Posted here before, the future of true elite soccer is and will be residential academies like SSM. For the past few years Bangu now MTA have staked 90% of their recruiting on their huge success at winning State Cup titles. Now SSM threatens them at two ages 16 & 18 When MTA can no longer win those age divisions much more of the shine will be off. That explains the whining on here about fairness. The rich part is the whining coming from the club that has done more rule bending that anyone!
Why would a parent send their kid to SSM? Well, I can only give you the reasons that our daughter is at SSM. So....
We live in a rural area in Iowa where it was 50 miles each way for training three nights a week. Teams were full of players who weren't soccer specific, and it took a back-seat to other "commitments". And this is a 3x State Cup Championship team! She wanted and needed more to give it her best shot at becoming the best player she could be. She gave up a lot, but her commitment seems to be paying off (if she can stay healthy).
The opportunity to attend SSM gave her two things:
1) DAILY training with like minded players. Great facilities, including weight room that would make many Colleges blush. Highly qualified Coaches (A-License, previous College Coaches) who do it right. Teach fundamentals and tactics, willing to work with kids outside of normal training sessions.
2) Very good academics (pre-med courses with internships Jr and Sr year at Mayo for example), and many other intangibles that are hard to describe. There is a huge alumni base out there who are very well placed. I would best characterize it like the Masonic handshake.... the alumni do take care of thier own. Also, she has friends at school whose parents are top Executives at Apple, HP, IBM, CEOs at very large respected hospitals and such....networking starts here. As adults, I am sure you can see how this is helpful?
I can promise you that soccer-wise, academic-wise, and maturity level-wise.....my child is far ahead of where she would have been had she stayed home. As a matter of fact, one of the biggest selling points was given to me not from the school by more than one a D-1 College Coach (one from the Big Ten the other from Missouri Valley Conf Coach). I was told by these Coaches that they would be happy to bring any of the SSM kids into thier program for two reasons. First, they are used to a very rigorous educational (very college-like) atmosphere coupled with daily training schedule. These kids learn to manage thier time efficiently and coaches would feel very comfortable they could handle college life. And secondly, the kids are mature. They can take care of themselves and college freedoms don't seem to effect them as much....this is VERY noticeable when they come home.
Tuition is a factor, but select soccer has real expenses associated as well. All in all we find SSM to be about a wash financially once you factor in the five-day a week 100 mile per session trek (including weekend games), food (she eats like a horse), and club fees. Our payment is "all in"-- no extra coaching fees, travel fees, or dome fees. Scholarships can be given for soccer which account for considerable savings on the tuition, but financial aid for those who need it can fill a lot of the rest of the gap.
Bottom line- My kid is very happy there. She WAS hesitant at first, but a campus visit was all it took for her to realize it was the right place for her. I always caution people though-- IT ISN'T FOR EVERYONE. IT TAKES A SPECIAL BREED OF KID TO BE ABLE TO ATTEND SSM. They have to be driven, confident, self-disciplined kids. If a kid has behavioral problems at home, guess what? They will definately find a way to get into trouble at school. I think people would find that if they just look into the program with an open mind, it really isn't a terrible option. It would have been so much easier for us to make the decision if we'd lived in Minnesota. I can't fathom having the opportunity to have my kid be a "day student" at SSM and live at home-- and NOT SENDING THEM?! Tution for day students starts out at 1/2 the listed price for boarders....you get the benefits but your kid sleeps in your house at night. Talk about having your cake and eating it too? But, everyone has choices to make...your circumstances aren't the same as mine. Not all kids are the same. I would NEVER criticize anyone for making decisions different than I would. Maybe OS's dad will speak up and testify to this on my behalf? I have tried to convince him, but it isn't right for her. Don't think I don't stil give him a hard time about it....but I know it isn't right for her. We remain friends, and don't fight over it. To each their own. THAT IS WHAT IS BEAUTIFUL ABOUT MINNESOTA-- YOU HAVE OPTIONS MOST DON'T HAVE. But, we argue every day on this blog about how stupid someone else is for making the decision they make with thier kids.
In the words of Forrest Gump...."that's all I have to say about that".
anon 10:22, Soon both MTA and SSM will be part of the USSF Academy program. At that point neither of them will be allowed to compete in Minnesota State Cup with the teams/age groups that participate in the USSF Academy. Based on that MTA and SSM will be on equal footing. That will also open up the doors for the CCs to begin winning State Cup championships in those specific age groups.
8:02 - please see 6:58am's post as it is completely accurate. From U16 up, they will not be allowed to compete in State Cup as they will be part of the USSF Academy.
State Cup really isnt that important, its just a tool to advance and play in front of the next level. We have been there, won a Natl Championship with Eclipse, not going to lie, it was a great ride, however, when it comes to training, and getting ready for college, my dd is so much further ahead by attending Shattuck then she would of been playing with Eclipse and winning hardware. I can name alot of players that do not play for State Cup winners that are tops in their D1 Conferences and Natl teamers. People put way to much into WINNING State Cup. There are other options out there that can help your dd's get noticed. ODP is one tool, camps are another. And hard work away from training is another option. For us, SSM was the route SHE wanted to do and we havent looked back. I would suggest to anyone, call Shattuck, set up a date and go visit, ask to guest play or train with the team for a day. Its in your own back yard.
