Agree Isanti is a less than ideal drive for most. Since it is the location however, does anyone have knowledge on the quality of the fields? It seems the LWB fields were kind of small. What would be the downside to having the State Cup divisions play at multiple sites? divided by age groups. I know it would require a few more field marshalls but it would open the door to more clubs being willing to host.
2/14/11 9:49 AM asked, What would be the downside to having the State Cup divisions play at multiple sites? divided by age groups.
This has been tried in a very limited way, last year, the year before etc. Not a disaster, but not great either.
One downside would be inconsistent referee assigning. State Cup is one of the few competitions in MN that gets the higher rated referees together. MYSA already pays less than almost every club, and if you only get one game most top level refs are going to pass on accepting the games and do an adult game or tournament somewhere else. Many will pass on Isanti anyway-due to drive time and cost of gas...
The fields in Isanti are good but not great, they do have less wear on them than most of the past locations. Like any complex the spring weather will go a long way to determining field quality. I don't recall a ton of complaints (about the fields) when games were hosted there in the past. State Cup is always going to be issue as you need a location that is "willing" to host the games. Hosting the event does offer some benefits for the local club but also serves to stress the membership, because in most cases there are very few members who actually volunteer their time to help the club.
Isanti does not have lights, thus I would think your going to see just weekend games, which means weather delays could really cause issues with the tournament. Travel is always going to be a problem, but traveling out to LWB was also quite a drive for many of the teams.
LWB did not have lights either. Game schedule will include games during the week, difficult start times for any coaches, parents, and referees who work normal hours.
I seem to recall MN having a huge soccer complex with solid fields located about 15 minutes north of downtown Mpls. I think it was called National Soccer Complex in a city called Blane.
I don't know why this great tournament wouldn't be held there.
4:34 - It's huge, but the fields are not quality. Drainage ponds with no fencing around them. Parking is horrible at the north end. The fields are bumpy and hard and full of quack grass and weeds. The venue is not worthy of the title National Sports complex.
NSC isn't used because most of the fields don't meet the minimum dimensions needed to host the event. Only U1 & U2 are the right size. The rest are too narrow.
Seeds are based on what happened at last year's State Cup. Whoever won the pool bracket last year got top seeds this year. Then each team representative goes up and draws a chip out of a bag in a blind draw.
437, Stop the crying. I believe it is based on the luck or in your case the unluck of the draw. There is no conspiracy against MTA or Shattucks when it comes to these drawings. Maybe other things, but in this case no.
I'm an MTA parent and yes it seems like MYSA prefers (along with others) that we didn't exist. But, the drawing is fair. MYSA handles it the best way they can. There are representatives from each team present during the drawing. It all comes down to the luck of the draw and I truly doubt that MYSA are magicians and can switch those chips inside the basket (soccer ball basket)!
The U14 age group at Mta has lost close to 10 kids off the Blue/ White teams that are quality players over the last 2 seasons. This is good for Mn soccer as all the talent is no longer consolidated to one team at the State Level. But, not so good for MTA at this age group as they try to compete in the Region, or as they move to compete against the Developmental Academy Teams in the future. MTA will need all the best talent in the state to compete at the level of a Chicago team such as the Sockers or Fire. I do not think MTA has beat either of these top tier teams? May be wrong though.
MTA u14 Boys beat the #3 ranked team (Ironbound SC Elite) in Region 1 last weekend by a score of 3-0. Nice result for a team that hasn't played outside since last October. I think the u14 MTA boys will be tough to beat come May in Minnesota.
MTA U14 boys tied Manhattan SC 1-1 in the same event last weekend. Manhattan SC is ranked #4 in the nation in gotsoccer.com Anyway you slice it those boys had a great weekend against national class competition. Kudos to them for representing Minnesota in fine fashion. Based on these early results it will be tough for any local team to play with MTA U14s this year.
Gotsoccer.com is not really accurate, in my opinion. They just go by how many points a team has collected over a certain time period. If a good team (i.e. Michigan Hawks Girls U14 girls who won the region 2 championship last year as U13’s) does not play any tournaments, they will not collect any points. One could argue it means they are not a good team, but they (Michigan Hawks) did beat the MTA U14 girls team last year (as they were U13’s), which is considered to be the top girls team in Minnesota at their age group. And, if you look at the web site (http://www.region2.com/2010RegionIIChampionsGirls.asp), you will see Michigan hawks won at 3 different age groups and Eclipse won a few as well. Just one persons opinion.
Aaah, you hit on the marketing genius of USA soccer. Post rankings based on how many tournaments a team has played. Tell those parents they need to work and train a little bit harder. Suck parents and kids into thinking where their team is rank matters. Tell those families and players that if they win State Cup and go to regions they will be considered elite.
Then tell families that in order to develop better quality leagues we need to develop an elite league where we take the best of the best out and have them play in a league that doesn’t compete with the other teams. To make things fair that system doesn’t get rank in the other system. Because if you ranked them then the kids still playing in league below them would stop chasing the dream.
The whole system is set up for families to spend more and more money chasing a dream only to realize that your kid is a good athlete and has had fun playing soccer but could have achieved the same thing for about 20K less. Welcome to middle class USA Soccer.
Cynical…. Yeah but it has a lot of truth in it too.
What is the cheaper solution…. How about eliminating single age groups? Instead of an age group for birth year, how about something like this ’93 thru ‘96 ’96 thru ‘99 ’99 thru ‘02 ’02 thru ‘05 In other words make age groups in three year groups. Thus you don’t have to travel so far, competition becomes greater locally and also become cheaper. I think my system would develop more player and better players.
Europe's Academy system is funded by pro team. Don't cost families nothing (actually cost the families less) and ensures that tbe best players play.
USA academy system is funded by parents so some players are on the team to fund others. Not always the best players sometimes the players with best finanacial backing. Ok, a bit less cynical view is some players get a chance to prove/develop themselves while funding the development of others. No matter how you slice it USA soccer cost considerable more to families/players than families/players in Europe, South American, ect.....
Europe has players playing in multi age groups way before they get into a academy system. JMHO :)
Just an observation, MTA U14 boys may very well take State Cup again this year. It looks like two St. Paul teams will challenge them though based on what I saw in the indoor leagues this winter. Here is the real problem for this MTA age group long term. In the last two season there have been 10 players that have left the Blue and White team for other options. THere will most likely be more that will leave after this season. Other players in the state will not play for the current scenario. As MTA looks down the road to be a Academy team and compete regionally or nationally they can't lose talent. Bottom line is there is not enough to go around in the state. Not to mention now you have another academy just down the road also recruiting this age group, and beating both MTA USSDA teams handily this winter. You don't need to look outside the region, I believe MTA14s have struggled in Region II with teams like the Chicago Soccers and Chicago FIre. While I think it is a good team that the talent is more spread out in teams around the state for a good state cup, it is a bad thing for MTA when talent continues to leave this age group and dilute the eventual Academy team. Just an observation.
What I said was "The u17 boys pools just show that seeding more than a couple teams is necessary."
I didn't say that the draw was rigged.
Common sense should prevail even at State Cup. Everyone knows who is strong and who is not as strong. Clearly, the two C1 teams should not be in the same pool.
Nor should two very strong teams. Seed all the teams. You would find a much better and realiztic winner each year...
The challenge with seeding is, "Says who?" How do you rank teams? (Please don't suggest the meaningless "gotsoccer.com" rankings.) The current system rewards teams that win their bracket from the year before, and makes everything else random. The challenge at 17B is PSA smoked Shattuck (4-1) last year in pool play to win the group, but were decimated when all of their star players moved to MTA's Academy team. Should PSA have been given a top seed?
It appears both SSM and MTA were runners up at U16B last year...actually SSM didn't even advance. Methinks the best team is still playing State Cup at U17B.
Much talk over the years of MTA dominance and "other clubs on the rise" but when you look at it, this year may be the year that MTA has the complete sweep at State Cup. Girls side. 13- clearly the strongest team. 14- No brainer the strongest team 15- again look to be the best team. 16- Weak age group but still MTA strongest. 17- easy win again for 17's 18- well this age group may be the chance for someone else to break the streak.
Sure every group has a couple stronger teams but nobody else has the talent,coaching and experience playing in big games. ECNL has helped the MTA players know how to get ready for tough competition and big games.
