The MN girls draw is probably not as good as the boys. But generally I think the quality of the MN girls teams is higher than the boys (in comparison to the competition at Regionals.) That said, the girls with a chance to get out of their group are the 14s and 18s. All other teams should at least be competative.
Link with most Regional information is: http://www.region2.com/2008Cup/teaminfo.html
542 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 542 of 5424:11
Can you show us the recruiting rules in MYSA rule book?
I think the well-developed players are on the 93 Girld ODP team. They won ODP Regions. Apparently MN developed the 93 Girls better than any other state in the midwest.
Congratulations to the 93 Girls!
- CC Person (with no interest in working for MTA)
Regarding '93 ODP euphoria. How many R2 kids chose to prepare for USYSA Nationals rather than attend ODP camp?
4:19, you're in luck, as I just happen to have the 57-page rules book in my napsack. Sub-point (b) addresses it, and if you want to proclaim that BNG merely hands out announcements to the players you want, we will all laugh jovially at you:
1.3.4.1 PLAYERS BOUND TO MEMBER CLUB
a. A player is registered to an Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member the moment the player (or for a player less than 18 years of age, the player’s parent or guardian) personally or electronically signs the Affiliate Members or Extraterritorial Members registration form and submits a portion of, or the full amount of the fees required by the Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member, subject to 1.3.4.1.b. Affiliate Members or Extraterritorial Members may collect a separate tryout or evaluation fee and may require completion of a separate tryout or evaluation registration form solely for the purposes or tryouts, evaluations or other similar events. Completion of only a separate tryout or evaluation form does not bind either party to the Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member.
b. The open period for registered players who are considering playing for any Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member in the following season begins on August 1 of each year (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament – whichever is later). Affiliate Members and Extraterritorial Members, their
administrators, board members, coaches (paid or unpaid), parents, independent contractors and/or entities used for purposes of administering tryouts, evaluations or other similar events used to form teams for the following soccer season may not schedule such an event until August 1 at the earliest (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament – whichever is later). Tryouts or evaluations are allowed for U9 and U10 teams once league play is completed since there is no State Tournament for U9 and U10 teams. Advertisements, emails or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations or other similar events by any Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member are not subject to the August 1 restriction. An Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member found in violation of this rule will be fined in accordance to the MYSA Fees & Fines schedule set by the Youth Council. Individuals involved in the organization and/or running an event in violation of this rule are subject to sanctions: verbal or written reprimand, game(s) suspension, partial or full season suspension, temporary or permanent suspension. Recruiting a player who is bound to a club is also prohibited.
4:34,
So talking to a player or the players parents prior to August 1st isn't a violation but holding evaluations or tryouts etc is.
I didn't think there was a rule about talking to a player or players parents.
Thanks for posting!
The 2008 MRL Fall Season accepted teams list is out. And, due to the MN HS season there are only two teams listing MN as thier home-state participating (Note: I DID NOT say Minnesota teams).
The S-SM U16s and U18s will be playing and have been placed into the First Division.
This now means that both SSM teams will be eligible for MN State Cup next year. Wonder if the U16 girls will compete in State Cup?
Inquiring minds want to know.
420 LOL. 91 girls won ODP regions last year. They must be the best. Hilarious that anyone thinks an ODP Camp shows who is the best at anything.
voice, are you referring to the Thunder Festival later in July as a tool to recruit players prior to the MYSA policy of Aug 1? There are many other clubs who have jumped on the Bangu-style July "Festivals" to look at players. EP holds camps that do exactly that starting in June. Does MYSA police them? Nope, because the kids don't wear the power blue.
I can't wait to see what anti-recruiting rules CCs churn up to submit at this year's AGM. What's the best anti-recruiting tool? Stepping up your own programming. This is just another silly MYSA club driven rule to limit information given out to players to a window that is open for a few days. Ridiculous. Why can't MYSA let parents make a choice here. If they don't want to listen to other options then it's a simple "no thank you" to the recruiter. If they want to listen they should be entitled to do just that. Ridiculous rules based in ridiculous fear, rules that work against what may be in the best interest of the players and families involved.
Hmmm.....isn't that the same 93 MN ODP team that the SSM younger girls beat last winter and some poo-pooed as not being a very good side?
Interesting post above about MRL, I am waiting with baited breath to see what the Divisions will look like (looking for a little revenge on my daughter's old Iowa team).
