I should have known better than to use EP in my example. I forget how sensitive people are on this blog. My mistake. Please substitute Triangle FC for EP in my post. I stand by my point re the inaccuracy of gotsoccer. And no I am not from SSM or MTA.
705--pts for leagues like mrl, redbull, etc., are awarded after all league play is completed, not after individual games...obviously there are problems with gotsoccer but i would much prefer a system based on all results than on the opinion of a single representative from mn who bases rankings on state cup performance and nothing else. yes state cup is important, but it certainly does not tell the whole story.
NSR regional and national rankings are based on performance in tourneys. The only ranking the state person does is the state ranking, which nobody cares about. Also got soccer rewards frequency of play as much as quality.
NSR rankings after U15 or so are much better predictors of regional and national success than gotsoccer. I am not a fan of any ranking system but from what I have seen NSR is far superior. Below 15 any ranking system is nuts.
I agree with whoever said that EP played some good teams. For the most part, you won't find recreational type teams in any division at CASL or any other tournament. They don't let just anyone in.
Congratulations to EP U16G, Inferno, SSM U18s, and (although self-serving) the SSM U16s. All seemed to have held thier own, and shined when it counted. Kudos to all.
The heck with the rankings, just go out and win everything you play.
Check out Soccer America that just came out today, go to the youth section. Talks about how bad our country is doing by pushing win win win at all cost at the youth level. However, I find that somewhat funny as all you read about is Red Bull, ADL, Natl Championships, etc etc etc..What ever happened to the players that could juggle 500 times? Ooops, missed that one, we were out learning how to win.
10:17 Please read your own post. "just go out and win everything you play" In the same paragraph as you complain about all the "win at all cost " mentality. Also I completely disagree with your thoughts that this board is overly focused on winning only. Plenty of talk about winning as a PART of the developmental process.
Same S%&#* different day. The theme above is a familiar one (mta people take note here as this is one example you always want) EP, SSM, Inferno go out find winter tournaments or showcases. mta folks get on here and spend hours 1:denigrating the level of competition 2: minimizing the results the teams post 3:attacking and making goofy accusations (see #10's dad). The story if these teams had lost at CASL would have been derision at them for even trying. Look in the mirror guys.
754 I am not from MTA. I probably made some of the posts you are unhappy about and apologize if so. I am one of those unhappy about the competition level at CASL and I have posted as such. I cannot understand why these showcase tournaments have to separate Red Bull and National League flights from the rest of the tournament. Is your team happy about the quality of teams they played? If so they are in the minority. Just for an example Inferno is a 4 time State Cup Champion and highly ranked, yet they are stuck playing second rate teams. There is no reason for it. You travel 1000 miles you should be able to play teams that test you and help you develop your team. If these tournaments want to host national league events go ahead, just don't represent themselves as offering non-national league teams the chance to meet great competition.
8:22- Agreed, the Inferno deserved to play at a higher level at CASL and the scores showed that. One question, though, why is the Inferno playing in the MRL first division this Spring against those weak teams? If they are looking for competion, why enter a division within a league in which the top two finishers from last year opted out?
7:54, up early and hating. Your day just started man, chill out. Fact is that most people in MTA/SSM don't care about this blog. Some people get on here and post and people like you use that as ammo to tear down entire programs in the only way you know how. Keep beating the dead horse man.
Who is? I have seen criticism of gotsoccer and the CASL tournament, not of any teams. I agree with the CASL criticisms, and it is not just them, other tournaments do the same thing. As far as gotsoccer or any other ranking system who cares!?
My daughter went to CASL and had a good experience.
Benefits included 1) Being able to play a number of quality minutes in front of a number of D1 coaches from quality programs.
2) Her team was able to get some time playing together early in the year. Well before state cup or MRL or other tournaments in which the results or level of competition are really important.
3) She was inspired by watching some fantastic D1 programs (ND, UNC, UCLA and Stanford) play at a really high level.
I am not sure what everyone else is looking for in a December tournament. It seems to me that not every trip out the door needs to be about playing nationally ranked programs, especially in December.
Clearly, though, I don't know what I am talking about, and can only aspire to the wisdom of most of the bloggers on this site.
11:37...I think your post is right on the mark. CASL was used for its intent, and that was to play in front of scouts and coaches (all the same). Getting out in Dec and playing. What more should you be doing now anyway?? Do some think their players and teams should be peaking in Dec, or better yet, be peaking for everytime out when they play? Aint gonna happen.
zzzzzzzzzzz. Ok some people are unhappy that the competition in NC was not great, some people are fine with it and think it unimportant. Some people think gotsoccer rocks, some people think it is crazy. We get it. Can we move on now?
My vote is for 822. I am tired of these tournaments charging high fees, forcing use of their hotel booking system, providing poor refereeing etc and then on top of that not even grouping teams with others that will give them good competition and help them develop. Also, what did others think of the fields there? Not very good IMO. If CASL was not held in conjunction with the Final Four (thus great exposure to coaches) it would be crossed off the list of places to go.
A question for 1:31, 8:22 and others who are unhappy with the level of competition at CASL. Did your team go?
Because, if not, you really have no right to complain. You weren't interested in the product so you didn't partake. Enough said. No complaints necessary.
If you did go, it is a little like the guy who buys a Hummer and then whines about the gas mileage. Anyone who knows anything about CASL knows what they are going to get.
I think CASL supporters 11:37/11:47miss the point. It should be possible to have your daughters:
1) play a number of quality minutes in front of a number of D1 coaches from quality programs.
2) play together with her team early in the year.
3) watch some fantastic D1 programs (ND, UNC, UCLA and Stanford) play at a really high level.
AND
4) play decent competition that might require her team to play at a high level. (BTW, wouldn't decent competition draw even more coaches from even higher quality programs?)
The comment about not "peaking" in Dec is creative, but traveling out-of-state to win games 5-0 and 4-0 makes no sense (and provides little benefit), even in December.
219 are you serious? Of all the idiotic things posted on this blog you are going to take issue with complaints about a tournament someone attended? I for one appreciate all info I can get on a tournament to use in future decisions on where to travel. Please all travelers to tournaments continue to pass on your impressions of the tournament, whether good or bad.
2:36, right on. Travel just to travel is a waste of time. However the atmosphere and NCAA games surrounding this event negate the poor competition IMO. But for teams to tout "success" on the field against inferior competition is a waste of breath.
What is really hurting some of these tournaments is the impact that Red Bull/National League are having. The flight cannibalization/dilution is making it harder to really gauge all the remaining teams and to then match them up. As an example, at the U16 age group, 32 of arguably the top teams were in Red Bull (24) and the National League (8). If this didn't exist, then you could take these 32 teams combine them with the top remaining 20-30+ teams and really have some balanced flights and good competition for all.
Unfortunately, all the tournaments (and the MRL's of the world) just keep adding flights and cashing checks (and who can blame them - they are just filling a demand and they have the supply of interested teams).
243 Agree with first part of your post. Last part is a stupid statement. I don't think anyone is touting anything. If you are a representative of one of the teams that traveled trying to generate sympathy or a backlash or stir things up (likely) stop it. If not, worry about your own team.
My Hummer really DOES get poor gas mileage. If only I had a blog I could have gone to where people were telling me that, I would have saved myself the trouble.
2:57 Anonymous said... What is really hurting some of these tournaments is the impact that Red Bull/National League are having. The flight cannibalization/dilution is making it harder to really gauge all the remaining teams and to then match them up -------------------------- Not really true, The U18 girls were not in any league, but the Freedom, Eclipse, FC Bucks and all the top tier teams were all bracketed together. Bottom line, you win State Cup, then win or runner up at Regionals, then you can play with the big girls. till then, you will all be put in the correct brackets. Do you think the top teams want to play you so YOU can get better. The best will always play the best, and the rest v the rest. Youth Soccer 101
Shattuck hasnt won anything, so we have to make the best out of where we are bracketed. No complaints from me.
And for some of you complaining that since you travel to play then you should be playing against good teams..well, some MN instate teams wont even travel down the road to get a good game. Sounds alot cheaper too me?? Be back by supper, the player can still go out and see a movie later on in the nite, and you save Cha$-Ching$..How cares who wins.
There isn't one MN State Cup champion that has been accepted into Red Bull and many of the current U15, U16, & U17 Red Bull teams are ranked below MN teams. Many of them also are not state cup champs (but do come from NTexas, FL, CA, etc...). There are current Red Bull teams that lost at RII regionals to MN teams.
Maybe winning State Cup here is not as big a deal to other parts of the country. The only real way to find out is to play some of those teams. Both the ranking systems are awful at best.
Red Bull looks at clubs, not individual teams. As a result, some clubs have put their 2nd team in Red Bull because their 1st team is playing National League.
Hmmm. If you had a team playing at CASL this weekend and you feel as if it wasn't a good fit for your team, tell your club. If you didn't have a team playing at CASL this weekend, shut up. Not your business. Nuff said.
Whether it's CASL, Disney, PDA, Vegas, etc...., I believe this discussion crosses over to every tournament as these same issues will impact them all (and even MRL to some degree).
There is a bigger picture out there and the last time I checked the topic of this thread wasn't "postings for those whose DD's played at CASL last weekend".
10's dad...I agree with you. SSM hasn't won anything yet. Why should anybody drive down to Fairbault. There is good competition here in the Twin Bergs.
Im not in the loop as much as I have been about the rules, if any, about getting into RB and Nat League. Maybe it's like the ADL with the boys, the more clubs they have in one state or area the better?? I have no idea?? Just trying to get some sort of conversation started.
Hey 9:23, Im not afraid to say that Shattuck Girls havent won anything big. Whats the big deal? Does that make the players failures? Question for you then, Do you have your daughter in a competitive club that has a competitive environment that is results oriented? Wins v Loses, Who plays who and when? or, do you have your daughter in a competitive club that is focused on performance rather than results? Like ball skills, field vision, tactics, inventiveness to find success in the future of the sport? Training for the next level, what ever level that might be? I know for a fact which of the 2 my daughter is in. And Im totally ok with it. Like iv said in the past, she has won a Natl Championship, and she left that team for Shattuck. Was it the right choice, it was for her. Maybe not for others, and IM sure it would not be ok for most parents on this board where winning and getting ranked is more important than anything else.
Winning matters to SSM as much as anybody, that is the only reason to play state cup. Wins help recruiting which helps the school financially. It certainly isn't for development as you may get one good game or two at most for a team at SSM's level. That is not to say SSM does not do a great job of development also as I am sure they do. Wins also spring from development even if not the focus. I am sure there are some at SSM at the older ages who have moved on in anticipation of the next level. That is common at U18 wherever you are. But like it or not winning is the best way to attract attention to your program. I support SSM by the way, as well as MTA and some of the other progressive clubs in the state. It is all good for soccer and we now have many good teams where 5 years ago they were few and far between. Winning and development are not separate goals at older ages, they can go hand in hand.
I realize that simplification is an important rhetorical device, but too often it makes the author appear to be a simpleton.
Why does it always have to be one or the other with you people?
