This post has certainly created a lot of interest and I will leave it open for a while longer. The MTA will be an interesting option. Please try to stay on topic.
Anonymous said... Since this thread was about the Thunder and their supposed resurgence, it looks like they are returning to form (1-1-3 this month and 4-4-4 this year, for a (yawn) middle of the table spot just above the high-school varsity level boys from Miami FC (yes, the team that offered the Thunder three hilarious goals in one half last month). Anybody else wonder where all of the supposed new zest has dribbled off to?
Question...Do you go and watch and support this team, or do you just complain and cry about it. Why dont you go and support the team and club. Your little Johnny or Suzy doesnt have to play for the club, its the sport you need to support. Get off your phat butt and take the kids and go watch the Thunder or Lightning and enjoy yourself.
Does anybody know with the merger where the teams would practice? Would everything be done in Blaine? Or would the teams be dispersed throughout the cities like they are now?
This is just a move designed to profit the people whose names appear in the announcements and the owners of the Thunder "professional" team. They profess to be following European and South American academy formats, etc., blah, blah, blah. Just more regimented, clinicized, stiff, uncreative American soccer is what it will create. Do you really think the top players in the world honed their skills by going through some school? When are we going to stop kidding ourselves? U.S. soccer has never done anything to REALLY compete at an international level. They just keep throwing the same old worn out players playing the same old worn out style out on the field and qualify for the World Cup in the weakest region. We can beat Barbados 8-0, so what? If the U.S. ever fails to qualify from this region, it should be thrown out of international play.
American soccer will never reach the level of the rest of the world, but these guys will get rich convincing a bunch of desperate, coddling parents to invest too much money trying to get their kids (who from my experience watching soccer, are just cocky, unsportsmanlike, overprivileged snots) a college scholarship or a "soccer career". Save/invest all the extra money you'll have to pay for this folly to pay for college tuition so you can pay for it yourselves. This move is a joke!
Wow. I didn't know people in USA (other than David Beckham) were getting rich off of soccer. Guess the "experts" like whotheyryingt'kid have all the answers. I wonder why folks like him with all the answers don't produce better teams or jump onto the "get rich" youth soccer bandwagon. Gee, just look at all the soccer millionaires in the Minnesota youth soccer. What a tool!
I have just been reading through this entire Blog and need help understanding just exactly why the Thunder academy is needed for U-8-12 ?
I get the consolidating talent at the older ages, but why at the young ages if the revenue isn't the motivator as many have indicated.
I see many current clubs offering very good youth development opportunities and the Thunder is getting many of those kids attending it's camps. Are they planning to bring in the kids to the academy and quit offering camps?
118, Go watch a typical community club and then go watch a club where talent is consolidated at the younger ages. It is night and day. A lot of community based clubs have parents coaching who as hard as they try probably never played soccer at all or had limited experience. I speak from experience, I used to be one of the parents coaching and decided that if the girls wanted to be the best they could be they needed someone more knowledgeable than me. I will agree that the training in local clubs has improved but the amount of training still doesn't compare with the Bangu's of the world. The difference in the amount of touches on the ball is huge I think in time you will see Minnesota have much more of a presence in regionals due to the consolidation.
They are planning to pad the pockets of the guys running it. It has become too hard to keep the same recruiting bs and the time it takes so now we'll have alleged academy programs for 8 year olds and the guys involved will keep their present income level which without this they are fighting a losing battle.
1:44-What coaches are so much better at Bangu versus, EP, Wayzata, Minnetonka, or Burnsville? Their coaching staffs are all very strong and DEVELOP talent better than Bangu. If people didn't suck for the Bangu lines these teams would at least as successful as Bangu, probably more so. I've seen many coaches in many sports in my life. Some of the best "never played the game". I've seen some superstars that couldn't coach tiddlywinks.
For a club to survive they must recruit. The old complaint has always been they don't develop their own players. So when they do they get ripped for having an "alleged academy programs for 8 year olds" It's a no win situation for you people. I don't care how much money they make. They provide a service, if people weren't happy with it they would leave.
going out on a limb here.....but 1:44 likes Bangu and 1:45 does not. Just a wild guess.
The MN Thunder Academy concept is no different than the current Bangu Academy except they will now have a stronger western presence. Their belief (or marketing) is that as a soccer-only club they can offer a better year-round developmental program at the younger levels. Most parents are smart enought to figure out what is right or wrong for them. Do the people running the new Thunder Academy make money? Sure they do, but so do many of the people involved at running the community clubs (DOC's do make a decent living).
Hard to believe all these people are so paranoid about Bangu. First it was they stole players. Now it's why do they need Academies for U8s? If all the clubs offered the same options and quality as Bangu the kids would never leave. There's a reason Bangu teams are playing each other in final matches at State Cup in younger age groups. There's a reason Bangu boys and girls both won State Cup at U13 and will again next year. Maybe you can figure it out if you stop whining and look at it objectively for a minute.
1:59 - please give examples of where these coaching staffs DEVELOPED talent better than Bangu. I'm not saying you are wrong or disagreeing, but you used capital letters so it must be important to you. Also, who is deciding who develops talent better and what is the criteria? Turning a C3 kid into a C1 kid takes talent, taking a C1 team to premier takes talent, and so does taking a team of top age group kids and winning state cups and being competitve at regionals.
2:13, there's also a reason the Bangu U13 Boys and Girls went 0-6 at regions, scoring 1 goal and giving up 15. I'm not sure what that reason is, but by gosh, I want to get my kids on THOSE teams.
If you build it (and promote the heck out of it and convince un-knowing parents that you -- and only you -- offer it), they will come.
Personally, I'm very pleased with the year-round training my soccer-only community club provides. I have two kids playing at a very high level and competing regularly (and beating) bangu teams, and I have a kid to plays at a very low level who also gets high-level training year-round by paid and licensed coaches. Plus, we pay about 1/2 of what Bangu charges its players (or about 1/4 of what I've heard Thwingu will charge).
Good clubs are out there...strong players don't need to leave them to pay -- I mean, PLAY -- in this new scheme.
Bangu and now Thunder is an open club as is your community club. Bangu is not for everybody but the results speak for themselves. Sure, there are some great community based teams that exist - can't agree more. I have children that play for Bangu and ones that play in community clubs. If you want your kid to try out then great. If not, I'm not sure how you benefit from complaining about it so much. I'm sure you enjoy your time on the sideline complaining about your cc coach and how much playing time your kid gets regardless of whether they are playing against Bangu or any other cc based team.
2:14, I think 1:59 is saying BNG GATHERS talent better than most clubs. There are plenty of examples of clubs that form a team at U8 or U9 and have them winning C1 state titles at U12.
From what I've seen, the Bangu model is, let's find the best players from those teams and convince them that they need to be with us. Then, at U13, they have State Cup champs with teams full of players that started somewhere else.
The question I'd have is, how many of the BNG U13s (boys or girls) have played with BNG since U9/10? Seems to me that if Bangu could DEVELOP their own U9/10s, they wouldn't need to do this Thwingu deal.
Shekki, Just for kicks why don't you tell us what it currently costs to play for Bangu and what it will cost to play for Thwingu this. Inquiring minds want to know. Don't be bashful now Shekki, show the bloggers you know your stuff and not just spouting BS.
Shrek I mean Shekki, The Bangu players got to experience going to regions which is soon to be a pipe dream for community clubs. As soon as Woodbury's Inferno is gone so are chances of a community based program. Yes there are some good clubs out there just not enough good players in a zip code to help the truly gifted players reach their potential.
Shrek I mean Shekki, The Bangu players got to experience going to regions which is soon to be a pipe dream for community clubs. As soon as Woodbury's Inferno is gone so are chances of a community based program. Yes there are some good clubs out there just not enough good players in a zip code to help the truly gifted players reach their potential.
For some of you to know, the cost to JUST put on a jersey for Eclipse is $2100, Slammers out on the west coast is $2500. That does not include travel, etc. I think the MTA is going to be alot cheaper than those mentioned.
4:18 and all other Goobers, First, for all the promoting you parents do to cover your insecurity regarding your choice to drink the Kool Aid, for all the bs of Bangu "directors" sneaking around calling people and talking poorly about all other programs, we all should expect more than the showing at regions. Many of us are unimpressed and will vote with our feet come tryout time. You may be a bit overly optimistic regarding the new venture. That many overinflated egos may work against success. As soon as a couple of them are told no, they will move on to the next program to put us on the map
Good things do happen at community clubs. EDI, SCV, MUS, and WDB all got to experience the "thrill" of getting their butts kicked at regions. Not sure why we all need to open our checkbooks and traipse over to Thwingu to experience that.
Re: the expense, I will say that I was talking to a parent who left my kid's team for BNG, and she said her daughter's team bill was twice what it used to be...and the coach is already setting expectations that it will cost more next year, because the team wants to travel to even farther away places to get its butts kicked.
Precisely my point, 6:12. BNG brands the rest of us "community clubs" in an attempt to define us as unable to do more than serve our little communities. What I'm trying to say is that many "community clubs" (I'll use quotes from now on to show that it's their term, not mine) are fully competent and capable of developing and attracting strong players. We don't need to send everyone to one club, especially an extremely headstrong one.
Check out the Bangu marketing website. It basically says, "If you're good, play with us. If not, play for a community club." That's total b.s., and yet unknowing parents repeatedly buy into it.
Shekki, I suggest you spend some of your anti-Bangu energy on helping your own club get better.
Fact - Community clubs have coaches making just as much as Bangu coaches. In more than one case CCs pay more for their coaches with higher level teams.
Fact - If you look at Bangu team budgets you'll see that the majority of a family's expense comes from indoor training time and travel. If you don't want either don't come to this club. Moreover, I would bet top teams at Woodbury, SCV, Wings, and others have very similar price tags. If they don't, then they are subsidized by either the CC's rec program of lower level traveling teams. Hmm, does that seem more right than what Bangu does?
Fact - there are currently 5 paid directors with Bangu. They each draw roughly $100 per kid (from only the kids they are responsible for) per year. That's $10/month. If you think that's a get rich quick scheme, I've got a bridge to sell you. Thus, there are many, many more highly compensated individuals in CCs than there are in Bangu.
Fact - haters keep the rallying cry alive that Bangu bashes CCs. You continue to completely disrespect families who make a choice and call them all blinded by the Bangu marketing shine. Give people credit for pursuing options for their kids that parents feel are best.
Fact - MU U14 boys get hammered at regionals by a MLS youth program (Crew Jrs). Edina U15 boys get hammered by a MLS youth team (Fire Jrs). And you people think the CC way is the way to address true talent? You have no idea what you're talking about.
426 - please vote with your feet. You have every right to do so. It's this very freedom that has allowed the Bangu program to flourish in numbers in recent years. We're not stopping you from walking to a CC, you shouldn't stop others from walking to Bangu.
Youth soccer is changing with many nationally competitive clubs leading the way across the US with mergers and alliances with professional club. There will always be people who don't believe this is a good option for kids. If these people are in decision making roles in community clubs, their club will always be playing copycat and catch up to clubs who have progressive and aggressive soccer experts.
Shekki, We're still waiting for you to "show us the money". You seem to know it all but can't tell us how much the financial commitment is. I know how much it is because I write the checks. You're all BLOW and no go. I won't hold my breath waiting to you to post your "facts".
Fact: Premier-level player in "CC," as you insist on calling us, three out of state tournaments, trains year round (2x/week indoors in winter), top-level coach, less than $2,000 for the year. Completely unsubsidized by other programs.
I write the checks. How's that compare? We "CC"ers will await your response.
are those the same Edina and MU teams that won the State Cup that Bangu lost in?Funny stuff you write,choosing bits of a big picture to sell your show. Mn has had teams beaten before and often,the victors from other States were not always Academys just good clubs.
I don't really want to "bash" Bangu or any club. The Bangu group (in my opinion) bashes the CCs. One thing that should be mentioned is that the Bangu teams that won state cup have been beaten in subsequent matches this summer. State cup is what it is but it looks like at least some of the other teams are progressing over the summer better than the Bangu teams that beat thm early.
11:10 Name one Bangu team that has been beaten after state cup by a non Bangu team. The answer is none. You are fishing and not even coming close to catching a fish. If you are using MYSA premier league as a measuring point the U13 Girls are playing U14, and have not lost to a U13 teams since state cup and the U14 team has only lost to its own U14 white team since state cup, yes they have lost in the U15 premier league but that is a year older. Nice try!!!!!!
13 East 6-2-1 I assume the 2 losses are to non Bangu teams since there is only one in that league 14 Premier team 0-8-2 by any stable rational person that would equate to 8 losses. Please do not start the we are playing up whine Those choices were made by your staff. Live with the outcome and plaese stop making excuses and whining.
Close to $2000 at Wings on a team that has had 4 different Coaches fill in because of Manny's departure. A one practice a week training regiment. Sometimes in Club soccer you get what you pay for and sometimes not.......
Shekki is just playing the fool. (It comes easy to him) I'm sure he's not including travel cost to the tournaments or hotel and meal expenses at the tournaments. Where does the team train indoors? In a school gym? Or a dome with decent turf? Top level coach? "A" license? "B" license? Don't expect to get a straight answer from this BS artist.
Well said Lou. Shekki is here to wind people up. His club is obviously losing kids to other clubs else he'd not be so petty in his remarks. Else he really cares about all the lost souls who have been coerced into joining clubs like Bangu and wants to bring them back to the light.
People like him are a dime a dozen. Claiming Bangu is not developing players in the right way, then spouting his club strengths which came as a direct copy result of the Bangu model.
As for the MU and Edina comments, they did beat Bangu teams in State Cup. That's not the issue as the Bangu teams would likely have faired as poorly. The issue is about talent consolidation at the older age groups and the need for it in MN. Not to win regional titles, but rather to give top MN atheltes a chance to develop further by competing with and learning from the best this region has to offer.
Good luck with your club Shekki. Develop your younger players well so when your very best find the Thunder Academy (which they will) they will be ready. That's your job.
$2,000 covers club fees, indoor training (in a DOME with TURF), coach with a very impressive record of placing kids in D-1 programs, lots of uniforms, warmups, bags. Travel-related costs not included, as some family members travel with the team and some don't. You BNGs sound shocked that a good soccer expereince can be had for less than $5k.
I'll keep my CC anonymous because it's growing like mad (20% growth this year) and doesn't have room for -- or interest in -- psycho parents and rent-a-players.
Shekki
P.S. Team is 2-0-1 against BNG counterpart in the past year.
Anonymous calls me petty and then writes, "...Develop your younger players well so when your very best find the Thunder Academy (which they will) they will be ready. That's your job." Now THAT's pathetic.
Shekki is nothing more than a wannabe who has turned into a hater. He claims to know all about Bangu but when pressed for facts he has nothing. All he has is BS. Run along Shekki, let the adults communicate.
Shekki, If everyone hated them there wouldn't be thousands of players attending their tryouts. Try again. Can you post something that has even a shred of truth or fact?
It seems clear that if State Cup (one tournament early in the year) is weighted as the #1 barometer of a soccer club's success (cc or soccer club), than clearly Bangu is dominant across the board and should be congratulated. i have said before however that if i were bangu i would not revel in solely bringing MN kids i brought out of the community back into the community for the purpose beating MN teams and competing and winning in local tournaments at their age group (if they play up a year that's great). i am curious as to how much success the bangu teams have had this summer (in leagues, in state tournaments and out of state) because i haven't heard much and their website is void of its usual promotion.
regional travel is becoming more common for the higher level cc teams and players (WI, IL, SD, ND, IA) so the exclusivity of it for State Cup winners is wearing off. if we all want to be truly honest, the best soccer players in our state (and america) are the ones that can't afford either cc or bangu. bangu has a naturally high financial threshold which is fine and without the scholarships they offer to top players subsidized by their low level teams they would not have access to some portion of their talent. that's not begrudging them because it is smart even if it is just a few players that will make a difference. actually they should probably use them more to attract players to travel to regional events than to pull them from cc teams to play league or Eden Prairie Cup.
for those who know can you clarify, one thing that seems confusing about the thunder announcement? it seems that all u13 and above training will be either in Blaine or Minneapolis. u6-u12 will be spread out to separate academies (North, South, East, West). Is this true? If so, it seems South kids 13 and up are screwed. Kids geographically linked to places like Lakeville, Burnsville, Dakota Rev, Prior Lake, etc. 13 and above would seem to be forced for major travel year round. this doesn't seem logical for total metro recruiting so perhaps it isn't true. Does anyone know?
Well put, Parent in Lakeville. If you're going to take all the best players, then take them and go forth (regionally, nationally) and succeed. Sticking around to beat the teams you just raided seems like a waste of time.
With all the best players in Minnesota, you SHOULD be the best here. The fact that you're not competitive regionally tells me you're taking the best players and not doing anything with them.
So, your answer is to cast a wider net to attract even more players, from whom you will extract large sums, but with whom you will do nothing.
Shekki, We're still waiting for you to tell us how much it costs to play on a Bangu team. You seem to know it all. Please fill us in as you're the "expert". We need to know the amount, what is included, and what age group you're discussing. Fill us in if you have a clue.
