 4 years now and I can say that there are coaches in MN that not only love the game but love teaching the kids. If the parents would take a step back and let the coaches do their thing, all will be fine. I enjoy watching the girls compete within the state and at the various out of town venues.
All are correct coaches,player passion,parents overinvolved are all reasons for the average results of the MN soccer teams. Adding more clubs will only make this worse. We have way too many clubs. Clubs NEED to consolidate to allow kids of similar ability the ability to play together close to home.
Agreed. Combined talent will improve overall play. Let the best players compete for local area teams. (north, south, east, and west) And then have a MN team that represents our best. But isn't that suppost to be ODP?
lol - look outside........... our population is much smaller than the bigger cities/states our weather sucks which reduces outside training hockey and now lacrosse are athlete choices up here why is MN better than IA, ND, SD, etc..... it's numbers why is IL, OH, MI, MO, etc... better than MN - it's numbers and a little bit of weather Why are EP & Wayzata football traditionally two of the top football teams in the state - it's numbers Why do the SCal and TX teams always have the best soccer - it's numbers and weather 4:12 is right in that combined talent will improve overall play. If we have 8 "A level" kids and other teams/states have 14 "A level" kids then not only will the team with 14 kids be better, but they will most likley improve more over time training against each other. However, I don't agree with 4:12's thoughts on 4 local area teams - IMO there aren't enough "regional" level kids for two teams let alone four.
4:25 Thank you! Finally someone on this blog gets it. I log on to periodically see if there is a comment worth reading and get a good laugh now and then...this not only is dead on it will outrage those that don't get it and think the world revolves around soccer
9:12 Good points. I disagree that we don't have enough population to create as many strong teams as do many of our surrounding states. I think the current MTA model was a good try and indeed worked for a few teams. But, most of those good teams had much/most of it's talent from one geographical area, sure over time those teams added a few highly commited players from other areas but the core were from one city/area. If we had more similar opportunities based out of each quadrant of the metro I think (jmo) that we could develop several strong teams. MTA believed this too when they tried to have the 4 "academys" but they made the mistake of believing people would flock to them just because of the winning Bangu reputation. They also tiered their teams so each area wasn't even given a chance to build a geographically strong team. I think we have too many clubs. Fewer better clubs would help the overall ability of MN to develop stronger teams that could compete regionally. Right now as was referenced above MN has only 3 girls teams rated in the Gotsoccer top 50. Those teams can compete regionally but can they be a regional force? not sure.
7:32 - the original "pure" MTA Academy goal was the 4 regional academies at the younger ages through U12. The cream of that crop plus anyone else who wanted to tryout would then be combined at U13 to create one if not two top teams as the U13 age is the first opportunity for that age group to be eligible for the USYS championship (i.e. State Cup, Regional, National).
Cost is an issue for MTA as well. How many parents want to fork over $2500+ at the U13, U14 or U15 level and travel all over the metro area for practices and games? The player and parents need to committed 100% to soccer at that age, and not all will or should be, especially to the MTA model. If MN soccer is to improve, we need more than one strong club.
agreed, but any "strong" club is going to require players from multiple communities. the dollar amount you referenced is currently being spent by countless families at countless clubs for out of state tournaments (not just MTA). time and gas spent driving might be more but not overwhelming. in regards to MTA, most of their training is somewhat centrally located for the girls - not sure about the boys (Stardome, McMurray, etc...). you might disagree (and that's cool) but imo there aren't enough "regional" level kids in MN to accomplish the multi-club goal spread out across the twin cities. if some of our best teams (like the MTA U16's, old Stars) have middle of the road success at regionals, etc... with most of the best players at that age group then slicing that up into 4 teams will just dilute the talent and make weaker teams. Also, what would inevitable happen is one of the teams will be stronger and all the better players will want to gravitate to that team.
if you really want to be genuine in the argument you also need to point out MN great lack of diversity. the state itself it not very diverse and further the competitive soccer programs generally only support the 'wealthier' families and are predominantly 'white'. The best clubs/teams would include kids across economic/social channels.
not all of the issue is just the "regional" level kids. A lot of it is the kids are wasted away by the time they're 12 at local clubs that can't provide professional/quality coaching. Rev, Lakeville, PSA, Eagan, Valley, Tonka, Burnsville, Prior Lake, all leave their u6-u12 to parent coaches. By the time they're 13 and want quality/professional coaches its too late. That was a primary reason MTA wanted teh regional academies is to begin to develop more talent that is just wasted away. Look at the amount of teams those clubs submit at U9 and U10 and then look at how few of the clubs ever develop strong enough players to play at regional academies like MTA and ODP.
Let's not forget more players = more teams = more revenue = bigger club = less competition. Don't kid yourself money is a part of the equation.
What sells better than a club that wins state cup.
Ask a couple of the coaches most often mentioned here and thay can tell you Their championships in a nano second. I won this,I won that etc. How many players did you develop ....Huh
Unfortunately here in Minnesota it's more about the coaches than the players.
But,there are a couple of coaches who really are dedicated to player development ,they just don't get the ink. Minnesota needs more coaches like them.
Middle of the road success at regionals for the current MTA 16s? If region champs and region semifinalists in three years constitutes middle of the road, I'm not sure what planet you're posting from.
10:44 - $2500 is the MTA club fee and does not include individual traveling costs to out of state tournaments. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that "countless families at countless clubs" are not paying that much of a fee to their clubs, at least at the U13-15 levels.
The multi-club goal spread out across the twin cities is reality and a good start. Forming a single super club and expecting everyone to accept and join will never happen in the Twin Cities.
Anon 11:24 "By the time they're 13 and want quality/professional coaches its too late." Who wants a coach that believes that !!! Even college age players improve.
Not all of those clubs have exclusively parent coaches at the young ages. A couple of them have predominantly paid coaches for the most serious teams even at the youngest ages. Agreed that they all have parent coaches for lower level "gold" teams. some of the mentioned clubs,REV,Lakeville,Tonka may have up to 7 or 8 teams per age group so parent coaches are certainly used for some of the teams.
12:27 - we all live in a what have you done for me lately society...... To go from regional champs, to regional semi-finalist, to only winning once in pool this year is not a good trend. As was stated previously, coming in 2nd in your pool is also IMO "middle of the road success".
I am NOT with MTA but to call the MTA U-16 Blue girls middle of the road is insane! this is the most accomplished current MN team. They are clearly the State Cup favorite by large amounts.
ok - slightly above middle of the road from a "REGIONAL' standpoint. feel better. also, being the most accomplished current MN team means exactly what from a regional or national standpoint?
1:24 pm - The MTA U16's are competing in the top flight of the ECNL. They tied the 2008 National Champions (San Juan Spirits) and beat teams from NC & CA last weekend.
12:44 the science is behind the statement; mylenation of the nervous system that governs the small motor skill development is typically on the decline after puberty (u11-U14) so if a player is still learning basic technique at U13 they'll be significantly behind the player who has learned the technique but is refining it. I've seen a lot of U13's that there's some more room for development but the process takes even longer. The best option is to teach it at the youngest age and refine from there, rather than break a lot of the bad habits to overcome good technique. Not that players don't improve from u13-22 but that it the time it takes is too long for a player to join a top team that needs refinement not re-education--or in many cases, education.
11:24 -- wasted away??? I bet the kids are having fun...but what a waste of talent, right?
You don't have to have "professional" coaching at the U6-12 levels. There are certainly many qualified parents who can coach at the younger levels and many clubs provide additional support and training to them.