Can't it be that sometimes winning is important (state cup, MRL) and sometimes it is not (showcase tournaments, friendlies)?
Or that sometimes the level of competition is important (preparation for state cup, improvement in rankings) but sometimes it's not (showcase tournaments in front of coaches in December)?
Or that sometime rankings do matter (getting into top leagues or tournaments, massaging egos) and sometimes they don't(the other 99.9% of the time)?
It appears 1132 wants to simplify and also has the answers on what is important and when. Everyone has an opinion it seems. Could it be that there is more than one way to perceive things? More than one side of an argument possible to see simultaneously? Of course not, every poster on this blog has the definitive answer to everything.
So, my over-simplification was in saying things are not simple?
You'll note that I did not have answers about what was important and when, only suggestions that different things may be important to different people at different times. That's an over-simplification?
I'm guessing you are intending to be ironic, but somehow it is not translating well.
1:11- What does that statement say to you? It says to me that 10s Dad (and #10) has been down roads that most of us will never travel. It tells me that they have seen/experienced many things at the "higher" levels which we have not as a collective group. It says to me that 10s Dad has experience that should be respected.
Does he know everything? No, probably not. I'd say that he probably doesn't completely understand the laments of parents of players who are not at the same level as #10. But...I can tell you that he has never steered me wrong. I have benefitted from thier youth soccer experiences, and so could many others if they would only listen with an objective ear rather than be leery of his advice.
I will defend 10s Dad to the end of the Earth on this topic. He is not focused on only his child, he would like to give advice and assistance to anyone coming behind him down "the path".
I read the above re/10s...sounds like his DD won the national championship by herself. I guess it wouldn't sound as much about 10 and his DD if he said her team won a national championship. Guess it's all about ME.Interesting how thoughts are put on paper.
C'mon fellers. When are you going to figure out that people do not visit this site in order find out what they could be doing differently to help their kids soccer careers? And for good reason; this would be a darn poor place to find out anything of substance.
No, people visit this site to feel better about the decisions they have already made. People in CCs love to read that MTA isn't really doing anything they aren't doing, or that the people who run MTA are heartless thugs. People in MTA love to read how SSM lost a game (what? how can they lose? they recruit nationally!) or how any one particular cc hasn't won as many state cups as they have(look at the numbers! Should I post them for you?)
Mostly though, people feel better about the choices they have made by putting down others who have made a different choice.
"You chose a CC? yeah, right, sorry your daughter got cut"
"You chose MTA? Open up your wallet sucka, and have a glass of Kool Aid"
"You chose SSM? all you care about is winning and you can't even do that right"
I for one, appreciate the comments from 10's Dad even though I don't necessarily agree with all of them. He shares his thoughts and opinions without the outright potshots that most posters take these days. The postings have gotten so repetitious and polarized that I'm hesitant to comment anymore. I believe many other even minded posters/readers have been pushed away. I do enjoy the good natured banter but unfortunately that is few and far between these days. Hopefully this blog can return to the days where some thoughts and information could be exchanged and debated in a calm, rational, and good natured fashion.
SSMSC, thanks for your take, but you do not have to explain on my behalf. I shake my head at some of the things the posters post on this site.The attacks on club coachs, DOC's, ODP, heck, even hate against the Gopher women that just made it to the sweet 16. What do people want up here anyway?
Just look at 10:17s post, State Blog? LOL. Iv posted on blogs for the KC area, StL area, SoCal area, BS and then there is the MinneSOOOOta site, it seems that you have to be in some sort of elite club to be able to post their way? EH?
Regarding my 9:46 post, I still havent seen the question answered yet? Or discussed. Its just easier I guess to slam and spew hate.
9:56, As was posted earlier USSF awards Academy status to winning programs. It's as simple as that. Do you think they really care about soccer politics? Do you think there aren't politics in other states where they've already selected clubs? Have you looked at the USSF application to see what they care about? You should! What do you expect them to do? Wait until Eden Prairie or Blackhawks or whoever else might become the top clubs in the state maybe 5-10-15-20 years from now? The USSF is trying to develop players and win NOW.
10:35 is right. If and when a USSF Academy is awarded here it will be on the boys side with far and away the strongest candidates being:
SSM which has already had a boys team make it to the national championship game in their first few years and have the structure in place for continued success.
MTA which has won 11 boys State Cup titles (when combined with Wings) over the last three years. The only other club with 2 is the MU Jedi team.
Please do not take this as a knock against any other club as I know there are many, many, many other quality clubs with great coaches and player talent, but the USSF is going to pick the top winning clubs/programs.
You're right. The problem is that we are all insecure enough to need to get on here and rip the opposition on a regular basis, so this will apparently continue as long as the blogmaster enjoys the carnage.
Since I am here anyway: MTA is already an underachieving, overpoliticized cesspool of naive, over-paying parents and kids who sometimes have some ability. The only good news is that the coaches are much worse. I feel better now.
let me throw a curve then... talking girls in the RedBull and Natl League..and even MRL to a degree..Eclipse, U18, 17 and 16 teams are all very good, however, the 15s and 14s are not even in the top 3 IL teams, however, they get into MRL Premier Divisions and they get into the better brackets. Is it because of the club they are from because as a team they are not that great. That doesnt sound fair either?
10'S DAD, Good point, that is another reason that "model" we try to emulate here does not work well. For kids in those metro areas there are other oppotunities due to the scale of population. The zero sum game played here by one club leads to domination of State Cup and a relative thud regionally. First, we lack the population base compared to Chicago, St. Louis etc. Those areas can and do support a few to several elite clubs. That's why SSM is vital to the Mn soccer scene to bring true elite soccer here.
12:10, Our population in the metro is comparable to St Louis. And by the way...there has been a merger of top clubs in St Louis in effort to consolidate talent.
2:17 - not everything revolves around colleges and getting a scholarship. What if your child is only a U11-U14 (my guess that was what 1:39 was looking for). I agree these are not huge regional tournaments, but at the earlier ages the better IA, NE, WI and a few IL teams do make the trek over.
Apparently 2:17 needs to bash the tournaments. The question was: What IYHO are the 3 best tournaments in MN where teams outside MN are invited? If there are better ones in MN then simply name them IYHO. What are the tournaments in MN that the college coaches go to?
This is 11:06 and that was a tongue-in-cheek response. That said, it's very funny to me to see the entry right after mine - "Hater!" Now that I think about it, I am a hater. My kid didn't get cut, and I still think you're a bunch of pretenders over there at MTA.
Good, be a hater. Just don't whine when their team playing up a year runs you over and you get left in the dust. And I think the entry after yours was tongue and cheek too. To quote a little Stripes, "lighten up Francis".
This tournament talk is good. I agree NSC and USA Cup weekend are the two best followed by the USA Cup week and NSC fall. This brings us back to the discussion about some of the challenges Top MN teams face . Gotsoccer ranks the above and only one other Tournament in MN.(Dakota Rev-It-Up) No other tournament recieved a ranking largely because few if any ranked teams play in these tournaments. Is that because the teams aren't good enough to be ranked? NO, It is because Got soccer recognizes so few tournaments in MN. TOurnament directors get your club tournament recognized by Got soccer so all mn teams start eaning points which will (by the nature of their goofy points system) raise the tournament ranking for the best MN tournaments which should help attract more out of state teams to attend. Also if your team is at all concerned with their gotsoccer ranking play in the tournaments that are recognized by gotsoccer so at least they are getting the best MN teams to attend and hence get higher ratings for their tournaments.
This will probably get ripped but the winter MTA showcase in St. Cloud and SSM showcase in Faribault both draw a sprinkling of D1 and many D2 and D3 coaches from the midwest. Good tournaments for college exposure for U16 and U17 teams.
I think that a costs and field quality have contributed to the decline in the quality of tournaments in mn as well.
1. usa cup registration fees are absurd. the fees are higher than any youth tournament i have ever seen..no one is going to pay that kind of money for terrible competition when there are much better options available to them.
2. inadequate field size and quality...no one is going to spend money to come to mn if they know their kids will be playing on tiny fields that are poorly maintained. nsc powers that be could have focused on quality of fields rather than quantity over the years. Their preference to squeeze as many fields as possible on to a plot of land has contributed to the down fall of our local options in terms of quality tournaments more so than anything else in my opinion. that being said, you can't really blame them for taking the quantity route as it has certainly brought 10s of millions of dollars into the local economy over the years.
I think that a costs and field quality have contributed to the decline in the quality of tournaments in mn as well.
1. usa cup registration fees are absurd. the fees are higher than any youth tournament i have ever seen..no one is going to pay that kind of money for terrible competition when there are much better options available to them.
2. inadequate field size and quality...no one is going to spend money to come to mn if they know their kids will be playing on tiny fields that are poorly maintained. nsc powers that be could have focused on quality of fields rather than quantity over the years. Their preference to squeeze as many fields as possible on to a plot of land has contributed to the down fall of our local options in terms of quality tournaments more so than anything else in my opinion. that being said, you can't really blame them for taking the quantity route as it has certainly brought 10s of millions of dollars into the local economy over the years.
The reason most people don't like the USA Cup fees around here is that they just go up there, play their games and leave. Most people have no idea the amount of other stuff made available to teams and rarely take advantage of them. If you're just going for the games, yeah, it's a waste. If you're going for the experience, it takes on a different light. JMOO.
As far as the fields, the size still sucks, but I know for a fact that they are going to rebuild as many as possible for this year's Cup since it's the 25th anniversary. And they want to expand the Puma V-elite bracket which every game I watched last summer was very high quality.
Puma V-elite bracket was way overrated, they were good teams, but were not nearly the teams that they made them out to be, and they totally screwed a MN team out of it which I dont like at all, anytime a team goes through the a bracket of a tournament and scores 30+ goals and gives up zero they are in the wrong bracket, bad move by USA cup
Which team got screwed? Your point is valid, but what I heard about the group is that Puma invited half of the teams from clubs that they sponsor/sell uniforms to and USA Cup invited the rest. They wanted a couple int'l teams and a local team and took teams from Norway, Canada & Bermuda and then Yonga's team from what I heard because they had won the year before. It was only the first year they did it, so if your kid was on the screwed team, sorry to hear that, but I doubt any of the elite tournaments started out perfectly. Personally, I'm just glad it seems like they're making an honest effort to raise the competitive level of teams that come to the cup.
Twins could win the World Series, Vikings could win the Super Bowl, Gophers could be national champions, etc... and I can guarantee you there would be still be people complaining on this blog... I guess it is easier to find fault and criticize than to give applaud effort.
What club based tournaments traditionally have the best attendance and run a quality program? Lets get a list of the better ones and then encourage those club tournament directors to contact gotsoccer (To get the tournament identified) in an effort to bolster our MN teams Gotsoccer points totals. Once we get the list compiled encourage your clubs better teams to attend some of those tournaments.
I personally dislike the format Gotsoccer uses but also agree with the above posters that it is crazy to fight it since so many national tourneys are putting such a significant value on this system.
