Somehow the previous post on these topics was deleted. Feel free to use this for ranting and raving about club topics, MRL, MYSA, MTA, SSM, ODP, MN Thunder, etc.
5:26, maybe you can reply to this question since you seem to have all the answers........why would they even want to leave EP? Can't EP offer them everything if not more?
You don't get it, 7:18. It's a perception/reality thing. EP can very likely offer everything if not more. But MTA promises the world to players, and the pitch is slick.
Nice little article that includes a little MN "boys" soccer history. Minnesota’s Max Lipset Making Home with Seattle Kitsap Puma’s http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/
Anonymous said... It is amusing after all the chatter this winter from EP parents, with MTA and SSM sometimes joining in as well, that none of them won the age group.
7/6/09 2:57 PM What a comment!! Does it really matter 2:57?? Most of them are off to bigger and better things. This is the problem, you all put way to much into winning meanless games.
MTA will continue to get bigger and better. The serious competitive players want to compete with the best against the best. MTA is the only club that offers this opportunity.
Well this year they aren't the best at U13 U14 U16 U17, on the girl's side at least. After MA leaves it will be even worse. So keep telling yourself that. Keep drinking your own Kool-aid.
4:44, I bet EDP, BHK, PSA, BVL, SCV, and MUS might be able to provide you with a few options. I mean, really, you truly think MTA is the ONLY place to develop as a player?
So what happens if these teams don't win state cup next year (as imo a few were upsets and EP imo might be the 3rd or 4th best U13 team). Is everyone now supposed to run to whoever won? If you are hoping to play in college being that Wayzata and St. Croix at U16 went to no showcase tournaments (that I am aware of) how is a player to be seen?
I think you should have just said anywhere but MTA.
6:26 - agreed, but that then begs the question......why doesn't everyone go there (somehow I think we are all going to hear about some slick marketing, etc...). Except for EP at U13 (with an asterisk), you just rattled off 6 clubs that didn't win one state cup. A couple of them won a title last year but failed this year (does that mean their training went downhill?).
It's not the coaching as there are outstanding coaches at virtually every club in the Twin Cities and I agree with your take on the propaganda, but it is who you are playing with. A player can only develop as much as those they are developing with. Development is accelerated when the day in-day out competition is higher caliber. Just my opinion.
Just wondering how that will playout in the MRL standings, as a game between 2 from the same club HAS to be scheduled in the first third of the season...not the typical MU way (let's see which team needs the win, so we'll reschedule and reschedule until the end...soooo many seasons of watching this happen, you would think they would get bored with it.) Hopefully MRL will stick to their own rule. Actually it is too bad, if they had just gone an played the outcome probably would have been the same and the Wildcats could have advanced...(clearly the better team of the 2). Ahhh...parents!
Look, happened upon a request for a score. Shouldn't have editorialized since Jedi are a very good team and have no axe to grind. MU is blessed with two good teams at this age group. As an MU parent, am proud of both. Was not attempting to bait any heated back and forth discussion.
Thank you for answering the request 4:02. And yes, both are talented teams, and MU has the potential to be a great club. However, my concern is for the scheduling of the game, and at this point with the history of playing against both MU teams through out the years, seeing the "scheduling games" that are played by MU. Not sure if it stems from managers or coaches, but it is what it is. Should this blatant disregard for the leagues rules be allowed to happen? I guess it is up to MRL now...
oh..and 11:41 - if your jumping in to comment just to see your writing on the wall, wait for something else you actually care about to come along. It's comments like this that bring the blog down.
Hey 4:02, try to ignore the negative bloggers, I really would like to hear more about the game. These two teams appear to have an interesting game every time they play (and they seem to be playing each other constantly this spring).
Who had the better play this time? What did you mean by lopsided, should the 2 have been higher or the 1, or neither? Just looking for talk about the game.
Geez, 7:23 and 7:28. Are you worried that having TWO MRL premier level teams may weaken MTA Blue's 2010 recruiting class?
One can expect the top Jedi players will flee that train wreck for the opportunity for more visibility with Wildcats through MRL. Combine the best of the two MU teams and add a strong coach, and MTA Blue doesn't stand out nearly as much anymore. Hopefully, MU will see the opportunity to make that happen and will let Jedi flounder.
Wow 10:50, sounds like you are condoning cheating, just so MU can compete with the big bad MTA. Isn't cheating, cheating? SO MANY MTA HATERS SAID THIS OVER AND OVER. WHY IS THIS SUDDENLY OK?
Maybe if MA and AK were the coaches, they would both get sanctioned, and both teams would suffer the consequences-nope, this is MU...
Why isn't the MU club investigating this and coming out with vicious sanctions? Remember? That is what you all said about MTA. You are a hypocrit, plain and simple, yes I said you are simple.
Could have been 5-0 Wildcats. They hit posts and missed open nets. They thoroughly dominated the 1st half and still did well with reserves on field for much of 2nd half. The Jedi keeper also made some great saves.
Where are all the people who were so outraged regarding the "cheating"?
Suddenly it's ok if a "community club" is involved and not the hated club.
Should MYSA, USYSA, and MRL sanction those teams, their coaches and fine the club? IMO if they decide to do those things to MA, AK, and MTA then they need to be consistent and do the same to any other coach, club and team member.
10:08, what in the world are you still festering on MTA's 13 incident for? If rules were broken it will be handled appropriately by the appropriate governing association/league. MTA is not getting "special" treatment as you assert. And, sorry to burst your bubble, this board holds no weight in any decisions made regardless of the team, club, or issue.
10:51, it's not that hard to understand. There have been a few posts (even apparently by MU parents) that have questioned the scheduling of games (outside of apparent rules) by two MU team that impact team placement for upcoming leagues. My guess is his frustration is if this had been done by two MTA teams (and the same scenario did exist a few years ago and the blog lit up) that there would have a considerable amount of outcry. Since it's not MTA, then no one either cares, they look the other way, or don't see the opportunity to take a swipe at MTA. Fairly easy to follow along. His concerns are less with the MTA U13's then they are with equal outrage. I agree to some extent, but then again, I didn't let my blood pressure rise over the U13 issue since it didn't impact me (as neither does this).
I am all for a truly strong and "united" MU team. It would be good for MN soccer, and quite frankly it is painful to watch the 2 teams self-implode/not get along with each other depending on what year it is. This is an incredibly talented age group for the boys, and all should support that. Not sure how that meshes with the clubs Minneapolis address mandate, but I'm sure they could make "exceptions" or for heavens sake, change their bylaws to reflect what MU really is (not so much a "community club")
I am NOT supportive of the manipulation/disregard for rules (aka cheating...there I said it) that I have seen happen with that club throughout the years. It is a horrible example for the boys and only teaches them that they can manipulate their way through life...or daddy will fix it, whatever.
Follow the rules, let the boys play, and golly...they might actually feel good about earning the spot where they are. All the best MU...
I have been around soccer for 25 years and the root cause of why Minnesota youth soccer lags other areas of the country is because the quality of coaching has not improved very much. It's been the same old coaches for the last decade. The game, player development,strategy and practice routine have all passed them by.To make matters worse it's all about the club not the player.Don't blame parents and kids. That just doesn't cut it anymore.
I doubt MTA 15's are scared. If MU Wildcats do well, and are promoted to MRL Premier, then MTA could actually have some leverage in getting a few games in MN. Allowing them to play Elite teams in their own element could only help them.
Along with actually having some competition in town, some MTA parents understand this is good for the boys development.
The problem is that it appears the points they received from the win over Jedi are not supposed to count unless they play them in the first 1/3 of the season. If you remove those points, MTA White is in 1st with the chance to be promoted, not Wildcats...
Not an MTA Blue 2:36. Get it right...who do you think this would affect? (check the bracket genius!)
But eitherway, it would be nice to see some high level competition in the state at this age level and the way MU is structured right now, it seems unlikely that it will truly happen even next year if things don't change.
Whatever 9:43. If players parents think they need to leave, that's a decision they make. It happens to every team & club every year..that's what tryouts are all about. But we've all watched the psychotic & dysfunctional antics of the Jedi & Wildcats, so I wouldn't keep too many fingers crossed that any MTA Blue players would be going to MU....plus, I don't think any of them live in Minneapolis. Darn.
Like MU enforces residency for their top teams. I think when they say Minneapolis, they mean the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, which basically covers from Fargo to Madison.
If MU pulls it together and pushes the parents out of the equation, they could assemble a great U15B team. I doubt MTA has much to worry about, though.