10's dad is correct. If you want to play college soccer play on a good club team that can get into the premier showcase tournaments that the coaches attend. If you do that and perform well when the coaches come to watch you will get offers. The only advantage to winning state cup is that it will help your team get into these tournaments, U15-U16 are the key years to win state cup so that you can get into the showcases the following year. By U17 the die has been cast as far as what tournaments you will get in. By U18 coaches have finished recruiting at that age group and players have all committed.
Heard a great quote today, I thought that it fit here pretty well.
“Respect your fellow human being, treat them fairly, disagree with them honestly, enjoy their friendship, explore your thoughts about one another candidly, work together for a common goal and help one another achieve it.” Bill Bradley
Bangu has touted State Cup because that was the avenue used to help provide players with high level experiences. At U16 and U18 on the boys side, State Cup is not as highly valued now with the inception of US Soccer Dev Academy. Will MTA and SSM start downplaying the importance at these age groups. Of course because times change and there is a new best thing out there that both will take part in. At other age groups MTA and SSM will still put weight on State Cup as they should. CCs will have the chance to have State Cup champions at the U16 and U18 boys age groups without the threat of an "elite" club and those teams will go on to compete in a watered down regional and national run, gaining a positive experience relative to their skill level. Good thing for all I say.
Good deal, strong elite programs like SSM make all soccer better. I guess MYSA is NOT always an impediment to elite soccer. A good decision let's give MYSA credit.
Good idea. Let's let a bunch of non-Minnesotan national caliber teams play against teams from Northfield, Prior Lake, and Farmington. MYSA sure backs elite soccer. Let's give them some well deserved credit.
Hold the phone, angry Goober. When MTA goes out, collects kids from all over the metro area, some western Wisconsin kids, a few foreign exchange kids going to local high schools, they are heralded as the great givers of high level soccer. They then go out and beat up on Northfield,Prior Lake, and Farmington. Where does your logic come from, further, at least at SSM a family has to make a truly tough decision to go there, not quite as easy as "my coach sucks I'm going to play at MTA". We all want SSM to be a strong program option for kids.
I am assumming and hoping that SSM is going to have a very limited number of teams and only teams of the C1 or Premier level of play. If so great bring them on and everyone else will have to find ways to compete against them. My guess is they won't try to pull a "Bangu" and have high level teams but also their version of the white,green and black teams like Bangu,now MTA had/has. If the Thunder academy would have tried to be MN's "All Star Team" where everyone could buy in and support it they would have had much more success in Unifying MN soccer. The problem with that model of course is MONEY. Too few kids to support the organizational needs/expenses the current MTA has.
Good luck to SSM, I am glad to see a top level program (however very differently structured) as a part of the MN soccer scene.
I would guess they will play in the south for league play for non-Premier level teams. That should raise the level of play for the Lakeville,Burnsville,Dakota Rev,Valley United,Prior lake etc. clubs as they move into MYSA's State Tournament this summer and State Cup from 2010 and on.
not sure what the big concern is. how many teams can they possible have? on the girls side they might be able to field 2, maybe 3 and not much different with the boys. all at the older ages which will be a mute point once the USSF Academy program kicks in. it's not like kids from around the country are beating down the doors to move to faribault. take a peak at their teams on their website. 36 girls is all they have to show for their 3-4 years of effort and some of those players are barely premier. if you think they are going to sign up for some south C1 league you have nothing to worry about. if it allows them to play at state cup - good for them, although they already have that avenue through mrl. they went 1-1 this year, next year might be better-might be worse.
don't get me wrong, i wish them, mta, drev, ep, wdb, scv all the luck in the world (or more importantly that their players are happy and satisfied), just not sure what all the fuss is about.
3:46, hold the phone angry hater. You have absolutely no club who you are reacting to. I'm not a Goober and I'm not affiliated with MTA. Why does everyone in your little hater world have to be affiliated with MTA when they speak up against something MTA may be against. I don't know how MTA feels and I'm not basing their take on the posts of a few anons. You need to seek professional help for your bangphobia.
There is no way that SSM will play MN Premier League. They will stay in MRL and compete in State Cup with TWO teams on the girls' side and three teams on the boys' side.
For those who think they'll ever compete in anything lower than those levels, wake up. SSM will never be a threat to the likes of Lakeville, Prior Lake, Edina, or any other C-1 and lower MYSA team.
thank you 5:12 on behalf of everyone else along the way who might have been painted with the "goober" brush from posters like 3:46. the sad part is all this post probably does is prompt a snarky response from him/her/them....
Schedule and brackets are completely different than yesterday when they were released. Personal opinion-- they made a mistake putting SSM where they did. I thought they were in the right division yesterday. SSM has played the Dynamo team EP has in their bracket and beaten them by a couple goals. Dynamo is a good team that is big, strong, and talented.