As for club based tournaments in the u9-u14 group, our team attends Burnsville Fire every year and we find it to be competitive and well run. It is weaker above those ages however. Last year they committed to full size fields and regulation length games which added to our value (to address the point regarding small fields and shortened games in Blaine). The REV tournament is a good early season one although it often has crappy weather. In the west metro in our home base, EP used to be a great tournament but has fallen off in the past few years.
With regard to any ranking systems, I think all the teams have to take a really hard look in the mirror (first by taking off the rose colored glasses) and ask themselves if they are truly a regional team? I'm reading posts about obtaining gotsoccer points (which IMO is an extremely flawed ranking system - it seems to often reward quantity over quality) to gain entrance into top regional tournaments, but let's be honest, how many teams in MN are actually of that quality at each age group? 2 maybe 3?
At each age group, our State Cup winners (which is usually a pretty good barometer of the best team in the state at each respective age group) might have moderate success (rarely do we have a regional semi-finalist) but after that oftentimes the strength of the teams drops off. If the top teams are middle of the pack for the region, what would lead anyone to believe that teams #3, #4, #5, etc... are going to have any success?
9:49 Your point is well taken, but that doesn't change the fact that we need to get the MN teams "in the game" with the gotsoccer system. We are currently on the sidelines as most of our tournaments are not recognized while the same quality tournament in another state is recognized and giving the teams playing in said tournament points. The ranking of the tournament is largely determined by the ranking of the teams playing. We need to start accumulating points for our teams now or it COULD be a bigger issue for our MN teams moving forward. I have heard of MN teams being excluded from tournaments or being accepted to a lower flight because of this gotsoccer system. I encourage the local tournaments to get "recognized" too . If for no other reason than to level the field.
No doubt 9:49's points are correct about the top MN teams being average on a regional level. So far this is correct, but hopefully with all of the winter training improvements that were being discussed on this blog earlier better results lie ahead.
I would like to see MTA take advantage of their increasing visibility across the region and their Nike club status to host a true tournament (not an invite).
They have the name recognition to attract some of the better clubs across the region and likely the pull with gotsoccer to have their tournament listed.
They don't have the fields, it is true. This would require an honest attempt to act together with some of the communities in the area that do have fields.
Don't even think about NSC, though. Those fields are just too small to host a high level event.
There is a lot of talk from MTA about their interest in improving all of MN soccer, and I think this is a true opportunity to show it isn't just words.
Wings had a tournament. If MTA wants one they could just fill in that spot that Wings already had on the calendar. The filing date for tourneys is past however for this year so if they didn't apply they are likely out of luck (to be MYSA sanctioned).
949, I agree and would argue that there is only one team at most at each age group that would have success at each age group. Actually there are some age groups where the best teams in MN couldn't and haven't competed in the past. Unless you have gone out and played other big clubs from the region you have no idea what that level looks like. Being the Top team in MN doesn't always correspond to being able to compete on a regional level.
Best local tournaments I have seen other than Schwanns and NSC are 1. Dakota Rev 2. St Croix 3. Burnsville
All three had good levels of play at the C1 level. Not as much of the C2/C1 blending or the multiple age group blending.
Dakota Rev and St Croix both have nice facilities/fields and a good tournament feel as most games are not at a stand alone location.
Weather can be an issue with all tournaments but especially the early season Dakota Rev tournament.
I think the key factor in attending a Club tournament is getting to play like level teams. These three seemed to be the best in the age classes my kids play in. What other tournaments meet the same criteria?
What U-12 teams are playing 13 this year? anyone know? MTA is for sure. BTW if MTA plays 13 Prior lake has a real good U-12 girls team. Maybe they are playing U-13 also?
please no Rev vs MTA U-13 talk. Rev fans let this one go they are baiting you in to a meaningless discussion. Anyone following that age group knows these are the two best teams right now. play 'em 10 times and it would likely be 5-5.
will someone please set up a scrimmage between Rev 13's and MTA 13's where it is required all players from both teams play and each coach commits to trying to win at all costs. Let each team agree on the Ref's and play it at the most neutral site possible. Lets put this debate to bed.
State Cup is too far away to wait and listen to all of this banter.
If it isn't SSM and MTA. It is Rev 13's and MTA 13's. The prior discussion was moving along so well. (the tournament talk)
MTA working with CCs to host a tournament. Maybe. More likely they will use their new foot hold in Woodbury with the new HS (Abboud and Walczak just announced as girls and boys coaches respectively) and the 14+ full sized fields surrounding the school and Bielenberg to run something. How many fields do we need to bid for the region championships?
As far as local tournaments go I don't like tournaments that spread teams out over 10 locations (like Burnsville and REV). No real tournament feel if you're on an outlaying site. St Croix is a good one, so is the one Woodbury runs - both at one location with good fields. NSC is still king though regardless of what people say about field size.
Also MYSA sanctioning is not a need with US Club Soccer.
Agreed about REV v MTA u13 parents. Shut up and talk smack after state cup.
MTW (Formerly Wings) is still hosting the same tournament they always have, just with new name (MN Thunder West Invitational probably). Wings College Showcase started last summer will run as MTA or MTW College Showcase.
I think it's great that we have two "spirited" teams at U-13. But agree it is probably better to let it play out on the field. Mn soccer is all the better for having teams to rally around, especially quality teams like these who have solid coaching and a year around commitment to training. Hopefully one will push the other and vise versa so whoever wins State Cup(I know it is presuming one of the two win) may actually have success regionally. Bangu's current 15's had success beyond MN and I bet one of these two can also.
I agree about the tournament single site idea over the gigantic ones spread over a dozen smaller sites. To me one that is spread out is more like league games on the weekend that a tournament experience. The excitement of lots of people is memorable for the kids. Not knocking the spread out events as they may be very well run. But if our team has a choice we pick the more tournamenty ones.
Ok, Who's tournaments give the best "tournamenty" experiences. Most outside the NSC are seperated to some degree but of the ones not at only one location several tournaments "pod" the teams at a few locations and these seem to me to give that "tournamenty" feel. Most Important is who draws the top teams? If we plan to get our teams (MN teams) gotsoccer recognition the most important thing is the quality of competition.
The first step would be to put club affiliation aside and pick one tournament in which the best teams at each age group would be willing to participate. Given that there are usually two strong teams at each age group in MN, I think it would be smart to have a "super bracket" or some equivalent at u14s, 16s, and 19s. If you pool together the best 13s and 14s, the best 15 and 16s, and the best 17s-19s, you suddenly have a pretty competitive event.
I believe that this would work out pretty well if it was a part of NSC Cup, or held at Woodbury or St. Croix over memorial day weekend. This would be an excellent opportunity for state cup champs to prepare for regionals, and a great opportunity for the 19s to prepare for their state cup games the following weekend. Furthermore, there would be very few mrl league games that weekend, which could entice some midwest teams to come up here for a low cost relatively competitive event.
If MTA and the other strong clubs at each age group could put their differences aside and work with each other to put something like this together it would be great for mn soccer. Obviously, MTA would have to be on board as they are the most reputable MN club nationally and have the most state cup champs. If teams from around the midwest knew with certainty that all mn state cup champs and finalists would be involved I would guess that many of the strong teams would want to participate. I would further wager that if reputable MN directors/coaches contacted their buddies working for other strong clubs in the region and informed them of the objective to put on a cheap but competitive evnent that many would bite.
Obviously the whole working together thing probably won't happen, but I hope both sides can combine their efforts for the benefit of the MN soccer community at some point in the future.
6:40, Woodbury is all at one site and has the potential to grow as their site expanded and doubled size thanks to the new HS. St Croix also has a good single site venue with good fields. Both were mentioned previously here. EP at Miller Park is a good one as well but I think they have satellite sites.
Best teams and best competition? NSC events for sure. I think they will all be gotsoccer soon.
11:41 - 9:24 here, I have and that is why I asked the question.
The belief that trying to get MN tournaments to receive gotsoccer points so those teams can gain acceptance into tournaments is a flawed concept. Why would the better regional teams want to come to MN when they can enter better tournaments in their backyard.
You want to get into better tournaments? Go to quality regional tournaments and here's a concept....win some games. If you can't win at those tournaments then there is little chance of being accepted (and less chance of winning) at the higher level tournaments.
12:21 you are completely missing the point. If we are having similar level tournaments in MN that other states are having and our tournaments are Not recognized by Gotsoccer when the other states tournaments are recognized, then our teams are not being measured comparably with the teams from other states. This will noot make our teams any better or worse, it will simply measure out teams consistant with how other teams across the country are measured.
Your point about going to other regional tournaments is well taken. The problem is most of those tournaments are using Gotsoccer rankings as a significant indicator of a teams play level and some MN teams have had issues getting in to tournaments or being placed in the appropriate flight because we only have about 4 MN tournaments that are even recognized by Gotsoccer. If all MN tourneys get affiliated with Gotsoccer then all teams will be measured consistantly across tha region and state. Agree the system is flawed, but feel we (MN) should get in the game.
12:39, I get your point. I'm hoping this might bring some clarity to this discussion. Name the teams and tournaments where this has happened. Give me some good examples and will gladly state your point is right. I just do not think there are that many teams in MN that your thought process would apply to.
Why fight it? This is not worth arguing about. No downside to just making gotsoccer aware of your tournament. No fees involved, nothing bad, only potentially good.
Gotsoccer ratings are definately one of the distinguishing criteria more and more tournaments are considering. If your team hasn't been affected yet great, but it looks like it will be an issue in the future if our MN tournaments don't get in their system.
Good series on scholarships running in Trib. Just what we need. More big dumb blockheads from out of state getting full rides to make the football team a doormat. I suggest the U drop out of the B10 and join the MIAC.Use that scholsrship money for Minn kids playing in other sports.
One thing for sure...The MTA 13 parents would beat the REV 13 parents in a scrimmage. Mta has several ex college players while the REV has nothing but talkers. Settle it on the field. Mixed teams M/F no limit on gender. The best team wins. Quit talkin and get it on.
I have a daughter on one of the mentioned teams (DR/MTA U13). I request that all of the immature bloggers leave these two teams alone and not drag these kids into your mentally challenged world. I realize this will likely fall on deaf ears but perhaps some of you with an axe to grind will wake up and grow up.
8:55-wow, it's in the genes. I'm immediately pulling my two kids out of soccer because I never played college soccer. How could my thirteen year old ever make the grade playing against an MTA kid whose mommie or daddy played at Aadolphus or, for that matter, probably Carleton. Wow, how impressive. Hey idiot, spend more time teaching your kid humility as she will need it having been your offspring.
Agreed the MTA parents have the stars, but I think their depth of bench is a question. Also controlling prima donna mentality can be an issue for that club. The big question will of course be uniforms. Will the former MTA college stars want to don their old magic numbers that they wore in D1 ball or will they take the numbers that their dds wear? I think that this could cause in-fighting on the MTA parent squad. This could give the Rev a decisive physiological advantage since the Rev parents will just choose to wear something green and be more of a cohesive unit.
I know a few of the MTA Dads and Moms. The Moms would kick butt on their respective spouces. I'm pretty sure all the athletic ability came from the mother's Genes and the girls should be very thankful for that!! The MTA dads should handle cheerleading duty also.
