MTA can call their 18 Blue Girls Elite and no one will complain. They (for now) can call their 16 Blues elite and no one will complain. 15's and down shouldn't (yet) be called elite for any MN club. As for their 17 Blue Girls being called elite and their white teams at 18, 17 and 16 being called elite, you've got to be kidding!
My suggestion is for MTA to change their white teams at the older ages (16-18) to (development) status and a lot of the angst will go away.
As for SSM, they are what they are, a damn good product that produces very good players at U-18, with a very good "development" squad at U-16. Not every player at Shattuck will become elite, but 10-15 hours a week on the pitch will certainly help. My daughter would have been there if she didn't have access to a great CC coach here in the TC and our family could handle her being away at 14-18 years of age.
Finally, some dialog. I get the whole elite superiority complex 6:52. I don't think it is pervasive through the entire directorship (or dictatorship) there, but a few bad apples... Just like in any other club.
8:23, did you read R2R? Very similar thinking. This is from the blogs, brits, etc post:
Criticism #2 We believe that there should be an Elite Club in town, but that club should have only 1 team at each gender at the U13+ age groups and should leave the player development of the younger ages to the community clubs.
I'll take this one in two parts.
First part, I can respect the thought of one true elite team for our state per age group/gender. People look at our second teams as purely revenue generating teams, believing that there are many other clubs out there who can offer a similar training environment to what MTA offers these teams. However, I have also seen player movement from our White teams to our Blue teams, as well as many Blue team players who did not make the Blue team opt to stay with the club, believing in what we offer, although they were now playing with a second team. It is difficult to predict how players' bodies will develop in their teen years and as I preach each August at tryouts, Blue team one year does not mean Blue team the next.
As for being a revenue generating source for the club, of course they are. So are our Blue teams. So are any teams for any club. To say that these White teams are in place for that sole purpose doesn't hold much weight with me at all. Part of the problem is the use of the "elite" word itself. We'd probably be better off calling our Blue team MTA Elite teams, and our White teams MTA Something else. This is not demeaning our White teams by any means as these families should be here not for the name but for the services. I would hope MTA families are here for the program, not for the team they play on.
(End R2R rant)
There are some people with MTA who see things from a "hater's" perspective as well.
As for SSM being elite, probably more so than MTA, wouldn't you think? Maybe not every player but as a whole program they are closer to the word than anyone else here. In the end elite is just a marketing term used by the clubs to reel in parents. Who is to blame more then, the marketors or the marketees?
I coach a 9th grade girls basketball team at a HS famous for top teams. I deal with parents all the time who think their daughter should be a starter or get more PT. We have issues with MSHL just like everybody else. Politics is part of every youth sport.It's not going to change any time soon.
823 I would agree with much of what you say. I simply don't understand the need to use the word elite in any way. Elite can mean different things in different areas. For example, the MTA U18 girls team has easily been the best and most successful team at the regional and national level the state has produced in the past 5 years. Some younger teams may eventually surpass them but that is future. I know that may change with player losses this year but as of now I don't think anyone would argue that point. Does that make them elite? Maybe in MN but there are teams in Region 2 that outclass them and more across the nation. Elite? Not on the national scene. MTA just refer to your teams as Blue and White. Let your play show whether or not your team should be called elite. You may annoy a few less people.
i can't believe that folks would spend so much time being concerned with youth soccer club terminology. seriously people, you must have better things to do....
SSM doesnt use the term 'Elite'. Also, what does Academy really mean? MTA? SSM is a true academy. I think academy is a catch word if you ask me for clubs to use??
YD, like your style man and respect your search for dialog in a time of uncharted territory in MN youth soccer.
As far as marketing goes, I'd throw out there that all clubs do it. Many clubs boast of providing the best soccer development opportunity out there. Just browse through local soccer club websites and see for yourself. Woodbury announces multiple MRL teams, Burnsville is proud of their relationship with Coerver, PSA brags about 3,000 players and their BEST soccer academy, Blackhawks have Tony Sanneh on the front page of their site to show that they've development US National Team players. The list goes on. I believe the "hate" comes about due to competition for top players by clubs who feel that they are capable of adequately handling the development of high caliber players, and now that Bangu and Wings have merged and have the backing and name of the pro team in town, others can't compete with that. It seems unfair that the rich have gotten apparently richer and no one likes to think that others think they are inferior in some way. Just my take on it.
Do SSM and MTA have idiots in their programs? Sure they do. Do they have coaches who act in unethical ways and recruit with no regard for MYSA's brilliant recruiting policy? Yes. But all other clubs have the same.
In the end parents will vote with their feet and their check books. Time will tell if "elite" type programs will take long term hold in our state. Until then, it seems like wasted breath on both sides of the argument to get worked up. People believe in what they are doing and what they offer. End of story. Everyone has a right to make the cases known and you can't beat the entertainment dollar of visiting this site every now and again, but come on. All this site really does is fuel the distrust and angst in our little soccer world. I don't really want this site to go away but it probably would be best for the state of the game in MN.
Anyone else sick of talking elite though? How about a discussion on the top five local community clubs NOT including MTA. Here's mine.
Girls EP Woodbury Edina Wayzata PSA
Boys PSA MU St Croix EP Blackhawks
Up and Coming Clubs Chan Chaska Coon Rapids Dakota Rev Burnsville Blaine
I can give rational later if people decide to pick this up. Clearly in my book the south and north districts are behind with the south still way ahead of the north.
And take a moniker for this one so that we can track responses and filter through all the anon hate.
Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionaryn., pl. -mies. A school for special instruction. A secondary or college-preparatory school, especially a private one.
The academic community; academe:
Higher education in general. Used with the.
A society of scholars, scientists, or artists.
Academy Plato's school for advanced education and the first institutional school of philosophy. Platonism. The disciples of Plato.
what were you expecting to find? a picture of a mta logo next to the definition?
actually the "school for special instruction" would allow any specific training program of any sport to technically be called an "academy". there are tennis academies, basketball academies, golf academies, etc.... scattered all over the place.
It's a marketing tool that Bangu used to their benefit and now others are looking to capitalize on. It's the best thing around... until something better comes along.
9:13 Thanks for trying to change the subject. When you say best CC's what is your basis of measurement? Winning teams, numbers of players, winter training programs, qualified coaching, lowest cost,nicest fields etc ??? My measurement would be based on developmental programs the club has first and winning records second followed by all of the other issues such as cost. I see some clubs mentioned that I think fall short on the developmental side in yours and the other post ranking clubs. Give me your criteria and I will give my opinion.
Since we are into defining things, we might want to define "CC". Many "CC's" have teams with players from all over the metro. Or it might be easier to go with the best non-MTA route of other clubs (9:13 included Blackhawks, St. Croix which are not generally considered as CC's).
ST PAUL Blackhawks, St Croix is a general are which I guess could be defined as a Community. St Croix is like Dakota Rev and North Metro , less of a city/community club and more of an area/community Club. I also think all CC's have some outside the area/city players on some of their teams but are predominantly from one geographic territory.
Let's just use the term soccer club. Without wanting to start another uproar here, CC has been morphed into a perjorative term. We probably all can agree any club making the top 5 list will be inclusive of kids from surrounding communities.
80-90% of blackhawks and St croix players come from st. paul and the stillwater area respectively...based on the numbers, these clubs would generally be considered ccs by all who bash such clubs on this blog.
80-90% of blackhawks and St croix players come from st. paul and the stillwater area respectively...based on the numbers, these clubs would generally be considered ccs by all who bash such clubs on this blog.
the lack of activity on this thread pretty much confirms that it is populated by folks who are either pro/anti MTA and SSM as all other topics go stale. kind of sad when you come to think about it.
8:41 I would postulate that when the thread went away from MTA talk it quieted down, telling us that the "controversy" regarding them is stirred up by themselves quite often on here. Then they get on and play the victim. I would be happy to see more intelligent talk here. Another month and we can start the State Cup prognostications.
I am a little slow on keeping up with this blog. what are the projections for MN teams performance in MRL? It looks like there are a few Premier Division teams and a decent number of First division (primarily girls). Are any teams going to be regionally competitive?
CASL is this weekend. And Im sure some of these know-it-all's can tell how good a team is or going to be by reading a box score, or better yet, reading scores only on the website.
Ranking clubs as "best" is all in the eyes of the beholder. I can tell you I think the club my daughters are involved with is the best. So I hold a positive Bias towards that Club. I see several of the girls clubs listed reflecting what I believe is the success of a few very good teams more than a good club system to develop players. I think clearly St Croix and Burnsville are my winners from your list of girls clubs. Both have club sponsored age group training that are extensive enough to get results. St Croix the better of the two in my mind (14 week session with club trainers) Burnsville had low numbers (acording to the numbers posted on their web site) Under 100 kids and 40 ages 6-8. Burnsville has good quality trainers, but not Burnsville trainers, rather rented trainers from Coerver. I prefer quality club trainers JMO.
PSA, WYZ,have short/expensive 6 week programs,again according to their web sites.
Woodbury seems to be focused on training tied to specific teams, which is great for those teams but likely inconsistant for all in the club.
All critisism set aside. The great news is that so many of the MN Clubs are moving to a formalized winter training program. Congrats to all clubs who are making an effort to develop players/teams in the "offseason"
I guess I assumed when people think "top" club it would be relative to the development programs that they offer rather than the results of their teams.
I also agree about the CC perception. Though I do think some who were branded as CC people took offense to the branding and blew up the anti-CC sentiments coming from the so called elite programs, soccer clubs is probably a better term. Thus I have changed my moniker :-)
judging results from showcase tournaments like casl will always be extremely difficult due to the inability to gauge the competition. there are some teams with a nice national/regional ranking that might be overrated and there are teams that have no ranking which might actually be very good. combine that with the "everyone plays" mentality as these are "showcases" for the players and anything can happen.
I agree with SS that REV is really on the uptick. Other clubs to keep your eye on are Chan/Chaska and Prior Lake. They have good foundations in place and as their numbers continue to grow so will the overall quality and depth of their players.
1235 agree to a point but results always mean something. NSR rankings at older ages are usually meaningful as their is a history of the teams playing each other by that point. Gotsoccer rankings are useless at any age, that I agree on. After hearing all the talk on tis blog about who will and who won't do what at state cup it will be refreshing to see at CASL and Disney a prelim indicator about who can walk the walk and who cannot.
As a parent who is shopping about for a better place for my son (who does not play in any of the clubs listed), I did a bit of research on 12:25's statements. I agree that DR and St. Croix have very good programs, and our daughter, who plays for MTA, is also very happy with her training program there. It looks from the B-ville website like they have 5 trainers in their COE, 4 of whom coach or have coached in their club. The fifth is SW who is a very good trainer. The idea that this is "renting" training (mentioned here a couple of times) appears to be an inaccurate shot. I agree that PSA has over-priced their winter training. I also thought that EP's winter programming was well designed. The fact of the matter is that all of the clubs mentioned are offering training options for their players over the winter months, which is ample proof that Bangu/MTA have raised the bar around here.
Hey, did you see the announcement from MYSA they hired the Hamline coach to be the asst director with Curtis. This is a good deal he is a great coach from what I've seen and heard.
1:02 - walk the walk against who? other mn teams? regionally ranked teams? nationally ranked teams? i looked at the teams going and i do not believe many of them have done much "talking the talk" (maybe that's because none of them are mta).
?? I do not want to take sides here but there has been a lot of talk from EP and SSM U16 and WDB U17 in addition to the usual MTA chatter. Only teams that have been relatively silent are SSM and MTA U18's.
SS who are the horses? I would agree U14 is wide open. MTA U13 odds on favorite based on their state cup win playing up last year. Or has there been player movement?
MYSA Announcement MYSA has hired Andy Coutts as its new Director of Technical Education. Andy has a Master of Arts in Kinesiology from the University of Maryland at College Park and for the past nine years has been the men’s head soccer coach and a physical education instructor at Hamline University in St. Paul. Andy’s first day with MYSA was Monday, December 1, 2008.
How did we get back on talking about MTA? Because of SS's REV bragging? Why start all the 13 and 14 year old angst right now? We were just about to embark on a semi-civilized discussion of other clubs.
U14 MTA Blue favorite. They are not a great team but still are far superior to every other U14 team in the state.
