With all the nonsense in the previous posting, its time to let the kids play. Looks like MN weather will keep the games from starting for a few more days. Hopefully the fields will hold up. Good luck to everyone in the tournament!
Schedule and results here: http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/events/statecup.cfm#sched
1,034 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 1034 Newer› Newest»I think the SSM U18 Boys will struggle at Regions.
Take a look at their MRL record. They are not in Premier division in MRL and still lost 2 of their games.
If they don't win Minnesota State Cup the coaching staff should be fired as there aren't any Bangu or Wings teams at that age this year.
But given the hiccups they've had in MRL they will be hard pressed to win the Region 2 Championship.
They're lucky the Magic and some of the other top clubs are in USSF Academy and not eligible for State Cup or Regional play.
SSM is a good microcosm of the differences and they are real not perceived. The girls program there is struggling compared to the boys program and has enormous turnover. There is a difference in the genders.
Why hasn't SSM joined the USSF academy. That would seem a better fit for them than playing in USYSA state cup>
There isn't as big a reason for the girls to go to SSM.
The top girls in most states get D1 scholarships already unlike the boys who struggle to find soccer scholarships since Title 9 became law.
Why shell out $35K for tuition when your daughter can go to Lakeville or Apple Valley HS and still get D1 offers from several schools. Clubs like Bangu and St Croix see their top girls teams all get offered scholarships anyway.
Rumor has it that both Bangu and SSM will be admitted to USSF Academy at the same time next year or the year after.
USSF wants 2 clubs in Minnesota so that teams spending time and money getting here will be guaranteed 2 matches.
SSM and Bangu are the obvious choices for USSF when the time comes.
That much is true, I think the earlier comment about "pursuing their dreams" often has as much to do wih the parents dream as the childs. Thus the turnover. SSM is a worthwhile destination strictly in terms of soccer if you are from an area that has no major soccer clubs. If you can play soccer for Eclipse, FC Milwaukee, Hawks, Bangu etc on the top team you will get plenty of recruiting exposure without having to leave home.
According to the MYSA weather line the games for tonight are still on for now.
The fields will be messy. Officials were already pulling some turf off of Field #1 on Tuesday night, in front of the goalie area nearest the parking lot.
they are real and not percieved... just look at the difference in turnover rates in their boys program vs their girls.
1:50 - then how do you explain the difference between how many girls leave SSM after a short time vs boys??? Certainly their parents overcame those sociological issues you talk about?
The kids weren't happy. There's no "percieved" about it. where there is smoke there is fire.
UPDATE: Tonight's games now cancelled.
tick...tick...tick
How does anyone figure that the SSM contingent on this blog has been silent? I distinctly remember atleast one poster (#10's dad) posting a very classy post regarding the game, and congratulating BBlue on the win. So, please give it a rest. I won't even get into the other very ignorant comments about the program.
Bottom line is this-- SSM was not the better team on the night, and did not win the game. Period. BBlue DESERVED the win on the night. IF YOU CAN'T SCORE....YOU CAN'T WIN.
So, please stop trying to "bait" SSM parents into some excuse based, hate filled rant on why SSM lost the game.
My final comment is this....good luck and Godspeed to the cannon fodder which will be attending the Region 2 Championships as MN U18 State Cup Runner-up.
BOOM!!
Anon 2:24-- you are very perceptive. Yees, where there is smoke, there IS fire. The girls who are not happy leave.....that is a fact.
I have said it before, and will say it again....SSM and similar programs are NOT for everyone. It takes a special individual with specific character traits to participate in the SSM-like programs. How many kids switch community clubs, or leave for Bangu at some point in their "career"? Does this then mean that the community club system is broken? NO. It does mean that there are a lot of choices out there, and people change thier minds for various reasons. Seems funny that everyone makes the assumption that all the girls who leave/don't return are leaving on thier own volition. Some are not asked back....but those particular details are not/should not be discussed. It is quite frankly none of ANYONE'S business but the individual and program involved.
Face it, the program is here and will stay. They are competing in State Cup at selected age groups now....but common sense says that other age groups will follow at some point in the future. Get over it. I don't think that anyone who attended Wednesday nights game would say that the game was not a positive step in the competition level and thus a positive for the State as a whole. Compete against better quality teams and you will get better yourself.
The idea that the bloggers here do not have the IQ or expertice to handle this question is right on.
The first rule of social sciences is that anecdotal evidence is worthless (ie. turnover rate at one program in one school).
If you want to have your thoughts be met with some smattering of respect, look at turnover rates at boarding schools across the nation, look at the rates of the turnover for both genders of the hockey program, look at rates of turnover of new programs in their first years - if you can rule out all other factors other than gender, you may begin making a rational arguement.
Only simpletons take the first easy explanation (they are girls!!!) and fail to think critically beyond that point.
The second rule of the social sciences is large data pools. Evidence like "I have one of each, so I should know", are scorned by anyone with even the slightest bit of training.
You people are in over your heads here. It is fun to bash others, but too often it is yourselves that you are exposing.
Remember that this is Minnesota and soccer is controlled by old knuckle dragging males.They are still living in a 1970 time warp.
You won't see significant improvement in Minnesota soccer til the next generation takes over and female coaches coach on the girls side.Most of todays male coaches have too much psychological baggage to interact successfully with the opposite sex.
ssmsc you said "Seems funny that everyone makes the assumption that all the girls who leave/don't return are leaving on thier own volition. Some are not asked back....but those particular details are not/should not be discussed. It is quite frankly none of ANYONE'S business but the individual and program involved."
Please follow your own advice and don't bring it up again. You have succeeded in casting aspersions on every child who left the program. Turnover is unacceptably high and needs to be corrected.
3:05 there are few comments I have read on this topic which do not have at least a grain of truth to them. Certainly they are not the whole story. Drop the pomposity.
3:05 - well put from a social science perspective, but real life is not found in textbooks, data, and control groups. There is a reason why the terms "perception is reality" and "where there is smoke there is fire" exist in our lexicon and have not disappeared.
I doubt most folks (myself included) are looking for a big time debate or have any interest in knocking SSM, IMG or any other boarding school. Just espousing opinions.
Instead of everyone else being in over their heads, maybe you need to come down off you high horse.
3:33 odd then that 8 of the top 10 college womens teams in the nation last year are coached by men. They seem to interact just fine. Continue with the sexist rants though, very entertaining.
Anon 3:35--
as·per·sion
n.
An unfavorable or damaging remark; slander: Don't cast aspersions on my honesty.
The act of defaming or slandering.
A sprinkling, especially with holy water.
