With the recent blogger discussion regarding the soon to be SCVs U18 boys team forming under suspicious circumstances back in August 2006., a blogger recently provided the meeting minutes of the infamous DOC meeting that documents the first failed attempt to allow the team an exception to policy, and to form at the C1 level. Eventually, a vote did occur that allowed the exception. See "East Boys" section.
The votes, reintroduction, and re-votes, across several meeting may certainly be considered suspicious by some, as the DOC’s son was to be on the team that was eventually given the votes to bypass MYSA rules in team formation. The same policy that has denied other teams, without parent representation on MYSA’s DOC.
What transpired to allow the exception for a team with a DOC’s member’s son on the roster? Should MYSA provide public comment and explanation? Or at a minimum, repost minutes so that all may see who voted for and who voted against the decision?
The first post on this thread is a copy of the meeting minutes as provided by a blogger. It should be noted that the meeting minutes are marked as "draft." Additionally, minutes have been edited for length.
499 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 499 of 499We too are waiting for budget information from the MTA dircetor.
It's not just MTA look at your own club too. How much should a director of coaching earn? Why are you paying for coaches and directors to take vacations at the NCAA tournament? What is the board spending money on?-it looks like many clubs spend lots of money on logo shirts/jackets etc. for their board...
People, take control of your teams budgets. if you do not like what you are spending, ask for explanation, if you do not get satisfaction consider holding your payments until satisfied.
If you do not want scholarship players, and do not want directors, there are options, just not at MTA currently. Speak up, ask for change, you might be surprised.
It's not that simple, especially when dealing with elitist-types.
if you don't like it you can always leave.
like mr. jimmy said in the classic rolling stone's tune...."you can't always get what you want".
Looks like a new show may be in town! NSC in talks with USL for a team other than the Thunder. How does this affect MTA? www.insidemnsoccer.com
Minnesota Wings
MTA needs to stand on their own two feet.
If the new organization does in fact happen, they need to focus on the core business of fielding a competitive professional soccer team and making sure the paychecks don't bounce.
Bangu and Wings "stood on their own two feet" prior to their alignment with the Thunder.
My guess is if the Thunder folds the Bangu/Wings merger would continue as their youth program is quite successful and from all accounts still improving especially with their younger boys teams.
I don't have any illusions that this is the end of Bangu, Tsunami, Wings, Wingu or whatever they're called. They were here before they became MTA and their teams will still be entered at every age level at State Cup.
If the Thunder folds it will still be the same youth club but most likely with a different club name.
10:38
If Bangu and Wings were able to stand on their own two feet...
Then what was the point of "merging" in the first place?
We kind of have a mess now.
Throw in the lack of good will toward Bangu/Wings/Thunder ...
If I had a kid with an MTA jersey, I'd be a little on edge.
socmom, good thing you don't have a kid with a MTA jersey!
soccermom,
Why be on edge? My daughters team is the best in the state.
It doesn't matter to me if the badge on her jersey says Minnesota Thunder, Wings or Bangu Tsunami.
We will still be the same team no matter what the club calls itself. We have great coaching and training and get in all the right tournaments for the girls to get exposure.
Why worry about the name of the club?
2:16, good for your daughter's team. Now, if they can go outside Minnesota and do something other than be fodder for above-average teams from other states, then something will have been accomplished. Good luck.
4:48 - kind of early to already be an angry drunk?
4:48,
Winning State Cup is a wonderful accomplishment...but how would you know?
7:08, that's the best you can do? Instead of challenging the premise you choose to go that route?
7:23, my kids' teams did it once each. Got to regionals and struggled. At that time, several states' State Cup team was also their ODP team.
The attitude in Minnesota of "Gosh, we won State Cup and are so special" isn't going to cut it if the goal is to get to nationals. The number of teams from Minnesota that have made it to nationals over the years speaks for itself. Go ahead and call me all the names you want, but the facts speak for themselves.