U13 MTA Blue Favorite. Rev is a good team but just don't have the same skill that MTA has from top to bottom. Rev will also have issues scoring on MTA. 4-0 prediction if they play.
SS Rev 13's pounded EP 13's at the fall Harvest Fest (thought you may have known the outcome of that one). If that is the EP team MTA Blue, MTA 12's and Rev should handle them as I believe all three teams are training and playing throughout the winter months. I would say Edina is stronger than EP.
3:11 Blue is very good and may infact defeat Rev girls but 4-0 is a pretty bold prediction when two very credible teams play one another. maybe you are trying to "stir the pot" if so you win. If you really believe that number I would bet you are in the minority of the people who have seen both teams.
I guess my "rented trainers" comment does sound negative. Sorry, just trying to differentiate talented trainers that are with a club vs outside trainers brought in to run a training program. Do think it is a worthwhile differentiation because if the trainers are members of the club that same level of training consistancy follows through all year long. Those trainers are also coaches of teams so the club has good continuity of training format, verbage, and the types of drills. I also believe that no matter how good an outside trainer, the "Club exclusive" trainer has a stronger feeling of "ownership" for the development of the kids because they are likely on that trainers team or one of the other trainers teams. I am also sure that many "rented" trainers are very skilled at their profession. Problem is when the session ends so does the training.
i dont have a dog in the hunt but in my opinion from seeing both rev 13 and MTA 13 (the defending SC champs) they are fairly even. no way it will be 4-0 (more like 1-0). as for u14, that MTA blue team is good but not 'far superior'. if i recall even lowly burnsville tied the play up u14 premier team last year and handled all the other bangu teams they played. again 'far superior' is a stretch. my apologies for continuing the u13/14 dialogue - jc
Please, we had about 12 hours of MTA/SSM free zone here, let's get back to it and double please stop the 13/14 talk we have months to go before play starts.
12:38 Tell me about the Chan/Chaska training program, nothing on their web page. Looks like indeed Prior lake is making an effort based on what is on their web page. 3 sessions (only one hour each) but priced reasonably at 225 for all three. who is doing the training? where are they training? turf or Gymnasiums? I couldn't find much on EP's training. seems to be team oriented not age group training am I correct? EP has a good club and a great demographic to pull from(large population with money) Do they run any age group training?
REV, St Croix and Burnsville seem to have the most comprehensive programs as far as one can tell from this blog and their respective web sites. MTA pretty good too :) Sorry I know this is supposed to be a MTA free zone.
Isn't SCV more akin to MTA than a CC? Basing that on some of the successful older girls teams they have had that pull players from all across the metro ala MTA.
SCV has had a few strong teams over the years that pulled metro wide, ala MTA if you will. Their 85/86 boys won State Cup about 45 years in a row and they were definitely metro wide as have been several of their top older girls teams. I would term SCV a quasi-CC.
Thought we agree that all clubs are soccer clubs including MTA. However Shattuck is a Schoiol with a soccer prgram and that is just fine with me.
No club as far as I know will reject a kid no matter his or her skill based on where they live. Yes majority of players on teams come from a certain area but every club has teams C3 through MRL with players that may live outside that area.
Sorry about the EP comment totally forgot that they played this fall, I actually coached that game and have seen many of the U13 teams and I think EP and Tonka both have solid U13 teams that will do well next year. Edina are solid as well and has a very god GK and we all now how imoprtant that is.
Sorry for starting the U13 U14 stuff. Hopefully I can end it as well =)
On a side note I do not think you can meassure a teams strenghts vs another teams strebghts by looking at how they do in out of state tournaments unless they play the same opponents.
I put more weight on scrimmages between teams or if teams play the same opponents just a side note in follow up to CASL and Disney that is comming up.
What you can learn from such tournaments are what teams are training and playing qualitry games during the winter but not much mnore.
I don't think that you can really rank the best soccer clubs, other than for your personal reasons. What may be the best for one player, may not be the best for another. THAT is the beauty of the MN soccer landscape right now. THAT is what I have been preaching.
For those who know me, you may find this hard to believe.....but I have taken many religion classes in college. I have heard students in everyone of these classes ask the instructor- "what is the best version of the Bible?" Know what answer was given 100% of the time? The one that you'll read.
Reason I gave the above story is that the best soccer club is the one who can give your child what he/she needs to learn to love the game and get them playing. If your child likes the game for the social aspects....then the best club is the one his/her friends play on. If it is for learning skills, it is the club with the trainers whose style your child best responds to. The best trainer in the world may not have a personality/style that "clicks" with your kid....and they never get full advantage of the training.
Not sure what the question is really searching for? The most competitive? The most wins? The best crest (if so, I vote St Croix)?
All the clubs will give your child something, and how much they can give depends on what they require and thier level of commitment.
Here are the top clubs over past 3 years based on State Cup Championships. BNG 34 WNG 8 SCV 7 PSA 5 EDP 4 WDB 3 BHK 3 EDI 2 TNK 2 VLY 2 CDA 2 EAG 2 MU 2 8 clubs @ 1 each
Please ignore 5:41, that same post has been on here multiple times, dusted off today to get the focus back where we're trying to stay away from. Ignore him, he'll go away.
7:09, Maybe you should start your own blog. That way you can delete any MTA/SSM posts. Until then you have no control over what is posted here. Good luck!
I agree with SSM South Campus. The beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I do think it is however far more enjoyable to read this blog when the discussion is around describing, comparingand contrasting the differences of the MN soccer community. ALL clubs do some things better and worse than others deopending on what YOU/ME are looking for. II do like the opportunity to learn what MTA,SSM,PSA,ST Croix,Dakota Rev,Chan Chaska, EP,Edina,Wayzata etc. are doing that is working and what is not working. My kids play for one of the clubs listed above and we are very happy with their development as players. We have zero intention of ever switching clubs but still I am very interested in making sure our club leadership is aware of what others are doing that works,and what doesn't work. I am of the belief that MN soccer is on the upswing. Teams/Clubs training year around having success out of state etc. "A rising tide lifts all ships"
7:13 Actually, you goobers have your own blog written nearly daily by your leader. You , with membership, can go on there and read for hours of the great coaching exploits, I, me, and my are the three most used words on it. Enjoy!
7:35 = same jealous MA hater with same old shots. My God, get over him already, it'll be good for you. As for the I, me, and my, isn't it his blog that he's writing about his views, his teams, and with his thoughts. You want him to write in 3rd person?
This is the "MN FUTBOL BLOG" and is open to all who are involved in Minnesota futbol. If some body wants to start a blog that excludes MTA and SSM that is their prerogative. Until then all should feel free to post whatever they wish as long as it's in good taste given that many youth players visit this site.
8:30 Relax, I think the intent of the posters was to get away from the acrimonious stuff posted by the pro and anti mta folks, why do you suppose anyone would listen to the posts suggesting exclusion anyways? There was about one day of club stuff here but we're right back at it today.
Any suggestions on good out of state tournaments within driving distance 6-7 hours or less in March and April? Even better tournaments that are not mainly made up of MN teams =)
Frankly, the good and bad posts all create something I relish-- a healthy dialog. MTA is not right all the time, it is not perfect, but right now, they are the standard bearer in MN soccer. SSM has added another dimension to MN soccer to push MTA to be better. I, for one, do very strongly believe that all of this competition between MTA and SSM has not gotten any "solid" CC caught in their crossfire; but, rather has helped to make all of the rersponsive CC's much better for their players. The club I'm involved with sees a tremendous opportunity for it's players as we are responding to all of this by improving our product. We will have record numbers in our travel program in 2009, and, though I'd rather not say who we are, the excitement being generated at our club will result in a great environment for our players. Will we turnout a lot of "high-end" players in the future? We always have, they just didn't finish their club careers at our CC.
Thanks to both Bangu/SSM for awakening our club heirarchy, you have helped us immensely!
My DD and I watched the Inferno scrimmage a boys team while waiting for her camp to start.
We were shocked at how fast these teams played, their tactics and passing.
I am sure it motivated her a bit during her camp. It is a lot easier to teach the beautiful game when the players get a chance to see it played at a higher level.
The ability to watch a good soccer match up close (Gophs, MIAC, premiere, HS, Lightning) will help MN continue to raise the level of youth soccer.
The Inferno is a very good team. They have an excellent group of atheletes and a fantastic coach, one of our state's best. Thanks for your kind words 11:32
7:35am, lol up and hating early aren't we? I agree with the follow up poster. GET OVER MA. He is clearly one of our state's most gifted soccer educators and has, along with many other people of his generation, helped elevate MN soccer. Your petty shots at him speak volumes of your envy, inferiority complex, or likely both.
I agree with the Inferno being a great team for MN. Which boys team were they playing? Lots of top girls teams going this route in recent history though playing teams of the same age group after the u13 year in my experience hasn't led to equal contests due to the boys superior athleticism. Were they playing a young team or does the athleticism even out at the u17 age group?
1:43 Chill out, I agree 7:35 was out of line , when you then come on and spew the vile too it cheapens your admonitions of 7:35 types. My experience on here shows if noone takes the bait from EITHER side those types go away.
4-0 mta 13 blue over Dakota rev? That is more than a bit optimistic. I think it's silly to make crazy predictions but am convinced it will be a little closer than 4-0. The rev team got better last season as the summer wore on and it appeared the mta team was faltering at the end.
lmao 5:59 Another MTHater (yes I've just coined a new word for you all) chiming in with all the intelligence that has come to represent many of the people like you on this blog. Yes, RYSA will rue the day they brought PDL soccer to Rochester. Their 3,800 kids will hate watching some of the top Minnesota collegiate players playing down in their backyard a dozen times each summer, hate the players working with them in their community, and hate watching division rivalries against the 2005 and 2008 PDL champs. That sucks for them. What were they thinking?
MTHaters abound, no doubt about it. Good word but someone already coined MAters. We'll see which one sticks. They are just as entitled to speak up as anyone else is.
Great opportunity for RYSA. Affluent market, no other summer sports draw from what I can tell, and the second or third largest youth soccer club in the state. NC is a great choice as a coach. Thunder also get another piece to their developmental pyramid. What's missing? US Soccer Development Academy. Solid by the Thunder, good for them.
10:17, tell us all what is bad about the level of MN soccer improving (I must be an idiot as well as I think the USSF program would raise the level of play)? On a sidenote, my boy plays for neither of those programs.
USSF academy at SSM will be a good thing run by people of integrity with the interests of the kids first. Putting it at MTA with the people there will be a step backwards, I hope there is some effort by USSF to do a more thorough investigation of the local soccer community and see how they would be an abysmal choice for this.
1127 you can certainly question the motivation for either MTA and SSM. SSM admits it is about increasing enrollment and making the school more profitable. I would think MTA has similar goals. If the kids are getting what they want, what difference does it make?
11:28 - maybe so, but I don't really recall that much about those two specific teams (EP & WDB). 80% of this thread seems to revolve around in some shape or form MTA.
There is more about MTA in general than anything else. Those two teams seem to post more than any other single teams though, although I concede it is often about how they are better than MTA (or SSM in some cases). That usually starts the roller coaster again.
11:27, Please share with us what an investigation of MTA would turn up? I'm sure you have some factual info you can share. What would USSF uncover? That MTA gets the top players together on their teams? GASP! That the top club in the state recruits? GASP! Bet that doesn't happen with any other USSF clubs! It's hard to take your moronic post as being serious. It's a shame some folks just can't see the forest for the trees.
No bone to pick, they are a poor choice for the USSF program. SSM offers a unique situation not for all kids. Giving this program to mta for the rest here in the metro area is a mistake, no I'm not a hater, there is too much damage a very few idiots there have done and in my opinion there are better ways and certainly better clubs here to get the academy going and get the right kids to participate.
Goober go back and read. investigation of local soccer community not mta. maybe investigation was wrong word the idea being ussf should get an idea of the atmosphere here poisened by a few there.
11:48, Specifically what "damage have a very few idiots" done. Are these "idiots" from the boys program? The girls program? The Thunder honchos? It's easy to throw about allegations with nothing to back it up. Anyone with a "bone to pick" can anonymously post on this blog. Give us some specifics to the damage done as to why MTA shouldn't be admitted to USSF Academy.
