Time for the kids to take the field and show us what they've got. Good luck to all the players and teams. This should be a great cup with many outstanding match ups in the group stages.
Schedule and results here: http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/events/statecup.cfm#sched
414 comments:
1 – 200 of 414 Newer› Newest»who won the play-in games?
Did they play any?
No they play today (Sunday).
Rochester won 3-2 over Blackhawks
Rochester over Blackhawks was a U17 match.
Rochester over Blackhawks was a U17 match.
CRA beat Wings C1 3-2.
The referring was horrible but consistent. Sideline called obstruction when the score was tied 2-2. Did not think it was a good call as the defender was playing the ball and protecting his goalie. Worse, it ended up being the game winning goal. Hope the referring gets significantly better.
So far my projection is running true, Rochester vs. Coon Rapids.
I heard in U15 games Bangu tied a C1 team and coach made his kids run shuttles after the game...is this guy serious?
U15 Boys: Eastside 2, Bangu 0.
U15
East Side beat Bangu's second team.
Bangu's first team tied Eden Prairie (C1 this year, premier last year). No insight about the shuttles issue, hope that is untrue especially if EDP players were in vicinity.
Blackhawks 6, Saint Paul United 0. Very talented SPU player is sent off late in game as a result of two yellow cards.
Any word on U16 play in games from Monday night?
wings 1 Tonka 0
Blackhawks 1 Centennial 0
St.Croix 4 (or more?, I stopped watching) Gitchi Gummi 0
Thanks
post game conditioning was done by the Bangu team
Thanks tomass for putting that issue to rest.
Yes, I am sure that Herb Brooks would not approve of that training.
that same coach made his U-15 team (now the U17's) run shuttles for a half hour after a tie to Edina....
And that teaches the boys what?
I don't know if the Bangu coach did this to punish or send a message to his team, or whether it was a warm-down. But ANY coach who makes his team run shuttles after a match they were supposed to win is only teaching his/her players how to disrespect the opposition and lose friends (and maybe gain some enemies unfortunately). It is a classless exercise.
My son played for this coach last year and I can say that he was fine with that. The boys knew what was expected of them and they failed to deliver.
Welcome to big-boy soccer. Conditioning, focus and game fitness now replace orange slices and juice boxes.
Deal with it 11:48.
Oh, and it wasn't a half hour either. Unless you were there too, don't believe everything you read on here. I don't.
correct 12:22 it was not that long nor was it very brutal. Only that coach will know what will get the boys attention. I had no problem with what was conducted.
What responsibility does a coach take for making sure his team is properly prepared?
Folks are assuming that the coach initiated the post-game conditioning for this team.
He did. I was there. Read.
Anon 12:19
Anon 12:49 - Sorry, I was directing my comment to the scenario from last night. Not your example from last year.
I don't have a problem with any coach having their kids run. It is his team and the parent/club have put their trust in him. If they didn't like what he was doing he wouldn't be able to attract players nor would the club have him coach. I am trying to make the connection to why running shuttles teaches them to disrespect their opponents and losing friends. Please explain that logic?
1:48, here is the point I was trying to make. Some coaches are so upset with a team loses to a supposedly "weak" team that they make their players run etc. right afterward to teach them a lesson. As a player, I was made to run under these circumstances, and I have seen this happen in other situations. The supposedly "weak" opposition players are left to watch the supposedly "strong" team be punished for not getting the result. Again, this is not a warm-down. This is a statement, and it is arrogant and disrespectful after the competition. Basically the coach is saying, we should have beaten you. I think that is what the original poster was reacting to when he/she asked if the coach was serious. Save the statement for when the opposing players and fans are gone, and then run them as much as you like.
I remember having to practice after a game we had tied, 30 minutes of what the coach thought we hadn't played. You can probably guess the result of the next game we played. I think this coach has a few State Cups under his belt and do you think the kids will remember running after a game or state cup title. How do you know it wasn't the captains that initiated this torturous run?
I'm a parent who watched this game as an outsider. Infact, my kid plays for PSA. From what I saw, the Bangu team was just out coached by the EP side. Bangu controlled most of the possession, but they did not really have great chances at scoring. The two great chances were from PK's and the EP keeper saved one. Even though the Bangu team may be seen as superior, I think EP out smarted the Bangu team tactically on that night.
Great game EP!
Bangu coach took them away from the field they played to an empty one. I don't believe the intent was to do this in front of the other team.
Isn't it as important to teach kids how to be good losers as to be good winners?
It does not matter if you have the top team in the state or not. If you were supposed to win, you shouldd of. Woulda, coulda,shoulda! Making your team run afterwards? Are you Herb Brooks? Is this a professional team? These are teenagers we are dealing with not ADULTS. I disagree with this punishment for the Bangu Boys. Bangu will bounce back and win the CUP. Go Bangu players! Shame on the COACH!
big deal,they ran some after a game,wow,big deal.
Funny it worked for Herb Brooks with a bunch of amateurs, some who were still teenagers.
The players did not have to endure anything remotely close to a Herb Brook's lesson. This is much to do about nothing.
I guess he should have gotten the guitar out, started a campfire, and they could have sung songs and had smores.
Bloggers this is truly a pointless convo because there is always going to a disagreementto this situation. Lets focus on what this blog is about not about a lame punishment for a U-15 game that means nothing....
blogging is meaningless unless it can be pointless ;-)
yep the debate is like conservatives versus liberals.
Strange how a debate about showing class in the wake of a tough result is considered pointless.
Like I said earlier 9:54, this is big boy soccer now. Its done and over with. Deal with it and move on.
The coach did not make the team run after the game. It was a decision made by the captains after the coach finished his post-game review. In fact, the coach had left the team alone and moved to another area of the complex to chat with other folks. He only joined the team after he saw the boys finish their conditioning.
With this said, I have no problem with a coach that has been able to impart on 14 -15 year old boys a certain level of expectation and have it actually stick. The fact that the boys expressed themselves in this manner was not meant to disrespect any teams or parents, only to motivate themselves.
