This post has certainly created a lot of interest and I will leave it open for a while longer. The MTA will be an interesting option. Please try to stay on topic.
Other states have multiple leagues because their bylaws/rules allow it.
The state officials of states with independent leagues marvel at how MN does it and they wish they could be like MN. Wonder why? It's called the "Golden Rule". Those with the gold, "RULE"! They also would like all the power and all the money...
How do you change the rules? Show up at the AGM and propose something... and BTW - good luck with that!
Straight from the mail box to you "Influence the Direction of MYSA" by Bob bureaucrat Poretti, excerpts:
"The MYSA rules can be anything the membership wants, as long as they do not conflict with the law, or national or FIFA rules"
"the MYSA does not have many rules but everyone of them was approved by the ignorant membership before it was put in place ( ok I added the ignorant part)
"Remember, before you complain about what the MYSA rules will or will not allow, the rule making process belongs to you, the members! If you think something needs to be changed, submit a proposal. "
soccer people are not making soccer decisions It is a free for all so the leadership doesn't have to lead they can administrate or create policy no one knows about and can not be found in their own manual.
It's not part of the "few laws' (lol) they do have but is part of the State law about organizations reporting their financial statements to their membership. Basically MYSA is not or has been in compliance with the State Law. They do not want people submitting new rules that are against the law but they have no problem being outside of the laws' compliance themselves?
how about the adult ejection code a D-1 where the definition states irresponsible behavior. When you ask what that means they give you a statement that it means anything they want it to mean. When you ask for a copy of the referee's game report so you can see what was written about an ejection, you are told that those are not available to to anyone but the league office staff. So you can be excused from a game, but not be allowed to see what the referee is detailing and accusing you of.
And yes it happened to me and I sure didn't get my money's worth. This is how the MYSA handles it and I don't see any rule that states they can withhold that type of information from me.
They are a sports administration office not a youth soccer organization. And yes I am very biased against an organization that had the ability to put soccer first and has chosen not to for so many years.
Tomass - "no one works on more one touch possession soccer than WH at EP" - dude... seriously... HOW ON EARTH can you make a statement like that? Have you seen EVERY OTHER COACH IN THE STATE run a session? Otherwise this is just your biased opinion being bragadocious (a dane cook original) about a coach you happen to like.
On a totally different note, I can't wait to see how the SSM boys fair at Nationals, this is big time, like them or not. That is an exciting team, and while I will avoid the annoyingly ignorant posts like "they could beat the Thunder" I will say they are one of if not the best youth teams to play in this state, regardless of where they all come from. What a great team, and like him or not personally, what a great job Tim Carter has done with THAT (not speaking for the whole program() group of kids.
I wonder if Carter will call Storlein or Marschak for advice on how to prepare for Nationals? Unless someone can correct me I think they are the only two MN coaches who have been there - I have no clue who coached the Blackhawk team that won it.
DM is not a "MN coach," he won his national title coaching in Ohio South. And something tells me TC wouldn't be calling anyone for advice, least of all someone who quit his staff after less than a year.
Buzz Lagos coached that Blackhawks team and then turned it into the MN Thunder with a couple partners. Those Thunder early years were spent winning or getting very close to winning USISL national titles and then getting to the USL/A-League championship 3 years in a row, unfortunately winning only one.
Rumor has it Marshak didn't like his job there. Basically it was recruiting players away from their home clubs and schools to get them to SSM. And it was high pressure on him from above and on the kids they try to recruit.
Boy, there you have it, someone that speaks for Marshak..Unless you were in the know, stop with the slanderish jibberjabber.
By the way, the Shattuck U17B team just won the US Club Regionals today beating Windy City Pride from Chicago in the finals. And before anyone says US Club isnt the same as USYSA, ah, look how many teams that were in INDY that didnt advance last week from Regionals.
anon 314 - forgive me I have seen plenty here in MN the last 15 years. All no- but I am not aware of any other DOC's training curriculum that contains as much focus.
well, I know DM personally but I don't pretend to speak for him - I can tell you the single most important reason he left SSM is that he wanted to teach (History, not just soccer) and thats why he bailed on SSM for AHA. I hear AHA just gave him a full time teaching contract which locks down one heck of a coach long term for a program that, lets be honest, despite their talent needed a move towards stability like that. I see a lot of jabber on here about "elite" coaches, I wonder if he'd qualify with 6 or 7 state cups in OHIO SOUTH (the caps indicate a clear difference from MINNESOTA) and, as mentioned a National title as well. He's also gained a fast rep as one of the best GK trainers in the state as the BTFC goalkeeper coach and now is an assistant for the Thunder.
I will throw this out there though, just for the heck of it - starting with DM last spring, the girls program (forget the players, we're talking COACHES) has now seen 4 coaches quit. Thats out of 5 total. To me thats almost more alarming than all the players that have left. The coach that replaced DM left town as fast as she could get gone. Again - as we watch the boys conquer the world... whats with the girls?
7:32 - really? same weekend? US Club was 6/28 through 7/1...Region II was 6/20-6/25....and to exaggerate your knowledge, there is no qualification 'to' regionals in US Club. The only way to 'advance' is to write a check.
8:19 - only BTFC team to compete were 15 boys, who lost in the final to Scott Gallagher...so you are correct.
Captain Obvious, I will apologize (there's a first on this string). I misread the dates and will be big enough to admit my mistake...
7:52 - Help us out with your coaches...we can guess at the initials, but debate would be better served with knowing who you are actually referring to. Besides all coaches phones and emails are available on the MYSA website, so we aren't exactly invading their privacy by discussing their relative benefits/skills...
Question regarding Bangu's 2008 summer MYSA league results (girls side). I know they don't put as much emphasis on league as they do tournaments but it seems like a dry year for bangu girls in mysa leagues. I guess they use these to have teams play up for experience but the premier teams haven't been great and the c1 teams haven't either (there are of course exceptions). the idea of playing up whole teams and have them under perform seems dicey. the bangu u11c2 team that plays u12 is a good example where it makes sense. the others don't seem to. clearly there are individual players on those teams that should play up but many of them are outclassed. what is the bangu assessment of this year?
Also would be curious to hear any feedback from Bangu GU14 White parents after their first year skipping MYSA league play in favor of MRL & tournaments only – was it a positive step or anything missed by not participating in MYSA league play?
I love how Thwingu touts itself as a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, as if that means they'll only charge just enough to cover the costs to develop our kids.
Yeah, and Richard Grasso paid himself $190 million to run the (then) non-profit New York Stock Exchange.
Shekki, If you can't afford it then go somewhere else. That's why there are options for everyone. Some people want a Kia and others want a Lexus. It's a great country, eh?
Shekki, thought you gave up on the Thunder/Bangu/MA bitterness. Try not reading the stuff if your so susceptible to the words. Let's wait and see what happens come August in terms of the numbers that MA is able to "brainwash" to come over to the dark side.
Looks like they are presenting options to people. Many, like you, will have no interest in it though unlike you will have some class to not degrade a program that has not even started.
C'mon baby, fight back at me. Keep demonstrating your hate and petty onslaughts to us fellow bloggers. C'mon, I know you can't resist trying to get in the last word. We're all anxiously awaiting the words of wisdom your jealously (which I'm sure you'll try to deny) drives. C'mon...
Wow. Your use of the word "brainwash" only reinforces my fear.
I don't get the Kia/Lexus analogy, though. Kias and Lexuses are already on the market for people to buy. MTA sounds like a new car brand with very slick and very loud salespeople, so maybe that's driving my fear too.
You see, many clubs are already doing great work developing players of all levels (BHK, PSA and WDB are examples). Please don't say the CCs are territorial and trying to protect their players, and then turn around and say MTA is the altruistic organization the top players need to flock to if they want any chance of ever playing semi-professional soccer for a living (well, maybe not for a living, as the Thunder players aren't actually paid, are they?). MTA is led by the biggest group of soccer egos in the state. Egos don't work for a greater good...they work for their own good.
And I'm petty? This coming from a blogger who writes, "C'mon baby, fight back at me."
This IS a great country. I eagerly await your response, loser.
The biggest group of egos in the state - Bellis, Alberti, Moore, Abboud, Cook, Zahl, Herskovitz, Magee, Lagos. Hmmm... I'll take it.
I say it takes egos and ambition to lead a top level program and my kid will benefit from the work that these guys will put in on their own behalf.
And Shekki, people in your club will bash away at this new program - then find a way to try and offer the exact same thing so that your kid's talented teammates won't leave. All you need to do is look at wanna be clubs like MU to see that their "new" programs are the exact same thing the Bangu has been offering for years. In the end the kids benefit from the egos and the replicators. And we all live happily ever after.
Yep, It's a great country. People can pick whichever soccer program they want for their kids. They can pick Edina, PSA, St Croix, Bloomington, Woodbury and if they want to Thwingu. Bangu is the right fit for one of my kids but to be honest the other kid isn't as athletic and fits better on a c1 or c2 team. Do I whine and bitch about a coach because the 2nd kid wasn't good enough to make a premier team??? Of course not, life is too short to whine about that month after month. Sounds like Shekki made his choice (or more likely had his options reduced by an elite club) so he should just quit whining and let folks make the best decision for their own kids.
So Shekki your with Blackhawks! Blackhawks are a club not a CC. Not the same as Woodbury or PSA. Nice Try though. Are you afraid the kids in your program will go to Thunder and that is why you are so bitter and scared.
me thinks that if Shekki's identity was revealed, we would see that somewhere along the way, in his mind, Bangu (and MA) somewhere/somehow done his son/daughter wrong.
451, you could be right or it could be that he is a coach or director of another club and wants to take every chance to bad mouth Thwingu. Could be trying to protect his gravy train.
So, "hey shekki ii," are you the same person as "hey shekki"? If not, please don't team up on me, as it's not fair.
Are admiring or bashing MU for copying you? Sounds like you're a bit ticked that their U14Bs won State Cup (again), and you couldn't get past a weak SCV team.
Shekki, it's too bad that with all of the thousands you save not playing or paying for Bangu you couldn't afford a real vacation to relax, recharge and come up with some original material.
I feel safe in assumming that you were not missed on this blog during your absence.
Are you nuts. Coaches EGOS are the biggest reason why our states soccer is so mediocre.When the coaches ego is his number one priority it's the kids development that suffers.Obviously you've never worn a jock strap. What a dilweed you are.
I am sure glad to see soooooooooo many who are passionate about our game, and willing to take the time to debate it here.
Interesting, though, how so many choose to not let knowledge and/or expertise stop their formation of opinions about others - people and programs.
One thing that I do wonder - once acceptance settles in about MTA, who will become the most hated? Surely there must be a club out there, with Bangu gone (and Wings, SCV, Blackhawks before them gone from the top of the MN soccer world), upon whom the masses can choose to heap their bile.
I choose to simply continue moving in a positive direction in what I do as a coach. Maybe some of you could consider directing some of your energy toward the soccer field - and/or further education in the game. I won't suggest leaving the game as some folks do to those with whom they disagree - I am thrilled that you are all excited about the youth game.
The MTA glass is half full, and the water is rising...
Shekki, str8 up question with no bait. BTW, I'm not i nor ii.
Who in your opinion has done more in recent for the higher level young players than MA? Has any other DOC resigned from a hefty paycheck with a CC to strike out into new territory? Has any DOC battled the Mediocre Youth Soccer Association as much as of late to try and do something progressive in our state for the minority? Has anyone spent the last year trying to push a professional youth development system in our hands? What's your beef with him? He's had success by many's standards everywhere he's been yet you bash him and his program. It can't just be because MA has an apparent ego becuase it's not near as big as many other DOCs (as one poster alluded to above).
I for one am very interested to see where MA leads us all in 5 years. And I don't even have a kid in the game. Just a huge MN soccer fan who loves to see people take chances in search of excellence. That's my business side coming out in case you can't see it.
To MYSA I say grow up or step aside. You want to control a situation of which you have no expertise. You want control but you're about to lose it as you are opening up the door for alternate league options. That's not a bad thing in my book but the current administration is going to leave a legacy of ignorance as the Thunder system is the way the entire US is moving.
I think the whole point of this endeavor is to start grooming future professional and collegiate players.
I was wondering about how such players are groomed abroad.
Are these players groomed in parent-run (parent-populated boards of directors) community clubs where the teams have 3-4 practice/game sessions a week during the season and fewer during the offseason?
Or are these players groomed in other ways.
It is a genuine question. I would be surprised if it is the former, but am curious for feedback. I know professional clubs abroad have youth development systems, and it seems to me to be somewhat like what the Thunder is try to do.
PS, as the above poster, I know collegiate players are not developed abroad. My question pertains to how aspiring professional players are developed abroad.
anon 9:07, Google Manchester United and research how they groom young talent. They start them out with professional training at a much younger age than you might think.
here is what is at issue here at the end of the day. MTA without a doubt will have an opportunity unlike any other organization in MN to provide opportunity and visibility for the absolute cream of the crop of MN players (say the 1-2% that will go beyond youth soccer and play collegiate or advanced soccer). everyone else can still offer it and truly great players are found if they want to be no matter where they are. MTA will be the best choice for this type of player however. But here is the issue. IMO, 95% of all MTA players just aren't that much better than other rec players. MTA (or bangu) is not an academy exclusively built on training and developing excellent youth players. if you skim off the top 5-10% of players, the other 90-95% are really no different than many cc teams and clubs. there is nothing fundamentally wrong with that but lets be honest. in fact, you could argue that the only real skill difference from MTA/Bangu and a cc when you consider all players and teams is that bangu/MTA will have a higher number at the top maybe 5-10% instead of 1-5% and a lower number at the bottom. if bangu/MTA truly were 'for elite player development only' they would be broke (or at least unable to support their current cost structure). it has been said 100 times so i am not saying anything new but if bangu/MTA went out and said, we are only going to have teams compete (from top to bottom) that are truly high standard, top level, regionally competitive teams and offer development (but not teams) for the rest, people would be on board. the perception that the club is for elite players is of course marketing and well done at that. although i am cc coach and parent I commend the entreprise they have created in the time they have. in the hundreds of times i have seen their training events, teams, etc. compete over the years i have seen everything from the great to the mediocre. which frankly is what i see in my local club. the beautiful thing is that the market will tell if this is a good move or bad regardless of what the bloggers say. if parents and kids find it to be a good deal and worth the money and potential hassle to commute, they will do it. if not, they wont and the money will dry up. i can guarantee one thing and that is that tryouts this year will produce a ton of noise and player movement. current bangu players on mediocre teams based in communities with good cc will probably leave MTA and current CC players with access to MTA training without a good team to play on will probably test MTA. let the recruiting begin
10:32 - excellent post. the one key point that I would disagree on is that what MTA will be attempting and how they have conducted themselves over the last few years is no different than any "elite" club across the nation. Eclipse has mutiple teams at many age groups. Some are the best and some are mediocre. Take any good CC team and they may have the top 1-5% that you state, but they also might have some kids who are barely C1. It all depends on how you want to look at things. You will never have the top 16-18 MN players on one team for two reasons.....1)some kids just won't migrate to the top club and 2)no one will ever agree who the top 16-18 players are in the first place.
The other reason 1050 is that even if everyone agrees on who the "top" 16-18 kids are in an age group, many of these kids have egos that will not permit them to play well together as a team. They are so used to being the superstar of their respective team and being treated as such by their club, coach and teammates.
Put these all-stars together on the same side and they all start to look average when compared to each other. Or, in some cases, below average. Then you have to have a coach who can manage all of the kids' egos and (more importantly) the parents egos.
