The MN girls draw is probably not as good as the boys. But generally I think the quality of the MN girls teams is higher than the boys (in comparison to the competition at Regionals.) That said, the girls with a chance to get out of their group are the 14s and 18s. All other teams should at least be competative.
Link with most Regional information is: http://www.region2.com/2008Cup/teaminfo.html
542 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 542 Newer› Newest»oh the courage it takes be an anonymous U12 or U13 bng blue blog poster.
quick question to all the U13 parents......are your daughters as bitter as you? I doubt it, chances are they are enjoying their summer days (daze).
quick question to all the U12 parents......are your daughters still relishing in their trip to Rockford? I doubt it as that was 4 days ago and in the mind of a 12 year old that's old news.
Both sides - move on as your daughters probably already have (and funny - aren't they the ones this is all about?), enjoy the summer, watch the ladies golfers this weekend, and take a long, deep breath.
829-
Very plucky of you. Unfortunately, it appears that it makes no difference, as those who went didn't win, either. Good try, though.
900 - looks as if your anonoymous too. funny how it is ok for you, but not the bangu folks.
9:00 - amen.
isn't this thread about regionals?
I am really tired of the U-12, U-13 debates. lets move on... most of us could really care less...
10:10 - amen.
I would argue a bit about the "strong favorites" prediction above.
I would venture a guess that SSM would have to considered a formidable opponent at U18 (same U18 team as this year minus only a couple players), and the U16 SSM team may do some damage if they play?
I believe the SSM U16's will be playing as I've heard they've been accepted into MRL. With that team a lot depends on which players are playing at U16 or up on the U18 team.
SSM will be strong at U18. Many of their U18 players were U17's this year and they also have the ability to pull up younger players if needed as they have no U17 team, at least at this point. Bangu will also be losing 3-4 players to college. It should be interesting as the current Bangu 18's and 17's are comparable in ability and the SSM-Bangu game this year was close. One would expect the same for next year. I would give edge to SSM as they are better equipped to find new players to fill their grad losses than Bangu is. This is assuming SSM does not have any players leave to go home for their senior year.
The problem with SSM's 18's this year was that they could not make substitutions. If I am correct, I only saw them make one change in their game against Bangu. So, if they are losing 4 or 5 players, they better be picking up 4 or 5 because I don't think that they currently have the depth. Also, fitness seemed to be an issue for that team, probably because of the subs. They do have some fantastic players though.
As far as comparing the Bangu 17's and 18's, I believe the 18's are much more dangerous and have much more talent. Their coach allows a little more freedom in their play than the 17's. However, the 17's are very disciplined and play a great possession and defensive game. My prediction (which is way too early to even matter) is that Bangu's chances go down with every goal scored. THerefore, 1 goal or less, Bangu wins. After that, I give the edge to SSM.
If you don't care about a topic - don't read it. Seems everyone has their own issue to debate/discuss and not everyone finds all issues interesting.
10:59 - this isn't TV where you get to choose the channel. There is only one station.
Go ahead and continue talking about the U12's & U13's. Eventually both sides will get it out of their systems.
10:59 Right on!! Region, Schmegion -- I need more cowbell!
1056 I am confused. If Bangu 18's have much more talent and are much more dangerous than the Bangu 17's then why have they not been more successful? Is that a poke at their coach? Seem like some Bangu 15 parents were taking shots at this same coach earlier.
It is possible that 1056 is actually an over the edge Bangu U18
parent. It is also possible that the comments directed at the U15 Bangu coach came from actual U15 parents. I suppose it is also possible that all the bickering between U12 and U13 are also misguided parents. Have to wonder though, some of these comments are so off base it seems that someone may enjoy stirring things up among the Bangu teams.
I would also make SSM the early favorite at U18 which will easily have the strongest field at state cup next year. All the reasons 1046 gave are valid. I would add that SSM was the best team at U18 this year. Anyone who saw the cup final would agree. And this with several players playing up. It will be very interesting next year and may well come down to which team is better able to fill their grad losses. There also are sleeper teams like Woodbury around. I would add Wings but it occurs to me that they will now be Thingu. Maybe they will be able to give the current Bangu team the depth it will need. Seems early to talk about state cup for next year, how about that upcoming HS season!! LOL
Family finances could also be a factor next year.
I would have to agree with 800.
I don't like Bangu anymore than the next person, but their technical/tactical play was among the best i have ever seen.
My daughter is on the 14P Eden Prairie team. The first time we played Bangu 14P we beat them 5-0. Despite the score, the Bangu girls played their hearts out, and actually controlled the game for a while. Their parents were very nice about it, congratulating us on the win, and complimenting us on our daughters. Later that night, I asked my daughter if the Bangu girls were "sassy" on the field. Her response was that they were one of the best-spirited she had ever played. She found it weird that they apologized whenever they fouled someone. Thats pretty good for girls who just lost 5-0.
We played the Bangu 14P girls again only a few weeks later, to come out of the game with a 1-1 tie. That was easily one of the hardest games we played all season.
It was truly amazing. I had never seen a team improve that much in a matter of weeks.
As impossible as it seems, I have actually come to respect Bangu. (Well at least this Bangu team)
Just to start things off, I AM a Bangu 14P parent.
To all other Bangu 14P parents who have been posting on here,
Yeah, the loss at State Cup was devastating. We all know and experienced that, but don't you think it is time to move on with your lives? There are more important things in life than that, and I think its time you recognize that. I didn't expect any parent on our team to be caught up in all of this nonsense. Knowing all of you, this just doesn't seem real. We all know Bangu has a bad reputation, but those bad traits have never been a presence on our team. Please, stop contributing to that reputation.
The 12s are a good team. They beat us fair and square, and there is no way to change it now. There is always next year, so lets just move on and start focusing on that instead of lingering in the past.