Enough said on the topic, can we look forward to the upcoming games?
Eden Prairie will hammer Bangu in the U17 Final...
If you're a player or parent anon 138 PLEASE STOP IT NOW.
you have to get passed your bracket first....
tomass I sense that you are the victim of a wind-up here. . . .
CDA will prevail.
Eden Prairie will go undefeated!
WE WILL ROCK YOU!
A friend just sent this article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/sports/baseball/30vecsey.html?_r=1&ref=sports&oref=slogin
Different sport. Cool stuff. The "pointless" exchange bove made me think of it.
Instead of having this WERE GOING TO KILL YOU GUYS!! BS lets acctually talk about who will win the brackets, semis, and finals, and WHY and give a legit reason.
Any word on the U18 Shattuck v AFC game tonight?
SSM 14 AFC 0
That has to be a typo, right? That's what the MYSA site has for a score.
NSSA 5 PSA 0
No typo.
AFC started w/10 men and their GK got a hard red early for trying to take out an SSM attacker.
Hasta la vista.
Off topic. I see the coach post and thread was removed. I don't really disagree with that decision. . . .
U15 - Watched the Midwest BNG team play last night. They won but not impressed with their play. Not the shoe-in that some claim to win - maybe their bracket but not the whole thing. Some other teams play much better together as a team.
U17B Bangu team scrimmaged and won against Buzz Lagos' academy team 3-0 last night.
Manny Sanchez is history over at Wings.... will be coaching his last on Saturday before leaving
Another one got chased out, eh? Is he going back to Tennessee?
He didn't get chased out. In fact, he is one of the best coaches here in Minnesota, if not, in Region II.
Manny had to leave due to family reasons. Please respect that.
Either way, he is gone. A nice farewell gift from his team should be in order - defeating mighty Bangu.
That would great to see.
Going out on top.
The Wings press release I read said his family had a diffiuclt time ajusting to MN. He has already been announced as the Coaching Director for the Roswell club in Georgia.
MYSA has cancelled the State Cup games scheduled for tonight.
Kudos to MYSA for making a decision early. None of this "show up at the fields and a decision will be made at that time" BS.
It would be good to have some constructive discussion regarding the performance of the teams and coaches after the conclusion of State Cup.
Bangu 1 - Wings 0 (U17 B). I watched this game from an outside perspective; clearly Bangu was the better side. Fun game to watch although it lacked many scoring chances.
wasn't there but heard Blackhawks- 2 Valley United- 1
Blackhawks scored 1 PK goal and Valley had one called back that was said to have never crossed the line. From what I heard both teams were strong though and could both advance but are in the much stronger group on the U16 side.
I was bored with the Bangu win...Wings didn't seem intereseted in challenging them at all with only one forward (who sometimes fell so low he was the 6th midfielder). Bangu looked bored, too...just doing enough to win and go home.
The Wings were playing cautious but actually had some opportunity's to put one in and tie the score. Bangu
is not out of reach for some of the more talented teams in State Cup. This State Cup will not be a gimme.....
The Super Eagles lose their first State Cup match...... is this a shocker?
The 16s boys is one of the deepest age groups MN has seen since the current 19s boys. To bad the talent is split across 5 or 6 good teams. It will make for an exciting State Cup tournament, but the winner will be slaughtered at regionals.
Probably shocked the egos for the overly enthusiastic parent group!
16 boys is a talented group and I would not bet on them getting slaughtered at regionals whoever the winner is.Afc are still a good team,St Croix has taken a big step forward today but still has plenty to do in the next two games.Dont rule out someone from the other group surprising the tournament.
AFC 16's had two starters sitting out for red card infractions from last June's regional semifinal game.
Too bad hte one U16 bracket is so lopsided. They are the top teams in the state in their age group.
How do you consider the one bracket the top teams in the State?AFC have the right to say that,the other 3 are good teams but have not won or even threatened to win State Cup.Lets judge the u16 teams after some games have been played.
Congratulations to Edina's U17 boys for pulling off a fine second half performance and beating EP today 3-2. Well deserved win and performance by some gritty lads. Very fine effort today guys.
Now thats refreshing,the Coach of the losing team congratulates the winner after a close loss,kudos Tomass.
Tomass you are a class act! Good luck to your boys the rest of the way...it should be a competative group.
Tomass,any other u17 scores?
The one side of the U-16s has by far the best 4 teams in the age group in it, St. Croix beat AFC today, and is currently in first place in their Midwest league group, Valley has already beaten the Wings and Bangu this season in Midwest league and they went 5-1 and advanced to the final tournament for first division teams to move up to premier level next season, The Blackhawks beat Valley today in tough game, the other side of the bracket has four very good teams, but it is unfortunate that the four best teams were drawn the way they were
By far the best?Are you joking?Valley is a talented team and has done well at midwest,B'hawks are unproven,what have they won?St Croix look good but theyve played only 2,3 games at midwest.Arsenal are a good team but might be low on confidence and forget how to win games.Dont underestimate the other group,Bangu are pulling together after some problems,Valley only beat Wings 2 1 at midwest,Bangu did the same today.I agree E.P. and Westside are probably more c1 level than the rest.
I thinks 8.33s team is either Valley or Eagles?
Don't build me up too much. I have my moments when the pendulum swings the other way.
I respect a team that earns it which Edina did today.
Sorry anon 759 I do not have any other scores to report. I left quickly after the game to go pout and have a pint. At least Big Brown won the Derby today, so I have that going for me.
Tomass what do you make of the 16s,did you see any or many this winter or at mrl etc?
I did not see much. My son's Tonka team lost a play-in game to the Wings team 1-0 but the score could have been much worse if not for some fine goaltending and poor finishing.
I liked the way the team played. They have one player who plays at speed extremely well.
Also like the way the Blackhawks play at that age group. I only saw St. Croix play at the State tourney last year. I though they would do well at premier. I don't believe the EP 16's are strong enough in the field but have an extremely good GK which will keep them in most games.
That's all I got to say about that
Thanks Tomass,thats a good outside viewppoint.
