10:03, I don't know this coach very well but, I do know he is a quality coached based on what I've seen and heard. It's clear not just any coach can get a team to this level. He is one of te better REV coaches
10:03, I don't know this coach personally but based on what I heard he is a great coach. Actually one of the better REV coaches. It's clear you can't get to this level without a great coach. Give him some credit.
I love it. When a team wins its because they are good, but if someone beats them it's a "fluke". Rev beat PL 1-0 in the championship game of the tournament. A 1-0 win is a 1-0 win. Period. Oh wait, maybe there was "injuries" ....
10:03 I don't know this coach personally but I have heard great things about him. It clearly took a great coach to get them to this high of a level. Based on my outside knowledge he's one of the better REV coaches
12:03 i dont know this coach personally but, i have only heard great things about him. Its clear that at this level they are all good coaches give him some credit for taking them to this level. He must be one of the beter REV coaches
What was the point of that post. If you don't like someone or (in your opinion) they aren't what you consider "good" stay silent. There is nothing to be gained by being so negative.
12:03 There is no need to be negative in your posts. Your OPINION of someone's coaching ability should be kept to yourself. Apparently he is doing ok. I am sure he is helping many of the players develop (whether you think so or not). Think of how your statement might hurt young players and their teams. By the way, I have nothing to do with the REV club.
Both groups have numerous well-coached, talented teams. The likelihood of them winning both age groups is slim. Could they both win, of course As I said, both groups are very balanced. They re more likely to win 13s than 15s I would say.
The current MTA 15's went to the finals at 13. At 14 they went to the semi's but lost to PL. Now don't everyone groan, but there were lots of injuries. They upgraded with a couple of players and a goalie. They've beaten the MTA 16's on numerous occasions and tied the 17's. They played 15 ECNL 0-0 for most of a game only to give up a goal very late in the game. PL is good and so is Tonka. Depending on the day, it could go to any 3 of those teams. It will be a fun age to follow!
Yes, we the 15 parents are a nutty group and we love it that way! It's only because our age group, and this is across all the main clubs, are currently the most talented group of girls in the state of MN!
Dear Nutty Parent, With the 15 ECNL team out (who are clearly the best 15 in MN, they proved it by playing up a year with the best 16's in the state) This age group now has parity in the league. Please do confuse that with an elite status. The teams didnt dramatically get better, the best just picked up and left you. At the 16's level, some teams regularly play/scrimmage some 17 teams and do well. Doesn't quailfy them as the best age group either. Wake up
Interesting the criticism of Rev coaches. No matter how you look at it, Rev is in the hunt to win state cup at U13, U15, and U16. I'm not saying they will win all those, but they are real contenders. NO other club in MN other than MTA is in that position. I assure you it's not something in the water - Coaching has a LOT to do with it and they are very good.
7:28am. No one mentioned MTA in the previous post about 15's. Yes, the MTA ECNL 15 team is very good. But not everyone plays or wants to play MTA ECNL. I'm guessing you're an ECNL parent who thinks that no other team has talent if they don't play for you? You're wrong! The 15's as a whole are a very strong group. By the way, I'm from Tonka. State Cup could go to hopefully Tonka or maybe PL, MTA or REV.
Dont be fooled by one goal MTA ECNL team victories. The fact is the U15 MTA ECNL team has never lost to a Minnesota team in this age group. Not once since they were formed atU9. That sounds like clear domination to me.
Summer state champions is very watered down. You have no premier teams playing. So yes, it was great you won, but again it was summer state! I'll have to agree with 4:00pm, REV you did not advance out of bracket play in state cup last year! Good luck this year!
You're funny 4:36pm. Go to MYSA standings from last year. Yes, teams did beat PL, not just the chosen REV! Middle of May we'll know if REV is blowing smoke or they are legit. My guess, you won't make it out of bracket play and you'll barely win enough games in league play to retain your premier status.
Cottage Grove beat Tonka in the 15's at a tournament in Rockford. Cottage Grove went on to win finals. I believe they are now a serious contender for State Cup!
So since CG has never beat PL, than there's no way they will ever ever ever beat them? Things change PL people! One season doesn't make for a lifetime of success! Get over yourselves! You're overrated this year!
Anyone know anything about MTA's U19 team registered to play state cup at the U18 level? Is MTA reassembling their U18 age eligible players coming back from college along with their ECNL players?
If yes they will win the age group hands down, SSM U18 might be the only team that could give them any sort of challenge.
12:14am. Actually I love the humor. Because someone, I assume from PL, said that CG has NEVER beat PL. So NEVER was a bold statement! Besides CG tied PL last year.
So I see that the U15 Tonka team tied St. Croix and lost to Cottage Grove in Rockford.
What was all they hype about Tonka winning State Cup? Not taking anything away from St. Croix (which is a good team), but why can't a premier team beat a C1 team?
It depends what you mean by dominated. Most of the teams in this group have pretty close games but PL consistently wins a bit more than the others. Anything can happen any day between two teams.
Watched Tonka 15s play Cottage Grove in Illinois. They won't win a tough game because they can't win the ball in the midfield. The midfield is slow and doesn't fight for balls. Cottage Grove looked good especially their defense. I don't think they can win State Cup but they will give some teams some trouble.
What was wrong with CG 15's this weekend in Des Moines? They lost to Burnsville 3-0. They lost all three games 3-0! And last weekend they beat Tonka and win the finals in Rockford.
MTA coaches usually coach a team for two years, so the 14 coach is most likely moving on to a different team. The parents and players couldn't be happier!
To the nutty parent who posted 81 random messages thinking the blog was broken. Your computer or browser is broken. You have been reported to blogger.com and your ISP for terms of service violation. You will be contact by your ISP in the next 60 days and will likely have your service disconnect. Based on your ISP location, you are a South or SE metro club parent. Please do not post on this blog anymore.
If MTA is supposed to be the "top girls program" in the state, why is it they cannot attract/retain any decent coaches on the girl's side?
MTA's ECNL teams have ONE decent coach - DS at U15. As stated above the U14 coach is a dud. DA at U16 has not been able to get that team to perform, even though they have the best concentration of talent of all of the MTA teams. U17's don't even have a coach now and have a team parent helping out. U18's have gone from a national contender to the bottom of their bracket.
Why pay that kind of cash for sub-par coaching? Bringing back AK is the best they can come up with?
7:59 - please explain. Self coached? Where is the coach for the 17s and 18s. That is ridiculous if those coaches are so spread out that they have to stay home for state cup?
I feel bad for the girls on the U17 ECNL team that is going to Indy. They are traveling with only 13 or 14 players and no coach. If the players that are not traveling are injured then that is understandable but I heard that is not the case.
13 or 14 players is plenty. The coach thing is a bit hard to take since they are presumably getting paid but really, at this age they should know how to play and adjust to changes in the game as they occur.
The false statements that people are making about MTA is both annoying and just plain stupid. To those of you writing about MTA that have no idea what you are talking about, I have some advice STOP! For starters, MTA is less than half the $5500 you state. And yes, ECNL is the BEST league in the country and there is a reason MTA is the only Elite club in MN. Amazing how jealousy clouds the facts.
I won't comment on the current state of MTA, but I would offer that id2 and ECNL has replaced ODP as the wave of the future. The id2 camp is free other than airfare, and the top coaches will be at the ECNL national events. If interested, take a minute to watch these videos. Or, better yet, if you have a young daughter who has the passion, have her watch it.
It is a shame to see MTA abusing their status as the only Minnesota club in the ECNL. Players will inevitably continue to come for the level of competition and exposure, but if MTA continues to offer marginal coaching and a lack of player development focus in return, Minnesota will never move forward as a soccer state. Hate to say it, but I think MA had the right idea originally, and clearly his successors don’t have the same vision.
The only hope is for another Minnesota club to aspire for acceptance into the ECNL and create some competition to raise the bar. Kansas City and other metro areas smaller than the Twin Cities have multiple clubs in the ECNL, so it can be done. SCV seems to be doing some good things, maybe there is hope.
I just played REV 15's and PL 15's and the contrast in styles will be the telling point in any game. PL comes at you from start to finish with an attack, attack, attack mindset. The beat FIRE 3-0, on free kick, penalty kick and corner kick. Nothing in the run of play. But had tons of chances.
REV has more control, composure and less a physical style. The play well and create many chances themselves.
I have yet to see MTA 2nd team play this year, but SCV & CTG are both strong teams and will give anyone a good game. I bet all semi finals and finals will be 1 goal games regardless of who makes it.
And I think FIRE has a chance against CNS, MAH and TNK to win the weakest bracket in the Age group.
U14 Girls Quick Look after 2 games: Group A - MTA must beat PSA or PSA is thru Group B - MUS looks to go thru based on WDB performance to date Group C - NMT is thru will probably play MUS Group D - Burnsville is thru based on wins over EAG & DKT will play winner of Group A (PSA or MTA) Centennial will not repeat 2011 success.
Both MTA teams looked good today. MPB hold off Rev 0-0 tie.That was a surprise until I was told MPB team is actually the old Thunder West team. All this talk about Rev at 13s, not sure the play was as good as the built up expectations for them? Looks like a MTA tournament at 13s, MTNKA did not even have a strong shot on goal.
Is this the MN blog or the REV?MTA blog? For all the promotion on this site of the REV teams, have they even had a State Cup winner on the girls side recently? The 13s managed a tie with the weakest team in their pool (they still can advance but will have to win out against 2 solid teams in EP/SCV). The 16s get to play the watered down MTA (non ECNL) team and should probably compete with EP for the final. That said, that group is the 'favorite' every year and never win. Decent club for sure, but over-hyped/under-delivered.
2:37 There is no chance of another MN club joining the ECNL. The league is not going to expand in region 2. The smaller market you mentioned could not support two clubs, that is why Blue Valley and KCFC are merging.
2:37 - Wouldn't be too quick to assume there is not other chance of a MN club joining ENCL. Seems obvious that if I was US Soccer and I have seen the success of the boys hockey program( National Champs) girls hockey program, now boys soccer program USSDA, Shattuck would be the next choice for ECNL in MN. If the school gets funding behind the girls like they have the other three programs what better situation for women's soccer than a full time, dome enclosed, year round soccer academy? Could be a few years away to fill out the age groups, but I have studied their hockey model for my son and it is just a matter of time before the girls soccer program is next to build for ECNL. Competition needed for the Elite in the state and gives the girls another needed option, no other club has the infrastructure to support ECNL.
