With all the nonsense in the previous posting, its time to let the kids play. Looks like MN weather will keep the games from starting for a few more days. Hopefully the fields will hold up. Good luck to everyone in the tournament!
Schedule and results here: http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/events/statecup.cfm#sched
1,034 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 1034 Newer› Newest»Don't take that out of context. If they are not at the time able and willing to train and be part on the program, They need to stay at their cc until it works for them.
As a Bangu Parent my hopes are that all the talented players from the CC's come to try outs. No matter how good a current team is you can always get better.
yeah, right 3:37. That's until your daughter doesn't make the team. Then you'll be singing the same, sorry tune as other bitter people on this blog.
State Cup question...
I was just looking at the brackets on the MYSA Web site. Why do all the schedules now say "NA" for the date and time of the championship games.
3:48 - classic 21st century response...."failure must be blamed on someone or something else"
348, Actually I am dead serious. Our daughter came to Bangu to play with girls with the same interest and ability. If by chance there are 16-18 girls better than her than she should not be on the team. What good would complaining on this blog do. Knowing my daughter she would still want to play and would try to prove her old coach wrong by her play on the field. At least that's what I would try to teach her to do and hopefully should would agree.
I've got a better idea, how about the Bangu kids go find one of four or five teams that are good quality in terms of coaching and work ethic then we will have a broad pool to draw regionally competitive teams from without the constant badgering of player's parents with distortions. Any player that wants can train 5 days per week with high level training whithin minutes of their home.
4:37 - good idea, the only drawback would be that for the players (any players for that matter - not just Bangu) to maximize their training, it is usually best to train with equally skilled players. This isn't some form of elite training snobbishness, but reality. Why do all clubs have C1, C2, and sometimes C3 teams all at the same age? Why not combine the C1 & C2 teams and have two mixed teams? The answer is that the top level players will not develop as well at whatever level unless they are surrounded by like skilled players,
4:48 you are correct, all good training stratifies the players based on their progress. There is no need to consolidate 11 year old kids on one team and have them in the car more than training. Good training will, for even medium size clubs probably combine some years, 10-12 split into groups etc. The leap made by that particular recruiting propaganda is specious in that the implication is other training does not split kids based on progress.
437- Did anyone badger you about your kid and what was the distortion. Did someone tell you your kid was good and you knew better. I would take 3 days of quality training with similar skilled players than 5 days with unsimilar skilled players. In response to your broad pool comment, We will have less really talented players and more mediocre players. The top end players will never reach their potential doing what you recommend, thus killing any chances regionally or nationally sucess.
5:06 you are making the same point as 4:37 yes training with similarly skilled kids is best, you can and should strive for that. Point is you can do that without all the running around town and more to the point, training and skill development needs more emphasis than winning games or what out of town tournaments young teams can get in.
what great memories the kids will have from going out of town to just play soccer! i know my daughter can't wait to hit the road to play soccer. no one said it was for everyone. if it is not for you and your daughter, then that is just fine.
Thunder/Bangu will be a success with or without the co-operation of the other clubs/ccs.Kids who want to play with the best will gravitate to the Thunder/Bangu.That's just the way it's going to be so it's best to get used to it.
505-If the club teams stay in state and plays the CC's people get all bent out shape when they lose, and you then rip the clubs when they go out of state to play. Obviously many people disagree with your statement that you can get quality training without traveling because there are a lot of people who do travel to get that training. Most importantly is why do you care if we travel to practice. If you really think local CC's have the amount of talent at each age group to good age group training you really need to get out and watch. Try watching State Cup. Most of the Club teams that are winning train year round and have like ability players. CC's will have some good players, but the Clubs have more experienced and better players from top to bottom. Club teams spend way more time on skills then they do playing games.
C'mon people, give it a rest.
This same old tired argument has been going on for years. There is no solution that will come from all this back and forth and Bangu hating.
My suggestion is that unless someone has anything new, everyone should move on.
I for one, am glad this blog is about to go away. In my opinion it perpetuates the animosity that exists in youth soccer. Maybe once it's gone, people will cool down and forget why they dislike each other and we can finally move forward in this state.
I know it's coming, so yes I have a daughter in Bangu. I also have another daughter in a CC. They both have different interests, and I for one am glad there is somewhere, like Bangu, for my daughter to play. In fact, her old coach suggested we move. Isn’t that how it should be – what’s best for the player?
I too am not sorry it will be gone. I am tired of the attitude from Bangu types that the rest of the soccer world sits around seething with anger over one soccer club. Here's an idea, if it is so great, how about going and doing your thing but giving the constant bragging to others a rest. Keep it a big secret. Furthermore aside from the people on this blog I'm assuming it is truly few, most soccer players just want to train and play All this effort of back and forth is wasteful
How about them U-13 girls!!!
Oh to get back to the good ole days.
Strap yourselves in boys and girls the Bangidiots and the Banghaters are back and it's bound to be a wild ride!
Is there a need for MYSA to look at adding an 11 v 11 option at U12? The trend for teams playing up at U12 when they are U12 eligible may show a need to consider offiering that option.
I know some states do have a U12 state cup, I'm not suggesting that. I'm just wondering if adding an 11 v 11 option would help teams with their development.
5:51 - In one word, NO.
If your U12s are that good, play up to U13 or whatever. The majority of U12 kids are not ready for the big field and the big goal.
6:31, I disagree.
Many other states play 11 v 11 at U12. I think it would help with development in Minnesota. U12 teams would have an extra year of full sided soccer under their belts before they started competing regionally ay U13.
Sounds like a good idea to me.
To take a u12 team to the 11v11 field you need a strong coach to make it work - as has been proven in recent years.
Moreover, at u12 on the girls side, our fields are too small for the girls' sizes to see any semblance of good soccer. Unless of course you count Gk to Gk punts good soccer.
I'd like to see us go to 9v9 on larger fields for the u12s, say 100x60.
People, it isn't developmentally appropriate for the younger ages to play 11v11. Our kids lack technical development and creativity. 11v11 does not help us develop these ideas. Playing a few scrimmages or matches is fine to open up their eyes to new ideas, but it also encourages coaches to over-coach the tactics of the game. Great players understand the dynamics of 1v1, 2v1, 2v2, 3v2 and 3v3 play, that should be the focus. Our older players still struggle with those concepts because we (and I include myself) have put too much emphasis on winning and that generally hinges on big game tactics (i.e. a flat back four or a three-front). Look at the greats and you will see that they come from less tactically-focused countries.
This is from the English FA's Best Practices:
The Football Association (FA), the governing body of English football, has made the following
recommendations regarding the Football Academy program, which targets the top young
players in England and is run as a mandatory developmental arm of the top professional league
in England (the English Premier League –EPL):
* Players aged 12 to 18 should play a maximum of 30 games per year with their club.
* No 11-a-side soccer until age 12.
* The level of competition should be compatible with the player's colleagues and opposition.
(e.g., Not so difficult that success is not an option, and not so easy that the players become
unmotivated.)
* Clubs and coaches should take care that players: Play alongside, and against, boys of a
comparable standard, enabling them to put into practice skills learned during the week in an
environment where they will be stretched.
* Play in a competitive environment where quality of performance is more important than
results.
* The facilities (field size, ball, etc.) and match officials should also be compatible with the
player's ability.
* The atmosphere surrounding this program should emphasize the role of matches as part of a
development program in which the result is not of primary importance. The coaching staff
should use the match program to reinforce the key aspects of the player's individual technical
development.