Bangu must be getting most of the top players in some of the age groups. They have had 5-6 times in the last few years where there teams faced each other in State Cup final and more times when they've eliminated each other in semis. This is more than luck in mmy opinion. Unless they don't have the most talent...just the best coaches?
anon 11:20 Uh oh! You've created quite the quandry there for a lot of the Bangu naysayers. Either they have to acknowledge Bangu has consolidated the best 2 teams at an age group or that their coaches have done an outstanding job of training teams that aren't the best and taking them to State Cup semis and finals. It's got to be one or the other, right? Let's see how they try to spin your post. This should be fun. My guess is they'll spin so fast they'll get dizzy! LOL
there is more to results and the mark of the best teams in the state than performance at state cup in april. that said, you are right they have had that occur and in those age groups and in those case for that event they are clearly strongest. however given the disappointments at regionals, maybe they should have only had one team because having 2 is diluting their ability to win outside the state. i am guessing the other states are doing a better job of creating a truly elite team and bringing them to regional as opposed to bangu creating 2 that are strong in state but not out of state
anon 1247 Bangu doesn't split talent equally on their teams. The best 18 are placed on the blue teams and the next best 18 on the white teams. Of course there will always be debate which are the top 18. If you look at the results from State Cup you'll find Bangu beat most of the teams we would expect. (SD,IA,KS, KY etc)But they didn't fare as well against the Illinois, Michigan and Ohio teams with a much larger population to pull from. Some of this is just a matter of larger population and pool of players. Some of it is just that players are still too spread out over 3-4 clubs (particularly on the boys side. as most knowledgeable soccer minds knew going into regions that our U15 & U16 boys would struggle to win even 1 game). We're far ahead of where we were as a state than 5-6 years ago thanks in part to the visionaries who pushed hard to consolidate talent and provide professional training for more players. Let's sit back and give the new MTA program a chance. This just could be exactly what the state needs.
To: Anon 1:00 Re: "We're far ahead of where we were as a state than 5-6 years ago" I think we want to believe that after all the money some of us have spent. But, 5-6 years ago would put us at 2002 / 2003. Here's a list (Soccer Buzz) of the 40 colleges represented by MN recruits (girls)from those years. (I put an * by schools which rostered only a Tsunami Sota player). If we were really “so much farther ahead” I would think our current crops of recruits might reflect that improvement. You can make an argument than more players may be playing D1. But are our players being recruited by much stronger programs?
Air Force,Belmont,Boston College,Brown,Butler, Cal State,Charleston,Chattanooga,Dartmouth*,Drake, Florida,Fordham,Harvard,Houston,Illinois State*, Iowa State*,Kansas*,Loyola,Marshall,McNeese State, Minnesota,Montana,No Illinois,No Iowa,Northwestern* , Northwestern State,Penn State*,Purdue,Quinnipiac,St John's, So Cal,Stony Brook,Tennessee,Texas A&M*,UNC-W, UW-Milwaukee,Valparaiso,Vermont,Wisconsin*
Tsunami Sota was Storlien's team from Minnesota Valley which merged with Bangu to become Bangu Tsunami. That was one of the "blueprints" for success that the Bangu club followed. His "Sota" team played in the national championship 2 consecutive years which was a great accomplishment and really was the beginning of the big push to consolidate talent in Minnesota. Storlien is still a driving force behind that "model" today in his work at Bangu and now with the new MTA entity.
socmom the test will come in 3 years when the first Bangu academy classes will be entering college. We have strong young teams now, 5-6 years ago other than the current U17 Bangu girls we did not. Our current crop of U18's which enters college next fall was formed exactly as Sota was; plucked from the CC's at U16. They did not receive training at younger ages equivalent to what is available now. If you look at results at regions they are much better now than they were 5-6 years ago and beyond. The very fact that the state went around 500 this year and people feel that is disappointing shows we have made progress. Prior to 2002 a 500 record would have been cause for celebration! We can compete with any state except IL and MI, and yes I include OHN and OHS, we have records as good or better than both those states from our state cup champs. Also as far as joining strong programs, remember there is a difference between being recruited by a top 20 program and signing with them. There are a few girls (I know of 3) who had the opportunity but were looking for other things from the school than strength of soccer team. And yes they were offered at 70% or more before someone chimes in on that. Nothing wrong with going to a great soccer school if it suits you academically, geographically etc also. It is also fine if these factors take precedence in the decision. To each her own.
While all of you Thwingui wackos are patting yourselves on the back (try the other hand when you get tired), don't lose sight of the flagship's impressive string of performances this month. By my count, the loss to Atlanta leaves the Sprinkle 1-4-3 this month and rocking out at 7th of 11 teams in the vaunted U-League. Why isn't anyone bragging anymore about how much better they are after spending a bunch of the new owner's money to "upgrade" the talent pool? Please, can a bangu guru intercede to let us know that everything will be ok and that this is just a minor bump in the road?! Two losses to Puerto Rico, and a slide to the bottom half of the table: MTA RULES BABY! Have a nice day. Shekki, I'm here for you, man. BTW IMHO all of the celebrating about the Bangu regional results above sounds curiously like licking wounds rather than serious chest pounding (we see enough here to be able to divine the difference.
Let's see.... 4 teams to regionals. 2 make semifinals and lose 1-0 games, the two that don't make semis are knocked out by the #1 and #4 team in nation. Just awful. And the Lightning leads their W league division.
Sad losers now trashing the Thunder and Lightning because their kids aren't good enough to make a Bangu team. You poor old guys need to get a life instead of whining in here all day. Do you realize how jealous and petty you guys sound? It must suck to be one of you windbags.
Storlien? You talkin Storlien? Isn't he the genius that was handed a three time state champion and then rode them from the top to the bottom in just two years.He screwed that team up so bad they were something like 1 and 6 and shut out 5 times in their last seven games. To make matters worse he's been out coached in five of the games.Forget the excuses. The facts speak for themselves.
Hi, gang. I'm back. I was busy trying to figure out which of my kids wasn't good enough to play for Bangu. One has been hounded for two years, and neither likes the idea of leaving their friends and playing for a club like that. They get much more enjoyment training year-round with great coaches, traveling to great out of state tournaments and beating the superclub every once in awhile.
None of this has any bearing on the fact that the semi-pro teams in this state are garbage. I mean, really. We aspire to that? Puh-lease can we set out sights higher than that?
As a former Thunder season ticket holder (with emphasis on the first adjective), I am horrified by watching the team play and all of the crap about the new academy. Folks, they are not good and not fun to watch. You have to be a moron to blame critiques of their performance on jealousy because someone's kid "could not make a bangu team." Are you bleeping kidding me? The Thunder's futility is sufficient to stand on it's own. It does not require any further vomit-inducing commentary by gubirds. I like the Sprinkle nick-name, which is sounding appropriate these days.
Lets see Bangu Tsunami Stars 1-2 at Regionals. Did anyone see the game vs the Eclipse team that won? 0-2 loss but heard it was close. Eclipse with multiple national and regional pool players. The Stars have never had many regional or national pool players. I am not sure they are better or worse. The bottom line is they don't have the talented players that Eclipse has, but if you were at the game I heard they were close. I agree it should be a close game with SSM next year, but I bet the Stars will finish toward the top of the MWRL and could get an automatic bid.
Lets see Bangu Tsunami Stars 1-2 at Regionals. Did anyone see the game vs the Eclipse team that won? 0-2 loss but heard it was close. Eclipse with multiple national and regional pool players. The Stars have never had many regional or national pool players. I am not sure they are better or worse. The bottom line is they don't have the talented players that Eclipse has, but if you were at the game I heard they were close. I agree it should be a close game with SSM next year, but I bet the Stars will finish toward the top of the MWRL and could get an automatic bid.
5/7/08 8:04 AM
SO you werent at the Eclipse/Stars game then?? Nope, it was all Eclipse, Stars were on there heels for most of the game. Plus, Eclipse had many injuries with starters that did not play. I can tell you, Eclipse was most worried about the Star team more than any other.
From 10:58AM - "While all of you Thwingui wackos are patting yourselves on the back (try the other hand when you get tired), don't lose sight of the flagship's impressive string of performances this month. By my count, the loss to Atlanta leaves the Sprinkle 1-4-3 this month and rocking out at 7th of 11 teams in the vaunted U-League. Why isn't anyone bragging anymore about how much better they are after spending a bunch of the new owner's money to "upgrade" the talent pool? Please, can a bangu guru intercede to let us know that everything will be ok and that this is just a minor bump in the road?! Two losses to Puerto Rico, and a slide to the bottom half of the table: MTA RULES BABY! Have a nice day. Shekki, I'm here for you, man. BTW IMHO all of the celebrating about the Bangu regional results above sounds curiously like licking wounds rather than serious chest pounding (we see enough here to be able to divine the difference."
OK, let me do some math for the haters here. I'll try and type slowly so you can follow.
14 MLS teams, 11 USL First Division teams. Conservative numbers of 25 rostered pros on each team gives us a total of 625 professional soccer players in the US. You may not feel the Thunder are very good in your expert opinions and vast experiences with pro soccer, but the fact still remains that because they are in existence young MN soccer fans get to see some of this country's best soccer players in action in our back yard. Yet haters like you bash away.
Why do you hold such animosity? From your post it's clear. You and others like you are threatened by the inception of MTA and are reaching at anything and everything to try and undermine the initiative. Where in all the MTA info does it say "come to our program because the Thunder pro team is the best"? You know you're on thin ice with any kind of facts or reason so you continue to reach and take shots at Bangu's regional results. If you're truly interested in success at regionals then you'd be in support MTA and the talent consolidation it stands for. Are you from MYSA? You sound like it. Be the White Knight here in MN for pissed off clubs against MTA/Bangu/Wings, then come to regionals next year and be our best friends as our teams represent the state. Pathetic.
You think you have a following of others on this blog who validate your comments. You all are clueless to what is happening on the regional and national scene in terms of elite player development. Clueless. US Soccer is mandating pro team involvement with the youth. European clubs are flocking to the US market to help develop players to seel overseas. College coaches and US scouts are attending the USDA showcases and national league events in droves. State ODP is on it's way out as an identification vehicle. It was never about elite player development. Programs like SSM, MTA, and US Club are the wave of the future, led by some of MN's most progressive and aggressive soccer thinkers. But I don't expect haters to recognize that based on limited experience and ignorance as you wallow in your stagnant pond of MYSA.
I eagerly await your idiotic response based in envy, hate, or whatever.
I was there, first half controlled by Bangu. Second half controlled by Eclipse. Score was 0-0 with 10 minutes left, Bangu started taking chances (needed win) and Eclipse scored a goal with around 7 minutes left and another with under a minute left. Each team had the edge in the half in which they had the wind. The better team won, both teams had injuries and starters out or playing hurt. Part of the game.
10:34, you are completely correct in your assessment of many on this blog and in your observations of how player development is changing in America.
BTW. We just received the new MYSA publication of Soccer Times. In it there are numerous ads from many clubs touting their accomplishments and listing tryout dates.
Two of the ads were particularly interesting. Both Edina and Eden Prairie clubs are openly inviting players from outside their community to tryout for the 2009 season.
Shamelessly recruiting from their fellow CC's - How unspeakably dastardly!
Edina has done so for the past couple of years I believe. Correct me if I am wrong. EP still has the 10% rule of total players from "away" making up their total base. If they go over that amount the city begins charging them for fields or taking away possible field priorities.
Seemed to me just about every club had an ad in the MYSA propaganda mailing. Seems to me that selling ads to clubs for advertising purposes of marketing (i.e. recruiting ) is a cash boom for them?
Read the presidential editorial - does that seem the right way to lead the state's youth soccer organization?
There is nothing wrong with what is being done here. I realize there may have been some sarcasm on the poster's part...but wanted to get this in before people started down the wrong rabbit trail.
"MYSA Policies and Rules Manual
1.3.4.1 PLAYERS BOUND TO MEMBER CLUB ....... b. The open period for registered players who are considering playing for any Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member in the following season begins on August 1of each year (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament – whichever is later). Affiliate Members and Extraterritorial Members, their administrators, board members, coaches (paid or unpaid), parents, independent contractors and/or entities used for purposes of administering tryouts, evaluations or other similar events used to form teams for the following soccer season may not schedule such an event until August 1 at the earliest (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament – whichever is later). Tryouts or evaluations are allowed for U9 and U10 teams once league play is completed since there is no State Tournament for U9 and U10 teams. Advertisements, emails or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations or other similar events by any Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member are not subject to the August 1 restriction."
I have made it a point to be very informed on the recruitment policies/rules-- and the residency rules both on the National level and with EACH of the States.
2:32PM, go cry somewhere else. We need people who can finally take a stand against mediocrity here in Minnesota if we want to give our kids the best possible opportunities to compete against kids from all around the US. Show me a non-arrogant DOC and I'll show you club full of players who are happily playing for the love of the game and have no interest in higher level competition.
10:34-I reviewed the Thunder Academy "flow chart" once posted on RRR / MA blog. I didn't see a plan for college recruitment. Most of the "top" players we've known / played with / against are headed to college soccer or not. Why would the MTA spend so much time and effort developing players in the hope they go straight to professional soccer. This isn't Europe. Does college soccer even exist across the pond?
Always nice to hear from you buddy. BTW: Your math is brilliant. Does that mean that the Thunder are 21st out of 25 professional teams in the US? This would not be so bad, except that losing to Cleveland (not sure if you had them in your fast-moving computations) does seem to wreak some havoc in your Einstein-like efforts to put some perspective on the Thunder's slide to sub-mediocrity. Where does Cleveland City rank?
Shekki, Let's see your team win State Cup. Then you might have something to brag about. Right now you're just another wannabe loser. Until you can win here you won't win anyhwere else...LOSER! Poor little wannabe trying to live out his fantasy thru his poor little daughter. LOSER says it all about this jealous whiner.
All of these words could be used to describe the Sprinkle!
10:47 a sedative is in order, or at least a cutback in your consumption of dainty little iced mocha latte caffeine-laced drinks (might help you with all of your pretty little hand gestures when you talk, too).
Still, you're obviously a bright man with an expansive vocabulary.
it is interesting that some still think that the model followed at bangu is the one that the storlien coached Sota team followed.
That is the model that the club has quite clearly moved away from. the model followed is the one that Abboud (and Niemann and Vilme) started out with at Woodbury.
the old model recruited players from elsewhere and put them together at an older age. the new (and stronger) model has players in a high quality soccer environment at an earlier age, and build them to a strong team. check out the quality of the U13-15 teams on the boys and girls side, and you can clearly see that this plan is working.
can you imagine if woodbury wouldnt have effed up and kicked those guys out? lol
Well then, I like the Storlein model. At least those kids were exposed to different coaching philosophies, styles of play, and technical skills before coming together. The “cradle to grave” model seems to produce little robots unable to play outside their "system" or think creatively. At some point, players have to learn to adapt. If not, they won’t last long at the collegiate level.
It is kind of hard to begin with "home grown" talent from young ages. Eventually, every model would include development of your own kids. But, until you can get U8s through the system to the older ages....you kind of have to get your talent from outside?
I am pretty sure that is the difference you describe between the MA and the Storlien approaches. I would guess that thier actual approaches aren't that much different.....seems pretty elementary to me?
255 I don't follow the point you are trying to make. The top teams in the state from U16-18 are better than from U13-U15. Wouldn't that argue against the MA model?
With the "cradle to grave" approach of developing a team from young to old, what happens if your crop of players doesn't develop athletically or your player just isn't built as an athlete (i.e. they end up slow, or uncoordinated, or overweight, etc.)?
Seems like a lot of resources could be put into developing players technically and tactically, but in the end, athletes will win out, which leads to the other approach of gathering the talent at an older age.
it is all about training quality players from a younger age.
to the guy who thought that there is not much success with the younger bangu teams, well - U13 Bangu vs Bangu sc final, U14 the same, including region champs last year, U15 done very well
boys side, U13 clearly the class of the state, U14 very good and earned MRL premier league, U15 also in MRL premier league
definitely the older ages have done well, too, but if you look at them, they also came from a "train them younger" mentality, while adding more quality players over time.
another thing that cannot go unnoticed is the effect that BTFC has had on many other organizations. several clubs have cranked up their training and competition plans - mostly based upon what bangu and bangu-like teams have done and are doing - and that has created a higher level of competition in the state. that is good for all involved in the game......... unless your kid gets cut, I know :p
11:21 - I agree completely with your last comment. A rising tide raises all ships.....so I guess the Tsunami part of Bangu is an appropriate name for their impact on MN soccer.
Many clubs have been programming "like Bangu" long before Bangu. Give me a break. The difference is the methods involved in recruiting. Several CCs have also considered(years and years ago) combining clubs ala MTA.
Many clubs have been programming "like Bangu" long before Bangu. Give me a break. The difference is the methods involved in recruiting. Several CCs have also considered(years and years ago) combining clubs ala MTA.
3:25/6 - maybe some, but if you reviewed what some of the clubs offered 3 years ago and what they offer now, there are many others who have stepped it up. Even most of the bigger CC clubs have stepped up their off-season training, out of state tournament schedule, and level of league play.
