With the high school season over, many MN soccer fans are turning their attention to the upcoming club season. While travel budgets may be smaller with the economic down turn, may team are still planning a full winter season of tournaments.
5:51's first sentence is very accurate as their event falls right after all the regional tournaments which for many teams/clubs is the wrap up of their calendar soccer year. It would be interesting to see who/where all the super high level July tournaments are across the country. I think it would also be a good idea to define "high level". Are we talking top 50-75 national teams, top 25-50 regional teams, MRL Premier, MRL 1st Division, etc....
Big scrimmage at U-14 this weekend. Top two teams play on Sat. The score of scrimmages is certainly is not representative of the "better team" but it will be interesting to see how these two teams match up.
for those of you new to this board, the last few posts signal the beginning of 4-6 months of banter on who is better u14MTA Blue vs Dak rev u14. Their other names are 'two of the state's few regionally competitive girls teams (at any age) that coincidentally didn't even win state cup at u13'. I'm psyched!
My bet is that the team that wins state cup will go to regionals just like last year and all the years before that. It will probably be one of these two teams but maybe not (see last year with injuries and some questionable decisions by coaches).
That is the ONLY answer one can give to that question on this blog. Otherwise, you either get "....who cares" or "....those SSM people are easy to rile up".
So, simple, direct questions is all will get an answer from me.
Bville u15, EP u17, and Woodbury 18's are playing MRL Premier. The rest are lowly 1st division teams. These 'just regular' 1st division wannabes are unable to match the soccer prowess of these fine squads and the progenetive power of their parents. They are not worthy.
No need to go trolling 4:50. You found this site so you can probably navigate the MYSA site and find the list of MRL teams with the Premier teams highlighted. Just ask the question...
"Any thoughts on these teams?"
The bigger question is can the discussion stay civil without tearing down coaches, clubs, MYSA, or individual players?
Of the MRL Premier teams I know Burnsville U-15 is new but have either of the other two teams played in the Premier league before this season? How did they do? I am amazed how many MN teams are traveling extensively. All three of the Premier team will have heavy travel, MTA with the ECNL league has a big travel schedule, Wayzata,Rev,St Croix,MTA,SSM, (others I'm sure) all have several teams traveling all over the country to some pretty highly rated tournaments and by the sounds of it some of our MN teams have done pretty well. MN soccer is fairly disfunctional in many respects, but we are putting out some decent teams and getting some pretty seriously commited players by quite a few teams/ clubs.
3:01- I thought that anyone who puts any stock in these "scrimmages" was stupid? I thought they made no difference? Which was is it?
Save your judgement on whether or not the SSM U17s are competitive or not for this Spring. I would not judge the "competitiveness" of that team based on recent results. However, if you insist- what was the score of the SSM U17s vs. the current State Cup champion for their age?
SSM 2- Woodbury 0....but take that with a grain of salt, so to speak, didn't most of the top Woodbury players go to EP? Like the above poster said, wait until Spring. SSM dealing with ALOT of injuries to key players.
Now, what about real results? What about the results from out of State tournaments from each of these teams?
I hardly think that SSM is "afraid" to travel to play anyone in Minnesota. My guess is that MN teams aren't inviting them. Why would MTA want to bring in SSM teams to compete on the girls' side? MTA Blue and the SSM U17s have NEVER met. MTA has declined to play them, and has successfully ducked them at every turn. So, remember that when you are pointing fingers there are three pointing back at you.
9:28 That 2-0 ssm score was against the almost relegated woodbury squad at u17 this year . No players went to ep. In ssm defense , they have many younger players and wouldbe more well suited playing top state teams at u15 and u16. As for scrimmage results being unimportant.... while this is true for various club teams working on early season team chemistry , not true for ssm ,this is a full-time soccer school-club....all contests are games.
just for clarification: the current U17 Wayzata team was last year's U16 state cup champs the current U18 Woodbury team was last year's U17 state cup champs i believe both ssm teams have beaten a wayzata team just not sure which one at which age or the team referenced above.
SSM U17s have beaten last year's (this year's U17) State Cup Champs from Wayzata. The score of that game was, indeed, 2-0. I will make no further commentary on that game.
11:34- Let me see if I have this straight- you say that the winter scrimmages mean nothing to anyone except for SSM. And the reason you give is that other teams are "working on early season chemistry"? Is this honestly your best argument? Early season? Did tryouts just happen? Have none of the club teams played together before? Or, is it just that the coaches are trying different combinations/players at different positions to see what may be best for them? Which is it?
BTW- the loss by the Wayzata team to SSM was only two weeks prior to Disney. BTW- before anyone makes uneducated comments about how competitive or not-competitive a team is, maybe they could check the team's schedule and scores? I would say that all the SSM teams are "competitive" based on results from real games.
I have watched teams in scrimmages over the years and I believe every coach handles scrimmages differently. Some coaches do everything in their power to win the scrimmage. Some teams bring in guest players as a reward or an evaluation opportunity for a possible addition to the team. Other teams will use the scrimmage as an opportunity to try players in new positions or experiment with new formations. Some teams will go so far as to add guest players from older teams or higher level teams just to win the scrimmage.
Bottom line is every coach looks at scrimmages differently.
People, who really cares what scores are at what events. These players at EVERY club are getting training and development. As for showcases, the college scouts that do come could really care less who wins. Again, they are not there to scout a team, they are there to scout PLAYERS. Your in a dream world if you think the MN State Cup has any meaning. Big Deal.
However, lets put a differnt spin on things, MTA, as good as everyone thinks they are, and I dont care whate age, if they are all that, then why on earth is the Univ of MN Golden Gophers not a better college team since the coach mostly recruits from this club?? Lets think about this. And if the coach isnt recruiting from MTA, then she is recruiting other MN clubs. She doesnt do much out of state recruiting, as history has shown us. But wait, these players that head to the GG's were SO good at U14, they won a MN State Cup patch.
2:38 - your argument regarding the GG's IMO does not make a lot of sense. To use your phrase "MTA, as good as everyone thinks they are, and I dont care whate age, if they are all that" what or who are you comparing them to? The best in MN since they win a lot of state cups? If so, then the GG's would most likely be the best college team in MN. The best in RII? If so, that's not true as rarely do any of their teams make it to the Regional semi-finals. If so, then the GG's would be a middle of the pack (sometimes higher-sometimes lower just like their age group teams) in the B10 whose teams almost mirror most of RII. If my take is off please let me know where you were heading with your viewpoint.
Went to a recent "scrimmage" at SSM, to see a soccer game, and what I saw was a football game. Not much fun to watch, and I don't think it was much fun for "some" of the players. Surprised there were no serious injuries. There was a gentleman in yellow running around the field during the game, but I am not sure why he was there...
one could argue that any success that the u of Mn has is a testament to the aggregate of MN youth soccer. mn has far too many soccer clubs today and could probably field better teams regionally with less clubs. if mta was a more universally attractive option focused on high level teams only they might have a chance. having multiple teams blue/white/grey/silver/burnt siena at half their levels shows they aren't committed and focused on elite soccer only. this is an age old conversation and i don't mean to post the obvious. i am not an mta basher because they are doing what they think they need to do to survive (make profit). i wish mta were much smaller and narrowly focused on top teams (aka ssm). i think ssm is too much a rich school that attracts the kids with means as opposed to a true consolidation of the best players. i have said before, any team (especially boys) that proclaims to be best that doesn't include kids from a diverse pool (ethnic and economic) isn't the best team.
Hate to burst your bubble 5:01, but if MTA only had one or maybe two truly elite teams, what would make you think anyone who is currently not playing for them would now want to play for them? I seriously doubt the issue turning them off are the lesser quality teams. I might be wrong, but please provide some insight into your thinking.
cheap play is to be expected out of ssm whenever playing against them in faribault...the head coach of the u18 girls coaching staff, in particular, has a history of explicitly instructing his players to injure opponents when he doesn't agree with the way the refs ssm hired are calling the game.
Pretty funny to hear the spin on SSM and WDBY game - When the games are called one sided, especially when there are chops in the back, intended slids that are not "all balls", I'm sure you get the point. Any team that plays SSM in Fairbault knows that the referee situation is less than fair. This would be why when SSM travels, their luck isn't as good. This would be why SSM got knocked out of the state cup last year.
It is really discouraging to read the posts above. I honestly hope that none of you really believe what you write. I guess if you did, you wouldn't hide as an anon?
1) Eagan girls defeated SSM U17s because they played well and SSM didn't. Ever have one of those games that you know you'd have won 99 out of 100 times? SSM didn't get the job done that day. There are injuries as someone stated, and I am pretty proud of how they are playing right now with 2-3 U14s starting. These things happen, that is why they play the games.
2) The kids are definately always playing to win. No arguments. But, with a large percentage of the players out, there are many who are playing new positions just to field the team for the scheduled games.
3) I cannot believe we are discussing the "SSM is only for rich kids" thing. Have we not kicked this dead horse? Have you done any research based on the comments which have been posted here regarding scholarships or need based financial aid? Please do the research or shut up already?!
4) The officials are the same at SSM as you would see at any MYSA league game or tourney. SSM does not have their own referees. These guys aren't SSM supporters, we complain about them many times also. This is less of an SSM problem and more of a MN problem. My kid happens to be sitting out now because of injuries incurred in an out of control game. It doesn't only happen to the teams playing SSM.
5) I cannot believe that someone had the audacity to accuse Coach Linenberger of having "a history of explicitly instructing his players to injure opponents when he doesn't agree with the way the refs ssm hired are calling the game." I have never experienced this, nor have I ever heard any player say this takes place. IF you have evidence of this, I suggest you present it to either MYSA or USYS. If not, then I suggest you apologize for the slanderous comments. They do definately fit the legal definition of it....
6) Lastly, I am curious what 6:43 is using as a reference to determine that when SSM travels the luck isn't so good? One game? One tournament? Or are you looking at the overall picture? Obviously you are not.
Bottom line- The things that are being posted here are not productive, accurate, or useful. I think that non-productive and non-useful are probably alright, but the inaccurate statements really ruin the whole site.
Then answer this How come all the SSM games appear to be out of control.... by your post, I guess you made my point. Too bad your daughter got hurt from one of those Out of control games! There are many good ref's through out MN, try hiring one of those and then people would probably lay off your precious SSM. Since SSM records all their games maybe you should watch one.
Have you been to "all the SSM games" to know that they "all appear out of control"? Didn't think so...
Quite frankly, I am at nearly all of the U17 girls games so I don't need to watch the recordings. They don't all get recorded anyway, only some. Again, I guess that guessing at facts is good enough for you?
If the games truly are that bad, I would imagine that coaches would refuse to come back. That doesn't seem to be the case as we seem to see the same teams over and over. I typically don't see coaches yelling at the referees- only upset parents. 90% of which have never bothered to go through a course to learn what Law 11 is, but they'll bitch about it.