O.k....so anyone know the reason for the forfeit? Forgot it was on the schedule? didn't want to do the drive? H1N1 running rampant through the team?? I hope it is a good reason, otherwise it is just an embarrassment to the state...
Hard to say. Many different reasons given ranging from they were tired and the game didn't have an impact on them, to they decided to have a garage sale. Some say they didn't want to see the Wildcats advance.
to bad for mu. a jedi win wuldve led to premer spot for mu, which wuldve brot top players to mu. to bad mu teams cant get along. jedi is bad, and prolly wunt have won anyway.
For anyone who cares the U-13 MTA Blue girls play Dakota Rev this Thursday. I know many thought this would have been the State Cup final this year. It should be a very close game as I feel there is little question that these are the two best teams in MN.
9:54 MTA should have an easy time with the REV 13 girls. This is the same Rev team that got beat by EP at State Cup correct? The MTA girls are a much stronger team, they are undefeated in league play and just won the U-14 bracket at the Walmart All American cup. Prediction MTA 3 Rev 1.
I talked to a Jedi parent I work with. they had already traveled to Rockford to play once and the game got canceled. They had difficulty trying to reschedule and they had a fundraiser this past weekend for their trip to Brazil in July. Therefore, they did not play.
He also told me that they were notified that the MRL that the Jedi-Wildcats game was considered no contest, so the Jedi forfeit did not impact the final standings.
Also, in MN Premier League game last week the Jedi keeper saved two PKs in a Jedi win.
So, it sounds like the Jedi parents do not support the committments made to MRL league and are teaching their boys that if you can't win, just quit/avoid/go somewhere else... hhhmmmm maybe they are the reason for the boys' failure to develop.
Willful forfeit in MYSA leagues carries a big fine, and possible other sanctions. How does willful forfeit play in MRL?
And yes, the forfeit does still affect the standings, without the win for Galaxy the MTA white team would be in first. MU's distaste for MTA may have been a factor...
6.04 Forfeited Matches—First Division A First Division team that forfeits a game shall be subject to a fine become ineligible for the US Youth Soccer Director’s Cup, and may be expelled from the MRL, for the next season of participation.
3:49 If you take the stance that Moriarty and the State Cup committee did, no, the team who is forfeited to does not get the win, even though they could not stop the other team from forfeiting.
11:00 I doubt you are a coach, just a parent. You sound jealous. If you were a true coach, you would play for the competition and to develop your players.
My son's team played MRL (first division) for the first time this year, and had a fantastic experience. One weekend of games was hosted in Minnesota, and one weekend was in Rockford. There was great competition, they won more than they lost, and it was super preparation for State Cup. His team had no intent to win MRL, just to compete against strong teams they hadn't seen before. To that end, it was outstanding, and I know they'll do it again.
Some teams DO compete to win. It isn't a sin and it doesn't inhibit development. The fact is if a team refuses to play it should be a forfeit and the opponent should get the points, correct? And I am a coach, have been for years.
Great game between Rev13 & MTA Blue13. Final 0-0. Rev had a slight edge in conditioning and desire. MTA had a slight edge in athleticism and skills. Both had their chances. Looks like many years to come of a great rivalry.
Agree with your thoughts. Both teams are VERY good. what a game!! too bad for anyone who missed it. Rev had more opportunities, MTA better organization on the field. This is fun soccer. no parent issues, acceptable refs,(bad deal to be short a side on such a big game) and great play by the kids.
What a huge bummer that neither of these two teams are representing MN in SD next week. Good luck to EP just the same.
If i had to grade the game I would say Rev 52% to MTA 48% Yes it was that close... Great game.
Lots of other kids watching this game too. many Rev players and the MTA 11's. All learned how the game should be played.
5:18, agreed. If one team refuses to play, the other team should get the points. If both teams opt not to play, neither team should get points. That said, MRL's structure re: one offs makes it hard to determine if one or both teams don't want to play, though.
Saw a good game last night U18 MTW(Wings) vs WDB. WDB slightly better first half and MTW much more physical and aggressive in second. Saw some nice individual efforts on both sides, college coaches should be pleased if players stick with training. WDB wins 2-1. Thanks for the entertainment Ladies!
The sad thing about REV/MTA is they both play in the same MYSA league. Given the path they are on, they are going to end up tied at the end of the season and will revert to the final tiebreaker to resolve who wins the league (and the Premier slot). That tiebreaker: PKs of course! Oh the irony!
9:12 The good thing is barring something completely odd both teams should end up getting a premier spot as they move through districts and state. these are easily the two best teams in MN at this age. Still can't believe Rev lost to EP. What happenned there?
The Lightning have a great record the past few years. They tied Indiana earlier this year in a game they should have lost easily given the resumes of the players. Lighten up a bit and enjoy life. All that hate is bad for your health.
The Lightning has been in the top 2 in their division (admittedly a weak one) each year. This despite a great roster other than Smith. They have some big holes on defense and in the midfield which will haunt them against decent teams.
Why would you have high school coaches coaching pro teams. Storlien is the most overrated coach in the state. He's had a free ride for years. He's nothing but a gym coach.What the heck is the Thunder thinking?
5:11 - what are you suggesting? Go out and hire a local college coach? They would be no better than DS (who has turned down countless college offers in the past). Go out and hire a professional women's coach? For a W league team? All of these teams have little budgets (since there is not that much incoming revenue) so unless you want to pay for someone I would love to hear a better idea. Sounds more like the typical anti-DS rant disguised as a Thunder/Lightning criticism.
5:11, Your ignorance is stunning. Are you really that ignorant or just that full of hate? What other Minnesota coach has taken a team to USYS national championship game and also won a MSHSL State Championship? It's obvious what your problem is...
Why are you guys always talking about ancient history? The 1990s are long gone. What's important is what's being done to improve the quality of soccer in the future.
By the way..what is being done? Anybody have input on this?
Why are you guys always talking about ancient history? The 1990s are long gone. What's important is what's being done to improve the quality of soccer in the future.
By the way..what is being done? Anybody have input on this?
if you've ever done any construction work or home remodelling then you should know it is always easier to tear down than to build up. Could be the motto for many of the bloggers.
There has been a good discussion on one of the other threads about this topic. My feeling is things are improving but we are really only into the beginning of the second generation of truly national US soccer. It will take a few more generations to build coaching and tactics from experience. We are babies when compared to europe and south america. unfortunately that reality doesn't always sit well with the instant gratification society we live in.
When Amos stepped down on 07/22/08 the Thunder were sitting in last place with 17 points. We have 5 USL games and 10 points to go to match that result.
Here is a thought?? All you lightning fans that are on the CS band wagon, you all make her out to be the best thing since corn on the cobb, she scores she is a hero, but, why didnt she score v Chicago?? Why didnt she score v FCI?? Give the dues when its due, she was a GOAT both of those games. Either 1, prime has passed her, or, she really isnt all that? I think she is a goat.
The Lightning are tanking. Lost the last two games getting out scored 6-0. They really need a pro coach with experience at the pro level.The current coach is in way over his head.
So help me understand 10:05, we need a "pro" coach for the "amateur" lightning team (almost exclusively college kids with a few high school girls)? The team has never done worse than 3rd place in a division with FC Indiana (a professional team with an international roster). Are you offering to pay? Since you appear to be so knowledgeable on the subject, could you please toss out some suggested names?
I would bet that all the teams that annually finish behind the Lightning wouldn't mind having our "amateur" coach. I'm not saying he's done a good or bad job, just trying to point out the improbability of what you are hoping for.
All you get are excuses. If the Thunder are serious they should spend the money needed to upgrade the coaching. Wouldn't be a surprise if the ownership bails.
So if CS is so wonderful, why isnt she scoring in the 2 games they lost?? GOAT!! No hate, just fact. Forwards everywhere get all the ink when they score, but when they dont score and the team doesnt win, then, shouldnt the forwards get all the ink for being a GOAT??
I see the Thunder is for sale on E*bay. The "buy it now" price is $349.95, but the high bid is only $24.01. I wonder if you get the Lightning for free.
Big game for the Lightning on Wednesday night vs Chicago. Chicago is a great team with multiple players with international experience, the Lightning need to win to keep playoff hope alive, come out and support the team. Almost every players has ties to MN and the entire coaching staff does too. This is not an MTA team or a bunch of players from one club or college. It cuts across all the MN High School, Clubs, and Colleges. The team could use the support.
The parents of the Lightning players 15, 20 and 22 must be very proud to see all 3 of them playing the back line together at the same time!! FSU is getting a good one.
Sports are too expensive and overrated. Wanna play? Go to the park and start pickup games. Uniforms,travel $100 shoes et all. What a joke. If kids spent all this time on academics they'd be much better off in the future.