SSMSouthCampus
4:58, the last line in the MYSA rule states, "Recruiting a player who is bound to a club is also prohibited." Players are bound (and gagged?) from August 1 to July 31. I would expect talking with that player and player's parents would be considered recruiting. Frankly, watching it happen frequently at State Cup in May was a bit much. As if winning virtually every age group wasn't enough, they had the gall to recruit when they weren't playing. Classy.
ssm - completely different 93 team as the new team was picked over the summer.
m - I believe the team you saw last winter was missing most of the goo girls who were holdovers this year at camp.
10:13-- And I suppose that the team completely turned over from last year-- get real?
I think that 11:08 is probably more correct.
Good job to those who were able to produce the recruiting rules. Let me point a couple of things out to everyone about the "spirit" of these rules. They are designed to keep teams from pulling players during an active season. That is the reason for the rostering rules for State Cup also-- to keep the good teams from stealing players mid-season for State Cup.
I don't see a single thing wrong with talking to people about your experience with a club/team so that they have a chance in the 24 hour window to make an informed decision about where thier child should play. ALL THE RECRUITING RULES ARE BULL. THEY ARE DESIGNED TO PROTECT THE INCOMES OF COACHES AND NOT FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE PLAYERS.
Someone earlier hit the nail on the head. If you are doing the right things for your players and providing the right environment for your players, don't worry about the masses leaving. You will have some attrition due to various reasons, but no one can recruit a happy player away from you.
SSMSouthCampus
anon 616 - Ep holds camps exclusively for current EP players playing in their program. There are no outside players from other clubs in their camps.
They hold outside player tryouts during the appropriate time frame and are only allowed to have no more than 10% of total players within the club from outside the EP area.
What policing is required. Please make sure you know your facts
Tomass, so maybe you should ask the new soon to be U16 coach why he is currently calling players from other teams to recruit them to his team. he is calling everyone and there sister to see if he can get them. If EP has a 10% rule is he hoping to get just one player to add to his team??
tomass - maybe at the younger ages, but the U17 girls might be 50% non EP players.
maybe 10% for the whole club which is buffered by 100% EP kids at the younger and lower level teams (C2, C3), but 10% at the older ages and higher level teams is less than 1 player per team.....highly doubtful.
I have personally seen Eden Prairie club coaches at EP high school games recruiting players from opposing team after the high school match.
I don't have a problem with this at all but do think it's highly hypocritical when you hear folks from EDP whining about other clubs recruiting their players.
the 10% rule is the total number of players across all the competitive teams. So yes one team can have more than 10%.
Coaches and parents doing this type of recruiting as described above is not condoned by the board or by the DOC.
As we all know it is hard to control the parents and coaches for all clubs, for all teams, at all the levels of play.
I prefer the method of letting your performance be your draw. It is always nice to have quality players call you to see what it takes to become a member of your team.
Wasn't a prominent club and HS coach fined within the past 2-3 years for illegal recruiting or illegally coercing his players to play for a certain club?
Didn't it involve threatening letters?
Does anyone remember the details?
Tomass is right. It's not just hard to control. It's impossible to control.
You can't stop parents and players from talking to opposing parents and players.
As much as some would like to legislate against people talking to other people it isn't ever going to happen.
People will make the best choice for their kids or let their kid make the choice she/he wants.
Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head making them sign on the dotted line.
tomass - you sound like the college coach announcing to the world how they run a clean program while completely ignoring everything going on behind his back. EP is no different than any other club - and personally I don't have a problem with that.
Good for the consumer (the players and parents). Everyone go forth and recruit. It either keeps your Club honest or kills them.
SSMSouthCampus
As far as the recruiting issue goes...it's a joke..what about guest playing?...what about practicing with a team?...the only relevence is for state cup and league(even this can be circumvented in particular leagues). The product has to speak for itself. Just like cars, not everyone want's a bmw. I think most kid's will gravitate to what works for them.
anon 902 - please read closer I admitted that parents and other coaches take it upon themselves to do things that may not be what is wanted and it can't be controlled.
A coach as the ultimate decision of which players will play on his team. So if stuff goes on behind my back that's fine, but no one is going to step on the field for me unless they deserve it or fills a great need. I never felt anyone is holding a gun to my head in EP to make personnel decisions.
tomass (9:02 here), my comments where directed more at your 12:33am post. Although most likely factually accurate, it came across IMO as a bit "pollyannaish" and naive. It sounded like something a college coach would be saying when even he/she knows the real world.
ok 902 or 1119 now - but how is it pollyannaish and naive when I worked the camp and saw it first hand?
