This post has certainly created a lot of interest and I will leave it open for a while longer. The MTA will be an interesting option. Please try to stay on topic.
The Bangu Tsunami FC board is excited to announce that our BTFC clubs (BNG, BTE, BTN) will be joining forces with the Minnesota Thunder and Wings Soccer Club to launch the Minnesota Thunder Academy.
We know many of you have heard rumors over the past few months as we discussed options and possibilities with the Thunder.
The changes your teams will see are minimal. The biggest change will be the name change for the U13-U19 teams from Bangu Tsunami FC to Minnesota Thunder Elite Academy and for the U8-U12 teams from Bangu Tsunami (East, North or South) Academy to Minnesota Thunder Academy (East, North or South). The press release states there will be two teams formed at each age group/gender U13-U19. That is the plan for the future, but please rest assured that we have no plans to eliminate any teams from age levels where we currently have more than two. We envision increased opportunities for our players, coaches, and teams as a result of this merger.
The people involved with the success of Bangu Tsunami will still be leaders and decision makers for Minnesota Thunder Academy teams and players will now have access to the resources the Minnesota Thunder has to offer as well as the combined resources Wings SC and Bangu Tsunami bring to the table.
Please review the press release below and forward on to your teams as soon as you can. This information is now posted on our website and will be released by the Thunder to their extensive distribution network tomorrow.
We understand you will have many questions and we will provide more details in coming weeks.
Thank you,
Barry Neal - President Bob Hoaglin - Vice President Rob Zahl - Boys Coaching Director Mark Cook - Girls Coaching Director Danny Storlien - Elite Director Mark Abboud - Director of Player Development
Thunder Announce Revolutionary Youth Development System Minnesota Thunder joins forces with Bangu Tsunami FC and Wings SC, two of the state’s most successful clubs, to develop an international-style soccer academy
(June 12, 2008) The Minnesota Thunder Professional Soccer Team has taken a bold new step to help reshape the soccer landscape and make Minnesota a national innovator in soccer development. After seven months of extensive dialogue and collaborative research, the Thunder has combined two of the elite soccer clubs in Minnesota under the Thunder banner to add a new dimension to youth soccer in the state. With the inclusion of Bangu Tsunami FC and Wings SC, the Thunder Academy will begin with over 90 competitive teams forming one of the largest clubs in the Midwest. Together the two elite clubs have produced 39 State Cup Champions, 6 Regional Finalists, and 3 Regional Champions since 2002.
Coinciding with the inception of the Minnesota Thunder Academy (MTA), the Thunder will offer an Open Affiliate Program which is available to all soccer clubs. This program is designed to help Minnesota soccer youth organizations promote the sport in their community, by offering access to the Thunder’s growing network of resources, players, and coaches. “Since our inception in 1990 the Thunder has served as a soccer ambassador to the Minnesota community,” comments Thunder owner Dean Johnson, “This new program is an extension of our overall cooperative vision.”
The Minnesota Thunder Academy will be comprised of Regional Academies (North, South, East, West, and Urban) and the Minnesota Thunder Elite Academy.
Regional Academies are open to all interested players and will provide professional leadership for recreational and competitive players ages 4 to 19. “The great thing about this collaboration is that these Regional Academies will embrace the structure and programming of both Bangu Tsunami FC and Wings SC, in addition to the youth development philosophy of the Minnesota Thunder,” says team President Manny Lagos.
The Minnesota Thunder Elite Academy will be focused on the development of Minnesota’s top players. There will be two teams formed at each age group/gender from U13 to U19 with the goal of regional and national success. “Our philosophy is to bring together talented players under the guidance of top-level coaches in order to help the players reach their full potential,” states Thunder Technical Director Steve Bellis.
Including Thunder Regional Academies and the Thunder Elite Academy, over 1400 players will wear the Thunder badge beginning in the fall of 2008.
Modeling the structure on existing European and South American academies, the Minnesota Thunder Academy will provide a uniquely American path from youth to professional. “I’m committed to adding more Minnesota players to the Thunder roster,” states Thunder Head Coach Amos Magee, “This youth initiative will help us identify and develop future Thunder and Lightning first team prospects.”
The Minnesota Thunder Academy has hired the following Directors to oversee this progressive program:
Mark Cook MTA Girls Elite Team Director Chad Moore MTA Girls Elite Team Director Rob Zahl MTA Boys Elite Team Director Tod Herskovitz MTA Boys Elite Team Director Mark Abboud MTA Technical Director Steve Bellis MTA Technical Director
The Thunder Academy’s innovative youth to pro structure, along with its history of successful soccer in the Midwest, has already sparked dialogue and interest from potential European partners. These relationships are expected to include player and coach exchange as well as shared best practices.
The Thunder Academy will be a non-profit organization focused on providing soccer opportunities for all participants regardless of economic status. “In the United States, many high potential athletes are prohibited from taking advantage of professional-level training due to financial restraints. A goal of the Thunder Academy is to provide cost reduction and eventual program cost elimination for all players through Thunder partnerships and sponsorships,” adds Thunder Technical Director Mark Abboud.
The Thunder Academy is actively seeking out the most interested soccer players and coaches to participate in structured, year-round training within team contexts. Tryouts for U8-U11 players will be in July and for U12 and older players in August. Tryouts will be open to all interested players, regardless of previous club affiliation and led by Thunder Academy Directors, Thunder Academy professional staff members, and Thunder/Lightning players.
Full program details will be available by June 30, 2008, at the Thunder website, www.mnthunder.com
John Jerabek, Wings SC Board Member Wings SC is extremely excited about this opportunity. One of our main goals in structuring this arrangement was to provide opportunities for growth for all players within the organization, without requiring the children to leave their neighborhood teams at an early age or lose the community programming that both clubs have found successful. The combined programs will provide for the development of every player at every ability and level of interest by bringing together Minnesota's top youth and professional coaching staffs, providing additional training opportunities for all players and enhancing those programs that have a proven track record of success. This model provides the best of both worlds for the children in our community and provides a model organization for Minnesota youth soccer where the good of the players and families come first.
Rob Zahl, Bangu Tsunami FC Boys Coaching Director I have been with Bangu Tsunami FC as a player, coach and director for nearly 20 years and have seen us grow from a handful of teams to the most competitive club in the state. We began discussions with the Thunder late last year and the end result is an amazing collaboration for Minnesota soccer.
Along with the Wings SC and the Minnesota Thunder, we have created a unique development environment that will enable us to set the curve not only statewide but also nationally. I am thrilled to be involved with this group and very excited to see the quality opportunity we will provide for the soccer community.
From what I see this is a great move by the Wings and Bangu to hook up with the Thunder especially if as is mentioned in the release that the Thunder's sponsorships and new financial backing will lower costs now or in future for the elite players whose fees are very expensive due to indoor training time and travel to elite college search tournaments. This should be a positive for the elite level players in Minnesota.
Hallelujah! Finally we see some progressive soccer minds put their heads together and collaborate to form an organization that will give Minnesota players and teams a fighting chance against the other clubs in Region 2 and nationally. We've watched mergers happen in other states while we've bickered and argued over whose club is the best and which club is stealing players at the expense of the kids in this state. Congrats to Manny, Amos and the guys at Bangu and Wings for working out a plan to help our kids develop to their fullest potential. I know we won't see dramatic improvement overnight but in my opinion we will see steady progess over the next 3-4 years as our kids reap the benefits this merger offers.
I think Wings threw in the towel and gave up,big club wannabes in disarray.Bellis gets involved and gets a staff job? In reality its a Wings/Bangu merger,far too many of the same staff for it to be the real deal. This being Mn. and people being like cattle they will get the top players and dominate,I think thats what some coaches really want,domination.
Don't be too hard on me please. Even though I was a youth coach for 18 years, I still find this whole thing fairly hard to explain to the guy or gal that follows pro soccer but may not have kids in MYSA and don't understand all the politics. It was tough to try to explain.
One of my concerns with this merger lies in which kids will be given opportunities. If this goes the way of most MN soccer, players with connections to either Bangu or Wings will be given top priority. In assigning the important "directors" positions,5 of the 6 names listed are current Bangu or Wings coaches. It would have been nice to see some unfamiliar-unbiased names on that list. And, as I too am biased, I would have liked to see one woman employed at the highest level. More than one “Thunder" name or two would have been nice as well. Time will tell if this merger really produces highly developed soccer players or just reconstitutes the current crop of Bangu-Wings rosters under the Thunder name. (And, before anyone accuses me of being a parent of a player “cut” from Bangu or Wings, the truth is really the opposite).
socmom I believe SCV and WDB and other clubs that may interest you were also given opportunity to join this venture and may yet in the future. Lack of names from these and other clubs results from their current position.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. It will also be interesting to see where these teams play. Do they place in MYSA leagues from u9-u12? How about u13+? Where do they place these 2 teams per age group at u13+? Will the state allow the 2 teams to be placed in different leagues? Or are they (Thunder) going to take the bold move of primarily playing out of state events (which would truly promote MN soccer regionally).
To me the creation of a mega mall of MN soccer like this really opens the door for community soccer programs if they do their job right. The fact is, less and less families today and in the future are going to pay the price to travel across the metro to be training 3x per week all winter if their local clubs offer it (even if it isn't quite the same level). Especially when their daughter/son become a 'number' in a big system of teams and players. Clearly this merger will appeal to the ego centric parents because the brand is awesome and the people that liked to brag about being on Bangu will brag even more about being on the Thunder. There will certainly be places where this merger will create great results but like any business merger there will be layoffs and fallout if not done properly.
This may be a good solution for the truly elite kids at the very top but in reality there aren't that many that are significantly better than the next tier. This will probably force community club to create US Club teams and allow their best players to get regional experience. Frankly, many community teams are doing 1-2 out of state tournaments now anyway so some of that exclusivity is gone.
Any time a small successful business (Bangu) is eaten up by a big business (Thunder) things change dramatically one way or another. Time will tell. My hope is that it becomes an elite club that focuses on training elite players for regional competition but allowing those kids to remain tethered to their community clubs for normal play. I know this wont happen but it would be nice regardless. The fact is, if they have numerous teams from u9-u12 and only 2 at u13, they are going to have to tell most kids that their time is limited at Bangu. If I am a good (not great) u12 player/family, I am not sure I would invest a another year at Bangu if I knew there was no team available at u13+ for me. Perhaps the net result will be to weed out the 'low end products' of many of the u9-u12 teams Bangu has today as cash cows.
For those Bangu and Wings kids that get lost in the shuffle, your new and improved community clubs await!
haha, "this is a Thunder blunder." Because its a blunder to add a club that won JUST ABOUT EVERY age group in state cup to your youth development program. The people on here are awesome... its like reverse darwinism.
This is a great move for Wings, great move for the Thunder, Bangu probably is risking the most, they didn't "need" this by any stretch, but they do stand to gain in the few areas they would be seeking.
Smart move all around. Now everyone who is not a part of it can start bashing... three, two, one... go!
I think that is a really good point concerning the community clubs. In some ways, this may be the best thing that happened to them. They may thrive in this environment. I don't think the Thunder are against this by any means and of course will want their trainers to work with these teams. But really that isn't necessary. However, this does change the landscape of MYSA and I would think that it will be hard to sustain any sort of Premier league anymore.
Au contraire, I think that it will improve the premier league. All the kids that benefited from the training but did not get selected to the elite teams at 13+ will go back to the community club world. This will only serve to boost the level of play in that league. The two elite teams will be more focused regionally and nationally. And it should beef up the teams that opt to play MRL.
Let's set our sights super-high, everyone. How about, "My goal in life is to have my kid play for the Thunder (or Lightning)!" I mean, really, at best we're talking semi-pro soccer here ... i.e., Jackie Moon and the Flint Tropics, not Pele and the New York Cosmos.
I received an email the other day from a woman who played at the top level in my club, and who is now playing for the Lightning (and the U of M women's team). Congrats, youg lady, you MADE it to the Minnesota Lightning professional soccer team. Do you suppose they travel in private jets and stay at the Ritz? Not quite. She needs to sell tickets to games so she can pay for her uniforms and travel. Huh? And this is professional soccer? A few years ago some Thunder players appeared at an event my club hosted, and after the event they asked my wife for gas money to get back home. And this is professional soccer?
Yes, I hear the team has deep-pocketed new owners, but if they don't fill the seats at games, they won't stick around long. And if I read the release right, the new "Thuwingu" players won't have to pay to play in this program or to attend Thunder games, so there goes two revenue sources. I guess they still have those camps (coming soon to a playground near you).
I expect that for a few years this program will satisfy the need for a small group of soccer Napoleans to dominate Minnesota soccer, help defray the expenses for players who seek to play "professional" soccer for the Thunder and Lightning, and massage the egos of nutjob parents who are convinced their little Jimmy or Ashley is the next Freddy or Mia.
Do you think this state has more than one player at each age group who will play on the U.S. national team? Do we need a club with 100+ teams and 1,400 players to identify this person? Face it, 99% of the players in Minnesota will play their final competitive soccer game in high school. Actually, many of them won't even make their high school team.
Personally, I'm proud to be part of a club that serves a broad geographical area, provides year-round development to those who seek it, has an outstanding full-time coaching director and offers teams from C3 to Premier and MRL. My club has had its share of State Cup winners, and hasn't needed to recruit from other clubs because it has been able to develop its own strong players and teams. Interestingly, very few of my club's top players leave.
Finally, I really wish the MYSA wasn't so silent on this issue. Assuming they care about the development of high-caliber players in this state, they are suspiciously absent in the discussion.
Anon 10:49.Insightful post!!! BUT,isn't it a good thing the Lightning players don't get paid ? If they did, wouldn't the bulk of the roster be breaking some kind of NCAA rule ?
Can't it ever be about just getting better as a soccer player? About the player challenging themselves? If everyone felt the same way as 10:49, then why do we have NCAA football, basketball, etc.... How many of those kids every make it professionally? How many MN kids are big time professional athletes? Seriously, start naming them. Why can't kids just compete without there being some underlying financial motivation. Now on the other hand, without the higher level competition, most of the players (mainly girls) would not receive the college scholarships that they are currently enjoying or will in the future (especially to 11:09's point and the Lightning).
People - put this all in perspective. It is about getting better not about being a pro. I guess why we're at it we might as well get rid of the junior symphony, math clubs, advance placement classes, spelling bees, etc... It's the jouney not the destination that matters.
"Isn't ODP supposed to do what these guys are proposing? My son did two years of ODP and didn't this year because he felt his club training was better."
I'm glad MYSA is silent on this... they are already WAY too involved (I've been around and I've never been in a state where the state association and its archaic rule plays such a big role in leagues).
MYSA has NO BUSINESS even having an opinion on this issue. What are you hoping, they will block it somehow??? Neither you or they have ANY right to stop the Thunder, Bangu, and Wings from joining forces. There are no antitrust laws in youth soccer.
sorry charlie. My suspicion is your club your so proud of was offered a chance to be a part of this but your "full time coaching director" you champion so much was too worried about losing his place at the table to put the kids first.
socmom, The names announced will be coaching and technical directors, not board members. They won't be running the club. My understanding is that the Wings will have 2 representatives on the board, Bangu 2 reps and the Thunder 3 reps. None of the names mentioned as coaching directors etc will be sitting on the board. If this is true it's a neat setup.
I agree with 11:35's conclusion 100%. It needs to be about the journey, not the destination.
Playing soccer at a high level can open doors for you that you never expected, this has happened several times for my daughter.
However, too often, parents and players do not enter those newly opened doors for fear of becoming derailed from the ultimate prize, whatever that is.
In fact, this is where I take issue with your post, 11:35. The college scholarships you mention are meaningless destinations for too many athletes and parents. I know WAY too many who put getting a college scholarship as the be all and end all.
So, it's off topic (has that ever stopped anyone here?), but let's examine the college scholarship.
1st - It is something only a tiny fraction of 1% of all athletes achieve. In fact, I think that is why it is so valued. It indicates an exceptional achievement and is therefore great for the ego.