My daughter was injured by an inappropriate late hit out of bounds - an apparent retaliation for a card received for my kid being taken down from behind (ball nowhere near them). It happens. I am quite sure that the other team's coach didn't "order the hit".
I was at the SSM U17 Eagan game, and your description reflects exactly what I saw. Eagan brought more energy to the game. They scored on a nice shot from 25M to the upper corner, scored on a well placed free kick, and got very solid play from their keeper. The referee didn't make a lot of calls, but was consistent on the type of calls made.
The game certainly wasn't an indictment of SSM soccer or their U17 team. On that Sunday, they didn't bring enough energy to the game to win. It happens.
BTW, Eagan enjoys the opportunity to play SSM during the winter. Challenging competition. I think SSM won 3-0 last year.
SSM - you wouldn't be getting so upset if you knew that there wasn't some truth to it! Trying to justify everything SSM does truly makes the point. Since you've been to ALL the games you would know that the opposing coaches do yell at the refs. To be balanced, at the shattuck showcase, the games were ref'd pretty well. It's the individual scrimmages that are the issue. Remember you are the one that used the term "Out of Control game" when referencing your daughters injury.
SSM - your engaging with village idiots of the soccer world - almost all known as "anons"
Bottom line is SSM is good for soccer in MN and for many players that choose to go there.
MTA is good for soccer in MN because it is striving to be competitive at the highest levels and provide top level teams. Many players have benefitted from this top level club
Both SSM and MTA have made the competitive community clubs define and refine their strengths and weaknesses for team & player development.
Because both top level organizations share some common goals there will always be areas of competitiveness that turn into pettiness coming from individuals that need to yap behind a title known as "anon". Most would not have the spine to say what they do, to your face.
Both SSM and MTA should be proud of what they are doing and accomplishing. They should also view each other as competitors. With that comes a desire to beat the snot out of each other when they play against each other. Its too bad that the parents feel they need to do it on a blog site
I just think it would be better to let the players settle things on the field during matches that matter. A coach wants players that want to win every time they step on the field be it a friendly (scrimmage) or a game that matters for something important.
However there should be no parental expectations in friendlies. Those expectations are between the coach and his/her players.
I watched the Dakota Rev team play the SSM u17s - It looked like a competitive soccer game to me.
"Out of control" is a term of relativity if you are not use to higher level competitive soccer. Pssst - in college it gets even more physical.
This site seems to have an overabundance of folks that need the accomplishments of their child to feel good about themselves. SSM, there is nothing you can do to sway them from their narrow-minded opinions that are biased from this character flaw.
I just thought it was time for me to come down from my mountain top and stir the pot deep and thoroughly. ;-)
too the rest of the anons, Wayne H sends his love from U.A.E. as does Hisham
oh thank you tomASS! speaking on behalf of all the anons, not a day goes by that we don't long for your wisdom. i can finally go to bed tonight knowing that all is well with the world........
i can go to bed now knowing that wayne h sends his regards. i have been awake a long time waiting for that message. just piling on actually. thanks for the good post. : )
tomAss- I will not be attending the game this weekend, and will have to take a raincheck. However, if you would stand beneath the camera boom and say "hi"....I'll hear you.
Others, if you are interested in watching the unfettered mayhem which is reported to ensue every time SSM plays a friendly, feel free to watch online.
I, too, have become tired of the slanderous, factless berating of a program- this is what caused me to pop up and post. If you don't like something, fine. But don't tell out and out lies without facts about it. Have some integrity and self pride.
SSM brought up "Out of control game", as far as SSMs program if that's where parents want their kids to go, who cares? The only thing that I care about is when my daughter plays at SSM and the refering is so bad that any of the kids get hurt.
As far as college games we watch an awful lot of them. THere is physical games, which is fine & then there is tackle football which is not soccer. What we witnessed in SSM was football, pushes in the back, slids that were not All ball and tripping. THe sad part is the SSM players have many talented players that they really don't need to resort to that.
Anonymous said... SSM brought up "Out of control game", as far as SSMs program if that's where parents want their kids to go, who cares? The only thing that I care about is when my daughter plays at SSM and the refering is so bad that any of the kids get hurt.
21/2/10 9:35 AM
You have got to be kidding...A Mommy or Daddy afraid that their Mia might get hurt. What on earth are you going to do when your little Mia runs off to college?? Have you seen Michigan play?? Missouri play?? My money you havent. My money you dont know much beyound MN youth soccer.
I watched the game SSM vs. EP U16 game via webcast yesterday. It is available for purchase for like $8, and the purchase of this webcast will yield exactly the kind of "foul" parents have been complaining about on this site. This happens when parents don't understand the LOTG.
A 50/50 ball was contended for directly under the camera and a collision occurred right in front of them. Visiting parents don't know that the camera is picking up their conversations all game long (make a note of this- everyone at home can hear your discussions pretty clearly), and when the contact is made a huge roar erupts from two females. "OH MY GOSH....YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CALL THAT SHOVE". Nope, the referee is not- it was a 50/50 ball which your player tried to shield to gain possession by allowing it to go out. Technically, there was a foul committed when your player shielded (obstruction is against the LOTG), but this doesn't typically get called. I realize that the camera affords a better angle in some cases, and in this one it clearly showed that there was NO extension of arms by the SSM player or anything which would constitute a foul of any kind. Soccer is a contact sport, your daughter WILL be run into and will get knocked down sometimes. YOUR OWN COACH can be heard yelling to the players a few times "that is part of the game".
People, I am not trying to inflame here. Thank you to EP for sending the team to play, it was a pretty good game and I think that both teams benefitted in some way from it. But, the video is great evidence of what parents complain about during games. Parents really need to learn what a foul IS and IS NOT. If the game yesterday was an example of the "dirty and rough play" that takes place at SSM...it is actually physical soccer that you can expect at the next level. And I don't think you'll get an apology for the level of physicality in the game yesterday. It appeared to be officiated pretty well, I saw no real problems and the game definately did not get out of control.
Kids will foul in a game, it happens both on purpose and on accident. If your child has never committed a foul or gotten a yellow card- I would argue that they aren't working hard enough? Unpopular view I suppose, but ask yourself why they don't throw a kid out after 5 fouls like in basketball? Contact sport people, live with it or take up curling.
To begin, I am not terribly computer literate, but have seen the rants from named posters so am trying to add my moniker, hope it works.
Recently, there have been a few posts regarding rough play, players getting hurt etc. The most disappointing is that ignorant parents, coaches, and players feel that the referee is the cause. Don't get me wrong, all referees understand they are there to keep the game safe, (more experienced refs are usually better than newer) but they cannot prevent your child from being fouled (whether on purpose or by accident). What they can do is penalize the offender once the foul occurred.
Most of us would gladly entertain a calm discussion of what constitutes a caution and/or ejection, but rarely are spectators or coaches civil enough to have a real conversation during or after a game.
Also, please people, stop reciting false LOTG. For those of you who didn't pick up on this, it means Laws of the Game. Why? There is no such Law called obstruction (nor is there a law called hand ball), and your interpretation of IMPEDING is flawed and not within the current USSF thinking.
Please be aware that USSF and FIFA change their opinions constantly, and most fans of the game do not know what a referee is instructed to consider fouling or not, then there is the concept of a trivial foul- which is not supposed to be whistled.
I am not trying to insult any of you, just give the view of part of the game that is very misunderstood. A great source for those of you who really want to know is the Advice to Referees published by USSF- you can find it at US Soccer website.
Lastly, if you want to bash a referee for something you perceive as being a homer, think about it, does your boss give you assignments if they do not like your style? Neither do referee assignors-real life sucks doesn't it.
Next topic? How about handling? They are instructing referees to only whistle "intentional", and only in certain situations, so please stop yelling HAND BALLLLLLLL, even when a player gains an advantage it may not be intentional handling.
OLD-REF- great to see a new poster here. Especially one who seems to have no specific axe to grind, but rather wants to give information.
You are correct about my terminology use, I do apologize. The ball in question was not a playable distance as both players were sprinting toward it. One player was not trying to get to the ball, but trying to keep the other from getting to it. So, it COULD have been whistled in this case....but as I said it rarely, if ever, is called. But, that is of little consequence.
The real meat of my point really is much the same as your point. Parents need to get even a basic understanding of the game. It IS a contact sport, and it is unlike girls' lacrosse or hockey in that there isn't necessarily a foul just because contact was made and someone hit the ground.
I think it would be a great asset if you could stick around and continue to jump in from time to time to explain the error of our ways.
You haven't seen physical until you see Big Ten soccer. Every team has a few thugs and holding is common and rarely called. Injuries are common and the games have been getting more physical every year. That's why more coaches are trying to recruit hockey players.
SSM & Old ref- A player can play the ball without touching the ball. Right,wrong? To me, unless a player put arms and elbows to widen themselves, I don't see the foul for playing between their opponent and the ball as long as they are moving the ball.
See....true debate can still occur! Old Ref, thanks for your input. As one of the "village idiots", I was never disparaging SSM. Only stating facts as I saw them. I have no problem with physical play, as I know that it is part of the game, as are injuries. Further, I was not disparaging ALL refs, as I know it can be very a very difficult job, and I know that Refs can not prevent injuries. BUT, refs certainly can and do set a tone of a game. It happens in every single sport that has referees or officials. When two teams start a game, human nature of a competitive person is to push the limits of what is allowed on the field. Again, this happens at every level of every sport. Some refs are great at setting that "line", and others....not so good. If the "line" is not set, rough play will continue to escalate, tit for tat, until until many times it becomes out of hand. Many times, out of frustration by one side or the other. It is in these times, that unfurtunately injuries happen, that may have been avoided. It is bad enough during an official game, but just plain stupid during a "friendly" scrimmage.
but if you must know you can purchase on SSM's web site for $8.00 or since I paid for the broadcast privilege you can purchase a DVD from me for $25.00
The real score was 0-0. Not an overly "pretty" game to watch.
I don't know what you mean by "moving the ball" in your question above? If the player doesn't touch it and didn't set it in motion, how could they move the ball?
SSM South (and Larry), you're right impeding IS rarely called.
Although I obviously didn't see the actual scenario that you described, many of us look for actually impeding an opponent, not just getting in the way of the opponent.
Like Larry seemed to be getting at, unless the player is getting his arms out, or holding back the opponent it usually doesn't lead me to blow the whistle. Why? I feel every player has the same right to "play the ball" the way he/she chooses, fast, slow, far, near, UNTIL he/she begins to directly affect the opponent. If the opponent could go around the player, (even if they have to go wide), then it is the same to me as shielding the ball.