The last thing I would think anyone would ever label me as is naive or pollyannaish. I guess I need to select my words more carefully and add some emotion.
Those that don't want a BMW have never driven one.
I have driven plenty of BMW's, excellent cars but I still don't want one - I want a Ford F-150 King Ranch Truck.
It fits me, my needs, and personality far better.
I think the point mnsoccer was trying to make
That's funny I have an F150 KR and want a BMW.
The kids will gravitate toward what they are exposed to. Sadly, many players only hear the negative from parents about a club or individual who have never trained/practiced or played with them.
I am pretty sure the Bangu product speaks for itself.
MTA would be an Alfa Romeo...very stylish and desirable, but nothing under the hood.
Shekki (VW)
Or a Hummer...a big waste of money
Maybe the car analogy was too much for this crew....It's nice to see that Shekki drives a folks car......and Tommy prefers a F150...at least they are consitent with there monikers!...
Maybe there was more to your car analogy than you will ever know...
Who would of thought?
Shekki Shekki Shekki...
Under the hood is a V-8.
As in 8 State Cup championships this year.
Now go away you little bigot.
The coach in question was the honorable WH. It was all over town.St Tomass a WH apostle can give you all the specifics. He knows about the memo and the girl in question.WH does own the players.
want to play in HS, better play for the CC.........
How come MTA is all of the sudden worrying about recruiting? Next season these MYSA rules will not apply to them since they will not play under MYSA.
Thomass,
Are you a board member for EPSC?
Are you a board member for MTA? Perhaps, AK, MA, or MC?
Listen guys, if you can't outcoach WH on the field, why don't you leave your clubs and join him? Lets stop resenting him for building a successful CC Program.
Read below, this is from the Bangu site. Why would anyone worry about what EP is doing when it is okay for BANGU?
Note to the Parents
"Recruiting" is frowned upon by a number of people and associations in the Minnesota soccer community who believe that they hold some sort of entitlement over kids who live in their zip codes. Bangu Tsunami FC is all about player development. Our club knows no boundaries nor believes that community clubs and associations have any right to hinder their members from searching out alternate, potentially higher level development options.
Read through our site. Our results speak for themselves, no matter what people may say to the contrary.
popeye - it's not that anyone is against EP or any club recruiting, it's the "we are pure and we don't recruit" hypocrisy that grates on everyone's nerve when it comes to that club or any other club.
anon 533 - Absolutely Not! I did that stuff for over 12 years at CC United. I just coach at EP's CC. I would never be on any board again for the following reasons:
1) Disagree immensely with the leadership of the MYSA and what they stand for and what they are doing for soccer in this state.
2) Tired of parents thinking I was their slave
3) Love to be a servant to the players and coaching fulfills that need.
4) Totally agree with the coaching program and curriculum that WH has instituted at EP Call me an apostle if you want but analyze the program's content and then tell me why it's not a good program or where you think the flaws are
Never saw the letter nor even knew the player but the MSHSL did reprimand and fined him. MSHSL is as PC as they come. Old news almost 3-4 years old but go ahead and get your shots in and beat a dead horse.
anon 515 - you must be a disgruntled parent if you believe WH participates in slave holding. Well you did say he owned the players or is that not what you meant by "owned" ? You know you should report that to the Federal Government because that is against the law now days.
653 - where was that said on this site?
wink-wink,, nod-nod.... IMO. You may disagree, but that's cool with me.
Coaches and parents doing this type of recruiting as described above is not condoned by the board or by the DOC.
As we all know it is hard to control the parents and coaches for all clubs, for all teams, at all the levels of play.
Hey bigot, BNG only won 8 State Cups this year? BNG should win 14 State Cups, as they are obviously so far above the rest of us little CCs. HOW DARE a CC upset BNG at THEIR tournament? Let me tell you, it felt really good for this parent.
Pompous ass.
Shekki
P.S. MTA is like a powder blue 1974 Ford Pinto...watch it blow up.
Predictions for MYSA State Tournament. I know many don't give this tournament the credibility of the State Cup (I agree ) but it is one of the major tourneys in MN where all MYSA teams playoff for a Championship.