The only way Minnesota teams will succeed at Regions and Nationals on a regular basis is to have the talent consolidated on one team. We've seen it can be done as Storlien's Tsunami Sota team made it to nationals 2 consecutive years in about 2003 or 2004.
But unfortunately most of the clubs in Minnesota fight consolidation rather than caring about Minnesota teams success at Regions or Nationals.
Until we get beyond this mentality we'll continue to just be average at the regional level.
glad to see you where able to sleep it off.
Still not willing to discuss the point, eh 9:36? 9:07 is spot on.
it's almost too easy....
What is your point 10:16? In reviewing the posts, all 2:16 commented on was that it didn't matter what name was on the jersey and that her child's team had won state cup.
You then slammed him/her and started talking about regionals.
I think I just answered my own question. Your point was to attempt to belittle someone as well as the state'e soccer establishment.
Since you seem to know what the problem is, maybe you could enlighten us all to what the solution is?
London bridge is falling down....
15/11/09 9:07 AM
-- I get it. Let's have one A and one B team at each age group, starting at U12, for the entire 7 county, Twin Cities area. Hopefully, and to be fair to other state teams, this model whould be replicated in other states, especially where soccer does poor at the regional level. This way MN's best would be playing against, for example, Madison's best,Des Moines' best or Chicago's best.How many people are willing to signup for this model? Any suggestions are welcomed.
Of course, this "super duper" club(for revenue purposes) and other CCs and SCs could continue to offer competitive and rec programs to the less gifted, less motivated and average players. Afterall, soccer is such a beatiful game that all should have the opportunity to play it.
This post was on the girls high school blog: follows in the line of thinking that club consolidation for purposes of producing beyond MN borders might be a solution.
"Both entities should be sure they hire a business manager.
The only reason Wings "merged" with Bangu/MTA is because they screwed up the finances. Both organizations offered above average soccer but were not business savy.
If.. MTA fails (financially) and it likely will, MN soccer will be given a great opportunity to provide a real soccer oppportunity to the high level player. We have 4x too many clubs in MN. MTA tried to fulfill a vision of excellence but the whole concept missed on a few key components. Bangu should focus on the north Wings (Part Deaux) in the west Dakota Rev in the south and St Croix in the east. 4 top regional clubs independent of one another in the 4 corners of the metro will help create at least 4 solid teams in each part of the Metro. St Croix and Rev will need to keep "pushing the bar" and Wings and The new Bangu will have to bring forth a big effort but the results could be great. CC's will continue to try, and often compete favorably but the top regional teams from the "big 4" will largely play regionally and in national tourneys.
I Know, it will never happen, but thats the format we all need.
9/11/09 7:29 PM "
If "Mn" wants top teams some format of having 4 "super clubs" like the above references might be the answer. We have all of these tiny little clubs that continue to struggle to have adequate numbers to properly pool like talented players. This focus on having a soccer club for every high schools athletic assoc. is a failed model. It will be really hard if not impossible to change because of the link to the high schools. School pride over rides logic.
also from the same blog:
Anonymous said...
i think it's been proven time and time again that the best way to develop top level talent is for all the best players to train together. 4 middle of the pack regional teams will accomplish nothing than to appease all the clubs that currently are playing second fiddle to MTA.
You want "solid teams". You need "outstanding teams" and IMO your idea would not and has not consistently provided that (there's always a team here or there that excels - but they are the rare exception).
9/11/09 8:14 PM
Not sure how much exposure some folks have to the highest level RII teams (not MRL 1st Division, but Premier), but IMO there isn't enough talent here in MN to put together 4 elite teams. We have a hard enough time putting together one.
9:44 The problem is we just don't know if there is, or can be "enough talent out there" because we do have just too many clubs trying to feed a high school rather than develop soccer players. I don't know if 4 big clubs is the answer but I do agree with the idea of some form of club consolidation and a grouping of players that would have otherwise been seperated. this will help create an enviornment where as you say " the best players could train together". The MTA model is close and may have had a better chance to succeed long term if they could have done a better job of creating high level teams, rather than focus on just one high level team per age group. It is a lot to ask of a 13-15 year old child and their parents to drive from Wayzata to Woodbury 3-4 times per week for training. If a "solid" opportunity with quality players could be developed in each quadrant of the Metro so the kids of those areas had a close to home high level opportunity the level of play would rise.
