US looked like crap against Spain. Definitely a reality check after getting lucky in WC 2010.
-Looked much better in the 2nd Half with Dempsey and Dolo.
-I'm so sick and tired of Tim Howard and his grumpy attitude. After his brutal WC, it seems he gets a free pass on the USMNT. Guzan should have the starting spot.
I think we'll walk through group play and return to playing with bad habits and inflated egos.
US's team problems are center backs and holding midfield. We just don't have enough quality or organization. US also struggle at FWD without any consistent play and for the most part no real threat. Hard to make teams keep any players back, when 3 good defenders can completely shut down 2 average forward. US coaching problems are more of the same...Bradley = Arena, neither seem to be able to get the team to the next level. US can sometimes play with anyone, and US can sometimes loose to anyone...sounds like England!
You might as well just said the problem is the whole team, no defense midfield or forward coach is no good and the team doesn't have enough quality or organization. Sounds like everything is wrong. Which has proven many times, in fact almost everytime they play.
-Donovan is really fast, but isn't dangerous at all. -Donovan constantly makes tiny, useless 1-touch passes (often back into pressure and back to the same player) in the midfield. -Dempsey is clearly our best player and a top level player. -How many times did we try to kick the ball over the top, giving the ball away, in the first half? Looked like MN High School, or Apple Valley, kickball. -Michael Bradley is so overrated. He's so bad defensively. -Why is JP Dellacamera calling games? He's awful.
Hey, there is a screening of the film story of Jay DeMerit, Rise and Shine that will be shown at the Sweetwater in St. Paul before Saturday's US Gold Cup game.
Should be great! Jay's brother, Todd will be there for the screening.
Time to start over exactly...and that means cleaning house, starting with the most constant piece of the last 10 years: Landon Donovan.
Seriously, what did he do against Panama?
-never takes anyone on -never creates anything with combinations -takes all the indirect kicks and corners, half of which are under-hit, resulting in quick transitions -plays lazy defense (see that play in the 2nd half where Howard then goes off (surprise) on the pretty boy
He's beyond overrated and that's why he's still an MLSer. He just runs faster than everyone in the MLS.
While we are cleaning house is it possible to get rid of the over confident announcers that talk like the US has arrived and are one of the best? Although watching Donovan drive a free kick into the first defenders head every time makes me upset the thing that really gets me is the announcer saying how he is a free kick master. Having to listen to these announcers makes me almost more upset than the results as they continually compliment the team that loses to teams like Panama and the rest of the long list posted, when will they see what everyone else watching the game sees?
JP Dellacamera, John Harkes and Julie Fowdy lead the list of numbskulls getting paid big bucks to do terrible work.
Here's what Harkes said before the US-Canada match:
"You always want to open a tournament against your toughest opponent. You want to get points against your toughest opponent early in the tournament."
Really? Wouldn't you want to get 6 points against weak opponents to open the tournament so you can rest your roster in your 3rd game against your toughest opponent and prepare for the next round? Yes.
It's amazing how thrilled people are when we tie England off a "kind of own-goal" and tie puny Slovenia and luckily beat Algeria in extra time...but then people are so down when we lose to Panama and barely beat puny Guadaloupe...even though we played at the same level in all of those matches.
Bottom line, we aren't a very good team, our "best players" aren't very good, and we're lucky to play in the CONCACAF.
What do you think will happen first, the US winning a world cup or a team from Africa winning it? I realize this question has nothing to do with gold cup but interested in your thoughts.
Wow tough question - In Africa you are talking about poorer facilities and even more corrupt soccer organizations; however they have better quality and skilled soccer players, but play less disciplined with their systems of play. Additionally soccer is their continental sport.
Neither the US or an African nation will ever win (in our lifetimes). Both are generations behind Europe and South America and I don't see the gap being closed any time soon.
Ghana has our number. Africa is better than us.
I love how the media and fans are so excited about beating...Jamaica! Nice to see Donovan come off the bench.
Thats what makes the question interesting. Its a debate of whether true talent like Africa has in their country but no system to bring it up and keep it disciplined will be better than the barely talented US that has so much discipline they turn the creative minded players away and never let it shine or if this discipline can some how pull out what would most likely be an ugly world cup win but a trophy none the less. Not a question of how many years it would take. Clearly the US wont win the world cup any time soon when they only beat non FIFA affiliated teams 1 0 and African nations have their own problems to deal with as well, but from your response I assume you meant Africa in the end, just years down the road which I completely agree with that statement.
