6:27 I agree. I would also argue, almost without exception, that the second teams at every club fit the profile outlined above. Many players attend MTA tryouts and, if they do not make the top team, stay with their current club. Usually the second MTA teams are comprised mostly of players who started with MTA when they were younger and the friends they grew up playing with are on the team. If MTA's flow of young players (u9-U11s) continues to slow down you will see the number of second teams decrease over time (not counting the West, which is essentially a different club with the same badge).
MTA is still the most successful at consolidating talent in the state but that is not saying much as the talent is very spread out at several age groups. We have nothing like Eclipse which runs successfully in several Chicagoland areas and aggregates talent from both their community based teams and outside players. Nor of course do we have the large pool of players that Eclipse draws from.
If you find the club that puts their energy equally into their top 2 teams, let alone all of their teams as you stated, please let me know. Some clubs do it through pool training which I think is great but the ones I know only do it at the younger ages.
When parents have a child move from the top team to the second team the first thing you hear is "the team is not training enough, the players are not as serious, the coaching is not as good." These are the ones most likely to switch clubs. I would guess for every top talent player trying out at a different club to find a better environment their are 3-4 players trying out elsewhere as a back up in case they do not make the top team at their own club. The exception being at U14 where all the 13's that thought they would make premier and did not go tryout at the team that did.
I'm fine with that. My kid is taught to behave in certain ways in certain situations. She has heard me sear, she doesn't (I assume she might around her friends from time to time). Mistakes are made and corrected. I am sure Tilsen regrets his behavior and will be fine.
In addition, in my sports experience, I had phenomenal coaches that swore a blue streak and those that didn't and coaches that never swore and were poor. I would choose a good or great coach that swears over one that isn't a good/great coach that doesn't.
5/17/12 7:56 AM here - How did Tilsen come in to this? I was wondering about people's feelings about coaches, not about Aaron swearing.
I am sure other coaches have done some of the same thing, but no one made such a reference. It all depends on who you are and if you are liked or not.
Back to the coaching question - is it good for a coach to have kids for more than 2 years? Do their words fall on to deaf ears? Could they possibly get better with numerous coaches and learn more (what to do or what not to do)?
That isn't what was said. It also isn't ok to be on a referee for a game trying (and succeeding) to bend calls your way but we accept it all the time. It is just as objectionable as swearing, in fact, more so in my opinion.
Ok, let's go this way with the question then. Since everyone knows what a good coach is, let's hear your idea(s) of a good coach. What qualifies or quantifies a person as a good coach in your opinion(s)? What makes a good coach?
#1 Must be a motivator #2 Must be a worker #3 Technical knowledge/ability #4 Tactical knowledge/ability #5 Must be able to understand and identify where players fit. #5 could easily be #3.
This list could be bigger or smaller. Some coaches make up for a lack in one area with a strength in another.
It's really difficult to know who the best coaches are because there's so much that goes into it... Very few people watching training sessions, see how the coach interacts with the players, see how the coach manages the team, etc. Sure there are some coaches that most would agree are very good but to know if they're the "best" would be very difficult both because quality of coaching really varies based on how the coach interacts with the players. Very few coaches can be "great" at coaching all types of players/personalities and many of the "best" coaches are assumed to be that because they have the most talented teams, does that make them the best coaches? I don't know.
Most people compare a good coach to their winning record. I think a good coach is one that brings the most out of a team and your athlete. Greg Wheatone is probably one of the best coaches in Minnesota for soccer. Greg has knowledge of the game at a high level, is an excellent trainer and coach, really connects with the players, has brought the best out of a lot of players in Minnesota and has the most class I have ever seen in a coach. Some honorable mentions would be Mark Abboud, Julie Ebensteiner, possibly Andy Kaasa, Steve McCord, Jonathan Schaffer, Chris Galbraith and PepeJon Chavez. All of these coaches and trainers have taken kids and young adults and developed them in to soccer players and brought the most out of kids throughout the soccer community in various ways.
Now, I am sure there are more out there, but these are the ones that are thought of off the cuff. Of course, this is just my opinion.
If clubs treated soccer like hockey..the district model might work. i.e. treat as competitive not rec program. Let the players who are dedicated have the opportunity to train and play with those as passionate about the game.(see lakeville)
Ok, this could start a firestorm, but thinking of going to MTA tryouts. Fairly postitive my kid won't make ECNL. Is it worth all that money to play on the "B" or "2nd" team? I heard colleges don't bother with the 2nd teams in a club with the exception of D3 schools (no scholarships).
"I heard colleges don't bother with the 2nd teams in a club with the exception of D3 schools (no scholarships).'