Really MTA is trying and should be commended for that. Wings was also on the right path before they ran out of money. I think REV is starting to develop some very good teams with a south dominated population and ST Croix has also done some good things but continually stumbles on themselves. If MTA fails because of the Pro teams challenges maybe these 4 clubs (assumuing a seperation of Bangu/Wings) could get the ball rolling.
I can't think of one soccer club in MN whose goal it to "feed a high school". Many of them wish their players didn't even play high school.
There aren't enough players in the metro area to create more than one regionally elite team let alone 3 or 4.
I'm getting the impression many folks out there even haven't seen the higher level regional teams play or have an unrealistic impression of the DD and her teams abilities.
Per 6:27's point, if MTA's model of trying to focus on one high level team per age group isn't finding all the hoped for success at the regional/national level, what makes anyone think that 3 to 4 teams of diluted talent would?
If the goals aren't to feed the high schools why are nearly all traveling CC's linked directly to a high schools youth association? Very few independent, MTA/Wings, like clubs. Diluting talent of course will not create stronger teams but how many top athletes are choosing other sports because there is not a nearby "top" soccer opportunity. If the community has a good program for another sport that the child enjoys do you think Mom and Dad are going to embrace that opportunity or would they rather drive all the way across town to train with the one top team in the metro. Remember Mom's and Dads are looking for the best opportunity they know of, if at a young age soccer wasn't that opportunity it likely won't become one at an older age. MN has as many great athletes as any other state but we also are the state of hockey. If players fall in love with hockey at an early age instead of soccer, soccer will always play second fiddle because lets face it more parents played hockey when they were young and that familiarity along with excellent local hockey programs makes it tough for soccer to compete under the current structure. We need consolidation of clubs and we need to begin to have multiple clubs developing players at very young ages.
where are all these CC's that are linked to the high schools? just because there is an Eagan Soccer Club and an Eagan High School or the same with EP, Wayzata or Maple Grove, I have yet to see any link between the two. Now does a strong team based out of a community occassionally impact the high school - yes, Woodbury girls and Apple Valley (Valley United) on the boys side, but just because the name might be Woodbury, more than half of that club team is from other cities. The best players in the metro (especially on the girls side) have historicaly consolidated at a few clubs. MTA at what is now U19, WDB at U18, MTA/EP at U17, MTA at U16, BVL/MTA at U15, etc..... and then scatter back during the fall to play high school. NO CLUB DOES ANYTHING WITH HIGH SCHO0L AS PART OF THE EQUATION. The only one that ever came close was EP when WH was there as he was the DOC for the club and was the high school coach (and we all know some of the older history about this).
Most clubs are part of athletic associations, associations in place for the high schools in their areas.
that might be true, but the correlation/connection between the two for higher level soccer is zero. Hockey - completely different story. Basketball - somewhat true except for all the AAU teams for the top kids. Even look at the Wayzata girls state high school champs. Almost all of their top playes do not play for Wayzata Soccer Club. They are at either EP or MTA.
Who said anything about a correlation between top teams and youth athletic associations sponsored by the high schools and "high" level soccer. The need for consolidation is to get a good product (soccer experience) close to home. Too many top kids are being lost to other opportunities because they do NOT have a good soccer opportunity close. By U-13 kids are either choosing to focus on another sport or be forced, in many cases, to travel great distances to play with a group of players of similarly high talent.
I do believe too that the youth associatons - linked to high school programs- are not very willing to accept mergers with surrounding associations because soccer is the one and only "free agent" sport out there. No other sport is border free like youth soccer. Sure a few "All Star" teams are border free but nothing else.