Can someone share the benefits / reasoning of having a PDL team in Rochester versus "the cities"? I'm not getting the location unless it was a "here or nothing" kind of deal. Isn't the PDL basically a U23 league? Unless the coaches are planning on recruiting from outside the state... I don't see a lot of local guys commuting to Rochester all summer. It's very possible I'm missing something so please weigh in.
Blackhawks MU both good choices due to central locations and both strong clubs on boys side. St Croix, Eden Prairie, Tonka, PSA all would be better choices for academy. IMO. I'm not looking to get screamed at by any zealots from either side, just discussion.
What is a goober? Thought Bangu no longer existed.
Rochester Thunder... interesting. Wonder what MYSA thinks about this. MA is a Roch native and was undoubtedly spearheading this effort - and we all know what some people at MYSA think about MA's work. Also, NC, a fantastic choice as a coach for this team, just left MYSA after being recently hired last year. Regardless, awesome summer opportunity for top level MN college-ase boys who play outside of MN at DI schools. Great opportunity for the MIAC coaches/players as well to rally behind the Thunder.
1:15, The USSF Academy looks at history of success.
Look around the country at the clubs chosen for the Academy. They are always the very top clubs in the state. Not clubs who win 1 state cup title every once in a while.
The USSF Academy knows who the top coaches and top clubs are and will always pick the cream of the crop based on results.
They aren't going to change because of hurt feelings at a few community clubs.
Why in your opinion would the clubs you noted be better options than MTA and SSM?
1:15 - I've got nothing against any of the clubs you've mentioned, but I believe 1:56 is probably correct in his assessment. MTA has a much stronger history of success (9 boys state cup titles over the last three years) and right or wrong that will always be a determining factor.
I know of No club (any sport) who has enjoyed the success that MTA/Bangu has achieved over the past several years that is so despised by the general population of the competing teams. I understand that it is often lonely at the top and that jealousy from familys who didn't make a team are likely to exist to some degree but the distain and lack of respect that is so prevelant when referencing this particular group itleads me to believe that they (MTA) neads to look in the mirror and Identify the reasons for this reaction so many have and figure out how to exist and ultimately thrive without being so hated. I believe the "free agency" of players that is allowed in soccer is one of the major differences when contrasting MTA to other top programs. We all know that soccer has the loosest borders of any sport, most other sports are governed by the athletic associations of the local high schools and the kids that play for them are required to live within those boundries. The other difference is when MTA recruits and a player is removed from another team , that player is often playing against their old team . In Basketball, baseball etc. when a player opts for another option they usually are on more of a "select" team that plays other "select" teams largely from other states or districts. MTA has an image problem with the soccer community in general for these and other reasons. Overzealous parents and coaches , bad mouthing the "limited opportunities" the CC's can offer, High prices , higher promises etc. Truth is the MTA/Bangu system has produced some terrific winning records on the field. Too bad they have been such a failure to the system off the field. A winner who can be classy in winning is so much more fun to support.
2:55 - I commend you on a well thought out and written post. You have hit on many points in a clear manner.
I guess the big question is what would you like to see them do (what behavior would you like to see them change)?
Unfortunately, IMO in many people's minds the only way for them to reduce the animosity is not to develop the teams that they do (which would reduce the CC backlash and most likely would also diminish their successes/accomplishments). That direction is also pretty much against everything they are striving to achieve.
For anyone out there, what should they do to touch on 2:55's thoughts of being able to thrive without being so hated?
3:08 It's me 2:55. I think they should clearly define what and who they want to be. An elite soccer club with one top regional team or a competing soccer club with all of the other community based clubs that recruits away from them and then plays against those same teams. I would focus on the Blue teams and forget about the white, green and black level squads. It is pointless to have some of the very poor MTA/Bangu teams if they are of poor quality. I realize some of the lower level teams are needed for financial reasons and this is a legitimate issue for a for profit club.
I also think the MTA coaches and recruiters should tone it down a bit. I have personally had more negative issues with Bangu coaches than those of any other club. Please do not interpret my comments to be inclusive of all Bangu/MTA coaches I remember a couple situations that I am confident the MTA leadership would have been very proud of how their coaches handled tough situations, but honestly I have seen more negatives with this group than any other club. They also need a strict parent code of conduct. They, due to the nature of the club will attract some very, what should we call them,,,Passionate parents. These parents need to be reeled in a bit( I know this is not easy) I have been coaching and have kids involved in traveling soccer for 6 years now so although many have seen more I an not completely green at this. Thats what I would do for starters.
2:55, Once again someone posts generalizations while knocking MTA/Bangu. Would someone please give a specific example of what they've done that is causing the hard feelings? We're all anonymous here so don't be bashful in pointing out specifics. It sounds more like jealousy of their success than actual issues that are causing the acrimony. If it just boils down to the top players gravitating to top teams that is hardly the cause for all this animousity. I'd like to hear some specifics.
3:27, 3:08 here. I would agree with many of your comments. Blue team definitely, hard to knock the successes of some of the lower aged white teams, but wean out of them as the kids get older. Not sure how to accomplish not competing with the community based clubs since to be a regional team one of the starting blocks is winning State Cup (if the USSF Adademy program kicks in this will become a mute point). I agree they should focus on the region, and their Academy program might be decreasing some of the recruiting as many kids are already there, just not sure how you stop the influx of talent from the other clubs (which is as much driven by the "passionate parents" - great term, as it is by MTA).
I for one do not accept your premise. I had a DD play for Bangu and found that they were good to play for and have found since that they are good to play against. One bad apple and any organization gets painted with a broad brush. The anomosity you reference is fostered/nurtured by the many anons on this website nothing more. Take a good look arond during your soccer experiences away from this blog and you will find many more positive relationships with all clubs. We left simply because it was to much money and to much travel for a white team player. She is doing well and still retains her friendships from her former teamates.
SSM U18 lose 2-1 to Virginia Rush #33R1 WDB U17 win 5-0 over Central Delaware #22R1
Surprising result for SSM, but at U18 not much to prove. Likely to bounce back in next two games. WDB flight placement is puzzling, they have enough of a track record to merit more respect IMO. Disappointing for these two teams to be placed in low flights.
All the best U17 teams are placed in their national league "red bull" flights. Same is true at 15 and 16. Not many good teams left after that. That is the negative to traveling to these tournaments. Big money for poor competition.
Would be interesting to see why the players left or never attended their local clubs and went to the MTA. We left the local CC because there was very limited winter training and the parent coaches just didn't spend any time on foot skills. These problems have been recitified to some extent several years later, but once players/parents leave a team they are reluctant to come back. (could probably do a blog on this point alone).
I think maybe that the CCs need to admit that there is a problem with the CC/MTA relationship and that with most problems - both sides need to take some ownership.
MTA could not recruit if they did not offer something that the CC couldn't. Saying that it is all snake oil and the the MTA parents are egotistic and living through their kids isn't going to bring about an answer. Although I'm sure it will get a response. : ). But not from me.
This has been a very intelligent last few blogs - hope it stays that way.
You have to be kidding. SSM lost to a team ranked #33 in their region.SSM has all those D1 recruits and a future all american going to UCLA. I don't believe it.
SSM should be beating a team like that 3-0. How the heck do you recruit nationally and let some scrub team beat you. I still don't believe it.
Maybe if you were at the game and watching what the teams goals were in approaching a showcase tournament, instead of sitting at your keyboard getting fat, you might understand.
There is no excuse for SSM to lose to a lousy team like that. All of SSM's players have already committed (see above). Their benchers should have been able to beat them. Losing to a team like that is a disgrace. Quit the excuses.
Here is one specific that you ask for. A Bangu parent (fooloishly I might add) stated to me during the high school season that my daughter should try out for MTA and could maybe make her own daughter's MTA team. She did this with a "snottish" tone. Little does this idiot women know that my daughter has been recruited by Bangu for three years to actually play on a team at a higher level than her own daughter. She has also turned down opportunities (several) to "guest" in certain showcases around the country numerous times in those same three years, some with older Bangu teams. This, all because her daughter plays for a very weak Bangu team and my poor daughter doesn't. Oh, did I add that my daughters team annually beats her daughters team. This doesn't make me angry, it actually amuses my daughter and myself. Finally, her daughter "might" get to play at a very weak D-3 school at best, and the "she should try out for MTA" player, my daughter, is being recruited by several higher level D-1 schools. The whole thing might make me angry if I didn't realize this stupid mom is spending double what I am to be seen at some schlock showcase where a major college is considered Albion College of East Cabool, TX or wherever. these are the kind of stupid poorly placed insults that are thrown around by stupid MTA White parents. Get a clue parents. Just because you wear a pin stripe suit doesn't mean you are a successful person--same with the powder blue.
All of that said, most of the MTA heirarchy are good people trying to improve soccer in MN and I respect most of them.
837 and others. SSM is a U18 team. Whether they win or lose in a tournament, especially showcase ones, is no longer of any consequence to them. They are already accepted (or not) into all the events they wish to participate in this year. Next year they are off to college. All that would really matter to them for results is state cup, and even that is not as significant anymore with college looming. If you want to find significance at CASL do it with the younger teams. And no I am not affiliated in any way with SSM. Also I would guess you did not even see the game to have any idea on how it went.
Actually, no I am very amused. As I said many times before, I have enjoyed watching the current 18 Blues. The 18 Whites are wannabees. The 17 Blues are wannabees, as for the 17 Whites--sad. The 16 Blues are a very solid team indeed, but again, the Whites... The 15 Blues are already gaining a reputation as a very solid team, but the whites and below... Anyone can get the drift, MTA needs a feeder program, which is the sole existence for the Whites and below. I believe MA and MC and some of the others are decent guys just trying to do their job. The real problem lies with the wannabee parents. For the most part parents of Blue players are modest, but too many parents of white team and below are really out to lunch as for where they believe their kids are headed in soccer after HS. BTW, 9:06, what type of team does you player play on? A white?
Were any of you at the games today in Raleigh to see the "embarrassment" you describe? I was there. All I can tell you is: 1) the U18s played with heart, but just couldn't get it done this morning. They DID come back in thier next game (one hour later) to "redeem" themselves.
2)There were BIG TIME D-1 Coaches all over. Just driving in, we counted nearly 20 Coaches just getting to our parking spot. How many did your player have watching him/her while they sat in Geometry class today?
EastSider- I would hardly call any of the Rush family of Soccer Clubs chumps. The particular one that you describe as a chump happens to be a USSF Developmental Academy on the boys' side. They don't give these to "chump" community clubs (your words).
FYI to whoever above mentioned that the National Red Bull League is watering down the field-- The National League and Red Bull League are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEAGUES.
Lastly, I'd like to go on record now to say that I would personally appreciate it if regardless of results tomorrow-- there not be negative talk regarding the SSM teams. Suffice it to say that there was a tragedy back in Faribault tonight, and the players are aware of the situation and are in a very emotional state. I am not sure how they will respond on the field, but am certain that thier minds will be elsewhere tomorrow. Please respect this situation by acting like human beings. Thank you, sincerely.
944 no I don't. MTA and SSM attacks come from the same source. I am sure though that you would love to see them tear each other apart to help you as your post indicates. Why would SSM make MTA nervous? The "possessions" as you like to call them are never going to attend a boarding school in large numbers, particularly on the girls side.
SSM U18 4-2 win over Freestate Sharks (MD) Unranked
Todays Games: SSM 18 v Ohio Elite Gold Unranked WDB 17 v Classics Elite #31 R3 EP 16 v Dynamo (IN) Unranked EP 16 v Dauphin (PA) #17 R1 SSM 16 v Chantilly Courage (VA) Unranked SSM 16 v Wilson Explosion (NC) Unranked
SSMSC Sorry if I worded my previous pst incorrectly, I forgot the "and" between national league and "red bull". Yes the Red Bull and National League are different leagues, AND BOTH ARE AT CASL THUS WATERING DOWN THE COMPETITION IN THE OTHER FLIGHTS! Does that satisfy you or are you still feeling retentive?
College commitments should kick into high gear over next 2 months after showcases. U18's are done and most of the top U17's have verballed, but there will be a lot of U17's as well as some U16's committing soon.
2009's - pretty much all done. 2010's - bigger programs are wrapping up, still lots more to come 2011's - there might be a couple of kids who commit, but 98% won't commit until they are juniors.
I believe at the U16 level there is a bit of playoff structure that matches bracket winners, runner ups, etc... against each other (1st place bracket "A" vs. 1st place bracket "B", etc....).