Here are the teams I see as regionally competitive. That doesn't mean regional champs but it does mean they can play with any team in the region and be competitive. U-13 MTA U-14 DKT Rev, MTA Blue U-15 Burnsville U-16 MTA Blue/white U-17 EP U-18 Woodbury U-19 MTW Burnsville, EP, and Woodbury by virtue of their acceptance into the MRL Premier league, The others by virtue of their in state dominance and out of state success. Maybe there are others that deserve mention that skipped my mind if so I apologize.
1:40- wasted away talent, burned out, not able to problem solve, poor technique, head down dribblers, first touch donkeys, not age-appropriate development, etc. then most of the kids are relegated to c3-c2 soccer or quit with the rest of the local grunts when-- had we given them expert coaching, free play creative environments that were age appropriate, more kids would be developed, more talent retained and more options to create better regional teams. problems are that the big local clubs like Lakeville, PSA, Eagan and Burnsville haven't created innovative coaching models to develop and retain their numbers.
1:34 - they tied (according to Gotsoccer-so take that for what it's worth) the #53 nationally ranked team, and beat the #48 & #62 teams. I wouldn't stop saving for college yet...... no one is saying they aren't a good team, but there is nothing wrong with people having different interpretations/definitions of how a team stacks up regionally/nationally. take a deep breathe.....
OK 2:08 fair enough. Question: do you think ANY MN team is a regional contender? If so (or even if not) who in your opinion has the best chance to advance through regions to the national tournament? who do you feel is the best chance for a MN representative at Nationals?
2:17, 2:08 here, good question. I will exclude the U19's as that age is college kids coming back home so you never know. In MN, IMO, the U13 MTA team and U16 MTA team potentially have the talent to contend for regional championships based off of outside state success. As you are probably aware, there is a very fine line between going 3-0-0 in pool play and going 1-1-1. It's a bounce here, a play there. Neither team is currently good enough to win a game at the national championships (U13's don't go anyway). Next in line would be the WDB U17's if they can stay healthy and play up to their capabilities. The real unknown is the U17 EP team as from what I've heard they upgraded quite a bit, but have no track record to know how good (or bad) they are going to be.
Anon- 2:39 How so? Donkeys don't pay more money for quality coaching, they don't know one to pay for one. more money= more players not less like the current system. The only ones getting paid are the club DOC's or contracted trainers like GW, SW, or AM
3:02 - correct the WDB team is U18, my bad - as the kids would say. Don't know what impact any players leaving would have on them and not much on speculating.
3:06- Inferno is past their prime. Lost coach, lost atleast one National team player, among others. Focus for this team was waning as of two years ago. It was a great run for them, but it is over. Time to move on.
2:31 MTA U-16's are easily the "most likely" to succeed regionally. They have had good success at Disney and in the MRL Premier league. Way too soon to place the 13's in that catagory because most of the competitive teams/clubs they will be competing against will start adding the pieces they need to be competitive. I mean, it is a very small pool of teams that travel at U-12 like this group did. Please don't get me wrong, they are definately the strongest MN team right now.
Rev 14's could be a factor using your same logic about how there is a fine line between wins and loses, Gotsoccer shows they tied #12 and lost 1-0 to #8 nationally while out in a northern CA. Tournament this OCT.
Burnsville will get it's chance when they play in the MRL Premier league but as of now they only have proven to be MN's best team at U-15.
MTA U-14 will get a strong test in Jan. as they travel to CA. for a southern CA. tournament.That tournament should be an indicator of their level of play compared with the REV 14's.
I too have Heard EP (u-17)is improved but havent seen it yet, they will get their chance in MRL Premier also.
I wouldn't rule out Inferno just yet, even if best days are behind them as was indicated above, they could still be very strong, best in MN in my opinion.
The only other team that wasn't mentioned in the list above that could be OK is the MTA U-15 team, they had too many guest players last week so those results might not be totaly reflective of their true teams talent and ability.
9:35 - don't you feel that the current MTA U16's also fell into the same description that you have for the MTA U13's? Lots of early travel, lots of early success, other teams catching up, etc... Not suprised there are many similarities since they are both MA teams that he started very early with selected players that he upgraded every year.
Sure the gap has narrowed for the 16's dominance but they are still a cut above the rest in my mind until some team can prove me wrong. Only two teams with a chance to upset them in MN and that would be white and Rev. If either were to beat them it would be a big upset however. 16 Blue is very very good. The 16's "captured" their top players when Bangu was really the only high level club in the state, they were one of only a very few teams/clubs to travel and play MRL. Now several clubs have teams doing the same which I believe may limit the novelty of the recruiting MTA may have with the current 13's. I can see them more following the path of the current U-14 team. That team wins state cup as U-12's and are still a very good team but haven't yet been able to move their game to that next level. Maybe they will do so in Jan. Anyhow to answer your question No I don't feel the 16's are the same as the 13's in that regard.
most big Community clubs that are mentioned on here will have paid coaches coach their top teams at each level. Most clubs also offer year round footskills training outside a team environment anyway. the top kids will seek out Coerver programs and other individual training over the winter if they are truly a high level player even if it is not team/club specific. the advantage MTA has in theory is that they have 'the best players/deepest roster' which make practices more effective since you are competing and training with the best. That is a salient point but hardly exclusive to them. I would put the travel/training/coaching (and cost) level of the top teams at CC in the same class as MTA. I would put the year round individual footskills and technical training programs available outside MTA on the same level as MTA (think Fundafut at Rev or Coerver across the metro as an example versus Footholde). Over the next couple years there will be a coaching talent drain from MTA (already happening) unless the figure out how to be more financially astute. my DD has played premier at a cc and trained with Bangu over the years and the quality is equally high. MTA certainly does not have priviledged access to better facilities than the top cc (think all the domes now available) either.
10:29 - never meant MN, but from a regional standpoint. I respect your opinion, but I do see many similarities in the direction that the U16's have gone. When they were U13 and younger they won lots of out-of-state tournaments and were regional champs. At U14 they won a weak pool to make it to semi's and then lost. At U15 they could not get out of their pool. IMO, they were ahead of the curve from a regional standpoint when they were younger, but the bigger states/clubs not just narrowed the gap but passed them. They will always be the best MN team for their age (barring any upset) just like WDB Inferno (shoot - they've never given up a goal at State Cup). Glad to see that a normal discussion can take place with different views without it turning into a screamfest.
11:53 am Are we talking abtout the MTA U16's that didn't give up a goal in regionals against OH & IL and that were runners up in the MRL premier league this year? The same team that was placed in the top flight for ECNL, and just last weekend had success against teams from bigger states (CA)/clubs?
take a deep breathe. no one is saying that they are not good and I will now bow out of this discussion as it would appear that I've upset some parents who's DD's play on that team. and btw - yes, the same team that only won one game at regionals..... you may respond all you want to get in the last word as I am out.
11:17 yes, I agree there will be a talent drain from MTA beginning this summer since what most CC clubs do is supplement the coaches salaries/stipends with club training: fundajoke at Rev, Coerver, Edina skills, Tonka, etc. MTA has other advantages that you play with are all good and have had high quality training and are more skilled. Costs are comparable although everyone thinks otherwise. If you do CC and track your expenses as you go (since they always ask for more) then you'd see the price tag is similar. MTA budgets year round and there's no need to do extra Coerver stuff since most likely your coach worked for Coerver or Footholde or works with them in some capacity. My DD had a drop in coaching consistency when she left Bangu/ since her teams' skills trainer was different than her coach. It work out alright, but at MTA/Bangu she had one coach and many assistants which seems a lot a better now. The year round training environment with an experienced coach, not just paid coach was instrumental in her success. She still owes a lot of her skills development to her Bangu coaches.
