Recent annoucements on College Signing Day show once again that MN is hot bed for girls soccer development. The boys still have a way to go to represent MN at the D1 level. Then again, many of the top boys players end up going to SSM and don't get any press.
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I want to know where all the 09' boys are going... I know that they have some talent, but were very under recruited..
there is not a lot of talent there that is the problem
A lot of the talented boys don't have the academic credentials to gain college entrance. The schools aren't willing to roll the dice on a marginal student when so many quality students across the USA with similar soccer ability are available.
We've been on both sides of the fence.
I'd say that the girls "premier" coaches do a better job of promoting their players to college coaches.
On the boys side, players / parents are largely on their own in this respect.
Add to that, there are simply fewer D1 programs / spots for guys.
The competion is more fierce.
If they're good enough, they'll get noticed...unless of course they never go to any college showcase tounaments, play in state cup or showcase anywhere.
My son is in this group. He played in several College Showcases as well as the MRL & State Cup. We had been told by U of Michigan coach, that they thought he would be an impact player his junior/senior year.
We and other on our team contact several D1 schools & coaches. No one received any responses from coaches or had any coaches come out and see them play.
I would disagree with you if they're good enough they'll get noticed.... Anon 6:45 I think has hit the nail on the head. I think not having a D1 program in MN hurts he MN boys alot also.
I heard the WB "Mr. Soccer" Class AA wasn't signed as a soccer player but as a track star.
Just an FYI - my son did sign and he is very happy with his choice.
6:01, if they are good enough they will get noticed, the problem is that they are not good enough, WB is not a great soccer player, he is very good, but not great, too small and selfish to be a D1 soccer player
D1 schoo;s are getting away from boot ball. About time.
Anon 9:24 I don't disagree with your WB comment. But what does that say about Mr. Soccer and the high school coaches that voted for him?
I think the 09 class has some talent. SSM supposedly has 9 D1 players playing on their U18 team. MTA has I think 2 or 3. In a scrimage last week these two teams tied 2-2. Granted it was a scrimmage but in general you could say they are equally matched teams. So....what accounts for the difference? I don't think it is the coaches.
Girls have about 300 D1 teams and the boys have about 200. In the five state area the Girls have 12 D1 schools, the boys have 5. For most of us cost is a big factor in college. I know we personnel could not afford to send our son to U of Michigan. If we had been able to pay $30K a year for our son to play soccer and get an education we would have sent him to SSM. I think that accounts for alot of the difference between 9 D1 players and 3-4 D1 players.
For some reason 2:25, I dont think most of the players at SSM paid
30k. This has been hashed over and over, most players at SSM get some sort of aid/scholarship.
2:25- You are dead wrong on your assumption that money has something to do with the SSM players heading to college.
How about intangible things like:
1) proven commitment to the sport by training everyday in a college-like atmosphere?
2) ability to live away from mom and dad, juggle life skills, school commitments, and training?
3) having been part of a team who finished #2 at Nationals?
4) being part of a program which has a lot of buzz around it right now?
SSMSouthCampus
Well Said SSMSC!! Nice piece in the Sunday paper as well.
10s Dad
10s Dad-- Do you guys play WDM this coming weekend as well? We play (what we believe to be the U16 WDM Ice) on Sunday at 2 something.
Yes we do, WDMSC U18 Xtreme, 12 or 12:30 I think, and then after that the 16s play. From what Iv been hearing thou, there will be guest players for both teams. I think there might be a few 18s playing with the 16s as well?? Ankeny came up a few weeks ago and had some of the Xtreme play with them then as well. Weather permitting of course.
Who are WE??
Sorry.....it is I (SSMSC). I am lookking to mooch a ride from the snow covered tundra (Iowa) to the great brown north (MN).
SSMSouthCampus
SSM South Campus & others
I’m dead wrong??? It is a fact that there are almost 100 more Girls D1 schools than Boys D1 schools. As far as SSM not costing 30K and that most students get aid that maybe true, but unless SSM is willing to release how much they actually charge we will have to go with their posted price.
If you cannot overcome the tangible things, you cannot really get work on those intangible things. Please do not assume that I was in anyway saying that the SSM kids are not good soccer players. They are. However, many MN players lack to same resources as the SSM players do. Money wasn't the only consideration when we choose a college but it was a major part of our discussion. South Campus most of your previous post give the impression that a lack of money is not something that concerns you or your family. FYI the lack of money does affect the majority of us in today economic landscape.
So let us list your intangibles again….
1) Proven commitment to the sport by training everyday in a college-like atmosphere? Yeah, but I not sure if I would list it as #1. I am also not sure how much college coaches consider this.
2) Ability to live away from mom and dad, juggle life skills, school commitments, and training? Ok, maybe. Was not anything any of the college coaches who spoke to us asked about but ok?
3) Having been part of a team who finished #2 at Nationals? Well, let us see that would be five players maybe. Of which I think probably only two saw any field play. I hope college coaches are smarter than that.
4) Being part of a program which has a lot of buzz around it right now? Yeah, buzz is the word I use to. I wonder what that buzz will be like if SSM gets beat that at the State Cup.
You did also forget to mention one other intangible to your list…Parents who are Alumni of the college.
Money is not the only reason that MN boys struggle to get onto D1 Men’s Soccer Teams. However, I think we could all agree that the MN boys have a few more hurdles to overcome than those just on the soccer field do. The MN Boys also have a few more hurdles to overcome than the SSM players do. The question is how many hurdles and how difficult are they for the boys to overcome. Just like money is not the only reason, lack of ability is not reason either.
Let's get it straight.
MONEY HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH GETTING A KID EXPOSED TO COLLEGE COACHES.
High powered "premier teams" travel to showcase events and it's not cheap.
Unless sending your teenager alone, you can spend 1000$ a weekend.
Add it up: 2 plane tickets, hotel room 2-3 days, food, car rental and extras.
Multiply that by 3 College Search Tournaments a year.
Now add MWL weekends.
Figure in the annual cost of gas driving to practice 3 times per week.
Add the cost of uniforms, shoes, warm ups, bags, shin guards, balls etc etc etc
How about ODP travel expense / trips?
Throw in a college camp every summer.
Some kids have personal trainers.
What about therapy for those overuse injuries?
Maybe they aren’t fast enough and need an “Acceleration MN” type experience.
Then comes the cost of “unofficial” college visits.
(Because if you wait for a paid official visit you’ve waited too long).
None of the above is included in the false advertising of a "team fee".
You could easily spend 10K (and I’m being frugal) a year for one kid.
And if you also send your kid to a local private school …
You may be coming closer to the cost of a SSM “scholarship” student than you realize.
It is expensive "business" landing those athletic scholarships!!!
I really don't understand how people expect to overcome the "tangibles"....if they never do the research to find ways around them? You know what my child (who is an SSM player) has in resources that other MN players don't? Open minded parents who are willing to find ways to get thier child opportunities-- even if it means your child moves out of your house. She also has a mentality and drive to want to be the best player she can-- and is willing to give up many things that other kids aren't (and live away from home). I am not sure how from my "last post" you could infer that money is not something that concerns me....again you are dead wrong. If your child is interested and has the commitment level/talent to be seriously considered for SSM....contact them. Otherwise, don't complain that "the man is keeping you down". Approach the "man" and see if the system can help you.
As far as my list of intangibles--
they were not in any particular order. If you are unsure if any of these are important to a college coach, ask him or her. I know that MULTIPLE MAJOR D1 schools have stated to numerous SSM parents that these things make SSM students more desirable.
The "Parents who are Alumni of the college" argument? 10s Dad, did you attend UCLA? Pretty sure that this was not a factor in ANY of the SSM girls side....don't know about the boys. Boys parents? Are you out there.....can you shed light?