1. MN is unsuccessful at Regions because MN players are not well-DEVELOPED in their technical development stage of U6-U12 when they are playing at CC's. CC's have some good coaches and some bad coaches. But for the most part, CC's have multisport athletes who aren't good and focus on hockey and basketball after July.
2. Historically, MN gets spanked at regions in young ages and MN has seen most of their success at regions at the older ages. This is because the CC's have not been developing players during the U6-U12 window. In general, MN players just aren't good at U13. Then when they get older, a handful of top players merge onto a select team, develop tactically by top coaches (typically a Bangu coach), and then perform respectably at Regions. So, Thwingu already has the later stages figured out. Now they're going to try to develop dedicated players themselves so they don't have to deal with the mess, damaged goods and hockey scraps that are coming out of the CC's.
3. In general, Thwingu has the best coaching staff. All their coaches aren't perfect. And there are some CC coaches out there who are better. But coach-for-coach, Thwingu easily has the best and most dedicated staff.
4. Most players don't go to Bangu for the coaches. They go to Bangu to play with other players who have equal dedication. Most Bangu players think of football as their primary sport. Therefore, these players don't have to deal with the low dedication levels that many CC players have.
5. Why is MN high school soccer so disgusting to watch? It's because the players aren't very good. It's not because the coaches are bad, as they usually are. It's because the players are bad. The players are bad because HS teams are filled with CC level players. If the players were actually good, like if 11 players on an HS team were good, it wouldn't matter how bad the coach was, the players would still be able to produce something more appealing than what has been put out their for the last many years.
So here's to the young, progressive and dedicated football minds within Thwingu for trying to change and improve the development of MN football players.
It blows me away how the thunder, blunder, winthungu, whatever did not see this coming.
From MYSA:
Sponsor/Partner News
The Minnesota Youth Soccer Association (MYSA) would like its members to know that MYSA has notified the Minnesota Thunder and the Minnesota Lightning that it will not be renewing its current partnership agreements, which expire August 31, 2008. Despite the decision to not renew these agreements, MYSA believes it is important for a link to exist between all of our youth soccer players and the men’s and women’s professional soccer teams in the state and will therefore be looking at new ways for MYSA to work with the Minnesota Thunder and Minnesota Lightning professional soccer teams.
MYSA represents approximately 80,000 youth soccer players and 140 member clubs in the state and can not sponsor an organization, like the Thunder Academy, which treats some of MYSA’s players and clubs differently than the rest.
I claim not to be an expert on BNG's fees. I simply know what the fees are for my kid, and have talked with a parent whose daughter left my "CC" for BNG and is not impressed with the experience (yes, her kid is a "starter") or the value (quality divided by price).
My kid is getting a darn good experience for $2k a year. So, what do YOU pay, oh passionate BNG parent?
Looks like MYSA listened to all the people who cried out in fear of the Thunder stealing all their players. Great illustration of why US Club soccer is the way most top level clubs are going. There is room for both in our state.
As for the Thunder, I know for a fact that their owners already offered to not collect on the $40K of MYSA sponsorship dollars early in the spring. IMO, MYSA sent this out to head off the Thunder breaking off the partnership this fall. Both sides are better off. Hopefully MYSA will honor their claim to still seek out ways to promote pro soccer.
These people could have used a strategist who knows and understands MYSA...
I don't think the ticket thing is an issue with close to a 5% redemption rate, that is not a problem. They will certainly miss the almost $50K "handout" that MYSA used to give them and it just looks bad to have the MN "pro" team not have a solid relationship with an entity that, for now, registers 80,000 players.
Solutions? Dump MYSA and accept the invitation to play in the MPSL and help build it into a viable league.
Holy Cow! What is MYSA doing? To date Bangu has resisted getting involved in the formation of US Club Soccer Leagues. This might just be the impetus to get them to collaborate with the other clubs in the metro who have approached them to form US Club Soccer Leagues. Competition is good for business and will be good for youth soccer too. I for one hope Bangu and the Thunder see the light and go full speed ahead with US Club Soccer League formation. They could probably get all the fields they need up at NSC. This could get really interesting.
The youth soccer landscape will never be the same again. MYSA's "only game in town" days are over!
Idiotic decisions included: They denied USA Cup sanctioning for 2009, so USA Cup will go elsewhere for sanctioning.
The Poretti/Sherrill/Daley administration will leave MYSA in shambles and only administering rec, rec+ and C3 leagues, which is really what they should have been doing all along.
US Club is a great option right now. Kudos to those clubs who could foresee what was going to happen and positioned themselves well...
Maybe, that is just what this state needs. Seems that other states that have other soccer options, leagues have very well developed players. Then MN will advance if our players have more choices in town, US Youth Soccer, US Club, etc. All options their good points just like all clubs have benefits to them.
MYSA... Promoting the game of youth soccer, unless the majority of people cry foul and we allow policy change to stifle elite development and then go and pull support from the state's pro team because pro soccer does no benefit for young players, all the while basking in the praise of brown-nosing club directors and presidents who tout our ability to shun the elite and thus rally to our flag of mediocrity.
I like it, but would suggest the following "friendly amendment..." Can't wait for the 2008 AGM!!!!
MYSA's new tagline -
MYSA... Promoting the game of recreational youth soccer and catering to the egos of neophyte soccer moms and dads who sit on the MYSA YC, unless the majority of people cry foul and we allow policy change to stifle elite development and then go and pull support from the state's pro team because pro soccer does no benefit for young players, all the while basking in the praise of brown-nosing club directors and presidents who tout our ability to shun the elite and thus rally to our flag of mediocrity.
I doubt Thwingu will walk away from MYSA completely. They will still have their top teams (Blue) compete in MRL or Premier leagues for State Cup purposes. But it wouldn't surprise me to see them finally accept one of the USCS proposal to get involved in a new league. I know in the past the Blackhawks tried to get this off the ground but Bangu hedged and this hurt that effort. Bangu also has resisted the invites from the new NPSL until now but I wouldn't be surprised if this might make them reconsider the offer? Maybe MYSA is looking for some competition to help them improve their own operation? ;-) It shouldn't be too long now before they will have some.
If I read the announcement correctly it says that MYSA will not renew the contract in its current form. I don't think this means they do not support the idea of pro soccer in this state. This statement get me though: MYSA represents approximately 80,000 youth soccer players and 140 member clubs in the state and can not sponsor an organization, like the Thunder Academy, which treats some of MYSA’s players and clubs differently than the rest. They're not sponsoring the Thunder Academy, they're sponsoring the Thunder pro team. The Academy is a new entity. Tough to separate I know. What it comes down to is the incompetence of current MYSA leadership. However, these people in charge are going to garner support from the masses based on the masses trying to latch on to their top players. It's ridiculous but common. MYSA needs men in charge with the balls to say "We believe in pro soccer. We believe MTA, a system tied in with the state's professional team and duplicated by many, many other soccer markets in the US, is the best model for elite player development. If you don't like it, tough."
Bummer about MYSA's kneejerk reaction to MTA. I think there's nothing wrong with providing an outlet for the state's top players to assemble, train and compete regionally and nationally against tougher competition. The thing is, I always thought ODP was desgiend to provide that forum. Apparently MYSA messed that up (I'm not an ODP parent, so I don't know), because I suspect that failure has led to a void that MTA feels it can fill. I do have issues with the MTA teams turning around and competing in state, as that seems contrary to the mission of assembling the best and competing against the best. If you assemble the best from the rest, the rest aren't the best anymore.
wedding day, you bring up a great point. MTA teams were going to play US Club until MYSA went ballistic when they found out. MYSA wants control, and this control forces talented teams to beat up on others. Everyone cries out against elite clubs destroying other teams when the same people need to cry out against MYSA policy as outdated league structure and too stringent play up rules lend to blowouts, blowouts which lead to more angst. It is all such a vicious circle, due in large part to our state association.
For those of us newer bangu parents unaccustomed to the lingo, what does the mysa announcement mean in practical terms. as in if my kid plays on a bangu team between 11 and 14 let's say, where will they play their games next summer (and this fall for that matter). lets say for example my kid is on the u12 girls team (playing as u13) team in the east district this summer (won state cup). is this to say then that there will be no Thunder/bangu teams allowed to compete in MYSA leagues (fall or summer) or State Cup for example? if so, where would this team play?
In a merger of clubs, do both clubs keep every existing team competitive status they currently have, or does 1 of the 2 (or both clubs for that matter) lose their teams' competitive status?
not to distract the conversation from all the fun off the field discussions but it looks like there are still plenty of competitive races on the girls side (my daughter) for the top positions for premier spots which should make for a fun couple of weeks actually out watching soccer (and state tournament). my daughter's team plays Burnsville u13c1 this weekend at a tournament and I am curious if anyone has observations about them. they didn't do much at state cup but it looks like they already won their league. is the competition in the south that bad or are they good? (no names please)
The clubs are not actually merging, are going through a name change. BNG is now MTA and the teams will keep their status, all Wings teams are going to be MTW and they will also keep league status. If the clubs actually merged that would be different.
Before all Bangu types get carried away, Thwingu has so far done nothing. Lots of hype an 0-8-2 14premier team. That's the future of elite soccer we are so excited about? Give the shameless self promotion a rest
I'd pay to see the MTA teams forced to play C3. "OK, kids, now you can only use your heads to score the next five goals." It will be interesting to see how the MYSA tries to mess that up.
"We know who you are." What is that supposed to mean? Are you going to T-P my house now? Sheesh. Unfortunately to you, I'm not anyone important...just someone trying to get under everyone's skin. (Success!) Plus, I'm in the phone book. Look under W-E-E-W-A-X.
shrekkie - If your so proud of your club why don't you tell us which one it is so we can all come to try outs or maybe your kid didn't make a top Bangu Blue team and your still frustrated because your kid got your genetics and not your spouces.
Grrrrrr I told you so,, the drooling Goober attack dogs are unleashed! It wasn't just Shekki's kid, his 3rd cousin twice removed also had a kid rejected by the Goo crew.
MYSA, in its spiteful way will probably tell Wings they are club jumping. Oh wait, maybe Bangu is club jumping. Oh, time to redefine that based on how it affects the sons or daughters of the MYSA leaders, DOC, or whoever else "up there" who thinks they should have special privelages. Time to slap their hands (Thwingu's) and make it hurt." That's how they operate.
210, When you get attacked your suppose to fight back. If you haters would stop we wouldn't have to defend our club and kids. Some people think everything should be fair and equal and why even keep score. We wouldn't want to hurt little susie's feelings. The sad thing is that the parents get more upset than the kids.
Congrats to the new Blunder on their fine performance in losing to PDL Cleveland! This is just what you need to spur on your new-fangled silly club! Onward to more Regional and US Open Cup victories!
I think MYSA did exactly the right thing. How could they support one club , Advertising,game promotion,financial support etc. more than the other members they associate with. Proof of the conflict created by the merger is the fact that the Thunder used a privledged email list to promote the merger AND the tryout times for the new entity. If MYSA is going to let the Thunder have an email list of all players to promote their tryout dates, they should have to provide all clubs the same list. Truth is nobody wants to get an email from all clubs advertising the new events of each of those clubs, and the Thunder shouldn't have an added advantage in that regard either.
If the Thunder would just drop the youth academys that compete against the rest of the soccer community and concentrate on the 13+ elite program of one team per age group (that wouldn't even play against the balance of the states players) this whole thing could be supported by the ENTIRE soccer community in the state.
Lets hope some compromise can be reached for the good of soccer in MN.
Once again the term hater being bandied about. Here's a challenge, one of you Goo lovers who hang on every word from your messianic directore write an open letter demanding they stop denigrating other clubs as a promotional tool. When you do that, I'll make it a mission to root out haters everywhere. In other words clean up your own act first!
MYSA makes all their email contact lists available to the public. There was no use of a privileged list.
An add was submitted to the Soccer Times by Bangu advertising the Thunder Academy tryouts. It was pulled at the last minute by the MYSA front office without approval of the board. It was a devious and pre-meditated move. And you think only Bangu people have no moral compass.
Compromise would be great 3:06. Sadly it will only happen with a more soccer savvy MYSA front office.
Burnsville U13 girls are a very good team - new coach, had a good group of players and added a few more quality players this year. They are definitely one of the top teams in their age group.
I was thinking the same. Where are these quotes "denigrating other clubs"? I'd like to see a specific example not just some post from an anonymous blogger.
Before the bombs begin flying again, stop and consider this:
By canceling or ending the current contract with the "Th" part of "Thwingu," I am guessing they did not want to fork $40k over to the combined organization only to have the money possibly subsidize their club teams. A lot of us would be really p*ssed at that.
If they are gonna potentially hand out a $40k subsidies for a club, I wanna make sure my club gets a $40k subsidy too!
MYSA does NOT make the email list of players avalible to all. The Thunder had the list as a privilege for their promotion of the Thunder and Lightning pro teams only.
Now that the Burnsville parent has asked and answered their own question. Here's my take, The Burnsville team is the best in the south, very physical with above average speed. The south is weak with two u-12 teams and underachieving Lakeville,Eagan and Prior lake teams.
The ones with the deep pockets made this decision and MYSA did a marketing spin so as not to make themselves look bad in front of their ignorant membership. "look, we have protected you from the evil elite soccer system"
The new Thunder ownership had to live with the existing contract that was already in place. They no longer needed the MYSA. IMO
I also wouldn't have signed a new deal with an organization like the MYSA that has failed to publish a annual financial report to it's membership for how many years? Also, look at the leadership - how would the Thunder benefit from working with the MYSA that lacks the foresight to see the changing soccer landscape. MYSA had far more to gain in the long term relationship with MTA then MTA did staying in partnership (lol) with the MYSA.
Tomass is right. $40,000 a year to these new owners is pocket change. They made a decision to not have to deal with the bureaucrats and be free to make the right decision for player development and for themselves financially. Now they are "freed" to pursue US Club Soccer opportunities in near future.
If you think Pro soccer in MN does not need, and in fact is wise to alienate, the largest soccer association in MN. then I question your judgement. Mn soccer needs the Thunder and the Thunder doesn't exist without a broad fan base. The broadest fan base avaliable to them is through MYSA. Fighting ,and competing against the masses is an uphill battle for sure. The Thunder "brand" is just not that strong that it can go it alone without a broadbase of support.
The current model for the Thunder academies is flawed in my opinion. I however do support an elite program to consolodate talent at age 13 and up. JMO
The Kicks flourished without a broad based organization like the MYSA. The owners are smart business people investing in a world sport.
I still do not like their on-field product, but I do see them, in the long term, having a greater impact on the soccer landscape of MN in 5 years than the MYSA has over the past 15 years.
Real soccer people and fans do not need the MYSA. As an earlier poster stated, it will become a Rec Soccer organization or one that caters to only the casual player.
The sad fact is, it didn't have to turn out that way. It really didn't
Wow, Tomass. I have usually felt your comments were one of an educated, level headed true fan of soccer in MN . I don't care what club you are part of I just respected your point of view. I think you know your last posting is missing on many points.
The Kicks were MLS. "real soccer" fans will produce only a sliver of the gate the Thunder need if they are to be viewed as a good use of the public's entertainment dollar. Real Soccer people are going to get pretty bored playing against one another as MYSA is the league of choice. The Club socccer league may catch on to some degree, but it will be a start up in MN. Many bumps in the road are ahead for any start up organization.
MYSA and the Thunder need to work it out, The Thunder should Dump the youth academies and focus on the elite teams. Support, NOT compete against the soccer public, and the Thunder will thrive.
If what you say about the revenue needs of the new ownershipo are true, then they don't need the youth academies for the revenue either. Put the money into improving the Thunder Camps, supporting the community clubs, running coaches clinics, and working to unite the soccer commmunity , not divide it as this program has done. JMO
How many of MYSA youth members/clubs came out to support the Thunder prior to their MTA announcement? A few hundred a game? The Thunder are going to double this with their new fan base (youth club) in a heartbeat. The Thunder don't need MYSA for ticket sales. I agree with Tomass that this will come if the product on the field improves.
Clubs will use Bangu/Wings/MA/MTA as excuses to pull the support of the pro team, support that never existed.
Shame on soccer experts like JC, NC, and many of the YC for letting inept people like CD and SO run the show from the front office. It's nauseating but will eventually be the best thing for MN soccer in the years to come.
Tomass, Usually you have intelligent things to add here which is rare. Tonight you sound like the Bangu people lashing out at others. The new MTA is not elite they have done nothing yet so unless I can declare myself king, they can't call themselves elite with any meaning. Also, there are many who take the opposite view, MYSA has not done enough to curb the excesses of some. Other states with elite soccer in fact teams that easily beat Mn teams have far more oversight by their respective associations.
anon 8:17 Please elaborate on "excesses" and give an example or two. From what I've seen MYSA will do whatever the member clubs vote for and require them to do.