Sounds like Bangu/Thunder dropped the ball. Eclipse held a meeting this past w/end at the final four with players from UCLA, Stanford and Notre Dame (X Eclipse players) and they are going to try to put together a WPSL team. Since Lightning folded, sounds like if X Lightning players are interested, they should contact Eclipse.
lol - are the players going to pay the franchise fee to be part of the league? Who is going to own and actually run the team (we're talking million$$ here) not sure you have any idea how this all works. the WPSL isn't the W-league in the USL which is made up of mainly semi-pros and college kids.
2:34 MTA was invited to the meeting and declined, no way to fund an expensive WPSL team. The lightning exist because they can work at camps to ofset the cost. MTA does not have that capability at this time and at the end of the day a WPSL is not important to the club. We will leave that to the professional team and anyone else who wants to take on the expensive endeavor.
1,123 comments:
1 – 200 of 1123 Newer› Newest»Is it better to be in the Elite Club National League or not? Two teams playing in the U17 Final Four Showcase. According to silly Got Soccer Rankings.
Eden Prairie
Challenge SC 93 Red Natl rank 669 #14 TXS (off site)
North OKC OFC 93 Natl rank 377 330pm Sat (off site)
NSA Storm Natl rank 156 game time 9pm Sat. night
MTA (one game each day and main fields)
Atlanta Fire Natl rank 321
BUSA AL State Champ Natl rank 104
CESA NC State Champ Natl rank 66
My take
MTA way better teams to play.
MTA all three games on the main complex and EP two games off the main complex.
EP two games in one day and a Saturday night game at 9pm, I am sure a lot of coaches will be at that one.
agreed. what's kind of sad is the best team either of them gets to face is #66. if a coach is interested in a player they will make the game.
Man, you guys are hard to please. Your in the ECNL, scouts/coaches will come. The job now is promoting your kids, its up to you to get the coaches to come watch YOUR games. its NOT important that you play the 66th best team or the 2nd best team. The imporant thing is, your in the league while there are A LOT of other clubs and teams that want to be but are kept out. Stop your crying.
Now, since your all saying we are ONLY playing these so so teams, you just put the pressure on your teams to win out. The jury is out on that.
Good luck to SSM U-17 girls at Surf Cup SD CA. this weekend.
Anyone else traveling in the upcomming months? Scrimmages of note?
Traveling is a waste of time and money. The best way to be seen is to attend a few camps of coaches (teams) you are interested in. Don't expect your coach to help you get recruited. It's up to you.
8:27 you are absolutely correct. You need to contact the coaches, send them your schedule and show interest in their program. Most college coaches will not look at a player if they have not been contacted beforehand. Camps are very valuable to meet college coaches as they will get to know the PLayer as a person since they will work with them for 4 - 5 days straight.
so the goal is to then run around all over the country attending a half dozen college camps for 4-5 days straight apiece hoping to get a scholarship?
9:12- you are partially correct- but I think you are also very wrong. The head coaches will only work with select players. Don't expect that by paying your $400 for the University of X Camp that it means that Univ head coach will work with your kid. Doesn't always happen- example: Univ of Kansas Camp- daughter was coached by William Jewell College head coach.
Does your club have college coaches come to friendlies, home league games, or practice sessions? If not, ask them why not, other clubs are. This is a great way to be seen also.
Regarding the initial question- don't be stupid. Even though ECNL is not at the "main complex", college coaches will be in attendance. It IS the top league in the country. Trust that the games MTA will play will give them a challenge. How about you beat these teams first and then crow about how lousy they are? If the post was made by an EP parent trying to make sour grapes taste better- win the key games and earn your way to the recognition you seek.
Traveling to out of state tournaments is a great experience for the kids and often their families. If the goal is to get that big scholorship by attending out of state tournaments you are correct, they are wasting their time and money, but, if the goal is to create an "experience" for your team then traveling out of state is a great opportunity for that team to have a fun and rewarding experience. My kids have traveled several times over the past few years and the "experience" has been wonderful for them, their team and our whole family.
Teams in the ECNL that do not play MRL or MYSA can they still play State cup?
8:21, I guess Im somewhat confused..Traveling is wonderful for your whole family?? Super, but, what is this about, for the family to go out and have fun, or, is it suppose to be about your player?? Good Mighty. My dd plays college, and its safe to say, that she traveled by herself most of the time without Mommy and Daddy. Unless your loaded, and this competitive soccer is just a weekend get away for the family. Then super. If this is the case, then why travel, seems you can afford to send her anywhere anyway.
Anoy 9:03 AM, ECNL is not a US Youth Soccer sanction league thus they can not partipate in US Youth Soccer National Championship series which includes State Cup
If this is true, 2:38- then how does the MTA U17 girls team get into State Cup? You really don't think that they will sit it out, do you?
My guess is that there is a loophole with US Club and USYS both being sanctioned by the US Soccer Federation. I won't hold my breath that MN Youth Soccer Association will get it right, however. They can't even interpret their own rules correctly. Good luck.
MTA U15, U16 and U17 as well as Shattuck U18 will have to play MYSA this spring to play state cup, none of them are in MRL.
Maybe they all play in the same U18C1 league since it is self select or maybe the MTA teams choose to play MYSA Premier think they can since they earned MRL premier league spots.
When will MYSA post State Cup info so teams have a general idea of dates, Looks like the ECNL play over memorial day weekend wonder if MYSA plan to schedule state cup during that weekend this year.
Wish MYSA could get the dates out early so teams can make plans for the spring.
9:18AM - The State Cup dates have been posted on the MYSA site for ages. Open your eyes! April 23 - May 23, 2010. Now go and make your plans for the spring.
MTA teams are playing U19 C3. The 16s, 17s, 18s, and 19s, are all playing in that league. I think 19 white team. A few others. Good idea for these teams as they would play each other in friendlies and now get the tickets to compete at State Cup. Good plan MTA.
10:19 thats a little negative. Traveling for us is NOT about earning a scholorship to a major college. I am fully commited to continuing my 529 deposits :) We have had one trip that the whole family attended and several that only Mom or I attended and a few that my daughter attended with another responsible adult. I firmly believe my daughter has grown in a positive way because of the opportunity she has had to get outside of the MN soccer scene,(we still play and enjoy the MN league). She plays MRL and has attended several other tournaments over the years and I feel her team has benefited because of the step up in competition and seeing and adapting to the different styles of play prevalent in the different regions of the country. Do what you want, for each their own, I won't judge you for not finding value maybe you should consider what I say the benefits are, keep an open mind and if the opportunity arises give it a try.
Oh, by the way, I am not planning on feeling bad about truely loving any chance I can get to watch my kids play , I do really enjoy watching them and plan to continue as long as I am able.
SSM U-17 girls lose all three in CA. this weekend. Losing 0-3, 3-5, and 0-2. This seems somewhat surprising since they were involved in the "B" (gold) pool.
No horse in the race but the Surf cup gold flights have very good teams in them based got soccer rankings. Sure the young SSm team had a good experience.
agreed. 2 of the 3 teams are ranked higher than any MN team. What's your point 6:09?
Just a insecure MTAer trying to shoot down every other team in their age. First EP, now SSM, I am sure Wayzata is soon to come.
6:09- atleast they are playing somewhere meaningful- I can tell you that there were over 100 coaches who watched the SSM U17s play over the last two days.
They did not, as a team, play well at all. As a matter of fact, these were the worst games I have seen this team play in three years.
BTW- Congratulations to #10 and her dad- I am happy that she has proven the wise idiots on this blog wrong. She is a freshman starter on a team going to the final 8.
9:00 - it's too bad they went all that way and spent all that money to play so bad in front of all those coaches.