Bummer. Thunder couldn't beat a very average KC Wizards team that sat nearly all of their starters tonight. Oh well, time to resume the USL schedule and try to improve on that whopping 1-7-4 record.
Why don't they ever get relegated to a lower division? It's been years since they were good.
it would be nice if people went out to support the team.
if the Thunder folds and goes away we lose a lot in the community.
We would not have been able to see an entertaining game last nigh.
Its a chance for the kids to see the highest level of soccer in MN live. Next highest then will be the MIAC men or Premier mens league.
No Beckham game.
No US womens natl team game.
No high level games for referees in the area and that will limit the level they will get too
I know they are struggling but with limited attendance, the team will struggle to exist and if they struggle to exist and fold that is not good for MN soccer
MTA is seperate and will still exist. Maybe a name change again but will still exist so if your motivation is anger toward the youth teams that is to bad because it will not impact their existence.
1. Time for MTA to clean house and get rid of the five or six directors and the two strategic advisors and replace them with individuals who will make the players the #1 priority.
2. Hire professional coaches for the Thunder and Lightning.
3. Sign a couple of higher profile players.
Trying to draw fans on the cheap doesn't work.
Finishing 7th place and getting into the playoffs is a joke much like hockey where almost everybody makes the playoffs.
Off topic but looks like MSHL is trying to force 4 Classic Lake teams into the Lake Conf. Lake Conf said existing teams will bail and form their own conf. Classic kicked out Armstrong and now the Classic looks like they screwed themselves.
I can't figure out why the Lake Conference alignment continues to be an issue. Is everything messed up because no one wants to play Eden Prairie, or is the MSHSL the problem? Anyone have any idea?
MSHSL is trying to force the Lake to absorb 4 teams from West Metro. Long trips for everyone. Millea has described the Dakota conference a couple of times in columns. That will likely happen. EV,AV,EAG,RSMT,LS,LN and BVL will form that conference.
They will all stay or all get relegated no rule in plays sure the C1 teams pushing for them to be relegated and the premier teams pushing for a seven team league.
Why not use the tie breaking system they use to determine league winners if three teams are tied and relgate the lowest placed team.
b. U15-19: Vacancy(ies) in the U15 through U19 leagues will be filled by the C1 league winner(s) that advance the farthest in the MYSA Summer State Tournament. 2. Relegation a. The last place team in each Premier league is automatically relegated. If two teams tie in points for last place they will both be relegated. b. Premier teams that score 25 percent or lower of the total number of points possible for their league are automatically relegated.
1. To determine team standing within a league, the following procedures shall be used in sequence: a. Highest number of points. Win = 3 points, Tie = 1 point, Loss = 0 points. b. Winner of head-to-head competition (this criterion is not used if more than 2 teams are tied). c. Winner of most games. d. Goal differential (goals scored minus goals against) in all games, with a maximum of a 3-goal differential per game. e. Most goals scored in all games, with a maximum of 3 goals per game. f. Kicks from the penalty mark.
Looks like their is no rule in plays when three teams are tied for last.
Wow, that's harsh. Let's see there are 3 divisions at U15C1. That means the division winners would all be promoted to Premier. Look for a ton of player movement at that age level. By the standings there was parity among the current teams at the U15 Premier level this year.
Good luck to the first group of girls heading down to DeKalb on Monday. Hopefully MYSA can do a better job this year of keeping the pool lists up-to-date.
A little birdie tells me there will be a lot of changes on the girls side at U15 next year, the current U14 age group.
Both of this year's state cup finalists teams are breaking up. Players and parents from both Brusnville and MTA are done with their coaches. I understand some of the Bursnville girls are looking at SCV and some MTA players are looking at TCF.
Looks like the MTA empire is crumbling and the Burnsville rise is now sinking.
Hillarious!
If I was a coaching director or on a club board, I would invite all these girls to tryouts and finally combine talent at this age?
sounds like classic over-involved, over-bearing parents to me.
regarding mta, i kind of doubt that if true the breaking up of a middle of the road u14 state cup runner up team classifies as "crumbling". sounds more like you searching for any "crumb" to take an envious swipe.
Hopefully some club steps up to give these girls at u14 a better option. Many talented girls at this age, spread across MTA, Tonka, Burnsville not getting the right coaching or pooling of talent.
I'm not sure about the Burnsville rumor, but I do know about the MTA rumor, my niece plays for that team.
The whole team is not leaving. My brother told me there are a few parents who may have an unrealistic veiw of their daughters' abilities and are blaming the coach and trying to get him to not come back next year. The rest of the team came to the defense of the coach.
I understand three or four may leave, but it won't have a dramatic impact on the team.
105, Most of the parents on that team have an unrealistic view of their daughters abilities. They are a group of above average players with no superstars. However, with that being said the gap between their top players and there bottom players is significantly less than all other teams at that age group.
I have heard the Burnsville rumors and what I heard was that there was a lot of complaining about even playing time from kids that came over from another club and that they had to play kids more evenly during regions.
829 - Woodbury is in second to last place in premier. If you consolidated talent at Woodbury and it was done without politics you would end up with a Woodbury team with just a couple Woodbury kids.
1012 are you disagreeing with 901? If so what are you basing your comment off of? The team has underperformed, that is a fact. If you are going to argue the talent is not there OK, but I think most people would disagree with you.
1:09 - based on your last comment every team (unless they win everything) underperforms. with no basis for your POV sounds more like you just want to rip. Enjoy the holiday.
LOL 127 your skin seems rather thin. Not going to go into detail regarding this. Sorry if that disappoints you. Simply think the team could have done better. We will have to agree to disagree. Have a wonderful holiday.
the three teams tied for last have 40% of available points, which is not a typical last place total. I'm not aware of any single team being relegated with 40% of points, much less half of a very competitive league.
Since there is no rule in place to cover this unusual result, and the three teams are clearly competitive at Premier, promoting the top C1 team from Summer State and having a seven team league would seem to make a lot of sense.
If they follow the rules, all three of those teams will be eliminated.
The last place team is automatically eliminated. If teams tie for last, they are all eliminated.
Unless they change the rules, it looks like three teams will be promoted.
2. Relegation a. The last place team in each Premier league is automatically relegated. If two teams tie in points for last place they will both be relegated.
I am amazed at the lack of interest in ODP for the younger ages. Age 13 girls this year had very weak turnout. I understand No players from MTA blue or white tried out and none from DKT Rev u-13's top team even tried out. those three teams have the bulk of the top players in this state. Anyone from EP,Edina,Tonka,cottage grove,North metro have participation in the tryouts? Where did the ODP players come from this year?
7:54 - i think some folks are coming to the conclusion that ODP might not be necessary (and very expensive) until regional teams are actually selected in DeKalb. Also, not sure if this applies, but some U13's are '96's and some are '97's as ODP goes by birth year not USYS soccer age.
754 - Several players from the MTA blue and white tried out at u13 but chose not to participated due to other soccer opportunities (tournaments, camps, etc). The MYSA playoffs also had a bearing as they were the same time as the camp. That being said a couple of player did get selected and are participating.
If the play-offs and ODP camp is at the same time, another brilliant scheduling job by MYSA.
People, we have to let MYSA know that we are not happy with their inability to look at a calendar and avoid scheduling play-offs during other important soccer events. If no one does, they WILL continue.
ODP camp affects a relatively small group of players at any one time. I see no reason for MYSA to plan around "the few". Our kids / teams / parents have to learn how to prioritize. This is the same kind of thinking that leads to grumbling about prom and State Cup. No one is entitled to it all.
I credit the MTA 13 girls who chose to keep their priorities straight by playing for their team vs selfishly going to the ODP camp when their team is the verge of making premier status. The White team has already locked a premier spot so their participation at regional camp seems more logical.
My experience with ODP (especially at the younger ages) is that it rewards the more selfish player by nature of the evaluation process. I would bet big that the MTA blue 13's would destroy the MN selections to regional camp. If MTA blue and white team along with the REV top team have no participants on the ODP group I would find it hard to believe it would be much of a game. It amazes me that any u-13 player would even consider leaving their team to go to this camp when their team is working through the district and regional playoffs with a chance to go premier.
SOCMOM, you and your way of thinking are why MN soccer has not yet caught up to other states. The "few" are what we are not producing because of these conflicts, the good teams have good players, ODP wants the good players to train and improve. If their team has other priorities and goals, many will not put themselves before their coach or teammates. MYSA should not put them in this type of position-think things through, with the use of a calendar.