5:37- The same way that SSM U16s were allowed into MRL this Fall. Kind of like Groundhog Day around here sometimes, isn't it? Someone earlier mentioned qualifying for State Cup in 2010-- how about this coming May (2009)? I believe that you will see four, possibly five SSM teams in State Cup this year (U16 girls, U18 girls, U16 boys?, U17 boys, U18 boys).
1:58 AM ( get some sleep) I said with SSM playing in the south district this spring it should push others Lakeville,Burnsville,REV etc. to raise THEIR level of play which should benefit them (Lakeville Burnsville, REV etc.) in the future including MYSA state Tournament this summer and next years State Cup.
Sorry for the confusion, my post wasn't real clear.
BTW how will SSM move a team into MYSA at a C1 or Premier level without technically earning the spot? I don't question the ability of the teams but don't MYSA teams earn their spots by accumulating 75% or more of the avaliable points at the lower class? Isn't 13 and under the only ages a team can declare a C1 spot? How willl this work?
Disappointing draws for MN teams at CASL. Woodbury will have the opportunity to at least play some lower level ranked regional teams but no strong teams. The other teams will have very poor competition.
If all of the SSM teams didn't play in MYSA league or MWL they aren't eligible for State Cup according to MYSA rules. Did SSM have 3 boys teams play in MWL?
That's a bad break for Woodbury. To travel all that way and have all that expense to play teams of that caliber isn't really worth the time and/or money.
722 you are correct that as far as competition goes it is not worthwhile. However the main reason to travel to showcase tournaments is for exposure to college coaches which all these teams will accomplish.
The only team with reason for disappointment is SSM 18 as at that age the only reason to travel is for competition. I would think almost all their players committed to colleges long ago. Perhaps they have some U17's thou that have yet to commit.
BTW-- I retract my statements of very early this morning regarding anything having to do with the boys' side at SSM. I have no direct knowledge of anything the boys' side plans or is doing....therefore I should not have said anything about them at all. No one has officially told me that any of the boys teams will be playing in State Cup-- it was an assumption on my part.
Sorry if my assumption has caused anyone undue stress, strain, or long distance calls to thier MYSA District Director.
Since you were up at 130am, spending time on this blog site, I will let your assumption(s) pass this time.
as for the Shattuck 18Gs, yes we have 17s on the team and Im not upset with any of the teams we are playing!! Matter of Fact, If a certain college team advances to the Final Four, they are going to come watch a player on on Shattuck. :)
I'm confused. Please clarify. Is SSM going to play in MYSA league play? If so how do they get their teams older than u-13 get a spot at a C1 or premier level being they haven't earned the spot in prior league play. Is there a provision for petitioning MYSA for an exception to the "normal" way of earning this play level? I agree the teams they would register would easily be of that play level, just curious on the process. Thanks for any info anyone can provide.
I cannot say if SSM is planning to enter into MYSA league play. Here I do with assumptions again, but my opinion is that they would not participate in anything other than MRL and State Cup. But, that is JUST MY OPINION.
Its not my worry any longer who plays who in what league etc..You guys will all learn that as you go. Im gonna hand over my cystal ball to SSMSC.
All of this talk about what U12 team has what player, where they are seeded, that this U14 team will win state cup instead of that other team..the good ol'e days for sure!!
12:40 - what rankings are you using? I hope not GotSoccer as all that is based on is points accumalated in tournaments. the more tournament, the more points, the higher the ranking.
NSR (which IMO is a bit more accurate) has them at #24 in R1 with no national ranking. It is rare that a team that lost in their State Cup semi's would achieve the kind of national ranking that GotSoccer might have them at. There is also a reason they are not in the National League this year (they went 0-6 with 2 goals for and 19 against last year and were relegated).
I'm not saying they aren't a solid team, but just trying to set the record straight.
I agree,the so called rankings..they mean nothing. For example, Eclipse 18s will be playing at CASL without 3 players that were all on the U17 World Cup team, big time players, 2 keepers and the starting left back. That will be huge for them, but all these people that play them and if they beat Eclipse are all going to be like, hey, we are good, we just beat #2 Eclipse. Just go down there and play. Why do you look up the rankings anyway?? I sure hope you do not share this info with your player prior to any of the games do you???
Why do people feel the constant need to make excuses for even possible losses by teams just because they are missing players, whether it be their current team or former team or no connection. Just go down there and play with the players you have. We hear how Notre Dame is banged up so Gophers have a chance, we hear how an MTA team has lost players to graduation, we hear how Eclipse is missing some players to callups etc etc etc. Who cares!! Every team misses players sometimes for injuries, callups, family conflicts whatever!! Everybody cut the excuse making, play the games and congratulate the winners.
gotsoccer has changed their system significantly in the last year...nsr is based solely on a single state representative's opinion, while gotsoccer is based on results at tournaments, showcases, etc., and extra pts are awarded for wins over state cup champs--quantity of pts given based on quality of event and teams played not merely the fact that you played in an event(i.e. USA cup winner awarded significantly less pts than Disney winner)...seems better to base rankings on results than on Gudrais's opinion...That being said i agree with 120's pt. that rankings never mean much
Maybe, but if you look at performance at major tourneys NSR is a much more accurate predictor of performance, particularly at older age levels. Gotsoccer system is better but still seriously flawed. They even give more emphasis to events that use their program for scheduling and results reporting.