I do not believe that my comment gave any reasonable reason for anyone to assume that every child who has left the program was not asked back. My statement was to point out that there are many reasons people leave the program, and not all of them are that the PLAYER decided to leave. The assumption that everyone leaves because the program is flawed is incorrect and I am tired of everyone casting "aspersion" on the program. Just pointing out the facts.
It is unfair to villify SSM for the turn-over rate. Many factors feed into this "statistic".
Sheesh, let's talk about the u-13's for a while
quiet about what?...were you at the game?...I doubt it..your comments are very typical of a small minority...
I am not sure what the "quiet" comment is all about...typical anonhole....the girls side is what it is..were you at the game?...if so, please tell me....and where did you get the notion that ssm has there pick of the litter?..I don't recall any Bangu or SSM folks bantering about how good or bad each program was.....unless your intent is to gloat and ruin what many hear considered to be a good match.....
anon 4:23..you are correct..we should talk of the other age groups..
so all those kids that left IN THE MIDDLE OF THIS YEAR were not "asked back"? In the middle of the year? Maybe they should have been asked back. SSM clearly had zero bench, or were terrified to use it, and they got tired.
I still think the analogy holds its ground... U.S. soccer has determined it is productive to have residency for boys, counterproductive to have residency for girls (outside the Olympic and senior teams) - frankly I'd take the soccer minds in U.S. Soccer over the soccer minds on this blog any day, but hey, thats just me.
anon 4:49..why don't you let it go?..your ignorance is showing...this is US soccer..stellar record and all....at least have the courage to take a moniker.
4:42-- please read the posts prior to jumping to conclusions. My prior post was not referring to any group of girls, or making excuses for the game Wednesday night. It was a general statement regarding the "high turnover rate" in the program.
I have not said this yet, so I would like to give kudos to not only the BBlue team on the win, but also to thieir parents/fans who were at the game. Great atmosphere, good sportsmanship, and great soccer.
By the way, if anyone will be at Coon Rapids for SC games this weekend and would like to say hello, send me an email at pm3angels@mchsi.com and we'll work it out. How's that for hiding behind a "fake name"? Take THAT anons....
My dd attends Shattuck, she will be a Sr this coming year, has been there since the middle of her Freshman yr. She is VERY happy with the school and soccer.
If I may share this with some about girls and leaving home, and the others can rip it apart all they want.(I know Im putting myself up for failure for posting this on this site).
While my dd was at a Natl camp about a year ago, they asked the girls in a group and each had to fill out questions, they were asked if they would be interested in coming together as a team like the boys Natl team and prep for the U17G world cup. Go to school and live in Cali away from home for 1 year. Out of 18 girls, about 5 wanted to do so and the rest said there would be no way they would leave home. We'r talking Natl teamers for U15/16. Do I have the answers for that?? Nope.
Do I have answers on why some girls wanted to leave Shattuck, NOPE! Whos worry is it anyway??
My dd wanted to attend Shattuck, we contacted them. And we havent looked back since. We are very happy with her growth as a player, and her soon to be college coaches are very excited that she is where she is at. As SSMSC has said, its NOT for everyone. Im not going to judge others for there decisions to leave, not attend Shattuck, players playing for Bangu, Eclipse, any MN CC. Its not our intent to judge. For each there own.
Its true, Shattuck didnt score, end of story. Did they play pretty soccer, sure, but that doesnt win games. They will have there share of heartbreaking tear dropping loss's,(just like any other team/club) However they will still show up the next day and train.
So for those that want to drag the program in the mud, have a go at it if it makes you feel better. Iv been reading the same stuff for the last few years. So really nothing really has surprised me.
The bottom line is, Shattuck would of been blasted no matter the outcome. If they would of won, then people would of been crying that they are recruited blah blah blah, train year round blah blah blah..If they lost, like they did, then the parents should be up in arms, paying 35k blah blah blah. Its all good thou.
#10s Dad. And for those that were at the game, I was the one wearing the UCLA hat!!
Absolutely amazing. Some people live for their kids, some people live through them. Sadly some don't care. It really does take all kinds.
ODP for tomorrow is postponed at least for some age groups (94/95). Oh no, now we are talking U13s again. Sorry.
That is OK. I think we are seeing that it is not only the U13 parents that love to talk about their kids.
It is raining very hard in Coon Rapids. Fields are unlikely to be playable tomorrow.
Any word on the Blaine Breakout tomorrow? Games still on?
and like everything else follow the money trail..
and like everything follow the money trail..... and ponder
With the sun out early and decent winds this morning, I'll bet the games will be played today.
One more review of the SSM v Bangu U18 girls match.
Both teams played well and had fine technical skills. Maybe a slight edge to SSM.
Bangu was faster and fitter.
Bangu was the better team that day.
Bangu's coach also had an answer for every adjustment SSM made.
I'd have to say the Bangu coach outcoached his SSM counterpart.
SSM was much more technically proficient than Bangu and outplayed them in the midfield by a significant margin. Bangu had much more speed and used it to counterattack or play boot and scoot depending on your perspective. Bangu's back line were the stars of the game as they limited Shattucks chances despite the numerous dangerous attacks generated by the SSM midfield.
Blaine Break Out? Are you serious?
Im a Shattuck supporter, and I wouldnt call Bangu playing boot n scoot. They played a nice counter game. Heck, when your playing 6 back your mid is going to lack anyway.
Anon 9:31 All levels of soccer are important. Today's C1 and C2 players with hard work and physical maturity are the Premier players of tomorrow.
Are you serious?
Wow,if thats not the arrogant parent of a higher level player,sickening.This blog is for all I hope!
Yes, but this thread is a state cup thread. I think that's what 9:31 is talking about.
So that means someone can't ask about another event in Blaine? Read this thread from beginning to end and see how many comments are just about State Cup. The comment was from someone who stands around the water cooler at work to talk about their "Premier Player" and not just trying to keep things on topic.
All levels of soccer are important to growing the sport.
U15
Bangu White 0 EP 0
Coon Rapids 1 St Croix 0
Wayzata 1 Eastside 0
Bangu Blue 5 Woodbury 1
I can't wait until this blog is shut down. It is all about my daughter is better than your daughter, my team is better than your team, my club is better than your club, and it has nothing to do with soccer. Listen to your selves. You all sound like a bunch of 8 year olds.
U13
Woodbury 2 Burnsville 1
Tonka 5 St. Croix 0
Bangu Blue 4 Bangu South 0
Edina 1 Prior Lake 0
Minneapolis United 1 Wayzata 0
Wings 2 Kelix 0
Bangu East 2 Maplebrook 0
Blackhawks 1 PSA 1
"A" group could be interesting but it looks like PSA, Bangu Blue, Wings and Bangu East are in the best positions to advance.