MA or DS philosophy? If you saw the Lightning get lit up the other day six zip you might want to adhere to MA 's philosophy.It was embarrassing to say the least.I believe it was the worst loss in Lightning history.
while some teams have followed the btfc model in the past, there has not been a club in the past 20 years that has been able to find kids who are interested in getting together to play and train like this group. there is often a team here and a team there who take this model, and with the help of a few interested parents, find a good number of capable and interested players to make this type of model work.
NEVER has it been done as a matter of club policy, though, the way bangu has done it.
recruiting, while a part of the model, is by no means a new process. i had kids actively recruited from my club 20+ years ago by blackhawks and st croix, for example. i took heat then for encouraging this for these players, because my club had no programming to suit the kids' needs and/or desires.
as for the commentary about storlien and the lightning vs FCI - it was clear that FCI is a cut above everyone. Has nothing to do with the model - they are as close as there is to a true professional women's team as there is in the country, and among the top handful of teams in the world. I think we are fortunate to have seen them play here, they are quite good, and clearly a cut above the rest of the league.
I don't think you can compare DS and MA. Both work at different age groups. DS has been the one who has promoted talent consolidation at the older age groups in the early 2000s. MA has focused on the 9 to 12 year old development. To my mind they are both among the best in Minnesota at what they do. Find someone for the 13 to 15 age groups, put them with the two already mentioned, and now you have a model to replicate.
No club has done what Bangu has done for soccer in this state and people like DS, MA, and many others involved are to thank. Other DOCs should thank these guys as their (other DOCs) are able to make a better living now that clubs want to compete for players =)
FCI is the third ranked women club team in the world. They have 6 players with full national team experience. They are ranked ahead of the top womens team from the womens EPL. The Lightning started 6 youth players. FCI pays all of its players the Lightning does not even pay one player. The Lightning belong in the W League and next year FCI will lose players to Women's Professional Soccer. FCI has been crushing everyone with the exception of the Lightning's 1-1 tie. FCI has never lost at home and the young ladies from MN had them within 5 minutes of the end. I talked to Danny after the game and he did not make any excuses which if you know him he is not about that at all. If you watched the game you know the talent level is not even close, the experience level not even close. He said to me I hope we make a 3rd playoff app. and get another crack at them.
Interesting discussion. I am intrigued by the reputations that become attached to certain coaches. As a fan of both club and high school soccer (for different reasons), I find that the two environments provide a nice opportunity to assess coaching/teaching quality. I imagine the coaching needs of a high powered/select club team are different than the needs of a high school varsity team. That being said, coaches like Marshak (spelling?) seem to do well in both regards. He does a wonderful job with his club and high school teams. I am more curious about the Herskovitz/Magee phenomena. Clearly they know the game, they played at a high level and I imagine they offer tremendous technical expertise, and they both have done quite well in their club coaching career. They both struggled (never winning the big games etc.) in their careers as high school head coach. At times, their teams at SPA played pretty soccer but they never were able to put it together. It seems that coaching high school (where the emphasis must be on teaching the game to all levels as they are usually not quite the same level as a hand picked select tesm) must emphasize teaching the game, motivating all players and being able to bring all players to a certain level. I would guess that most coaches would look pretty good if they were coaching SSM u-18 or a particular brand of a Bangu team. Obviously, not anyone can do it, but there are many more than just the 5 or 6 who continually get mentioned. High school soccer seems to be a nice arena to judge the 'teaching ability' of a certain coach. I am a bit puzzled by the club superstar who cannot translate it to success in other coaching arenas.
anon 8:56, Danny Storlien has been very successful at both club and HS soccer coaching. He has taken 4-5 teams to State Cup championships and went to national final twice. He has also been successful as a HS coach at Bloomington where his boys team won State "AA" a few years ago. There may be other coaches in Minnesota with a similar resume but off the top of my head no others come to mind. Are there any other coaches who have won a HS State Championship and also coached club teams to State Cup Championships? I'd guess there has to be a few.
SPA under Magee and then Herskovitz played great soccer. It was totally different than normal high school soccer. They might not have been able to achieve the best results given their choice to play the way they played (as opposed to more directly), but I know many spectator parents (and other coaches) who greatly respected what Magee and Herskovitz did there.
Instead of giving them your primary email address, give them that email address that you use to get all your porn and other spam. MTA marketing machine anxiously awaits your email address.
Question about ODP - what does it mean by "A" pool and "B" pool? There are MN girls on both pools for the 1993 team. What happens if you make a pool? What does it mean to be "held over"?
And, no, my daughter is not one of these players. She will be attending later and it is our first time going to the regional camp so we are just curious.
A pool is a notch up from B pool. The eventual region team will be selected from the A pool on the last day of camp. Players can move back and forth between pools during camp. Or they could drop out of a pool or enter one from the "pack". Don't get too wrapped up in it, it is a very inexact science where prior reputation and coach recommendations are as important as camp performance for most of the kids. Tell your daughter to feel good if she makes a pool but not be disappointed if not. There are always players left off that are better players than the ones selected. It is the nature of the beast. Try again next year if it is important to her.
Top ten clubs by what standards ? won/loss records,development programs,cost structure ?
I think some clubs are doing more than others to develop players and teams but believe by listing them I will undoubtedly leave out some good clubs. Heres a try in no particular order.
We're new to the state and we're looking for a club for a Premier/C1 level boy and girl. In general, what are the top 10 clubs, any location, "super club" or "non-super club."
Gathering from Anon648, it looks like almost any larger community in the west and the south metro have good clubs - looks like soccer is pretty good here in MN, so I'm confused why there is so much fussing happening on this blog.
New From PA, Check out the Minnesota team/club rankings at this website to further assist your decision making process: http://www.nationalsoccerranking.com/
PA - With USA Cup this weekend and next week, perfect opportunity to figure out what you are looking for. Call up some clubs that you are looking at, find out who the coach will be next year and if the teams are playing in the Cup and go watch them, talk to parents, players and coaches and see if you like what they have to say and their style of play.
PA - Another great place to look is this website showing Minnesota State Cup results from the past few years. It gives you a good indication of which clubs produce top level teams. http://mnyouthsoccer.org/events/statecup.cfm#result
1:42 - Do you have better option right before tryouts for next year? Please offer it up. Premier league is pretty much over. MRL is on summer break. Premier teams don't play in districts. Where else will you be able to see the most teams in a short amount of time?
Depending on what ages your kids are. I would go watch some age appropriate teams that are playing at the USA Cup. What U level are they currently, maybe someone can give you some teams at that level to watch and see if they are a match. Good Luck! There are some teams at each age level that are better than C1.
8:56 - I think you will see Marshak is one of the rising "new" stars in this state as far as coaching. My daughter played for him at SSM and thought he was one of the best coaches she's ever had. There is a reason SSM lured him up here from Ohio in the first place, he brought a resume with him from Ohio that included multiple state cups, a regional title, a national title, sectional high school titles, was a NCAA DI coach, and he was the DOC of a major club - and if I'm mistaken he's still not yet 30 years old yet. If the rumors are true that AHA gave him full time teaching that is a great investment on their part, because I CAN TELL you as an insider the reason he left SSM was about the desire to teach. I wasn't surprised in the slightest to see the Thunder land him as their keeper coach and know he is still the personal trainer for Cat Parkhill, a reason she chose the U perhaps? That I can't say for sure.
Does he have a high school state championship to his name? No, then again he's only been at AHA one year, and last year they went out of the tourney to 1-0 to a team that eventually lost the title in penalties (Blake), so my guess its a matter of time. Give a coach like him a bunch of athletes, mix in one Olivia Schultz, add a Rachel Hoaglin, who knows. High school is about surrounding one or two thoroughbreds with solid horses.
Funny how the Bangoons are telling "new from PA" to look at State Cup results (and bashing USA Cup). I expect the Bangoons aren't playing at USA Cup...though you can bet they'll be marketing like hell up there.
Not getting a clear picture of where the top 10 clubs are. Seems like a lot of confusion in MN. By the links showing tournament results and rankings, it certainly looks like Bangu Tsunami is the dominant club, but then half the people on here speak poorly of that club. More confusion.
We live in Bloomington and are willing to go anywhere for a club. Bloomington is one of the largest communities, but we haven't heard much about their large soccer club. Any insight?
We just want a snapshot of the top clubs so we can efficiently fill out our calendar with tryout dates since we are new to the state.
Look, everyone here has their favorite club. Mine is Dakota Rev (my kid plays for them and it has been great). I think Bangu is a nice option for very high level play , but a lesser option as you go to their lower level teams JMO. If you live in Bloomington you have several very good options close to you. Eden Prairie, Edina and Burnsville are close, Dakota Rev, Tonka and Wayzata are the next closest (distance). You need to identify what you want and realistically what level your kids play at, then find the clubs listed above who have teams at the levels your kids play at that give them the best opportunity for success (however you define that). Check them all out, including Bangu/Thunder/Wings etc. Bangu gets bashed alot because of the success they have had and many dislike the recruiting tactics they use. They are a great option for some but certainly not all. If you are serious about your kids soccer experience and are new to the area you would be wise to check them out. You also would be smart to look at several of the other above mentioned clubs as they all have done a very nice job developing winning teams and strong players and are typically less costly.
1. Bangu 2. Blackhawks 3. Wings 4. St. Croix Valley 5. Eden Prairie 6. Valley United 7. Woodbury 8. Tonka United 9. Eagan 10. Edina, Dakota Rev, Rochester, Westside, PSA, Lakeville, Mpls United (depending on the age/team)
Rather than rip my rankings, please offer your own.
1. Bangu 2. Blackhawks 3. St. Croix Valley (huge strides) 4. Wings 5. Eden Prairie 6. PSA 7. Edina 8. Mpls United (this will improve) 9. Valley United 10. Eagan
PA- EP as a community club is right there with St. Croix and a shorter drive. In my opinion is better up and down when compared to gender and age groups than Blackhawks, who have made major strides with some teams.
EP, I believe offers better training programs throughout the year than PSA and has a vastly superior DOC.
Wings are being incorporated into the new Thunder Academy program so unless you want to try that route....
IF you have girl players and want to play closer to home you should check out Edina - They have a highly qualified female DOC who does a very good job.
Unfortunately in your own backyard Bloomington's club is a shell of it's former self.
My daughter played at Valley for a few years - it was ok and maybe has improved?? Burnsville might be an option based upon your location.
My personal suggestion would be try Edina, EP or maybe even Burnsville. If your are not happy after the first year you can always look elsewhere.
It's amazing how someone who just moved here from Pennsylvania and who knows nothing about soccer in Minnesota can find this blog. Wow.
Next we'll have the single mom from Woodbury who needs help paying the fees for her top 1% kid. And then we'll get the parent from Eden Prairie who's concerned about a CC's ability to develop his 5-year old who can juggle the ball 1,000 times.
Nice try, Thwingu marketing machine.
Shekki
P.S. MU has a great thing going, and watch out for a little known new club called St. Paul United.
PA....Find a cc. Much cheaper.Your kids will not get any more personal development at a big name club than at a cc.
Hire a personal trainer to work one on one with your kid on developing and improving skill sets. Someone who's played D1 soccer and has a rep as a skilled player.
Get a family membership at a health club (eg Life Time Fitness).Your kid can work out as much as needed at a reasonable cost year around.
The big clubs are over rated and over priced for what you get.
PA, If your child is looking for year round training with other talented players try the Bangu/Thunder/Wings. I guess it all depends on their interest and how serious they are about training. ANON 713 is a foolish to think that you will get just as much personal development at a CC as a big time club. If your child played at a higher level before, I think you might be disappointed if you listen to most of the haters on this blog and pass up looking into a big club.
Perfect representation of the recreational philosophy prevalent in MN. Why has no one yet asked what the age groups are for the kids he is looking to get on teams? Granted, at most age groups...Bangu is probably the best option for most age groups.(unless you are interested in being a day or boarding student at a place with great facilities, quality coaches, and REAL year round (daily) training)
But, there are some good teams/coaches out there depending on the age groups you are talking about. If you are willing to give the ages of your kids, then I am sure you can get more definitive answers.
7:29 writes: "If you're looking for something a little more low key there are several community clubs that do a decent job for most of the kids."
OMG...and the Goonybirds wonder why everyone hates them. That has to be the most pompous and ridiculous thing I've read on this blog, and there have been lots of pompous and ridiculous things written here. I say we all take a collection and rent Thwingu some space in Hudson, so they can establish a domicile in Wisconsin. I for one will not miss them when they take their unbelievable egos, robotic playing style, wacko parents and precocious Mias and Landons and play elsewhere. Good riddance.
Shekki
P.S. To the other Bangoon Idiot, if you google "Minnesota Soccer," this site does not show up. Not sure why a new resident would know to add "blog" to the search string. Nice try, loser.
WeeWee, Run along now and go play in your litter b...uh...sand box. This blog is for adults not little whiners. Even high school kids know how to google.
It's remarkable that a club that piled up those honors also failed to keep their 14P status for next year (losing miserably to a bunch of "low key" options). Very impressive, indeed.
7:29, I didn't believe you were accurate on your State Cup championship counts but you are. I broke down the last 3 years posted on the MYSA website a little more. Here's the breakdown of State Cup titles by club for last 3 years.
Bangu 23 St Croix 3 Plymouth 3 Woodbury 3 Wings 2 Minneapolis United 2 Edina 1 Faribault 1 Valley United 1 Eagan 1 Eden Prairie 1 Blackhawks 1
Hard to believe that much of a gap has developed over the last few years.
Amazing how little Faribault gets 1 team to regionals and wins the thing, and the Bangoons need to send 23 teams to win one. Who is this Fariabult club anyway? Oh yeah. They're SSM, my friend, and they're going to put you out of business.
Shekki, Faribault won the 1 age group at State Cup in which Thwingu didn't have an entry...hmmmm? How did the Faribault girls fare against the Goo Girls at U18?
10:43, Shekki didn't send that post. I did. I assume you're trying to "box" me, but it ain't working. Anyone can play in State Cup, meaning a good draw can get you into a weak bracket, making advancing easy, meaning you only need to win two games to be champions. Look at U15 boys this year, where a good but no way great Edina team played a semifinal against a weak Champlin team and got amazingly lucky against the much better Bangu Blue to win the State Cup. No one in this state thinks Edina is better than Bangu Blue. Probably not even Edina. But on any given day, who knows?
Now, move on to premier league. Here you have the six teams that earned the right to call themselves cream of the crop (you know, the teams you recruit from). Bangu couldn't win 3 out of 10 games against their peers? I mean, really.
Good point regarding the Goober 14 premier situation. I don't see any of their frequent director/contributors to this blog on here bragging about their finely honed skills at putting the best players together there. I've seen some poor teams maintain status over the years. I would hope there is a failsafe that would prevent a team that went ofer from getting a MRL spot. Can you hear the Goober howls if that justice happened?
Don't any of you tools realize the "true U14" Bangu girls team is playing in U15 Premier? The Bangu team that won State Cup at U14 has a winning record in the U15 Premier League. Get a clue folks.
Bangu is most competitive very early in the season ie: State Cup. Why ? easy they train more over the off season and compete in more off season out of state tournaments. As the season progresses any dominance they may have had is muted. As more teams go to year around training,and many more are, you will see Bangu's dominance lessened at the State Cup. I know this is contrary to the MTA predictions, but as other clubs like St Croix, Dakota Rev, EP, Edina,Blackhawks,MU and several others enhance their winter programs they will produce more top teams because as a rule kids would rather play close to home, with their classmates and neighbors as long as they get a quality opportunity . Mom and Dad would love it with $4 gas and more reasonable club fees. MTA is te best thing that ever happened for the CC's. Too big for some, too much travel for others. this gives the CC a great local opportunity.
7:55 I agree with most of your assessment. As the old adage goes..."a rising tide lifts all ships". The CCs have been forced to provide more year round options for their players due to the competitive pressure. This is a plus for all kids who are serious about improving their soccer skills. This new MTA venture will only increase the competitive pressure on all the CCs and they in turn will be forced to improve their product too. Competition is a good thing.
In an attmept to right this sinking ship and get the discussion back to what was probably its original intention of discussing the Thunder's new academy, I'm curious about people's opinions on the leadership of this new venture...