2nd- The vast majority of scholarships are not 100%. At best, you may be offered a 50%-75% scholarship. Much more common though, is a 25% or a walk on (0%) with an opportunity to move up to that 50-75% by your junior and senior years.
3rd - Scholarships rarely make college affordable. See the above. Most parents spend far more on soccer through the years than they would ever save on college costs. An exception would be for offers to out of state private schools - the Dukes and Stanfords of the world.
4th - many athletes never "enjoy" their scholarships as 11:35 put it, except as a status symbol. For many it is a huge time commitment that detracts from much of the rest of the college experience, socially and academically. I know of athletes that purposefully choose certain majors because they are known to be easy, and "jock orientated", rather than because they are interested in the major or hope to pursue a career in the field.
12:51 (this is 11:35). I agree with your assessment regarding parents, players, and scholarships. Hopefully the few that do attain them can reap the full benefits of the doors that they open.
Seems most, if not all of them, developed their professional talents while stuck in community clubs when they were kids. I bet they were less stressed and had more fun too.
Bangu finally gets the fields it desperately needs and a tie-in to a real in-house program.
Wings stops the decline.
Thunder gets more $$$.
Looks good on paper today, but the real tests will come in a month or two when tryouts take place and decisions are made on who to retain and who to cut in the older/higher level age groups.
anon 1:26, Now take a look at the roster of the US Men's and Women's National teams and let us know how many of them played in elite soccer programs. Or a list of the clubs the Bradenton Academy players came from for that matter.
To 12:02's point, you're totally right...there are no anti-trust laws in youth soccer. That doesn't make it right.
Imagine what would happen if other youth sports removed rules about where a kid can play, and allowed hockey players and basketball players to play anywhere instead of with their community/school team. I'm not a hockey parent, but imagine the ruckus that would break out if hockey players could move around like soccer players do. Hockey parents are ten times as nuts as soccer parents...just imagine the ruckus. Instead, they remain in their community -- except for the parents who physically move to accommodate their kid -- and the really good ones get seen and invited to play with national/ODP-type teams. Judging by the number of Minnesotans playing D1 and professional hockey, that model seems to work for them.
I would buy the “elite" hype if the three merging organizations were close to elite to start. But it seems to me, there’s a long way to travel when considering the status of at least two of the parties.
What are you talking about this is a risk for Bangu?
Sure, if they wanted to keep their status as a Minnesota State juggernaut then yes, it is a risk, but what they and the rest of high level players here in Minnesota are trying to do, is make a club that compete regionally and possibly nationally.
This was an amazing move by Wings as well. Now they too, can compete regionally and possibly nationally.
But if you are really looking at the big picture here, this is to combat the first and real powerhouse of Minnesota soccer.
anon 1:26, so maybe 40 players over the last 30 years? Also, keep in mind that many things have changed since 1980. Now imagine if all the names mentioned were now 12-13 years old today, the Winfields/Molitors, etc... would be playing in elite programs and regional American Legion-type teams, the McHales/Whalens/Bells would be playing on elite AAU basketball teams, and I doubt Brianna Scurry would be playing for Three Rivers. For the good or for the bad, right or wrong, things have changed dramatically over the last 10 years and player development options are accelerating at an even faster pace. It's a different world we all live in today. If a child/parent/family wants to play for the CC - great and best wishes. If a child/parent/family wants to puruse other options that may inlcude driving across town and writing a bunch more checks - great and best wishes. Who's to say what is right or wrong for another?
Shattuck has had great success on the boys side, but little tangible success on the girls side (last time I checked the State Cup recap). Personally, I do not think this is in anyway a reaction to Shattuck, but a natural progression in elite soccer development. Bangu has gone from a couple of good teams to winning 23 State Cup titles in the last three years. The next step is to improve their regional and national success. Not sure why anyone should really care because when they become a USSF Academy club they will not be eligible for these events anyway.
The soccer academy model works in Europe so it makes sense that it would work here. What we've been doing here in Minnesota hasn't worked so new ideas and new models make a lot of sense to me. Let's give it a chance and give it a little time. Seems to me that Bangu was well on their way already and additional help from the Thunder pros like Lagos and Magee certainly won't hurt. Another thing that will be a plus is the entry into the USSF Academy program. Great exposure for the top kids in the state. Neither will a little financial assistance from the Thunder ownership which should translate into more scholarships for elite level players. What's wrong with that?
I don't understand how the current Wings players will benefit from this. In fact, the only thing this allows is for Bangu/Thunder to say it's not just Bangu/Thunder.
At the end of the day, this is just a way for Wings to exit the scene gracefully, and for a couple of their coaches to get new jobs.
Practically no players from any current Wings team will be able to crack the rosters of the 2 MTA teams, and will be looking for spots at PSA or Wayzata.
I don't mean that as a put down to those players, just an honest assessment based on the success of Wings teams the last two years.
anon 2:12, Maybe you didn't realize it when you made your comments but the Academy model is working quite well for Bangu already. Just look at the results they've had in the last few years at State Cup since Mark Abboud left Woodbury and Bangu implemented the academy concept about 4 years ago. There have been several occasions the past few years where Bangu teams have met in the finals at State Cup. They have the U13 State Cup champions at U13 for both boys and girls. I reffed their U12 boys team last about 10 days ago and they are the best U12 team I've seen this year. Now all they're doing with this merger is expanding the academy concept. This will be like their current academy on steroids. This is a good thing for soccer in our state and will put us on a more competitive level with top programs around Region 2.
II have mixed feeling regarding the actions of the Thunder/Bangu/Wings.
I am interested to see the Thunder FINALLY be able to start developing some home grown players. I am hopeful that cc's can focus now on creating opportunities for all player and not be distracted by trying to creating super elite teams. Thus creating better community clubs focused on creating better opportunities for the majority of the players in their communities.
As many others here have expressed I am concerned and question some of the coaching selections? I only have personnel experience with two of the six. Of those two, one is a HORRIBLE trainer; I would not recommend he work with kids at all. (No my kid wasn't cut, the trainer is just plain bad, the trainer did not enjoy working with the players and the players knew it) the other coach will hopefully be in more of an administrative position as I think that where he excels, as a coach he’s had mediocre success. Two others I know of by reputation and both are superior coaches but both bring a ton of baggage. Therefore, does the baggage they bring have an over riding negative impact on the program?
This is an amazing opportunity for MN Soccer; we should be thankful as well as hopeful that there will be quality training and development available to MN players for under $40K a year.
Am I missing it? The philosophy here seems to be "bigger is better" "throw money at it" "consolidate power". I'm not a big believer in monopolies of any kind so I’m admittedly suspicious-unimpressed off the bat. Mergers are often very fruitful for those at the top but less so for those at the bottom. I guess that’s the real question, who’s going to end up at the bottom of this new pyramid?
You wrote, "For the good or for the bad, right or wrong, things have changed dramatically over the last 10 years and player development options are accelerating at an even faster pace. It's a different world we all live in today. If a child/parent/family wants to play for the CC - great and best wishes. If a child/parent/family wants to puruse other options that may inlcude driving across town and writing a bunch more checks - great and best wishes. Who's to say what is right or wrong for another?"
Well written, I must say. Good use of the third person to create the impression that things just "are." However, a large contingent of people read your words thusly: "For my own benefit, I have helped change things dramatically over the last 10 years and and have helped accelerate player development options at an even faster pace. It's a different world we all live in today. If a child isn't very good and wants to play for the CC - great, we don't want them. If a child is really good, they should play for me and my club, because no one can develop a kid as well as I can, so parents need to pay me lots of money and I'll look good. I'm right and you're wrong."
You'll continue to attract people seeking that kind of experience for their kid, and the revolving door will continue to spin out good players that the rest of us CCs will happy accept. Frankly, I expect more players will spin out of that door, which will benefit the rest of us even more. The xBNGs that have joined our CC are thrilled to be with us.
MYSA has about 80,000 registered players this year. The Thunder statement indicates they'll have about 1,400 players next year. That's less than 2% of the registered players. Where's the monopoly?
It's 1,400 kids whose parents will be subsidizing the higher levels of Thwingu. They cannot keep giving away free passes without collecting real revenue somewhere.
Let me get this straight...Bangu players pay a fortune to play on the top teams but need 1,400 players to subsidize them??? Seems to me that doesn't make sense. You can't have it both ways, Bubba.
3:16, you think that Mark (Cook or Abboud, I don't know who you are talking about) is the only one who feels the way he does. That's just like me calling you a single idiot when there are many more out there that I'd call the same.
His vision is not unique. Give some credit to us parents who make a choice to pursue what we pursue. Moreover, I do not believe Bangu would continue to retain the players they do if something was wrong with the model.
MTA Elite is for the few who show ability and interest. Your CC is for everyone as it should be.
1:56 - are you kidding? SSM only enters two teams into state cup... and only one won it anyway. The real Minnesota Soccer Powerhouse?????
wait for it... wait for it... WHAT???
Shattuck is good for the select few who get (can afford) it - discounting the many many many many... many girls players who it wasn't good for an left, oh and the coaches on the girls side who left (one last year, two out of four this year). This to will be good for a different selection of players. NOTHING is good for everyone. Thank god for that or there would be no competition at all.
anon 3:45, you just summed up the entire problem with youth sports. "Give some credit to us parents who make a choice to pursue what we pursue." I don't have any problem with the concept or the model, but it's about the kids participating and what they want to pursue. It has nothing to do with the parents other than their checkbooks, love and support aside. This will work for the kids that want to excel, and I hope that they keep the lower level teams as well so that those kids get the advantage of the coaching talent that exists between the 3 entities as well.
anon 3:45, That is exactly what the intent is according to my contact at the Wings club. And from what I hear that was also a concern that the Bangu side had too. They want a place for their players to play and train even if they don't have the ability to be on the elite teams. Seems like a good fit for all and that the powers that be took much into consideration when putting together this new club.
3:35/Bubba The Thunder is a separate for profit corporation. The Wings-Bangu/MTA merger will be a 501c3 corporation. The only "subsidizing" that will occur is when the players from the teams drag their parents to the Thunder games and buy tickets. Little Mia and Landon will already have their free passes. PS - You're not Bill Clinton are you?
I agree with anon 356, From what I understand Bangu had no place for the players once they reached age 13 if they didn't make the top two teams unless they made exceptions. Now under the Minnesota Thunder Academy two Elite teams will be formed at 13 and up and the players that don't make those teams and want to stay with the club and take advantage of the coaching talent will be able to play in the regional academies. Unless I'm missing something it looks like a win win for all the players in both clubs as well as any other players that want to get involved in the future.
3:16....I wrote the post that you are referencing and trust me I am not named Mark. Both MA & MC have posted on these sites before and always use a moniker. Feel free to direct any comments that you might have directly to them, but please do not imply that my thoughts, comments, or postings are theirs - as they are not.
IMO it's pretty simple, if you like the program and direction - then join. If you don't - then don't.
That doesn't include the cost of their soccer program, which I heard was an additional $7,000. I don't know $40K maybe be a closer guess that everyone thought.
Ah, 3:45, I have visions of which parent you are standing on the sideline, strutting around, having chosen (for your child) to pursue what you want (your child) to pursue. It must feel great.
As I said, my little CC is happy to take the players that the BNG model (which obviously works) throws off each year. We'll work hard and train hard, and maybe (just maybe) my little CC -- you know, the one "for everyone, as it should be" rather than "for the few who show ability and interest" -- might compete with Thuwingu, like we did as we took out your U16Bs and U14Bs in the State Cup semis last month.
I hope your kid is in the top 18 next year. If not, we'll be happy to work with him or her...if you're willing to pursue that.
In which league(s) will the U14+ teams be playing? I'm assuming they have no interest in playing MYSA. And, as "new" teams, will they face restrictions of any kind ?
4:22, And I'm sure the players from your little CC who moved to the Bangu teams heading to Rockford later this month are quite happy too! That's what is so great about youth soccer. There's a team for everyone depending on their ability, interest and desire.
422 fortunately there are parents from the PSA 19 girls that could say the same thing about your U19 girls super team but they don't. we need more parents like them and less like you.
We need a place for the very best players. As a parent of one of them, I had issue with four teams over three years, and finally found a home with Bangu. Bangu is simply better in every way. Look at State Cup. Bangu Bangu Bangu Bangu Bangu. WIth this better option, the coach won't have to hide behind trees any more begging star player Kareem to come back. Now he can go to him and say Hey, we have a better place to play than Black Hawks. That's how it should be. Let Bangu go, and your bad teams can win some games then.
Once Thunder Academy gets the USSF designation top players will flock there hoping to get on one of these elite boys teams. I don't know if the merger will have as large an effect on the girls teams but then again it seems they'll have the top teams in every age group next year anyway except for next years U17s. That will soon be the case with the boys teams too.
Cripes, people. This is youth soccer, and not very good youth soccer when compared to other places. As someone wrote far up the blog, there may be one player in this state who will go on to great things. It ain't my kid, and it probably ain't yours either. I'm interested in seeing how this works. It could soar or it could flop. Regardless, it certainly won't be boring. Stay tuned.
4:49, you're right, BNG already owns the girls, thanks to MA, so I don't see where the upside is for them there. They're a few steps away from owning the boys too, so maybe WNG will provide a player or two to put them over the top. I wonder what the MYSA and the CCs will do when State Cup is ALL Thundwangu.
I guess I'd just like to say that this merger wouldn't have happened without Manny Sanchez. It's a shame he won't be around to be involved but hats off to him for his efforts to keep merger talks going even after he knew he was out the door.
If you haven't been paying attention lately 501c3 have come under intense scrutiny when they charge for their services. Especially when the same or similar services are available for less.
They will not be a 501c3 for long. Even if they really, really, really intended to be for more than 1 year. Which I doubt.
As a 501c3 they will have to disclose financial (including compensation strucutre), which will probably be kept relatively low until they turn into a for profit organization.
The resulting for profit organization that will spin up shortly will be fighting lawsuits from people who are pursuing a piece of the asset they helped build. This will mean attorney fees that will cause the player fees to go up and the shine to get knocked down a few notches.
I've heard about clubs out east getting audited by the IRS for how they operate. Once club had to pay hundreds of thousands in back taxes when it was ruled that they were not in fact non-profit. I think they were paying their refs and trainers in cash too, and never 1099'd anyone. Hope this new group has its act together.
5:03, there are alot of people to thank for what is the most important day in Minnesota soccer since Ron Futcher, Geoff Bernett, Ade Coker, Ace Ntsoelengoe, Alan Willey, Alan Merrick and the Minnesota Kicks came to town in 1976.
5:03, Are you this bitter and negative with your kids and family? You must be a real joy to live with. People will make a decision if it's right for their kids. If it is they'll vote with their wallet and/or with their feet. The earlier post noted 1,400 players out of 80,000. Why are you so bent out of shape over this? It's less than 2% of MYSA players. What are you worried about? My guess is it's something personal and you just can't let it go.
Umm, I didn't get that at all from Anon 5:03. It is well know that the IRS is cracking down on 501c3.
On the other hand I have had dealings with several parents lately that are extremely tired of paying an extra $200 to $500 in team fees to carry schlorship players.
As the economy gets tighter, parents and players are going to be demanding an accounting for their club and team fees.
Maybe they can get some of the Thunder players to demonstrate to the current coaches some of the following.....one touch pass, give and go, what full field vision is and how to anticipate.You don't see any of this in our kids games.To see this you have to watch the Euro League Playoffs. Wonder what the Thunder is going to do to upgrade the quality of coaching ? WE have no elite coaches just a couple of posers.
So we don't see any of this in the MLS either? Gee...maybe we should import a few of the blokes from the other side of the pond. Don't a few of the clubs have a few of the guys with foreign accents? Wonder why their teams aren't doing 1 touch passes, give and goes etc?