Same goes for boys side: U13-U16 is a lock for MTA. U17 it will be close with SCV and MU being in the mix. U18 who knows. So based on 251's post, MTA will get a minimum of 9 state champs.
What is best for MN soccer and US soccer is MTA. If you call that arrogance than whatever. MTA sweeps, so be it. If another club team moves onto regionals and does great than I'll still be proud. Whatever is good for soccer in Minnesota.
I always love the confidence (arrogance) that MN Clubs have as they march into State Cup. Then they come slithering home from Regionals to make it another year since 1990 that MN hasn't won a National Championship.
9:15, Are you saying that MN should not send any of the State Cup Champs to Regions? Why even hold the tournament? Better yet, why even play the sport? Why do you even get out of bed everyday? Most would rather try and show confidence.
9:31am YES! Why can't we just cheer for our club to win State Cup and cross our fingers and hope they do well in regionals. If they don't, than oh well, but give them the confidence to go out and try. I guess 9:15 is saying why bother to even try, just quit! 3 movies that might lift your spirit 9:15 and give you some hope; Rocky, Miracle and Any Given Sunday. I'm guessing when times get tough, you just quit!
I don't think the above posts can be considered "just cheering." Pretty arrogant "cheering" to predict wins as "no-brainers."
"Most would rather try and show confidence"
Confidence or arrogance? When you're predicting an MTA sweep as "easy no-brainers that aren't close," is MTA the only club that should have confidence in MN? Does Hoosiers not apply to the other MN clubs? The hypocrisy.
It's funny when MN teams have the nerve to talk smack in March when every July for 20 years MN teams get spanked at Regions.
MN last won a National Championship in 1992 when Burnsville U16 girls did it. However, we've had 5 teams that have won regionals in the past 9 years - Bangu U13 girls in '07, Bangu U17 & 18 girls in '02 & '03, SSM U18 boys in '08 and '10.
Does your child train indoors? Do you pay the coach, or have a "parent" run training.
Is the team your child trains with having success?
Does the club allow kids who are looking outside their community team?
If you have the answer to less expensive, challenging, successful soccer please share. And Please, don't pull back and give the winning isn't everything @#$%^. I said success, not 100% winning...
Gotta love the SCV 17B hoosiers story. 6 of the original 8 U9s are still with the team (can anyone else claim anything near that?). They beat 3 MTA teams and 2 very good MU teams (someone else knocked out SSM) to win State Cup last year.
Ive seen the TCF U-16 team and they are a good team.What gets old is hearing about how great MTA is. They have good teams but to say they are going to win everything is arrogant.How many soccer games are determined by a lucky bounce or a great play that change the whole outcome of any given game.Ive been waiting to start hearing about MTA its nice to see nothing has changed on this blog. There are many players that have switched there teams and have made the new club they play for better.
MTA fans rise up when other people start putting them down or calling them arrogant. There are also many players from other club teams that have moved to MTA. It's up to the player, play were you're comfortable if that MTA, Wayzata, TCF, etc. Will MTA sweep, I'm hoping, but in reality I don't think that will happen. Do I want the Vikings to win the Super Bowl and the Twins to win the World Series? Yes I do, but in reality that probably won't happen either. The point is, go ahead and talk up your club and don't put down other clubs. Be proud of where you play!
The below comment shows how narrowminded and ignorant Mr. Soccer (aka I think I know what's best for soccer) is about soccer development in MN and in general.
Mr. Soccer said... What is best for MN soccer and US soccer is MTA.
3/24/11 4:12 PM asked "Does the club allow kids who are looking outside their community team?"
What does that mean?
Does your club allow players who are not from your community? Does it allow kids who don't have an option at their own community club that fits their needs, desire, or level of play?
Many clubs don't, others bash MTA but do the same thing...
MTA all the way!!! woohoo!!! Yeah we can't win regionals or nationals but who else can do it from MN? MTA is probably the best hope we have! Other states do it by gathering up the best players and put them together...MTA is trying to do that but the rest of MN do not like it.
St. Croix, Woodbury, Valley United and Eden Prairie have won multiple State Cups (in the last handful of years - and usually with players from all over).
SPU 14s? are they the same team who lost to SCV in the league championship a few weeks ago? NO WAY they are beating MTA Blue. The parents that keep causing disruption on every team their kid is on need to take him back to his true age.
Any team that can rise to a high level of play by DEVELOPING players vs continually recruiting deserves my compliments. I think it is laughable how several "community based clubs" criticize MTA for their recruiting. Look at any Premier level team in MN and you will find that within the first year or two most of those teams have gotten rid of most of the kids that earned the Premier spot in the first place. It's really kind of sad because these coaches act like they are so pure when in fact they are doing the exact same thing MTA does. Recruiting is part of youth soccer like it or not. Some coaches seem to be consumed with finding the "perfect roster" the roster that never exists.
Like Mr. Soccer, Mister Soccer is an ignoramus when he say's: "MTA probably is great for MN Soccer just like La Masia is great for Spain Soccer." Comparing a rotten apple to a juicy orange is silly.
Seriously folks. Someone explain why you hate MTA and Shattuck? Please list valid reasons. We don't need to hear; because they recruit from other teams (all high levels teams from every club recruit from other clubs), too much training (most high level teams teams/clubs train 3+ days a week), too expensive (break everything down from your club and I bet it would compare to MTA maybe not Shattuck). All of these are not valid points. I really would love to hear some responses, because I'm finding that people hate what they don't know or are come across jealous.
MTA can't really take credit for Cropper. As long as his dad is who he is, he'd be where he is if he played for my club. Frankly, he doesn't even list MTA (or Minnesota) on his resume anymore.
Just because you say SPU over MTA over and over again doesn't make it true! Both are great teams. Both have talented players. Coaching and club preference are simply that - a personal choice. I think someone needs to worry less about the "weeping" parents and concentrate more on developing good soccer players. Of course, that means the world will have to stop revolving around you....
Please refrain from the club bashing. This is State Cup...a chance for players to see how they stack up. Still the most exciting tournament in the state. Can we enjoy the competition and encourage sportspersonship?
3:29, you're probably right, though Cropper's dad had the connections to open all the right doors overseas. Bunbury and Miller were developed here and are studs.
LoveMTA -- for some it has nothing to with hate. The problem is that some of us don't agree with the single club-best player model as the only or best way to develop better soccer players in MN. Both MTA and Shattuck are simply good alternatives.
Everyone slams how MN does in regionals and maybe beyond, but yet they don't agree with "single club-best" player model. What if we didn't have MTA or Shattuck. Do you really think your little CC would go far with the one or two superstars on your team?
Just like how the '92 Boys were never willing to combine onto one team and make a serious run at the National Tournament - this comes from MN wanting to be the best in MN but not caring about being the best in the US.
12:37pm -- You look at the regional and national results, dimwit! Create a select team of some of the best players in the metro area and it will win most of the time in MN. But is that good for soccer dvelopment in MN???
12:37, Look a little deeper. We actually have several players involved in US Youth National teams right now. This is a recent development as it wasn't happening 5-10 years ago with any degree of regularity other than the 1 age group with Sanneh and Lagos.
3:33, bingo. MTA does not add incremental value. They merely gather some of the best players in the metro area. They do not make them better, which would prove itself out in regional/national success (like SSM already sees with their limited number of teams).
4:58... So how do we account for Minnesota having more boys in the national pool and on national teams the past few years than ever in our history? Guess what club most of these kids belong to?
When I played in MN, I think I had one "good" coach and the rest were bums. I improved the most when playing with top-level teammates, competing against them regularly in training.
Considering that, the collection of players at MTA would definitely put MTA on the top of my list.
Even if consolidation of talent happens, MN is still not competitive in the large scheme of things as a whole. Take a look at the ODP results, that is the exact measure of what you seek.
I am for consolidation, but not for the same reasons as everyone seems to be pointing to. I personally have not been focused on wins by a team in MN, during youth soccer. My concern is that my daughter was "consolidated" with like minded and skilled players to prepare her to play at higher levels after youth soccer. It is called development, folks.
Very simplistic- if your child is the best player on his/her team.....he/she is gaining the least from every training session. The closer others are in his/her skill level and knowledge of the game, the more he/she gains.