10:03 - doesn't your english description suggest 11v11 at u12? wasn't that the point?
here is the one question i have about bangu. i don't see anything wrong with the message of consolidating top players at bangu to form an elite club. but i ask then, why over the years have my kids (girls) played numerous 'poor' bangu teams in league that have no business playing the level they are at? i can't tell you how many times my kids have played B level bangu teams with one good players that sits at the offsides line while the rest of the kids pack the box and dump it up top. granted, many cc teams do that but the question why would bangu allow it? how about this, bangu only fields top quality kids on high level tournament only teams and leave the rest of the kids to the cc? we have played some bangu teams in leagues over the years (mainly on the girls side but sometimes on the boys) that are terrible and it throws the whole 'elite club' argument out. bangu would be more appealing to me (and my kids) if they always saw a quality product. just charge more for the good teams, and allow the less skilled players to find their own quality cc in their area instead of relegating them to a poor team producing a less than high standard product.
honestly it is not the great bangu teams that is bothersome it is the all too prevelent poor ones
I've watched enough U13 matches where the U13 GK is (in some cases) barely over 4 feet tall. Defending a goal that is 8 feet high.
For those U12 kids who are "elite," (you define that for me) go ahead and play 11v11 at U13. But the vast majority of U12 players ARE NOT READY FOR A FULL-SIZED PITCH! So please do not impose on those kids who are out playing for fun. Unlike some of you in here, there are some U12 parents out there who want their kid to play for fun and will not be upset if their daughter does not make the US Women's team by the time they are U14.
Expanding the size of the pitch is fine--there already is latitude for that. Most of the constraints on U11/12 field size are governed by the size of the green space and what the club field coordinator specifies to the city (or cities).
10:20: that's the whole point. The lesser quality teams are cash cows.
on another note - this should provide some dicussion. It appears the Bangu machine is dictating when ODP tryouts are to occur.
http://www.roadtoregionals.com/9394g-journal/
"I had asked the 94 and 95 girls to forego ODP tryouts this morning, knowing the importance of the game tonight. This was about putting personal goals aside for the good of the team. Some of the parents were a little put out that their daughters missed the first day of ODP tryotus yesterday, and were now being told to skip today by their coach. But I had spoken to ODP officials already and they were open to setting aside a make up date on May 18 for all those girls missing, know the MRL and State Cup conflicts we were facing."
Not sure how you jump from requesting a make up date (which ODP officials were receptive of) to "dictating when ODP tryouts are to occur".
We all see what we want to see.
And from the same journal:
Prior to the game, we sat that girls down to talk to them about the offside trap that NSSA liked to pull on free kicks near midfield. We’d likely only have one chance to break it, so we discussed the duties of the forwards at the defensive line (to run back to the ball to stay onside or to drop to one knee if they knew they were caught offside in order to not be involved in the play). We also talked about the delayed run from deeper midfield players and the service of free kicks. I also talked to the refs prior to the game to make sure they were aware of what we would be doing in order to avoid a hasty offside flag and whistle when players were clearly in offside positions but not attempting to track down through passes.
My we like to influence everyone and everything.
I always love the references to "I also talked to the refs prior to the game..."
Last coach that tried that one on me was asked if he wanted me to offer him some coaching suggestions.
He got the message and left.
To 11:07. Having another tryout date isn't dictating ODP tryout? There are two dates. Make them. People see clearly.
Sounded like a request that MYSA ODP had the option to either grant or deny. IMO, that is a huge difference between "dictating" something. But like I said, we all see what we want to see (or are just blinded by hate).
MYSA should have said a big no to the request. IMO it was dictating and no, I'm not blinded by hate.
An experienced coach knows a team pulls an offside (or is it offsides? I never know) trap and talks to the officials prior to the game to let them know that he knows the other team does this and wants the refs to be aware of it. Hmm. Seems fairly smart.
Tomass and Smurf, I'm REALLY interested on your takes on this one - in respect.
I saw a similar situation with another coach who plays a short corner that involves some deception of a player touching the ball, then leaving the corner for another player to apparently come to take the kick. Since the ball is in play already, the second player dribbles in to catch his opponents off guard. The refs were prepped prior to the game. Again, fairly smart.
If MA's guilty of anything it's underestimating the quality of State Cup officiating at the U14 level. The nerve of the guy. He knew he was being so underhanded and sneaky - then he goes and posts his rational in the public domain.
ODP is trying to dance around State Cup and Midwest Regional League. And a horrible spring. They could have said no, but they would have lost most of their top 94s coming off this team. Special treatment for the "elite"? You bet. But isn't ODP for the elite?
ODP always preaches club soccer comes first. Looks like they stayed true to their word. Good lesson for us all though - you don't get anything you don't ask for.
We all see what we want to see sums it up perfectly.
Agreed, and for all those who think there are no politics in ODP I hope your eyes were opened.
11:55 - you must have a '93 or '94 daughter. I would suggest you have your daughter attend the make up date. If you daughter is not either one of those birth years, I am not sure why you would (or should) even care.
As a FYI, there are kids every year in almost every birth year who miss some (if not all) of the ODP tryouts and still make the team. There are also non-ODP players who are asked to be on the team and get to short circuit the whole process. ODP's goal is put together the top 18 players at each birth year - period. As far as I know, there are no bonus points for attendance.
Actually you are wrong. The rub comes here, how many ODP potentials does a team or club need to get a make up date? I really have no problem with as said above some bypass this and are part of the team that goes. That is not as big of a deal as one club getting to wheedle a new date. Again how "good" or "important" does the club or team need to be to get preferentially treated? Answer that then we'll continue the discussion
I wouldn't copy anything England is doing. They havent done squat in world cup for twenty years. England's teams have been slapped around pretty good by some very small countries.Go copy Brazil or Italy. England excells in beer,cigars and whining.
Fish-n- chips too!
12:17 - I understand where you are coming from. If your child's team is in the same situation as the Bangu team in question, I would ask MYSA ODP and see what they have to say. No reason why everyone could not be included in the make up date. There are other teams that are in State Cup and MRL besides U14 Bangu.
"wheedle"? "dictate"? The coach made a request, no more - no less. This isn't a club issue, but a specific team issue. If you have bigger issues, I would take it up with MYSA ODP (get in line).
Why have the charade then, have the ODP staff select the teams without tryouts.
Much the why MDW did with her age group. She told the girls after the first tryout that the team was already selected. Could it be money??
HAAAAHAAAHAHAHAAHA!!! OMG, some of you are so moronic. Read up on a coach's blog, then cut, paste, and destroy on another blog looking for sympathetic ears. Get a fricking LIFE!!!! HAHAHAHAHAA!!! I can't stop laughing at you people.
This coach is looking out for his team. If only more coaches were as passionate. Sure, he's looking out for himself as well, but aren't we all?
ODP was smart to allow these girls to make up a missed weekend because ODP is here for those players. I applaud MYSA for thinking about the players here, regardless of which club they came from. Good on ya!
As for the offsides issue, my team is tormented by another team in our league that uses a trap. You can bet your bottom dollar that I'll be working on how to beat it AND speaking with every ref crew that has the pleasure of officiating our games from here on out. Want to give me pointers on coaching? Please do. I'll take all the help I can get.
Lastly, for all you cut-paste-and-haters, why didn't you cut and paste this, from the same blog entry.