MYSA is here for the clubs, NOT FOR THE YOUTH. This has been made crystal clear by the current admin. Change is needed but will never come when clubs have the vote. Change will come when people start finding alternatives. US Club is the way to go. The Thunder will organize it and some will come. The others left behind with MYSA have some peace. It will not last as the elite relative to the rest of MYSA will eventually need special consideration. They will migrate to the US Club initiative and so on and so on. There is room for two groups here in MN and the YOUTH will benefit.
Help me out here. An above Bangu poster stated "thousands" of kids came to Bangu tryouts last year. I believe that is over estimated by thousands but I'll let it go for now. The brain trust had the pick of all those players, managed to put together a 14 premier team WHO FAILED TO WIN ONE PREMIER LEAGUE GAME. Now Tomass and others want MYSA, all DOC's, all members and clubs to get behind the MTA That doesn't pass the laugh test. The Bangu backers say the age group is weak, they get all the players according to their own hype, get beaten by 4 CC teams and want all of us to get on board. Everyone run the other way soon!
excuse me, the merger with the elite clubs into the MTA is leveraged in a far greater position for future success at the highest levels than MYSA could ever dream of doing or refused to because of their membership. MYSA had their chance. The MYSA refused to exert the proper leadership for the development of the top players in the state.
The MYSA's two prong approach to development:
1) if you want to change something submit a new rule and see if you can get it passed by the membership.
2) Give total authority to semi-secretive governing bodies of the MYSA so they can make rules that benefit those select few and keep others in line.
When are soccer people going to start or be allowed to make leadership decisions?
The MYSA is not necessarily the league of choice it is the league of "this is all we got"
I wanted change through the MYSA (go back 2-3 years of earlier posts.) I begged for change, but after seeing the true bureaucracy in inaction I have come to realize that change is not going to come from within, but from the outside.
Also the Kicks were not MLS. They were NASL. The Thunder ownership has greater resources than the ownership of any past professional team in MN (including the Kicks)
tom-ass, well, first let me on behalf of all of us with sensitive internet security programs thank you for driving all of our protective software nuts with your tom-ass logo. You also make a perfectly ludicrous argument regarding the so-called MTA (let's see, would that be the Mark's (or Marks' if you like) Treasury Account or Most Tragic Association or perhaps Marginal Track-Record Association?). Would the Kicks have lost to Cleveland City? I never even heard of Cleveland City soccer before the other day. The entry about the tragic U14P team above is spot on: These guys are not the answer. Who are you kidding here? Trade MYSA for the gu cronies, Amos (sorry Amos) and what's left of Wings (who get what they deserve)? MYSA has plenty of issues, but this is the equivalent of jumping in bed with a deranged hooker because you have marital issues. I don't know what the answer is, but you're advocating surrender rather than a positive solution. Sorry logo man.
Oooh, another bitter, bitter man. Tomass and others are right on the mark here. The possibilities for what MTA can do for the very best MN players leaves MYSA's elite development plans in the dust. And that's OK. MYSA is here for the masses, run by the masses (or by people who appeal to the masses), and can in no way lead adequate development of the elite without nearly all their member clubs in an uproar. MYSA has taken their $40K ball back and left for home thinking the game for MTA is done. That's their choice (if their in this case is a few people making decisions reflecting on the whole MYSA board). It's OK. Here comes US Club with another bouncier ball for MTA to play with. And everyone is happy.
MYSA had their chance and are now grasping at anything to save a bit of face. They wanted to stifle the MTA movement but failed. They are too big, too slow moving, and are responsible for too many people who will not see a direct benefit from the MTA program. They will continue to provide guidance for member clubs interested in what they have to offer while other leagues and organizations with more vision and less stringent policy against the elite will begin to flourish.
The next few years will be interesting. Thanks to all the progressive minds who have worked hard to make MTA happen for us.
There are options, folks. I must say I'm impressed with the teams that have been coming out of BHK and MUS (my kid does not play with either, rather he plays regularly against them). They start with a community core and train them very well, and then when a team takes off, they attract other stronger players. BHK's U15B premier are a great group, with a core of players that has been together for many years. MUS U14Bs have two premier level teams that are very strong. If some club feels their mission is to take the cream of the crop and go play in another sandbox, so be it. Just please leave, though. There will still be plenty of strong players, teams and clubs left here, and frankly, on any given day...
The Thunder doesn't need MYSA to fill the stands. As an MYSA player for 12 years, I didn't go to a single Thunder game.
The Thunder needs beer drinking, tailgating hooligans to fill the stands as avid fans (see Vikings, see Wild, see European football). The Thunder might be able to do this when they get a St. Paul stadium and when they join the MLS. MN Soccer is in trouble if the Thunder need to rely on minivan driving soccer mommies and their toddlers for ticket sales.
While the Thunder lost to a 2nd Division team, they have beaten MLS teams in the past. Funny things happen in football. Grow up will ya.
When they get a stadium? When they join the MLS? bwaaaa hhaaaaaa hhaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa. Now THAT's funny. I love how the dumpy digs in Blaine are being promoted by the Thunder's magnificent PR people as a new stadium.
The Thunder doesn't need MYSA or ANYONE because they ALREADY HAVE beer-drinking tailgating hooligans, and all 50 of them regularly attend each game. I can't verify that they're beer-drinking hooligans, but I figure they must be impaired, because they think they're watching good soccer. At least they got rid of that 7-foot Japanese thug. What a waste of DNA.
When they get a stadium? When they join the MLS? bwaaaa hhaaaaaa hhaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa. Now THAT's funny. I love how the dumpy digs in Blaine are being promoted by the Thunder's magnificent PR people as a new stadium.
The Thunder doesn't need MYSA or ANYONE because they ALREADY HAVE beer-drinking tailgating hooligans, and all 50 of them regularly attend each game. I can't verify that they're beer-drinking hooligans, but I figure they must be impaired, because they think they're watching good soccer. At least they got rid of that 7-foot Japanese thug. What a waste of DNA.
I'm not sure about anyone else here, but with the current economy and gas prices I would bet against the success of just about any minor league team right now.
People don't have the disposable income they used to, and it will be a long, long time before what disposable income they do have will go towards a drive to Blaine to spend money on minor league soccer tickets and concessions.
All of this talk about SSM playing in State Cup will be a moot point possibly as early as next year and for certain the year after. It sounds like a done deal that SSM and Thwingu will be accepted into the USSF Academy program. Once part of that program the age groups in the USSF Academy are not allowed to play in leagues, tournaments etc except against other USSF Academy programs. Let's save our breath on this issue. SSM and Thwingu will not be competing in State Cup of USYS Regionals in boys age groups U16-U18 in near future.
To the tune of the Go Gos Hey Mickey (in case you can’t figure that out!)
Oh Shekki you’re not fine, hope your kids don’t hear you whine Hey Shekki, (hey, hey) Hey Shekki Oh Shekki you’re kinda blind, never had a Regional time? Hey Shekki (hey, hey) Hey Shekki Oh Shekki, by the way, my kids a Goo and pays $2K Hey Shekki (hey, hey) Hey Shekki Hey Shekki that’s OK, good luck to you and MYSA
Oh Shekki what a pity you don’t understand That families make a choice and we should be glad they can Oh Shekki you’re so petty can’t you understand It’s guys like you Shekki Who let their hate Shekki, hate Shekki ruin their life Shekki
8:17 - maybe they can call themselves elite, at least in Minnesota, because the club that forms the backbone of their organization won... errrr... just about every single state cup title this year?
Well done, hey Shekki, on the Toni Basil song (same era, wrong artist). I hope you didn't waste too much time thinking of it. The $2k / MYSA rhyme is brilliant, but "Shekki" doesn't rhyme with "petty." How about, "Oh Shekki, you're a Trekky..."
Per Wiki:Ripple is a low-end fortified wine, commonly known as bum wine, wino wine, twist-cap wine or rotgut wine, is any of a class of inexpensive fortified wines that are popular among the poor, homeless, and college students in the United States for the quick inebriation they deliver. I had the pleasure of imbibing this as a young adult. As well as MD 20-20, Annie Green Springs and other high end vintages. I am sure other old-timers (Tomass?) may have partaken as well.
10:09 Yes, you chose the criteria of State Cup Champion = Elite Soccer program. You have my agreement, now you need to state clearly that PSA, MUS, Edina, SCV, WDB are elite programs too. You are a typical goober who wants it both ways. Call those programs elite or don't refer to Bangu as elite either way works for educated people.
USSF advised Thwingu that there will be a pair of clubs accepted when Minnesota is added. Teams will not travel to Minnesota to play only 1 match so there needs to be 2 teams/clubs that have Academy status. So that's why there will be 2 USSF Academies. It's all about travel and expenses etc. Hard to believe SSM & Thwingu are working together on this but they are.
Winning 1 State Cup championship means you have 1 elite team, that doesn't make you an elite club. Winning 7-8 State Cup Championships each year for 3-4 years is a different animal especially when you look at the additional teams they had playing in semis and final matches that had Bangu teams playing each other. I guess it's all relative but I'd call winning over half the State Cup championships each year for a few years is elite when compared to the other clubs results.
yes, you are a moron. See the above post... perhaps that Blackhawks TEAM was elite but if we're going to talk "club" you better bring a large body of work across a wide range of age groups.
Wow...should stop by more often....we paid about $3400 for an entire year all inclusive (uni's, indoor/outdoor fields, coaching, travel/lodging, food etc) so what is your point...way back in the day we only paid about a $1000 less at a CC. Kid did not like the way they trained or the the way the attitudes of the other players toward training as a team. Kid is happy, playing lots of GOOD soccer and is getting all the training needed. On the plus side they are keeping the powder blue so all is right with the world.
On the flip side, we paid $4300 to be on a Bangu team all inclusive. Kid hated the way Bangu trained and the attitudes of the kids on the team. Kid decided to go back to CC. Paid $2,500 less all inclusive to play at the same level. Kid is happy and all is well with the world. To each his own. Not missing powder blue.
2:19 & 4:18 hopefully summarize what it is all about. There is a club out there for everyone. I doubt 4:18 has any animosity towards 2:19's opinion and I also doubt 2:19 holds any hostility towards 4:18. To each their own.
Not sure if it is the chicken or the egg (which side of pro-bangu vs. con-bangu initiates things), but whatever happened to just a decent respect for another's opinion. You do not have to agree with another's opinions, but they should at least be respected.
Try naive, silly parent. Many gu parents are doing what makes them happy, and they convince their kids this is what's best for them. What the gu people do well is market to parents, and y'all are biting hard on that there hook. Good luck to ya.
I sent my son to Carleton College. Paid over $35K a year. He worked his hiney off for a B-average, had a great time, met great people, and loves his career working for the State in public policy. Could be President some day.
I sent my daughter to the U of M. Paid under $10K a year. She didn't study too much for straight A's, had a great time, met great people, and will be entering her 3rd year of medical school at MN. Could cure cancer some day.
LONDON (AP) - England has banned young children from playing for league and cup trophies in soccer in a bid to remove pressure from parents and coaches.
The ruling issued Friday by the Football Association affects under eight-year-olds and is intended to develop their skills on the field.
"It's widely accepted that we need to improve the skills and technique of players in this country," said Trevor Brooking, the former England and West Ham midfielder who is now the FA's director of football development. "At the moment we are not at the same level as other countries.
"In the youngest age groups, there's too much emphasis on winning leagues, often to satisfy parents and coaches. That's what we're looking to change. We need better, more skillful players coming through."
So you get more skilled players by not keeping score.... I know every kid on a kindergarden inhouse team knows the score at the end of the game. Very happy to live in the free economy of the USA. Anyone who thinks not giving trophies or keeping official won/loss records will somehow remove the average Americans drive to compete at the highest level is missing the boat on what is inherent to the American society. Winning is prefered.
That said if winning is emphasised at the expense of development the winning will stop. Development creates the Ability for LONG TERM winning. The smart clubs find a way to balance both winning and the development of the players skills.
How many games have we all been to where there are 1 or 2 superstars that really stand out?
On one side, the rest of team and parents are upset because those kids control most of the game and score most of the points. That's not fair to those kids who just want to have "Fun".
On the other side, the superstar kids who thrive on the competition are frustrated when they can't pass the ball to other team mates without them losing it (and nothing against the kid that loses the ball).
How many kids do you know that went out for soccer to have fun and had some of those competitive kids on their team and then never came back the next season because they felt inferior on that team? What a waste.
We played a Northern club team the other night at the U10 level. Our opposing team had one player who ran her heart out, was very competitive, and wound up playing the whole field. We beat that team and you could see the frustration in her eyes. She was too good and too competitive for that team. Again, nothing against the other kids. It wasn't fair to her that she was playing with less skilled players but in the area she is from that club is all there is. It also wasn't fair to her team mates either.
The point here is that this merger is a great thing! Local clubs can focus on having fun, keeping costs down with volunteer coaches, etc. Like many have said, not everyone is that competitive. When a team in a given club gets one of those kids like I mentioned above, they will now have an opportunity to help that player out by directing them down an avenue where they can play competitively. That helps that kid out and also helps the club team by not having one or two of those "Ball Hogs" on their team. Most are not ball hogs but rather just very talented kids.
There are the kids that a very competitive and there are those that just want to have fun. I have three kids and all were at different levels. My oldest was a Wings Premier player, my middle one is a Bangu player, and my youngest is a club soccer player. The two older ones are very competitive and wanted more! I even tried to keep them in club soccer but they were bored and frustrated. My youngest is happy with just having fun in our local club soccer. We are more than pleased with all 3 clubs based on the level of play for each.
Set the politics aside, and look at it from the kids perspective and there is nothing but opportunity. When it comes down to it...kids come out for soccer because they simply want to play soccer. This merger can only help give kids more opportunity if everyone just lets it.
From a financial standpoint, yes there will be a large amount of money invested in this merger. Becuase the primary focus is a more elite and competitive club you can also expect more than a club can offer. Paid and certified coaches that can help the competitive ones improve. Sponsorships to help offset the cost of fees and travel. I know of a number of kids that would love to play at a higher level however the familes simply can't afford it. What a waste! While these kids may not ever play professional or make a living off of the sport the opportunities that the sport can offer are huge for their future. My oldest is already getting calls from colleges left and right simply because she was noticed on a Wings Premier team at a college showcase. You won't get that kind of an oppotunity in most club soccer. If you look at kids who can't afford to play competitive soccer, they certainly aren't going to be able to afford college. If a competitive club can open a door for them like that one can only imagine. If MTA can actually pull off lowering or eliminating club and travel fees for the players that make the team, that is awesome.
For those that are complaining about elite, monopoly clubs, etc. please look at the bigger picture. I suspect that you have not had your kids (if they are competitive) play outside of Minnesota. MN has a hard time competing outside of the state simply because soccer has not developed like many other states. We are so stuck on everyone playing fair and we do so by trying to stick everyone in a single mold. When we do so those people are the first to complain that their kid didn't play enough, or did not get the ball enough, or never had an opportunity to score, etc.
In as polite a way as possible, zip your mouth and be thankful something like this has come along. This will get those kids who hog the ball too much off of your kids team. It will also give those kids the opportunity to play with kids at their own level.
Anon 3:46 - All good as long as MTA opens it's arms to all competitive comers and doesn't simply stack the rosters with Bangu and Wings players. Based on the club e-mails I've seen, my money is on the later. IMHO, putting a new title on old teams isn't much of an improvement.
anon 433, The new MTA teams will select the 18 best players for their top teams. Will everyone think the same 18 are the best? No. But the coaches and evaluators will take the 18 players they think are best. The next best 18 will go on the 2nd teams. They've operated that way in the past and there is no reason they won't in the future. They want to go to Regionals and win.
Buyer beware. Sure there will be two teams and the top team will arguably include the best 18 at that age group, but the second team will likely not include the second best 18. Kids and parents that don't make the top team will go elsewhere in hope of making a top team in another club. The second MTA teams in an age group may not offer all that is advertised. Just talk to some Bangu "white" team players and parents.
Yeah, the U14G White team will all probably look elsewhere next year. So will the U11G, U15G, U12B, U13B, and all the other White teams who are among the top teams at their respective age groups.
But they will probably "pool" the players and make them commit to the program for a chance to make the top team. That way the players don't have a chance to go anywhere else to play if they don't make the top team because the commitment (and money) is already with this club.
That's outrageous! Having people buy into the club philosophy and structure rather than catering to the club hoppers looking to have their child play on a top team regardless of what that club offers in terms of development. How absurd!
Bangu has had teams play each other in State Cup finals and semi finals many times the past 4-5 years. It appears in many cases they do have the top 2 teams. From the outside looking in it appears they are doing well.
I see MYSA has posted their decision about the Thunder sponsorship on their website. Why do they continue to highlight their complete ignorance that professional soccer is a huge plus to Minnesota youth soccer players? So what if club presidents are in an uproar? So what if clubs "lose" players to another soccer opportunity? Isn't MYSA here for Minnesota youth???????? What a bunch of crap. Candace, Shelly, Bob, whoever need to be voted our due to their incompetence and petty vendetta against the Thunder for not being included in the initial MTA planning. It's obvious now why they were not.