Should we call this State Cup or more fitting to call it Estate Cup? Which team is doing more training? Are either going to Senior Surf Cup or Disney for the Aged?
3:05 are you a psychoanalyst? You just nailed 90% of the vicariously living nuts on this thread. My DD is great, why I must be great to have procreated her. Sadly enough, 90% of those nuts on any given sideline never played at the level in any sport which their DD is currently playing at, but you wouldn't know it reading this thread.
Actually I think 90% is low, but the big question that I keep wondering is what about the DD's DD. Will they as parents continue to push at this level or will they say enough let's just do in-house soccer. I vote for the former.
8:40 - thanks for the listing. It would be nice for those offering their opinions what they are basing their rankings off of (having seen the teams, head-to-head, common oponents, roster changes, gut, etc...).
Also, as 8:14 pointed out, SSM is a U18 team. Here's my listing and it is based off of prior year accomplisments and team outlook moving into 2009. U13 - MTA (they won it last year as U12's hard to pick someone else until they beat them) U14 - MTA (runner ups last year as U13's so hard to pick someone else until they beat them) U15 - MTA Blue (2 time defending state cup champs) but MTA White is a very close 2nd U16 - MTA Blue (3 time defending state cup champs so until they are beaten...) but EP is neck-and-neck and not sure about SSM U17 - WDB (4 time defending state cup champs) U18 - MTA Blue (until someone beats them they have to still be the favorites). SSM on paper looks just as good, but until they play the game..... U19 - MTA
Do I think MTA will win 6 out of the 7 state cup finals - no, as so many things can change from year to year especially in how coaches can develop their players, how players can improve on their own, a break here-a break there, injuries, etc......
All I have to go off of is a historical track record.
MTA GU15 White is probably the 6th best team in the state at their age group. They won't be giving the Magic a run for their money. There are 2 teams which don't get any mention here which will be much more competitive with the Magic this year. You can figure out who they are amongst yourselves.
Actually I can't, who are they and why do you think these two teams will be much more competitive with the Magic this year. This is a sincere question and just looking for your opinion. Is it player movement? Coaching? etc....
12:59 It has to be one of these: NSSA, Wayzata, EDP, from the 2008 premier league or the newcomers Dakota Rev or Tonka? (I think Rev and Tonka are Premier, correct?) If not these then who?
It is nice to see dialogue about teams without it being partisan. From a strictly outsiders view (got no dog in this hunt), just curious why the posters would come to these conclusions (completely sincere). Has the U15 Blue lost some of its "magic" - and if so why, have these teams gotten better - and if so, how, etc....
Just looking for some constructive dialogue that isn't based on MTA is great or their teams suck because they are MTA.
I too have "no dog in this hunt" but can offer some general observations. I doubt Blue has lost it's Magic. As the teams get "older" the best teams/coaches tend to attract other good players who strengthen that team. Winter training has become more universal amongst the top teams which evens things out. At younger ages a few superstars on a team can affect a teams success more easily than at the older ages when things seem to even out due to training,maturity etc. Blue has been a target for the others to achieve too . When you have a target to aim at it is easier to hit than for Blue who already sits on top.
Those are just a few general thoughts that may be "inplay"
On paper there is one dominant team. That doesn't win games though many here think otherwise. IMO, of the above non-MTA teams only NSSA has any legit scoring threat against MTA's defenders, 4 of whom were just selected to ODP national camp. Wayzata's goalscorer moved to MTA. I think White will be the next best team.
Dkt Rev 13's will win in a close championship game. They are a dominant team in the age group. The only edge MTA could have is their more aggressive early season schedule of tournaments.
Good guesses out there. Remember, the Magic doesn't have MA for head coach anymore, although MC "co coached" with MA last year, the chemistry won't be the same. And even though that some more of the players were selected to ODP national camp many of the other teams girls have gotten bigger faster and more soccer savvy also. This age group may end up being the most fun to watch this year and end up putting out some of the best teams and talent across the board that MN hasn't since the Bangu, St.Croix ,and Woodbury teams of a few years ago.
The 15s will be the least competitive age group to watch besides the 17s. U14s is anyones to take. 13s will be dull until the Rev MTA match up, but MTA is clearly 3 goals better IMO with absolutely no comparison between the coaching or overall talent each team has assembled. Watch out for an athletic Edina group though.
Since we don't know the draw some possibilities =)
U13 REV vs MTA (Edina?)
U14 Burnsville vs MTA (Woodbuty, Tonka)
U15 MTA BLUE VS MTA White, REV or NSSA? (many good teams in this age group but not quite close to Blue yet even if the White team gave them a good run last year)
U16 MTA Blue vs.EP, SSM isn't in the same category as the top 2 teams in this age group.
U17 WDB vs. SCV
U18 MTA vs. SSM
U19 Its over, maybe it should be an "open class" and all the overbearing MTA Moms can play each other. Same on the boys side except most of the dads don't know how the game works.
4:45 - depends on what everyone is trying to accomplish as well as the mind set of the teams. Oftentimes scrimmages mean a lot more to the "underdog" or teams looking for respect. IMO the motivational factor isn't always there when a more established team plays an upstart in a scrimmage. In a true game when something might be on the line (i.e. - State Cup) the intensity level seems to get notched up a bit and the "favorite" usually will prevail. I've seen where one team "wins" the scrimmage only to be beaten soundly once game time rolls around.
U13-14 Don't care. U15 MTA Blue was fortunate to escape MTA White last year. Will be close again. Good age group. U16 MTA Blue and EP will battle again. U17 Inferno wins again, possible challenge from PSA. U18 MTA Blue will battle SSM. Strongest age group in the state with good teams at MTA West and WDB also. U19 Doesn't matter anymore.
3:04 FYI Dakota Rev doesn't have a U-14 C1 Girls team . Unless the C2 coach is amazing :) I think it is safe to say DR will not be a factor in this age group.
Finals 13 Dak Rev MTA 14 Woodbury MTA 15 MTA blue NSSA 16 EP MTA 17 Inferno SCV 18 SSM MTA That's the 1-2 finish in the finals too. The MTA stranglehold will be diminished some.
627 I hope you are right but I doubt it. MTA is likely to win a minimum of 4 State Cups from 13-19 and possibly 6. When their monopoly is broken I hope it is because other teams have become better and not because MTA has backslid.
I certainly did not mean that stranglehold comment as a slam, I think enough other teams/clubs are getting strong enough and doing the similar early season competition that will lead to some different State Cup champs. If not 2009, it will be 2010. MTA does have less allure to all the top players than they once did.
2,440 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1601 – 1800 of 2440 Newer› Newest»I should have known better than to use EP in my example. I forget how sensitive people are on this blog. My mistake. Please substitute Triangle FC for EP in my post. I stand by my point re the inaccuracy of gotsoccer. And no I am not from SSM or MTA.
705
705--pts for leagues like mrl, redbull, etc., are awarded after all league play is completed, not after individual games...obviously there are problems with gotsoccer but i would much prefer a system based on all results than on the opinion of a single representative from mn who bases rankings on state cup performance and nothing else. yes state cup is important, but it certainly does not tell the whole story.
NSR regional and national rankings are based on performance in tourneys. The only ranking the state person does is the state ranking, which nobody cares about. Also got soccer rewards frequency of play as much as quality.
NSR rankings after U15 or so are much better predictors of regional and national success than gotsoccer. I am not a fan of any ranking system but from what I have seen NSR is far superior. Below 15 any ranking system is nuts.
Agree got.soccer ranking far more information and feedback about team current level of play, not just prior year state cup results.
813 you are wrong. All flights are awarded points, Red Bull or not.
ep u16's - the rodney dangerfields of mn youth soccer.....
Will any of our kids boy or girl crack the starting lineup of any D1 team in 2009?
Must be a couple from 2008?
I agree with whoever said that EP played some good teams. For the most part, you won't find recreational type teams in any division at CASL or any other tournament. They don't let just anyone in.
Congratulations to EP U16G, Inferno, SSM U18s, and (although self-serving) the SSM U16s. All seemed to have held thier own, and shined when it counted. Kudos to all.
SSMSouthCampus
8:51,
I agree! hahaha
The heck with the rankings, just go out and win everything you play.
Check out Soccer America that just came out today, go to the youth section. Talks about how bad our country is doing by pushing win win win at all cost at the youth level. However, I find that somewhat funny as all you read about is Red Bull, ADL, Natl Championships, etc etc etc..What ever happened to the players that could juggle 500 times? Ooops, missed that one, we were out learning how to win.
10:17 Please read your own post. "just go out and win everything you play" In the same paragraph as you complain about all the "win at all cost " mentality.
Also I completely disagree with your thoughts that this board is overly focused on winning only. Plenty of talk about winning as a PART of the developmental process.
Same S%&#* different day. The theme above is a familiar one (mta people take note here as this is one example you always want) EP, SSM, Inferno go out find winter tournaments or showcases. mta folks get on here and spend hours
1:denigrating the level of competition 2: minimizing the results the teams post 3:attacking and making goofy accusations (see #10's dad). The story if these teams had lost at CASL would have been derision at them for even trying. Look in the mirror guys.
7:54 - I must have missed the part where any of this was linked to MTA (in fact 7:05 stated no affiliation with either MTA or SSM).
So I guess you are right as your post is pretty much "Same S%&#* different day"......
8:12, Where do you suppose they are from? Maplebrook, North Metro? Get your head out of the sand jealousy dripped from all those posts.
754 I am not from MTA. I probably made some of the posts you are unhappy about and apologize if so. I am one of those unhappy about the competition level at CASL and I have posted as such. I cannot understand why these showcase tournaments have to separate Red Bull and National League flights from the rest of the tournament. Is your team happy about the quality of teams they played? If so they are in the minority. Just for an example Inferno is a 4 time State Cup Champion and highly ranked, yet they are stuck playing second rate teams. There is no reason for it. You travel 1000 miles you should be able to play teams that test you and help you develop your team. If these tournaments want to host national league events go ahead, just don't represent themselves as offering non-national league teams the chance to meet great competition.
8:16, 8:12 here, apology accepted.
8:22- Agreed, the Inferno deserved to play at a higher level at CASL and the scores showed that. One question, though, why is the Inferno playing in the MRL first division this Spring against those weak teams? If they are looking for competion, why enter a division within a league in which the top two finishers from last year opted out?
They probably want to play Premier next year. First Division is a necessary first step to that goal.
7:54, up early and hating. Your day just started man, chill out. Fact is that most people in MTA/SSM don't care about this blog. Some people get on here and post and people like you use that as ammo to tear down entire programs in the only way you know how. Keep beating the dead horse man.
7:54 isn't the one on here ripping into SSM and Eden Prairie.
Who is? I have seen criticism of gotsoccer and the CASL tournament, not of any teams. I agree with the CASL criticisms, and it is not just them, other tournaments do the same thing. As far as gotsoccer or any other ranking system who cares!?
My daughter went to CASL and had a good experience.
Benefits included
1) Being able to play a number of quality minutes in front of a number of D1 coaches from quality programs.
