With coaches practice started at most high schools, the excitement for the 2009 MN high school season is upon us. Should be a great year for HS soccer with many very strong U16, U17 and U18 girls club teams.
Anon 10:20 Are you speaking of the BYU player who was pony tail slammed to the ground? IMHO, it was that "foul" that sent public opinion over the edge.
It's no coincidence that the Class AA high schools that consistently are ranked the highest and/or go to state also have the strongest youth programs. Combine a strong feeder system with high enrollment and you end up with a solid high school squad. You could put 20 different coaches at some of the schools and you would win the same amount of games. Conversely, you could take all the coaches at the "top" high school programs and have them coach the weakest metro programs and I'm not sure they would win any more games than their current coaches.
actually Edina used to have a strong program (especially at the younger ages) which is where the core group of their recent state teams came from (old Edina Fusion etc...). These kids would migrate to the BNG/MTA, EP, WYZ, etc... once they hit their teenage years. Now they leave much earlier and younger. Very similar to what is now going on at WDB.
I would be surprised to see them back at state for awhile.
Unless 1:49 believes its "Simon Magic" that is the main reason behind their successes.
What does make a successful high school program? The head coach, the asst. coaches, the student leadership on the team, seniors, feeder programs, parental NON involvement, team experience, athletes, the list goes on.
I think SW does a pretty good job juggling all the intangibles year after year after year and getting them into the tournament.
8:29 a.m. Age and talent in most instances important but challenging game experience and exposure just as important. One of best teams ever 2007 LS state champ had starter that just turned 14 and this years class A champ Orono had 7th grader who was one of best players in class A who could affect outcome of AA games too. Alot depends on what coaches allows young player to do and be exposed to and can also handle the pressure from older players and their parents. Quality of player is one thing, allowing that player to show it requires courage of the coach to stand by his convictions for the betterment of the team.
lol - i bet not one of the Edina, EP, etc... U14 premier kids would have even made their respective high school varsity teams, but keep telling yourself whatever you want to believe.
You go to a website that blogs about soccer. You click on a link for '09 Girls HS Season, you bother to waste your valuable time reading posts and take it one step further, you right a post "Girls soccer is really hard to watch...". For you not only is it hard to watch, but you obviously enjoy wasting your valuable time going to a website to post such moronic comments. Get a life.
1:23 Agree too bad to see the Thunder go away. But... they were one of the worst marketing organizations around. Many many posts talked about the fact that the youth academy was a bad idea for marketing the team. It took every Bangu hater and converted them to a Thunder hater. It is hard to cheer for your opponent. I love Farve in purple but hated him as a Packer. Same deal with the Thunder, Play them on the field (hate them) and then be asked to support their Pro team later in the day?? That doesn't work.
615, Don't you mean Wings ( The main force(MA) behind Bangu's growth and move to the Thunder doesn't have the same role anymore. From what I've heard the Old wings coaches thought they knew better on how to run things then some of the Old Bangu guys. I for one think if that is true then the future for MTA will go kind of like Wings went before they joined Thunder. They will be a player but by no means the player they would have or could have been. The Old Wings club before joining forces with Thunder had continued to have more and more problems and had less and less success in State Cup. I see the same for whatever you call the new entity that emerges. I guess only time will tell!
Both entities should be sure they hire a business manager.
The only reason Wings "merged" with Bangu/MTA is because they screwed up the finances. Both organizations offered above average soccer but were not business savy. If.. MTA fails (financially) and it likely will, MN soccer will be given a great opportunity to provide a real soccer oppportunity to the high level player. We have 4x too many clubs in MN. MTA tried to fulfill a vision of excellence but the whole concept missed on a few key components. Bangu should focus on the north Wings (Part Deaux) in the west Dakota Rev in the south and St Croix in the east. 4 top regional clubs independent of one another in the 4 corners of the metro will help create at least 4 solid teams in each part of the Metro. St Croix and Rev will need to keep "pushing the bar" and Wings and The new Bangu will have to bring forth a big effort but the results could be great. CC's will continue to try, and often compete favorably but the top regional teams from the "big 4" will largely play regionally and in national tourneys.