The flaw with NSR rankings is simple. If you don't advance to the State Cup semi's, you don't get ranked in the top four in MN. Case in point. The current PSA U-17 Girls lost to WDB Inferno last year in the SC finals and are now deservedly ranked #2 behind WDB Inferno. However, in the two previous years PSA did not advance out of their own brackett, because they lost to Woodbury both years, even though they did not allow a goals in the other four games in those two previous years. This PSA team has dominated every other team in their age group in MN the past three years, yet never achieved a top four ranking because of their SC draw. Thus, the flaw in NSR rankings. It is quite safe to say that in this case PSA was clearly 2nd to the Inferno for the past three years, yet NSR didn't even mention PSA, but did the other three semi-finalist teams, though none of them could ever beat PSA more than in maybe one of five matches.
I don't think too many people are concerned with whether PSA is #2 or #3 or #10 in MN. It is regional and national rankings that are looked at by tourneys in seeding and NSR does a much better job there.
Most of the big events, including las veags showcase and many others, are now tied to gotsoccer in that teams are now required to use a gotsoccer program to apply for entry...these events that have partnered with gotsoccer use their ranking system in addition to profile provided by teams in determining who is and is not accepted.
I don't mean to say in any way that the rankings are meaningful or accurate, but merely that gotsoccer is being used more and more by those running the truly elite events
NSR only applies a ranking for US club soccer affiliated teams/clubs. strong local/regional teams may not be considered with this knockout. Gotsoccer is seriously flawed if you are a team in a state who has few if any Gotsoccer recognized tournaments. Mn has 5 tournaments that are recognized by gotsoccer (really only 3 with a copper or higher rating). It is a chicken or the egg senerio. You need gotsoccer rated teams playing in your tournament to have a bracket that will give any level of significant points. MN has so few recognized tournaments that few if any MN teams have any points so when even the best teams around here play in a tournament they rarely ever get points. Crazy, you need to travel to get points if you are from MN.
MN tournaments recognized by Gotsoccer.
#1 NSC Cup (Bronze) #2 USA Cup (Bronze) #3 Dakota Rev invitational (Copper) #4 Wings (Not rated) #5 Apple Valley (Not Rated)
Go to any southern state and they will have nearly all of their tournaments rated, which of course means any average team will have a team ranking which will provide the tournament flight a tournament ranking which will mean points for the teams placing as at least a semi finalist.
I hope that makes sence, I mean my description not the rating formula.
Exactly that is why got soccer rankings are very inaccurate. They only reflect the events that use their program and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. USYS events, MRL and many tournaments do not use them and their results are not reflected.
Another problem with gotsoccer is that they award points to flight winners in showcase tournaments with no consideration to the strength of the flight. A weak flight winner or finalist will get points while a team in a strong flight that does not do well receives no points. It is simply a flawed system.
Last year's SSM U16s had the Dynamo team come in for two games (the older Dynamo 90 or 91s? came also to play the U18s). On Saturday, the SSM U16s played the Dynamo 93s. Beat them easily on Saturday (can'tremember the score....but it wasn't a close game in play). Then, on Sunday the SSM U16s were slated to play the same team...only to have players from the older Dynamo take the field. The SSM U16s lost pretty badly in that game-- like 4-1?
As far as the rankings, again...it is like Groundhog day! But given the earlier conversation regarding why people travel to ShowCase tournaments, not sure it matters. All anyone is looking for are competitive games that the players can "showcase" thier talents (see the connection there?).
Got soccer also awards bonus points for defeating a team with more points than you according to you, you guessed it, got soccer. It is a self contained system that perpetuates its inaccuracies because the program does not know any better.
Rankings have absolutely no value in either system unless my kid's team is ranked, in which case I will say they have no value only to those who have kids on higher rated teams.
Nonetheless, I will brag incessantly about the ranking to those whose kids are on unranked teams, or who have no kids at all, or anyone around the office whom I will be sure to annoy to no end.
Furthermore, the more accurate rating system is the one that has my kid's team ranked highest.
As no ranking system currently has my kid's team ranked, they all bite rotten eggs.
Sorry I need some background help after reading this blog I'm confused as to set up of MN youth soccer. I always thought you had to play in the MYSA league to advance to State Cup. Winners move on to regions, then nationals. If that is correct (may not be) then how are teams getting into state cup with out playing league first?
All of the above statements are accurate regarding the ranking services and the reactions people have to them as illustrated beautifully by 8:48. The problem is many of the out of State Tournaments are using the Gotsoccer rankings as a significant measurement of a teams worthyness for acceptance to their tournament. Obviously winning State Cup is the best way to build a teams Resume` but that only helps one team per age group. Traveling to higher rated tournaments in other states will help, attending only MN tournaments that are recognized will help , but when we are so limited for point generating tournaments within reasonable driving distance it is a real problem for the good to very good C1 or Premier team that wants to travel to top level out of state Tournaments. Anyone have any ideas on how to overcome this regional problem we have in the upper midwest? Thanks.