I can't believe the Executive Board Youth Council, or whoever else are being represented by the actions of the front office can stand for this. Someone grow a pair over there and reign in the idiots making stupid decisions for our kids. You are all being cast in a poor light because of this and MYSA is losing respect and influence here. You are here for the kids, not the club presidents. Grow up, take charge, and pull your head out of your...
OMG, I second that 1202!!!!!!!!! It's an absolute disgrace and Mrs Daley has sent MYSA into the dark ages. She was a crisis manager I was told in her past work field. Maybe that's why she's created this mess, so she finally feels capable in the MYSA office.
Issues like this are why within the next 12-18 months USCS will more than likely get a foothold here in Minnesota. Once that occurs and the leagues are established there will be far fewer teams registering with MYSA and that will have an impact on their budget and the number of MYSA employees etc. Until then nothing will change. Has anyone heard anymore about the Minnesota Premier Soccer League? Are they starting up this fall? I've heard that will be a USCS league.
No one who knows would consider me an MYSA apologist!!! But, this one I get. The Thunder are no longer just a professional club. Once they entered into the youth CLUB ranks MYSA has no choice. MYSA can't be seen as supporting one club over another. But the bigger question is, why does it really matter?
socmom, it's simple. All MYSA needs to do is EXPLAIN this while also lending there support to professional soccer and committing to find a way to work with the Thunder. I think they want to do this but I don't think it comes across well. Let's hope this is their feeling.
1.The US Soccer Federation establishes youth development guidelines, best practices for coaches, and an elite Academy program all based on the European model.
2 West Ham United of the English Premier League partners with the United Soccer League (USL) and establishes the West Ham United Football Academy USA. The USL is owned by Umbro, which is owned by Nike.
3 The Minnesota Thunder, along with other MLS and USL teams begin to form Academy programs with an eye toward youth development.
4 Burnley Football Club, an English First Division team, announced this month that they were exploring a partnership with an American professional team. The Minnesota Thunder and Richmond Kickers are mentioned. Stoke City of the EPR has formed a partnership with the Austin Aztecs, who will begin playing in the USL in 2009. Other such arrangements are rumored.
5 At least one Bangu player has been recruited to play in the USL’s Super Y league after spending a week training in England at West Ham United.
6 Minnesota’s ’92 ODP pool has been invited to train with the Burnley and Thunder coaching staff when that team is in town to play the Thunder.
7 The Thunder Academy has applied for USSF Academy status and the rumor is that both they and Shattuck will gain admission in 2010.
8 MYSA, at the very least, is re-evaluating its relationship with Minnesota’s lone professional team.
These eight points are all facts. I am sure there is a great deal more to unearth, but it seems obvious that there are some very serious changes afoot. I’ll let the rest of you connect the dots.
MYSA has handled this Thunder situation poorly from the beginning. In reality all they have done is insure that Thwingu will now entertain US Club Soccer leagues for all many of their teams. My understanding is that the key players on the Bangu board had resisted the US Club Soccer overtures for the last 2-3 years in deference to trying to be good partners with MYSA. At least that's what I was told by one of their board members. But after this slap in the face to the Thunder the new powers that be from Thunder/Wings/Bangu would be fools not to jump feet first into the Minnesota Premier Soccer League this fall ot next spring. What do they have to lose at this point? Ultimately the competition will improve MYSA quality even if it does reduce the number of teams under their umbrella. If they don't improve they will become the state's rec league in a matter of years. A US Club Soccer league will force them to get better. Monopolies are a thing of the past.
The brand new amazing Thunder swept by lowly Puerto Rico (including a 3-21 drubbing)this weekend. Hey Burnley, maybe you should try to form a partnership with Cleveland City. I heard they are up and coming, too.
This fact, while also incontrivertable, seems to offer a different way to connect the dots. In particular, the Thunder are not very good (that's another fact).
Anon 5:31- Clearly, MYSA has some really bone-headed rules / policies. But, other clubs have to abide by "new teams start at C-3" . I would hope Thunder / Bangu / Wings have already considered this possibility. The fact is, if you don't want to be limited by MYSA, and their arbitrary rulings, GET THE HECK OUT WHILE YOU CAN.
anon 5:31, What we heard from our board is that there will be no issues. There is only a corporate name change for Wings and Bangu. This isn't a different club just name changes. Teams will retain status. Don't let the haters ruin your day.
it seems to me that on the current path, MTA teams u13 and up are just not go to play soccer much in MN beyond state cup. I am guessing these are going to be teams that play the bulk of their games/tournaments/etc. out of state. the youth teams up to 12 are going to play leagues and then MTA will take the best 12 year olds and make them 2 u13 teams and go from there. My only concern is in today's economy, the number of kids and families willing to have a heavy dependence on regional events will shrink. the interesting example will be the u14 premier team (u13 players I believe) that lost state cup and all their premier games (and status). the net result I guess is to play u15c1 and try to re-establish premier status or play MRL using their second place at state cup result which is expensive but probably most likely. this is where I think better teams at good cc with year round training will benefit because they can offer good quality soccer with a MN focus.
for sure, this tryout season will cause the 'tilt' button to go off on this blog
MYSA not to renew its agreements with Thunder and Lightning
The Minnesota Youth Soccer Association (MYSA) would like its members to know that MYSA has notified the Minnesota Thunder and the Minnesota Lightning that it will not be renewing its current partnership agreements, which expire August 31, 2008. Despite the decision to not renew these agreements, MYSA believes it is important for a link to exist between all of our youth soccer players and the men’s and women’s professional soccer teams in the state and will therefore be looking at new ways for MYSA to work with the Minnesota Thunder and Minnesota Lightning professional soccer teams.
MYSA represents approximately 80,000 youth soccer players and 140 member clubs in the state and can not sponsor an organization, like the Thunder Academy, which treats some of MYSA’s players and clubs differently than the rest.
Spain 1 Germany nil..........All MN docs and coaches should be made to watch a replay of this game. The Spanish Smurfs kept the big Huns chassing like hounds. It was all about superior TECHNIQUE and PASSING. It's time for MN to get a clue and replace the boot and scoot coaches with coaches who can develop PLAYERS.
anon 11:42 Are there ANY coaches in Minnesota who have this ability? Where do we get these coaches? Any clubs do a better job of this here in Minnesota than others?
11:42 - World Cup '06......Italy wins - shouldn't we have adopted that style for the last two years? Stifling defense with counters (hmmmm....is it just me, or don't counters usually start with a long direct ball????)?
I second 12:52's comments, who and where are all these coaches that you claim we should have? Have you ever watched UNC play, coached by one of the most succesful college coaches out there? They play a very direct, in your face style.
Most of the top college soccer programs play very direct. Some of the left coast teams play some possession, but are still not exactly playing "pretty" soccer.
could someone out there please explain the difference between "direct soccer", "boot & scoot", "kick & run", etc....? Is there a difference or does it all depend on who's side is playing it?
Isn't it safe to say a well-coached team employs whatever style is needed to exploit the opponent's weaknesses?
It drives me nuts to see teams repeatedly do the same thing over and over again against teams that are "playing" them correctly. A good example is the offsides trap, which several teams (clubs?) rely on. For crying out loud, either put the fastest kid up top and send him/her on a well-timed long ball, or loop the strikers back into the play, send the outside mids to the corners and get numbers into the box. (I'm fairly dumb and know this.)
At a certain point, winning does become all that matters. I doubt many Europeans minded when their sides won boring, ugly, plodding games these past few weeks.
it is about exploiting a team's weakness. possession soccer means nothing if you can't make that dangerous pass that unlocks the defense. Be it direct with purpose from your defending third or possession play through the mid and attacking third.
As in boxing, sometimes you have to punch and not just jab when the opponent exposes himself.
The Soccer Awareness Training that WH conducts for EP is the best I have seen in the state. Of course I'm bias ;-)
What you saw at state cup was one dimensional soccer. You didn't see any playmakers.It's time the docs start directing.....let's put more emphasis on technique and passing.Let's emphasize team play and start developing real players.
If we don't have any coaches who can do this than bring in an elite coach and put on a clinic to teach our club coaches.
Consolidating the top athletes isn't the answer unless they are developed into complete players.
OH NO... MYSA DOESN'T SUPPORT THE THUNDER ACADEMY...
boo figgin' hoo. All that means is that it has even more of a change to succeed. I love how this state praises the most diluted age group because "all the games were close." that shows you right there exactly what the understanding of MYSA is.
How bout their decision to peg SSM U18 girls and BTFC U18s in the SEMI??? Two teams that couldn't represented MN with a chance to win regionals, yet one doesn't go. How did that other team do by the way?
Thwingu may not need MYSA, but they don't need MPSL either. If you think MYSA is incompetent, just look who's behind MPSL and that'll make MYSA look like friggin' wizards. Thwingu just needs to do whatever it takes to stick to their vision/goal. Don't compromise with anyone and you'll be fine. I think the biggest mistake they've made so far is trying to please too many people. Just offer an alternative and let it play out.
Currently MN doesn't have any of these coaches. That's the root cause of why we are mediocre.
The coaches who do the best job attempting to develop players are WH, SW, MA. The rest are strictly one dimensional.
Tomass...Can't agree...our teams are one dimensional.Agree if you are talking top pro teams.
Colleges are trying to get away from DIRECT (advanced boot n scoot). They are looking for PLAYERS but they are hard to find.Clubs simply not taking time to develop them.
Quite funny watching the Spanish Smurfs pass the Huns dizzy.Technique is the name of the game baby..............
anon 9:05 So we're not developing this type of player anywhere in the USA? That's surprising. If WH is good at this why don't his club's teams play that type of game?
talking about some older teams. I can tell you no one works on more one touch possession soccer than WH at EP. It is part of his soccer awareness training program.
We don't have enough technically skilled players because the emphasis is on the winning and not the development. Short term desires outweigh long term.
SW???? - maybe with his Coerver training, but not at EHS. That's bootball at its best. Most EP teams I'v seen from U14 up also play a very similar style - very direct.
There is a difference between the men's and women's game as witnessed by the German women dominating the "beautiful" game of Marta and Brazil at the recent World's Cup.
IMO, what is lacking is not coaching, but the individual skills of the players. This comes from hard individual work and a natural sense of creativity. What compounds the problem is the "system" soccer that we play here in the US which can be stifling.
The reason most high schools have to resort to a very direct style is that rarely are there enough skilled players on one team capable of playing a possession style due to the vaired make ups of the teams. Substance (the final score) will always trump Style (pretty soccer). I'm not saying that is the right approach, but an understandable one.
9:05 "The coaches who do the best job attempting to develop players are WH, SW, MA. The rest are strictly one dimensional." That's about the most short-sighted statement I've seen and there have been many on this string so far. MN isn't blazing any trails in player development by any stretch, but to say that every other coach in the state is not interested in developing players is just plain insulting to those hard working coaches and volunteer parents that that is their focus. Bash the self-promoting coaches and the big namers that spend all their time looking for the next premier team to ride talent with all you want. They put themselves out there and many deserve it. But give some credit to the annonymous coaches working hard whether they are in MTA or the CC's that are doing the right thing working with a smaller talent pool than the soccer hot spots and in an area where hockey is still the king sport and most parents didn't grow up with soccer.
Two things: Often as the CC coaches (some of whom are very good volunteer/parent coaches) develop these players they are pulled from their CC to the for profit clubs (Bangu, Wings, etc.) Secondly, MA may train "complete players" as well but they win their games playing "boot and scoot"
All clubs are non-profit. Hold the snickering...I know for some, it may be a technicallity. That was a side comment.
I think we are discounting the desires of the players themselves. What about the player that gets correctly developed by the coach ("profit club" or traditional CC) and has progressed beyond the level that the team as a whole can compete at. Sometimes they need to find a grouping of better players to surround themselves with and the "profit clubs" have the resources to bring them together. Good for those players for working hard and want to move to more competitive area. Some may find it in the "CC" but in many cases, that is not much different than the "profit club." Frankly, who cares where they go if they want to find the next level. Coaches and parents should be proud of someone progressing to the next step instead of pissing and moaning that their kid was abandoned and now their team isn't as good. On the plus side, it leaves more room for more playing time for those that could use the experience that wouldn't have gotten it with the "star" kid.
Another side comment...didn't the press release say that the Thunder would have full program details up by yesterday? Anyone know why it isn't up yet?
There are many, many coaches in MN who do a very respectable job of developing players. IMO, the ones in this group who excel at technical teaching are the ones who have had higher level playing experiences and who have the understanding of the game that comes with this experience. It's easy to call out the many names who have been highlighted on this blog, but there are many more out there who do a great job.
As for the MYSA thing - the Thunder don't need them and should move away from that group. Will MYSA try and disallow the MTA teams? Though they may want to I'm not sure they can. If they try I think you'll see some nationwide attention and fireworks.
People think MYSA is the end all be all of youth soccer. They are being left behind by progressive thinkers and clubs. Other state associations are changing, MYSA will eventually but probably when the current admin is done with their power trip.
To the Thunder - US Club may be an option but don't forget that many other states have multiple leagues, leagues that allow participation in State Cup, which US Club does not. Start something else and leave MYSA alone to continue to cater to those who see them as the all-knowing soccer entity in this state.
"To the Thunder - US Club may be an option but don't forget that many other states have multiple leagues, leagues that allow participation in State Cup, which US Club does not. Start something else and leave MYSA alone to continue to cater to those who see them as the all-knowing soccer entity in this state."
I would think that the Thunder would actually take advice from people who know what they are talking about!
Unless the brains that attend the AGM change the MYSA rules to allow leagues, it is not going to happen. All you have to do is follow the trail! MYSA is affiliated with USYS, who is affiliated with US Soccer. USYS OWNS the National Championship Series, which includes your local State Cup. If you start up a league, you will not be able to affiliate with MYSA and you will not have access to State Cup. Get it? It is against MYSA rules!!
There was a proposal in front of the AGM about 5 years ago to allow independent leagues. That proposal was laughed at and obviously defeated... The same people are set to launch the biggest competition MYSA has ever had.
Like it or not, the landscape has changed forever...
1,754 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 1754 Newer› Newest»Anonymous said...
Since this thread was about the Thunder and their supposed resurgence, it looks like they are returning to form (1-1-3 this month and 4-4-4 this year, for a (yawn) middle of the table spot just above the high-school varsity level boys from Miami FC (yes, the team that offered the Thunder three hilarious goals in one half last month). Anybody else wonder where all of the supposed new zest has dribbled off to?
Question...Do you go and watch and support this team, or do you just complain and cry about it. Why dont you go and support the team and club. Your little Johnny or Suzy doesnt have to play for the club, its the sport you need to support. Get off your phat butt and take the kids and go watch the Thunder or Lightning and enjoy yourself.
Does anybody know with the merger where the teams would practice? Would everything be done in Blaine? Or would the teams be dispersed throughout the cities like they are now?
I have heard the teams will be training in there specific areas, i.e. South will play in southern suburbs, North in the northern metro, etc.
This is just a move designed to profit the people whose names appear in the announcements and the owners of the Thunder "professional" team. They profess to be following European and South American academy formats, etc., blah, blah, blah. Just more regimented, clinicized, stiff, uncreative American soccer is what it will create. Do you really think the top players in the world honed their skills by going through some school? When are we going to stop kidding ourselves? U.S. soccer has never done anything to REALLY compete at an international level. They just keep throwing the same old worn out players playing the same old worn out style out on the field and qualify for the World Cup in the weakest region. We can beat Barbados 8-0, so what? If the U.S. ever fails to qualify from this region, it should be thrown out of international play.
American soccer will never reach the level of the rest of the world, but these guys will get rich convincing a bunch of desperate, coddling parents to invest too much money trying to get their kids (who from my experience watching soccer, are just cocky, unsportsmanlike, overprivileged snots) a college scholarship or a "soccer career". Save/invest all the extra money you'll have to pay for this folly to pay for college tuition so you can pay for it yourselves. This move is a joke!
A few too many Courvoisiers before bedtime, 1235? If they have customers willing to pay the money to chase their kid's dream, so what?
Sorry if your portfolio took a hit on those properties you bought and tried to flip.
12:35
Try doing some research on the womens side and see what you come up with.
Wow. I didn't know people in USA (other than David Beckham) were getting rich off of soccer.
Guess the "experts" like whotheyryingt'kid have all the answers.
I wonder why folks like him with all the answers don't produce better teams or jump onto the "get rich" youth soccer bandwagon.
Gee, just look at all the soccer millionaires in the Minnesota youth soccer.
What a tool!
Looks like no MN girls teams will advance out of the region. Better luck next year.
I have just been reading through this entire Blog and need help understanding just exactly why the Thunder academy is needed for U-8-12 ?
I get the consolidating talent at the older ages, but why at the young ages if the revenue isn't the motivator as many have indicated.
I see many current clubs offering very good youth development opportunities and the Thunder is getting many of those kids attending it's camps. Are they planning to bring in the kids to the academy and quit offering camps?