I Know, it will never happen, but thats the format we all need.
i think it's been proven time and time again that the best way to develop top level talent is for all the best players to train together. 4 middle of the pack regional teams will accomplish nothing than to appease all the clubs that currently are playing second fiddle to MTA.
You want "solid teams". You need "outstanding teams" and IMO your idea would not and has not consistently provided that (there's always a team here or there that excels - but they are the rare exception).
After reading the current news about MTA/BT at Inside Minnesota Soccer site found some good news for the slumping local economy. Looks like the business of selling uniforms with all those MTA/BT brand logos perhaps needing to be replaced, could help the economy a bit. The bravado and grand schemes of owner and his hard to believe honest tone very similiar to good olde boys network of Bangu brand gone bad. What a role model and revelation for the soccer community and the true Bangu/MTA teeshirt believers discovering the organization and some of past principles would likewise implode. But am sure there are still plenty of indenial parents that still dont get it and believe all of MTA/BT brand hype can still now serve the Minnesota soccer community with intregrity and accountability. Keep in mind its still and always will be about the kids and the individual teaching coaching environment with the positive principles espoused by the majority of coaches in this organization and community clubs. The positives outcomes and qualities of athletic partication were undermined by screwed motives of a few money oriented principles in otherwise beneficial soccer organizations.
I believe at this time only the Pro Divison of Thunder has folded, the youth group MTA is still active is it not? The youth program was still funded by parents paying so not sure why they would change at this time?
I didn't see anything in the Strib about the Thunder troubles. Although I'm sure they'll have comprehensive coverage of 9-man football - 140 pound linemen and backs with 20 second 100 meter speed. That rag couldn't be less relevent.
I didn't see anything in the Strib about the Thunder troubles. Although I'm sure they'll have comprehensive coverage of 9-man football - 140 pound linemen and backs with 20 second 100 meter speed. That rag couldn't be less relevent.
Soccer is pretty much dead in Minnesota. There are better ways for kids to make use of their time these days. Minnesota really is a sports purgatory at all levels.
it's just the one same clown that goes on and on about high school soccer sucks, Class A is JV, MN club soccer can't beat anyone, etc... he/she's just trying to get you going. you can start the clock now and there will be another post within the next 24-48 hours saying the same thing.
2010 Wayzata will dominate from now on. Only EP will disrupt the apple cart occassionaly. Woodbury won't be heard of again any time soon. That's the way it's going to be so get used to it.
Right on! Even with "MsSoccer" on Woodbury's defense (supposed best defensive player in the state) wayzata was unstoppable and no match for the defensive lineup. Woodbury won't even have that next year. Defensive line way overrated. No excuses.
And Wayzata got shut out twice in their very tough CLC conference. Armstrong and Minnetonka were as good as half the teams in the state tourney. From here out the west suburban teams will begin winning state tourneys in AA for at least the next six to ten years with the feeders they have.
Damn. My dd is in fourth grade and we live in the east metro so I guess she should just quit playing soccer and take up lacrosse with the upcoming dominance that is so certain from the teams in the west. Maybe we should move?
"The Old Wings club before joining forces with Thunder had continued to have more and more problems and had less and less success in State Cup."-- What problems? Where are you getting your informaion?
Wayzata graduates 12 seniors. Woodbury graduates 6 Inferno players plus a few seniors. Edina graduates two all state forwards plus. Eagan graduates three Inferno players plus their best athlete.
Eden Prairie is definitely the odds on favorite for next year. Their junior class was their strongest. Eastview was also younger, and will be very tough next year. Woodbury will NOT disappear - they had an excellent sophomore class.