This state needs one third the number of youth traveling soccer clubs but it will never happen because of the concern that then the high schools will lose control of their feeder program (because they would have to do a dual affiliation for one sport only) and because soccer is different than any other sport with no ability to lock players in to their geographical territory.
i understand what you are saying and hoping for, but IMO you can't have both a good/high level soccer opportunity and have it also in your backyard. either you are willing to make the time/travel/$$ sacrifice or you are not. we all can't have our cake and eat it too.
also, i don't think the high schools are worried about losing their feeder programs. think about it.....if there was one third of the clubs like you propose the kids would still have to play for their respective high schools wouldn't they? community based clubs are businesses which charge fees and provide income to people. that's why they'll never go away.
it's more about hanging on to what you've got then some high school insuring a feeder program exists.
why can't we "have our cake and eat it too"?
you are making the assumption that everyone else is in complete agreement that your "cake" is also their "cake".......
if everyone is on board - then yes you should be able to have your cake and eat it too.
if not, then your actions are merely self-serving and negatively impact others.
This is all starting to sound and feel like obamacare. In theory, consolidation may be appropriate for some, but implementing it is too problematic.
community fields for community teams
super clubs : go to nsc or build your own
LC
LC - I completely agree, but I hope you also don't mind having to pay more for your soccer since the extra revenue that those clubs provide many of the communities won't exist anymore which will force them to charge you more to compensate for the shortfall.
LC- What world do you live in? If I live in a city, and my child's sports team wants to play on a field, supported solely by taxes-why can't we use it?
If your club bought the land, developed it, and receives no funds from government, I agree you can do as you want and exclude others, but if your team feels they own the fields in your city you are just plain wrong.
By the way, the fields my child's team uses do not get used by the CC, it isn't healthy enough due to board members and parents that think they need to exclude other club's ideas and fight against players mobility.
In some cities, fields that used to be used only for soccer are now having to share with lacrosse. Fees are paid by many clubs per player because of tight local budgets and little or no money for maintenance.
18/11/09 11:17 AM -- Priority should be given to community clubs/events to use their fields. The fact that you pay taxes should not by itself guarantee that your child's team should have priority or rights to use the field in your community. The team/club should at least be based in that community.
1:12 - I agree and I also believe most communities do give priorities to their local clubs. If there are open field times then it would not be in any communities best interest to just leave them empty when another entity would be willing to rent them. Wouldn't you agree?
1:12 I disagree. Just because your club name is CITYCLUB doesn't mean all the kids playing are from that city. It just means you have the name. Many "NON" Community teams have more "COMMUNITY" players than non.
You are not "ENTITLED" to the fields more than any other taxpayer!
If you were, then I hope you have no "NON" Community players, because if you do then you should not be allowed to play at those fields you believe you OWN.
So you CC's are saying that Blackhawks should not be allowed to play in St Paul, because only a club called St.Paul soccer club should have access to those fields.
Are you saying that Wings should have been excluded from Hopkins area?
Are you saying Dakota Rev should not be allowed to play in Rosemount/AV/Eagan/etc?
Think your MTA anger through, it may hurt more than MTA...
Sounds like the same thought process that has ruined the MYSA decisions for years.
We should all be sharing as many fields as necessary and working for the betterment of the players and the game, not protecting one club from another.
i don't think everyone should get too worked up. it was just IMO one misguided comment.
Misguided?? You are the ding-dong!
To the insecure MTAers -- The Blackhawks are St.Paul-based, so they certainly should have access to fields in St. Paul.
The old Wings, who primarily attracted players from the western suburbs, should not be excluded from Hopkins fields. But I think Hopkins' based teams should have priority to fields in their backyard. I bet most taxpayers in Hopkins would agree.
Similarly, Dakota Rev, which is based in the Rosemount/Eagan/Apple Valley area, should be able to play in that area. But should a Dakota Rev team, for example, have the absolute right to practice on a field in Burnsville? If Bursville teams are regularly using a field in Burnsville, should the Dakota Rev have the same right to use that field as the Burnsville teams?
I agree that communities should give first crack at their facilities to teams based there.