ODP communicates their dates in plenty of time to work around, MRL does too, but somehow, only prom is considered on the girls side?
Please we need leadership, not lazy and defensive.
Yup and all the ladies on the USA Women's National Team must be jokes too since most of them went through and were identified through ODP. Maybe CS wasn't peaking at the right time?
MN kids do not get the same looks as other states. True, but because our State Association does not do a very good job getting the best players, or training them. It's odd that club coaches do not appear to be included in the process of choosing the "best" players.
It's also odd, that the coaches chosen for ODP do not seem to have much success coaching. Do you really have to have an accent to be a good coach? Do we really think that kids born in MN, or for that matter the US, are not as good as kids who were born elsewhere and went to the same training as the MN kids?
Come on, there is a disproportionate amount of foreign kids who are chosen each year. (No, I'm not upset because my child got cut-he has made the team each year.) Many are erxtremely individually skilled, and would do well in juggling contests, but do not perform at top levels when the games start.
Seems like the identification is not completely working.
It also is not enough to train once per week for 4-5 weeks and expect these kids to play well together. Many states train, and PLAY together all throughout the year. Then perform well at Regional camp and get additional opportunities the MN kids don't.
I dont see any problem?? If you look at the USWNT, all players went thru ODP, isnt the US Womens team(s) the best in the world?? Remember, ODP is about identification, not to get better. Its the clubs that train the players and the blame if players are NOT getting better should be held at the club level. Also, in the same breath, shouldnt the players be held to some accountability as well?
As for all this team stuff, that is way over rated, what is YOUR TEAM going to do for you when your choosing a college?? Will your team be there for you when you go visit schools?? If you are picked to go to ESP or Nike 50, your saying you wont go because of your team?? Good mighty!!
I agree, Socmom, your off keel here, you SHOULD be training that small % of players that can break a game open. That is what the next level is looking for. Not robots.
CS, she isnt the next coming. She had shots, she has been called into camps, and guess what, she wasnt what they were looking for. KUs program was to get 21 the ball, plain and simple. If you stopped 21 at KU, then you stopped the team. Question, how many final 4s did KU go to in her 4 yrs?? I think the best was a Sweet 16? Give it a rest.
there are also no burnsville u14 premier girls players at ODP (94-96). does anyone really believe $750 for the region camp is worth it? that could pay for 2-3 normal camps plus some private training.
looking through the soccer times 'tryout issue' its funny how many 'community clubs' are starting to sound like MTA (or the other 'soccer clubs'). despite all the crap that has gone on it looks like same old, same old at tryouts. MTA will be strong in the east, emerging in the west, weak in the south. they will still have most of the top teams in the state and will still have a slew of 'B' level players with unrealistic parents that think having little susie play on an MTA c2/c3 team will one day turn her into a star. it will be interesting to see if MA and AK can still recruit as well given this year's experience. its almost time for the DOCs and Club Coaches to put on their fanciest recruiting clothes and extra shot of old spice for the soccer moms! go get em boys!
1035, It's the line of bull they feed B Level kids parents about some kids being on the second team one year and making the top team the next year. They use the same speach every year at tryouts to get the parents to hold onto their dreams of having an elite soccer player to keep them in their club to keep the money coming in. The funny thing is most of them buy into it and guess what little susie doesn't get promoted. 99% of the new kids on the top teams come from outside the club. The only exceptions would be when the roster increases when they go from 8v8 to 11v11. If you don't make it then it most likely will never happen.
Not true about Burnsville girls not doing ODP. There is a girl on the 94 team from Burnsville, and others did attend tryouts. Not sure of all the girls on the 94 team, but the breakdown includes: 5 -6 (?) from MTA U15 White team 1 from MTA U15 Blue team 2 or 3 from St. Croix U15 team 3 from MTA U14 Blue team 1 from Woodbury U14 team 1 from Burnsville U14 team 1 from Eden Prairie (?) and a Goalie from NSSA (?)
Sorry for inaccuracies but this is a rough breakdown.
1,009 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 1009 Newer› Newest»It is amusing after all the chatter this winter from EP parents, with MTA and SSM sometimes joining in as well, that none of them won the age group.
MTA will promise them college exposure and the new league in which they will be in the bottom division (20)of. Here comes the sales pitch.
We didn't even make it to the state cup finals but we had lots of injuries you need to play here if you are going to play in college.
5:26, maybe you can reply to this question since you seem to have all the answers........why would they even want to leave EP? Can't EP offer them everything if not more?
You don't get it, 7:18. It's a perception/reality thing. EP can very likely offer everything if not more. But MTA promises the world to players, and the pitch is slick.
Nice little article that includes a little MN "boys" soccer history.
Minnesota’s Max Lipset Making Home with Seattle Kitsap Puma’s
http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/
Anonymous said...
It is amusing after all the chatter this winter from EP parents, with MTA and SSM sometimes joining in as well, that none of them won the age group.
7/6/09 2:57 PM
What a comment!! Does it really matter 2:57?? Most of them are off to bigger and better things. This is the problem, you all put way to much into winning meanless games.
MTA will continue to get bigger and better. The serious competitive players want to compete with the best against the best. MTA is the only club that offers this opportunity.
Anyone know the result of the MRL game U15B between MU Jedi and MU Wildcats??
Well this year they aren't the best at U13 U14 U16 U17, on the girl's side at least. After MA leaves it will be even worse. So keep telling yourself that. Keep drinking your own Kool-aid.
You're kidding yourself if you think they aren't the best at U13.
They had 3 of 4 semi finalists before Abboud's stunt.
U12's knocked off Edina yesterday........and not in a PK shootout.
8:13, Yep. That's exaactly what I'm saying. Parents don't know any better. There ARE other options out there.
Looks like EP's draw isn't too bad for regionals:
Indiana - Carmel United
Iowa - JUSC
Wisconsin - FC Milwaukee (via U13 wild card - state runner up)
Good luck to them in SD.
4:39 - please tell us, what are all these other options?
EP at U13, Burnsville at U14, Wayzata, EP or St Croix and U16, Woodbury or St Croix at U17
4:44, I bet EDP, BHK, PSA, BVL, SCV, and MUS might be able to provide you with a few options. I mean, really, you truly think MTA is the ONLY place to develop as a player?
So what happens if these teams don't win state cup next year (as imo a few were upsets and EP imo might be the 3rd or 4th best U13 team). Is everyone now supposed to run to whoever won? If you are hoping to play in college being that Wayzata and St. Croix at U16 went to no showcase tournaments (that I am aware of) how is a player to be seen?
I think you should have just said anywhere but MTA.
6:26 - agreed, but that then begs the question......why doesn't everyone go there (somehow I think we are all going to hear about some slick marketing, etc...). Except for EP at U13 (with an asterisk), you just rattled off 6 clubs that didn't win one state cup. A couple of them won a title last year but failed this year (does that mean their training went downhill?).
If you really truly believe there are no options or are so tunnel into thinking MTA is your only option then you have drowned in the Kool Aid.
There are plenty of clubs with great coaches...find a good coach and worry less about all the club propaganda on both sides.
It's not the coaching as there are outstanding coaches at virtually every club in the Twin Cities and I agree with your take on the propaganda, but it is who you are playing with. A player can only develop as much as those they are developing with. Development is accelerated when the day in-day out competition is higher caliber. Just my opinion.
MN should win several regional titles especially since several of the top teams won't be participating.
Did MU Jedi & Wildcats play their MRL game? Still no scores posted...
Wildcats won 2-1 in a lopsided game not reflected in score.
Thanks Wildcat dad I am guessing your son was also flawless in his play as unusual and dominated.
Just wondering how that will playout in the MRL standings, as a game between 2 from the same club HAS to be scheduled in the first third of the season...not the typical MU way (let's see which team needs the win, so we'll reschedule and reschedule until the end...soooo many seasons of watching this happen, you would think they would get bored with it.) Hopefully MRL will stick to their own rule. Actually it is too bad, if they had just gone an played the outcome probably would have been the same and the Wildcats could have advanced...(clearly the better team of the 2). Ahhh...parents!
Sorry if score post sounded self-serving but happen to be a parent of player on another MU team who saw the game.
1:47 Tell us about it. Was the score opposite of the play? Were there misses? Excellent saves?
Look, happened upon a request for a score. Shouldn't have editorialized since Jedi are a very good team and have no axe to grind. MU is blessed with two good teams at this age group. As an MU parent, am proud of both. Was not attempting to bait any heated back and forth discussion.
Sorry, didn't realize it was so touchy.