I don't mean to come off as a jerk, but if an mn team is not doing well at the local tournaments like usa cup, nsc, etc, or relatively close events like just for girls in iowa or some events in illinois, they probably don't deserve to be admitted into elite tournaments like casl, disney, las vegas and the like as these tournaments accept teams that have the proven ability to compete with and beat teams that are atleast very strong regionally. Keep in mind that we are talking about minnesota soccer where there are maybe two teams at each age group that have had success against regionally or nationally reputable teams. Obviously there are a couple age groups with 3-4 strong teams, but i think you get my point.
To answer your question, we can not overcome this "regional problem",because our local tournaments do not draw strong teams. However, you can bypass this issue by doing the following:
younger teams (u12-15) that find themselves in this situation should start at lower level(relatively speaking) events. If they are consistently having success(finalists, champions), then apply to slightly better events the next time around. teams generally cannot start at the bottom and immediately jump to the top...a gradual progression is the way to go.
At 16-17s the primary point of traveling is to allow them to play in front of college coaches. At these age groups you should, first and foremost, apply to mrl as it is likely that a good premier team will be admitted. mrl is a relatively cheap way to get 6-9 games against solid competition and also provides kids an opportunity to play in front of college coaches at the d3,2 and lower d1 levels. In addition, apply to tournaments that are located near larger cities, like Chicago, Indianapolis, as well as and any here locally. Have your individual players contact coaches at colleges they are interested in attending in and around those areas where the event is being held. Unless its some big time d1 program, coaches will come to watch players that contact them if it is convenient for them to do so regardless of the quality of the event.
4:11 First thanks for the response, second you didn't come off as a jerk, third your ideas are correct.
I still want to highlight a problem for our(minnesotas) stronger U11 to U15 teams. Gotsoccer ratings are widely being considered as a major indicator for acceptance to the larger more highly rated tournaments. It is difficult to get in too these tournaments without a Gotsoccer rating in the top 100. We all seem to agree that the ranking is seriously flawed (see above posts for all of the reasons) but it is one f the larger indicators many out of state tournaments use. NSC fall tournament and MYSA's Harvest Fest ,our only Fall tournaments, were not even recognized by Gotsoccer. If you win NSC summer and USA Cup you will have earned very few points as they are both Bronze level Tournaments. The only other rated tournament was Dakota Rev's and it was only rated Copper (fewer points yet). Most other states have nearly all of their local club tournaments recognized Illinois has 24 rated tournaments. My point is that it is easier for those teams in those states to get points toward a rating than it is for our MN teams. I guess the answer is to encourage all community tournaments to register with Gotsoccer. BTW I agree the ratings are basically meaningless,just wish they werent such a major factor for entry into other tournaments around the country. Real answer : win State Cup and it doesn't matter.
for the most part of you are a premiere team in MN, you can get into most any tournament that you want, basically if you are a premiere team there is nothing that you have to worry about, you will get into any tourney that you want, if you have other things that make you stick out such as success in state cup or MRL then you will be just more impressive looking and get into the higher bracket or be more of a lock
12:00 you are wrong, most premier teams in MN will get into the top showcases, ie., Vegas, Disney. they may not be in top bracket, but they will get in
1200 is correct. Just check the tournament teams over the years. I also know of several instances of MN Premier league teams not getting into Disney and Vegas.
You think MYSA MN Premier means anything on the regional or national stage? No chance at using that on an application and getting into the top national tournaments.
My DD played for a MN Premier team for years. They were unable to be accepted into the highest level national tournaments. In retrospect should have gone to more regional tournaments at a younger age (12-14) to establish a resume.
lets all get honest here. MN might have one, maybe two teams at each group that can compete regionally. We are lucky to have one team nationally ranked (and almost always state cup champs) in an age group. These teams also rarely even play in MN Premier. to think that the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best teams in the state would ever get invited to the highest level tournaments is wishful thinking.
I agree..just for your information and anyone else who may care to know...if your team was a semifinalist or better in a tournament that gotsoccer does not currently recognize I would recommend creating a team id. At that point contact the gotsoccer peopl..they are more than willing to get into contact with the people running individual tournaments and take care of all of the administrative stuff on that end. Tournaments don't have to use gotsoccer for registration in order for the event to be recognized. there are just so many tournaments every year around the country that it is difficult for gotsoccer to 1. know that each exists and 2. obtain info to award pts corresponding to level of event.
If you have a team id and make them aware of the event, they will add it to their database. They seem to be truly intersted in creating a ranking system that is as accurate as it can be(yes, its all relative) and have been very accomodating once contacted.
If I may ask, why does it even matter?? Look how many MN girls from the past are all playing D1, for some nice top conference teams, and they didnt play Vegas, Surf, Disney. Shattuck didnt get into Vegas last yr either. Never tried to get into Disney, and we have players going to the Pac-10, ACC, Big-10, SEC.
