Even 3 years ago, Wings SC were poised to be MN's top soccer club. With the recent updates to the gotsoccer.com club rankings, the Wings have officially slipped to #3 and have been surpassed by their next door neighbors PSA.
OK, gotsoccer.com may not be the best team ranking, but it does reflect relative club strength. Before anyone jumps on PSA being a 1 trick pony with 15 Boys, 3 years ago, Bangu was reliant on the original Tsunami Sota girls for club ranking points. Congrats to PSA.
If I recall previous rankings point totals, Wings have accumulated about 1/2 of the points they had just 2 years ago. I think most would agree that the former DOC Steve Bellis was instrumental in building the club to notoriety. Has his departure led to their slide? Can they recover?
I think most would agree that having a number of top clubs, focused on developing elite players and teams, is probably the best scenario for MN youth soccer. This post is not meant to dig at the Wings, or their current DOC or board, but to create a spot for discussion around what is next for MN club soccer. How will clubs continue to attract and develop top players and teams?
276 comments:
1 – 200 of 276 Newer› Newest»I'm always asking myself those two questions too
"what just happened? "
and
"where the heck am I going?"
good luck with those answers - I can't help
Bangu's focus on the boys side is a major factor. Almost all Minnesota clubs have one coaching director overseeing both boys and girls teams. Bangu is pretty unique in this regard allowing Zahl to focus on the boys and Cook to focus on the girls.
They also have Abboud to focus on boys and girls at U8-U12 allowing Cook and Zahl to zero in on U13-U19 ages. This is obviously working for that club.
PSA pulling players from the "Wing's geography" is another contributing factor.
The Wings board interfering with Bellis' plans and desires another negative in the Wing's slide ultimately resulting in his resignation.
Tomass, you have to help. This is your time to shine!
From the outside looking in, the Wings have fallen prey to what alot of clubs in MN struggled with. Parently involvment in actual team selection and development. Why go play for the Wings when you can have the same "junk" on a community club team???
mnfutbol, who is the jockey on the PSA pony? Its not their coaching director - WB! the club is still your rec club and no need to recongnize PSA as a power house. congrats to the jockey on the PSA pony for giving PSA some name recogniction. the gotsoccer ranking is points based and one team for PSA got most of their points. is somebody taking notice?
It appears Plymouth has only 2 teams in Premier or MWRL.
They have the U15 Boys and U18 Girls.
The success of their U15 Boys team has pushed them up the ladder but is hardly indicative of the club as a whole.
They are still far behind our club, the Wings, in overall club strength.
goal post hit the nail on the head regarding CC's parental involvement in team selection, development, and club policy. Too often the biases and needs of many parents' players or an age group take priority over the good or priority of the whole. Too often you can not get cc clubs' parents to work as a team. Too many contradictions and hidden agendas exist. One age group or gender group could care less about the success of the others far too often.
At least at Bangu (kool-aid powered or not) there seems to be more support for the success of the club then at any cc club I have seen. So I guess it comes down to me versus we in the overall direction and objectives of clubs. Few act on them, many give great lip service.
anon 837 - not only is he the jockey, but also the trainer, and owner of the team.
I am sure PSA can not use the Super Eagles as a marketing tool and a spring board for continued success because they want to be PC and not make any of the other teams feel less significant or wanted ( the envy and hurt feelings that parents have) and because they have no other team that has represented the state in soccer as significantly as the Super Eagles have. It's too bad for this team because they have to be treated in the same manner as all the other teams. Or, maybe PSA realizes that taking credit for this team would be sheer hypocrisy since the Super Eagles are the adopted orphan child of the club and the success does not belong to them
One team did not get most of PSAs points. The PSA girls have more than the PSA boys.
Boys total points are 925
Girls total points are 1167
Here are the teams that got points for PSA:
U11 Boys: Plymouth SA - Copper Finalist
U15 Boys: Plymouth SA Eagles - RegionalSemiFinalist
U12 Girls: Plymouth SA Storm - State Finalist
U15 Girls: Plymouth SA Rage - Bronze Finalist
U15 Girls: Plymouth SA Wildfire - SilverSemiFinalist
U16 Girls: Plymouth SA Strikers - SilverChampion
U17 Girls: Plymouth SA Revolution - Bronze Champion
U18 Girls: Plymouth SA Panthers - SilverFinalist
U18 Girls: Plymouth SA Spartans - State Finalist
PSA, Bangu whatever.... The point is the Wings are not the Club they once were. Proof-
2005 State Cup Camps U14G, U17B, U18B, Finalist U15B, U14B
2006 State Cup Camps 17B, U18B Finalist U16B, U15G
2007 No State Cup Camps, Finalist U17B, U18B, U16G
I think there is a sharp decline here folks...Even more telling is how the Wings have disappeared at the younger ages. This tells me this started happen before SB left.
PSA is not the problem for the Wings; PSA is probably just taking advantage of the Wings mismanagement. Unlike Bangu who have lock up being the Premier Club at the very least South and East Districts’ (an arguable the State) the Wings nor any club have been able to provide those same services to anyone in the North and West Districts.
I would agree with Tomass and go two steps further:
- Club boards/leadership that allow their DOC and coaches to make "soccer" decisions with minimal club-level interference usually have a better chance of success. Bellis was very good at balancing the volatile mix of club politics versus making football decisions (i.e. team/coach selection).
- Quality players who want to continue to "push" themselves gravitate towards quality coaching and are less concerned about club identity.
Some might argue that the state of boys soccer, ACROSS THE BOARD, has declined the past few years.
This may have more to due with the talent pool than coaches or clubs.
PSA are finding success like EP and Woodbury because they have numbers and somewhat of a structure in place for training. Are they the second strongest club in MN? Who knows. What I do know is that comparing any cc to Bangu is apples to oranges. Sorry cc coaching directors, that's the facts jack. As for best cc, I think that's still a toss up. Many are trying to (and succeeding in) doing good things for the kids. Look out for MU. Heard there was talk about an MU/Bangu merger. End of story (in a good way) if that happens as MN would become a true force in the region - central location, geographic Academies, good trainers and system, large rec population, Bangu's name and clout in the region/nation. I know the MU board changed recently though, so maybe the visionaries were displaced.
With Bangu pulling most of their top teams out of MN Premier leagues it will be even more difficult for CCs to keep up. Top players on CC teams could previously count on getting a couple of outstanding games each year as part of league to test their abilities and development. With the top teams at most age groups out of premier, an even larger mistique will draw the top 1 or 2 kids from each remaining premier team who want to go to either been seen at showcases, playe on the top team, continue their development during training by playing with the best, etc. US Soccer was the difference in allowing Bangu to get to this level. It allowed roster flexibility and the ability to work around CC and MYSA politics. Over the next 2-3 years look for Bangu continue to draw top players and develop multiple teams at each age group that play in the MRL, Super-Y and USYSA National league. This will push MN CC soccer even further down the food chain.
Anonymous 2:29
I can see where the argument regarding a decline in boys soccer. I would even concede the point regarding talent pool. If that that case why is there a declining talent pool, when girl�s soccer talent pool seems to be growing?
I personnel think the lack of a D1 Men�s Soccer Program in the state is the most obvious reason for a declining talent pool. Most of the best coaches in the state gravitate toward the girl�s side of things, as there are more high-level opportunities there because of the D1 Colleges. This means girls are getting better development opportunities, better coaches ergo better players
The second and probably most significant reason there is a decline in the talent pool for boys is club soccer inability in Minnesota to organize multiple funding sources other then the parent�s pocketbooks. You want to play U17 Premier Soccer, Midwest League and College Showcase is prepared to send a cool 5K, in coach�s fees, traveling expenses, and indoor training space just to top the list. Now add in all those scholarship players to the team, that clubs and coaches expect the parents to divide there fees up and pay. Where as in football they have large booster clubs, baseball has American Legion, and hockey has pull-tabs. In other words, the communities are actively involved in supporting their programs and athletes financially. Now, I maybe wrong here but�as we are all celebrating the success of Bangu programs (it is very good!) how long will they be able to sustain it without getting a sponsor, or some sort of bank behind it. This effects the boys programs more, I believe, for two reasons: One because I think there are more scholarship player on the boys side of the programs (I do not know this as a fact, but because of the number of boys parents I hear complain about it feel to be true). Two because other girls sports as poorly organized as girl�s soccer. The last I checked the Red Hat Society was not funding our local fast pitch team.
goalpost- good post. My gut also tells me there is far more scholarship players on the boys side at all levels of play and many players just play within their community/culture programs.