Who tells you this stuff? Why do you believe them? Contact coaches. Talk to the coaches where your player is interested in playing. They know much more than MTA or any other club. Some club DOC and coaches are good at communicating with college coaches. There are many non-MTA players getting scholarships and going to non-scholarship schools. Remember, most college athletes don't get athletic scholarships, they play for the love of the game. Don't believe what people tell you about how much this player or that player is getting either. Many times the "truth" isn't reality.
My main point was, is it even worth going to MTA? I don't care if my kids play D3 as long as they're happy playing. I was wondering if paying all that money to MTA is even worth it when you hear about other clubs (SCV, REV, EDP) getting scholarships or partials or just an offer to play in college.
Reach out and see if your daughters can guest play and see if they the players and the coach if they do have them try out know must clubs are very open to have kids guest play especially in July good way for both the guest player and the team she is interested in too figure out it would be a good fit.
Reach out and see if your daughters can guest play and see if they like the players and the coach if they do have them try out most clubs are very open to have kids guest play especially in July good way for both the guest player and the team she is interested in too figure out if would be a good fit.
Make sure when you have them guest play or you are paying attention to the age group, pay attention to the first and second teams. Some of hte second teams are ok, but others are not. Also, try to watch a few games, do not go based on one game. Each teams has their highs and each team has their lows. Make sure your daughter is getting what they want out of the coach, the team, the training and the game.
Ask to guest play with any club your daughters are interested in and they will make the decision for you. Rev ep mta ant St croix as you mentioned above are all good options with rev and mta having two good teams at both ages.
If your kid isn't "good enough" for the ECNL team they won't make either the REV or St Croix teams at these ages either. Both clubs teams at these ages are as good or better than the MTA ECNL teams. Honestly if they are not up to that level of play and you desire to be on a #1 team for a club plan on a low end Premier level or a good C1 team. You can monitor the MYSA standings to get a feel for the better teams by record and then start your research from that point.
Quote: A month after being named the 2012 Hobey Baker Memorial Award winner as the top player in Division I men's hockey, Minnesota Duluth senior center Jack Connolly of Duluth sent a letter to Minnesota Hockey (formerly the Minnesota Amateur Hockey Association).
The letter, thanking the Minnesota hockey community for his development, was dated May 7 and forwarded to the News Tribune by Minnesota Hockey executive director Mike Snee of St. Paul. An edited version of the letter appears here.
Dear Minnesota Hockey:
I recently had the honor and privilege of being named the 2012 Hobey Baker Award recipient as the top men's college hockey player. Just typing that sentence causes all kinds of wonderful emotions and thoughts, but more than anything, it makes me realize how fortunate I am to be from Minnesota, especially Duluth.
I put my skates on for the first time in the warming house at the Duluth Heights outdoor rink when I was four. And some of the other four-year-old kids who were putting their skates on for the first time, next to me in the warming house, are still some of my best friends today, 18 years later.
We grew up on the outdoor ice rinks and eventually the indoor ice rinks in the Duluth area. My friends and I are extremely lucky to have been coached by so many wonderful people who instilled a passion and respect for the game. I was fortunate enough to play in the state high school tournament and eventually for my hometown Bulldogs, being part of a memorable team that won the school's first Division I national championship. But it all started with the foundation that was built for me by the community hockey system that Minnesota has.
In recent years, I've been able to play on teams with players from all over North America. After talking about our childhood hockey experiences, I realized that hockey elsewhere is not quite like hockey in Minnesota.
As a mite and squirt playing for Duluth Heights, all I wanted to do was beat the other Duluth neighborhood teams. At the peewee and bantam level, I played for Duluth East, which increased my list of rivals. And in high school, at Duluth Marshall, the only thing better than a game against Hermantown, was a win against Hermantown.
All of this was done with my friends. All of this was done while living in the same house where I'd fall asleep as a four year old dreaming about hockey. All of this was done while continuing to play soccer at a high level throughout high school. I didn't join an all-star team of 10-year-old kids in the winter and go to tournaments in Quebec City or Buffalo. I played with kids from across the alley and down the street, and a big road trip was a tournament in Coleraine. I didn't move away at age 14 to pursue my hockey dreams. Instead I stayed home to play the game I love with my friends.
I did develop. I developed as a hockey player and a person, and for that I want to thank everyone involved in hockey in Minnesota: the coaches at Duluth Heights who picked me up when I fell as a four year old and those connected with Minnesota Hockey who oversee the community associations. I truly appreciate all that you have done for me and other young players in Minnesota.
I encourage you to keep doing it because hockey in Minnesota works and is indeed special. From the bottom of my brand new Hobey Baker Award, thank you.