With England not qualifying for Euro2008, maybe they will be looking to the Thunder and coaches with Yankee accents as a way to improve their fortunes! LOL
the MYSA should be the one organization that people scrutinize their financials - funny how they do not post them for members to see and no one seems to care.
I loved the KIcks and miss them dearly ...deep sigh!
This is a good first step in the proper direction for these 3 organizations
I'm pulling for Spain this time around. Villa and Torres what chemistry! what danger.
Swedes looked decent as well as the Croatians. Looked like Germany celebrated Octoberfest the night before
A poser is someone who refers to Euro 2008 as the Euro League Playoffs, or someone who refers to a wall pass as a give and go, and then who would not hesitate to judge the quality of professional players and coaches. This is precisely the problem with soccer in this state. The truly ignorant feel empowered to decide what is best for the development of the state's future professional players (especially when their own kids are involved), while the people who actually made the sacrifice and learned what it takes to be professional players and coaches are regarded as posers. Unbelievable.
That's precisely the problem. You have just kissed the tush of someone who would not pretend to have 1% of the knowledge of those who you call posers. Well done.
In my opinion, the merger is great for MN soccer. Again, an opportunity shows its head for the further developmenet/congregation of the highest levels of players.... and some in the State simply complain about it. Not everyone can gain something from their current level of play with their current team/club.
More options = better service to EVERY level of player.
I applaud Thunder/Bangu/Wings for getting this off the ground. It is my sincere wish that everything works out as planned and ti works out. I have no reason to doubt it will (nor should anyone else), given the accomplishments of Bangu over their relatively short lifespan thus far.
I'm Timmy. I'm 3. Every day I play with my toys in a sandbox. One day Bobby came over to play in my sandbox. He brought some toys. We played with our toys in my sandbox for a few days, and then Bobby decided he wanted to play in a sandbox with nicer sand. So he left one day. I'm sad because he took some of my toys when he left.
Dear ol England looked like world beaters. They were 6-0 vs Andorra,Estonia and Israel. They outscored them a gazillion to zero.Anybody know where Andorra is?
Then the choking began. They lost to Russia and Croatia the last two games.
England playing classic possession soccer..Neville sent a slow rolling backpass to Robinson the GK. Robinson wound up with all his might and tried to deliver a mighty kick.....Yikes..Robinson whiffs and the ball rolls into the goal.Croatia wins.
First, you are hardly a "community" club from Stillwater. In fact, the teams you mention have benefitted greatly from players in surrounding communities - I know, you guys grew all those players lol not recruited them from other area clubs, huh?
the 14B team that you knocked out on pks smacked back pretty hard a couple weeks later, huh?
the 16B was a finals game, not semis, and you beat a team that had been decimated from past years by player movement, while you guys have done a good job consolidating players (read: recruiting from WBL and elsewhere) at the same time.
congrats to both those groups for sure they deserve it but you are a little disingenuous in trying to paint yourself as this little community club, thats just crazy
Great move by the Thunder and Bangu and Wings. Thanks to Manny Lagos and the new owners and also the visionaries at Bangu and Wings who set aside past differences and did what was best for soccer and the top level kids. This will speed up the progress of improving level of play in Minnesota faster than Bangu was doing on their own. Salut!
When you were naming top athletes you forgot some big ones. Tony Sanneh played every minute of the 2002 world cup at right back for the US. He won MLS titles and he played 5 seasons in the Bundesliga. An SPA grad and a Blackhawk National Champion. Local product for sure. Manny Lagos a bunch of MLS seasons winning multiple MLS titles, played in the 92 Olympic Games in Barcelona, and was on the Blackhawk National Championship team. Tom Presthus from Edina HS played a bunch of MLS seasons and played for Bangu as a youth players.
It's great that Manny Lagos is getting involved in the youth development in Minnesota through the Thunder's new relationship with Bangu and Wings. We need people with experience at the top levels of soccer to help improve the overall level of youth soccer soccer in Minnesota. It's too bad an alliance like this took so long to put together. It would have been even better if this happened 5-10 years ago. But as they say "better late than never".
Blah blah blah. Idea du jour. Look down the road 10 years. Thunder is defunct or, worse, still irrelevant. Blaine has become the National Lacrosse/Rugby Center, with soccer played on only fields Z-1 to Z-25 (north of Hinckley). Our kids are all in college, with 2 of the MYSA's current thousands playing at a meaningful level (yes, one of them is yours). And a whole new group of parents/coaches/experts are devising the next big deal to cater to this state's "elite" players. Some things will never change.
jan, So you're the expert...should we leave it to Valley United, Circle Pines and Mankato to bring our youth players development up to speed here in Minnesota? Or do you think there's a chance the likes of Buzz Lagos, Manny Lagoes, Amos magee and Mark Abboud might be better suited for that task?
The MRL's first division playoffs were last weekend in Indy (to determine who moves up to MRL premier next year). Congrats to BNG U14 boys, SCV U16 boys and WDB U17 girls for earning promotions to MRL premier. MA's girls got clobbered.
I'll put my money on VLY U and MNK, thank you. But what do I know...I can't even see the @#$%ing ball.
MA has good teams because he's a charismatic salesman. He, like others in his club (Cook, Singer, Storlien), has no idea how to teach the game of soccer. Just proves the point that not all pro soccer players are pro coaches.
9:44 - and your evaluations of his coaching expertise are based on......? In reading your comments you must be someone learned in soccer coaching, so please educate us in who are solid MN soccer coaches.
I hate Bangu, therefore all their coaches are bad......you've got to love the thought process on some of the bloggers. I have no idea if they are good coaches or bad, but you've got to just chuckle.
Tearing down coaches is easy, but the comments have no foundation. Ask the players how happy they are with their soccer education and experience and you will get the best picture. Ask college coaches about the development of players and who is the most prepared, that will give you the other side of it.
Funny how all the coaches the hate monger mentioned are Bangu coaches. It must eat this guy up every time he loses to a Bangu team. Not a good way to go through life harboring all that anger and jealousy. This fool must really be bent out of shape given the Thunder-Wings-Bangu announcement and needs to vent. He's too much the girly-man to ever say that to any of their faces.
Soccer success comes from gathering all the best players (fairly easy) and making them better (fairly hard). Bangu rocks at the former...I'm not so sure about the latter.
Back in 2002 and 2003 when the Tsunami Sota girls were National Finalists 2 consecutive years did Storlien make that team better? Or would they have won the National Championship without him? Just wondering if some of you "behind the keyboard coaches" and experts think you could take a team that far?
For those who want to bash MA's team, they went to MRL playoffs without a goalkeeper(out with a concussion) All but one goal would have been saved by a real keeper, not the three field players who rotated in goal. 1-0, 4-2 and 1-1 is not getting clobbered, and they were the better team in each game. Bad luck for them and hopefully their keeper will be healthy for regionals or they could be in for a long weekend.
C'mon...anybody could have coached the Tsunami Sota to the championship. They were one of the greatest collection of players in the states history. Any way ,that's ancient history.
3:10: I'm not sure ANYBODY but you make a good point. I'm reminded of pro basketball coach Pat Riley's response to the question... "What's been the secret to your success with the Lakers"? He replied "Kareem,Kareem,Kareem"... That's ancient history too ...
As a parent of a player on one of the teams the Bangus played last weekend (visiting this site to learn about our regional opponents next weekend), I can tell you that their sick keeper excuse for not winning is a weak one. Not sure who MA is, but both the Bangus teams were inferior to the MRL competition. The powder-blue uniforms were cute, though.
3:10 So was the Jefferson HS Boys State Championship team in 2004 also a collection of the greatest talent ever assembled in Minnesota too??? Or was that championship just dumb luck? Amazing how top level teams just fall into this guy's lap whether it's club, high school or now with the Lightning...isn't it? He must be the luckiest coach in the state of Minnesota.
Why, Ben, aren't we defensive? My daughter plays for the Internationals U14s (from Ohio), and my son's U15 team will be playing at Regionals (though Sportscore in Rockford is supposedly flooded). My daughter's team beat one of the Bangus teams Saturday morning, a weak Wisconsin team Saturday afternoon and another Bangus team Sunday morning. The second Bangus team was stronger.
This thread is hilarious, though. I get the impression maybe four people are doing all the posting. Go back to work...no one who matters is reading.
it is sad that adults choose to personally rip players by name (or by description that makes it easy for most to identify said player.)
grow up folks, it is youth soccer. find some other way to boost your self esteem than on the backs of kids. That you think they deserve it does not make it OK.
4:49, yes, Bangu did beat my son's team last year, though I'm not sure what your point is. Too bad we won't be able to re-match at regionals this year.
I'm a player. I've not heard if i've made the final cut for ODP. I'm a bit pissed off about it, as those out of state SSM kids made it to only 2 made 3 try out dates. It hard to beat a kid out if he not there. Do any of you coaches think for two seconds why they can't make or don't go out for their own odp team. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THERE!!! They don't show up. I've always thought I could put up with alot of crap, but I think i've finally had my fill.
Before some of you parents say i need to work harder. why should i, so i can try and beat out a kid who isn't there? i can work, play, practice as much as possible unless they show up, i won't be able to beat them.
Nice comment - degrading to girls soccer don't you think. Women's sports will never attain the same level as men's sports as long as this sort of comments are made. I sincely hope you are not from Minnesota.
8:34-- Have your Club Coach contact your age groups ODP coach and ask for a copy of your evaluation forms from tryouts. Each player had one completed. Use the weaknesses outlined on your evaluation form to work on the things that you need to get better on to make the team next year.
ODP is full of "issues" like you describe. You either have thick skin and keep on trying....or you give up. Depends on what kind of person you are. I won't bore you with the "issues" my child has gone through....but let's just say that she is no longer a part of the ODP program. That being said, it IS a good system and IS worthwhile. Don't give up on it.
The Tsunami Sota 02-03 team was one of the best from MN. Not one of them made it to the National Team. They were not good enough. Yet they were the only team to go to back to back finals out of all the teams at Nationals in 02 and 03 in every age group and both genders. I think if you asked the players they would say the coach did a great job, I know the coach well and I promise you this he would say that they won because he had great players. Its so hard to make it that far. Watch what happens in Rockford, MN will be lucky to get to one Regional Final. This coach you are hammering on took 4 teams to the Regional finals in 5 years. Let me know the next time someone does that.
yeah and the one year Storlien's team did not make it to the finals they lost in the semis, not a bad 01-05 run for his teams. The sockers and eclipse combine because the Sota team knocked each of them out the previous two years.
I also read that he's unsure. No, information so far is out. Which is quite a bit later than in the past. Opportunities are limited for these players, and the longer ODP sits the more opportunities pass some of these players up.
However, the main point was, how does a player beat out a kid who only shows up to 3 of the 10 or so trainings?
To add to that the rummor right now is, Coach CC told his boys they just needed to make an appearance. That he has already sold them to the regional coaches and the regional coaches want to see them. Please note, this is what the players are saying and could easy be incorrect. But the actions of SSM out state players seem to support the rummor. They obviously don't feel they need to show up and prove themselves.
I would like to credit for this analogy but it came from someone else (who heard it second hand) regarding the new thunder/wings/bangu club. the analogy was to call it the mall of america of MN youth soccer. i have to say after thinking about it, it is a good analogy. i have lived in MN my whole life and when the big MOA came along it was the greatest thing. everyone was excited because it was the biggest and best of its time, had something for everyone, brought in interest and put MN shopping on the map. of course, for the individual store, there wasn't much differentiation or exclusivity but they got just sales because they were there. the mall grew in popularity and then peaked. however, over time the locals didn't want to fight the traffic and the local stores/malls got stronger and more competitive to where today most people go to MOA occasionally but not routine. plus shoppers want more personalized service and don't have the extra time to walk past 20 stores to get to the one thing they want that is right around the corner. it is still attractive to the out of town visitor but the in town folks see it more as ho-hum than a state treasure. again, if I can get what i want at Eden Prairie center, i ain't driving to Bloomington (or Blaine as the case may be).
so the new mall of america of soccer (Thunder/Bangu/Wings) will probably go along much like any new business with early success and headlines. they will still probably have a great holiday season (state cup), and be an attraction to out of state people. they will put some local clubs out of business (ie Wings). but over time, other states have built bigger malls and if the local clubs do their job, MOA will either adjust or lose recruits to cc's that step up and become more desirable and convenient to the local quality kids
the net is, this is another good move to raise the level of soccer in mn that will continue to raise visibility and force improvement at the local level. alone it doesn't change the landscape of MN soccer but if it brings more attention, so be it!
I think what we've all seen over the last few years is all the CC's stepping it up to compete with the soccer only clubs. Good for them for upgrading their offerings, bad for them as they had to have someone force them to do it.
If the MOA was the catalyst to push the other malls into making themselves better and your analogy is accurate, then the new Thunder Academy sounds like a huge win-win for everyone. Shoppers (parents) vote with their pocketbooks so only time will tell.
People need to stop bashing the MA and DS fraternity of coaches. They, and the others being bashed, have spent much of their lives contributing to MN football as good players, good coaches, and positive role models to many. Remember, no coach is ever liked by everyone.
There isn't a better group of "young" football minds in this state who have grown in this state and dedicated themselves to MN football to make an attempt at building MN football with "progressive" ideas. It would be difficult to find a better group of football people in the Midwest Region than ML, AM, MA, DS, MC, ES, GH, etc. I may not like every coach in that fraternity, but I would love to play within it.
Part of the reason Storlien has had talent at a lot of his teams is because a) he recognizes talent (he selects most of his players) and b) talent wants to play for him. Many of the girls on the Lightning play for the Lightning because they want to play for Storlien.
When was the last time Jefferson Boys had multiple players get playing time in college? For the most part, he turned rag-tag bunches into respectable football teams at Jefferson in a matter of two months. Find someone around who is better than him at doing that.
There it is again, the F word, FRATERNITY. Let's call it what it is, the good ole boy network. I for one would love to see a tiny bit of DIVERSITY in MN coaching.
I suppose the sorority could use more than the Gophers' head coach, JE, and three MIAC head coaches, amongst a few others not mentioned.
This lack of diversity in US coaching shouldn't stop this MN fraternity from being dedicated and committed to building MN football on both the sides of the gender card, right? Thwingu isn't strictly a football club for boys, correct?
Thwingu -- er, Bangu -- already owns the girls' side of the gender card, so I can't imagine there will be many opportunities for non-Bangu girls to find a spot in this new "club." I expect to see a LOT of movement on the boys' side, as there's much more parity currently with the boys. Not for long, though (he, he). I hope we start handing out the "We think you're good enough for Thwingu" buttons again.
I am a bit confused about the wording in the ODP post. He talks about kids making 2 of 3 tryouts. Tryouts? That was held some time ago, and the State teams were announced on the MYSA website. If he is talking about training, and making the final cut to Regional Camp....that is different. If you read my post, it talks from a perspective that he is talking about tryouts.
The same principles apply though if you don't make the cut for Regional Camp, don't they? Let me give you some KNOWN examples from my home State that are meant only to demonstrate that what you may be experiencing isn't a Minnesota only problem.
Example 1) Girl doesn't show up to ODP tryouts AT ALL. Doesn't pay the fee to tryout, and just flat out doesn't show up. No valid reason, just doesn't show up. (TWO YEARS IN A ROW!!) Girl's name appears on the roster both years for the State team.
Example 2) Girl shows up at tryouts, but isn't selected for whatever reason. State ODP team trains hard all year to try and make the cut for Regional Camp (things are a bit different here, and try-outs take place three weeks after Regional Camp. 24 are selected, the 24 train all winter and cuts are made to 20 in June, then final cut made to 18 two weeks prior to Regional Camp). Player who wasn't selected was identified through other means, and joins the team in June for ONE session. The next week, the team is cut from (now) 25 to 20. Player makes the cut, and 5 others who have trained all year are cut. Player makes final cut and becomes a starter for the State ODP team at Regional Camp. Three weeks later, tryouts happen again. Player goes from starting 11 to not making the top 25 and does not make the team. What changed? The child decided to attend a boarding school in another State....black balled by resident State.