I know all of our daughters have.
Just a word of advice to all of you who can't seem to move on.
116 or U13 Bangu Parent, Can you get me a bag so I can toss my cookies. Don't you have better things to do than pretend you are someone you are not. Why would you ask your daughter if they were sassy???? And then your 13/14 year old daughter replied they were one of the best-spirited teams she had ever played. Yeah right. If that is the best technical and Tactical team you've seen you need to get out and watch real soccer. You are probably the same parent who before state cup was just gushing about certain players on the U13 team and how special they were. Same person then glowed about a couple of new kids at Burnsville who they described pretending not to personnally know them. When in fact the two new players were new players who had played at Bangu. Way to fishy for me. If for some strange reason I am wrong please tell us who you are so I can apologize in person some day.
1:44 - hey look, there's a bangu parent on the "grassy knoll". me thinks you read too much into things.
Latest NSR Rankings
U14 N 20 R 5
U15 N 20 R 6
U16 N 28 R 8
U17 N 22 R 5
U18 N 10 R 3
Big jump for 15s and 18s. ES must be doing something right!
One more example of why nobody should take those rankings seriously.
735-Why, because one of your clubs team isn't ranked!!!!!!
That's fantastic to see that 5 MN girls teams have been recognized in the top 10 in region 2.
I'd also add in the U11s at 9th in the Nation and 3rd in region 2. Rankings change all the time at the younger age groups but MA has obviously already begun to develop assembled talent here.
Anyone think Inferno would benefit from joining MTA? I don't see a reason for it but curious if their coach, who I believe works with the Lightning as well, would be behind it. They likely have all the top talent already.
not all the rankings have been updated to reflect regional results,
I highly raise an eyebrow at any Bangu U11 team being ranked in the top 10 in the Region. I can tell you that my daughter's U11 Iowa team took them pretty easily. I challenge you to find where the Ankeny Maroon U11 girls are ranked in Region 2. Rankings for U11 teams are highly inaccurate and mean nothing.
SSMSouthCampus
SSMSouthCampus, Before you spout off thinking you beat a team easily I suggest you know who you played. Your team played our 2nd team (whites). Also the score was I believe 2-1 or something like that. Your team wasn't even playing in the top flight with the better teams at the NSC tournament. If you only beat them 2-1 you would be in rude for a awakening. The girls have earned their ranking.
Just for Girls(Fall)- Top flight Champions
West Des Moines Premier Games(Spring) - Top flight Champions
Best Of the Midwest (Fall) - Top Flight Champions
NSR Spring- Top Flight Champions
NSR Fall - Top Flight Champions
NSC - Fall and Spring - Top Flight Champions
In their out of state tournaments they outscore their opponents for the weekend usually 15 - 1 with restrictions after the half time. The reason your team isn't ranked in Region 2 is what have they done to be ranked in the region???? Rankings are only as good as the data you have on teams being ranked. Rankings at any age are subjective and the more info you have the better. I hope the girls get a chance to play in the near future. It would be fun!!
You guys think you are so tough. Our U-2 team is the best in the Midwest and should be top 5 in the Nation. We have 4 Region 2 ODP (Olympic Diaper Program) warm pool players and 2 National team players that have completed their first 3 night caps. Our Team is still looking for a name but we have narrowed down the choices to Yellowgu or Browngu.
758
Do you think that if Inferno joined MTA that would improve their fortunes at regions?!
Something tells me it will take more than a change of jersey to affect their fortunes.
934, is your U-2 coach Bono? ;-)
Rankings? U11? Please, stop it.
When it matters is at U18. Till then, just keep training hard and stay away from Mom & Dad, cuz they are your worst enemy.
At U11, they arent even soccer players, they are learning. Maybe, just maybe they can do a overlap huh??
Doesn't matter at U18 as much as 16-17, those are the years to be noticed if college is a goal. By U18 many teams have started to taper down their activities. I do agree that the only thing more ridiculous than rankings before U13 is parents who quote them. As we have seen the rankngs are an inexact science at best at any age.
well, whether you like it or not-they do have rankings at u11. there are competitive u11 teams in this country and this state! why wait till u18 to be noticed in the soccer world?
well, whether you like it or not-they do have rankings at u11. there are competitive u11 teams in this country and this state! why wait till u18 to be noticed in the soccer world?
5:49 - i agree there is no reason to wait until u18, but trust me, no one with any good intentions is looking at any player younger than u13-u14 (other than to enroll you in a camp or sell you something).
They have rankings at U11 because parents of youngers are more excitable about how good their DD's are and are more likely to frequent the ranking site and drive up the hits and enable the site operator to charge more for advertising and fill the tournaments they sponsor.
I stand corrected. We did not beat the Blue team, it was the white team. The blue team was able to conquer the Iowa teams placed in front of them at NSC Cup. Somehow the team placement wasn't quite right, and the U11 Iowa team with the best record was put in the "B" flight. BTW, both Ankeny U11 teams are half full of actual U8-U9 players. The Maroon team only had four true U-11s...
The point really is that at U11 rankings are absolutely silly. I am very sorry that I even got involved in the discussion on U11 teams. In Iowa they don't even make "A" and "B" teams-- the teams are put together to make them "even".
The rankings are pointless at this age....enjoy it now and see where they sit in 4-5 years within the Region.
SSMSouthCampus
SSMSC, I sent you a PM on BS.
Why the U11 rankings are so silly, lets use Iowa as a example, U11 there are alot of teams and players, but by the time these girls reach U17/18, then they are down to 2 teams in the whole state. 2 teams!! So why waste time and energy bragging and discussing rankings when in fact, 1/3 of these U11 players will not be playing select soccer. Cars, Jobs, Highschool Sports, Area Friends etc etc..
On NSR a few yrs ago there was a U12 girls team ranked number 1, the team was called the BlueBirds from AR. That team today is no where to be heard from.