Thank you for answering the request 4:02. And yes, both are talented teams, and MU has the potential to be a great club. However, my concern is for the scheduling of the game, and at this point with the history of playing against both MU teams through out the years, seeing the "scheduling games" that are played by MU. Not sure if it stems from managers or coaches, but it is what it is. Should this blatant disregard for the leagues rules be allowed to happen? I guess it is up to MRL now...
oh..and 11:41 - if your jumping in to comment just to see your writing on the wall, wait for something else you actually care about to come along. It's comments like this that bring the blog down.
Hey 4:02, try to ignore the negative bloggers, I really would like to hear more about the game. These two teams appear to have an interesting game every time they play (and they seem to be playing each other constantly this spring).
Who had the better play this time? What did you mean by lopsided, should the 2 have been higher or the 1, or neither? Just looking for talk about the game.
Geez, 7:23 and 7:28. Are you worried that having TWO MRL premier level teams may weaken MTA Blue's 2010 recruiting class?
One can expect the top Jedi players will flee that train wreck for the opportunity for more visibility with Wildcats through MRL. Combine the best of the two MU teams and add a strong coach, and MTA Blue doesn't stand out nearly as much anymore. Hopefully, MU will see the opportunity to make that happen and will let Jedi flounder.
I am not 7:23 or 7:28.
Wow 10:50, sounds like you are condoning cheating, just so MU can compete with the big bad MTA. Isn't cheating, cheating? SO MANY MTA HATERS SAID THIS OVER AND OVER. WHY IS THIS SUDDENLY OK?
Maybe if MA and AK were the coaches, they would both get sanctioned, and both teams would suffer the consequences-nope, this is MU...
Why isn't the MU club investigating this and coming out with vicious sanctions? Remember? That is what you all said about MTA. You are a hypocrit, plain and simple, yes I said you are simple.
Could have been 5-0 Wildcats. They hit posts and missed open nets. They thoroughly dominated the 1st half and still did well with reserves on field for much of 2nd half. The Jedi keeper also made some great saves.
4:20 Thank You for the info.
Where are all the people who were so outraged regarding the "cheating"?
Suddenly it's ok if a "community club" is involved and not the hated club.
Should MYSA, USYSA, and MRL sanction those teams, their coaches and fine the club? IMO if they decide to do those things to MA, AK, and MTA then they need to be consistent and do the same to any other coach, club and team member.
Doesn't sound so good anymore does it!
10:08, what in the world are you still festering on MTA's 13 incident for? If rules were broken it will be handled appropriately by the appropriate governing association/league. MTA is not getting "special" treatment as you assert. And, sorry to burst your bubble, this board holds no weight in any decisions made regardless of the team, club, or issue.
10:51, it's not that hard to understand. There have been a few posts (even apparently by MU parents) that have questioned the scheduling of games (outside of apparent rules) by two MU team that impact team placement for upcoming leagues. My guess is his frustration is if this had been done by two MTA teams (and the same scenario did exist a few years ago and the blog lit up) that there would have a considerable amount of outcry. Since it's not MTA, then no one either cares, they look the other way, or don't see the opportunity to take a swipe at MTA. Fairly easy to follow along. His concerns are less with the MTA U13's then they are with equal outrage. I agree to some extent, but then again, I didn't let my blood pressure rise over the U13 issue since it didn't impact me (as neither does this).
10:50 - 7:23/7:28 here....
I am all for a truly strong and "united" MU team. It would be good for MN soccer, and quite frankly it is painful to watch the 2 teams self-implode/not get along with each other depending on what year it is. This is an incredibly talented age group for the boys, and all should support that. Not sure how that meshes with the clubs Minneapolis address mandate, but I'm sure they could make "exceptions" or for heavens sake, change their bylaws to reflect what MU really is (not so much a "community club")
I am NOT supportive of the manipulation/disregard for rules (aka cheating...there I said it) that I have seen happen with that club throughout the years. It is a horrible example for the boys and only teaches them that they can manipulate their way through life...or daddy will fix it, whatever.
Follow the rules, let the boys play, and golly...they might actually feel good about earning the spot where they are. All the best MU...
I have been around soccer for 25 years and the root cause of why Minnesota youth soccer lags other areas of the country is because the quality of coaching has not improved very much. It's been the same old coaches for the last decade. The game, player development,strategy and practice routine have all passed them by.To make matters worse it's all about the club not the player.Don't blame parents and kids. That just doesn't cut it anymore.
have any of the ODP teams been posted yet?
Wow. MTA Blues 15s are scared!!! The competition is coming, baby! Go MUUUUUUUU!
I doubt MTA 15's are scared. If MU Wildcats do well, and are promoted to MRL Premier, then MTA could actually have some leverage in getting a few games in MN. Allowing them to play Elite teams in their own element could only help them.
Along with actually having some competition in town, some MTA parents understand this is good for the boys development.
The problem is that it appears the points they received from the win over Jedi are not supposed to count unless they play them in the first 1/3 of the season. If you remove those points, MTA White is in 1st with the chance to be promoted, not Wildcats...
Not an MTA Blue 2:36. Get it right...who do you think this would affect? (check the bracket genius!)
But eitherway, it would be nice to see some high level competition in the state at this age level and the way MU is structured right now, it seems unlikely that it will truly happen even next year if things don't change.
By George! I think 3:37's got it!!
ODP selection emails have been sent.
MTA Blue is scared!!! Now the disgruntled players who've been footing the bills have an alternative!!!
Whatever 9:43. If players parents think they need to leave, that's a decision they make. It happens to every team & club every year..that's what tryouts are all about. But we've all watched the psychotic & dysfunctional antics of the Jedi & Wildcats, so I wouldn't keep too many fingers crossed that any MTA Blue players would be going to MU....plus, I don't think any of them live in Minneapolis. Darn.
Like MU enforces residency for their top teams. I think when they say Minneapolis, they mean the Minneapolis/St. Paul area, which basically covers from Fargo to Madison.
If MU pulls it together and pushes the parents out of the equation, they could assemble a great U15B team. I doubt MTA has much to worry about, though.
Watch for more consolidation at U15B. Three teams will emerge as contenters in 2010. The platting has already begun.
Does platting mean politics?
Anyone else hear that Jedi decided to forfeit their MRL game today?
Wouldn't a Jedi forfeit allow the Illinois team to jump past the MU Wildcats and win 1st place in the league?
Ouch!
That's teamwork for you. For anyone thinking that Jedi would want to help the Wildcats out, here is your answer.
Jedi did not forfeit. They just really stink. Again, if they combine the best MU players on to one team, that team will rock.
They didn't play the game. The posted score was a forfeit score.
O.k....so anyone know the reason for the forfeit? Forgot it was on the schedule? didn't want to do the drive? H1N1 running rampant through the team?? I hope it is a good reason, otherwise it is just an embarrassment to the state...
they DID play the game. Wildcats won.
12:50 - we are asking about the MRL last game, MU Jedi vs Galaxy93/94 in Madison....any idea on why the forfeit??
Hard to say. Many different reasons given ranging from they were tired and the game didn't have an impact on them, to they decided to have a garage sale. Some say they didn't want to see the Wildcats advance.
Thanks for the response 3:24!
to bad for mu. a jedi win wuldve led to premer spot for mu, which wuldve brot top players to mu. to bad mu teams cant get along. jedi is bad, and prolly wunt have won anyway.
two words. SPELL CHECK
Spelling/texting aside, you are spot on 4:16. It is unfortunate.
So how does a community U17 premier coach also get to coach at the same community high school at the varsity level?
For anyone who cares the U-13 MTA Blue girls play Dakota Rev this Thursday. I know many thought this would have been the State Cup final this year. It should be a very close game as I feel there is little question that these are the two best teams in MN.
5:23 - coaches opposite sex at HS than what they coach at premier? Or, none of the players on premier play HS varsity? Do tell more....
9:54 MTA should have an easy time with the REV 13 girls. This is the same Rev team that got beat by EP at State Cup correct? The MTA girls are a much stronger team, they are undefeated in league play and just won the U-14 bracket at the Walmart All American cup. Prediction MTA 3 Rev 1.
I talked to a Jedi parent I work with. they had already traveled to Rockford to play once and the game got canceled. They had difficulty trying to reschedule and they had a fundraiser this past weekend for their trip to Brazil in July. Therefore, they did not play.
He also told me that they were notified that the MRL that the Jedi-Wildcats game was considered no contest, so the Jedi forfeit did not impact the final standings.
Also, in MN Premier League game last week the Jedi keeper saved two PKs in a Jedi win.