MORAL OF THE EXAMPLES: 1) Kids all over are given "free passes" for lots of reasons. Many times it has to do with the fact that the coaches know the players in question and can make assumptions based upon a known entity. Not sure if it is right or not....just that it is common.
2) Not that any of you will really care, unless it happened to your kid...but some of these SSM kids ARE good enough to make thier parents' home State ODP program (and have been involved in them). Once they make the decision to make the move to SSM, they are then cut by thier previous State-- I have seen this not take place if the kid is either a Regional or National Pool player. Those cut are then out in the cold, unless they can make the MN team. The goal of the ODP system is to identify the best kids eligible to try out in a State. SSM kids are in an unusual situation where they are eligible to try out in one of two States (the one thier parents live in, and the one they attend boaring school in). Is it right that MN kids may be cut for an "out of State SSM player"? I dunno. But, it isn't right how some of these players are treated in thier previous State ODP programs either....but I realize that it isn't the problem of those in MN.
Tough situation both ways. I can tell you that from my perspective my family isn't out to "hurt" anyone in MN, but just looking out for the best interest of our player.
Everyone should be on equal ground and be able to honestly compete for positions regardless of the politics of us adults. What ODP is tasked with is finding the best players-- not the best players who fit a certain political mold.
Sorry for the book, just wanted to give another perspective.
Can we all agree... For the most part, ODP selections are made BEFORE kids show up to "tryouts" .I would say the same holds true for picking the roster that heads to Regional Camp etc. Yes, one unknown may slip into the bunch, but in general, the coaches already know who they like. And, for the record, mine were a couple of the lucky ones....
Regarding Thingu... One of my kids (playing D1 soccer) calls to ask if it’s true and what does Mom think. Soc-Mom isn’t so optimistic but what’s the young adult read. I was told that this just may be the thing MN needs. What????? Yes, MN needs one club that all the good players want to play for. Pardon me, what about Bangu? No, not so much really, especially the guys. Hmm…. The one in question played premier,mwl,odp and for both teams coming under the Thunder banner. Maybe Mom’s wrong... Time will tell.
SSMSC, I know your story, however, ODP is always a revolving door. I believe that ODP is a state wide pool. They can add and drop players at will. The same holds true for the Regional ODP and Natl teams. The teams are ALWAYS changing. So, if the Regional and Natl teams are doing this, why cant State ODP?
Yea, at first I didnt agree with players being added after tryouts ($20 tryout fee wasnt paid), players being added after many ODP sessions. But hey, its about getting the best players in camp. Just look at this yrs 91 team that will be going to DeKalb, the General Managers kid who QUIT is now back on the team. Is that right?? mmmmmmmmmmm? This kid is too busy during the winter months doing her what ever she is doing, but now that DeKalb is gearing up, guess what, she appears again. Is she a top talent? Maybe a top 15, but the lack of dedication should be questioned??
I know that this doesnt need to be on this thread, but its the only one moving right now.
What does everyone think about the Region IV tournament that is going on right now out in HI, Region IV has Quarter Finals, then Semis, then the final. Region II goes from Bracket winner to Semis, the top 4 teams. So how can Region IV get away with this when all teams will be going to the same Nationals?? Governered by the same rules. There is a Slammer team that advanced to the Quarters, but if it was the same format at Region II, you have to win your bracket, then they would of NOT advanced. You just watch, the Slammers will win it.
For ODP selections, it's very easy to select the top 5-10 players. It's also easy to select the bottom 5-10 players. In between there, it gets gray. Different coaches will look for different things. Some will look for size, or positional players, or dedication, or passion, or skill, parental support, or athleticism, or future potential, or brown-nosers, or previous camp experience, or the new kid on the block, etc. You never know.
So the best way to secure your place on the camp team is to work harder, play more, and get yourself in the top 5-10 players. If you're surprised you didn't make the camp roster and thought you were in the top 10, you probably aren't in the top 10.
Bottom line, don't get your undies in a bunch. It's only one year and one camp. If you truly like playing the game, you'll work your hiney off on your own in the next 6 months and make the team next year. Those who are discouraged and give up on the system don't deserve to be on the camp team anyway.
10:43-Where are the ODP results posted? Did players receive notice by mail? I didnt see it on the MYSA website or maybe I wasn't looking in the right area. Who made the U16 Boys? Thanks.
Regarding the R4 tournament...Check the U18G's out, Slammers ended bracket play with 6points,going 2 wins and 1 loss. Washington State has 7 points, going 2 wins and 1 draw. Both teams advance to the Qtrs. If this was any team in Region 2, and they didnt win bracket, they would be done.
The accepted players for the State team from tryouts was posted as a news item on the front page of MYSA's website. I just went and looked and it is no longer there.
ssm - that was for the original pool. the final teams were narrowed down to 18 and emails went out to all the kids who made it as well as the alternates. i've already heard of a few shockers that truly make you question the decision making process. i'm not a coach, but even i can identify who's got it and who doesn't. maradona hits it right on the head with his 11+ reasons why some kids are selected over others (maybe they pull names out of a hat?).
I think you are all incorrect. The ODP coaches just look for the girls wearing the powder blue socks, and select them. I don't think they even need to show up at the sessions, they just come to part of one session and show a blue sock or something similar. I think it is a secret code.
Doesn't SSM play US Club Soccer? Does US Club Soccer identify and send kids to ODP? If so why isn't SSM sending their players thru US Club Soccer were I don't believe the team is picked by a try out selection, but by having Regional Coaches watch them play in tournaments and games?
I know who some of the SSM boys from outstate are, they did not make the regional pool last year, and they were the kids that only showed up twice. If a player has made the Regional team I would expect them to make the MN State Select team as they talent has already been previously identified. The fact that these boys just happen to be from CC SSM U16 boys team, doesn't really surprise anyone as this is something he has done in the past. I would hazard to guess the rumors surround those selection is true, and that is a significant problem for both SSM and ODP.
Having seen them play at SSM and at ODP, I would certainly not place them in the top 5-10. The Bangu/CDA/WNG players are significantly better then they are.
Maybe I am missing something here...but US Club identifying/sending kids to a USYS program? The younger SSM teams are strictly US Club Soccer and don't even have US Youth Soccer player cards. As far as I know, you can't be on a USYS ODP team without a USYS player card.
I think at least two or three of the out state SSM boys play on the U16 team. U17 Bangu, U17 EDP & U17 CDA all beat them. I think the U17WNG was the only team in 17’s to lose to them. SSM U17 tied Bangu & EDP, CDA did not play them for some unknown reason (I do not think they were invited). SSM has a good program, but I would say that their record against these teams does not indicate they are so much better that all they have to do is put in an appearance.
I believe Ryan McCarthy & Dula Fadis (probably spelled both their names wrong, my apologies) from this year U17 Bangu team were invited to the camp. Poses an interest question thou if the younger teams only play US Club, why are they not participating in ID2 instead of ODP? I do not know a lot about the program but on face value, it seems like it would be easier for the SSM parents and players to participate in ID2 than in ODP.
If anyone has any additional information on ID2 it would be interesting to hear about it.
I think those that are new (the last 4-5 years) to MYSA soccer should take a few deep breaths. In the late 90's Blackhawks were winning 4-8 state cup titles each year and they were the best. St. Croix Valley had 2-3 years after where Kate, Tim and Jeff had perennial state up champions and the boys side won 2-3 each year also. Now Bangu has one a few for the last 3-4 years and that is awesome. The merger will be great for many of the kids, teams and coaches. Teams will will be stronger and a few players will improve. I have one question.
IS IT BETTER FOR ALL OF MINNESOTA SOCCER TO PULL KIDS AT 9 AND PUT THE BEST TOGETHER?
For years I have seen young players learn from eachother. The best players show the next level that moves and skill can be performed during a game. Others try to recreate it and the level improves.
for years many of the better soccer clubs had even teams at U10, U11 and even U12 to develop all of the players in the age group, and it worked. Now are less kids going to be shown what it takes to be good and see what great players at their age can do.
Seems most, if not all of them, developed their professional talents while stuck in community clubs when they were kids. I bet they were less stressed and had more fun too.
Scurry played for a club called Sota when she left her community. You might now recognize that club SOTA as the now called club Bangu.
So far the boys are stinkin the place out at regions.It's time to move coaches like MA,DS etc over to the boys side as they are in great need of development.
How do you figure they are stinking up the place? The biggest blow out I think was the U13 Bangu team. I'm still trying to figure out why they even have Regionals for the U13's. Most of the time one young stud will control the field.
Be honest your just trying to get rid of MA & DS. :)
so far the 14s and 16s havnt stunk it up,the 17s drew also? DS wont coach a team unless the best players,developed elsewhere,come together as an allstar team.That plan failed last year,so much for development eh?
I believe Ryan McCarthy & Dula Fadis (probably spelled both their names wrong, my apologies) from this year U17 Bangu team were invited to the camp. Poses an interest question thou if the younger teams only play US Club, why are they not participating in ID2 instead of ODP? I do not know a lot about the program but on face value, it seems like it would be easier for the SSM parents and players to participate in ID2 than in ODP.
If anyone has any additional information on ID2 it would be interesting to hear about it.
21/6/08 4:38 PM Anonymous said... I think those that are new (the last 4-5 years) to MYSA soccer should take a few deep breaths. In the late 90's Blackhawks were winning 4-8 state cup titles each year and they were the best. St. Croix Valley had 2-3 years after where Kate, Tim and Jeff had perennial state up champions and the boys side won 2-3 each year also. Now Bangu has one a few for the last 3-4 years and that is awesome. The merger will be great for many of the kids, teams and coaches. Teams will will be stronger and a few players will improve. I have one question.
IS IT BETTER FOR ALL OF MINNESOTA SOCCER TO PULL KIDS AT 9 AND PUT THE BEST TOGETHER?
For years I have seen young players learn from eachother. The best players show the next level that moves and skill can be performed during a game. Others try to recreate it and the level improves.
for years many of the better soccer clubs had even teams at U10, U11 and even U12 to develop all of the players in the age group, and it worked. Now are less kids going to be shown what it takes to be good and see what great players at their age can do.
to be honest people don't leave to play with the best. They just want more for there kids than some dad yelling at there kid while practicing something they love more than 2 months a year.
My daughter left one of the best teams in the state in her age group to join a weaker team that has a better perspective on soccer.
Most leave to gain something more than a better team.
Since this thread was about the Thunder and their supposed resurgence, it looks like they are returning to form (1-1-3 this month and 4-4-4 this year, for a (yawn) middle of the table spot just above the high-school varsity level boys from Miami FC (yes, the team that offered the Thunder three hilarious goals in one half last month). Anybody else wonder where all of the supposed new zest has dribbled off to?
I think we should close all travelling basketball teams and put one MN basketball team. I think we should dissolve all iron range hoickey and make one strong team... crazy ideas from another person who has no clue about sports. who cares for my little johnny to be playing with the so call best at U9? Even at any age, these kids will not be professional to make a decent living from the sport. So let's get over this idea of trying to create a super team - wonder if you are a coach or a parent
anon 5:09 Relax...nobody is advocating having just one team or one club. Let's just put the top 18 together on 1 team so we can compete with Illinois, Michigan and Ohio. There will still be teams for all the other kids.
1,754 comments:
1 – 200 of 1754 Newer› Newest»This is the Bangu communication:
To all BTFC Families,
The Bangu Tsunami FC board is excited to announce that our BTFC clubs (BNG, BTE, BTN) will be joining forces with the Minnesota Thunder and Wings Soccer Club to launch the Minnesota Thunder Academy.
We know many of you have heard rumors over the past few months as we discussed options and possibilities with the Thunder.
The changes your teams will see are minimal. The biggest change will be the name change for the U13-U19 teams from Bangu Tsunami FC to Minnesota Thunder Elite Academy and for the U8-U12 teams from Bangu Tsunami (East, North or South) Academy to Minnesota Thunder Academy (East, North or South). The press release states there will be two teams formed at each age group/gender U13-U19. That is the plan for the future, but please rest assured that we have no plans to eliminate any teams from age levels where we currently have more than two. We envision increased opportunities for our players, coaches, and teams as a result of this merger.
The people involved with the success of Bangu Tsunami will still be leaders and decision makers for Minnesota Thunder Academy teams and players will now have access to the resources the Minnesota Thunder has to offer as well as the combined resources Wings SC and Bangu Tsunami bring to the table.
Please review the press release below and forward on to your teams as soon as you can. This information is now posted on our website and will be released by the Thunder to their extensive distribution network tomorrow.
We understand you will have many questions and we will provide more details in coming weeks.
Thank you,
Barry Neal - President
Bob Hoaglin - Vice President
Rob Zahl - Boys Coaching Director
Mark Cook - Girls Coaching Director
Danny Storlien - Elite Director
Mark Abboud - Director of Player Development
This will be the Thunder Press Release:
Thunder Announce Revolutionary Youth Development System
Minnesota Thunder joins forces with Bangu Tsunami FC and Wings SC, two of the state’s most successful clubs, to develop an international-style soccer academy
(June 12, 2008) The Minnesota Thunder Professional Soccer Team has taken a bold new step to help reshape the soccer landscape and make Minnesota a national innovator in soccer development. After seven months of extensive dialogue and collaborative research, the Thunder has combined two of the elite soccer clubs in Minnesota under the Thunder banner to add a new dimension to youth soccer in the state. With the inclusion of Bangu Tsunami FC and Wings SC, the Thunder Academy will begin with over 90 competitive teams forming one of the largest clubs in the Midwest. Together the two elite clubs have produced 39 State Cup Champions, 6 Regional Finalists, and 3 Regional Champions since 2002.
Coinciding with the inception of the Minnesota Thunder Academy (MTA), the Thunder will offer an Open Affiliate Program which is available to all soccer clubs. This program is designed to help Minnesota soccer youth organizations promote the sport in their community, by offering access to the Thunder’s growing network of resources, players, and coaches. “Since our inception in 1990 the Thunder has served as a soccer ambassador to the Minnesota community,” comments Thunder owner Dean Johnson, “This new program is an extension of our overall cooperative vision.”
The Minnesota Thunder Academy will be comprised of Regional Academies (North, South, East, West, and Urban) and the Minnesota Thunder Elite Academy.
Regional Academies are open to all interested players and will provide professional leadership for recreational and competitive players ages 4 to 19. “The great thing about this collaboration is that these Regional Academies will embrace the structure and programming of both Bangu Tsunami FC and Wings SC, in addition to the youth development philosophy of the Minnesota Thunder,” says team President Manny Lagos.
The Minnesota Thunder Elite Academy will be focused on the development of Minnesota’s top players. There will be two teams formed at each age group/gender from U13 to U19 with the goal of regional and national success. “Our philosophy is to bring together talented players under the guidance of top-level coaches in order to help the players reach their full potential,” states Thunder Technical Director Steve Bellis.
Including Thunder Regional Academies and the Thunder Elite Academy, over 1400 players will wear the Thunder badge beginning in the fall of 2008.
Modeling the structure on existing European and South American academies, the Minnesota Thunder Academy will provide a uniquely American path from youth to professional. “I’m committed to adding more Minnesota players to the Thunder roster,” states Thunder Head Coach Amos Magee, “This youth initiative will help us identify and develop future Thunder and Lightning first team prospects.”
The Minnesota Thunder Academy has hired the following Directors to oversee this progressive program:
Mark Cook MTA Girls Elite Team Director
Chad Moore MTA Girls Elite Team Director
Rob Zahl MTA Boys Elite Team Director
Tod Herskovitz MTA Boys Elite Team Director
Mark Abboud MTA Technical Director
Steve Bellis MTA Technical Director
The Thunder Academy’s innovative youth to pro structure, along with its history of successful soccer in the Midwest, has already sparked dialogue and interest from potential European partners. These relationships are expected to include player and coach exchange as well as shared best practices.