List Champion and other your other top challengers.
U-12 Cottage Grove (Edina,EP)
U-13 Twin Cities Fire ( Bville,Tonka)
U-14 Dakota Rev ( Tonka,Blaine)
U-15 Bangu Wt ( ST Croix, Blackhawks)
U-16 Kelix (TCF, Roch)
U-17 PSA (Bangu, Wht Bear)
U-18+ I know too little about these teams to make a prediction.
Any Thoughts ?
U13 Girls - Burnsville beat TCF Fire in the Burnsville tournament rather easily, like 4-1 or something closet to that. Tonka, Burnsville and Woodbury are the true contenders.
I am pretty sure TC Fire was short 3 of their top players at that Tournament.
Brother! No one can just say nice game any more rather than make excuses.
Which clubs do the ODP girls who made the region pool play for?
http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/programs/girlsodp.cfm
Can somebody please provide a nice list of all the girls, rather than 1 name responses.
Thanks,
Brianna
2:22 seems like missing players is relevant when trying to make predictions for the MYSA state Tournament.
Burnsville, congratulations on your nice tournament, but more important your great undefeated district Championship.
Brianna,
here is what i know
ONGRATULATIONS to Caitlin Graboski of Woodbury, Jordin Melchert of Inver Grove Heights,
Allison Phillips of Vadnais Heights and Allison Spicher of Eden Prairie on being selected for the
1991 regional holdover camp
The first two play for WSC Inferno I believe?? The last two play for the Bangu Tsunami Stars.
CONGRATULATIONS to Kassey Kallman and Catherine Sessions of Woodbury on being selected
for the 1992 regional holdover camp.
Both play for WSC Inferno.
CONGRATULATIONS to Victoria Fuglister (GK) of Edina, Kaelyn Korte of Prior Lake, Amber Paul of Otsego, Foladshade Pratt of Rosemount, Lauren Reid of Woodbury, Rebecca Roberts of Lino Lakes, Olivia Schultz of Hopkins, Kathleen Thyken of Eden Prairie, Taylor Uhl of Eden Prairie and Hannah Werth of Bloomington on being selected for the 1993 regional holdover camp.
Fugilister, Werth, Roberts and Korte play for the Bangu U14 Blue team.
Schultz, Reid and Paul play for Bangu 15 Blue,
Uhl and Thyken play for EP 15's
Pratt plays for Keliix U16's
CONGRATULATIONS to Lauren Miller of St. Louis Park on being selected for the 1994
regional holdover camp.
She plays Bangu U14 Blue.
So the club breakdown for girls who made the Midwest Region Pool is this:
Bangu: 10
Woodbury: 4
Eden Prairie: 2
Kelix: 1
Congratulations to those girls and to Minnesota for the high number of girls to achieve that honor.
Has Minnesota ever had this many girls make the Region Pool before?
Maybe the state is making strides in player development?
One person..many monikers....
This will provide more fuel for those who discount the accuracy of ODP. Or for those who say our coaching is inadequate. Why do teams with multiple region pool players have out of state and regional success that ranges from average to poor?
The 93 Girls, with 10 players making the Region pool and more importantly winning the ODP tournament, shows that Minnesota is a top state in the midwest.
Perhaps the reason the MN club teams aren't winning the Regional Tournament is because the other top states consolidate their top players on one club team to a greater degree, basically sending their ODP teams to regionals.
MN is developing players. MN does have good coaches. MN has been closing the gap with Illinois, Michigan, Ohio and Missouri for the last 15 years.
...and winning the regional tournament is important why? Looks like ODP's doing its job of showcasing our top players? Looks like MTA just wants to take credit for it.
Shekki
Shut up Shekki.
Sh**y Weewilly
So the 5 training session each year that ODP holds is what is getting these kids prepared.
You would have to get a lot smarter just to be considered stupid.
How many region pool kids from the wonderful club you are so proud off?? My guess Zero!!!
Go away bigot boy. We don't want racists on our blog.
Shekki's post from 7/10/08
P.S. Most of the non-white boys are at least 2-3 years older than they say they are.
10/7/08 2:29 PM
Let's just ignore this hateful racist. This blog is better than that.