So, it sounds like the Jedi parents do not support the committments made to MRL league and are teaching their boys that if you can't win, just quit/avoid/go somewhere else... hhhmmmm maybe they are the reason for the boys' failure to develop.
Willful forfeit in MYSA leagues carries a big fine, and possible other sanctions. How does willful forfeit play in MRL?
And yes, the forfeit does still affect the standings, without the win for Galaxy the MTA white team would be in first. MU's distaste for MTA may have been a factor...
I wouldn't worry about MRL "commitments". They decide who wins the leagues and it seems to be very "arbitrary".
MRL rules
6.04 Forfeited Matches—First Division
A First Division team that forfeits a game shall be subject to a fine become ineligible for the US Youth Soccer Director’s Cup, and may be expelled from the MRL, for the next season of participation.
Shouldn't the team that receives the forfeit get the points for a win?
3:20 What are you talking about?
"They decide who wins the league"
The players decide who wins the league, unless you willfully forfeit to cause a team from your state to lose the lead they had ...
3:49 If you take the stance that Moriarty and the State Cup committee did, no, the team who is forfeited to does not get the win, even though they could not stop the other team from forfeiting.
Exactly! It happens regularly in MRL. It is wrong.
Coach is coaching same sex as they coach at the HS, yes at varsity level
Same thing happened to the U17 St.Croix Girls in MRL, the lack of consistency in the application of the rules is bull***t.
As a coach and parent of a player I would opt not to participate in MRL in the future, mainly for the reasons alluded to here.
11:00 I doubt you are a coach, just a parent. You sound jealous. If you were a true coach, you would play for the competition and to develop your players.
My son's team played MRL (first division) for the first time this year, and had a fantastic experience. One weekend of games was hosted in Minnesota, and one weekend was in Rockford. There was great competition, they won more than they lost, and it was super preparation for State Cup. His team had no intent to win MRL, just to compete against strong teams they hadn't seen before. To that end, it was outstanding, and I know they'll do it again.
Some teams DO compete to win. It isn't a sin and it doesn't inhibit development. The fact is if a team refuses to play it should be a forfeit and the opponent should get the points, correct? And I am a coach, have been for years.
Great game between Rev13 & MTA Blue13. Final 0-0. Rev had a slight edge in conditioning and desire. MTA had a slight edge in athleticism and skills. Both had their chances. Looks like many years to come of a great rivalry.
Rev has been playing well. 2 decisive victories over MTA U12 Blue and this tie with the 13's in the past few weeks.
Larry,
Agree with your thoughts. Both teams are VERY good. what a game!! too bad for anyone who missed it. Rev had more opportunities, MTA better organization on the field.
This is fun soccer. no parent issues, acceptable refs,(bad deal to be short a side on such a big game) and great play by the kids.
What a huge bummer that neither of these two teams are representing MN in SD next week. Good luck to EP just the same.
If i had to grade the game I would say Rev 52% to MTA 48% Yes it was that close... Great game.
Lots of other kids watching this game too. many Rev players and the MTA 11's. All learned how the game should be played.
FUN
5:18, agreed. If one team refuses to play, the other team should get the points. If both teams opt not to play, neither team should get points. That said, MRL's structure re: one offs makes it hard to determine if one or both teams don't want to play, though.
Saw a good game last night U18 MTW(Wings) vs WDB. WDB slightly better first half and MTW much more physical and aggressive in second. Saw some nice individual efforts on both sides, college coaches should be pleased if players stick with training.
WDB wins 2-1. Thanks for the entertainment Ladies!
The sad thing about REV/MTA is they both play in the same MYSA league. Given the path they are on, they are going to end up tied at the end of the season and will revert to the final tiebreaker to resolve who wins the league (and the Premier slot). That tiebreaker: PKs of course! Oh the irony!
9:12 The good thing is barring something completely odd both teams should end up getting a premier spot as they move through districts and state. these are easily the two best teams in MN at this age. Still can't believe Rev lost to EP. What happenned there?
Thunder and Lightning
It's time for ownership to get serious. The men are in the tank again and the women blew another game they should have won.
It's time they hire some professional coaches. High school coaches just don't cut it at this level.
You want fans in the stands get off the cheap and hire some pros.
...or just call it a day. Bad minor league soccer doesn't work in Minnesota.
The Lightning have a great record the past few years.
They tied Indiana earlier this year in a game they should have lost easily given the resumes of the players.
Lighten up a bit and enjoy life. All that hate is bad for your health.
The Lightning has been in the top 2 in their division (admittedly a weak one) each year. This despite a great roster other than Smith. They have some big holes on defense and in the midfield which will haunt them against decent teams.
After staying up to watch the Thunder play in Portland late last night, I now know why the Thunder get ripped on. Portland rips away 5-1.
Lightning = yawn. Girls' soccer is just plain dull. I'm off to watch teh US Open.
Why would you have high school coaches coaching pro teams. Storlien is the most overrated coach in the state. He's had a free ride for years. He's nothing but a gym coach.What the heck is the Thunder thinking?
5:11 - what are you suggesting?
Go out and hire a local college coach? They would be no better than DS (who has turned down countless college offers in the past).
Go out and hire a professional women's coach? For a W league team? All of these teams have little budgets (since there is not that much incoming revenue) so unless you want to pay for someone I would love to hear a better idea.
Sounds more like the typical anti-DS rant disguised as a Thunder/Lightning criticism.
5:11,
Your ignorance is stunning.
Are you really that ignorant or just that full of hate?
What other Minnesota coach has taken a team to USYS national championship game and also won a MSHSL State Championship?
It's obvious what your problem is...
Some folks are satisfied with mediocrity and excuses.The Master of The Excuse resides in Minnesota.
Why are you guys always talking about ancient history? The 1990s are long gone. What's important is what's being done to improve the quality of soccer in the future.
By the way..what is being done? Anybody have input on this?
Why are you guys always talking about ancient history? The 1990s are long gone. What's important is what's being done to improve the quality of soccer in the future.
By the way..what is being done? Anybody have input on this?
if you've ever done any construction work or home remodelling then you should know it is always easier to tear down than to build up. Could be the motto for many of the bloggers.
There has been a good discussion on one of the other threads about this topic. My feeling is things are improving but we are really only into the beginning of the second generation of truly national US soccer. It will take a few more generations to build coaching and tactics from experience. We are babies when compared to europe and south america. unfortunately that reality doesn't always sit well with the instant gratification society we live in.
When Amos stepped down on 07/22/08 the Thunder were sitting in last place with 17 points.
We have 5 USL games and 10 points to go to match that result.
Ok ok I'll bite...who are some of the major colleges that offered DS a head coaching position that he turned down?
Westsider
Waiting
Why don't you ask him when you see him next? Don't rely on 2nd hand information.
Can you believe him?
Here is a thought?? All you lightning fans that are on the CS band wagon, you all make her out to be the best thing since corn on the cobb, she scores she is a hero, but, why didnt she score v Chicago?? Why didnt she score v FCI?? Give the dues when its due, she was a GOAT both of those games. Either 1, prime has passed her, or, she really isnt all that? I think she is a goat.
Anon 8:26
Caroline Smith's record at Kansas speaks for itself.
8:26,
Let go of your hate. It's not healthy.
The Lightning are tanking. Lost the last two games getting out scored 6-0. They really need a pro coach with experience at the pro level.The current coach is in way over his head.
That's a scary thought, saying a coach is way over his coaching an amateur girls' team. And he's supposed to be one of our best? Yikes.
So help me understand 10:05, we need a "pro" coach for the "amateur" lightning team (almost exclusively college kids with a few high school girls)?
The team has never done worse than 3rd place in a division with FC Indiana (a professional team with an international roster). Are you offering to pay? Since you appear to be so knowledgeable on the subject, could you please toss out some suggested names?
I would bet that all the teams that annually finish behind the Lightning wouldn't mind having our "amateur" coach. I'm not saying he's done a good or bad job, just trying to point out the improbability of what you are hoping for.
just another DS-hater (their numbers are right below the MA-haters).
All you get are excuses. If the Thunder are serious they should spend the money needed to upgrade the coaching. Wouldn't be a surprise if the ownership bails.
So if CS is so wonderful, why isnt she scoring in the 2 games they lost?? GOAT!! No hate, just fact. Forwards everywhere get all the ink when they score, but when they dont score and the team doesnt win, then, shouldnt the forwards get all the ink for being a GOAT??
I see the Thunder is for sale on E*bay. The "buy it now" price is $349.95, but the high bid is only $24.01. I wonder if you get the Lightning for free.
3:40 - could you please reference all of the CS is wonderful posts and why to such extremes to slam someone?