10:09- I didn't spend any more for my child to travel to SoCal than if they had stayed and played St Croix in the dome. I didn't say that individual players didn't have decent performances, I said that they didn't play well as a team. So, I am sure there will be some good that comes from these games. Most of the Big 12, Big Ten, WAC, and PAC Ten were represented. Add that to many mid-majors and it equated to more coaches than I have ever seen in one place.
7:48 My point is it is disapointing to see results like this from what I consider to be one of MN's better teams. I hoped this team was moving towards better showings as they got more used to playing higher levels of competition. Poor MRL showing followed by an improved imnproved performance at a strong regional tournament but then the big let down in CA. Glad to hear personal goals were met by having all of the coaches see the TEAM play. Maybe that was the problem?
BTW: Only 3 MN girls/womens teams are rated in the top 50 nationally by Gotsoccer:
U-14 DakotaRev Rampage # 40
U-16 MTA Elite Blue # 22
U-19 MTW 91 Premier # 10
All three of these teams had MRL and/or Major Tournament (out of state) success. All of these teams played against teams from other states with much higher point totals.
maybe they just aren't that good. what was this "strong" regional tournament that they went to? don't be confused by the Eclipse (#185) & Scott Gallagher #273) teams as you can see they are not their top squads. they also tied a nebraska squad (#255).
not trying to be harsh, but honest.
here you go again, putting winning in front of development. its the same ole thing year in and year out. Gotta win win win. Scouts are NOT looking at teams, they are looking at players!!! A college is NOT going to recruit a team, they are there to watch players playing. No matter if a player is on a great team or not. Look at all the great players playing for colleges that are not from State Cup championship teams. DUH!!
I think Shattuck is getting a name with in the college coaching circles...They have produced a few players doing very well for their colleges. Bunbury at Akron to name 1, Cline at UCLA to name another. I agree with 10:45..colleges are not recruiting teams. They know what type of training these players are getting at Shattuck. The could care less about the W/L record.
lol - our team doesn't do well then it's all about "development". when they did well at the Metro tournament all we heard about was how good the team was getting.
hate to break it too you, but there isn't another CC currently at SSM on the girls side and don't see one on the horizon. not sure how many RII ODP girls are currently on the girls side.
Really? I know the posters on this site are known more for their hate and ignorance than soccer insight, but still, I would have thought even the most hateful, ignorant soccer dad/mom (10:55!) would know better to judge any team based upon their performance in November.
November is when coaches get a look at their team and decide what they need to work on over the winter.
Doesn't matter if you are talking about SSM, MTA/Bangu, Woodbury, EP, or Dakota Rev - it is a mistake to judge a team on any tournament performance before spring tourneys.
Now I'm getting confused reading all these posts.
One states it's all about not judging tournament performance this early
One states the only thing scouts look at are players and not the team
They would appear to all be from pro SSM folks
So is it all about the team or the individual as I was always taught in soccer it's tough to have one without the other (maybe what 8:29 alluded to was accurate).
1:34 - those are not mutually exclusive options. In my view 8:29 was wrong in that he or she made the error of judging a team based upon results in November.
I am not pro-SSM or pro-MTA (also not mutually exclusive options, by the way).
Let me break it down in terms you may be able to understand without getting confused (your words).
The team's coach should evaluate individuals during tournament play in November in order to design training to maximize the team's potential.
However, people who are not even at the game should not make the mistake of judging a team (good or not) based upon the scores of a game - especially when the only tool they have to evaluate the competition is a meaningless numerical ranking.
This is as true of good results as bad results, though I tend to be more tolerant of proud parents who were at the game bragging about positive results than I am of hateful/ignorant parents sitting at home ignorantly using scores and rankings to justify their hate. Maybe that's just me.
1:49 - you are obviously a true blue Minnesotan as that was without a doubt some of the best passive-aggressive comments I have read in a long time.
My choice is better than your choice therefore I'm better than you. I come on this blog to justify why I am better than you because I'm very insecure.
Been there, done that, who cares...
I just knew once the blog site opened up a Club thread, it would turn nasty. Its 34 post, and already people are after meat about so and so club, so and so players etc.
You're right 8:21- and without the guts to put forth what club they put their faith/money into. I find it interesting that people want to attack another club only when they don't have to state their loyalties.
could someone please just gag me with the sanctimonious spoon....
First there was the Kallman sisters at the UofM and now it looks like there is going to be the Price sisters who are both going to be Golden Gophers. Congrats to BP. Great player-great kid.
ahhhh, let the good times roll.
Can anyone give a logical explanation why MTA has kept MA as a coach? Any other well-run organization would have kicked him out. I guess MA is MTA.
MA used very poor judgement, pubicly acknowledged & apologized for his actions and then accepted his punishment.
As long as the MTA directors allow him to coach, his players & their parents should decide whether they want him to coach, not those of us not directly affected.
MA coaching one MTA team does not make him "MTA" as he is no longer a director. As many of MA's players would tell you, his coaching/teaching skills over the past 10+ years have benefited many young players & they still have a lot of respect for him.
Man, I thought this was a blog for discussing girls club soccer, now some payton place. leave the dude alone. Let him live in his little own world and let the dude blog on his site. just remember, its a very big world out there.
If MTA is larger than MA, then why did MTA management allow him to continue to coach?
The decision to keep him is a bad reflection on the organization as a whole and reflects poor judgment and bad leadership on MTA management. To say that "his players & their parents should decide whether they want him to coach" is a joke. Yes, management should listen to parent/player views, but parents/players don't run the organization and the organization should be larger than MA and his team.
What punishment did MA "actually" receive? He still coaches his precious girls team and is now a HS coach.
Question - What do Sarah Palin, the Keene family (of baloon boy fame)and MA have in common with Tinkerbell (of Peter Pan fame)?
Answer - They all need constant attention in order to thrive. Remember when you had to clap for Tinkerbell to keep her alive? Same deal with the others.
11:34 AM -- MA coaches girls club soccer, so it's appropriate to discuss on this blog.
My God. Why back to MA? Some of you can't get past the past. MA has nothing to do with MTA save coaching a team. Keep shooting arrows at MTA and keep trying to bring them down. This one misses its mark by a long shot.
8:21 from last night was right....
9:21/11:39/11:39 - hopefully each of you (or maybe just one of you since this could all be one person) can answer this......
are you really looking for answers to your questions or is the goal just to like on cue lob this out and highlight his acknowledged mistakes?
Maybe you can answer this question for me.......if he's not coaching your daughter, you most likely have no contact with anything he does - why do you care?
11:39 am
My understanding was that the team did get to decide whether they would keep him on to coach or not. Even if that isn't true and you had a daughter on this team, you are free to go to another team to play. MTA does not have a monopoly. There are other options if MTA (or a particular coach) makes a CC a better choice for you. MTA offers a product, and you can choose whether you want to pay for that product, or select another option that may be easier on your wallet.
Yes, I would like to see an answer. The questions are directed more to the competence of MTA than MA himself. I care because I pay fees to MTA. Why do you care? You can always start a different topic.
1:25 - such a bunch of BS. If you have a question for the leadership of MTA, then why not ask it directly to them instead of here on a public blog. We all know you aren't looking for a public response, but pat yourself on the back for raking the muck - mission accomplished!!
seems pretty clear that this is an issue between one or two posters and mta. imo - sounds like a personal matter/issue.
Agreed. Anyone questioning MTA leadership should not come on here looking for informed answers.
Mark has been approached my a number of clubs interested in what he has to offer now that MTA fired him. Some people can't get past the fact that the guy has moved forward like a true man from the incident and continues to find success with coaching, his company, etc. It will be interesting to see what he gets involved with next from a club standpoint, if he chooses to get involved again at all.
Didn't he get some penalties from MYSA regarding the "incident"? Won't that disallow the team to participate in State Cup, league, etc?
no, Jonathan Shaeffer is their actual coach for State Cup, etc...
come on - you can do better than that. try harder.