No way SSM gets in the ECNL, they cannot field teams for every age U14 to U18 and that is mandatory to be included in the league. Right now they can't even field enough for two teams, it's a pipe dream to think they will get to 5 teams anytime soon. Do you really think a parent is going to send their 14/15 year old daughter to boarding school to play soccer, not enough crazies out there.
Maybe they should start with trying to win a state cup title before you dream of the ECNL.
Who is the top team on the girls side any age left in the state? Is it the u17 ECNL Thunder girls? They have a pretty good size group of all-state and D1 commits. At best they look like a mid tier ECNL team. Is there any real strong teams emerging in the younger levels that reasonably have a chance at regional success?
MU U12 girls playing U13 this season hold promise but too young to know how they will turn out athletically or team wise. They do play good soccer. There is a team in the north metro, same age group, that plays good soccer as well. Problem at every age is lack of consolidation. U13, U14 = no consolidated talent. U15 ECNL team is good and talent more consolidated than other years but still no where near where it needs to be to compete regionally with the top 2-3 teams consistently.
Until talent can be consolidated more effectively on the girls side MN will have a team every 5 years or so that has a chance as they move through the age levels and a team every 2 years that has a good run at one age level but cannot repeat YoY.
modification to prior post. The U15ECNL team is competing competitively in the region with the 2 of the top 3 (lost 0-1 to the second and 3rd placed teams) have not played Eclipse in ECNL yet.
SCV U-13 team also very strong. Has good chance to advance out of toughest pool in U-13 age group. MTA still favorite to win that age group with their challenger likely out of that SCV,Maplebrook,EP,REV pool.
The blanket statement competing regionally needs to be refined. The ECNL has changed the paradigm. Moving on to USYS regions takes on a new lesser significance with so many of the regions top club teams playing ECNL. Throw in US Club regions and things get even more complicated if not watered down. What about MRL???...
Couldn't agree more on the need for consolidation. How do you get that to happen?
The talent will not consolidate until there is a place (or places) to consolidate the talent. Before players consolidate Clubs in MN need to consolidate. There is no reason, other than politics and crazy parents, for the ever expanding number of clubs in MN YoY. Except that, All kids in MN can play on a "top team" in their club as they can attend (4) tryouts within 20 minutes of their house and if they do not make the "top team" at any of the four their parents will band together with another set of disgruntled parents and start a new club. (This is something MN can control but politics and egos will continue to get in the way).
The next big one on the consolidation list before players will truly consolidate is League consolidation. So long as there is MRL, National league, ECNL, US Club Regionals / Nationals, among others, true consolidation will never occur. Even if ECNL became the un-disputed top league of girls youth soccer we will still lack consolidation in MN as many families cannot afford or will not want the lifestyle of traveling, or having their daughter travel alone heaven forbid, across the great cities of the midwest 4-6 weekends every spring.
So, consolidation is a lost cause in my opinion and everyone will continue the banter that MYSA regionals are watered down, US Club regionals are "up & coming," ECNL is the place to be (even though most MN teams cannot complete within the league currently), the USYS National league is this or that. The only good news is that capitalism is alive and well and plenty of people are making money creating new leagues, tournaments, and clubs. The bad news is that the best players in MN will never train with the best on a consistent basis at any age group. Instead a mix of top players and very good players will be spread across 3-5 teams at each age level and travel to tournaments & leagues far and wide to find "better competition" than they can get locally:-).
Consolidation of talent is fine if the team is willing to evaluate players every 6 months and tell a player and parent that they no longer fit the skill level of that team. The team must be willing to bring new players to replace those that no longer meet the skill level or lack the motivation for growth. Usually those players parents are team managers or active adults who know the scenario and work to have influence. It would be interesting to look at the "super teams" and see what was the attrition each year. Some kids develop early, some late, some slowdown, others improve as long as you can be honest. Each practice on a top flight team in any activity should be viewed as a tryout.
We are in agreement on focusing on the player. For the very best players it would be a benefit to them if the trained year round with one another. The fact is more and more clubs make this outcome less and less likely to happen. The question started with are any MN teams up and coming that look to be able to compete well outside the state. The lack of MNs best coming together on 1-2 teams at each age group is one of the significant reasons MN girls teams for the most part do not compete well outside the state at the highest levels.
When not talking about the best of the best at each age group, I agree, does not matter if there are more or fewer clubs. My nirvana would be that all clubs send their best players to tryouts for a top team at each age group which trains and plays together in non MYSA leagues and tournaments. Would be the best development environment for the best 20 some players at each age group. Will never happen obviously (unless you count ODP which has its own baggage and is USYS/MYSA).
Back to state cup. Good luck to all, may the best teams we have that choose to participate come out the winners and do some damage at regionals.
Agree 5:39, consolidation is not the answer at the state level.
A "mix of top players and very good players will be spread across 3-5 teams at each age level and travel to tournaments & leagues far and wide to find better competition" is much better than one super elite team, which would still travel to tournaments & leagues far and wide to find "better competition."
SCV is a second tier club with scattered teams with talent. Not all the top players are at MTA and Shattuck, but they easily have 85% of them from U15-U18. SCV has the most politics, most over paid coaches and more GOBs than the rest of the tier 2 clubs combined. My opinion of course!
Forgot to mention in my nirvana the clubs in MN would all be required to financially support the top consolidated talent/team at each age group and the team would be zero cost to the participants beyond their normal club fees which they would remain associated with. Clubs could then compete for bragging rights on development capabilities and the number of players they have playing across the consolidated top age level team/group.
Enough dreaming, back to reality, the teams I support are way better than yours...:-)
5:39- maybe true but for the other 345 days a year they are not traveling they (the best of the age group) would have the opportunity to train with one another and improve at a faster rate. In most age groups you can see the best 20 or so players Spread across 3-5 teams. If a single team has 10 of the top 20 at an age group they will dominate in state and those 10 will have a good training environment from a competitive training perspective. The other 10 spread across 2-4 other teams, not such a good training environment for them competitively in practice.
6:33 proof any myth repeated enough will become truth in some people's eyes. That myth only serves a few coaches egos, their pocket books handsomely and feeds into crazy parent ideas.
8:33, what myth are you referring to? Are you suggesting that it is a better training environment for the best talent at each age group to be spread out across many teams? It is no myth that players benefit from training with other players of similar talent level. It is also true that training "up" and "down" talent wise from time to time is beneficial as well.
The best environment for player development would be to have the players in any age group spread out amongst 4-6 teams. They would play each other in league as usual. You could have a select team practice periodically and play select tournaments. This would develop players in a team atmosphere where it isn't "all about me" (actually "all about the parents"). The problem is club hopping by disgruntled parents who think one club or another is beneath them. Sometimes moving is warranted (seriously weak coach, toxic parents). The toxic parent thing is exacerbated by our system that allows people to club hop as soon as they don't get what they want whether it is or isn't good for their child (or the team/club). This system would produce as many if not more players capable of playing at any of the higher levels and for much less financial expenditure.
Disagree with you 10:44. Having the best players at an age group spread our across 4-6 teams is good for the 4-6 clubs and good for the rest of the players on the 4-6 teams that have 2-3 of the top players at age group on the team with them.
It is not best for the top players at age group however. They will play maybe 10 games and 3-5 scrimmages against the other teams in a year. If the top 20ish in each age group were on the same team they would train together 120-150 times per year and benefit from being more challenged in every training session. You are selecting the good of the 4-6 clubs that have those teams and the "non top-tier" players on those teams over what is good for the most talented kids in an age group developmentally.
Not sure how you can say "it would be all about the parents," the top talent may leave a team to join a team with other kids of equal ability sure, in my opinion this is a good thing for all involved! But, the reality is, the majority of kids who move clubs are kids who do not make a top team at club "a" so they move to club "b" where they are able to make the top team so, as you say, mom and dad can tell the neighbors their kiddo plays C1, premier, is on the top team at XYZ club etc....
Your view that the top players benefit from being spread out across different teams is not supported by any soccer federation in the world, including ours. You will need a new argument.
Disclosure on my comment above, I do NOT have a kid that would be considered by any objective coach to be in the Top 20 of their age group. No horse in the race, but I would like to see the clubs really put t actions behind their marketing and put forth their best players to play together on a team at age group (2yr groupings if I had my way) to better develop the top talent in the state on the girls side. The exhaust from this action would be a reduction in noise and negativity from the parents as no one could claim to be "the best." All arguments thereafter would be for second best and not many people like to argue and spit venom for the rights to second best team in the State at age group.
Why would there be less training with the players on different teams? They all would train regularly. Also, the consolidation of players hasn't resulted in any more players going on to higher levels. Really, it has been about the same as before the pooling of players.
Is the consolidation the problem, or the coaching the problem. I have watched groups of players with great athletic ability never reach their potential because of some terrible coaching. "Toxic" parents may be a function of inept coaching ? who knows, every situation is unique. Girls soccer is getting many/most of the top athletes so it can't only be blamed on the lack of consistant talent, all sports have that issue. The lack of a group of good coaches may be a bigger issue. Remember most of the coaches in MN that are from MN and played the game as a youth are either quite young, or were second tier athletes when growing up. Soccer is not even close to a first tier sport for boys today ( hockey, basketball,footbal)not to mention what it was like 15-25 years ago. the European/south American coaches were often the top tier athletes within their high schools etc. as soccer(Futbol) was/is the primary sport for boys in those countries.
Next question is : where are the strong women coaches? Many top athletes played soccer, I would say today that soccer is the number one sport for top female youth athletes.
Well, I see the problem of club hopping as big. All it takes is one or two athletes to leave a team and either others leave or the team is severely weakened. Most of these teams would be very, very good if everyone would stay put. Down the line the teams and individuals would be fine. It happened in our family back in the day. We would have stayed put but others left (for no real improvement individually or team wise. Our preference was to stay and tried hard to do so.
The point being made is that the top players would train together, as a group, 120 - 150 times per year versus against each other in games 10-15 times per year. This would be a better development environment for those players as they would not show up at practice 3-times per week and be the best 1-3 players on the field every time.
Your second point makes no sense, there has not been consolidation to this point in girls soccer in MN.
11:32 - You believe the best player on XYZ should stay on team XYZ as in the end they will develop as a player at the same rate regardless of the peer training environment they are in? I disagree. Again good for the team, the club, not best for the top player developmentally. You can argue it is not good for the teammates if the best player stays as well as they are never pushed to be the difference maker when the star is around. Some teams actually improve after the best player moves on as the other players step up, gain confidence, and take a bigger individual role in the teams success.