We won a corner kick to the left of the NSSA goal as we faced it. Blondie (RM) stepped up to take it. The wind was blowing across the field into Blondie’s face, but slightly at our backs, towards the NSSA goal. Blondie is right footed and hit an in-swinger that saw the ball rotate right to left towards the goal. Got the picture? Good. Then someone please explain to me the physics of this situation as the ball was served, bent in, caught the NSSA GK a bit by surprise as she was moving to her left, then back to her right as the ball swerved in towards goal, hit her hands, trickled into the net, AND WAS THEN CALLED OUT OF BOUNDS BY THE AR STANDING NEXT TO BLONDIE. What?!?!? It’s just not possible for a ball to have the bend Blondie imparted onto it bend first out of bounds, then back in bounds to then bend back in towards the goal.
I was stunned at the call. Cook and I were both yelling out to the center ref to explain how that call was made, he finally had enough and came over to shut us up, telling us he’d discuss it after the game. After the game?!?!? What good would that do us?
Looks like MA was right on when giving this crew a heads up prior to the game.
Please, cut, paste, and hate more. Hillary still is in the race, I need a good laugh.
My daughter is a 94 and she does not play for MA. EVERYONE recieved an e-mail inviting them to the make up session on May 18. Let's not jump to conclusions.
12:49 please, with a disjointed rant like that, don't call others morons.
And have all your daughters wear powder blue shorts and socks.
Do you think the cut and pasters might be cut and pasting because they are trying to fish for the hateful comments. And they are the ones laughing?
Hateful how? Do you mean hateful like " fill in the coach/doc/club__________________ is a good person but they can't possibly give yor kid the environment they need. or saying CC like it's a disease to parents of 9 year olds? Bad mouthing the efforts of other coaches and teams in order to create doubts in parents minds? What type of hate are we referring to?
So what did the center ref say after the match? That part is noticeably absent from the rant...
Nothing like a little MA talk to bring out the haters - who in turn bring out the insecure cowards armed with the same old anti-MA/Bangu ammo, just waiting for their chance to demonstrate additional petty spite and ignorance in their posts.
Keep it coming, your thoughts are all so constructive to Minnesota soccer. Where would we be without you?
I must be MA.
What blog in any area is constructive? What planet do you live on ? This is the old town pub where people go to say things they wouldn't otherwise. Do you really think there are solutions to be had in this format? Keep calling all others haters that is very helpful to soccer here in Mn.
Excellent post 1:39 and when I want something really high brow I go to RTR to read about MA'S junior high school years!
I think MA is a pretty good writer. I enjoy his RTR. If my kid had that passion for soccer and talent, he would be a great teacher of the game. Those girls have been fortunate. My kid didn't like the Bangu lifestyle and we moved on. Wish I could find one like him in the world of hockey.
Amen brother! Yep, that's my favorite reading, too! I especially liked the Thunder stories where he told about his little girls fan club chanting his name and showing signs (there was even a really cute picture!) and applying pressure to his coach, who finally put him in the game. I especially liked the way he was able to criticize his coach and the other players on his team and paint himself as a hero in a 5-0 (roughly)loss. The writing was just so amazing. My heart still flutters just remembering reading those words.
How was it that he wasn't a starter? Oops, did I just wake up from my daydream? Dang.
1:43 if you were MA, you would feel much better about yourself if you revisited the fantasy world on RTR.
HAHAHAHA!!! keep em coming haters.
2:09 I lost my bet with a co-worker on how quickly the hater label would come I needed 30 minutes!
2:09 - betting with a co-worker regarding a blog posting.......I'm not sure any of us need anymore description as to who we are dealing with......
10:31 I would like to ask if, in your mind, it would make sense to have 12C1 play on the larger field, and keep C2,3 on the 8v8 field. The reason I ask is; at u-12 you declare your play level, you do not earn it and by having two field size/#players options it may encourage only the teams who have depth to chose the C1 option. Typicallly it is only the better teams who want to skip an age group and only because they want the additional space, or the ability to accommodate a deeper pool of talent at a given age. The remainder of the age group would still play 8v8 where their development will be maximized.
At U-12 currently you get a big number of C1 teams playing who would be better served playing C2. Actually a "true" C1 talent team at U-12 gets good competition only about half of the time.
My thoughts are that a split league so to speak at this age may be logical.
I also believe many U-10 tyeams would be better seved playing on the U-11 size field for largely the same reasons.
Thoughts ?
No my daugter does NOT play for Bangu, and has never been cut from any team. I am a CC Parent.
I'm sorry 3:54 your normal thoughts/questions on a normal topic has no place on this thread. Seriously, thank you for changing the topic and hopefully bringing back some order, respect and intellect.
the rationale for playing 8 v 8 at 12 is sound. There will always be teams that are exceptional and can, not should, compete at the 13 11 v 11 level. If a club has that many overqualified 12's why not field two teams? I have been watching this play up to 13 thing grow and am not convinced it is better. How does it benefit Minnesota soccer to have more and more teams doing this? I see more teams "me tooing" in an attempt to keep up with what others are doing IMHO
4:10 I know there are strong opinions on this 8v8 or 11v11 at 12. To answer your questions as I see it.
Two teams works well if a club has Many top qualified players ie, 20 plus kids. Most don't have that many kids. A typical situation would be 14-16 talented kids (not enough for two 8v8 teams of equal play level kids) who make the step up to the older age group. Perhaps by having them play 11v11 at their own age more kids could play at a field size helping them maximize their development without having to compete against players who are a full year plus older than they are.
I agree with your point that having more teams playing up is not in itself a good thing. I think some kids #17 and #18 on the roster may in fact develop better playing at their own age. But if it is a popular choice and many people believe it is the best option for their team/child why not have the split league to accommodate them without messing up the true U-13 bracket with 12 year old teams?
My biggest concern on splitting up U12 is that you would have a two-class system: the haves and the have nots.
The reality is we are dealing with a small number of kids. The larger problem is the parent who is more concerned with their daughter playing 11 v 11 and being perceived to be "at the top of the class" versus a kid who is not physically ready to play on a regulation pitch.
Personally, I wish they would increase the size of the U11/U12 pitch a bit. Some of the fields are crackerbox sized.
Anon 1031
Anon 1159
as a coach you always try to cover your basis in regard to the referee. I have had that same corner kick play called back after scoring a goal because I did not inform the referee that we had a short corner play; Some do not pay attention and some will use unsportsman like behavior for deliberate trickery on a free kick.
I talk with them more so to get a feel of their possible capability. Those that like to explain how they will call the game or how they will handle certain situations are the ones to be careful of because you never want to paint yourself into a corner as a referee so in many instances these referees are usually the inexperience ones and may be over their head for the game.
If I identify a referee that may be suspect in his ability, I try to reinforce that I think it is more important for them to work as a team to get calls and laws applied correctly rather than just trying be right because he/she has a whistle
At our MRL game I tested the 4th official with some questions and the responses he gave me indicated he was well trained and experienced.
When I was still able to referee, coaches that would come to me to talk me about certain things would get, I'll give both teams the best game I have, apply the laws of the game according to how I interpret the situations I see".
Good referees and AR's are attentive to how a team is trying to play and how the other team is responding. They also try to share this information with each other at halftime along with possible player situations on the field.
I have never changed a referee's mind as hard and as many times that I have tried. I only end up getting myself in trouble
Mark Abboud... if this many people are bitching about him he must be doing something right.
That is quite a solid bit of logic there.
Well, there is a lot of state cup action this weekend. The semi finals will be set (with the exception of the 16s) after this weekend.
What are the good match ups?
Who will advance?