Boys soccer in this state will only continue to decline with growing popularity of lacrosse. At the very least it will be another activity to drain the pool of top quality boys athletes. In this age of athletic specialization, boys (slightly more so than girls) are being told they need to focus on one sport year round. Hockey and Basketball go year round and that isn't going to change soon, both of which also offer many more college scholarship opportunities.
Tomass
I knew I was somewhat throwing a bomb but wanted to stress the point that soccer lack of multiple funding sources is impacting both sides of the programs just I felt the boys side a bit more.
I have heard more parents complain about the cost of ODP this year than any other years. Most are speculating on whether the rise in cost is due to the increase in scholarship players on ODP. Moreover, it is just ugly and nasty for those players. I not even speculating on whether it true or not it but it is obvious that parents are feeling put upon regarding the rising cost of soccer. Until soccer in the United States figures out how to fund development with something other than parents pocket books we will have problems.
As far as Lacrosse goes, it another sport the boys can be successful at and allows then to do multiple sports and does cost a fortune for the parents. Lacrosse is making itself very user friendly.
goalpost - I assure you if the MYSA had their financial house in order many solutions could be offered up that currently are not present.
I would disagree with boy’s soccer declining as far as the quality of individual players. I think over the past 3 or 4 years, boy’s teams have not been able to consolidate talent like the old Blawkhawks, St. Croix and Bangu teams. And thus the level of play of teams going to regional and national tournaments has dropped. If you look at this years U18 age group and the number of players that will play division 1 or be probable high-impact players at D3 schools you probably have Bangu with 8 or 9, Wings with 6 or 7 (2 or 3 of their best players will be juniors or seniors next year), Maplebrook with 3 or 4 and a couple of others scattered at Mahtomedi and Blackhawks. That makes about 20-25 high quality players. I would say the numbers are similar to previous years. I think 4-5 years ago, most of these players would have been on the same team by 17.
The girls have done a much better job at consolidating talent and thus have done better regionally and nationally. I think this comes back to parental involvement and boys, and boy's fathers mostly, not being able to swallow their pride. The intensity and athleticism required to play the boys game at 16+ also means that some top athletes just get burned out or turn off. Taking nothing away from the girls game (ok my daughter won’t kill me now!)
I would also say that lacrosse is not a serious threat to soccer except for the competition for fields. The burst the sport saw 2 years ago has already subsided. They are still fighting for field space, but have not been able to consistently draw top athletes or build competitive leagues.
ODP costs have always been an issue. I have had both boys and girls involved on and off over the past 8 years and cost have always been high. I think there were definitely fewer scholarship players in the past, so maybe costs have risen a bit to cover them.
I don't believe that hockey has more scholarships available for boys. There are far few hockey schools with 60 D1 and on 7 D2 hockey schools. I believe soccer has 196 D1 and 130 D2 schools. Hockey offering up to 18 per school for a total of 1188 and soccer offering 9.9 per school for a total of 3227. Hockey does have the advantage of being our unofficial state sport…only wish I could skate!
marco - the point about D1 college scholarships, I believe, was directed more towards what this state has to offer. At least that is how I read it.
I agree with you on lacrosse in regards to fields. THAT sports tears up the field as badly as football does (sorry ems) I also agree that soccer being a world sport and lacrosse being more a regional sport will limit it's growth nationally.
I have lost a few soccer athletes at the younger ages to lacrosse, but the appeal on the boys side (and maybe girls) is that it is the field equivalent to hockey. The eye hand coordination is great training. So in this state, lacrosse will continue to have a strong base now that it has been established for a while regardless of what happens elsewhere in the US. As long as we are officially the state of hockey and it remains the official state sport (sorry marco) lacrosse will prosper eh?
goalpost - an addendum to the prior financial cost post and how the MYSA could correct it; funny how on the bottom of the MYSA player pass it says
" The Game for all Kids" maybe should now include a disclaimer "only if they can afford it"
If the point was state level, I missed it, obviously. There has been talk for about a year now around the U putting team back together at the expense of men's gymnastics. I think a team with about 1/2 MN state talent would be very competative in the big 10.
I've know about a dozen kids that jumped in to lacrosse over the past 2+ years. Only 1 still plays at any level. That said, I don't hang around with hockey players, so I could be way off.
I think the "only if they can affort it" is on equal footing with all highly competative youth sports. Most soccer clubs and soccer teams carry scholarship players. Some at the 3-5K per year per players. The clubs help out, so do parents. Youth basketball might be the exception. However, their facilities are basically free for practices and games. The are funded by community parks and rec and cities.
Is your point is that MYSA should be involved in collecting and distributing scholarship funds? I'm not sure MYSA could handle managing scholarship funds at a state level. Especially since the larger CCs tend to try to bully/squash the smaller clubs and their player development plans.
At some point, hopefully, professional teams/clubs will help fund youth soccer in the US. The ability for a CC to sell 1 player every 10 years would probably fund scholarships for dozens of players per year. Can someone who know more about how the professional clubs help steer youth development in Europe, South America or Africa chime in here? I'm a novice at best.
It seems like we have a lot of people trying to make a living on youth soccer, but no real system or progression for build something economically sustainable.
BTW, anyone see Freddy Adu in the U20 world cup tourney? He looks good, but I think it is about time he gets himself to Europe and see if he can develop into a real talent. Mnfutbol how about a thread about US professional players and their development?
marco-
no to MYSA handling scholarships for individual clubs, but yes to them being able to fund and support an identification/development program for the state. Look at the percentage of where every dollar goes in their "alleged budget/financial report" they have. There is some pork that could be trimmed.
I'm trying to remember the name of the soccer program for special-ed players that some good people were running but could not secure the necessary funds outside or within the MYSA.
That went by the wayside but could have and should have been funded by the state orginization.
marco - i'm for topics like you suggested. mnsoccer tried hard but there are not too many that contribute to the discussion to keep it going. Basically we're not talking about MN kids or teams so most of parents on this site do not contribute. However I do enjoy the MIAC discussions that go on in the fall.
Adu was brutally labeled too early on by marketing geniuses that wanted to squeeze dollars out this young player. He has really made this u20 world cup his own. I didn't hear the exact reason why his tryout with the EPL didn't get him into one of the European Academies. This performance will send him across the pond for good and will only accelerate his development. The MLS was NOT the best idea in my opinion, but he got to stay in the US and in front of the marketing audience with the dollars they were hoping to bleed from him.
How many follow EPL and would him playing over in Europe increase the US TV share for the EPL if he played in that league?
Do you know who has been impressive in CONCACAF and now this tourney. Bradley! I was thinking that he had to be really good to be the coach's son and play on the national team or else it was just the good old boy system at work. He has proven his worth.
I also have like the up-tempo, high pressure style of play Coach bradley has them playing. It will fit Adu well. I think I may have been mistaken about Bradley
I Do think the offside call in the Canada game was very questionable since the player scoring was not in an offside position (based on TV angle) when the ball was struck, but "in the opinion of the referee" ......
hows that for a start marco - talk amongst yourselves, I'm verklemphf (sp? sic)
Marco,
"It seems like we have a lot of people trying to make a living on youth soccer, but no real system or progression for build something economically sustainable." Was exactly what I was trying to say but you said it so much better. I do still feel this lack of economically sustainable system is hurting the boy’s development more. I also do not think MYSA can fix this, US Soccer needs to fix it. I also think there are way to many people making big buck on soccer. I strongly suspect there are few people in Minnesota making 60K to 80K on youth baseball, baskeball or football. Or even a youth coach making 10K on baseball, basketball, or youth football. Last time I went to a game, all were volunteer coaches.
The fact that the boys side is more fractionalized I do not think is due to parents wanting their kid to be the super stars at home. In fact, I think it just the opposite. Bangu has defiantly built the rep on the girl’s side only the best players play for Bangu. If your not the best your playing for a cc team. On the boy’s side, Bangu has not been able to establish that rep quite yet. I think going to Super Y will start to bring the boys in.
WOW
I just got a look at the league standing! I knew the Wings we're slipping because of there performance at State Cup. But they are not just slipping they are in a free fall!
Boys
U19- 4th place
U18- 3rd place
U17-last place will be C1 next year
U16- 3rd or 4th place
U15- 5th place, just made 25%
U14- No horse even in the premier race
This from the club that just 2 years ago was the dominate force in Boys Minnesota soccer. This isn't just a SB thing, this is a change of direction from the club and board!