U17's
1 Bangu vs Wings 0
1 CDA vs Lakeville 0
3 Edina vs EP 2
3 Eagan vs CRA 0
? Roc vs Blackhawks ?
3?SCV vs KIK ? (SCV definately won just not sure of the score)
The boys U16 talent poll is very diluted.
It may have the most talent of any age group in the state but is spread across 5 teams.
The winner of MN State Cup will get pounded at regions.
Last year for all practical purposes the talent was mostly split between Bangu and Super Eagles but now it's spread out much more.
Given the circumstances any of the top 5 teams can win State Cup but will be humbled in Rockford.
anon 6:48 you assessment of the U16 is very interesting. Can you tell us what team received the spread of the talent pool? That will be interesting to know. Did SE lose players to other teams or did Bangu lose players to other teams?
u16 is talented and its spread amongst more than 5 teams,its actually 7.Any one of the top 7 can compete well with the u17 group,the top few could compete with the top few 17s.
While the 16s may not have a regional contender they do have a group of teams who have pushed each other to higher levels each year.At u13 91/92s went to the region final,u14 and u15 91/92s went to region semis,not many age groups can say that.16s are at a good level,enjoy it!
AFC and BNG both lost players to other teams. Blackhawks, Valley and West Side are all improved sides. I would say the brackets are split very evenly. I also agree that it is a deep age group but may not produce the as many D1 level players as others.
I am a U17 player, and my thoughts on our age group are that Eden Prairie, Bangu, CDA, and Wings all have very contrasting styles of play, but all have a legitimate chance of winning. Lakeville and Edina are not far behind. On the U16 side of things. I witnessed the AFC team play St. Croix and was not impressed by AFC but St. Croix looked ready to take the cup. Blackhawks is also a strong side, good goalkeeper, good forwards, they seem like they have some fun on the field as well. AFC was down two key defenders and it showed, but they also could not mount any attack on what seemed like a decent St. Croix defense. But you have to play the game, any one could win either age group.
Hey what a great post.
How are EP, Bangu, CDA & Wings styles of play contrasting?
I have seen some of the U16 games, but haven't seen all of teams mentioned. Blackhawks seemed very good, but thought they should have performed better against Centenial. I really like the Wings U16 team, I was on the players side as a field marshall and was very impressed with the demeaner of those boys and coach. I haven't seen Valley or Bangu play, but also have heard they are very good.
This is a great time of year as all of the teams still have a great deal of potenial.
From what i have seen and played against, Bangu is a few levels above the others in skill. Eden Prairie above in speed, Wings above in intelligence in play, and CDA in effort and intensity. All have different ways of keeping the ball, possessing up the middle, around the back, kick and pinch... ETC. but what i believe is that CDA and Bangu have a better system, more advanced coaching and more knowledge of the game. Dont get me wrong, wings and EP can play and beat anybody, they are both great, but as of right now CDA and Bangu look like the front runners. Im sorry if i offend anyone, thats just how i see it on the field.
The dakota rev tourney results are in. Ramsey U18 premier 4-0 and Tourney Champs. They didnt get scored on once. Kelix had a rough showing. They lost there star keeper. But apparently the new Ramsey team seemed to be gelling together. Well done boys
Who will get the wildcard for the U17s?
Any predictions for the U15 boys? I like the Blackhawks over Bangu.
Anon7:16 you played (and won) in a mixed U16-U17-U18 C1 bracket at Dakota REV. Go to State Cup and play the big boys then come back.
Any comments on the reffing at the State Cup?
For a youth event, it has been quite good.
Only thing i wish they would implement better would be the advantage call.
In my own defending third I don't want the advantage call if my player is tripped, recovers for a step or two and then proceeds to give the ball away on an errant pass. Call the foul in my defending third.
In the mid and attacking third please let the play play out. A mid field foul but the player stills delivers a great pass into the attacking third. Don't blow the whistle and bring it back.
I had a chance to see a couple of the U17 games this past Saturday. The Bangu-Wings game, which I watched mostly, was lethargic at best. Wings had one player who was fun to watch, Bangu had three or four. As far as team talent goes, Bangu are far better. It would have been nice to see some intensity in the game, but maybe the kids were all thinking about proms. I had more fun mowing my lawn on Sunday than watching this game. As far as CDA and EP go, not at the same level as Bangu. However, they are capable of stealing a win if Bangu continues not scoring. Teams will be hardpressed to score more than one goal on Bangu, but it might only take one. So, the over-under for all Bangu u17 games is 2, with Bangu winning every time if you take the over. Finally, Bangu's #10 is the standard for great players in this state at that age. Wings' #9 was good individually, but he didn't do much in terms of making his teammates look good. Bangu's #10 is the real deal.
Personnel, I feel bad for the U17 Wings team. Losing their coach during State Cup cannot help them. I think what you saw from #9 is the message the coach and his actions have instilled into his players.
"It is all about me"
Wings will get the wild card.
After watching the game, their #9 is undoubtedly the best, but they have some other pretty good players...The core(4 players of midfield) of Wings is really pretty good but the overall talent is pretty weak. They should win the next two games against two C1 teams.
Bangu is good, but they need to have better finishing!! They missed numerous opportunities against Wings, and if you look at MRL, they've tied 5 games.. The good thing for them is they have a solid center back and good keeper...Don't be surprised to see Bangu not as State Cup champions this year, one lucky goal for the opposing team and their lack of finishing-easy win for a less-talented team.
U15? The semi between Bangu and Blackhawks promises to be a great match. It has been the last two years. There is some great talent on both sides of the ball. Shame that we see these two teams match up only once a year.
Give the Wings some credit, they played hard defensively. They had one break down in their third or the match could of ended 0-0.
Anyone know how Rochester U17 did?