Friday
U13
Woodbury vs. St. Croix
Burnsville vs. Tonka
Bangu Blue vs. Edina
Bangu South vs. Prior Lake
Minneapolis United vs. Wings
Wayzata vs. Kelix
Maplebrook vs. PSA
Bangu East vs. Blackhawks
Saturday
U14
Wings vs. Northern Lights
Wayzata vs. Rev
U16
Kelix vs. Lakeville
Wayzata vs. Woodbury
Burnsville vs. St. Croix (PR)
Maplebrook vs. St. Croix (MW)
Edina vs. PSA 16PR
Sibley vs. Bangu Blue
Rochester vs. North Metro
PSA 16C1 vs. Blackhawks
U17
Eagan vs. Tonka
Woodbury vs. Bangu Blue
Maplebrook vs. White Bear
Blackhawks vs. Wings
Kickers vs. Cottage Grove
Eden Prairie vs. Bangu White
Sunday
U16
Woodbury vs. Kelix
Lakeville vs. Wayzata
St. Croix (MW) vs. Burnsville
St. Croix (PR) vs. Maplebrook
Bangu Blue vs. Edina
PSA vs. Sibley
Blackhawks vs. Rochester
North Metro vs. PSA
U17
Bangu Blue vs. Eagan
Tonka vs. Woodbury
Wings vs. Maplebrook
White Bear vs. Blackhawks
Bangu White vs. Kickers
Cottage Grove vs. Eden Prairie
Funny how Abboud had the guts to sign his name on his posts yet all those attacking him don't have the balls to sign their names to their posts.
What will all those cowards do when this blog goes away?
Maybe they'll approach him on the pitch and speak their minds right to his face?
Not a chance. The only way those cowards would dare is as a anonymous blogger.
How about some U17 talk?
The 1st day was a shot at MRL from the CCs. Probably a 1 day blip, but fun anyway.
Kickers, a perpetual top C1, ties EP. WBL (C1) whacks Wings 3-0, a Premier League MRL team, in WBLs 1st game this year. Eagan, also playing their 1st game, loses only 1-0 to Eclipse (1st place in 1st Div MRL West), which probably will cost Eclipse a semi-final berth unless they can beat or stay very close to Bangu Stars.
Bangu Stars deserve no flack for the 12-0 win over Tonka. What is a nationally competitive team supposed to do when playing a team that has played only one season at C1? Breaks of State Cup draw.
Predictions
WBL, Stars, and EP win pools
Wings benefits from weakest pool to
make semis with two 3-0 wins.
Stars win (big surprise)
ODP May 18 is the make up date for the canceled ODP May 3 due to the weather. It is not for any specific clubs or teams.
In U13 league play, Keliix wins 2-0over Tonka tonight in an exhibition game.
10:01, so how come you did not sign your name (or moniker)?
Personally, I could care less about MA or any of that stuff.
10:01 First, an anon post ripping people for being anons is kind of silly. This is a State Cup blog stick to that
Since the U13 group play concludes tonight, here's my take on who advances...
I think Tonka takes group A. They lead in the tie breakers at this point and need a 1-0 win to advance. I don't think Burnsville scores on Tonka's keeper (probably the best in the age group)
Bangu Blue takes group B - enough said there.
The wings take group C - no brainer...
And in a testament to how weak this aged group really is - the Bangu East (U12) team takes group D. Maplebrook still has a shot if they win and the 12s tie, that is not out of the question, but I still think the 12s pull it off.
The semi final game between the Wings and Bangu Blue will decide the champion, the advantage goes to Bangu.
What happenned to Tonka against Kelix ?
This result surprises me. Congratulations to Kelix , exibition game or not it looks like you girls are starting to put it together.
Looks like Tonka's keeper got scored on twice last night.
Thank you for talking State Cup even if it's 13s. Random draw is the only way to go for this age group but a team or two probably are misplaced by luck of the draw.
Can't speak to the quality of goalkeeping at Tonka, But I do know that Burnsville does have a couple of scorers. They can score equally well from both sides of the field. May actually be stronger from the left side .
If Tonka plans to beat Burnville tonight they better play good defense and not let it get to the keeper because Bville has some strikers that will find the back of the net if they get a clean shot.
8:56 I am interested in what teams you think are misplaced. I am not in disagreement with you but if you were to rebracket from day one how would you have mixed it up?
Group A is very interesting. I agree Tonka controls their destiny tonight because of the tie breakers. Woodbury still has a very solid shot of coming out of this group.
One thing I would have changed would have been to have the Play in game be a random draw between the 3 U-12 teams. Doesn't seem right that the only Premier team in the bracket had to play in to make the Tournament. Likewise the U-12's theoretically are asking to be included in a U-13 event. Can you imagine the outrage if a U-13 team was beaten in the play in game and lost the opportunity to participate in State Cup.
As it turned out no u-13 team did lose the opportunity to play, but this needs to be corrected in the future in my mind.
9:21 - I understand your POV, but you start heading down a slippery slope when decisions like this are made. If they are registered as a U13 team, then there really isn't IMO a lot you can do. Should they have seeded as #1 the U13 team that is playing U14? IMO, no, as that would not be right as well. This only happens at U13 and impacts maybe one or two teams. Next year the U12's that are playing U13 will still be at U13 and the U14's will seed this year's finalists. Your last sentence also confuses me.....if a U13 team could not beat a U12 team in a play-in game, then why should they be guaranteed a spot in a pool?
The current Bangu Blue team played U13 state cup last year.
Two true 13 teams had to play each other in a play in game. One was robbed of the state cup experience because the (then 12) bangu team did not have to participate in the play-in.
If I remember correctly, there was some anger about that situation last year.
If the best our state can contribute to regionals at U13 is a U12 team, so be it. Happened before, but doubt it will happen again
9:21 I was referring to a situation where the draw would have been two U-13 teams playing each other. I was not clear on my earlier point ...Sorry.
Can someone clear up an earlier question about the U-14 Bracket.
What significanc does the Wayzata / Rev game have on the brackets. Can Rev overtake Wayzata with a win?
How about the at large team, anyone figured out who leads the tie breakers.
Any help clarifying this would be appreciated.
12:05...
It's complicated.
If Wayzata wins, they win the bracket. Northern Lights would become the wildcard with a win. If Wayzata wins and NLS loses, Bangu Green would be the wildcard.
If the Rev win, and NLS wins their game, there will be a 3 way tie. The group winner and wildcard would depend on the scores because goal differential, then goals against, become the tie breakers.
If the Rev win and NLS loses, The Rev will win the group and Wayzata will be the wildcard.
Does that help?
I will try to sort out the 14's but I may miss something so don't jump me if I get it wrong =)
Three teams can win the group, NLS, Wayzatta and REV.
If REV wins and NLS wins all three teams have 6 points. Than it would be goal differential. If teams are tied on goal differential than their would be fewest goals allowed.
All three teams control their own destiny, however REV need to beat Wayzatta by two goals to be sure if NLS wins.
If REV beat Wayzatta by two they pass Wayzatta. If that happens and NLS win by two Wayzatta is out.
If REV win by one and NLS by one than Wayzatta will win the group and REV get the wild card.
Wayzatta is group winner with a point.
IF NLS and REV both have 4 points than NLS will be the second placed team and Bangu green will win the wild card (plus one goal differential).
If NLS lose and REV tie 0-0 than their will be a shoot out between Bangu Green and REV. If NLS lose and REV tie with a score other than 0-0 than Bangu green is in.
NSSA is out same goal differential as Green but more goals allowed.
Apologize if I missed something
Swedish Smurf
I think it's great that it comes down to the final two games at 14. It should be fun.
the u13 group has very little suspense tonight and probably a bunch of lousy games. best games hands down is burnsville versus tonka. i think the 4 best teams in the tournament are bangu u14, tonka, woodbury and burnsville but unfortunately only 2 can make it to the semi finals
Thanks SS and 1:20. After reading the responses you gave I feel better about my self confessed confusion.