In fact, during yearly recertification training and testing, this issue has been discussed in detail. Specifically in situations where the defending player darts back and forth (left and right) in an effort to shield the ball as it goes over the goal line for a goal kick. The discussion centers around referees wanting to somehow remove this dangerous situation from games. We really do want the beautiful game to be beautiful.
The response from assessors and high level USSF trainers is that there is nothing wrong with this tactic, and the offensive player who makes contact should be whistled and in many cases cautioned for fouling from behind. Yes, most of the time the offense gets very frustrated and fouls recklessly, which should lead to a caution.
Sorry, a little long winded again, but hopefully getting the viewpoint across.
Interesting original post. I took your advice and read the info on the US Soccer website. My observations are
1. According to the website, a tactical foul such as impeding or holding the shirt requires a caution for unsporting behavior. In general, it should take place in an area that blunts a potential successful attack to be called. I have watched several hundred youth soccer matches in MN at the upper levels MN (I understand what that means regionally and nationally) and I have never seen a tactical foul called. I see the potential to make the call in nearly every match.
In the several hundred games mentioned, I have not yet seen a total of double digits in yellow cards given, and almost all I have seen were for dissent. I see play warranting a caution in most matches, often several times, according to the guidelines given on the website.
There seems to be a reluctance to issue cautions. Why?
Old Ref - have you played the game? Not trying to be caustic, honest question. When I use to be able to referee, my playing experience provided me with the foundation for understanding the environment and intent players were trying to create within the game.
Like any recipe, too much of any one ingredient can ruin the dish. Game management should not rely on the use of cards as first resort or last resort.
tomASS, so what your saying is, a foul isnt a foul?? Im a x-ref as well, you should call what you see. simple as that. know the book and rules, call what you see, not what you thought you saw. Sell the call. The ref is in charge of the field. Its yours. No ref should be on the field to understanding the intent of players. Your job, to make calls, make sure the game is played within the rules. NOT to judge the players intent, if there is a foul, there is a foul. You DONT need to be a x-player.
2/22 8:10 There seems to be a reluctance to issue cautions. Why?
IMO there are several reasons why. Many referees are under the impression that if they issue a caution they are somehow negatively changing the game. In most cases, not issuing the caution is negatively affecting the game but there is a culture and attitude out there to keep players on the field and this competes with whistling the game properly. Consider the differences in a Hispanic league v. a caucasion league (or youth games). Many more cautions and ejections occur in the Hispanic leagues because the culture surrounding their soccer understands the reasoning for cautions better (again IMO).
To agree with you further, more cautions should be issued for late tackles, and fouls from behind, but again because so few refs issue them, coaches and players perceive the correct calls to be excessive or incorrect(which leads to further reluctance).
Another difficult issue for referees, including myself, is having the courage to make the correct call and/or issue cautions/ejections. What makes it most difficult is balancing the courage with directives to keep the game flowing and not call trifling or trivial fouls...
It is a challenge, but we truly are trying, and some of us actually self assess after good games and not so good games to find the style that works best.
tomAss- I did play the game for almost 30 years (average player at best-but love the game and am very jealous of the level of training and coaching kids get now), and coached. I agree that playing experiences do help, expecially when it comes to managing players and anticipating game situations that have the potential to be MOT's (moments of truth), where a referee needs to be close and verbal to avoid nasty situations... I have found that the referees I try to emulate, find these MOTs and manage them therefore the need for cautions or ejections is reduced.
OLD REF - your posts are entirely too thought out and composed in how you express your views. You are making it very hard to criticize and pick them apart.......but don't worry, there will be a few who will attempt.
As a soccer novice and not having any real exposure to the game, I have had the privilege of being informed by a number of Ref's as to why they made or did not make a call (NOTE: not during the game). This is usually done during half-time. The REF'S will stop by the parents and ask if we have any questions. Thus far, this has been well received. (This has happened in MN, CA, IL and KS)
Over the last 4 years the level and quality of play has greatly improved. There have been some rule changes and noticably the game has become more physical. I think we all can accept the physicality but not the cheapness that is now apart of the game. IMO I notice that there are a few of the players playing out side of their ability and become frustrated, ie the pushing from behind and tackling with no intent on playing the ball.
The biggest complaint I have always had (and this complaint was true of myself also when had a badge and was actively officiating games)- is that there is a definate difference in how the male game is played/officiated versus the female game.
Males are much more physical than females, and are covered under the same laws-- but the female game is called much more closely.
The biggest complaint I have always had (and this complaint was true of myself also when had a badge and was actively officiating games)- is that there is a definate difference in how the male game is played/officiated versus the female game.
Males are much more physical than females, and are covered under the same laws-- but the female game is called much more closely.
935 - never said anything about fouls not being fouls, please re-read.
but there is a difference between a late sloppy tackle versus one that has intent to inflict pain. One probably deserves a quiet word with the player if it is the first challenge of this nature, the other one with a yellow or even straight red even if it is the first foul of this nature. Both were fouls, but should not be treated in the same way.
or an inadvertent elbow when one goes up for a header versus a deliberate elbow in a 50/50 challenge for a header. I find referees that have played the game understand that both are fouls but may need to be handled differently in dealing with the punishment.
Handling as old referee has perfectly explained is one that also requires interpreting intent of the situation.
how high are the cleats up? Ball high or mid shin high? For me- ball high, cleats up improper technique deserving of a yellow to prevent a bad tackler from using that technique again.
Higher then ball there's intent.
Where were the eyes focused on ball or player? What was the angle of the approach before the foul? Anything happen prior that could cause retaliation?
Was there any form of additional follow-through causing the tackle to be even more careless and reckless
Thee are many reads a referee needs to make before he makes a decision about intent.
blood is not in the consideration for me. Some players bleed easier than others ;-)
hey TOMass, do the rules state that ball high, cleats up improper technique deserve a yellow or is that your interpretation of how the rules should be applied?
354 - if careless no, if reckless most likely since it can be considered serious foul play, and if delivered with excessive force that could be viewed as violent conduct by the center official then it would be a red.
All of this falls under the interpretation of the laws of the game and guidelines for referees
Can't answer that unless it can be viewed. 50/50 ball ? In the air / on the ground? Field player has as much right to a 50/50 ball as a goalkeeper does.
WOW, I asked a honest question regarding cautions, and OLDREF gave an honest answer without sarcasm, without questioning my motives, and without belittling me or my soccer knowledge.
Not a goalie parent but I was at a game where the goalie would have the ball in her hands, and three different times the opposing team plowed right into and flipped her on her back. I was surprised when no call was made as I thought that once the goalie had the ball there wasn't supposed to be contact.Interesting that a simple question can not be asked with out the stupid comment "must be a goalie parent"
Not a goalie parent but I was at a game where the goalie would have the ball in her hands, and three different times the opposing team plowed right into and flipped her on her back. I was surprised when no call was made as I thought that once the goalie had the ball there wasn't supposed to be contact.Interesting that a simple question can not be asked with out the stupid comment "must be a goalie parent"
tomAss is responding with some decent insight into the making of a call and decision process on talking to/cautioning/or sending off of players. Unfortunately his answers will be frustrating to many soccer fans, due to the complexity of decisions needed to make most MOT calls.
It really is subjective, it is really difficult and IMO being consistent should be a priority. SOme games need very tight refereeing, some can be allowed to ebb and flow-and this can include the two same teams on different days. Folks, this is the beauty of the game. You can never get bored with it.
One thing you didn't mention tomAss, but it appears that you are aware of- IMO to do a decent job a referee must get a "feel" of the game, and react accordingly.
If a GK has possession of the ball and is bumped in the normal course of play, I try to talk to the player telling them to avoid contact. If the player is reckless, either a very stern demand to stop making contact or a caution-again, the feel of the game would dictate. Multiple times, usually means you didn't react properly to begin with ...
1:57 PM I really don't want to admit it but I will. I think I call the game more tentatively in womens matches.
I think refereeing the womens games are much more difficult than mens. Why? Well, for one, men are easier to read. You can see a nasty foul coming and try to talk them out of it with things like "I'm here", "don't foul him" etc. Women are sneaky ;)(translation-harder to read), and are very patient when it comes to retaliating. I mean no disrespect, that's just my experience. If a woman is fouled hard, very often the retaliation will occur, but much later and sometimes in subsequent matches weeks or months later. If they haven't already retaliated, men get up and shove, swear, or even yell at me. Some retaliate on their next opportunity, but if play goes for more than a few minutes without an opportunity, a lot of the times they'll get back to playing.
It may look to some degree that more is let go in the mens game, because I think it is easier to apply advantage in mens matches. I tend to be a little slower on the whistle in womens matches (waiting to see how body language looks-again trying to get a "feel" for the game), but apply advantage less often especially when unsure.
Before every high level competetive game I look at a list of notes I have for myself when preparing for the match. #1 for womens games reminds me to call the game the same way as a mens game- a foul is a foul regardless of gender. It's not perfect, but still trying to improve every match...
I guess I would be happy with my performance if you said I didn't let anything go in a womens match, or for that matter in a mens.
11:49, not trying to rip on you, but very few soccer situations are specifically listed in the Laws of the Game (rule book). So many are considered to be in the discretion of the referee-but I do believe it is unanimous that cleats up is dangerous and therefore unacceptable.
In high level games most cleats up are straight red, because it can be expected that the players are capable of controlling themselves in any situation on the field. Younger games are harder to caution or eject due to the lower ability to control their bodies, but it does need to be dealt with seriously.
ECNL announces expansion for 2001-12, impressive list
The ECNL is pleased to announce and welcome the addition of 12 new clubs for the 2010-2011 ECNL season: Carmel United, DeAnza Force(CA-N), FC Bucks(PA), KCFC, Michigan Hawks, Real So Cal, San Diego Surf, Scorpions(MA), Slammers FC(CA-S), Utah Avalanche, Vardar and Washington Premier.
Last years North Saint Paul Soccer Coach....you all know who...DV. I heard he asked for 5 figgure amount to coach HIGH SCHOOL. What a joke DV. I hope you read this you arrogant bas****. You want more money for what??? You had a ton of talent on NSP team last fall. It was nothing a to justify a $20,000.00 High School salary. Stick with your Foot Tech.....thing.
5:46 I agree, more than 5 grand to me is too much....a 10 week season. I totally disagree with your analysis of the Polar talent pool. 4 players is not loaded. You must be the same parent that was angry when he made the team do sprints after a game.
5:46 I agree, more than 5 grand to me is too much....a 10 week season. I totally disagree with your analysis of the Polar talent pool. 4 players is not loaded. You must be the same parent that was angry when he made the team do sprints after a game.
6:42- I have pointed this out time and time again....please only hit enter once. You double post every single time. It really isn't that hard. It appears as though there is only one person who doesn't get it?