If the board has decided to go in a different direction, more power to them. Just don't stop the players and families who leave looking for better options.
so anon 10:42 - the options now being offered by Wings are not attractive or appealing to the players that are leaving?
What is missing that was there before or what is new that is not hooking them?
Tomass, I don't know if they are appealing anymore or not. But if the board decides to go in one direction and families choose otherwise, the club should send them off with their blessings. Or, if people don't like the current board direction, step up and join the fun to make change.
I highly doubt that any change made by the board was a conscious decision. So those players looking for something more are and were totally clueless. I would suspect you will see droves of their top players leaving this year.
not anon anymore - ahh thanks, a kind tip of the hat to you.
goalpost - I have to disagree- Boards made up of parents with biased and vested concerns in their player's best interest do make short-term, short-sighted conscious decisions that have a huge long term impact on club and state direction.
I have seen this time and time again.
not anon anymore.... your last statement is so true but the current state soccer organizational structure does not encourage volunteerism. Because of choices, people would rather leave for the greener grass on the other side of the fence than stay and correct problems in the current club they are playing for.
That is why I have rarely seen contested elections for board position in any soccer club. Whereas in hockey you have to play in your school district so people do get involve to try to improve current programs. That is not to say the politics of hockey do not contain the same biases in making decisions.
I also think volunteerism is at a all time low when many clubs have to implement a volunteer fee to either get people involved or have the funds to pay for someone else to do it. It is the same in hockey.
Didn't the wings have a cande in thier Director of Coaching Offices?
change
You are right Tomass....volunteering is at an all-time low. Most will not do it because of the time commitment and the never-ending e-mails and phone calls. Some of these get downright vicious. Throw in an occasional instance where the volunteer's kid or spouse gets vented on and you get the picture.
Some view the "volunteer fee" as a way to buy a season pass for unlimited complaining without having to step up and improve or maintain a club's programming.
halfback - so true! so true! can I have an AMEN?
Tomass
What I said was probably poorly stated. I don't think most parents involved in board decision often think past what best for me and mine. Nor do they ever think past now. IMHO for it to be a conscious decision Parents would have to be thinking long range and what was either best for the whole or what their long term goal was. But you are right, I would say the majority of the time they are only think ME.
As far as if families where locked into their communities they would behave better. LOL, I just finished my last year as a team manager. We have been VERY sucessful. My parents from the host community have by far been the most ill behaved parents. Some just because their not nice people and others protecting their childs high school interest.
I often wonder if parents behavior is a flash back to business 80's selfishness, or Northwest Airlines Corporate management style for those not having experienced the 80's. The greater good is me and mine. On the same hand when was the last time you saw a professional athlete even acknowledge the support he/she got from their community.
Euro has the right rules, develop and sell. The players is a piece a meat to make a profit on or use. Parents are not even allowed a say on the process.
Steve Bellis was for sure what was holding them together. He is a great guy and a good coach. Is it possible that some of the more wealthy or club involved parents influenced team rosters and degraded the quality of the teams?
another trophy today for PSA U15 Boys at USA cup. They beat Bermuda Football Academy 5-1. PSA U15 is the model boys team to mimick now in MN.
Watched the game the boys put on a show against a very technical group from Bermuda. good job psa U15 representing MN. if this is one trick pony, I want to ride that pony!
Super Eagles - congrats,
It is a one trick pony.... correction thoroughbred
Although mnfutbol proved me wrong in an earlier post - this team is still at least 10 levels above anything else within the PSA system nor could the PSA system duplicate what this team has risen to.
The model you are talking about is a passionate coach that puts his heart and soul into his team. He not only teaches soccer but life-lessons to the kids.
PSA U15 boys is a coach driven, not a club driven team. The bulk of all the well-deserved accolades should go to him and his staff.
The Plymouth U15 Boys are a better than average team with 1 very special player.
With him they are a team capable of beating some of the best U15 teams in the country.
Without that player they would not win State Cup.
They are a 1 trick pony in 2 ways. The team is the only exceptional team in the club and the team is totally reliant on that 1 special player.
I have to give that 1 player credit however. He is a stud.
The "Special" player has not improved much in the past two years. He is blessed with quick feet, but makes questionable tactical decisions that are not addressed with his current coach, who has questionable credentials. Our adult amateur leagues are filled with players who possess the exact same skils, speed, etc.
If you watch the PSA U15s they essentially play dump and run to the "Special" player. They still play a sweeper/stopper defense, a quick sign a coach has chosen or more likely does not have the knowledge to teach proper defensive play, whilst focusing only on winning. The coach is not doing the "Special" player any favors by keeping him in the that environment. The "Special" player needs a more nuturing environment to address his tactical development, but as is the case with many youth coaches, egos become the presiding rule of the day.
Lots of teams pro and amateur have a special talent on their team. Every one of our opponents has one too! Sounds like more "sour grapes," by ??? ---a scorned player? Doubtful, sounds more like a scorned parent. Unless you've travelled everywhere they have and seen who and how they play, go peddle your papers. By the way, that "special" player is th FIRST ONE to say that a soccer team isn't based on one person, and that the rest of his team IS NOT chopped liver.
Get off your high and mighty throne anon 2:22.
when you or your kid's team is ranked #6 inthe region, and #24 in the country, wait until people take pot shots at you---you'll think they're as spiteful and jealous as you come off right now. Stop insulting a team comprised of great GROUP of kids
Anonymous 2:22 & 3:26
Guess what, who cares. It is one team! One team does not make development. To argue whether they are good or not is pointless. Any fool(not to imply this is the case) can gather up a couple of great players and win games. It takes hard work and MANY people (parents/coaches/fans) to create club/state organization that develops consistant talent.
I've seemed to touch a nerve with the PSA U15s Head Cheerleader. I am not a scorned player - too old - nor am I a scorned parent - I have not had the pleasure of having children play youth soccer here in Minnesota, I need some help there after a couple of failed attempts, any takers? - but thank you for your response, you proved my point exactly. I have seen the U15 team play tournaments here in Minnesota and was able to watch them play a great game against Valley recently - PSA was down 3-0 at half and PSA came back to win 4-3? - but I stand by my analysis. The team and specifically the "special" player are immature tactically. The coach is sacrificing, either purposely or because of his lack of credentials - suspect the latter - education in order to win. The games I saw there was very little or no tactical play in any area of the game, except "boot ball". Midfield buildup was sorely lacking. And the "special" player did the same thing repeatedly. There are other teams that do much the same, granted, but they don't have this particular "special" player and they aren't premier teams. I don't witness this much with other premier teams at any age level. Result oriented soccer is not how a coach develops players. Shame.
The "special" player needs another environment to blossom. A "boot ball" environment is not where he needs to be.
I should point out I am not anon 11:46.
The only real response the Head Cheerleader can give is about rankings. Do they really matter in the grand scheme of things? Or is it the development of the players? The coach may be teaching life lessons, the "special" player may be a great team player, the team does have other talented players but that was not my point. It's evident the Head Cheerleader is only concerned about winning and rankings.
While I won't make presumptions since I do not know if the Head Cheerleader even has a lad on the team, but the word "coat tails" may deem consideration.
I read recently the book by your American baseball player Ripken, and he writes about the baseball minor leagues. They do not worry about winning, its all about development of the players. May be a lesson should be learned here. Many American parents seem willing to sacrifice their lad's soccer education for present winning. A player without solid tactile training will suffer later.
I will add Americans have the best athletes on the soccer field. They are still sorely lacking on knowing how to play the game.
Boss is coming......
Like many before him, the special player will not continue to stand out. Wait until they are U17s. When most of the players on the field have their man legs and can pretty much keep up with him. His quickness will not continue to make up for his lack of tacticle awareness.
That said, they really are a pretty good team. And while their coach may be a little un-orthadox and qwerky, he does know the game and does a great job motivating his players.
Don't knock the sweeper/stopper system. The defensive positioning tactics are very similar to the flat back 4. Offensively they are pretty different. With the "stud" that they have, I might also limit my risk with on the defensive side of the ball with a stopper/sweeper.