What happenned to Tonka against Kelix in league play ?? 3-0 loss.. Very unexpected. Congrats Kelix.
Any results from tonight?
Tonka's goalie was out with a sprain or broken wrist or hand. She didn't play last night or tonight. Very unfortunate for her. Last I saw, Tonka was still up 1 to 0 against Burnsville. Bangu Blue 3-1 against Edina.
Bangu 14P is obviously the best team in this tournament. No, I am not a Bangu parent, but i have seen them play multiple times and no one in this tournament stands a chance. No one stands out as being the "best" on their team, but instead, they have about 10 extremely skilled players. They create many opportunities to score, and deserve to be off to Regionals. They play hard, yet clean, and are very committed. I don't know if you know this, but this team got excepted into the Las Vegas college Showcase this March. That is the number 4 ranked tournament in the nation. Impressive?
For those of you who play against Bangu 14p, I advise you come ready. Don't expect a win because no other team stands a chance. They truly deserve this. Bangu spends all winter working hard, and now that they are playing at their own age, its their time to shine
U13 results...
Woodbury 0 - St. Croix 0
Tonka 2 - Burnsville 0
Tonka Advances
Bangu Blue 3 - Edina 1
Bangu South 1 - Prior Lake 1
Bangu Blue Advances
Wings 1 - Minneapolis United 0
Wayzata 2 - Kelix 0
Wings Advance
PSA 1 - Maplebrook 0
Bangu East 3 - Blakhawks 0
Bangu East Advances
Semi Finals
Tonka Vs. Bangu East
Bangu Blue Vs. Wings
1006, Bangu U13's Got into the Vegas Tournament based on the Clubs name not their accomplishments. I don't believe they have ever had a winning record in any out of State tournament ever!! There time to shine? They deserve to go to regionals? How about winning first. For such a great team you would have thought you would have beat Edina by more than 3 to 1. Ouch!! If you are rooting for Bangu to lose anytime soon this is the team to beat, as they are not as high a caliber team as the older or even younger teams.
anon 1006 is fishing.
I think you're right tomass.
Since it is fishing opener, my guess is 1006 and 1034 are one in the same. You troll one way and catch nothing, you then try to troll the other way, and you catch nothing.
A lot of games today, I hope they can get them all in.
U14
Group C and the wild card will be decided
U16
All I can say is FINALLY!
U17
Who will take control of their group?
U14
Wings vs. Northern Lights
Wayzata vs. Rev
U16
Kelix vs. Lakeville
Wayzata vs. Woodbury
Burnsville vs. St. Croix (PR)
Maplebrook vs. St. Croix (MW)
Edina vs. PSA 16PR
Sibley vs. Bangu Blue
Rochester vs. North Metro
PSA 16C1 vs. Blackhawks
U17
Eagan vs. Tonka
Woodbury vs. Bangu Blue
Maplebrook vs. White Bear
Blackhawks vs. Wings
Kickers vs. Cottage Grove
Eden Prairie vs. Bangu White
1006- you are obviously a parent on the 14"Premier" team or you wouldn't write such foolish things! They are OK at their age group, but other than that, they really don't fair well out of state or in the U14 Premier league as I believe they LOST 5-0 - There's another OUCH for you.
Ohhhh and 6:38 caught a big crappie!
i don't fish, sorry
I agree with 6:38, why do parents need to brag like this? The U13 blue team is a very good U13 team and had a fairly easy bracket in state cup. They will start having tougher competition to win the state cup and they will be really challenged to be successful in the U14 premier league. I think most Bangu parents would rather you not post these kind of comments (with bad spelling) and just let the kids play soccer and have some fun.
My current vision of the afterlife has St. Peter, standing outside the pearly gates, reading aloud every blog post you ever wrote.
1006 - If you are trying to do us a favor, thanks but no thanks. I am a parent of a girl on that team, and I would never make such arrogant statements, and I can't image any other parent on the team doing so either. Anything can happen (it's called an upset and it keeps the bookies in Las Vegas employed). So, if you are a true fan, come out and cheer on the girls. Or, if you are fishing as suggested, find another pond. We aren't biting.
So in other words 228, if your little superstars lose its an upset? Pretty arrogant.
any summaries of today's games?
U17 results...
Eagan 7 - Tonka 0
Bangu BLue 1 - Woodbury 0
White Bear 3 - Maplebrook 0
Wings 4 - Blakhawks 0
Kickers 0 - Cottage Grove 0
Bangu White 1 - Eden Prairie 0
Everything will be decided tomorrow...
how was the bangu v woodbury game
Woodbury played well. Stars well enough to hang on for the win. Woodbury will advance as wild card, I believe.
Bangu Select and WBL will round out the bracket.
547...keep fishing...the water is fine.
U14 Results
Northern Lights 3 - Wings 0
Wayzata 4 - Rev 0
Semi finals
Bangu Blue Vs. Northern Lights
Bangu White V.s Wayzata
The U16s FINALLY play - results...
Kelix 2 - Lakeville 2
Woodbury 4 - Wayzata 0
St. Croix (PR) 2 - Burnsville 0
St. Croix (MWRL) 1 - Maplebrook 0
PSA 1 - Edina 0
Bangu Blue 6 - Sibley 0
Oops, forgot the U16 D bracket - my apolgies
Rochester 0 - North Metro 0
Blackhawks 2 - PSA 1
Just heard that all games tomorrow are cancelled. The fields were a mess after the 5:00 games. The 16s may still be playing on the 4th of July.
First of all, I am not a 14P Bangu player, parent, or fan for that matter, but I have seen them play multiple times. They are the best 13 team I've seen in all my years of soccer. They are not the kind of team that has one particularly exceptional player, but instead have 17 very committed, athletic, and extremely skilled girls. These are the best girls in MN for their age group without a doubt. Bangu creates many opportunities to score, but also have an unstoppable defensive line.
I don't know if you know this, but Bangu 14P got accepted into the Las Vegas College Showcase, which is the number 4 ranked tournament in the nation. Impressive?
I have watched all the teams that are considered to be the "best" teams in this tournament, and none of them can even compete with Bangu. After all, Bangu plays at 14 premier for league play, and they consider this as "playing down"
Unlike nearly every other team in this tournament, Bangu trains almost every day in the winter, and let me tell you, it shows. This group of girls is beyond committed, and deserve to be State Champs.
No team here stands a chance against Bangu 14 Premier. Just send them to Regionals now and save all the others the pain of losing.
I am a wings parent, and we are playing Bangu Tsunami and it is coming up pretty quickly, and I think that most of our girls are extremely scared. I think that even our coach is pretty scared for our girls. Bangu has been training so much harder than our girls , and that they deserve to win. We have worked pretty hard as well, but I think that they just have a better training system than we do, and better players because I have noticed that the girls that go over to them to try out are the ones that are sick of Bangu beating them and they are also sick of there club. My girls are going to try out next year, and to be honest I think that they will not make it because we have been with wings for so long now and they haven't gotten the right training to go over now.
Bangu has trained so hard this winter and I think that it has really paid off. We did not train that much this winter, and I think that if you watch this game against the two teams that you will be able to tell. Our girls will be willing to work hard while they have the chance to train, but the Bangu girls train hard every time.
The girls on that Bangu team, try out for ODP (my player told me about them) and are always undoubtedly the best players there. Bangu has a reputation of producing skilled players, and believe me, coaches know that.