The Thunder Academy will be a non-profit organization focused on providing soccer opportunities for all participants regardless of economic status. “In the United States, many high potential athletes are prohibited from taking advantage of professional-level training due to financial restraints. A goal of the Thunder Academy is to provide cost reduction and eventual program cost elimination for all players through Thunder partnerships and sponsorships,” adds Thunder Technical Director Mark Abboud.
The Thunder Academy is actively seeking out the most interested soccer players and coaches to participate in structured, year-round training within team contexts. Tryouts for U8-U11 players will be in July and for U12 and older players in August. Tryouts will be open to all interested players, regardless of previous club affiliation and led by Thunder Academy Directors, Thunder Academy professional staff members, and Thunder/Lightning players.
Full program details will be available by June 30, 2008, at the Thunder website, www.mnthunder.com
John Jerabek, Wings SC Board Member
Wings SC is extremely excited about this opportunity. One of our main goals in structuring this arrangement was to provide opportunities for growth for all players within the organization, without requiring the children to leave their neighborhood teams at an early age or lose the community programming that both clubs have found successful. The combined programs will provide for the development of every player at every ability and level of interest by bringing together Minnesota's top youth and professional coaching staffs, providing additional training opportunities for all players and enhancing those programs that have a proven track record of success. This model provides the best of both worlds for the children in our community and provides a model organization for Minnesota youth soccer where the good of the players and families come first.
Rob Zahl, Bangu Tsunami FC Boys Coaching Director
I have been with Bangu Tsunami FC as a player, coach and director for nearly 20 years and have seen us grow from a handful of teams to the most competitive club in the state. We began discussions with the Thunder late last year and the end result is an amazing collaboration for Minnesota soccer.
Along with the Wings SC and the Minnesota Thunder, we have created a unique development environment that will enable us to set the curve not only statewide but also nationally. I am thrilled to be involved with this group and very excited to see the quality opportunity we will provide for the soccer community.
So if I coached 5 of the 39 State Cup Champs between these two clubs, do I get 13% of the money?
From what I see this is a great move by the Wings and Bangu to hook up with the Thunder especially if as is mentioned in the release that the Thunder's sponsorships and new financial backing will lower costs now or in future for the elite players whose fees are very expensive due to indoor training time and travel to elite college search tournaments.
This should be a positive for the elite level players in Minnesota.
Bangu with a different name. Don't see it any other way. This is a Thunder Blunder.
Hallelujah!
Finally we see some progressive soccer minds put their heads together and collaborate to form an organization that will give Minnesota players and teams a fighting chance against the other clubs in Region 2 and nationally.
We've watched mergers happen in other states while we've bickered and argued over whose club is the best and which club is stealing players at the expense of the kids in this state.
Congrats to Manny, Amos and the guys at Bangu and Wings for working out a plan to help our kids develop to their fullest potential.
I know we won't see dramatic improvement overnight but in my opinion we will see steady progess over the next 3-4 years as our kids reap the benefits this merger offers.
Bangu with a different name. Don't see it any other way. This is a Thunder Wonder.
Congrats guys and a big thank you from Minnesota soccer!
I think Wings threw in the towel and gave up,big club wannabes in disarray.Bellis gets involved and gets a staff job?
In reality its a Wings/Bangu merger,far too many of the same staff for it to be the real deal.
This being Mn. and people being like cattle they will get the top players and dominate,I think thats what some coaches really want,domination.
My two cents worth over at blueskysoccer.com
Don't be too hard on me please. Even though I was a youth coach for 18 years, I still find this whole thing fairly hard to explain to the guy or gal that follows pro soccer but may not have kids in MYSA and don't understand all the politics. It was tough to try to explain.
http://tinyurl.com/3k4aa5
One of my concerns with this merger lies in which kids will be given opportunities. If this goes the way of most MN soccer, players with connections to either Bangu or Wings will be given top priority. In assigning the important "directors" positions,5 of the 6 names listed are current Bangu or Wings coaches. It would have been nice to see some unfamiliar-unbiased names on that list. And, as I too am biased, I would have liked to see one woman employed at the highest level. More than one “Thunder" name or two would have been nice as well. Time will tell if this merger really produces highly developed soccer players or just reconstitutes the current crop of Bangu-Wings rosters under the Thunder name. (And, before anyone accuses me of being a parent of a player “cut” from Bangu or Wings, the truth is really the opposite).
socmom I believe SCV and WDB and other clubs that may interest you were also given opportunity to join this venture and may yet in the future. Lack of names from these and other clubs results from their current position.
It will be interesting to see how it plays out. It will also be interesting to see where these teams play. Do they place in MYSA leagues from u9-u12? How about u13+? Where do they place these 2 teams per age group at u13+? Will the state allow the 2 teams to be placed in different leagues? Or are they (Thunder) going to take the bold move of primarily playing out of state events (which would truly promote MN soccer regionally).
To me the creation of a mega mall of MN soccer like this really opens the door for community soccer programs if they do their job right. The fact is, less and less families today and in the future are going to pay the price to travel across the metro to be training 3x per week all winter if their local clubs offer it (even if it isn't quite the same level). Especially when their daughter/son become a 'number' in a big system of teams and players. Clearly this merger will appeal to the ego centric parents because the brand is awesome and the people that liked to brag about being on Bangu will brag even more about being on the Thunder. There will certainly be places where this merger will create great results but like any business merger there will be layoffs and fallout if not done properly.
This may be a good solution for the truly elite kids at the very top but in reality there aren't that many that are significantly better than the next tier. This will probably force community club to create US Club teams and allow their best players to get regional experience. Frankly, many community teams are doing 1-2 out of state tournaments now anyway so some of that exclusivity is gone.
Any time a small successful business (Bangu) is eaten up by a big business (Thunder) things change dramatically one way or another. Time will tell. My hope is that it becomes an elite club that focuses on training elite players for regional competition but allowing those kids to remain tethered to their community clubs for normal play. I know this wont happen but it would be nice regardless. The fact is, if they have numerous teams from u9-u12 and only 2 at u13, they are going to have to tell most kids that their time is limited at Bangu. If I am a good (not great) u12 player/family, I am not sure I would invest a another year at Bangu if I knew there was no team available at u13+ for me. Perhaps the net result will be to weed out the 'low end products' of many of the u9-u12 teams Bangu has today as cash cows.
For those Bangu and Wings kids that get lost in the shuffle, your new and improved community clubs await!
haha, "this is a Thunder blunder." Because its a blunder to add a club that won JUST ABOUT EVERY age group in state cup to your youth development program. The people on here are awesome... its like reverse darwinism.
This is a great move for Wings, great move for the Thunder, Bangu probably is risking the most, they didn't "need" this by any stretch, but they do stand to gain in the few areas they would be seeking.
Smart move all around. Now everyone who is not a part of it can start bashing... three, two, one... go!
I think that is a really good point concerning the community clubs. In some ways, this may be the best thing that happened to them. They may thrive in this environment. I don't think the Thunder are against this by any means and of course will want their trainers to work with these teams. But really that isn't necessary. However, this does change the landscape of MYSA and I would think that it will be hard to sustain any sort of Premier league anymore.
Au contraire, I think that it will improve the premier league. All the kids that benefited from the training but did not get selected to the elite teams at 13+ will go back to the community club world. This will only serve to boost the level of play in that league. The two elite teams will be more focused regionally and nationally. And it should beef up the teams that opt to play MRL.
Let's set our sights super-high, everyone. How about, "My goal in life is to have my kid play for the Thunder (or Lightning)!" I mean, really, at best we're talking semi-pro soccer here ... i.e., Jackie Moon and the Flint Tropics, not Pele and the New York Cosmos.
I received an email the other day from a woman who played at the top level in my club, and who is now playing for the Lightning (and the U of M women's team). Congrats, youg lady, you MADE it to the Minnesota Lightning professional soccer team. Do you suppose they travel in private jets and stay at the Ritz? Not quite. She needs to sell tickets to games so she can pay for her uniforms and travel. Huh? And this is professional soccer? A few years ago some Thunder players appeared at an event my club hosted, and after the event they asked my wife for gas money to get back home. And this is professional soccer?
Yes, I hear the team has deep-pocketed new owners, but if they don't fill the seats at games, they won't stick around long. And if I read the release right, the new "Thuwingu" players won't have to pay to play in this program or to attend Thunder games, so there goes two revenue sources. I guess they still have those camps (coming soon to a playground near you).
I expect that for a few years this program will satisfy the need for a small group of soccer Napoleans to dominate Minnesota soccer, help defray the expenses for players who seek to play "professional" soccer for the Thunder and Lightning, and massage the egos of nutjob parents who are convinced their little Jimmy or Ashley is the next Freddy or Mia.
Do you think this state has more than one player at each age group who will play on the U.S. national team? Do we need a club with 100+ teams and 1,400 players to identify this person? Face it, 99% of the players in Minnesota will play their final competitive soccer game in high school. Actually, many of them won't even make their high school team.
Personally, I'm proud to be part of a club that serves a broad geographical area, provides year-round development to those who seek it, has an outstanding full-time coaching director and offers teams from C3 to Premier and MRL. My club has had its share of State Cup winners, and hasn't needed to recruit from other clubs because it has been able to develop its own strong players and teams. Interestingly, very few of my club's top players leave.
Finally, I really wish the MYSA wasn't so silent on this issue. Assuming they care about the development of high-caliber players in this state, they are suspiciously absent in the discussion.
Isn't ODP supposed to do what these guys are proposing? My son did two years of ODP and didn't this year because he felt his club training was better.
Anon 10:49.Insightful post!!!
BUT,isn't it a good thing the Lightning players don't get paid ?
If they did, wouldn't the bulk of the roster be breaking some kind of NCAA rule ?
So, what does this mean for the Wings/Wayzata effort that was announced early this year?
Can't it ever be about just getting better as a soccer player? About the player challenging themselves? If everyone felt the same way as 10:49, then why do we have NCAA football, basketball, etc.... How many of those kids every make it professionally? How many MN kids are big time professional athletes? Seriously, start naming them. Why can't kids just compete without there being some underlying financial motivation. Now on the other hand, without the higher level competition, most of the players (mainly girls) would not receive the college scholarships that they are currently enjoying or will in the future (especially to 11:09's point and the Lightning).
People - put this all in perspective. It is about getting better not about being a pro. I guess why we're at it we might as well get rid of the junior symphony, math clubs, advance placement classes, spelling bees, etc... It's the jouney not the destination that matters.
"Isn't ODP supposed to do what these guys are proposing? My son did two years of ODP and didn't this year because he felt his club training was better."
10:51 AM, Did you read the BSS article?
11:35, exactly.
I'm glad MYSA is silent on this... they are already WAY too involved (I've been around and I've never been in a state where the state association and its archaic rule plays such a big role in leagues).
MYSA has NO BUSINESS even having an opinion on this issue. What are you hoping, they will block it somehow??? Neither you or they have ANY right to stop the Thunder, Bangu, and Wings from joining forces. There are no antitrust laws in youth soccer.
sorry charlie. My suspicion is your club your so proud of was offered a chance to be a part of this but your "full time coaching director" you champion so much was too worried about losing his place at the table to put the kids first.
socmom,
The names announced will be coaching and technical directors, not board members. They won't be running the club.
My understanding is that the Wings will have 2 representatives on the board, Bangu 2 reps and the Thunder 3 reps. None of the names mentioned as coaching directors etc will be sitting on the board.
If this is true it's a neat setup.
I agree with 11:35's conclusion 100%. It needs to be about the journey, not the destination.
Playing soccer at a high level can open doors for you that you never expected, this has happened several times for my daughter.
However, too often, parents and players do not enter those newly opened doors for fear of becoming derailed from the ultimate prize, whatever that is.
In fact, this is where I take issue with your post, 11:35. The college scholarships you mention are meaningless destinations for too many athletes and parents. I know WAY too many who put getting a college scholarship as the be all and end all.
So, it's off topic (has that ever stopped anyone here?), but let's examine the college scholarship.
1st - It is something only a tiny fraction of 1% of all athletes achieve. In fact, I think that is why it is so valued. It indicates an exceptional achievement and is therefore great for the ego.
2nd- The vast majority of scholarships are not 100%. At best, you may be offered a 50%-75% scholarship. Much more common though, is a 25% or a walk on (0%) with an opportunity to move up to that 50-75% by your junior and senior years.
3rd - Scholarships rarely make college affordable. See the above. Most parents spend far more on soccer through the years than they would ever save on college costs. An exception would be for offers to out of state private schools - the Dukes and Stanfords of the world.
4th - many athletes never "enjoy" their scholarships as 11:35 put it, except as a status symbol. For many it is a huge time commitment that detracts from much of the rest of the college experience, socially and academically. I know of athletes that purposefully choose certain majors because they are known to be easy, and "jock orientated", rather than because they are interested in the major or hope to pursue a career in the field.
12:51 (this is 11:35). I agree with your assessment regarding parents, players, and scholarships. Hopefully the few that do attain them can reap the full benefits of the doors that they open.
Re: 11:35's request to name serious pro athletes from Minnesota, ummm...these are off the top of my head.
BASEBALL: Glen Perkins, Joe Mauer, Kent Hrbek, Paul Molitor, Jack Morris, Dave Winfield, Terry Steinbach, Greg Olson.
FOOTBALL: Marian Barber, Thomas Tapeh, Chris Weinke.
HOCKEY: Phil Housley, Herb Brooks 2/3 of the 1980 Miracle on Ice team, Neal/Aaron Broten, tons more.
BASKETBALL: Kris Humphries, Joel Pryzbilla, Kevin McHale, Lindsey Whalen.
GOLF: Tim Lehman, Tim Herron, Patty Berg.
SKIING: Cindy Nelson, Kristina Koznik, Lindsey Vonn.
SOCCER: Brianna Scurry.
Seems most, if not all of them, developed their professional talents while stuck in community clubs when they were kids. I bet they were less stressed and had more fun too.
Bangu finally gets the fields it desperately needs and a tie-in to a real in-house program.
Wings stops the decline.
Thunder gets more $$$.
Looks good on paper today, but the real tests will come in a month or two when tryouts take place and decisions are made on who to retain and who to cut in the older/higher level age groups.
12:51- Yes, but scholarship or not, at the end of the college journey the player often has a degree. And, for many families, that's really the point.
anon 1:26,
Now take a look at the roster of the US Men's and Women's National teams and let us know how many of them played in elite soccer programs.
Or a list of the clubs the Bradenton Academy players came from for that matter.
To 12:02's point, you're totally right...there are no anti-trust laws in youth soccer. That doesn't make it right.
Imagine what would happen if other youth sports removed rules about where a kid can play, and allowed hockey players and basketball players to play anywhere instead of with their community/school team. I'm not a hockey parent, but imagine the ruckus that would break out if hockey players could move around like soccer players do. Hockey parents are ten times as nuts as soccer parents...just imagine the ruckus. Instead, they remain in their community -- except for the parents who physically move to accommodate their kid -- and the really good ones get seen and invited to play with national/ODP-type teams. Judging by the number of Minnesotans playing D1 and professional hockey, that model seems to work for them.
I would buy the “elite" hype if the three merging organizations were close to elite to start.
But it seems to me, there’s a long way to travel when considering the status of at least two of the parties.
What are you talking about this is a risk for Bangu?
Sure, if they wanted to keep their status as a Minnesota State juggernaut then yes, it is a risk, but what they and the rest of high level players here in Minnesota are trying to do, is make a club that compete regionally and possibly nationally.
This was an amazing move by Wings as well. Now they too, can compete regionally and possibly nationally.
But if you are really looking at the big picture here, this is to combat the first and real powerhouse of Minnesota soccer.
SHATTUCK
1:41,
One can conclude, then, that in your world, Minnesota Thunder = Elite Soccer Program.
Yikes.
I suppose if you recruit all the best kids to your program, you're half-way to creating that "elite" impression with the folks writing the checks.
I for one have never been impressed with the Thunder's programs.
If you take the best players in the area and form a super-team, you'll beat me.