Did anyone see the MPLs United vs Wayzata game (u-13) ? I would like some "play by Play" I would have bet heavily on Wayzata having seen them recently.
Congratulations to MPLS UNITED.
Sorry to start more U-13 talk, SSM and Bangu fans.
Mpls United / Wayzata game was a very evenly matched game. Mpls United scored in last minutes of the game.
What happened to EP u-15 girls today against Bangu? 0-0! did anyone watch the game?
Bangu played them tough. Don't forget that's the same team that beat them in last year's semi-finals. Is EP the better team? Probably, but the score isn't necessarily a shocker.
Mild upset Maple Brook loses to Bangu east (U-12 I think) Anyone see this one ?
Also Surprised Blackhawks could hang with PSA. Sorry that sounds bad I know Blackhawks is a good team, just thought PSA was a serious contender ? anyone see this one.
Yes It was the U12 East team.
Watched parts of Wdb vs. Bville 13s. Bville had the run of play and looked very good but finishing was lacking. Wdb scored a weak goal early in each half (only chances I saw for them) but did not do much else but hang in, which they did well. St. Croix no match for Tonka (which looks like the most convincing team in this group). PSA did not look as good as they did in their first game. Bangu Blue looked very good again.
My prediction for U13 final is Bangu U13 vs. Bangu U12 East: Final Score 3-2 in a shootout!!
This should be an interesting day for the 14s. The games between Bangu Blue/NSSA and Bangu White/Bangu Green will decide who advances.
My guess is Blue and White will advance. If that happens, both Dakota Rev and Wayzata could guarantee advancing with a win. One would win the group and the other would have enough points to qualify for the wild card.
Finally the U16 and U17 groups will begin playing. Both ages have one nationally competitive team that is head and shoulders above the rest, but there are teams that with a break or two and some good goaltending could spring an upset. SCV and PSA at 16 could challenge Inferno and Wings and Woodbury at 17 could challenge Bangu.
The day when Iran or Iraq will produce a womens team then we know the world is catching up. The US mens team cannot beat small countries in Africa that says it all. So when the rest of the world start thinking women can play soccer then we can say the world if improving. Let's not forget that even in the US, the male dominance still previals. The talent of Mia and Akers did not keep womens league thriving. A weak MLS is still the only pro team. So what happened to the talented women teams in the US that paying fans wants to go watch? WNBA is struggling to survive despite the true talent how much less womens soccer? We should have a womens indoor league and see how it does - can male fans pay to watch women?..hmmm
Thanks for your sexist tirade.
I wonder if 10:43 is a "hunter" or a "gatherer"?
I watched the Burnsville and Woodbury game and think Woodbury is happy to get the W on two very soft goals. Burnsville field players had the upper hand. Woodbury's goaltender was better.
U15 Results
Bangu Blue 3 Wayzata 0
Woodbury 2 Eastside 0
Coon Rapids 2 Bangu White 0
Eden Prairie 4 St. Croix 0
The Semi finals are set
Bangu Blue vs. Coon Rapids
Eden Prairie vs. Wayzata
U17 results
Bangu (Stars) 12 Tonka 0
Woodbury 1 Eagan 0
White Bear 3 Wings 0
Blackhawks 1 Maplebrook 1
Bangu White 1 Cottage Grove 0
Eden Prairie 2 Kickers 2
Not a surprise that WBL could defeat Wings, but 3-0? Is that score right or reversed?
that score is correct (accoeding to MYSA Web site).
That score is correct. WBL has an outstanding forward who is only in 8th grade and Wings had no answer for her. Congrats to WBL on the big upset!
It's true. WBL has a great forward. But she did not act alone. That was a solid 3-0 win. Wings coach should be asking himself a few questions tonight.
No outrage over Bangu's 12-0 thumping of their obviously weaker opponent? I recall a lot of finger waggin during high school seasons over such lopsided scores.
I'm not completely up on U17 girls, but is this the same WBL team that won one premier league game last year and was relegated? If so, how could it not be an upset that they beat the Wings team (unless there are lots of injuries, missing players, etc....) that won the premier league last year?
Anon 8:03
HS you have to play your schedule.Club you don't have to play in state. There is a little difference.
Suggest you drink a glass of milk and hit the sack. That's the best cure for a bad case of the "whines".
U14 results...
Bangu Blue 2 - NSSA 0
Eden Prairie 1 - Eagan 1
Bangu White 1 - Bangu Blue 0
St. Croix 3 - Blaine 0
Wayzata 3 - Wings 0
Northern Lights 1 - Dakota Rev 0
Bangu Blue and White advance and Wayzata is guaranteed at least a wild card.
have not looked at rules but what if rev and nls win Wazatta still in for sure?
I don't think it's a guarantee for Wayzata. Here's the way I see it...
If there is a three way tie, it will go to goal differential, then fewest goals allowed, so a lot depends on how the games end up and the final scores.
Wayzata needs a win, a tie or a NLS loss to advance for sure. They may still advance if there is a 3 way tie because they're plus 4 with no goals against. NLS is even in GD so it would be difficult for them to close the gap, but anything can happen.
The Rev are plus one with 1 goal against. They are playing Wayzata so they can make up the difference with a 2 goal win.
I do agree that Bangu could and should have found a way to keep it under 10. The difference between this and the HS game you refer to however is that Bangu had to play Tonka, a certain AA Lake conference team did not have to schedule Pine Island.
U17 results:
No surprise here:
Stars 12 Tonka 0
Woodbury 1 Eagan 0 (Thought WDB would have been more dominant)
BHK 1 MPB 1 (Didn't see any of this game)
WBL 3 Wings 0 !!!! This was quite the upset. I mentioned earlier that this was a team facing some struggles. Strong individual effort by young player who I think scored all three goals.
Bangu Select 1 CTG 0 BNG team struggling with injuries but found a way to win. Smart move to pick up new GK for State Cup. Strong defense held back CTG attacks.
EDP 2 KIK 2 Mini upset in a way. Thought EDP would roll even with all the changes. Good effort from Kickers to not give up and tie at the end.
Also congrats to all U17 who recently committed!
So did the gubirds throw a game to get both teams in group b into the semis (blue 0, white 1)?
Shocking behavior from the state's ethical shining lights.
That might be a typo as I believe they meant green, not blue. The top blue team had already qualified. A couple of suggestions.......try and dig harder for your dirt or get a life.
Yes it was Bangu White 1 - Bangu Green 0.
A simple typo I suspect.
So nothing to get upset about.
ANON 10:47....somebody went trolling and you took the bait.They didn't even wait for the opener. LMAO
Appears to me 11:03 took the bait not 10:47. But the attack of the Goobers is always fun!