The final conclusion I come to after reading your post is........
given all the hurdles in front of MN kids, and given that (in your opinion) simply attending SSM takes some of those hurdles away...... why is your child not at SSM? See, I agree with you in many ways. It IS easier for the kids at SSM to get a great SCHOLARSHIP (anyone can walk on anywhere-- scholarships are the key) for many reasons. Most of which are intangible. Why does it not make perfect sense that everyone who wants to give thier kids the best opportunity to succeed not put their kids in a position to succeed? If you live within reasonable driving distance to SSM (1 hour) and you are not considering SSM.....why not? What intangible benefit are you getting from your club/situation that outweighs your desire to put your kid in the best situation possible? What is the "tipping point"?
SSMSouthCampus
all of this conversation is great for the parent (and I stress parent-not child) chasing the D1. the other 98% of us are just along for the reading ride...... please continue to keep us entertained.
socmom-
Most of the items you list in your email are included and not extra expenses for the SSM kids.
Included are:
"travel to showcase events"
"MRL weekends"
"cost of gas driving to practice"
"the cost of uniforms, warm ups"
"personal trainers."
"therapy for injuries"
Not included are:
"ODP travel expense/trips"
"college camp every summer"
"an “Acceleration MN” type thing"
“unofficial” college visits"
You're point-
"You could easily spend 10K (and I’m being frugal) a year for one kid. And if you also send your kid to a local private school …
You may be coming closer to the cost of a SSM “scholarship” student than you realize."
My point-
Why don't more people with the SSM opportunity in your back-yard realize what you really have? It goes back to my last post.....why is it not a "no-brainer" for those within an hour's drive? I know people who have done the research, and have made the conscious decision to not send their kids for whatever reason. I respect that not everyone thinks like I do. I am just asking for the cons that people percieve are bad enough to not send your kid to SSM?
There have been two separate people who have in a round-about way sung the praises of SSM without knowing it or intending to.
SSMSouthCampus
The biggest factor in not choosing to attend SSM is that most families prefer their high school aged sons and daughters to live under the same roof as mom and dad.
if it is that important for a parent to send their child at 14 or 15 years old to SSM or IMG or some other academy in the hopes of obtaining a scholarship go for it. the important thing is that they end up at a strong academic university since when they graduate they will be stepping into the real world.
The only thing missing at some of the boarding schools is a landing pad for some of the "helicopter" parents.
On the girls side, SSM had a couple of exceptional out of state seniors who have received some form of scholarships (never quite know the actual dollars) to some strong soccer programs. The balance of the players are going to schools no different than some of the local club girls.
South Campus
2008 Cost w/travel $4300. 2 college showcases, 3 nights a week training, MRL & State Cup. Public Education. Shared rooms/brought peanut butter. I know you keep saying that SSM doesn't cost 30K but does it cost as little as $4300?
South Campus obviously your passionate about providing for your child. Obviously, you can't understand where the lack of money may limit other people opportunities. Thus the great divide in the USA today. There are alot of us out their looking for jobs, alot of us worrying about keeping our jobs. To be able to afford soccer last year I worked a part time job. To be able to afford college I will continue to work both full time and part time. To imply that your child can attend SSM only because your open minded really shows your elitism. I don't think much I or anyone else can say will enlighten you, so the discussion is pointless.
Factors in getting a D1 schloroship. Skill, Academics, Money. You have to start with the skill, but if you don't have money your skills and academics may suffer as you now have to divid your time between soccer, school and a job. Whereas if you have money you only have to divid your time between soccer and school.
12:43- The short answer to your question is......"YES. IT CAN COST AS LITTLE AS $4,300. IT CAN COST LESS AS WELL. MOST OF THE FINANCIAL AID IS NEED BASED. IF YOUR CHILD WANTS TO ATTEND SSM, MONEY IS THE LAST THING THAT WILL STOP THEM."
Sorry for yelling.....but it seems that people just haven't gotten the point over the past two years. If you don't believe me, then do your own research. I have to worry about money just as much as everyone else. WE ARE NOT A RICH FAMILY. My daughter complains that she feels like she is a "Clampett" compared to some of her schoolmates. Don't infer that you understand my financial situation, and then complain that I don't understand the dilemma of the "common man". Didn't anyone notice that I was trying to "mooch" a ride to MN just a few posts ago? I wasn't kidding.....
SSMSouthCampus
Anonymous said...
The biggest factor in not choosing to attend SSM is that most families prefer their high school aged sons and daughters to live under the same roof as mom and dad.
16/2/09 12:15 PM
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There is something at Shattuck that is called a Day Student, which means, the child lives at home with both mom and dad. They drive to and from school just like any public student. Both the boys and girls soccer programs have many day students on both rosters. Like SSMSC has said, if you only check into the program, it will answer alot of your questions that you all are assuming might be negative towards your thinking of joining the program. i wished we lived closer!!
10s Dad
10's Dad - so if you live in the twin cities, are you talking about dropping off and picking up in Faribault every day? I could understand if you lived in the south area (Lakeville, Apple Valley, Farmington, etc...), but how realistic is that? We all know you drove your daughter hundreds of miles for her to play with the Eclipse on a regular basis, but for most of us that option just isn't feasible.
I suspect that every negative will be something that comes about because of lack of knowledge of the program. People listen to other people and make assumptions. Next thing you know, the person with no first hand knolwedge becomes the expert--
SSMSouthCampus
1:07- There is a bus which picks up in Lakeville? or somewhere every day. Where there is a will, there is a way. There ARE ways that a kid can live at home and commute.
If I can shed a bit of light here...Most everyone knows that we were with Eclipse for 2 yrs prior to coming to SSM. We are spending about the same if not a bit less at SSM than we were with Eclipse. It cost your avg parent at Eclipse $2200 just for the jersey kit. That does not include travel, air fare, food, gas to and fm training (kids live over 1 hr away in Ctown) Hotels etc..And remember, Eclipse stays for 1 week of hotels and food while at Regionals and Nationals, huge huge expense. Why do you think we left Eclipse?? A Natl Championship team, for SSM? Cost were better, training was more, getting better at the little things, it was the right move for us. And it was her decision in the end. And yes, most colleges we visited asked about SSM, and told her that she is way ahead of the avg freshman. If folks in MN travel over 1 hr for training 3x a week for club, why not look into SSM and be a day student. And yes, that is even cheaper with no room and board. gas will be another matter thou. Every student at SSM has a different package. If like SSMSC says, If you do your homework, you might find it to be very reasonalbe. We like Mr Clampett (that was a good one), are far far from rich. And I would consider living 2 1/2 hrs away from SSM a great gig. We are part of the lucky ones that we do get up there alot to see her play and spend time with her away from the soccer fields. Long story short, yea, $4300 is rite in the ball park.
10s Dad
Anonymous said...
10's Dad - so if you live in the twin cities, are you talking about dropping off and picking up in Faribault every day? I could understand if you lived in the south area (Lakeville, Apple Valley, Farmington, etc...), but how realistic is that? We all know you drove your daughter hundreds of miles for her to play with the Eclipse on a regular basis, but for most of us that option just isn't feasible.
16/2/09 1:07 PM
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Yes we would of done this!! its about 35 mins from the southern part of the cities to Faribo. Trust me on this one. There are families that we know in Ctown that drive over 1 hr that live in Southern Chicago area and drives 1 hr maybe a bit more up to Libertville and back again. If those Eclipse people are doing it, then why not you guys?? Just the other day, TopDrawer did a piece on a girl that is going to Mich State, she plays for the Hawks, and lives 2 hrs away from the club, she said in the piece how she would take a week off here and then cuz the travel was a killer. Its doable. But yea, I wish we lived closer to Faribo.
10s Dad
SSM Parents
We won't infer you have the money to spend on private school, if you don't infer that by our families not choosing to play at SSM our children are not dedicated and we are not open minded to explore every option available to them. Note how it can be said without yelling.