Did you read it? The point is the young man developed in his community program and reached a very high level. This model (community based) works. If everyone stayed home, no one would need to leave for "development".
model will not work unless soccer is viewed with the same passion as hockey. From the local club perspective and parent/participant standpoint. (training, commitment, fitness,attendance, competitiveness)
For those involved in soccer, their passion is the same as those with passion for hockey (or basketball, baseball, etc.). The difference is that hockey keeps players in their community clubs except for select teams usually after the club season. If this model was followed, the result would be similar for soccer as it is for hockey.
9:27 I certainly agree unfortunately there are not as many "passionate" for the game of soccer in Minnesota thus creating a training environment with 3-4 per community team with the interest to develop to their fullest potential. (I would suggest that 90+% of those involved in community hockey are passionate.) Also there is a overall lack of qualified parents/paid trainers with the expertise or passion to provide quality training. other athletes just use it as an outlet to stay in shape or compete as a second sport. it's not about scholarships or professional aspirations it's about doing your best to be the best you can. (i.e. many kids dream of being president of the united states so the study hard, make good choices, find the best schools, but the % chance that they ever have this chance is very slim. Are they just wasting time, effort and money?)
Following the model of recruiting and collecting athletes under the guise of "development" which is only a clever marketing strategy, a Rooney, Wambaugh, Marta, Boxx would never be able to "develop" as they are clear stand outs How do they improve? Bunch of marketing hype. Parents believe, same way con artists take people's money suckers want to believe.
do the community hockey players take the fall, spring or summer off or do they participate on club teams or leagues? are there any competitive programs offered for those who may be on the higher end of the talent? Minnesota Made? Bantam? Girls playing in boys leagues? Are the additional opportunities free or are there fees associated?
so if we're commenting on the state of Minnesota Girls Club soccer and there is an attempt to draw a couple of comparisons with club hockey it creates an issue? if I ended with I hate MTA would it make it more appropriate??
we choose not to compare because it's not convenient to those whose primary sport is not soccer.. a family of a hockey player who pays a thousand+ per season is normal and a young lady paying the same amount is crazy because she'll never be a professional... let them play where they want, pay what they want and don't try to fit square pegs in round holes.
Sorry, but the odds of the hockey player becoming a professional is miniscule too. That argument doesn't hold water especially for girls-is there a professional hockey league for women?
The soccer gods at Bangu decided to replicate the club models in Chicago and elsewhere, thinking that the same model would succeed here. MTA has had some successes and failures but I think many would agree that the MTA model is not the best and only model for MN.
While I'm not suggesting that the hockey model is the model that should be followed for soccer here, I think the soccer gods could learn some valuable lessons from youth hockey development in MN and on a national level. One of the biggest differences between hockey and soccer is the unstructured development that happens at young ages at ponds and parks across MN. How often do you see a group of kids (especially non-immigrants) kicking the ball or playing in a pickup game at the park just for fun? The elite high school hockey age player also has many options to pursue -- stay in high school, play junior hockey in US or in Canada, play in college, play in the US national team development program in Michigan, etc. -- with each option giving that player a great chance of schieving his/her dream. What options does the elite high school age soccer player or Freddy Adu-type of player have?
Stay in your community if you want but don't get mad if some of your DD's teammates leave for another club. Free choice for all to make. My kids have made different choices. One plays in our/her community club and one plays at a club that consolidates talent.
In the end you cannot argue that having like minded and talented players train together is best for development. If you find that in the community you live in great. If you do not move on and do not feel bad about it.
For all those kids wanting to move to MTA, DON'T DO IT! My experience there was great at times, but not because of the club, coaching, or anthing else they offered. My first year there was exactly the same as my last. High cost, unorganization, unqualified coaches, lies, hypocracy, favortism and politics. This happens at other clubs too, but this was by far the worst I had experienced compared to my local club after I switched. Locally they care about you as a person. I wasn't a stand out or star player, but thought I was pretty good. Honestly the clubs ability to develop my or others skill and abilities is awful for the most part. There are(were)some good coaches back at Bangu, but now they just mainly want to win and could care less about you as a player. They like to pull the best players from clubs who developed them and claim them as their own or MTA will take an unskilled big, fast athlete who can't technically shoot, dribble or pass CORRECTLY and treat them like they are the next coming of Wombach without teaching them HOW to do these things correctly. When they tell you they develop players it is BS. They bring in kids whose parents have money and make sure they are on the top teams even though it is obvious there are better players on the lower level teams because they know it is a business. Unfortunatly Bangu became a business instead of a place for developing youth. This will screw you out of opportunities for the future. If your parent says something about anything to the coach, you will get benched and told not to question anything they do or else! All the positive things that happened along the way with friends was priceless, but not at the expense of being treated poorly by those who were there to be role models for me in soccer. I stuck it out because I got caught up in "being in the best club" but honestly would've been better off staying local. And I apologize to those coaches who are doing the right thing there or want to because I know they have a few.