And here is another silly thing, ranking 3v3 teams. OMG!!
You think U11 rankings are silly and they are if they are used by parents and coaches to set their kids on a pedestal. As a coach, I use them to find tournaments with other teams recognized as strong at the younger ages. For me, they aren't so silly but a useful tool in player development.
Oops, I should have said "U11 rankings are still if they are used by parents and coaches to set their kids OR THEMSELVES on a pedestal."
Anon 8:44's reply is very telling.
It sounds like he / she likes rankings because it makes his / her job easier.
I'd like to see more coaches scouting players instead of scouting teams.
Then again, that might take up some free time.
All coaches like rankings, both team and individual...in every sport.
Who do pro basketball and football coaches scout?
D3 collegiate programs or D1 programs?
Nobody has the time or budget to scout all the C2 & C3 teams in youth soccer.
You think U11 rankings are silly and they are if they are used by parents and coaches to set their kids on a pedestal. As a coach, I use them to find tournaments with other teams recognized as strong at the younger ages. For me, they aren't so silly but a useful tool in player development.
You mean to tell me that if Cali or PA had the top 5 ranked teams in the US, that you would board a team of U11/13 yr olds on a plane and fly at this age?? WoW!?
9:45, you are comparing D2 & D3 college programs to Youth soccer players at U11/13?? You people amaze me. Look out Texas, here comes this #1 ranked U11 peewee soccer team from Sota. They are going to keep you scoreless.
Red River U13 girls are ranked #1 in North Dakota and were at the Burnsville Fire Cup this weekend. They didn't win a game. They were 0-1-3 in four games in a five pool bracket and came in dead last. A combined U12/U13 Cottage Grove team beat them.
Minnesota coaches are mediocre at best. Boot ball is the name of the game here. Same ol same ol....
Nobody is comparing U11 soccer teams to collegiate programs.
Just illustrating that coaches don't scout low level poor team because they don't have time or the money.
It doesn't matter what sport or what level. The top programs get scouted more than weak programs.
Deal with it.
Oh Im dealing with it, but scouting U11 players?? Please!!
Simply amazing.
Here is another one that I just heard the other day....Lets just say, there is a so called player from any state other than MN that wants to come train and play with the MTA, will the MTA enroll this kid in Holy Angles or something like that and make it a REAL academy?? Kinda like what the Rush is trying to get going in Denver and what SSM is doing now?? Would you parents allow this to happen?? I say, why not!!
3:09..Im all for that as well, Chicago Fire is doing it. Look at the kid from CRSA in Iowa that moved to CTown to train full time with the Fire. Oh, its a coming..Maybe not next yr, but its on its way.
(You can read about this on TopDrawerSoccer.com)
I used to recruit in rec league (2nd and 3rd Grade)
3:17-- You should have stuck with the approach. Maybe then you'd have something to brag about today?
I'd be interested in what a David Beckham / Mia Hamm embryo would fetch on E-Bay. It'd be a darn good-looking kid too. I'll handle his/her endorsements.
11:30 The key to any ratings service is sampling. The Bville U-12 C1 team is ranked 3 in MN.
They finished 1 win 3 losses (4th place out of 5 teams) in the Burnsville tournament and got beat by Bangu's u-11 team . Now the Bville team is #1 in the weak south district.
Does Bville have a decent U-12 team ? I think so, but they are only winning the league because Bangu's 12's are playing 13.
Point is: the rating system is flawed due to very limited sampling. Only tournament play is considered and many younger teams just don't play in the big tournaments.
how pays attention to MN U12 ratings in the first place?
or maybe who pays attention....
you're all too funny.
The only game that matters is the one you're playing currently.
The future is made up of "nows"
polls/rankings in youth sports are for ego gratification only.
Rankings are very subjective, and questionable. First off, I wouldn't put too much stock in the Gotsoccer.com rankings. Secondly, I am a State Expert for Iowa on NationalSoccerRanking.com and I have attempted to get some teams listed in the Region 2 rankings. However, I can't get the Regional Expert to listen to me-- even with scores against "ranked" Regional teams.
Anyone noticed that in the NationalSoccerRanking.com rankings at U11 there are only two teams ranked? Bangu Blue and Bangu White. Also, anyone noticed that SSM is not listed anywhere in U16G even though they have beaten atleast 3 of the teams listed? Just observations.....
SSMSouthCampus
Maybe SSM would get listed if they used the name of their MYSA affiliate, Faribault Soccer Association. After all, SSM isn't a club recongized by USYS....SSM is a boarding school.
No other boarding schools are ranked by nationalsoccerranking.com.
I belive IMG is at U18 (#13N).
SSMSC did your wins occur at recognized tournaments in playoff rounds? That is the primary way NSC will adjust rankings. I don't know I am asking! If you defeat a team in a friendly outside of a tournament setting the result is not likely to be looked at. Even pool play results are sometimes not looked at as the games may be meaningless if one of the teams has been eliminated or clinched advancement before the game is played.
I don't see a U18 IMG team listed at U18 in nationalsoccerrankings.com
Am I missing something?
http://www.nationalsoccerranking.com/girls_u18.htm
#13
At one time, IMG was ranked #1 till they were upset at Region III tournament last week in the semis..
NSR will not take into account ANY friendlies.
With the current economy club soccer is getting too expensive for a lot of folks. I'd expect you will see kids switching back to the cc's.
10:09-- I think that is wishful thinking on your part. I guess everyone is in a panic to sell off thier fishing boats and campers too, right?
Based on the traffic I saw last weekend coming back into the Cities on I-94 people are still going to their cabins and hauling their speed boats, fishing boats, jet skis etc.
The traffic is as heavy as it's ever been.