It is ironic that when you get decent training, a good coach must spend months working to destroy bad habits and build solid technique. Soccer dads just cant do it, but are too dang proud to admit it. By the time you realize that you have gotten all you might get out of your club, it might be too late. More power to developing players technically at an earlier age.
the "special player" is headed to shattuck next year....PSA will fall off after this year because this "special player" will come out of shattuck like every other player and think he is a god. his teammates will falter and he will become upset.....that'll be the end of the Super Eagles
flying in a early morning plane to a foreign country and read this blog. what a shame that we MN are so naive about the game and what it stands for.
we criticize a good coach just because he is winning and beating other mn teams. "The Coach is naive, quierky, unothdox, lacks education, sacrificing player development, etc. etc." This man is not flying a boeing plane. it is sports and successful sports coaches must know something to continuously put winning team. Kevin Mchale and TWolves are also uneducated with their special player and not been able to win with him. Vikings had a randy moss (special player) and could not win with him. I you can do it, it is worth learning from. I am business and we know the buck stops where the results are in.
I know this man and I know he has more diplomas than your some of your soccer coachs.
Leave the man alone and let him help MN get on the soccer map. We need more passionate coaches like him on the boys side. Mark A. is on the girls side. I need some jabber to make this flight short.
Don't be to sure this special player is going to Shattuck next year. I understand that he has applied but not yet accepted as his GPA is not very good. I can't confirm this but have heard from others that do attend Shattuck.
If the coach is indeed teaching life lessons he should also ensure that these young men obtain good grades as their soccer careers are not a sure thing.
If this player does attend Shattuck it will be good for his overall development as they are a team structured environment and do not allow selfish play.
anon- 722 , at least we know the coach isn't doing the school work for the player or having one of the brighter players do it for him if his GPA isn't that good.
I know for a fact the coach stresses school first and foremost. Whether or not a kid chooses to follow good advice and actually apply himself at school is up to the the kid. To me that is another life lesson. If you want something you will need to work to earn it.
Works the same way for players - you can provide the best tactical advise, ask players to implement it and if they do not then you have to find another tactic to help find the field success you are looking for.
It is easy to critique tactics in a game, but it falls short unless you see what occurs in training sessions to see what the coach has to base his game tactics . Also, if this team's tactics are so primative, then why didn't one of the other genius coaches find a way to beat the Super Eagles more frequently?
Sometimes a chef has to cook with the ingrediants he has and I like the dishes being served for the state of MN soccer that the Super Eagles are serving up.
lol, hmmm, my plane landed and now we want a coach to have players do well in school, coach tactics, win games, develop players, not arrogant, and be orthodox and not querky. Do we want his players to also be good husbands who always listens to their wives? I have daughter and will set her up for a date and hopefully she'll get get married to one of these well trained players (if they have all these these wonderful qualities).
tomass, agree with you - our genius coaches could not figure a way to beat a uneducated coach with antiquated tactics - that speaks for our development in MN.
Interesting post lifted from the girls blog. I can't take credit for it but it will be interesting if MWL and MYSA allow Shattuck to skirt the rules and enter MWL without meeting the criteria other Minnesota clubs and teams must meet.
update said...
Here is the rule lifted directly from the MWL rules manual:
2.02 State Cup Requirement
Any team making application to the MRL must have competed in the State Cup competition
during the past seasonal year and must participate in its respective State Cup competition
during the current seasonal year.
Anon at 2:48 was absolutely correct with his post.
SSM does not meet eligibility requirements to participate in MWL in spring 2008.
In order for SSM to be eligible to participate in MN State Cup in 2008 their teams have to play in a MYSA league in 2008.
This thing will get really messy if MYSA/MWL try to grease the skids for SSM and give them passes other teams or clubs don't get.
16/7/07 5:37 PM
SSM may have applied to become a member of the US Soccer Development Academy. If selected they wouldn't participate in MWL, State Cup etc.
OR...Does that mean we will see a SSM Team at the State Cup? WOW! That might shake up more than a few teams! I can see TM the MWL representative and the State Cup Director going for that.
On that note, what time does ODP play, I can wait to see how SSM, whoops I mean MN does.
It will be interesting if MWL allows SSM to play in their league despite SSM not meeting the requirement of playing in State Cup in "past seasonal year".
This would set a new precedent and open up the doors for "Tournament Only" type teams to apply for MWL.
It will be interesting to learn why MWL would allow SSM to enter the league without meeting requirements it hhas placed on other Minnesota teams.
The Chicago Eclipse club is challenging Shattuck's admittance to MWL on basis of MWL rule 2.02
Standy by for developments.
Eclipse has had an ongoing "battle" with SSM regarding players/recruitment.
It doesn't surprise me to hear they are challenging SSM's entry into MWL without having to play in a league and participate in a State Cup like all the other Midwest League clubs.
Just wait soon some yahoo with the moniker mnsoccer will explain to Eclipse how SSM being allowed in USYSA events will aid soccer development in region 2. An SSM parent on a mission.
lol at incredulous - nice assumption but you would be better off betting on a blind squirrel finding an acorn than being correct about your statement. You're grasping to legitimize your rationale
I will say again like I did on the other site now on sabbatical. SSM would be great for soccer in this state as it has been for hockey in the state of MN.
SSM has the formula for success based on how they have helped hockey. I still look for them to eventually repeat that success in soccer.
I don't understand the fear - they are an academy program. They are not looking to dismantle the club system and destroy the hopes and dreams of parents everywhere nor are they looking to join the MSHSL and beat up on the high school teams.
tomass, so why do they want to play state cup? Will that somehow make them a better academy? Sorry, to have a competition all need to play by the same rules. That is not currently the case. Nothing against SSM, all for what they are trying to do. Taking a bunch of players from across the country to compete against MN teams makes them look foolish. I may even have to go to CR and cheer for Bangu and Wings. Now that would hurt a little. All for SSM playing state cup if they only use players from Minnesota.
I'm all for SSM playing in MWL, MYSA League and State Cup...IF they play by same rules as everyone.
At his time it appears they do not qualify for MWL as they have not yet played in State Cup.
Tomass
Lets look at what two biggest problems SSM has brought to MN Soccer.
1) About 8 spots on the ODP program now filled with players from different states. Which means those home grown players comming back to MN, aren't comming back to MN they going else where. And other states IL, IN, OH, WI etc...are now sending more players to ODP. Hmmm...I don't know it sounds a lot like the ND ODP program.
2) They now increased the price of soccer not to 2-5K but to 40K. You want your kid noticed and getting the best training, make sure your in the upper income brackets because otherwise your not going to make it.
Part of this blog was a discussion about development. The two biggest problems IMHO with MN soccer is one a lack of good quality coaches, and two is the cost of playing at a highest level keeps kids from playing at thier highest level.
Say - Anybody notice today PSA Super Eagles wiil be one of eight teams in the US National Soccer League?? Congrats Super Eagles!!
Also, this team is more than a one stud team. There are two studs midfielders and one super stud defender that help keep the ball out of the net.
Also, the Super Eagles have not loss a game in MN the last three years.
too bad they won't get the chance to play against the best U16s in the region or country next year, in that league - all of the top clubs are getting involved in the USSF Academy at the U16 and U18 level. Who knows, maybe some of those kids will migrate to Bangu, if they get the approval to participate in the USSF Academy?
anonymous 9:15 correction PSA will play against the top teams as this national league is @ U16. You must have meant U17.
Also, checkout midwest premier league - top region teams at U16 will be back.
Are you in a dream world about this USSF??
anon 9:15 Don't be surprise to see the migration of top Bangu players to PSA U16 next year.
anon 9:15 Don't be surprise to see the migration of top Bangu players to PSA U16 next year.
The clubs will be represented in MRL, but it will not be the top U16-18 players - they will generally be in the USSF Academy.