As far as coaching goes, if you want a very basic litmus test of how skilled your coach is make ONE observation: DO PLAYERS STAND IN LINE AT PRACTICE WAITING TO PERFORM A DRILL? If the answer is "yes", then you have a problem.
MN should have one central club that all the best players want to play for. It would be MN's version of Dallas Texans, FC Delco, MI Hawks, CO Rush, Chicago Sockers or Scott Gallagher.
That club could make a run at national competitions. Players would strive to make that club, similar to players in Catalonia striving to enter La Masia. This would raise the level for all clubs in MN.
I would say MTA is the closest thing to establishing this - too bad MTA'ers so arrogantly go about their business.
Something that all the previous posters have ignored is that MN has a relatively small population compared to powerhouse states like CA, TX, IL, OH. With seven times the population of MN, CA will has seven times the number of elite players from which to draw. Plus there are cultural differences. Not to mention MN's climate really hinders year-round play. Consolidation won't come close to addressing these issues. And consolodation only works if everyone buys into it. There are players and parents that just do not want to be part of a massive club system due to cost, time commitment, or the travel distance just for training.
My beef with the elite clubs in MN is that many (not all) of them recruit players not for the players' sakes, but to make their teams better. If a better player comes along next year, someone gets dumped. And they use their lower-level teams and rec programs to financiall support the elite teams. But that's what we have and complaining about it isn't going to change it. And we'll never be at the level of other countries because we'll never have the professional club oversight of youth soccer like you see in South America and Europe.
12:56, population and weather aren't valid excuses. MI, OH, MO, CO all have smaller youth population bases in their metro areas vs. MSP metro, and also crappy weather, but have much stronger club programs.
Other excuses in MN are we don't have an MLS team and we don't have a UofM Men's team. I suppose these can be considered cultural differences (as cited above).
But we do have the NSC Stars, a UofM Club team and the MIAC...we're set up for mediocrity.
Michigan, Illinois, Colorado and Ohio have had a big head start on Minnesota when it comes to consolidating talent. Minnesota is just beginning to catch up and the USSF Academy and ECNL will speed up that process in the next few years. College coaches will be asking players if they're participating in the USSF Academy and ECNL Showcases as those will be college coaches preferred venues for scouting talent.
3:24... the answer to your question is Title IX. Unless the U can find another women's sport to equal out the number of scholarships, it can't happen. And with money being tight, the school won't be adding new sports any time soon (and the reason for men's gymnastics instead of soccer is that men's gymnastics was around before most Minnesotans even heard of soccer).
505, If they recruited only Minnesota kids the parents would come to games!!! Thats about 40 to start with, Coaches family, Goldy, Refs,brothers and sisters (but you can only recruit players that come from large families) You might get close to 100!!!
Look at the attendance the Women's Gophers Soccer team draws. A men's team would draw much larger crowds than women's games just like they do for men's basketball and hockey compared to the women's teams. I'm not saying it would be a revenue positive addition immediately but it would create a lot of excitement in the state and for the school.
U of M men's gynmastics has produced Olypians. (any MN Olypian Futbol players?) Attacking another sport is not going to help soccer. It is sad to think that you belive that attacking another sport is somehow going to help soccer - the biggest sport in the world. Seriously!
Gynastics,wrestling, chess or whatever are not soccer competition. Soccer has no real competition you morons. Attacking other activities puts YOU all in the category of the assholes that call soccer players "field fairies".
Seriously grow the f up. MN is a hockey state and saying "well at least we're better than these others sports" is so lame that you just em bare ass the sport.
All I hope is that the above posts atacking gymnastics and wresting, is not made by someone who is a coach and I pray that you are not parents because you are the worst thing that could ever happen to soccer in MN or the US.
8:45pm Why are you on a soccer blog if? And your language, come on grow up! Hopefully Splitsville means we will no longer have to listen to your nonsense!
Think about it there is a reason why I love to go watch men's gymnastics and wrestling more than soccer!! ;) Soccer is just so icky compared to what happens on a mat! ;)
Now let's please go back to state cup talk. I don't want to know what happened in men's gymnastics or wrestling. Both fine sports, but this blog is about soccer and this category is about State Cup.
I see many girls teams are heading to Rockford and Des Moines in the next few weeks. It will fun to hear those results. I see that Just for Girls has many MN teams who will be playing each other down there.
Splitsville, could you tell us what happens on "a mat"? And by the way, you are talking about attacking other sports, you are attacking soccer! So does that make you any better?
Dear Splitsville, Please leave our soccer blog and go find a blog that talks about men's gymnastics and wrestling. You came on our soccer blog and attacked soccer and read us the riot attack because we were attacking your sports. We weren't attacking your sports, we merely were wishing that the UofM would drop one of those and add a men's soccer team. We also don't use colorful names to belittle people and we don't have to swear to make our points.
Now unless the UofM wrestling team and the gymnastics team fielded a soccer team and they're playing in state cup, let's go back to soccer and state cup talk. Love, Minnesota Soccer Fans!
Fortunately everything that is written on this blog is completely factual.......
I guess a better question is for an older age team of 18 players that will be training for 9 months (nothing going on during the high school season) what should a quality professional coach be paid? How many hours do you think they average each week factoring in practice prep, practice time, dealing with players/parent inquiries during the week, MRL/MYSL/ECNL league play and travel, tournaments - planning/traveling/games, etc...? Strictly the coaching costs not the monthly fees which usually also include field costs, league fees, tournament entry costs, etc...
Let's look at this coach getting paid $12K for 9 months. If there are 18 players on the team that works out to $74 per player per month. Those types of teams are averaging training/playing at least 4 times weekly/16 times per month over the course of the 9 months. That works out to $4.62 per session ($3.08 per hour if session is 90 minutes) per player. All in all a pretty good deal with a quality coach.
Splitsville – you do NOT want to talk about spelling! Your post on 3/31/2011 at 8:45 PM has quite a few spelling errors!
For a person that loves gymnastics so much, maybe you should learn how to spell the word! The “M” comes BEFORE the “N”! Olypian?!?! Or should that be Olympian?!?! Believe does have 3 “E”’s in it. Again, it is GYMNASTICS! Atacking?!?!?!?!?!?! Should that be ATTACKING?!
You may want to use Microsoft Word to spell check your poor spelling.
Now, is there still an argument on who will not be respected?
Just like wins and players, when it comes to blog posts, I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week. Would be nice if user names were required.
MTA 14s lost a couple of players to S.T. Paul UNtied this year and will challenge the MTA 14s if not beat them saw both teams play in winter league's and scrimmages. Should be a great state cup this year come may.
USSF Development Academy rules: "To maintain a focus on training, Academy teams do not play in any other leagues, tournaments, State Cup competitions, ODP or All-Star events without written permission from Academy staff. Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only 2 exceptions: high school soccer and national team duty."
What does this do to MTA and SSM State Cup entries in the DA age groups? Are MTA and SSM willing to violate USSF DA rules just one year into their respective DA tenures?
Or will these Clubs be fielding their "B" players/teams for State Cup? Or are rules being bent in defining no single Academy player as "full time"?
State Cup team rosters are sent to the USSF for DA verification purposes. Maybe the USSF turns a blind eye to these violations, especially in less nationally competitive states like Minnesota?
Academy players that have been designated as FT (full team/fulltime) can't play in State Cup but the other players may participate as has been explained to me. If you look at the MTA and Shattuck academy sites you'll see their players who are designated as FT and DP (Developmental).
4/5/11 5:37 PM Pleeeeeeeeeeze, give us a break. Your ignorance and fear of seeing your child lose is amazing.
Read up rules before you show your ignorance. Look at the MTA website, the USSF site it has all the info you need in easy to find and EASY TO READ format.
Think it through. MTA obviously has more than the two DA teams. They had multiple teams at each age group one year ago, why would they only have two teams now?
Yes, they really do have a 16's team, a 17's team, and 18's team. Yes they are going to play State Cup. No they won't be violating any rules, laws or morals.
And yes, some of those teams will even lose, and/or tie some of their games.
Read from http://www.ussoccer.com/Teams/Development-Academy/Academy-Overview.aspx
"To maintain a focus on training, Academy teams do not play in any other leagues, tournaments, State Cup competitions, ODP or All-Star events without written permission from Academy staff. Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only 2 exceptions: high school soccer and national team duty."