They may eat out less often or play a little less golf to save a few bucks here and there but 95% of people are still working and though they're spending more on gasoline people don't give up all their entertainment and they don't skimp on their kids.
If I had to venture a guess soccer tryouts this August will set records for numbers of players trying out for teams. Been that way for years.
You'll just see tons of players seeking scholarships. Don't sell that boat, just ask the other 17 to pay your way. Thwingu will need to deal with lots of that. I know BNG already does.
EVERY club scholarships players.
Where do you think the funds come from? The scholarship fairy?
The interesting thing I hear from the new BNG/MTA/WNG collaberation is that the master plan is to reduce the cost of the teams from U15-U17 who travel to college search events etc through sponsorships and contributions from the Thunder professional program.
We'll have to see if this happens but from all indications the new ownership group has solid financial standing and great business acumen.
They didn't become multi-millionaire real estate developers by being fools or being lazy.
I think this will be the impetus to move soccer ahead faster than ever before here in the great state of Minnesoooohtaaaah!
Glen Taylor is a multi-billionaire businessman.
5:15
and?
If the new Thunder group has great business acumen, they may end up bailing before it ever comes to scholarshipping all the 15-17s....
Does this make any sense? U18 club teams participating in more national tournaments than previously. Why incur all the extra costs when most of the players have already made up their minds regarding scholarships.Who's going to benefit from these extra events? Appreciate input.
Thanks
anon 6:24
Which U18 club team is doing that?
For those of you who have seen both Bangu 14P and Wings 13C1 play...
Just out of curiosity, who is better?
Glen Taylor is a brilliantly rich businessman who is a horribly bad sports person. Hopefully these new owners' deep pockets won't be emptied supporting this pile of crap.
Bangu U13's that played premier.
Kevin has so much anger. Must still be sore about KG.
Please enlighten us as to what is a pile of crap? MTA or the Thunder in general?
Bangu's 14 p is better, no doubt. Sad thing for that age group as the 14 p team will be relegated from Premier . Why are the 13's so weak ??? I mean the overall age group.
I think the 13s are so weak because all the good players in town were enticed to play for a super team that isn't so super, and the remaining players just couldn't develop by remaining in their CCs with subpar coaching.
8:33
That "pile of crap" won more State Cup Championships this spring than any of the other clubs in the state has won in the last 5 years.
So what does that make your club?
833,
Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer from that hater.
He has a very bad taste in his mouth right now.
He just stuck his fat foot in his mouth after stepping into that "pile".
re: Bangu u13 (plays u14) versus Wings u13c1. are they playing upcoming is that the nature of the question? i have seen the bangu team play a few times since state cup and the only u13 team that gave them any trouble was burnsville at NSC (bangu won on pk). regardless, enjoy them why you can because that team will scatter after this season.
After a little reserach.
Bangu U13 (14P) played the Wings in the semi finals at state cup. Bangu won 1-0.
Common opponenets at the West Des Moines Premier Games:
Bangu 3 Cedar River 0
Cedar River 2 Wings 1
Bangu 2 Chicago Magic 1
Chicago Magic 6 Wings 1
Ouch..That was a bomb. Good one!!
Why does it matter, the two teams are going to be in one club, the best kids will be on the top team and the next group will be the white team. You will end up with two very solid teams. And no, the group is not going to scatter like 9:22 says, you hope they do but in the end MTA will have a very strong U14 team next year.
will the 13 (14 premier) team play u14 c1 next season?
MWRL for both of the new MTA teams at U14 next year.
Oh, this is a great question..Last year when SSM was allowed to play MRL, people complained about they couldnt play because they never played State Cup or MRL before, but now, all these MTA teams havent played State Cup or MRL, but yet your being allowed to play MRL. New names bring zero win loss records. mmmmmmmm? So, does this mean all the Bangu teams that won State Cup wont have any #1 seeding then?? Should since the club/team are going to be new.
3:13 - actually not sure if it's a a great question. Oh wait, since this years U14 team will now be next year's U15 team and some of the players might have changed.....come to think of it, you are right, they are not the same teams and everyone needs to start over again. grasping at straws......
i also believe the "new" club/team question has already been clarified.
Desperate strokes from jealous and desperate folks.
No, 313 is just an SSM parent who is still miffed, perhaps justifiably, with the reaction to SSM playing state cup. Usually identifies himself though but not this time?
#Xmom
3:46, good guess, but that wasnt me...and I dont think your 10s mom!! Please try again.
#10s Dad
ps. Did I miss something, who is miffed??
nothing has been clarified regarding teams until MYSA says it's been clarified (heavy, syrupy sarcasm) .......don't ignore the little minds behind the curtain.
I've heard the Bangu and Wings corporate entities aren't changing.
Supposedly only the make up of the boards along with a name change to the Thunder.
These won't be "new" teams or "new clubs" if that is accurate so don't get too excited about trying to ruin things for the kids on those teams.
Wasn't me that posted the comment about SSM either. I understand the concept behind the merger, and welcome the possible consolidation. I am on the side that is welcoming the concept.
You won't find any negative things from me regarding this endeavor.
SSMSouthCampus
me too!! I think its great for the game in MN.
10s Dad
1048, here's why it matters.
If the new MTA team combines the best from two state cup semi finalists, they will have a pretty strong team. Then people can stop asking what's wrong with this age group.
842, Even if you combine the two semi finalists to make one team they will still have the same problem they have always had. That problem is putting the ball in the net against other high caliber teams. Yes they can score against weak minnesota teams, but not against the regions better teams. This age group lacks a goal scorer who is creative off the dribble and can beat players 1 vs 1 and can put it in the net. Until they find that type of player nothing much will change. Those type of players don't come around that often. Unfortunately I didn't see any of those types of players at state cup.
Minnesota coaches wouldn't know what to do with a play maker.
They'd put her at sweeper because none of the coaches I've seen are willing to be shown up by a player.