At U17 and U18 it is pretty much you play your three games and go home.
11:54- SSM U16 score posted incorrectly on site. Actual score was 1-1. Second game vs. Wilson was a complete joke and SSM lost 2-1. Very rarely will you hear me say this (as I am a certified official as well), but the officiating has been absolutely attrocious. First game nearly 20 fouls called on SSM, 2 against Chantilly. Bad enough that the Chantilly parents noticed as well. Second game was absolutely taken away by center ref. I don't expect anyone to believe this, but to give you an idea the AR came to our coach after the game and suggested that he report the officiating to the tournament, because it definately affected the outcome. He was going to report it as well. We watched Chantilly play Wilson, Wilson was down 4-0 at half. That should tell you something?
Our girls are playing fairly well, but just not getting any "breaks". All of us have experienced this at some time....you just expect more from the officiating at a tournament like this?
WDB wins 4-0, not 3-0 as someone reported earlier.
SSM 18 v Ohio Elite Gold Unranked WDB 17 v Classics Elite #31 R3 W 4-0 EP 16 v Dynamo (IN) Unranked W 3-0 EP 16 v Dauphin (PA) #17 R1 SSM 16 v Chantilly Courage (VA) Unranked L 3-1 SSM 16 v Wilson Explosion (NC) Unranked L 2-1
SSM 18 v Ohio Elite Gold Unranked W 1-0 WDB 17 v Classics Elite #31 R3 W 4-0 EP 16 v Dynamo (IN) Unranked W 3-0 EP 16 v Dauphin (PA) #17 R1 D 1-1 SSM 16 v Chantilly Courage (VA) Unranked D 1-1 SSM 16 v Wilson Explosion (NC) Unranked L 2-1
Advantage Minnesota negated by homer refs. I am curious to see wht the impression of the EP U16s was of the officiating down here this weekend. Have only watched one game out of 7 that had decent, non-one sided officiating.
9:42- While you may be right, I have a USSF referee badge....and I don't remember anywhere in the course where it mentioned that I should play a part in the outcome of matches?
All I said was that I was curious to see what the EP folks had to say. Are you affiliated with the EP U16s? If not, who asked you?
By the way, CASL was a Showcase, not a tournament. SSM 18s played alot of the players that have not committed or that are younger on the U18 team. The way its suppose to be handled. All players for SSM played well this weekend. I handed out over 60 team profiles this weekend. Great trip considering what happened back at Shattuck!!
10s Dad
ps. Not trying to start anything, but the word is getting out about Shattuck. Most coaches I handed profiles told me, yea, Iv heard of Shattuck, its the school up in MN, how does your player like it etc etc..some told me that they really liked what the team was trying to do on the field.
Looks like 10's DAD decided to "start something" A little self promotion going on here I think. If I were a betting Man I would say 10's Dad found it necessary to respond to his own post in an effort of some need he feels to self promote SSM. Just a hunch but isn't it odd that we had no posts for hours prior too the first post, then a quick follow upwithin about the time it would take to type his own response, then again no posts up to current.
Here they are you be the judge.
"ps. Not trying to start anything, but the word is getting out about Shattuck. Most coaches I handed profiles told me, yea, Iv heard of Shattuck, its the school up in MN, how does your player like it etc etc..some told me that they really liked what the team was trying to do on the field.
7/12/08 8:29 PM"
followed by: "That's good news coaches are familiar with the SSM program. Good to get Minnesota soccer the recognition around the country, thanks for the update.
LOL I was wondering same thing. I support SSM and what they are doing and agree with 10 dad post. Can you imagine though if someone had made a post like that or 849 and substituted the letters MTA for SSM? This blog would have erupted!
PLEASE!! I dont have to promote anything. This youth club stuff is all but done for us. Its all about prepping for the next journey. I was given the task of handing out the team profiles, which I did, and had alot of nice conversations with some of the coaches watching. Shared with them what we have been thru at Shattuck, alot of them had alot of questions about it. What, do you think I would lie to these coaches on the sidelines?? Yea, dont answer that. We could really care less on win/lose records. That includes State Cup! Why worry about things that are not in your control anyway. And, beleive it or not, Im not really on this site all that much anyway. I spend more time on the Gophers thread than this MRL thread. The conversations are a bit more civil over there.
Clearly you Aren't on this blog that much ,,,, It took you all of 29 minutes to respond to the post of which probably ten minutes were typing. Its great to be proud of your team, I have no problem with that. Don't care about winning?? I do have a problem with any team/organization that wants to put out competitive teams that doesn't care about winning especially once they get to the ages of the SSM teams (refering to the 16's and 18's) I understand development and Showcasing kids for college etc. but not caring about wins and loses seems a bit ingenuinous.
Winning matters at 15-16 because it determines the recognition your team/club gets and what tournaments you will be accepted into and what flight you will be in. At 17-18 it becomes less and less important as the die is already cast.
10:22 - Did you mean disingenuous? I realize that winning is more important to you than a decent education, but still, if you are going to use a word with more than two syllables, you should probably look it up first.
10:23 - Ever hear of development through decent competition? That is something that State Cup offers. In fact, the best reason to want to win State Cup is to get even more competition at regionals. Either way, its about development.
Heard about the scandal and suicide down at SSM within the lacrosse program. Do you see this affecting the soccer programs? Could happen anywhere and prep schools are not unique here, but tough experience for the kids.
11:09- Honestly, what do you think? The student population is very small, and the faculty member was Director of Residential Life and lived on campus in one of the dorms. So, if someone your child deals with on an almost daily basis decides to commit suicide IN YOUR SCHOOL with the students present.... would it have any effect on the student body? I can tell you that Friday night was a very long night for the U16 girls' soccer team in Raleigh.
One other thing, 11:09-- I don't know that anyone has proof of "scandal" so how about we leave that genie in the bottle until more concrete information is given out? Have some respect for the people involved....both the dead and living?
10:42 Yes, my bad, my typing got ahead of my low level brain function I did mean DIS ingenuouos. Thank you for pointing it out.
I still think you should try to win once you step out on the field. Of course development is critical but learning to have a winning attitude is part of the developmental process. If we (parents/coaches) are trying to develop athletes as well as future contributing members to society I would say creating a winning enviornment would be very important part of the development of any participant. I still believe (contrary to the recent business headlines about bailouts etc) that learning to win the right way will benefit the kids long term. The kids need to know that they can control thier own destiny and that the need to finish strong and come out ahead is the expectation.
Both winning and losing are contagious (someone may need to check my spelling on that one) and the difference between the two is often between the ears.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe that even the people who try and stir the pot here aren't in-human enough to try and use the recent events to cause problems. I just wanted to keep things on a factual level at this point to protect everyone involved. I don't think 11:09 has anything to be "ashamed of", just asking to keep the inuendo out of the conversation. That's all.
To highlight again the idiocy of the gotsoccer ranking system. EP received 580 points for going 3-0-1 in a relatively weak flight. Sting received 0 points for going 2-0-1 in their very difficult Red Bull flight. Not trying to pick on EP here, they played well against some decent teams. Just pointing out how silly the gotsoccer ranking system is.
reading 705's post it appears he/she is (rightfully) criticizing the got soccer ranking system and goes out of the way to congratulate EP. Relax EP parents. I think the point is that the Sting team had as good a record as EP against much better teams and received far less gotsoccer points. Again, relax EP parents.
2,440 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1600 of 2440 Newer› Newest»MTA can call their 18 Blue Girls Elite and no one will complain. They (for now) can call their 16 Blues elite and no one will complain. 15's and down shouldn't (yet) be called elite for any MN club. As for their 17 Blue Girls being called elite and their white teams at 18, 17 and 16 being called elite, you've got to be kidding!
My suggestion is for MTA to change their white teams at the older ages (16-18) to (development) status and a lot of the angst will go away.
As for SSM, they are what they are, a damn good product that produces very good players at U-18, with a very good "development" squad at U-16. Not every player at Shattuck will become elite, but 10-15 hours a week on the pitch will certainly help. My daughter would have been there if she didn't have access to a great CC coach here in the TC and our family could handle her being away at 14-18 years of age.
Finally, some dialog. I get the whole elite superiority complex 6:52. I don't think it is pervasive through the entire directorship (or dictatorship) there, but a few bad apples... Just like in any other club.
8:23, did you read R2R? Very similar thinking. This is from the blogs, brits, etc post:
Criticism #2 We believe that there should be an Elite Club in town, but that club should have only 1 team at each gender at the U13+ age groups and should leave the player development of the younger ages to the community clubs.
I'll take this one in two parts.
First part, I can respect the thought of one true elite team for our state per age group/gender. People look at our second teams as purely revenue generating teams, believing that there are many other clubs out there who can offer a similar training environment to what MTA offers these teams. However, I have also seen player movement from our White teams to our Blue teams, as well as many Blue team players who did not make the Blue team opt to stay with the club, believing in what we offer, although they were now playing with a second team. It is difficult to predict how players' bodies will develop in their teen years and as I preach each August at tryouts, Blue team one year does not mean Blue team the next.
As for being a revenue generating source for the club, of course they are. So are our Blue teams. So are any teams for any club. To say that these White teams are in place for that sole purpose doesn't hold much weight with me at all. Part of the problem is the use of the "elite" word itself. We'd probably be better off calling our Blue team MTA Elite teams, and our White teams MTA Something else. This is not demeaning our White teams by any means as these families should be here not for the name but for the services. I would hope MTA families are here for the program, not for the team they play on.
(End R2R rant)
There are some people with MTA who see things from a "hater's" perspective as well.
As for SSM being elite, probably more so than MTA, wouldn't you think? Maybe not every player but as a whole program they are closer to the word than anyone else here. In the end elite is just a marketing term used by the clubs to reel in parents. Who is to blame more then, the marketors or the marketees?
Player movemment from White to Blue is minimal at best. Brown nosed parents are what eventually make Blue team players in the Bangu MTA system.
I coach a 9th grade girls basketball team at a HS famous for top teams. I deal with parents all the time who think their daughter should be a starter or get more PT. We have issues with MSHL just like everybody else. Politics is part of every youth sport.It's not going to change any time soon.
vsi vaš futbol tref ste drek
823 I would agree with much of what you say. I simply don't understand the need to use the word elite in any way. Elite can mean different things in different areas. For example, the MTA U18 girls team has easily been the best and most successful team at the regional and national level the state has produced in the past 5 years. Some younger teams may eventually surpass them but that is future. I know that may change with player losses this year but as of now I don't think anyone would argue that point. Does that make them elite? Maybe in MN but there are teams in Region 2 that outclass them and more across the nation. Elite? Not on the national scene. MTA just refer to your teams as Blue and White. Let your play show whether or not your team should be called elite. You may annoy a few less people.
svoj prijatelj was ki je videti v tresk Acedemy čas bitje mena študent šele raziskovanje ter zagledati tresk je slab sporočilo.
10:03:
You couldn't have said it any better. I wholeheartedly agree.
10:00 agree. Elite is not a term that I would apply to MTA or SSM at this time.
i can't believe that folks would spend so much time being concerned with youth soccer club terminology. seriously people, you must have better things to do....
8:05-We could golf, but it's too cold for that.
8:05 What exactly do you mean by terminology? Define youth soccer too for the sake of our discussion.
SSM doesnt use the term 'Elite'. Also, what does Academy really mean? MTA? SSM is a true academy. I think academy is a catch word if you ask me for clubs to use??
So what is a "true academy"? Where did you find the definition?
Blogging is fun, that's why I do it.
YD, like your style man and respect your search for dialog in a time of uncharted territory in MN youth soccer.
As far as marketing goes, I'd throw out there that all clubs do it. Many clubs boast of providing the best soccer development opportunity out there. Just browse through local soccer club websites and see for yourself. Woodbury announces multiple MRL teams, Burnsville is proud of their relationship with Coerver, PSA brags about 3,000 players and their BEST soccer academy, Blackhawks have Tony Sanneh on the front page of their site to show that they've development US National Team players. The list goes on. I believe the "hate" comes about due to competition for top players by clubs who feel that they are capable of adequately handling the development of high caliber players, and now that Bangu and Wings have merged and have the backing and name of the pro team in town, others can't compete with that. It seems unfair that the rich have gotten apparently richer and no one likes to think that others think they are inferior in some way. Just my take on it.