ThunderRec Program - Dave Alberti, MTW Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, North - Brian Pederson, MTN Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, South - Rob Zahl, Interim MTS Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, East - Andy Kaasa, MTE Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, West - Dave Alberti, MTW Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, Urban - Tod Herskovitz, MTU Regional Academy Director
Thunder Juniors Program - Mark Abboud, MTA Technical Director
Girls Elite Development Program - Mark Cook, Chad Moore, MTA Girls Elite Academy Directors
Boys Elite Development Program - Rob Zahl, Tod Herskovitz, MTA Boys Elite Academy Directors
For those that have had actual experience interacting with these coaches, what are your opinions, both positive and negative, on their styles and abilities? Are these the right individuals to be leading this new venture? Who are other coaches that might have been better suited to be in these position? Are there particular clubs that stand to benefit or lose out the most because of MTA? Would anyone like to see Buzz involved in all of this as one of the true soccer visionaries from MN?
anon 7:28 There is a reason the word "clueless" is mentioned often on this blog. It's because most of the posters are "clueless" to the type of fact you pointed out, the top Bangu U14 Girls team is playing at U15 Premier. This is the team that won USYS Regionals last year and State Cup at their true age level again this year. Clueless is as clueless does.
Keep telling yourself, "as the season progresses any dominance they may have had is muted." Eventually even you will believe yourself.
The truth is, good (not great) CCs get an inflated sense of their abilities by beating the bad CCs during the MYSA season. Then they get clobbered the next year at State Cup yet again.
The one thing it does do, is make for interesting conversation on this blog leading up to state cup (the true state championship) because that inflated sense of self carries over into the spring.
728, Lighten up a bit. I don't think all these posters are clueless. Just a bit ignorant as to which teams are playing at each competitive level (playing up etc) and also a bit too eager to jump on the "Bash Bangu" bandwagon.
but for the top teams and the top players, State Cup and Regionals is what matters. That is why Bangu performs well early in the season at State Cup. That is when the players care the most. It's not a product of "more offseason training." And it's not a product of coaching, it's a product of when the PLAYERS care the most (once again, too much emphasis is put on coaches/clubs, it's the players that decide the games).
After State Cup/Regionals, most of those players start caring about ODP Region camp. That's a lot of football for the time period. Players put MYSA league play on the backburner. As a player, I didn't even care about the multiple MYSA State Championships I won.
The previously mentioned CC opinion that Bangu stops developing after State Cup isn't a thorough understanding of the situation. It's the classic opinion of a CC person who doesn't understand the emphasis that top players put on State Cup. I love when you find those CC people out there who have never heard of State Cup when it's the only tournament of the year that really matters.
This is the problem with youth soccer in the US. Win Win Win..What ever happened to Development?? Who cares who wins what in the youth games of today, why doesnt little Jenny and Johnny's parents see the big picture, College and above?? hey, I hope all your little superstars at u13,14,15 etc win win win, maybe they may win the freshman player of the year award when the attend college.
Why is college soccer at the end of the big picture? What is so great about college soccer? If it's a matter of getting a athletic scholarship to open doors for attending college, fair enough.
But what percent of these players that we're developing have the chance to get an athletic scholarship? And if you've been planning from the developmental stage to earn an athletic scholarship to attend college, you've chosen the wrong sport, especially for a Minnesotan. So that's a bunch of mularkey.
Maybe, in developing our young players, no games should matter. We shouldn't try to win any of the tournaments. Competition breeds hatred and greed. Trying to win one meaningful tournament places too much pressure on our players. This is just a bunch of bogus.
Without the goal of winning, what is there to work for? All the soccer scholarship money that is floating around out there at colleges? An MLS contract that so many Minnesotans can get?
For the top players and top teams who have developed further than the underdeveloped damaged goods at U15+, winning State Cup is what matters. The goal of winning State Cup and on to winning Nationals is a great tool for development.
You made a great point! The main goal of any soccer club is to develop players. This is one of the main focuses of the newly named Minnesota Thunder Academy. There will be less emphasis on wins and losses and more on player development. The MTA elite teams will understandably need to place some emphasis on results to compete better on the regional and national scales, but one would hope that the player development is a primary focus as well. For all MTA teams, regardless of competition level, the emphasis is to develop players and make them better than they were the year before. It doesn't mean that all players will become the next best thing, but they will have achieved a personal improvement in their soccer skills. Winning isn't everything in youth sports and MTA is striving to support that ideology.
Winning isn't everything but it's just about the only yardstick used to measure a club's performance at the highest levels. What exactly is the point of developing players if not to showcase their talent at some point? And, the reason college is important is because it continues to be the one consistent venue for players who want to compete at the next level. The USA soccer culture and IQ are not the same as in other parts of the world. Most "good" players here want to go straight to college, unlike other parts of the world where there are more non college options. The Thunder’s apparent lack of understanding on this issue should concern any parent willing to plunk down their money for player development. It’s pretty simply, the Thunder and Lightning rosters are limited. There are many more options, in college, for kids who want to play post high school.
You don't go to college to play football. You go do college to get a degree.
The college soccer season only lasts 10 weeks. D1 programs will have dedicated offseason training (but how many MN players play D1 for 4 years).
If players are just looking to play post high school, join an adult team. I played both college soccer and top division MASL. My MASL team would have slaughtered my college team as it was made up of all the top college players.
I just don't understand why so many parents think we're developing players so they can play a compact season of college football. We're developing players because football is fun, sports are valuable, winning State Cup is fun, and winning the National Championship would be fun.
socmom, Your comments show a complete lack of understanding of the concept of sport.
EPL teams measure the success of their academies by the number of players that they can make their first team or they can sell to other teams. Ask any academy and they couldn't give a horse's arse how many trophies their youth teams win. That's not the point.
Most "good" players' PARENTS want them to go straight to college. They are looking for the meal ticket so they feel validated for shelling out all that cash for private coaches and tons of travel, etc. etc. thanks to our materialistic society and the egos of all the wannabe parents that never made it themselves. There are not any more non-college options around the world than there are here. The same tiny percentage of players make it around the world as here, so don't think we have it all that different.
The dean of my college (in the top 10 research univeristies in the country) put it in this perspective..."if you have the ability to play professional sports and make money at it, get the hell out of my classroom. It will still be here when your career is over." Developing players to be successful later as opposed to now is the point. If State and Regional Cup titles is the means to that end, so be it, but don't for a moment think that it is the measuring stick.
But you also show no understanding of physcial development either. Some athletes don't develop as quickly as others. To toss them out because they don't show promise early is naive and ignorant. That is where I believe the Thunder is trying to go. Keep them in the system, continue to train even the C3 levels with skilled coaches and everyone has fun, and maybe you get lucky and get not only the studs early, but you get the late bloomers too.
the fact of the matter is that most good soccer players in the united states can't afford to play organized soccer. the immigrants and 'poor' community players (especially on the boys side) that gather at your local park would destroy any fancy bangu, ssm, club team, etc. team with a little money and organization. the usa (and certainly MN and the major clubs cc or otherwise) does very little to make soccer affordable to those with limited financial ability. let's not kid ourselves when 95% of all thingwu players are white (girls and boys) that they have wonderful elite soccer players. what they have a the best of the players that can afford it and the backing of the parents with the commitment and means to fund it. i dont begrudge that issue because good for them, but let's be honest here. the best bangu girl or boy wouldn't see the field against 95% of the good soccer teams and clubs across the world. so yes, in MN, for white kids with money that can afford it and with parents that support it, bangu (among others) is a great option. let's not overblow their excellence on any bigger of a scale
The last 2 posts are excellent. Now intelligent football people are on here.
Football is kind of a "country club" sport in this area. The affluent, white kids are the ones that win. Look at the talented U16 Boys group. Look at the players that made the ODP Pool in 2007. All 6 or 7 of them are non-white - and it's a talented 6 or 7 with 2 of them being National level players. Look at the 2 best MN players who get playing time with the MN Thunder, Aaron Paye and Melvin Tarley. Both are non-white who didn't really develop in our youth system.
Certainly on the boys side, the most elite boys are still the "non-country club" type of player. This just goes to show, you truly develop on your own, outside of your club system. Per usual though, parents like to think there clubs and coaches are the answer to developing footballers. It's not. It's the backyard and the park. All of this ranking of coaches and ranking of clubs is a bunch of bull.
It's only futbol in Spanish speaking countries. It's football in England other English speaking countries outside of the US and carribean. Didn't the English invent the game? It's fussball in German, calcio in Italian...shall I go on 2:04. Another quote for you..."It's better to let others believe you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - author unknown
I'm not going to dignify your second statment with a reply.
You're calling "intelligent" a post that concludes that Minnesota soccer discriminates against minorities and the poor? Really? All the more reason to boycott the MYSA and support Thwingu, because at Thwingu the rich white kids will financially support the poor black kids and keep the bench nice and dry for them when they come off at halftime.
Shekki
P.S. Most of the non-white boys are at least 2-3 years older than they say they are.
While growing up, my dad used to think he was hip amongst his clueless soccerdads by using the word "futbol" in some kind of broken Spanish accent. It was so dumb. I'd be like, "Dad, why are you speaking in half English, or I mean, half Ingles?"
Some things never change. There is no hope for soccermoms and soccerdads out around here.
Minnesota doesn't develop players because we don't have quality coaches.In Minnesota soccer should be your last choice of sports.Minnesota is still in the Dark Ages when it comes to soccer.Sorry but that's just the way it is.
Shekki, You've shown the blogosphere your true "racist" colors. Go away and stay away. There's no place for your kind in our soccer community. Your racist post said it all.
mr. curiousity is right. Ignore the racist ranter. He's just looking for attention. We don't need bigots on this blog. He has shown us his colors and we don't like them.
I think there are a lot of strong football coaches in MN. It seems to me like the problem lies in the clueless parents out there who can't relate to their young football players. When half the parents out there think it's "futbol" instead of "football," that's a problem.
Parents in other countries know the game and talk intelligently about the game at the dinner table. In MN, the same thing happens with hockey families. In MN, players get home from soccer practice and go toss the baseball around with their dad. This is why so many of the non-white players dominate MN Boys football. Their dads kick the football around with them rather than stopping slap shots. In MN, families wake up on Sunday and listen to Terry Bradshaw. In Europe, they wake up on Sundays and watch Cristiano.
It's not the coaches' fault. It's not really the players' fault. It's the fault of the culture and the clueless parents.
I don't think Shekki is a racist. He's just trying to get under your skin, and I think he is doing a masterful job of it. Racism goes both ways. Here are thoughts from today...none of which were written by Shekki:
"the immigrants and 'poor' community players (especially on the boys side) that gather at your local park would destroy any fancy bangu, ssm, club team, etc. team with a little money and organization." (a little anti-white racism from anonymous, 12:58pm)
"let's not kid ourselves when 95% of all thingwu players are white (girls and boys) that they have wonderful elite soccer players. (more anti-white venom from anonymous, 12:58pm)
"the best bangu girl or boy wouldn't see the field against 95% of the good soccer teams and clubs across the world." (still more hate from anonymous, 12:58pm)
"so yes, in MN, for white kids with money that can afford it and with parents that support it, bangu (among others) is a great option." (a little anti-rich racism from anonymous, 12:58pm)
"The affluent, white kids are the ones that win." (CC person, 1:57pm)
"the most elite boys are still the "non-country club" type of player." (CC person, 1:57pm)
"Bangu teamed with Wings to form MTA, giving them a presence they couldn't establish on their own in the western suburbs, from where the new MTA will aggressively recruit rich white kids with limited skills to subsidize the poor non-white kids." (OK, I made that one up.)
According to 2:37, I am SUCH a clueless dad who is SO BAD for soccer. As a youngster, I called them "shoes." As a teenager, I wore "cleats." With several children now playing competitive soccer, I thought I was hip when I started calling them "boots." Imagine my shock when my kid comes home from training calling them "kicks" (the newest, hippest term from across the pond). The HORROR! I'm 42 and still using the wrong term! I'm not fit to be around the soccer field...er, the PITCH!
corrected According to 3:36, I am SUCH a clueless dad who is SO BAD for soccer. As a youngster, I called them "shoes." As a teenager, I wore "cleats." With several children now playing competitive soccer, I thought I was hip when I started calling them "boots." Imagine my shock when my kid comes home from training calling them "kicks" (the newest, hippest term from across the pond). The HORROR! I'm 42 and still using the wrong term! I'm not fit to be around the soccer field...er, the PITCH!
1,754 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 1754 Newer› Newest»Playing MRL is quite different than starting your own league and then playing state cup.
How do other states get more than 1 league sanctioned by USYS?
Why is it a monopoly here in Minnesota?
Has anyone seriously pursued this through USYS?
10:15
Full program details should be up on the web sites by this afteroon. I called the Thunder Office and they are working on getting it published.
Other states have multiple leagues because their bylaws/rules allow it.
The state officials of states with independent leagues marvel at how MN does it and they wish they could be like MN. Wonder why? It's called the "Golden Rule". Those with the gold, "RULE"! They also would like all the power and all the money...
How do you change the rules? Show up at the AGM and propose something... and BTW - good luck with that!
1142 is right. All this would turn into is an ongoing payday for the usual suspects.
For those of you who want to go to MPSL, have at it.
Straight from the mail box to you "Influence the Direction of MYSA" by Bob bureaucrat Poretti, excerpts:
"The MYSA rules can be anything the membership wants, as long as they do not conflict with the law, or national or FIFA rules"
"the MYSA does not have many rules but everyone of them was approved by the ignorant membership before it was put in place ( ok I added the ignorant part)
"Remember, before you complain about what the MYSA rules will or will not allow, the rule making process belongs to you, the members! If you think something needs to be changed, submit a proposal. "
soccer people are not making soccer decisions
It is a free for all so the leadership doesn't have to lead they can administrate or create policy no one knows about and can not be found in their own manual.
It's not part of the "few laws' (lol) they do have but is part of the State law about organizations reporting their financial statements to their membership. Basically MYSA is not or has been in compliance with the State Law. They do not want people submitting new rules that are against the law but they have no problem being outside of the laws' compliance themselves?
how about the adult ejection code a D-1 where the definition states irresponsible behavior. When you ask what that means they give you a statement that it means anything they want it to mean. When you ask for a copy of the referee's game report so you can see what was written about an ejection, you are told that those are not available to to anyone but the league office staff. So you can be excused from a game, but not be allowed to see what the referee is detailing and accusing you of.
And yes it happened to me and I sure didn't get my money's worth. This is how the MYSA handles it and I don't see any rule that states they can withhold that type of information from me.
They are a sports administration office not a youth soccer organization. And yes I am very biased against an organization that had the ability to put soccer first and has chosen not to for so many years.
Tomass - "no one works on more one touch possession soccer than WH at EP" - dude... seriously... HOW ON EARTH can you make a statement like that? Have you seen EVERY OTHER COACH IN THE STATE run a session? Otherwise this is just your biased opinion being bragadocious (a dane cook original) about a coach you happen to like.
On a totally different note, I can't wait to see how the SSM boys fair at Nationals, this is big time, like them or not. That is an exciting team, and while I will avoid the annoyingly ignorant posts like "they could beat the Thunder" I will say they are one of if not the best youth teams to play in this state, regardless of where they all come from. What a great team, and like him or not personally, what a great job Tim Carter has done with THAT (not speaking for the whole program() group of kids.
I wonder if Carter will call Storlein or Marschak for advice on how to prepare for Nationals? Unless someone can correct me I think they are the only two MN coaches who have been there - I have no clue who coached the Blackhawk team that won it.
DM is not a "MN coach," he won his national title coaching in Ohio South. And something tells me TC wouldn't be calling anyone for advice, least of all someone who quit his staff after less than a year.
Buzz Lagos coached that Blackhawks team and then turned it into the MN Thunder with a couple partners. Those Thunder early years were spent winning or getting very close to winning USISL national titles and then getting to the USL/A-League championship 3 years in a row, unfortunately winning only one.
Rumor has it Marshak didn't like his job there. Basically it was recruiting players away from their home clubs and schools to get them to SSM.
And it was high pressure on him from above and on the kids they try to recruit.
Boy, there you have it, someone that speaks for Marshak..Unless you were in the know, stop with the slanderish jibberjabber.
By the way, the Shattuck U17B team just won the US Club Regionals today beating Windy City Pride from Chicago in the finals. And before anyone says US Club isnt the same as USYSA, ah, look how many teams that were in INDY that didnt advance last week from Regionals.
anon 314 - forgive me I have seen plenty here in MN the last 15 years. All no- but I am not aware of any other DOC's training curriculum that contains as much focus.