118, Go watch a typical community club and then go watch a club where talent is consolidated at the younger ages. It is night and day. A lot of community based clubs have parents coaching who as hard as they try probably never played soccer at all or had limited experience. I speak from experience, I used to be one of the parents coaching and decided that if the girls wanted to be the best they could be they needed someone more knowledgeable than me. I will agree that the training in local clubs has improved but the amount of training still doesn't compare with the Bangu's of the world. The difference in the amount of touches on the ball is huge I think in time you will see Minnesota have much more of a presence in regionals due to the consolidation.
They are planning to pad the pockets of the guys running it. It has become too hard to keep the same recruiting bs and the time it takes so now we'll have alleged academy programs for 8 year olds and the guys involved will keep their present income level which without this they are fighting a losing battle.
1:44-What coaches are so much better at Bangu versus, EP, Wayzata, Minnetonka, or Burnsville? Their coaching staffs are all very strong and DEVELOP talent better than Bangu. If people didn't suck for the Bangu lines these teams would at least as successful as Bangu, probably more so. I've seen many coaches in many sports in my life. Some of the best "never played the game". I've seen some superstars that couldn't coach tiddlywinks.
For a club to survive they must recruit. The old complaint has always been they don't develop their own players. So when they do they get ripped for having an "alleged academy programs for 8 year olds" It's a no win situation for you people. I don't care how much money they make. They provide a service, if people weren't happy with it they would leave.
going out on a limb here.....but 1:44 likes Bangu and 1:45 does not. Just a wild guess.
The MN Thunder Academy concept is no different than the current Bangu Academy except they will now have a stronger western presence. Their belief (or marketing) is that as a soccer-only club they can offer a better year-round developmental program at the younger levels. Most parents are smart enought to figure out what is right or wrong for them. Do the people running the new Thunder Academy make money? Sure they do, but so do many of the people involved at running the community clubs (DOC's do make a decent living).
Hard to believe all these people are so paranoid about Bangu.
First it was they stole players.
Now it's why do they need Academies for U8s?
If all the clubs offered the same options and quality as Bangu the kids would never leave.
There's a reason Bangu teams are playing each other in final matches at State Cup in younger age groups.
There's a reason Bangu boys and girls both won State Cup at U13 and will again next year.
Maybe you can figure it out if you stop whining and look at it objectively for a minute.
1:59 - please give examples of where these coaching staffs DEVELOPED talent better than Bangu. I'm not saying you are wrong or disagreeing, but you used capital letters so it must be important to you. Also, who is deciding who develops talent better and what is the criteria? Turning a C3 kid into a C1 kid takes talent, taking a C1 team to premier takes talent, and so does taking a team of top age group kids and winning state cups and being competitve at regionals.
2:13, there's also a reason the Bangu U13 Boys and Girls went 0-6 at regions, scoring 1 goal and giving up 15. I'm not sure what that reason is, but by gosh, I want to get my kids on THOSE teams.
If you build it (and promote the heck out of it and convince un-knowing parents that you -- and only you -- offer it), they will come.
Personally, I'm very pleased with the year-round training my soccer-only community club provides. I have two kids playing at a very high level and competing regularly (and beating) bangu teams, and I have a kid to plays at a very low level who also gets high-level training year-round by paid and licensed coaches. Plus, we pay about 1/2 of what Bangu charges its players (or about 1/4 of what I've heard Thwingu will charge).
Good clubs are out there...strong players don't need to leave them to pay -- I mean, PLAY -- in this new scheme.
Shekki
Bangu and now Thunder is an open club as is your community club. Bangu is not for everybody but the results speak for themselves. Sure, there are some great community based teams that exist - can't agree more. I have children that play for Bangu and ones that play in community clubs. If you want your kid to try out then great. If not, I'm not sure how you benefit from complaining about it so much. I'm sure you enjoy your time on the sideline complaining about your cc coach and how much playing time your kid gets regardless of whether they are playing against Bangu or any other cc based team.
2:14, I think 1:59 is saying BNG GATHERS talent better than most clubs. There are plenty of examples of clubs that form a team at U8 or U9 and have them winning C1 state titles at U12.
From what I've seen, the Bangu model is, let's find the best players from those teams and convince them that they need to be with us. Then, at U13, they have State Cup champs with teams full of players that started somewhere else.
The question I'd have is, how many of the BNG U13s (boys or girls) have played with BNG since U9/10? Seems to me that if Bangu could DEVELOP their own U9/10s, they wouldn't need to do this Thwingu deal.
Kato
3:36, I've never complained to a coach about anything, and my kids' playing time has varied a lot over the years.
Shekki
Shekki,
Just for kicks why don't you tell us what it currently costs to play for Bangu and what it will cost to play for Thwingu this.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Don't be bashful now Shekki, show the bloggers you know your stuff and not just spouting BS.
Shrek I mean Shekki, The Bangu players got to experience going to regions which is soon to be a pipe dream for community clubs. As soon as Woodbury's Inferno is gone so are chances of a community based program. Yes there are some good clubs out there just not enough good players in a zip code to help the truly gifted players reach their potential.
Shrek I mean Shekki, The Bangu players got to experience going to regions which is soon to be a pipe dream for community clubs. As soon as Woodbury's Inferno is gone so are chances of a community based program. Yes there are some good clubs out there just not enough good players in a zip code to help the truly gifted players reach their potential.
Woodbury Inferno is NOT community based, they pull players from as many zip codes as any Bangu team.
For some of you to know, the cost to JUST put on a jersey for Eclipse is $2100, Slammers out on the west coast is $2500. That does not include travel, etc. I think the MTA is going to be alot cheaper than those mentioned.
4:18 and all other Goobers, First, for all the promoting you parents do to cover your insecurity regarding your choice to drink the Kool Aid, for all the bs of Bangu "directors" sneaking around calling people and talking poorly about all other programs, we all should expect more than the showing at regions. Many of us are unimpressed and will vote with our feet come tryout time. You may be a bit overly optimistic regarding the new venture. That many overinflated egos may work against success. As soon as a couple of them are told no, they will move on to the next program to put us on the map
we are not the eclipse or the slammers
4:18,
Good things do happen at community clubs. EDI, SCV, MUS, and WDB all got to experience the "thrill" of getting their butts kicked at regions. Not sure why we all need to open our checkbooks and traipse over to Thwingu to experience that.
Re: the expense, I will say that I was talking to a parent who left my kid's team for BNG, and she said her daughter's team bill was twice what it used to be...and the coach is already setting expectations that it will cost more next year, because the team wants to travel to even farther away places to get its butts kicked.
Shekki
if you look at the rosters of those teams I would hardly call them "community".
Precisely my point, 6:12. BNG brands the rest of us "community clubs" in an attempt to define us as unable to do more than serve our little communities. What I'm trying to say is that many "community clubs" (I'll use quotes from now on to show that it's their term, not mine) are fully competent and capable of developing and attracting strong players. We don't need to send everyone to one club, especially an extremely headstrong one.
Check out the Bangu marketing website. It basically says, "If you're good, play with us. If not, play for a community club." That's total b.s., and yet unknowing parents repeatedly buy into it.
Shekki
Shekki, I suggest you spend some of your anti-Bangu energy on helping your own club get better.
Fact - Community clubs have coaches making just as much as Bangu coaches. In more than one case CCs pay more for their coaches with higher level teams.
Fact - If you look at Bangu team budgets you'll see that the majority of a family's expense comes from indoor training time and travel. If you don't want either don't come to this club. Moreover, I would bet top teams at Woodbury, SCV, Wings, and others have very similar price tags. If they don't, then they are subsidized by either the CC's rec program of lower level traveling teams. Hmm, does that seem more right than what Bangu does?
Fact - there are currently 5 paid directors with Bangu. They each draw roughly $100 per kid (from only the kids they are responsible for) per year. That's $10/month. If you think that's a get rich quick scheme, I've got a bridge to sell you. Thus, there are many, many more highly compensated individuals in CCs than there are in Bangu.
Fact - haters keep the rallying cry alive that Bangu bashes CCs. You continue to completely disrespect families who make a choice and call them all blinded by the Bangu marketing shine. Give people credit for pursuing options for their kids that parents feel are best.
Fact - MU U14 boys get hammered at regionals by a MLS youth program (Crew Jrs). Edina U15 boys get hammered by a MLS youth team (Fire Jrs). And you people think the CC way is the way to address true talent? You have no idea what you're talking about.
426 - please vote with your feet. You have every right to do so. It's this very freedom that has allowed the Bangu program to flourish in numbers in recent years. We're not stopping you from walking to a CC, you shouldn't stop others from walking to Bangu.
Youth soccer is changing with many nationally competitive clubs leading the way across the US with mergers and alliances with professional club. There will always be people who don't believe this is a good option for kids. If these people are in decision making roles in community clubs, their club will always be playing copycat and catch up to clubs who have progressive and aggressive soccer experts.
Keep bashing away. Those in the know, know.
Good luck to SSM tomorrow! Bring home the title!
Shekki,
We're still waiting for you to "show us the money". You seem to know it all but can't tell us how much the financial commitment is.
I know how much it is because I write the checks.
You're all BLOW and no go.
I won't hold my breath waiting to you to post your "facts".
renegade, that is a fantastic post.
Fact: Premier-level player in "CC," as you insist on calling us, three out of state tournaments, trains year round (2x/week indoors in winter), top-level coach, less than $2,000 for the year. Completely unsubsidized by other programs.
I write the checks. How's that compare? We "CC"ers will await your response.
Shekki
My club is growing like crazy, by the way. They don't need my help.
are those the same Edina and MU teams that won the State Cup that Bangu lost in?Funny stuff you write,choosing bits of a big picture to sell your show.
Mn has had teams beaten before and often,the victors from other States were not always Academys just good clubs.
shekki- care to share which team or club? Whats the $2000 pay for?
I don't really want to "bash" Bangu or any club. The Bangu group (in my opinion) bashes the CCs. One thing that should be mentioned is that the Bangu teams that won state cup have been beaten in subsequent matches this summer. State cup is what it is but it looks like at least some of the other teams are progressing over the summer better than the Bangu teams that beat thm early.
11:10 Name one Bangu team that has been beaten after state cup by a non Bangu team. The answer is none. You are fishing and not even coming close to catching a fish. If you are using MYSA premier league as a measuring point the U13 Girls are playing U14, and have not lost to a U13 teams since state cup and the U14 team has only lost to its own U14 white team since state cup, yes they have lost in the U15 premier league but that is a year older. Nice try!!!!!!
13 East 6-2-1 I assume the 2 losses are to non Bangu teams since there is only one in that league 14 Premier team 0-8-2 by any stable rational person that would equate to 8 losses. Please do not start the we are playing up whine Those choices were made by your staff. Live with the outcome and plaese stop making excuses and whining.
Close to $2000 at Wings on a team that has had 4 different Coaches fill in because of Manny's departure. A one practice a week training regiment. Sometimes in Club soccer you get what you pay for and sometimes not.......
Shekki is just playing the fool. (It comes easy to him)
I'm sure he's not including travel cost to the tournaments or hotel and meal expenses at the tournaments.
Where does the team train indoors? In a school gym? Or a dome with decent turf?
Top level coach? "A" license? "B" license?
Don't expect to get a straight answer from this BS artist.
Well said Lou. Shekki is here to wind people up. His club is obviously losing kids to other clubs else he'd not be so petty in his remarks. Else he really cares about all the lost souls who have been coerced into joining clubs like Bangu and wants to bring them back to the light.
People like him are a dime a dozen. Claiming Bangu is not developing players in the right way, then spouting his club strengths which came as a direct copy result of the Bangu model.
As for the MU and Edina comments, they did beat Bangu teams in State Cup. That's not the issue as the Bangu teams would likely have faired as poorly. The issue is about talent consolidation at the older age groups and the need for it in MN. Not to win regional titles, but rather to give top MN atheltes a chance to develop further by competing with and learning from the best this region has to offer.
Good luck with your club Shekki. Develop your younger players well so when your very best find the Thunder Academy (which they will) they will be ready. That's your job.
$2,000 covers club fees, indoor training (in a DOME with TURF), coach with a very impressive record of placing kids in D-1 programs, lots of uniforms, warmups, bags. Travel-related costs not included, as some family members travel with the team and some don't. You BNGs sound shocked that a good soccer expereince can be had for less than $5k.
I'll keep my CC anonymous because it's growing like mad (20% growth this year) and doesn't have room for -- or interest in -- psycho parents and rent-a-players.
Shekki
P.S. Team is 2-0-1 against BNG counterpart in the past year.
Anonymous calls me petty and then writes, "...Develop your younger players well so when your very best find the Thunder Academy (which they will) they will be ready. That's your job." Now THAT's pathetic.
Any they wonder why everyone hates them...
Shekki
Shekki is nothing more than a wannabe who has turned into a hater.
He claims to know all about Bangu but when pressed for facts he has nothing. All he has is BS.
Run along Shekki, let the adults communicate.
Shekki,
If everyone hated them there wouldn't be thousands of players attending their tryouts.
Try again.
Can you post something that has even a shred of truth or fact?
It seems clear that if State Cup (one tournament early in the year) is weighted as the #1 barometer of a soccer club's success (cc or soccer club), than clearly Bangu is dominant across the board and should be congratulated. i have said before however that if i were bangu i would not revel in solely bringing MN kids i brought out of the community back into the community for the purpose beating MN teams and competing and winning in local tournaments at their age group (if they play up a year that's great). i am curious as to how much success the bangu teams have had this summer (in leagues, in state tournaments and out of state) because i haven't heard much and their website is void of its usual promotion.
regional travel is becoming more common for the higher level cc teams and players (WI, IL, SD, ND, IA) so the exclusivity of it for State Cup winners is wearing off. if we all want to be truly honest, the best soccer players in our state (and america) are the ones that can't afford either cc or bangu. bangu has a naturally high financial threshold which is fine and without the scholarships they offer to top players subsidized by their low level teams they would not have access to some portion of their talent. that's not begrudging them because it is smart even if it is just a few players that will make a difference. actually they should probably use them more to attract players to travel to regional events than to pull them from cc teams to play league or Eden Prairie Cup.
for those who know can you clarify, one thing that seems confusing about the thunder announcement? it seems that all u13 and above training will be either in Blaine or Minneapolis. u6-u12 will be spread out to separate academies (North, South, East, West). Is this true? If so, it seems South kids 13 and up are screwed. Kids geographically linked to places like Lakeville, Burnsville, Dakota Rev, Prior Lake, etc. 13 and above would seem to be forced for major travel year round. this doesn't seem logical for total metro recruiting so perhaps it isn't true. Does anyone know?
parent in lakeville
Well put, Parent in Lakeville. If you're going to take all the best players, then take them and go forth (regionally, nationally) and succeed. Sticking around to beat the teams you just raided seems like a waste of time.
With all the best players in Minnesota, you SHOULD be the best here. The fact that you're not competitive regionally tells me you're taking the best players and not doing anything with them.
So, your answer is to cast a wider net to attract even more players, from whom you will extract large sums, but with whom you will do nothing.
Shekki
Shekki,
We're still waiting for you to tell us how much it costs to play on a Bangu team. You seem to know it all.
Please fill us in as you're the "expert".
We need to know the amount, what is included, and what age group you're discussing.
Fill us in if you have a clue.
1. MN is unsuccessful at Regions because MN players are not well-DEVELOPED in their technical development stage of U6-U12 when they are playing at CC's. CC's have some good coaches and some bad coaches. But for the most part, CC's have multisport athletes who aren't good and focus on hockey and basketball after July.
2. Historically, MN gets spanked at regions in young ages and MN has seen most of their success at regions at the older ages. This is because the CC's have not been developing players during the U6-U12 window. In general, MN players just aren't good at U13. Then when they get older, a handful of top players merge onto a select team, develop tactically by top coaches (typically a Bangu coach), and then perform respectably at Regions. So, Thwingu already has the later stages figured out. Now they're going to try to develop dedicated players themselves so they don't have to deal with the mess, damaged goods and hockey scraps that are coming out of the CC's.
3. In general, Thwingu has the best coaching staff. All their coaches aren't perfect. And there are some CC coaches out there who are better. But coach-for-coach, Thwingu easily has the best and most dedicated staff.
4. Most players don't go to Bangu for the coaches. They go to Bangu to play with other players who have equal dedication. Most Bangu players think of football as their primary sport. Therefore, these players don't have to deal with the low dedication levels that many CC players have.
5. Why is MN high school soccer so disgusting to watch? It's because the players aren't very good. It's not because the coaches are bad, as they usually are. It's because the players are bad. The players are bad because HS teams are filled with CC level players. If the players were actually good, like if 11 players on an HS team were good, it wouldn't matter how bad the coach was, the players would still be able to produce something more appealing than what has been put out their for the last many years.
So here's to the young, progressive and dedicated football minds within Thwingu for trying to change and improve the development of MN football players.
Isn't it "futbol"?
It blows me away how the thunder, blunder, winthungu, whatever did not see this coming.