Hockey was used as an example as an example of a successful system. I may be wrong but it is my understanding that in hockey they must play for their community club. there are opportunities to play on select teams in addition to your community club team. Also, having the players spread out in no way limits how much training they can do. I guess I don't get your point in this regard.
Wow. You're all whining about a problem that doesn't exist. The best players get noticed regardless of where they are. "Tier 2-non-USSDA/ECNL" SCV just had nearly an entire team of girls commit to D1 scholarships, and numerous boys have gone D1 in recent years.
If your kid stinks, stop whining. If your kid doesn't stink, get off your computer and start getting him/her noticed.
No experience in the hockey world to draw comparisons from, sorry. That said, I do not think the model you outline is possible in today's soccer club structure.
Today, If you play for club XYZ you cannot also play on another team outside the club (except as a guest player). A few years ago you could actually play on two teams (club team and tournament team not associated with your club as an example) as most clubs only secured MYSA passes for their players which allowed players to be registered with US club outside of the MYSA club they were with. Now a majority of clubs secure both MYSA and US club cards for their players as to prevent the player from playing elsewhere on a tournament only team, per the example.
Outside of ODP I do not know of any "select team" opportunities that clubs would allow their players to play on.
Spreading out top talent does not limit the amount of training they can do. It limits amount of training the top talent does as a group does together.
??? for the soccer masterminds. Would you all prefer 1 super strong team and 10 great top class division 1 girls players.
or
4-7 'good' teams that all are competitive with eachother and develop 40-60 division 1 and 2 players.
I contend when we have had a top team like the original Tsunami Sota team that others teams decide there is no point in trying to compete, train less, play less tournaments/showcases and lower the expectations of the players and teams.
I think the goal of all of these clubs should be to actually have competitive teams in premier and C1 meaning 6-12 teams that can play out of state and regionally and be competitive. Play quality and attractive soccer and find some wins along the way.
Also, for those thinking they would like to be like the academies in Europe. It wouldn't be the way you think. Club Soccer there takes a dim view of club jumping and so on.
Not sure I agree with the “MA blew it” post. He had/has his vocal detractors across MN, but most people or organizations who focus on providing development options to the more serious or more talented athletes do. MN has ECNL and USDA in large part because MN has MTA, and without MA, there would have been no MTA.
That some of you still blather on about him only goes to show the impact the man made.
Though he is clearly out of the club game, my belief is that MN club soccer lost a valuable asset. The girls game will never be the same, and MTA is currently at risk of losing ground to other clubs at the age group Abboud once patrolled.
He legacy lives on though, and in every player or family who chooses MTA as their home. He has moved on. Maybe some of you should as well.
There are many good coaches spread throughout many MN clubs. Maybe it's time you look inward and figure out why you don't feel there are any good coaches? Maybe it's you?
"State cup brackets suck. Burnsville and North Metro do not deserve to be in semi finals at U14. Rev, Centennial, MTA, TRV are all better than them"
Just your opinion. Each of the teams you criticize have wins in the past against these teams. Also, remember that some of the kids on these teams might be reading what you put on here.
Question for the day: In the U-13 game last night between EP and Maplebrook Two of the Maplebrook players did not bring their alternate jersey to the game, Maplebrook was required to change but because two kids did not have their alternate the Maplebrook coach asked the EP coach if his kids had their alternates to which the EP coach replied yes but also said he refused to change to the alternate dark jersey. Two kids from Maplebrook had to sit out the game because of THEIR mistake. Question is: Do you believe the EP coach acted properly ? Is this playing within the spirit of good sportsmanship?
IMO If this were my team and because the weather was not real hot ( they had to change to alternate dark ) I would have been willing to change. Not very cut throat on my part I know. I see other side of this , It is State Cup, they should know better but my thoughts are more in line with letting the kids play. I would hope for the same courtesy if my team needed help.
Maybe it's not playing with good sportsmanship, but a rule is a rule. I can see someone refusing and the weather was hot last night. Staying in light colored jersey's could make a difference. I probably wouldn't have changed.
The MB coach is somewhat of a ---, so I could see him doing the same thing to the other team!
Maplebrook coach is a parent coach. If you're playing C2 or C3 than parent coaches are great. C1 or above, give it up and let someone else coach your kid.
Tilsen, your view is that that top 15-20 players should be spread out across 4-6 teams to create the best development environment for players 21-100 at a given age group. My view is that we should provide the best development environment possible to our top 20 players if they are interested which would be having them train with one another as often as possible.
Difference of view and we will not sway one another.
8:00 Like any other general comment, you are right except for when you are wrong. Agree most times a contracted coach is better than a parent coach but have seen several incidences where a parent coach (well qualified) has done a great job with Premier level teams. I also have seen several contracted coaches who aren't worth a hill of beans. Every situation is unique and needs to be addressed individually.
Not true on the teams I am thinking of, actually the other way around. These kids were two of the best on the team. Agree with you however that at lower ages/class your point is accurrate.
Yeah. Okay. I'm sure the other teams are shaking in their boots over North Metro girls and Burnsville reading the blog. Truth is, they didn't and couldn't beat those teams. They may get one here or there, but they wouldn't make it out of the bracket if they were in the same one.
I think the rule is dumb in the first place. Why should kids have to bring extra jerseys just in case. Home team is light or dark and away team is dark or light. MAKE THE RULE so everyone knows instead of playing stupid games and have kids miss out on playing because of being kids and forgetting.
Simple rule would be ALL HOME TEAMS WHERE LIGHT COLOR JERSEY AND ALL AWAY TEAMS WEAR DARK. Or visa versa. K. I. S. S.
"Yeah. Okay. I'm sure the other teams are shaking in their boots over North Metro girls and Burnsville reading the blog. Truth is, they didn't and couldn't beat those teams. They may get one here or there, but they wouldn't make it out of the bracket if they were in the same one."
Do you really know the records amongst these teams? (I don't think you do)
"Do you really know the records amongst these teams? (I don't think you do)"
5/3/12 12:54 PM
Prove me wrong. I don't think you know either. Mostly new teams as well and the strong got stronger. The only chance NMetro or Bville will have to play them is at State or a tourny this year. Teams change from year to year, but I predict Bville and NMetro will get beat by PSA and MU. Centennial, TRV and MTA are all teams that are very close in talent and I think Rev were right there as well. Also mostly premiere teams who beat them last year. SOOOOO What is the argument? They ARE as good? I guess we will find out, but playing against st. croix and woodbury to get through a bracket doesn't build a lot of confidence. Just saying... the younger MTA team beat them out last year. LOL. Good Luck because I love underdogs.
can't believe they removed post criticizing Woodbury Soccer Club.
5/3/12 12:13 PM
I think the critisism is probably acceptable but not the swear word you had in your post. So saying that the Woodbury soccer club is sinking due to the poor management of DOC and select parent group is fine, stating that they &*(*&^ things up got you erased.... FYI
I posted the original question that said 'what is the single best club team right now' on the girls side and it went off into a spiral (good dialogue though). I dont have kids in MTA but I love the idea of ECNL and MTA's involvement. That's what Thunder should be, a club for elite players to train and compete with other Elite players. The beef has always been they have a host of c2/c1 quality players as well.
"I posted the original question that said 'what is the single best club team right now' on the girls side and it went off into a spiral (good dialogue though). I dont have kids in MTA but I love the idea of ECNL and MTA's involvement. That's what Thunder should be, a club for elite players to train and compete with other Elite players. The beef has always been they have a host of c2/c1 quality players as well."
5/3/12 2:00 PM
Thunder doesn't have a "HOST" of C2 players, dude. If they do take them they usually are good athletes that show potential for development. Many good C1 players aren't much different than premiere or ECNL. Its technical stuff that separates them... maybe stuff that can be taught. Problem with ECNL at MTA is they truly aren't any better than top MRL teams and you pay big $.
I would like to hear more about this EP vs Maplebrrok situation. Did the EP team players really have all their dark uniforms? If so, what the EP coach did is disgusting and embarrassing. I am very competitive but I would never allow my kid to play for a coach who would make that decision. This reflects very badly on the entire EP club. In the end it hurts the kids. Sadly, these things have a way of coming back to haunt a team. Very disappointing this happened in Mn soccer.
5/3 - Agree 100%. It was 80 degrees, the sun was low and getting lower in the sky and partly cloudy, a dark jersey was not going to be a disadvantage to anyone last night.
Unbelievable that a coach would force 2 players out of the game because they forgot their jersey's with a refusal to have his team change.......Nice win coach. Winning at all costs is a great lesson to teach 12 and 13 year old girls.
Spare me the "teach the kids some responsibility" argument on this one and the "jersey would have overheated the players"
Apologies if EP did not have all their alternate kits as I am going on the word of a poster on this blog that they did. I do not know for fact they did.
I would like to thank the blogger who first pointed out the Maplebrook/EP situation from State Cup. These type of ridiculous decisions need to be pointed out and the adults need to be held accountable. The Kids learned a clear life lesson of what NOT to do!
10:36 - Really, two bad apple's (your opinion) does not make a unjust decision justifiable by one of them.
Nice logic. The EP girls learn a terrible life lesson, and two on MB team get benched by the EP coaches decision, and their poor planning, in one of the biggest soccer games of their young lives. Wait, but it is OK because in your opinion the other coach was an arse so HE deserved it. It is not about the MB coach my friend.
I don't know what I would do in this situation but why is this rule in place? What other rules can be "stretched"? I would have probably let the girls play but then again where does it stop? Also, too much is made of the idea that dark jerseys are too hot. New fabrics make this a red herring.
I do not have anything to do with either EP or MB, my kid is 17, in a different club.
But really why did the question even come up? The coach should have never been asked to change in the first place. They were not benched by the decision of the EP coach, they were benched because in their poor planning they could not follow the rules of the tournament. The rules are made to be followed, people should be responsible to follow and accountable when they don't. Bending rules teaches kids that the rules do not matter - because no one should feel the sting and be accountable for their actions. Yeah the kids/parents screwed up - but I bet that is a life lesson those kids will never forget. Sports do provide life lessons - if handled right, sports help develop responsible adults. It is a game, there will be more BIG games to be played.
Years ago one of our better players forgot her uniform and her parents thought - well, then she sits, lesson learned (it was her responsibility to have her bag packed with what she needed). To this day we all remember and think the coach screwed up because he made everyone else on the team change (yes, everyone else brought all uniforms). To the coach it was about the win, to the parents it was about teaching their child responsibility to the team.