For all those kids wanting to move to MTA, DON'T DO IT! My experience there was great at times, but not because of the club, coaching, or anthing else they offered. My first year there was exactly the same as my last. High cost, unorganization, unqualified coaches, lies, hypocracy, favortism and politics. This happens at other clubs too, but this was by far the worst I had experienced compared to my local club after I switched. Locally they care about you as a person. I wasn't a stand out or star player, but thought I was pretty good. Honestly the clubs ability to develop my or others skill and abilities is awful for the most part. There are(were)some good coaches back at Bangu, but now they just mainly want to win and could care less about you as a player. They like to pull the best players from clubs who developed them and claim them as their own or MTA will take an unskilled big, fast athlete who can't technically shoot, dribble or pass CORRECTLY and treat them like they are the next coming of Wombach without teaching them HOW to do these things correctly. When they tell you they develop players it is BS. They bring in kids whose parents have money and make sure they are on the top teams even though it is obvious there are better players on the lower level teams because they know it is a business. Unfortunatly Bangu became a business instead of a place for developing youth. This will screw you out of opportunities for the future. If your parent says something about anything to the coach, you will get benched and told not to question anything they do or else! All the positive things that happened along the way with friends was priceless, but not at the expense of being treated poorly by those who were there to be role models for me in soccer. I stuck it out because I got caught up in "being in the best club" but honestly would've been better off staying local. And I apologize to those coaches who are doing the right thing there or want to because I know they have a few.
I'm not sure there is much to address in that post.
I will say that any club that has some sort of longevity is going to have a small minority of player's with exactly the same issues as those addressed above. Anything greater than a small minority with issues = no real club longevity.
All clubs are businesses, regardless of what people say, and I'd suggest that the more business-like the club, the more successful the club... independent of W-L records.
ESS in Duluth canceled their tourney and kept all the money. Wow. I've heard bad stories about their organization before, but this is really poor decision. Granted, the city had a crazy storm. I guess the city closed the fields even though they were OK. I don't think the hospitality folks appreciated that. Anyway, a good gesture would have been to return some of the money. We won't be signing up to go there again.
Anyone know what's going on with MTA? Wondering if Mark Cook leaving has hurt club? Team (maybe teams) getting relegated. Other teams not doing so well. The ECNL 15's and 17's did very well in the B league. The other ages were a bust! Who's coaching for 2013? I'm wondering of coaches are leaving?
It would benefit all clubs to list their coaches for their top teams 13-17 at least 2 weeks before tryouts. As players and parents get smarter they realize the coach is much more important than the club logo.
If I ran a club I would take an ad out in soccer times (like 10 other clubs did) but I would post the coach for each team, his/her resume, playing level of the team (if known), and a web link to remaining game schedules so a player/parent could go watch a game or two. also include a link to the clubs development plan and training staff.
I have kids on top level teams and neither one knows who their respective coach is for next year two weeks before tryouts, Two different clubs both getting it wrong........
I would agree with you Dim Wit. I would love to see a list of coaches at clubs before even thinking about heading to their tryouts. Quality coaches would make a difference in where my kids tryout. On the flip side, I suppose clubs don't want to release a list of coaches too early in fear that it would scare some families away!
Congrats to Dakota Rev on providing the best player expectations and team information ahead of tryouts that I have ever seen.......All clubs should check out what they have done in terms of informing tryout players on costs, expectations, coaches, and team playing level for each team.
477 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 477 of 477From the inside of MTA, you're fairly correct 4:06pm.
100% dead on, except that the second teams were never really appealing to many.
6:27 I agree. I would also argue, almost without exception, that the second teams at every club fit the profile outlined above. Many players attend MTA tryouts and, if they do not make the top team, stay with their current club. Usually the second MTA teams are comprised mostly of players who started with MTA when they were younger and the friends they grew up playing with are on the team. If MTA's flow of young players (u9-U11s) continues to slow down you will see the number of second teams decrease over time (not counting the West, which is essentially a different club with the same badge).
MTA is still the most successful at consolidating talent in the state but that is not saying much as the talent is very spread out at several age groups. We have nothing like Eclipse which runs successfully in several Chicagoland areas and aggregates talent from both their community based teams and outside players. Nor of course do we have the large pool of players that Eclipse draws from.
7:09 -
If you find the club that puts their energy equally into their top 2 teams, let alone all of their teams as you stated, please let me know. Some clubs do it through pool training which I think is great but the ones I know only do it at the younger ages.