From MYSA:
Sponsor/Partner News
The Minnesota Youth Soccer Association (MYSA) would like its members to know that MYSA has notified the Minnesota Thunder and the Minnesota Lightning that it will not be renewing its current partnership agreements, which expire August 31, 2008. Despite the decision to not renew these agreements, MYSA believes it is important for a link to exist between all of our youth soccer players and the men’s and women’s professional soccer teams in the state and will therefore be looking at new ways for MYSA to work with the Minnesota Thunder and Minnesota Lightning professional soccer teams.
MYSA represents approximately 80,000 youth soccer players and 140 member clubs in the state and can not sponsor an organization, like the Thunder Academy, which treats some of MYSA’s players and clubs differently than the rest.
I claim not to be an expert on BNG's fees. I simply know what the fees are for my kid, and have talked with a parent whose daughter left my "CC" for BNG and is not impressed with the experience (yes, her kid is a "starter") or the value (quality divided by price).
My kid is getting a darn good experience for $2k a year. So, what do YOU pay, oh passionate BNG parent?
Shekki
Ha! There goes the attendance! There's no one left to give free tickets to!
Where in the world will young soccer players go now to watch below-average semi-professional soccer?
Looks like MYSA listened to all the people who cried out in fear of the Thunder stealing all their players. Great illustration of why US Club soccer is the way most top level clubs are going. There is room for both in our state.
As for the Thunder, I know for a fact that their owners already offered to not collect on the $40K of MYSA sponsorship dollars early in the spring. IMO, MYSA sent this out to head off the Thunder breaking off the partnership this fall. Both sides are better off. Hopefully MYSA will honor their claim to still seek out ways to promote pro soccer.
Shekki,
Your kid is a U14...right? You're not as anonymous as you think.
These people could have used a strategist who knows and understands MYSA...
I don't think the ticket thing is an issue with close to a 5% redemption rate, that is not a problem. They will certainly miss the almost $50K "handout" that MYSA used to give them and it just looks bad to have the MN "pro" team not have a solid relationship with an entity that, for now, registers 80,000 players.
Solutions? Dump MYSA and accept the invitation to play in the MPSL and help build it into a viable league.
Holy Cow! What is MYSA doing?
To date Bangu has resisted getting involved in the formation of US Club Soccer Leagues. This might just be the impetus to get them to collaborate with the other clubs in the metro who have approached them to form US Club Soccer Leagues.
Competition is good for business and will be good for youth soccer too.
I for one hope Bangu and the Thunder see the light and go full speed ahead with US Club Soccer League formation.
They could probably get all the fields they need up at NSC.
This could get really interesting.
The youth soccer landscape will never be the same again. MYSA's "only game in town" days are over!
Idiotic decisions included:
They denied USA Cup sanctioning for 2009, so USA Cup will go elsewhere for sanctioning.
The Poretti/Sherrill/Daley administration will leave MYSA in shambles and only administering rec, rec+ and C3 leagues, which is really what they should have been doing all along.
US Club is a great option right now. Kudos to those clubs who could foresee what was going to happen and positioned themselves well...
Maybe, that is just what this state needs. Seems that other states that have other soccer options, leagues have very well developed players. Then MN will advance if our players have more choices in town, US Youth Soccer, US Club, etc. All options their good points just like all clubs have benefits to them.
MYSA's new tagline -
MYSA... Promoting the game of youth soccer, unless the majority of people cry foul and we allow policy change to stifle elite development and then go and pull support from the state's pro team because pro soccer does no benefit for young players, all the while basking in the praise of brown-nosing club directors and presidents who tout our ability to shun the elite and thus rally to our flag of mediocrity.
Wow.
Looks like MYSA just rolled out the red carpet for USCS.
What were they thinking?
Amazing.
I like it, but would suggest the following "friendly amendment..." Can't wait for the 2008 AGM!!!!
MYSA's new tagline -
MYSA... Promoting the game of recreational youth soccer and catering to the egos of neophyte soccer moms and dads who sit on the MYSA YC, unless the majority of people cry foul and we allow policy change to stifle elite development and then go and pull support from the state's pro team because pro soccer does no benefit for young players, all the while basking in the praise of brown-nosing club directors and presidents who tout our ability to shun the elite and thus rally to our flag of mediocrity.
I doubt Thwingu will walk away from MYSA completely.
They will still have their top teams (Blue) compete in MRL or Premier leagues for State Cup purposes.
But it wouldn't surprise me to see them finally accept one of the USCS proposal to get involved in a new league.
I know in the past the Blackhawks tried to get this off the ground but Bangu hedged and this hurt that effort.
Bangu also has resisted the invites from the new NPSL until now but I wouldn't be surprised if this might make them reconsider the offer?
Maybe MYSA is looking for some competition to help them improve their own operation? ;-)
It shouldn't be too long now before they will have some.
Tomass?? we're waiting....
If I read the announcement correctly it says that MYSA will not renew the contract in its current form. I don't think this means they do not support the idea of pro soccer in this state. This statement get me though: MYSA represents approximately 80,000 youth soccer players and 140 member clubs in the state and can not sponsor an organization, like the Thunder Academy, which treats some of MYSA’s players and clubs differently than the rest. They're not sponsoring the Thunder Academy, they're sponsoring the Thunder pro team. The Academy is a new entity. Tough to separate I know. What it comes down to is the incompetence of current MYSA leadership. However, these people in charge are going to garner support from the masses based on the masses trying to latch on to their top players. It's ridiculous but common. MYSA needs men in charge with the balls to say "We believe in pro soccer. We believe MTA, a system tied in with the state's professional team and duplicated by many, many other soccer markets in the US, is the best model for elite player development. If you don't like it, tough."
Umm...My kid is 13 and I'm not anonymous. I am Shekki Weewax.
Shekki
Bummer about MYSA's kneejerk reaction to MTA. I think there's nothing wrong with providing an outlet for the state's top players to assemble, train and compete regionally and nationally against tougher competition. The thing is, I always thought ODP was desgiend to provide that forum. Apparently MYSA messed that up (I'm not an ODP parent, so I don't know), because I suspect that failure has led to a void that MTA feels it can fill. I do have issues with the MTA teams turning around and competing in state, as that seems contrary to the mission of assembling the best and competing against the best. If you assemble the best from the rest, the rest aren't the best anymore.
Nice try Shekki.
Many U14 players are actually 13 years old.
You can run but you can't hide. We know who you are.
1226
Then you go play in MRL and compete in high level tourneys which include State Cup, USYS Region 2 and hopefully Nationals.
wedding day, you bring up a great point. MTA teams were going to play US Club until MYSA went ballistic when they found out. MYSA wants control, and this control forces talented teams to beat up on others. Everyone cries out against elite clubs destroying other teams when the same people need to cry out against MYSA policy as outdated league structure and too stringent play up rules lend to blowouts, blowouts which lead to more angst. It is all such a vicious circle, due in large part to our state association.
For those of us newer bangu parents unaccustomed to the lingo, what does the mysa announcement mean in practical terms. as in if my kid plays on a bangu team between 11 and 14 let's say, where will they play their games next summer (and this fall for that matter). lets say for example my kid is on the u12 girls team (playing as u13) team in the east district this summer (won state cup). is this to say then that there will be no Thunder/bangu teams allowed to compete in MYSA leagues (fall or summer) or State Cup for example? if so, where would this team play?
i am not looking to judge just understand. thanks
The more interesting question would be:
In a merger of clubs, do both clubs keep every existing team competitive status they currently have, or does 1 of the 2 (or both clubs for that matter) lose their teams' competitive status?
not to distract the conversation from all the fun off the field discussions but it looks like there are still plenty of competitive races on the girls side (my daughter) for the top positions for premier spots which should make for a fun couple of weeks actually out watching soccer (and state tournament). my daughter's team plays Burnsville u13c1 this weekend at a tournament and I am curious if anyone has observations about them. they didn't do much at state cup but it looks like they already won their league. is the competition in the south that bad or are they good? (no names please)
The clubs are not actually merging, are going through a name change. BNG is now MTA and the teams will keep their status, all Wings teams are going to be MTW and they will also keep league status. If the clubs actually merged that would be different.
Before all Bangu types get carried away, Thwingu has so far done nothing. Lots of hype an 0-8-2 14premier team. That's the future of elite soccer we are so excited about? Give the shameless self promotion a rest
I'd pay to see the MTA teams forced to play C3. "OK, kids, now you can only use your heads to score the next five goals." It will be interesting to see how the MYSA tries to mess that up.
"We know who you are." What is that supposed to mean? Are you going to T-P my house now? Sheesh. Unfortunately to you, I'm not anyone important...just someone trying to get under everyone's skin. (Success!) Plus, I'm in the phone book. Look under W-E-E-W-A-X.
Shekki
Plus, my kid plays "U"13. Sorry I wasn't more clear about her playing age.
Shekki
shekki - or whatever your name is. Nobody cares, go post somewhere else...
I quite enjoy the Skekki posts, please keep up the great work, The Goo attack dogs are ever at the ready for any slight.
shrekkie - If your so proud of your club why don't you tell us which one it is so we can all come to try outs or maybe your kid didn't make a top Bangu Blue team and your still frustrated because your kid got your genetics and not your spouces.
Grrrrrr I told you so,, the drooling Goober attack dogs are unleashed! It wasn't just Shekki's kid, his 3rd cousin twice removed also had a kid rejected by the Goo crew.
Shekki is quite proud of his imaginary club. What a tool!
2:06 it's spouse's not spouces
MYSA, in its spiteful way will probably tell Wings they are club jumping. Oh wait, maybe Bangu is club jumping. Oh, time to redefine that based on how it affects the sons or daughters of the MYSA leaders, DOC, or whoever else "up there" who thinks they should have special privelages. Time to slap their hands (Thwingu's) and make it hurt." That's how they operate.
210, When you get attacked your suppose to fight back. If you haters would stop we wouldn't have to defend our club and kids. Some people think everything should be fair and equal and why even keep score. We wouldn't want to hurt little susie's feelings. The sad thing is that the parents get more upset than the kids.
Signed:
Attack Dog
206, 229 =idiots.
Signed,
Little Susie and her hater parents.
Congrats to the new Blunder on their fine performance in losing to PDL Cleveland! This is just what you need to spur on your new-fangled silly club! Onward to more Regional and US Open Cup victories!
253- There unhappiness with their life.
I think MYSA did exactly the right thing. How could they support one club , Advertising,game promotion,financial support etc. more than the other members they associate with.
Proof of the conflict created by the merger is the fact that the Thunder used a privledged email list to promote the merger AND the tryout times for the new entity. If MYSA is going to let the Thunder have an email list of all players to promote their tryout dates, they should have to provide all clubs the same list. Truth is nobody wants to get an email from all clubs advertising the new events of each of those clubs, and the Thunder shouldn't have an added advantage in that regard either.
If the Thunder would just drop the youth academys that compete against the rest of the soccer community and concentrate on the 13+ elite program of one team per age group (that wouldn't even play against the balance of the states players) this whole thing could be supported by the ENTIRE soccer community in the state.
Lets hope some compromise can be reached for the good of soccer in MN.
So lets just say that if scv and wdb and hudson joined forces neither club would lose any of their status at all? Just a question.
If SCV is involved, then it really doesn't matter what the rules say...
Once again the term hater being bandied about. Here's a challenge, one of you Goo lovers who hang on every word from your messianic directore write an open letter demanding they stop denigrating other clubs as a promotional tool. When you do that, I'll make it a mission to root out haters everywhere. In other words clean up your own act first!
MYSA makes all their email contact lists available to the public. There was no use of a privileged list.
An add was submitted to the Soccer Times by Bangu advertising the Thunder Academy tryouts. It was pulled at the last minute by the MYSA front office without approval of the board. It was a devious and pre-meditated move. And you think only Bangu people have no moral compass.
Compromise would be great 3:06. Sadly it will only happen with a more soccer savvy MYSA front office.
3:43, please point us to the anti-cc words. Are they on the website?
Burnsville U13 girls are a very good team - new coach, had a good group of players and added a few more quality players this year. They are definitely one of the top teams in their age group.
I was thinking the same. Where are these quotes "denigrating other clubs"?
I'd like to see a specific example not just some post from an anonymous blogger.
Before the bombs begin flying again, stop and consider this:
By canceling or ending the current contract with the "Th" part of "Thwingu," I am guessing they did not want to fork $40k over to the combined organization only to have the money possibly subsidize their club teams. A lot of us would be really p*ssed at that.
If they are gonna potentially hand out a $40k subsidies for a club, I wanna make sure my club gets a $40k subsidy too!
MYSA does NOT make the email list of players avalible to all. The Thunder had the list as a privilege for their promotion of the Thunder and Lightning pro teams only.
Now that the Burnsville parent has asked and answered their own question. Here's my take, The Burnsville team is the best in the south, very physical with above average speed. The south is weak with two u-12 teams and underachieving Lakeville,Eagan and Prior lake teams.
The ones with the deep pockets made this decision and MYSA did a marketing spin so as not to make themselves look bad in front of their ignorant membership. "look, we have protected you from the evil elite soccer system"
The new Thunder ownership had to live with the existing contract that was already in place. They no longer needed the MYSA. IMO
I also wouldn't have signed a new deal with an organization like the MYSA that has failed to publish a annual financial report to it's membership for how many years? Also, look at the leadership - how would the Thunder benefit from working with the MYSA that lacks the foresight to see the changing soccer landscape. MYSA had far more to gain in the long term relationship with MTA then MTA did staying in partnership (lol) with the MYSA.
Tomass is right.
$40,000 a year to these new owners is pocket change.
They made a decision to not have to deal with the bureaucrats and be free to make the right decision for player development and for themselves financially.
Now they are "freed" to pursue US Club Soccer opportunities in near future.
If you think Pro soccer in MN does not need, and in fact is wise to alienate, the largest soccer association in MN. then I question your judgement. Mn soccer needs the Thunder and the Thunder doesn't exist without a broad fan base. The broadest fan base avaliable to them is through MYSA. Fighting ,and competing against the masses is an uphill battle for sure. The Thunder "brand" is just not that strong that it can go it alone without a broadbase of support.
The current model for the Thunder academies is flawed in my opinion. I however do support an elite program to consolodate talent at age 13 and up. JMO
The Kicks flourished without a broad based organization like the MYSA. The owners are smart business people investing in a world sport.
I still do not like their on-field product, but I do see them, in the long term, having a greater impact on the soccer landscape of MN in 5 years than the MYSA has over the past 15 years.
Real soccer people and fans do not need the MYSA. As an earlier poster stated, it will become a Rec Soccer organization or one that caters to only the casual player.
The sad fact is, it didn't have to turn out that way. It really didn't
Wow, Tomass. I have usually felt your comments were one of an educated, level headed true fan of soccer in MN . I don't care what club you are part of I just respected your point of view. I think you know your last posting is missing on many points.
The Kicks were MLS.
"real soccer" fans will produce only a sliver of the gate the Thunder need if they are to be viewed as a good use of the public's entertainment dollar.
Real Soccer people are going to get pretty bored playing against one another as MYSA is the league of choice.
The Club socccer league may catch on to some degree, but it will be a start up in MN. Many bumps in the road are ahead for any start up organization.
MYSA and the Thunder need to work it out, The Thunder should Dump the youth academies and focus on the elite teams. Support, NOT compete against the soccer public, and the Thunder will thrive.
If what you say about the revenue needs of the new ownershipo are true, then they don't need the youth academies for the revenue either. Put the money into improving the Thunder Camps, supporting the community clubs, running coaches clinics, and working to unite the soccer commmunity , not divide it as this program has done. JMO
How many of MYSA youth members/clubs came out to support the Thunder prior to their MTA announcement? A few hundred a game? The Thunder are going to double this with their new fan base (youth club) in a heartbeat. The Thunder don't need MYSA for ticket sales. I agree with Tomass that this will come if the product on the field improves.
Clubs will use Bangu/Wings/MA/MTA as excuses to pull the support of the pro team, support that never existed.
Shame on soccer experts like JC, NC, and many of the YC for letting inept people like CD and SO run the show from the front office. It's nauseating but will eventually be the best thing for MN soccer in the years to come.
Tomass, Usually you have intelligent things to add here which is rare. Tonight you sound like the Bangu people lashing out at others. The new MTA is not elite they have done nothing yet so unless I can declare myself king, they can't call themselves elite with any meaning. Also, there are many who take the opposite view, MYSA has not done enough to curb the excesses of some. Other states with elite soccer in fact teams that easily beat Mn teams have far more oversight by their respective associations.
anon 8:17
Please elaborate on "excesses" and give an example or two.
From what I've seen MYSA will do whatever the member clubs vote for and require them to do.
MYSA is here for the clubs, NOT FOR THE YOUTH. This has been made crystal clear by the current admin. Change is needed but will never come when clubs have the vote. Change will come when people start finding alternatives. US Club is the way to go. The Thunder will organize it and some will come. The others left behind with MYSA have some peace. It will not last as the elite relative to the rest of MYSA will eventually need special consideration. They will migrate to the US Club initiative and so on and so on. There is room for two groups here in MN and the YOUTH will benefit.