Bangu U17 vs. Wings
Bangu had many more chances. The side ref made a couple bad offside calls and at least one was a goal for Bangu. Wings played a good, solid, physical game.
when I saw the game Bangu had the ball 95% of the time
Bangu v Wings U17:
Bangu was far better. Wings was asleep. Wings played disciplined, packed in defense, but also a boring, undisciplined, low intensity, no pressure defense. If Wings is down 1-0 against a stronger club like Bangu, they better be putting some pressure on the ball. So yes, I would assume prom was on their minds as they are still only 17.
#6 on Bangu was the real deal (positioned in the #10 spot). #9 on Wings was talented, just lazy with no urgency to really attack. Bangu plays a very mature style of play for 17s, but limited in the attack with #6 being the only guy to really take anyone on. They were too satisfied to just serve balls into the box against a packed in defense.
U16 Group:
Very talented age group. Moving into next year, it would be great to see one team gather the top 18 players and make a run at nationals. They'd have 3 years to build for it. MN is hungry for a title. This would be a challenging team to coach though. On the other hand, the competition between all the teams is nice to see as well.
Putting all the best 18 (if that even exist) on one team does not a national championship team make. There is more to national championship than just gathering players. It is amazaing how last year the U15 did not have the talent and we talked about the U16 group and the Bangu defense. What happended to that talent pool now that they are U17? The talent is always there for the kids. What is missing is the incentive for them to want to sacrifice their other options. With no boys program pushing at the D1 level, MN will always be a door mat for WI, IL, and even NE. Putting nine talented doctors together would not produce a baby in one month.
"Putting nine talented doctors together would not produce a baby in one month."
No, but it would certainly generate some hefty fees!
Agreed. And on your point of 18 top players not automatically being title material, I said it wouldn't be an easy team to coach. I'm not sure any coach would want to dabble in that adventure.
If possible, putting together the top 18 players at the U16 age group with a coach who could control them could produce a pretty nice looking team (on paper). There's no denying that.
I'm not sure I understand the comment about "if the top 18 even exists." Are you saying you couldn't narrow it down to 18? Of course there would be questionable personnel decisions. There always are when forming select teams. National Teams seem to make it work (not always the U.S.).
And as though many of us Minnesotans know what it takes to make a national champion. When was the last time we won one? '90?
So I would say gathering the top 18 players at the most talented age group in years would be a decent start.
Take the best 18 players in the USA. Will alow you to play 12 (Two GK'S). We will play with ten (one GK").We will beat you.
DROGBA
16s are not the most talented age group in years. The 85/86 and 88/89 were all deeper and had more stand out players.
I've heard Ian Barker say the current U16s are the best he's seen in Minnesota.
There's no reason for him to say that if not true in his well qualified opinion.
I believe the U16s (Arsenal) have gone further at Regions than either of those other two age groups. Did 85/86 or 88/89 get to the regional semis?
I'm just saying, you make a super team out of that age group with a good coach and management and you'd think that team would go even further than Arsenal has in the last few years. And yes, Arsenal has lost their top players recently, but that happens in every state.
I have been preaching funneling the top age group talent on to a select MN team for the past few years. It doesn't promise you anything but a better team representing the state than what will represent you currently or what has in the past.
I agree the top talent at U16 is extremely good and too scattered among the top 5-6 teams.
I agree, it has been done on the girls side for several years now. There is no reason it could not also happen for the boys.
tomass - isn't that called MN ODP?
there has not been any interest for anyone to do for the boys - no D1 money available in MN. girls have the UofM and it is a big incentive to want to work hard to get to the U. boys have nothing so show for their efforts. it is also not cheap to do since MN is too far north and the cost of competition is too much and not scholarhsips for boys soccer. have fun it is not going to happen this year. Ian barker and the MYSA did not even try to assist in the cause but Ian can say the talent is there and whta did he do to bring it together - not a thing - so he moves on and now John curtise - nothing is going to happen for boys.
Gee, that was certainly positive. NOT.
So there isn't a D1 program in Minnesota. Big deal. Kids are still getting recruited out of Minnesota and are ending up with D1 scholarships.
MN ODP (at least on the boys side) is so-so. Are there a lot of talented kids there? You bet. Are they getting decent coaching at ODP?
Generally, no.
Boys coaching at club level generally stinks in this state. The girls side is a bit better.
Minnesota ODP teams only practice a couple of times together before they go to camp and get rocked. A lot of other states form an ODP team and then will do multiple tournaments and have an ongoing practice schedule.
The issue is not so much with MYSA--it is with the clubs that steadfastly refuse to have their top players siphoned off to a "select" team. That's why guys like Curtis "don't do anything."
They do the best they can with what they are handed from the clubs.
anon 1258 - nope, ODP does not accomplish bringing the best of the best together, constantly train together. constantly playing games together.
anon 623 - some good points but it is an MYSA issue, because they are the ones that could bring the clubs together to understand what real player development is about.
"Cost of competition is too much because we're in a northern state?"
Is that why the U16s have 6 teams willing to travel in the MRL?
I don't think our state's location has anything to do with our ability to put together a select team of our top 18 players and make a run at nationals for the next three years.
maradona I agree, and I think it could also be said for most of the age groups and with both genders. Bangu has done a very good job at localizing talent but have not put the best of the best together on the girls side. Some very good coaches there but they lack the facilities for a plan like this.
The Thunder plan was an attempt to begin the process, but without MYSA showing any leadership it was not going to happen by an outside, private business. Clubs viewed it as a threat. MYSA has to create it and then possible turn it over to the Thunder (if you want a European style plan)
Without a centralized, well run, State Select team we will never get the best talent on one team. Come try out for the state select team. If you make it great, if not, then go back to the team you came from. Making it one year doesn't guarantee you a spot the next year.
Players trying out would have to have an invitation or a recommendation by their coach, club, or director of coaching.
Tomass,
I can't think of a single age group on the girls side from U16-19 where the best of the best are not together. Of course there is an exception or two at each age group, but you will always have that regardless of how you do it. And the exceptions are in the second half of the teams not the top 5-6 true impact players at each age group. The only exception I can think of is one player at U18. Pulling all the best players together can be done and currently is at 3 different clubs.