Why?
list, for now, of clubs in USSF Academy, U16 and U18:
Alabama
* Birmingham United SA
California
* Arsenal SC
* De Anza Force SC
* Irvine Strikers
* Mustang FC
* Nomads SC
Colorado
* Colorado Rush
* Real Colorado
Connecticut
* Oakwood SC
District of Columbia
* DC United
Florida
* Clearwater Chargers SC
* IMG SA
* Kendall Soccer Coalition
* Schulz Academy
Georgia
* Atlanta Fire United SA
* AFC Lightning Soccer Club
Illinois
* Chicago Fire Soccer PDA
* Chicago Magic Soccer Club
* Metro United Soccer Club
* Sockers FC Chicago
Indiana
* Carmel United Soccer Club
Maryland
* Potomac Soccer
Massachusetts
* FC Greater Boston Bolts
Michigan
* Michigan Wolves
* Vardar
Missouri
* Scott Gallagher
New Hampshire
* Seacoast United
New Jersey
* PDA
* New York Red Bulls
New York
* B/W Gottschee
* Empire United SA
* FC Westchester
* Met Oval
North Carolina
* CASL
* Greensboro Youth SC
* North Meck SC
Ohio
* Internationals SC
* Ohio Elite SA
Oregon
* FC Portland SA
Pennsylvania
* FC DELCO
* PA Classics
Virginia
* Richmond Kickers SC
* Richmond Strikers
* VA Rush SC
Washington
* Crossfire Premier SC
* Washington Premier FC
Wisconsin
* FC Milwaukee
List, for now, of teams (not clubs) in USYS National League:
I
Bethesda Roadrunners
MD
I
Manhattan Phoenix
E-NY
II
Chicago Wind Nationals
IL
II
PSA Super Eagles
MN
III
Dallas Texans 92 Red-Dallas
N-TX
III
Texans FC 91/92
pretty easy to figure out from there.
S-TX
IV
FC Barcelona
CA-S
IV
Slammers FC
CA-S
I've heard Bangu will apply to be a US Soccer Academy. If they do they're a cinch to be the club in Minnesota that gets accepted.
They've distanced themselves from every other club in the state in terms of success and quality of coaching from top to bottom. Didn't Bangu win 7 State Cup championships last year and 8 this year? This year I don't think any other club won more than 1 State Cup championship.
At the point Bangu gets the nod as the Academy in Minnesota it makes sense for all the top U16 players and U18 players to migrate to Bangu FC.
The PSA club has no chance to get that status and if Bangu is accepted as an Academy club then it is more logical that PSA U16's will move to Bangu than the other way around. Along that line expect to see the players from Valley's Juventus lining up at Bangu tryouts too.
If the Academies take off it will be the end of SSM and others like it.
Bangu fees are 3x the cost of PSA at U15 this year. Value is not there for players to switch over.
LOL! value is in the eye of the beholder. I like paying the Bangu fees because it makes me feel proud and boost my ego. I don't mind writing the check - believe me.
remember last year Bangu moved to US Club with their premier team. we don't know the value of the switch and my kids development but I just like to write big checks and afterall what would I be doing with the $$$.
Today, I am all excited about the academy. I am not worried, this too will cost me money and as long as my kid makes the team, I will write the big check. If you can't afford it don't come. You will be writing checks - OK.
Saw Wings new DOC at Schwann's Cup today, smoozing with the boys. The birds are sing mass exodus from this years U16 team.
If Wings trained as much indoors and traveled to same tourneys as Bangu then the costs would be the same.
Just like anything else in life there's no free lunch.
If you want the training and want to travel to showcase events then you pay for it.
To say Bangu's fees are 3 times higher than PSA is ignorant.
Gee, I wonder when Bangu is going to begin awarding HS Diplomas? Or would that be GEDs?
I highly doubt the Bangu fees are 3X that of the PSA fees. If you are talking travel costs, Bangu costs would be higher as they are playing in the MRL and Super-Y...but still not 3X. Those are pay as you go costs, not club fees. The club fees are probably within a few dollars of each other.
Heard that PSA 15s top play will probably be in residency next year and thus no longer with the PSA team. I expect their other top players will step up and they will still be the best team at the age group.
Doesn't surprise me about the Wings 16. CDA will probably get a boost next year as they are the best team in the Northwest metro. EP is too far and already has their quota of non-EP kids. I know that 1 of the Wings and 1 of the CDA players have already commited to move to Bangu next year.
The Wings 17s are also on their way out as they lost premier status and really have gone down hill since they hired their existing coach (who I've heard will not be back next year.)
Wings 18s may also implode. One of their player Dads guarenteed a State Cup championship back in April, that they were at least 2 goals better than anyone else, people who know that team can probably guess who it was...wish I would have bet some money on that one. I only saw the 2nd half of the 18s state cup final, but they were whipped.
Heard a rumor today concerning the girls' league. Anyone know if it is true that the majority of this years u16 premier league is pulling out of MYSA league for next year and that the Premier league will be filled with 6 new C1 teams?
concerned - I don't know if they can fill it that way in accordance to real policy and by-laws.......oh wait, my bad - the District Operation (lol) Committee can do what ever it desires.
eenie- menee - minee- MO catch a player by the toe, if she hollars make her premier, eenie, menee -minee mo
Regarding the U16's, you've already got two teams (33.3%) relegated which will result in two C1's being promoted right off the bat. If true, not sure who the other candidates would be (Wings?, Inferno?). If folks are leaving where are they headed - MRL?
Looked at the ODP results for the '90 & "91. The 90's did pretty good, but this has been a talented group for a while and are performing as I would expect. The 91's with all there Shattuck Players did not perform to what I would have expected to see. In fact they lost to Kentucky, who they have beat before. Having cut MN players to send multiple outstate players and then play or do poorly you have to ask your self why. Couldn't we accomplish just as much with the MN players? The 92's are still playing it will be interesting to see how this continues....
wings, woodbury and EP are already in MRL at U16 girls.
11:54...read the ODP rules and you will find that because they attend a boarding school in MN, they meet the residency requirement. Its done and over with. Quit whining and change the rules.
Yes, let us create more RULES! Common sense, philosophy and vision of what you are trying to accomplish has no place in the development of soccer. Let us create another rule the MYSA rulebook is not cumbersome enough. I sorry, but who ever is running the ODP program (AM or IB) should be able to see what is best for MN Soccer Development without a rule being made. Again, the question needs to be asked, did this or does this help develop MN Soccer? If it does not promote or develop soccer in MN, why are we doing it?
Its a US soccer rule you moron.
The USSF Academy is coming. Soon SSM will be history as far as soccer goes.
anonymous 5:36
Great come back shows thought and intelligence. I think the point was do we really need to make more rules? Or do we need a clear philosophy and understanding of what we are trying to acheive in the development of soccer. Please feel free to direct me to MN development philosophy.
Having said that I follow it my statement up with one of my favority quotes:
Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.
Euripides, Greek tragic dramatist
Another Euripides quote:
There are three classes of citizens. The first are the rich, who are indolent and yet always crave more. The second are the poor, who have nothing, are full of envy, hate the rich, and are easily led by demagogues. Between the two extremes lie those who make the state secure and uphold the laws. Geez, we can draw all type os parallels to the world of youth soccer, no? (Thank goodness for Google).
I'm confident more rule proposals will be submitted at the AGM in November.
The rumor mill has it that Tonka will present a rule that Bangu Blue teams won't be allowed to compete at State Cup and that only Bangu White and Green teams are State Cup eligible.
What is their argument that would prohibit the blue teams from State Cup?
spike - I think anon 7:37 is messing with us all. I'd heard that their rule proposoal was that only westside CC's named after kids play dumptrucks were eligible for State Cup.
Interesting score at USA Cup.
Bangu's U17 White girls team beat the Tonka U17's by 3-1 score.
Maybe Tonka should propose a rule that Bangu Blue and Bangu White teams aren't eligible for State Cup?
I know of one guy who had to be totally upset with that result.
coo coo ca choo Mrs Robinson....
I think anon @ 7:37 is refering to and making light of the the silly rule proposed last year by the whiny little guy from Tonka after his kid didn't make a Bangu team.
Because of this rule we then got to watch the DOC totally screw things up by placing a premier level team into a C3 league ruining many nights for 100's of players and their families as this premier caliber team scored 72 goals and give up 0 goals and won all 12 of their games against the poor overmatched C3 teams.
Evidently the DOC thought 2 wrongs might make it right?
You have to feel badly for the 2nd place team in this league who didn't advance because the DOC was stupid enough (or vengeful enough) to place the premier team into the C3 league.
Just noticed that the 91 ODP team won the Region II tournament and will play in the National championships. This may be a little late, but Congrats girls! There is no question that Minn girls are stepping it up at the Regional level.
MN also had 5 boys ('93's & '94's) and 8 girls ('90's-'93's) make the regional pools.
What the heck happened to the girls blog? I saw there was some rumbling about bad news for bangu on there and all of the sudden all related comments were gone and the entire blog was shut down. It's very, very funny that bad bangu news = shutdown (not that the pro-bangu proclivities of the administrator were any secret). I hope there will never, ever be any more bad bangu news (hahahaha). Got to love the hypocrisy.