This will never be resolved by opinions, there will always be people who think kids should never feel the hurt for their actions, others think - life lesson. It is a big divide among parents.
It's OK in my opinion because they followed the rules. The real life lesson is to the girls who forgot their jerseys. Show up at big event unprepared and you may not get to do what you wanted to. Great lesson with little real consequence. This is about the equivalent of the dog ate my paper and the teacher won't let me turn it in late. I hope if these girls ever have to answer the question why they didn't get to play EP at State Cup they say because we forgot our jersey, not because the other team wouldn't change for us.
The EP coach did what he thought was best for his team. Say he had approached the team and said we need to change (which in the spirit of the game he should have)and the question "why?" comes up. The obvious answer is "because I am the coach and I said so", to avoid any drama before the game. With the moral lesson of why we changed to come after the game. He chose not to that and didn't have to, simply by following the rules.
I don't think the Maplebrook coach is an arse. I know he benched a whole team in the USA Cup by taking a forfeit. He did what was best for his team. The lesson to the other team is don't be in two events where there may be a schedule conflict (even though the weather was involved; not to mention the whole MYSA-USA Cup problem). In the spirit of the game he should have probably waited and played the game. He didn't and life goes on. I hope the girls on the other team think we didn't get to play in the semi's at USA Cup because we had a state game, not the other team took a forfeit.
Change the stupid rules for home/away jerseys. IF you can avoid having to "teach life lessons" and hurting peoples feelings by changing the rules so they are easier to abide by, then do it. There are so many instances where kids/parents forget to bring the second jersey and it isn't teaching a life lesson. That's just dumb. Games at 8:00 am and you were rushing out the door and forgot or once, my kid packed it, then was looking for something and it fell out in the hotel. Make it clear what jersey the teams are to wear by HOME and AWAY colors. Dark for HOME and LIGHT for away. Not difficult. The team who shows up with the wrong color then has to change or not play. Simple.
10:02am. In soccer LIGHT is for HOME and DARK is for AWAY. Since you are unclear on the proper attire for home and away, I'm thinking this must have happened to you. Although, I do agree with you just make it mandatory on what jersey should be worn for home/away games. This way we won't have issues. But, I also agree with the EP coach a rule is a rule and they shouldn't have been asked to change. Too many people in society today think that rules don't apply to them and they can bend them. It's only soccer, but some girls learned a lesson this week.
Once the (2) MB girls were without their alternate kits of course the EP coach should have been asked if his team had all alternates and, if so, would he agree to change. Your "rules are rules" argument applies if the alternate course, in this case having the away team change kits instead of the home team, breaks a rule or is illegal. It does not provided the away coach agrees.
Have you or your kids every changed kits as the away team? It happens 1-2 times per year across the (3) teams my kids play on. 100% of the time the away team accommodates if they all have their second kits in the bag. I have never seen a away team refuse to change, that was able to, if it meant the other team would sit players!
It is not as black & white as you outline. Each individual that had an influence over the decisions and outcomes made in the situation is responsible for their own decisions & actions.
The (2) kids - that now seem to have played? 1. Started the chain of events by their lack of responsibility. The consequence being that they may not play as the decision was now out of their control.
2. The (2) kids parents - It seems from your message you would have benched (or wanted to bench if you could) your kid if they were one of the two MB girls forgetting the jersey even if the EP coach would have agreed to switch kits no rules were broken. To your point, many differing parenting styles and I would not do the same.
3. The EP coach, based on the scenario he was presented with, had a decision to make. Change kits (which would, at the time allow the two MB players to participate) or not to change kits, (at the time of the decision, taking (2) MB players out of the game). I am not a mind reader but his decision was most likely not based on anything but gaining advantage. 1) He was not trying to teach two kids he did not know from the other team about personal responsibility. 2) heat was not an issue, 3) Do not think EP U13s believe their light kits bring good luck.
You cannot defend the decision the EP coach made. He would not have been asked to change except for at the time it looked like (2) MB girls would not be able to play. The girls finding kits (parent driving fast from somewhere most likely) enabling them to join the game does not make the EP coach's decision any better.
You can argue he should not have been put in a position to have to make the decision in the first place, but he was. That is a lesson worth teaching kids. You will be put in positions that are difficult and come at you out of the blue. The decision will be hard and what is 'right" may not be what serves your desires at the time.
I don't see MTA having success this weekend primarily because at this age group their top teams are ECNL (15-17). The pressure is on the perennials favorites that under achieve (ie REV at u16) IMO. I predict over the weekend, PL at u15, Rev at u16 (maybe EP) and the winner of BVL/Way at u17 will emerge as the favorites.
PL at 15 is not the team they were last year. They'll probably make it out of their easy bracket, but I would be surprised if they make it past bracket D favorite Tonka.
5/4 at 8:30 - I also have a U17 player, and I have to agree with the lesson learned. Several years ago, I had my daughter at a Footholde or some other training event on a Friday night. She was not focused and playing around, and the trainer cautioned her twice. I saw her do it a third time, and I walked out on the field and apologized to the trainer, then took her home. I was NOT going to have her waste my time, her time, and the time of the other kids there. It never happened again, and she will be playing D-1 next year. Not a State Cup game, but I wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing. If it was truly the responsibility of the girls to pack their gear, then consequences are appropriate. If the parent packed the game, then I would think leniency might be considered. Best of luck to all teams at State Cup!
5/4 at 8:30 - I also have a U17 player, and I have to agree with the lesson learned. Several years ago, I had my daughter at a Footholde or some other training event on a Friday night. She was not focused and playing around, and the trainer cautioned her twice. I saw her do it a third time, and I walked out on the field and apologized to the trainer, then took her home. I was NOT going to have her waste my time, her time, and the time of the other kids there. It never happened again, and she will be playing D-1 next year. Not a State Cup game, but I wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing. If it was truly the responsibility of the girls to pack their gear, then consequences are appropriate. If the parent packed the game, then I would think leniency might be considered. Best of luck to all teams at State Cup!
929 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 929 Newer› Newest»TC Fire team was ok. PL was missing a couple of key players due to injuries.
The players that REV picked up are average at best. They may win their bracket, but I'm still going with CG.
TC Fire is ok. PL had some key players out due to injuries last year.
REV only picked up average at best players for this.
Maybe REV has a shot to make it out of their bracket, but I still think CG will take it.
REV beating PL was fluke!
12:03 - not sure where you are coming from, but HE IS one of the best coaches in the metro area. No question about it.
10:03,
I don't know this coach very well but, I do know he is a quality coached based on what I've seen and heard. It's clear not just any coach can get a team to this level. He is one of te better REV coaches
10:03,
I don't know this coach personally but based on what I heard he is a great coach. Actually one of the better REV coaches. It's clear you can't get to this level without a great coach. Give him some credit.
Agreed 10:03am
What age group has the best chance to be successful at Regions?
I love it. When a team wins its because they are good, but if someone beats them it's a "fluke". Rev beat PL 1-0 in the championship game of the tournament. A 1-0 win is a 1-0 win. Period. Oh wait, maybe there was "injuries" ....
10:03
I don't know this coach personally but I have heard great things about him. It clearly took a great coach to get them to this high of a level. Based on my outside knowledge he's one of the better REV coaches
12:03
i dont know this coach personally but, i have only heard great things about him. Its clear that at this level they are all good coaches give him some credit for taking them to this level. He must be one of the beter REV coaches
REV vs. cottage grove what do you think?
Cottage Grove because the goalie will be at state cup!
Even if 15 REV's make it out of bracket play, do you really think they'll beat MTA (assuming MTA makes it out of bracket play)?
What was the point of that post. If you don't like someone or (in your opinion) they aren't what you consider "good" stay silent. There is nothing to be gained by being so negative.
I'm thinking that 8:48am must be talking about 12:03pm post because 8:19am doesn't saying anything about anyone specific.
12:03
There is no need to be negative in your posts. Your OPINION of someone's coaching ability should be kept to yourself. Apparently he is doing ok. I am sure he is helping many of the players develop (whether you think so or not). Think of how your statement might hurt young players and their teams.
By the way, I have nothing to do with the REV club.
Thanks
REV is turning out to be a top club.
Time will tell 12:46pm.
The have many talented coaches...you must have an axe to grind?
Rev 15 are good, but probably not a serious contender for the championship.
Someone likes to posts about themselves on this blog
There are very few good coaches in MN, but a ton of coaches who have huge egos.
Can we not argue about coaches and get to what really matters... State cup! Predictions??
13 - REV
14 - PSA
15 - PL
16 - EDP
17 - BVL
18 - SCV
MTA won't win one final.
13-MTA
14-PSA
15-TONKA
16-REV
17-BVL
18-SCV
No club wins more than one!
Tonka won't beat PL at U15
MTA will win two 13's and 15's.
MTA will win neither 13s nor 15s.
Why 2:12pm. Reason? They're well coached, they have a talented group of girls. Explain your reasoning, we would love to hear it?
Both groups have numerous well-coached, talented teams. The likelihood of them winning both age groups is slim. Could they both win, of course As I said, both groups are very balanced. They re more likely to win 13s than 15s I would say.
The current MTA 15's went to the finals at 13. At 14 they went to the semi's but lost to PL. Now don't everyone groan, but there were lots of injuries.
They upgraded with a couple of players and a goalie. They've beaten the MTA 16's on numerous occasions and tied the 17's. They played 15 ECNL 0-0 for most of a game only to give up a goal very late in the game. PL is good and so is Tonka. Depending on the day, it could go to any 3 of those teams. It will be a fun age to follow!
The sidelines for this age group should be fun also...there's some nutty parents from these teams
Lots of clubs have plenty of good coaches. What does your coaching resume' look like?
Yes, we the 15 parents are a nutty group and we love it that way! It's only because our age group, and this is across all the main clubs, are currently the most talented group of girls in the state of MN!
Dear Nutty Parent,
With the 15 ECNL team out (who are clearly the best 15 in MN, they proved it by playing up a year with the best 16's in the state) This age group now has parity in the league. Please do confuse that with an elite status. The teams didnt dramatically get better, the best just picked up and left you.
At the 16's level, some teams regularly play/scrimmage some 17 teams and do well. Doesn't quailfy them as the best age group either.
Wake up
Interesting the criticism of Rev coaches. No matter how you look at it, Rev is in the hunt to win state cup at U13, U15, and U16. I'm not saying they will win all those, but they are real contenders. NO other club in MN other than MTA is in that position. I assure you it's not something in the water - Coaching has a LOT to do with it and they are very good.