When parents have a child move from the top team to the second team the first thing you hear is "the team is not training enough, the players are not as serious, the coaching is not as good." These are the ones most likely to switch clubs. I would guess for every top talent player trying out at a different club to find a better environment their are 3-4 players trying out elsewhere as a back up in case they do not make the top team at their own club. The exception being at U14 where all the 13's that thought they would make premier and did not go tryout at the team that did.
How do people feel about a coach training the same kids for more than 2 years or keeping the same team for more than 2 years?
That would obviously depend upon who the coach is.
The coach is a parent.
Depends upon the parent/coach. What if your dad is Pele'?
10:13 here again-I also have said before, my kid's best coaches were parent coaches, far and away.
Parent is not Pele but a great motivator and average trainer who swears alot.
I'm fine with that. My kid is taught to behave in certain ways in certain situations. She has heard me sear, she doesn't (I assume she might around her friends from time to time). Mistakes are made and corrected. I am sure Tilsen regrets his behavior and will be fine.
In addition, in my sports experience, I had phenomenal coaches that swore a blue streak and those that didn't and coaches that never swore and were poor. I would choose a good or great coach that swears over one that isn't a good/great coach that doesn't.
5/17/12 7:56 AM here - How did Tilsen come in to this? I was wondering about people's feelings about coaches, not about Aaron swearing.
I am sure other coaches have done some of the same thing, but no one made such a reference. It all depends on who you are and if you are liked or not.
Back to the coaching question - is it good for a coach to have kids for more than 2 years? Do their words fall on to deaf ears? Could they possibly get better with numerous coaches and learn more (what to do or what not to do)?
Even at the u8 level? u10? u12? u14?
10:35 AM here -- I was responding to 10:29 AM.
10:35- Again, it depends. Usually a good coach is a good coach.
So swearing around u8 players is ok if the coach is a good coach? Unbelievable!
That isn't what was said. It also isn't ok to be on a referee for a game trying (and succeeding) to bend calls your way but we accept it all the time. It is just as objectionable as swearing, in fact, more so in my opinion.
Ok, let's go this way with the question then. Since everyone knows what a good coach is, let's hear your idea(s) of a good coach. What qualifies or quantifies a person as a good coach in your opinion(s)? What makes a good coach?
A good coach does not swear.
#1 Must be a motivator
#2 Must be a worker
#3 Technical knowledge/ability
#4 Tactical knowledge/ability
#5 Must be able to understand and identify where players fit. #5 could easily be #3.
This list could be bigger or smaller. Some coaches make up for a lack in one area with a strength in another.
2:06
I had several PHENONENAL coaches that swore. I agree it is certainly out of place for youth coaching but slips may occur.
So who are the best coaches in each age group? Anyone?
It's really difficult to know who the best coaches are because there's so much that goes into it... Very few people watching training sessions, see how the coach interacts with the players, see how the coach manages the team, etc. Sure there are some coaches that most would agree are very good but to know if they're the "best" would be very difficult both because quality of coaching really varies based on how the coach interacts with the players. Very few coaches can be "great" at coaching all types of players/personalities and many of the "best" coaches are assumed to be that because they have the most talented teams, does that make them the best coaches? I don't know.
Anyone have a top three coaches list for MU,EDP,MTA,DKT & SCV?
9:21 i'm sure you are on the list. :-)
9:37,
I better be =)
I'm the best that has ever coached this game!
9:21,
A lot of good coaches at all of those clubs. Usually the DOC will be the top coach.
9:09 PM Blah, blah blah. You could have just said I don't know!
Most people compare a good coach to their winning record. I think a good coach is one that brings the most out of a team and your athlete. Greg Wheatone is probably one of the best coaches in Minnesota for soccer. Greg has knowledge of the game at a high level, is an excellent trainer and coach, really connects with the players, has brought the best out of a lot of players in Minnesota and has the most class I have ever seen in a coach. Some honorable mentions would be Mark Abboud, Julie Ebensteiner, possibly Andy Kaasa, Steve McCord, Jonathan Schaffer, Chris Galbraith and PepeJon Chavez. All of these coaches and trainers have taken kids and young adults and developed them in to soccer players and brought the most out of kids throughout the soccer community in various ways.
Now, I am sure there are more out there, but these are the ones that are thought of off the cuff. Of course, this is just my opinion.
Great post 7:07. My daughter has worked with 3 of these coaches and I would absolutely agree.
SCV: Kogl, Zupfer, Klonecki
MU: GW,ZK
If clubs treated soccer like hockey..the district model might work. i.e. treat as competitive not rec program. Let the players who are dedicated have the opportunity to train and play with those as passionate about the game.(see lakeville)
Ok, this could start a firestorm, but thinking of going to MTA tryouts. Fairly postitive my kid won't make ECNL. Is it worth all that money to play on the "B" or "2nd" team? I heard colleges don't bother with the 2nd teams in a club with the exception of D3 schools (no scholarships).