If you take a group of rag-tag U9s and work with them and mold them and help them earn premier status at U14, you'll impress me.
Slainte.
anon 1:26, so maybe 40 players over the last 30 years? Also, keep in mind that many things have changed since 1980. Now imagine if all the names mentioned were now 12-13 years old today, the Winfields/Molitors, etc... would be playing in elite programs and regional American Legion-type teams, the McHales/Whalens/Bells would be playing on elite AAU basketball teams, and I doubt Brianna Scurry would be playing for Three Rivers. For the good or for the bad, right or wrong, things have changed dramatically over the last 10 years and player development options are accelerating at an even faster pace. It's a different world we all live in today. If a child/parent/family wants to play for the CC - great and best wishes. If a child/parent/family wants to puruse other options that may inlcude driving across town and writing a bunch more checks - great and best wishes. Who's to say what is right or wrong for another?
Shattuck has had great success on the boys side, but little tangible success on the girls side (last time I checked the State Cup recap). Personally, I do not think this is in anyway a reaction to Shattuck, but a natural progression in elite soccer development. Bangu has gone from a couple of good teams to winning 23 State Cup titles in the last three years. The next step is to improve their regional and national success. Not sure why anyone should really care because when they become a USSF Academy club they will not be eligible for these events anyway.
The soccer academy model works in Europe so it makes sense that it would work here. What we've been doing here in Minnesota hasn't worked so new ideas and new models make a lot of sense to me.
Let's give it a chance and give it a little time.
Seems to me that Bangu was well on their way already and additional help from the Thunder pros like Lagos and Magee certainly won't hurt.
Another thing that will be a plus is the entry into the USSF Academy program. Great exposure for the top kids in the state.
Neither will a little financial assistance from the Thunder ownership which should translate into more scholarships for elite level players.
What's wrong with that?
I don't understand how the current Wings players will benefit from this. In fact, the only thing this allows is for Bangu/Thunder to say it's not just Bangu/Thunder.
At the end of the day, this is just a way for Wings to exit the scene gracefully, and for a couple of their coaches to get new jobs.
Practically no players from any current Wings team will be able to crack the rosters of the 2 MTA teams, and will be looking for spots at PSA or Wayzata.
I don't mean that as a put down to those players, just an honest assessment based on the success of Wings teams the last two years.
anon 2:12,
Maybe you didn't realize it when you made your comments but the Academy model is working quite well for Bangu already.
Just look at the results they've had in the last few years at State Cup since Mark Abboud left Woodbury and Bangu implemented the academy concept about 4 years ago.
There have been several occasions the past few years where Bangu teams have met in the finals at State Cup.
They have the U13 State Cup champions at U13 for both boys and girls.
I reffed their U12 boys team last about 10 days ago and they are the best U12 team I've seen this year.
Now all they're doing with this merger is expanding the academy concept. This will be like their current academy on steroids.
This is a good thing for soccer in our state and will put us on a more competitive level with top programs around Region 2.
II have mixed feeling regarding the actions of the Thunder/Bangu/Wings.
I am interested to see the Thunder FINALLY be able to start developing some home grown players. I am hopeful that cc's can focus now on creating opportunities for all player and not be distracted by trying to creating super elite teams. Thus creating better community clubs focused on creating better opportunities for the majority of the players in their communities.
As many others here have expressed I am concerned and question some of the coaching selections? I only have personnel experience with two of the six. Of those two, one is a HORRIBLE trainer; I would not recommend he work with kids at all. (No my kid wasn't cut, the trainer is just plain bad, the trainer did not enjoy working with the players and the players knew it) the other coach will hopefully be in more of an administrative position as I think that where he excels, as a coach he’s had mediocre success. Two others I know of by reputation and both are superior coaches but both bring a ton of baggage. Therefore, does the baggage they bring have an over riding negative impact on the program?
This is an amazing opportunity for MN Soccer; we should be thankful as well as hopeful that there will be quality training and development available to MN players for under $40K a year.
Is Shattuck $40K a year???
Shattuck isn't $40k, but some Bangu teams charge close to that. Sorry, had to do it. :)
Am I missing it?
The philosophy here seems to be "bigger is better" "throw money at it" "consolidate power".
I'm not a big believer in monopolies of any kind so I’m admittedly suspicious-unimpressed off the bat.
Mergers are often very fruitful for those at the top but less so for those at the bottom.
I guess that’s the real question, who’s going to end up at the bottom of this new pyramid?
socmom,
I think the concept is to leverage resources which helps you get more for your money. Not sure what you mean by "throw money at it"
2:07...er, Mark, here's part of the problem.
You wrote, "For the good or for the bad, right or wrong, things have changed dramatically over the last 10 years and player development options are accelerating at an even faster pace. It's a different world we all live in today. If a child/parent/family wants to play for the CC - great and best wishes. If a child/parent/family wants to puruse other options that may inlcude driving across town and writing a bunch more checks - great and best wishes. Who's to say what is right or wrong for another?"
Well written, I must say. Good use of the third person to create the impression that things just "are." However, a large contingent of people read your words thusly: "For my own benefit, I have helped change things dramatically over the last 10 years and and have helped accelerate player development options at an even faster pace. It's a different world we all live in today. If a child isn't very good and wants to play for the CC - great, we don't want them. If a child is really good, they should play for me and my club, because no one can develop a kid as well as I can, so parents need to pay me lots of money and I'll look good. I'm right and you're wrong."
You'll continue to attract people seeking that kind of experience for their kid, and the revolving door will continue to spin out good players that the rest of us CCs will happy accept. Frankly, I expect more players will spin out of that door, which will benefit the rest of us even more. The xBNGs that have joined our CC are thrilled to be with us.
MYSA has about 80,000 registered players this year.
The Thunder statement indicates they'll have about 1,400 players next year. That's less than 2% of the registered players.
Where's the monopoly?
It's 1,400 kids whose parents will be subsidizing the higher levels of Thwingu. They cannot keep giving away free passes without collecting real revenue somewhere.
Let me get this straight...Bangu players pay a fortune to play on the top teams but need 1,400 players to subsidize them???
Seems to me that doesn't make sense.
You can't have it both ways, Bubba.
3:16, you think that Mark (Cook or Abboud, I don't know who you are talking about) is the only one who feels the way he does. That's just like me calling you a single idiot when there are many more out there that I'd call the same.
His vision is not unique. Give some credit to us parents who make a choice to pursue what we pursue. Moreover, I do not believe Bangu would continue to retain the players they do if something was wrong with the model.
MTA Elite is for the few who show ability and interest. Your CC is for everyone as it should be.
http://www.burnley.vitalfootball.co.uk/article.asp?a=112324
1:56 - are you kidding? SSM only enters two teams into state cup... and only one won it anyway. The real Minnesota Soccer Powerhouse?????
wait for it... wait for it... WHAT???
Shattuck is good for the select few who get (can afford) it - discounting the many many many many... many girls players who it wasn't good for an left, oh and the coaches on the girls side who left (one last year, two out of four this year). This to will be good for a different selection of players. NOTHING is good for everyone. Thank god for that or there would be no competition at all.
anon 3:45, you just summed up the entire problem with youth sports.
"Give some credit to us parents who make a choice to pursue what we pursue."
I don't have any problem with the concept or the model, but it's about the kids participating and what they want to pursue. It has nothing to do with the parents other than their checkbooks, love and support aside. This will work for the kids that want to excel, and I hope that they keep the lower level teams as well so that those kids get the advantage of the coaching talent that exists between the 3 entities as well.
anon 3:45,
That is exactly what the intent is according to my contact at the Wings club. And from what I hear that was also a concern that the Bangu side had too.
They want a place for their players to play and train even if they don't have the ability to be on the elite teams.
Seems like a good fit for all and that the powers that be took much into consideration when putting together this new club.
3:50
Thats an interesting link to an article about the Thunder Academy already on website of a pro club in the UK.
Thanks for posting!
3:35, I'm talking about the Thunder and Lightning. THEY will be the ones subsidized in part by the 1,400. Bubba
3:35/Bubba
The Thunder is a separate for profit corporation. The Wings-Bangu/MTA merger will be a 501c3 corporation.
The only "subsidizing" that will occur is when the players from the teams drag their parents to the Thunder games and buy tickets. Little Mia and Landon will already have their free passes.
PS - You're not Bill Clinton are you?
I agree with anon 356, From what I understand Bangu had no place for the players once they reached age 13 if they didn't make the top two teams unless they made exceptions. Now under the Minnesota Thunder Academy two Elite teams will be formed at 13 and up and the players that don't make those teams and want to stay with the club and take advantage of the coaching talent will be able to play in the regional academies. Unless I'm missing something it looks like a win win for all the players in both clubs as well as any other players that want to get involved in the future.
What happens when and if the Thunder get sold (and move away) to the highest bidder?
3:16....I wrote the post that you are referencing and trust me I am not named Mark. Both MA & MC have posted on these sites before and always use a moniker. Feel free to direct any comments that you might have directly to them, but please do not imply that my thoughts, comments, or postings are theirs - as they are not.
IMO it's pretty simple, if you like the program and direction - then join. If you don't - then don't.
SSM Tutition $34,500 for 2007-08
That doesn't include the cost of their soccer program, which I heard was an additional $7,000. I don't know $40K maybe be a closer guess that everyone thought.
Ah, 3:45, I have visions of which parent you are standing on the sideline, strutting around, having chosen (for your child) to pursue what you want (your child) to pursue. It must feel great.
As I said, my little CC is happy to take the players that the BNG model (which obviously works) throws off each year. We'll work hard and train hard, and maybe (just maybe) my little CC -- you know, the one "for everyone, as it should be" rather than "for the few who show ability and interest" -- might compete with Thuwingu, like we did as we took out your U16Bs and U14Bs in the State Cup semis last month.
I hope your kid is in the top 18 next year. If not, we'll be happy to work with him or her...if you're willing to pursue that.
In which league(s) will the U14+ teams be playing?
I'm assuming they have no interest in playing MYSA.
And, as "new" teams, will they face restrictions of any kind ?
4:22,
And I'm sure the players from your little CC who moved to the Bangu teams heading to Rockford later this month are quite happy too!
That's what is so great about youth soccer. There's a team for everyone depending on their ability, interest and desire.
422 fortunately there are parents from the PSA 19 girls that could say the same thing about your U19 girls super team but they don't. we need more parents like them and less like you.
If you love your CC - then great, I do not think anyone holds anything against you.
If you think the merger will benefit your CC - then great, I do not think anyone holds anything against you.
It sounds like you should be cheering the merger on, not slinging arrows.
We need a place for the very best players. As a parent of one of them, I had issue with four teams over three years, and finally found a home with Bangu. Bangu is simply better in every way. Look at State Cup. Bangu Bangu Bangu Bangu Bangu. WIth this better option, the coach won't have to hide behind trees any more begging star player Kareem to come back. Now he can go to him and say Hey, we have a better place to play than Black Hawks. That's how it should be. Let Bangu go, and your bad teams can win some games then.
Once Thunder Academy gets the USSF designation top players will flock there hoping to get on one of these elite boys teams.
I don't know if the merger will have as large an effect on the girls teams but then again it seems they'll have the top teams in every age group next year anyway except for next years U17s.
That will soon be the case with the boys teams too.
Cripes, people. This is youth soccer, and not very good youth soccer when compared to other places. As someone wrote far up the blog, there may be one player in this state who will go on to great things. It ain't my kid, and it probably ain't yours either. I'm interested in seeing how this works. It could soar or it could flop. Regardless, it certainly won't be boring. Stay tuned.
4:49, you're right, BNG already owns the girls, thanks to MA, so I don't see where the upside is for them there. They're a few steps away from owning the boys too, so maybe WNG will provide a player or two to put them over the top. I wonder what the MYSA and the CCs will do when State Cup is ALL Thundwangu.
I guess I'd just like to say that this merger wouldn't have happened without Manny Sanchez. It's a shame he won't be around to be involved but hats off to him for his efforts to keep merger talks going even after he knew he was out the door.
What's the process for getting the USSF designation? What is it anyway?
4:29, as soon as our players start showing ability, interest and desire, we'll send them your way. Thanks for the heads up.
If you haven't been paying attention lately 501c3 have come under intense scrutiny when they charge for their services. Especially when the same or similar services are available for less.
They will not be a 501c3 for long. Even if they really, really, really intended to be for more than 1 year. Which I doubt.
As a 501c3 they will have to disclose financial (including compensation strucutre), which will probably be kept relatively low until they turn into a for profit organization.
The resulting for profit organization that will spin up shortly will be fighting lawsuits from people who are pursuing a piece of the asset they helped build. This will mean attorney fees that will cause the player fees to go up and the shine to get knocked down a few notches.
Cheers to Manny! He will be missed.
I've heard about clubs out east getting audited by the IRS for how they operate. Once club had to pay hundreds of thousands in back taxes when it was ruled that they were not in fact non-profit. I think they were paying their refs and trainers in cash too, and never 1099'd anyone. Hope this new group has its act together.
The way some people are reacting to this new deal, I can see someone making "anonymous" calls to the IRS!
Two words -- David Villa. Spain will win Euro 2008.
Two words, Cristiano Ronaldo. Portugal, my friend.
What happened to England?
5:03, there are alot of people to thank for what is the most important day in Minnesota soccer since Ron Futcher, Geoff Bernett, Ade Coker, Ace Ntsoelengoe, Alan Willey, Alan Merrick and the Minnesota Kicks came to town in 1976.
Now THAT was futbol! Did you know the Kicks won their conference the first four years they existed? They never finished lower than second!
W.W.T.D. (What Would Tino Do?)
Terrific! Watch out, Chicago Magic!
Brianna, Did you work with Peter North yesterday?
This must be an exceptional vintage of Kool-Aid being passed around...lol
Hi, Jenna.
Yes, I did. What a mess ;0
Oops, wrong blog. Sorry.
5:03,
Are you this bitter and negative with your kids and family? You must be a real joy to live with.
People will make a decision if it's right for their kids.
If it is they'll vote with their wallet and/or with their feet.
The earlier post noted 1,400 players out of 80,000. Why are you so bent out of shape over this? It's less than 2% of MYSA players. What are you worried about?
My guess is it's something personal and you just can't let it go.
Wings players won't be able to crack the rosters of the Minnesota Thunder Academy teams?
Wow...
I know for a fact there our four players on the U17 Wings team that will make the Thunder Academy this year.
Umm, I didn't get that at all from Anon 5:03. It is well know that the IRS is cracking down on 501c3.
On the other hand I have had dealings with several parents lately that are extremely tired of paying an extra $200 to $500 in team fees to carry schlorship players.
As the economy gets tighter, parents and players are going to be demanding an accounting for their club and team fees.
Maybe they can get some of the Thunder players to demonstrate to the current coaches some of the following.....one touch pass, give and go, what full field vision is and how to anticipate.You don't see any of this in our kids games.To see this you have to watch the Euro League Playoffs. Wonder what the Thunder is going to do to upgrade the quality of coaching ? WE have no elite coaches just a couple of posers.
So we don't see any of this in the MLS either?
Gee...maybe we should import a few of the blokes from the other side of the pond.
Don't a few of the clubs have a few of the guys with foreign accents?
Wonder why their teams aren't doing 1 touch passes, give and goes etc?
With England not qualifying for Euro2008, maybe they will be looking to the Thunder and coaches with Yankee accents as a way to improve their fortunes! LOL
the MYSA should be the one organization that people scrutinize their financials - funny how they do not post them for members to see and no one seems to care.
I loved the KIcks and miss them dearly ...deep sigh!
This is a good first step in the proper direction for these 3 organizations
I'm pulling for Spain this time around. Villa and Torres what chemistry! what danger.
Swedes looked decent as well as the Croatians. Looked like Germany celebrated Octoberfest the night before
A poser is someone who refers to Euro 2008 as the Euro League Playoffs, or someone who refers to a wall pass as a give and go, and then who would not hesitate to judge the quality of professional players and coaches. This is precisely the problem with soccer in this state. The truly ignorant feel empowered to decide what is best for the development of the state's future professional players (especially when their own kids are involved), while the people who actually made the sacrifice and learned what it takes to be professional players and coaches are regarded as posers. Unbelievable.