Very early in SSM our family did explore SSM. We were invited and did check it out. Reasons for not choosing SSM were
1)We did not feel WE parents were ready to send our 14 year old off for someone else to raise. (It is a 2 hour to 2.5 hour drive depending on traffic.) Makes day school not an option.
2) WE parents did not feel we could afford that kind of tutition SSM cost. SSM told us that it would be 31K but that they had finacial aid and we would need to apply. We have three children, how do you justify spending that kind of money on one and not the rest. 75% of our decision was based on #1 and 25% based on #2.
Several MN boys went that first year or two, in that orginal 91 age group I believe only one stayed. From information I've gather from the boys and parents of those boys we made a good decision for us.
What any of this has to do with D1 scholorships beats me.
Beats me either, but SSM is not for everyone. Im not saying any less of you or your child for not deciding to attend SSM. For each their own. Each family is different, in choosing to attend and not to attend, to play for MTA or Blackhawks. The only reason I chimmed in was there is stuff being said about SSM that people assume and post half truths. That is all. We know of players that have left SSM that did not like it as well or for what ever reason they left. Does it make them any less in my book, No it doesnt. But you sit here and read over and over again that it cost 35k to attend, and this and that. Im not going to lie, you gotta fill out a butt load of paper work, but then again, we have to fill out the same amount for college.
10s Dad
From SSM web site
What is tuition for 2008-09?
Tuition is $35,950 for boarding students; $37,950 for International students and $23,200 for day students
Are there any fees not included in tuition?
Each student must establish an Incidental Account with an initial balance of $500 ($3,000 for International students) to cover the start of school expenses. A monthly minimum of $200 must be maintained in order for the student to incur charges or parents must provide a credit card number.
Students who participate in our elite-level hockey, figure skating and soccer programs pay a yearly fee for travel, coaching, ice time, meals, etc. The hockey fee ranges from $3,000 for bantams to $4,00 for our prep teams. The figure skating fee is $4,000, and soccer is $3,500.
There is a fee of $1,000 per term for participation in our Academic Skills Program. There is a fee of $1,00 per term for English as a Second Language classes
The information comes from SSM web site. It doesn't sound like any assumptions or half true have been posted just the facts as know on the SSM web site. Perhaps not taking offense so quickly
What started this tangent, was several comments that the 09 class had very little talent. Some tried to point out that talent is only a part of the process in getting recruited it also takes academics and money.
Anyone familar with college soccer should also know that very few players received full rides. 1/2 of 30K is still 15K, were as 12K at the U of MN is still cheeper. The question is then, why are you going to school to play soccer or to get an education?
SSMSC - I would hope that the answer to your last line would be simple, but for many players (and just as many parents) I'm not so sure. Please remember that unlike football, basketball, baseball, and men's hockey there is no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for the talented female soccer player - GET THE BEST EDUCATION THAT YOU CAN!!
Fufilling all your dreams - Priceless!!!
3:23 - the player or the parent?!?
328, The Parent of Course!!!
Glad that was settled.
Whitney Brown - W. Illinois D1 (track)
Rodrigo Galvan – Wis-Madison D1
Keegan Gunderson – Pittsburgh D1
Dan Killen Valparaiso D1
Ryan McArthur – Indianapolis D1
Daniel Rasmussen – Upper Iowa D2
Hank Robson – Hasting College, NAIA
Jeff Webster Wis-Green Bay, D1
Abdi Hassen – Dakota Technical School
I do not think we have heard about all the signees. Does anyone know about anyone else? I noticed one player signed with a NAIA school. What is NAIA?
Congrats to them all and best wishes in their future academic and athletic pursuits!!
RG will only attend Madison if he can get in. He has been offered a provisional tryout through summer camp attendance.
DK will be a walk-on at Valparsio.
6:36 - was that post necessary? Did you make you feel better to drag them down and diminish their accomplishments? Regardless of whether it is factual or not, seriously, what was the purpose?
It diminishes the accomplishments of the other players (and those before them) who have been offered a roster spot and or scholarship at a D1 school, by including those who have not.
Not all of the others in the previous list will be scholarship players, but they have earned spots on rosters and been invited to pre-season training camp. These are real accomplishment.
Just the facts. Don't exaggerate the bad, don't exaggerate the good. If you want exaggeration watch CNN, CNBC, Fox news, or any local news channel, nothing but self promotion and exaggerations...one of our core social problems. (See Denny Hecker, Scott Peterson, etc.)
I agree. Playing D1 doesn't just happen to a player...they work hard to get there.
I think a large reason that some top soccer players that are close to SSM, in the twin cities, dont choose to go there is because they also play other sports at a high level for their high schools, why completely limit yourself if you are good enough, there are many other doors that can be opened when you play multiple sports at a high level
Really? Seriously? How in the world do you plan to excel in anything if you dabble in everything?
I would call a spade a spade and say that those kids referenced in 8:26s comments are those who are not committed enough to get to the highest levels of anything.
Hey 5:26
NAIA is National Association of Intercollegiate Athletics. It's a separate sanctioning organization from the NCAA
Several of the young women who recently signed letters of intent to play D1 level soccer also play other sports at their high schools including hockey, softball, track, basketball, nordic skiing and downhill skiing.
8:34 - you are clueless! This, "I have to play one sport in order to excel" is the biggest farce in high school sports today.
More players get burnt out, only work one set of skills for the one sport (i.e. playing basketball is actually great for soccer players) and lose interest quickly when they are forced into playing only one sport from the time they arrive in high school.
It is asanine to believe that you have to focus on only one sport at such a young age in order to be the best and hopefully get the college scholarship.
Let the kids play and see where their talents take them.
8:34 - you are clueless! This, "I have to play one sport in order to excel" is the biggest farce in high school sports today.
More players get burnt out, only work one set of skills for the one sport (i.e. playing basketball is actually great for soccer players) and lose interest quickly when they are forced into playing only one sport from the time they arrive in high school.
It is asanine to believe that you have to focus on only one sport at such a young age in order to be the best and hopefully get the college scholarship.
Let the kids play and see where their talents take them.
Also why is everyone so focused on D1 soccer, yes some of the teams are good, but some of the D2 and D3teams are playing better soccer, so don't assume that D1 is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Jake of all trades, Master of none!
6:02- Again, I ask what was thier scholarship level in the programs they "signed letters of intent" for? Anyone can walk on, it takes a special animal to get significant scholarship money at real schools. I contend that those who share time between soccer and other sports TYPICALLY aren't getting the scholarship money. I say, give concrete examples of percentages and where these multi-sport kids are going.
7:39- you are asinine. Learn to post your thoughts ONCE. Why must we always read you twice?
Playing basketball is NOT good for soccer players, actually the reverse is much more true. Learned muscle movements is what it is about, and there are no similarities between bb and soccer.
If a kid gets "burned out" in HS, what do you think is going to happen to them when they get to College? Um, they drop out of thier "walk-on" status.
I saw a NAIA mens soccer teams this fall play (Grandview). I thought they were pretty good and might be comparable to a D1 mens programs. Granted most of the D1 teams I've seen play are on Cable, which I don't think gives a true feel for the games speed. Does anyone have some insight to the difference between the two leagues? I know one of the Mike M (from the SLP/Wings a few years ago) is playing in this division somewhere in CA.
My experience is that NAIA is comparable to the top level D3 programs.
12:04
If the priority of playing soccer is "learned muscle movement" or achieving for the sake of mom and dads' bragging or the defering of college tuition costs then we should not be surprised that kids pull the plug as they are treated as a "special kind of animal."
My dog is special too and has marvelous muscle memory for specific tasks.
12:04
If the priority of playing soccer is "learned muscle movement" or achieving for the sake of mom and dads' bragging or the defering of college tuition costs then we should not be surprised that kids pull the plug as they are treated as a "special kind of animal."
My dog is special too and has marvelous muscle memory for specific tasks.
Sorry 12:04, I must have poor muscle memory to post this twice.