7:28am. No one mentioned MTA in the previous post about 15's. Yes, the MTA ECNL 15 team is very good. But not everyone plays or wants to play MTA ECNL. I'm guessing you're an ECNL parent who thinks that no other team has talent if they don't play for you? You're wrong!
The 15's as a whole are a very strong group. By the way, I'm from Tonka. State Cup could go to hopefully Tonka or maybe PL, MTA or REV.
The MTA ENCL team won by one goal last year in the state cup final. I don't believe their presence would change the parity of this group by much.
Dont be fooled by one goal MTA ECNL team victories. The fact is the U15 MTA ECNL team has never lost to a Minnesota team in this age group. Not once since they were formed atU9. That sounds like clear domination to me.
Rev 15? The same U14 team last year that was C1 and did not make it out of pool play in state cup? I guess time will tell.
MANY clubs have one or two really good chances to advance out of pool play. My guess is Rev will have two. At semi and finals its anyones call.
Yes, REV - the state champions who beat every good team they played last year including prior lake. Anyone else beat pl last year?...
Summer state champions is very watered down. You have no premier teams playing. So yes, it was great you won, but again it was summer state! I'll have to agree with 4:00pm, REV you did not advance out of bracket play in state cup last year! Good luck this year!
You're funny 4:36pm. Go to MYSA standings from last year. Yes, teams did beat PL, not just the chosen REV! Middle of May we'll know if REV is blowing smoke or they are legit. My guess, you won't make it out of bracket play and you'll barely win enough games in league play to retain your premier status.
7:31 - the only team to beat pl in league was mahtomedi, who btw is no longer premier.
Enough rev, MTA and pl talk! What about Tonka, NSSA, and cottage grove? How are they doing this spring?
tonka, nssa and cg have quiet parents...there not NUTS like mta, rev and pl.
tonka is the quiet giant...my prediction to win ( and im not from there)
u15 ECNL team started playing for Bangu at U10 not U9.
rev #1
Cottage Grove beat Tonka in the 15's at a tournament in Rockford. Cottage Grove went on to win finals. I believe they are now a serious contender for State Cup!
15 Semi's
Prior Lake, Cottage Grove, MTN, Tonka.
Prior Lake over Tonka
Cottage Grove over MTN
Cottage Grove beats Prior Lake 2-1 in final.
You do realize that PL hasn't ever lost to CG, right? No dog in the fight.
So since CG has never beat PL, than there's no way they will ever ever ever beat them? Things change PL people! One season doesn't make for a lifetime of success! Get over yourselves! You're overrated this year!
CG and PL did tie 0-0 last year in league play.
CG and PL did tie 0-0 last year in league play.
"so you're sayin' there's a chance!"
Everyone has a chance! Right?
Everyone has a chance! Right?
As much chance as in any soccer game between any two teams.
Anyone know anything about MTA's U19 team registered to play state cup at the U18 level? Is MTA reassembling their U18 age eligible players coming back from college along with their ECNL players?
If yes they will win the age group hands down, SSM U18 might be the only team that could give them any sort of challenge.
The MTA U18 state cup team is a mix of last years white and silver teams.
It will be a SSM vs REV final at 18.
SSM looks like they will dominate U18.
I think rev 16 and 18 have a better chance than the 15 and 13. just an observation.
I like how everyone is counting out Rev 14s, even though they beat PSA 14 two weeks ago and beat MU this winter.
Not that it matters (because it doesn't)), CG beat PL 2-1 in the first round of the U11 state tournament. Hows that for useless information?
12:14am. Actually I love the humor. Because someone, I assume from PL, said that CG has NEVER beat PL. So NEVER was a bold statement! Besides CG tied PL last year.
So I see that the U15 Tonka team tied St. Croix and lost to Cottage Grove in Rockford.
What was all they hype about Tonka winning State Cup? Not taking anything away from St. Croix (which is a good team), but why can't a premier team beat a C1 team?
Yes, CG did beat PL all that time ago but tying isn't beating (last season in which PL won Premier League).
True though, 4 years ago isn't never......
No one said tying was beating, but PL seems to think that they have dominated CG in years past. Which is not true.
It depends what you mean by dominated. Most of the teams in this group have pretty close games but PL consistently wins a bit more than the others. Anything can happen any day between two teams.
It is a slow year for state cup chatter...unless your following U15. It's clear there are plenty of PL, CG, Rev and Tonka parents out there.
Was all the hype previous years a result of mta ecnl?
How about the other ages?
We're still here 1:17pm! This year though, it seems like REV parents have taken the "nutty" crown from MTA!
Watched Tonka 15s play Cottage Grove in Illinois. They won't win a tough game because they can't win the ball in the midfield. The midfield is slow and doesn't fight for balls. Cottage Grove looked good especially their defense. I don't think they can win State Cup but they will give some teams some trouble.
Cottage Grove lost to Mahtomedi (relegated premier team and lost their best player)3-0 in Des Moines yesterday. CG maybe an hot and cold team.
The 15's are now a two horse race - PL vs MTA.
What was wrong with CG 15's this weekend in Des Moines? They lost to Burnsville 3-0. They lost all three games 3-0! And last weekend they beat Tonka and win the finals in Rockford.
U13 MTA wins state cup... hands down easily.
What kind of issues with the U14 MTA ECNL team?
Still 4:12 hear,
I heard they will let the coach go next year and bring in AK.
MTA coaches usually coach a team for two years, so the 14 coach is most likely moving on to a different team. The parents and players couldn't be happier!
To the nutty parent who posted 81 random messages thinking the blog was broken. Your computer or browser is broken. You have been reported to blogger.com and your ISP for terms of service violation. You will be contact by your ISP in the next 60 days and will likely have your service disconnect. Based on your ISP location, you are a South or SE metro club parent. Please do not post on this blog anymore.
If MTA is supposed to be the "top girls program" in the state, why is it they cannot attract/retain any decent coaches on the girl's side?
MTA's ECNL teams have ONE decent coach - DS at U15. As stated above the U14 coach is a dud. DA at U16 has not been able to get that team to perform, even though they have the best concentration of talent of all of the MTA teams. U17's don't even have a coach now and have a team parent helping out. U18's have gone from a national contender to the bottom of their bracket.
Why pay that kind of cash for sub-par coaching? Bringing back AK is the best they can come up with?
All MTA older teams do is scrimmage. How is that developing players??
More important how can that be fun for the players
7:59pm. Sorry, but you are wrong and please watch your language.
What language?
7:59 - please explain. Self coached? Where is the coach for the 17s and 18s. That is ridiculous if those coaches are so spread out that they have to stay home for state cup?
ECNL, like many leagues, does not allow self coaching during league games. Your info is wrong.
I feel bad for the girls on the U17 ECNL team that is going to Indy. They are traveling with only 13 or 14 players and no coach. If the players that are not traveling are injured then that is understandable but I heard that is not the case.
13 or 14 players is plenty. The coach thing is a bit hard to take since they are presumably getting paid but really, at this age they should know how to play and adjust to changes in the game as they occur.
The false statements that people are making about MTA is both annoying and just plain stupid. To those of you writing about MTA that have no idea what you are talking about, I have some advice STOP! For starters, MTA is less than half the $5500 you state. And yes, ECNL is the BEST league in the country and there is a reason MTA is the only Elite club in MN. Amazing how jealousy clouds the facts.
"ECNL is the BEST league in the country".... In your opinion.
11:03 Name a better one?? In your opinion? Nothing is close and that is my opinion.
It is a bunch of showcases with some really good team’s some good teams and a few that attend because their club have to send a team.
Please do not call it a league. You can make the argument that it is a yearlong tournament but it is not a league unless all teams play each other.
"Nothing is close and that is my opinion"...That's what I stated. It is your OPINION.
4/26/12 10:48 AM and 12:34 PM -- Tame down or otherwise you will be removed.
I won't comment on the current state of MTA, but I would offer that id2 and ECNL has replaced ODP as the wave of the future. The id2 camp is free other than airfare, and the top coaches will be at the ECNL national events. If interested, take a minute to watch these videos. Or, better yet, if you have a young daughter who has the passion, have her watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO2xgb_L-kU&feature=BFa&list=PLF6FAC426AB77FACB
It is a shame to see MTA abusing their status as the only Minnesota club in the ECNL. Players will inevitably continue to come for the level of competition and exposure, but if MTA continues to offer marginal coaching and a lack of player development focus in return, Minnesota will never move forward as a soccer state. Hate to say it, but I think MA had the right idea originally, and clearly his successors don’t have the same vision.
The only hope is for another Minnesota club to aspire for acceptance into the ECNL and create some competition to raise the bar. Kansas City and other metro areas smaller than the Twin Cities have multiple clubs in the ECNL, so it can be done. SCV seems to be doing some good things, maybe there is hope.
I just played REV 15's and PL 15's and the contrast in styles will be the telling point in any game. PL comes at you from start to finish with an attack, attack, attack mindset. The beat FIRE 3-0, on free kick, penalty kick and corner kick. Nothing in the run of play. But had tons of chances.
REV has more control, composure and less a physical style. The play well and create many chances themselves.
I have yet to see MTA 2nd team play this year, but SCV & CTG are both strong teams and will give anyone a good game. I bet all semi finals and finals will be 1 goal games regardless of who makes it.
And I think FIRE has a chance against CNS, MAH and TNK to win the weakest bracket in the Age group.
Me thinks MTA still rules =)
Finally, the games begin! I see MTA U14 tied Centennial. Good start for MTA!
U14 Girls Quick Look after 2 games:
Group A - MTA must beat PSA or PSA is thru
Group B - MUS looks to go thru based on WDB performance to date
Group C - NMT is thru will probably play MUS
Group D - Burnsville is thru based on wins over EAG & DKT will play winner of Group A (PSA or MTA)
Centennial will not repeat 2011 success.
Both MTA teams looked good today. MPB hold off Rev 0-0 tie.That was a surprise until I was told MPB team is actually the old Thunder West team. All this talk about Rev at 13s, not sure the play was as good as the built up expectations for them? Looks like a MTA tournament at 13s, MTNKA did not even have a strong shot on goal.
You watched both MTA teams even though they played at the same time? Possibly you might have watched part of each game, correct?
They played on fields next to each other......