Can someone please let me know how the seedings for State Cup U-14 and above are determined. Is it Premier teams get ranked somehow so the top teams are not in the same pool or is there some other criteria. Appreciate your help clearing this up, I swear I have been through the entire MYSA site and can't find the answer.
You find the answer under state cup and the PDF presentation given by Tom M.
Last years performace determines if a team get a seeded or not premier teams and MRL only teams do not have to do play in games if one is needed unless there is no or only one C1 team or lower level playing team
9:33 Thanks for your amswer. It still seems odd that the seeding is only based on the past years State Cup results. It is possible to have all MRL only and Premier teams in a bracket and C1 teams only in another bracket. Obviously as you get older fewer C1 teams participate but at 14-16 several C1 teams will be in especially considering 3 Premier teams were relegated from Premier at the current U-16 age group.
Could easily end up with a "group of death" at U14 if Rev and MTA end up in the same pool with EP. Since only one would advance to the semis, it would have an impact for the seeding for the following year too.
no matter who's in what pool, in the end, shouldn't the best team ending up winning state cup? either you beat them in your pool, the semi's, or the finals, anyway you look at you still have to beat them.
If you are talking u14 you better not rule out cottage grove, if memory serves they beat REV in the MYSA state tournament. Who is coaching the MTA team? Is AK and MA banned from the entire complex while thier teams are playing, or only from the sidelines?
259 it's a sliding scale depending on head or assistant + time in grade. most head varsity coaches start around $5500 and move up slowly. assistants, around $3200. some of the wages for additional coaches are picked up by the booster clubs. i think i can say, none of the coaches are getting rich, and the vast majority are in it for the kids....not the parents.
Good question 2:35 PM. MA should be banned from the entire complex, but unless his repimand specifically states that, I'm sure he can watch the games. Do you think MYSA officials will be watching him at state cup?
I have pointed this out time and time again....please only hit enter once. You double post every single time. It really isn't that hard. It appears as though there is only one person who doesn't get it?
Is Kaasa out at MTA next year? He is listed as a Director for East Ridge Soccer Club. Is that where all the MTA folks are going? Looks like MA, AK, and PW are all in charge there. Does anyone know any concrete info?
ECNL add more team for next year, now they have almost all the top clubs in the country. From Region II Hawks, Vardar (top two from MI) Carmel (top club from IN) are in now. Most of the top SoCal teams are in now too. This is a great thing for women's soccer. To bad the US Soccer Fed is not involved.
The USSF IS involved 5:05. They are the controlling body for all that is soccer in the United States. US Club, and the USYS are all under the USSF control.
What is the difference between US Club and USYS? Are they competitors or do they work together for a common goal? How does ODP fit into either of these organizations?
US Club and USYS are competitors. US Club has the id2 program and USYS has the ODP program for identifying top talent for recommendation onto the national teams.
USYS is not involved with ECNL. On the boys side USSF has the Academy run by US Soccer. On the girls side ECNL is run by the clubs. ECNL awesome advantage for kids playing for MTA. State cup and regionals will not be part of ECNL team events starting in 11 or 12.
The ECNL appears to hold their "league games" at showcase events around the country, like Vegas and Disney. The events are not exclusive to the ECNL teams. Since the MTA teams, and other top teams from MN, already participate in these showcase events, the added value seems questionable. In theory the players get better recognition by national college coaches, and a more varied consistent level of high competition.
MN currently is challenged in the MRL premier league (no champions)and Region II championships (very few champions in history). It would seem that they are already sufficiently challenged. Teams like the Stars, Inferno, and EP already compete in showcase events against national competition.
The ECNL will allow MTA teams inclusion into national showcase events without building a team resume until the club fails to produce competitive teams. It will allow MTA to avoid playing any other competition from MN in State Cup, and allow MTA to avoid the annual MN futility in the Region II championships.
Families with a promising soccer athlete that are willing to pony up the money for a schedule of national tournaments will probably benefit a little over the current system if their daughter can make the MTA Blue team and get regular playing time. That will be maybe 14 players each year. The rest will be subsidizing the club and the Blue team players
The MTA Stars did not have any players get scholarships to D-1 schools outside of Region II despite being competitive in many national showcase events and a top 25 national ranking. The Inferno has one going to FSU. Maybe the ECNL concept will alter that by playing in more national showcase events, but the college coaches find the talent fairly effectively now.
Lots of maybe to the ECNL for MN kids - nothing concrete or obvious other than higher expenses.
9:27, Several MTA Stars players had offers from schools other than Region 2 schools but they chose to attend schools closer to home. RH for one had offers from several D1 programs outside of Region 2 geography. I know others who had a few offers from East coast schools. You really should know more of the facts before sticking your foot in mouth.
same with Inferno. cs had opportunities to go outside of rii but opted to go to wi.
you do make a valid point that is tough to refute.....why travel all over if 98+% of the kids are going to end up (by choice or as their only option) playing college soccer in their backyard.
....because you can't get that level of getting to pick from the best colleges in your region by only playing teams in your backyard. If you live in So. Cal or TX you have a valid argument.
so what your saying is..........the coaches from the "best colleges in your region" (which appear to be MN/WI based on where the players are going and those college's programs) wouldn't be able to evaluate player talent unless the top local teams are playing some out of region team ranked between 60-150 in the nation (gotsoccer.com reference).
10:50 - take a deep breath - you just reinforced my point (and I'm glad to hear that RH had options, she picked a fine school in Indiana with a solid academic reputation, and had a very successful freshman season, similar to her club teammate BP).
The Stars played plenty of showcases in a national setting. Their players ended up staying in Region II, some with other national options. It seems a stretch to say participation in the ECNL will result in more national exposure than has already been available, and it is certainly doubtful that more scholarships outside Region II will come about.
I question the value of the ECNL to the players. The value to MTA as a marketing tool is more clear.
There seems to be alot of talk about the Stars players playing at "D1". If that includes places like Green Bay, North Dakota, North Dakota State, Valpo and the like, I have one question. Are those teams really D1 in skill/talent level, or in status only?
Also, it seems as though many are continuing to confuse the ECNL with DAP. ECNL teams still participate in State Cup. If the Clubs participating had to give up USYS National Championship aspirations to belong, they would not participate in ECNL. That is a no-brainer.
How do you think that Eclipse, for example, becomes the top rated girls club in the US? And that ranking brings them players, and thus money. It IS a business.
1,123 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 1123 Newer› Newest»5:51's first sentence is very accurate as their event falls right after all the regional tournaments which for many teams/clubs is the wrap up of their calendar soccer year. It would be interesting to see who/where all the super high level July tournaments are across the country. I think it would also be a good idea to define "high level". Are we talking top 50-75 national teams, top 25-50 regional teams, MRL Premier, MRL 1st Division, etc....
that is the first ever double post by me
that is the first ever double post by me
Big scrimmage at U-14 this weekend. Top two teams play on Sat. The score of scrimmages is certainly is not representative of the "better team" but it will be interesting to see how these two teams match up.
I thought the mantra on this board is that "scrimmage results mean nothing"? Make up your mind, I am having a hard time keeping up.
1:25...stutter much
And the results were...........
2-1 MTA close battle could be a great state cup match up if both teams stay healthy.
Which teams? MTA Blue 2 vs ? 1
Was it MTA Blue v MTA White?
MTA White is not in the top group, it would be MTA Blue vs. DR as the top two teams.
for those of you new to this board, the last few posts signal the beginning of 4-6 months of banter on who is better u14MTA Blue vs Dak rev u14. Their other names are 'two of the state's few regionally competitive girls teams (at any age) that coincidentally didn't even win state cup at u13'. I'm psyched!
10:30...who's better than these two? lets just hope the best mn team gets sent to regionals...time will tell!
My bet is that the team that wins state cup will go to regionals just like last year and all the years before that. It will probably be one of these two teams but maybe not (see last year with injuries and some questionable decisions by coaches).
10:30 is spot on.
heard that eagen 16 girls defeated ssm 17's 2-0 at shattuck this past weekend ?
Yep. They did. What else would you like to know?
Good response =)
Congrats to L Miller from Thunder she made the U15 national team.
http://www.insidemnsoccer.com/
That is the ONLY answer one can give to that question on this blog. Otherwise, you either get "....who cares" or "....those SSM people are easy to rile up".
So, simple, direct questions is all will get an answer from me.
SSM-South Campus - come say hello and introduce yourself next Saturday. Always enjoyed your insight and comments
If I am there, I will do that. Just found out today that my player has a pretty significant ankle injury. Find out on Monday if surgery needed.....
Good Luck to her and a quick and speedy recovery hopefully without involving surgery.
whatever the course, make sure she is 100% before letting her on the pitch again. Players have a tendency to want to comeback sooner than they should
10/2/10 2:25 PM -- I don't care for your negativism, but please tell us your life story.
How many girls MN teams are playing spring MRL, does anyone know offhand? Any playing Premier MRL or just regular?
2:13- ?
Bville u15, EP u17, and Woodbury 18's are playing MRL Premier. The rest are lowly 1st division teams. These 'just regular' 1st division wannabes are unable to match the soccer prowess of these fine squads and the progenetive power of their parents. They are not worthy.
No need to go trolling 4:50. You found this site so you can probably navigate the MYSA site and find the list of MRL teams with the Premier teams highlighted. Just ask the question...
"Any thoughts on these teams?"
The bigger question is can the discussion stay civil without tearing down coaches, clubs, MYSA, or individual players?
15/2/10 6:21 PM -- is your response your life story or are you questioning my request in response to "What else would you like to know?"
16/2/10 8:51 AM
civil? look at your own writing dude!
Of the MRL Premier teams I know Burnsville U-15 is new but have either of the other two teams played in the Premier league before this season? How did they do?
I am amazed how many MN teams are traveling extensively. All three of the Premier team will have heavy travel, MTA with the ECNL league has a big travel schedule, Wayzata,Rev,St Croix,MTA,SSM, (others I'm sure) all have several teams traveling all over the country to some pretty highly rated tournaments and by the sounds of it some of our MN teams have done pretty well. MN soccer is fairly disfunctional in many respects, but we are putting out some decent teams and getting some pretty seriously commited players by quite a few teams/ clubs.
Which St. Croix teams are traveling? Where?
For anyone interested, here is the schedule for the MTA showcase in St Cloud this weekend.