2) Her team was able to get some time playing together early in the year. Well before state cup or MRL or other tournaments in which the results or level of competition are really important.
3) She was inspired by watching some fantastic D1 programs (ND, UNC, UCLA and Stanford) play at a really high level.
I am not sure what everyone else is looking for in a December tournament. It seems to me that not every trip out the door needs to be about playing nationally ranked programs, especially in December.
Clearly, though, I don't know what I am talking about, and can only aspire to the wisdom of most of the bloggers on this site.
11:37...I think your post is right on the mark. CASL was used for its intent, and that was to play in front of scouts and coaches (all the same). Getting out in Dec and playing. What more should you be doing now anyway?? Do some think their players and teams
should be peaking in Dec, or better yet, be peaking for everytime out when they play? Aint gonna happen.
10s Dad
zzzzzzzzzzz. Ok some people are unhappy that the competition in NC was not great, some people are fine with it and think it unimportant. Some people think gotsoccer rocks, some people think it is crazy. We get it. Can we move on now?
The more things change the more they stay the same.The only thing that's really changing is "time".
11:37 Best post on here in 2 weeks!
My vote is for 822. I am tired of these tournaments charging high fees, forcing use of their hotel booking system, providing poor refereeing etc and then on top of that not even grouping teams with others that will give them good competition and help them develop. Also, what did others think of the fields there? Not very good IMO. If CASL was not held in conjunction with the Final Four (thus great exposure to coaches) it would be crossed off the list of places to go.
A question for 1:31, 8:22 and others who are unhappy with the level of competition at CASL. Did your team go?
Because, if not, you really have no right to complain. You weren't interested in the product so you didn't partake. Enough said. No complaints necessary.
If you did go, it is a little like the guy who buys a Hummer and then whines about the gas mileage. Anyone who knows anything about CASL knows what they are going to get.
I think CASL supporters 11:37/11:47miss the point. It should be possible to have your daughters:
1) play a number of quality minutes in front of a number of D1 coaches from quality programs.
2) play together with her team early in the year.
3) watch some fantastic D1 programs (ND, UNC, UCLA and Stanford) play at a really high level.
AND
4) play decent competition that might require her team to play at a high level. (BTW, wouldn't decent competition draw even more coaches from even higher quality programs?)
The comment about not "peaking" in Dec is creative, but traveling out-of-state to win games 5-0 and 4-0 makes no sense (and provides little benefit), even in December.
219 are you serious? Of all the idiotic things posted on this blog you are going to take issue with complaints about a tournament someone attended? I for one appreciate all info I can get on a tournament to use in future decisions on where to travel. Please all travelers to tournaments continue to pass on your impressions of the tournament, whether good or bad.
2:36, right on. Travel just to travel is a waste of time. However the atmosphere and NCAA games surrounding this event negate the poor competition IMO. But for teams to tout "success" on the field against inferior competition is a waste of breath.
What is really hurting some of these tournaments is the impact that Red Bull/National League are having. The flight cannibalization/dilution is making it harder to really gauge all the remaining teams and to then match them up. As an example, at the U16 age group, 32 of arguably the top teams were in Red Bull (24) and the National League (8). If this didn't exist, then you could take these 32 teams combine them with the top remaining 20-30+ teams and really have some balanced flights and good competition for all.
Unfortunately, all the tournaments (and the MRL's of the world) just keep adding flights and cashing checks (and who can blame them - they are just filling a demand and they have the supply of interested teams).
243 Agree with first part of your post. Last part is a stupid statement. I don't think anyone is touting anything. If you are a representative of one of the teams that traveled trying to generate sympathy or a backlash or stir things up (likely) stop it. If not, worry about your own team.
My Hummer really DOES get poor gas mileage. If only I had a blog I could have gone to where people were telling me that, I would have saved myself the trouble.
I am an idiot.
2:57
Anonymous said...
What is really hurting some of these tournaments is the impact that Red Bull/National League are having. The flight cannibalization/dilution is making it harder to really gauge all the remaining teams and to then match them up
--------------------------
Not really true, The U18 girls were not in any league, but the Freedom, Eclipse, FC Bucks and all the top tier teams were all bracketed together. Bottom line, you win State Cup, then win or runner up at Regionals, then you can play with the big girls. till then, you will all be put in the correct brackets. Do you think the top teams want to play you so YOU can get better. The best will always play the best, and the rest v the rest. Youth Soccer 101
Shattuck hasnt won anything, so we have to make the best out of where we are bracketed. No complaints from me.
And for some of you complaining that since you travel to play then you should be playing against good teams..well, some MN instate teams wont even travel down the road to get a good game. Sounds alot cheaper too me?? Be back by supper, the player can still go out and see a movie later on in the nite, and you save Cha$-Ching$..How cares who wins.
10s Dad
There isn't one MN State Cup champion that has been accepted into Red Bull and many of the current U15, U16, & U17 Red Bull teams are ranked below MN teams. Many of them also are not state cup champs (but do come from NTexas, FL, CA, etc...). There are current Red Bull teams that lost at RII regionals to MN teams.
So your statement is also not completely true.
Maybe winning State Cup here is not as big a deal to other parts of the country. The only real way to find out is to play some of those teams. Both the ranking systems are awful at best.
10's dad - there is a bit of a difference in taking 8 teams like they did at U18 and putting them in their own bracket.
They took 32 teams at the other age groups.
Red Bull looks at clubs, not individual teams. As a result, some clubs have put their 2nd team in Red Bull because their 1st team is playing National League.
There is no Red Bull at U18.
Hmmm. If you had a team playing at CASL this weekend and you feel as if it wasn't a good fit for your team, tell your club. If you didn't have a team playing at CASL this weekend, shut up. Not your business. Nuff said.
LOL ahhh it is good to have all the kids home again!
5:42 - take a deep breath.
Whether it's CASL, Disney, PDA, Vegas, etc...., I believe this discussion crosses over to every tournament as these same issues will impact them all (and even MRL to some degree).
There is a bigger picture out there and the last time I checked the topic of this thread wasn't "postings for those whose DD's played at CASL last weekend".
Is EP the only team to win at CASL? Or did woodbury win as well?
Not trying to start trouble
Woodbury won their games but there is no playoff to speak of. You play your three games and go home.
10's dad...I agree with you. SSM hasn't won anything yet. Why should anybody drive down to Fairbault. There is good competition here in the Twin Bergs.
Im not in the loop as much as I have been about the rules, if any, about getting into RB and Nat League. Maybe it's like the ADL with the boys, the more clubs they have in one state or area the better?? I have no idea?? Just trying to get some sort of conversation started.
Hey 9:23, Im not afraid to say that Shattuck Girls havent won anything big. Whats the big deal?
Does that make the players failures? Question for you then, Do you have your daughter in a competitive club that has a competitive environment that is results oriented? Wins v Loses, Who plays who and when? or, do you have your daughter in a competitive club that is focused on performance rather than results? Like ball skills, field vision, tactics, inventiveness to find success in the future of the sport? Training for the next level, what ever level that might be? I know for a fact which of the 2 my daughter is in. And Im totally ok with it. Like iv said in the past, she has won a Natl Championship, and she left that team for Shattuck. Was it the right choice, it was for her. Maybe not for others, and IM sure it would not be ok for most parents on this board where winning and getting ranked is more important than anything else.
10s Dad
Rankings never matter to those who are unranked!
And winning never matters to those who can't win
hahahaha
10's dad don't take the bait. Same old same old from those who would love to see two entities against one another.
Winning matters to SSM as much as anybody, that is the only reason to play state cup. Wins help recruiting which helps the school financially. It certainly isn't for development as you may get one good game or two at most for a team at SSM's level. That is not to say SSM does not do a great job of development also as I am sure they do. Wins also spring from development even if not the focus. I am sure there are some at SSM at the older ages who have moved on in anticipation of the next level. That is common at U18 wherever you are. But like it or not winning is the best way to attract attention to your program. I support SSM by the way, as well as MTA and some of the other progressive clubs in the state. It is all good for soccer and we now have many good teams where 5 years ago they were few and far between. Winning and development are not separate goals at older ages, they can go hand in hand.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
I realize that simplification is an important rhetorical device, but too often it makes the author appear to be a simpleton.
Why does it always have to be one or the other with you people?
Can't it be that sometimes winning is important (state cup, MRL) and sometimes it is not (showcase tournaments, friendlies)?
Or that sometimes the level of competition is important (preparation for state cup, improvement in rankings) but sometimes it's not (showcase tournaments in front of coaches in December)?
Or that sometime rankings do matter (getting into top leagues or tournaments, massaging egos) and sometimes they don't(the other 99.9% of the time)?
Wishing everyone a festive Chanukah.
1132 seems to have fallen victim to his opening statement.
Please explain 12:46. Where is the oversimplification in my argument?
Are my questions too simple that you had to take a shot at me rather than debase yourself to the point of actually answering them?
Can't there be shades of gray?
Do enlighten us with your wisdom.
Please explain 12:46. Where is the oversimplification in my argument?
Are my questions too simple that you had to take a shot at me rather than debase yourself to the point of actually answering them?
Can't there be shades of gray?
Do enlighten us with your wisdom.
It appears 1132 wants to simplify and also has the answers on what is important and when. Everyone has an opinion it seems. Could it be that there is more than one way to perceive things? More than one side of an argument possible to see simultaneously? Of course not, every poster on this blog has the definitive answer to everything.
Quoting 10's dad
"she has won a nat'l championship".
That quote tells you everything you need to know.
About what?
11:32 here.
So, my over-simplification was in saying things are not simple?
You'll note that I did not have answers about what was important and when, only suggestions that different things may be important to different people at different times. That's an over-simplification?
I'm guessing you are intending to be ironic, but somehow it is not translating well.
1:11- What does that statement say to you? It says to me that 10s Dad (and #10) has been down roads that most of us will never travel. It tells me that they have seen/experienced many things at the "higher" levels which we have not as a collective group. It says to me that 10s Dad has experience that should be respected.
Does he know everything? No, probably not. I'd say that he probably doesn't completely understand the laments of parents of players who are not at the same level as #10. But...I can tell you that he has never steered me wrong. I have benefitted from thier youth soccer experiences, and so could many others if they would only listen with an objective ear rather than be leery of his advice.
I will defend 10s Dad to the end of the Earth on this topic. He is not focused on only his child, he would like to give advice and assistance to anyone coming behind him down "the path".
SSMSouthCampus
Wow.
LOL I see MTA sent a shipment of MA's kool aid to Faribault.
I read the above re/10s...sounds like his DD won the national championship by herself. I guess it wouldn't sound as much about 10 and his DD if he said her team won a national championship. Guess it's all about ME.Interesting how thoughts are put on paper.
SSM IS A NATIONAL SCOPE PROGRAM
WHY ARE 10'S & SC ALWAYS ON THIS STATE BLOG?
9:58 & 10:17 = angry jealous goobers
C'mon fellers. When are you going to figure out that people do not visit this site in order find out what they could be doing differently to help their kids soccer careers? And for good reason; this would be a darn poor place to find out anything of substance.