What the heck happened to the girls blog? I saw there was some rumbling about bad news for bangu on there and all of the sudden all related comments were gone and the entire blog was shut down. It's very, very funny that bad bangu news = shutdown (not that the pro-bangu proclivities of the administrator were any secret). I hope there will never, ever be any more bad bangu news (hahahaha). Got to love the hypocrisy.
So does the Bangu white team beating Tonka mean anything regarding the Bangu team? I doubt it. I heard those Tonka girls have played fifty games this summer and they're probably fried. Tonka finished second in the 17p league and had a solid summer. The bangu white bunch flunked out of the 18p league. Not much comparison on regarding their overall achievements.
The girls blog shut down right after there was news posted about some very questionable actions of some of the Bangu players on abboud's team at region camp. They got kick out of ODP camp in Ill for it.
Agreed it is quite hypocritical.
googoohead,
Bangu White 3 Tonka Blue Flameouts 1...end of story.
Hey, look at it this way. At least they scored a goal against a Bangu team this year.
What team manager or coach would be stupid enough to allow a team to play 50 games in 1 summer?
Actually, it was the Bangu u16 white team that beat Tonka 3-1 not the u17s. I'm not sure if that's better or worse. It probably doesn't matter at all, just wanted to set the record straight.
The u17 white team played in the weekend tournament and looked decent beating MYSC Blue in the semis and losing to Valley by a goal on a questionable PK with a minute left.
Tonka has some great individual players, but their team play is a shadow of what it was at State Cup.
anyone know anything about the U13G BLACK Bangu team? I know about the blue white, an green but what is black? anyway the u13G usa Cup tourney still has 3 bangus (is that the proper plural?) left - 2 in cup and 1 in trophy yikes
Regarding the girls blog, please keep in mind that someone has to oversee the content. It could be that the blog administrator maybe took some time off. It is summer and everyone should take a vacation. I kind of doubt it is some kind of conspiracy. However, whatever floats your boat.
Boy, ya take some time off and everything goes to he!! in a handbasket. What happened on the other blog? Too many pointed questins or what?
Just for the record the Bangu 17 White team trains 3 times a week and played just as many games as Tonka 17's against many nationally ranked teams and older age group teams. In addition the U18 girls premier league has 5 other very high quality teams unlike the U17 premier league which has two recently promoted C1 teams.
The Bangu 17 White team Premier record speaks for itself, the games were all close, I wonder if the Tonka 17's could have done as well.
We will never know but I can tell you that the Bangu U17 White team's
focus was to showcase the girls to colleges and prepare them for collegiate play and not to win the MYSA premier league. Oh, one more thing, Tonka U17's had a Bangu guest player this week at USA cup and she was asked to play. The guest player agreed to play for the love of the game and did not have any problem playing with Tonka.
soccerr(or),
1-8-1 and outscored 19-4? Sounds very competitive. Those kids play hard and it's not a shot at them, but your statement is just plain wrong. It's too bad for Tonka that they lost to a white team (16's or 18's), as neither of those teams came close to holding their status. Regarding the U17 vs. U18 league, I heard the 17 league wasn't very good, either, but it is also definitively true that several of the U18 teams are nowhere near where they were a year and more ago. Watching the league this year, I wondered whether some of those teams were even the same as those that played in the 16's league two years ago. It's not a strong league.
bangumom- it wasn't me or ems ..................
this time!
Wow, the people from the girls blog are giving his blog cooties!!!
MN boys odp results...way to go MN???
90s - phil boerger (jamestown, nd)
91s - dula fadis, ahmed gobana, luke sollie.
92s - nada, zip, nil.
93s - isaac kanneh, eric miller, adam mohamed.
94s - mario aleman, osmael jami.
sven and ole...where has lena been?
are all those kids enrolled at ssm? lol
I think the girls blog administrator left on vacation and didn't want the blog talk deteriorating in the way that is was heading when he was away and unable to monitor. When envious cowardly parents starting taking wild shots at kids to get at a coach or a club, I think that most of us would want the talk stopped. Not the we care that much for the coach or the club, but we should be thinking about the children. I would think mnfutbol would see it the same way.
Wow...calm down people...the reality is, there are fewer than 1% of athletes that make it as pro's in any sport...that means with the 79,000 kids from 6-19 playing youth soccer only 790 of them have the chance to ever play pro ball....and given the number of Minnesotans in the pros in anything, I guess I would venture to say even fewer of the will go much further than college with their soccer..calm yourselves..
It is no wonder the girls forum shut down....He took his legos and went home. When you all agree to be nice, he'll come back and try to play again. If you don't like it, start your own blog to bash whoever screwed your team today!
Folks...
If you had taken the time to read the "Back in August!" topic on the other blog you would most likely infer that he/she is taking a few weeks vacation until August and will open that blog back up then.
Some people get cuaght up in their hate so deeply they get blinded.
If people were taking shots at indidual kids...that is uncalled for. Sorry but coaches and clubs and ruling parties are fair game.
Anything interesting setting up for summer state cup or is it all the usual suspects?
U13G Bangu Black is a tournament only team. I'm not sure of the makup of it's players.
The other blog shut down when some adults(?) were taking shots at 13 year old girls who made a mistake. Not sure if that is the reason or if he/she left town but if it was the reason it is justified. Bangumom if you would have seen somr of that junk you would have been amazed. If you are envious of Bangu then ridicule their parents or coaches or whoever but stay off the kids.
the comments ridiculing those girls did set a new low. just consider the juvenile names used to sign (bangpu etc) and you get the drift
I agree there is no free speech in blog sites. If an administrator wants to shut it down or prevent some thoughts from being published he can do it anytime he sees fit. It is his blog site and he does not need to protect anyone's free speech rights and the person that runs the blog site can get tied up in legal matters if someone's feeling get hurt in his sandbox.
How one runs his blog site and adminstrates it is the individual's prerogative. That should not surprise anyone. You can choose to disagree about content editiing but the site still belongs to him and we are only guests.
Like it or not we play by his parameters
ems: know your facts before you write. 92s may have players before its all done. how do you know so much?
- nada, zip, nil???
googoogaga,
To explain my comment that the "Bangu U17 white team was competitive", I mean that the play on the field was competitive. If you only look at the score you are absolutely correct. The Bangu U17 white team would not have had to play in the U18 Premier league if MYSA and others had any common sense.
anon 512 the odp list of names came from the mysa website at 5ish in the morning. probably not the most reliable source, i should have called a player parent.
should i assume by the post that your child is still in the running for the 92s' pool?
good luck to your little sven or ingrid!
when are you getting that tattoo? 'proud parent, my kid can spell odp!'?
on the subject of the 'other blog'...it did hit a new low, and very quickly on a couple topics. that makes me think there are a few people taking 'more than one moniker' to bolsters their position on various topics...
i'm sure word-soc was really looking forward to the posts on the new restrictions with 'open enrolling' and how they have killed the high school game...(not that ANY coach cares about a high school team)
or
how tonka united somehow manipulated the mshsl to re-organize the h.s. sections to their advantage.
or
elite clubs NOT recruiting for 08's upcoming tryouts next month!
or
beckham...now THAT's funny.
another beer please...PLEASE!
ems
Thanks for the ODP update. The question is some of the regulars that usually make the ODP regional team are not there? Could they have been pulled up directly to the National Team?
From what I saw, and granted it was a quick glance. None of the out of state players from SSM made the Regional Team.
The word "regulars" in the preceding post is instructive. Once you are on the region team/pool, whether by playing well or by having a state or college coach push for you, you are on for life. You would have to have a very poor camp to be dropped.
That why I asked, have they gone directly to the National Team? There are several of the regulars who are not on that list. That just not one year it is from '90 thru '92. The 93's & 94's haven't really established that rep yet.
ems - I thought nada , zip, nil were the names ...my mistake. You mean those three don"t exist ???
Thor Nada?
Haakon Zip?
Petre Nil?
I thought they had at least an outside chance
darn I was pulling for the Norwegian boys, well I'm off to do some ice fishing at the arena in town with Ole and Sven. I think Sven is bringing the auger.
Agree on Beckham - all hype no hope ..it's a shame that US soccer always feels the need to let the distractions entertain rather than the play. Playing an injured player for 15 minutes really showed the league's desperation.
ems - are you talking girls or boys 92s?
Girls - Sessions made the final pool again.
Boys, from holdover list posted on the region II website:
Baker, Browne, Donyen, Peterson-Darbaki, Tadese, and Yonga made the list.