My daughter does not play for Bangu, but whether it is a soccer club, family, business, etc.... what joy is found in attacking something based on wrong information? Most folks would apologize and admit their mistake instead of relishing in it.
304, Well said!!!
agree anon 304 however, everyone is an anon so it is easy to say something without being held accountable to a certain moniker or tag - has always been the case on here.
Agree with the above posters and think it is not good for the discussion, that said I want to see them at tournaments at games etc. and be just as disgusted and confrontational when someone is denigrating other clubs in pursuit of another player. Recruiting- o.k. talking poorly of the other clubs begets the counter attacks Let's diligently clean our own house first, beginning with the biggest kids on the block then worry about the rest.
I watched the u17 stars vs tonka game. The stars best player did not play a minute. 5-0 15 minutes in.
The coach took out #12 who was the most dangerous player. Not sure what you do when the game is like that??
Wow, the parents of the 13s are suddenly so quiet. My guess is, a lot of them have has an eye-opening experience at state cup.
...or "had" sorry about the typo...
what is the quality of refs at the games so far? What I see so far, the refs letting the player get away with shoving and pushing too much. Thus the game is more like HS soccer and is no longer a beautiful game with skills.
The refs aren't bad. As far as pushing and shoving, this is a physical game. A player with skills should be able to play even if they're banged around a bit.
Agree, it is a physical game and the higher level you go to the more physical it is.
I think Minnesota teams (in general) are a lot less physical than teams from other states. Maybe it's that Minnesota nice thing, but if you go out of town (out west especially - we used to live in Arizona) you'll see some very physical soccer.
This isn't basketball where you can get a foul for touching someone.
Actually with some refs you can!!
Anon 8:01. I disagree. I think it's the "style" of physicality that's the difference. MN players seem to like to bash ,take cheap shots, and simply run into or down players. Maybe, being from the west, you are used to a more evolved level of physical play!!!
LOL Now that is funny.
The problem is not physical play, it's the inconsistent calls by the refs. I marvel at the wide range of calls or non calls in a game. I'm not saying my kid's team gets jobbed, the kids of both teams do when there is little rhyme nor reason to calls.
You guys want the quality of reffing to improve? Then we need more people who grew up playing the game at a higher level in the officiating ranks. How do we get to this? We all shut up and stop yelling at the younger refs who come out to ref at the younger age groups.
I've had talented players who know the game go into reffing, only to not want anything more to do with it after one season based on the verbal abuse they suffered from parents and coaches. We scare away our best prospects year after year, then are left with the rest.
AMEN... its the IDIOT PARENTS (like the ones in here) that are the reason the referees are so bad. If I'm a 15 year old kid I'd rather do anything besides have some moron screaming at me.
And stop yelling "GOOD CALL REF" when the call goes in your team's favor, regardless if it is a good call or not, and only when it is in favor of your team. This has become so annoying lately. They act like they are yelling something positive but I actually think it works against some teams to have their sidelines yelling this.
I assume you are not referring to me ( I'm 9:43) I do not, have not, will not yell at refs regardless of their age or level of competence. You above also make a fairly common moronic assumptive leap that everyone good at playing the game will automatically make a superior ref. We often can substitute coach for ref with that same stupid leap of non logic. Not all good players make good refs or coaches and not all less good players will make bad refs or coaches. But it is good to see all the attack people are still here on this blog Bring back the 13 parents.
The problem is that the calls are quite arbitrary and referees let thing go and go until players get frustrated and retaliate (with good reason). If games were called consistently and tightly it would be much better. Everyone acts outraged and shocked when a player has been getting beaten up for 20 minutes with no call and then they lay the other player out. What do they think is going to happen? A foul is a foul. It should be called the same no matter what. If not, we will have the same discussion forever.
"Consistent" and "tightly" means that as a spectator/coach/whatever at Susie's U13 State Cup match, you want the ref to toot their whistle every 25 seconds when anyone gets touched? There would be no game at all and then we would be getting yapped at about that.
As one person noted earlier, this is a contact sport. Anon11:45, your comment that "a foul is a foul" really means in Minnesota-speak that when it is YOUR kid on the receiving end it's a foul. If your kid is the one getting called for it, you are the same one yelling that "they're going for the ball."
Any work on rescheduling the 16s that were rained out on Friday?
They have to be running out of options with midwest league and MYSA league play beginning.
Well said 12:08.
The 16's have been rescheduled to Friday, May 16.
South Fan
Who isn't for consistent reffing? The bigger question is defining consistent reffing and who is doing the defining. In many cases I suspect that if little U13 Susie is touched she is fouled, but if she or one of her teammates plays tough, physical defense that's good, smart, well-played soccer. How many times have all of us sat on the sidelines to hear the screams from the parents when one of the "home" teams players is fouled, and then 30 seconds later complain about a bad call when the "home" team commits an identical foul on an opposing player?
Looks like rain and storms expected again tonight. Not sure if there are any state cup games but there are league games that might be affected. It has been a not so nice spring weather-wise for outdoor activities.
To 12:08. I don't have a 13 year old daughter named Susie. Your assessment is incorrect. I see it in youth games, high school games alot, and a fair amount in collegiate games. I think as a sport it is generally poorly officiated compared to others. No, they wouldn't have to toot the whistle for long except at the beginning of the game. The players would figure it out quickly and the soccer game would be played.
Let's try not to let the stupidity in society prevent a discussion of what we seem to agree upon which is reffing is inconsistent at best. Parents on the sideline should no more dictate the actions of the officials than they should coaches. Who has a constructive idea or if e can't aim that high let's not just make snide remarks (like that one).
LOL - spot on 1208. !!!!!!
anon 1145 - that is the beauty of this game. Calls are to be interpreted and can be arbitrary based on many factors but mainly on how the referee interprets the situation which is ever changing and never constant.
The best players can be fouled two or three times before making a beautiful pass or shot. That is why there is the advantage rule and it's a great thing if applied properly. It keeps the game more free-flowing.
IF a referee is in the right position to make a call it really is there final decision. If they could do a better job from where the parents sat they would be there.
and while we are on the parents - by the time you shout pass or shoot to your kids, it's usually too late. They can't process the instructions soon enough, and maybe saw a different option. Nothing better than a group of parents shouting SHOOT! SHOOT! SHOOT!
Yeah that helps so much ;-)
I see this a bit differently. At u-9, 10 especially things are way out of control (my kid is 17 and a ref so don't write back stupid remarks) We put our youngest inexperienced refs there and often we see things let go that should not be, I am not advocating tooting the whistle constantly either. We need to make the conditions better for the youngest to learn skills under pressure without the, let's be honest, biggest kid on the field knocking others down running and scoring while the parents cheer for something that looks like soccer.