With all due respect, the name Shattuck does as much/more for a player than does Vegas/Disney. No, not all players at Shattuck are "elite" level, but a college coach is going to see them in a competitive environment and be able to evaluate them against other "elite" players, which is the reson for attending a top showcase event in the first place.
I agree, other than the the Stars, WDB and Wings at 18, WDB and PSA at 17, MTA and EDP at 16, no other U-16 to U-18 teams from MN can compete out of state. just check showcase or MRL results. From these seven teams will come your top recruits the next three years.
Most SSM players you speak of (yours included) were already on the national radar, through ODP, region or national teams etc, when they got to SSM. What their SSM team accomplished was not that important to their recruitment. For players not in that position it is important to get out and be seen. The coaches go to these showcases. Players need to also. Doesn't always have to be Vegas or Disney or WAGS. Players who plan to stay in Midwest can attend Blue Chip, Crossroads etc and gain exposure there. Larger clubs are also beginning to host showcases of their own.
2:36, Been There (Nice name by the way)....You are correct, players DO need to go play in showcases, I totally agree, what Im trying to say is, you dont need all this GotSoccer, NSR and all these rankings to be able to go to Disney and Vegas. There are some great showcases like you mentioned, Blue Chip, Crossroads, the indoor tournament held in Omaha coming up for scouts like KU, Neb, ISU, Creighton, Drake, CU..Been there, done that.
And contray, we have players not playing ODP (never played) that will be attending Big-10 and ACC.
I just think any of this talk about winning to gain points for rankings is important. Its just my opinion is all.
other than canadian kids, how many kids that will be playing in the ACC or Big-10 have not at least played for their state ODP team?? (unfortunately, the fancy spreadsheet doesn't have that info).
1:37, U-17 boys have MTA, SSM, Blackhawks, Valley, Arsenal, St. Croix, Westside, All of who have had success at the regional and national level over the years, so there are age groups that can have that depth
6:24: I agree, define regional or national success. You're telling us all seven of these teams have had success out of state? Who you think you're kidding?
MTA - lost in regional final at u-13, still very competitive, added depth to team this season Arsenal - played in the national league last season, MRL premier, regional semifinalist at U-14 and U-15 St. Croix - state cup champ U-16, advanced to MRL premier Valley - advanced to MRL first division playoffs, USA cup weekend Champs Blackhawks - state cup semifinalist, also semifinalist in denmark cup 2008 Westside - state cup semifinalist, played in Vegas last year where they had two ties and a lost, not too shabby for a tourney that everyone has been talking about on here as one that few MN teams have a chance at getting in SSM - pretty self explanitory that they are very good, they have 7 MN kids on the U-17 team
Is this enough out of state success for you or do you want more because there are more tournaments in Cali and Texas that these teams have gone to as well, If anyone wants to watch some great soccer this summer check out this age group, they are the real deal and the best and deepest this state has seen in a long long time
Considering there is only one flight at U-16 boys it wasnt one of the lowest flight, and if that is the only thing that you can come up with I'm sorry that the age group is only 6 deep and not 7, but I would say they still did pretty well for themselves, and there are still 3 other MN premier teams not noted on that previous list at all, I would say it is a deep deep very talented age group
MTA hasnt gotten back to regions because the age group is so deep, not because they arent talented, Arsenal, St. Croix, MTA, Valley, Westside, Wings (now fused into MTA) and blackhawks all played MRL as well
4:12..a player from MI never played ODP and a player from IA played some ODP. If you want to call it that. ACC Va Tech and Big10 Iowa. Both of these schools came up to Shattuck and watched them play prior tournaments.
This conversation is basically completely useless. The true secret is to make a list, have the player contact the coaching staff and the rest can be worked out.
The coaches at top programs are already working the 2011s....so don't sit back and wait for your club to do the work for you. This isn't about THEM....it is about YOUR child and thier future.
If you are waiting to attend one of these "top tournaments" where a coach will magically pluck your child from thier team by chance-- good luck. It likely won't happen.
Be proactive, get your kid's name out from the pile of 500 on the coach's desk. BUT-- these coaches don't want to talk to YOU (the parent). They want to talk to the kids, it is more than just a player who shows well.
Amos Magee joins the Timbers as assistant coach and Director of Soccer Development. Why didn't MTA retain him? Seems like a great opportunity to take advantage of him with the academy. Is MTA not as strong as they try to make it appear? - stadium plans shelved, it's been posted elsewhere they aren't even building the beer garden they promised fans due to lack of funding for the contractors. - Gramenz hired as head coach. Nothing against him, but what happend to all the big names they were going to bring in? - Amos gone to the Timbers as Dir of Soccer Development - Tod H leaves MTA Urban Director gig for another job - According to the players, they have not received their end of the year payments as of yet. Anyone know what is going on?
amos and todd are as shady as they come. if you have ever had either of them as coach you would know this. ask anyone who has played for them at the youth or thunder level(except for paye, the favorite)what kind of people they are. the way they do things results in their players hating the game. look at the difference gramen made in a matter of days. its sad that they ever put the thunder or any youth team in their hands.