Personal matter/issue? Not for me, but apparently for you.
What's the purpose of this blog? To satisfy the wishes of 1:34 PM?
His team didnot get disaqualified. He just can't be coaching at state cup next year.
Hey, I like the guy, it was just a question. So, who has their panties in a bunch then?
Where on the MYSA website are the dates for next years state cup posted?
Simple question. Defensive responses by MA followers.
fired him? moved forward? he's still with the team!
Any MTA members or supporters interested in providing a logical explanation (in response to 9:21 AM)?
lol - look at the last three posts, it's almost like if no one fights back he/she fires another one across the bow almost exactly ONE HOUR later!!! Another practical use for your Blackberry/Palm Pilot - program it to remind you to send out another post on an hourly basis. it's funnier to just sit back and chuckle.
What good are the MYSA/USYSA sanctions against him if MTA chooses to not abide by them? He is not supposed to be coaching- where is MYSA with their penalties to MTA?
Was he not sanctioned from coaching under USYSA for one year? I was not under the impression that it was only for State Cup, he essentially got his coaches card revoked. He CN NOT be on the sidelines for any games, and if any kids get injured with him coaching the USYSA insurance does not apply.
Oh, you're so concerned about the players, aren't you. How thoughtful.
I'll try and type s-l-o-w-l-y for the thick-headed blogger(s) on this site and reiterate what some others with sense have already posted. Read closely. If you have a problem with MTA go talk to MTA. If you have a problem with MYSA go talk to MYSA. If you don't have the balls to do something like that in person, hide behind an anon name on this blog and continue to post your loser posts.
I was told by a reliable source that MYSA sanctions against MA applied only to State Cup and the national championship series.
That's all that I know. If you need more info go ask MA or someone at MYSA.
You are a pinhead 10:25 PM.
This is a discussion forum. I don't like your gibberish but I and others have to put up with it too.
Don't talk about other peoople's balls if you don't have the balls to use your own name in this blog.
I think I was the one who started the negativity with my original post anout the SSM girls losing all three in CA. After re reading it I can see how it was recieved as very negative. I really was not intending for the interpretation being that I was taking a shot at the team. I was truely surprised that the team results were not better. I do agree the "B" pool was very strong and losing three against that level of competition is not necessarily a bad showing.
Do not discuss your problems with MTA or MYSA on this blog. If you don't have anything positive to say, shut up!
9:36
It would not have mattered to this group. All this talk (positive or negative) about MA in a post on Girls Club Soccer just reinforces how much influence he has had (good or bad) on girls youth soccer in this state. I think it is hilarious that his detractors keep his name in the fore front and give him free advertising for his other businesses by continuing to mention him in this blog. People new to the blog go out and Google him to see who this guy is because he must have a great impact on girls soccer when every other post includes his initials.
Is that you MA???
What happens when you google MA?
What a bunch of stale nonsense.
Are any teams traveling this month?
Yes - teams heading down to TX for the College Cup this weekend and then Disney at the end of the month (don't know who all is going). Not sure who's going to the Orange Classic in FL.
SCV U16G & TCF U18G (playing in U19 bracket) in the Orange Classic
MTA U15G, U16G, U17G and EP United U17G at the College Cup this weekend
Good luck to all and safe travels!
i like your transition 12:09 PM
Does anyone have an opinion on who the top 3 teams or so at each age group for State Cup. (Girls Only)
U13 - MTA and then a bit of a drop to either Prior Lake or Tonka? TCF? MTA white?
U14 - EP, MTA, DREV
U15 - BVL, MTA ???
U16 - MTA, MTA, ???
U17 - WAYZ, EP, MTA, SSM
U18 - WDB and SSM (quite a drop from there)
Just my humble opinion. I listed the '08 State Cup champs first although at a couple of age groups who is best will be deeply discussed.
U13 MTA and a huge drop to PL
U14 DREV, MTA, EP
U15 MTA, BVL, WAYZ
U16 MTA, MTA, DREV
U17 EP MTA WAYZ Shattuck
U18 Woodbury, Shattuck
U19 MTA
1:52 PM nice response to your own question!
1:52 here, wrong 3:04. like 12:09 just trying to move this thread in a different direction. i didn't rank the teams 1-2-3 and purposely gave credit to the reigning champs.
323, correct I'm the one who started it. I will let you know when I get a chance to think about my picks. Maybe tonight!!
Baloney 3:36 PM, I started it.
It was me salami! You party crasher.
I am not sure why anyone would want to take credit for starting State Cup predictions in December.
This is a time of year for MN folks to unite and get behind MN girls (regardless of uniform color) as they take on the powerhouses from other states.
Anyone have a schedule/predictions for teams traveling in Dec?
Kumbaya
Predictions are much simpler than discussing the actions of MTA.
Hey mnfutbol, why not create a separate blog for MTA issues?
or you can just re-read all the old club threads as the same topics have been beaten to death with bombs tossed at each other from both sides.
That would take all the fun out of it. New topics or old topics with different twists will always develop, as they do in any new soccer season. Some problems never seem to go away or get fixed.
Looks like we've got a Don Quixote of the youth soccer scene out fighting the windmills in his mind.
Re-reading old threads would not produce such profound comments.
MTA ECNL teams are competing this weekend at College Station for the first time. It will be interesting to see how they do against elite girls clubs in the nation.
Friday
U15 vs Lone Star SC
U16 vs San Juan SC
U17 vs Birmingham United
Saturday
U15 vs FC Delco
U16 vs Charlotte SC
U17 vs Atlanta Fire United
Sunday
U15 vs Solar 95
U16 vs West Coast FC
U17 vs CESA Premier
is there a web site to monitor the girls progress?
Disney showcase is coming up. This year there will be USYS national league teams, ECNL teams, and other top teams in the nation competing in 3 flights: showcase,
predator, and copa. Showcase will include USYS national league teams and ECNL Challenge A teams. Predator will include ECNL Challenge B teams.
Accepted MN teams:
U15 - None
U16 - MTA White - Predator flight
U17 - Eden Prairie - Copa flight
U17 - Wayata - Copa flight
U18 - Woodbury - Showcase flight
ECNL schedule and results:
http://usclubsoccer-eliteclubs.d4sportsclub.com/pagecustom.aspx?id=5&o=340781
Woodbury should sweep their flight. They are one of the best teams in the nation.
Overall MN teams performance will start to slip as their best years are now behind them.
The best years are behind us? You probably better explain that one.
Boy, this thread is dead.
A team that has gone 3-10-2 at regionals in 5 years and never advanced out of their pool is one of the best teams in the nation?
Disney apparently thinks they are, since they are in the Showcase flight. Geez, how about a little less Grinch this time of year.
Kumbaya
I am somewhere in between 1:01 and 4:58. Woodbury is a solid, athletic and skilled team but I doubt anyone who knew soccer would say it was one of the best teams in the nation! Wdby will probably not sweep their flight. They are playing the defending Disney showcase champion plus 2 other very solid teams. They should be great games and I am glad to see them finally get into the flight where they belong. Now their issue will be keeping everyone healthy - they have a small roster to begin with. Good luck to all the MN teams.
I guess it all depends on what you define as "best teams in the nation". There are thousands of U18 girls teams in the nation, so would top 50 equate to "best teams"? top 40? top 30? Based on their record, they aren't top 20, but even if we all agree they are in the top 50, top 40, or better than that is an accomplishment to be proud of. Good luck to all the girls and stay warm.
How are the MN teams doing so far? Any updates?