Saturday February 20
Kick off Time Home Team Away Team
7:40 AM Mequon Red Omaha FC Rapids
9:00 AM MN Thunder 93 Blue Toro Deportivo
10:20 AM Dakota Alliance MN Thunder 94 Silver
11:40 AM New United MN Thunder 94 Blue
1:00 PM Omaha FC MRL MN Thunder 93 White
2:20 PM Toro Deportivo MYSC Yahara
3:40 PM Mequon Red MN Thunder 94 White
5:00 PM Omaha FC Rapids MN Thunder 94 Silver
6:20 PM MN Thunder 93 White Dakota Alliance
7:40 PM MYSC Yahara New United
9:00 PM MN Thunder 94 Blue Omaha FC MRL
Sunday February 21
Kick off Time Home Team Away Team
7:40 AM MN Thunder 93 White Toro Deportivo
9:00 AM MN Thunder 93 Blue New United
10:20 AM MN Thunder 94 White Omaha FC Rapids
11:40 AM Mequon Red MN Thunder 94 Silver
1:00 PM Dakota Alliance Omaha FC MRL
2:20 PM MYSC Yahara MN Thunder 93 Blue
3:40 PM MN Thunder 94 Blue MN Thunder 94 White
Home teams should wear dark jersey's and away teams should wear white.
SSM afraid to play anywhere but at home. They certainly don't want to get beat by some neighborhood team again. Don't blame em for staying home.
ONLY MN teams are Thunder teams
8:51 - I am 4:50. I wasn't trolling just lazy.
what's the problem with the girls SSM-17 team? Why can't they compete?
301, were they invited??
to what?
3:01- I thought that anyone who puts any stock in these "scrimmages" was stupid? I thought they made no difference? Which was is it?
Save your judgement on whether or not the SSM U17s are competitive or not for this Spring. I would not judge the "competitiveness" of that team based on recent results. However, if you insist- what was the score of the SSM U17s vs. the current State Cup champion for their age?
Please tell us the date and score 7:54 AM
SSM 2- Woodbury 0....but take that with a grain of salt, so to speak, didn't most of the top Woodbury players go to EP? Like the above poster said, wait until Spring. SSM dealing with ALOT of injuries to key players.
Now, what about real results? What about the results from out of State tournaments from each of these teams?
I hardly think that SSM is "afraid" to travel to play anyone in Minnesota. My guess is that MN teams aren't inviting them. Why would MTA want to bring in SSM teams to compete on the girls' side? MTA Blue and the SSM U17s have NEVER met. MTA has declined to play them, and has successfully ducked them at every turn. So, remember that when you are pointing fingers there are three pointing back at you.
Next topic?
Not true 9:37 AM. Scheduling has been an issue.
and the middle one back to you!
9:28
That 2-0 ssm score was against the almost relegated woodbury squad at u17 this year . No players went to ep. In ssm defense , they have many younger players and wouldbe more well suited playing top state teams at u15 and u16. As for scrimmage results being unimportant.... while this is true for various club teams working on early season team chemistry , not true for ssm ,this is a full-time soccer school-club....all contests are games.
just for clarification:
the current U17 Wayzata team was last year's U16 state cup champs
the current U18 Woodbury team was last year's U17 state cup champs
i believe both ssm teams have beaten a wayzata team just not sure which one at which age or the team referenced above.
SSM U17s have beaten last year's (this year's U17) State Cup Champs from Wayzata. The score of that game was, indeed, 2-0. I will make no further commentary on that game.
11:34- Let me see if I have this straight- you say that the winter scrimmages mean nothing to anyone except for SSM. And the reason you give is that other teams are "working on early season chemistry"? Is this honestly your best argument? Early season? Did tryouts just happen? Have none of the club teams played together before? Or, is it just that the coaches are trying different combinations/players at different positions to see what may be best for them? Which is it?
BTW- the loss by the Wayzata team to SSM was only two weeks prior to Disney. BTW- before anyone makes uneducated comments about how competitive or not-competitive a team is, maybe they could check the team's schedule and scores? I would say that all the SSM teams are "competitive" based on results from real games.
18/2/10 1:49 PM
explain why the eagan 16 girls defeated ssm 17's 2-0 at shattuck a few weekends ago
I have watched teams in scrimmages over the years and I believe every coach handles scrimmages differently. Some coaches do everything in their power to win the scrimmage. Some teams bring in guest players as a reward or an evaluation opportunity for a possible addition to the team. Other teams will use the scrimmage as an opportunity to try players in new positions or experiment with new formations. Some teams will go so far as to add guest players from older teams or higher level teams just to win the scrimmage.
Bottom line is every coach looks at scrimmages differently.
People, who really cares what scores are at what events. These players at EVERY club are getting training and development. As for showcases, the college scouts that do come could really care less who wins. Again, they are not there to scout a team, they are there to scout PLAYERS. Your in a dream world if you think the MN State Cup has any meaning. Big Deal.
However, lets put a differnt spin on things, MTA, as good as everyone thinks they are, and I dont care whate age, if they are all that, then why on earth is the Univ of MN Golden Gophers not a better college team since the coach mostly recruits from this club?? Lets think about this. And if the coach isnt recruiting from MTA, then she is recruiting other MN clubs. She doesnt do much out of state recruiting, as history has shown us. But wait, these players that head to the GG's were SO good at U14, they won a MN State Cup patch.
2:38 - your argument regarding the GG's IMO does not make a lot of sense. To use your phrase "MTA, as good as everyone thinks they are, and I dont care whate age, if they are all that" what or who are you comparing them to? The best in MN since they win a lot of state cups? If so, then the GG's would most likely be the best college team in MN. The best in RII? If so, that's not true as rarely do any of their teams make it to the Regional semi-finals. If so, then the GG's would be a middle of the pack (sometimes higher-sometimes lower just like their age group teams) in the B10 whose teams almost mirror most of RII.
If my take is off please let me know where you were heading with your viewpoint.
Went to a recent "scrimmage" at SSM, to see a soccer game, and what I saw was a football game. Not much fun to watch, and I don't think it was much fun for "some" of the players. Surprised there were no serious injuries. There was a gentleman in yellow running around the field during the game, but I am not sure why he was there...
18/2/10 2:25 PM -- looks like you are giving excuses. The bottom line is that the kids are playing to win.
one could argue that any success that the u of Mn has is a testament to the aggregate of MN youth soccer. mn has far too many soccer clubs today and could probably field better teams regionally with less clubs. if mta was a more universally attractive option focused on high level teams only they might have a chance. having multiple teams blue/white/grey/silver/burnt siena at half their levels shows they aren't committed and focused on elite soccer only. this is an age old conversation and i don't mean to post the obvious. i am not an mta basher because they are doing what they think they need to do to survive (make profit). i wish mta were much smaller and narrowly focused on top teams (aka ssm). i think ssm is too much a rich school that attracts the kids with means as opposed to a true consolidation of the best players. i have said before, any team (especially boys) that proclaims to be best that doesn't include kids from a diverse pool (ethnic and economic) isn't the best team.
Hate to burst your bubble 5:01, but if MTA only had one or maybe two truly elite teams, what would make you think anyone who is currently not playing for them would now want to play for them? I seriously doubt the issue turning them off are the lesser quality teams.
I might be wrong, but please provide some insight into your thinking.
449,
cheap play is to be expected out of ssm whenever playing against them in faribault...the head coach of the u18 girls coaching staff, in particular, has a history of explicitly instructing his players to injure opponents when he doesn't agree with the way the refs ssm hired are calling the game.
Pretty funny to hear the spin on SSM and WDBY game - When the games are called one sided, especially when there are chops in the back, intended slids that are not "all balls", I'm sure you get the point. Any team that plays SSM in Fairbault knows that the referee situation is less than fair. This would be why when SSM travels, their luck isn't as good. This would be why SSM got knocked out of the state cup last year.
It is really discouraging to read the posts above. I honestly hope that none of you really believe what you write. I guess if you did, you wouldn't hide as an anon?
1) Eagan girls defeated SSM U17s because they played well and SSM didn't. Ever have one of those games that you know you'd have won 99 out of 100 times? SSM didn't get the job done that day. There are injuries as someone stated, and I am pretty proud of how they are playing right now with 2-3 U14s starting. These things happen, that is why they play the games.
2) The kids are definately always playing to win. No arguments. But, with a large percentage of the players out, there are many who are playing new positions just to field the team for the scheduled games.
3) I cannot believe we are discussing the "SSM is only for rich kids" thing. Have we not kicked this dead horse? Have you done any research based on the comments which have been posted here regarding scholarships or need based financial aid? Please do the research or shut up already?!
4) The officials are the same at SSM as you would see at any MYSA league game or tourney. SSM does not have their own referees. These guys aren't SSM supporters, we complain about them many times also. This is less of an SSM problem and more of a MN problem. My kid happens to be sitting out now because of injuries incurred in an out of control game. It doesn't only happen to the teams playing SSM.
5) I cannot believe that someone had the audacity to accuse Coach Linenberger of having "a history of explicitly instructing his players to injure opponents when he doesn't agree with the way the refs ssm hired are calling the game." I have never experienced this, nor have I ever heard any player say this takes place. IF you have evidence of this, I suggest you present it to either MYSA or USYS. If not, then I suggest you apologize for the slanderous comments. They do definately fit the legal definition of it....
6) Lastly, I am curious what 6:43 is using as a reference to determine that when SSM travels the luck isn't so good? One game? One tournament? Or are you looking at the overall picture? Obviously you are not.
Bottom line- The things that are being posted here are not productive, accurate, or useful. I think that non-productive and non-useful are probably alright, but the inaccurate statements really ruin the whole site.
Then answer this How come all the SSM games appear to be out of control.... by your post, I guess you made my point. Too bad your daughter got hurt from one of those Out of control games! There are many good ref's through out MN, try hiring one of those and then people would probably lay off your precious SSM. Since SSM records all their games maybe you should watch one.
Have you been to "all the SSM games" to know that they "all appear out of control"? Didn't think so...
Quite frankly, I am at nearly all of the U17 girls games so I don't need to watch the recordings. They don't all get recorded anyway, only some. Again, I guess that guessing at facts is good enough for you?
If the games truly are that bad, I would imagine that coaches would refuse to come back. That doesn't seem to be the case as we seem to see the same teams over and over. I typically don't see coaches yelling at the referees- only upset parents. 90% of which have never bothered to go through a course to learn what Law 11 is, but they'll bitch about it.
My daughter was injured by an inappropriate late hit out of bounds - an apparent retaliation for a card received for my kid being taken down from behind (ball nowhere near them). It happens. I am quite sure that the other team's coach didn't "order the hit".
SSM,
I was at the SSM U17 Eagan game, and your description reflects exactly what I saw. Eagan brought more energy to the game. They scored on a nice shot from 25M to the upper corner, scored on a well placed free kick, and got very solid play from their keeper.
The referee didn't make a lot of calls, but was consistent on the type of calls made.
The game certainly wasn't an indictment of SSM soccer or their U17 team. On that Sunday, they didn't bring enough energy to the game to win. It happens.
BTW, Eagan enjoys the opportunity to play SSM during the winter. Challenging competition. I think SSM won 3-0 last year.