Oh learned anon 6:34, let me bendeth over so I can kiss thee tush. Pffttttttt
That's precisely the problem. You have just kissed the tush of someone who would not pretend to have 1% of the knowledge of those who you call posers. Well done.
In my opinion, the merger is great for MN soccer. Again, an opportunity shows its head for the further developmenet/congregation of the highest levels of players.... and some in the State simply complain about it. Not everyone can gain something from their current level of play with their current team/club.
More options = better service to EVERY level of player.
I applaud Thunder/Bangu/Wings for getting this off the ground. It is my sincere wish that everything works out as planned and ti works out. I have no reason to doubt it will (nor should anyone else), given the accomplishments of Bangu over their relatively short lifespan thus far.
SSMSouthCampus
I'm Timmy. I'm 3. Every day I play with my toys in a sandbox. One day Bobby came over to play in my sandbox. He brought some toys. We played with our toys in my sandbox for a few days, and then Bobby decided he wanted to play in a sandbox with nicer sand. So he left one day. I'm sad because he took some of my toys when he left.
Timmy
Most kids prefer the nicer sand. They're not dummies.
Dear Timmy,
get over it. It happens. stop playing the victim, stop whining, and grow a pair a few years early.
Love & Bullets
tomASS
Julie Foudy prefers the modern day term "give and go". That tells you all you need to know about the old geezers on this blog.
Posh. They did not qualify.
Dear ol England looked like world beaters. They were 6-0 vs Andorra,Estonia and Israel. They outscored them a gazillion to zero.Anybody know where Andorra is?
Then the choking began. They lost to Russia and Croatia the last two games.
England playing classic possession soccer..Neville sent a slow rolling backpass to Robinson the GK. Robinson wound up with all his might and tried to deliver a mighty kick.....Yikes..Robinson whiffs and the ball rolls into the goal.Croatia wins.
England goes home.
Case closed!
Love
Becks
lol at the SCV parent ripping this.
First, you are hardly a "community" club from Stillwater. In fact, the teams you mention have benefitted greatly from players in surrounding communities - I know, you guys grew all those players lol not recruited them from other area clubs, huh?
the 14B team that you knocked out on pks smacked back pretty hard a couple weeks later, huh?
the 16B was a finals game, not semis, and you beat a team that had been decimated from past years by player movement, while you guys have done a good job consolidating players (read: recruiting from WBL and elsewhere) at the same time.
congrats to both those groups for sure they deserve it but you are a little disingenuous in trying to paint yourself as this little community club, thats just crazy
signed, your neighbor just west :~) xxxooo
Great move by the Thunder and Bangu and Wings.
Thanks to Manny Lagos and the new owners and also the visionaries at Bangu and Wings who set aside past differences and did what was best for soccer and the top level kids.
This will speed up the progress of improving level of play in Minnesota faster than Bangu was doing on their own.
Salut!
When you were naming top athletes you forgot some big ones. Tony Sanneh played every minute of the 2002 world cup at right back for the US. He won MLS titles and he played 5 seasons in the Bundesliga. An SPA grad and a Blackhawk National Champion. Local product for sure. Manny Lagos a bunch of MLS seasons winning multiple MLS titles, played in the 92 Olympic Games in Barcelona, and was on the Blackhawk National Championship team. Tom Presthus from Edina HS played a bunch of MLS seasons and played for Bangu as a youth players.
It's great that Manny Lagos is getting involved in the youth development in Minnesota through the Thunder's new relationship with Bangu and Wings.
We need people with experience at the top levels of soccer to help improve the overall level of youth soccer soccer in Minnesota.
It's too bad an alliance like this took so long to put together. It would have been even better if this happened 5-10 years ago.
But as they say "better late than never".
Blah blah blah. Idea du jour. Look down the road 10 years. Thunder is defunct or, worse, still irrelevant. Blaine has become the National Lacrosse/Rugby Center, with soccer played on only fields Z-1 to Z-25 (north of Hinckley). Our kids are all in college, with 2 of the MYSA's current thousands playing at a meaningful level (yes, one of them is yours). And a whole new group of parents/coaches/experts are devising the next big deal to cater to this state's "elite" players. Some things will never change.
11:34 - go suck on another lemon when you get a chance.
jan,
So you're the expert...should we leave it to Valley United, Circle Pines and Mankato to bring our youth players development up to speed here in Minnesota?
Or do you think there's a chance the likes of Buzz Lagos, Manny Lagoes, Amos magee and Mark Abboud might be better suited for that task?
I would not battle with koller in the air. he will win every time
keep the battle with him on the ground and speak in slow and child like sentences.
Jan has more hair between the eyes than he does on top of his head! ;-) ignore him he is now so inconsistent his game and opinions do not matter.
jan - would you like a Turkey drumstick to chew on? 3 goals in 14 minutes now that is some type of dressing served with your Turkey
Sorry tomass, they already czeched out....
I like it! nicely done, I didn't want to go there but I'm glad someone did
The MRL's first division playoffs were last weekend in Indy (to determine who moves up to MRL premier next year). Congrats to BNG U14 boys, SCV U16 boys and WDB U17 girls for earning promotions to MRL premier. MA's girls got clobbered.
I'll put my money on VLY U and MNK, thank you. But what do I know...I can't even see the @#$%ing ball.
PC
MA's girls got clobbered? He must not be a very good coach.
MA has good teams because he's a charismatic salesman. He, like others in his club (Cook, Singer, Storlien), has no idea how to teach the game of soccer. Just proves the point that not all pro soccer players are pro coaches.
9:44 - and your evaluations of his coaching expertise are based on......? In reading your comments you must be someone learned in soccer coaching, so please educate us in who are solid MN soccer coaches.
I hate Bangu, therefore all their coaches are bad......you've got to love the thought process on some of the bloggers. I have no idea if they are good coaches or bad, but you've got to just chuckle.
Tearing down coaches is easy, but the comments have no foundation. Ask the players how happy they are with their soccer education and experience and you will get the best picture. Ask college coaches about the development of players and who is the most prepared, that will give you the other side of it.
Funny how all the coaches the hate monger mentioned are Bangu coaches.
It must eat this guy up every time he loses to a Bangu team.
Not a good way to go through life harboring all that anger and jealousy.
This fool must really be bent out of shape given the Thunder-Wings-Bangu announcement and needs to vent.
He's too much the girly-man to ever say that to any of their faces.
Soccer success comes from gathering all the best players (fairly easy) and making them better (fairly hard). Bangu rocks at the former...I'm not so sure about the latter.
I wonder if their U25s need a keeper
P.C.
Back in 2002 and 2003 when the Tsunami Sota girls were National Finalists 2 consecutive years did Storlien make that team better? Or would they have won the National Championship without him?
Just wondering if some of you "behind the keyboard coaches" and experts think you could take a team that far?
The stars often align and great things happen (think about it...we play a game that is frequently decided by PKs).
You're building it, and people will certainly come. We'll all be watching to see what you're able to do with it.
PC
Petr, why you play so bad yesterday?
JK
Jan, I told you. I couldn't see the ball. Dang headgear gets in the way.
PC
I think you hand positioning was sloppy and you took your eyes off the ball because you heard footsteps.
JK - how was the bench the second game?
For those who want to bash MA's team, they went to MRL playoffs without a goalkeeper(out with a concussion) All but one goal would have been saved by a real keeper, not the three field players who rotated in goal. 1-0, 4-2 and 1-1 is not getting clobbered, and they were the better team in each game. Bad luck for them and hopefully their keeper will be healthy for regionals or they could be in for a long weekend.
C'mon...anybody could have coached the Tsunami Sota to the championship. They were one of the greatest collection of players in the states history. Any way ,that's ancient history.
3:10: I'm not sure ANYBODY but you make a good point.
I'm reminded of pro basketball coach Pat Riley's response to the question...
"What's been the secret to your success with the Lakers"?
He replied "Kareem,Kareem,Kareem"...
That's ancient history too ...
As a parent of a player on one of the teams the Bangus played last weekend (visiting this site to learn about our regional opponents next weekend), I can tell you that their sick keeper excuse for not winning is a weak one. Not sure who MA is, but both the Bangus teams were inferior to the MRL competition. The powder-blue uniforms were cute, though.
3:10
So was the Jefferson HS Boys State Championship team in 2004 also a collection of the greatest talent ever assembled in Minnesota too???
Or was that championship just dumb luck?
Amazing how top level teams just fall into this guy's lap whether it's club, high school or now with the Lightning...isn't it?
He must be the luckiest coach in the state of Minnesota.
4:08 If you are a visiting parent then I'm Ben Franklin.
Why, Ben, aren't we defensive? My daughter plays for the Internationals U14s (from Ohio), and my son's U15 team will be playing at Regionals (though Sportscore in Rockford is supposedly flooded). My daughter's team beat one of the Bangus teams Saturday morning, a weak Wisconsin team Saturday afternoon and another Bangus team Sunday morning. The second Bangus team was stronger.
This thread is hilarious, though. I get the impression maybe four people are doing all the posting. Go back to work...no one who matters is reading.
SO what do you know about Edina U15B?
Hey 4:26, is your child (or you-since sometimes its the kids on this) on the same Internationals team that lost to Bangu last year at Regionals?
it is sad that adults choose to personally rip players by name (or by description that makes it easy for most to identify said player.)
grow up folks, it is youth soccer. find some other way to boost your self esteem than on the backs of kids. That you think they deserve it does not make it OK.
I coach a high level team in Mn and find it in very poor taste that people mention players by name in a negative way,you really must be a sad person
4:49, yes, Bangu did beat my son's team last year, though I'm not sure what your point is. Too bad we won't be able to re-match at regionals this year.
!
6:00 - I was referencing the girls game.
I'm a player. I've not heard if i've made the final cut for ODP. I'm a bit pissed off about it, as those out of state SSM kids made it to only 2 made 3 try out dates. It hard to beat a kid out if he not there. Do any of you coaches think for two seconds why they can't make or don't go out for their own odp team. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THERE!!! They don't show up. I've always thought I could put up with alot of crap, but I think i've finally had my fill.
Before some of you parents say i need to work harder. why should i, so i can try and beat out a kid who isn't there? i can work, play, practice as much as possible unless they show up, i won't be able to beat them.
"The powder-blue uniforms were cute, though."
Nice comment - degrading to girls soccer don't you think. Women's sports will never attain the same level as men's sports as long as this sort of comments are made. I sincely hope you are not from Minnesota.
4:26 - i guess you don't matter - and... don't respond to this cause well then you of course would be defensive.
Ben
I kinda like the powder blue uniforms.
8:34-- Have your Club Coach contact your age groups ODP coach and ask for a copy of your evaluation forms from tryouts. Each player had one completed. Use the weaknesses outlined on your evaluation form to work on the things that you need to get better on to make the team next year.
ODP is full of "issues" like you describe. You either have thick skin and keep on trying....or you give up. Depends on what kind of person you are. I won't bore you with the "issues" my child has gone through....but let's just say that she is no longer a part of the ODP program. That being said, it IS a good system and IS worthwhile. Don't give up on it.
SSMSouthCampus
anom 10 27,he didnt say he didnt make the team,he said he'd like to know
One can assume he didn't.
why?he didnt say that
The Tsunami Sota 02-03 team was one of the best from MN. Not one of them made it to the National Team. They were not good enough. Yet they were the only team to go to back to back finals out of all the teams at Nationals in 02 and 03 in every age group and both genders. I think if you asked the players they would say the coach did a great job, I know the coach well and I promise you this he would say that they won because he had great players. Its so hard to make it that far. Watch what happens in Rockford, MN will be lucky to get to one Regional Final. This coach you are hammering on took 4 teams to the Regional finals in 5 years. Let me know the next time someone does that.
yeah and the one year Storlien's team did not make it to the finals they lost in the semis, not a bad 01-05 run for his teams. The sockers and eclipse combine because the Sota team knocked each of them out the previous two years.
Didn't the US Women's National Team wear powder blue while winning World Cup Championship and Olympic gold medals?
SSM South Campus
I also read that he's unsure. No, information so far is out. Which is quite a bit later than in the past. Opportunities are limited for these players, and the longer ODP sits the more opportunities pass some of these players up.
However, the main point was, how does a player beat out a kid who only shows up to 3 of the 10 or so trainings?
To add to that the rummor right now is, Coach CC told his boys they just needed to make an appearance. That he has already sold them to the regional coaches and the regional coaches want to see them. Please note, this is what the players are saying and could easy be incorrect. But the actions of SSM out state players seem to support the rummor. They obviously don't feel they need to show up and prove themselves.
I would like to credit for this analogy but it came from someone else (who heard it second hand) regarding the new thunder/wings/bangu club. the analogy was to call it the mall of america of MN youth soccer. i have to say after thinking about it, it is a good analogy. i have lived in MN my whole life and when the big MOA came along it was the greatest thing. everyone was excited because it was the biggest and best of its time, had something for everyone, brought in interest and put MN shopping on the map. of course, for the individual store, there wasn't much differentiation or exclusivity but they got just sales because they were there. the mall grew in popularity and then peaked. however, over time the locals didn't want to fight the traffic and the local stores/malls got stronger and more competitive to where today most people go to MOA occasionally but not routine. plus shoppers want more personalized service and don't have the extra time to walk past 20 stores to get to the one thing they want that is right around the corner. it is still attractive to the out of town visitor but the in town folks see it more as ho-hum than a state treasure. again, if I can get what i want at Eden Prairie center, i ain't driving to Bloomington (or Blaine as the case may be).
so the new mall of america of soccer (Thunder/Bangu/Wings) will probably go along much like any new business with early success and headlines. they will still probably have a great holiday season (state cup), and be an attraction to out of state people. they will put some local clubs out of business (ie Wings). but over time, other states have built bigger malls and if the local clubs do their job, MOA will either adjust or lose recruits to cc's that step up and become more desirable and convenient to the local quality kids
the net is, this is another good move to raise the level of soccer in mn that will continue to raise visibility and force improvement at the local level. alone it doesn't change the landscape of MN soccer but if it brings more attention, so be it!
what time is it? MOA time!
I think what we've all seen over the last few years is all the CC's stepping it up to compete with the soccer only clubs. Good for them for upgrading their offerings, bad for them as they had to have someone force them to do it.
If the MOA was the catalyst to push the other malls into making themselves better and your analogy is accurate, then the new Thunder Academy sounds like a huge win-win for everyone. Shoppers (parents) vote with their pocketbooks so only time will tell.
People need to stop bashing the MA and DS fraternity of coaches. They, and the others being bashed, have spent much of their lives contributing to MN football as good players, good coaches, and positive role models to many. Remember, no coach is ever liked by everyone.
There isn't a better group of "young" football minds in this state who have grown in this state and dedicated themselves to MN football to make an attempt at building MN football with "progressive" ideas. It would be difficult to find a better group of football people in the Midwest Region than ML, AM, MA, DS, MC, ES, GH, etc. I may not like every coach in that fraternity, but I would love to play within it.
Part of the reason Storlien has had talent at a lot of his teams is because a) he recognizes talent (he selects most of his players) and b) talent wants to play for him. Many of the girls on the Lightning play for the Lightning because they want to play for Storlien.
When was the last time Jefferson Boys had multiple players get playing time in college? For the most part, he turned rag-tag bunches into respectable football teams at Jefferson in a matter of two months. Find someone around who is better than him at doing that.
There it is again, the F word, FRATERNITY. Let's call it what it is, the good ole boy network. I for one would love to see a tiny bit of DIVERSITY in MN coaching.
I suppose the sorority could use more than the Gophers' head coach, JE, and three MIAC head coaches, amongst a few others not mentioned.