I agree, it is very bad at those young ages. For some reason we assume they are too young to know what a foul is (hearing "let them play the game") . Again, call it and they will learn quickly. I've seen it happen.
Good refereeing is a product of good management. Too many refs, such as the one at a u15 boys game who said certain shinguards were illegal, try to impact the game instead of manage it. There are certain things that need to be taken care of and a good referee sets a specific, consistent message to the kids that does not detract from the game.
Good refereeing is a product of good management. Too many refs, such as the one at a u15 boys game who said certain shinguards were illegal, try to impact the game instead of manage it. There are certain things that need to be taken care of and a good referee sets a specific, consistent message to the kids that does not detract from the game.
after a brief commerical break, back to u13 girls -
Bangu u14p will win their last game and bracket
Woodbury will win their bracket when they beat SCV and Tonka will lose/tie
Wings will win their bracket
banguEast u12 will upset blackhawks and win
semi
banguu14 will beat wings
woodbury will beat banguu12
final
bangu u14 will beat woodbury
and no, I am not a bangu parent but this is how it will play out in my opinion
IMHO ref's in general call way to much. You typically hear the whistle blown every time someone hits the ground whether or not they were even touched by an opposing player. There is a reason we have a harder time playing against out of town teams. It is because the kids get called for everything at the younger ages and are taught that they should avoid contact or else they will get called for a foul. They then travel out of State and get a rude awakening. None of this will change until the refs and parents start watching high level soccer and find out what soccer is really about and how it was meant to be played. I am not saying all refs just most. 99% of the parents however don't have a clue especially when their kid is on the receiving end of a hard tackle or a shoulder challenge. If you are a parent of a soccer player and understand the difference please help educate the parents who complain when actually it was just a hard tackle, shoulder challenge, or shield.
I'd settle for refs who appear to care about calling fouls that could result in real injury. Instead they seem to be overly concerned with color of underarmour, shinguard size, bad language or jersey “tugs”. Refs have actually told us they wont call a foul against player B ,who just viciously knocked player A to the ground, if player A's team regains possession of the ball after the initial assault. I don’t get it? So it’s only a “foul” if your team looses possession? Now that’s just stupid thinking IMHO.
I agree with 1:37 and I'm not a Bangu parent either but watched a lot of the other U13 teams play. The ideal semi-finals of the top 4 teams would have BNGBlue, Tonka, Burnsville and Woodbury playing. Instead, 3 of those 4 teams ended up in one bracket and BNGBlue (assuming they win) doesn't play anyone from Bracket A until the final game. Those three teams would have given them the most challenge other than what they had in Bracket B.
Thank you Woodbury parents.
Boy this is fun!! U13 and U14 predictions. I'm not sure why it is so much fun, maybe because it drives some people nuts!! Here we go. My predictions are based on watching parts of each team playing during State Cup.
Semi Finals
Wings
Bangu U13
Woodbury
Bangu U12
Bangu U13 will beat Wings 3-0
Bangu U12 will beat Woodbury 2-0
Final Bangu vs Bangu (The U13's should win) Either way it will be an interesting game.
U14 Bangu Blue (Boy this one was easy.
I haven't watched other age groups so I won't predict.
203, I disagree with your assesment of the 4 top teams.
In no particular order:
Wings, Bangu U13, Bangu U12, Woodbury (I do think Burnsville was the better team but they lost so I give the Nod to Woodbury)
Burnsville is bubble in my opinion to be considered amongst the best four regardless of brackets.
I like Tonka, Bangu14p and the Bangu 12's in bracket B, and PSA (if they could crack the seal on the goal). I know you need to score to win, but surprised that this team isn't having more success.
I do like Burnsville and earlier picked them as my "sleeper " pick. Still not sure they have earned top four status yet.
Burnsviller's prove me wrong.
anon 155, I think they are referring to advantage. If the team fouled has the ball and has the advantage (maybe a 3 on 2 going to goal or a chance to score) they don't want to stop play and give the team that fouled a chance to regroup and negate the advantage the team that was fouled had. You would be rewarding that team by taking away the other teams chance to score. That's how I take it.
anon 155 - no that is ignorant soccer thinking on your part. Maradona, Best, Pele, Cruyff and many good amateur players would be upset if you took an attacking advantage or scoring opportunity away from them because a "foul is a foul"
If the foul is severe enough to warrant a card, the referee has the ability to call out - advantage! let the play continue until the opportunity is gone or the ball goes out of play (depending on the severity) and go back to where the foul occurred and still hand out a verbal warning or the appropriate card depending on the foul he called advantage on.
I think it is a great system if more knew how to manage it properly.
or if more parents understood the laws and the common sense referees are allowed to apply - if they don't take themselves too seriously.
Bravo tomass!
One of my biggest pet peeves is the ref taking away advantage.
It sounds to me, like many parents of younger players do not understand the game. Many may be experiencing physical soccer for the first time watching their U13 superstar not having free reign to the danger zone.
Many parents may be much more familiar with basketball where fouls are almost always immediate and "hard" fouls are common as a player drives the lane.
Hey folks, Not all on here are morons, I do not see nor hear anyone not understanding advantage or them suggesting refs ignore it so stop with the poor attempt at Socratic dialog on advantage. The issue is inconsistent calls and I agree often things are let go until tempers flare. Here is another pet peeve regarding advantage ... handballs I agree do not call it in situations where a player is protecting themself, But if they gain from it must be called and too often it is not.
4:02 I'm a parent, what is basketball?
Thank you, I certainly understand the concept of advantage in calling fouls. noone on here is questioning that at all.
Hey 2:46, you can't have all the fun...
U13 predictions...
Bangu Blue over Wings
Tonka over Bangu East
Bangu Blue over Tonka
U14 predictions
Bangu Blue over Dakota Rev
Wayzata over Bangu White
Bangu Blue over Wayzata
Sorry, I couldn't resist :)
anon 421 - so define the inconsistent calls you refer to; within the same game? or between two different games?
And your handball description leads me to believe you real do not understand the infraction.
The rule states it is an offense if a player handles the ball DELIBERATELY. Urule gave a fairly accurate description in the recent MYSA newsletter about this. The rule or call says nothing about if the ball provides the player or a team an advantage.
The referee must decide the player's intent in the handling the ball - some common sense general application: did the hand/arm seek the ball or did the ball seek that portion of the body. Of course their are other considerations but that is the general one.
Both within a game and particularly from ref to ref.
They are laws...not rules...
The 'gain advantage' language referring to handballs was dropped a number of years ago. Tomass is correct, read the laws of the game before you try to call hand balls.
With that said, referring in MN is in a very poor state. Even in a worse state than MYSA.
Those instructing, training and mentoring the refs in MN are in over their heads. They are too wrapped up in the 'controlling' the game. And respect for the ref. If you give it, you get it.