5/20/12 9:08 AM - What age group are you thinking?
Two kids, ages for next year will be 14 and 16.
"I heard colleges don't bother with the 2nd teams in a club with the exception of D3 schools (no scholarships).'
Who tells you this stuff? Why do you believe them?
Contact coaches. Talk to the coaches where your player is interested in playing. They know much more than MTA or any other club. Some club DOC and coaches are good at communicating with college coaches.
There are many non-MTA players getting scholarships and going to non-scholarship schools. Remember, most college athletes don't get athletic scholarships, they play for the love of the game.
Don't believe what people tell you about how much this player or that player is getting either. Many times the "truth" isn't reality.
My main point was, is it even worth going to MTA? I don't care if my kids play D3 as long as they're happy playing. I was wondering if paying all that money to MTA is even worth it when you hear about other clubs (SCV, REV, EDP) getting scholarships or partials or just an offer to play in college.
I think you answered your own question.
I believe I did! Thanks!
Reach out and see if your daughters can guest play and see if they the players and the coach if they do have them try out know must clubs are very open to have kids guest play especially in July good way for both the guest player and the team she is interested in too figure out it would be a good fit.
Reach out and see if your daughters can guest play and see if they like the players and the coach if they do have them try out most clubs are very open to have kids guest play especially in July good way for both the guest player and the team she is interested in too figure out if would be a good fit.
Make sure when you have them guest play or you are paying attention to the age group, pay attention to the first and second teams. Some of hte second teams are ok, but others are not. Also, try to watch a few games, do not go based on one game. Each teams has their highs and each team has their lows. Make sure your daughter is getting what they want out of the coach, the team, the training and the game.
Ask to guest play with any club your daughters are interested in and they will make the decision for you. Rev ep mta ant St croix as you mentioned above are all good options with rev and mta having two good teams at both ages.
If your kid isn't "good enough" for the ECNL team they won't make either the REV or St Croix teams at these ages either. Both clubs teams at these ages are as good or better than the MTA ECNL teams. Honestly if they are not up to that level of play and you desire to be on a #1 team for a club plan on a low end Premier level or a good C1 team. You can monitor the MYSA standings to get a feel for the better teams by record and then start your research from that point.
Quote:
A month after being named the 2012 Hobey Baker Memorial Award winner as the top player in Division I men's hockey, Minnesota Duluth senior center Jack Connolly of Duluth sent a letter to Minnesota Hockey (formerly the Minnesota Amateur Hockey Association).
The letter, thanking the Minnesota hockey community for his development, was dated May 7 and forwarded to the News Tribune by Minnesota Hockey executive director Mike Snee of St. Paul. An edited version of the letter appears here.
Dear Minnesota Hockey:
I recently had the honor and privilege of being named the 2012 Hobey Baker Award recipient as the top men's college hockey player. Just typing that sentence causes all kinds of wonderful emotions and thoughts, but more than anything, it makes me realize how fortunate I am to be from Minnesota, especially Duluth.
I put my skates on for the first time in the warming house at the Duluth Heights outdoor rink when I was four. And some of the other four-year-old kids who were putting their skates on for the first time, next to me in the warming house, are still some of my best friends today, 18 years later.
We grew up on the outdoor ice rinks and eventually the indoor ice rinks in the Duluth area. My friends and I are extremely lucky to have been coached by so many wonderful people who instilled a passion and respect for the game. I was fortunate enough to play in the state high school tournament and eventually for my hometown Bulldogs, being part of a memorable team
that won the school's first Division I national championship. But it all started with the foundation that was built for me by the community hockey system that Minnesota has.
In recent years, I've been able to play on teams with players from all over North America. After talking about our childhood hockey experiences, I realized that hockey elsewhere is not quite like hockey in Minnesota.
As a mite and squirt playing for Duluth Heights, all I wanted to do was beat the other Duluth neighborhood teams. At the peewee and bantam level, I played for Duluth East, which increased my list of rivals. And in high school, at Duluth Marshall, the only thing better than a game against Hermantown, was a win against Hermantown.
All of this was done with my friends. All of this was done while living in the same house where I'd fall asleep as a four year old dreaming about hockey. All of this was done while continuing to play soccer at a high level throughout high school. I didn't join an all-star team of 10-year-old kids in the winter and go to tournaments in Quebec City or Buffalo. I played with kids from across the alley and down the street, and a big road trip was a tournament in Coleraine. I didn't move away at age 14 to pursue my hockey dreams. Instead I stayed home to play the game I love with my friends.
I did develop. I developed as a hockey player and a person, and for that I want to thank everyone involved in hockey in Minnesota: the coaches at Duluth Heights who picked me up when I fell as a four year old and those connected with Minnesota Hockey who oversee the community associations. I truly appreciate all that you have done for me and other young players in Minnesota.