Is this the MN blog or the REV?MTA blog? For all the promotion on this site of the REV teams, have they even had a State Cup winner on the girls side recently? The 13s managed a tie with the weakest team in their pool (they still can advance but will have to win out against 2 solid teams in EP/SCV). The 16s get to play the watered down MTA (non ECNL) team and should probably compete with EP for the final. That said, that group is the 'favorite' every year and never win. Decent club for sure, but over-hyped/under-delivered.
Burnsville will not win u17 as their top player/scorer is out. Wayzata will beat them in game 1 and win it all
That MIGHT happen....
2:37 There is no chance of another MN club joining the ECNL. The league is not going to expand in region 2. The smaller market you mentioned could not support two clubs, that is why Blue Valley and KCFC are merging.
Forget about MA 4/27/12 2:37 PM. He had his opportunity and blew it.
2:37 - Wouldn't be too quick to assume there is not other chance of a MN club joining ENCL. Seems obvious that if I was US Soccer and I have seen the success of the boys hockey program( National Champs) girls hockey program, now boys soccer program USSDA, Shattuck would be the next choice for ECNL in MN. If the school gets funding behind the girls like they have the other three programs what better situation for women's soccer than a full time, dome enclosed, year round soccer academy? Could be a few years away to fill out the age groups, but I have studied their hockey model for my son and it is just a matter of time before the girls soccer program is next to build for ECNL. Competition needed for the Elite in the state and gives the girls another needed option, no other club has the infrastructure to support ECNL.
No way SSM gets in the ECNL, they cannot field teams for every age U14 to U18 and that is mandatory to be included in the league. Right now they can't even field enough for two teams, it's a pipe dream to think they will get to 5 teams anytime soon. Do you really think a parent is going to send their 14/15 year old daughter to boarding school to play soccer, not enough crazies out there.
Maybe they should start with trying to win a state cup title before you dream of the ECNL.
Who is the top team on the girls side any age left in the state? Is it the u17 ECNL Thunder girls? They have a pretty good size group of all-state and D1 commits. At best they look like a mid tier ECNL team. Is there any real strong teams emerging in the younger levels that reasonably have a chance at regional success?
SCV is now the best club in the state cup on the girls side. They will win at both U17 and U18, and also have a shot at winning U16 as well.
MU U12 girls playing U13 this season hold promise but too young to know how they will turn out athletically or team wise. They do play good soccer. There is a team in the north metro, same age group, that plays good soccer as well. Problem at every age is lack of consolidation. U13, U14 = no consolidated talent. U15 ECNL team is good and talent more consolidated than other years but still no where near where it needs to be to compete regionally with the top 2-3 teams consistently.
Until talent can be consolidated more effectively on the girls side MN will have a team every 5 years or so that has a chance as they move through the age levels and a team every 2 years that has a good run at one age level but cannot repeat YoY.
modification to prior post. The U15ECNL team is competing competitively in the region with the 2 of the top 3 (lost 0-1 to the second and 3rd placed teams) have not played Eclipse in ECNL yet.
SCV U-13 team also very strong. Has good chance to advance out of toughest pool in U-13 age group. MTA still favorite to win that age group with their challenger likely out of that SCV,Maplebrook,EP,REV pool.
The blanket statement competing regionally needs to be refined. The ECNL has changed the paradigm. Moving on to USYS regions takes on a new lesser significance with so many of the regions top club teams playing ECNL. Throw in US Club regions and things get even more complicated if not watered down. What about MRL???...
Couldn't agree more on the need for consolidation. How do you get that to happen?
What happened to U-13 REV?
The talent will not consolidate until there is a place (or places) to consolidate the talent. Before players consolidate Clubs in MN need to consolidate. There is no reason, other than politics and crazy parents, for the ever expanding number of clubs in MN YoY. Except that, All kids in MN can play on a "top team" in their club as they can attend (4) tryouts within 20 minutes of their house and if they do not make the "top team" at any of the four their parents will band together with another set of disgruntled parents and start a new club. (This is something MN can control but politics and egos will continue to get in the way).
The next big one on the consolidation list before players will truly consolidate is League consolidation. So long as there is MRL, National league, ECNL, US Club Regionals / Nationals, among others, true consolidation will never occur. Even if ECNL became the un-disputed top league of girls youth soccer we will still lack consolidation in MN as many families cannot afford or will not want the lifestyle of traveling, or having their daughter travel alone heaven forbid, across the great cities of the midwest 4-6 weekends every spring.
So, consolidation is a lost cause in my opinion and everyone will continue the banter that MYSA regionals are watered down, US Club regionals are "up & coming," ECNL is the place to be (even though most MN teams cannot complete within the league currently), the USYS National league is this or that. The only good news is that capitalism is alive and well and plenty of people are making money creating new leagues, tournaments, and clubs. The bad news is that the best players in MN will never train with the best on a consistent basis at any age group. Instead a mix of top players and very good players will be spread across 3-5 teams at each age level and travel to tournaments & leagues far and wide to find "better competition" than they can get locally:-).
Consolidation is the last thing soccer needs at the youth level. Focus on the player, not creating super clubs.
Consolidation of talent is fine if the team is willing to evaluate players every 6 months and tell a player and parent that they no longer fit the skill level of that team. The team must be willing to bring new players to replace those that no longer meet the skill level or lack the motivation for growth. Usually those players parents are team managers or active adults who know the scenario and work to have influence. It would be interesting to look at the "super teams" and see what was the attrition each year. Some kids develop early, some late, some slowdown, others improve as long as you can be honest. Each practice on a top flight team in any activity should be viewed as a tryout.
We are in agreement on focusing on the player. For the very best players it would be a benefit to them if the trained year round with one another. The fact is more and more clubs make this outcome less and less likely to happen. The question started with are any MN teams up and coming that look to be able to compete well outside the state. The lack of MNs best coming together on 1-2 teams at each age group is one of the significant reasons MN girls teams for the most part do not compete well outside the state at the highest levels.
When not talking about the best of the best at each age group, I agree, does not matter if there are more or fewer clubs. My nirvana would be that all clubs send their best players to tryouts for a top team at each age group which trains and plays together in non MYSA leagues and tournaments. Would be the best development environment for the best 20 some players at each age group. Will never happen obviously (unless you count ODP which has its own baggage and is USYS/MYSA).
Back to state cup. Good luck to all, may the best teams we have that choose to participate come out the winners and do some damage at regionals.
Agree 5:39, consolidation is not the answer at the state level.
A "mix of top players and very good players will be spread across 3-5 teams at each age level and travel to tournaments & leagues far and wide to find better competition" is much better than one super elite team, which would still travel to tournaments & leagues far and wide to find "better competition."
SCV is a second tier club with scattered teams with talent. Not all the top players are at MTA and Shattuck, but they easily have 85% of them from U15-U18. SCV has the most politics, most over paid coaches and more GOBs than the rest of the tier 2 clubs combined. My opinion of course!
Forgot to mention in my nirvana the clubs in MN would all be required to financially support the top consolidated talent/team at each age group and the team would be zero cost to the participants beyond their normal club fees which they would remain associated with. Clubs could then compete for bragging rights on development capabilities and the number of players they have playing across the consolidated top age level team/group.
Enough dreaming, back to reality, the teams I support are way better than yours...:-)
5:39- maybe true but for the other 345 days a year they are not traveling they (the best of the age group) would have the opportunity to train with one another and improve at a faster rate. In most age groups you can see the best 20 or so players Spread across 3-5 teams. If a single team has 10 of the top 20 at an age group they will dominate in state and those 10 will have a good training environment from a competitive training perspective. The other 10 spread across 2-4 other teams, not such a good training environment for them competitively in practice.
6:33 proof any myth repeated enough will become truth in some people's eyes. That myth only serves a few coaches egos, their pocket books handsomely and feeds into crazy parent ideas.
8:33, what myth are you referring to? Are you suggesting that it is a better training environment for the best talent at each age group to be spread out across many teams? It is no myth that players benefit from training with other players of similar talent level. It is also true that training "up" and "down" talent wise from time to time is beneficial as well.
The best environment for player development would be to have the players in any age group spread out amongst 4-6 teams. They would play each other in league as usual. You could have a select team practice periodically and play select tournaments. This would develop players in a team atmosphere where it isn't "all about me" (actually "all about the parents"). The problem is club hopping by disgruntled parents who think one club or another is beneath them. Sometimes moving is warranted (seriously weak coach, toxic parents). The toxic parent thing is exacerbated by our system that allows people to club hop as soon as they don't get what they want whether it is or isn't good for their child (or the team/club).
This system would produce as many if not more players capable of playing at any of the higher levels and for much less financial expenditure.
Disagree with you 10:44. Having the best players at an age group spread our across 4-6 teams is good for the 4-6 clubs and good for the rest of the players on the 4-6 teams that have 2-3 of the top players at age group on the team with them.
It is not best for the top players at age group however. They will play maybe 10 games and 3-5 scrimmages against the other teams in a year. If the top 20ish in each age group were on the same team they would train together 120-150 times per year and benefit from being more challenged in every training session. You are selecting the good of the 4-6 clubs that have those teams and the "non top-tier" players on those teams over what is good for the most talented kids in an age group developmentally.
Not sure how you can say "it would be all about the parents," the top talent may leave a team to join a team with other kids of equal ability sure, in my opinion this is a good thing for all involved! But, the reality is, the majority of kids who move clubs are kids who do not make a top team at club "a" so they move to club "b" where they are able to make the top team so, as you say, mom and dad can tell the neighbors their kiddo plays C1, premier, is on the top team at XYZ club etc....
Your view that the top players benefit from being spread out across different teams is not supported by any soccer federation in the world, including ours. You will need a new argument.
Disclosure on my comment above, I do NOT have a kid that would be considered by any objective coach to be in the Top 20 of their age group. No horse in the race, but I would like to see the clubs really put t actions behind their marketing and put forth their best players to play together on a team at age group (2yr groupings if I had my way) to better develop the top talent in the state on the girls side. The exhaust from this action would be a reduction in noise and negativity from the parents as no one could claim to be "the best." All arguments thereafter would be for second best and not many people like to argue and spit venom for the rights to second best team in the State at age group.
Why would there be less training with the players on different teams? They all would train regularly.
Also, the consolidation of players hasn't resulted in any more players going on to higher levels. Really, it has been about the same as before the pooling of players.