1046, are you saying they have one of those players and she plays sweeper??
I do agree with 1046 but not for the reason stated. I have no doubt that this may elicit some negative responses but as a current Bangu parent I have seen with my own eyes the importance put on development at the expense creativity. This seems to manifest itself on some Bangu teams by putting the potentially (offensively) creative players in a more defensive role to further develop them as more complete players, rather than simply let them score goals or just develop them as offensive weapons. I do understand that player development is the goal here but IMO Bangu struggles with a balanced approach. The best youth coaches are able to balance development and nurture creativity in their players at the same time. MN does have players that could compete with IL. and MI. teams if we do a better job of teaching the kids in a more balanced way. Yes I am commenting on my little Mia, but I have seen the same thing on other Bangu teams as well. I would love to hear some comments regarding development vs creativity and how to strike a balance.
Nurturing a creative player benefits the player and possibly the team.
"Developing" teams of players benefits Bangu's reputation, overall record, and coaches egos.
6 40pm hits nail on head.
Bangu teams I have watched are actually boring,creativity doesnt really exist,its more of a machine like style.
640 and 646, I get what your saying but Bangu has some teams that do not have winning records and they still play like machines even though there are some players that show potential as creative players. Why not develop the natural abilities of those that show promise, which intern would help the team, the team record, the Clubs rep and the coaches ego? The truth may be that, like the cc's, training the masses all equally and not the individual may be too difficult for a club like Bangu (MTA). Team development may be easier to train than an environment that identifies and nurtures individuals and teams both. Maybe that is the next level of training we should embrace if MN is ever going to produce teams that can consistently perform well at regionals.
1046 & 1144 - come on, who plays with a sweeper now days at the higher levels???
It is too easy to attack against.
These guys who continually lose to Bangu teams continue to whine about them...LOSERS!
why are you guys so mean??
557, Which team does your daughter play on?
Minnesota doesn't have any coaches capable of developing creative players.I've talked to college coaches at all levels and most of them will tell you that is the biggest weakness in Minnesota soccer.They do find creative players in Florida,Texas,Ohio,Illinois....
Minnesota will never be taken seriously until they change coaching philosophy. The problem is you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
A lot of critical comments about coaching. But one coach who's escaped criticism despite under achieving the last couple years is WH. He has a huge advantage in numbers yet his record indicates nothing much accomplished.
I think overall it may be that Bangu simply doesnt have the Coaching talent{in general,not everyone is the same}to promote the creative style.Most of the Bangu teams seem to be about posession,posession and more posession.
I think a lot of the sucess they have had is a case of best players/athletes on a team,most time/money invested in training,I dont believe their was anything special about their coaching staff.
EP is too large and is run by a parent board, ie: multiple agendas, favoritism,___________, etc.
WH will tell you himself that when tryouts have ended and the kids are assigned their teams he receives hundreds of emails from whining parents that are not happy with the team their kid was assigned. Given that environment how could any DOC develop kids properly.
Just my opinion
1252, Bangu does have a few truly complete coaches but overall I agree with you, too much possession. I too have had conversations with many college coaches and have heard the same observations, it sounds like for the foreseeable future if you want your little mia to be creative, open your checkbook and hire a personal coach. So the next level for MN is to consolidate the best coaches in the state? That sounds like an impossible task.
here you parents go again - wave the magic wand and a coach creates creative players.
Creativity comes when one plays in an unstructured environment - play ground basketball, pond hockey, and street soccer (or park) Play time when you can try new things and fail without worrying about criticism
Look at the states you name - they can play year around outside if they want. Tell the players here to start watching more high level soccer to gain ideas too.
Best thing my players did and they enjoyed the most,that created loads of creativity was 3v3 futsal in a small gym and all they did was play.
All I did was babysit.
You can not coach creativity, you can help inspire a player to think outside the norm on the ball and more so when they are off the ball. You can create training sessions that encourage quick thinking and multiple choices. You can make sure players take chances without condemnation.
You can make sure you do not inhibit creativity, but there is no magic wand for instilling the soccer creativity gene.
How many of you parents notice an off the ball run that has no purpose but to deceive the defense and open space for teammates?
To me when the player begins realizing they can impact the game off the ball to help their teammates is a sign of great creativity.
Don't blame the coaches exclusively - the players have to do things on their own.
in regard to WH - I have seen very few clubs as well organized, structured, with as great of training curriculum as EP.
All the tools for coaches and players are in place for them to use and take advantage of. It is still the responsibility of the coaches and players to use these tools.
DOCs do not play the game for the players, they do not coach the game for the coaches, they are not slaves to the parents; but when they are servant to the players good things do happen as I believe the case exists in EP.
Tomass, I don't think that the intent of the previous posts were to imply that the coaches should be responsible for the creativity in the kids, rather to create an environment that does not stifle creativity. The original question was how to strike a balance between development and creativity. Too much of either may not create a well rounded player.
anon 201 - I appreciate you trying to keep a balanced perspective, but I did not gain the same interpretation from anon 12:15's post, thus my rant and rave.
I think the intent of some of the previous posts is "my kid would be a great and creative player if the coaches would only use him/her correctly!"
Tomass..how difficult is it to coach a team the "give and go"? If you watched the Euro cup it's a standard play.When you watch club soccer here you seldom see it.You seldom see it with the Lightning.It's elementary soccer as Julie Foudy says.Why don't our coaches emphasize it? Enough of the "back passing".
It's time to change our coaching philosophy.
so the give and go (wall pass) is creative eh? Then it is easier to change than I thought.
This type of passing as you said is and should be standard. I see it a fair amount. I attribute it to good decisions made by players that recognize lazy defending habits of the opponents.
but if all the teams are playing boot ball as described earlier it is pretty hard to play that pass when it is 1 v 5 or 2 v 7. Some of it also can be blamed on lazy attacking, "i've made my pass I do not need to move any further"
anon 605 - responsibilities change based upon the position and the system being implemented but the ability to be creative does not. Options of creativity differ but not the thought process for it.