Would have been even better to see Donovan sit the bench through the entire game though too in my eyes.
All the Freddy haters, including Bob Bradley, can eat crow. By far the best player on the field once he entered. Not sure why Donovan is getting so much praise. Next pass after the goal is 5 yards behind Dempsey.
I am eating crow - if Adu continues to play like that I would definitely increase his playing time - the pass leading to the goal broke it open. One pass beat 5 defenders. Thing of beauty and the rest of his play was better than expected
-He scored a hat-trick in the 2007 U20 WC when he was 18. -He was clearly the best player on the 2007 U20 team that rostered Altidore and Bradley. -He scored in the 2009 Gold Cup.
His dominance last night shouldn't be surprising at all. Classic moment was when he dropped that pass right on Bradley's foot in the box only to have Bradley blindly kick it to Panama. Disgusting.
It all feeds into my Landon Donovan conspiracy theory. Donovan can't accept not being the face of US Soccer, which is why Donovan always seems to get a free pass, stays in the MLS, always appears grumpy and stale, and why Freddy never gets to play.
Nearly every player with USMNT Caps, including Donovan, Onyewu, Bradley and Altidore, have failed to be consistent at many levels of play.
I just don't understand why Adu has gotten the short end of the stick over the last 4 years while Donovan has been the posterboy forever - even though Donovan has had a very fair share of bad, or awful, performances. Adu should have been our posterboy in South Africa. I feel like people go out of their way to label Donovan our best player (Dempsey last night).
@Mister Soccer "But everyone will overlook this because we have a great chance of winning the prestigious Gold Cup on home soil against world class competition"
Love the sarcasm - this game is meaningless except from a international rivalry point of view. A win by the supposed 18th ranked team in the world against the supposed 28th team in the world truly indicates nothing of any substance.
A superior performance in the friendly tune-up against Spain would have had more meaning to me than a Gold Cup win.
The drop off vs Mexico in Gold Cup final when Bornstein replaced Cherundolo was stunning. The game changed dramatically when Bradley was forced to make that substitution. Mexico was very good but we had a clean sheet up to that point. I really like Lichaj.
@anon 450 - that's the nicest thing you have ever said to me. thank you
So state your case with facts why I don't have a clue. I prefer clarity over agreement and I'm willing to concede I will not change your mind regarding your opinion about me.
So convince those sitting on the fence about your position that I am clueless. Give them factual reasons for your rational.
Donovan doesn't create anything with the ball. I really think the US team will flourish when grumpy Donovan and grumpy Howard are removed from the starting XI.
Quite the give-away in the defensive 3rd by Bradley right before the first goal.
Why move Lichaj to the right when Bornstein came in. Doing that changed 2 defensive positions on the fly instead of just 1.
-Lichaj is usually a right-back, but Lichaj and Bocanegra had been solid together on the left. Why break-up the chemistry? -Bornstein has always been garbage and is always on the left. Let him be garbage on the right. -Why not use Spector instead of Bornstein on the right. -Timothy Chandler will be our right-back going forward, so I see no reason to give Lichaj time there.
Adu looked great in the 1st half. Haven't watched 2nd half yet - just finished cleaning up my vomit after our 1st half meltdown. Donovan with a great finish - didn't do anything else.
I'm not surprised that Mexico went 0-3 and Costa Rica went 1-2 in the Copa America. Further showing the weakness of CONCACAF. How does CONCACAF get 3 teams into the World Cup? Should only get 1 with a second playing off.
-American system that relies too heavily on well-to-do upper middle class kids -pay exorbitant fees to play for club soccer and travel teams -track into the ACC or the Pac-10, which aren't exactly like the FC Barcelona youth system. -access to an underserved, under-recruited, unnoticed group of athletes -Klinsmann said he wants to tap into America's "melting pot" and find a style that reflects the culture -push for college, about the rigid youth system, about the lack of pickup soccer -entrenched pay-to-play system run by youth coaches that are making a decent living
Like I've said, it's a country club sport and a cultural issue.
Problem now is, one national team coach (Klinsmann), isn't going to change the culture.
Our best athletes don't play a lot of sports, but the USA still wins in those sports.
The important point is that our best Mexican-American athletes, our best Somali-American athletes, our best Liberian-American athletes, our best Ghanaian-American athletes (Fred Adu), our best Scottish-American athletes (Stu Holden) would likely play soccer.