Sooner or later you knuckle heads will get it. Number of kids playing has gone up but not enough quality coaches. In Minn anybody can be a coach. For example in Ill to be an elite coach you go through an apprentice period for a few years.You learn from other elite coaches. Not the case here so don't expect the quality of players to increase significantly.
anon 1:59, The quality of players here in Minnesota has been increasing rapidly and will continue to do so. Just look back 8-10 years and see how our teams fared at Region 2 championships. Many times just scoring a few goals was considered a success much less winning a match! Now look over the past 4-5 years and see how we've done. Another measuring stick is to look at the number of Minnesota players making the Region 2 teams. 8-10 years ago you could count them on 1 hand. Now count them again the past 3-4 years. We're light years ahead of where we were and will continue to improve. The main reason in my opinion is the number of coaches today who actually played the game at a competitive level. 10 years ago we still had the hockey, football, baseball dad who knew sports and tried their best to coach soccer. Today we have hundreds of young coaches in their 20s and 30s who played in HS and college teaching these kids from day 1. The great thing is these young men and women know the game and will only improve as they get more years under their belt as coaches. Minnesota will continue to improve every year. Maybe not as dramatically as we have the last 10 but progress will continue as more young kids are exposed to better coaching at younger ages.
Big names and licenses don't make for good coaches. Ditto for "having played the game". I've been around a long time. I've seen many great players of many sports. Most of them are not good coaches. Also, in soccer we put stock in our licensing system like it's going to make a good coach. I've seen many,many licensed coaches that were very poor. Coaching is 90% desire and effort. This usually comes with commitment to an end (which a parent usually has). One of the greatest coaches in the sport of volleyball in MN was the retired Apple Valley coach (Walt Weaver I believe) who never played volleyball. There are examples in other sports as well. Assuming that some young ex-college soccer player will be good coach is ignorant thinking.
10:08 - many solid points and hard to disagree with. Do you believe that the quality and quantity of players in this state has improved? And if so - why? If not - why not?
I believe it is a couple of things. There are more knowledgeable people at he top of clubs. The DOCs are soccer people who may or may not be good coaches themselves. They do in many cases know how to direct the clubs. I also think we have lots of kids playing soccer. Numbers is a huge factor in any sport. Kids are also specializing and for a heavily skills biased/based sport like soccer this is crucial.
Of course soccer is getting better in this state. For years the only teams that did well at high level out of state tournaments were the Tsunami Sota and St. Croix girls teams at older ages. The only younger teams that accomplished anything were Bangu Stars girls and PSA boys. Now we have many younger and older teams from multiple clubs that have at least some regional success.
8:18-- I certainly haven't heard this. I don't see it as a realistic rumor either. The soccer program has brought many students to Campus, and is seeing success. Can't imagine going from National Runner-up one year to talking about dis-banding the next.
will someone from mta please explain what's going on with some of the white teams. are they still recruiting from other teams or are they taking those who have tried out? these so-called try-outs are continuing to smell like a slush-fund-raiser! please dispel.
NO punking about it, Shattuck just got screwed..Won the 1st Div, and MRL did not promote any teams. Shattuck beat 3 other teams last yr in MRL that will be playing Premier as well. Great Question isnt it. But what can you do? Cry about it, wont do any good will it?
Anonymous said... They probably looked at who the competiton was and punked out.
24/11/08 11:17 PM
-------------------- Competition huh?? Beat Ft Wayne last yr in MRL 6-0, Beat Blast last yr in MRL a bunch to zero, yea, real highly competitive teams they let in.
10's dad don't take the bait, just idiots trying to get people fired up. If you look at the MRL guidelines on how teams get in you understand the reasoning. The teams are judged for Premier admittance on what they did the previous Spring at that age group. SSM played U18 last year so probably was not considered as they were not a "returning" team from last years U17 and did not take part in the playoffs. Also the fall league performance this year does not enter into the Spring league formation. SSM is obviously a Premier league level team and if they had played U17 last year would undoubtedly be in. Just the way MRL works.
Thanks 1108, not getting fired up, just the way it is, I know that there are clubs in the Region that do not want us playing, and its more than MN. Leave it at that. Its youth, and its a shame that youth teams and coaches think its all about the wins. Sure, I would love to watch SSM play Bangu/MTA or even Lightning, but you know what, you cant play them if they dont want to play you. Same can be said for Eclipse, they dont want to play Shattuck either. Who freaking cares if Eclipse or MTA or anyone for that matter wins, big deal. I hope MTA can win MRL PRemier and stamp their ticket to Regionals, then maybe there will be 2 MN teams in for U18. Im sure Shattuck will use this lesson as a no respect sort of thing during State Cup.