I don't think anyone much cares about U18 soccer anyway. Basically a college prep year.
how did mta teams do in their first games in tx?
http://usclubsoccer-eliteclubs.d4sportsclub.com/pagecustom.aspx?id=5&o=340781
15's lose
16's tie
MTA 17's beat Alabama State Cup champs 2-1.
U 15s lose 2-1 against #9 ranked team. Heard the team has short bench and several guest players.
#9 where? NSR shows them at #49.
MTA 17s won 2-0 not 2-1 vs BUSA
MTA 17s are the greatest MN club team EVER!!!
Who cares about MTA U15's. They are a group of slightly above average players with no superstars!
802 (Parent) Sounds like you are proud of the loss and also making excuses for it as well.
How did EP do In the bottom bracket.
16's win 2-1
119: most likely not a parent, probably a coach.
353, sounds like a parent to me
Minnesota soccer on the way downhill since 2007. See nothing to get excited about in the near future.
sounds like Eyeore from Winnie the Pooh.
5:38- did your child graduate in about 2007? Sure sounds like it. Why not move on to another sport other than youth soccer? Find something that Minnesota is on the rise with.
16's win again
What's the website to see results?
Does anyone know how the EP 17s did this weekend?
Final records of MN teams in first out-of-state tournament?
Talk about MRL getting watered down. The U16 First Division has 7 MM teams.
None of the U16 MN MRL teams is deserving (except my DD's team!)
None will represent our state adequately (we are not worthy)
It must be MYSA's fault (or somehow an MTA/MA conspiracy)
College Cup
MTA U15's
B or lower group 0-3-0 (w-l-t)
MTA U16's
A or higher group 2-0-1
MTA U17's
B or lower group 1-1-1
EP U17's
I believe they won all their games but in the lowest bracket.
ECNL games weren't lower or higher bracket from my understanding because all teams are in the same league. It was just Group A & Group B for scheduling purposes.
233, I heard that there are two levels to ECNL. A top flight and a bottom flight.
2:38 is correct. the better teams are in Group A.
Unless things have changed this is from the ECNL website:
"Each age group will be split into two flights (Challenge A and Challenge B) based on team strength, and games within each flight will be based on geographical location in order to minimize the number of games teams play against opponents from the same region."
http://www.clubsoccer.us/TTMore.aspx?tid=ECNL&tab=5&sub=1&Qual=MISC&Seq=2
From US Club Website:
Each age group will be split into two different flgihts (Challenge A and Challenge B) based on team strength, and games within each flight will be based on geographical location in order to minimize the number of games teams play against opponents from the same region.
There is also relegation from the A flight to the B flight. Not sure what happens if you are consistently at the bottom of the B flight
Any validity to the rumor of the status of the Thunder South academy? Rumor has it they are going to fold the teams in the South and just have a training academy.
MTA/Bangu has never "found it's legs" in the south. My guess is that is largely due to the stronger club competition in the south ie: Burnsville,Valley United (boys side) Dakota Rev ( girls side) and the fact that they have typically tried to pluck the talent they did get in the south and play those kids in the east where they have had several real strong teams.
I didn't know there was a MTA South Academy? What teams do they have?
Either way an MTA training academy makes sense, teams or no teams. Not a lot of kids leave for MTA until later in their ages. Probably would be a good thing. That was the original plan back when Bangu was looking to merge. Must have found a merging partner. Any academy setting is better than the parent coaches in Lakeville, Eagan, and Bloomington. Sounds interesting. Anyhow look how many Lakeville kids are part of MTA already. When my DD went back to her CC from bangu she was one of the best on the team so if they build it and we had a younger daughter, we'd go.
take your daughter back, we don't want her anyhow!
Valley United is at the end of their run on the boys side. Rev is gaining steam with some younger teams but their 13's are so weak they're playing their 12's up to earn the premier spot. Rev is the best in the south on the Girls side other than BRNs 15's
10:21 It is not uncommon for any team to have a talented player or two play up to a team of a higher age level for a variety of reasons. I know of many teams who have a player who is technically of a lower age group "play up". Often this is done because the kid is of the same school age with the others on the team.
What happened in St. Paul? When did TK leave Blackhawks and why? Does SPFC have new teams? Anyone have the scoop?
who is SPFC ?
St. Paul FC, new club in town.
The last thing this state needs is ANOTHER club!!! This state needs to consolidate clubs reducing the total number of clubs by at least 1/3.
Adding another with Minnesota Kings FC..
12:32 PM -- WHAT COMMENT ARE YOU RESPONDING TO???
8:20 Soccer clubs are just going to increase even more now that the next generation of coaches are coming of age and they'll need work. TK and the BHWK split are evident that coaching directors and parent boards don't always see eye to eye. There will be more clubs before there are fewer.
There will also be more clubs with the increase in over-involved parents. Most clubs also get started by disgruntled parents needing to create the path of least resistance for their child.
Another vehicle to add to the dilution of talent creating even more average to below average teams. Great Idea?!?! No new clubs please.
The root cause of why Minnesota soccer is so mediocre is that we have inferior coaches. The coaches walk around blowing their own horns. Player development is poor and these bogus coaches have every excuse down pat. More clubs = more inferior coaches.The future is pretty dim.
so 1:55 if you are comparing MN soccer being mediocre versus regional or national soccer then couldn't you say the same for MN football, basketball, and baseball where MN might have a player or two but their top teams would get smoked? These are all sports played nationally (versus hockey and lacrosse which are much more regional and where MN holds their own). Must be the mediocre coaches in all the sports then. It's too bad that MN doesn't have any good coaches in sports.....
When in doubt and your kid doesn't succeed it MUST be the coaches, teachers, etc....
It's not just inferior coaching-- it's that MN players only think, see or play soccer at practice or games or training settings. They don't play on their own, watch the game or have parents who know how to communicate "how to play". Don't just blame the coaches, the parents and players have a significant role in the quality of play as well. Not that parent coaches from Lakeville, PSA and Eagan aren't awful enough.
More clubs=more dispersed talent and higher costs but better competition to showoff a quality coaching product when it does exist.
I'm a native MN. I have for years I've watched parents promote their children as super stars (playing on teams that they either coach or have great influence on the coach). Nepotism, is what hurts all of the MN sports programs. If there were fair and open competion all individuals and teams would benefit. (the Gopher football program is a prime example). My child has been involved in traveling soccer for 4 years now and I can say that there are coaches in MN that not only love the game but love teaching the kids. If the parents would take a step back and let the coaches do their thing, all will be fine. I enjoy watching the girls compete within the state and at the various out of town venues.
All are correct coaches,player passion,parents overinvolved are all reasons for the average results of the MN soccer teams. Adding more clubs will only make this worse. We have way too many clubs. Clubs NEED to consolidate to allow kids of similar ability the ability to play together close to home.
Agreed. Combined talent will improve overall play. Let the best players compete for local area teams. (north, south, east, and west) And then have a MN team that represents our best. But isn't that suppost to be ODP?
lol - look outside...........
our population is much smaller than the bigger cities/states
our weather sucks which reduces outside training
hockey and now lacrosse are athlete choices up here
why is MN better than IA, ND, SD, etc..... it's numbers
why is IL, OH, MI, MO, etc... better than MN - it's numbers and a little bit of weather
Why are EP & Wayzata football traditionally two of the top football teams in the state - it's numbers
Why do the SCal and TX teams always have the best soccer - it's numbers and weather
4:12 is right in that combined talent will improve overall play. If we have 8 "A level" kids and other teams/states have 14 "A level" kids then not only will the team with 14 kids be better, but they will most likley improve more over time training against each other. However, I don't agree with 4:12's thoughts on 4 local area teams - IMO there aren't enough "regional" level kids for two teams let alone four.