Then every once in a while we'll get a great American-American athlete like Charlie Davies.
50 comments:
Reality check vs. Spain
US looked like crap against Spain. Definitely a reality check after getting lucky in WC 2010.
-Looked much better in the 2nd Half with Dempsey and Dolo.
-I'm so sick and tired of Tim Howard and his grumpy attitude. After his brutal WC, it seems he gets a free pass on the USMNT. Guzan should have the starting spot.
I think we'll walk through group play and return to playing with bad habits and inflated egos.
US's team problems are center backs and holding midfield. We just don't have enough quality or organization. US also struggle at FWD without any consistent play and for the most part no real threat. Hard to make teams keep any players back, when 3 good defenders can completely shut down 2 average forward. US coaching problems are more of the same...Bradley = Arena, neither seem to be able to get the team to the next level. US can sometimes play with anyone, and US can sometimes loose to anyone...sounds like England!
You might as well just said the problem is the whole team, no defense midfield or forward coach is no good and the team doesn't have enough quality or organization. Sounds like everything is wrong. Which has proven many times, in fact almost everytime they play.
Won 2-0 v. Canada today, but we didn't look good.
-Donovan is really fast, but isn't dangerous at all.
-Donovan constantly makes tiny, useless 1-touch passes (often back into pressure and back to the same player) in the midfield.
-Dempsey is clearly our best player and a top level player.
-How many times did we try to kick the ball over the top, giving the ball away, in the first half? Looked like MN High School, or Apple Valley, kickball.
-Michael Bradley is so overrated. He's so bad defensively.
-Why is JP Dellacamera calling games? He's awful.
There were 28,000 people at the US game. Why have it at crummy Ford Field (capacity 65,000)?
Awful atmosphere, awful surface. Is MYSA organizing this?
Hey, there is a screening of the film story of Jay DeMerit, Rise and Shine that will be shown at the Sweetwater in St. Paul before Saturday's US Gold Cup game.
Should be great! Jay's brother, Todd will be there for the screening.
Details here:
http://is.gd/atArCY
Anyone else watching the US game and wishing they were from Panama so that they could cheer for the better team?
Been hoping to cheer for the better team for a long while.
Best defender on the Panama team only plays first division in Mexico.
Best attacker only plays in the second division of Mexican soccer.
Pathetic example soccer.
Time to start over
Time to start over exactly...and that means cleaning house, starting with the most constant piece of the last 10 years: Landon Donovan.
Seriously, what did he do against Panama?
-never takes anyone on
-never creates anything with combinations
-takes all the indirect kicks and corners, half of which are under-hit, resulting in quick transitions
-plays lazy defense (see that play in the 2nd half where Howard then goes off (surprise) on the pretty boy
He's beyond overrated and that's why he's still an MLSer. He just runs faster than everyone in the MLS.
Here are some of our results in the last 2 years. Not pretty.
2-2 El Salvadore
1-3 Costa Rica
1-3 Italy
0-3 Brazil
2-3 Brazil
2-2 Haiti
0-5 Mexico
1-2 Mexico
2-2 Costa Rica
0-1 Slovakia
1-3 Denmark
1-3 Honduras
1-2 Holland
2-4 Czech
2-2 Slovenia
0-2 Brazil
2-2 Poland
0-0 Colombia
1-1 Chile
0-1 Paraguay
0-4 Spain
1-2 Panama
Not sure why this list seems to be ignored by Gulati and our fans. Most of our wins come against awful CONCACAF squads.
Spot on Mister Soccer
We play so terrible off and on the ball.
The American way of doing things is not working
While we are cleaning house is it possible to get rid of the over confident announcers that talk like the US has arrived and are one of the best? Although watching Donovan drive a free kick into the first defenders head every time makes me upset the thing that really gets me is the announcer saying how he is a free kick master. Having to listen to these announcers makes me almost more upset than the results as they continually compliment the team that loses to teams like Panama and the rest of the long list posted, when will they see what everyone else watching the game sees?
Agreed. It's brutal.
JP Dellacamera, John Harkes and Julie Fowdy lead the list of numbskulls getting paid big bucks to do terrible work.
Here's what Harkes said before the US-Canada match:
"You always want to open a tournament against your toughest opponent. You want to get points against your toughest opponent early in the tournament."
Really? Wouldn't you want to get 6 points against weak opponents to open the tournament so you can rest your roster in your 3rd game against your toughest opponent and prepare for the next round? Yes.