Do SSM and MTA have idiots in their programs? Sure they do. Do they have coaches who act in unethical ways and recruit with no regard for MYSA's brilliant recruiting policy? Yes. But all other clubs have the same.
In the end parents will vote with their feet and their check books. Time will tell if "elite" type programs will take long term hold in our state. Until then, it seems like wasted breath on both sides of the argument to get worked up. People believe in what they are doing and what they offer. End of story. Everyone has a right to make the cases known and you can't beat the entertainment dollar of visiting this site every now and again, but come on. All this site really does is fuel the distrust and angst in our little soccer world. I don't really want this site to go away but it probably would be best for the state of the game in MN.
Anyone else sick of talking elite though? How about a discussion on the top five local community clubs NOT including MTA. Here's mine.
Girls
EP
Woodbury
Edina
Wayzata
PSA
Boys
PSA
MU
St Croix
EP
Blackhawks
Up and Coming Clubs
Chan Chaska
Coon Rapids
Dakota Rev
Burnsville
Blaine
I can give rational later if people decide to pick this up. Clearly in my book the south and north districts are behind with the south still way ahead of the north.
And take a moniker for this one so that we can track responses and filter through all the anon hate.
I agree with 8:54 SSM is the only true academy we have in Mn. The rest use the term for marketing purposes.
What is the definition of a true academy? Who came up with the definition?
Top 5 Boys Clubs
Valley
Blackhawks
St. Croix
Eden Prairie
Lakeville
Top 5 Girls
Woodbury
Wayzata
PSA
Burnsville
St. Croix
no particular order
Looks like Valley has decided to have additional tryouts as well, for Girls U16C2 and Boys U14C3.
Will be interesting to see if this will be common practice in the future.
Isn't that a violation of MYSA rules as the SSM person stated earlier?
9:17..look it up
Dictionary: academy (ə-kăd'ə-mē)
Home > Library > Literature & Language > Dictionaryn., pl. -mies.
A school for special instruction.
A secondary or college-preparatory school, especially a private one.
The academic community; academe:
Higher education in general. Used with the.
A society of scholars, scientists, or artists.
Academy
Plato's school for advanced education and the first institutional school of philosophy.
Platonism.
The disciples of Plato.
Exactly as I thought. No mention whatsoever of what constitutes a soccer academy.
what were you expecting to find? a picture of a mta logo next to the definition?
actually the "school for special instruction" would allow any specific training program of any sport to technically be called an "academy". there are tennis academies, basketball academies, golf academies, etc.... scattered all over the place.
exactly, the definition can be whatever you want it to be.
It's a marketing tool that Bangu used to their benefit and now others are looking to capitalize on. It's the best thing around... until something better comes along.
Like now we can have a Double Academy.
9:13 Thanks for trying to change the subject. When you say best CC's what is your basis of measurement? Winning teams, numbers of players, winter training programs, qualified coaching, lowest cost,nicest fields etc ??? My measurement would be based on developmental programs the club has first and winning records second followed by all of the other issues such as cost. I see some clubs mentioned that I think fall short on the developmental side in yours and the other post ranking clubs. Give me your criteria and I will give my opinion.
Since we are into defining things, we might want to define "CC". Many "CC's" have teams with players from all over the metro. Or it might be easier to go with the best non-MTA route of other clubs (9:13 included Blackhawks, St. Croix which are not generally considered as CC's).
ST PAUL Blackhawks, St Croix is a general are which I guess could be defined as a Community. St Croix is like Dakota Rev and North Metro , less of a city/community club and more of an area/community Club. I also think all CC's have some outside the area/city players on some of their teams but are predominantly from one geographic territory.
Let's just use the term soccer club. Without wanting to start another uproar here, CC has been morphed into a perjorative term. We probably all can agree any club making the top 5 list will be inclusive of kids from surrounding communities.
80-90% of blackhawks and St croix players come from st. paul and the stillwater area respectively...based on the numbers, these clubs would generally be considered ccs by all who bash such clubs on this blog.
80-90% of blackhawks and St croix players come from st. paul and the stillwater area respectively...based on the numbers, these clubs would generally be considered ccs by all who bash such clubs on this blog.
so we will call all clubs "soccer clubs" seems to be reasonable to me in light of the posts above.
agreed....
so which ones are the best and why (and this is a no ssm/mta blog zone).....
"Community club" isn't a derogatory term in my book.
I think too many people are making too big of a deal on this issue.
THERE ARE ACADEMICS &
THERE ARE ATHLETICS
THESE WHO STRIVE FOR MORE ARE GETTING MORE
PRACTICES , DRILLS, GAMES ...
IT'S GOOD
BUT, ITS AN ATHLETAMY
(THERE MUST BE A BETTER WORD)
I THINK ACADEMY WOULD IMPLY MORE
READING , VIEWING, DISCUSSION & PHILOSOPHY ABOUT THE TOPIC , HERE OBVIOUSLY SOCCER
& OTHER ASPECTS LIKE COACHING , REFFING
& HELPING WITH FESTIVALS,TOURNEYS OR PREPPING THE FIELD
SO, AFTER THEIR PLAYING DAYS, THEY CAN BETTER HELP THE NEXT GROUPS THAT COME AFTER
BE IT SIBLINGS , CAMPS OR THEIR OWN KIDS
the lack of activity on this thread pretty much confirms that it is populated by folks who are either pro/anti MTA and SSM as all other topics go stale. kind of sad when you come to think about it.
Top 5 Boys Clubs
Minneapolis United
Blackhawks
St. Croix
Eden Prairie
Valley United
Top 5 Girls
Woodbury
Wayzata
PSA
Burnsville
St. Croix
Fairly the same as 10:38 yesterday.
And these are not in rank order
8:41 I would postulate that when the thread went away from MTA talk it quieted down, telling us that the "controversy" regarding them is stirred up by themselves quite often on here. Then they get on and play the victim. I would be happy to see more intelligent talk here. Another month and we can start the State Cup prognostications.
9:54 - unfortunately I believe most of your post proves out 8:41's comments.
This weekend will tell us about some of the contenders strength.
what's going on this weekend?
I am a little slow on keeping up with this blog. what are the projections for MN teams performance in MRL? It looks like there are a few Premier Division teams and a decent number of First division (primarily girls). Are any teams going to be regionally competitive?
CASL is this weekend. And Im sure some of these know-it-all's can tell how good a team is or going to be by reading a box score, or better yet, reading scores only on the website.
how shallow
Ranking clubs as "best" is all in the eyes of the beholder. I can tell you I think the club my daughters are involved with is the best. So I hold a positive Bias towards that Club. I see several of the girls clubs listed reflecting what I believe is the success of a few very good teams more than a good club system to develop players. I think clearly St Croix and Burnsville are my winners from your list of girls clubs. Both have club sponsored age group training that are extensive enough to get results. St Croix the better of the two in my mind (14 week session with club trainers) Burnsville had low numbers (acording to the numbers posted on their web site) Under 100 kids and 40 ages 6-8. Burnsville has good quality trainers, but not Burnsville trainers, rather rented trainers from Coerver. I prefer quality club trainers JMO.
PSA, WYZ,have short/expensive 6 week programs,again according to their web sites.
Woodbury seems to be focused on training tied to specific teams, which is great for those teams but likely inconsistant for all in the club.
All critisism set aside. The great news is that so many of the MN Clubs are moving to a formalized winter training program. Congrats to all clubs who are making an effort to develop players/teams in the "offseason"
I guess I assumed when people think "top" club it would be relative to the development programs that they offer rather than the results of their teams.
I also agree about the CC perception. Though I do think some who were branded as CC people took offense to the branding and blew up the anti-CC sentiments coming from the so called elite programs, soccer clubs is probably a better term. Thus I have changed my moniker :-)
Wow 1215, are you expecting your team to do poorly?
SC Top5 I agree that is why I question some of the choices of 9:49. So based on development who wins?
Based on 12:25's logic REV is the best girls club=).
531 kids (about 450 are girls)doing winter training 90 minutes a week for 17 weeks cost $275 all done by club trainers no outside people.
Also have 70 or so 6-8 years old involved for 8 weeks in the dome November and December they will move into gyms in january and february.
On top of that the one or two top teams in each age group have atleast one to three team practices or games a week.
But the bottom line is it is good for MN soccer that kids have the option to play as much as they want.
SS
judging results from showcase tournaments like casl will always be extremely difficult due to the inability to gauge the competition. there are some teams with a nice national/regional ranking that might be overrated and there are teams that have no ranking which might actually be very good. combine that with the "everyone plays" mentality as these are "showcases" for the players and anything can happen.
I agree with SS that REV is really on the uptick. Other clubs to keep your eye on are Chan/Chaska and Prior Lake. They have good foundations in place and as their numbers continue to grow so will the overall quality and depth of their players.
1235 agree to a point but results always mean something. NSR rankings at older ages are usually meaningful as their is a history of the teams playing each other by that point. Gotsoccer rankings are useless at any age, that I agree on. After hearing all the talk on tis blog about who will and who won't do what at state cup it will be refreshing to see at CASL and Disney a prelim indicator about who can walk the walk and who cannot.
As a parent who is shopping about for a better place for my son (who does not play in any of the clubs listed), I did a bit of research on 12:25's statements. I agree that DR and St. Croix have very good programs, and our daughter, who plays for MTA, is also very happy with her training program there.
It looks from the B-ville website like they have 5 trainers in their COE, 4 of whom coach or have coached in their club. The fifth is SW who is a very good trainer.
The idea that this is "renting" training (mentioned here a couple of times) appears to be an inaccurate shot.
I agree that PSA has over-priced their winter training.
I also thought that EP's winter programming was well designed.
The fact of the matter is that all of the clubs mentioned are offering training options for their players over the winter months, which is ample proof that Bangu/MTA have raised the bar around here.
1:02 - how many teams are even going to CASL (2-3)?
Hey, did you see the announcement from MYSA they hired the Hamline coach to be the asst director with Curtis. This is a good deal he is a great coach from what I've seen and heard.
4 teams to CASL. 5 to Disney.
1:02 - walk the walk against who? other mn teams? regionally ranked teams? nationally ranked teams? i looked at the teams going and i do not believe many of them have done much "talking the talk" (maybe that's because none of them are mta).
?? I do not want to take sides here but there has been a lot of talk from EP and SSM U16 and WDB U17 in addition to the usual MTA chatter. Only teams that have been relatively silent are SSM and MTA U18's.
You think it is noisy now? Wait until the U13-14 groups get wound up.
They are 18 and have been around for a while. As a result they have realized that the outcome is determined on the field and not on the blog =)
SS
I will get it started =)
U14 will be wide open.
U13 is a two horse race, unless MTA 12 can change that.
SS
I doubt either MTA team will significantly challenge the 13 Rev team.
SS who are the horses? I would agree U14 is wide open. MTA U13 odds on favorite based on their state cup win playing up last year. Or has there been player movement?
MTA U13 Blue and REV are the horses.
REV added two players sure MTA added a few as well. No idea who is the better team have a feeling they are about even.
Agree based on the U12's succes last year they should be the favorite.
Also no idea how the EP U13 team is.
SS
Where is MYSA thing about the Hamline coach
MYSA Announcement
MYSA has hired Andy Coutts as its new Director of Technical Education. Andy has a Master of Arts in Kinesiology from the University of Maryland at College Park and for the past nine years has been the men’s head soccer coach and a physical education instructor at Hamline University in St. Paul. Andy’s first day with MYSA was Monday, December 1, 2008.
How did we get back on talking about MTA? Because of SS's REV bragging? Why start all the 13 and 14 year old angst right now? We were just about to embark on a semi-civilized discussion of other clubs.
U14 MTA Blue favorite. They are not a great team but still are far superior to every other U14 team in the state.
U13 MTA Blue Favorite. Rev is a good team but just don't have the same skill that MTA has from top to bottom. Rev will also have issues scoring on MTA. 4-0 prediction if they play.
SS Rev 13's pounded EP 13's at the fall Harvest Fest (thought you may have known the outcome of that one). If that is the EP team MTA Blue, MTA 12's and Rev should handle them as I believe all three teams are training and playing throughout the winter months. I would say Edina is stronger than EP.
3:11 Blue is very good and may infact defeat Rev girls but 4-0 is a pretty bold prediction when two very credible teams play one another. maybe you are trying to "stir the pot" if so you win. If you really believe that number I would bet you are in the minority of the people who have seen both teams.