Is the consolidation the problem, or the coaching the problem. I have watched groups of players with great athletic ability never reach their potential because of some terrible coaching. "Toxic" parents may be a function of inept coaching ? who knows, every situation is unique. Girls soccer is getting many/most of the top athletes so it can't only be blamed on the lack of consistant talent, all sports have that issue. The lack of a group of good coaches may be a bigger issue. Remember most of the coaches in MN that are from MN and played the game as a youth are either quite young, or were second tier athletes when growing up. Soccer is not even close to a first tier sport for boys today ( hockey, basketball,footbal)not to mention what it was like 15-25 years ago. the European/south American coaches were often the top tier athletes within their high schools etc. as soccer(Futbol) was/is the primary sport for boys in those countries.
Next question is : where are the strong women coaches? Many top athletes played soccer, I would say today that soccer is the number one sport for top female youth athletes.
Well, I see the problem of club hopping as big. All it takes is one or two athletes to leave a team and either others leave or the team is severely weakened. Most of these teams would be very, very good if everyone would stay put. Down the line the teams and individuals would be fine. It happened in our family back in the day. We would have stayed put but others left (for no real improvement individually or team wise. Our preference was to stay and tried hard to do so.
10:25 -
The point being made is that the top players would train together, as a group, 120 - 150 times per year versus against each other in games 10-15 times per year. This would be a better development environment for those players as they would not show up at practice 3-times per week and be the best 1-3 players on the field every time.
Your second point makes no sense, there has not been consolidation to this point in girls soccer in MN.
11:32 - You believe the best player on XYZ should stay on team XYZ as in the end they will develop as a player at the same rate regardless of the peer training environment they are in? I disagree. Again good for the team, the club, not best for the top player developmentally. You can argue it is not good for the teammates if the best player stays as well as they are never pushed to be the difference maker when the star is around. Some teams actually improve after the best player moves on as the other players step up, gain confidence, and take a bigger individual role in the teams success.
Hockey was used as an example as an example of a successful system. I may be wrong but it is my understanding that in hockey they must play for their community club. there are opportunities to play on select teams in addition to your community club team.
Also, having the players spread out in no way limits how much training they can do. I guess I don't get your point in this regard.
Wow. You're all whining about a problem that doesn't exist. The best players get noticed regardless of where they are. "Tier 2-non-USSDA/ECNL" SCV just had nearly an entire team of girls commit to D1 scholarships, and numerous boys have gone D1 in recent years.
If your kid stinks, stop whining. If your kid doesn't stink, get off your computer and start getting him/her noticed.
No experience in the hockey world to draw comparisons from, sorry. That said, I do not think the model you outline is possible in today's soccer club structure.
Today, If you play for club XYZ you cannot also play on another team outside the club (except as a guest player). A few years ago you could actually play on two teams (club team and tournament team not associated with your club as an example) as most clubs only secured MYSA passes for their players which allowed players to be registered with US club outside of the MYSA club they were with. Now a majority of clubs secure both MYSA and US club cards for their players as to prevent the player from playing elsewhere on a tournament only team, per the example.
Outside of ODP I do not know of any "select team" opportunities that clubs would allow their players to play on.
Spreading out top talent does not limit the amount of training they can do. It limits amount of training the top talent does as a group does together.
??? for the soccer masterminds. Would you all prefer 1 super strong team and 10 great top class division 1 girls players.
or
4-7 'good' teams that all are competitive with eachother and develop 40-60 division 1 and 2 players.
I contend when we have had a top team like the original Tsunami Sota team that others teams decide there is no point in trying to compete, train less, play less tournaments/showcases and lower the expectations of the players and teams.
I think the goal of all of these clubs should be to actually have competitive teams in premier and C1 meaning 6-12 teams that can play out of state and regionally and be competitive. Play quality and attractive soccer and find some wins along the way.
I agree with Tilsen.
Also, for those thinking they would like to be like the academies in Europe. It wouldn't be the way you think. Club Soccer there takes a dim view of club jumping and so on.
"Not best for the top player developmentally" -- that sole focus is the problem.
Not sure I agree with the “MA blew it” post. He had/has his vocal detractors across MN, but most people or organizations who focus on providing development options to the more serious or more talented athletes do. MN has ECNL and USDA in large part because MN has MTA, and without MA, there would have been no MTA.
That some of you still blather on about him only goes to show the impact the man made.
Though he is clearly out of the club game, my belief is that MN club soccer lost a valuable asset. The girls game will never be the same, and MTA is currently at risk of losing ground to other clubs at the age group Abboud once patrolled.
He legacy lives on though, and in every player or family who chooses MTA as their home. He has moved on. Maybe some of you should as well.
Go Rev!!
Perhaps you should move on too 4:35PM. The girl's game will never be the same? C'mon, even MA would not boast like that.
MA's "success" was Bangu, not MTA.
Providing development options to the more serious or more talented athletes is really not the problem. MTA or Bangu as an "option" is OK.
Minnesota will never be able to compete regionally or nationally until we get better coaches!!
There are many, many good coaches throughout MN. Maybe you moved to a club without one?
There are many good coaches spread throughout many MN clubs. Maybe it's time you look inward and figure out why you don't feel there are any good coaches? Maybe it's you?
"State cup brackets suck. Burnsville and North Metro do not deserve to be in semi finals at U14. Rev, Centennial, MTA, TRV are all better than them"
Just your opinion. Each of the teams you criticize have wins in the past against these teams. Also, remember that some of the kids on these teams might be reading what you put on here.
Question for the day: In the U-13 game last night between EP and Maplebrook Two of the Maplebrook players did not bring their alternate jersey to the game, Maplebrook was required to change but because two kids did not have their alternate the Maplebrook coach asked the EP coach if his kids had their alternates to which the EP coach replied yes but also said he refused to change to the alternate dark jersey. Two kids from Maplebrook had to sit out the game because of THEIR mistake. Question is: Do you believe the EP coach acted properly ? Is this playing within the spirit of good sportsmanship?
IMO If this were my team and because the weather was not real hot ( they had to change to alternate dark ) I would have been willing to change. Not very cut throat on my part I know. I see other side of this , It is State Cup, they should know better but my thoughts are more in line with letting the kids play. I would hope for the same courtesy if my team needed help.
Thoughts?
Maybe it's not playing with good sportsmanship, but a rule is a rule. I can see someone refusing and the weather was hot last night. Staying in light colored jersey's could make a difference. I probably wouldn't have changed.
The MB coach is somewhat of a ---, so I could see him doing the same thing to the other team!
Maplebrook coach is a parent coach. If you're playing C2 or C3 than parent coaches are great. C1 or above, give it up and let someone else coach your kid.
Tilsen, your view is that that top 15-20 players should be spread out across 4-6 teams to create the best development environment for players 21-100 at a given age group. My view is that we should provide the best development environment possible to our top 20 players if they are interested which would be having them train with one another as often as possible.
Difference of view and we will not sway one another.
Tilsen is correct
9:18 - you forgot " in my opinion"
8:00 Like any other general comment, you are right except for when you are wrong.
Agree most times a contracted coach is better than a parent coach but have seen several incidences where a parent coach (well qualified) has done a great job with Premier level teams. I also have seen several contracted coaches who aren't worth a hill of beans. Every situation is unique and needs to be addressed individually.
Agreed 9:56am, but why is it that in a majority of cases with parent coaches, that their child is one of the worst players on the team!
Not true on the teams I am thinking of, actually the other way around. These kids were two of the best on the team. Agree with you however that at lower ages/class your point is accurrate.
10:20 I have never seen it where the parent coach is the worst player on the team, usually it is the opposite.
5/2/12 9:52 PM
Yeah. Okay. I'm sure the other teams are shaking in their boots over North Metro girls and Burnsville reading the blog. Truth is, they didn't and couldn't beat those teams. They may get one here or there, but they wouldn't make it out of the bracket if they were in the same one.
6:45 am
I think the rule is dumb in the first place. Why should kids have to bring extra jerseys just in case. Home team is light or dark and away team is dark or light. MAKE THE RULE so everyone knows instead of playing stupid games and have kids miss out on playing because of being kids and forgetting.
Simple rule would be ALL HOME TEAMS WHERE LIGHT COLOR JERSEY AND ALL AWAY TEAMS WEAR DARK. Or visa versa. K. I. S. S.
can't believe they removed post criticizing Woodbury Soccer Club.
"Yeah. Okay. I'm sure the other teams are shaking in their boots over North Metro girls and Burnsville reading the blog. Truth is, they didn't and couldn't beat those teams. They may get one here or there, but they wouldn't make it out of the bracket if they were in the same one."
Do you really know the records amongst these teams? (I don't think you do)
"Do you really know the records amongst these teams? (I don't think you do)"
5/3/12 12:54 PM
Prove me wrong. I don't think you know either. Mostly new teams as well and the strong got stronger. The only chance NMetro or Bville will have to play them is at State or a tourny this year. Teams change from year to year, but I predict Bville and NMetro will get beat by PSA and MU. Centennial, TRV and MTA are all teams that are very close in talent and I think Rev were right there as well. Also mostly premiere teams who beat them last year. SOOOOO What is the argument? They ARE as good? I guess we will find out, but playing against st. croix and woodbury to get through a bracket doesn't build a lot of confidence. Just saying... the younger MTA team beat them out last year. LOL. Good Luck because I love underdogs.
can't believe they removed post criticizing Woodbury Soccer Club.
5/3/12 12:13 PM
I think the critisism is probably acceptable but not the swear word you had in your post. So saying that the Woodbury soccer club is sinking due to the poor management of DOC and select parent group is fine, stating that they &*(*&^ things up got you erased.... FYI
I posted the original question that said 'what is the single best club team right now' on the girls side and it went off into a spiral (good dialogue though). I dont have kids in MTA but I love the idea of ECNL and MTA's involvement. That's what Thunder should be, a club for elite players to train and compete with other Elite players. The beef has always been they have a host of c2/c1 quality players as well.
"I posted the original question that said 'what is the single best club team right now' on the girls side and it went off into a spiral (good dialogue though). I dont have kids in MTA but I love the idea of ECNL and MTA's involvement. That's what Thunder should be, a club for elite players to train and compete with other Elite players. The beef has always been they have a host of c2/c1 quality players as well."
5/3/12 2:00 PM
Thunder doesn't have a "HOST" of C2 players, dude. If they do take them they usually are good athletes that show potential for development. Many good C1 players aren't much different than premiere or ECNL. Its technical stuff that separates them... maybe stuff that can be taught. Problem with ECNL at MTA is they truly aren't any better than top MRL teams and you pay big $.