Sorry, not a parent, nor a hater, nor an MYSA official, just someone who knows how to find info that is easily available on the web
http://www.region2.com/ODPPostingSystem/boysadmin/Pools/92%20HoldoverPool%20&%20Scores.pdf
http://www.region2.com/ODPPostingSystem/girlsadmin/Pools/pool_list_1992_final_web.doc
and it is info from 2006
To give ems credit. Those names were not listed on the MYSA web site. Perhaps the camp wasn't over, or they did have the information listed as of yet. There are still missing names. From both the 90's & 91's. The ones that come to mind are both SSM players. One from 90's & one from 91's.
uh, that info is from this year, not last year, go to www.region2.com, and follow the odp links, and you will find information on most pools - usually much sooner than the MYSA posts their info.
The info was up on the region 2 site when ems chose to take a shot at the anon above. it slays me when someone jumps on others for ignorance, when they are the ones who have truly demonstrated theirs.
if ems werent such a richard to so many others, i would be willing to cut him/her some slack tooooooo, buuuuuuuuuuuutttttttt...
my 'shot' as you call it, was just a bit of humor in regards to previous concerns/conversations many people were having about 'non-mn kids' coming in and taking the odp spots they covet as their own....
the non-anglo names were just examples of that, non-anglo names.
personally, may the best player get the spot...regardless of nationality (or state)
anon 448, i just took the names from the boys side that were posted on mysa that morning...
or,
maybe i have a direct connection with the people who pick the teams?
or maybe i'm one of them?
the girls info has 2006 listed right on it
ems...LOL - your sense of humor with the ODP selection was so funny...what was the punch line again?
What happened - Club realignment
Where are we headed - Hopefully to a better place.
Bangu seems to be ratcheting up the expectations for the state as a whole.
How about a topic on Summer State, or does no one care.........
For U11-U13 Summer State has some meaning, but above that it's pretty much who's the best C1 team in the state.
anyone want to offer predictions?
Big win for PSA over St. Croix in USA Cup final. Two very even teams. Nice story about the game in Strib.
Prediction: the fileds at Blaine will be lousy. Again.
Dogs of War ........all the way!!!!
it's only C2 but someone has to win at that level
feel bad for the Urban Stars u15 boys team - coach took them to Blaine instead of Chanhassen for the district tourney and they ended up having to forfeit or they might be there instead.
bad deal when an adult screws up and the kids have to pay the price for their mistake.
but you know rules are rules as they say in the MYSA office
Summer State does carry some importance as it determines who advances to Premier, which will determine what players jump clubs. While this may not effect the top one or two teams at an age group, it does seem to effect the rest.
Here's a question - when most other region 2 states recognize their region champions on the state associations website, what stops MYSA from doing the same. Too much anti-Bangu sentiments you think? Along the same vein, they should recognize PSA's U15 boys for their achievements as well at the regional event. My guess is that MYSA is trying hard not to appear to favor elite type teams, but I would think the success of these two teams in particular would be cause for at least a little celebration for the state as a whole.
mysa is community club driven and any attempt to highlight top players and top teams only causes the MYSA office to quiver. Do the numbers and you will know who butters their bread. Don't expect much to change anytime soon unless members make it happen at the ballot box in AGM.
peep,
To my knowledge MYSA didn't even recognize the Bangu U13 Girls team that won at Regions.
Was it ever posted on their home page for even a day?
This is something to celebrate with all the players in the state.
1:34pm, the initial comment was about the U13s as peep said most other states recognize their regional champions.
Word is PSA U15 boys team & coaches have been cut loose by PSA. Wow.
Not cut loose, team will be combining with Bangu. Team's choice.
JY got ousted by the PSA board. JY and Bangu have been in talks about a merger for the U16 US Dev Academy. Seems like a smart move and beneficial to a lot of the players. Question will be if JY can give up control of his team.
bangu parent-no horse in the race
why would JY do something that silly only to give Bangu glory? MA would not do something like that if he got a call from Chicago Magic and his girls - would he? as a bangu parent, we need to figure out what JY has done and mimick on boys side. he has a good group of kids and not only doing well as a unit but having fun together. we hope to see these kids continue to play as a team and continue to make MN proud.
PSA is full of another group of CC incompetent board and premiere teams don't belong in CC.
We all knew PSA was not going to settle for having its CC status compromised with a very diverse team.
good luck JY and we would continue to enjoy you coach the boys.
12:42 am...take some tylenol and call us later in the morning....
From a PSA U15 parent, Hey anon 12:42, what a refreshing comment! Your insight and comments are right on. ---One of the best things about the group of kids is that they are now good friends off the field as well--What's better than that?
We are all sitting here having a good chuckle over the rumors---everyone thinks they know everything about everything! PSA didn't cut JY loose, he made his own choice and we're moving on and done with the bureacracy and "we don't give a rip" attitude about our team. We thank PSA for giving us our start, but they're too busy enrolling lots of players and getting lots of fees for each kid to be bothered with us. If you look on their website, there is no mention whatsoever that their U15 Boys Premier team went to REgionals, not to mention that they made it to the semi finals. No where do they mention that that this same team won the Weekend Schwans Cup in the top flight. No where do they mention that their team was recently recognized as the #4 in the region, and #16 nationally. (No, rankings aren't everything, that's for sure, but they are indicators of their success agains tough teams.)
PSA won't be one of the premier clubs without this team's points! This team got where it is in spite of PSA, not because of PSA.
Any kid thinking about going to their "premier" tryouts should be aware that it isn't for the Super Eagles. So, be careful to not reigster online and get stuck with them and then have to go the hassle of a player release.
Thanks again Bangu parent for your words.
Everybody above is quick to forget the posts only two months ago where the bloggers complained about PSA's classless 15's and their parents. The chemistry on the "merged team" would be a disaster of monumental proportions.
The "chemistry" on potential merged team would be just fine.
The top players all know each other and play together at ODP.
Many of them may be together on the new USSF Academy team coming to Minnesota.
My hunch is the kids will accept this just fine but there may be some parents bent out of shape if their kid isn't one of the top players designated for the academy.
A merge is not happening, ok?! Speculation about this is pointless--JY's group is doing its own thing.
As suspected the parents of the "bubble kids" are already sounding off on how this wouldn't work.
Here's a situation where if the best kids from each of these 2 teams were put together and trained over the winter they could compete regionally and maybe even nationally
But God forbid if little Johnny doesn't make the cut...GASP!
Think bigger picture folks and do what's best for the top kids and their chance to accomplish something for themselves as well as soccer in Minesota.
From the sounds of things JY's team has outgrown their community club.
How in the world do you define top team? I would think the PSA U15 is the top team and kids from Bangu and Wings and other mediocre teams should be calling JY for roster on his top team? Correct?
Oh, lest I forgot the top team does not exist - only exist in Bangu structure.
bangu parent-no horse in the race
have been watching this for years and wish we had a boy who at the U15 or previous JY teams. I know who will be his boys coach.
Is the party really over for JY and KA at PSA? Is there anything published to confirm any of this? What concessions are they demanding as they shop their superstars around the state?
Sorry.......the party has just begun.
What happened? Where are we going?
Even 3 years ago, Wings SC were poised to be MN's top soccer club. With the recent updates to the gotsoccer.com club rankings, the Wings have officially slipped to #3 and have been surpased by their next door neighboors PSA.
OK, gotsoccer.com may not be the best team ranking, but it does reflect relative club strength. Before anyone jumps on PSA being a 1 trick pony with 15 Boys, 3 years ago, Bangu was reliant on the original Tsunami Sota girls for club ranking points. Congrats to PSA.
"PSA being a one trick pony" enough said.
So is the party still at PSA or is it going to be elsewhere? I am thinking about trying out for the team but i dont know what tryouts to go to?
The Super Eagles aren't going to party at PSA, so if you try out there, be aware of that! You wouldn't be playing with that group of players. The premiership stays with the club (stupid rule) so if you made the team, you could have an opportunity to play in the MN premier league (whoopee). Of course the kids playing on the current C1 team would probably have the best shot at it, already being with the club. Nice to have the premier spot handed to you! But, in fairness, those guys are doing really well at the state tourney right now. I think they could end up in the final against SCV (another prediction). --But if SCV ends up in the final, I think they (SCV) will take it.
Keep your ears open, I'm sure that soon word will get out where and when their tryouts are.