Help me out here. An above Bangu poster stated "thousands" of kids came to Bangu tryouts last year. I believe that is over estimated by thousands but I'll let it go for now. The brain trust had the pick of all those players, managed to put together a 14 premier team WHO FAILED TO WIN ONE PREMIER LEAGUE GAME. Now Tomass and others want MYSA, all DOC's, all members and clubs to get behind the MTA That doesn't pass the laugh test. The Bangu backers say the age group is weak, they get all the players according to their own hype, get beaten by 4 CC teams and want all of us to get on board. Everyone run the other way soon!
excuse me, the merger with the elite clubs into the MTA is leveraged in a far greater position for future success at the highest levels than MYSA could ever dream of doing or refused to because of their membership. MYSA had their chance. The MYSA refused to exert the proper leadership for the development of the top players in the state.
The MYSA's two prong approach to development:
1) if you want to change something submit a new rule and see if you can get it passed by the membership.
2) Give total authority to semi-secretive governing bodies of the MYSA so they can make rules that benefit those select few and keep others in line.
When are soccer people going to start or be allowed to make leadership decisions?
The MYSA is not necessarily the league of choice it is the league of "this is all we got"
I wanted change through the MYSA (go back 2-3 years of earlier posts.) I begged for change, but after seeing the true bureaucracy in inaction I have come to realize that change is not going to come from within, but from the outside.
Also the Kicks were not MLS. They were NASL.
The Thunder ownership has greater resources than the ownership of any past professional team in MN (including the Kicks)
tom-ass,
well, first let me on behalf of all of us with sensitive internet security programs thank you for driving all of our protective software nuts with your tom-ass logo.
You also make a perfectly ludicrous argument regarding the so-called MTA (let's see, would that be the Mark's (or Marks' if you like) Treasury Account or Most Tragic Association or perhaps Marginal Track-Record Association?).
Would the Kicks have lost to Cleveland City? I never even heard of Cleveland City soccer before the other day. The entry about the tragic U14P team above is spot on: These guys are not the answer.
Who are you kidding here? Trade MYSA for the gu cronies, Amos (sorry Amos) and what's left of Wings (who get what they deserve)? MYSA has plenty of issues, but this is the equivalent of jumping in bed with a deranged hooker because you have marital issues. I don't know what the answer is, but you're advocating surrender rather than a positive solution. Sorry logo man.
Please please please don't use the words "Thunder" and "Kicks" in the same sentence. Preferably not the same paragraph, post or blog.
A man with great resources owns the Minnesota Timberwolves. So what?
Shekki
Oooh, another bitter, bitter man. Tomass and others are right on the mark here. The possibilities for what MTA can do for the very best MN players leaves MYSA's elite development plans in the dust. And that's OK. MYSA is here for the masses, run by the masses (or by people who appeal to the masses), and can in no way lead adequate development of the elite without nearly all their member clubs in an uproar. MYSA has taken their $40K ball back and left for home thinking the game for MTA is done. That's their choice (if their in this case is a few people making decisions reflecting on the whole MYSA board). It's OK. Here comes US Club with another bouncier ball for MTA to play with. And everyone is happy.
MYSA had their chance and are now grasping at anything to save a bit of face. They wanted to stifle the MTA movement but failed. They are too big, too slow moving, and are responsible for too many people who will not see a direct benefit from the MTA program. They will continue to provide guidance for member clubs interested in what they have to offer while other leagues and organizations with more vision and less stringent policy against the elite will begin to flourish.
The next few years will be interesting. Thanks to all the progressive minds who have worked hard to make MTA happen for us.
There are options, folks. I must say I'm impressed with the teams that have been coming out of BHK and MUS (my kid does not play with either, rather he plays regularly against them). They start with a community core and train them very well, and then when a team takes off, they attract other stronger players. BHK's U15B premier are a great group, with a core of players that has been together for many years. MUS U14Bs have two premier level teams that are very strong. If some club feels their mission is to take the cream of the crop and go play in another sandbox, so be it. Just please leave, though. There will still be plenty of strong players, teams and clubs left here, and frankly, on any given day...
The Thunder doesn't need MYSA to fill the stands. As an MYSA player for 12 years, I didn't go to a single Thunder game.
The Thunder needs beer drinking, tailgating hooligans to fill the stands as avid fans (see Vikings, see Wild, see European football). The Thunder might be able to do this when they get a St. Paul stadium and when they join the MLS. MN Soccer is in trouble if the Thunder need to rely on minivan driving soccer mommies and their toddlers for ticket sales.
While the Thunder lost to a 2nd Division team, they have beaten MLS teams in the past. Funny things happen in football. Grow up will ya.
When they get a stadium? When they join the MLS? bwaaaa hhaaaaaa hhaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa. Now THAT's funny. I love how the dumpy digs in Blaine are being promoted by the Thunder's magnificent PR people as a new stadium.
The Thunder doesn't need MYSA or ANYONE because they ALREADY HAVE beer-drinking tailgating hooligans, and all 50 of them regularly attend each game. I can't verify that they're beer-drinking hooligans, but I figure they must be impaired, because they think they're watching good soccer. At least they got rid of that 7-foot Japanese thug. What a waste of DNA.
Ah, I feel much better now.
When they get a stadium? When they join the MLS? bwaaaa hhaaaaaa hhaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaaaa haaaaaa haaaaaaa haaaaaaa. Now THAT's funny. I love how the dumpy digs in Blaine are being promoted by the Thunder's magnificent PR people as a new stadium.
The Thunder doesn't need MYSA or ANYONE because they ALREADY HAVE beer-drinking tailgating hooligans, and all 50 of them regularly attend each game. I can't verify that they're beer-drinking hooligans, but I figure they must be impaired, because they think they're watching good soccer. At least they got rid of that 7-foot Japanese thug. What a waste of DNA.
Ah, I feel much better now.
Seeing double 12:03? Quit drinking that mix of koolaid and Ripple.
1 of the 50
I'm not sure about anyone else here, but with the current economy and gas prices I would bet against the success of just about any minor league team right now.
People don't have the disposable income they used to, and it will be a long, long time before what disposable income they do have will go towards a drive to Blaine to spend money on minor league soccer tickets and concessions.
Gotta pay those club fees first...
Ripple? Not sure what that is, but I do like Kool-Aid and Ruffles.
All of this talk about SSM playing in State Cup will be a moot point possibly as early as next year and for certain the year after.
It sounds like a done deal that SSM and Thwingu will be accepted into the USSF Academy program.
Once part of that program the age groups in the USSF Academy are not allowed to play in leagues, tournaments etc except against other USSF Academy programs.
Let's save our breath on this issue. SSM and Thwingu will not be competing in State Cup of USYS Regionals in boys age groups U16-U18 in near future.
To the tune of the Go Gos Hey Mickey (in case you can’t figure that out!)
Oh Shekki you’re not fine, hope your kids don’t hear you whine
Hey Shekki, (hey, hey) Hey Shekki
Oh Shekki you’re kinda blind, never had a Regional time?
Hey Shekki (hey, hey) Hey Shekki
Oh Shekki, by the way, my kids a Goo and pays $2K
Hey Shekki (hey, hey) Hey Shekki
Hey Shekki that’s OK, good luck to you and MYSA
Oh Shekki what a pity you don’t understand
That families make a choice and we should be glad they can
Oh Shekki you’re so petty can’t you understand
It’s guys like you Shekki
Who let their hate Shekki, hate Shekki
ruin their life Shekki
roflmao
8:53 that was not the Go-Gos it was Toni Basil I believe. Those little barbs are funnier when you make the correct reference.
Anon 8:34: USSF Academy appears to have only 1 slot open in Mid America Conference. How will both Thingu and SSM get a spot?
8:17 - maybe they can call themselves elite, at least in Minnesota, because the club that forms the backbone of their organization won... errrr... just about every single state cup title this year?
maybe?
Well done, hey Shekki, on the Toni Basil song (same era, wrong artist). I hope you didn't waste too much time thinking of it. The $2k / MYSA rhyme is brilliant, but "Shekki" doesn't rhyme with "petty." How about, "Oh Shekki, you're a Trekky..."
S-H-E...She's-proud-in-powder-blue!
K-K-I...I-hope-she-doesn't-lose-her-roster-spot-as-a-result-of-this-"merger"-and-then-has-to-play-for-a-lowly-CC!
W-EE-W-A-X!
Per Wiki:Ripple is a low-end fortified wine, commonly known as bum wine, wino wine, twist-cap wine or rotgut wine, is any of a class of inexpensive fortified wines that are popular among the poor, homeless, and college students in the United States for the quick inebriation they deliver. I had the pleasure of imbibing this as a young adult. As well as MD 20-20, Annie Green Springs and other high end vintages. I am sure other old-timers (Tomass?) may have partaken as well.
Shekki for president (no, not of Thwingu, or MYSA).
I love the Blunder/Kicks comparison above. That's like comparing a Happy Meal to fine cuisine.
Blunderbust.
10:09 Yes, you chose the criteria of State Cup Champion = Elite Soccer program. You have my agreement, now you need to state clearly that PSA, MUS, Edina, SCV, WDB are elite programs too. You are a typical goober who wants it both ways. Call those programs elite or don't refer to Bangu as elite either way works for educated people.
Go ahead and call them elite. No one ever said they weren't.
USSF advised Thwingu that there will be a pair of clubs accepted when Minnesota is added.
Teams will not travel to Minnesota to play only 1 match so there needs to be 2 teams/clubs that have Academy status. So that's why there will be 2 USSF Academies.
It's all about travel and expenses etc.
Hard to believe SSM & Thwingu are working together on this but they are.
Winning 1 State Cup championship means you have 1 elite team, that doesn't make you an elite club.
Winning 7-8 State Cup Championships each year for 3-4 years is a different animal especially when you look at the additional teams they had playing in semis and final matches that had Bangu teams playing each other.
I guess it's all relative but I'd call winning over half the State Cup championships each year for a few years is elite when compared to the other clubs results.
anon 11:24: thanks for the info, that makes perfect sense
10:37 - what makes the elite MORON is the number of cups won, not the fact that they won one in a single age group.
geesh
Definition of "Elite Moron"
One who believes winning just 1 State Cup Championship makes a club an "elite" club.
How many national titles do they have? 0 none, Blackhawks do, are they "elite" or am I a moron too?
yes, you are a moron. See the above post... perhaps that Blackhawks TEAM was elite but if we're going to talk "club" you better bring a large body of work across a wide range of age groups.
Well, Nike deemed them a Premier Club, so I guess in their eyes they are.
Wow...should stop by more often....we paid about $3400 for an entire year all inclusive (uni's, indoor/outdoor fields, coaching, travel/lodging, food etc) so what is your point...way back in the day we only paid about a $1000 less at a CC. Kid did not like the way they trained or the the way the attitudes of the other players toward training as a team. Kid is happy, playing lots of GOOD soccer and is getting all the training needed. On the plus side they are keeping the powder blue so all is right with the world.
On the flip side, we paid $4300 to be on a Bangu team all inclusive. Kid hated the way Bangu trained and the attitudes of the kids on the team. Kid decided to go back to CC. Paid $2,500 less all inclusive to play at the same level. Kid is happy and all is well with the world. To each his own. Not missing powder blue.
2:19 & 4:18 hopefully summarize what it is all about. There is a club out there for everyone. I doubt 4:18 has any animosity towards 2:19's opinion and I also doubt 2:19 holds any hostility towards 4:18. To each their own.
Not sure if it is the chicken or the egg (which side of pro-bangu vs. con-bangu initiates things), but whatever happened to just a decent respect for another's opinion. You do not have to agree with another's opinions, but they should at least be respected.
418, Doing what makes your kid happy is what it is all about. Bangu Parent
USSF will not give Shattuck an academy designation. T-B-W will get it and have 2 teams at each age group. So 2 games when teams travel.
807,
Sorry, that isn't going to happen.
Thwingu and SSM will both get designated as USSF Academies. Thwingu is pushing for that to happen.
4:38,
Try naive, silly parent. Many gu parents are doing what makes them happy, and they convince their kids this is what's best for them. What the gu people do well is market to parents, and y'all are biting hard on that there hook. Good luck to ya.
Tomass, I've always respected your ability to speak your mind regardless of who it's going to piss off. I agree with you here 100%.
I sent my son to Carleton College. Paid over $35K a year. He worked his hiney off for a B-average, had a great time, met great people, and loves his career working for the State in public policy. Could be President some day.
I sent my daughter to the U of M. Paid under $10K a year. She didn't study too much for straight A's, had a great time, met great people, and will be entering her 3rd year of medical school at MN. Could cure cancer some day.
To each their own.
11:26: amen
From FoxSports.com
ENGLAND BANS TROPHIES IN LEAGUES FOR YOUNGSTERS
LONDON (AP) - England has banned young children from playing for league and cup trophies in soccer in a bid to remove pressure from parents and coaches.
The ruling issued Friday by the Football Association affects under eight-year-olds and is intended to develop their skills on the field.
"It's widely accepted that we need to improve the skills and technique of players in this country," said Trevor Brooking, the former England and West Ham midfielder who is now the FA's director of football development. "At the moment we are not at the same level as other countries.
"In the youngest age groups, there's too much emphasis on winning leagues, often to satisfy parents and coaches. That's what we're looking to change. We need better, more skillful players coming through."
9:31
Amen....Minnesota is in the same boat. Coaches with egos abound.
So you get more skilled players by not keeping score.... I know every kid on a kindergarden inhouse team knows the score at the end of the game.
Very happy to live in the free economy of the USA. Anyone who thinks not giving trophies or keeping official won/loss records will somehow remove the average Americans drive to compete at the highest level is missing the boat on what is inherent to the American society. Winning is prefered.
That said if winning is emphasised at the expense of development the winning will stop. Development creates the Ability for LONG TERM winning. The smart clubs find a way to balance both winning and the development of the players skills.
How many games have we all been to where there are 1 or 2 superstars that really stand out?
On one side, the rest of team and parents are upset because those kids control most of the game and score most of the points. That's not fair to those kids who just want to have "Fun".
On the other side, the superstar kids who thrive on the competition are frustrated when they can't pass the ball to other team mates without them losing it (and nothing against the kid that loses the ball).
How many kids do you know that went out for soccer to have fun and had some of those competitive kids on their team and then never came back the next season because they felt inferior on that team? What a waste.
We played a Northern club team the other night at the U10 level. Our opposing team had one player who ran her heart out, was very competitive, and wound up playing the whole field. We beat that team and you could see the frustration in her eyes. She was too good and too competitive for that team. Again, nothing against the other kids. It wasn't fair to her that she was playing with less skilled players but in the area she is from that club is all there is. It also wasn't fair to her team mates either.
The point here is that this merger is a great thing! Local clubs can focus on having fun, keeping costs down with volunteer coaches, etc. Like many have said, not everyone is that competitive. When a team in a given club gets one of those kids like I mentioned above, they will now have an opportunity to help that player out by directing them down an avenue where they can play competitively. That helps that kid out and also helps the club team by not having one or two of those "Ball Hogs" on their team. Most are not ball hogs but rather just very talented kids.
There are the kids that a very competitive and there are those that just want to have fun. I have three kids and all were at different levels. My oldest was a Wings Premier player, my middle one is a Bangu player, and my youngest is a club soccer player. The two older ones are very competitive and wanted more! I even tried to keep them in club soccer but they were bored and frustrated. My youngest is happy with just having fun in our local club soccer. We are more than pleased with all 3 clubs based on the level of play for each.
Set the politics aside, and look at it from the kids perspective and there is nothing but opportunity. When it comes down to it...kids come out for soccer because they simply want to play soccer. This merger can only help give kids more opportunity if everyone just lets it.
From a financial standpoint, yes there will be a large amount of money invested in this merger. Becuase the primary focus is a more elite and competitive club you can also expect more than a club can offer. Paid and certified coaches that can help the competitive ones improve. Sponsorships to help offset the cost of fees and travel. I know of a number of kids that would love to play at a higher level however the familes simply can't afford it. What a waste! While these kids may not ever play professional or make a living off of the sport the opportunities that the sport can offer are huge for their future. My oldest is already getting calls from colleges left and right simply because she was noticed on a Wings Premier team at a college showcase. You won't get that kind of an oppotunity in most club soccer. If you look at kids who can't afford to play competitive soccer, they certainly aren't going to be able to afford college. If a competitive club can open a door for them like that one can only imagine. If MTA can actually pull off lowering or eliminating club and travel fees for the players that make the team, that is awesome.
For those that are complaining about elite, monopoly clubs, etc. please look at the bigger picture. I suspect that you have not had your kids (if they are competitive) play outside of Minnesota. MN has a hard time competing outside of the state simply because soccer has not developed like many other states. We are so stuck on everyone playing fair and we do so by trying to stick everyone in a single mold. When we do so those people are the first to complain that their kid didn't play enough, or did not get the ball enough, or never had an opportunity to score, etc.
In as polite a way as possible, zip your mouth and be thankful something like this has come along. This will get those kids who hog the ball too much off of your kids team. It will also give those kids the opportunity to play with kids at their own level.
Sounds like a Win-Win to me. Go MTA!