12:08 Really....I have seen both Augsburg, Mac, Bethel, Carleton all play and I thought Grandview was considerable better than those teams.
Describe the difference between Mens D3, D2 & D1 teams.
Professional players can play NAIA they cannot play NCAA so it makes sense that a NAIA program could be comparable to some D1 programs.
And...
NAIA schools CAN offer athletic scholarships.
There are some decent programs out there.
If your kid wants to play soccer the NAIA route is worth a look.
Here's the link...
http://naia.cstv.com/
Who are some of the players who will be Seniors and Juniors this upcoming fall that play High School ball who could get chances to play college ball? Just throw some names out interested to see who some people think.
I played NAIA, went to the national tournament. that same year we tied st thomas, lost to st johns an beat augs burg (in their bad year). NAIA is not even close to D1. it is comparible to D3. Grandview would not finish in the top 4 of the MIAC.
7:58--go to Gotsoccer.com and pull up the U-17's from Woodbury and PSA and for the U-16's pull up Eden Prairie and MTA Blue and you just found 80% of the D-1 and D-2 players for the 2010 and 2011 classes. GotSoccer even gives you their names!
Why woodbury have the U17 talent?
Throwing out the names of 16 and 17 year olds is never a good idea (especially on this blog). Even if the intentions are noble.
Many of the local 2009 women's recruits are multiple sport athletes.
Ment so say that last years Grandview team would probably finish in the top 4 of MIAC. But generally NAIA is comperable to NCAA Division 3. However the MIAC conference is much stronger than Grandviews conference.
Someone mentioned that NAIA soccer offers athletic scholarships. I don't think they do...but could be wrong. NAIA does have more liberal eligibility rules.
Just went to the NAIA web site.
Pablo Campos, Jared Karkas, Rio Nicholson all drafted into the MLS. Carolos Ochoan on the Mexico National team. All played on NAIA teams. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure D3 school and especially MIAC school don't have players of that calibur playing in it.
Went to NCAA web site, which isn't as user friendly so I could be wrong. But I didn't see any D3 athletes listed as going into the MLS or playing on any national teams.
The two NAIA school mention here previously look to be quaility programs. Each has a MN player attending and receiving athletic schloroships to attend. Where as on the girls side that may not be as impressive, due to the numbers of girls that sign letter of intent. On the boys side, according to what has been posted here, is few as 7 other players in MN getting athletic scholorships to play soccer. I guess I would consider that an accomplishment and an option for the boys to explore considering the limited options they have open to them.
Yes, NAIA schools do offer athletic scholarships.
Here's their link to confirm.
http://naia.cstv.com/member-services/students/
18/2/09 6:32- One NCAA Division 3 player was drafted in the 2009 mls draft and 3the previous year.
Everyone else- NAIA has extremely relaxed eligibility rules compared to the NCAA. Much of what is considered illegal under the NCAA is fair play with the NAIA. The NAIA offers athletic scholarships but I would equate it to D3's offering academic grants in aid. A NAIA is not going to compete for recruits with a NCAA Division 1 School (and be very successful anyway).
Most of the schools that compete at that level are similar to d3 schools. If you look at their schedules you will find that NAIA's play NCAA D3's on occassion throughout the season. Clarke College(a NAIA institution in Iowa) played 9 D3 teams (of 18 total games) and went 4-4-1 There overall record was 7-11. Good enough for third in their league.
It should also be noted that in the national ranking systems, NAIA schools factor in a greater emphasis/reward for victories against D3's while in the eyes of the NCAA the games did not even occur. I would be quite suprised to see a NCAA D1 playing against an NAIA institution.
I am biased but it think it speaks volumes about the NAIA that so many people who are invested in soccer have no idea what the NAIA is.
-Ian
Ian-
Grandview College (NAIA) plays against Drake University (NCAA Div 1) every year. Some years, Drake wins....some years Grandview wins. I would say that Drake owns the overall series, but it is not a given.
Look up Lindsey Wilson College. That is an NAIA soccer program that many D1 schools don't want to see on thier schedule on any given year.
NCAA D3 is the only options for MN boys to play locally. It probably has something to do with why people have no idea what NAIA is in MN. It may also explain why MIAC is a very strong D3 league.
I went to Bethel College, TN web site. They were the NAIA National Champions and looked at their roster. Here is their link, http://www.bethelathletics.com/roster/6/2.php. I would like to see that team play. While this maybe the exceptions, I think this is one of the things Ian is talking about when he says they have extremely relaxed rules. I do not think you would see this kind of roster in the NCAA.
In looking at teams & college programs, I found several instances were D3 teams beat D2 schools. I am sure if I looked hard enough I would even find the occasional D3 team beating a D1 school. NAIA seems to be less concerned with division itself. Thus, there are D3 quality teams, some D2 quality teams, and some teams that could compete with a D1 programs. (In looking at the Bethel College team, I would find it hard to imagine that they could not compete with just about most D1 schools). Smart families would look at all options to get their child a quality education for as low a cost as possible.
1st off NAIA teams more often than not field teams that are foreign national players have an average age 25 1/2...D3 depending on the school is viable as a way to get on with USL teams (Mn Thunder), D1, D2 colleges offer the best chance/experiance for college soccer. Cheers.
7:52- D1 and D2 offer the best chance/experience for college soccer for SOME kids? Again, you are trying to say that there is a definate right and wrong path for all players/kids. There isn't.
Is D1 or D2 the best college soccer experience for the C3 player who will most likely sit on the bench for four years?
Is it better for a Premier player to go to North Carolina as a walk on and sit on the bench for three years, to get into the game as a senior on parents night-- or to go to UMD and start all four years and be on every marketing piece the school has?
Only the player/kid can determine the answer to that. The right choice is not for us, on this board to decide.
Also, you generalized that D3 is the way to get on with USL teams. I think you are very wrong here as well. Please check previous years' rosters for the Des Moines Menace. I think that you'll find mostly high-end D1 players-- with a frequent splash of NAIA players (primarily from Grandview). Keep in mind that the Menace are at the lowest level of USL, and you'll see that D3 is probably not the best route to the USL1 (since you used the Thunder as the example) as you suggest.
Can you get there from D3? Yes. Is there a "best" route...probably but it isnt D3.
Typically, in the USL, D1 players go to PDL teams. They play there for a few years, get noticed and invited to either the USL or MLS combines. From there, things happen.
10:05 Did you state that a C-3 player can play at D1 or D2? Can even sit on the bench? Would you please spread around some of what you are smoking!
3:44- ALMOST ANYONE can walk on to a team without scholarship. If you are willing to foot the bill, the team will use you as a punching bag in training.
I was being a little sarcastic, but I would hope you understand my point/question.
SSM-SC
A walk on is simply a player not offered an initial athletic scholarship.
Most of them are "recruited".
The term is sort of misleading.
And yes, they often end up as "practice" players.
But many teams are only as strong as their weakest link.
Which is why a D1 coach isn't going to take "almost anyone".
Socmom-
I did just learn something new. Did you know that if a player is not offered or accepting any scholarship money they don't sign a Letter of Intent?
How many of the latest crop of the MN club players who are going on to D1 programs have signed LOIs? So, there appears to be a way to wade through the bs and see who is really being "shown the money".
No player is required to sign a letter of intent (whether they recieve a scholarship or not). From NCAA.org:
"The NLI is a voluntary program with regard to both institutions and student-athletes. No prospective student-athlete or parent is required to sign the National Letter of Intent, and no institution is required to join the program."
The document provides more protections for the school than the athlete.
8:46- While what you say is somewhat true, there really isn't a lot of negatives to signing the LOI....for either side. Once you sign the LOI, the school has committed to you for ONE year of your agreed upon scholarship. Without this LOI, that can be pulled. From thee school side, once you sign the LOI...you can't be recruited by other schools. It really is a win-win. Not sure why a kid would choose to NOT sign an LOI?