3:57-- If you thought that the SSM recruiting was high pressure, you better hope your kid isn't a blue chip recruit for a Division 1 program.
well, I know DM personally but I don't pretend to speak for him - I can tell you the single most important reason he left SSM is that he wanted to teach (History, not just soccer) and thats why he bailed on SSM for AHA. I hear AHA just gave him a full time teaching contract which locks down one heck of a coach long term for a program that, lets be honest, despite their talent needed a move towards stability like that. I see a lot of jabber on here about "elite" coaches, I wonder if he'd qualify with 6 or 7 state cups in OHIO SOUTH (the caps indicate a clear difference from MINNESOTA) and, as mentioned a National title as well. He's also gained a fast rep as one of the best GK trainers in the state as the BTFC goalkeeper coach and now is an assistant for the Thunder.
I will throw this out there though, just for the heck of it - starting with DM last spring, the girls program (forget the players, we're talking COACHES) has now seen 4 coaches quit. Thats out of 5 total. To me thats almost more alarming than all the players that have left. The coach that replaced DM left town as fast as she could get gone. Again - as we watch the boys conquer the world... whats with the girls?
Not many are willing to deal with the little general's attitude.
anon 5:15 - there were zero teams at U17 Club Regional that even participated in the Region II Championships. Not sure what you are looking at...
11:59
Brilliant deduction...they were the same weekend...thank you captain of the obvious...
I think 5:15's statment meant to be didn't advance "to" Regionals, not "from"...
How about other great trainer/coaches like JK, SB, MB, LK, JS, and NK?
Competition at the US Club Regional must have been OK as zero BTFC teams won their divisions.
7:32 - really? same weekend? US Club was 6/28 through 7/1...Region II was 6/20-6/25....and to exaggerate your knowledge, there is no qualification 'to' regionals in US Club. The only way to 'advance' is to write a check.
8:19 - only BTFC team to compete were 15 boys, who lost in the final to Scott Gallagher...so you are correct.
Sincerely,
Captain Obvious
Actually the U12, 14 White, 14 Green, 16 Blue and 17 Select all competed. U14 White lost in the final. And yes it is a weaker event.
Captain Obvious,
I will apologize (there's a first on this string). I misread the dates and will be big enough to admit my mistake...
7:52 - Help us out with your coaches...we can guess at the initials, but debate would be better served with knowing who you are actually referring to. Besides all coaches phones and emails are available on the MYSA website, so we aren't exactly invading their privacy by discussing their relative benefits/skills...
Question regarding Bangu's 2008 summer MYSA league results (girls side). I know they don't put as much emphasis on league as they do tournaments but it seems like a dry year for bangu girls in mysa leagues. I guess they use these to have teams play up for experience but the premier teams haven't been great and the c1 teams haven't either (there are of course exceptions). the idea of playing up whole teams and have them under perform seems dicey. the bangu u11c2 team that plays u12 is a good example where it makes sense. the others don't seem to. clearly there are individual players on those teams that should play up but many of them are outclassed. what is the bangu assessment of this year?
Teams are at a good competitive level if they are about .500. If they are either way below or above it's time to look for alternatives.
Also would be curious to hear any feedback from Bangu GU14 White parents after their first year skipping MYSA league play in favor of MRL & tournaments only – was it a positive step or anything missed by not participating in MYSA league play?
As I was reading through MA's propaganda on the Thunder site, I suddenly felt an ugly taste in my mouth, and then realized I almost puked.
Sending my kid to the Thunder to get better is like me attending the Blatz school of beer-making.
Shekki
I love how Thwingu touts itself as a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization, as if that means they'll only charge just enough to cover the costs to develop our kids.
Yeah, and Richard Grasso paid himself $190 million to run the (then) non-profit New York Stock Exchange.
Shekki (back from vaca)
Shekki,
If you can't afford it then go somewhere else.
That's why there are options for everyone.
Some people want a Kia and others want a Lexus.
It's a great country, eh?
Shekki, thought you gave up on the Thunder/Bangu/MA bitterness. Try not reading the stuff if your so susceptible to the words. Let's wait and see what happens come August in terms of the numbers that MA is able to "brainwash" to come over to the dark side.
Looks like they are presenting options to people. Many, like you, will have no interest in it though unlike you will have some class to not degrade a program that has not even started.
C'mon baby, fight back at me. Keep demonstrating your hate and petty onslaughts to us fellow bloggers. C'mon, I know you can't resist trying to get in the last word. We're all anxiously awaiting the words of wisdom your jealously (which I'm sure you'll try to deny) drives. C'mon...
Wow. Your use of the word "brainwash" only reinforces my fear.
I don't get the Kia/Lexus analogy, though. Kias and Lexuses are already on the market for people to buy. MTA sounds like a new car brand with very slick and very loud salespeople, so maybe that's driving my fear too.
You see, many clubs are already doing great work developing players of all levels (BHK, PSA and WDB are examples). Please don't say the CCs are territorial and trying to protect their players, and then turn around and say MTA is the altruistic organization the top players need to flock to if they want any chance of ever playing semi-professional soccer for a living (well, maybe not for a living, as the Thunder players aren't actually paid, are they?). MTA is led by the biggest group of soccer egos in the state. Egos don't work for a greater good...they work for their own good.
And I'm petty? This coming from a blogger who writes, "C'mon baby, fight back at me."
This IS a great country. I eagerly await your response, loser.
Shekki
The biggest group of egos in the state - Bellis, Alberti, Moore, Abboud, Cook, Zahl, Herskovitz, Magee, Lagos. Hmmm... I'll take it.
I say it takes egos and ambition to lead a top level program and my kid will benefit from the work that these guys will put in on their own behalf.
And Shekki, people in your club will bash away at this new program - then find a way to try and offer the exact same thing so that your kid's talented teammates won't leave. All you need to do is look at wanna be clubs like MU to see that their "new" programs are the exact same thing the Bangu has been offering for years. In the end the kids benefit from the egos and the replicators. And we all live happily ever after.
Yep,
It's a great country.
People can pick whichever soccer program they want for their kids.
They can pick Edina, PSA, St Croix, Bloomington, Woodbury and if they want to Thwingu.
Bangu is the right fit for one of my kids but to be honest the other kid isn't as athletic and fits better on a c1 or c2 team. Do I whine and bitch about a coach because the 2nd kid wasn't good enough to make a premier team??? Of course not, life is too short to whine about that month after month.
Sounds like Shekki made his choice (or more likely had his options reduced by an elite club) so he should just quit whining and let folks make the best decision for their own kids.
So Shekki your with Blackhawks! Blackhawks are a club not a CC. Not the same as Woodbury or PSA. Nice Try though. Are you afraid the kids in your program will go to Thunder and that is why you are so bitter and scared.
me thinks that if Shekki's identity was revealed, we would see that somewhere along the way, in his mind, Bangu (and MA) somewhere/somehow done his son/daughter wrong.
451, you could be right or it could be that he is a coach or director of another club and wants to take every chance to bad mouth Thwingu. Could be trying to protect his gravy train.
So, "hey shekki ii," are you the same person as "hey shekki"? If not, please don't team up on me, as it's not fair.
Are admiring or bashing MU for copying you? Sounds like you're a bit ticked that their U14Bs won State Cup (again), and you couldn't get past a weak SCV team.
Shekki
wrong, wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Shekki
As, I confess, it is my nature's plague
To spy into abuses, and oft my jealousy
Shapes faults that are not.
Shekki, it's too bad that with all of the thousands you save not playing or paying for Bangu you couldn't afford a real vacation to relax, recharge and come up with some original material.
I feel safe in assumming that you were not missed on this blog during your absence.
I love another spoon stirring the pot. LOL
churn, baby churn, ....blogger inferno
4:46
Are you nuts. Coaches EGOS are the biggest reason why our states soccer is so mediocre.When the coaches ego is his number one priority it's the kids development that suffers.Obviously you've never worn a jock strap. What a dilweed you are.
I am sure glad to see soooooooooo many who are passionate about our game, and willing to take the time to debate it here.
Interesting, though, how so many choose to not let knowledge and/or expertise stop their formation of opinions about others - people and programs.
One thing that I do wonder - once acceptance settles in about MTA, who will become the most hated? Surely there must be a club out there, with Bangu gone (and Wings, SCV, Blackhawks before them gone from the top of the MN soccer world), upon whom the masses can choose to heap their bile.
I choose to simply continue moving in a positive direction in what I do as a coach. Maybe some of you could consider directing some of your energy toward the soccer field - and/or further education in the game. I won't suggest leaving the game as some folks do to those with whom they disagree - I am thrilled that you are all excited about the youth game.
The MTA glass is half full, and the water is rising...
xxxooo
EBAT
(enjoys being a target :~)
Shekki, str8 up question with no bait. BTW, I'm not i nor ii.
Who in your opinion has done more in recent for the higher level young players than MA? Has any other DOC resigned from a hefty paycheck with a CC to strike out into new territory? Has any DOC battled the Mediocre Youth Soccer Association as much as of late to try and do something progressive in our state for the minority? Has anyone spent the last year trying to push a professional youth development system in our hands? What's your beef with him? He's had success by many's standards everywhere he's been yet you bash him and his program. It can't just be because MA has an apparent ego becuase it's not near as big as many other DOCs (as one poster alluded to above).
I for one am very interested to see where MA leads us all in 5 years. And I don't even have a kid in the game. Just a huge MN soccer fan who loves to see people take chances in search of excellence. That's my business side coming out in case you can't see it.
To MYSA I say grow up or step aside. You want to control a situation of which you have no expertise. You want control but you're about to lose it as you are opening up the door for alternate league options. That's not a bad thing in my book but the current administration is going to leave a legacy of ignorance as the Thunder system is the way the entire US is moving.
Just some thoughts from a nice night at Caribou.
Too bad our friends up on the north shore didn't get into this deal...they could have called it Thwingitchigu.
hahaha! or, if the Wings and Bangu clubs merged they could have called them Minnesota's long overdue super club.
anon 10:20
Your true colors are showing...and it isn't pretty.
You're obviously green with envy.
or bangu could have stayed by themselves and just changed their name to idiots. I like that, and I have some logo suggestions, too!
I think the whole point of this endeavor is to start grooming future professional and collegiate players.
I was wondering about how such players are groomed abroad.
Are these players groomed in parent-run (parent-populated boards of directors) community clubs where the teams have 3-4 practice/game sessions a week during the season and fewer during the offseason?
Or are these players groomed in other ways.
It is a genuine question. I would be surprised if it is the former, but am curious for feedback. I know professional clubs abroad have youth development systems, and it seems to me to be somewhat like what the Thunder is try to do.
PS, as the above poster, I know collegiate players are not developed abroad. My question pertains to how aspiring professional players are developed abroad.
anon 9:07,
Google Manchester United and research how they groom young talent. They start them out with professional training at a much younger age than you might think.
here is what is at issue here at the end of the day. MTA without a doubt will have an opportunity unlike any other organization in MN to provide opportunity and visibility for the absolute cream of the crop of MN players (say the 1-2% that will go beyond youth soccer and play collegiate or advanced soccer). everyone else can still offer it and truly great players are found if they want to be no matter where they are. MTA will be the best choice for this type of player however. But here is the issue. IMO, 95% of all MTA players just aren't that much better than other rec players. MTA (or bangu) is not an academy exclusively built on training and developing excellent youth players. if you skim off the top 5-10% of players, the other 90-95% are really no different than many cc teams and clubs. there is nothing fundamentally wrong with that but lets be honest. in fact, you could argue that the only real skill difference from MTA/Bangu and a cc when you consider all players and teams is that bangu/MTA will have a higher number at the top maybe 5-10% instead of 1-5% and a lower number at the bottom. if bangu/MTA truly were 'for elite player development only' they would be broke (or at least unable to support their current cost structure). it has been said 100 times so i am not saying anything new but if bangu/MTA went out and said, we are only going to have teams compete (from top to bottom) that are truly high standard, top level, regionally competitive teams and offer development (but not teams) for the rest, people would be on board. the perception that the club is for elite players is of course marketing and well done at that. although i am cc coach and parent I commend the entreprise they have created in the time they have. in the hundreds of times i have seen their training events, teams, etc. compete over the years i have seen everything from the great to the mediocre. which frankly is what i see in my local club. the beautiful thing is that the market will tell if this is a good move or bad regardless of what the bloggers say. if parents and kids find it to be a good deal and worth the money and potential hassle to commute, they will do it. if not, they wont and the money will dry up. i can guarantee one thing and that is that tryouts this year will produce a ton of noise and player movement. current bangu players on mediocre teams based in communities with good cc will probably leave MTA and current CC players with access to MTA training without a good team to play on will probably test MTA. let the recruiting begin
10:32 - excellent post. the one key point that I would disagree on is that what MTA will be attempting and how they have conducted themselves over the last few years is no different than any "elite" club across the nation. Eclipse has mutiple teams at many age groups. Some are the best and some are mediocre. Take any good CC team and they may have the top 1-5% that you state, but they also might have some kids who are barely C1. It all depends on how you want to look at things. You will never have the top 16-18 MN players on one team for two reasons.....1)some kids just won't migrate to the top club and 2)no one will ever agree who the top 16-18 players are in the first place.
The other reason 1050 is that even if everyone agrees on who the "top" 16-18 kids are in an age group, many of these kids have egos that will not permit them to play well together as a team. They are so used to being the superstar of their respective team and being treated as such by their club, coach and teammates.
Put these all-stars together on the same side and they all start to look average when compared to each other. Or, in some cases, below average. Then you have to have a coach who can manage all of the kids' egos and (more importantly) the parents egos.
Bangu must be getting most of the top players in some of the age groups.
They have had 5-6 times in the last few years where there teams faced each other in State Cup final and more times when they've eliminated each other in semis.
This is more than luck in mmy opinion.
Unless they don't have the most talent...just the best coaches?
anon 11:20
Uh oh! You've created quite the quandry there for a lot of the Bangu naysayers.
Either they have to acknowledge Bangu has consolidated the best 2 teams at an age group or that their coaches have done an outstanding job of training teams that aren't the best and taking them to State Cup semis and finals.
It's got to be one or the other, right?
Let's see how they try to spin your post. This should be fun.
My guess is they'll spin so fast they'll get dizzy! LOL
there is more to results and the mark of the best teams in the state than performance at state cup in april. that said, you are right they have had that occur and in those age groups and in those case for that event they are clearly strongest. however given the disappointments at regionals, maybe they should have only had one team because having 2 is diluting their ability to win outside the state. i am guessing the other states are doing a better job of creating a truly elite team and bringing them to regional as opposed to bangu creating 2 that are strong in state but not out of state
anon 1247
Bangu doesn't split talent equally on their teams.
The best 18 are placed on the blue teams and the next best 18 on the white teams.
Of course there will always be debate which are the top 18.
If you look at the results from State Cup you'll find Bangu beat most of the teams we would expect. (SD,IA,KS, KY etc)But they didn't fare as well against the Illinois, Michigan and Ohio teams with a much larger population to pull from.
Some of this is just a matter of larger population and pool of players.
Some of it is just that players are still too spread out over 3-4 clubs (particularly on the boys side. as most knowledgeable soccer minds knew going into regions that our U15 & U16 boys would struggle to win even 1 game).
We're far ahead of where we were as a state than 5-6 years ago thanks in part to the visionaries who pushed hard to consolidate talent and provide professional training for more players.
Let's sit back and give the new MTA program a chance. This just could be exactly what the state needs.
Did Shekki go on vaca again? Or just not commenting when faced with constructive dialog?
me thinks shekki likes to just stir it up - maybe he should change his name to don quixote as i believe mta has turned into his windmill........
To: Anon 1:00
Re: "We're far ahead of where we were as a state than 5-6 years ago"
I think we want to believe that after all the money some of us have spent.
But, 5-6 years ago would put us at 2002 / 2003.
Here's a list (Soccer Buzz) of the 40 colleges represented by MN recruits (girls)from those years.
(I put an * by schools which rostered only a Tsunami Sota player).
If we were really “so much farther ahead” I would think our current crops of recruits might reflect that improvement.
You can make an argument than more players may be playing D1.
But are our players being recruited by much stronger programs?