Tomass, Maybe you and I can put this together. "Making it doesn't guarantee a spot next year." Imagine the competition this would cultivate amongst the players at the U16 level for example. Wait, this is supposed to be what ODP does.
But as you hint at, there would be all kinds of challenges with doing this. Quality facilities is one. A good coach to harness these players another. Organized management. Financial aid for some of the top talent. And it all would have to start with 18 players "wanting" to do this in the first place (they might not even want to leave the current structure).
I agree with 9:58. The top talent at the older girls ages has been almost completely brought together on one team. We also see that it does not have to be at Bangu, Woodbury and St. Croix have also accomplished it. Why have the boys been unable to do this? I know there was an attempt to consolidate PSA and Bangu U16's last year but it failed. Why? and why not at other ages?
anon 958 and 1036 - almost completely brought together? But I still think there are those diamonds in the rough that are out there to make the current teams better.
I would be curious, and I'm asking in a respectful way. Are you expressing a parent opinion or a coach's opinion?
I would think it didn't happen for a number of reasons. Some being:
1. The current structure of 6-plus really good, established squads is pretty cool.
2. Some parent coaches and clubs that don't want to "give up" their top players to a new team.
3. It would take a special coach to meet the expectations put on this team and to handle the ego management.
Just a few thoughts. It would be nice to see it done with the U16s earlier rather than later to really take advantage of it.
Having had a player involved in ODP for the past couple of years, I would tell you that I do not think much of MN ODP. MYSA has never put any real effort into the development of ODP and it has always shown when we compete at the regional level as well as at the ODP Regional Camp. Compared to the surrounding states MYSA does practically nothing for this program.
Now add to that the twisted relationship of SSM/ODP/MYSA. Regional coaches work for SSM. Youth Council members send there kids to SSM. Surprise, surprise starting last year, SSM started sending athletes in mass to ODP. Now the MN boys do not only compete against to be the top 18 players from MN. They also compete against 4-8 players from different states and regions. Of which as far as I noticed none made the Regional Pool. I could understand it if these boys were all regional pool players, then you could say that MYSA did have much of a choice. Nevertheless, that has not been the case. As we send boys from IA, IL, and SD who have never made the regional pool and in some case never made their own state ODP select, the MN boys sit at home getting ready for the start of High School Soccer. The SSM boys are now on MN ODP team and the MN Boys get a real world lesson on how big money and influence limits opportunities for long-term development.
Soccer for boys in MN is dismal, and I would not expect it to change any time soon. MYSA does not have the leadership capacity to start looking after the players from MN nor the desire to help develop the MN players. Thus far, MYSA seems more interested in collect their checks and filing lawsuits then doing anything on a soccer field.
Tommas, I know you have always promoted the MN hockey structure for MN Soccer. How does SSM hockey influence MN Hockey?
Are the SSM boys making MN ODP due to "big money" or due to being better soccer players? I don't know. The top 18 players currently in MN should be the 18 players on the ODP roster, regardless of what state they are coming from.
Should SSM boys not be considered MN boys? If I sent my boy (I don't have one) to Spain to grow as a person and player, shouldn't I hope that the Spanish systems could immerse him in all the opportunities possible, not segregating him as an American. Should he not be allowed to participate in a select Spanish program because he is from the States? Hypothetically speaking.
I don't think the "real world lesson" is on big money. It sounds like some MN boys got cut for some SSM boys. Maybe the MN boys just need to work harder and become better soccer players than the SSM boys. Who cares where you're from? Just play and let your skills do the talking.
tomass, I can't speak for 958 but I am neither, I am probably a lot like you, an interested observer who also coaches but not any of these teams. I like what has been done in consolidating these age groups. Are there other players who could give these teams more depth than they have now? Probably but certainly there are no difference makers out there that would greatly improve any of these teams. My wish would be that this could be done outside the club system as it inspires too many slings and arrows. Not ODP either. Maybe some kind of state run system. I do hope the boys can figure something out soon.
SSM does not influence Mn hockey except from two stand points. It is in the state of hockey and is another jewel in the state's hockey crown. The best hockey academy in the country located here in MN.
Having SSM in the state provides some top quality competition for teams to scrimmage and play against. There would not be time for a SSM hockey player to participate in the MN Select program and they may not view it as a viable development option. The SSM hockey program is way ahead of the soccer program there. They soccer program is just in the infancy but has the right plan in place.
I have always said ODP is not an answer to any of the state's soccer development problems. It is an antiquated system and should only be looked at as another training option.
It very easy to say the MN boys need to work harder. Most of these boys do train 9 to 11 months a year (my son team takes Dec off) three nights a week. However, the reality is the MN boys do not have a trainer sitting on the sideline, there is no goalie coach and the conditioning trainer is the paid head coach. Watch how many coaches step off the field at State Cup when the U18 SSM boys play. Watch how many coaches/trainers the other teams have and compare their qualifications. I guess that part of the big money huh? When the coach at the school is one of the regional coaches, I guess I would consider that influence. Both are just one of the problems with ODP and gathering up the top 18 players in the state.
So, let us look at these superiorly trained SSM players. Did these boys perform and do significantly better than in previous years? Nope. Did more boys make the Regional pool than have in previous years, only slightly and I do not believe any of them were the out state SSM players. So, what was gained? Nothing. What was lost? Experience to the MN players that will more in likely be sticking around MN and developing the future players in MN. The SSM kids are competing in the MN ODP in order to develop SSM program and pacify the SSM parent into spending the big bucks.
Now, the MYSA/ODP/SSM relationship is a just a symptom of an already busted program. You failed to notice that I also said that MYSA ODP program is nowhere near, what offer developmentally for players in surround states with similar populations. Is it a club problem? Could be, but again MYSA does seem to want to expend any energy on changing it. Rather they seem to consistently take the road of lest effort. Any program at any level is only as good as the amount of effort you put into it.
Now for your ultimate insult, my son was cut from ODP. Why is it whenever someone on this blog points out problems with a program/club/coach it always must be because the kid was cut? Well, so far in this case. No he has not been cut. However, yes, the program is still broke and does not function well. Why does he do ODP? For the same reasons he plays high school soccer. I do not think anyone here would say HS soccer is a great development tool.