I think everyone that is being hard on Bangu should give them a chance and look back on everything that I said and they will realize that they work hard to get to were they are now.
Okay, so I have read the many Bangu comments about the u 14 premier team and I don't think that any of them are true. I think that Bangu sucks . Every time we play them my kid comes off the field and the first thing she does is complain about how aggressive they are. If my child's team was that aggressive, it would be great because they don't have skills like Bangu. But Bangu doesn't need to play like that because they have skills that help them win a lot of there games. So I think that they need to lay off a little bit.
Wow, this is getting out of hand. I don't believe one of the last three post are real, if they are these people need to get a life or need to really think before they blog, but that may be asking to much for anyone to do on this site.
I think the kids (real ones) have found the site.
Happy Mothers' Day ????
I think you're right 11:04. And I believe some of the posts above should be deleted.
My daughter does play for the team in question and I guarantee those posts did not originate from anyone on our team. If it is someone from our team- KNOCK IT OFF!
They are posts from non-Bangu parents trying to write like a kid, who is pretending to be on non-Bangu team, but trying to give themselves away as Bangu players.
Sad, sick, pathetic...
I thought that this was suppose to be about the State Cup?
That is why this blog should be down. Blogging should never be about attacking any individuals or clubs
I agree. Someone please shut down this blog.
9:57's
If those are real posts, and I doubt they are, you are an inane clown(s). Bangu 14P is decent (I have no association with the team or club), and they are the favorite among the 4 remaining teams in the tournament, but the LV results and the early 14P league results are indicative of the fact that talent is spread all over this age group, and this team may be MN's best, but it's not the calibre of other top teams bangu or MN have produced.
This blog is a travesty and should be terminated. It simply perpetuates and increases all of the nasty parent and coach banter and takes the focus off of letting the kids enjoy the game.
I am personally interested in more fully developed details about the claims about MDW and her ODP selection process. Do you have proof (like a kid on the team who can attest to your claim), or is this just more repeating of rumors?
Why would anyone who thinks this blog should be shut down be on here commenting? Blogs are what they are. The truth is is a tiny, tiny group of people are on here (many multiple "identities"). If you think it is so horrible don't read or post here.
I am not a Bangu parent but I play one on TV.
Blogs also are accessed by players so this could very well be players posting thinking they are being funny. Kids will repeat things told to them by their parents because that is who they learn from. Being told all the time that "you are the best" and knocking down other players and teams is normal for some and it shows in their arrogant attitudes. Hopefully they are the first ones knocked off a team.
I find it very interesting that the most immediate response is "Bangu is under siege" If that club is the shining beacon of soccer goodness here then ignore the kind of things posted.
10:51 you make me nostalgic for the old U of MN thread on here. One Goober would leave a post bragging about all the Goo Girls getting scholarships from MDW. then two minutes later post a screed about MDW not being a good enough recruiter to get top talent.
She is a great coach spend your time on building it up not picking at the coach
I always love the "shut down the blog" posts. Here's a suggestion to all those people.......pretend or imagine in your minds that it is already shut down. Then you won't have the temptation to click on your mouse to access it ever again!
10:46 That is a great post! Spot on!
Did Tomass go anonymous? That is his favorite line.
1044,I agree talent is probably spread out more with this group than others, but I also think (based on watching a lot of games at State Cup) that this age group is lacking offensive strikers who can beat people 1v1 and create their own shoots. Ball striking is also something I think is lacking. On the positive side I think that most teams are fairly sound defensively and are fairly good at knocking the ball around.
It looks like the revamped schedules are now on the MYSA Web site. From what I cann see, ALL of the semi finals have now been moved to Sunday.
With the Finals indefinitely postponed, please identify the following for this weekend:
1. most competitive game;
2. most important/significant game (i.e., true Finals);
3. game likely to have the most enjoyable/impressive soccer played by one team; and
4. game likely to have the most enjoyable/impressive soccer played by both teams.
Predictions U13,
Bangu U13 (3) vs Wings (0)
Bangu U12 (2) vs Tonka (1)
1. U15 - Bangu vs. EP
2. U15 - Bangu vs. EP
3. U18 - Bangu vs. North Metro
4. I don't think that there are two solid teams at any age group that will "play soccer". There is typically one soccer team and one counter-attack team. If that's what you are looking for, you can get that at any age group.
For the semi finals that are already set...
U13 - The Bangu Blue/Wings game will decide the champion
U14
Bangu White/Wayzata game will be hard-fought.
The Bangu Blue team is always fun to watch.
U15
I think Eden Prairie and Wayzata will be close.
I agree with 340, Bangu EP will be a good game if they meet in the finals.
U16 and U17 are not yet set.
U18 will be one sided, Bangu clearly the favorite.
mrs robinson - great attention to detail, but I would never go that route. Take care
It's springtime and love is in the air.....sigh............
And there are more than a few maniacal fathers out there who will stop at nothing to "protect" their DD. To be sure, there are parents of boys out there who are just as bad, but they are not as numerous.
Any news on filling the coaching position at Eastview High School? Know who might be candidates?
A couple of U14 Premier games last night:
NSSA 3 - Bangu Green 0
Eagan 2 - Bangu U13 0
Wow, it sure has been quiet in here for a while. My guess is some teams didn't make the semi finals.
Here's my guess for the semis that are set, let's hope the field have recovered.
U13
Bangu Blue and Tonka will advance
U14
Wayzata game against Bangu Blue in the finals
U15
Bangu EP in the finals.
U18 Bangu will repeat as champs.
What about the 17s? I thought it would be Stars, WBL, WDB, and Bangu Select. Isn't it set?
Very likely that will be the lineup at U17 but it could change.
u13...
any opinions from anyone on who will take the title?
U13,
Bangu u13 vs Wings
Bangu wins 2-1
Tonka vs Bangu U12
Bangu wins 2-0
Bangu u13 vs Bangu u12
Championship game
Bangu u12 wins 2 - 1 in shootout or overtime.
You heard it here first!!
Spoken like an adoring U12 parent!
618,
You can’t blame them for having an inflated sense of their DD’s accomplishment. After all, they did come out of the softest group of one of the weakest age groups.
Semi-final prediction, Tonka 3 – 12s 0.
6:42 well said, but it will end up Bangu 14p 4-0 over Tonka. Bangu 14's are just the most consistant top to bottom.
657 I agree that the Bangu Blue team will win, but I don't see them putting in 4 against Tonka's keeper. I think 1 or 2 to 0 is more realistic.
Not that I think the U12's are great but I recall before state cup everyone saying how good PSA and Maplebrook were and that they could win state cup. Now that group is the softest. Interesting how that changes when a younger team has success.
The U12's will give Tonka a good game, my prediction one goal either way, it will not be 3-0.
8:10 You are correct, many ,including myself, thought that the Maplebrook and PSA teams would be the favorites and nobody gave your 12's much of a chance.
Your 12's have alot to be proud of as do the other Bangu 12 team who went 1-1-1 for the State cup. Actually if you look back all three 12 teams were respectable. The Rev team only lost to Bangu's 14P team 2-0 , maybe one of the toughest tests the 14's had. (I know the score may not be a perfect reflection of the game, but it helps my point so I'm using it :) ). In league play it doesn't look like the East 12 team has played but the south team is already 1-1 with only a close 1-0 loss to the south favorite Burnsville. The REV 12's are 1-0 in the South league so far too.
Way too soon to tell, but it looks like these teams are on their way to competitive seasons playing one year up.