Air Force,Belmont,Boston College,Brown,Butler,
Cal State,Charleston,Chattanooga,Dartmouth*,Drake,
Florida,Fordham,Harvard,Houston,Illinois State*,
Iowa State*,Kansas*,Loyola,Marshall,McNeese State,
Minnesota,Montana,No Illinois,No Iowa,Northwestern* ,
Northwestern State,Penn State*,Purdue,Quinnipiac,St John's,
So Cal,Stony Brook,Tennessee,Texas A&M*,UNC-W,
UW-Milwaukee,Valparaiso,Vermont,Wisconsin*
Tsunami Sota was Storlien's team from Minnesota Valley which merged with Bangu to become Bangu Tsunami. That was one of the "blueprints" for success that the Bangu club followed.
His "Sota" team played in the national championship 2 consecutive years which was a great accomplishment and really was the beginning of the big push to consolidate talent in Minnesota.
Storlien is still a driving force behind that "model" today in his work at Bangu and now with the new MTA entity.
socmom the test will come in 3 years when the first Bangu academy classes will be entering college. We have strong young teams now, 5-6 years ago other than the current U17 Bangu girls we did not. Our current crop of U18's which enters college next fall was formed exactly as Sota was; plucked from the CC's at U16. They did not receive training at younger ages equivalent to what is available now. If you look at results at regions they are much better now than they were 5-6 years ago and beyond. The very fact that the state went around 500 this year and people feel that is disappointing shows we have made progress. Prior to 2002 a 500 record would have been cause for celebration! We can compete with any state except IL and MI, and yes I include OHN and OHS, we have records as good or better than both those states from our state cup champs. Also as far as joining strong programs, remember there is a difference between being recruited by a top 20 program and signing with them. There are a few girls (I know of 3) who had the opportunity but were looking for other things from the school than strength of soccer team. And yes they were offered at 70% or more before someone chimes in on that. Nothing wrong with going to a great soccer school if it suits you academically, geographically etc also. It is also fine if these factors take precedence in the decision. To each her own.
While all of you Thwingui wackos are patting yourselves on the back (try the other hand when you get tired), don't lose sight of the flagship's impressive string of performances this month. By my count, the loss to Atlanta leaves the Sprinkle 1-4-3 this month and rocking out at 7th of 11 teams in the vaunted U-League. Why isn't anyone bragging anymore about how much better they are after spending a bunch of the new owner's money to "upgrade" the talent pool? Please, can a bangu guru intercede to let us know that everything will be ok and that this is just a minor bump in the road?! Two losses to Puerto Rico, and a slide to the bottom half of the table: MTA RULES BABY! Have a nice day. Shekki, I'm here for you, man.
BTW IMHO all of the celebrating about the Bangu regional results above sounds curiously like licking wounds rather than serious chest pounding (we see enough here to be able to divine the difference.
Let's see.... 4 teams to regionals. 2 make semifinals and lose 1-0 games, the two that don't make semis are knocked out by the #1 and #4 team in nation. Just awful. And the Lightning leads their W league division.
Sad losers now trashing the Thunder and Lightning because their kids aren't good enough to make a Bangu team.
You poor old guys need to get a life instead of whining in here all day.
Do you realize how jealous and petty you guys sound?
It must suck to be one of you windbags.
Storlien? You talkin Storlien? Isn't he the genius that was handed a three time state champion and then rode them from the top to the bottom in just two years.He screwed that team up so bad they were something like 1 and 6 and shut out 5 times in their last seven games. To make matters worse he's been out coached in five of the games.Forget the excuses. The facts speak for themselves.
Hi, gang. I'm back. I was busy trying to figure out which of my kids wasn't good enough to play for Bangu. One has been hounded for two years, and neither likes the idea of leaving their friends and playing for a club like that. They get much more enjoyment training year-round with great coaches, traveling to great out of state tournaments and beating the superclub every once in awhile.
None of this has any bearing on the fact that the semi-pro teams in this state are garbage. I mean, really. We aspire to that? Puh-lease can we set out sights higher than that?
Shekki
As a former Thunder season ticket holder (with emphasis on the first adjective), I am horrified by watching the team play and all of the crap about the new academy. Folks, they are not good and not fun to watch. You have to be a moron to blame critiques of their performance on jealousy because someone's kid "could not make a bangu team." Are you bleeping kidding me? The Thunder's futility is sufficient to stand on it's own. It does not require any further vomit-inducing commentary by gubirds. I like the Sprinkle nick-name, which is sounding appropriate these days.
Then don't go and watch.
Lets see Bangu Tsunami Stars 1-2 at Regionals. Did anyone see the game vs the Eclipse team that won? 0-2 loss but heard it was close. Eclipse with multiple national and regional pool players. The Stars have never had many regional or national pool players. I am not sure they are better or worse. The bottom line is they don't have the talented players that Eclipse has, but if you were at the game I heard they were close. I agree it should be a close game with SSM next year, but I bet the Stars will finish toward the top of the MWRL and could get an automatic bid.
7:31:
Great advice for all!
Lets see Bangu Tsunami Stars 1-2 at Regionals. Did anyone see the game vs the Eclipse team that won? 0-2 loss but heard it was close. Eclipse with multiple national and regional pool players. The Stars have never had many regional or national pool players. I am not sure they are better or worse. The bottom line is they don't have the talented players that Eclipse has, but if you were at the game I heard they were close. I agree it should be a close game with SSM next year, but I bet the Stars will finish toward the top of the MWRL and could get an automatic bid.
5/7/08 8:04 AM
SO you werent at the Eclipse/Stars game then?? Nope, it was all Eclipse, Stars were on there heels for most of the game. Plus, Eclipse had many injuries with starters that did not play. I can tell you, Eclipse was most worried about the Star team more than any other.
From 10:58AM - "While all of you Thwingui wackos are patting yourselves on the back (try the other hand when you get tired), don't lose sight of the flagship's impressive string of performances this month. By my count, the loss to Atlanta leaves the Sprinkle 1-4-3 this month and rocking out at 7th of 11 teams in the vaunted U-League. Why isn't anyone bragging anymore about how much better they are after spending a bunch of the new owner's money to "upgrade" the talent pool? Please, can a bangu guru intercede to let us know that everything will be ok and that this is just a minor bump in the road?! Two losses to Puerto Rico, and a slide to the bottom half of the table: MTA RULES BABY! Have a nice day. Shekki, I'm here for you, man.
BTW IMHO all of the celebrating about the Bangu regional results above sounds curiously like licking wounds rather than serious chest pounding (we see enough here to be able to divine the difference."
OK, let me do some math for the haters here. I'll try and type slowly so you can follow.
14 MLS teams, 11 USL First Division teams. Conservative numbers of 25 rostered pros on each team gives us a total of 625 professional soccer players in the US. You may not feel the Thunder are very good in your expert opinions and vast experiences with pro soccer, but the fact still remains that because they are in existence young MN soccer fans get to see some of this country's best soccer players in action in our back yard. Yet haters like you bash away.
Why do you hold such animosity? From your post it's clear. You and others like you are threatened by the inception of MTA and are reaching at anything and everything to try and undermine the initiative. Where in all the MTA info does it say "come to our program because the Thunder pro team is the best"? You know you're on thin ice with any kind of facts or reason so you continue to reach and take shots at Bangu's regional results. If you're truly interested in success at regionals then you'd be in support MTA and the talent consolidation it stands for. Are you from MYSA? You sound like it. Be the White Knight here in MN for pissed off clubs against MTA/Bangu/Wings, then come to regionals next year and be our best friends as our teams represent the state. Pathetic.
You think you have a following of others on this blog who validate your comments. You all are clueless to what is happening on the regional and national scene in terms of elite player development. Clueless. US Soccer is mandating pro team involvement with the youth. European clubs are flocking to the US market to help develop players to seel overseas. College coaches and US scouts are attending the USDA showcases and national league events in droves. State ODP is on it's way out as an identification vehicle. It was never about elite player development. Programs like SSM, MTA, and US Club are the wave of the future, led by some of MN's most progressive and aggressive soccer thinkers. But I don't expect haters to recognize that based on limited experience and ignorance as you wallow in your stagnant pond of MYSA.
I eagerly await your idiotic response based in envy, hate, or whatever.
I was there, first half controlled by Bangu. Second half controlled by Eclipse. Score was 0-0 with 10 minutes left, Bangu started taking chances (needed win) and Eclipse scored a goal with around 7 minutes left and another with under a minute left. Each team had the edge in the half in which they had the wind. The better team won, both teams had injuries and starters out or playing hurt. Part of the game.
Solid 1034. Solid.
10:34, you are completely correct in your assessment of many on this blog and in your observations of how player development is changing in America.
BTW. We just received the new MYSA publication of Soccer Times. In it there are numerous ads from many clubs touting their accomplishments and listing tryout dates.
Two of the ads were particularly interesting. Both Edina and Eden Prairie clubs are openly inviting players from outside their community to tryout for the 2009 season.
Shamelessly recruiting from their fellow CC's - How unspeakably dastardly!
Edina has done so for the past couple of years I believe. Correct me if I am wrong. EP still has the 10% rule of total players from "away" making up their total base. If they go over that amount the city begins charging them for fields or taking away possible field priorities.
Seemed to me just about every club had an ad in the MYSA propaganda mailing. Seems to me that selling ads to clubs for advertising purposes of marketing (i.e. recruiting ) is a cash boom for them?
Read the presidential editorial - does that seem the right way to lead the state's youth soccer organization?
There is nothing wrong with what is being done here. I realize there may have been some sarcasm on the poster's part...but wanted to get this in before people started down the wrong rabbit trail.
"MYSA Policies and Rules Manual
1.3.4.1 PLAYERS BOUND TO MEMBER CLUB
.......
b. The open period for registered players who are considering playing for any Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member in the following season begins on August 1of each year (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament – whichever is later). Affiliate Members and Extraterritorial Members, their
administrators, board members, coaches (paid or unpaid), parents, independent contractors and/or entities used for purposes of administering tryouts, evaluations or other similar events used to form teams for the following soccer season may not schedule such an event until August 1 at the earliest (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament – whichever is later).
Tryouts or evaluations are allowed for U9 and U10 teams once league play is completed since there is no State Tournament for U9 and U10 teams. Advertisements, emails or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations or other similar events by any Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member are not subject to the August 1 restriction."
I have made it a point to be very informed on the recruitment policies/rules-- and the residency rules both on the National level and with EACH of the States.
SSMSouthCampus
sad to think that anom 10 34 is one of the great leaders of MTA,Your arrogance in print and in person is what puts people off
2:32PM, go cry somewhere else. We need people who can finally take a stand against mediocrity here in Minnesota if we want to give our kids the best possible opportunities to compete against kids from all around the US. Show me a non-arrogant DOC and I'll show you club full of players who are happily playing for the love of the game and have no interest in higher level competition.
10:34-I reviewed the Thunder Academy "flow chart" once posted on RRR / MA blog. I didn't see a plan for college recruitment. Most of the "top" players we've known / played with / against are headed to college soccer or not. Why would the MTA spend so much time and effort developing players in the hope they go straight to professional soccer. This isn't Europe. Does college soccer even exist across the pond?
4 29,you are putting down "playing for the love of the game",that says it all
10:34=MA
11:00=MA2
Always nice to hear from you buddy. BTW: Your math is brilliant. Does that mean that the Thunder are 21st out of 25 professional teams in the US? This would not be so bad, except that losing to Cleveland (not sure if you had them in your fast-moving computations) does seem to wreak some havoc in your Einstein-like efforts to put some perspective on the Thunder's slide to sub-mediocrity. Where does Cleveland City rank?
Hey 10:34, I agree with you. Let's get a professional team to help us develop our top players. Unfortunately, there isn't one in Minnesota.
Shekki
Shekki,
Let's see your team win State Cup. Then you might have something to brag about.
Right now you're just another wannabe loser.
Until you can win here you won't win anyhwere else...LOSER!
Poor little wannabe trying to live out his fantasy thru his poor little daughter.
LOSER says it all about this jealous whiner.
Hmmm...
loser; loser; wannabe; wannabe; poor; loser; jealous; whiner.
All of these words could be used to describe the Sprinkle!
10:47 a sedative is in order, or at least a cutback in your consumption of dainty little iced mocha latte caffeine-laced drinks (might help you with all of your pretty little hand gestures when you talk, too).
Still, you're obviously a bright man with an expansive vocabulary.
We want to know where our club dues were spent. Line item expenses please. Something isn't right.
anon you should be more concerned about the MYSA and their finances.
What club are you talking about anyway?? hard to keep track of pro-Bangu vs. anti-Bangu anons
it is interesting that some still think that the model followed at bangu is the one that the storlien coached Sota team followed.
That is the model that the club has quite clearly moved away from. the model followed is the one that Abboud (and Niemann and Vilme) started out with at Woodbury.
the old model recruited players from elsewhere and put them together at an older age. the new (and stronger) model has players in a high quality soccer environment at an earlier age, and build them to a strong team. check out the quality of the U13-15 teams on the boys and girls side, and you can clearly see that this plan is working.
can you imagine if woodbury wouldnt have effed up and kicked those guys out? lol
Well then, I like the Storlein model.
At least those kids were exposed to different coaching philosophies, styles of play, and technical skills before coming together.
The “cradle to grave” model seems to produce little robots unable to play outside their "system" or think creatively.
At some point, players have to learn to adapt.
If not, they won’t last long at the collegiate level.
It is kind of hard to begin with "home grown" talent from young ages. Eventually, every model would include development of your own kids. But, until you can get U8s through the system to the older ages....you kind of have to get your talent from outside?
I am pretty sure that is the difference you describe between the MA and the Storlien approaches. I would guess that thier actual approaches aren't that much different.....seems pretty elementary to me?
SSMSouthCampus
255 I don't follow the point you are trying to make. The top teams in the state from U16-18 are better than from U13-U15. Wouldn't that argue against the MA model?
So when is there going to be a Regional ODP Camp/Tournament blog section?
First camp is this week!
LET's GO MINNESOTA!
There are very few things that matter less. And yes my kid is on the MN team.
half way to 1000!!!
With the "cradle to grave" approach of developing a team from young to old, what happens if your crop of players doesn't develop athletically or your player just isn't built as an athlete (i.e. they end up slow, or uncoordinated, or overweight, etc.)?
Seems like a lot of resources could be put into developing players technically and tactically, but in the end, athletes will win out, which leads to the other approach of gathering the talent at an older age.
it is all about training quality players from a younger age.
to the guy who thought that there is not much success with the younger bangu teams, well - U13 Bangu vs Bangu sc final, U14 the same, including region champs last year, U15 done very well
boys side, U13 clearly the class of the state, U14 very good and earned MRL premier league, U15 also in MRL premier league
definitely the older ages have done well, too, but if you look at them, they also came from a "train them younger" mentality, while adding more quality players over time.
another thing that cannot go unnoticed is the effect that BTFC has had on many other organizations. several clubs have cranked up their training and competition plans - mostly based upon what bangu and bangu-like teams have done and are doing - and that has created a higher level of competition in the state. that is good for all involved in the game......... unless your kid gets cut, I know :p
11:21 - I agree completely with your last comment. A rising tide raises all ships.....so I guess the Tsunami part of Bangu is an appropriate name for their impact on MN soccer.
Many clubs have been programming "like Bangu" long before Bangu. Give me a break. The difference is the methods involved in recruiting. Several CCs have also considered(years and years ago) combining clubs ala MTA.
Many clubs have been programming "like Bangu" long before Bangu. Give me a break. The difference is the methods involved in recruiting. Several CCs have also considered(years and years ago) combining clubs ala MTA.
3:25/6 - maybe some, but if you reviewed what some of the clubs offered 3 years ago and what they offer now, there are many others who have stepped it up. Even most of the bigger CC clubs have stepped up their off-season training, out of state tournament schedule, and level of league play.
MA or DS philosophy? If you saw the Lightning get lit up the other day six zip you might want to adhere to MA 's philosophy.It was embarrassing to say the least.I believe it was the worst loss in Lightning history.
The Lakers got crushed by the Celtics in the last game. Fire Phil Jackson because obviously he can't coach.
There is a huge talent gap between FCI and Lightning. Is that DS fault?
There is a big gap between Bangu and Tonka. What's your point?
Maybe the Lightning don't belong in the W league.
Quit making excuses. It is what it is.
while some teams have followed the btfc model in the past, there has not been a club in the past 20 years that has been able to find kids who are interested in getting together to play and train like this group. there is often a team here and a team there who take this model, and with the help of a few interested parents, find a good number of capable and interested players to make this type of model work.