Woodbury 16's and Bangu 15's just have not been very successful when playing top flights at out of state tournaments. Yet they have multiple region pool players. Why is this and no TB it is not because other states consolidate more, the opposite is true particularly in OH and MO. a)Is ODP not a good barometer for evaluating players? b) Are these teams' coaches not getting the most out of their players as some of their parents have suggested? c) Are the rest of the players on their teams not very good? d) Are they unlucky? There has to be a reason.
Hmmm....
70% A
20% B
10% D
I would agree, these teams are well coached, things just haven't fallen into place for them.
The girls who won ODP regionals should be proud of winning that tournament as that is one of the toughest tournaments to win in the US.
Winning it is important because the better you do in the tournament, the more players the state gets in the region pool. Thus more MN players get better training opportunities. It's also a great confidence boost for those players. Confidence is everything.
People who don't think there is any value in ODP or in winning ODP regionals probably either A) isn't good enough to make the region pool or B) has developed beyond the region pool through alternate means.
the 9:06 statement is probably the msot accurate. The success of their team play translated into many more additional pool spots. Also, everyone must keep in mind that ODP is calendar while USYS is Aug-July. That dramatically alters most teams. Some strong regional teams could be "old" (key players who are back half '92's).
8:30 - what does TB mean?
8:36 - I would go 60%/30%/5%/5%
Are you kidding? Ask any of this years 93's or last years 91's and they will tell you that any top level invitational is tougher to win. If it wasn't we would win some of those also. Those tournaments draw top teams from everywhere, not just 4-5 decent teams from R2 states. ODP teams from SD,ND,NE,IA,KY, etc aren't very good. You don't see teams like that at strong national tournaments.
920 has that right, most of the big states don't put much emphasis on winning an ODP tournament.
I would go 60a,30b,10c.
It's one of the toughest. Not the toughest. MN parents are impossible.
MN has had above average soccer in in the Midwest for 10 years now. How many ODP tournaments has MN won? Very few. That is because it's a tough tournament.
Every team at ODP regionals is respectable, whether it's Iowa, Kansas, SD, Nebraska...well, maybe not the Dakotas. Regardless, it's a tough tournament and a good tournament to win.
Why the MTA supporter needs to repeatedly post the following, I do not know:
"P.S. Most of the non-white boys are at least 2-3 years older than they say they are.
10/7/08 2:29 PM
Let's just ignore this hateful blogger. This blog is better than that."
Why can't YOU just ignore this "hateful racist"? Sounds like you have some issues, pal. Have you talked with a professional about this?
Shekki
9:18 hits some of it right on the head. Some ODP teams have a stronger influence of first half kids. An example would be a '93 team (not sure about MN's) that has most of its stronger players currently playing U15 with a smaller amount of back half U14's. Other states could be flip-flopped. Do not take this as any kind of knock against U14 players, but on some teams it can make a difference.
Not sure why anyone would want to downgrade their accomplishment as obviously it is quite an achievement and they should be congratulated.
Shekki,
I'm not an MTA supporter. I'm guessing it's the new Minnesota Thunder club from other posts.
But I am a Hispanic soccer coach in a west suburban soccer club and I find your comment to be blatantly racist as much as you try to downplay it.
You painted all male minority soccer players with a broad brush and labeled all of them cheaters. My sons are not cheaters and neither are any of their minority team mates.
You would be best served by keeping your mouth closed on this issue.
Usted ha hecho ahora su cama en que dormir.
Congratulations to the kids. My fear is that it will further embolden the parents who keep posting this ODP stuff to further criticize their coaches for their club teams lack of success. "Look our DD's are on the region pool, it is the coaches fault they don't shine like that when playing with their club teams" ODP is NOT a better barometer of ability than how you perform for your team, merely a different one.
Any preseason HS polls out yet?
I'll take a stab at the Lake. My darkhorse is Jefferson as an early contender. They struggled with injuries last year but came on strong at the end of the season. Their defense should be awesome with a big stopper in the middle and some speed on the outside. Some young players could really be a great addition.Smart decision by coaching staff to get some extra time on turf fields! Lakeville South is always a contender. Someone needs to step up and fill some big openings there but I know there are still some talented star players for this year, one a U of MN recruit. Another team with a U of MN recruit will be Eastview. They lost 14 players to graduation and a head coach so this will be a rebuilding year with only 4 returning seniors. Will be interesting to see if the new coach will look at younger talent. EP is also a wild card. Their 17 premier team has struggled with an average summer season so it depends on what's coming up behind them. Not sure about AV.