They promote refs who kiss up and act like hard asses on the field. The encourage demand for respect over protecting players and consistent calls. They teach refs cleaver quips to refute questions from players and coaches. They reward refs who stop play to chew out a player for questioning their call. Ridiculous!
It is ironic that the refs who run and control MNRSA are some of the worst refs in the state.
MN needs to institute a ref grading system. Coaches and managers should grade referees and ARs after every game. Store the data and toss out the high and low outliers. There also needs to be a referee incident review board. When a referee does something inappropriate (e.g. swearing at players), or has negative tendancies (a lot of red cards for dissent or a pattern of more cards for visiting teams), they be sanctioned, then mentored to correct their bad habits.
Anyone interested in a play by play of the Bangu 13 vs. Eden Prairie league game? It's raining and I don't feel like getting out of the car.
I didn't think so...lol.
Here: ball is in the air defense player hand balls it to protect themself from being hit. changes direction of ball ref says "no call" please advise all who know more. I see this often
Why don't we just burn referees at the stake while we are at it? Or shall we just do an inquisition? Or both?
Coaches and managers are in as much of a position to grade a referee as I am to perform brain surgery. Are there bad referees? You bet. Are there bad coaches? You bet. Are there imbecile parents out there? You bet.
8:53 here is a good example. If the kid is protecting himself or herself and is not gaining an advantage from it, no call is warranted.
Lets just ban the whole sport while we are at it, eh?
anon 638 I agree with much of your post and l conceptually like some of the ideas.
Because I can and like to be argumentative at times, I will do so here.
The law is Fouls and Misconduct- the description of the event is the guideline, requirement, rule or what ever you want to call it as one of the sub-categories that establishes the penalization.
anon 913 - would you consider waterboarding as a method ?? ;-)
ball changing direction implies advantage even to a third grafer so what is the proper call?
anon 957
advantage should not be the basis in the determination of handball. Was it deliberate or was it unintentional? That is the basis for the referee to determine if it was a handball.
A ball can change direction unintentionally and give a player the advantage of play. What if that player is not even looking at the flight of the ball but is tracking back to cover the opposition. The ball is crossed and it hits his arm while he is running and looking the opposite direction, it drops to his feet for advantage of play. He did not handle the ball deliberately, he had no knowledge of the flight of the ball. According to the principles of Law 12 he is not guilty of a hand ball even if the referee is a third grader.
Law 12 Fouls & Misconduct.
9:57, if the ball is headed for a players face at full speed and he/she raises his or her hands/arms to protect the face, I am NOT going to call a handball! You can scream at me all night long after that, but I am NOT going to punish a kid for protecting himself or herself.
I do not care what direction the ball goes.
Question: Have you ever seen an EPL referee (or other professional referee) call a handball on a male player whose hands were protecting his groin area during a set play and the free kick went off him?
I haven't.
When I officiate girls games, its the same deal with the chest area. If they cross their arms in an obvious attempt to protect themselves, I am not going to call that as a handball.
If the player is making a conscious decision to handle the ball in an effort to gain an advantage, I will call that every single time.
Bangu U13 lost in premier league to Eden Prairie 5-0. I don't think anyone needs a play by play of that game to guess what happened.
Oh, I almost forgot...
9:57, if that is YOUR kid raising her arms/hands to protect herself, it is not a handball from your vantage point. If it's an opponent's kid, it's a handball.
This is an example of where a lot of people perceive a lack of consistency on the part of the referee. This is also (unfortunately) a situation where a lot of young referees get thoroughly abused by coaches and parents.
i am sure that was an eye opener for the 13's!
With League play underway perhaps it is appropriate to ask for a boys and girls thread on this blog so this thread can stay focused on the State Cup.
6:39, let me guess, the refs blew the game.
anon803 - DUDE, the blog is going away. Asking for any new thread is really asking a lot.
Anyway it has always been chaotic with many of us not being able to stay on topic.
I know it's going away, Just thought i'd ask. We did get the state cup threads added after the announcement of the blog being discontinued. Didn't meen to seem unappreciative, just always seems to flow better if continuity of subject matter can be followed.
Regarding the U13 picks:
I have watched all of these teams (couldn't resist with all of the crazy banter in here).
Bangu Blue is the best team, if for no other reason than they have played a bunch of games and trained a great deal and they look sharper. They seem to be able to score goals (against U13 teams anyway), and their defense looks to be solid.
The Bangu 12's also look very good, particularly for their speed and willingness to battle. I watched them play PSA, and they ran a good team ragged by the end of the game. PSA knocks the ball around well, and their athleticism is impressive, but they really look uncomfortable going forward.
Wings is solid and will advance, but I don't think they have the depth to win it this year.
I watched Woodbury vs. Burnsville, and the former did not look very good. They were thoroughly outplayed (and received two gift goals) and basically resorted to the occasional counter to attack. If they get through, they will be the weakest of the semi-final teams. Burnsville looked very good, but could not finish and will have to get better goalkeeping. I agree that they are among the top handful of teams.
Tonka, in my opinion, should be the team to represent group A if there is any justice. They had an inconsistent game against Woodbury, but they have terrific goalkeeping and they are a tough, hard-working team.
Bangu vs. Tonka final would be an interesting game with the edge to Bangu.
Other than the Bangu 14p getting beat, does anyone have any thoughts,or comments on the early league games of the State Cup teams ?
Any early surprises?
9:09 have you heard scores or analysis on the teams you mentioned. I see Bangu south U-12's held Burnsville to only one goal. Burnsville won 1-0.
I predict at regions the MN U13 rep will go 0-3-0 with 1 GF and 10 GA. I also predict this will spark some consolidation in this age group next year.
The consolidation of the U13 girls would probably be some other club than Bangu. They blew it this year in how they handled this age group and prospects for tryouts for next year, where would they come from?
Go Refs!! Your doing a great job. Just dont expect to be asked to attend Regionals.
9:52 - a lot will depend on who wins State Cup. If Bangu does win, then most things will remain status quo based on your comments as few will come over. To consolidate talent, all you are really talking about is the best 4-5 kids not on the top team. The top team gets stronger, the teams losing players get weaker and the gap widens. I'm not familiar with the situation, but how did Bangu blow it last year?
I think some of the shine is wearing off the Bangu label. I agree the consolidation if it happens next year will be with another club. Too much baggage there. Still I'm not convinced it is necessary at 14 but the winds blow that way. We'll see.