I guess my "rented trainers" comment does sound negative. Sorry, just trying to differentiate talented trainers that are with a club vs outside trainers brought in to run a training program. Do think it is a worthwhile differentiation because if the trainers are members of the club that same level of training consistancy follows through all year long. Those trainers are also coaches of teams so the club has good continuity of training format, verbage, and the types of drills. I also believe that no matter how good an outside trainer, the "Club exclusive" trainer has a stronger feeling of "ownership" for the development of the kids because they are likely on that trainers team or one of the other trainers teams. I am also sure that many "rented" trainers are very skilled at their profession. Problem is when the session ends so does the training.
JMO
i dont have a dog in the hunt but in my opinion from seeing both rev 13 and MTA 13 (the defending SC champs) they are fairly even. no way it will be 4-0 (more like 1-0). as for u14, that MTA blue team is good but not 'far superior'. if i recall even lowly burnsville tied the play up u14 premier team last year and handled all the other bangu teams they played. again 'far superior' is a stretch. my apologies for continuing the u13/14 dialogue - jc
Please, we had about 12 hours of MTA/SSM free zone here, let's get back to it and double please stop the 13/14 talk we have months to go before play starts.
12:38 Tell me about the Chan/Chaska training program, nothing on their web page. Looks like indeed Prior lake is making an effort based on what is on their web page. 3 sessions (only one hour each) but priced reasonably at 225 for all three. who is doing the training? where are they training? turf or Gymnasiums?
I couldn't find much on EP's training. seems to be team oriented not age group training am I correct? EP has a good club and a great demographic to pull from(large population with money) Do they run any age group training?
REV, St Croix and Burnsville seem to have the most comprehensive programs as far as one can tell from this blog and their respective web sites. MTA pretty good too :) Sorry I know this is supposed to be a MTA free zone.
Isn't SCV more akin to MTA than a CC? Basing that on some of the successful older girls teams they have had that pull players from all across the metro ala MTA.
SCV has had a few strong teams over the years that pulled metro wide, ala MTA if you will.
Their 85/86 boys won State Cup about 45 years in a row and they were definitely metro wide as have been several of their top older girls teams.
I would term SCV a quasi-CC.
Thought we agree that all clubs are soccer clubs including MTA. However Shattuck is a Schoiol with a soccer prgram and that is just fine with me.
No club as far as I know will reject a kid no matter his or her skill based on where they live. Yes majority of players on teams come from a certain area but every club has teams C3 through MRL with players that may live outside that area.
Sorry about the EP comment totally forgot that they played this fall, I actually coached that game and have seen many of the U13 teams and I think EP and Tonka both have solid U13 teams that will do well next year. Edina are solid as well and has a very god GK and we all now how imoprtant that is.
Sorry for starting the U13 U14 stuff. Hopefully I can end it as well =)
On a side note I do not think you can meassure a teams strenghts vs another teams strebghts by looking at how they do in out of state tournaments unless they play the same opponents.
I put more weight on scrimmages between teams or if teams play the same opponents just a side note in follow up to CASL and Disney that is comming up.
What you can learn from such tournaments are what teams are training and playing qualitry games during the winter but not much mnore.
SS
god bless you 5:20.
Dear Admin
Can you please start a new thread with "SSM/MTA Free" in the header?
It will give them a place to discuss how they would finish if MTA wasn't in the picture or SSM wasn't stealing a spot.
I suspect God has more important things to do then get involved with this blog. Then again She could answer all the above questions.
The Vicar
I don't think that you can really rank the best soccer clubs, other than for your personal reasons. What may be the best for one player, may not be the best for another. THAT is the beauty of the MN soccer landscape right now. THAT is what I have been preaching.
For those who know me, you may find this hard to believe.....but I have taken many religion classes in college. I have heard students in everyone of these classes ask the instructor- "what is the best version of the Bible?" Know what answer was given 100% of the time? The one that you'll read.
Reason I gave the above story is that the best soccer club is the one who can give your child what he/she needs to learn to love the game and get them playing. If your child likes the game for the social aspects....then the best club is the one his/her friends play on. If it is for learning skills, it is the club with the trainers whose style your child best responds to. The best trainer in the world may not have a personality/style that "clicks" with your kid....and they never get full advantage of the training.
Not sure what the question is really searching for? The most competitive? The most wins? The best crest (if so, I vote St Croix)?
All the clubs will give your child something, and how much they can give depends on what they require and thier level of commitment.
SSMSouthCampus
Here are the top clubs over past 3 years based on State Cup Championships.
BNG 34
WNG 8
SCV 7
PSA 5
EDP 4
WDB 3
BHK 3
EDI 2
TNK 2
VLY 2
CDA 2
EAG 2
MU 2
8 clubs @ 1 each
anon 5:41,
All that illustrates is who has been successful not which clubs are currently the best and are on the rise.
Please ignore 5:41, that same post has been on here multiple times, dusted off today to get the focus back where we're trying to stay away from. Ignore him, he'll go away.
7:09,
Maybe you should start your own blog. That way you can delete any MTA/SSM posts.
Until then you have no control over what is posted here.
Good luck!
I agree with SSM South Campus. The beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I do think it is however far more enjoyable to read this blog when the discussion is around describing, comparingand contrasting the differences of the MN soccer community. ALL clubs do some things better and worse than others deopending on what YOU/ME are looking for. II do like the opportunity to learn what MTA,SSM,PSA,ST Croix,Dakota Rev,Chan Chaska, EP,Edina,Wayzata etc. are doing that is working and what is not working. My kids play for one of the clubs listed above and we are very happy with their development as players. We have zero intention of ever switching clubs but still I am very interested in making sure our club leadership is aware of what others are doing that works,and what doesn't work.
I am of the belief that MN soccer is on the upswing. Teams/Clubs training year around having success out of state etc.
"A rising tide lifts all ships"
7:13 Actually, you goobers have your own blog written nearly daily by your leader. You , with membership, can go on there and read for hours of the great coaching exploits, I, me, and my are the three most used words on it. Enjoy!
7:35 = same jealous MA hater with same old shots. My God, get over him already, it'll be good for you. As for the I, me, and my, isn't it his blog that he's writing about his views, his teams, and with his thoughts. You want him to write in 3rd person?
This is the "MN FUTBOL BLOG" and is open to all who are involved in Minnesota futbol.
If some body wants to start a blog that excludes MTA and SSM that is their prerogative.
Until then all should feel free to post whatever they wish as long as it's in good taste given that many youth players visit this site.
8:30 Relax, I think the intent of the posters was to get away from the acrimonious stuff posted by the pro and anti mta folks, why do you suppose anyone would listen to the posts suggesting exclusion anyways? There was about one day of club stuff here but we're right back at it today.
Any suggestions on good out of state tournaments within driving distance 6-7 hours or less in March and April? Even better tournaments that are not mainly made up of MN teams =)
SS
Frankly, the good and bad posts all create something I relish-- a healthy dialog. MTA is not right all the time, it is not perfect, but right now, they are the standard bearer in MN soccer. SSM has added another dimension to MN soccer to push MTA to be better. I, for one, do very strongly believe that all of this competition between MTA and SSM has not gotten any "solid" CC caught in their crossfire; but, rather has helped to make all of the rersponsive CC's much better for their players. The club I'm involved with sees a tremendous opportunity for it's players as we are responding to all of this by improving our product. We will have record numbers in our travel program in 2009, and, though I'd rather not say who we are, the excitement being generated at our club will result in a great environment for our players. Will we turnout a lot of "high-end" players in the future? We always have, they just didn't finish their club careers at our CC.
Thanks to both Bangu/SSM for awakening our club heirarchy, you have helped us immensely!
Bible,religion??? The transformation of myth over time.
The Vicar
Bible,religion??? The transformation of myth over time.
The Vicar
My DD and I watched the Inferno scrimmage a boys team while waiting for her camp to start.
We were shocked at how fast these teams played, their tactics and passing.
I am sure it motivated her a bit during her camp. It is a lot easier to teach the beautiful game when the players get a chance to see it played at a higher level.
The ability to watch a good soccer match up close (Gophs, MIAC, premiere, HS, Lightning) will help MN continue to raise the level of youth soccer.
splitsville
The Inferno is a very good team. They have an excellent group of atheletes and a fantastic coach, one of our state's best. Thanks for your kind words 11:32
7:35am, lol up and hating early aren't we? I agree with the follow up poster. GET OVER MA. He is clearly one of our state's most gifted soccer educators and has, along with many other people of his generation, helped elevate MN soccer. Your petty shots at him speak volumes of your envy, inferiority complex, or likely both.
I agree with the Inferno being a great team for MN. Which boys team were they playing? Lots of top girls teams going this route in recent history though playing teams of the same age group after the u13 year in my experience hasn't led to equal contests due to the boys superior athleticism. Were they playing a young team or does the athleticism even out at the u17 age group?
1:43 Chill out, I agree 7:35 was out of line , when you then come on and spew the vile too it cheapens your admonitions of 7:35 types. My experience on here shows if noone takes the bait from EITHER side those types go away.
Rochester MTA? How about one in Aitkin?
RYSA will rue this day.
4-0 mta 13 blue over Dakota rev? That is more than a bit optimistic. I think it's silly to make crazy predictions but am convinced it will be a little closer than 4-0. The rev team got better last season as the summer wore on and it appeared the mta team was faltering at the end.
lmao 5:59 Another MTHater (yes I've just coined a new word for you all) chiming in with all the intelligence that has come to represent many of the people like you on this blog.
Yes, RYSA will rue the day they brought PDL soccer to Rochester. Their 3,800 kids will hate watching some of the top Minnesota collegiate players playing down in their backyard a dozen times each summer, hate the players working with them in their community, and hate watching division rivalries against the 2005 and 2008 PDL champs. That sucks for them. What were they thinking?
MTHaters abound, no doubt about it. Good word but someone already coined MAters. We'll see which one sticks. They are just as entitled to speak up as anyone else is.
Great opportunity for RYSA. Affluent market, no other summer sports draw from what I can tell, and the second or third largest youth soccer club in the state. NC is a great choice as a coach. Thunder also get another piece to their developmental pyramid. What's missing? US Soccer Development Academy. Solid by the Thunder, good for them.
USSF Academy is right around the corner for SSM & MTA.
This is all great news for the Minnesota soccer community.
Sure has become quiet. Any CASL results in? Disappointing draw for the very good MN teams but still good exposure. Good chance of 12-0!
Still fun that Mn teams are out there playing too! Quietness probably people sick of the constant mta anti mta that goes on here.
10:17, tell us all what is bad about the level of MN soccer improving (I must be an idiot as well as I think the USSF program would raise the level of play)? On a sidenote, my boy plays for neither of those programs.
Quietness due to some of the more prolific posters traveling this weekend.
CASL
SSM - 2
EP - 1
WDB - 1
Other than some SSM banter, the other two teams are usually fairly quiet.
USSF academy at SSM will be a good thing run by people of integrity with the interests of the kids first. Putting it at MTA with the people there will be a step backwards, I hope there is some effort by USSF to do a more thorough investigation of the local soccer community and see how they would be an abysmal choice for this.
I would disagree with 1108, SSM usually quiet other than an occasional eruption. EP and WDB are quite noisy.
1127 you can certainly question the motivation for either MTA and SSM. SSM admits it is about increasing enrollment and making the school more profitable. I would think MTA has similar goals. If the kids are getting what they want, what difference does it make?
you wouldn't by chance have a bone to pick with mta would you 11:27?
11:28 - maybe so, but I don't really recall that much about those two specific teams (EP & WDB). 80% of this thread seems to revolve around in some shape or form MTA.
There is more about MTA in general than anything else. Those two teams seem to post more than any other single teams though, although I concede it is often about how they are better than MTA (or SSM in some cases). That usually starts the roller coaster again.
11:27,
Please share with us what an investigation of MTA would turn up?
I'm sure you have some factual info you can share.
What would USSF uncover? That MTA gets the top players together on their teams? GASP!
That the top club in the state recruits? GASP! Bet that doesn't happen with any other USSF clubs!
It's hard to take your moronic post as being serious.
It's a shame some folks just can't see the forest for the trees.