I know a win is a win but that was like getting a tie for Father's day and you don't own a suit.
It's amazing how thrilled people are when we tie England off a "kind of own-goal" and tie puny Slovenia and luckily beat Algeria in extra time...but then people are so down when we lose to Panama and barely beat puny Guadaloupe...even though we played at the same level in all of those matches.
Bottom line, we aren't a very good team, our "best players" aren't very good, and we're lucky to play in the CONCACAF.
I was none too thrilled with the past US world Cup performance and less thrilled when Bradley's contract was renewed
What do you think will happen first, the US winning a world cup or a team from Africa winning it? I realize this question has nothing to do with gold cup but interested in your thoughts.
Wow tough question - In Africa you are talking about poorer facilities and even more corrupt soccer organizations; however they have better quality and skilled soccer players, but play less disciplined with their systems of play. Additionally soccer is their continental sport.
I'm going with Africa
An above average performance against a very average team. C+ would have been a B- if not for the professional acting job
Neither the US or an African nation will ever win (in our lifetimes). Both are generations behind Europe and South America and I don't see the gap being closed any time soon.
Ghana has our number. Africa is better than us.
I love how the media and fans are so excited about beating...Jamaica! Nice to see Donovan come off the bench.
Thats what makes the question interesting. Its a debate of whether true talent like Africa has in their country but no system to bring it up and keep it disciplined will be better than the barely talented US that has so much discipline they turn the creative minded players away and never let it shine or if this discipline can some how pull out what would most likely be an ugly world cup win but a trophy none the less. Not a question of how many years it would take. Clearly the US wont win the world cup any time soon when they only beat non FIFA affiliated teams 1 0 and African nations have their own problems to deal with as well, but from your response I assume you meant Africa in the end, just years down the road which I completely agree with that statement.
Would have been even better to see Donovan sit the bench through the entire game though too in my eyes.
Man of the Match easily Freddy Adu.
All the Freddy haters, including Bob Bradley, can eat crow. By far the best player on the field once he entered. Not sure why Donovan is getting so much praise. Next pass after the goal is 5 yards behind Dempsey.
I am eating crow - if Adu continues to play like that I would definitely increase his playing time - the pass leading to the goal broke it open. One pass beat 5 defenders. Thing of beauty and the rest of his play was better than expected
Better than expected?
-He scored a hat-trick in the 2007 U20 WC when he was 18.
-He was clearly the best player on the 2007 U20 team that rostered Altidore and Bradley.
-He scored in the 2009 Gold Cup.
His dominance last night shouldn't be surprising at all. Classic moment was when he dropped that pass right on Bradley's foot in the box only to have Bradley blindly kick it to Panama. Disgusting.
It all feeds into my Landon Donovan conspiracy theory. Donovan can't accept not being the face of US Soccer, which is why Donovan always seems to get a free pass, stays in the MLS, always appears grumpy and stale, and why Freddy never gets to play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAMp7bkzNOY
We've never seen Donovan do this stuff.
Mister Soccer he has shown flashes of brilliance but has failed to be consistent at many levels of play.
I would concede that some of that can be contributed to Coach Bradley influencing his confidence level and putting pressure on him.
I believe he has earned a chance to break the starting 11 this Saturday.
Nearly every player with USMNT Caps, including Donovan, Onyewu, Bradley and Altidore, have failed to be consistent at many levels of play.
I just don't understand why Adu has gotten the short end of the stick over the last 4 years while Donovan has been the posterboy forever - even though Donovan has had a very fair share of bad, or awful, performances. Adu should have been our posterboy in South Africa. I feel like people go out of their way to label Donovan our best player (Dempsey last night).
@ Mister Soccer, We are on the same page about Donovan and Coach Bradley.
I will see how Adu develops from this point forward but it will hinder him with Bradley at the helm.
The U17 mens national team as some nice talent to compliment Adu in the future
If he would have performed better overseas I might be more supportive of your position. At the level he was at he should have dominated
It's amazing how quickly some players in their primes go from being on top of Bob Bradley's player pool to being seemingly exiled from the pool.
-Ricardo Clark
-Robbie Findley
-Edson Buddle
-Kenny Cooper
-Eddie Johnson
-Marvell Wynne
It just proves how clueless and mindless Bob Bradley is. How does he have the top US coaching job?
Then you have guys like Jon Bornstein. It kills me.