Sounds like if there is consolidation then there might be two consolidated teams. I doubt many Bangu kids would leave even if they do not win State Cup. What we are really seeing here is the stepping up in coaching and commitment from the CC's in developing a greater talent pool in response to the headstart that Bangu had on everyone. This is good for overall MN player depth, but usually makes for minimal regional success. Being a casual bystander, I'm still curious what mistakes Bangu made last year during tryouts as referenced by 9:52.
The top team at any age group needs allowances that CCs cannot give. If the Bangu shine is fading, then another true soccer club needs to be formed and step up in their place. The only time a CC can boast a true consolidated elite team is at the older age groups.
My guess is that the new Thunder Academy will be the consolidation vehicle on the boys side in a few years. Hopefully the same will be true on the girls side. If we all agree that talent should be brought together, then it makes sense to do it under the Thunder as the apolitical, non-community-based entity.
Anyone else have another opinion? Someone sell me on the fact that an EP, Wings, or St Croix would provide a better choice for talent.
The mistake Bangu made was announcing their Blue and White teams early. Parents who felt their girl was too good for a second team went to other clubs to play on a first team.
A handful went to SS's Rev team. Smurf, you must not be behind talent consolidation at the younger age groups... or not at all??
You need a strong unifying presence to ever make it happen. Be in MA with the U14's, JE with the U16's, the current & previous Stars coaches, or ES with the U18's.
I agree 100% that the Thunder Academy will be the way to go, but only if my child is chosen. If she is not, that it is flawed idea doomed to fail.
10:05 and 9:52 You may be right or you may be wrong. Who cares? Let the kids/parents decide what is the best option for their situation.
Bangu certainly isn't the choice for my family, we believe in the Community club approach whenever possible. I can see situations however when a "Bangu" like option may be the right choice for specific situation.ie: poor comparable talent at an age group, poor coaching or training opportunities etc.
Before someone says it, No my daughters have NOT been cut from a Bangu team. We are very happy playing on a very competitive Community based club.
U16 is the year when the top players should play together. This is when teams start seeing a large number of college coaches at their games. By u17, most of the top tier kids have made their college choices and those who are just coming over are not getting the same type of exposure. It would probably benefit teams to have a solid core from u13-u15, but there is a good deal of change that the girls go through at those ages. Most kids ability and potential becomes pretty evident at 16. If I remember correctly, the old St. Croix (86/87?) and the current Bangu group (89/90?) truly came together at u16. I also think that kids moving into their sophomore years need to start determining whether soccer is a priority over other sports. Whatever they choose, they need to find a situation that suits them best.
There are a number of great players playing at all levels. I think that the kids need to find the right environment for their future goals at the u15 and u16 age levels. I guess kids finding the appopriate environment for future goals applies to any age level.
Geez - this is kind of what a good blog can actually be. Decent dialogue, open minds, interesting topic, not a lot of bashing going on. Kind of enjoyable!
If you do that though you are relying on previous teams from your club having out of state success so that you can get into the top tournaments when you hit U16. Then you are back to depending on one club to have success. For example, Inferno is just now finding it easy to get into top flights at major showcase tourneys as they have had success the last few years. If they had just started at U16 it would have been too late as the Woodbury name is not enough to guarantee acceptance. Hence you saw the "MN Inferno" label used on a few applications. Bangu Blue came together at U16 and almost immediately was granted acceptance to major showcases in part because their club has established a name for their blue teams. If college exposure is a goal it helps to have a resume for your team when you get to U16.
To clarify I refer to Bangu Blue U18 in previous post.
For the most part I agree with 10:35 except you need an individual(s) unifying the program. Personally, I believe Bangu has a bit of an edge as their club has their recent accomplishments behind them to sell the prospective players the "college showcase" experience as well as their name recognition.
10:35
I agree it is important to combine talent at the older age groups. But I also think your second paragraph "kids finding the appropriate environment for future goals applies to any age level" is a good argument for consolidating as early as U13. Girls will be exposed to a high level of training and commitment and will soon discover if they want to continue at that level. I think 13, 14 and 15 are important development years and if kids are consolidated earlier, they will be that much better at 16, 17 and 18.
Maybe you start with as many as 4 teams at U13 which will be reduced to one or two teams by U16?
10:53 makes sense. Wider pool of kids doing high level training and playing high level games. Also to counter the getting in high level tournaments, instead of parroting "Bangu gets in them others don't" let's think along these lines, a team comes together at 15 or 16 I assume our state director of coaching could weigh in and say this team belongs... Now attack!
10:28, announcing teams early is a big "catch 22". Parents complain about pool play and teams being finalized late as it is now often too late to catch on with another team. They announce them early and the "white" or 2nd team has a mass exodus.
The problem they have is the Academy coaches have too much input into the teams which results in the bulk of one U12 Academy team forming most of the U13 Elite team. They need to have a greater separation between the two.
What's funny is what most folks are saying on this topic in many ways is the foundation for the Thunder program recently proposed and shot down. 4-6 top teams at the younger age groups with consistent, qualified, quality high level training that is then consolidated at the Elite level. Are we shooting the messenger (Bangu) when it comes to this direction?
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't think it is an absolute mandate to consolidate teams down to one or two top teams. Whatever happened to developing players and their individual skills. Is it impossible to create (build) a top level team through player/team development. Don't get me wrong, I believe it is important to pool like level players together. But to start actively recruiting players at 13/14 seems to me like the coach,club is taking the easy way out.
Lets work with the Clubs to develop strong year around training opportunities so the kids can "keep their touch" throughout the winter so teams can work on TEAM training with tactics rather than spending the first month of the season trying to get the feel back.
I would guess you would be hard pressed to find a good hockey player in MN who isn't skating at least a couple of time a week year around.
I hope soccer can "set the bar" a bit higher rather than concede we can only provide one or possibly two top teams and then create those top teams only if we "steal" all the best players from surrounding teams in order to create one super team that we all agree nationally may not really be that Super anyhow.
1100 Our state director of coaching would have very little influence without being able to point to previous success, which brings us back to square one.
11:22 I vote for you to be czar of Mn soccer I'm serious. Know you are about to be viciously attacked by Goobers.
You can have all the talent possible on a team and still not do well if you don't have a good coach. A successful coach doesn't even always need all the "best" players on the team but the right mix of players on a team. Did Herb Brooks pick the "best" players to win gold for the US? In his mind he did and it wasn't who others thought should be on the team. So it's not just focusing on getting the best players. A good coach gets results and that is a bigger draw for my kids playing before what club they play for.
1122 I disagree with your last statement. Name me a similar size R2 state that has better teams from U14-U18. Not Wisconsin, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio N and S etc.. The only states in R2 that consistently outperform our best teams are Michigan and Illinois, states with much larger populations. Check regional results for the last year or two if you disagree.
9:33 Not alot of games played or reported yet, but here is what I found for the U-13/U-14.