NEVER has it been done as a matter of club policy, though, the way bangu has done it.
recruiting, while a part of the model, is by no means a new process. i had kids actively recruited from my club 20+ years ago by blackhawks and st croix, for example. i took heat then for encouraging this for these players, because my club had no programming to suit the kids' needs and/or desires.
as for the commentary about storlien and the lightning vs FCI - it was clear that FCI is a cut above everyone. Has nothing to do with the model - they are as close as there is to a true professional women's team as there is in the country, and among the top handful of teams in the world. I think we are fortunate to have seen them play here, they are quite good, and clearly a cut above the rest of the league.
more to the point, maybe FCI don't belong in the W league. Lightning have performed quite well in this league, no?
Yup...they are too good. Kick em out. Now there is a novel excuse.
Let's kick Ohio and Ill. out of Mrl.
AHHH. lets kick Bangu out of state cup.
It ain't fair. They are too good.
Grow up. Be a man.
804 how is stating the fact that FCI has a lot of excellent players while the Lightning does not making excuses?
8:43 - don't waste your time looking for reason. it is easier for some folks just to vent. they are all over the blogosphere.
I don't think you can compare DS and MA. Both work at different age groups. DS has been the one who has promoted talent consolidation at the older age groups in the early 2000s. MA has focused on the 9 to 12 year old development. To my mind they are both among the best in Minnesota at what they do. Find someone for the 13 to 15 age groups, put them with the two already mentioned, and now you have a model to replicate.
No club has done what Bangu has done for soccer in this state and people like DS, MA, and many others involved are to thank. Other DOCs should thank these guys as their (other DOCs) are able to make a better living now that clubs want to compete for players =)
FCI is the third ranked women club team in the world.
They have 6 players with full national team experience. They are ranked ahead of the top womens team from the womens EPL. The Lightning started 6 youth players. FCI pays all of its players the Lightning does not even pay one player. The Lightning belong in the W League and next year FCI will lose players to Women's Professional Soccer. FCI has been crushing everyone with the exception of the Lightning's 1-1 tie. FCI has never lost at home and the young ladies from MN had them within 5 minutes of the end. I talked to Danny after the game and he did not make any excuses which if you know him he is not about that at all. If you watched the game you know the talent level is not even close, the experience level not even close. He said to me I hope we make a 3rd playoff app. and get another crack at them.
Interesting discussion. I am intrigued by the reputations that become attached to certain coaches. As a fan of both club and high school soccer (for different reasons), I find that the two environments provide a nice opportunity to assess coaching/teaching quality. I imagine the coaching needs of a high powered/select club team are different than the needs of a high school varsity team. That being said, coaches like Marshak (spelling?) seem to do well in both regards. He does a wonderful job with his club and high school teams. I am more curious about the Herskovitz/Magee phenomena. Clearly they know the game, they played at a high level and I imagine they offer tremendous technical expertise, and they both have done quite well in their club coaching career. They both struggled (never winning the big games etc.) in their careers as high school head coach. At times, their teams at SPA played pretty soccer but they never were able to put it together. It seems that coaching high school (where the emphasis must be on teaching the game to all levels as they are usually not quite the same level as a hand picked select tesm) must emphasize teaching the game, motivating all players and being able to bring all players to a certain level. I would guess that most coaches would look pretty good if they were coaching SSM u-18 or a particular brand of a Bangu team. Obviously, not anyone can do it, but there are many more than just the 5 or 6 who continually get mentioned. High school soccer seems to be a nice arena to judge the 'teaching ability' of a certain coach. I am a bit puzzled by the club superstar who cannot translate it to success in other coaching arenas.
anon 8:56,
Danny Storlien has been very successful at both club and HS soccer coaching.
He has taken 4-5 teams to State Cup championships and went to national final twice.
He has also been successful as a HS coach at Bloomington where his boys team won State "AA" a few years ago.
There may be other coaches in Minnesota with a similar resume but off the top of my head no others come to mind.
Are there any other coaches who have won a HS State Championship and also coached club teams to State Cup Championships?
I'd guess there has to be a few.
anon 7/7 6:07
I agree with your idea to fire the coach.That would be a good start.
SPA under Magee and then Herskovitz played great soccer. It was totally different than normal high school soccer. They might not have been able to achieve the best results given their choice to play the way they played (as opposed to more directly), but I know many spectator parents (and other coaches) who greatly respected what Magee and Herskovitz did there.
I see registration for MTA is now on-line.
I may sign my daughter up just to see what kind of propaganda I start receiving in my e-mail box.
I see registration for MTA is now on-line.
I may sign my daughter up just to see what kind of propaganda I start receiving in my e-mail box.
Instead of giving them your primary email address, give them that email address that you use to get all your porn and other spam. MTA marketing machine anxiously awaits your email address.
Question about ODP - what does it mean by "A" pool and "B" pool? There are MN girls on both pools for the 1993 team. What happens if you make a pool? What does it mean to be "held over"?
And, no, my daughter is not one of these players. She will be attending later and it is our first time going to the regional camp so we are just curious.
What would be the top ten clubs in MN?
A pool is a notch up from B pool. The eventual region team will be selected from the A pool on the last day of camp. Players can move back and forth between pools during camp. Or they could drop out of a pool or enter one from the "pack". Don't get too wrapped up in it, it is a very inexact science where prior reputation and coach recommendations are as important as camp performance for most of the kids. Tell your daughter to feel good if she makes a pool but not be disappointed if not. There are always players left off that are better players than the ones selected. It is the nature of the beast. Try again next year if it is important to her.
3:52 - if your daughter is a '94 or older then the pools will come into play. Any year younger than that there is no pool.
Top ten clubs by what standards ? won/loss records,development programs,cost structure ?
I think some clubs are doing more than others to develop players and teams but believe by listing them I will undoubtedly leave out some good clubs. Heres a try in no particular order.
EP,Tonka,Wayzata, Dakota Rev,Blackhawks,Bangu,Edina, Mpls United,Burnsville,Kelix,
Others to consider,?,? Roch,Maplebrook,Cottage grove,Eagan,Lakeville.
Next to the "super club," SCV put more teams into the State Cup semis than anyone else. Three MRL teams, and they care about everyone from MRL to C3.
We're new to the state and we're looking for a club for a Premier/C1 level boy and girl. In general, what are the top 10 clubs, any location, "super club" or "non-super club."
Gathering from Anon648, it looks like almost any larger community in the west and the south metro have good clubs - looks like soccer is pretty good here in MN, so I'm confused why there is so much fussing happening on this blog.
- From PA
New from PA- tryout for the MN Thunder Academy, nothing else compares if your kids are good players.
From PA - one word..............PARENTS!
New From PA,
Check out the Minnesota team/club rankings at this website to further assist your decision making process:
http://www.nationalsoccerranking.com/
PA - With USA Cup this weekend and next week, perfect opportunity to figure out what you are looking for. Call up some clubs that you are looking at, find out who the coach will be next year and if the teams are playing in the Cup and go watch them, talk to parents, players and coaches and see if you like what they have to say and their style of play.
PA - Another great place to look is this website showing Minnesota State Cup results from the past few years. It gives you a good indication of which clubs produce top level teams.
http://mnyouthsoccer.org/events/statecup.cfm#result
Rankings are just a number...They're based on a small number of elite level tournament results. I agree with 10:34.
PA, Where do you live and what ages are your kids?
If you are looking for high level soccer you are not going to find at the USA Cup, at best it is C1 soccer.
1:42 - Do you have better option right before tryouts for next year? Please offer it up. Premier league is pretty much over. MRL is on summer break. Premier teams don't play in districts. Where else will you be able to see the most teams in a short amount of time?
Depending on what ages your kids are. I would go watch some age appropriate teams that are playing at the USA Cup. What U level are they currently, maybe someone can give you some teams at that level to watch and see if they are a match. Good Luck! There are some teams at each age level that are better than C1.
8:56 - I think you will see Marshak is one of the rising "new" stars in this state as far as coaching. My daughter played for him at SSM and thought he was one of the best coaches she's ever had. There is a reason SSM lured him up here from Ohio in the first place, he brought a resume with him from Ohio that included multiple state cups, a regional title, a national title, sectional high school titles, was a NCAA DI coach, and he was the DOC of a major club - and if I'm mistaken he's still not yet 30 years old yet. If the rumors are true that AHA gave him full time teaching that is a great investment on their part, because I CAN TELL you as an insider the reason he left SSM was about the desire to teach. I wasn't surprised in the slightest to see the Thunder land him as their keeper coach and know he is still the personal trainer for Cat Parkhill, a reason she chose the U perhaps? That I can't say for sure.
Does he have a high school state championship to his name? No, then again he's only been at AHA one year, and last year they went out of the tourney to 1-0 to a team that eventually lost the title in penalties (Blake), so my guess its a matter of time. Give a coach like him a bunch of athletes, mix in one Olivia Schultz, add a Rachel Hoaglin, who knows. High school is about surrounding one or two thoroughbreds with solid horses.
Funny how the Bangoons are telling "new from PA" to look at State Cup results (and bashing USA Cup). I expect the Bangoons aren't playing at USA Cup...though you can bet they'll be marketing like hell up there.
Not getting a clear picture of where the top 10 clubs are. Seems like a lot of confusion in MN. By the links showing tournament results and rankings, it certainly looks like Bangu Tsunami is the dominant club, but then half the people on here speak poorly of that club. More confusion.
We live in Bloomington and are willing to go anywhere for a club. Bloomington is one of the largest communities, but we haven't heard much about their large soccer club. Any insight?
We just want a snapshot of the top clubs so we can efficiently fill out our calendar with tryout dates since we are new to the state.
- From PA
Look, everyone here has their favorite club. Mine is Dakota Rev (my kid plays for them and it has been great). I think Bangu is a nice option for very high level play , but a lesser option as you go to their lower level teams JMO. If you live in Bloomington you have several very good options close to you. Eden Prairie, Edina and Burnsville are close, Dakota Rev, Tonka and Wayzata are the next closest (distance).
You need to identify what you want and realistically what level your kids play at, then find the clubs listed above who have teams at the levels your kids play at that give them the best opportunity for success (however you define that). Check them all out, including Bangu/Thunder/Wings etc.
Bangu gets bashed alot because of the success they have had and many dislike the recruiting tactics they use. They are a great option for some but certainly not all. If you are serious about your kids soccer experience and are new to the area you would be wise to check them out. You also would be smart to look at several of the other above mentioned clubs as they all have done a very nice job developing winning teams and strong players and are typically less costly.
I would rank the clubs like this:
1. Bangu
2. Blackhawks
3. Wings
4. St. Croix Valley
5. Eden Prairie
6. Valley United
7. Woodbury
8. Tonka United
9. Eagan
10. Edina, Dakota Rev, Rochester, Westside, PSA, Lakeville, Mpls United (depending on the age/team)
Rather than rip my rankings, please offer your own.
1. Bangu/Wings/MTA
2. St Croix
3. Woodbury
4. Blackhawks
5. PSA
6. Eden Prairie
7. Edina
8. Minneapolis United
9. Valley United
10. Rochester
1. Bangu
2. Blackhawks
3. St. Croix Valley (huge strides)
4. Wings
5. Eden Prairie
6. PSA
7. Edina
8. Mpls United (this will improve)
9. Valley United
10. Eagan
Someone forgot to mention Shattuck-St Marys soccer development program..www.s-sm.org
PA- EP as a community club is right there with St. Croix and a shorter drive. In my opinion is better up and down when compared to gender and age groups than Blackhawks, who have made major strides with some teams.
EP, I believe offers better training programs throughout the year than PSA and has a vastly superior DOC.
Wings are being incorporated into the new Thunder Academy program so unless you want to try that route....
IF you have girl players and want to play closer to home you should check out Edina - They have a highly qualified female DOC who does a very good job.
Unfortunately in your own backyard Bloomington's club is a shell of it's former self.
My daughter played at Valley for a few years - it was ok and maybe has improved?? Burnsville might be an option based upon your location.
My personal suggestion would be try Edina, EP or maybe even Burnsville. If your are not happy after the first year you can always look elsewhere.
It's amazing how someone who just moved here from Pennsylvania and who knows nothing about soccer in Minnesota can find this blog. Wow.
Next we'll have the single mom from Woodbury who needs help paying the fees for her top 1% kid. And then we'll get the parent from Eden Prairie who's concerned about a CC's ability to develop his 5-year old who can juggle the ball 1,000 times.
Nice try, Thwingu marketing machine.
Shekki
P.S. MU has a great thing going, and watch out for a little known new club called St. Paul United.
PA....Find a cc. Much cheaper.Your kids will not get any more personal development at a big name club than at a cc.
Hire a personal trainer to work one on one with your kid on developing and improving skill sets. Someone who's played D1 soccer and has a rep as a skilled player.
Get a family membership at a health club (eg Life Time Fitness).Your kid can work out as much as needed at a reasonable cost year around.
The big clubs are over rated and over priced for what you get.
Good luck.
Valley and Eagan, you forgot Farmington and Hastings.... serious!!!
WeeWee,
Can you google? Or is that beyond your capabilities?
If you can figure it out try the following searches:
St Louis soccer blog
Kansas City scoccer blog
Milwaukee soccer blog
Portland soccer blog
You might be surprised what's out there.
Obviously you're even more clueless than I originally thought.
PA, If your child is looking for year round training with other talented players try the Bangu/Thunder/Wings. I guess it all depends on their interest and how serious they are about training. ANON 713 is a foolish to think that you will get just as much personal development at a CC as a big time club. If your child played at a higher level before, I think you might be disappointed if you listen to most of the haters on this blog and pass up looking into a big club.
PA,
I think this about says it all.
2008 State Cup Champions - Bangu 8 titles with no other club more than 1.
2007 State Cup Champions - Bangu 8 titles with no other club more than 1.
2006 State Cup Champions - Bangu 7 titles with no other club more than 2. (Wings had 2 & now merged with Bangu)
If you want the best club with top teams and top coaches then Bangu/Thunder is the best in this area.
If you're looking for something a little more low key there are several community clubs that do a decent job for most of the kids.
WeeWee!
roflmao...that moniker fits that whiner perfectly!
Perfect representation of the recreational philosophy prevalent in MN. Why has no one yet asked what the age groups are for the kids he is looking to get on teams? Granted, at most age groups...Bangu is probably the best option for most age groups.(unless you are interested in being a day or boarding student at a place with great facilities, quality coaches, and REAL year round (daily) training)
But, there are some good teams/coaches out there depending on the age groups you are talking about. If you are willing to give the ages of your kids, then I am sure you can get more definitive answers.
SSMSouthCampus
7:29 writes: "If you're looking for something a little more low key there are several community clubs that do a decent job for most of the kids."
OMG...and the Goonybirds wonder why everyone hates them. That has to be the most pompous and ridiculous thing I've read on this blog, and there have been lots of pompous and ridiculous things written here. I say we all take a collection and rent Thwingu some space in Hudson, so they can establish a domicile in Wisconsin. I for one will not miss them when they take their unbelievable egos, robotic playing style, wacko parents and precocious Mias and Landons and play elsewhere. Good riddance.
Shekki
P.S. To the other Bangoon Idiot, if you google "Minnesota Soccer," this site does not show up. Not sure why a new resident would know to add "blog" to the search string. Nice try, loser.
WeeWee,
Run along now and go play in your litter b...uh...sand box.
This blog is for adults not little whiners.
Even high school kids know how to google.
7:29,
It's remarkable that a club that piled up those honors also failed to keep their 14P status for next year (losing miserably to a bunch of "low key" options). Very impressive, indeed.
Shekki rules.
7:29,
I didn't believe you were accurate on your State Cup championship counts but you are.
I broke down the last 3 years posted on the MYSA website a little more.
Here's the breakdown of State Cup titles by club for last 3 years.
Bangu 23
St Croix 3
Plymouth 3
Woodbury 3
Wings 2
Minneapolis United 2
Edina 1
Faribault 1
Valley United 1
Eagan 1
Eden Prairie 1
Blackhawks 1
Hard to believe that much of a gap has developed over the last few years.
Shekki WeeWee,
Which club won State Cup at U14 Girls age group?
Amazing how little Faribault gets 1 team to regionals and wins the thing, and the Bangoons need to send 23 teams to win one. Who is this Fariabult club anyway? Oh yeah. They're SSM, my friend, and they're going to put you out of business.
Shekki rules.
Shekki drools...
Which team won State Cup at U14 girls age group?