On the flip side, what I said was entirely true. If you are a walk-on, you CAN'T sign an official LOI.
"An institution is strictly prohibited from allowing you to sign a National Letter of Intent if you are a non-scholarship walk-on. In order for a National Letter of Intent it be considered valid, it must be accompanied by an athletics financial aid award letter, which lists the terms and conditions of the award, including the amount and duration of the financial aid. The athletics financial aid offer must be signed by both the student and his or her parent or legal guardian. Simply put, there must be an athletics scholarship for a National Letter of Intent to be valid."
I guess it would amount to personal preference but there is nothing that prohibits the school from committing in writing their offer of scholarship and/or financial aid without a letter of intent signed by the athlete (just like they do with a student receiving money based upon academics).
It is actually becoming somewhat popular for Division 1 football and basketball for players not to sign letters of intent to retain flexibility should the coach leave the program. IMO the signing ceremony is just that a ceremony to celebrate the accomplishment of the athlete not because the document is required. I even heard of one school that didn't have or use the Letter of Intent but would make up official looking certificates for athletes to sign as part of the ceremony.
some kids actually participate in mulitple signings during the same day (club & school), so obviously a lot of this is ceremony.
Congrats to '09 former Bangu Tsunami Select player who signed with University of Florida. Way to go Naty!!!
Folks,
I am a former HS goalkeeper coach who possesses a USSF "C" license (from a long time ago), and a recently obtained "Advanced National Goalkeeping Diploma" from NSCAA. I still work as a private goalkeeper coach. For the past five years I've been primarily employed as a freelance sports photographer with an emphasis on college soccer in the midwest
Here are some hard truths I've discover about Men's D1 soccer in this country:
The talent at most D1 programs in this country (60%, at least) is stupendously mediocre. You do find a glut of hulking goalkeepers and a slew of BIG, MEAN defenders, but creative, attacking, skilled soccer is nearly nonexistent.
The youth soccer explosion of the last ten years has resulted in thousands of mass produced,cookie cutter, suburban-soft players. For reasons I don't understand, some of these players get to the D1 level. Once there, they bring down the level of play.
The public relations departments at these schools spend many thousands of dollars promoting some "stud" who managed to score ten goals in twenty two games. Ten goals? Ten lousy goals?
The best D3 teams in this country could easily play .500 soccer,or better, against 60% of D1 squads.
Look closely, at the top men's and women's D1 teams in this country, and you'll see that the goal scorers, the difference makers, are foreign born/raised players now in the States only to play soccer. While you're at it, look closely at Shattuck's most recently heralded and celebrated "stars". Note their countries of origin.
Looking at the list of D1 schools attended by recent Shattuck/St. Mary's grads, I am thoroughly underwhelmed. Check these teams at the end of the upcoming season, and make note of their schedules and their won/loss records. Note also the records of their opponents. It will be uninspiring stuff. Also check the stats to see if any of these kids actually "play".
As for the luster, and riches of D1scholarships: The May/June 2008 issue of the NSCAA Soccer Journal features some very sobering facts about scholarships based on an extensive survey through 2004. Among their findings:
Only 1.8% of boys playing HS soccer received a scholarship. Girl HS players saw a scholarship average of 3.4% (P.S., in 2004 there were 330,044 boys, and 270,273 girls playing HS soccer) (P.S.S., dont forget the thousands of girls and boys who don't participate in HS soccer, but instead play year 'round for high level club teams. These are the players most coveted by D1 schools.)
The average award for boys was $8533.00, girls received $8404.00.
All scholarships are renewed, or retracted, anually. None are guaranteed.
If you really want to play D1 soccer, here's my advice. Study hard, save your money, and enroll at a small, podunk school. Walk on, and you'll probably make the squad. (You'll also spend four hours a day involved in the sport; they'll almost certainly insist you live on campus in the off season; your team will never have a .500 season; your team will never win an NCAA playoff game; and you'll never remember what you ever saw in the game of soccer.)
Cheers
12:37--you are bitter for whatever reason. BTW did you get that "C" license at Sears or Wards? There are some very talented MN girls players getting some very significant $'s to play soccer in college, but your attitude is that they're not having any fun. Get a life and BTW, most, if not all will use that college soccer experience to better their life skills. Now go crawl back into the hole from whence you came from.
if 1:52 thinks 12:37 is bitter, than how should we describe 1:52's tone?
you could have just said "i don't agree and here's why....".
I agree with 12:37
Football and Basketball scholarships have to be full. On average what are the soccer scholarships? Have heard several this year have been full tuition offers for freshman with more added to the pot in future years. Is this common?
Football and Basketball scholarships have to be full. On average what are the soccer scholarships? Have heard several this year have been full tuition offers for freshman with more added to the pot in future years. Is this common?
Whoa...sorry for the double post! Screen kind of froze!
Soccer scholarships are given as a percentage of FRE or full ride equivalency which consists of tuition, room, and board. A typical soccer scholarship will be around 70%. Can be more or less depending on how much the school wanted the player.
I don't think Cheers 12:37 is bitter.
His (I assume) post makes a lot of sense.
I'm just not sure I totally agree with his last sentence!
But,from what I've seen of D1 mens soccer the past several years...
I'd agree with a lot of what he says regarding the quality .
I do have a thought about how and why so many "mediocre" players make it into the D1 mens ranks.
It's called speed, size, or strength...
Aw, geez.
I'm not bitter. What I am is highly informed, and aware as to what's happenin'in soccer in this state and country.
Yes, I did get my "C" license at Sears. Specifically, the store in Lincoln, Nebraska. All the cool guys get it there. I hope you didn't get your "C" license from those nitwits at USSF?
Nowhere in my post did I say there are no MN HS girls receiving scholarships. Clearly there are "some" (your word). "Some" of these girls might get "significant" (again, your word) dollars to play college soccer. However, I stand firmly by my data that shows scholarships are very hard to come by, and usually offer very modest dollars. By the way, exactly how many girls is "some"?
Finally, as the last paragraph in my original post clearly shows,I am very cynical about young players chasing the dream of D1 college soccer.
I believe most players come to see college soccer as a job. A job that can require more sacrifice than reward. And, yes, I believe a lot of D1 players aren't having much fun with soccer.
As a result of what can be an obsessive, tunnel vision pursuit of a D1 ride, players can discover they're in the wrong program at the wrong school for the wrong reason. However, I never said, as you accuse me, that these same players aren't using college to develop life skills.
P.S. I remind you that my comments about MN soccer players were/are gender neutral. Please stop projecting your biases upon me. Also, please read posts carefully, and read them for content, before attacking the poster.
Cheers.
Cheers, did you play D1? If so where? Were you ever recruited to play at the next level after college if you did in fact play college? And if you were not recruited for the next level, why not?
Socmom,
Yes, I am a "his", and I strongly agree with you that the worship of size, speed and strength as player traits is largely to blame for the bubble of unremarkable talent currently bulging its way through MN soccer systems.
Now, size, strength, and speed are hardly negatives, but far too often they are esteemed at the expense of ball skills, game smarts, creativity, and vision. Of course, it takes a skilled, experienced eye to accurately see and develop talent (this is called "coaching"), but the average adult--especially at the early youth levels-- finds it far easier to choose "big", "fast", and "strong", in lieu of true skill or potential.
Usually, these criteria are excessively applied beginning at, say, the U-12level, and continue right through high school. Again and again we see the same core group of "athletes" promoted through successive ranks in the same city, or same club, using the same selection criteria year after year. Meanwhile, meaningful numbers of players with superior skills (or far greater long term potential) are rejected solely on bases of speed, bulk, or body type. In these systems, using these criteria, you will rarely discover the "late bloomer", or the "hidden gem". This is particularly frustrating since any parent, or anyone who works with kids fully understands that kids of the same age develop at vastly different rates. (I always cringe when a HS coach tells me he/she can name their starting lineup two years in advance)
With this highly suspect selection/identification process in place, it's hardly surprising to find that most HS and college teams consist of one, or, maybe, two "special" players, and nine or ten "generic" soccer players.