No, people visit this site to feel better about the decisions they have already made. People in CCs love to read that MTA isn't really doing anything they aren't doing, or that the people who run MTA are heartless thugs. People in MTA love to read how SSM lost a game (what? how can they lose? they recruit nationally!) or how any one particular cc hasn't won as many state cups as they have(look at the numbers! Should I post them for you?)
Mostly though, people feel better about the choices they have made by putting down others who have made a different choice.
"You chose a CC? yeah, right, sorry your daughter got cut"
"You chose MTA? Open up your wallet sucka, and have a glass of Kool Aid"
"You chose SSM? all you care about is winning and you can't even do that right"
I for one, appreciate the comments from 10's Dad even though I don't necessarily agree with all of them. He shares his thoughts and opinions without the outright potshots that most posters take these days. The postings have gotten so repetitious and polarized that I'm hesitant to comment anymore. I believe many other even minded posters/readers have been pushed away. I do enjoy the good natured banter but unfortunately that is few and far between these days. Hopefully this blog can return to the days where some thoughts and information could be exchanged and debated in a calm, rational, and good natured fashion.
Peace and Love
Ringo
9:58...Spin it anyway you want. LOL
SSMSC, thanks for your take, but you do not have to explain on my behalf. I shake my head at some of the things the posters post on this site.The attacks on club coachs, DOC's, ODP, heck, even hate against the Gopher women that just made it to the sweet 16. What do people want up here anyway?
Just look at 10:17s post, State Blog? LOL. Iv posted on blogs for the KC area, StL area,
SoCal area, BS and then there is the MinneSOOOOta site, it seems that you have to be in some sort of elite club to be able to post their way? EH?
Regarding my 9:46 post, I still havent seen the question answered yet? Or discussed. Its just easier I guess to slam and spew hate.
10s Dad
9:11 sums up exactly why USSF should wait to place academy programs here and get a feel for the atmosphere here before awarding it to any club.
9:56,
As was posted earlier USSF awards Academy status to winning programs.
It's as simple as that. Do you think they really care about soccer politics? Do you think there aren't politics in other states where they've already selected clubs?
Have you looked at the USSF application to see what they care about? You should!
What do you expect them to do? Wait until Eden Prairie or Blackhawks or whoever else might become the top clubs in the state maybe 5-10-15-20 years from now?
The USSF is trying to develop players and win NOW.
10:35 is right. If and when a USSF Academy is awarded here it will be on the boys side with far and away the strongest candidates being:
SSM which has already had a boys team make it to the national championship game in their first few years and have the structure in place for continued success.
MTA which has won 11 boys State Cup titles (when combined with Wings) over the last three years. The only other club with 2 is the MU Jedi team.
Please do not take this as a knock against any other club as I know there are many, many, many other quality clubs with great coaches and player talent, but the USSF is going to pick the top winning clubs/programs.
9:11
You're right. The problem is that we are all insecure enough to need to get on here and rip the opposition on a regular basis, so this will apparently continue as long as the blogmaster enjoys the carnage.
Since I am here anyway: MTA is already an underachieving, overpoliticized cesspool of naive, over-paying parents and kids who sometimes have some ability. The only good news is that the coaches are much worse.
I feel better now.
11:06,
I'm hoping your post is "tongue in cheek"....lol.
let me throw a curve then...
talking girls in the RedBull and Natl League..and even MRL to a degree..Eclipse, U18, 17 and 16 teams are all very good, however, the 15s and 14s are not even in the top 3 IL teams, however, they get into MRL Premier Divisions and they get into the better brackets. Is it because of the club they are from because as a team they are not that great. That doesnt sound fair either?
10s Dad
10'S DAD,
Good point, that is another reason that "model" we try to emulate here does not work well. For kids in those metro areas there are other oppotunities due to the scale of population. The zero sum game played here by one club leads to domination of State Cup and a relative thud regionally. First, we lack the population base compared to Chicago, St. Louis etc. Those areas can and do support a few to several elite clubs. That's why SSM is vital to the Mn soccer scene to bring true elite soccer here.
12:10,
Our population in the metro is comparable to St Louis.
And by the way...there has been a merger of top clubs in St Louis in effort to consolidate talent.
1121, Yes you are right!!
What IYHO are the 3 best tournaments in MN where teams outside MN are invited.
Schwans Cup
?
?
NSC
All American Girls
NSC, AAG and USA are NOT that big anymore. 10 yrs ago, yes. But not anymore. Top clubs tend to go to the tournaments where college coaches go too.
2:17 - not everything revolves around colleges and getting a scholarship. What if your child is only a U11-U14 (my guess that was what 1:39 was looking for). I agree these are not huge regional tournaments, but at the earlier ages the better IA, NE, WI and a few IL teams do make the trek over.
Apparently 2:17 needs to bash the tournaments. The question was: What IYHO are the 3 best tournaments in MN where teams outside MN are invited? If there are better ones in MN then simply name them IYHO. What are the tournaments in MN that the college coaches go to?
NSC Cup Still good though they need some changes
Schwans Weekend
Schwans Cup
In that order. IMHO
Big budget cuts coming to affect MN HS sports 2009.
The most highly attended Minnesota tournaments by college coaches are Schwann's USA Cup and State Cup.
11:21,
This is 11:06 and that was a tongue-in-cheek response. That said, it's very funny to me to see the entry right after mine -
"Hater!" Now that I think about it, I am a hater. My kid didn't get cut, and I still think you're a bunch of pretenders over there at MTA.
332, What are we pretending??
Good, be a hater. Just don't whine when their team playing up a year runs you over and you get left in the dust. And I think the entry after yours was tongue and cheek too. To quote a little Stripes, "lighten up Francis".
You are right Francis!!
This tournament talk is good. I agree NSC and USA Cup weekend are the two best followed by the USA Cup week and NSC fall.
This brings us back to the discussion about some of the challenges Top MN teams face . Gotsoccer ranks the above and only one other Tournament in MN.(Dakota Rev-It-Up) No other tournament recieved a ranking largely because few if any ranked teams play in these tournaments. Is that because the teams aren't good enough to be ranked? NO, It is because Got soccer recognizes so few tournaments in MN. TOurnament directors get your club tournament recognized by Got soccer so all mn teams start eaning points which will (by the nature of their goofy points system) raise the tournament ranking for the best MN tournaments which should help attract more out of state teams to attend. Also if your team is at all concerned with their gotsoccer ranking play in the tournaments that are recognized by gotsoccer so at least they are getting the best MN teams to attend and hence get higher ratings for their tournaments.
5:07 is right, as flawed as Gotsoccer is, and it is, we here should attempt to work with them as it will benefit Mn teams.
This will probably get ripped but the winter MTA showcase in St. Cloud and SSM showcase in Faribault both draw a sprinkling of D1 and many D2 and D3 coaches from the midwest. Good tournaments for college exposure for U16 and U17 teams.
I think that a costs and field quality have contributed to the decline in the quality of tournaments in mn as well.
1. usa cup registration fees are absurd. the fees are higher than any youth tournament i have ever seen..no one is going to pay that kind of money for terrible competition when there are much better options available to them.
2. inadequate field size and quality...no one is going to spend money to come to mn if they know their kids will be playing on tiny fields that are poorly maintained. nsc powers that be could have focused on quality of fields rather than quantity over the years. Their preference to squeeze as many fields as possible on to a plot of land has contributed to the down fall of our local options in terms of quality tournaments more so than anything else in my opinion.
that being said, you can't really blame them for taking the quantity route as it has certainly brought 10s of millions of dollars into the local economy over the years.
I think that a costs and field quality have contributed to the decline in the quality of tournaments in mn as well.
1. usa cup registration fees are absurd. the fees are higher than any youth tournament i have ever seen..no one is going to pay that kind of money for terrible competition when there are much better options available to them.
2. inadequate field size and quality...no one is going to spend money to come to mn if they know their kids will be playing on tiny fields that are poorly maintained. nsc powers that be could have focused on quality of fields rather than quantity over the years. Their preference to squeeze as many fields as possible on to a plot of land has contributed to the down fall of our local options in terms of quality tournaments more so than anything else in my opinion.
that being said, you can't really blame them for taking the quantity route as it has certainly brought 10s of millions of dollars into the local economy over the years.
The reason most people don't like the USA Cup fees around here is that they just go up there, play their games and leave. Most people have no idea the amount of other stuff made available to teams and rarely take advantage of them. If you're just going for the games, yeah, it's a waste. If you're going for the experience, it takes on a different light. JMOO.
As far as the fields, the size still sucks, but I know for a fact that they are going to rebuild as many as possible for this year's Cup since it's the 25th anniversary. And they want to expand the Puma V-elite bracket which every game I watched last summer was very high quality.
Puma V-elite bracket was way overrated, they were good teams, but were not nearly the teams that they made them out to be, and they totally screwed a MN team out of it which I dont like at all, anytime a team goes through the a bracket of a tournament and scores 30+ goals and gives up zero they are in the wrong bracket, bad move by USA cup
Which team got screwed? Your point is valid, but what I heard about the group is that Puma invited half of the teams from clubs that they sponsor/sell uniforms to and USA Cup invited the rest. They wanted a couple int'l teams and a local team and took teams from Norway, Canada & Bermuda and then Yonga's team from what I heard because they had won the year before. It was only the first year they did it, so if your kid was on the screwed team, sorry to hear that, but I doubt any of the elite tournaments started out perfectly. Personally, I'm just glad it seems like they're making an honest effort to raise the competitive level of teams that come to the cup.
Twins could win the World Series, Vikings could win the Super Bowl, Gophers could be national champions, etc... and I can guarantee you there would be still be people complaining on this blog... I guess it is easier to find fault and criticize than to give applaud effort.
What club based tournaments traditionally have the best attendance and run a quality program?
Lets get a list of the better ones and then encourage those club tournament directors to contact gotsoccer (To get the tournament identified) in an effort to bolster our MN teams Gotsoccer points totals.
Once we get the list compiled encourage your clubs better teams to attend some of those tournaments.
I personally dislike the format Gotsoccer uses but also agree with the above posters that it is crazy to fight it since so many national tourneys are putting such a significant value on this system.
As for club based tournaments in the u9-u14 group, our team attends Burnsville Fire every year and we find it to be competitive and well run. It is weaker above those ages however. Last year they committed to full size fields and regulation length games which added to our value (to address the point regarding small fields and shortened games in Blaine). The REV tournament is a good early season one although it often has crappy weather. In the west metro in our home base, EP used to be a great tournament but has fallen off in the past few years.
Good luck!
With regard to any ranking systems, I think all the teams have to take a really hard look in the mirror (first by taking off the rose colored glasses) and ask themselves if they are truly a regional team? I'm reading posts about obtaining gotsoccer points (which IMO is an extremely flawed ranking system - it seems to often reward quantity over quality) to gain entrance into top regional tournaments, but let's be honest, how many teams in MN are actually of that quality at each age group? 2 maybe 3?
At each age group, our State Cup winners (which is usually a pretty good barometer of the best team in the state at each respective age group) might have moderate success (rarely do we have a regional semi-finalist) but after that oftentimes the strength of the teams drops off. If the top teams are middle of the pack for the region, what would lead anyone to believe that teams #3, #4, #5, etc... are going to have any success?