In response to your comment of "...the USSF site it has all the info you need in easy to find and EASY TO READ format", I have included the link for your review. Who's ignorant?
Yes, we all know MTA has multiple teams at these age levels. My son is a U14 MTA player.
My question was posed to gain clarity on what occurs when the top MTA/SSM players play on the Academy teams. The USSF statement implies that those players could not play State Cup, and thus the Clubs' "next best" (non-full time-DA, or "B" team) players would have to take their respective places.
The tenor of your ignorance and arrogance makes me laugh. Perhaps an explanation, reference, or non-judgmental reply would suffice. Live and learn.
To non-MTA affiliates,
Please do not lump all MTA players, coaches, and parents into the same group as the author to whom I am responding. Most of us actually are in it for the love of this beautiful game and not for the false/purchased feelings of small-town pride.
As an outsider to DAP, Academy, US Club, Elite, FT, MTA, Blue Rosters and DP, I've tried reading these websites to figure things out and I'm left thoroughly mind-boggled.
The rules and restrictions of US Youth Soccer reeks of soccer mommies and minivans.
Why not just let the kids play when they want to play?
Mister Soccer - As a soccer mommy who drives a mini-van I would beg to differ. I would say it reeks of over zealous administrators, some of what we see at MYSA.
I do agree let the kids play when they want to play!
4/5/11 5:37 PM, So what your saying is you do not understand what your own club is doing and go to a blog to "ask". Talk about ignorance.
MTA 17s dad said nothing ignorant, and nothing that could be construed by an intelligent human to be false/purchased feelings of small-town pride.
Let me copy and paste directly from your post.
Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only 2 exceptions: high school soccer and national team duty."
That means, Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only 2 exceptions: high school soccer and national team duty. Since State Cup is not an exception, they obviously cannot play State Cup. DUH
By the way, I see you do not practice what you preach and leave non-judgemental posts.
Many Community clubs say they offer year-round training. However it is difficult to replicate the training environment or level of coaching that players receive at MTA. Each year at the U13-U19 levels, players come from clubs across the Twin Cities in hopes of making our elite teams. Many of these players come without the proper technical foundation and therefore are not good enough to make our Elite teams. They may be the best players at their community club, but it is often too late technically for these players to compete at the Regional and National levels where our teams compete. We give our U9-U12 players their best chance by properly teaching the fundamentals at this critical stage of a player’s soccer development.
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1 – 200 of 1493 Newer› Newest»WTF...WHO WAS THE MASTERMIND WHO DECIDED TO HAVE ISANTI HOST THIS TOURNAMENT. MOST OF THE TEAMS WILL HAVE A COMMUTE OF AN HOUR OR MORE!
MYSA of course!!
Agree Isanti is a less than ideal drive for most. Since it is the location however, does anyone have knowledge on the quality of the fields? It seems the LWB fields were kind of small.
What would be the downside to having the State Cup divisions play at multiple sites? divided by age groups. I know it would require a few more field marshalls but it would open the door to more clubs being willing to host.
Lucy didn't want it anymore. State Cup ripped up the fields for the entire summer.
2/14/11 9:49 AM asked, What would be the downside to having the State Cup divisions play at multiple sites? divided by age groups.
This has been tried in a very limited way, last year, the year before etc. Not a disaster, but not great either.
One downside would be inconsistent referee assigning. State Cup is one of the few competitions in MN that gets the higher rated referees together. MYSA already pays less than almost every club, and if you only get one game most top level refs are going to pass on accepting the games and do an adult game or tournament somewhere else. Many will pass on Isanti anyway-due to drive time and cost of gas...
If you are talking about SPU 14 and SCV 14, they are not good enough to challenge MTA...not even close!
The fields in Isanti are good but not great, they do have less wear on them than most of the past locations. Like any complex the spring weather will go a long way to determining field quality. I don't recall a ton of complaints (about the fields) when games were hosted there in the past. State Cup is always going to be issue as you need a location that is "willing" to host the games. Hosting the event does offer some benefits for the local club but also serves to stress the membership, because in most cases there are very few members who actually volunteer their time to help the club.
Isanti does not have lights, thus I would think your going to see just weekend games, which means weather delays could really cause issues with the tournament. Travel is always going to be a problem, but traveling out to LWB was also quite a drive for many of the teams.
LWB did not have lights either. Game schedule will include games during the week, difficult start times for any coaches, parents, and referees who work normal hours.
Isn't Isanti by those refuse dumps - I recall it smelling horrendous and the fields were not great!
I seem to recall MN having a huge soccer complex with solid fields located about 15 minutes north of downtown Mpls. I think it was called National Soccer Complex in a city called Blane.
I don't know why this great tournament wouldn't be held there.
4:34 - It's huge, but the fields are not quality. Drainage ponds with no fencing around them. Parking is horrible at the north end. The fields are bumpy and hard and full of quack grass and weeds. The venue is not worthy of
the title National Sports complex.
NSC isn't used because most of the fields don't meet the minimum dimensions needed to host the event. Only U1 & U2 are the right size. The rest are too narrow.
When is the state cup draw?
March 5
The draw is Saturday. Posturing and predictions (and complaining and whining) start Sunday.
Any news on the draw for the younger ages?
U15 Boys - Top seed listed first
MTE PR
MTW PR
SCV C1
DKT1 C1
EDI PR
MUS C1
WBL C1
MUS PR
PSA C1
Playin bet DKT2 C! v BHK C1
WDB C1
SLP C1
So, I'm guessing MYSA will have the brackets online by May?
March 18
one of the pools for U-17
Twin city Fire
NLS Mad dogs
Dakaota Rev
St Croix
U14 girls
Top seed listed first;
A pool
MTA Blue
Burnsville
Maplebrook
Mahtomedi
B pool
MTA white
Edina
Blaine
winner of playin game TC Fire vs St.Croix
C pool
Prior Lake
Wayzata
Minneapolis United
winner of playin game vs MTA West vs NSS
D pool
Dakota Rev
Eden Prairie
Cottage Grove
Tonka
My guess at Final Four; MTA Blue, MTA White, Prior Lake, Cottage Grove
Final two: MTA vs MTA with MTA Blue moving on to regionals.
U18G draw results anyone? Please?
U18G brackets:
A pool
Eden Prairie
Shattuck
Wayzata
MTA
B pool
Three Rivers
St Croix
Bloomington
Eastside
Don't count out TC Fire in the U14 girls. They're going to surprise everyone and win it all.
anyone know u17girls - please
U17 Girls State Cup
Bracket A
MTA Blue
Shattuck
Wayzata C1
Dakota Rev C1
Bracket B
St. Croix Premier
Northern Lights Premier
Dakota Rev Premier
TC Fire Premier (U19)
Bracket C
MTA White
TC Fire C1
PSA C1
Eagan Premier
Bracket D
Eden Prairie Premier
Tonka Premier
MTA Silver
Minneapolis United C1
Don't even need to play the 17s bracket.
Semi-finals: MTA Blue, St. Croix, EP and Eagan.
how about 15 and 16's? Who are the favorites
Favorites = MTA! Well maybe Dakota Rev and Eden Prairie at the 15's (girls)
What a lopsided draw for U18?! My opinion, and no disrespect intended, but the winner of Bracket A wins. Game over.
What about the U19's? Any teams left to play?
3:52 no need to play because Eagan is a lock in C3 u17 girls! Really. I mean they were C-1 last year so well ummm Ok ... a yea right.
u17 brackets for the boys?
U16 Girls?
17B
A
SCV
EAG
MTA (not Blue)
FOREST LAKE
B
MTA (Blue)
MUS2
VLY
SSM
C
PSA
EDP
MUS1
BHK
The u17 boys pools just show that seeding more than a couple teams is necessary.
SCV -good team, last years winners, but two C1 teams in their pool?
MTA blue, and Shattuck in the same pool? Hmmmmm. I wonder which two clubs the MYSA staff dislikes most.
Seeds are based on what happened at last year's State Cup. Whoever won the pool bracket last year got top seeds this year. Then each team representative goes up and draws a chip out of a bag in a blind draw.
437, Stop the crying. I believe it is based on the luck or in your case the unluck of the draw. There is no conspiracy against MTA or Shattucks when it comes to these drawings. Maybe other things, but in this case no.