Now the bad news for the "play a year up" fans. Bangu 14 p is having a tough go of it in the premier league. 0-2 and the games(scores) were not real close. Did anyone see the games?
IMO, ages 12-15 for girls is when even one year of physical maturation is huge. Not surprised that they might be struggling a bit especially if they play a possession style. If a good team plays a more direct style and has at least one big forward up top that usually gives a smaller, younger team fits.
8:56 OK I'll agree with you about the one year of physical maturation being huge at these ages. Then how do you explain the success they had to earn the Premier spot last year and the success of the U-12 playing 13 this year (State Cup and early league/tournament play).
Maybe there is truth to the previous posts indicating this age group (true U-13 ) is weak.?.
Let's also be honest. The current 13 Blues don't have the talent level of last year's 13s, nor the talent (potentially) that the 12s have.
Nice to see the Rev 12s find success. They are a good group. Does anyone think that next year the Rev and Bangu programs should work together to field one team capable of playing at the highest level? Would this be in the best interest of the top kids in both programs? Or is it better to have local competition for players at this age group?
IMO this year's 13s are a clear example of lack of consolidation at this age group and the low level of play we're seeing on the fields. Whoever wins will get spanked at Regionals. Maybe that's OK.
Anyone?
I think it is probably best to see how everything shakes out at State Cup and league play before making any final conclusions. Lots of factors involved....how tough was the U13 east division last year, how tough was the State Cup pool that the U12's played in at U13 this year, etc....
I do agree that not every age group is equal. Some have more depth and sometimes we get confused at the strength of an age group if there has been consolidation onto one team (U14's). Example, if you grade the U14 team as a "10", but the next two teams are an "8" and a "7", is that much different than three teams that are all possibly "8's"? Where you really see the depth in an age group is when they move out of state for competition and multiple teams have success outside of MN. Another example, the BNG U18's have had strong success the last few years, but how far is the drop off to the 2nd best team in that age group (other than SSM)?
Same example holds true at U16 where WDB Inferno have had great success nationally, but there is a gap between them and the balance of the age group.
If you are thinking to combine the top current U12 Bangu and Rev players to one "super team" at U-13 next year you may as well open it up to other strong players who have interest. Essentially you are asking if the MN Thunder program should happen.
I am sure the Bangu crowd would think it a great idea because that is what they do, they rotate the mix of the kids who try out regularly in an effort to create top teams. Is Dakota Rev interested in that type of an arrangement? If they had kids who wanted that type of a system why wouldn't they just try out for the Bangu team ?
Very interesting to contemplate mergers of top teams and the potential impact they could have regionally. Sounds like what the Thunder were trying to work on.
First, outside the people on this blog, all 6 of you who regularly contibute and the Bangu Thunder crowd Where is this great mandate for regionally competetive or nationally competetive teams? I've looked back at minutes from MYSA AGM for the past three years and have found no talk of this. That said, I'm for the concept but the issue is this, regardless of some of you who are blinded by Bangu fever we all must see that our present model (Bangu and the rest) is not working. Rebadging Bangu with Thunder will be more of the same.
U17 is an exception though. The Bangu Blue team has been the most successful team on a national level MN has had recently yet there are a couple of other teams, Wings and WDB who also have had some success at the regional level, Wings in particular. Just a deep age group? Better coaches? Better pooling of talent? Luck? Why? As others have stated at U16 and U18 we have one nationally competitive team and then a huge dip.
954 what is not working? Our top teams at the older age levels can compete with anyone. Are they the best teams in the country? No, but you are unlikely to get that regardless of the system.
if the "system" is working why the rush to Bangu/Thunder? Why all the online angst about consolidation? How many posts are here regarding theories as to the 13 age group? I do not see a mandate to spend all this energy on superteams but many on here must. They also continually paint themselves into a corner promoting the Bangu system as the way then saying we need Bangu/Thunder to be competetive. I say renaming the same thing is still the same thing. Not bad or unworkable by my definition but others here seem to want something different. My point is the change needs to be bigger or it is a bunch of effort for similar results.
9:54 I agree, but there are seven people, you forgot to include yourself. The only way the Thunder plan works is if they have only one team per age 13 Plus, and DO NOT play MYSA. I question how many kids would want to leave their good to very good CC teams, to chase after regional or national glory. If they were of that mindset they would already play for Bangu .
It seems clear to me,a non-Bangu person,that many kids play multiple sports,have siblings who are in sports/activities, have family Lake Cabins, don't have unlimited financial resources, Choose to round out their lives with more than just soccer. These kids/families, DON'T want the Bangu way. I have not ripped Bangu on this blog because I think it is great that those of you who do desire the pursuit of greatness in the soccer world and who want to focus solely on this activity for your child have a source to provide you that opportunity.
The well run community club is a wonderful option for MANY kids in MN. Many CC teams are highly competitive against the the Non-community clubs. I wish both sides well, their is a place for both.
If the Thunder program ends Bangu as we know it today someone else will pop up in the current Bangu's likeness. ie: Twin City Fire.
Pick the option best for your child , I am very happy with my childs CC, they are very competitive and are learning the game with their classmates and Neighbors. That is a good thing in my book.
9:58 - I would agree that the U17 age group has more depth than either U18 or U16.
What's funny is you read all these comments on consolidating teams and it appears there are more yea's than nay's (like judging diving contests, I throw out the high - most in favor, and the low - most opposed). Thunder Academy seems like the right direction, just not sure if the resistance is due to its details or the messenger (BNG/MA).
The over/under is 30 minutes before "goober-boy" lobs one out there.
954, you either don't believe the talented players should be surrounded by other talent in order to increase the chances that those players will reach their true potential (should they choose), or you don't have a kid who would fall into the "soccer talent" category. Either way, to each their own. Might want to take it up with your school system though and try to get gifted and talented programs outlawed. Might as well do away with accelerated and AP classes. We should all be equal.
11:03 - as they say on this blog..."spot on".
While we are at it, let's do away with the top AAU youth basketball teams, youth all-star baseball teams, select hockey teams, elite competitive dance groups, high-level piano competitions, etc... Except for football which is primarily high school focused, every activity out there attempts to group people (both youth and adult) by like abilities. Where it gets sticky is when someone decides who belongs in what group.
1103, I think you hit it out of the park.
You seem to miss the point, but this is fun. I am pro top talent, top teams. I also am quite sure that true top talent will be just fine and identified NO MATTER WHERE THEY PLAY they will find and be found without people worrying about the kid's "best interest". Now to the point If what we have now is good and the model we're using works, Let's not spend time nor energy on this. If we want something new I submit that re-badging what we have is a waste of everone's time. I think the hockey model works fine for hockey, AAU b-ball is great for b-ball too. Trust me, read posts from ex bangu parents if you want to hear from people who want equal. I'm neither of those. To get to the next level for lack of a better term we need to rethink how we do this. The same evaluators pitching the same lines to the same parents will result in what we have now. Small point, it makes sense to insulate the identification of players from the business such as "we have a sibling on another team we need this kid too or mom and dad will flip" Trust me that goes on at our CC's and the other clubs you're dumb or blinded if you think otherwise. This smaller realities need to be looked at before we all jump on the latest thing from the music men.
11:46- nice level headed response, thanks (doesn't always happen on this blog). In my mind, the debate isn't whether the model is good, but can it be improved. Identifying top talent and consolidating it are two different things. The Thunder model of regional academies through U12 and then funnelled into top elite teams at U13 and above as a concept makes sense. It is implementing something that everyone will buy into that is complicated. Also, in the free enterprise world we live in (and hell hath no fuy like a scorned parent), whatever model seems to be the direction, there will always be a competitive option for those not buying in, those who feel they should have belonged, or those whose parents want greater control in their child's development and success.