Regarding the young kids, the 7th grader from Orono was a nice Class A player, but wouldn't make the team for any team in the top 2/3 of most AA conferences. She may end up being a stellar player if she adds speed as she gets older.
Lakeville North had a good 9th grader (that was physically bigger than any other player on their team). I didn't see any freshman making an impact on Eagan, Woodbury, Wayzata, or Edina, or other top 15 or so AA teams. Sophomores from the top club teams in the state were solid contributors (not difference makers) for Woodbury, Eastview, Eagan,Eden Prairie, etc.
To make an impact in AA, you need to be an above average U17 Premier or MRL caliber player. To make a contribution, you need to be an exceptional freshman, or a Premier or MRL level sophomore with enough size and speed to play with Juniors and Seniors.
Going to any So Cal tournaments waste of time and money. Look at college rosters of California college teams. Very few region 2 players on them, less than 1-2 percent unless national odp team members. Calif. college coaches are bias, generally have huge egos for a minor non revenue sport and look down on midwest players. Let the stuck up club organizations and tournaments officials that sponsor those tournaments that have reaped the money for tournament fees from midwest teams in the past choke on their own foul stench and pocket filled, cactus grass joke of fields to play on.
so if i understand this correctly 11:55, any team that travels to CA is for the purpose of being recruited by CA schools? don't think so. first of all i would bet that most teams that go to out of state tournaments do so for the developmental aspects. secondly, coaches from accross the country attend so from a recruiting angle the goal is to be seen by everyone (not just CA coaches).
Lets be honest most coaches choose tournaments in warm places as a mini vacation that the parents subsidize. At least thats what I would do if I could get someone to pay me to coach and travel!!
lol 10:46, from November to early April how many tournaments are NOT in warm places? but then again why let the facts get in the way of a good old fashioned coach ripping.
12:22 agreed, however most of the "screwups" arise when their DD is playing as much as they think she should, not playing the correct position (usually forward), or not winning every game because the coach didn't turn all the unskilled/unathletic kids into all stars overnight.
so 1:20, in your opinion, what percent of the problems arise from the coach (lack of knowledge/experience, people skills, etc...) and what percentage arise from the parents (unrealistic expectations, lack of knowledge, etc...)?
1,477 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1477 of 1477Anon 10:20
Are you speaking of the BYU player who was pony tail slammed to the ground?
IMHO, it was that "foul" that sent public opinion over the edge.
1020- elbows and wardrobe adjustments have been a normal part of the game for a long time.
Would have loved to hear some of the talk between the players
Fact. The nucleus of the MTA Stars will play State Cup in 2010.
TP the smartest coach? Golly, I feel bad for the rest of them!
It's no coincidence that the Class AA high schools that consistently are ranked the highest and/or go to state also have the strongest youth programs. Combine a strong feeder system with high enrollment and you end up with a solid high school squad. You could put 20 different coaches at some of the schools and you would win the same amount of games. Conversely, you could take all the coaches at the "top" high school programs and have them coach the weakest metro programs and I'm not sure they would win any more games than their current coaches.
Agree completely.
Clowns. Edina makes it to state with virtually no feeder program.
BYU Video
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4628040&categoryid=2378529
actually Edina used to have a strong program (especially at the younger ages) which is where the core group of their recent state teams came from (old Edina Fusion etc...). These kids would migrate to the BNG/MTA, EP, WYZ, etc... once they hit their teenage years. Now they leave much earlier and younger. Very similar to what is now going on at WDB.
I would be surprised to see them back at state for awhile.
Unless 1:49 believes its "Simon Magic" that is the main reason behind their successes.
hello 4:17, check all the posts from the last two days.
4:21 Edina did earn one of the Premier spots at U-14 this year. Right along with EP,and MTA. I think that disputes your theory somewhat.
What does make a successful high school program? The head coach, the asst. coaches, the student leadership on the team, seniors, feeder programs, parental NON involvement, team experience, athletes, the list goes on.