I'm an MTA parent and yes it seems like MYSA prefers (along with others) that we didn't exist. But, the drawing is fair. MYSA handles it the best way they can. There are representatives from each team present during the drawing. It all comes down to the luck of the draw and I truly doubt that MYSA are magicians and can switch those chips inside the basket (soccer ball basket)!
Does not matter...MTA wins at 13, 14, 15, 16 and maybe 17. I'll give the 18's to a different club.
1153, Boys or girls.
Boys...and the reason 17 is a question and 18 is no good is because of the US Academy teams cannot play State Cup.
MTA U14 boys will be challenged this year.
u14 MTA boys will be challenged? No chance, not in MN this year
U14 MTA boys lost some kids to St Paul United this year.
The U14 age group at Mta has lost close to 10 kids off the Blue/ White teams that are quality players over the last 2 seasons. This is good for Mn soccer as all the talent is no longer consolidated to one team at the State Level. But, not so good for MTA at this age group as they try to compete in the Region, or as they move to compete against the Developmental Academy Teams in the future. MTA will need all the best talent in the state to compete at the level of a Chicago team such as the Sockers or Fire. I do not think MTA has beat either of these top tier teams? May be wrong though.
MTA u14 Boys beat the #3 ranked team (Ironbound SC Elite) in Region 1 last weekend by a score of 3-0.
Nice result for a team that hasn't played outside since last October.
I think the u14 MTA boys will be tough to beat come May in Minnesota.
Bring it on!
Per gotsoccer.com, Ironbound SC Elite is ranked 12 in region 1 and 3 in NJ.
per NationalSoccerRankings.com they are #3 in Region 1.
MTA U14 boys tied Manhattan SC 1-1 in the same event last weekend. Manhattan SC is ranked #4 in the nation in gotsoccer.com
Anyway you slice it those boys had a great weekend against national class competition. Kudos to them for representing Minnesota in fine fashion.
Based on these early results it will be tough for any local team to play with MTA U14s this year.
NationalSoccerRankings.com is Last Updated 11/25/2010]
Tough to play with or beat?
Gotsoccer.com is not really accurate, in my opinion. They just go by how many points a team has collected over a certain time period. If a good team (i.e. Michigan Hawks Girls U14 girls who won the region 2 championship last year as U13’s) does not play any tournaments, they will not collect any points. One could argue it means they are not a good team, but they (Michigan Hawks) did beat the MTA U14 girls team last year (as they were U13’s), which is considered to be the top girls team in Minnesota at their age group. And, if you look at the web site (http://www.region2.com/2010RegionIIChampionsGirls.asp), you will see Michigan hawks won at 3 different age groups and Eclipse won a few as well. Just one persons opinion.
Aaah, you hit on the marketing genius of USA soccer. Post rankings based on how many tournaments a team has played. Tell those parents they need to work and train a little bit harder. Suck parents and kids into thinking where their team is rank matters. Tell those families and players that if they win State Cup and go to regions they will be considered elite.
Then tell families that in order to develop better quality leagues we need to develop an elite league where we take the best of the best out and have them play in a league that doesn’t compete with the other teams. To make things fair that system doesn’t get rank in the other system. Because if you ranked them then the kids still playing in league below them would stop chasing the dream.
The whole system is set up for families to spend more and more money chasing a dream only to realize that your kid is a good athlete and has had fun playing soccer but could have achieved the same thing for about 20K less. Welcome to middle class USA Soccer.
Cynical…. Yeah but it has a lot of truth in it too.
What is the cheaper solution…. How about eliminating single age groups? Instead of an age group for birth year, how about something like this
’93 thru ‘96
’96 thru ‘99
’99 thru ‘02
’02 thru ‘05
In other words make age groups in three year groups. Thus you don’t have to travel so far, competition becomes greater locally and also become cheaper. I think my system would develop more player and better players.
Just my NOT so humble opinion.
The Academy systems seem to work pretty well in Europe...just my humble opinion.
Europe's Academy system is funded by pro team. Don't cost families nothing (actually cost the families less) and ensures that tbe best players play.
USA academy system is funded by parents so some players are on the team to fund others. Not always the best players sometimes the players with best finanacial backing. Ok, a bit less cynical view is some players get a chance to prove/develop themselves while funding the development of others. No matter how you slice it USA soccer cost considerable more to families/players than families/players in Europe, South American, ect.....
Europe has players playing in multi age groups way before they get into a academy system. JMHO :)
Just an observation, MTA U14 boys may very well take State Cup again this year. It looks like two St. Paul teams will challenge them though based on what I saw in the indoor leagues this winter. Here is the real problem for this MTA age group long term. In the last two season there have been 10
players that have left the Blue and White team for other options. THere will most likely be more that will leave after this season. Other players in the state will not play for the current scenario. As MTA looks down the road to be a Academy team and compete regionally or nationally they can't lose talent. Bottom line is there is not enough to go around in the state. Not to mention now you have another academy just down the road also recruiting this age group, and beating both MTA USSDA teams handily this winter. You don't need to look outside the region, I believe MTA14s have struggled in Region II with teams like the Chicago Soccers and Chicago FIre. While I think it is a good team that the talent is more spread out in teams around the state for a good state cup, it is a bad thing for MTA when talent continues to leave this age group and dilute the eventual Academy team. Just an observation.
Is there a reason why it takes four months to post State Cup brackets on the MYSA website?
Frank, they're posted.
What I said was "The u17 boys pools just show that seeding more than a couple teams is necessary."
I didn't say that the draw was rigged.
Common sense should prevail even at State Cup. Everyone knows who is strong and who is not as strong. Clearly, the two C1 teams should not be in the same pool.
Nor should two very strong teams. Seed all the teams. You would find a much better and realiztic winner each year...
You gotta beat the best to be the best. The best team will end up on top (unless there's some kind of shootout conspiracy or something).
Why not draw all the teams from seeded pots (like in Champions League)? I'm a stoopid dummy and even I can figure that out.
MYSA doesn't think logically when it comes to scheduling. Never have. Never will. Unless...
238, You did ,however, mention MYSA not liking two clubs which people then can come to the conclusion which some did.
The challenge with seeding is, "Says who?" How do you rank teams? (Please don't suggest the meaningless "gotsoccer.com" rankings.) The current system rewards teams that win their bracket from the year before, and makes everything else random. The challenge at 17B is PSA smoked Shattuck (4-1) last year in pool play to win the group, but were decimated when all of their star players moved to MTA's Academy team. Should PSA have been given a top seed?
The 18B bracket is single-elimination, and one of the finalists is guaranteed to be a C1 team.
State Cup for U16-18 boys is like a runner up award now that SSM and MTA are in the USSF Academy.
The NIT of boys' youth soccer?
It appears both SSM and MTA were runners up at U16B last year...actually SSM didn't even advance. Methinks the best team is still playing State Cup at U17B.
Is there a national tournament for the academy teams used to determine the best of the best?
Much talk over the years of MTA dominance and "other clubs on the rise" but when you look at it, this year may be the year that MTA has the complete sweep at State Cup. Girls side.
13- clearly the strongest team.
14- No brainer the strongest team
15- again look to be the best team.
16- Weak age group but still MTA strongest.
17- easy win again for 17's
18- well this age group may be the chance for someone else to break the streak.
Sure every group has a couple stronger teams but nobody else has the talent,coaching and experience playing in big games. ECNL has helped the MTA players know how to get ready for tough competition and big games.
2:51pm. Agreed! Now sit back and and let's wait for the MTA haters to come out! Bring it on!
Yeah, like the ones who say, "Well, based on your mission to be the *elite* club in Minnesota, you SHOULD win all age groups." I love that one.
Same goes for boys side: U13-U16 is a lock for MTA. U17 it will be close with SCV and MU being in the mix. U18 who knows. So based on 251's post, MTA will get a minimum of 9 state champs.
I'm all for the mission of MTA and would love to see a sweep, but you can't even make this stuff up.
The arrogance in these posts make me want to vomit. Remember the bigger picture - MN Soccer and US Soccer still blow.
What is best for MN soccer and US soccer is MTA. If you call that arrogance than whatever.
MTA sweeps, so be it. If another club team moves onto regionals and does great than I'll still be proud. Whatever is good for soccer in Minnesota.
16G will be MTAs downfall. TC Fire will win this age group.
I think Shattuck may have issues with your comment, 4:59. They're smoking MTA on the boys' side.