You have to love all of the conspiracy theories in here.
My favorite: "The SSM kids are competing in the MN ODP in order to develop SSM program and pacify the SSM parent into spending the big bucks."
Huh? Doing MN ODP is going to cause a person to spend money at SSM? Hilarious!
Predictions for the weekend...
Um, let's look at the conspiracy theories with a little common sense.
If the SSM coaches are Region 2 coaches...then maybe they are quality coaches?
You can't honestly believe that the "big money" is taking spots away from more deserving "MN" kids. Ever thought that SSM is bringing in quality players rather than buying these kids' way onto ODP teams? I can tell you that my kid recently tried out for MN ODP, and I have not yet been invoiced for "ODP installment" fees. That was never a part of any promise that was made to me. As a matter of fact, mine "gave up" a State ODP spot to attend SSM (in a convoluted, unfair way). So, the only alternative to stay in the ODP program-- trying out in MN (which is completely legal and acceptable) was the only way.
The "real world lesson" that the MN boys are getting-- quite frankly-- is that nothing is a given. You are not entitled to anything, you have to earn it.
To insinuate that any of the SSM players are not worthy of ODP slots is just ridiculous. How many of the U18 SSM games did you watch? I would challenge anyone to have found a player on that SSM team which clearly does not have what it takes to make a State ODP team. I saw two and a half of the three games personally, and can honestly say that there was not a single kid that I could reasonably say "I just don't see any skill".
4:48 seems to be complaining now that somehow it isn't fair that SSM has GK coaches, trainers, and specialized coaches. That is also absurd. If your current situation doesn't have the type of training/trainers that you feel your player needs....why are you still there? I guess that some must feel as though if Club A can't have a dedicated GK coach, then no one else should have one either? That is a great way to elevate the level of soccer....let's all train to the lowest common denominator.
If my child is skilled enough to be accepted by MN ODP, I'll be happy to let you know if I recieve an ODP installment fee invoice.
You pay the $45 tryout fee and then, what, over $500 for the camp, depending on age.
Touche, SSM South.
Bottom line: work harder, play more, get better.
Ronaldinho didn't need an army of special trainers to develop his talent. All he needed was a ball and a beach. Stop playing video games and just get out and play if you truly want your game to be better than ol' money bags.
There are so many opportunities for boys to get out and hop into pick up games at parks with Somalians (FOR FREE). That would be better training for these suburban boys than any SSM Trainer can provide.
so much for EP going undefeated in state....
From watching St. Croix play the Kickers last Saturday, I think that St. Croix can compete and even beat Bangu. They have a solid midfield that is even or better than Bangu's midfield, one of the I think Quinn Botthom? is very good and controls the midfield. The Deffense and the goalie are all outstanding. It will be a very interesting game this Saturday, probably the best of the tournament.
Prediction St Croix 2 Bangu 0
Quinn,
Bangu will win.
I don't have time for this stupidity.
SSM-South Campus - I feel so bad that your kid had to give up his ODP slot from your home state to come to a 35K a year private school. Your right he deserves everything you can buy him. He's earned it. Bottom line, I don't think your son is better than the MN players. He proved it last summer at ODP Regional Camp.
Maradonna - Before you tell the boys to go play with the Somalians (FOR FREE) you better be sure they will welcome the guys. I've seen two games when the police were called and a player/players were charged for assault. Both were Somalian nationals. One in the adult league and one at USA Cup. Look on the MYSA web site for the life time suspension. I think the boys would love the opportunity but I fairly confident they would not be welcomed. Watch some HS soccer at the inners ring schools and you will see what I'm talking about.
11:46, did they kick you out of that anger management course again?
I'm white. I grew up in the burbs. I don't speak Swahili. And I play in pick up games with Somalians at parks with a smile on my face every time they do a quadruple stepover on me. It's the most fun soccer there is in this state.
If the 'boys' were willing to play with a smile in pick-up style, I'm sure they'd be welcome. I haven't seen any kind of "assault" at pick-up games.
There's just always an excuse not to play.
"Make sure they welcome the boys."
I just can't get over that. Sounds like something a mini-van driving soccer mommy would say.
Would be a big suprise if a Quinn Bottom-led midfield for St. Croix was even or better than a midfield with #6, Dula, Brent Kallman and Paco. They may be hard working, but not as skilled as this group.
I agree St. Croix will pose a threat to Bangu - and could pull off the upset...but that will only be if Bangu shoots itself in the foot.
U17 games for Saturday:
Wings 2-0 Kickers
Bangu 1-0 St. Croix
Eden Prairie 2-1 White Bear Lake
Edina 2-2 Rochester
Lakeville 3-0 Coon Rapids
Champlin 2-0 Eagan
I also can see St Croix giving Bangu a tough game. I would have to disagree about the St Croix Midfield being better than Bangu, but Quinn is an outstanding player and is about as good as any midfielder in the state. Also my own personal opinion the goalie for St. Croix is the best goalie in the state hands down. Bangu will have a VERY tough time getting past this keeper.
St Croix 4 Bangu 1...you heard it here first.
Bangu 6 St Croix 0...Quinn gets megged 10 times by #6...you heard it here first :)
For a while, I was impressed with many of the recent posts here on the boys thread (people actually wanting to know how the games have been going and what to look for in upcomign games!). And now this stuff. Unbelievable.
First, persons from Somalia are Somalis. They are not Somalians.
Second, I personally have played many times in pick-up matches with Somalis and other East Africans. Never once did I experience any sort of hostility. These Saturday morning games always have been a blast, a great way to start the weekened. My sons have played, and they were welcome, too.
Third, I have watched inner ring city high school games. I have no idea what you are hinting about, 11:46. I see elbows flying and dirty tackles and hear smack talked in suburban matches far more often that I see inappropriate behavior in inner city matches. I would say that immigrant players by and large seem to have more respect for the game than others.