I think SW does a pretty good job juggling all the intangibles year after year after year and getting them into the tournament.
7:30, U14 would be what - 8th graders? In Class A they could help, but not in Class AA. That group is at least 3 years out.
8:17, all of those are components, but IMO 80%-90% of the success of a high school program is the quality of the players.
Stick a fork in the MN Thunder pro team. Players all released on tues. No GM no head coach lots of outstanding debt.
what happened to the new group of investors that bought team last year? They managed to run the team into the ground in one year?
8:29 a.m. Age and talent in most instances important but challenging game experience and exposure just as important. One of best teams ever 2007 LS state champ had starter that just turned 14 and this years class A champ Orono had 7th grader who was one of best players in class A who could affect outcome of AA games too. Alot depends on what coaches allows young player to do and be exposed to and can also handle the pressure from older players and their parents. Quality of player is one thing, allowing that player to show it requires courage of the coach to stand by his convictions for the betterment of the team.
U14s do well because most HS ball is at a U14 level.
The MN Premier U-14 teams would probably beat 70% of the MN varsity high school teams.
lol - i bet not one of the Edina, EP, etc... U14 premier kids would have even made their respective high school varsity teams, but keep telling yourself whatever you want to believe.
U-14 teams would not win one game in either the Classic Lake or Lake Conferences. Also, the 7th grader would not be effective in either conference.
Girls soccer is really hard to watch....
9/11/09 8:04 AM - you are truly a genius.
You go to a website that blogs about soccer. You click on a link for '09 Girls HS Season, you bother to waste your valuable time reading posts and take it one step further, you right a post "Girls soccer is really hard to watch...". For you not only is it hard to watch, but you obviously enjoy wasting your valuable time going to a website to post such moronic comments. Get a life.
8:19 - I'm guessing his time is not that valuable.
8:19 - I'm guessing his time is not that valuable.
1:23 Agree too bad to see the Thunder go away. But... they were one of the worst marketing organizations around. Many many posts talked about the fact that the youth academy was a bad idea for marketing the team. It took every Bangu hater and converted them to a Thunder hater. It is hard to cheer for your opponent. I love Farve in purple but hated him as a Packer. Same deal with the Thunder, Play them on the field (hate them) and then be asked to support their Pro team later in the day?? That doesn't work.
Good bye MTA hello Bangu part 2.
615, Don't you mean Wings ( The main force(MA) behind Bangu's growth and move to the Thunder doesn't have the same role anymore. From what I've heard the Old wings coaches thought they knew better on how to run things then some of the Old Bangu guys. I for one think if that is true then the future for MTA will go kind of like Wings went before they joined Thunder. They will be a player but by no means the player they would have or could have been. The Old Wings club before joining forces with Thunder had continued to have more and more problems and had less and less success in State Cup. I see the same for whatever you call the new entity that emerges. I guess only time will tell!
Wingu Tsunami?
Banging United?
Both entities should be sure they hire a business manager.
The only reason Wings "merged" with Bangu/MTA is because they screwed up the finances. Both organizations offered above average soccer but were not business savy.
If.. MTA fails (financially) and it likely will, MN soccer will be given a great opportunity to provide a real soccer oppportunity to the high level player. We have 4x too many clubs in MN. MTA tried to fulfill a vision of excellence but the whole concept missed on a few key components. Bangu should focus on the north Wings (Part Deaux) in the west Dakota Rev in the south and St Croix in the east. 4 top regional clubs independent of one another in the 4 corners of the metro will help create at least 4 solid teams in each part of the Metro. St Croix and Rev will need to keep "pushing the bar" and Wings and The new Bangu will have to bring forth a big effort but the results could be great. CC's will continue to try, and often compete favorably but the top regional teams from the "big 4" will largely play regionally and in national tourneys.