I always love the confidence (arrogance) that MN Clubs have as they march into State Cup. Then they come slithering home from Regionals to make it another year since 1990 that MN hasn't won a National Championship.
9:15,
Are you saying that MN should not send any of the State Cup Champs to Regions? Why even hold the tournament? Better yet, why even play the sport? Why do you even get out of bed everyday? Most would rather try and show confidence.
9:31am YES! Why can't we just cheer for our club to win State Cup and cross our fingers and hope they do well in regionals. If they don't, than oh well, but give them the confidence to go out and try. I guess 9:15 is saying why bother to even try, just quit! 3 movies that might lift your spirit 9:15 and give you some hope; Rocky, Miracle and Any Given Sunday.
I'm guessing when times get tough, you just quit!
931, stay in bed and sleep sounds good right now!!
"just cheer for our club"
I don't think the above posts can be considered "just cheering." Pretty arrogant "cheering" to predict wins as "no-brainers."
"Most would rather try and show confidence"
Confidence or arrogance? When you're predicting an MTA sweep as "easy no-brainers that aren't close," is MTA the only club that should have confidence in MN? Does Hoosiers not apply to the other MN clubs? The hypocrisy.
It's funny when MN teams have the nerve to talk smack in March when every July for 20 years MN teams get spanked at Regions.
MN last won a National Championship in 1992 when Burnsville U16 girls did it. However, we've had 5 teams that have won regionals in the past 9 years - Bangu U13 girls in '07, Bangu U17 & 18 girls in '02 & '03, SSM U18 boys in '08 and '10.
1:50...are you sure? I dont see MTA aka Bangu since 2003? $5000 soccer budget per year I guess dosen't go that far anymore.
Hey 1:58 What's your soccer budget?
Does your child train indoors?
Do you pay the coach, or have a "parent" run training.
Is the team your child trains with having success?
Does the club allow kids who are looking outside their community team?
If you have the answer to less expensive, challenging, successful soccer please share. And Please, don't pull back and give the winning isn't everything @#$%^. I said success, not 100% winning...
Gotta love the SCV 17B hoosiers story. 6 of the original 8 U9s are still with the team (can anyone else claim anything near that?). They beat 3 MTA teams and 2 very good MU teams (someone else knocked out SSM) to win State Cup last year.
Any one heard about the new SPU team? Roomers is legit. MTA fourteens are scared and SPU v.s. MTA 14s in the final!!!
"Does the club allow kids who are looking outside their community team?"
What does that mean?
SPU will surprise many at U14. Saw them in winter league. Wow.
Ive seen the TCF U-16 team and they are a good team.What gets old is hearing about how great MTA is. They have good teams but to say they are going to win everything is arrogant.How many soccer games are determined by a lucky bounce or a great play that change the whole outcome of any given game.Ive been waiting to start hearing about MTA its nice to see nothing has changed on this blog. There are many players that have switched there teams and have made the new club they play for better.
MTA fans rise up when other people start putting them down or calling them arrogant. There are also many players from other club teams that have moved to MTA. It's up to the player, play were you're comfortable if that MTA, Wayzata, TCF, etc.
Will MTA sweep, I'm hoping, but in reality I don't think that will happen. Do I want the Vikings to win the Super Bowl and the Twins to win the World Series? Yes I do, but in reality that probably won't happen either. The point is, go ahead and talk up your club and don't put down other clubs. Be proud of where you play!
"How many soccer games are determined by a lucky bounce or a great play that change the whole outcome of any given game."
Or rather,
How many soccer games are determined by a shootout conspiracy?
I love that one.
The below comment shows how narrowminded and ignorant Mr. Soccer (aka I think I know what's best for soccer) is about soccer development in MN and in general.
Mr. Soccer said...
What is best for MN soccer and US soccer is MTA.
I'm not sure who Mr. Soccer is, but MTA probably is great for MN Soccer just like La Masia is great for Spain Soccer.
Putting the best players together to be coached by the best coaches seems like a good place to start to me.
Best coaches? um....
3/24/11 4:12 PM asked "Does the club allow kids who are looking outside their community team?"
What does that mean?
Does your club allow players who are not from your community? Does it allow kids who don't have an option at their own community club that fits their needs, desire, or level of play?
Many clubs don't, others bash MTA but do the same thing...
My club allows "outsiders." My club offers indoor training all winter. My club wins State Cups. My club costs way less.
How much does it cost? What is the name of your club?
MTA all the way!!! woohoo!!! Yeah we can't win regionals or nationals but who else can do it from MN? MTA is probably the best hope we have! Other states do it by gathering up the best players and put them together...MTA is trying to do that but the rest of MN do not like it.
St. Croix, Woodbury, Valley United and Eden Prairie have won multiple State Cups (in the last handful of years - and usually with players from all over).
SPU 14s? are they the same team who lost to SCV in the league championship a few weeks ago? NO WAY they are beating MTA Blue. The parents that keep causing disruption on every team their kid is on need to take him back to his true age.
True age? You got the wrong team.
MTA B17's have had the same core group from around U10 as well...
Any team that can rise to a high level of play by DEVELOPING players vs continually recruiting deserves my compliments. I think it is laughable how several "community based clubs" criticize MTA for their recruiting. Look at any Premier level team in MN and you will find that within the first year or two most of those teams have gotten rid of most of the kids that earned the Premier spot in the first place. It's really kind of sad because these coaches act like they are so pure when in fact they are doing the exact same thing MTA does. Recruiting is part of youth soccer like it or not. Some coaches seem to be consumed with finding the "perfect roster" the roster that never exists.
"High level of play."
Compared to what?
SPU over MTA. Can't wait to see the anxious MTA parents weep.
Like Mr. Soccer, Mister Soccer is an ignoramus when he say's: "MTA probably is great for MN Soccer just like La Masia is great for Spain Soccer." Comparing a rotten apple to a juicy orange is silly.
You have a better idea for MN Soccer?
La Masia didn't become La Masia over night.
Here are the 2 best MN players of the last 10 years:
Bunbury - Shattuck
Cropper - MTA
Seriously folks. Someone explain why you hate MTA and Shattuck? Please list valid reasons. We don't need to hear; because they recruit from other teams (all high levels teams from every club recruit from other clubs), too much training (most high level teams teams/clubs train 3+ days a week), too expensive (break everything down from your club and I bet it would compare to MTA maybe not Shattuck). All of these are not valid points.
I really would love to hear some responses, because I'm finding that people hate what they don't know or are come across jealous.
MTA can't really take credit for Cropper. As long as his dad is who he is, he'd be where he is if he played for my club. Frankly, he doesn't even list MTA (or Minnesota) on his resume anymore.
Let's change it then:
Bunbury - Shattuck
Miller - MTA
Gee 12:19,
Let's not count Bunbury then either. As long as his dad is who he is he'd be where he is if he played for my club.
Just because you say SPU over MTA over and over again doesn't make it true! Both are great teams. Both have talented players. Coaching and club preference are simply that - a personal choice. I think someone needs to worry less about the "weeping" parents and concentrate more on developing good soccer players. Of course, that means the world will have to stop revolving around you....
Please refrain from the club bashing. This is State Cup...a chance for players to see how they stack up. Still the most exciting tournament in the state. Can we enjoy the competition and encourage sportspersonship?
"Sportspersonship." Spoken like a true "participation award" advocate.
3:29, you're probably right, though Cropper's dad had the connections to open all the right doors overseas. Bunbury and Miller were developed here and are studs.
All right, State Cup fanatics. Review the brackets and pick your boys and girls brackets of death.
Mine
Boys: U17 Group B - MTW17PR, MUS17PR, VLY17C1, SSM17MW
Girls: U18 Group A - EDP18MW, SSM18MW, MTA18PR, WYZ19PR.
LoveMTA -- for some it has nothing to with hate. The problem is that some of us don't agree with the single club-best player model as the only or best way to develop better soccer players in MN. Both MTA and Shattuck are simply good alternatives.
Everyone slams how MN does in regionals and maybe beyond, but yet they don't agree with "single club-best" player model. What if we didn't have MTA or Shattuck. Do you really think your little CC would go far with the one or two superstars on your team?
"Little" CC? Spoken like a true MTA punch-drinker.
Little CC or big CC, all the same, average coaches, average players and overly aggressive parents.