4:25 Thank you! Finally someone on this blog gets it. I log on to periodically see if there is a comment worth reading and get a good laugh now and then...this not only is dead on it will outrage those that don't get it and think the world revolves around soccer
9:12 Good points. I disagree that we don't have enough population to create as many strong teams as do many of our surrounding states. I think the current MTA model was a good try and indeed worked for a few teams. But, most of those good teams had much/most of it's talent from one geographical area, sure over time those teams added a few highly commited players from other areas but the core were from one city/area.
If we had more similar opportunities based out of each quadrant of the metro I think (jmo)
that we could develop several strong teams. MTA believed this too when they tried to have the 4 "academys" but they made the mistake of believing people would flock to them just because of the winning Bangu reputation. They also tiered their teams so each area wasn't even given a chance to build a geographically strong team.
I think we have too many clubs. Fewer better clubs would help the overall ability of MN to develop stronger teams that could compete regionally. Right now as was referenced above MN has only 3 girls teams rated in the Gotsoccer top 50. Those teams can compete regionally but can they be a regional force? not sure.
7:32 - the original "pure" MTA Academy goal was the 4 regional academies at the younger ages through U12. The cream of that crop plus anyone else who wanted to tryout would then be combined at U13 to create one if not two top teams as the U13 age is the first opportunity for that age group to be eligible for the USYS championship (i.e. State Cup, Regional, National).
Cost is an issue for MTA as well. How many parents want to fork over $2500+ at the U13, U14 or U15 level and travel all over the metro area for practices and games? The player and parents need to committed 100% to soccer at that age, and not all will or should be, especially to the MTA model. If MN soccer is to improve, we need more than one strong club.
agreed, but any "strong" club is going to require players from multiple communities. the dollar amount you referenced is currently being spent by countless families at countless clubs for out of state tournaments (not just MTA). time and gas spent driving might be more but not overwhelming. in regards to MTA, most of their training is somewhat centrally located for the girls - not sure about the boys (Stardome, McMurray, etc...).
you might disagree (and that's cool) but imo there aren't enough "regional" level kids in MN to accomplish the multi-club goal spread out across the twin cities. if some of our best teams (like the MTA U16's, old Stars) have middle of the road success at regionals, etc... with most of the best players at that age group then slicing that up into 4 teams will just dilute the talent and make weaker teams. Also, what would inevitable happen is one of the teams will be stronger and all the better players will want to gravitate to that team.
if you really want to be genuine in the argument you also need to point out MN great lack of diversity. the state itself it not very diverse and further the competitive soccer programs generally only support the 'wealthier' families and are predominantly 'white'. The best clubs/teams would include kids across economic/social channels.
not all of the issue is just the "regional" level kids. A lot of it is the kids are wasted away by the time they're 12 at local clubs that can't provide professional/quality coaching. Rev, Lakeville, PSA, Eagan, Valley, Tonka, Burnsville, Prior Lake, all leave their u6-u12 to parent coaches. By the time they're 13 and want quality/professional coaches its too late. That was a primary reason MTA wanted teh regional academies is to begin to develop more talent that is just wasted away. Look at the amount of teams those clubs submit at U9 and U10 and then look at how few of the clubs ever develop strong enough players to play at regional academies like MTA and ODP.
Let's not forget more players = more teams = more revenue = bigger club = less competition. Don't kid yourself money is a part of the equation.
What sells better than a club that wins state cup.
Ask a couple of the coaches most often mentioned here and thay can tell you Their championships in a nano second. I won this,I won that etc. How many players did you develop ....Huh
Unfortunately here in Minnesota it's more about the coaches than the players.
But,there are a couple of coaches who really are dedicated to player development ,they just don't get the ink. Minnesota needs more coaches like them.
11:33 - So true!
Middle of the road success at regionals for the current MTA 16s? If region champs and region semifinalists in three years constitutes middle of the road, I'm not sure what planet you're posting from.
11:33 give them some ink. Who are some of the unknown coaches dedicated to player development?
10:44 - $2500 is the MTA club fee and does not include individual traveling costs to out of state tournaments. I don't know for sure, but I would guess that "countless families at countless clubs" are not paying that much of a fee to their clubs, at least at the U13-15 levels.
The multi-club goal spread out across the twin cities is reality and a good start. Forming a single super club and expecting everyone to accept and join will never happen in the Twin Cities.
Anon 11:24
"By the time they're 13 and want quality/professional coaches its too late."
Who wants a coach that believes that !!!
Even college age players improve.
Not all of those clubs have exclusively parent coaches at the young ages. A couple of them have predominantly paid coaches for the most serious teams even at the youngest ages. Agreed that they all have parent coaches for lower level "gold" teams. some of the mentioned clubs,REV,Lakeville,Tonka may have up to 7 or 8 teams per age group so parent coaches are certainly used for some of the teams.
12:27 - we all live in a what have you done for me lately society...... To go from regional champs, to regional semi-finalist, to only winning once in pool this year is not a good trend. As was stated previously, coming in 2nd in your pool is also IMO "middle of the road success".
I am NOT with MTA but to call the MTA U-16 Blue girls middle of the road is insane! this is the most accomplished current MN team. They are clearly the State Cup favorite by large amounts.
ok - slightly above middle of the road from a "REGIONAL' standpoint. feel better. also, being the most accomplished current MN team means exactly what from a regional or national standpoint?
1:24 pm - The MTA U16's are competing in the top flight of the ECNL. They tied the 2008 National Champions (San Juan Spirits) and beat teams from NC & CA last weekend.
12:44 the science is behind the statement; mylenation of the nervous system that governs the small motor skill development is typically on the decline after puberty (u11-U14) so if a player is still learning basic technique at U13 they'll be significantly behind the player who has learned the technique but is refining it. I've seen a lot of U13's that there's some more room for development but the process takes even longer. The best option is to teach it at the youngest age and refine from there, rather than break a lot of the bad habits to overcome good technique. Not that players don't improve from u13-22 but that it the time it takes is too long for a player to join a top team that needs refinement not re-education--or in many cases, education.
11:24 -- wasted away??? I bet the kids are having fun...but what a waste of talent, right?
You don't have to have "professional" coaching at the U6-12 levels. There are certainly many qualified parents who can coach at the younger levels and many clubs provide additional support and training to them.
Here are the teams I see as regionally competitive. That doesn't mean regional champs but it does mean they can play with any team in the region and be competitive.
U-13 MTA
U-14 DKT Rev, MTA Blue
U-15 Burnsville
U-16 MTA Blue/white
U-17 EP
U-18 Woodbury
U-19 MTW
Burnsville, EP, and Woodbury by virtue of their acceptance into the MRL Premier league, The others by virtue of their in state dominance and out of state success.
Maybe there are others that deserve mention that skipped my mind if so I apologize.
1:40- wasted away talent, burned out, not able to problem solve, poor technique, head down dribblers, first touch donkeys, not age-appropriate development, etc. then most of the kids are relegated to c3-c2 soccer or quit with the rest of the local grunts when-- had we given them expert coaching, free play creative environments that were age appropriate, more kids would be developed, more talent retained and more options to create better regional teams. problems are that the big local clubs like Lakeville, PSA, Eagan and Burnsville haven't created innovative coaching models to develop and retain their numbers.
1:34 - they tied (according to Gotsoccer-so take that for what it's worth) the #53 nationally ranked team, and beat the #48 & #62 teams. I wouldn't stop saving for college yet......
no one is saying they aren't a good team, but there is nothing wrong with people having different interpretations/definitions of how a team stacks up regionally/nationally.
take a deep breathe.....
OK 2:08 fair enough. Question: do you think ANY MN team is a regional contender? If so (or even if not) who in your opinion has the best chance to advance through regions to the national tournament? who do you feel is the best chance for a MN representative at Nationals?