But everyone will overlook this because we have a great chance of winning the prestigious Gold Cup on home soil against world class competition.
@Mister Soccer
"But everyone will overlook this because we have a great chance of winning the prestigious Gold Cup on home soil against world class competition"
Love the sarcasm - this game is meaningless except from a international rivalry point of view. A win by the supposed 18th ranked team in the world against the supposed 28th team in the world truly indicates nothing of any substance.
A superior performance in the friendly tune-up against Spain would have had more meaning to me than a Gold Cup win.
The drop off vs Mexico in Gold Cup final when Bornstein replaced Cherundolo was stunning. The game changed dramatically when Bradley was forced to make that substitution.
Mexico was very good but we had a clean sheet up to that point.
I really like Lichaj.
@135- however even with Cherundolo in the line-up Mexico was threatening and exposing us, they just hadn't score yet.
It's a sad statement when a Cherundolo goes down and the team has an epic failure like they did.
Agree with you on lichaj
You're all proving how little you know about soccer. Donovan is the best player on the roster. Hands down. Adu looks lost.
@947 - Really??? How so? Show us how much you know and how little we do.
tomass, you prove time and time again in post after post on topic after topic that you are clueless.
@anon 450 - that's the nicest thing you have ever said to me. thank you
So state your case with facts why I don't have a clue. I prefer clarity over agreement and I'm willing to concede I will not change your mind regarding your opinion about me.
So convince those sitting on the fence about your position that I am clueless. Give them factual reasons for your rational.
Donovan doesn't create anything with the ball. I really think the US team will flourish when grumpy Donovan and grumpy Howard are removed from the starting XI.
Quite the give-away in the defensive 3rd by Bradley right before the first goal.
All 4 of Donovan's goals in the 2007 Gold Cup came from penalty kicks. How many of Donovan's 46 international goals come from PKs?
Why move Lichaj to the right when Bornstein came in. Doing that changed 2 defensive positions on the fly instead of just 1.
-Lichaj is usually a right-back, but Lichaj and Bocanegra had been solid together on the left. Why break-up the chemistry?
-Bornstein has always been garbage and is always on the left. Let him be garbage on the right.
-Why not use Spector instead of Bornstein on the right.
-Timothy Chandler will be our right-back going forward, so I see no reason to give Lichaj time there.
Adu looked great in the 1st half. Haven't watched 2nd half yet - just finished cleaning up my vomit after our 1st half meltdown. Donovan with a great finish - didn't do anything else.
yeah, bring back casey keller. now there's a keeper.
A simple switch in coaching staff +4 years, will get us back to CONCACAF dominance.
CONCACAF dominance...Who cares?
We're currently in the same place within sorry CONCACAF that we've always been...top 2 with Mexico. Nothing has changed in 20 years.
from Caddyshack...
Judge Smails: "Well, the world needs ditch diggers, too."
I'm not surprised that Mexico went 0-3 and Costa Rica went 1-2 in the Copa America. Further showing the weakness of CONCACAF. How does CONCACAF get 3 teams into the World Cup? Should only get 1 with a second playing off.
Good article:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/ann_killion/08/02/us.klinsmann/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a4
-American system that relies too heavily on well-to-do upper middle class kids
-pay exorbitant fees to play for club soccer and travel teams
-track into the ACC or the Pac-10, which aren't exactly like the FC Barcelona youth system.
-access to an underserved, under-recruited, unnoticed group of athletes
-Klinsmann said he wants to tap into America's "melting pot" and find a style that reflects the culture
-push for college, about the rigid youth system, about the lack of pickup soccer
-entrenched pay-to-play system run by youth coaches that are making a decent living
Like I've said, it's a country club sport and a cultural issue.
Problem now is, one national team coach (Klinsmann), isn't going to change the culture.
Klinsmann may not be able to change the culture, but MTA sure will.
The SI article is an opinion piece, not Klinsmann. The writer glosses over the most important point:
"You can argue -- as many have -- that the best American athletes are never going to play soccer."
Period.
So what?
Our best athletes don't play a lot of sports, but the USA still wins in those sports.
The important point is that our best Mexican-American athletes, our best Somali-American athletes, our best Liberian-American athletes, our best Ghanaian-American athletes (Fred Adu), our best Scottish-American athletes (Stu Holden) would likely play soccer.
Then every once in a while we'll get a great American-American athlete like Charlie Davies.
High school thread!
High school thread!
High school thread!
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