No disrespect ....Somebody asked "define an elite coach".
It seems to me an elite coach has the ability to turn a legit athlete into a PLAYER.Teaching an athlete to THINK THE GAME,EXPLAIN HOW THEY CAN BE A STUDENT OF THE GAME and PLAY THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY.Some kids have the athletic ability but are not coached to utilize it the right way.
Hopefully the Thunder can provide the coaching necessary to raise the quality of our soccer to the next level.
That's a good and fair definition.
However, the athlete has to take responsibility for developing the necessary technical skills to be able to apply the athleticism and knowledge on the field. Without the technical skills developed at an early age, coaches are very limited with what they can do with a player. Most players in MN and in the US don't have the technical skills developed before they are too old.
Nobody taught Christiano how to do 30 stepovers. He taught himself. He's not the best player in the world because he "PLAYS THE RIGHT WAY OR IS A STUDENT OF THE GAME." He's the best player in the world because he developed supreme technical skill and has elite athletic ability.
Point being: Coaches don't make players. Players make players. There are very few 14 year old players in MN that have the technical skills to allow them to be coached to their fullest potential.
Luis, Shekki said "most," not "all," and I think we all know what he's talking about. Be proud of who you are, and don't let an idiot's ramblings get you down.
Duke
Luis - it's america speak english
9:53 - It's the United States. Educate yourself and be bilingual.
9:07, it's the United States. Educate yourself and learn the language.
As far as ODP being a barometer to draw criticism of coaching.....
one or two players do not make a strong Regional level team. ODP is a measure of the INDIVIDUAL skill/success of a player. Records in Regional level tournaments are a measure of the TEAM as a whole. The two don't co-exist.
This argument is a perfect example of the flawed thought process regarding soccer some on this blog hold. THESE ARE TWO DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT MEASURES AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS. Even if you had 4 Regional ODP and 2 National Pool players on your team the remaining "weak spots" can and will kill you when you play solid teams. Been there, seen that....daughter got the t-shirt (and I am not implying that my kid was one of the stronger players either-- so don't take this as me being arrogant).
SSMSouthCampus
SSMSC you are showing a complete lack of familiarity with the teams being discussed. There is NOT a wide gap in ability between the ODP players and most of their teammates. In fact there are players on these teams who are arguably better players than the ODP players.
actually i am aware of most of these teams and i would have to agree with SSMSC. there is and can be a large gap from the top (most likely odp) players on the club team to the weakest players. there is a sizable gap from the top players on the state odp team and player #18 on the state odp team. there is still a measurable gap between the top 3-5 players on any odp regional pool and players 33-36. there is a gap between the top players on the wnt and players 20-22. may not be as large as some of the other gaps, but yes, there is a gap. IMO and you do not have to agree with me.
I am also aware that of course not all the players on a team are the same. What I think 1206 is saying and that I agree with is that the gap is not that large and is no different for any other team in the region. There are teams where players 6-12 are better than here, but players 1-5 are better than here also. It is not like the region pool players listed are that superior to players 5-12 on their teams. I also agree there are some players on these teams who are more talented than some of the pool players.
Great.....here comes round 15 of the non-ODP players are just as good as the ODP players debate. Can't wait to see how this one plays out.
1:24 - if these kids are more talented than some of the pool players then why were they not selected?
124 has hit the nail on the head, except there are only 2 cases where I would agree with his/her final statement.
anon 136 because as stated that the non-ODP players (ones not interested in trying out) couldn't be selected because they didn't participate.
anon - I agree. Typically it is the parents of each side that debate it.
Tomass is correct and also the best players are not always picked, mistakes are made. It is not an exact science and opinions will differ even among the state and region coaches. I am not commenting on the current situation as I do not know these players well, but the political, inexact part of the process always has and always will be there. The thing about ODP is once you are in you are in for life unless you really lose it. Those coaches are loathe to admit they made a mistake on someone once they have been selected. They will receive the benefit of the doubt for as long as they are in the program.
tomass - where was it written that the non-ODP players were not interested in trying out? I kind of took it as they just didn't make it. If so, then my bad.
1:49 - if you are in it for life, then how did this year's regional pool go from 1 MN girl last year to 10 MN girls this year. The pool did not grow, so at least 9 kids did not repeat.