413, spot on!!
Anonymous,
No. I never played D1 soccer. I spent three very happy, rewarding years playing D3 soccer (goalkeeper), then 10 years of pretty high level amateur soccer in Saint Louis, Mo and MN.
My D1 experience consists of the following: While working on an advanced degree at a D1 school, I was graciously invited to observe the men's varsity soccer program for almost two full seasons. (This meant I attended/watched every practice, and had a small part in conducting goalkeeper drills.) Through the years I remained close with this school's head coach, and would visit his programs for a few days each year. That is the sum total of my personal D1 experience.
So you have this vast experience at the D1 level to share with the masses then. Got it. Not saying I dont beleive all of it, but the way you come across as slamming all these players. After all, you did get it correct, that its all about winning at the younger ages, but where does "younger" stop?
it's all about winning at every age. the winning programs attract the best players which perpetuates the winning. Can't win without talent. I would bet there are a lot of a great coaches at so-so programs who could coach the pants (or skirt) off of some of the more higher profile coaches. When it's all said and done, you don't win - you get fired.
I would strongly disagree with Anon 4:13. Too much emphasis is placed on kids with highly developed technical skills that can "cut" the ball. We see so many young players with these technical talents, get all the attention at ODP, but as they get older their lack of work rate, commitment to defense, lack of end product, lack of team mentality, leaves them not going to school at all. ST, KP, RG are great examples. Coaches get all gooey about these skills and these guys never turn into players that anyone would want on their team.
I do somewhat agree about pace. Most coaches are sick over pace. Also coaching licenses don't mean squat. Results and cohesive teams are what matters.
Good one 8:43. You forgot about WI D1 coaches. Did Marquette or Milwaukee fire their terrible coahces...who have 3 terrible seasons under their belts? NO!
Speaking of "highly developed technical skills", LD of the Inferno 2010's is off to Colorado College. A truly tremendously skilled player. Congratulations to her!
Had interesting talks with some college coaches (women's). Both coaching staffs recruiting a very speedy but small/slight player. Coach 1 says don't gain weight/bulk up as you will lose speed. Coach 2 says bulk up for strength. Opinions?
Depends upon program's style of play and exactly where specific player will fit in.
agree with 9:34, outside wing or wide forward in a 3 up top formation - probably not as important, target forward/center mid, etc... - might be a different story. It is possible to be strong but not bulky and if done the correct way, you can add mass without necessarily losing speed.
Coach 1, based only on 9:04's comment, would appear to not have a very sound base in exercise science. Coach 2, well, his/her comments are less suspect, but "bulking up" is somewhat crude in its use.
A certain amount of size will most certainly be necessary to compete at the college level, but it can most definitely be done without sacrificing speed. In fact, properly designed strength training can enhance speed and quickness by increasing the force production potential.
My recommendation is to get the player training with a good trainer that understands proper program design and principles to optimize athlete performance. I like the trainers at the EDGE Sports Training Center in Mtka, Discover Strength in Plymouth or FIT in Mpls. All use science based principles to maximize performance potential.
It comes down to where you play. If you are out wide size and strength are not as important if you have pace. Central Mids, Target forwards etc, need to be strong or they will consistently be knocked off the ball and be whining to the refs to bail them out.
1:08..isnt most players doing this as a extra now?? Also, you go to a big conference D1 school, and most if not all have top rate trainers that do train the players year round. Weight lifting x2 a week and speed work and fitness training x3 a week. Soccer is a full time job once you get into college. Hopefully the parents are asking these questions while on a visit, other than just looking at all the weights in the weight room, try to met the trainer and get a feel for it. This is what visits should be about.
Being recruited as outside wing/def though Coach 2 feels she could be used in some other positions. Already doing FIT, she loves to work out. Does need to put on some muscle mass as player is long and lanky. Thanks for suggestions!
Girls soccer...yawn....
9:20 - not in this state. compare the recent letter of intent signings between the girls and the boys. if the girls are a yawn, then the boys are a zzzzzzzzz.
while 9:20 is obviously an idiot, I dont think it is fair to draw a comparison between the overall quality of boys and girls soccer in MN based solely on the number of girls who will be playing in college on some form of scholarship. 1. there are a lot more institutions providing scholarships for women in MN (0 for men and how many for women?) and 2. nationally, there is a greater number of soccer scholarships per high school girl involved in soccer than for boys.
Having said that, MN girl's soccer seems to be more competitive regionally than the boy's are.
Your college team will send you a manual to follow for training this summer. My daughter's experience was that bulking up (in particular prior to the spring season with the trainers on staff) led to the players losing speed. Girls don't like to be buff. She spent her summers leaning out to get her agility back. She puts on muscle very easily.
great article on college recruiting.
http://topdrawersoccer.com/component/option,com_topdrawer/Itemid,251/nid,7960/
Anon 11:36
That is a great article.
I especially liked the following:
"Perhaps the most controversial aspect of the proposal, at least in coaching circles, is that college coaches would not be permitted to take part in ODP or club coaching older than U14.".
I bet this female coach is going to meet with A LOT of opposition.
But she makes some sense.
I've heard of recent "unoffical" visits by 8th / 9th graders....
There is no way those kids / parents would be visiting schools if prohibited from meeting with coaches.
any parent of an 8th grade soccer player who has taken their child on an "unofficial" visit should have their head examined.
title 9, only reason anybody bothers to post here.
ever try actually watching a game?
yeah, were nationally ranked at checkers...good for MN!
would rather watch a MYSA U17 boys premier league match than the U18 national girls final.
6:03 - respect your opinion. I, however, would rather watch the women's national team with the gold medal at the Olympics than the men's national team score one goal and get bounced out of World Cup pool play...........
depends on who the 17s were,some are not worth watching.
not in this years crop of 17 boys, they are all studs, 17 boys goes 10 deep in solid premier quality teams
R U Nuts...the best male athletes do not play soccer. There are NO male studs playing soccer at any level in the U.S.
10 deep,thats laughable.The age is probably the strongest boys group in the state but its not ten deep.
When it comes to competing its 5 or 6 deep,when it comes to playing decent stuff and competing its not very deep at all.Their is no balanced team at 17s,plays well and competes at a high level,the two best playing teams are probably the #3 to #5 range.
There is parity at 17 boys. No really good teams, and no more regionally competative players than other age groups.
Yes, the best male athletes do play soccer. However just like the girls, they have multiple different choices. Do ALL the best women and men athletes play soccer, no. Comparing Men & Women’s soccer is just plain sad. Competition each of them faces is as different as their gender.
Nonetheless, your “R U nuts” description of this years U17 boy’s age group is accurate. The players or the parents consistently announce to anyone unfortunate to meet them that they are the best players EVER produce in Minnesota. I have always found that those who can play do those who cannot brag on this stupid blog. Peaking at “14 years old” has created unrealistic expectations that unfortunately for us they fulfill with post on this blog.
Yes, the best male athletes do play soccer. However just like the girls, they have multiple different choices. Do ALL the best women and men athletes play soccer, no. Comparing Men & Women’s soccer is just plain sad. Competition each of them faces is as different as their gender.
Nonetheless, your “R U nuts” description of this years U17 boy’s age group is accurate. The players or the parents consistently announce to anyone unfortunate to meet them that they are the best players EVER produce in Minnesota. I have always found that those who can play do those who cannot brag on this stupid blog. Peaking at “14 years old” has created unrealistic expectations that unfortunately for us they fulfill with post on this blog.
Agree that something has to be done about the earlier and earlier recruiting and committing for women's soccer. All the elite programs such as UNC, ND, FSU, UCLA etc have finished up their scholarship verbal commits before the recruits junior year starts. The next tier of schools is mostly done by spring of the junior year. Too soon for kids to make these decisions.