I encourage you to keep doing it because hockey in Minnesota works and is indeed special. From the bottom of my brand new Hobey Baker Award, thank you.
Jack Connolly
What do you think?
Really, this is a soccer blog!
Did you read it? The point is the young man developed in his community program and reached a very high level. This model (community based) works. If everyone stayed home, no one would need to leave for "development".
model will not work unless soccer is viewed with the same passion as hockey. From the local club perspective and parent/participant standpoint. (training, commitment, fitness,attendance, competitiveness)
For those involved in soccer, their passion is the same as those with passion for hockey (or basketball, baseball, etc.).
The difference is that hockey keeps players in their community clubs except for select teams usually after the club season.
If this model was followed, the result would be similar for soccer as it is for hockey.
9:27 I certainly agree unfortunately there are not as many "passionate" for the game of soccer in Minnesota thus creating a training environment with 3-4 per community team with the interest to develop to their fullest potential. (I would suggest that 90+% of those involved in community hockey are passionate.) Also there is a overall lack of qualified parents/paid trainers with the expertise or passion to provide quality training. other athletes just use it as an outlet to stay in shape or compete as a second sport. it's not about scholarships or professional aspirations it's about doing your best to be the best you can. (i.e. many kids dream of being president of the united states so the study hard, make good choices, find the best schools, but the % chance that they ever have this chance is very slim. Are they just wasting time, effort and money?)
I don't believe there are any more or less qualified coaches for soccer vs hockey.
Following the model of recruiting and collecting athletes under the guise of "development" which is only a clever marketing strategy, a Rooney, Wambaugh,
Marta, Boxx would never be able to "develop" as they are clear stand outs How do they improve? Bunch of marketing hype. Parents believe, same way con artists take people's money suckers want to believe.
can someone tell me what the average hockey family spends per year for a single child. please include equipment & tournaments..
do the community hockey players take the fall, spring or summer off or do they participate on club teams or leagues? are there any competitive programs offered for those who may be on the higher end of the talent? Minnesota Made? Bantam? Girls playing in boys leagues? Are the additional opportunities free or are there fees associated?
Maybe MNF can add a tab "Hockey talk!"
so if we're commenting on the state of Minnesota Girls Club soccer and there is an attempt to draw a couple of comparisons with club hockey it creates an issue? if I ended with I hate MTA would it make it more appropriate??
You can't compare hockey to soccer and why do we keep trying to do this year after year. It's not going to change. It is what it is!
we choose not to compare because it's not convenient to those whose primary sport is not soccer.. a family of a hockey player who pays a thousand+ per season is normal and a young lady paying the same amount is crazy because she'll never be a professional... let them play where they want, pay what they want and don't try to fit square pegs in round holes.
Sorry, but the odds of the hockey player becoming a professional is miniscule too. That argument doesn't hold water especially for girls-is there a professional hockey league for women?
2:17 PM -- get off this site!
The soccer gods at Bangu decided to replicate the club models in Chicago and elsewhere, thinking that the same model would succeed here. MTA has had some successes and failures but I think many would agree that the MTA model is not the best and only model for MN.
While I'm not suggesting that the hockey model is the model that should be followed for soccer here, I think the soccer gods could learn some valuable lessons from youth hockey development in MN and on a national level. One of the biggest differences between hockey and soccer is the unstructured development that happens at young ages at ponds and parks across MN. How often do you see a group of kids (especially non-immigrants) kicking the ball or playing in a pickup game at the park just for fun? The elite high school hockey age player also has many options to pursue -- stay in high school, play junior hockey in US or in Canada, play in college, play in the US national team development program in Michigan, etc. -- with each option giving that player a great chance of schieving his/her dream. What options does the elite high school age soccer player or Freddy Adu-type of player have?
No more hockey talk......
Stay in your community if you want but don't get mad if some of your DD's teammates leave for another club. Free choice for all to make. My kids have made different choices. One plays in our/her community club and one plays at a club that consolidates talent.
In the end you cannot argue that having like minded and talented players train together is best for development. If you find that in the community you live in great. If you do not move on and do not feel bad about it.
5:20 PM -- choice is important even for average soccer players.
Touche!