9:49 Your point is well taken, but that doesn't change the fact that we need to get the MN teams "in the game" with the gotsoccer system. We are currently on the sidelines as most of our tournaments are not recognized while the same quality tournament in another state is recognized and giving the teams playing in said tournament points. The ranking of the tournament is largely determined by the ranking of the teams playing. We need to start accumulating points for our teams now or it COULD be a bigger issue for our MN teams moving forward. I have heard of MN teams being excluded from tournaments or being accepted to a lower flight because of this gotsoccer system. I encourage the local tournaments to get "recognized" too . If for no other reason than to level the field.
No doubt 9:49's points are correct about the top MN teams being average on a regional level. So far this is correct, but hopefully with all of the winter training improvements that were being discussed on this blog earlier better results lie ahead.
Wow, a civil discussion?
I would like to see MTA take advantage of their increasing visibility across the region and their Nike club status to host a true tournament (not an invite).
They have the name recognition to attract some of the better clubs across the region and likely the pull with gotsoccer to have their tournament listed.
They don't have the fields, it is true. This would require an honest attempt to act together with some of the communities in the area that do have fields.
Don't even think about NSC, though. Those fields are just too small to host a high level event.
There is a lot of talk from MTA about their interest in improving all of MN soccer, and I think this is a true opportunity to show it isn't just words.
Wings had a tournament. If MTA wants one they could just fill in that spot that Wings already had on the calendar. The filing date for tourneys is past however for this year so if they didn't apply they are likely out of luck (to be MYSA sanctioned).
949, I agree and would argue that there is only one team at most at each age group that would have success at each age group. Actually there are some age groups where the best teams in MN couldn't and haven't competed in the past. Unless you have gone out and played other big clubs from the region you have no idea what that level looks like. Being the Top team in MN doesn't always correspond to being able to compete on a regional level.
Who is headed to Disney and any predictions?
Best local tournaments I have seen other than Schwanns and NSC are
1. Dakota Rev
2. St Croix
3. Burnsville
All three had good levels of play at the C1 level. Not as much of the C2/C1 blending or the multiple age group blending.
Dakota Rev and St Croix both have nice facilities/fields and a good tournament feel as most games are not at a stand alone location.
Weather can be an issue with all tournaments but especially the early season Dakota Rev tournament.
I think the key factor in attending a Club tournament is getting to play like level teams. These three seemed to be the best in the age classes my kids play in. What other tournaments meet the same criteria?
OK for FUN and conversation.
Who are the best teams at each age group from U11 and Up that would have regional success? PLease no hating!!
Lakeville's is pretty good. Good tournament atmosphere, lots of teams etc.
12:23,
U-11 MTA
U-12 MTA
U-13 MTA
U-14 MTA
U-15 MTA
U-16 EP, MTA
U-17 Woodbury, PSA
U-18 MTA, Woodbury
U-19 SSM
12:38 is fairly close except u-13 Dakota Rev is my pick for the top team
12:38-you have a good feel for MN soccer on the girl's side. I would add DR at U-13.
12:45 & 12:48,
Sorry don't know much about the 13s
1238 is close from U14-18 except MTA at U19 and SSM at U18 instead of Woodbury. SSM does not have a U19 team.
Any verbals from the 2010's yet?
What U-12 teams are playing 13 this year? anyone know? MTA is for sure. BTW if MTA plays 13 Prior lake has a real good U-12 girls team. Maybe they are playing U-13 also?
1245, Rev 13's are a good team, but won't match up well against MTA. MTA has the better players from top to bottom and would win by several goals.
please no Rev vs MTA U-13 talk. Rev fans let this one go they are baiting you in to a meaningless discussion. Anyone following that age group knows these are the two best teams right now. play 'em 10 times and it would likely be 5-5.
thank goodness we've never had this discussion before.........
Not sure who's baiting who but with those two sets of parents they'll bite at anything.
Please let's not start that old fight over. Let's keep it fun
will someone please set up a scrimmage between Rev 13's and MTA 13's where it is required all players from both teams play and each coach commits to trying to win at all costs. Let each team agree on the Ref's and play it at the most neutral site possible. Lets put this debate to bed.
State Cup is too far away to wait and listen to all of this banter.
If it isn't SSM and MTA. It is Rev 13's and MTA 13's. The prior discussion was moving along so well. (the tournament talk)
MTA working with CCs to host a tournament. Maybe. More likely they will use their new foot hold in Woodbury with the new HS (Abboud and Walczak just announced as girls and boys coaches respectively) and the 14+ full sized fields surrounding the school and Bielenberg to run something. How many fields do we need to bid for the region championships?
As far as local tournaments go I don't like tournaments that spread teams out over 10 locations (like Burnsville and REV). No real tournament feel if you're on an outlaying site. St Croix is a good one, so is the one Woodbury runs - both at one location with good fields. NSC is still king though regardless of what people say about field size.
Also MYSA sanctioning is not a need with US Club Soccer.
Agreed about REV v MTA u13 parents. Shut up and talk smack after state cup.
Why all the hostility toward rev and mta U13 parents? They are no worse than the mta-ep-ssm triad at U16.
People are Mad because there kids teams are not being talked about.
MTW (Formerly Wings) is still hosting the same tournament they always have, just with new name (MN Thunder West Invitational probably). Wings College Showcase started last summer will run as MTA or MTW College Showcase.
3:22 Good. what age groups are they including?
I think it's great that we have two "spirited" teams at U-13. But agree it is probably better to let it play out on the field.
Mn soccer is all the better for having teams to rally around, especially quality teams like these who have solid coaching and a year around commitment to training. Hopefully one will push the other and vise versa so whoever wins State Cup(I know it is presuming one of the two win) may actually have success regionally.
Bangu's current 15's had success beyond MN and I bet one of these two can also.
I agree about the tournament single site idea over the gigantic ones spread over a dozen smaller sites. To me one that is spread out is more like league games on the weekend that a tournament experience. The excitement of lots of people is memorable for the kids. Not knocking the spread out events as they may be very well run. But if our team has a choice we pick the more tournamenty ones.
Ok, Who's tournaments give the best "tournamenty" experiences. Most outside the NSC are seperated to some degree but of the ones not at only one location several tournaments "pod" the teams at a few locations and these seem to me to give that "tournamenty" feel.
Most Important is who draws the top teams? If we plan to get our teams (MN teams) gotsoccer recognition the most important thing is the quality of competition.
Some folks have disappeared who were knowledgable contributors to this blog ie..Tomass, PMS etc..
The first step would be to put club affiliation aside and pick one tournament in which the best teams at each age group would be willing to participate. Given that there are usually two strong teams at each age group in MN, I think it would be smart to have a "super bracket" or some equivalent at u14s, 16s, and 19s. If you pool together the best 13s and 14s, the best 15 and 16s, and the best 17s-19s, you suddenly have a pretty competitive event.
I believe that this would work out pretty well if it was a part of NSC Cup, or held at Woodbury or St. Croix over memorial day weekend. This would be an excellent opportunity for state cup champs to prepare for regionals, and a great opportunity for the 19s to prepare for their state cup games the following weekend. Furthermore, there would be very few mrl league games that weekend, which could entice some midwest teams to come up here for a low cost relatively competitive event.
If MTA and the other strong clubs at each age group could put their differences aside and work with each other to put something like this together it would be great for mn soccer. Obviously, MTA would have to be on board as they are the most reputable MN club nationally and have the most state cup champs. If teams from around the midwest knew with certainty that all mn state cup champs and finalists would be involved I would guess that many of the strong teams would want to participate. I would further wager that if reputable MN directors/coaches contacted their buddies working for other strong clubs in the region and informed them of the objective to put on a cheap but competitive evnent that many would bite.
Obviously the whole working together thing probably won't happen, but I hope both sides can combine their efforts for the benefit of the MN soccer community at some point in the future.
6:40, Woodbury is all at one site and has the potential to grow as their site expanded and doubled size thanks to the new HS. St Croix also has a good single site venue with good fields. Both were mentioned previously here. EP at Miller Park is a good one as well but I think they have satellite sites.
Best teams and best competition? NSC events for sure. I think they will all be gotsoccer soon.
What is the fascination with gotsoccer? It is a poor and flawed ranking system.
Most folks who have been around for a while give much more credence to NSR.
Read back a few hundred posts before you chime in. We don't want to start this again...
11:41 - 9:24 here, I have and that is why I asked the question.
The belief that trying to get MN tournaments to receive gotsoccer points so those teams can gain acceptance into tournaments is a flawed concept. Why would the better regional teams want to come to MN when they can enter better tournaments in their backyard.
You want to get into better tournaments? Go to quality regional tournaments and here's a concept....win some games. If you can't win at those tournaments then there is little chance of being accepted (and less chance of winning) at the higher level tournaments.
12:21 you are completely missing the point. If we are having similar level tournaments in MN that other states are having and our tournaments are Not recognized by Gotsoccer when the other states tournaments are recognized, then our teams are not being measured comparably with the teams from other states. This will noot make our teams any better or worse, it will simply measure out teams consistant with how other teams across the country are measured.
Your point about going to other regional tournaments is well taken. The problem is most of those tournaments are using Gotsoccer rankings as a significant indicator of a teams play level and some MN teams have had issues getting in to tournaments or being placed in the appropriate flight because we only have about 4 MN tournaments that are even recognized by Gotsoccer. If all MN tourneys get affiliated with Gotsoccer then all teams will be measured consistantly across tha region and state.
Agree the system is flawed, but feel we (MN) should get in the game.
12:39, I get your point. I'm hoping this might bring some clarity to this discussion. Name the teams and tournaments where this has happened. Give me some good examples and will gladly state your point is right. I just do not think there are that many teams in MN that your thought process would apply to.
JFG in Iowa awarded significant points last year and is not a strong tournament above U-14.
Has any decent MN team ever been excluded from JFG?
Why fight it? This is not worth arguing about. No downside to just making gotsoccer aware of your tournament. No fees involved, nothing bad, only potentially good.
Gotsoccer ratings are definately one of the distinguishing criteria more and more tournaments are considering. If your team hasn't been affected yet great, but it looks like it will be an issue in the future if our MN tournaments don't get in their system.
IMO, I don't think we'll ever see any MN team's status change in the future if MN tournaments don't get in their system.
Getting truly high level tournaments here will always be a challenge due to our geography and lack of regional calibre team depth.
If you are a team in the midwest, why come here when Chicago is probably much closer, has more tournament frequency, and stronger fields.
I still dont see or understand on why you worry about these rankings and getting your tournaments with gotsoccer etc. What is your over all objective?
Good series on scholarships running in Trib. Just what we need. More big dumb blockheads from out of state getting full rides to make the football team a doormat. I suggest the U drop out of the B10 and join the MIAC.Use that scholsrship money for Minn kids playing in other sports.
One thing for sure...The MTA 13 parents would beat the REV 13 parents in a scrimmage. Mta has several ex college players while the REV has nothing but talkers. Settle it on the field. Mixed teams M/F no limit on gender. The best team wins. Quit talkin and get it on.