There have been incidents involving foreign-born players, but the same thing happens with players who were born here. What hasn't been noted is the use of abusive and, I hate to use the word, racist language at minority players. I am a white male who has heard these things myself, and I have spoken to immigrant and minority players who have heard these things, too.
The bottom line is that I hope we are able to see some beautiful soccer played this weekend, no matter who is involved.
Now for the U17 Sunday games...
Maradonna
It was meant to sound like mini driving soccer mom, (it was a lame attempt at sarcasm) but it is better than sounding like you rode the Green Bus with Mr. Wellstone.
"And I play in pick up games with Somalia’s at parks with a smile on my face every time they do a quadruple stepover on me” Please let the rest of us in on the location of these great pick up games so we too can enjoy the fool show.
Maradona,
remember to to defend the ball not the body movement. If the ball is not moving you should not be biting (will work with inner circle too)
Sunday U17 Scores:
Bangu 5-0 Kickers
Wings 1-1 St. Croix
Eden Prairie 3-1 Rochester
Edina 2-1 White Bear Lake
Champlin 4-0 Coon Rapids
Lakeville 4-1 Eagan
So who is going to be in the semi's and then finals for the 17s?
Where did St Croix come from? They were a average Classic 1 team last summer what has changed that they are going to beat Bangu...... or was that post just a player blowing his own horn.....
Don't know how good SCV mid field is but....Remember Bangu midfield is the same one that the Wings had last year. The same midfield that lost to CDA, Lakeville and EDP. There surround cast has improved but they still can't find the net and from what I saw has no pace. Right now, I would say Bangu sucess has been created by their goalie and defense.
You forget the #6 for Bangu and Kallman...that changes the scene for the two former wings players - not at all the same midfield.
Semi prediction:
Bangu vs. Eden Prairie
Champlin vs. Edina
Final:
Bangu vs. Champlin
Champion:
Champlin
Wings will be in the semi bro..
They're playing kickers on Sat...and then St. Croix..too Classic 1 teams..give me a break
two**
do the math and upcoming game options - wild card at U17 could go deep into the tie breakers
any one upset of a C1 team over a premier team could throw things into a bigger tizzy
Inner Ring: football greats from Argentina are named Maradona, not Maradonna, since we all need to show the proper respect on this blog.
U17s
Wings looked like a lame duck against Bangu. Bangu had the ball for 80% of the game while Wings played a slow, packed-in 4-5-1. Should have been 5-0 if someone on Bangu could learn the quadruple stepover to score some goals. Wings will have to be better than that game if they want to move on.
Wings didn't start playing a 4-5-1 till the second half..and eventually they moved #9 up to forward..
its not what you play,442 etc,its how you play it,451 becomes 433 etc
While the SSM/ODP/MYSA discussion does not seem to fit this State Cup forum, it did bring up some good points on both sides of the issue.
Consequently, I did 10 minutes of exhaustive research and came up with these numbers:
Seventy-two players made the initial cut for the '91,'92. and
'93 boys' rosters. Of this number, ten were from SSM. Six of the ten are from out of state.
Two are from California and one each from Wisconsin, Canada, Kentucky, and Ohio.
I tend to think that, while it is unfortunate for the six Minnesota kids, it is best to pick the best players. They are apparently eligible and I have no doubt that they are very good players.
If there are hard feelings, direct the comments to MYSA. Let's not demean players who are only taking advantage of an opportunity to improve. After all, it would be tough for a California player to attend ODP tryouts/practice while going to school in Minnesota.
11:46-- I have a hard time believing that this kind of crap comes from the mind of an adult. First of all, my child is not a boy. Second of all, don't judge me or my child based upon where she goes to school and what the published tuition rate is. Third, I don't understand your comment about she can't be better than the MN players because she "didn't prove it at Regionals last year".
You are what is wrong with youth soccer in America today. Angry parents who can't respect the fact that some kids are willing to do whatever it takes to pursue what they love.
You don't know me....you don't know my child....
The point is that there are rules specifically governing these players' ability to earn a spot on a MN ODP team. My child is just as eligible as your child. But, I suppose that the school "bought" someone off at USYS to get this rule in place? Sometimes the ignorance of the posters makes me absolutely sick.
Anony 1:25 PM, What game were you watching? Wings were clearly playing with one up top in the FIRST half, and most of the second. Looked like they tucked a player underneath their striker, but it surely was NOT two forwards.
Well said SSM South Campus. I really don't understand why some people can't accept that people like to take what they love to another level.
Stay out of other people's business. It's parents who make excuses for their children that are the problem in youth soccer. I feel bad for the child. If your child doesn't win a championship of make an ODP team get over it - look at the positives. Did your child improve? ARE THEY HAVING FUN? GET OVER YOURSELF AND YOUR CHILD - THEY ARE NOT THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE!
Also did a quick check regarding SSM & ODP. On the '91 & '92 teams, I counted 10 players from SSM. Five are from out of state and Canada. That also means only 10 players from roughly 36 players, chose to try out for MN ODP Select teams. I would assume from what SSM-South Campus has to say that those other 26 players all are able to participate in ODP soccer in their own states.
SSM-South Campus, no judgment good luck to your daughter, but let’s take a moment to think of the development of soccer in MN, not just your daughter. With that as the mindset, it seems reasonable to me, that the MN ODP Select team be comprised of as many MN residents as possible, for the following reason. ODP biggest success has not been necessarily in identify national players, but its biggest success has been exposing players to high level coaching and instilling excitement into those players as well as their communities and local clubs. On this blog, everyone lambastes the lack of quality development in MN boy’s soccer. That was even how the topic of ODP was injected into the State Cup thread. I would say that unless we invest in those MN boys their development will not improve.
As most of these boys, including the SSM boys have no or little chance of making the Regional Pool team, I would have to ask, why is so important for them to go to ODP Regional Camp? I would not think it would be to get exposure to College Coaches, I would think SSM gets those players plenty of college exposure. So, why is it so important? Gripe and complain about over involved parents all you want, but recognize who they really are.