10:48,unfortunately a majority of the coaches in Minnesota (99.9%) are average. Even the big club coaches are average at best.
Just like how the '92 Boys were never willing to combine onto one team and make a serious run at the National Tournament - this comes from MN wanting to be the best in MN but not caring about being the best in the US.
But the coaches are a lot better now that they were 10 years ago, and 10 years before that...
That's the reality of soccer in a non-soccer state.
10:05 AM -- Right, the results of the "single club-best" player MTA model speaks for itself.
12:37pm. It actually does. Look at the State Cup results for the past couple of years.
12:37pm -- You look at the regional and national results, dimwit! Create a select team of some of the best players in the metro area and it will win most of the time in MN. But is that good for soccer dvelopment in MN???
12:37,
Look a little deeper. We actually have several players involved in US Youth National teams right now.
This is a recent development as it wasn't happening 5-10 years ago with any degree of regularity other than the 1 age group with Sanneh and Lagos.
3:33, bingo. MTA does not add incremental value. They merely gather some of the best players in the metro area. They do not make them better, which would prove itself out in regional/national success (like SSM already sees with their limited number of teams).
"Putting the best players together to be coached by the best coaches seems like a good place to start to me."
4:58...
So how do we account for Minnesota having more boys in the national pool and on national teams the past few years than ever in our history?
Guess what club most of these kids belong to?
When I played in MN, I think I had one "good" coach and the rest were bums. I improved the most when playing with top-level teammates, competing against them regularly in training.
Considering that, the collection of players at MTA would definitely put MTA on the top of my list.
4:07 PM so what?
Nice come back 5:10.
Tim, please moderate the bickering, and possible suspend some of the main culprits so the rest of us can share info responsibly.
Share info or propagandize?
Perhaps some of the better players have been gathered by one club, but the best coaches are scattered all over the state.
Even if consolidation of talent happens, MN is still not competitive in the large scheme of things as a whole. Take a look at the ODP results, that is the exact measure of what you seek.
I am for consolidation, but not for the same reasons as everyone seems to be pointing to. I personally have not been focused on wins by a team in MN, during youth soccer. My concern is that my daughter was "consolidated" with like minded and skilled players to prepare her to play at higher levels after youth soccer. It is called development, folks.
Very simplistic- if your child is the best player on his/her team.....he/she is gaining the least from every training session. The closer others are in his/her skill level and knowledge of the game, the more he/she gains.
As far as coaching goes, if you want a very basic litmus test of how skilled your coach is make ONE observation: DO PLAYERS STAND IN LINE AT PRACTICE WAITING TO PERFORM A DRILL? If the answer is "yes", then you have a problem.
5:27 PM -- cry baby!
5:27pm. You must have been a child that was picked on? "Teacher, teacher, Billy is being to mean to me!"
Anonymous,
You must have been the child that flunked English. "I two ate to much."
Bangu Tsunami Girls consolidated talent with a good coach and won the region a couple of times.
9:16 am - LOL! That was a good one!
MN should have one central club that all the best players want to play for. It would be MN's version of Dallas Texans, FC Delco, MI Hawks, CO Rush, Chicago Sockers or Scott Gallagher.
That club could make a run at national competitions. Players would strive to make that club, similar to players in Catalonia striving to enter La Masia. This would raise the level for all clubs in MN.
I would say MTA is the closest thing to establishing this - too bad MTA'ers so arrogantly go about their business.
8:58 AM -- grow up you embecile!
Who are the best coaches in Minnesota?
Ask the players. Ask players playing in college.
They'd have to have a sense of a greater good that was outside of themselves and they're incapable of thinking that way.
Parents too are incapable of making this assessment.
I guess it should be based off of most wins and fewest infractions.
Something that all the previous posters have ignored is that MN has a relatively small population compared to powerhouse states like CA, TX, IL, OH. With seven times the population of MN, CA will has seven times the number of elite players from which to draw. Plus there are cultural differences. Not to mention MN's climate really hinders year-round play. Consolidation won't come close to addressing these issues. And consolodation only works if everyone buys into it. There are players and parents that just do not want to be part of a massive club system due to cost, time commitment, or the travel distance just for training.
My beef with the elite clubs in MN is that many (not all) of them recruit players not for the players' sakes, but to make their teams better. If a better player comes along next year, someone gets dumped. And they use their lower-level teams and rec programs to financiall support the elite teams. But that's what we have and complaining about it isn't going to change it. And we'll never be at the level of other countries because we'll never have the professional club oversight of youth soccer like you see in South America and Europe.
12:56, population and weather aren't valid excuses. MI, OH, MO, CO all have smaller youth population bases in their metro areas vs. MSP metro, and also crappy weather, but have much stronger club programs.
Other excuses in MN are we don't have an MLS team and we don't have a UofM Men's team. I suppose these can be considered cultural differences (as cited above).
But we do have the NSC Stars, a UofM Club team and the MIAC...we're set up for mediocrity.
Michigan, Illinois, Colorado and Ohio
have had a big head start on Minnesota when it comes to consolidating talent.
Minnesota is just beginning to catch up and the USSF Academy and ECNL will speed up that process in the next few years.
College coaches will be asking players if they're participating in the USSF Academy and ECNL Showcases as those will be college coaches preferred venues for scouting talent.
Boys in Minnesota who do gymnastics: 1 or 2
Boys in Minnesota who play soccer: millions.
Division 1 mens' gymnastics programs in Minnesota: 1
Division 1 mens' soccer programs: 0
MINNESOTAN'S tax dollars fund that big university. Does anyone ask why it offers big-time mens' gymnastics and not big-time men's soccer?
You get a D-1 mens' program at the U and things will change. Period.
3:24... the answer to your question is Title IX. Unless the U can find another women's sport to equal out the number of scholarships, it can't happen. And with money being tight, the school won't be adding new sports any time soon (and the reason for men's gymnastics instead of soccer is that men's gymnastics was around before most Minnesotans even heard of soccer).
Gophers have:
19 players on Men's Gymnastics; 5 from MN. 3 Coaches.
12 Men's sports.
13 Women's sports.
Wrestling for men.
Volleyball and Rowing for women.
Too bad they can't replace that Gymnastics team with a Soccer team.
10:52 AM -- One more comment like that and you will be banned from this blog.
so, 3:47, it isn't Title IX. I have no issues with wrestling, as we're a big wrestling state. But mens gymnastics? NO ONE DOES THAT HERE.
I have to agree on men's gymnastics. The U would bring in some income from selling tickets to mens soccer games. Who goes to men's gymnastics?
Didn't Goldy just get clocked by some guy at a gymanstics meet? At least someone was there.
Who goes to men's soccer games? Take a look at NSC Stars / Thunder attendance history.
Attendance isn't a good argument for soccer.
505, If they recruited only Minnesota kids the parents would come to games!!! Thats about 40 to start with, Coaches family, Goldy, Refs,brothers and sisters (but you can only recruit players that come from large families) You might get close to 100!!!
If you recruit only boys from MN, you will never have a "big time" program.
Funny how the earlier point about development was skimmed over, and the argument that moved forward was that the U should have a men's program.
Youth soccer should be about development, not wins. Wins will come if you develop the kids.
How will we know if they are developed if they can't win games?
If kids win, they develop
...because then it's fun and they don't quit.
Look at the attendance the Women's Gophers Soccer team draws. A men's team would draw much larger crowds than women's games just like they do for men's basketball and hockey compared to the women's teams.
I'm not saying it would be a revenue positive addition immediately but it would create a lot of excitement in the state and for the school.
U of M men's gynmastics has produced Olypians. (any MN Olypian Futbol players?) Attacking another sport is not going to help soccer. It is sad to think that you belive that attacking another sport is somehow going to help soccer - the biggest sport in the world. Seriously!
Gynastics,wrestling, chess or whatever are not soccer competition. Soccer has no real competition you morons. Attacking other activities puts YOU all in the category of the assholes that call soccer players "field fairies".
Seriously grow the f up. MN is a hockey state and saying "well at least we're better than these others sports" is so lame that you just em bare ass the sport.
All I hope is that the above posts atacking gymnastics and wresting, is not made by someone who is a coach and I pray that you are not parents because you are the worst thing that could ever happen to soccer in MN or the US.
splitsville
8:45pm Why are you on a soccer blog if? And your language, come on grow up! Hopefully Splitsville means we will no longer have to listen to your nonsense!