I Know, it will never happen, but thats the format we all need.
i think it's been proven time and time again that the best way to develop top level talent is for all the best players to train together. 4 middle of the pack regional teams will accomplish nothing than to appease all the clubs that currently are playing second fiddle to MTA.
You want "solid teams". You need "outstanding teams" and IMO your idea would not and has not consistently provided that (there's always a team here or there that excels - but they are the rare exception).
ODP Thanksgiving InterReg rosters just released today - congrats to the girls representing MN and good luck!
After reading the current news about MTA/BT at Inside Minnesota Soccer site found some good news for the slumping local economy. Looks like the business of selling uniforms with all those MTA/BT brand logos perhaps needing to be replaced, could help the economy a bit. The bravado and grand schemes of owner and his hard to believe honest tone very similiar to good olde boys network of Bangu brand gone bad. What a role model and revelation for the soccer community and the true Bangu/MTA teeshirt believers discovering the organization and some of past principles would likewise implode. But am sure there are still plenty of indenial parents that still dont get it and believe all of MTA/BT brand hype can still now serve the Minnesota soccer community with intregrity and accountability. Keep in mind its still and always will be about the kids and the individual teaching coaching environment with the positive principles espoused by the majority of coaches in this organization and community clubs. The positives outcomes and qualities of athletic partication were undermined by screwed motives of a few money oriented principles in otherwise beneficial soccer organizations.
I believe at this time only the Pro Divison of Thunder has folded, the youth group MTA is still active is it not? The youth program was still funded by parents paying so not sure why they would change at this time?
I didn't see anything in the Strib about the Thunder troubles. Although I'm sure they'll have comprehensive coverage of 9-man football - 140 pound linemen and backs with 20 second 100 meter speed. That rag couldn't be less relevent.
I didn't see anything in the Strib about the Thunder troubles. Although I'm sure they'll have comprehensive coverage of 9-man football - 140 pound linemen and backs with 20 second 100 meter speed. That rag couldn't be less relevent.
Soccer is pretty much dead in Minnesota. There are better ways for kids to make use of their time these days. Minnesota really is a sports purgatory at all levels.
Any news on the all state game tonight
AA won 4-0. Boring game.
2:48...clearly, if soccer is dead, why are you on this blog? There are better ways for YOU to make use of your time. Shove off...
it's just the one same clown that goes on and on about high school soccer sucks, Class A is JV, MN club soccer can't beat anyone, etc...
he/she's just trying to get you going. you can start the clock now and there will be another post within the next 24-48 hours saying the same thing.
2010 Wayzata will dominate from now on. Only EP will disrupt the apple cart occassionaly. Woodbury won't be heard of again any time soon. That's the way it's going to be so get used to it.
Right on! Even with "MsSoccer" on Woodbury's defense (supposed best defensive player in the state) wayzata was unstoppable and no match for the defensive lineup. Woodbury won't even have that next year. Defensive line way overrated.
No excuses.
And Wayzata got shut out twice in their very tough CLC conference. Armstrong and Minnetonka were as good as half the teams in the state tourney. From here out the west suburban teams will begin winning state tourneys in AA for at least the next six to ten years with the feeders they have.
Damn. My dd is in fourth grade and we live in the east metro so I guess she should just quit playing soccer and take up lacrosse with the upcoming dominance that is so certain from the teams in the west. Maybe we should move?
10:58 - funny. what's funnier is having high school as the #1 priority (since it's a whopping 8 weeks out of the year)....
MTA will still run roughshod in 2010. There really aren't any serious challengers. There's MTA and then everybody else.
One big name coach is jockeying to take over a top club team. Watch who gets squeezed out.
Who?
which team?
"The Old Wings club before joining forces with Thunder had continued to have more and more problems and had less and less success in State Cup."-- What problems? Where are you getting your informaion?
9/11/09 7:29 PM -- Another recipe for success? NOT!