No bone to pick, they are a poor choice for the USSF program. SSM offers a unique situation not for all kids. Giving this program to mta for the rest here in the metro area is a mistake, no I'm not a hater, there is too much damage a very few idiots there have done and in my opinion there are better ways and certainly better clubs here to get the academy going and get the right kids to participate.
Goober go back and read. investigation of local soccer community not mta. maybe investigation was wrong word the idea being ussf should get an idea of the atmosphere here poisened by a few there.
11:48 - why is it a mistake and what is all the damage that you reference? If not them, then who?
11:48,
Specifically what "damage have a very few idiots" done.
Are these "idiots" from the boys program? The girls program? The Thunder honchos?
It's easy to throw about allegations with nothing to back it up.
Anyone with a "bone to pick" can anonymously post on this blog.
Give us some specifics to the damage done as to why MTA shouldn't be admitted to USSF Academy.
Here is a site for the CASL tourny this weekend for the girls. Don't know if any boys teams made the trip down.
http://www.gotsport.com/events/?eventid=4062
Good Luck MN teams.
splitsville
Can someone share the benefits / reasoning of having a PDL team in Rochester versus "the cities"?
I'm not getting the location unless it was a "here or nothing" kind of deal.
Isn't the PDL basically a U23 league?
Unless the coaches are planning on recruiting from outside the state...
I don't see a lot of local guys commuting to Rochester all summer.
It's very possible I'm missing something so please weigh in.
Does anyone else think 1224 is an MTA person trying to embarrass the other side?
Blackhawks
MU both good choices due to central locations and both strong clubs on boys side.
St Croix, Eden Prairie, Tonka, PSA all would be better choices for academy. IMO. I'm not looking to get screamed at by any zealots from either side, just discussion.
What is a goober? Thought Bangu no longer existed.
Rochester Thunder... interesting. Wonder what MYSA thinks about this. MA is a Roch native and was undoubtedly spearheading this effort - and we all know what some people at MYSA think about MA's work. Also, NC, a fantastic choice as a coach for this team, just left MYSA after being recently hired last year.
Regardless, awesome summer opportunity for top level MN college-ase boys who play outside of MN at DI schools. Great opportunity for the MIAC coaches/players as well to rally behind the Thunder.
1:15,
The USSF Academy looks at history of success.
Look around the country at the clubs chosen for the Academy.
They are always the very top clubs in the state. Not clubs who win 1 state cup title every once in a while.
The USSF Academy knows who the top coaches and top clubs are and will always pick the cream of the crop based on results.
They aren't going to change because of hurt feelings at a few community clubs.
Why in your opinion would the clubs you noted be better options than MTA and SSM?
1:15 - I've got nothing against any of the clubs you've mentioned, but I believe 1:56 is probably correct in his assessment. MTA has a much stronger history of success (9 boys state cup titles over the last three years) and right or wrong that will always be a determining factor.
I know of No club (any sport) who has enjoyed the success that MTA/Bangu has achieved over the past several years that is so despised by the general population of the competing teams. I understand that it is often lonely at the top and that jealousy from familys who didn't make a team are likely to exist to some degree but the distain and lack of respect that is so prevelant when referencing this particular group itleads me to believe that they (MTA) neads to look in the mirror and Identify the reasons for this reaction so many have and figure out how to exist and ultimately thrive without being so hated.
I believe the "free agency" of players that is allowed in soccer is one of the major differences when contrasting MTA to other top programs. We all know that soccer has the loosest borders of any sport, most other sports are governed by the athletic associations of the local high schools and the kids that play for them are required to live within those boundries. The other difference is when MTA recruits and a player is removed from another team , that player is often playing against their old team . In Basketball, baseball etc. when a player opts for another option they usually are on more of a "select" team that plays other "select" teams largely from other states or districts.
MTA has an image problem with the soccer community in general for these and other reasons. Overzealous parents and coaches , bad mouthing the "limited opportunities" the CC's can offer, High prices , higher promises etc. Truth is the MTA/Bangu system has produced some terrific winning records on the field. Too bad they have been such a failure to the system off the field. A winner who can be classy in winning is so much more fun to support.
2:55 - I commend you on a well thought out and written post. You have hit on many points in a clear manner.
I guess the big question is what would you like to see them do (what behavior would you like to see them change)?
Unfortunately, IMO in many people's minds the only way for them to reduce the animosity is not to develop the teams that they do (which would reduce the CC backlash and most likely would also diminish their successes/accomplishments). That direction is also pretty much against everything they are striving to achieve.
For anyone out there, what should they do to touch on 2:55's thoughts of being able to thrive without being so hated?
3:08 It's me 2:55. I think they should clearly define what and who they want to be. An elite soccer club with one top regional team or a competing soccer club with all of the other community based clubs that recruits away from them and then plays against those same teams.
I would focus on the Blue teams and forget about the white, green and black level squads. It is pointless to have some of the very poor MTA/Bangu teams if they are of poor quality. I realize some of the lower level teams are needed for financial reasons and this is a legitimate issue for a for profit club.
I also think the MTA coaches and recruiters should tone it down a bit. I have personally had more negative issues with Bangu coaches than those of any other club. Please do not interpret my comments to be inclusive of all Bangu/MTA coaches I remember a couple situations that I am confident the MTA leadership would have been very proud of how their coaches handled tough situations, but honestly I have seen more negatives with this group than any other club. They also need a strict parent code of conduct. They, due to the nature of the club will attract some very, what should we call them,,,Passionate parents. These parents need to be reeled in a bit( I know this is not easy)
I have been coaching and have kids involved in traveling soccer for 6 years now so although many have seen more I an not completely green at this. Thats what I would do for starters.
2:55,
Once again someone posts generalizations while knocking MTA/Bangu.
Would someone please give a specific example of what they've done that is causing the hard feelings?
We're all anonymous here so don't be bashful in pointing out specifics.
It sounds more like jealousy of their success than actual issues that are causing the acrimony.
If it just boils down to the top players gravitating to top teams that is hardly the cause for all this animousity.
I'd like to hear some specifics.
3:27, 3:08 here. I would agree with many of your comments. Blue team definitely, hard to knock the successes of some of the lower aged white teams, but wean out of them as the kids get older. Not sure how to accomplish not competing with the community based clubs since to be a regional team one of the starting blocks is winning State Cup (if the USSF Adademy program kicks in this will become a mute point). I agree they should focus on the region, and their Academy program might be decreasing some of the recruiting as many kids are already there, just not sure how you stop the influx of talent from the other clubs (which is as much driven by the "passionate parents" - great term, as it is by MTA).
2:55
I for one do not accept your premise. I had a DD play for Bangu and found that they were good to play for and have found since that they are good to play against. One bad apple and any organization gets painted with a broad brush.
The anomosity you reference is fostered/nurtured by the many anons on this website nothing more.
Take a good look arond during your soccer experiences away from this blog and you will find many more positive relationships with all clubs.
We left simply because it was to much money and to much travel for a white team player. She is doing well and still retains her friendships from her former teamates.
i believe it is more than just 1 bad apple.
At CASL
SSM U18 lose 2-1 to Virginia Rush #33R1
WDB U17 win 5-0 over Central Delaware #22R1
Surprising result for SSM, but at U18 not much to prove. Likely to bounce back in next two games. WDB flight placement is puzzling, they have enough of a track record to merit more respect IMO. Disappointing for these two teams to be placed in low flights.
WDB placement is surprising.
SSM placement makes some sense.
They had little track record as a U17 team from what I've seen.
All the best U17 teams are placed in their national league "red bull" flights. Same is true at 15 and 16. Not many good teams left after that. That is the negative to traveling to these tournaments. Big money for poor competition.
Would be interesting to see why the players left or never attended their local clubs and went to the MTA. We left the local CC because there was very limited winter training and the parent coaches just didn't spend any time on foot skills. These problems have been recitified to some extent several years later, but once players/parents leave a team they are reluctant to come back. (could probably do a blog on this point alone).
I think maybe that the CCs need to admit that there is a problem with the CC/MTA relationship and that with most problems - both sides need to take some ownership.
MTA could not recruit if they did not offer something that the CC couldn't. Saying that it is all snake oil and the the MTA parents are egotistic and living through their kids isn't going to bring about an answer. Although I'm sure it will get a response. : ). But not from me.
This has been a very intelligent last few blogs - hope it stays that way.
You have to be kidding. SSM lost to a team ranked #33 in their region.SSM has all those D1 recruits and a future all american going to UCLA. I don't believe it.
SSM should be beating a team like that 3-0. How the heck do you recruit nationally and let some scrub team beat you. I still don't believe it.
Maybe if you were at the game and watching what the teams goals were in approaching a showcase tournament, instead of sitting at your keyboard getting fat, you might understand.
There is no excuse for SSM to lose to a lousy team like that. All of SSM's players have already committed (see above). Their benchers should have been able to beat them. Losing to a team like that is a disgrace. Quit the excuses.
Apparently SSM doesn't have any pride.
A national soccer academy gets beat by some chump cc team.
Spin it all you want but NC is a long way to go to choke.
Eastsider
North Carolina 1 UCLA 0
3:28:
Here is one specific that you ask for. A Bangu parent (fooloishly I might add) stated to me during the high school season that my daughter should try out for MTA and could maybe make her own daughter's MTA team. She did this with a "snottish" tone. Little does this idiot women know that my daughter has been recruited by Bangu for three years to actually play on a team at a higher level than her own daughter. She has also turned down opportunities (several) to "guest" in certain showcases around the country numerous times in those same three years, some with older Bangu teams. This, all because her daughter plays for a very weak Bangu team and my poor daughter doesn't. Oh, did I add that my daughters team annually beats her daughters team. This doesn't make me angry, it actually amuses my daughter and myself. Finally, her daughter "might" get to play at a very weak D-3 school at best, and the "she should try out for MTA" player, my daughter, is being recruited by several higher level D-1 schools. The whole thing might make me angry if I didn't realize this stupid mom is spending double what I am to be seen at some schlock showcase where a major college is considered Albion College of East Cabool, TX or wherever. these are the kind of stupid poorly placed insults that are thrown around by stupid MTA White parents. Get a clue parents. Just because you wear a pin stripe suit doesn't mean you are a successful person--same with the powder blue.
All of that said, most of the MTA heirarchy are good people trying to improve soccer in MN and I respect most of them.
LOL 902 you sound more angry than amused to me!
837 and others. SSM is a U18 team. Whether they win or lose in a tournament, especially showcase ones, is no longer of any consequence to them. They are already accepted (or not) into all the events they wish to participate in this year. Next year they are off to college. All that would really matter to them for results is state cup, and even that is not as significant anymore with college looming. If you want to find significance at CASL do it with the younger teams. And no I am not affiliated in any way with SSM. Also I would guess you did not even see the game to have any idea on how it went.
Actually, no I am very amused. As I said many times before, I have enjoyed watching the current 18 Blues. The 18 Whites are wannabees. The 17 Blues are wannabees, as for the 17 Whites--sad. The 16 Blues are a very solid team indeed, but again, the Whites... The 15 Blues are already gaining a reputation as a very solid team, but the whites and below... Anyone can get the drift, MTA needs a feeder program, which is the sole existence for the Whites and below. I believe MA and MC and some of the others are decent guys just trying to do their job. The real problem lies with the wannabee parents. For the most part parents of Blue players are modest, but too many parents of white team and below are really out to lunch as for where they believe their kids are headed in soccer after HS. BTW, 9:06, what type of team does you player play on? A white?
Anyone else think all the attacks on SSM tonight are nervous mta folks?
9:44 what would MTA have to be nervous about.You guys are funny.
Why would any U18 team go to a showcase. All their players would have already been verballed. Seens like a waste of time and money to me.
Where can I even begin....
Were any of you at the games today in Raleigh to see the "embarrassment" you describe? I was there. All I can tell you is:
1) the U18s played with heart, but just couldn't get it done this morning. They DID come back in thier next game (one hour later) to "redeem" themselves.
2)There were BIG TIME D-1 Coaches all over. Just driving in, we counted nearly 20 Coaches just getting to our parking spot. How many did your player have watching him/her while they sat in Geometry class today?
EastSider- I would hardly call any of the Rush family of Soccer Clubs chumps. The particular one that you describe as a chump happens to be a USSF Developmental Academy on the boys' side. They don't give these to "chump" community clubs (your words).