The premise is the kid's proper position is more important than what is best for the team? Of course, understand that the parent's priorities are vastly different than how the coach views the team's priority. Thus, the conflict and why coaches are easy to blame rather than the offspring.
Tomass...I agree with you...We don't have any creative athletes .Minnesota is doomed to mediocre soccer at least for our lifetime.
anon 137 great sarcasm but poor interpretation.
I think Tomass point is that if a player is a true creative talent they will show that as well or better from the midfield as up top. Quit blaming coaches for a players lack of production and have them look in the mirror and ask what they can do to make themselves and their TEAM better. I saw many games at regionals and state cup and did not see any truly creative players at any of the U15-18 groups. Good players yes. Athletic players yes. Great soccer players no.
7:34
Bangu dominates State Cup
Bangu gets and improves all the best players
You saw few or no creative players there
We are all supposed to get on board with the MTA train? Everyone should be running the other way
8:14,
Where should they run to?
To teams and clubs that have fewer good players and fewer knowledgeable coaches?
Take a look at the number of players from the top Bangu teams the past few years now playing in college and receiving scholarships. That sums it up pretty well for me.
When someone provides a better alternative to Thwingu the players will flock to the tryouts just as they flock to Thwingu tryouts now.
I think both sides are right and wrong. There are creative players out there (I can think of at least one at each of the age groups), but oftentimes the possession system being played does not highlight that. Keep in mind that Michael Jordan was not a highlight reel when he played under Dean Smith at UNC, but had a light more freedom to create in the pro game.
anon 826,
You hit the nail on the head.
If these bashers spent as much time trying to improve their own clubs as spent bashing Bangu/MTA/Wings their clubs would be much better off.
As Ralph Waldo Emerson once said,
"Build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door."
There is a good opportunity for for a creative coach to set up a program for the truly creative players.This is the perfect time of the year to do it. Three or four weeks to help develop the skills that the clubs and cc's don't have time to do. Probably 15 kids max. It would be great for these kids to get together and see what it's like to play with other skilled players as opposed to boot ball.Alittle 3 on 3 etc...
Tomass...you are one of the few on this blog who's dedicated enough to make this happen and not let ego get in the way.
It sounds like MTA is doing something like that right now with the U16 boys age group exposing them to the pros from the English club. A neat opportunity for those invited.
Any way to get an invite for my kid from a CC? He'd love to attend.
Sat. July 5 Minnesota (3) vs. Illinois (0)
Pool:
A: Victoria Fuglister (GK), Amber Paul, Foladshade Pratt,
Rebecca Roberts, Olivia Schultz, Kathleen Thyken, Taylor Uhl
B: Lauren Reid, Rachael Van Kuelen, Hannah Werth, Taylor Woodnick
Sun. July 6 Minnesota (1) vs. Michigan (0)
Pool:
A: Victoria Fuglister (GK), Amber Paul, Foladshade Pratt, Rebecca Roberts, Olivia Schultz, Kathleen Thyken, Taylor Uhl, Hannah Werth
B: Lauren Reid, Rachael Van Kuelen, Kaelyn Korte
Mon. July 7
Tue. July 8
Wed. July 9 Championship and pool games
Based on the numbers here, it looks like MN is doing a pretty good job of developing players. Maybe things aren't as bad as most of you know it alls think.
On a slightly different note, are there any good teams/matchups for USA Cup weekend that involve MN teams and top out of state clubs? Or are those going to come out when the schedule for the week is posted?
As Shekki Weewax once said,
"Build a mousetrap and you'll catch dumb mice."
Shekki
Hey weed wacker, Get a life. Didn't your parents teach you to play nice in the sandbox.
Poor lil WeeWee wouldn't know where to start to improve his club.
He's a wannabe who never played the game yet acts as if he know's more than players and coaches who have.
I am having a good laugh about this "creativity" being discussed. I seems this group is trying to define the undefinable. Lets hear some of you out there attept to define this concept.
I think it is more a response to a poster who felt his daughter was being stifled by being used incorrectly by her coach. Probably same person as 1213 as it reflects the same age group. He felt she could be a dominant, creative player if her coach would use her up top rather than being mired in the midfield. Others feel a great player should be able to make her mark on the game however the coach uses her. Two sides, both with some validity to their argument.
me thinks folks want this player who can dribble through 5 players with a variety of shakes & bakes, stutters & stops, deke out the goalie and score. having seen a lot of the most recent world cup, there was not one US player who could do this and maybe only one in world (Marta from Brazil) who comes remotely close. the girls have never played like ronaldinho or ronaldo (either one). maybe it's physiology or coaching, but i agree with 1:09. please define creativity?
i agree that bangu does tend to play more of a possession game which translates into being less explosive (ie - direct) but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. is a strong offensive build with sharp ball movement creative? is a more direct over the top ball creative? both styles dictate a different skill set but hopefully with the same result.
one way to continue the betterment of the current player development system is for local area clubs to decide to scrap the current MYSA fall league and create their own league structure around small sided games at all levels.
Devote 45 minutes to field awareness training and an hour to small side games 3v3 or 4 v 4
It would only take 3 -4 clubs in an area to pull this off
I certainly hope it isn't the father posting. It would be a shame to put his daughter in that sort of spot. She (her team, her coach, ...everyone) becomes disected by people who can hide behind a keyboard and I have yet to anything constructive ever result from it. Parents - please don't put your kids in this position. It isn't fair to them.
I was taught to play nice in the sandbox, but all of my friends took their toys and left for the Thwingu sandbox. Now THAT'S not playing nice.