For all those kids wanting to move to MTA, DON'T DO IT! My experience there was great at times, but not because of the club, coaching, or anthing else they offered. My first year there was exactly the same as my last. High cost, unorganization, unqualified coaches, lies, hypocracy, favortism and politics. This happens at other clubs too, but this was by far the worst I had experienced compared to my local club after I switched. Locally they care about you as a person. I wasn't a stand out or star player, but thought I was pretty good. Honestly the clubs ability to develop my or others skill and abilities is awful for the most part. There are(were)some good coaches back at Bangu, but now they just mainly want to win and could care less about you as a player. They like to pull the best players from clubs who developed them and claim them as their own or MTA will take an unskilled big, fast athlete who can't technically shoot, dribble or pass CORRECTLY and treat them like they are the next coming of Wombach without teaching them HOW to do these things correctly. When they tell you they develop players it is BS. They bring in kids whose parents have money and make sure they are on the top teams even though it is obvious there are better players on the lower level teams because they know it is a business. Unfortunatly Bangu became a business instead of a place for developing youth. This will screw you out of opportunities for the future. If your parent says something about anything to the coach, you will get benched and told not to question anything they do or else! All the positive things that happened along the way with friends was priceless, but not at the expense of being treated poorly by those who were there to be role models for me in soccer. I stuck it out because I got caught up in "being in the best club" but honestly would've been better off staying local. And I apologize to those coaches who are doing the right thing there or want to because I know they have a few.
For all those kids wanting to move to MTA, DON'T DO IT! My experience there was great at times, but not because of the club, coaching, or anthing else they offered. My first year there was exactly the same as my last. High cost, unorganization, unqualified coaches, lies, hypocracy, favortism and politics. This happens at other clubs too, but this was by far the worst I had experienced compared to my local club after I switched. Locally they care about you as a person. I wasn't a stand out or star player, but thought I was pretty good. Honestly the clubs ability to develop my or others skill and abilities is awful for the most part. There are(were)some good coaches back at Bangu, but now they just mainly want to win and could care less about you as a player. They like to pull the best players from clubs who developed them and claim them as their own or MTA will take an unskilled big, fast athlete who can't technically shoot, dribble or pass CORRECTLY and treat them like they are the next coming of Wombach without teaching them HOW to do these things correctly. When they tell you they develop players it is BS. They bring in kids whose parents have money and make sure they are on the top teams even though it is obvious there are better players on the lower level teams because they know it is a business. Unfortunatly Bangu became a business instead of a place for developing youth. This will screw you out of opportunities for the future. If your parent says something about anything to the coach, you will get benched and told not to question anything they do or else! All the positive things that happened along the way with friends was priceless, but not at the expense of being treated poorly by those who were there to be role models for me in soccer. I stuck it out because I got caught up in "being in the best club" but honestly would've been better off staying local. And I apologize to those coaches who are doing the right thing there or want to because I know they have a few.
Ok, so I have to ask - Jen Lysum, are you really a player or are you a parent?
How do others feel about the Jen Lysum post - on how MTA runs their business??
Outspoken,
I'm not sure there is much to address in that post.
I will say that any club that has some sort of longevity is going to have a small minority of player's with exactly the same issues as those addressed above. Anything greater than a small minority with issues = no real club longevity.
All clubs are businesses, regardless of what people say, and I'd suggest that the more business-like the club, the more successful the club... independent of W-L records.
ESS in Duluth canceled their tourney and kept all the money. Wow. I've heard bad stories about their organization before, but this is really poor decision. Granted, the city had a crazy storm. I guess the city closed the fields even though they were OK. I don't think the hospitality folks appreciated that. Anyway, a good gesture would have been to return some of the money. We won't be signing up to go there again.
This blog is dead!
Anyone know what's going on with MTA? Wondering if Mark Cook leaving has hurt club? Team (maybe teams) getting relegated. Other teams not doing so well. The ECNL 15's and 17's did very well in the B league. The other ages were a bust!
Who's coaching for 2013? I'm wondering of coaches are leaving?
It would benefit all clubs to list their coaches for their top teams 13-17 at least 2 weeks before tryouts. As players and parents get smarter they realize the coach is much more important than the club logo.
If I ran a club I would take an ad out in soccer times (like 10 other clubs did) but I would post the coach for each team, his/her resume, playing level of the team (if known), and a web link to remaining game schedules so a player/parent could go watch a game or two. also include a link to the clubs development plan and training staff.
I have kids on top level teams and neither one knows who their respective coach is for next year two weeks before tryouts, Two different clubs both getting it wrong........
I would agree with you Dim Wit. I would love to see a list of coaches at clubs before even thinking about heading to their tryouts. Quality coaches would make a difference in where my kids tryout.
On the flip side, I suppose clubs don't want to release a list of coaches too early in fear that it would scare some families away!
Congrats to Dakota Rev on providing the best player expectations and team information ahead of tryouts that I have ever seen.......All clubs should check out what they have done in terms of informing tryout players on costs, expectations, coaches, and team playing level for each team.
new blog for 2013, let's behave!
http://minnesotasoccerblog.blogspot.com/
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