The 2009/2010 ECNL schedules are set. Next year's MTA U15 and U17 are in the second flight, U16 is in the top flight.
Here is the link to the schedules http://www.usclubsoccer.org/Files/ECNL%202009-10%20-%20Master%20schedules%20and%20flights-opponents.xls
So by "league" we mean "tournaments" ?
good luck to the teams heading to Indiana this weekend. safe travels and best of luck to all.
So, how long before the Thunder folds?
Big game for the Lightning on Wednesday night vs Chicago. Chicago is a great team with multiple players with international experience, the Lightning need to win to keep playoff hope alive, come out and support the team. Almost every players has ties to MN and the entire coaching staff does too. This is not an MTA team or a bunch of players from one club or college. It cuts across all the MN High School, Clubs, and Colleges. The team could use the support.
The parents of the Lightning players 15, 20 and 22 must be very proud to see all 3 of them playing the back line together at the same time!! FSU is getting a good one.
12:54
Which one is your DD?
Good luck women.
Sports are too expensive and overrated. Wanna play? Go to the park and start pickup games. Uniforms,travel $100 shoes et all. What a joke. If kids spent all this time on academics they'd be much better off in the future.
2:05, what a jerk!! its really too bad thou that your kid isnt playing with them isnt it?
2:20..Prove it?
Girls' soccer (yawn). I prefer professional bowling.
4:54, Prove it!
Bummer. Thunder couldn't beat a very average KC Wizards team that sat nearly all of their starters tonight. Oh well, time to resume the USL schedule and try to improve on that whopping 1-7-4 record.
Why don't they ever get relegated to a lower division? It's been years since they were good.
Last year the Thunder made the playoffs
Hmmmm...let's visit the Thunder archives:
2009: 1-7-4 (11th of 11)
2008: 10-11-9 (7th of 11)
2007: 5-12-11 (11th of 12)
2006: 7-15-6 (12th of 12)
2005: 7-10-11 (10th of 12)
Not too good for minor-league soccer.
my point was last year they made the playoffs.
it would be nice if people went out to support the team.
if the Thunder folds and goes away we lose a lot in the community.
We would not have been able to see an entertaining game last nigh.
Its a chance for the kids to see the highest level of soccer in MN live. Next highest then will be the MIAC men or Premier mens league.
No Beckham game.
No US womens natl team game.
No high level games for referees in the area and that will limit the level they will get too
I know they are struggling but with limited attendance, the team will struggle to exist and if they struggle to exist and fold that is not good for MN soccer
MTA is seperate and will still exist. Maybe a name change again but will still exist so if your motivation is anger toward the youth teams that is to bad because it will not impact their existence.
Want to improve soccer??
1. Time for MTA to clean house and get rid of the five or six directors and the two strategic advisors and replace them with individuals who will make the players the #1 priority.
2. Hire professional coaches for the Thunder and Lightning.
3. Sign a couple of higher profile players.
Trying to draw fans on the cheap doesn't work.
Finishing 7th place and getting into the playoffs is a joke much like hockey where almost everybody makes the playoffs.
Off topic but looks like MSHL is trying to force 4 Classic Lake teams into the Lake Conf. Lake Conf said existing teams will bail and form their own conf. Classic kicked out Armstrong and now the Classic looks like they screwed themselves.
I can't figure out why the Lake Conference alignment continues to be an issue. Is everything messed up because no one wants to play Eden Prairie, or is the MSHSL the problem? Anyone have any idea?
MSHSL is trying to force the Lake to absorb 4 teams from West Metro. Long trips for everyone. Millea has described the Dakota conference a couple of times in columns. That will likely happen. EV,AV,EAG,RSMT,LS,LN and BVL will form that conference.
The Classic pissed everybody off a few years ago and now it's payback time.
Who gets relegated in this scenario?
http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/standsum/standings.cfm?l=G15PR
They will all stay or all get relegated no rule in plays sure the C1 teams pushing for them to be relegated and the premier teams pushing for a seven team league.
Why not use the tie breaking system they use to determine league winners if three teams are tied and relgate the lowest placed team.
news Flash
EP's U16 premier girls coach resigned.
He is to be named the coaching director, of the newly formed Elite girls club Athena
What a joke this club will be.
b. U15-19: Vacancy(ies) in the U15 through U19 leagues will be filled by the C1 league winner(s)
that advance the farthest in the MYSA Summer State Tournament.
2. Relegation
a. The last place team in each Premier league is automatically relegated. If two teams tie in points
for last place they will both be relegated.
b. Premier teams that score 25 percent or lower of the total number of points possible for their league
are automatically relegated.
1. To determine team standing within a league, the following procedures shall be used in sequence:
a. Highest number of points. Win = 3 points, Tie = 1 point, Loss = 0 points.
b. Winner of head-to-head competition (this criterion is not used if more than 2 teams are tied).
c. Winner of most games.
d. Goal differential (goals scored minus goals against) in all games, with a maximum of a 3-goal differential per game.
e. Most goals scored in all games, with a maximum of 3 goals per game.
f. Kicks from the penalty mark.
Looks like their is no rule in plays when three teams are tied for last.
Chi-Town 1 Lightning 0
Pretty obvious the current coach can't get it done. Want to see results not excuses.
1:42 - why not just say I'm a DS-hater..... (and most likely the same one who continually pollutes this thread).
I believe the MYSA office confirmed all three teams would be relegated.
Wow, that's harsh. Let's see there are 3 divisions at U15C1. That means the division winners would all be promoted to Premier. Look for a ton of player movement at that age level. By the standings there was parity among the current teams at the U15 Premier level this year.
Happy 4th to the current C1 teams if true.
Good luck to the first group of girls heading down to DeKalb on Monday. Hopefully MYSA can do a better job this year of keeping the pool lists up-to-date.
A little birdie tells me there will be a lot of changes on the girls side at U15 next year, the current U14 age group.
Both of this year's state cup finalists teams are breaking up. Players and parents from both Brusnville and MTA are done with their coaches. I understand some of the Bursnville girls are looking at SCV and some MTA players are looking at TCF.
Looks like the MTA empire is crumbling and the Burnsville rise is now sinking.
Hillarious!
If I was a coaching director or on a club board, I would invite all these girls to tryouts and finally combine talent at this age?
sounds like classic over-involved, over-bearing parents to me.
regarding mta, i kind of doubt that if true the breaking up of a middle of the road u14 state cup runner up team classifies as "crumbling". sounds more like you searching for any "crumb" to take an envious swipe.
Hopefully some club steps up to give these girls at u14 a better option. Many talented girls at this age, spread across MTA, Tonka, Burnsville not getting the right coaching or pooling of talent.
heard MTA is working on a plan to repair the problems at both current u14 and u16 girls teams for next year
A plan? Really? You mean like, hold tryouts and see if players come to shore up holes in the rosters? How novel!
I'm not sure about the Burnsville rumor, but I do know about the MTA rumor, my niece plays for that team.
The whole team is not leaving. My brother told me there are a few parents who may have an unrealistic veiw of their daughters' abilities and are blaming the coach and trying to get him to not come back next year. The rest of the team came to the defense of the coach.
I understand three or four may leave, but it won't have a dramatic impact on the team.
105, Most of the parents on that team have an unrealistic view of their daughters abilities. They are a group of above average players with no superstars. However, with that being said the gap between their top players and there bottom players is significantly less than all other teams at that age group.
I have heard the Burnsville rumors and what I heard was that there was a lot of complaining about even playing time from kids that came over from another club and that they had to play kids more evenly during regions.
Rumor has it that JE may be taking over fully for KK at the Woodbury U15 age group.
341, I assume you are talking about this years U14. How are they currently doing under KK and why the switch?
I think the change is coming because KK took the assistant job at the U of M.
With JE taking over at Woodbury, maybe that is an option for consolidating talent at this age group?
829 - Woodbury is in second to last place in premier. If you consolidated talent at Woodbury and it was done without politics you would end up with a Woodbury team with just a couple Woodbury kids.
I doubt it, she was handed a talented team at that age in her current U17's and did not make them any better.
and 9:01 you are basing your comments off of......
Results Lightning 6-0 last night
1012 are you disagreeing with 901? If so what are you basing your comment off of? The team has underperformed, that is a fact. If you are going to argue the talent is not there OK, but I think most people would disagree with you.
11:09 - please define what your ("and most peoples") expectations were.
1159 please explain why you think any expectations are too high.
1:09 - based on your last comment every team (unless they win everything) underperforms. with no basis for your POV sounds more like you just want to rip. Enjoy the holiday.