SSM - you wouldn't be getting so upset if you knew that there wasn't some truth to it! Trying to justify everything SSM does truly makes the point. Since you've been to ALL the games you would know that the opposing coaches do yell at the refs. To be balanced, at the shattuck showcase, the games were ref'd pretty well. It's the individual scrimmages that are the issue. Remember you are the one that used the term "Out of Control game" when referencing your daughters injury.
SSM - your engaging with village idiots of the soccer world - almost all known as "anons"
Bottom line is SSM is good for soccer in MN and for many players that choose to go there.
MTA is good for soccer in MN because it is striving to be competitive at the highest levels and provide top level teams. Many players have benefitted from this top level club
Both SSM and MTA have made the competitive community clubs define and refine their strengths and weaknesses for team & player development.
Because both top level organizations share some common goals there will always be areas of competitiveness that turn into pettiness coming from individuals that need to yap behind a title known as "anon". Most would not have the spine to say what they do, to your face.
Both SSM and MTA should be proud of what they are doing and accomplishing. They should also view each other as competitors. With that comes a desire to beat the snot out of each other when they play against each other. Its too bad that the parents feel they need to do it on a blog site
I just think it would be better to let the players settle things on the field during matches that matter. A coach wants players that want to win every time they step on the field be it a friendly
(scrimmage) or a game that matters for something important.
However there should be no parental expectations in friendlies. Those expectations are between the coach and his/her players.
I watched the Dakota Rev team play the SSM u17s - It looked like a competitive soccer game to me.
"Out of control" is a term of relativity if you are not use to higher level competitive soccer. Pssst - in college it gets even more physical.
This site seems to have an overabundance of folks that need the accomplishments of their child to feel good about themselves. SSM, there is nothing you can do to sway them from their narrow-minded opinions that are biased from this character flaw.
I just thought it was time for me to come down from my mountain top and stir the pot deep and thoroughly. ;-)
too the rest of the anons, Wayne H sends his love from U.A.E. as does Hisham
oh thank you tomASS! speaking on behalf of all the anons, not a day goes by that we don't long for your wisdom. i can finally go to bed tonight knowing that all is well with the world........
i can go to bed now knowing that wayne h sends his regards. i have been awake a long time waiting for that message. just piling on actually. thanks for the good post. : )
You are so full of it tomASS!
12:26 PM -- i guess you are the ass of the group. Identify yourself if you are so proud not to hide behind a title known as "anon."
who authors this blog anyway?
4:06 - evidently you are a newbie
the name is tomASS Nygaard. What I say here I would say to your face, especially if you are buying the beer.
Need my social security number too?
;-)
12:38 - I felt the karma from my mountain top that you specifically needed a dose of reality and wisdom.
You're looking better already!
3:58 - thanks for your kindness in understating the obvious. No wonder I've felt bloated lately.
4:06 ....again. I bet you can also put 2 +2 together!
Thus the moniker.
Is your name Homer?
tomAss- I will not be attending the game this weekend, and will have to take a raincheck. However, if you would stand beneath the camera boom and say "hi"....I'll hear you.
Others, if you are interested in watching the unfettered mayhem which is reported to ensue every time SSM plays a friendly, feel free to watch online.
I, too, have become tired of the slanderous, factless berating of a program- this is what caused me to pop up and post. If you don't like something, fine. But don't tell out and out lies without facts about it. Have some integrity and self pride.
Any scores or updates from the MTA St. Cloud Showcase?
SSM brought up "Out of control game", as far as SSMs program if that's where parents want their kids to go, who cares? The only thing that I care about is when my daughter plays at SSM and the refering is so bad that any of the kids get hurt.
As far as college games we watch an awful lot of them. THere is physical games, which is fine & then there is tackle football which is not soccer. What we witnessed in SSM was football, pushes in the back, slids that were not All ball and tripping. THe sad part is the SSM players have many talented players that they really don't need to resort to that.
Anonymous said...
SSM brought up "Out of control game", as far as SSMs program if that's where parents want their kids to go, who cares? The only thing that I care about is when my daughter plays at SSM and the refering is so bad that any of the kids get hurt.
21/2/10 9:35 AM
You have got to be kidding...A Mommy or Daddy afraid that their Mia might get hurt. What on earth are you going to do when your little Mia runs off to college?? Have you seen Michigan play?? Missouri play?? My money you havent. My money you dont know much beyound MN youth soccer.
I watched the game SSM vs. EP U16 game via webcast yesterday. It is available for purchase for like $8, and the purchase of this webcast will yield exactly the kind of "foul" parents have been complaining about on this site. This happens when parents don't understand the LOTG.
A 50/50 ball was contended for directly under the camera and a collision occurred right in front of them. Visiting parents don't know that the camera is picking up their conversations all game long (make a note of this- everyone at home can hear your discussions pretty clearly), and when the contact is made a huge roar erupts from two females. "OH MY GOSH....YOU'RE NOT GOING TO CALL THAT SHOVE". Nope, the referee is not- it was a 50/50 ball which your player tried to shield to gain possession by allowing it to go out. Technically, there was a foul committed when your player shielded (obstruction is against the LOTG), but this doesn't typically get called. I realize that the camera affords a better angle in some cases, and in this one it clearly showed that there was NO extension of arms by the SSM player or anything which would constitute a foul of any kind. Soccer is a contact sport, your daughter WILL be run into and will get knocked down sometimes. YOUR OWN COACH can be heard yelling to the players a few times "that is part of the game".
People, I am not trying to inflame here. Thank you to EP for sending the team to play, it was a pretty good game and I think that both teams benefitted in some way from it. But, the video is great evidence of what parents complain about during games. Parents really need to learn what a foul IS and IS NOT. If the game yesterday was an example of the "dirty and rough play" that takes place at SSM...it is actually physical soccer that you can expect at the next level. And I don't think you'll get an apology for the level of physicality in the game yesterday. It appeared to be officiated pretty well, I saw no real problems and the game definately did not get out of control.
Kids will foul in a game, it happens both on purpose and on accident. If your child has never committed a foul or gotten a yellow card- I would argue that they aren't working hard enough? Unpopular view I suppose, but ask yourself why they don't throw a kid out after 5 fouls like in basketball? Contact sport people, live with it or take up curling.
To begin, I am not terribly computer literate, but have seen the rants from named posters so am trying to add my moniker, hope it works.
Recently, there have been a few posts regarding rough play, players getting hurt etc. The most disappointing is that ignorant parents, coaches, and players feel that the referee is the cause. Don't get me wrong, all referees understand they are there to keep the game safe, (more experienced refs are usually better than newer) but they cannot prevent your child from being fouled (whether on purpose or by accident). What they can do is penalize the offender once the foul occurred.
Most of us would gladly entertain a calm discussion of what constitutes a caution and/or ejection, but rarely are spectators or coaches civil enough to have a real conversation during or after a game.
Also, please people, stop reciting false LOTG. For those of you who didn't pick up on this, it means Laws of the Game. Why? There is no such Law called obstruction (nor is there a law called hand ball), and your interpretation of IMPEDING is flawed and not within the current USSF thinking.
Please be aware that USSF and FIFA change their opinions constantly, and most fans of the game do not know what a referee is instructed to consider fouling or not, then there is the concept of a trivial foul- which is not supposed to be whistled.
I am not trying to insult any of you, just give the view of part of the game that is very misunderstood. A great source for those of you who really want to know is the Advice to Referees published by USSF- you can find it at US Soccer website.
Lastly, if you want to bash a referee for something you perceive as being a homer, think about it, does your boss give you assignments if they do not like your style? Neither do referee assignors-real life sucks doesn't it.
Next topic? How about handling? They are instructing referees to only whistle "intentional", and only in certain situations, so please stop yelling HAND BALLLLLLLL, even when a player gains an advantage it may not be intentional handling.
It's only a penalty if it gets called.
OLD-REF- great to see a new poster here. Especially one who seems to have no specific axe to grind, but rather wants to give information.
You are correct about my terminology use, I do apologize. The ball in question was not a playable distance as both players were sprinting toward it. One player was not trying to get to the ball, but trying to keep the other from getting to it. So, it COULD have been whistled in this case....but as I said it rarely, if ever, is called. But, that is of little consequence.
The real meat of my point really is much the same as your point. Parents need to get even a basic understanding of the game. It IS a contact sport, and it is unlike girls' lacrosse or hockey in that there isn't necessarily a foul just because contact was made and someone hit the ground.
I think it would be a great asset if you could stick around and continue to jump in from time to time to explain the error of our ways.
You haven't seen physical until you see Big Ten soccer. Every team has a few thugs and holding is common and rarely called. Injuries are common and the games have been getting more physical every year. That's why more coaches are trying to recruit hockey players.
11:41
Now youre bashing curling.....
SSM & Old ref- A player can play the ball without touching the ball. Right,wrong? To me, unless a player put arms and elbows to widen themselves, I don't see the foul for playing between their opponent and the ball as long as they are moving the ball.
I intended "moving with the ball".
what was score of ep vs ssm ?
See....true debate can still occur! Old Ref, thanks for your input. As one of the "village idiots", I was never disparaging SSM. Only stating facts as I saw them. I have no problem with physical play, as I know that it is part of the game, as are injuries. Further, I was not disparaging ALL refs, as I know it can be very a very difficult job, and I know that Refs can not prevent injuries. BUT, refs certainly can and do set a tone of a game. It happens in every single sport that has referees or officials. When two teams start a game, human nature of a competitive person is to push the limits of what is allowed on the field. Again, this happens at every level of every sport.
Some refs are great at setting that "line", and others....not so good. If the "line" is not set, rough play will continue to escalate, tit for tat, until until many times it becomes out of hand. Many times, out of frustration by one side or the other. It is in these times, that unfurtunately injuries happen, that may have been avoided. It is bad enough during an official game, but just plain stupid during a "friendly" scrimmage.
100-99 in OT. Who cares what the score was.
doesn't matter
but if you must know you can purchase on SSM's web site for $8.00 or since I paid for the broadcast privilege you can purchase a DVD from me for $25.00
The real score was 0-0. Not an overly "pretty" game to watch.
I don't know what you mean by "moving the ball" in your question above? If the player doesn't touch it and didn't set it in motion, how could they move the ball?
what ep team as that?
SSM South (and Larry), you're right impeding IS rarely called.
Although I obviously didn't see the actual scenario that you described, many of us look for actually impeding an opponent, not just getting in the way of the opponent.
Like Larry seemed to be getting at, unless the player is getting his arms out, or holding back the opponent it usually doesn't lead me to blow the whistle. Why? I feel every player has the same right to "play the ball" the way he/she chooses, fast, slow, far, near, UNTIL he/she begins to directly affect the opponent. If the opponent could go around the player, (even if they have to go wide), then it is the same to me as shielding the ball.