How many of these 10 actually made the region team which is what really matters? No names please just wondering about quantity.
149...Exactly right. As far as do the best players necessarily get picked? I would wager there are 10 sets of parents who think it is a foolproof system and many more who think it is broken!
2:18 - all 10 made the regional pool of 36. Regional team has not been announced. Last year only one player made the pool of 36 (so obviously there are at least 9 new players in the regional pool).
Might as well beat everyone to the punch with one post and get it over with......MN soccer is bad, MTA is evil, ODP is flawed, the Lightning are no good, there are no good coaches in MN, no team that every wins deserves it, no player who earns an achievement is worthy, MYSA - I won't even go there, SSM is as evil as MTA, etc......(yes, dripping in sarcasm).
229 you only batted .444 in my book.
The "in it for life" statement is referring to State ODP, not Region ODP. The Region ODP pool can change every year due to different region coaching staffs. Just like parents, coaches have different opinions on what makes a good player. As mentioned, it's not an exact science.
Also, similar to MNHSL All-Conference and All-State selections, if a team wins, they receive more roster spots. Since MN won the 93 tournament, they get more roster spots in the pool.
At camp, when you win, more coaches are watching you play because you play more games and the top coaches watch the top games. It's always important to win.
Regardless, an increase from 1 to 10 is drastic. There could be other factors: player improvement; MN coaches selling players better; changes in other state teams; previous pool players not attending camp.
On average, an ODP player will be better than a non-ODP player. Duh.
The only year things really change dramatically at state ODP is the first year (U15/U14) when each state sends just 18 players. I believe the year before there are two groups of 18 (18 first half birthdates, 18 second half birthdates for a total of 36).
Ms Solo the in for life comment is true of region camp also in that if two players look roughly equal to the coaches they will take one who has been on the team (not pool) before over one that has not.
When did they start doing this "holdover" pool? Back in the day (a few years ago) there were 22-26 kids in the pool during the week (no tournament, just training and friendlies) and then on the last day of camp they would announce the region team. Is there a financial benefit to R2 to keep an extra 18 kids around for a few extra days?
"On average" is the correct way to position the statement.
anon 154 - I think we are speaking from the same page. I have known many quality players that have gone on to very good college careers without having every participated in ODP.
I also know a few that were ODP and decided that they didn't want to participate in ODP any longer and still had nice college careers. I know of one whose dad was depressed for awhile when his daughter quit. He could no longer could speak of her in terms of ODP and gave him less to converse about. She could have cared less.
3:29 - That is correct.
334 I believe the tournament format with the expanded pools was instituted in 2006. Not sure though.
Last year I believe our girls 16 won ODP region 2 and went on to do well at national champ in TX. I think only one of our players made the reg pool.Lot of complaining to reg 2 officials. Maybe this has something to do with more players selected this year.
This tourn is in Ill and Ill players are always given preference regardless of skill.It's always been this way.
he best example is CS never was selected for a pool yet went to KS and became NCAA player of the year.
ODP has always favored ILL players no matter of skills and always will.Scholarships are the reason.
Reg 2 ODP is as political as it can get,always has been and always will be.Don't put too much emphasis on ODP.
Ah the P word. Its always the P word. I bet your dd wasnt picked for the Region II Pool or Team huh??
Looks like the 95's just returned from Illinois.
Any comments?
I heard 2 MN Girls were selected to play against the 94 Regional pool.
Anyone know which two?
LOL I am sure you do.
Kylie Schwartz- Wayzata
Dana Buckhorn- Bangu
Thought so.
Hey...I am in Trinidad on business and will be attending some of the CONCACAF U17 Women's Championships (for World Cup Qualifying spots).
Just curious if there will be any MN kids I can look for when I go to the USA vs. Puerto Rico game tomorrow night?
Didn't think so......probably just because of political reasons though, right?
11:53 - very constructive. you must be proud.
1021 that has been true in the past but as our teams have begun to do better nationally over the last 5 years ODP will start to open up for the younger ages to make pools and teams. That of course is assuming MN teams continue to do well out of state. If your teams do well out of state it is difficult for region coaches to discount you. We are seeing that begin to happen.
You know, I think its a lot easier knowing who ISNT in ODP than who are since all the Mommy's and Daddy's all cry about the P word cuz there little darlings didnt make the final cut.