Do AAU basketball, Youth all star baseball teams, select hockey teams, elite dance teams all compete in the same league as the "non-elite" teams? Not usually.
If the Thunder wants to attract the best they need the buy in from all community clubs, so the Community Clubs can feel good about "one of their own" making it to the Elite level.
I think the Thunder needs to have one and only one team from u-13 and up , those teams do not play in MYSA. Can't expect a CC to support their competition.
The Thunder needs to embrace the entire Soccer population of MN not be viewed as many view Bangu today. Lets face it the MN Thunder is a business, business's try to make profits. The best profit source for them is to get Butts in the Seats of their games. Then they get all of the Goodies that go with it,ie: concessions, merchandising etc. If the prior takes place and the CC's don't feel them as a threat I like the chances of CC kids attending Thunder Camps, Thunder events etc. If the Thunder Program is viewed as a threat to the CC's the Thunder (a business) has just alienated a HUGE part of their potential market.
Some may not like to hear what I just said, It is always about the money when dealing with a "for profit " operation.
I support a program similar to the above outline, however I'm not sure the Thunder would accept a program this watered down .
The biggest obstacle long term will always be getting the buy-in from the CC's. You are asking them to give up revenue (players). There are also a lot of very talented, very qualified (and very strong willed) people running the larger CC's. You are also attempting to tell MYSA that someone else can do it better (vs. premier/ODP) and not sure how well that sits with anyone.
What I see happening is Thunder putting something in place and then over the next 2-3 years it will either snowball as it becomes a magnet or we will be exactly where we are today but the emblem on the jersey now will say Thunder instead of Bangu.
"If the Thunder wants to attract the best they need the buy in from all community clubs". I don't think so. The best will come regardless if the product/service is right.
When US Dev Academy comes a calling to Minnesota in 2010, CC's will be put to your test - supporting an elite system when the teams don't compete in MYSA, for USDA teams do not compete in state leagues. Guarantee more than our share of parent-driven CC boards and paid DOCs will STILL find a way to speak out against it and hinder player movement to that program.
MYSA will be the interesting study. By mandate from above, state associations must support the program, though current leadership has already proven themselves very suspect to supporting anything elite as they must answer to complaints from the majority.
1:13 - good analysis. I'm not sure about a USSF Academy on the girls side by 2010. As they say "follow the money". Success with the boys USSF Academy should produce a stronger MNT which translates into big dollars in sponsorships, TV dollars, stronger MSL, etc... Not sure if the same correlation can be made over on the women's side.
1:13 support that statement"MYSA leadership does not support elite programs" or retract it. I see it the other way, MYSA has been lax in doing much about what has been going on with self described elite programs. I am sure that when and if US Dev Academy comes 1:it will be supported by the clubs 2:they will not put people in charge that are not unifying for the soccer community.
A bit off topic, but I just noticed the results for the u15 MRL premier league.
EP 5w-3l-1t
Bangu Blue 3w-5l-1t
Should be a good state cup final, if it ever happens.
The US Development Academy is not going to be MN CC conglomerate, it is going to be granted to the MN Thunder Academy and SSM, people who don't support what Bangu/Thunder are going now are not going to all of a sudden support the it when they get named a US Development Academy host.
Same people=same results Spin any way you'd like it will not change the atmosphere already created here.
I hope it is SSM. They are a better program to weed out the pretenders who are attempting high level due to parental pressure. They will have the truly committed player and the facilities and resouces to do it.
Schools now cutting sports teams or raising fees. Participation dropping. This is the trend of the future and it will affect cc's,clubs and academies. The sports boom is over. It's the economy stupid.
Put Ian B or John T.( I excuse them for being english) in charge they would have absolute authourity over all soccer decisions. one team at each age from 13 up there would be broad support from day one.
So, what your saying 236, it's not about hte kids, it's about the pettiness of the adults?
It's about who is proposing the idea. Someone with more respect in the soccer community would have a stronger following.
Well said 250.
You get too hung up on people and their "soccer IQ" This proposal needs someone of unassailable integrity for it to work. These are two NOT ALL who fill the bill just two who would. Not pettiness of adults but interesting how you throw that out so quickly. As always it has to be the other person who has bad intentions? I'm saying my opinion is this would be a way to break the logjam.
257, Who cares who's the messenger, isn't it about the message.
The Thunder will have far superior facilities to SSM in about 3 years.
Until then they will have access to facilities at NSC through their new agreement.
Why would anyone oppose the Thunder being the club that is the USSF Academy for the Twin Cities?
The USSF academy teams will not play in any state or regional leagues or participate in State Cup.
There are certainly enough players in the state who want to play on the highest level team possible as evidenced by the thousands of players who try out for "elite" clubs and teams.
Why stop progress?
You guys are all hung up on this needing to be a system that everyone backs. It's not for everyone, that's MYSA's rallying cry and why they can never handle elite player development. That's what US Club is for, as is US Development Academy.
Bangu has had absolutely 0 backing from MYSA and from CCs. Yet they still help the most players reach D1 potential. The Thunder's system will be no different. It won't need CC involvement, though it was offered to a select few at the onset. It will be the pathway for players (boys mainly) to attain professional level play and the best players will come regardless of what their CC says. If CCs choose to boycott and badmouth the local pro team because of their youth initiative, a la Blackhawks and MU directors, well then, that speaks volumes as to true motives, doesn't it?
Not everyone needs to back it, that will never happen. This will be no different than what we now have. SSM looks smarter and better every day for elite players. Why don't we scrap all this and soend our money on scholarshipping top players into SSM?
Because SSM is an educational institution and not all aspiring pros want that - especially some of the top ethic players.
Oh now that's really an insightful comment, 821. Heaven forbid if we should actually EDUCATE someone.
That is easily one of the top three dumbest comments this month.
Speaking of scholarships... Congratulations to all the U17 girls who have verbally committed already from the Stars,WDB,Wings and Select. Way to go Ladies! It will be fun following your progress! Good Luck this weekend!
agree with 902 - and oh, by the way, 821 - did you mean "ethnic"? Maybe you could use the SSM education.
I can't get over the idea that for an Academy to succeed, the CC have to support it-- so that they can get the top players. Here's an eye opening statement for you.....the community clubs DON'T OWN PLAYERS. No one is in anyone else's debt to register or participate in any specific club. Get over this narrow-mindedness and maybe the sport can move forward in MN.
Players seek the appropriate levels. Parents, please keep the well-being and appropriate training levels for your child in the forefront of your decisions. Don't let guilt, a sense of debt, or anything else hinder the progress of your child. If you don't look after them, don't think anyone else will.
Whether it is Bangu, another CC club, SSM, ODP, or anything else...look after your children. No one can look after your child like you can. Do your homework and make your own decisions.....
10:07,
RTR agrees with you (from the site, about the Wayzata U14P team): "I do, however, envision a few of their players migrating toward this group (his team) next year."
HEY MA:
This is why MYSA and virtually all local clubs want nothing to do with an MA-tainted Thungu. As always, thanks for the reminder.
SSM Philosopher: No need to start the possessions argument again. If they go to bangu they are (expensive) possessions, too, until a better player comes along and then they are dumped (oops, that seems even more like a possession, and I'm not sure CC's ever do that?!). With all of the tawdry stories about life at SSM I am not sure you want to get into a customer satisfaction debate in here (a sense of "debt" will be useful for your players, though).
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