The current Bangu club situation provides something that other clubs, with scattered elite teams can not. The ability to play, train, guest play and scrimmage with older age groups in the same club. This is the golden ring for a club...competative player development. If you are a really good player at your age group, then train and play with the next year up; if you are a super star, then play and traing 2 years up. Bangu has this on the girls side, and almost has it on the boys side. The USSF Academy is just icing on, the icing, on the cake. I'm sure Bangu will develop a U12 and U14 program to funnel boys into the USSF 16s and 18s. I'm sure JY could still keep his team together for the most part and continue to train them, but the draw is indisputable. Staying with PSA, his players will still benefit from his program and training, but it would be even better in a club setting built to accomodate his team and with more top level players to train and play with.
PSA will go to the Blackhawks who ar busy trying to revive their dying program with application to the USSF Academy program. Buzz Lagos will coach the U18s and Donny Gramenz the U16s. Blackhawks will bend to JY's will to remain as coach of the renegade PSA group in order to benefit the Blackhawks program. This is not thinking about this kids at all, but that's about all Ted K can do to relive the gone by Blackhawks glory days.
Bangu and Hawks will have USSF Academy teams.
Wrong......try again
"know nothing," your moniker fits! Which pub do you sit in thinking up these funny quips?
What part am I wrong about?
JY taking the boys to the bhawks?
Bhawks being a dying club and trying to revive their glory days?
The coaches listed on the bhawks app to USSF?
Or JY taking the boys AGAIN is not in the boys best interests?
Please enlighten me if I'm wrong.
What part am I wrong about?
1) JY taking the boys to the bhawks?
--Completely off base buddy!
2)Bhawks being a dying club and trying to revive their glory days?
---Perhaps, but no specific comment either way.
3)The coaches listed on the bhawks app to USSF?
---Perhaps, don't have a clue.
4) Or JY taking the boys AGAIN is not in the boys best interests?
---When it aint broke don't fix it--each year new goals are set, training takes places, and goals are reached--got a problem with that?
As you can see, I don't conjure up facts or state opinions about things I truly don't know much if anything about. Obviously I have ties to JY's group and Blackhawks are not in the picture!
But I've got to hand it to you. You are doing a good job of fishing for answers by throwing out these scenarios hoping someone will spill the beans!
So anon 6:13, would you mind explaining to the rest of us peons how your team is presumably retaining premier status when, by rule, PSA is supposed to retain that status? Or, did you cut a deal?
The implications of this could be far-reaching for a lot of teams....
Can somebody explain why PSA and JY are keeping plans secret?
Do they have a saying about "presume"? ( You know what they say about ass-u-me, right? ) You can presume what you want, I never said that nor did any of my comments imply that--
So if you're so darned well-connected, why not just tell us what's happening?
Someone please get the kids off the blogs.
For a team that is thought so lowly of, all those renegade boys and parents and coaches there is so much interest in what they are doing. Why? maybe the Super Eagles are the team to be on.
HMMM....Could it be the coaches, or the parents and maybe this very talented young group of boys are the real deal? I hope they have another successful season next year. No matter where they are.
Anonymous 6:13 put it fairly clearly: When it aint broke don't fix it.
That's what has me interested. For a team that's promoted as the top team in the age group, what broke so radically and so quickly that's it forced coaches (who happen to be PSA's Vice President and Boys Director) to desperately flee PSA with the club's top team in tow? You see, the interest isn't really in the team. The interest is in the secrecy surrounding the still-rumored departure. Why are the coaches, board members, and anonymous know it alls unwilling (or is it unable?) to reveal what really happened. Who's hiding what? What's so shameful that folks won't or can't talk about why the team left?
Anonymous 8:36 - why do you HAVE to know?? Why can't two parties just agree to part their ways? I'll talk for $1k donation to the team.
Anonymous 6:35 - Why do you think a deal was cut? Maybe the team has other plans?? Again I'll talk for $1k doantion to the team :O)
Anonymous 9:19
Why the fundraiser? Is the team short on cash?
follow the money, or lack of, and you might just find an answer
Really there is no secret, the people it involves all know what is going on. They are all free to tell whoever, whenever they want. You must not know anyone personally on the team. Or at least you may not be on good terms with anyone on the team. Maybe burned too many bridges?
God, I love spin control !!!
Here is the scoop, Jerry's team is going to Bangu.
While MYSA has silly rules for retaining premier status, the MRL does not have the same. And MYSA CCs can't make rules about MRL. If their roster is the same, or very close, MRL will let them play. MYSA would be foolish to keep them out of MRL. There is also US Club, Super-Y, or even joining an association in the Chicago area and playing a full summer schedule out of town. The stupid CCs have driven and will continue to drive the top teams out of Minnesota's suppossed top league. Lastly, there will be a new league in Minnesota next year for competative youth team. Even a couple of the more progressive CCs will have teams participating.
Let's all go with the last comment.
Jerry's team to Bangu. Can't wait to go there. See you all there.
It's been mentioned the PSA national team player will be moving to Bradenton and will be in residency.
If that is accurate the entire dynamics of the Super Eagles changes and they're just another premier level Minnesota team.
Watch closely.
Anonymous 9:27 - No, I'm not fundraising, and no, the team is not short on cash. I just have knowledge that you seek and are you willing to $$ for it?
Anonymous 9:27 - You are wrong too. Way off base. Keep trying though, if you think your so smart.
Anonymous 9:53 - Wrong. No Bangu merger.
Of course no Bangu merger.
Bangu Super Eagles just wouldn't fly.
Anonymous 10:04 Wrong - Player is not going to residency. Also, team is beyond just one player - Go actully watch sometime and see. FYI - This national player was hurt during last year's region 2 play and the team ended up losing to Chicago Wind 3-2 in the semi's. Yes, PSA made it to the semi's without this player.
not merger, taking his entire team to Bangu.
The team is way behind on funds. PSA won't subsidize the team any longer.
It's no secret several of the players are full scholarship kids and others are tired of footing the bill.
Who are the "others" who are tired of footing the bill.? What has the team not paid for the last few seasons or what. I must look in my checkbook.
my take -
the coach is going to do what is in the best interest of these boys' soccer development. It is as simple as that. It wasn't being supported or appreciated at PSA so why stay in an environment not conducive to or supportive of this team's long term player success or development.
PSA probably also felt it was not in their best interest to support the team for whatever reason they want to state and live by.
I believe this is a good move for the Super Eagles from what I know concerning the situation.
disagree about premiership status staying with the club being a stupid rule. In this case the Super Eagles have additional options and are not hurt by it. As far as the PSA C1 team and some player components being handed a gift........there are a few on that team that can compete at the next level. If they don't improve the overall talent depth or current skill level they will soon lose premiership status.
So if anything it will be a test for PSA whether they have developed or recruited the needed talent to keep premiership at this age. If anything PSA's program is really the one in the spotlight of what they can produce next year.
How does going to Bangu solve any of the team's financial problems?
I heard Bangu is going to pay for them the first year.
is this the third or fourth jy led team that has ended in shambles?
say howmanymore - you sound jealous of JY success.
anonymous 10:28 - You are wrong also. Hire a better detective for your fact finding.
howmanymore...so how are you so interested in teams that end up in shambles. Maybe you don't like to win games...must not be a happy camper.
You must be one of the PSA board members content with losing games and still saying how great the board is?
OK, wow you leave and go on vacation and things get wild. Much of what Tomass said is right on. The coach will do what is best for that team. It will we interesting to see how the premiership is dealt with or if it is even a factor with these kids. Playing MWL...no one will care much about MYSA status. If they do move clubs financing what ever they decide to do is made a lot easier. With Bangu they will know right up front what thier total cost for training/development/field fees for the whole year are. As for tourneys they are limited only in thier imagination and perhaps funraising abilities
So, now my Bangu green player will be subsidizing another team? They better start adding more black teams to help fund as well.
Bangugreen don't worry, the SuperEagles are not going to Bangu.
They are going to Arsenal FC- - new club out of Brooklyn Center.
i think they are going to uranus fc
hee hee hee hee
why? a 3 team club with AR as the head of it?
Path of least resistance from an adminstrative point of view?
If true I hope that the boy's development was the first concern as it always has been in the past. Once again if true
So why not just form your own club if you are not going to play premier and just play MRL.
all it takes is submitting a proposal to the MYSA saying you hope to have 4 teams because as it was proven this year that you don't really have to have 4 teams according to the way the rules are written. It onlys says you have to state that you hope to have 4 teams to gain the waiver required by the MYSA.
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