U-13
SCV 1 vs BHK 0
Bville 1 vs Bangu U12 0
Prior lake tied Roch(not in the cup) 1-1
DktU-12 beat Lakeville(not in the cup) 5-1 Rev is out also but was in the play in game.
U-14
Only team posted was a exibition game that was won by SS's Rev team over Burnsville.
Hard to draw too many conclusions from so few games.
Why are 13 tams playing 12's?
There were some premier games played last night too.
11:32 If the Bangu crowd wants to beat me up for my comments, so be it. I wasn't trying to take a shot at them, they by no means have an exclusive on recruiting.
I was more trying to encourage all to help make your teams/clubs better so other opportunities will look less appealing compared to what your team/club offers. "a rising tide lifts all ships" became a cliche because there is truth in the words that can be applied to many situations. I believe MN youth soccer needs a rising tide , not over aggressive recruiting. Much recruiting strengthens that team, but weakens the system. The system needs to strenghthen itself through a broader level of player and team development.
Again, No my daughter did NOT get cut from Bangu or any other team.
No I am not trying to pick a fight, I just believe we can do better as a whole.
12:04 Results?
12:13 - I totally agree with your concept of CC's making themselves better. I have lived that. What I have always proposed would still require them do so if that is an objective of the club.
However it is time to finally get MN select academy teams together to train and play games together on an on-going basis. If a player tries out and does not make it, back to their home club they go. ODP does not do this.
Agree select teams need to be done. We need a different model than we presently have and the Bangu Thunder is not the right answer at this time due to issues already beaten to death here and elsewhere. Split 4 regions dividing metro into 4 quadrants. Request proposals from clubs in each area have 4 teams home player resides in dictates their region no exceptions. Train play evaluate then pull a "superteam" from the 4 teams after a year. Do this for a year maybe two quit obsessing about who wins 13 State Cup for now.
You know I think it is GREAT that there seems to be alot of interest in the U-13 State Cup. Maybe that is the start of moving thing ahead(a rising tide). Without intrested parties we have no chance of moving the overall play level forward.
If your proposal is the right one (4 quadrants) you better hope there is significant interest in the 13"s and down. If your plan is the one, and it may be, the 13's today are 15 before you suggest we put together this "superteam".
U-13 interest is Great in my book.
U-13 is also the first age group where the winner competes at regionals and IMO is the natural starting point.
I don't think 9-11 year old kids need to be running all over the metro to "train with high level players" That is simply a tool for revenue. Our system needs some $ available to go to clubs where kids actually train and play Help them with training and programs leave the kids there. From what I've seen the past few years is pushy parents running to alleged elite clubs. This we seem to agree is not achieving the results any of us want except those making a living off these parents.
Once again, from what I am reading here, it sounds like most folks want a structure similar to the Thunder Academy proposal which is regional at the earlier ages and then funnels into a few top elite, select teams. Quick question - hopefully some honest answers - if the Thunder proposal had been presented by MYSA (versus Bangu) would the response have been different?
Yes I think it would have. Why do the national orgs come and do RFP's ? To insure buy in from the clubs in the state. If the proposal had been from MYSA (they do lots of good things too) I am sure Bangu would have been the biggest naysayers having most to lose.
1:17 Spot on! I can hear it now "Suzie you don't want to go play and train there, We have the "name" we can get in tournaments that will give you exposure blah blah blah.
1:17 - without any Bangu involvement you might be right. Unfortunately, you still need some entity to run the whole thing that IMO is outside the current CC environment. Who would be putting together the elite teams? The key CC players? I can see it now, each time would have 3 EP kids, 3 WDB kids, 3 WZT kids, etc.... This is also starting to sound more like a year round ODP program and everyone seems to hate that. Yes, the grass is always greener on the other side.
I think it was a mistake of quantum proportions to have Bangu/MA nvolved in the presentation and managment of this program. MA has built some great teams and is a strong businessman by many accounts. Thats the problem, most of us who it was presented to think there is a catch. Few if any that I have talked to don't like the general idea, and likewise few if any I have talked to trust it will be run as anything other than Bangu with different stripes.
I believe there is a way to make this work, but the chances are severely diminished in my mind due to the already present perceptions.
My crystal ball says that the Bangu/Thunder merger will happen.....the dust will settle over the next few years.....the Thunder Academy will slowly gather momentum.....time will heal some wounds......some form of metro wide academy/elite program will be put into place in less than 3 years. It won't please everyone, will surely anger a few, but will be palatable for most.
There would be an organizational structure needed. No, not 3 kids from each club. Have traditional try out form these 4 teams base it too on desire and ability of the player to train regularly. Part of the problem with our present "Elite teams" is the need to win by the clubs outweighs checking if their recruits are truly committed to training. Get rid of the kids who will help 11 yr olds win games but will not be part of a long term training program whether they are good atheletes or not. They belong in a cc until they can decide their level of participation. there needs to be a longer term look or we'll be in this same place 5 years hence.
1:43 The problem with that (Bangu/Thunder Merger)is it will validate all who think this is just a rebranding of Bangu.
The only way I can see it work is to disolve all of Bangu, then form only one top Thunder team at ages 13+ and have that team play midwest league.
The Thunder then will have to work with CC's on training opportunities to improve the training level at all CC's.
My guess is that will be very difficult for the Thunder management to buy into, simply because it will be an expense to them not a revenue stream. The old follow the money theory.
Happening and successful are worlds apart in the present climate. Putting a dress on a pig still is a pig.
1:43, the problem is time doesn't seem to be healing some wounds. It's the same old conversation and we will never move forward in theis state until the adults stop acting like children and remember this is not about them, or their egos and no one owns any of the kids. It's about providing the highest level of opportunity for those who have that desire.
People need to get over their anger and see the thunder/bangu model would be a huge step forward.
1:43, the problem is time doesn't seem to be healing some wounds. It's the same old conversation and we will never move forward in theis state until the adults stop acting like children and remember this is not about them, or their egos and no one owns any of the kids. It's about providing the highest level of opportunity for those who have that desire.
People need to get over their anger and see the thunder/bangu model would be a huge step forward.
Get rid of the kids who will help 11 yr olds win games but will not be part of a long term training program whether they are good atheletes or not.
Yes!
1:53 - agreed, not in the present climate. 2-3 years from now? Some entity must take the lead and lets be honest, there will never be a program that pleases everyone, has 100% buy-in, nor eliminates the CC's.
I guess I'm just in the camp that is trying to keep an open mind about the different potential scenarios. I hear alot of hoping and wishing out there, but so far I have only seen one concrete proposal put forth. Everyone seems to know where they want to go, but the roadmap to achieve it is full of dead ends, highways that do not realistically exist and potholes.
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