2:17, 2:08 here, good question. I will exclude the U19's as that age is college kids coming back home so you never know.
In MN, IMO, the U13 MTA team and U16 MTA team potentially have the talent to contend for regional championships based off of outside state success. As you are probably aware, there is a very fine line between going 3-0-0 in pool play and going 1-1-1. It's a bounce here, a play there. Neither team is currently good enough to win a game at the national championships (U13's don't go anyway).
Next in line would be the WDB U17's if they can stay healthy and play up to their capabilities.
The real unknown is the U17 EP team as from what I've heard they upgraded quite a bit, but have no track record to know how good (or bad) they are going to be.
1:49 PM You forget the benefits to you -- more money!
Anon- 2:39 How so? Donkeys don't pay more money for quality coaching, they don't know one to pay for one. more money= more players not less like the current system. The only ones getting paid are the club DOC's or contracted trainers like GW, SW, or AM
2:31pm - Your reference to the WDB U17's (is this the Inferno team?) Wouldn't they be U18 this year? I thought they lost players to EP U17 team?
3:02 - correct the WDB team is U18, my bad - as the kids would say. Don't know what impact any players leaving would have on them and not much on speculating.
2:49 PM Who are you trying to fool?If there's more money, coaches will get a piece of it.
Donkey's? Too much kool aid being served on this thread!
1:40 PM I agree. Too many so-called "experts" trying to run the show.
3:06- Inferno is past their prime. Lost coach, lost atleast one National team player, among others. Focus for this team was waning as of two years ago. It was a great run for them, but it is over. Time to move on.
2:31 MTA U-16's are easily the "most likely" to succeed regionally. They have had good success at Disney and in the MRL Premier league.
Way too soon to place the 13's in that catagory because most of the competitive teams/clubs they will be competing against will start adding the pieces they need to be competitive. I mean, it is a very small pool of teams that travel at U-12 like this group did. Please don't get me wrong, they are definately the strongest MN team right now.
Rev 14's could be a factor using your same logic about how there is a fine line between wins and loses, Gotsoccer shows they tied #12 and lost 1-0 to #8 nationally while out in a northern CA. Tournament this OCT.
Burnsville will get it's chance when they play in the MRL Premier league but as of now they only have proven to be MN's best team at U-15.
MTA U-14 will get a strong test in Jan. as they travel to CA. for a southern CA. tournament.That tournament should be an indicator of their level of play compared with the REV 14's.
I too have Heard EP (u-17)is improved but havent seen it yet, they will get their chance in MRL Premier also.
I wouldn't rule out Inferno just yet, even if best days are behind them as was indicated above, they could still be very strong, best in MN in my opinion.
The only other team that wasn't mentioned in the list above that could be OK is the MTA U-15 team, they had too many guest players last week so those results might not be totaly reflective of their true teams talent and ability.
9:35 - don't you feel that the current MTA U16's also fell into the same description that you have for the MTA U13's? Lots of early travel, lots of early success, other teams catching up, etc... Not suprised there are many similarities since they are both MA teams that he started very early with selected players that he upgraded every year.
No, not at all
Sure the gap has narrowed for the 16's dominance but they are still a cut above the rest in my mind until some team can prove me wrong. Only two teams with a chance to upset them in MN and that would be white and Rev. If either were to beat them it would be a big upset however.
16 Blue is very very good. The 16's "captured" their top players when Bangu was really the only high level club in the state, they were one of only a very few teams/clubs to travel and play MRL. Now several clubs have teams doing the same which I believe may limit the novelty of the recruiting MTA may have with the current 13's. I can see them more following the path of the current U-14 team. That team wins state cup as U-12's and are still a very good team but haven't yet been able to move their game to that next level. Maybe they will do so in Jan. Anyhow to answer your question No I don't feel the 16's are the same as the 13's in that regard.
most big Community clubs that are mentioned on here will have paid coaches coach their top teams at each level. Most clubs also offer year round footskills training outside a team environment anyway. the top kids will seek out Coerver programs and other individual training over the winter if they are truly a high level player even if it is not team/club specific. the advantage MTA has in theory is that they have 'the best players/deepest roster' which make practices more effective since you are competing and training with the best. That is a salient point but hardly exclusive to them. I would put the travel/training/coaching (and cost) level of the top teams at CC in the same class as MTA. I would put the year round individual footskills and technical training programs available outside MTA on the same level as MTA (think Fundafut at Rev or Coerver across the metro as an example versus Footholde). Over the next couple years there will be a coaching talent drain from MTA (already happening) unless the figure out how to be more financially astute. my DD has played premier at a cc and trained with Bangu over the years and the quality is equally high. MTA certainly does not have priviledged access to better facilities than the top cc (think all the domes now available) either.
10:29 - never meant MN, but from a regional standpoint. I respect your opinion, but I do see many similarities in the direction that the U16's have gone.
When they were U13 and younger they won lots of out-of-state tournaments and were regional champs. At U14 they won a weak pool to make it to semi's and then lost. At U15 they could not get out of their pool. IMO, they were ahead of the curve from a regional standpoint when they were younger, but the bigger states/clubs not just narrowed the gap but passed them. They will always be the best MN team for their age (barring any upset) just like WDB Inferno (shoot - they've never given up a goal at State Cup). Glad to see that a normal discussion can take place with different views without it turning into a screamfest.
11:53 am Are we talking abtout the MTA U16's that didn't give up a goal in regionals against OH & IL and that were runners up in the MRL premier league this year? The same team that was placed in the top flight for ECNL, and just last weekend had success against teams from bigger states (CA)/clubs?
take a deep breathe. no one is saying that they are not good and I will now bow out of this discussion as it would appear that I've upset some parents who's DD's play on that team.
and btw - yes, the same team that only won one game at regionals.....
you may respond all you want to get in the last word as I am out.
11:17 yes, I agree there will be a talent drain from MTA beginning this summer since what most CC clubs do is supplement the coaches salaries/stipends with club training: fundajoke at Rev, Coerver, Edina skills, Tonka, etc.
MTA has other advantages that you play with are all good and have had high quality training and are more skilled. Costs are comparable although everyone thinks otherwise. If you do CC and track your expenses as you go (since they always ask for more) then you'd see the price tag is similar.
MTA budgets year round and there's no need to do extra Coerver stuff since most likely your coach worked for Coerver or Footholde or works with them in some capacity. My DD had a drop in coaching consistency when she left Bangu/ since her teams' skills trainer was different than her coach. It work out alright, but at MTA/Bangu she had one coach and many assistants which seems a lot a better now. The year round training environment with an experienced coach, not just paid coach was instrumental in her success. She still owes a lot of her skills development to her Bangu coaches.
Sounds like Bangu/Thunder dropped the ball. Eclipse held a meeting this past w/end at the final four with players from UCLA, Stanford and Notre Dame (X Eclipse players) and they are going to try to put together a WPSL team. Since Lightning folded, sounds like if X Lightning players are interested, they should contact Eclipse.
lol - are the players going to pay the franchise fee to be part of the league? Who is going to own and actually run the team (we're talking million$$ here) not sure you have any idea how this all works. the WPSL isn't the W-league in the USL which is made up of mainly semi-pros and college kids.
2:43 - I think you are confusing WPSL with the WPS. The WPSL is much like USL's W-League.
2:34 MTA was invited to the meeting and declined, no way to fund an expensive WPSL team. The lightning exist because they can work at camps to ofset the cost. MTA does not have that capability at this time and at the end of the day a WPSL is not important to the club. We will leave that to the professional team and anyone else who wants to take on the expensive endeavor.
2:49
Don't you mean existed, past tense?
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