In fact, during yearly recertification training and testing, this issue has been discussed in detail. Specifically in situations where the defending player darts back and forth (left and right) in an effort to shield the ball as it goes over the goal line for a goal kick. The discussion centers around referees wanting to somehow remove this dangerous situation from games. We really do want the beautiful game to be beautiful.
The response from assessors and high level USSF trainers is that there is nothing wrong with this tactic, and the offensive player who makes contact should be whistled and in many cases cautioned for fouling from behind. Yes, most of the time the offense gets very frustrated and fouls recklessly, which should lead to a caution.
Sorry, a little long winded again, but hopefully getting the viewpoint across.
the name is tomASS Nygaard. What I say here I would say to your face, especially if you are buying the beer.
8:49 very well put!
OLDREF,
Interesting original post. I took your advice and read the info on the US Soccer website. My observations are
1. According to the website, a tactical foul such as impeding or holding the shirt requires a caution for unsporting behavior. In general, it should take place in an area that blunts a potential successful attack to be called. I have watched several hundred youth soccer matches in MN at the upper levels MN (I understand what that means regionally and nationally) and I have never seen a tactical foul called. I see the potential to make the call in nearly every match.
In the several hundred games mentioned, I have not yet seen a total of double digits in yellow cards given, and almost all I have seen were for dissent. I see play warranting a caution in most matches, often several times, according to the guidelines given on the website.
There seems to be a reluctance to issue cautions. Why?
Old Ref - have you played the game? Not trying to be caustic, honest question. When I use to be able to referee, my playing experience provided me with the foundation for understanding the environment and intent players were trying to create within the game.
Like any recipe, too much of any one ingredient can ruin the dish. Game management should not rely on the use of cards as first resort or last resort.
Anyone noticed that a number of coaches are leaving MTA? Is a brain drain going down?
No one is leaving.
Prove it.
I can't think of one coach who is leaving. I haven't even heard of one coach mentioning wanting to leave.
tomASS, so what your saying is, a foul isnt a foul?? Im a x-ref as well, you should call what you see. simple as that. know the book and rules, call what you see, not what you thought you saw. Sell the call. The ref is in charge of the field. Its yours. No ref should be on the field to understanding the intent of players. Your job, to make calls, make sure the game is played within the rules. NOT to judge the players intent, if there is a foul, there is a foul. You DONT need to be a x-player.
2/22 8:10 There seems to be a reluctance to issue cautions. Why?
IMO there are several reasons why. Many referees are under the impression that if they issue a caution they are somehow negatively changing the game. In most cases, not issuing the caution is negatively affecting the game but there is a culture and attitude out there to keep players on the field and this competes with whistling the game properly. Consider the differences in a Hispanic league v. a caucasion league (or youth games). Many more cautions and ejections occur in the Hispanic leagues because the culture surrounding their soccer understands the reasoning for cautions better (again IMO).
To agree with you further, more cautions should be issued for late tackles, and fouls from behind, but again because so few refs issue them, coaches and players perceive the correct calls to be excessive or incorrect(which leads to further reluctance).
Another difficult issue for referees, including myself, is having the courage to make the correct call and/or issue cautions/ejections. What makes it most difficult is balancing the courage with directives to keep the game flowing and not call trifling or trivial fouls...
It is a challenge, but we truly are trying, and some of us actually self assess after good games and not so good games to find the style that works best.
tomAss- I did play the game for almost 30 years (average player at best-but love the game and am very jealous of the level of training and coaching kids get now), and coached. I agree that playing experiences do help, expecially when it comes to managing players and anticipating game situations that have the potential to be MOT's (moments of truth), where a referee needs to be close and verbal to avoid nasty situations... I have found that the referees I try to emulate, find these MOTs and manage them therefore the need for cautions or ejections is reduced.
Again, I apologize for the length of the post.
OLD REF - your posts are entirely too thought out and composed in how you express your views. You are making it very hard to criticize and pick them apart.......but don't worry, there will be a few who will attempt.
8:35 AM why/how do you know?
I agree with 9:35 AM. As usual, TOMass tries to come across as the expert (I know everything, I'm always right,etc) but spits out nonsense.
OLD REF, Thanks for the education.
As a soccer novice and not having any real exposure to the game, I have had the privilege of being informed by a number of Ref's as to why they made or did not make a call (NOTE: not during the game). This is usually done during half-time. The REF'S will stop by the parents and ask if we have any questions. Thus far, this has been well received. (This has happened in MN, CA, IL and KS)
Over the last 4 years the level and quality of play has greatly improved. There have been some rule changes and noticably the game has become more physical. I think we all can accept the physicality but not the cheapness that is now apart of the game. IMO I notice that there are a few of the players playing out side of their ability and become frustrated, ie the pushing from behind and tackling with no intent on playing the ball.
All I look for is consistancy!
The biggest complaint I have always had (and this complaint was true of myself also when had a badge and was actively officiating games)- is that there is a definate difference in how the male game is played/officiated versus the female game.
Males are much more physical than females, and are covered under the same laws-- but the female game is called much more closely.
The biggest complaint I have always had (and this complaint was true of myself also when had a badge and was actively officiating games)- is that there is a definate difference in how the male game is played/officiated versus the female game.
Males are much more physical than females, and are covered under the same laws-- but the female game is called much more closely.
935 - never said anything about fouls not being fouls, please re-read.
but there is a difference between a late sloppy tackle versus one that has intent to inflict pain. One probably deserves a quiet word with the player if it is the first challenge of this nature, the other one with a yellow or even straight red even if it is the first foul of this nature. Both were fouls, but should not be treated in the same way.
or an inadvertent elbow when one goes up for a header versus a deliberate elbow in a 50/50 challenge for a header. I find referees that have played the game understand that both are fouls but may need to be handled differently in dealing with the punishment.
Handling as old referee has perfectly explained is one that also requires interpreting intent of the situation.
Interpreting intent has its own problems, including inconsistentcy.
When would an "intent to inflict pain" foul deserve a yellow versus red? Do you need to draw blood?
how high are the cleats up? Ball high or mid shin high? For me- ball high, cleats up improper technique deserving of a yellow to prevent a bad tackler from using that technique again.
Higher then ball there's intent.
Where were the eyes focused on ball or player? What was the angle of the approach before the foul? Anything happen prior that could cause retaliation?
Was there any form of additional follow-through causing the tackle to be even more careless and reckless
Thee are many reads a referee needs to make before he makes a decision about intent.
blood is not in the consideration for me.
Some players bleed easier than others ;-)
1123 did you want to rethink your comment?
i doubt he will tomASS as you really put him in his place. probably will never blog again.
hey TOMass, do the rules state that ball high, cleats up improper technique deserve a yellow or is that your interpretation of how the rules should be applied?
You must have been one helluva ref in your day!
the name is tomASS Nygaard. What I say here I would say to your face, especially if you are buying the beer.
352 - yeah I thought so to. ;-)
354 - if careless no, if reckless most likely since it can be considered serious foul play, and if delivered with excessive force that could be viewed as violent conduct by the center official then it would be a red.
All of this falls under the interpretation of the laws of the game and guidelines for referees
354 - you do know that cleats up is not the proper tackling technique correct?
1207/ Maybe it's because they're broke?????
What is the call when a player plows down a goalie several times during a game? Should the player be removed from the game?
909: I'm betting a goalie parent.
Can't answer that unless it can be viewed.
50/50 ball ? In the air / on the ground? Field player has as much right to a 50/50 ball as a goalkeeper does.
WOW, I asked a honest question regarding cautions, and OLDREF gave an honest answer without sarcasm, without questioning my motives, and without belittling me or my soccer knowledge.
Thank you! Much appreciated!
maybe so, but one of them has an offical blue moniker/ID.
Some people like to hear themselves talk, others seem to like to read what they've written......
Not a goalie parent but I was at a game where the goalie would have the ball in her hands, and three different times the opposing team plowed right into and flipped her on her back. I was surprised when no call was made as I thought that once the goalie had the ball there wasn't supposed to be contact.Interesting that a simple question can not be asked with out the stupid comment "must be a goalie parent"
Not a goalie parent but I was at a game where the goalie would have the ball in her hands, and three different times the opposing team plowed right into and flipped her on her back. I was surprised when no call was made as I thought that once the goalie had the ball there wasn't supposed to be contact.Interesting that a simple question can not be asked with out the stupid comment "must be a goalie parent"
1039 - you're reading too much into a simple statement. About as many thin-skinned individuals on here as there are referees in the state.
most questions on calls can't be answered unless all the actual facts are provided.
Using the term "plowed down a goalie" indicates a possible bias to the situation. Thus the bet that it was coming from a goalie parent.
actually a defender parent
tomAss is responding with some decent insight into the making of a call and decision process on talking to/cautioning/or sending off of players. Unfortunately his answers will be frustrating to many soccer fans, due to the complexity of decisions needed to make most MOT calls.
It really is subjective, it is really difficult and IMO being consistent should be a priority. SOme games need very tight refereeing, some can be allowed to ebb and flow-and this can include the two same teams on different days. Folks, this is the beauty of the game. You can never get bored with it.
One thing you didn't mention tomAss, but it appears that you are aware of- IMO to do a decent job a referee must get a "feel" of the game, and react accordingly.
If a GK has possession of the ball and is bumped in the normal course of play, I try to talk to the player telling them to avoid contact. If the player is reckless, either a very stern demand to stop making contact or a caution-again, the feel of the game would dictate. Multiple times, usually means you didn't react properly to begin with ...
old ref - spot on, thank you
6:16 PM where in the rules does it say so?
OLD REF, Do you call a woman's game different than men? I have not seen alot of games but it looks like more stuf is let go in the men's game.
1:57 PM I really don't want to admit it but I will. I think I call the game more tentatively in womens matches.
I think refereeing the womens games are much more difficult than mens. Why? Well, for one, men are easier to read. You can see a nasty foul coming and try to talk them out of it with things like "I'm here", "don't foul him" etc. Women are sneaky ;)(translation-harder to read), and are very patient when it comes to retaliating. I mean no disrespect, that's just my experience. If a woman is fouled hard, very often the retaliation will occur, but much later and sometimes in subsequent matches weeks or months later. If they haven't already retaliated, men get up and shove, swear, or even yell at me. Some retaliate on their next opportunity, but if play goes for more than a few minutes without an opportunity, a lot of the times they'll get back to playing.
It may look to some degree that more is let go in the mens game, because I think it is easier to apply advantage in mens matches. I tend to be a little slower on the whistle in womens matches (waiting to see how body language looks-again trying to get a "feel" for the game), but apply advantage less often especially when unsure.
Before every high level competetive game I look at a list of notes I have for myself when preparing for the match. #1 for womens games reminds me to call the game the same way as a mens game- a foul is a foul regardless of gender. It's not perfect, but still trying to improve every match...