FYI to whoever above mentioned that the National Red Bull League is watering down the field-- The National League and Red Bull League are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LEAGUES.
Lastly, I'd like to go on record now to say that I would personally appreciate it if regardless of results tomorrow-- there not be negative talk regarding the SSM teams. Suffice it to say that there was a tragedy back in Faribault tonight, and the players are aware of the situation and are in a very emotional state. I am not sure how they will respond on the field, but am certain that thier minds will be elsewhere tomorrow. Please respect this situation by acting like human beings. Thank you, sincerely.
SSMSouthCampus
9:02/9:25 isn't holding their liquor very well this evening...
Maybe 9:02/0:25 should try to hold them by thier ears?
I prefer by the neck..
944 no I don't. MTA and SSM attacks come from the same source. I am sure though that you would love to see them tear each other apart to help you as your post indicates. Why would SSM make MTA nervous? The "possessions" as you like to call them are never going to attend a boarding school in large numbers, particularly on the girls side.
SSM U18 4-2 win over Freestate Sharks (MD) Unranked
Todays Games:
SSM 18 v Ohio Elite Gold Unranked
WDB 17 v Classics Elite #31 R3
EP 16 v Dynamo (IN) Unranked
EP 16 v Dauphin (PA) #17 R1
SSM 16 v Chantilly Courage (VA) Unranked
SSM 16 v Wilson Explosion (NC) Unranked
Interesting game for EP v Dauphin.
SSMSC Sorry if I worded my previous pst incorrectly, I forgot the "and" between national league and "red bull". Yes the Red Bull and National League are different leagues, AND BOTH ARE AT CASL THUS WATERING DOWN THE COMPETITION IN THE OTHER FLIGHTS! Does that satisfy you or are you still feeling retentive?
7:47 - I agree, it will be interesting to see if arguably one of the top MN U16 teams can beat the #4 team from Eastern PA......
I would hope so, if not this state is not progressing very rapidly. PA not a soccer hotbed.
College commitments should kick into high gear over next 2 months after showcases. U18's are done and most of the top U17's have verballed, but there will be a lot of U17's as well as some U16's committing soon.
2009's - pretty much all done.
2010's - bigger programs are wrapping up, still lots more to come
2011's - there might be a couple of kids who commit, but 98% won't commit until they are juniors.
Please - enlighten us about what tragedy occurred at SSM or in Faribault.
EP 3 zip over Dynamo, SSM loses 3-1 to Chantilly.
Just to be clear it was the SSM U16 who lost 3-1.
WDBY Inferno win 3-0.
Will there be any extra games where the MN teams could actually get a quality team to play if they win their pool? Or is everything already set?
I believe at the U16 level there is a bit of playoff structure that matches bracket winners, runner ups, etc... against each other (1st place bracket "A" vs. 1st place bracket "B", etc....).
At U17 and U18 it is pretty much you play your three games and go home.
Talk about our lil Mia's etc....you haven't seen anything til you see something like INTERNATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOLF HILTON HEAD SC.
Kids gonna play on the pro tour??
Listen to the schools sales and marketing people.
Most of these kids can't break an egg let alone 100.
Talk about suckers. Makes us look like amateurs.
11:16- Please look it up on the web.
11:54- SSM U16 score posted incorrectly on site. Actual score was 1-1. Second game vs. Wilson was a complete joke and SSM lost 2-1. Very rarely will you hear me say this (as I am a certified official as well), but the officiating has been absolutely attrocious. First game nearly 20 fouls called on SSM, 2 against Chantilly. Bad enough that the Chantilly parents noticed as well. Second game was absolutely taken away by center ref. I don't expect anyone to believe this, but to give you an idea the AR came to our coach after the game and suggested that he report the officiating to the tournament, because it definately affected the outcome. He was going to report it as well. We watched Chantilly play Wilson, Wilson was down 4-0 at half. That should tell you something?
Our girls are playing fairly well, but just not getting any "breaks". All of us have experienced this at some time....you just expect more from the officiating at a tournament like this?
SSMSouthCampus
http://www.faribault.com/news.php?viewStory=39321
WDB wins 4-0, not 3-0 as someone reported earlier.
SSM 18 v Ohio Elite Gold Unranked
WDB 17 v Classics Elite #31 R3 W 4-0
EP 16 v Dynamo (IN) Unranked W 3-0
EP 16 v Dauphin (PA) #17 R1
SSM 16 v Chantilly Courage (VA) Unranked L 3-1
SSM 16 v Wilson Explosion (NC) Unranked L 2-1
3:04- SSM score for Chantilly is not correct. Please see above.
Good work to the MN teams at CASL. Good showing by all considering the situation at SSM.
Special thoughts and best wishes to the SSM kids. Wishing you the best with this difficult situation.
Today's action complete
SSM 18 v Ohio Elite Gold Unranked W 1-0
WDB 17 v Classics Elite #31 R3 W 4-0
EP 16 v Dynamo (IN) Unranked W 3-0
EP 16 v Dauphin (PA) #17 R1 D 1-1
SSM 16 v Chantilly Courage (VA) Unranked D 1-1
SSM 16 v Wilson Explosion (NC) Unranked L 2-1
Cold and windy in NC. Advantage Minnesnowta!!
Advantage Minnesota negated by homer refs. I am curious to see wht the impression of the EP U16s was of the officiating down here this weekend. Have only watched one game out of 7 that had decent, non-one sided officiating.
SSMSouthCampus
Quit whining. Everybody gets screwed once in a while.
You have to play tough and put yourself into a position where a ref can't beat you.
Get over it.
9:42- While you may be right, I have a USSF referee badge....and I don't remember anywhere in the course where it mentioned that I should play a part in the outcome of matches?
All I said was that I was curious to see what the EP folks had to say. Are you affiliated with the EP U16s? If not, who asked you?
SSM Campus. Just tired of your whining. You know what you can do with your badge....
Wow, anon1:42 is a big man. I'm sure his dd is proud.
WDB 2-0 W Birmingham (AL) Unranked
SSM 16 3-0 W CRSC (NC) Unranked
EP 1-0 W Velocity (TN) #18 R3
EP v Florida Rush Unranked
By the way, CASL was a Showcase, not a tournament. SSM 18s played alot of the players that have not committed or that are younger on the U18 team. The way its suppose to be handled. All players for SSM played well this weekend. I handed out over 60 team profiles this weekend. Great trip considering what happened back at Shattuck!!
10s Dad
ps. Not trying to start anything, but the word is getting out about Shattuck. Most coaches I handed profiles told me, yea, Iv heard of Shattuck, its the school up in MN, how does your player like it etc etc..some told me that they really liked what the team was trying to do on the field.
That's good news coaches are familiar with the SSM program. Good to get Minnesota soccer the recognition around the country, thanks for the update.
Looks like 10's DAD decided to "start something" A little self promotion going on here I think. If I were a betting Man I would say 10's Dad found it necessary to respond to his own post in an effort of some need he feels to self promote SSM. Just a hunch but isn't it odd that we had no posts for hours prior too the first post, then a quick follow upwithin about the time it would take to type his own response, then again no posts up to current.
Here they are you be the judge.
"ps. Not trying to start anything, but the word is getting out about Shattuck. Most coaches I handed profiles told me, yea, Iv heard of Shattuck, its the school up in MN, how does your player like it etc etc..some told me that they really liked what the team was trying to do on the field.
7/12/08 8:29 PM"
followed by: "That's good news coaches are familiar with the SSM program. Good to get Minnesota soccer the recognition around the country, thanks for the update.
7/12/08 8:49 PM"
LOL I was wondering same thing. I support SSM and what they are doing and agree with 10 dad post. Can you imagine though if someone had made a post like that or 849 and substituted the letters MTA for SSM? This blog would have erupted!
PLEASE!! I dont have to promote anything. This youth club stuff is all but done for us. Its all about prepping for the next journey. I was given the task of handing out the team profiles, which I did, and had alot of nice conversations with some of the coaches watching. Shared with them what we have been thru at Shattuck, alot of them had alot of questions about it. What, do you think I would lie to these coaches on the sidelines?? Yea, dont answer that. We could really care less on win/lose records. That includes State Cup! Why worry about things that are not in your control anyway. And, beleive it or not, Im not really on this site all that much anyway. I spend more time on the Gophers thread than this MRL thread. The conversations are a bit more civil over there.
10s Dad
Clearly you Aren't on this blog that much ,,,, It took you all of 29 minutes to respond to the post of which probably ten minutes were typing. Its great to be proud of your team, I have no problem with that. Don't care about winning?? I do have a problem with any team/organization that wants to put out competitive teams that doesn't care about winning especially once they get to the ages of the SSM teams (refering to the 16's and 18's) I understand development and Showcasing kids for college etc. but not caring about wins and loses seems a bit ingenuinous.
if ssm doesn't care about winning, then why the big desire to get into state cup....
Winning matters at 15-16 because it determines the recognition your team/club gets and what tournaments you will be accepted into and what flight you will be in. At 17-18 it becomes less and less important as the die is already cast.
10:22 - Did you mean disingenuous? I realize that winning is more important to you than a decent education, but still, if you are going to use a word with more than two syllables, you should probably look it up first.
10:23 - Ever hear of development through decent competition? That is something that State Cup offers. In fact, the best reason to want to win State Cup is to get even more competition at regionals. Either way, its about development.
10:42 - whatever makes you feel better......
Heard about the scandal and suicide down at SSM within the lacrosse program. Do you see this affecting the soccer programs? Could happen anywhere and prep schools are not unique here, but tough experience for the kids.
11:09- Honestly, what do you think? The student population is very small, and the faculty member was Director of Residential Life and lived on campus in one of the dorms. So, if someone your child deals with on an almost daily basis decides to commit suicide IN YOUR SCHOOL with the students present.... would it have any effect on the student body? I can tell you that Friday night was a very long night for the U16 girls' soccer team in Raleigh.
SSMSouthCampus
One other thing, 11:09-- I don't know that anyone has proof of "scandal" so how about we leave that genie in the bottle until more concrete information is given out? Have some respect for the people involved....both the dead and living?
SSMSouthCampus
10:42 Yes, my bad, my typing got ahead of my low level brain function I did mean DIS ingenuouos. Thank you for pointing it out.
I still think you should try to win once you step out on the field. Of course development is critical but learning to have a winning attitude is part of the developmental process. If we (parents/coaches) are trying to develop athletes as well as future contributing members to society I would say creating a winning enviornment would be very important part of the development of any participant. I still believe (contrary to the recent business headlines about bailouts etc) that learning to win the right way will benefit the kids long term. The kids need to know that they can control thier own destiny and that the need to finish strong and come out ahead is the expectation.
Both winning and losing are contagious (someone may need to check my spelling on that one) and the difference between the two is often between the ears.
Don't get me wrong. I don't believe that even the people who try and stir the pot here aren't in-human enough to try and use the recent events to cause problems. I just wanted to keep things on a factual level at this point to protect everyone involved. I don't think 11:09 has anything to be "ashamed of", just asking to keep the inuendo out of the conversation. That's all.
SSMSouthCampus
To highlight again the idiocy of the gotsoccer ranking system. EP received 580 points for going 3-0-1 in a relatively weak flight. Sting received 0 points for going 2-0-1 in their very difficult Red Bull flight. Not trying to pick on EP here, they played well against some decent teams. Just pointing out how silly the gotsoccer ranking system is.
The gotsoccer ranking system is used by all MAJOR tournaments in placing teams for flights. Each team has to start somewhere.
EP however, played some strong teams (Maybe not the best in the nation but still strong teams).
Indiana- State Cup Runner up
Pennsylvania team played in the National league the year before and were semi-finalist in their state cup.
Tennessee team- ranked number one in their state and state cup runner up.
Florida team- state cup runner up.
7:05, you must be from MTA or SSM. Keep hating while EP keeps winning championships this season.
What EP team will win a championship MYSA, State Cup or MRL? Maybe 16's but that is about it?
What other teams do they have that could challange for any of the shampionships above?
7:05,
You should congratulate the Minnesota team on their success.
Well done EP!
MTA
reading 705's post it appears he/she is (rightfully) criticizing the got soccer ranking system and goes out of the way to congratulate EP. Relax EP parents. I think the point is that the Sting team had as good a record as EP against much better teams and received far less gotsoccer points. Again, relax EP parents.
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