This lack of diversity in US coaching shouldn't stop this MN fraternity from being dedicated and committed to building MN football on both the sides of the gender card, right? Thwingu isn't strictly a football club for boys, correct?
I would not be inclined to take credit for the MOA analogy either. It is a rather stupid one.
Yeah, the MOA has great stores.
Thwingu -- er, Bangu -- already owns the girls' side of the gender card, so I can't imagine there will be many opportunities for non-Bangu girls to find a spot in this new "club." I expect to see a LOT of movement on the boys' side, as there's much more parity currently with the boys. Not for long, though (he, he). I hope we start handing out the "We think you're good enough for Thwingu" buttons again.
We want you back, man.
Congrats to BNG U14B for earning a spot in MRL premier next summer. I can only imagine the interest in THOSE tryouts this fall!
I'll be there!
18, when are the tryouts?
great, now someone is pretending to be a U16 player, and another pretending to be a coach. classy group this is, i'm out
Hey, it's always 5:00pm somewhere with a few of these yo-yo's.
I am a bit confused about the wording in the ODP post. He talks about kids making 2 of 3 tryouts. Tryouts? That was held some time ago, and the State teams were announced on the MYSA website. If he is talking about training, and making the final cut to Regional Camp....that is different. If you read my post, it talks from a perspective that he is talking about tryouts.
The same principles apply though if you don't make the cut for Regional Camp, don't they? Let me give you some KNOWN examples from my home State that are meant only to demonstrate that what you may be experiencing isn't a Minnesota only problem.
Example 1) Girl doesn't show up to ODP tryouts AT ALL. Doesn't pay the fee to tryout, and just flat out doesn't show up. No valid reason, just doesn't show up. (TWO YEARS IN A ROW!!) Girl's name appears on the roster both years for the State team.
Example 2) Girl shows up at tryouts, but isn't selected for whatever reason. State ODP team trains hard all year to try and make the cut for Regional Camp (things are a bit different here, and try-outs take place three weeks after Regional Camp. 24 are selected, the 24 train all winter and cuts are made to 20 in June, then final cut made to 18 two weeks prior to Regional Camp). Player who wasn't selected was identified through other means, and joins the team in June for ONE session. The next week, the team is cut from (now) 25 to 20. Player makes the cut, and 5 others who have trained all year are cut. Player makes final cut and becomes a starter for the State ODP team at Regional Camp. Three weeks later, tryouts happen again. Player goes from starting 11 to not making the top 25 and does not make the team. What changed? The child decided to attend a boarding school in another State....black balled by resident State.
MORAL OF THE EXAMPLES:
1) Kids all over are given "free passes" for lots of reasons. Many times it has to do with the fact that the coaches know the players in question and can make assumptions based upon a known entity. Not sure if it is right or not....just that it is common.
2) Not that any of you will really care, unless it happened to your kid...but some of these SSM kids ARE good enough to make thier parents' home State ODP program (and have been involved in them). Once they make the decision to make the move to SSM, they are then cut by thier previous State-- I have seen this not take place if the kid is either a Regional or National Pool player. Those cut are then out in the cold, unless they can make the MN team. The goal of the ODP system is to identify the best kids eligible to try out in a State. SSM kids are in an unusual situation where they are eligible to try out in one of two States (the one thier parents live in, and the one they attend boaring school in). Is it right that MN kids may be cut for an "out of State SSM player"? I dunno. But, it isn't right how some of these players are treated in thier previous State ODP programs either....but I realize that it isn't the problem of those in MN.
Tough situation both ways. I can tell you that from my perspective my family isn't out to "hurt" anyone in MN, but just looking out for the best interest of our player.
Everyone should be on equal ground and be able to honestly compete for positions regardless of the politics of us adults. What ODP is tasked with is finding the best players-- not the best players who fit a certain political mold.
Sorry for the book, just wanted to give another perspective.
SSMSouthCampus
Can we all agree... For the most part, ODP selections are made BEFORE kids show up to "tryouts" .I would say the same holds true for picking the roster that heads to Regional Camp etc. Yes, one unknown may slip into the bunch, but in general, the coaches already know who they like. And, for the record, mine were a couple of the lucky ones....
Regarding Thingu...
One of my kids (playing D1 soccer) calls to ask if it’s true and what does Mom think.
Soc-Mom isn’t so optimistic but what’s the young adult read.
I was told that this just may be the thing MN needs.
What?????
Yes, MN needs one club that all the good players want to play for.
Pardon me, what about Bangu?
No, not so much really, especially the guys.
Hmm….
The one in question played premier,mwl,odp and for both teams coming under the Thunder banner.
Maybe Mom’s wrong...
Time will tell.
ODP selections are out! Wow, there are some surprises...
SSMSC, I know your story, however, ODP is always a revolving door. I believe that ODP is a state wide pool. They can add and drop players at will. The same holds true for the Regional ODP and Natl teams. The teams are ALWAYS changing. So, if the Regional and Natl teams are doing this, why cant State ODP?
Yea, at first I didnt agree with players being added after tryouts
($20 tryout fee wasnt paid), players being added after many ODP sessions. But hey, its about getting the best players in camp. Just look at this yrs 91 team that will be going to DeKalb, the General Managers kid who QUIT is now back on the team. Is that right?? mmmmmmmmmmm? This kid is too busy during the winter months doing her what ever she is doing, but now that DeKalb is gearing up, guess what, she appears again. Is she a top talent? Maybe a top 15, but the lack of dedication should be questioned??
#10's Dad
I know that this doesnt need to be on this thread, but its the only one moving right now.
What does everyone think about the Region IV tournament that is going on right now out in HI, Region IV has Quarter Finals, then Semis, then the final. Region II goes from Bracket winner to Semis, the top 4 teams. So how can Region IV get away with this when all teams will be going to the same Nationals?? Governered by the same rules. There is a Slammer team that advanced to the Quarters, but if it was the same format at Region II, you have to win your bracket, then they would of NOT advanced. You just watch, the Slammers will win it.
#10's Dad
#10-I'm not seeing the same Region IV scenario you speak of. I see prelims on Mon,Tue,Wed and Q,SF,F on Fri,Sat,Sun. (I'm looking @ U17G)
10:43 - is there a published list or is just the players confirming amongst themselves who made it?
For ODP selections, it's very easy to select the top 5-10 players. It's also easy to select the bottom 5-10 players. In between there, it gets gray. Different coaches will look for different things. Some will look for size, or positional players, or dedication, or passion, or skill, parental support, or athleticism, or future potential, or brown-nosers, or previous camp experience, or the new kid on the block, etc. You never know.
So the best way to secure your place on the camp team is to work harder, play more, and get yourself in the top 5-10 players. If you're surprised you didn't make the camp roster and thought you were in the top 10, you probably aren't in the top 10.
Bottom line, don't get your undies in a bunch. It's only one year and one camp. If you truly like playing the game, you'll work your hiney off on your own in the next 6 months and make the team next year. Those who are discouraged and give up on the system don't deserve to be on the camp team anyway.
10:43-Where are the ODP results posted? Did players receive notice by mail? I didnt see it on the MYSA website or maybe I wasn't looking in the right area. Who made the U16 Boys? Thanks.
Regarding the R4 tournament...Check the U18G's out, Slammers ended bracket play with 6points,going 2 wins and 1 loss. Washington State has 7 points, going 2 wins and 1 draw. Both teams advance to the Qtrs. If this was any team in Region 2, and they didnt win bracket, they would be done.
1:12, they aren't. Yet. I have not seen the list either, but have heard first-hand that there is a lot of changes in the 16's. Life goes on.
The accepted players for the State team from tryouts was posted as a news item on the front page of MYSA's website. I just went and looked and it is no longer there.
SSMSouthCampus
ssm - that was for the original pool. the final teams were narrowed down to 18 and emails went out to all the kids who made it as well as the alternates. i've already heard of a few shockers that truly make you question the decision making process. i'm not a coach, but even i can identify who's got it and who doesn't. maradona hits it right on the head with his 11+ reasons why some kids are selected over others (maybe they pull names out of a hat?).
Or off of club registration forms, personal checks, or other like instruments?
I think you are all incorrect. The ODP coaches just look for the girls wearing the powder blue socks, and select them. I don't think they even need to show up at the sessions, they just come to part of one session and show a blue sock or something similar. I think it is a secret code.
I hope you detect my sarcasm.
The irony, of course, is that the kids are told by the coaches that "there are no politics in ODP."
Yeah. Right.
There isnt politics in ODP, just the ones that were cut think there is.
SSM-South Campus
Doesn't SSM play US Club Soccer? Does US Club Soccer identify and send kids to ODP? If so why isn't SSM sending their players thru US Club Soccer were I don't believe the team is picked by a try out selection, but by having Regional Coaches watch them play in tournaments and games?
I know who some of the SSM boys from outstate are, they did not make the regional pool last year, and they were the kids that only showed up twice. If a player has made the Regional team I would expect them to make the MN State Select team as they talent has already been previously identified. The fact that these boys just happen to be from CC SSM U16 boys team, doesn't really surprise anyone as this is something he has done in the past. I would hazard to guess the rumors surround those selection is true, and that is a significant problem for both SSM and ODP.
Having seen them play at SSM and at ODP, I would certainly not place them in the top 5-10. The Bangu/CDA/WNG players are significantly better then they are.
The Bangu/CDA/WNG players are significantly better than the Shattuck players?
If that was true, wouldn't Bangu/CDA/WNG beat Shattuck?
This is coming from a Bangu dad too.
Sometimes you just have to recognize a good program and respect it.
Maybe I am missing something here...but US Club identifying/sending kids to a USYS program? The younger SSM teams are strictly US Club Soccer and don't even have US Youth Soccer player cards. As far as I know, you can't be on a USYS ODP team without a USYS player card.
SSMSouthCampus
Bangu dad -
I think at least two or three of the out state SSM boys play on the U16 team. U17 Bangu, U17 EDP & U17 CDA all beat them. I think the U17WNG was the only team in 17’s to lose to them. SSM U17 tied Bangu & EDP, CDA did not play them for some unknown reason (I do not think they were invited). SSM has a good program, but I would say that their record against these teams does not indicate they are so much better that all they have to do is put in an appearance.
SSM South Campus
They do not call it ODP they call it ID2. Here is the link.
http://www.usclubsoccer.org/main.aspx?sec_id=20&guid=3c1422e1-d5ce-45c5-98d2-b02731598798
I believe Ryan McCarthy & Dula Fadis (probably spelled both their names wrong, my apologies) from this year U17 Bangu team were invited to the camp. Poses an interest question thou if the younger teams only play US Club, why are they not participating in ID2 instead of ODP? I do not know a lot about the program but on face value, it seems like it would be easier for the SSM parents and players to participate in ID2 than in ODP.
If anyone has any additional information on ID2 it would be interesting to hear about it.
I think those that are new (the last 4-5 years) to MYSA soccer should take a few deep breaths. In the late 90's Blackhawks were winning 4-8 state cup titles each year and they were the best. St. Croix Valley had 2-3 years after where Kate, Tim and Jeff had perennial state up champions and the boys side won 2-3 each year also. Now Bangu has one a few for the last 3-4 years and that is awesome. The merger will be great for many of the kids, teams and coaches. Teams will will be stronger and a few players will improve. I have one question.
IS IT BETTER FOR ALL OF MINNESOTA SOCCER TO PULL KIDS AT 9 AND PUT THE BEST TOGETHER?
For years I have seen young players learn from eachother. The best players show the next level that moves and skill can be performed during a game. Others try to recreate it and the level improves.
for years many of the better soccer clubs had even teams at U10, U11 and even U12 to develop all of the players in the age group, and it worked. Now are less kids going to be shown what it takes to be good and see what great players at their age can do.
Re: 11:35's request to name serious pro athletes from Minnesota, ummm...these are off the top of my head.
BASEBALL: Glen Perkins, Joe Mauer, Kent Hrbek, Paul Molitor, Jack Morris, Dave Winfield, Terry Steinbach, Greg Olson.
FOOTBALL: Marian Barber, Thomas Tapeh, Chris Weinke.
HOCKEY: Phil Housley, Herb Brooks 2/3 of the 1980 Miracle on Ice team, Neal/Aaron Broten, tons more.
BASKETBALL: Kris Humphries, Joel Pryzbilla, Kevin McHale, Lindsey Whalen.
GOLF: Tim Lehman, Tim Herron, Patty Berg.
SKIING: Cindy Nelson, Kristina Koznik, Lindsey Vonn.
SOCCER: Brianna Scurry.
Seems most, if not all of them, developed their professional talents while stuck in community clubs when they were kids. I bet they were less stressed and had more fun too.
Scurry played for a club called Sota when she left her community. You might now recognize that club SOTA as the now called club Bangu.
So far the boys are stinkin the place out at regions.It's time to move coaches like MA,DS etc over to the boys side as they are in great need of development.
huh?
How do you figure they are stinking up the place? The biggest blow out I think was the U13 Bangu team. I'm still trying to figure out why they even have Regionals for the U13's. Most of the time one young stud will control the field.
Be honest your just trying to get rid of MA & DS. :)
so far the 14s and 16s havnt stunk it up,the 17s drew also?
DS wont coach a team unless the best players,developed elsewhere,come together as an allstar team.That plan failed last year,so much for development eh?
Anonymous said...
SSM South Campus
They do not call it ODP they call it ID2. Here is the link.
http://www.usclubsoccer.org/main.aspx?sec_id=20&guid=3c1422e1-d5ce-45c5-98d2-b02731598798
I believe Ryan McCarthy & Dula Fadis (probably spelled both their names wrong, my apologies) from this year U17 Bangu team were invited to the camp. Poses an interest question thou if the younger teams only play US Club, why are they not participating in ID2 instead of ODP? I do not know a lot about the program but on face value, it seems like it would be easier for the SSM parents and players to participate in ID2 than in ODP.
If anyone has any additional information on ID2 it would be interesting to hear about it.
21/6/08 4:38 PM
Anonymous said...
I think those that are new (the last 4-5 years) to MYSA soccer should take a few deep breaths. In the late 90's Blackhawks were winning 4-8 state cup titles each year and they were the best. St. Croix Valley had 2-3 years after where Kate, Tim and Jeff had perennial state up champions and the boys side won 2-3 each year also. Now Bangu has one a few for the last 3-4 years and that is awesome. The merger will be great for many of the kids, teams and coaches. Teams will will be stronger and a few players will improve. I have one question.
IS IT BETTER FOR ALL OF MINNESOTA SOCCER TO PULL KIDS AT 9 AND PUT THE BEST TOGETHER?
For years I have seen young players learn from eachother. The best players show the next level that moves and skill can be performed during a game. Others try to recreate it and the level improves.
for years many of the better soccer clubs had even teams at U10, U11 and even U12 to develop all of the players in the age group, and it worked. Now are less kids going to be shown what it takes to be good and see what great players at their age can do.
to be honest people don't leave to play with the best. They just want more for there kids than some dad yelling at there kid while practicing something they love more than 2 months a year.
My daughter left one of the best teams in the state in her age group to join a weaker team that has a better perspective on soccer.
Most leave to gain something more than a better team.
Since this thread was about the Thunder and their supposed resurgence, it looks like they are returning to form (1-1-3 this month and 4-4-4 this year, for a (yawn) middle of the table spot just above the high-school varsity level boys from Miami FC (yes, the team that offered the Thunder three hilarious goals in one half last month). Anybody else wonder where all of the supposed new zest has dribbled off to?
I think we should close all travelling basketball teams and put one MN basketball team. I think we should dissolve all iron range hoickey and make one strong team... crazy ideas from another person who has no clue about sports. who cares for my little johnny to be playing with the so call best at U9? Even at any age, these kids will not be professional to make a decent living from the sport. So let's get over this idea of trying to create a super team - wonder if you are a coach or a parent
anon 5:09
Relax...nobody is advocating having just one team or one club. Let's just put the top 18 together on 1 team so we can compete with Illinois, Michigan and Ohio.
There will still be teams for all the other kids.
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