I guess I would be happy with my performance if you said I didn't let anything go in a womens match, or for that matter in a mens.
11:49, not trying to rip on you, but very few soccer situations are specifically listed in the Laws of the Game (rule book). So many are considered to be in the discretion of the referee-but I do believe it is unanimous that cleats up is dangerous and therefore unacceptable.
In high level games most cleats up are straight red, because it can be expected that the players are capable of controlling themselves in any situation on the field. Younger games are harder to caution or eject due to the lower ability to control their bodies, but it does need to be dealt with seriously.
Old Ref - perfect response to 1149 thank you
the name is tomASS Nygaard. What I say here I would say to your face, especially if you are buying the beer.
936,429, 606 is that suppose to bother me? LOL
Good luck with that.
Which teams are traveling to Vegas this year?
Look at the website and you can probably find the answers on your own.
Why did you respond 7:25? Are you feeling insecure?
946 - yeah I'm in the fetal position, sucking my thumb , hugging my blankie and teddy
I may never recover
:-)
hook, line, and sinker......
ECNL announces expansion for 2001-12, impressive list
The ECNL is pleased to announce and welcome the addition of 12 new clubs for the 2010-2011 ECNL season: Carmel United, DeAnza Force(CA-N), FC Bucks(PA), KCFC, Michigan Hawks, Real So Cal, San Diego Surf, Scorpions(MA), Slammers FC(CA-S), Utah Avalanche, Vardar and Washington Premier.
impressive 11:13
11:25 AM -- is that you TOMass, the alter ego of tomASS? You need to climb back to your "perch"
11:32 Will the ECNL try to pool the clubs into two seperate leagues to minimize travel?
if TOMass should climb back to her/his "perch", where should tomASS go?
1:30 - where the sun doesn't shine
212 - Cleveland?
is your name tomCLEVELAND???!!!
Speaking of Cleveland, which MN teams are traveling this Spring? Where? Are they getting any out-of-state respect (i.e., decent brackets)?
What is the the real motivation????
Last years North Saint Paul Soccer Coach....you all know who...DV. I heard he asked for 5 figgure amount to coach HIGH SCHOOL. What a joke DV. I hope you read this you arrogant bas****. You want more money for what??? You had a ton of talent on NSP team last fall. It was nothing a to justify a $20,000.00 High School salary.
Stick with your Foot Tech.....thing.
5:46
I agree, more than 5 grand to me is too much....a 10 week season. I totally disagree with your analysis of the Polar talent pool. 4 players is not loaded.
You must be the same parent that was angry when he made the team do sprints after a game.
5:46
I agree, more than 5 grand to me is too much....a 10 week season. I totally disagree with your analysis of the Polar talent pool. 4 players is not loaded.
You must be the same parent that was angry when he made the team do sprints after a game.
6:42- I have pointed this out time and time again....please only hit enter once. You double post every single time. It really isn't that hard. It appears as though there is only one person who doesn't get it?
enter
enter
A ton of talent.... really?
what does a typical high school soccer coach get paid??
624, not that I'm disagreeing with you but what makes you an expert on this team and more importantly why do we care?
Can someone please let me know how the seedings for State Cup U-14 and above are determined. Is it Premier teams get ranked somehow so the top teams are not in the same pool or is there some other criteria. Appreciate your help clearing this up, I swear I have been through the entire MYSA site and can't find the answer.
You find the answer under state cup and the PDF presentation given by Tom M.
Last years performace determines if a team get a seeded or not premier teams and MRL only teams do not have to do play in games if one is needed unless there is no or only one C1 team or lower level playing team
9:33 Thanks for your amswer. It still seems odd that the seeding is only based on the past years State Cup results. It is possible to have all MRL only and Premier teams in a bracket and C1 teams only in another bracket. Obviously as you get older fewer C1 teams participate but at 14-16 several C1 teams will be in especially considering 3 Premier teams were relegated from Premier at the current U-16 age group.
there is really no way to seed things that will make everyone happy. Kind of like the "groups of death" at the world cup.
Could easily end up with a "group of death" at U14 if Rev and MTA end up in the same pool with EP. Since only one would advance to the semis, it would have an impact for the seeding for the following year too.
The Group of Death at age U14 in MN....What a post!!!
C1, C2, P6, R9, what is this, battleship?? Just let the kids play.
no matter who's in what pool, in the end, shouldn't the best team ending up winning state cup? either you beat them in your pool, the semi's, or the finals, anyway you look at you still have to beat them.
You gotta be a masochist to coach kid soccer for 5 grand.
If you are talking u14 you better not rule out cottage grove, if memory serves they beat REV in the MYSA state tournament. Who is coaching the MTA team? Is AK and MA banned from the entire complex while thier teams are playing, or only from the sidelines?
259 it's a sliding scale depending on head or assistant + time in grade. most head varsity coaches start around $5500 and move up slowly. assistants, around $3200. some of the wages for additional coaches are picked up by the booster clubs. i think i can say, none of the coaches are getting rich, and the vast majority are in it for the kids....not the parents.
ems
THANKS EM,
Good question 2:35 PM. MA should be banned from the entire complex, but unless his repimand specifically states that, I'm sure he can watch the games. Do you think MYSA officials will be watching him at state cup?
546, where are you getting $20,000??
I have pointed this out time and time again....please only hit enter once. You double post every single time. It really isn't that hard. It appears as though there is only one person who doesn't get it?
311, maybe they have OCD??
Is Kaasa out at MTA next year? He is listed as a Director for East Ridge Soccer Club. Is that where all the MTA folks are going? Looks like MA, AK, and PW are all in charge there. Does anyone know any concrete info?
Kaasa is not out at MTA, MTA and Eastridge have a player develpment partnership.
in writing?
ECNL add more team for next year, now they have almost all the top clubs in the country. From Region II
Hawks, Vardar (top two from MI) Carmel (top club from IN) are in now. Most of the top SoCal teams are in now too. This is a great thing for women's soccer. To bad the US Soccer Fed is not involved.
The USSF IS involved 5:05. They are the controlling body for all that is soccer in the United States. US Club, and the USYS are all under the USSF control.
What is the difference between US Club and USYS? Are they competitors or do they work together for a common goal? How does ODP fit into either of these organizations?
Good luck to MTA 16's, REV 16's and REV 14's in TN this weekend and to MTA 16 Silver in AZ and to any other MN team travelling this weekend.
US Club and USYS are competitors. US Club has the id2 program and USYS has the ODP program for identifying top talent for recommendation onto the national teams.
USYS is not involved with ECNL. On the boys side USSF has the Academy run by US Soccer. On the girls side ECNL is run by the clubs. ECNL awesome advantage for kids playing for MTA. State cup and regionals will not be part of ECNL team events starting in 11 or 12.
10:10- you are correct, USYS is not involved in the ECNL. But US Club is, and US Club also is tied to the USSF.
Both the USYS and US Club are administered by the USSF (Federation). If you doubt the US Club involvement in the ECNL, please follow this link:
http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1025805.html
The ECNL appears to hold their "league games" at showcase events around the country, like Vegas and Disney. The events are not exclusive to the ECNL teams. Since the MTA teams, and other top teams from MN, already participate in these showcase events, the added value seems questionable. In theory the players get better recognition by national college coaches, and a more varied consistent level of high competition.
MN currently is challenged in the MRL premier league (no champions)and Region II championships (very few champions in history). It would seem that they are already sufficiently challenged. Teams like the Stars, Inferno, and EP already compete in showcase events against national competition.
The ECNL will allow MTA teams inclusion into national showcase events without building a team resume until the club fails to produce competitive teams. It will allow MTA to avoid playing any other competition from MN in State Cup, and allow MTA to avoid the annual MN futility in the Region II championships.
Families with a promising soccer athlete that are willing to pony up the money for a schedule of national tournaments will probably benefit a little over the current system if their daughter can make the MTA Blue team and get regular playing time. That will be maybe 14 players each year. The rest will be subsidizing the club and the Blue team players
The MTA Stars did not have any players get scholarships to D-1 schools outside of Region II despite being competitive in many national showcase events and a top 25 national ranking. The Inferno has one going to FSU. Maybe the ECNL concept will alter that by playing in more national showcase events, but the college coaches find the talent fairly effectively now.
Lots of maybe to the ECNL for MN kids - nothing concrete or obvious other than higher expenses.
9:27,
Several MTA Stars players had offers from schools other than Region 2 schools but they chose to attend schools closer to home. RH for one had offers from several D1 programs outside of Region 2 geography.
I know others who had a few offers from East coast schools.
You really should know more of the facts before sticking your foot in mouth.
same with Inferno. cs had opportunities to go outside of rii but opted to go to wi.
you do make a valid point that is tough to refute.....why travel all over if 98+% of the kids are going to end up (by choice or as their only option) playing college soccer in their backyard.
....because you can't get that level of getting to pick from the best colleges in your region by only playing teams in your backyard. If you live in So. Cal or TX you have a valid argument.
so what your saying is..........the coaches from the "best colleges in your region" (which appear to be MN/WI based on where the players are going and those college's programs) wouldn't be able to evaluate player talent unless the top local teams are playing some out of region team ranked between 60-150 in the nation (gotsoccer.com reference).
No, but you have a better chance playing teams ranked 100 or higher (if you want to use rankings as basis of quality) if you leave the region.
...make that, leave the 5 state area.
Any scores from St. Cloud?
10:50 - take a deep breath - you just reinforced my point (and I'm glad to hear that RH had options, she picked a fine school in Indiana with a solid academic reputation, and had a very successful freshman season, similar to her club teammate BP).
The Stars played plenty of showcases in a national setting. Their players ended up staying in Region II, some with other national options. It seems a stretch to say participation in the ECNL will result in more national exposure than has already been available, and it is certainly doubtful that more scholarships outside Region II will come about.
I question the value of the ECNL to the players. The value to MTA as a marketing tool is more clear.
Not sure ECNL can really be called a "league", playing 9 games over a 6 month time span.
There seems to be alot of talk about the Stars players playing at "D1". If that includes places like Green Bay, North Dakota, North Dakota State, Valpo and the like, I have one question. Are those teams really D1 in skill/talent level, or in status only?
Also, it seems as though many are continuing to confuse the ECNL with DAP. ECNL teams still participate in State Cup. If the Clubs participating had to give up USYS National Championship aspirations to belong, they would not participate in ECNL. That is a no-brainer.
How do you think that Eclipse, for example, becomes the top rated girls club in the US? And that ranking brings them players, and thus money. It IS a business.
ECNL teams will no longer leave USYSA by year three. Every club who joins the ECNL know this. You are very wrong 11:02!!
i'm confused....will ecnl teams be participating in the usys national championships now or in the future?
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