The families that can not afford competitive soccer MAY be able to afford college as they may qualify for plenty of grants.
Anon 3:46 - All good as long as MTA opens it's arms to all competitive comers and doesn't simply stack the rosters with Bangu and Wings players. Based on the club e-mails I've seen, my money is on the later. IMHO, putting a new title on old teams isn't much of an improvement.
anon 433,
The new MTA teams will select the 18 best players for their top teams. Will everyone think the same 18 are the best? No. But the coaches and evaluators will take the 18 players they think are best. The next best 18 will go on the 2nd teams.
They've operated that way in the past and there is no reason they won't in the future.
They want to go to Regionals and win.
Buyer beware. Sure there will be two teams and the top team will arguably include the best 18 at that age group, but the second team will likely not include the second best 18. Kids and parents that don't make the top team will go elsewhere in hope of making a top team in another club. The second MTA teams in an age group may not offer all that is advertised. Just talk to some Bangu "white" team players and parents.
Yeah, the U14G White team will all probably look elsewhere next year. So will the U11G, U15G, U12B, U13B, and all the other White teams who are among the top teams at their respective age groups.
But they will probably "pool" the players and make them commit to the program for a chance to make the top team. That way the players don't have a chance to go anywhere else to play if they don't make the top team because the commitment (and money) is already with this club.
That's outrageous! Having people buy into the club philosophy and structure rather than catering to the club hoppers looking to have their child play on a top team regardless of what that club offers in terms of development. How absurd!
Bangu has had teams play each other in State Cup finals and semi finals many times the past 4-5 years.
It appears in many cases they do have the top 2 teams.
From the outside looking in it appears they are doing well.
I see MYSA has posted their decision about the Thunder sponsorship on their website. Why do they continue to highlight their complete ignorance that professional soccer is a huge plus to Minnesota youth soccer players? So what if club presidents are in an uproar? So what if clubs "lose" players to another soccer opportunity? Isn't MYSA here for Minnesota youth???????? What a bunch of crap. Candace, Shelly, Bob, whoever need to be voted our due to their incompetence and petty vendetta against the Thunder for not being included in the initial MTA planning. It's obvious now why they were not.
I can't believe the Executive Board Youth Council, or whoever else are being represented by the actions of the front office can stand for this. Someone grow a pair over there and reign in the idiots making stupid decisions for our kids. You are all being cast in a poor light because of this and MYSA is losing respect and influence here. You are here for the kids, not the club presidents. Grow up, take charge, and pull your head out of your...
Makes us wish Ian was still involved here.
OMG, I second that 1202!!!!!!!!! It's an absolute disgrace and Mrs Daley has sent MYSA into the dark ages. She was a crisis manager I was told in her past work field. Maybe that's why she's created this mess, so she finally feels capable in the MYSA office.
But good luck getting that changed :-)
Issues like this are why within the next 12-18 months USCS will more than likely get a foothold here in Minnesota.
Once that occurs and the leagues are established there will be far fewer teams registering with MYSA and that will have an impact on their budget and the number of MYSA employees etc.
Until then nothing will change.
Has anyone heard anymore about the Minnesota Premier Soccer League? Are they starting up this fall?
I've heard that will be a USCS league.
No one who knows would consider me an MYSA apologist!!! But, this one I get. The Thunder are no longer just a professional club. Once they entered into the youth CLUB ranks MYSA has no choice. MYSA can't be seen as supporting one club over another. But the bigger question is, why does it really matter?
socmom, it's simple. All MYSA needs to do is EXPLAIN this while also lending there support to professional soccer and committing to find a way to work with the Thunder. I think they want to do this but I don't think it comes across well. Let's hope this is their feeling.
Well, let's start to collect some dots.
1.The US Soccer Federation establishes youth development guidelines, best practices for coaches, and an elite Academy program all based on the European model.
2 West Ham United of the English Premier League partners with the United Soccer League (USL) and establishes the West Ham United Football Academy USA. The USL is owned by Umbro, which is owned by Nike.
3 The Minnesota Thunder, along with other MLS and USL teams begin to form Academy programs with an eye toward youth development.
4 Burnley Football Club, an English First Division team, announced this month that they were exploring a partnership with an American professional team. The Minnesota Thunder and Richmond Kickers are mentioned. Stoke City of the EPR has formed a partnership with the Austin Aztecs, who will begin playing in the USL in 2009. Other such arrangements are rumored.
5 At least one Bangu player has been recruited to play in the USL’s Super Y league after spending a week training in England at West Ham United.
6 Minnesota’s ’92 ODP pool has been invited to train with the Burnley and Thunder coaching staff when that team is in town to play the Thunder.
7 The Thunder Academy has applied for USSF Academy status and the rumor is that both they and Shattuck will gain admission in 2010.
8 MYSA, at the very least, is re-evaluating its relationship with Minnesota’s lone professional team.
These eight points are all facts. I am sure there is a great deal more to unearth, but it seems obvious that there are some very serious changes afoot. I’ll let the rest of you connect the dots.
MYSA has handled this Thunder situation poorly from the beginning.
In reality all they have done is insure that Thwingu will now entertain US Club Soccer leagues for all many of their teams.
My understanding is that the key players on the Bangu board had resisted the US Club Soccer overtures for the last 2-3 years in deference to trying to be good partners with MYSA. At least that's what I was told by one of their board members.
But after this slap in the face to the Thunder the new powers that be from Thunder/Wings/Bangu would be fools not to jump feet first into the Minnesota Premier Soccer League this fall ot next spring.
What do they have to lose at this point?
Ultimately the competition will improve MYSA quality even if it does reduce the number of teams under their umbrella. If they don't improve they will become the state's rec league in a matter of years.
A US Club Soccer league will force them to get better. Monopolies are a thing of the past.
8:38
Just one more fact:
The brand new amazing Thunder swept by lowly Puerto Rico (including a 3-21 drubbing)this weekend. Hey Burnley, maybe you should try to form a partnership with Cleveland City. I heard they are up and coming, too.
This fact, while also incontrivertable, seems to offer a different way to connect the dots. In particular, the Thunder are not very good (that's another fact).
The next bone-headed move by MYSA – they will strip all the Bangu and Wings teams of their league spots and make the MTA teams play C-3.
Mark my words.
By the way...
What ever happened to WingZayta?
Why, after making a big announcement only a few months ago, did the Wings bolt from that idea and join the "dark side"?
Anon 5:31- Clearly, MYSA has some really bone-headed rules / policies.
But, other clubs have to abide by "new teams start at C-3" .
I would hope Thunder / Bangu / Wings have already considered this possibility.
The fact is, if you don't want to be limited by MYSA, and their arbitrary rulings, GET THE HECK OUT WHILE YOU CAN.
anon 5:31,
What we heard from our board is that there will be no issues.
There is only a corporate name change for Wings and Bangu. This isn't a different club just name changes.
Teams will retain status.
Don't let the haters ruin your day.
it seems to me that on the current path, MTA teams u13 and up are just not go to play soccer much in MN beyond state cup. I am guessing these are going to be teams that play the bulk of their games/tournaments/etc. out of state. the youth teams up to 12 are going to play leagues and then MTA will take the best 12 year olds and make them 2 u13 teams and go from there. My only concern is in today's economy, the number of kids and families willing to have a heavy dependence on regional events will shrink. the interesting example will be the u14 premier team (u13 players I believe) that lost state cup and all their premier games (and status). the net result I guess is to play u15c1 and try to re-establish premier status or play MRL using their second place at state cup result which is expensive but probably most likely. this is where I think better teams at good cc with year round training will benefit because they can offer good quality soccer with a MN focus.
for sure, this tryout season will cause the 'tilt' button to go off on this blog
Unless your board is the MYSA, you are only offering an opinion on what they think will happen.
MYSA not to renew its agreements with
Thunder and Lightning
The Minnesota Youth Soccer Association (MYSA) would like its members to know that MYSA has notified the Minnesota Thunder and the Minnesota Lightning that it will not be renewing its current partnership agreements, which expire August 31, 2008. Despite the decision to not renew these agreements, MYSA believes it is important for a link to exist between all of our youth soccer players and the men’s and women’s professional soccer teams in the state and will therefore be looking at new ways for MYSA to work with the Minnesota Thunder and Minnesota Lightning professional soccer teams.
MYSA represents approximately 80,000 youth soccer players and 140 member clubs in the state and can not sponsor an organization, like the Thunder Academy, which treats some of MYSA’s players and clubs differently than the rest.
http://mnyouthsoccer.org/whatsnew/announce.cfm
Spain 1 Germany nil..........All MN docs and coaches should be made to watch a replay of this game. The Spanish Smurfs kept the big Huns chassing like hounds. It was all about superior TECHNIQUE and PASSING. It's time for MN to get a clue and replace the boot and scoot coaches with coaches who can develop PLAYERS.
anon 11:42
Are there ANY coaches in Minnesota who have this ability?
Where do we get these coaches?
Any clubs do a better job of this here in Minnesota than others?
11:42 - World Cup '06......Italy wins - shouldn't we have adopted that style for the last two years? Stifling defense with counters (hmmmm....is it just me, or don't counters usually start with a long direct ball????)?
I second 12:52's comments, who and where are all these coaches that you claim we should have? Have you ever watched UNC play, coached by one of the most succesful college coaches out there? They play a very direct, in your face style.
Most of the top college soccer programs play very direct. Some of the left coast teams play some possession, but are still not exactly playing "pretty" soccer.
could someone out there please explain the difference between "direct soccer", "boot & scoot", "kick & run", etc....? Is there a difference or does it all depend on who's side is playing it?
Isn't it safe to say a well-coached team employs whatever style is needed to exploit the opponent's weaknesses?
It drives me nuts to see teams repeatedly do the same thing over and over again against teams that are "playing" them correctly. A good example is the offsides trap, which several teams (clubs?) rely on. For crying out loud, either put the fastest kid up top and send him/her on a well-timed long ball, or loop the strikers back into the play, send the outside mids to the corners and get numbers into the box. (I'm fairly dumb and know this.)
At a certain point, winning does become all that matters. I doubt many Europeans minded when their sides won boring, ugly, plodding games these past few weeks.
Dagny
it is about exploiting a team's weakness. possession soccer means nothing if you can't make that dangerous pass that unlocks the defense. Be it direct with purpose from your defending third or possession play through the mid and attacking third.
As in boxing, sometimes you have to punch and not just jab when the opponent exposes himself.
The Soccer Awareness Training that WH conducts for EP is the best I have seen in the state. Of course I'm bias ;-)
What you saw at state cup was one dimensional soccer. You didn't see any playmakers.It's time the docs start directing.....let's put more emphasis on technique and passing.Let's emphasize team play and start developing real players.
If we don't have any coaches who can do this than bring in an elite coach and put on a clinic to teach our club coaches.
Consolidating the top athletes isn't the answer unless they are developed into complete players.
OH NO... MYSA DOESN'T SUPPORT THE THUNDER ACADEMY...
boo figgin' hoo. All that means is that it has even more of a change to succeed. I love how this state praises the most diluted age group because "all the games were close." that shows you right there exactly what the understanding of MYSA is.
How bout their decision to peg SSM U18 girls and BTFC U18s in the SEMI??? Two teams that couldn't represented MN with a chance to win regionals, yet one doesn't go. How did that other team do by the way?
yea... I thought so.
Thwingu may not need MYSA, but they don't need MPSL either. If you think MYSA is incompetent, just look who's behind MPSL and that'll make MYSA look like friggin' wizards. Thwingu just needs to do whatever it takes to stick to their vision/goal. Don't compromise with anyone and you'll be fine. I think the biggest mistake they've made so far is trying to please too many people. Just offer an alternative and let it play out.
IllBeRtBack
12:52
Currently MN doesn't have any of these coaches. That's the root cause of why we are mediocre.
The coaches who do the best job attempting to develop players are WH, SW, MA. The rest are strictly one dimensional.
Tomass...Can't agree...our teams are one dimensional.Agree if you are talking top pro teams.
Colleges are trying to get away from DIRECT (advanced boot n scoot). They are looking for PLAYERS but they are hard to find.Clubs simply not taking time to develop them.
Quite funny watching the Spanish Smurfs pass the Huns dizzy.Technique is the name of the game baby..............
Gotta disagree. You play however you need to play to win.
anon 9:05
So we're not developing this type of player anywhere in the USA? That's surprising.
If WH is good at this why don't his club's teams play that type of game?
talking about some older teams. I can tell you no one works on more one touch possession soccer than WH at EP. It is part of his soccer awareness training program.
We don't have enough technically skilled players because the emphasis is on the winning and not the development. Short term desires outweigh long term.
SW???? - maybe with his Coerver training, but not at EHS. That's bootball at its best. Most EP teams I'v seen from U14 up also play a very similar style - very direct.
There is a difference between the men's and women's game as witnessed by the German women dominating the "beautiful" game of Marta and Brazil at the recent World's Cup.
IMO, what is lacking is not coaching, but the individual skills of the players. This comes from hard individual work and a natural sense of creativity. What compounds the problem is the "system" soccer that we play here in the US which can be stifling.
The reason most high schools have to resort to a very direct style is that rarely are there enough skilled players on one team capable of playing a possession style due to the vaired make ups of the teams. Substance (the final score) will always trump Style (pretty soccer). I'm not saying that is the right approach, but an understandable one.
9:05
"The coaches who do the best job attempting to develop players are WH, SW, MA. The rest are strictly one dimensional."
That's about the most short-sighted statement I've seen and there have been many on this string so far. MN isn't blazing any trails in player development by any stretch, but to say that every other coach in the state is not interested in developing players is just plain insulting to those hard working coaches and volunteer parents that that is their focus. Bash the self-promoting coaches and the big namers that spend all their time looking for the next premier team to ride talent with all you want. They put themselves out there and many deserve it. But give some credit to the annonymous coaches working hard whether they are in MTA or the CC's that are doing the right thing working with a smaller talent pool than the soccer hot spots and in an area where hockey is still the king sport and most parents didn't grow up with soccer.
Two things: Often as the CC coaches (some of whom are very good volunteer/parent coaches) develop these players they are pulled from their CC to the for profit clubs (Bangu, Wings, etc.)
Secondly, MA may train "complete players" as well but they win their games playing "boot and scoot"
All clubs are non-profit. Hold the snickering...I know for some, it may be a technicallity. That was a side comment.
I think we are discounting the desires of the players themselves. What about the player that gets correctly developed by the coach ("profit club" or traditional CC) and has progressed beyond the level that the team as a whole can compete at. Sometimes they need to find a grouping of better players to surround themselves with and the "profit clubs" have the resources to bring them together. Good for those players for working hard and want to move to more competitive area. Some may find it in the "CC" but in many cases, that is not much different than the "profit club." Frankly, who cares where they go if they want to find the next level. Coaches and parents should be proud of someone progressing to the next step instead of pissing and moaning that their kid was abandoned and now their team isn't as good. On the plus side, it leaves more room for more playing time for those that could use the experience that wouldn't have gotten it with the "star" kid.
Another side comment...didn't the press release say that the Thunder would have full program details up by yesterday? Anyone know why it isn't up yet?
There are many, many coaches in MN who do a very respectable job of developing players. IMO, the ones in this group who excel at technical teaching are the ones who have had higher level playing experiences and who have the understanding of the game that comes with this experience. It's easy to call out the many names who have been highlighted on this blog, but there are many more out there who do a great job.
As for the MYSA thing - the Thunder don't need them and should move away from that group. Will MYSA try and disallow the MTA teams? Though they may want to I'm not sure they can. If they try I think you'll see some nationwide attention and fireworks.
People think MYSA is the end all be all of youth soccer. They are being left behind by progressive thinkers and clubs. Other state associations are changing, MYSA will eventually but probably when the current admin is done with their power trip.
To the Thunder - US Club may be an option but don't forget that many other states have multiple leagues, leagues that allow participation in State Cup, which US Club does not. Start something else and leave MYSA alone to continue to cater to those who see them as the all-knowing soccer entity in this state.
Oh, I just love youth soccer!
"To the Thunder - US Club may be an option but don't forget that many other states have multiple leagues, leagues that allow participation in State Cup, which US Club does not. Start something else and leave MYSA alone to continue to cater to those who see them as the all-knowing soccer entity in this state."
I would think that the Thunder would actually take advice from people who know what they are talking about!
Unless the brains that attend the AGM change the MYSA rules to allow leagues, it is not going to happen. All you have to do is follow the trail! MYSA is affiliated with USYS, who is affiliated with US Soccer. USYS OWNS the National Championship Series, which includes your local State Cup. If you start up a league, you will not be able to affiliate with MYSA and you will not have access to State Cup. Get it? It is against MYSA rules!!
There was a proposal in front of the AGM about 5 years ago to allow independent leagues. That proposal was laughed at and obviously defeated... The same people are set to launch the biggest competition MYSA has ever had.
Like it or not, the landscape has changed forever...
All you need to do is gain acceptance into MRL which is a MYSA approved league. Play MRL - play State Cup.
Once the USSF Academy program kicks in this will all be a mute point anyway.
Post a Comment