Our team is comprised of kids from all over the place and the suburb our club is based in has no indoor facilities, so we go wherever we can find space. I totally understand we fall lower on the priority list and are charged more, yet I understand and accept it.
so if you are based in a city but a lot of the team is not from that city they should still be on par with community teams?
you start going down a slippery slope 12:05. So if MTA was based out of EP, then they should have full and equal access to EP fields?
Boy, I thought this issue was pretty straight forward. I didn't say full and equal access. Using your example,if MTA is based in EP, they should have access to fields in EP but not necessarily priority over the CC teams in EP. Obviously,the size of district, no and type of community fields available, size of the CC team, if any, and other factors would be relevant in determining how to allocate community field use fro soccer.
Community teams should be given first access, only if no state or federal funds were use to build, improve or maintain them.
Go home RZ
19/11/09 4:34 PM
-- you are so full of it
Again, this is not an MTA issue, but some of you want it to be. MTA is not having difficulty getting fields or dome time.
Community teams should be given access based on how many players families have contributed to the funds that develop, and maintain the fields. Not just because they call themselves a certain name or not.
When you try to exclude a group, such as MTA, with your short sighted claim that they are not community based, you will not win most of those arguements. The teams start with a base of players, the parents always try to get training in a centralized location, and generally do get a community to allow them to play based on their parks and recs department being fair to taxpayers.
Get over the anger, MTA parents do not want to ruin your team or your club. Most of us want your kid to play the same game we love, we were just blessed with children who either developed earlier, had/have more God given talent, have more desire to play or work hard more often-whatever. Stick by your child, many will develop at their own pace and pass up "Elite players", none of us think it is the end all be all of clubs-it just fits once and a while. If it doesn't the smart ones leave, and their kids do great!
18/11/09 4:09 and 19/11/09 4:34 PM
Good luck and keep paying your taxes!
19/11/09 5:05 PM
You are clearly too insecure. Your statement --"we were just blessed with children who either developed earlier, had/have more God given talent, have more desire to play or work hard more often-whatever" is really a gem.
how 'bout...
4 co-operated with mysa district superclubs
1/gender/age/district n e s w 13-19
state select odp from these 4
each cc allows a field
plays premier,mrl,appropriate tourneys,friendlys
gets to regionals via mrl wild card only
mrl for superclubs only : no dilution clause
no u6-u10
u13-u19 prefer stay in district
u11-u12 must stay in district,may join academy
u6-u10 cc only
state cup for cc's only
no premier for cc's
cc1,cc2,cc3 at 13-19
lc
how 'bout...
put your dislike aside and learn to live with MTA
Are you sure? You may need to learn to live without your MTA.
MTA - Bangu - Wings, call them what you want, they aren't going anywhere.
Maybe. Whatever survives might be significantly different from what the grand poobah and his minions intended. Is MTA management prepared to deal with any damage to its organization and brand that may result from the negative developments to the Thunder?
1:21,
What negative developments? There are no financial ties between MYA and Thunder pros.
1:21 - do you honestly think that some kid might not play for MTA (or whatever they might be called in the future) because the Thunder professional team has issues? What are you basing this rationale on? I'll chalk up your comments to either wishful thinking, being naive, or somewhat delusional.
20/11/09 1:23 PM -- Get out of your MTA cave and read the news.
20/11/09 1:30 PM -- It's the uncertainty -- it affects whether parents want to join or rejoin a sinking ship, whether current MTA parents should pay all of their fees now versus later(if things clear up), whether management can steer the ship independently through the Thunder "crisis," etc. What is your rationale? Or are you wishful thinking, being naive, or somewhat delusional?
What uncertainty?
The teams will continue to exist with same coaches and same board.
The finances are not an issue as the pro team and youth club are 2 separate corporations with no shared financial issues.
The only thing that might change could be the name of the club.
The same folks who ran Wings and Bangu are still leaders on the MTA board.
I guess some folks hope they fold so they have a chance to win at State Cup but the same MTA teams will be competing in 2010 and beyond just as they did in 2009.