Shekki,
Faribault won the 1 age group at State Cup in which Thwingu didn't have an entry...hmmmm?
How did the Faribault girls fare against the Goo Girls at U18?
10:43, Shekki didn't send that post. I did. I assume you're trying to "box" me, but it ain't working. Anyone can play in State Cup, meaning a good draw can get you into a weak bracket, making advancing easy, meaning you only need to win two games to be champions. Look at U15 boys this year, where a good but no way great Edina team played a semifinal against a weak Champlin team and got amazingly lucky against the much better Bangu Blue to win the State Cup. No one in this state thinks Edina is better than Bangu Blue. Probably not even Edina. But on any given day, who knows?
Now, move on to premier league. Here you have the six teams that earned the right to call themselves cream of the crop (you know, the teams you recruit from). Bangu couldn't win 3 out of 10 games against their peers? I mean, really.
Tito
Face it, SSM is better than MTA. They're just starting and will dominate.
Hey I just learned how to use "The Google" and came across your blog.
Now, I'm going to go try "The Yahoo" and see if that works too.
Yep, "The Yahoo" works too, AMAZING!
Good point regarding the Goober 14 premier situation. I don't see any of their frequent director/contributors to this blog on here bragging about their finely honed skills at putting the best players together there. I've seen some poor teams maintain status over the years. I would hope there is a failsafe that would prevent a team that went ofer from getting a MRL spot. Can you hear the Goober howls if that justice happened?
Don't any of you tools realize the "true U14" Bangu girls team is playing in U15 Premier?
The Bangu team that won State Cup at U14 has a winning record in the U15 Premier League.
Get a clue folks.
Bangu is most competitive very early in the season ie: State Cup. Why ? easy they train more over the off season and compete in more off season out of state tournaments. As the season progresses any dominance they may have had is muted. As more teams go to year around training,and many more are, you will see Bangu's dominance lessened at the State Cup. I know this is contrary to the MTA predictions, but as other clubs like St Croix, Dakota Rev, EP, Edina,Blackhawks,MU and several others enhance their winter programs they will produce more top teams because as a rule kids would rather play close to home, with their classmates and neighbors as long as they get a quality opportunity . Mom and Dad would love it with $4 gas and more reasonable club fees. MTA is te best thing that ever happened for the CC's. Too big for some, too much travel for others. this gives the CC a great local opportunity.
7:55
I agree with most of your assessment.
As the old adage goes..."a rising tide lifts all ships".
The CCs have been forced to provide more year round options for their players due to the competitive pressure. This is a plus for all kids who are serious about improving their soccer skills.
This new MTA venture will only increase the competitive pressure on all the CCs and they in turn will be forced to improve their product too.
Competition is a good thing.
In an attmept to right this sinking ship and get the discussion back to what was probably its original intention of discussing the Thunder's new academy, I'm curious about people's opinions on the leadership of this new venture...
ThunderRec Program - Dave Alberti, MTW Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, North - Brian Pederson, MTN Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, South - Rob Zahl, Interim MTS Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, East - Andy Kaasa, MTE Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, West - Dave Alberti, MTW Regional Academy Director
Regional Development Program, Urban - Tod Herskovitz, MTU Regional Academy Director
Thunder Juniors Program - Mark Abboud, MTA Technical Director
Girls Elite Development Program - Mark Cook, Chad Moore, MTA Girls Elite Academy Directors
Boys Elite Development Program - Rob Zahl, Tod Herskovitz, MTA Boys Elite Academy Directors
For those that have had actual experience interacting with these coaches, what are your opinions, both positive and negative, on their styles and abilities? Are these the right individuals to be leading this new venture? Who are other coaches that might have been better suited to be in these position? Are there particular clubs that stand to benefit or lose out the most because of MTA? Would anyone like to see Buzz involved in all of this as one of the true soccer visionaries from MN?
anon 7:28
There is a reason the word "clueless" is mentioned often on this blog.
It's because most of the posters are "clueless" to the type of fact you pointed out, the top Bangu U14 Girls team is playing at U15 Premier. This is the team that won USYS Regionals last year and State Cup at their true age level again this year.
Clueless is as clueless does.
Hey 755,
Keep telling yourself, "as the season progresses any dominance they may have had is muted." Eventually even you will believe yourself.
The truth is, good (not great) CCs get an inflated sense of their abilities by beating the bad CCs during the MYSA season. Then they get clobbered the next year at State Cup yet again.
The one thing it does do, is make for interesting conversation on this blog leading up to state cup (the true state championship) because that inflated sense of self carries over into the spring.
728,
Lighten up a bit.
I don't think all these posters are clueless.
Just a bit ignorant as to which teams are playing at each competitive level (playing up etc) and also a bit too eager to jump on the "Bash Bangu" bandwagon.
I'm not a "Bangoon,"
but for the top teams and the top players, State Cup and Regionals is what matters. That is why Bangu performs well early in the season at State Cup. That is when the players care the most. It's not a product of "more offseason training." And it's not a product of coaching, it's a product of when the PLAYERS care the most (once again, too much emphasis is put on coaches/clubs, it's the players that decide the games).
After State Cup/Regionals, most of those players start caring about ODP Region camp. That's a lot of football for the time period. Players put MYSA league play on the backburner. As a player, I didn't even care about the multiple MYSA State Championships I won.
The previously mentioned CC opinion that Bangu stops developing after State Cup isn't a thorough understanding of the situation. It's the classic opinion of a CC person who doesn't understand the emphasis that top players put on State Cup. I love when you find those CC people out there who have never heard of State Cup when it's the only tournament of the year that really matters.
- A CC Person
State Cup and Regionals is what matters.
This is the problem with youth soccer in the US. Win Win Win..What ever happened to Development?? Who cares who wins what in the youth games of today, why doesnt little Jenny and Johnny's parents see the big picture, College and above?? hey, I hope all your little superstars at u13,14,15 etc win win win, maybe they may win the freshman player of the year award when the attend college.
Why is college soccer at the end of the big picture? What is so great about college soccer? If it's a matter of getting a athletic scholarship to open doors for attending college, fair enough.
But what percent of these players that we're developing have the chance to get an athletic scholarship? And if you've been planning from the developmental stage to earn an athletic scholarship to attend college, you've chosen the wrong sport, especially for a Minnesotan. So that's a bunch of mularkey.
Maybe, in developing our young players, no games should matter. We shouldn't try to win any of the tournaments. Competition breeds hatred and greed. Trying to win one meaningful tournament places too much pressure on our players. This is just a bunch of bogus.
Without the goal of winning, what is there to work for? All the soccer scholarship money that is floating around out there at colleges? An MLS contract that so many Minnesotans can get?
For the top players and top teams who have developed further than the underdeveloped damaged goods at U15+, winning State Cup is what matters. The goal of winning State Cup and on to winning Nationals is a great tool for development.
- CC Person
anon 10:22
You made a great point! The main goal of any soccer club is to develop players. This is one of the main focuses of the newly named Minnesota Thunder Academy. There will be less emphasis on wins and losses and more on player development. The MTA elite teams will understandably need to place some emphasis on results to compete better on the regional and national scales, but one would hope that the player development is a primary focus as well. For all MTA teams, regardless of competition level, the emphasis is to develop players and make them better than they were the year before. It doesn't mean that all players will become the next best thing, but they will have achieved a personal improvement in their soccer skills. Winning isn't everything in youth sports and MTA is striving to support that ideology.
Winning isn't everything but it's just about the only yardstick used to measure a club's performance at the highest levels.
What exactly is the point of developing players if not to showcase their talent at some point?
And, the reason college is important is because it continues to be the one consistent venue for players who want to compete at the next level.
The USA soccer culture and IQ are not the same as in other parts of the world.
Most "good" players here want to go straight to college, unlike other parts of the world where there are more non college options.
The Thunder’s apparent lack of understanding on this issue should concern any parent willing to plunk down their money for player development.
It’s pretty simply, the Thunder and Lightning rosters are limited.
There are many more options, in college, for kids who want to play post high school.
You don't go to college to play football. You go do college to get a degree.
The college soccer season only lasts 10 weeks. D1 programs will have dedicated offseason training (but how many MN players play D1 for 4 years).
If players are just looking to play post high school, join an adult team. I played both college soccer and top division MASL. My MASL team would have slaughtered my college team as it was made up of all the top college players.
I just don't understand why so many parents think we're developing players so they can play a compact season of college football. We're developing players because football is fun, sports are valuable, winning State Cup is fun, and winning the National Championship would be fun.
- CC Person
socmom,
Your comments show a complete lack of understanding of the concept of sport.
EPL teams measure the success of their academies by the number of players that they can make their first team or they can sell to other teams. Ask any academy and they couldn't give a horse's arse how many trophies their youth teams win. That's not the point.
Most "good" players' PARENTS want them to go straight to college. They are looking for the meal ticket so they feel validated for shelling out all that cash for private coaches and tons of travel, etc. etc. thanks to our materialistic society and the egos of all the wannabe parents that never made it themselves. There are not any more non-college options around the world than there are here. The same tiny percentage of players make it around the world as here, so don't think we have it all that different.
The dean of my college (in the top 10 research univeristies in the country) put it in this perspective..."if you have the ability to play professional sports and make money at it, get the hell out of my classroom. It will still be here when your career is over." Developing players to be successful later as opposed to now is the point. If State and Regional Cup titles is the means to that end, so be it, but don't for a moment think that it is the measuring stick.
But you also show no understanding of physcial development either. Some athletes don't develop as quickly as others. To toss them out because they don't show promise early is naive and ignorant. That is where I believe the Thunder is trying to go. Keep them in the system, continue to train even the C3 levels with skilled coaches and everyone has fun, and maybe you get lucky and get not only the studs early, but you get the late bloomers too.
the fact of the matter is that most good soccer players in the united states can't afford to play organized soccer. the immigrants and 'poor' community players (especially on the boys side) that gather at your local park would destroy any fancy bangu, ssm, club team, etc. team with a little money and organization. the usa (and certainly MN and the major clubs cc or otherwise) does very little to make soccer affordable to those with limited financial ability. let's not kid ourselves when 95% of all thingwu players are white (girls and boys) that they have wonderful elite soccer players. what they have a the best of the players that can afford it and the backing of the parents with the commitment and means to fund it. i dont begrudge that issue because good for them, but let's be honest here. the best bangu girl or boy wouldn't see the field against 95% of the good soccer teams and clubs across the world. so yes, in MN, for white kids with money that can afford it and with parents that support it, bangu (among others) is a great option. let's not overblow their excellence on any bigger of a scale
The last 2 posts are excellent. Now intelligent football people are on here.
Football is kind of a "country club" sport in this area. The affluent, white kids are the ones that win. Look at the talented U16 Boys group. Look at the players that made the ODP Pool in 2007. All 6 or 7 of them are non-white - and it's a talented 6 or 7 with 2 of them being National level players. Look at the 2 best MN players who get playing time with the MN Thunder, Aaron Paye and Melvin Tarley. Both are non-white who didn't really develop in our youth system.
Certainly on the boys side, the most elite boys are still the "non-country club" type of player. This just goes to show, you truly develop on your own, outside of your club system. Per usual though, parents like to think there clubs and coaches are the answer to developing footballers. It's not. It's the backyard and the park. All of this ranking of coaches and ranking of clubs is a bunch of bull.
- CC Person
It's only futbol in Spanish speaking countries. It's football in England other English speaking countries outside of the US and carribean. Didn't the English invent the game? It's fussball in German, calcio in Italian...shall I go on 2:04. Another quote for you..."It's better to let others believe you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." - author unknown
I'm not going to dignify your second statment with a reply.
It's "football" in any English speaking country outside North America. Are we speaking Spanish on here? Parents can be sew dum sumtimes.
And it's not about black. It's a general observation about non-white (not just black) players in MN.
Racist?
- CC Person
You're calling "intelligent" a post that concludes that Minnesota soccer discriminates against minorities and the poor? Really? All the more reason to boycott the MYSA and support Thwingu, because at Thwingu the rich white kids will financially support the poor black kids and keep the bench nice and dry for them when they come off at halftime.
Shekki
P.S. Most of the non-white boys are at least 2-3 years older than they say they are.
While growing up, my dad used to think he was hip amongst his clueless soccerdads by using the word "futbol" in some kind of broken Spanish accent. It was so dumb. I'd be like, "Dad, why are you speaking in half English, or I mean, half Ingles?"
Some things never change. There is no hope for soccermoms and soccerdads out around here.
Minnesota doesn't develop players because we don't have quality coaches.In Minnesota soccer should be your last choice of sports.Minnesota is still in the Dark Ages when it comes to soccer.Sorry but that's just the way it is.
WeeWee,
So now you're saying that most of the "non-white boys" are lying about their age?
You're quite the tool, fool.
Not all of them...just the ones who go from having a driver's license to playing U14 for Bangu.
Shekki's post from 7/10/08 at 2:29cut and pasted:
P.S. Most of the non-white boys are at least 2-3 years older than they say they are.
Just run along loser. Not only are you a fool but you're a racist fool.
You can run and hide but we all know what kind of loser you really are. Your racist post said it all.
Shekki,
You've shown the blogosphere your true "racist" colors.
Go away and stay away. There's no place for your kind in our soccer community.
Your racist post said it all.
mr. curiousity is right.
Ignore the racist ranter.
He's just looking for attention.
We don't need bigots on this blog.
He has shown us his colors and we don't like them.
2:37,
What defines a "quality coach?"
I think there are a lot of strong football coaches in MN. It seems to me like the problem lies in the clueless parents out there who can't relate to their young football players. When half the parents out there think it's "futbol" instead of "football," that's a problem.
Parents in other countries know the game and talk intelligently about the game at the dinner table. In MN, the same thing happens with hockey families. In MN, players get home from soccer practice and go toss the baseball around with their dad. This is why so many of the non-white players dominate MN Boys football. Their dads kick the football around with them rather than stopping slap shots. In MN, families wake up on Sunday and listen to Terry Bradshaw. In Europe, they wake up on Sundays and watch Cristiano.
It's not the coaches' fault. It's not really the players' fault. It's the fault of the culture and the clueless parents.
I don't think Shekki is a racist. He's just trying to get under your skin, and I think he is doing a masterful job of it. Racism goes both ways. Here are thoughts from today...none of which were written by Shekki:
"the immigrants and 'poor' community players (especially on the boys side) that gather at your local park would destroy any fancy bangu, ssm, club team, etc. team with a little money and organization." (a little anti-white racism from anonymous, 12:58pm)
"let's not kid ourselves when 95% of all thingwu players are white (girls and boys) that they have wonderful elite soccer players. (more anti-white venom from anonymous, 12:58pm)
"the best bangu girl or boy wouldn't see the field against 95% of the good soccer teams and clubs across the world." (still more hate from anonymous, 12:58pm)
"so yes, in MN, for white kids with money that can afford it and with parents that support it, bangu (among others) is a great option." (a little anti-rich racism from anonymous, 12:58pm)
"The affluent, white kids are the ones that win." (CC person, 1:57pm)
"the most elite boys are still the "non-country club" type of player." (CC person, 1:57pm)
"Bangu teamed with Wings to form MTA, giving them a presence they couldn't establish on their own in the western suburbs, from where the new MTA will aggressively recruit rich white kids with limited skills to subsidize the poor non-white kids." (OK, I made that one up.)
omg, 3:36, so the sorry state of soccer in Minnesota is due to WHITE PEOPLE!
According to 2:37, I am SUCH a clueless dad who is SO BAD for soccer. As a youngster, I called them "shoes." As a teenager, I wore "cleats." With several children now playing competitive soccer, I thought I was hip when I started calling them "boots." Imagine my shock when my kid comes home from training calling them "kicks" (the newest, hippest term from across the pond). The HORROR! I'm 42 and still using the wrong term! I'm not fit to be around the soccer field...er, the PITCH!
Wow! Shekki really stepped in it.
corrected
According to 3:36, I am SUCH a clueless dad who is SO BAD for soccer. As a youngster, I called them "shoes." As a teenager, I wore "cleats." With several children now playing competitive soccer, I thought I was hip when I started calling them "boots." Imagine my shock when my kid comes home from training calling them "kicks" (the newest, hippest term from across the pond). The HORROR! I'm 42 and still using the wrong term! I'm not fit to be around the soccer field...er, the PITCH!
Go away, Shekki.
Bill
Yeah, just leave.
Jill
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