I would like to hear more about this EP vs Maplebrrok situation. Did the EP team players really have all their dark uniforms? If so, what the EP coach did is disgusting and embarrassing. I am very competitive but I would never allow my kid to play for a coach who would make that decision. This reflects very badly on the entire EP club. In the end it hurts the kids. Sadly, these things have a way of coming back to haunt a team. Very disappointing this happened in Mn soccer.
5/3 - Agree 100%. It was 80 degrees, the sun was low and getting lower in the sky and partly cloudy, a dark jersey was not going to be a disadvantage to anyone last night.
Unbelievable that a coach would force 2 players out of the game because they forgot their jersey's with a refusal to have his team change.......Nice win coach. Winning at all costs is a great lesson to teach 12 and 13 year old girls.
Spare me the "teach the kids some responsibility" argument on this one and the "jersey would have overheated the players"
Apologies if EP did not have all their alternate kits as I am going on the word of a poster on this blog that they did. I do not know for fact they did.
No, I did not have a player on that field.....
I would like to thank the blogger who first pointed out the Maplebrook/EP situation from State Cup. These type of ridiculous decisions need to be pointed out and the adults need to be held accountable. The Kids learned a clear life lesson of what NOT to do!
What the EP coach doesn't realize is now everyone is rooting against your team. Nice position to put your kids in.
Don't sweat it EP. You followed the rules. Maybe it's a bit of Karma for the Maplebrook coach?
10:36 - Really, two bad apple's (your opinion) does not make a unjust decision justifiable by one of them.
Nice logic. The EP girls learn a terrible life lesson, and two on MB team get benched by the EP coaches decision, and their poor planning, in one of the biggest soccer games of their young lives. Wait, but it is OK because in your opinion the other coach was an arse so HE deserved it. It is not about the MB coach my friend.
I don't know what I would do in this situation but why is this rule in place? What other rules can be "stretched"? I would have probably let the girls play but then again where does it stop? Also, too much is made of the idea that dark jerseys are too hot. New fabrics make this a red herring.
I do not have anything to do with either EP or MB, my kid is 17, in a different club.
But really why did the question even come up? The coach should have never been asked to change in the first place. They were not benched by the decision of the EP coach, they were benched because in their poor planning they could not follow the rules of the tournament. The rules are made to be followed, people should be responsible to follow and accountable when they don't. Bending rules teaches kids that the rules do not matter - because no one should feel the sting and be accountable for their actions. Yeah the kids/parents screwed up - but I bet that is a life lesson those kids will never forget. Sports do provide life lessons - if handled right, sports help develop responsible adults. It is a game, there will be more BIG games to be played.
Years ago one of our better players forgot her uniform and her parents thought - well, then she sits, lesson learned (it was her responsibility to have her bag packed with what she needed). To this day we all remember and think the coach screwed up because he made everyone else on the team change (yes, everyone else brought all uniforms). To the coach it was about the win, to the parents it was about teaching their child responsibility to the team.
This will never be resolved by opinions, there will always be people who think kids should never feel the hurt for their actions, others think - life lesson. It is a big divide among parents.
Just an FYI no maple rook girls had to sit. Not all bad for ep coach. This is an accurate fact
5/4 8:30 AM - Well said
It's OK in my opinion because they followed the rules. The real life lesson is to the girls who forgot their jerseys. Show up at big event unprepared and you may not get to do what you wanted to. Great lesson with little real consequence. This is about the equivalent of the dog ate my paper and the teacher won't let me turn it in late. I hope if these girls ever have to answer the question why they didn't get to play EP at State Cup they say because we forgot our jersey, not because the other team wouldn't change for us.
The EP coach did what he thought was best for his team. Say he had approached the team and said we need to change (which in the spirit of the game he should have)and the question "why?" comes up. The obvious answer is "because I am the coach and I said so", to avoid any drama before the game. With the moral lesson of why we changed to come after the game. He chose not to that and didn't have to, simply by following the rules.
I don't think the Maplebrook coach is an arse. I know he benched a whole team in the USA Cup by taking a forfeit. He did what was best for his team. The lesson to the other team is don't be in two events where there may be a schedule conflict (even though the weather was involved; not to mention the whole MYSA-USA Cup problem). In the spirit of the game he should have probably waited and played the game. He didn't and life goes on. I hope the girls on the other team think we didn't get to play in the semi's at USA Cup because we had a state game, not the other team took a forfeit.
Unjust decision? Not in my opinion. My friend.
Change the stupid rules for home/away jerseys. IF you can avoid having to "teach life lessons" and hurting peoples feelings by changing the rules so they are easier to abide by, then do it. There are so many instances where kids/parents forget to bring the second jersey and it isn't teaching a life lesson. That's just dumb. Games at 8:00 am and you were rushing out the door and forgot or once, my kid packed it, then was looking for something and it fell out in the hotel. Make it clear what jersey the teams are to wear by HOME and AWAY colors. Dark for HOME and LIGHT for away. Not difficult. The team who shows up with the wrong color then has to change or not play. Simple.
10:02am. In soccer LIGHT is for HOME and DARK is for AWAY. Since you are unclear on the proper attire for home and away, I'm thinking this must have happened to you.
Although, I do agree with you just make it mandatory on what jersey should be worn for home/away games. This way we won't have issues. But, I also agree with the EP coach a rule is a rule and they shouldn't have been asked to change. Too many people in society today think that rules don't apply to them and they can bend them. It's only soccer, but some girls learned a lesson this week.
5:30 -
Once the (2) MB girls were without their alternate kits of course the EP coach should have been asked if his team had all alternates and, if so, would he agree to change. Your "rules are rules" argument applies if the alternate course, in this case having the away team change kits instead of the home team, breaks a rule or is illegal. It does not provided the away coach agrees.
Have you or your kids every changed kits as the away team? It happens 1-2 times per year across the (3) teams my kids play on. 100% of the time the away team accommodates if they all have their second kits in the bag. I have never seen a away team refuse to change, that was able to, if it meant the other team would sit players!
It is not as black & white as you outline. Each individual that had an influence over the decisions and outcomes made in the situation is responsible for their own decisions & actions.
The (2) kids - that now seem to have played?
1. Started the chain of events by their lack of responsibility. The consequence being that they may not play as the decision was now out of their control.
2. The (2) kids parents - It seems from your message you would have benched (or wanted to bench if you could) your kid if they were one of the two MB girls forgetting the jersey even if the EP coach would have agreed to switch kits no rules were broken. To your point, many differing parenting styles and I would not do the same.
3. The EP coach, based on the scenario he was presented with, had a decision to make. Change kits (which would, at the time allow the two MB players to participate) or not to change kits, (at the time of the decision, taking (2) MB players out of the game). I am not a mind reader but his decision was most likely not based on anything but gaining advantage. 1) He was not trying to teach two kids he did not know from the other team about personal responsibility. 2) heat was not an issue, 3) Do not think EP U13s believe their light kits bring good luck.
You cannot defend the decision the EP coach made. He would not have been asked to change except for at the time it looked like (2) MB girls would not be able to play. The girls finding kits (parent driving fast from somewhere most likely) enabling them to join the game does not make the EP coach's decision any better.
You can argue he should not have been put in a position to have to make the decision in the first place, but he was. That is a lesson worth teaching kids. You will be put in positions that are difficult and come at you out of the blue. The decision will be hard and what is 'right" may not be what serves your desires at the time.
Weekend Predictions assuming all players bring their uniforms =)
Weekend predictions
U15 Saturday
PL vs REV C1 PL
WYZ vs MPB Draw
CTG vs BVL CTG
REV vs MU Draw
MTA vs NSS MTA
EP vs SCV Draw
TCF vs CNS TCF
MAH vs TNK TNK
U15 Sunday
PL vs WAY Pl
DKT C1 vs MPB MPB
CTG vs MU CTG
REV vs BVL REV
MTA vs EP MTA
NSS vs SCV SCV
TCF vs MAH TCF
TNK vs CNS TNK
U16 Saturday
REV vs MTA Draw
EAG vs TRV Draw
EP vs REV C1 EP
MPB vs MTW MPB
SCV vs PSA Draw
NMT vs BHK Draw
U16 Sunday
REV vs Eagan REV
TRV vs MTA MTA
EP vs MPB EP
REVC1 vs MTW REV
SCV vs NMT SCV
PSA vs BHK PSA
U17 Saturday
MTA vs PSA Draw
TCF vs EDP Draw
WYZ vs BVL WYZ
SCV vs NMT SCV
U17 Sunday
MTA vs TCF MTA
PSA vs EP Draw
WYZ vs SCV Draw
BVL vs NMT Draw
I don't see MTA having success this weekend primarily because at this age group their top teams are ECNL (15-17). The pressure is on the perennials favorites that under achieve (ie REV at u16) IMO. I predict over the weekend, PL at u15, Rev at u16 (maybe EP) and the winner of BVL/Way at u17 will emerge as the favorites.
REV 16 and BVL 17 both have key players injured.
PL at 15 is not the team they were last year. They'll probably make it out of their easy bracket, but I would be surprised if they make it past bracket D favorite Tonka.
2:44,
Why is PL not the team they were last year? Who did they lose?
1:13PM
Do you under achieve if you lose in the final?
How good is PL at 15s?
5/4 at 8:30 - I also have a U17 player, and I have to agree with the lesson learned. Several years ago, I had my daughter at a Footholde or some other training event on a Friday night. She was not focused and playing around, and the trainer cautioned her twice. I saw her do it a third time, and I walked out on the field and apologized to the trainer, then took her home. I was NOT going to have her waste my time, her time, and the time of the other kids there. It never happened again, and she will be playing D-1 next year. Not a State Cup game, but I wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing. If it was truly the responsibility of the girls to pack their gear, then consequences are appropriate. If the parent packed the game, then I would think leniency might be considered. Best of luck to all teams at State Cup!
5/4 at 8:30 - I also have a U17 player, and I have to agree with the lesson learned. Several years ago, I had my daughter at a Footholde or some other training event on a Friday night. She was not focused and playing around, and the trainer cautioned her twice. I saw her do it a third time, and I walked out on the field and apologized to the trainer, then took her home. I was NOT going to have her waste my time, her time, and the time of the other kids there. It never happened again, and she will be playing D-1 next year. Not a State Cup game, but I wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing. If it was truly the responsibility of the girls to pack their gear, then consequences are appropriate. If the parent packed the game, then I would think leniency might be considered. Best of luck to all teams at State Cup!
3:35,
PL lost their best player to ECNL
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