LOL 127 your skin seems rather thin. Not going to go into detail regarding this. Sorry if that disappoints you. Simply think the team could have done better. We will have to agree to disagree. Have a wonderful holiday.
So who would take over the U17's for JE IF she is truly leaving?
it always makes me laugh when folks toss out their opinions but then don't provide the foundation for their thinking...
Lightning have four games left against lousy teams that they have already clobbered. They should easily win these games and finish the season 8-3-1.
Re the U15G Premier status -
the three teams tied for last have 40% of available points, which is not a typical last place total. I'm not aware of any single team being relegated with 40% of points, much less half of a very competitive league.
Since there is no rule in place to cover this unusual result, and the three teams are clearly competitive at Premier, promoting the top C1 team from Summer State and having a seven team league would seem to make a lot of sense.
If they follow the rules, all three of those teams will be eliminated.
The last place team is automatically eliminated. If teams tie for last, they are all eliminated.
Unless they change the rules, it looks like three teams will be promoted.
2. Relegation
a. The last place team in each Premier league is automatically relegated. If two teams tie in points for last place they will both be relegated.
Different subject:
ODP:
I am amazed at the lack of interest in ODP for the younger ages. Age 13 girls this year had very weak turnout. I understand No players from MTA blue or white tried out and none from DKT Rev u-13's top team even tried out. those three teams have the bulk of the top players in this state. Anyone from EP,Edina,Tonka,cottage grove,North metro have participation in the tryouts? Where did the ODP players come from this year?
7:40 am is incorrect - read the rules in his own post.
The rules specifically do NOT cover three teams finishing in a tie. No rule currently governs this situation.
Also, since they chose not use the league tiebreakers to separate two teams tied in points, it wouldn't make sense to use it for three.
This issue requires thoughtful consideration of the specific situation by the MYSA committee in charge, since the rules do not cover it.
7:54 - i think some folks are coming to the conclusion that ODP might not be necessary (and very expensive) until regional teams are actually selected in DeKalb. Also, not sure if this applies, but some U13's are '96's and some are '97's as ODP goes by birth year not USYS soccer age.
the 94 girls left this morning. Good luck to everyone in DeKalb.
754 - Several players from the MTA blue and white tried out at u13 but chose not to participated due to other soccer opportunities (tournaments, camps, etc). The MYSA playoffs also had a bearing as they were the same time as the camp. That being said a couple of player did get selected and are participating.
If the play-offs and ODP camp is at the same time, another brilliant scheduling job by MYSA.
People, we have to let MYSA know that we are not happy with their inability to look at a calendar and avoid scheduling play-offs during other important soccer events. If no one does, they WILL continue.
ODP camp affects a relatively small group of players at any one time.
I see no reason for MYSA to plan around "the few".
Our kids / teams / parents have to learn how to prioritize.
This is the same kind of thinking that leads to grumbling about prom and State Cup.
No one is entitled to it all.
I credit the MTA 13 girls who chose to keep their priorities straight by playing for their team vs selfishly going to the ODP camp when their team is the verge of making premier status. The White team has already locked a premier spot so their participation at regional camp seems more logical.
My experience with ODP (especially at the younger ages) is that it rewards the more selfish player by nature of the evaluation process. I would bet big that the MTA blue 13's would destroy the MN selections to regional camp. If MTA blue and white team along with the REV top team have no participants on the ODP group I would find it hard to believe it would be much of a game. It amazes me that any u-13 player would even consider leaving their team to go to this camp when their team is working through the district and regional playoffs with a chance to go premier.
SOCMOM, you and your way of thinking are why MN soccer has not yet caught up to other states. The "few" are what we are not producing because of these conflicts, the good teams have good players, ODP wants the good players to train and improve. If their team has other priorities and goals, many will not put themselves before their coach or teammates.
MYSA should not put them in this type of position-think things through, with the use of a calendar.
ODP communicates their dates in plenty of time to work around, MRL does too, but somehow, only prom is considered on the girls side?
Please we need leadership, not lazy and defensive.
ODP is a joke. Big time favoritism re IL players. I don't believe CS ever made an ODP pool yet was NCAA player of year. ODP is bogus.
Yup and all the ladies on the USA Women's National Team must be jokes too since most of them went through and were identified through ODP. Maybe CS wasn't peaking at the right time?
ODP is too costly and a waste of time.
Marta
Sounds like a lot of sour grapes from parents whose kids didn't make it into regional pool or beyond.The usual stuff.
ODP is expensive. For what they seem to get-True.
MN kids do not get the same looks as other states. True, but because our State Association does not do a very good job getting the best players, or training them. It's odd that club coaches do not appear to be included in the process of choosing the "best" players.
It's also odd, that the coaches chosen for ODP do not seem to have much success coaching. Do you really have to have an accent to be a good coach? Do we really think that kids born in MN, or for that matter the US, are not as good as kids who were born elsewhere and went to the same training as the MN kids?
Come on, there is a disproportionate amount of foreign kids who are chosen each year. (No, I'm not upset because my child got cut-he has made the team each year.) Many are erxtremely individually skilled, and would do well in juggling contests, but do not perform at top levels when the games start.
Seems like the identification is not completely working.
It also is not enough to train once per week for 4-5 weeks and expect these kids to play well together. Many states train, and PLAY together all throughout the year. Then perform well at Regional camp and get additional opportunities the MN kids don't.
Again, sounds like an organizational problem...
I dont see any problem?? If you look at the USWNT, all players went thru ODP, isnt the US Womens team(s) the best in the world?? Remember, ODP is about identification, not to get better. Its the clubs that train the players and the blame if players are NOT getting better should be held at the club level. Also, in the same breath, shouldnt the players be held to some accountability as well?
As for all this team stuff, that is way over rated, what is YOUR TEAM going to do for you when your choosing a college?? Will your team be there for you when you go visit schools?? If you are picked to go to ESP or Nike 50, your saying you wont go because of your team?? Good mighty!!
I agree, Socmom, your off keel here, you SHOULD be training that small % of players that can break a game open. That is what the next level is looking for. Not robots.
CS, she isnt the next coming. She had shots, she has been called into camps, and guess what, she wasnt what they were looking for. KUs program was to get 21 the ball, plain and simple. If you stopped 21 at KU, then you stopped the team. Question, how many final 4s did KU go to in her 4 yrs?? I think the best was a Sweet 16? Give it a rest.
there are also no burnsville u14 premier girls players at ODP (94-96). does anyone really believe $750 for the region camp is worth it? that could pay for 2-3 normal camps plus some private training.
looking through the soccer times 'tryout issue' its funny how many 'community clubs' are starting to sound like MTA (or the other 'soccer clubs'). despite all the crap that has gone on it looks like same old, same old at tryouts. MTA will be strong in the east, emerging in the west, weak in the south. they will still have most of the top teams in the state and will still have a slew of 'B' level players with unrealistic parents that think having little susie play on an MTA c2/c3 team will one day turn her into a star. it will be interesting to see if MA and AK can still recruit as well given this year's experience. its almost time for the DOCs and Club Coaches to put on their fanciest recruiting clothes and extra shot of old spice for the soccer moms! go get em boys!
1035, It's the line of bull they feed B Level kids parents about some kids being on the second team one year and making the top team the next year. They use the same speach every year at tryouts to get the parents to hold onto their dreams of having an elite soccer player to keep them in their club to keep the money coming in. The funny thing is most of them buy into it and guess what little susie doesn't get promoted. 99% of the new kids on the top teams come from outside the club. The only exceptions would be when the roster increases when they go from 8v8 to 11v11. If you don't make it then it most likely will never happen.
Not true about Burnsville girls not doing ODP. There is a girl on the 94 team from Burnsville, and others did attend tryouts. Not sure of all the girls on the 94 team, but the breakdown includes:
5 -6 (?) from MTA U15 White team
1 from MTA U15 Blue team
2 or 3 from St. Croix U15 team
3 from MTA U14 Blue team
1 from Woodbury U14 team
1 from Burnsville U14 team
1 from Eden Prairie (?) and a Goalie from NSSA (?)
Sorry for inaccuracies but this is a rough breakdown.
1994 ODP goalkeepers
one from nssa
one from eagan
Any results from camp? Is MYSA going to post anything? When are pool players selected?
So far, no A pool players from Minnesota. Two girls made the B pool.
3 Burnsville players tried out , one made the team but could not afford the camp. Seems ODP is becoming a less than average camp for the priviledged.
I've heard ODP will "Scholarship" the elite players if they can't afford it.
I know for a fact that is done with some of the boys ODP players.
No Burnsville girls - oh, the humanity!
Where is the justice?
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