1:42 errr MA, gee do you think if all the players went to MTA we'd get better nationally and ride on your coat tails to ODP heaven? What a nice little self serving pitch, too bad we aren't all stupid
Like I've said before, the MTA folks are slick snake-oil salesmen. They understand marketing.
Sooo.... think Favre is coming this way? Can I say that or is it recruiting?
ODP is a PLAYER identification system.
A "states" results are really pretty meaningless.
The goal of the program is to select individuals to each succeding level.
MN ODP success should be measured by how many kids keep climbing the ladder.
The best marketing program for any team or club is to win.
If you don't win at State Cup it's tough to market your program.
You can market your butt off but without the wins you have zero credibility.
2:16, err Stupid. You haters are all the same. Ignorant that people like MA are the only ones who believe in MTA. Their slick snail-oil salesmen will continue to forge the path for elite development in MN soccer and people like you with kids who can't dream of being able to participate will continue to spew your idiotic comments against something you can know nothing about from your limited experience.
Before you get your undies in a bundle that I somehow think that I'm better than you b/c my kid will be one of the ones who benefit from MTA, don't. I'm sure your kid is much better than my kid in many, many things. Soccer just isn't one of them.
If some of you had your own way no MLS team would have a youth system and we'd all continue on without rocking the boat. It takes visionaries to improve the Minnesota soccer game and MTA, SSM, and others are the current embodiment of cutting edge soccer development. 10 years from now it will be something else and all of us will look back on this and laugh.
Hey, everyone. 9:22's kid is a better soccer player than ours is. Mine are damn good players, and can also read, write, speak another language, do AP-level math and play other sports.
What a pompous ass, 9:22. Good luck with your MTA team...please make all of us happy and play as far away from Minnesota as possible.
MHA
Have you ever noticed that the 'Goons typically whine about the ignorant "haters," and then spew their own hate in the same post? Either that or they pretend to be "normal" people who think, "Golly, MTA sure sounds like a nifty program!"
They're losers, losers, losers preying on ambitious, well-to-do, over-involved-and-under-informed parents.
Duke
P.S. 9:22 is a piece of work, and yet, if you walk around a soccer complex, he's EVERYWHERE!
Hussein,
Is using the name "Hussein Abboud" and initials "MHA" an attempt at humor or just veiled bigotry?
Nice try but we know who you really are.
anon 8:45,
Yes. It smells like our little WeeWee friend doesn't it?
A leopard can't change his spots.
9:22..I have no dog in this fight, but I happen to agree with you, but your wasting your time trying to reason with these rec minded people. Remember, these parents on here that do not agree with MTA, SSM, DAP, ODP etc, they do not know what competitive competition is all about, they think its still 50-50 ball and its not. You want 50-50 training stay where your at, if you want the next level then its being offered. But for those that do decide to try some of the new things happening, they shouldnt be criticized.
943 and 944 are probably the same person. Haven't you got anything better to do, or has Shekki gotten to you that bad? Sheesh....
Support Shekki. He speaks for most of us.
U15PremierDad
Agreed U15PD. He speaks for most people who don't have any idea of what is really out there past state borders or what may be the most beneficial development option to our top players. Go on thinking that MN Premier is the end all be all of elite soccer.
And for what it's worth, I kind of like Shekki though I disagree with him. Someone trying to stir the pot and doing a mighty fine job. Let's try and leave the racism out of it though.
U15PremierDad
Shekki is the one who injected racism into the blog's dialogue.
Shekki's post:
"P.S. Most of the non-white boys are at least 2-3 years older than they say they are.
10/7/08 2:29 PM
Does that post speak for you?
Do you suppose that U15PremierDad is actually Shekki? Shekki is just shaking things up and setting bait. He is quite good at it actually.
Luis, shut up.
Shekki
10:35
To answer your question...
The two who were picked to play against the 94 holdovers were:
Kylie Schwartz from Wayzata
Dana Buckhorn from Bangu
That question was already answered.
But parents love seeing their daughter's name show up again and again. Big deal, so they played with the holdovers....
Shekki,
Shut up you whiny little bigot.
Shekki's post:
"P.S. Most of the non-white boys are at least 2-3 years older than they say they are.
10/7/08 2:29 PM
Don't you realize what a fool you are showing yourself to be?
Are you teaching your kids to hate just as you do?
Luis and Shekki need their own blog so they can cut and paste each other all day long and let the rest of us be.....
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