LOL
I have a daughter on one of the mentioned teams (DR/MTA U13). I request that all of the immature bloggers leave these two teams alone and not drag these kids into your mentally challenged world. I realize this will likely fall on deaf ears but perhaps some of you with an axe to grind will wake up and grow up.
I'm with 7:52. We shouldn't talk about a team if someone has a child on the team.
Of course, that rules out not only the DR/MTA u13 teams, but all teams that have players with parents (or guardians).
And I don't think it should just be immature bloggers either, as maturity is somewhat subjective.
So, from now on, a moratorium for all mature and immature bloggers from mentioning any team (or club) that has a human child on it.
8:55-wow, it's in the genes. I'm immediately pulling my two kids out of soccer because I never played college soccer. How could my thirteen year old ever make the grade playing against an MTA kid whose mommie or daddy played at
Aadolphus or, for that matter, probably Carleton. Wow, how impressive. Hey idiot, spend more time teaching your kid humility as she will need it having been your offspring.
12:57 - take a deep breathe as I'm pretty sure 8:55 was just joking around ("lighten up Francis").
Agreed the MTA parents have the stars, but I think their depth of bench is a question. Also controlling prima donna mentality can be an issue for that club. The big question will of course be uniforms. Will the former MTA college stars want to don their old magic numbers that they wore in D1 ball or will they take the numbers that their dds wear? I think that this could cause in-fighting on the MTA parent squad. This could give the Rev a decisive physiological advantage since the Rev parents will just choose to wear something green and be more of a cohesive unit.
Both of those teams suk
Word on the street is the Rev moms will take the field while the Rev dads will handle the cheerleading duties.
Vegas has the Rev moms a slight favorite.
ESPN negotiating PPV
I know a few of the MTA Dads and Moms. The Moms would kick butt on their respective spouces. I'm pretty sure all the athletic ability came from the mother's Genes and the girls should be very thankful for that!! The MTA dads should handle cheerleading duty also.
Hopefully their respective DDs won't get on this blog and start smack talking each other about how good their moms are.
Should we call this State Cup or more fitting to call it Estate Cup? Which team is doing more training? Are either going to Senior Surf Cup or Disney for the Aged?
Which teams will do well in Disney?
You will know in 3 weeks. Won't have to speculate.
But I like to speculate :)
And I like to read speculation about how awesome my DD's team is:
a) awesome
b) super awesome
c) totally awesome
Once I know just how awesome you think my DD's team is, then I will know how awesome you think my DD is, and by extension how awesome I am.
hahahaha. I think you are very awesome 3:05
3:05 are you a psychoanalyst? You just nailed 90% of the vicariously living nuts on this thread. My DD is great, why I must be great to have procreated her. Sadly enough, 90% of those nuts on any given sideline never played at the level in any sport which their DD is currently playing at, but you wouldn't know it reading this thread.
Actually I think 90% is low, but the big question that I keep wondering is what about the DD's DD. Will they as parents continue to push at this level or will they say enough let's just do in-house soccer. I vote for the former.
Do some honest soul searching.....
If you can compete ,great. If you can't compete just step aside.
The series in the Trib about scholarships was interesting. Would probably be informative for parents who haven't been thru the process.
3:56 Whaaaat???
List the best girl teams in the state from 13-19:
13. DR
14. Tonka
15. MTA
16. EP
17. Inferno
18. MTA
19. SSM
SSM is a U18 will be close with MTA MTA will win U19
DR or MTA at 13
MTA or B-Ville at 14
Agree with the others
Can White give Blue a run at U15?
White team will give the blue team a good game for sure.
Other than Disney anyone else traveling to out of state tourneys any time soon? Good luck to all MN teams at Disney.
8:40 - thanks for the listing. It would be nice for those offering their opinions what they are basing their rankings off of (having seen the teams, head-to-head, common oponents, roster changes, gut, etc...).
Also, as 8:14 pointed out, SSM is a U18 team. Here's my listing and it is based off of prior year accomplisments and team outlook moving into 2009.
U13 - MTA (they won it last year as U12's hard to pick someone else until they beat them)
U14 - MTA (runner ups last year as U13's so hard to pick someone else until they beat them)
U15 - MTA Blue (2 time defending state cup champs) but MTA White is a very close 2nd
U16 - MTA Blue (3 time defending state cup champs so until they are beaten...) but EP is neck-and-neck and not sure about SSM
U17 - WDB (4 time defending state cup champs)
U18 - MTA Blue (until someone beats them they have to still be the favorites). SSM on paper looks just as good, but until they play the game.....
U19 - MTA
Do I think MTA will win 6 out of the 7 state cup finals - no, as so many things can change from year to year especially in how coaches can develop their players, how players can improve on their own, a break here-a break there, injuries, etc......
All I have to go off of is a historical track record.
Thunder U17 Blue Girls
Thunder U15 Blue Boys
REV U15 Girls
Burnsville U17 Girls
Are going to Vegas over president weekend
REV U13 girls will head to Arizona the same weekend
MTA U12 girls are going to Arizona in January, think most MTA teams are heading to Vegas in March.
Those are the once know pretty sure plenty more teams will be heading out of state come February and forward.
MTA GU15 White is probably the 6th best team in the state at their age group. They won't be giving the Magic a run for their money. There are 2 teams which don't get any mention here which will be much more competitive with the Magic this year. You can figure out who they are amongst yourselves.
Actually I can't, who are they and why do you think these two teams will be much more competitive with the Magic this year. This is a sincere question and just looking for your opinion. Is it player movement? Coaching? etc....
NSSA and Wayzata are both storng, Wayzata could win State Cup with a break or two.
12:59 It has to be one of these: NSSA, Wayzata, EDP, from the 2008 premier league or the newcomers Dakota Rev or Tonka? (I think Rev and Tonka are Premier, correct?) If not these then who?
It is nice to see dialogue about teams without it being partisan. From a strictly outsiders view (got no dog in this hunt), just curious why the posters would come to these conclusions (completely sincere). Has the U15 Blue lost some of its "magic" - and if so why, have these teams gotten better - and if so, how, etc....
Just looking for some constructive dialogue that isn't based on MTA is great or their teams suck because they are MTA.
I too have "no dog in this hunt" but can offer some general observations. I doubt Blue has lost it's Magic. As the teams get "older" the best teams/coaches tend to attract other good players who strengthen that team.
Winter training has become more universal amongst the top teams which evens things out.
At younger ages a few superstars on a team can affect a teams success more easily than at the older ages when things seem to even out due to training,maturity etc.
Blue has been a target for the others to achieve too . When you have a target to aim at it is easier to hit than for Blue who already sits on top.
Those are just a few general thoughts that may be "inplay"
On paper there is one dominant team. That doesn't win games though many here think otherwise. IMO, of the above non-MTA teams only NSSA has any legit scoring threat against MTA's defenders, 4 of whom were just selected to ODP national camp. Wayzata's goalscorer moved to MTA. I think White will be the next best team.
At U14, DR will outcoach MTA in what will otherwise be an interesting game.
Dkt Rev 13's will win in a close championship game. They are a dominant team in the age group. The only edge MTA could have is their more aggressive early season schedule of tournaments.
Good guesses out there. Remember, the Magic doesn't have MA for head coach anymore, although MC "co coached" with MA last year, the chemistry won't be the same. And even though that some more of the players were selected to ODP national camp many of the other teams girls have gotten bigger faster and more soccer savvy also. This age group may end up being the most fun to watch this year and end up putting out some of the best teams and talent across the board that MN hasn't since the Bangu, St.Croix ,and Woodbury teams of a few years ago.
Go away U12 and 13 posters, nobody cares about your super teams. Come back in two or three years.
The 15s will be the least competitive age group to watch besides the 17s. U14s is anyones to take. 13s will be dull until the Rev MTA match up, but MTA is clearly 3 goals better IMO with absolutely no comparison between the coaching or overall talent each team has assembled. Watch out for an athletic Edina group though.
I care about my daughter's Super Team!!!!! What do you mean no one cares?!?!?!
Why don't we try this before this starts to deteriorate......
Which two teams will meet in the State Cup finals at all the different age groups (with the assumption that they aren't in the same pool, etc...)?
Since we don't know the draw some possibilities =)
U13 REV vs MTA (Edina?)
U14 Burnsville vs MTA (Woodbuty, Tonka)
U15 MTA BLUE VS MTA White, REV or NSSA? (many good teams in this age group but not quite close to Blue yet even if the White team gave them a good run last year)
U16 MTA-EP (what about SSM and Wayzatta?)
U17 Woodbury-PSA
U18 MTA - SSM (Woodbury and MTA WEST?)
U19 MTA and who ever signs up
Does scrimmage results help to get an idea of where teams stand or not? Any thoughts?
OK early ideas..
U13 Don't care
U14 MTA vs. WDB
U15 Magic vs. NSSA or depending on grouping REV
U16 MTA Blue vs.EP, SSM isn't in the same category as the top 2 teams in this age group.
U17 WDB vs. SCV
U18 MTA vs. SSM
U19 Its over, maybe it should be an "open class" and all the overbearing MTA Moms can play each other. Same on the boys side except most of the dads don't know how the game works.
doesn't ssm have a couple of true 19s on their team? if so, wouldnt they play in the u19 bracket?
4:45 - depends on what everyone is trying to accomplish as well as the mind set of the teams. Oftentimes scrimmages mean a lot more to the "underdog" or teams looking for respect. IMO the motivational factor isn't always there when a more established team plays an upstart in a scrimmage. In a true game when something might be on the line (i.e. - State Cup) the intensity level seems to get notched up a bit and the "favorite" usually will prevail. I've seen where one team "wins" the scrimmage only to be beaten soundly once game time rolls around.
The Burkhardt cousins from Germany are now playing.
U13-14 Don't care.
U15 MTA Blue was fortunate to escape MTA White last year. Will be close again. Good age group.
U16 MTA Blue and EP will battle again.
U17 Inferno wins again, possible challenge from PSA.
U18 MTA Blue will battle SSM. Strongest age group in the state with good teams at MTA West and WDB also.
U19 Doesn't matter anymore.
5:11, And your point is???
3:04 FYI Dakota Rev doesn't have a U-14 C1 Girls team . Unless the C2 coach is amazing :) I think it is safe to say DR will not be a factor in this age group.
Finals
13 Dak Rev MTA
14 Woodbury MTA
15 MTA blue NSSA
16 EP MTA
17 Inferno SCV
18 SSM MTA
That's the 1-2 finish in the finals too. The MTA stranglehold will be diminished some.
627 I hope you are right but I doubt it. MTA is likely to win a minimum of 4 State Cups from 13-19 and possibly 6. When their monopoly is broken I hope it is because other teams have become better and not because MTA has backslid.
I certainly did not mean that stranglehold comment as a slam, I think enough other teams/clubs are getting strong enough and doing the similar early season competition that will lead to some different State Cup champs. If not 2009, it will be 2010. MTA does have less allure to all the top players than they once did.
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