Shekki
P.S. I played for a state high school champ in the mid-80s, and on numerous state select teams before that (we weren't as organized back then). I know, that's nothing compared to the many amazing accomplishments of the strategic minds leading Thwingu, but at least I played the game, versus most nut-job parents who buy hook, link and sinker the mistaken notion that there's only one place that can develop strong players.
P.P.S. The last name is Weewax, not Weedwacker. Show some respect.
Shekki, maybe your friends got tired of calling the litter box a sandbox and wanted to play in nice sand.
Shekki,
So if you actually have a clue about soccer maybe you should quit whining about other clubs and expend that energy improving yours.
After all winning ZERO State Cup titles isn't going to draw kids to your club.
Get out there and build that better mousetrap.
Build it and they will come.
See Shekki you just don't get it yet. Repeat thousands of times daily "all hail to MTA BTE" soon you'll be selling powder blue flowers at the airport and be part of the "success machine" You will be dazzling the neighbors with hours of stories of you child's elite team they'll have no clue, as not all of us live to worship there, but your glazed eyes with the faraway look will tell all. If you really play the game and pucker up enough, you may get to say "my kid plays up" Best of luck to you.
shekki, are you still friends with people that left you in the box by yourself or do you trash them just as much as you trash Bangu. Maybe it wasn't the club that they had a problem with. It sounds like you are the only one left, maybe a hard look within and some therapy will help!
shekki- No one said there was only one place to develop strong players, but there is only one place where a majority of the talent goes. If your club was a premier club and had the best teams for almost every age group we would be with your club, but then your dilema would be that you would have to find a new club for your kids since they would probably be cut at tryout time, then you would be bad mouthing your old club.
hey guys, someone posted their daughter's name and accomplishments at ODP camp and not one of you had the courtesy to tell them how awesome they are. Take the bait, fellers...
anon 506 - LOL must be the cold front that is keeping the bites low
I must say I'm impressed with the MTA marketing machine, already working the sidelines of other club's games handing out the propaganda to recruit the best and brightest to their tryouts. See, when you market like that, why worry about developing players? Again I ask...how many of your U15 premier players played with you at U9? How many did YOU develop?
Shekki
P.S. I'm having fun at YOUR expense here. Amazing what a little getting under your skin does to uncover psychotic parents...cripes.
Shekki-
Your complaints regarding "development" are common in all parts of the US. You suffer from the same disease which is rampant across the country. It is called "Club envy".......
I have heard/read the same arguments non-development (stealing products of local clubs to build teams) about the Chicago Magic, Eclipse, Dallas Texans, and others. The only thing I can say for the Bangu types is this: That is a pretty nice group to be compared to.
On the other hand, I have heard the types of complaints from Clubs like the Marshalltown Soccer Club, the Chicago Lakefront Attack Soccer Club, Crawford County Soccer Club, Fort Worth FC, and Hurst United Soccer Club. Ever heard of any of these? Didn't think so. My guess is that People at the Dallas Texans, Eclipse, and the Chicago Magic's of the World have never heard of 95% of the Community Clubs in Minnesota either- there is a reason for this.
There are different levels of soccer around the USA. This is necessary to fit the needs of the kids at all levels. Given a choice, I would like to be able to push my kid to play at the highest level she can compete. In general, Community Clubs can not offer the things that clubs like Bangu, the Dallas Texans, PDA, SoCal Surf, Chicago Magic, Eclipse can. Is Bangu on the same level as the other listed? To some degree.
Bottom line is that offering multiple "levels" to accomodate players is not a bad thing. Consolidation of talent is a great thing. I don't care what color the team wears, what the name of the club is, or what zip code they play in-- it is needed and will only make better opportunities for the best players MN has to offer.
SSMSouthCampus
shekki may be on something or onto something.
I have no problem of players being recruited if they have an opportunity to play up a level or improve their level of training. What is unnerving is many times the parents are recruited to get the players. The ego gratification of the parent is the deciding factor rather than answering the question, "is the training and playing opportunity better for my player elsewhere"
I don't know if enough parents ask that question after drinking the kool-aid.
Right on SSMSC
#10's Dad
People up north have no idea how good they are going to have it.
From youth to Lightning and Thunder all under one roof.
1993 MN girls win ODP tournament.
Maybe we are developing players??????
10 93 girls held over for the region pool. That has to be a record.
Where are they listed?
Nothing on the MYSA or Region II Web sites.
I'm sure the next post will tell us how many MTA/Bangu/Wings players are amonth the Minnesota 10.
I am sure there is a dad or two just itching to get his DD name on such a widely read journalistic venture such as this. Be patient. Probably the same one who posted many of the comments above.
I'm waiting for the billboard.
Congratulations to the MYSA's ODP folks for developing this strong group of girls. Outstanding job, and more proof that ODP works.
307 a different tack has been taken with a post on the TBW thread.
LOL I assume 308 has tongue firmly in cheek
OMG I hope 308 is kidding. I don't think the 5 holdovers from MAs team benefited much from the half dozen ODP sessions they went through this year. But maybe they did as according to many of you on here coaches like MA don't develop players at all and I'm sure he didn't do much for these girls over the last few years.
maybe 308 is hedging her bets and is playing the political game so if it is was not tongue firmly in cheek it was then nose place firmly up someone's arse.
My tongue was firmly in cheek. The best tongue in cheek statements are the ones where people aren't so sure your tongue is in your cheek.
3:25, I see what you're referring to...the Bangoons are "creating" new movers into the area who are wondering where the best club is. Check the MTA thread. Very creative...amazing how someone who just moved here and knows nothing about our soccer can find this blog. Wow.
Anon 6:53 a moron like you found it so it can't be that hard.
6:53,
Can you google? Or is that beyond your capabilities?
If you can figure it out try the following searches:
St Louis soccer blog
Kansas City soccer blog
Milwaukee soccer blog
Portland soccer blog
You might be surprised what's out there.