Nothing will change without new NCAA restrictions being put in place or old ones enforced.
We have a vicious cyle now.
Practically speaking, the "unoffical" visit has almost replaced the "offical" visit of the past.
The "official visits" take place now after all the verbals are done. Many schools will bring in all their recruits for a meet and greet during their senior year and call it the official visit.
8:10..are you sure of your post? Or are you just guessing?? yet again spewing rumor. UCLA class of 09s all verballed AFTER Oct 31st of the Jr year. Almost same with the 10 class, however they do have a 11 verballed already. I cant comment on the other schools you mentioned as I have no facts, and I would bet you do not either?
Its true that OTHER non top 10 programs put more pressure on you than do the top 10 programs.
There are no absolutes but 810 is far closer to the truth than 1117. That comes first hand from coaches at the schools. It is a problem that needs to be addressed.
There will always be exceptions but 810 is very close to the truth. The higher level the program my DD was recruited by the earlier they filled their spots. For the two "best" programs she needed to commit by September of Junior year. These are not top 5 programs, but perennial Top 20. No undue pressure applied, just told that the schools were looking at 2 or 3 different players at her position and would take the first one who committed to them. It may be different for the very best players, as they would have their pick of almost any program and room would be made for them if needed. Mine is not in that category. I know of other schools that take verbals from sophomores. Granted kids are free to change their minds but that can be difficult and does carry a stigma. I am not sure what can be done about all of this though as it seems many parents feed into it.
being that few if any players from mn ever go too far away, how would anyone know? who are these coaches at these top program teams and why would they talk to some blogger parent in mn?
12:57..great question!! Come on anons, answer the question.
11:35, so what your saying is, you have talked to FSU, ND, UCLA, UNC?
1152 here. My apologies. It appeared that an actual discussion of an important issue (early recruiting/verbals) had broken out so I lent my experiences to it. For once on this blog I thought there was going to be a discussion rather than the usual "mine is better than yours" garbage. I am not sure what it is in my post that offends people but so be it. I will contribute no more to this topic. Believe what you want to believe.
11:52 - i don't think anyone was ripping you as IMO your comments came from some experience. I believe the apprehension from most folks out there is that the data from the commitment lists does not support many of the "done by summer" comments by some of the posts. too often people take the EXCEPTION and turn it into the NORM (if you don't believe me listen to political talk radio)......
The commitment lists are voluntary, many people do not report commits and probably are not even aware such a list exists.
Can we steer this back to the topic? To use the present as an example, I think we can all agree that the majority of 2010's have verballed by now and virtually all will be done by the time school is out this summer. I also think almost all agree that this is too early. What can be done about it?
if there were fewer scholarship opportunities I believe it would help slow the rush to offer/commit. You dont have such widespread early commiting on the mens side because schools are not worried someone else will come in with an offer.
In addition on the mens side it is far riskier to offer younger players. A lot more physical development left to occur in a 16 year old boy than there is in a girl.
12:24..Yea right!!
How many World Cup trophies do the men own??
8:08 how does the world cup pertain to this discussion?
Because someone is doing it correctly and the other isnt.
8:51 - i think we all know it's not that simple. in most countries, soccer is the predominant sport and attracts the best athletes. combine that with generations of club and coaching development and most countries in the world have a distinct advantage over the US. on the women's side, a few countries have been at the forefront of women's athletics (US, Germany, Japan/Korea/China, Scandinavia) and this has given them a huge headstart (Canada has also viewed women's athletics similar to the US, but their population puts them at a distinct depth advantage). if anything, the other countries are starting to catch up with the "originals" on the women's side (i.e. - Brazil, Australia, UK) and it won't be long until there is a much greater parity on the women's side similar to the international men's side. IMO, the USSF Academy program is definitely a step in the right way as it stresses development over tournament success (win at all cost).
USWNT won their 1st game this morning 2-0 downing Denmark in the Algrave Cup.
4/3/09 8:51am, Could you please outline the differences between that which is doing it correctly, and that which isn't?
examples would be great.
thanks
Skip the sprints and juggling and spend more time on development like field awareness and passing skills.
There are 9 kids going d1 from shattuck and only 2 going from the from the MTA U18 team.. Thats messed up.. their is too much talent on that team to only have a couple of them going to play division 1..
How do you figure there are only two going from MTA? RM, RG, JW, SD I know for sure are going D1. I beleive there are more but, I'm not familiar with all the players.
124, Boys or Girls??
Anonymous said...
There are 9 kids going d1 from shattuck and only 2 going from the from the MTA U18 team.. Thats messed up.. their is too much talent on that team to only have a couple of them going to play division 1..
-------------------------
hey messed up, get your facts straight and do your homework. Go to Bigsoccer.com, the spreadsheet shows 23 girl players from the 09 MTA team. I know that JS is no longer on that team, but hey, 22 is still good.
In addition to the fact that anon 2:57 noted there are also a couple of girls who played on the MTA U18 who entered D1 schools in 2008.
Get the facts straight before you put your foot in your mouth.
I think they are talking about the boys side.
RG is not going D1...is the jock rider back?
BOYS 18 mta team- Who is JW? RM is going to indianapolis university that is D2 I believe. What about BK?
We keep hearing about the NINE SSM players who will be playing D1. Please give some clues, because right now the only SSM player that has been reported to have signed is KG.
p.s. JW is one of the goalies, played from the Maple Grove area.
yeah, JW is heading to UWGB
Here's the link to Fairbault newspaper showing 8 boys from SSM on signing day.
http://faribault.bondwaresite.com/mod/ophoto/index.php?albumid=72
This committment link shows 8 SSM (boys)
http://sports.espn.go.com/highschool/rise/soccer/news/story?id=3776407
Actually it looks like the MTA team actually did a better job than SSM. Let's take a closer look at the 8 SSM players......
2 from Nebraska
2 from Iowa
1 from Canada
1 from Arkansas
1 from New York
1 from Minnesota
So, if MTA U18 actually has 2 players signing, then couldn't you make the argument that they did a beter job with MN talent than SSM?
However you want to slice it, congrats to all the playes.
Since the signing date and the Faribo newspaper piece, a few more SSM boys have signed their LOI.
I think they are up to 11 and last year they were at 13.
ryan MacCarther is going to Indianapolis their not division 1 and where is spencer going
what division 1 school in Minnesota is the shattuck kid going to. I didn't think there was any
I heard Spencer was going to Columbia.
All, why are you bothering to compare MTA and SSM? There is no comparison yet. MTA is just beginning to consolidate talent on the boys side. SSM should outshine MTA at this point as every player going to SSM must have their sites set on playing DI college ball. Why else pay the money and commit the time to a program like that?
I give it 3 or 4 years until MTA can match SSM in quantity of players going DI. As for quality, SSM should still have the edge as they are drawing from a national pool of players. MTA will hold their own and US Soccer DA will help MTA pool MN talent should it be granted. April 1 notification deadline so we'll know soon enough. US Soccer's John Hackworth is coming to town sometime this week to meet with the Thunder and SSM people. Looks promising for this state as he is one of the lead guys with US Soccer DA. Along the lines of some of the other threads on this site, wonder where MYSA will fall in terms of support for MTA and SSM should US Soccer DA come to town.
MTA should never catch SSM and if they do SSM should just cut their program because that would be sad, SSM recruits nationally, MTA one metro area
Why is it such a big deal to go play D1? If a kid, male or female, can get ANY type of aid to attend any division of college, then they did themselves right!! Its parents that are putting all the pressure on these kids to go play D1.
1123..Think of something new to say, MTA from one metro area. Hey, great for you!! Old news my friend. Get on with it.