2:01 - might want to heed your own advice.
http://www.mnthunder.com/academy/igsbase/igstemplate.cfm?SRC=MD006&SRCN=articledetails&GnavID=28&SnavID=70&TnavID=&NewsID=117&NewsCatIDdisplay=&KeywordSearch=
I know you can't always believe everything you read, but what I've found is most folks tend to believe what they want to believe.
You are pretty cocky. You write as if MTA has been a huge success and is not vulnerable to not becoming a "superclub" or whatever the vision is. We'll see what happens in time.
here's my best Colonel Jessup from "A Few Good Men" as IMO it's appropriate:
Do you want the truth!
Do you want the truth!
You can't handle the truth!!
MTA/Bangu/Wings have been and will continue to be a success.
Look at the State Cup championships they've won. Nobody else comes close.
They're by far the states most successful club over the last 5-6 years.
last 5-6 years, i bet if you review all the old archives there has never been a club that won roughly 50% of the state cup titles over a three year period.
It's interesting that you define success as winning state cup championships. You can bang your drums all day about that, but I don't think that's what MTA is all about.
so inform us......
i think 25 grand from thunder to mta is a financial tie, why dont you board members and coaches from mta mention this
total MTA revenue for all their teams must be close to $1M (of which most goes for dome time, field time, coaches). would they miss $25K - who wouldn't. would they survive without it - most definitely. try harder......
6:13 PM You support MTA and you don't know? Shame on you.
20/11/09 5:35 PM -- Whoopy doo! Go to Chicago and brag!
or fargo, they will be really impressed
8:40 PM Is that $1 million in the bank right now?
stupid statement 10:02. take a business class. Wal-Mart does over $100B in revenue annually and might clear 10% if they are lucky when it is all said and done. REVEENUE not Profit. the MTA hate just blinds many of you out there.
6:09 - we all never heard your response........
6:13 here, sorry I don't know. Please fill me in 9:50.
state cup IS everything
all the time, money & effort
shame's on for ONLY 50 %
LC
LC,
Are there any clubs in other states winning more than 50% of the total State Cup championships?
That seems like a significant accomplishment to me.
but at what time,gas,money & opportunity cost?
& at how many times those costs!
Delaware
LC
LC - why do you care about MTA? If you don't want your child to play for them you don't have to. If others do, why should you care - it's their time, money, gas, etc...
10:16 PM -- I wasn't talking about profit, you loser. You say $1 million in revenue, and I'm questioning how much of that revenue has come in or will come in.
LC -- Are drinking again?
5:23 - why do you care?
MTA is about becoming a top youth club in the US and a member of the US Development Academy. Winning state cups is a first step but not enough by itself.
RZ or AK, please jump in and elaborate.
" Anonymous said...
i think 25 grand from thunder to mta is a financial tie, why dont you board members and coaches from mta mention this
20/11/09 8:35 PM"
And Target gives hundreds of thousands of dollars to schools around the country so schools such as Wayzata, Woodbury, EP, Edina and Stillwater are all financially tied to Target by your logic.
mta is a school now
target, schools, what?
Sooo... when will MTA advance a team to nationals after winning State Cup, and Regionals???
probably about the same time another club consistently wins more than one state cup title per year.....
Isn't MTA the only club with active coaches that have taken teams to Nationals?
One of them is currently suspended.
you know someone's just trying to stir things up when the best they can come up with is how many times a clubs been to nationals.
kind of like being a gopher football fan and ragging on the buckeyes for not having won any of their most recent rose bowl appearances.
2:55 PM -- typical asinine response from an insecure MTA supporter
Drinking too much of that kool-aid2:55 PM?
2:55 The stated goal for MTA Blue, and white teams is to win State Cup and progress thru Regionals to Nationals, to get exposure for the club and the respective players. When they fail, the fall back position for the parents and the club is "we're here for the DEVELOPMENT" How do I know? I used to drink the kool aid too.
what's the old saying..."sometimes the truth hurts". looks like 2:55 laid down some old fashioned honesty.
geat comeback 9:02 PM ?????
LC, where are you?
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