The point still remains if it is worth having it is worth earning regardless who the competition might be or where they might be from. If anything the fact that MN players did not make the team over those from "away" should be additional incentive for the MN players to work harder. I'll go back to my original premise though; ODP is neither Olympic nor real development.
Regarding college coaches - maybe you gain interest as you would at a showcase tourney, but when it all comes down to the soccer resume, it all becomes erased when you step on the pitch for the first day of college practice.
Question about ODP. My son's team had several players who declined to do ODP tryouts because they did not want to do anything to impact their team's state cup run. Several of these players have gone to regional camp in prior years, so they are at least prospects. I am not familiar with the timing constraints MYSA might be under. Can anyone explain why MYSA does these tryouts during state cup? As I looked at the schedule this year, it was interlaced with group games.
Tomass, I usually agree with you but I think you missed the mark about ODP. The primary vehicle for coaches to see high level players is Regional Camp. They have the opportnity to see 200 quality players in one location over a 4 or 5 day period. They can watch training sessions and game. The summer timing of region camp is also a big draw. Coaches don't have their college teams to worry about. If they are coaching a club team in the summer, they are often idle during ODP camp activity (at least for the older age groups.)
ODP certainly doesn't guarantee anything. And good players are left off the squads. Obviously coaches bias in selection of teams can and does come into play.
I do agree that the actual development is limited. Although that has changed a bit over past few years. It certainly helps to train against/with the best in your state, even if it is for just 6 or 8 sessions a year.
Yes showcase tourneys are also great places to be seen. But the talent pool and competition level is more thin.
It may be tough to even get a committed spot on a college roster going into college training camp. ODP experience and exposure can certainly help you get the invite, but I agree that performance during pre-season camp and training sessions will determine your status on a college team.
any word on Saturday morning games?
u16
Valley 1 Eagles 2
Bangu 4 EP 0
Blackhawks 0 St Croix 0.
It would appear that with a win in game 3 S.E.'s will be in the semis.
Valley could be the spoiler for St Croix?
Bangu with two wins looks likely to be in the semis.
It's too bad the referees decided the the Valley United vs. Arsenal game, refereeing was terrible the whole game both ways, but it was unfortunate that both SE goals came late on terrible non-calls. It was a hard fought game between two very even sides and it is unfortunate Valley was not rewarded for out playing the SE today
It would appear that with a win in game 3 Blackhawks will be in the semis.
Any U17 Results out there? I know
Bangu 0 St Croix 0
Wings 7 Kickers 0
U-17
Bangu 0 St. Croix 0
In a game that was poorly officiated and got out of hand late, bangu was clearly the better team. St. Croix stayed in the game playing a 8-2 formation it seemed like and kicked it up the field everytime they could. Bangu was unfortunate not to have a finish as they had numerous scoring opportunites, some turned aside by a very good St. Croix keeper. I would enjoy watching these two teams play again in the semifinals...
Any results on U15 Bangu vs Blackhawks?
U-17
Rochester 1
Edina 1
U18-U19 premier league, Who is your pick to win it all? Where will the other teams finish in the standing? please respond :)
U17
EP 1
WBL 1
Anon 4:32
I don't think anyone even think about league. State Cup on the boys side is as tight as I've ever seen it. Big Games tomorrow will be:
10 am U16 Boys SE Vs BHK
Noon U17 Boys have several deciding games going on. SCV could pull one of the biggest upset in a long time and get the #1 seed w/Bangu getting the wild card spot.
Lets hope for some good weather and clear eyed ref's.
no games tomorrow...
Tomorrows game between edina and white bear lake will be a good one. neither team was predicted to win the group, because of eden prairie, but whoever wins tomorrow will advance to the semis.
prediction: Edina 2 Wbl 1 in a close one.
word on the 18's??
The U18s were completed last weekend, with SSM winning it--right?
Final was a pretty good game against Valley United that ended 2-0.
U15 Bangu v. Blackhawks is next Saturday 5/17. Should be a fun one.
U17s - Who will get the wild card?
Group A: St. Croix can clinch the group with a 2-0 (or 3-0) win over Wings. A 1-0 result will likely force a PK shootout between St. Croix and Bangu to decide the group winner (assuming Bangu handles Kickers 3-0). If St. Croix wins, the wild card is coming from this group. A tie or loss and everything opens for the other groups.
Group B: Edina is in control, but that could change if Rochester beats Eden Prairie by 2 goals and Edina ties White Bear Lake. No chance for a wild card from this group.
Group C: Champlin are through to the semifinals. A wild card could come from this group for Lakeville or Eagan. The winner of that game has a shot if Wings ties or defeats Coon Rapids. A tie will not be enough to guarantee either of those teams advancement, however.
Predictions:
Bangu (Group A winner) vs. Champlin (Group C winner)
Edina (Group B winner) vs. St. Croix (wild card)
Sorry - wings must tie or defeat St. Croix - not Coon Rapids. (Group C comments)
reffing has been really good at State Cup that I have seen,even in a loss!
anyone have the U16 results from today?
I sorry I don't think the reffing has been very good. Our last team of refs, fell prey to letting the coaches and spectators make the calls. One of the refs on the sideline was seriously out of positions several times. While these calls did not in the end make an impact on the game, it certainly could have.
Funniest call of the tournament. Tall player with ball on his foot is looking up field for the attack. Small/Short player racing to catch up to him, runs into his back and falls down. Ref call the foul on the tall player? Even the kid on the ground laughed.
I've heard the new coach for the Wings U17 Boys team is really inspiring the boys. As time passes I think they may step up. I'm predicting a tie or a win for the Wings against SCV. Which would then make Lakeville the wild card.
Bangu vs Lakeville (I would really like to see that game, I think Lakeville could be the team to slip one in against Bangu)
CDA Vs Edina
no games today anom 4 14.
Bangu are in the semis
West side are in the semis
Valley are eliminated
Blackhawks play S.E. and St Croix has Valley,some interesting scenarios there.
If Wings beats St. Croix, they're in on the wild card with goal differential.
Number 200, Yeah
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