9:52 - why are u on soccer blog - and I am sorry if I offended you and your boyfriend. please take a moniker. How about sally?
splitsville
Splitsville is the type of internet troll who types with one hand...
10:58 - apparently your boyfriend is upset
sorry again
splitsville is a loser
Think about it there is a reason why I love to go watch men's gymnastics and wrestling more than soccer!! ;)
Soccer is just so icky compared to what happens on a mat! ;)
splitsville
Now let's please go back to state cup talk. I don't want to know what happened in men's gymnastics or wrestling. Both fine sports, but this blog is about soccer and this category is about State Cup.
I see many girls teams are heading to Rockford and Des Moines in the next few weeks. It will fun to hear those results. I see that Just for Girls has many MN teams who will be playing each other down there.
Splitsville, could you tell us what happens on "a mat"? And by the way, you are talking about attacking other sports, you are attacking soccer! So does that make you any better?
Matt who?
Dear Splitsville, Please leave our soccer blog and go find a blog that talks about men's gymnastics and wrestling. You came on our soccer blog and attacked soccer and read us the riot attack because we were attacking your sports. We weren't attacking your sports, we merely were wishing that the UofM would drop one of those and add a men's soccer team. We also don't use colorful names to belittle people and we don't have to swear to make our points.
Now unless the UofM wrestling team and the gymnastics team fielded a soccer team and they're playing in state cup, let's go back to soccer and state cup talk.
Love, Minnesota Soccer Fans!
Highest paid MN youth soccer coach?
DOC's at the big community clubs get the biggest salaries. Eden Prairie, Woodbury etc...
9:24, what about team coaches? I know a coach that was making $165/per player each month.
18 players? 12 months? Yikes, that's over $35k.
Fortunately everything that is written on this blog is completely factual.......
I guess a better question is for an older age team of 18 players that will be training for 9 months (nothing going on during the high school season) what should a quality professional coach be paid? How many hours do you think they average each week factoring in practice prep, practice time, dealing with players/parent inquiries during the week, MRL/MYSL/ECNL league play and travel, tournaments - planning/traveling/games, etc...?
Strictly the coaching costs not the monthly fees which usually also include field costs, league fees, tournament entry costs, etc...
Just curious what folks think out there.
Got fired when the DOC found out...
I know of club coaches making 12K for 9 months with the older teams. This includes everything 8:14 listed above.
Let's look at this coach getting paid $12K for 9 months. If there are 18 players on the team that works out to $74 per player per month.
Those types of teams are averaging training/playing at least 4 times weekly/16 times per month over the course of the 9 months. That works out to $4.62 per session ($3.08 per hour if session is 90 minutes) per player.
All in all a pretty good deal with a quality coach.
Splitsville -- Cleanup you act on this blog or you will be removed.
Spitonu
Spitonu -- Clean up your spelling or you won't be respected.
Splitsville – you do NOT want to talk about spelling! Your post on 3/31/2011 at 8:45 PM has quite a few spelling errors!
For a person that loves gymnastics so much, maybe you should learn how to spell the word! The “M” comes BEFORE the “N”! Olypian?!?! Or should that be Olympian?!?! Believe does have 3 “E”’s in it. Again, it is GYMNASTICS! Atacking?!?!?!?!?!?! Should that be ATTACKING?!
You may want to use Microsoft Word to spell check your poor spelling.
Now, is there still an argument on who will not be respected?
Since when does Anonymous equal Splitsville?
How do you know it doesn't?
Splitsville
Just like wins and players, when it comes to blog posts, I'll take quality over quantity any day of the week. Would be nice if user names were required.
MTA 14s lost a couple of players to S.T. Paul UNtied this year and will challenge the MTA 14s if not beat them saw both teams play in winter league's and scrimmages. Should be a great state cup this year come may.
USSF Development Academy rules: "To maintain a focus on training, Academy teams do not play in any other leagues, tournaments, State Cup competitions, ODP or All-Star events without written permission from Academy staff. Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only 2 exceptions: high school soccer and national team duty."
What does this do to MTA and SSM State Cup entries in the DA age groups? Are MTA and SSM willing to violate USSF DA rules just one year into their respective DA tenures?
Or will these Clubs be fielding their "B" players/teams for State Cup? Or are rules being bent in defining no single Academy player as "full time"?
State Cup team rosters are sent to the USSF for DA verification purposes. Maybe the USSF turns a blind eye to these violations, especially in less nationally competitive states like Minnesota?
Academy players that have been designated as FT (full team/fulltime) can't play in State Cup but the other players may participate as has been explained to me.
If you look at the MTA and Shattuck academy sites you'll see their players who are designated as FT and DP (Developmental).
I read somewhere that if you play in 6 or more DAP games, you can't play State Cup. MTA and SSM will be strong regardless.
4/5/11 5:37 PM Pleeeeeeeeeeze, give us a break. Your ignorance and fear of seeing your child lose is amazing.
Read up rules before you show your ignorance. Look at the MTA website, the USSF site it has all the info you need in easy to find and EASY TO READ format.
Think it through. MTA obviously has more than the two DA teams. They had multiple teams at each age group one year ago, why would they only have two teams now?
Yes, they really do have a 16's team, a 17's team, and 18's team. Yes they are going to play State Cup. No they won't be violating any rules, laws or morals.
And yes, some of those teams will even lose, and/or tie some of their games.
Dear 4/6/11 7:42 AM -
Read from http://www.ussoccer.com/Teams/Development-Academy/Academy-Overview.aspx
"To maintain a focus on training, Academy teams do not play in any other leagues, tournaments, State Cup competitions, ODP or All-Star events without written permission from Academy staff. Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only 2 exceptions: high school soccer and national team duty."
In response to your comment of "...the USSF site it has all the info you need in easy to find and EASY TO READ format", I have included the link for your review. Who's ignorant?
Yes, we all know MTA has multiple teams at these age levels. My son is a U14 MTA player.
My question was posed to gain clarity on what occurs when the top MTA/SSM players play on the Academy teams. The USSF statement implies that those players could not play State Cup, and thus the Clubs' "next best" (non-full time-DA, or "B" team) players would have to take their respective places.
The tenor of your ignorance and arrogance makes me laugh. Perhaps an explanation, reference, or non-judgmental reply would suffice. Live and learn.
To non-MTA affiliates,
Please do not lump all MTA players, coaches, and parents into the same group as the author to whom I am responding. Most of us actually are in it for the love of this beautiful game and not for the false/purchased feelings of small-town pride.
Pleeeeeeeeeeze.
Sincerely,
4/5/11 5:37 PM
As an outsider to DAP, Academy, US Club, Elite, FT, MTA, Blue Rosters and DP, I've tried reading these websites to figure things out and I'm left thoroughly mind-boggled.
The rules and restrictions of US Youth Soccer reeks of soccer mommies and minivans.
Why not just let the kids play when they want to play?
Mister Soccer - As a soccer mommy who drives a mini-van I would beg to differ. I would say it reeks of over zealous administrators, some of what we see at MYSA.
I do agree let the kids play when they want to play!
and where.
4/5/11 5:37 PM, So what your saying is you do not understand what your own club is doing and go to a blog to "ask". Talk about ignorance.
MTA 17s dad said nothing ignorant,
and nothing that could be construed by an intelligent human to be false/purchased feelings of small-town pride.
Let me copy and paste directly from your post.
Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only 2 exceptions: high school soccer and national team duty."
That means, Full-time Academy players can only participate on their designated Academy team, with only 2 exceptions: high school soccer and national team duty. Since State Cup is not an exception, they obviously cannot play State Cup. DUH
By the way, I see you do not practice what you preach and leave non-judgemental posts.
How's this for pompous...
Why come to MTA now?
Many Community clubs say they offer year-round training. However it is difficult to replicate the training environment or level of coaching that players receive at MTA. Each year at the U13-U19 levels, players come from clubs across the Twin Cities in hopes of making our elite teams. Many of these players come without the proper technical foundation and therefore are not good enough to make our Elite teams. They may be the best players at their community club, but it is often too late technically for these players to compete at the Regional and National levels where our teams compete. We give our U9-U12 players their best chance by properly teaching the fundamentals at this critical stage of a player’s soccer development.
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