Its great that Hackworth is coming up North to discuss with both SSM and MTA. And I think MYSA should be sweating bullets, they havent done anything for either clubs players, and once these 2 clubs leave MYSA, lets see how MN is on the National landscape with talent, because they wont be doing anything to promote the game other than promoting lower level soccer. Because they do NOTHING to promote upper level soccer.
Look on the IL State Assn website, they promote the Fire, the RedStars, WL and PDL team, ODP teams and players, plus the coaching and rec level kids. MYSA, you have a long way to go.
And from the rumor IV heard, within Region II, your counterparts are not happy with what and how you are doing things.
Thats my daily rant
10:34-please explain why the Woodbury 18's, Wings 18's (now MTA), Woodbury 17's, PSA 17's and EDP 16's will place well over 40 players onto D1 and D2 college rosters in the next three years, many/most on D1 rosters. Also explain why Ms. Soccer will probably be from a non MTA roster for the next couple years in addition to both Ms. soccers this past year. Bottom line is you don't have to play at MTA to be a great player.
maybe a wee bit sensitive 1:05.....having read 10:34's post i didn't see anything in there that said only mta produced great players. my guess is your dd plays on one of the teams you mentioned.....
Mr MTA..
If anyone from the mens national team program comes giving advice I'd run the other way...
3:31 - you are probably right, probably better to listen to the gophers men's coach....oops....nevermind. Any suggestions on who they should listen to?
1:05, You refer to WDB 17 and 18s, yet both those teams have roots back with the guy helping lead MTA now. That doesn't help your argument. PSAs 17s, good team. EP 16s, good team. However, EP will send maybe 1 to a top tier D1 program and she's simply a pure talent and would have made it regardless of where she developed. As for the other players on that team, difficult to get seen when they can't get into events like Vegas. Same goes for PSA. If MTA gets in the Elite girls league starting up, there will be one place for top level girls to go if they want to be seen by the top DI programs on at least a consistent basis.
3:52..rigth on, I did not try to say anything negative about any other MN club..But if MTA gets into the DAP and Girls Elite League, then I would assume that would be the club to tryout for to be indentified for starters. And if people do not understand this, then MN is further in the backwoods than what we had all thought.
But, at this time there is only one MTA that can be considered top flight national quality, the U15 blues.
define top flight national quality.
922 I would not even concede that. The U15's had a remarkable run as 13's to win region but have accomplished little else. There are other teams with a better overall track record, and not all in MTA. Not sure any of them reach the threshold of "top flight national quality teams"
922 is funny!
Top Flight National Quality meaning a team which has demonstrated in the last year as capable of competing with and winning against other highly ranked national teams. Latest example winning at Disney.
I think I'll go and throw up now.
I don't think winning one of the lower flights of a tournament (as the U15's did at Disney) would qualify. If you are considered top flight the tourneys will place you in the top flight.
3:47
Pia Sundage?
CS from the SSM's womens team...Plays with the Canadian National team....Will she be playing in college?
Thanks
CS from SSM finished HS last yr, is going to Vanderbilt, but decided not to attend her Freshman yr due to Canadian U20 Callup. She will be playing this Fall for Vandy as a Freshman.
Who gives a rip? It's girls soccer.
There are 14 seniors on the SSM U18 Boys team. Of those 14, 11 are going Division I this fall, 1 is going Division III this fall, 1 is injured and will most likely attend Shattuck again as a postgrad to rebuild his rep, and the last 1 will go back to Canada to work and play PDL/national team and try to get an offer for Division I soccer (has offers, but not to a top D-I school).
But then again, to you MTA people, having 79% of your seniors going Division I is still pretty bad.
Remember this, 100% had multiple Division I offers, but having an offer does not mean it is good enough for various reasons (e.g. money-not a large enough scholarship or injuries).
10:37 - LOL, you've got to be kidding us. comparing a program that recruits nationally, excuse me - internationally, with a local program. can you say "inferiority complex". if you were robert conrad you'd probably be daring me to knock a battery off of your shoulder (old commercial - kind of dating myself - sorry).
I think what 10:37 has to say is legitimate... If you think it is unfair for 10:37 to compare to a Minnesota only club, then (and read above for this) are you guys comparing MTA to Shattuck?
Oh and I'm pretty sure if you look at the MTA rosters, yes they currently live in Minnesota, but many came from different places (e.g. Dula Fadis)!
why**
For all practical purposes 100% of the MTA players live in the Twin Cities metro area.
Shattuck recruits nationally and internationally.
To compare the two clubs/programs is ridiculous given the differences.
Shattuck should have almost 100% of the players getting D1 scholarships as they've recruited players with that type of natural ability.
There is a much smaller number of that type of athlete living in the Twin Cities metro area. You're recruiting from a 3 million population base instead of a population base of well over 300 million. And on top of that offering scholarships worth more than $100K over 4 years.
This isn't rocket science. All of the Shattuck kids should get D1 offers given the dynamics.
There an old saying that seems to apply to soccer. "You have to have money to make money"
The State Cup game between MTA & SSM will be very interesting. U18 Boys MTA team is one of the more competitive boy’s teams to come out of the MN. (Not the only team, but playing in the premier MWL does qualify them has being a regional team) Last year SSM gutted their competition before even arrive at the pitch. Many of the previous years, State Cup players left their Clubs teams to play with SSM. Thus making the Club team considerable weaker. While this years SSM team is very skilled however unlike last year they have not made the local club teams weaker by recruiting talent away from them. The MN boys that are playing for SSM have long been out of the local clubs. Nonetheless, SSM program needs to establish a reputation of consistently being able to turn out quality teams. They cannot afford to be a program that only is able to field a quality team once every three years. SSM has a huge amount at stake.
US Youth Soccer & Coaches have repeated discussed how the influence of money or lack of money hinders the identification of talent. IF MTA wins that State Cup game, IMHO would indicate that the size of a parent’s pocketbooks is more a determining factor than player’s skills identify soccer talent more.
So this add's a different twist...So its not ok if SSM recruits out of staters, but now, its not ok if SSM gets local talent. Got it.
The MTA 18 boys team is a good team. Nothing will be taken for granted from either team.
Strangely enough, I did not think I was saying anything was necessarily ok or not ok. My point, which you obviously missed, was getting D1 scholarship takes a lot of money. Note in the first paragraph where I say; “You have to have money to make money”. Attracting D1 scholarship takes money, and I think explains lot of the discrepancy between the two team’s successes in getting D1 scholorships for their players.
The fact that I think this year’s state cup will be a bit more of challenge than last years state cup because MTA did not lose any key players. You could even make the point that they picked up a few players. Conversely, in 2007 U17 State Cups Champs was Valley United. In 2008 - U18 State Cup Champs was SSM. Several key players were on both of those teams. The loss of those key players hurt the Valley United team. I was not making a judgment one way or another just stating that this years State Cup could be more of a challenge for SSM.
I guess I will say I am cheering for MTA. As strange as it sounds they are the poor boys playing soccer in this case.
The argument from some of the MTA crowd against comparing MTA and SSM is valid. How can a local program be compared with a program that recruits nationally? HOWEVER, I better not hear those same MTA people turn around and tout their own club's grandeur (with teams full of kids from multiple Minnesota communities) as they beat local clubs who draw primarily from one single community.
It's really funny if you step back and look at it.
Mr MTA,
You will be extremely hard pressed to find any team in the finals or even semi-finals (or even in MYSA premier leagues for that matter) of State Cup that have all their players from 1 community.
Mr MTA said "primarily", not "all"
Am I the only one that thinks MTA would "recruit" out of state , in a heartbeat, if they could get away with and afford it?
lots of clubs would probably recruit out of state, but what would be the benefit to the player/family? the ssm's of the world offer schooling. boarding, soccer all under one roof. 12:36 - just how would you ever envision any private club doing this? seriously, think what you are saying through.
there is a reason no one's ever done it, but if that gives you an excuse to lob a "misguided" bomb at MTA, there's nothing stopping you.
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