Wayzata graduates 12 seniors. Woodbury graduates 6 Inferno players plus a few seniors. Edina graduates two all state forwards plus. Eagan graduates three Inferno players plus their best athlete.
Eden Prairie is definitely the odds on favorite for next year. Their junior class was their strongest.
Eastview was also younger, and will be very tough next year. Woodbury will NOT disappear - they had an excellent sophomore class.
Regarding the young kids, the 7th grader from Orono was a nice Class A player, but wouldn't make the team for any team in the top 2/3 of most AA conferences. She may end up being a stellar player if she adds speed as she gets older.
Lakeville North had a good 9th grader (that was physically bigger than any other player on their team). I didn't see any freshman making an impact on Eagan, Woodbury, Wayzata, or Edina, or other top 15 or so AA teams. Sophomores from the top club teams in the state were solid contributors (not difference makers) for Woodbury, Eastview, Eagan,Eden Prairie, etc.
To make an impact in AA, you need to be an above average U17 Premier or MRL caliber player. To make a contribution, you need to be an exceptional freshman, or a Premier or MRL level sophomore with enough size and speed to play with Juniors and Seniors.
7:58 you pretty much sum it correctly.
Looks like a new show may be in town! NSC in talks with USL for a team other than the Thunder. How does this affect MTA? www.insidemnsoccer.co
Wayzata had a freshman start every game. She made the U14 WNT.
Need a club blog. HS soccer..ugh!
Stay off the HS blog.
Club soccer - saccharine.
Woodbury had 14 seniors
SSM U-17 girls at Surf Cup in San Diego over Thanksgiving weekend.
Kids would be better of just getting library cards.
Going to any So Cal tournaments waste of time and money. Look at college rosters of California college teams. Very few region 2 players on them, less than 1-2 percent unless national odp team members. Calif. college coaches are bias, generally have huge egos for a minor non revenue sport and look down on midwest players. Let the stuck up club organizations and tournaments officials that sponsor those tournaments that have reaped the money for tournament fees from midwest teams in the past choke on their own foul stench and pocket filled, cactus grass joke of fields to play on.
so if i understand this correctly 11:55, any team that travels to CA is for the purpose of being recruited by CA schools? don't think so. first of all i would bet that most teams that go to out of state tournaments do so for the developmental aspects. secondly, coaches from accross the country attend so from a recruiting angle the goal is to be seen by everyone (not just CA coaches).
Lets be honest most coaches choose tournaments in warm places as a mini vacation that the parents subsidize. At least thats what I would do if I could get someone to pay me to coach and travel!!
lol 10:46, from November to early April how many tournaments are NOT in warm places? but then again why let the facts get in the way of a good old fashioned coach ripping.
145, I'm glad you see things my way! Paid coaches are good for one thing and one thing only and that is Blame for when someones DD or DS loses.
And sometimes coaches should be blamed for their screwups?
12:22 agreed, however most of the "screwups" arise when their DD is playing as much as they think she should, not playing the correct position (usually forward), or not winning every game because the coach didn't turn all the unskilled/unathletic kids into all stars overnight.
in other cases the coach is simply screwed up and/or doesn't have interpersonal skills
so 1:20, in your opinion, what percent of the problems arise from the coach (lack of knowledge/experience, people skills, etc...) and what percentage arise from the parents (unrealistic expectations, lack of knowledge, etc...)?
no 1:20, i'd say 7% coach and 93% parents
In my experience it's more like 85% coach and 15% parents (maybe more coach).
sounds like 8:55 could be part of the 93%.....
and i bet it's also usually 85% the teacher and 15% the student.
Let me guess, 9:17's motto is "obey authority".
nope, but it's not "it's everyone's fault but mine or my DD's"....
???????????????
I agree with that
would not trust the coaches association web site and its stats, it has not been updated in a few years
"One big name coach is jockeying to take over a top club team. Watch who gets squeezed out."
13/11/09 4:10 PM -- Any update?
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