I would search the internet if I moved and was looking for a club.
Odp is having much more success at the regional and national level than our top club teams.
anon 7:25,
What is the makeup of that girls ODP team?
Bangu kids? Woodbury kids?
Anyone know?
Let's face it. These kids do 95% or more of their training with their clubs and not much with ODP coaches.
So if these ODP kids do 95% of their training with their clubs, and one can assume many (most?) of the ODP kids are Bangu kids (they tend to hang in the same circles), why then did Bangu suck (again) at regionals?
Methinks the marketing machine does a better job attracting players than the coaching staff does developing them. Perhaps?
dagny,
Before your team can win at Regions you must win State Cup.
We won't hold our breath waiting for your DDs team to do that.
How dare you call these things "DD"s. They're more like "B"s.
I think I struck a choard when I said, "Methinks the marketing machine does a better job attracting players than the coaching staff does developing them."
Heck, if you've got all the best players, you should win EVERY age group at State Cup. Anything less should be considered failure.
Maybe it IS the coaching (or lack thereof).
Dagny
I agree with Dagny (where is that name from?) My club (and my kid's team) ends up with a few Bangu scraps after they reload with the best and brightest each fall, and we've been very successful at turning them into much better -- and certainly happier -- soccer players.
anon 11:06
All youth players should improve every year.
Guess your club is doing it's job.
Don't kids get better each year at Bangu too?
By the way...which State Cup age group did your team win this year?
Oh yeah. I know for a fact the Bangu girls teams who won State Cup this year were very happy too.
Funny how every Bangoon post ends with, "So, Bangu-Basher, how many State Cup titles did YOUR CLUB win this year?"
How childish. I'm glad all these parents will end up in one place. They need each other, and the rest of us don't need them.
Isn't it childish to brag about your club/teams and how they've improved all the ex-Bangu players while you continue to lose to them when it really counts?
Hey, how are them 99s doin at ODP?
LOL
It is also rather childish to name call and throw around terms such as "Bangoon" or "WeeWee".
It's like the pot calling the kettle black.
"The most thought-provoking thing in our thought-provoking time is that we are still not thinking. Thinking begins only when we have come to know that reason, glorified for centuries, is the stiff-necked adversary of thought." -Martin Heidegger
Thought we might take the attack-and-defend nature of this conversation to another level. Be, question, accept and appreciate what you have. Avoid justifying your own choices or judging the choices of others and you will find the world a better place. You must deal with the results of your actions, and others must deal with the results of their own actions. Rationalizing why one situation is better than another simply reflects the level of acceptance and faith you have in your own choices. For example, when kids tease someone else they are typically afraid of being teased about a similar attribute (i.e. a bully calling someone dumb).
The beautiful thing about a democracy is that there are a number of choices and new opportunities are always sprouting up. There is an opportunity for everyone. Those who accept and are happy with their choice of opportunity are typically those who are happiest in life, whether they are servicing mobile toilets or are high-powered business execs.
I would love to see how long we could go where the conversation focused on ideas as opposed to emotions. How long can we go without tearing someone down or feeling the need to boast about our choices? Maybe we can have constructive conversation?
1022 obviously inhaled.
OSEP - I couldn't agree with you more. In response to your "How long can we go without tearing someone down" comment, it will be interesting to see (I'll give a pass to 10:32 as I think that was more tongue in cheek).
1. Most CC players improve every year.
2. Most Bangu players improve every year.
3. From a winning standpoint, State Cup is the only tournament of the year in MN that really matters.
4. The goal of winning State Cup is a great developmental tool.
5. Bangu has won a lot of State Cups in recent years.
6. Overall, Bangu is the top football club in MN. They are a top football club in the Midwest.
7. CCs and Bangu are accomplishing their main goal: develop players.
8. Bangu parents are proud of their State Cup titles because that is a major goal of theirs.
9. CC parents dislike Bangu reminding them of their State Cup titles because Bangu has nearly monopolized State Cup.
10. Bangu needs to stop reminding everyone of their State Cup dominance. CCs need to accept that Bangu is the top football club in MN.
Peace, love, harmony, competition.
- CC Person
1041 - you are correct. Tongue planted firmly in cheek.
1106: Why do you think Bangu Players are unhappy? I know my daughter is happy playing with her friends on her Bangu team. To each there own, but to say that kids are not happy in Bangu is stupid. There might be a kid here and there not happy, but that happens across the board in all soccer teams. We left a CC because my daughter was not happy there. Glad Bangu was out there for her. Go MTA!
1106, was stating that the kids that came from Bangu to his/her club were unhappy. They were probably unhappy after they didn't make the team they thought they should make.
I nominate "CC Person" to be MTA's new director of marketing and deception.
Guess what, 8:45, my kid's team beat the Goons at State Cup. Had I known State Cup was so important to the Goons, we would have thrown the game. Sorry about that.
anon 10/7 11:33
Your # 7.......develop players????
Who and where are these well developed players of which you refer?
Name a few.
I'm not anon 11:33 but...
How about the 17 girls on the Tsunami Stars U17 team who have received college scholarship offers?
The core group on that team has been together for 8-9 years.
I'm not going to give names but you know who many of them are.
The last two U19GP teams from SCV were ALL collegiate scholarship players. Why do all the good players have to consolidate at Thwingu again?
anon 3:55
Nobody is saying that.
All the players are "free agents" and can play for whichever club they think suits them best.
If they like SCV then they can do that. If they prefer MTA so be it.
It's a free country and nobody "owns" these players.
397
398
399
400!!!!!
I love how my 10-year-old is considered a "free agent."
Does MTA have to cut down everyone else in order to make themselves look good?
And why are they allowed to recruit players at games in July? I thought everyone had to wait until August.
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