10's dad I don't think it has anything to do with respect. As you probably know MRL is big on the letter of the law and according to their promotion guidelines SSM does not qualify for MRL U18 Premier this spring. Please don't pull out the no respect line, otherwise you may be lumped in with a certain local pro team that has been reciting that mantra for decades. :)
I would not be looking for MTA to be the second MN team at regions. That team has been regressing anyway and with the players they lost to graduation will likely lose to WDB at State Cup and/or MRL anyway.
ssm 18s were in the u-18 mrl 1st division last spring...the fort wayne and blast teams that they beat were u-18s last year as well, while the fort wayne and blast teams in the 2009 18 spring prmeier division played mrl at the u17 age group last year. In other words, ssm did not play either team you claim to have played. those are the facts...you are comparing apples to oranges
Not sure about nobody caring about the U-18's...I could make an argument that this should be the pinacle of ones youth career..If these teams are just playing out the string before college, then they are indeed missing the most important year of youth soccer...unfortunatly this attitude is more than prevelant in our soccer society..anyway..SSM is a premiere team...I don't think 10's dad was whining..I myself find this petty posturing amoung clubs and organizations very counter productive...I mean can anyone honestly give me a reason why ssm, mta, wsc or anyone else would not compete in the 1st qtr of 09?...Please spare me the state cup crap of we never play each other...that's garbage and, if I recall on the boy's side juventus played ssm last year and it looks like mta is playing the 18's again this year...
OMG not this again already. It is very touching that so many concern themselves with who plays who and when. Please though, if it is important to you and somehow any of your business please contact the coaches of the teams involved and ask them for the basis of their decisions. You can also explain to them why you care. Nobody else does.
2:42 do you mean like how MTA directors and coaches stay out of other clubs and teams business? Such as ripping on teams that tried MRL in the fall and struggled? Telling kids and parents that their coaches and DOC's were no good? How about calling it what it is, SSM is a major threat to MTA and they are afraid, the coaches not the players.
LOL again 317 why do you care? I am not 242 or affiliated with any of the clubs involved but cannot figure out why this is such a topic of interest? If a team does not play or scrimmage another team so what? I don't get it.
329 are you saying teams don't play games? You seem more interested in how many games they play and against who. Your interest stems from what again? If a team is hurting itself by not playing games isn't that their problem? If they are not hurting themselves then why would they play these games? Are they under some obligation to aid others? Again, why such interest?
MTA u18s play friendlies all the time against former D1 players like Smith and Hahn. Occasionally scrimmage the Lightning. That's what they prefer to do. More power to em.
If SSM is so good why aren't they playing against other academies that recruit nationally rather than whine in here why they can't get game with Minnesota kids.There must be academies in FL or Tx that would like to play them.SSM should go out and challenge them.
10's dad you should know by now that there isn't really anything anyone can say about anything that cannot somehow be the basis for an anti MTA diatribe. SSM is now a favorite proxy as some think it lends legitimacy to the attacks. Watch for posts slamming SSM purportedly by an MTA person in order to give these people an excuse for a rant. Don't bite although I know it can be difficult.
I think it is great that we are having this argument about what teams made it to the MRL Premier Division and why or why not.
What SHOULD be the topic here is not who is "whining" about what... the focus should be on the fact that MN is not represent in 2009 Spring Season MRL from U16 to U18. Where is the outrage at why NONE of the clubs in MN can't seem to muster the quality it takes to get into the Premier Division of MRL.
Wake up, quit arguing about who is better-- it doesn't matter when 98% of ALL MN teams SUCK.
3:21, 15 Blue got in because of their record in MRL last year, because their Regional semi finalist status, and mainly because many of the Premier teams drop out to play HS. The 15s should in the top group of what is left for sure. I find it more surprising that the Whites are not there based on their performance last year. They are the only two MN teams with any proven regional track record at this age group, most should agree with that.
SSM WILL Never Play In the girls MWRL Premier league against good competition due to fact that U18 never the same members qualifying from younger U-17 age group and their younger U-16 team will unlikely have enough talent to win 1st division to qualify following year as 17 . Only chance for SSM to have done this was year ago but due to off the field behavior blew their chance.
The other factor in SSM girls consideration is the very little game pressure with no conference race, elimination tournaments, or few games that matter for something. Have seen their teams wilt in state cup, MWRL 1st div., shoots outs, and against teams with greater depth. Their trips to California and Tennessee have been disasters. The ssm regional or national ODP players with the much higher scholarships are subsidized by the parents of less talented players who pay considerably more to attend there. Ironically the off the field wayward incidents are usually players who are given the most generous amounts of scholarships and usually held less accountable for their actions.
I've posted in debate with south campus before on here. However, I would prefer to see USYS make an exception for programs like SSM and allow them to compete in MRL or like leagues. This to me is far more of an equitable option that allowing a program like that to compete in one single state.
I just heard that MYSA denied 2 MTA teams of MRL play, only then to have MTA complain about SSM, forcing MYSA to eat shoe and deny SSM play as well. I know, I know, this is rumor but an interesting new one. Comments?
Second, mysa has nothing to do with the premier division decision process, but merely have the ability to recommend teams for mrl league play.
Third, mysa did recommend these teams but the mrl rejected them.
As to ssm specifically, there was one spot open in the u18 premier division and the mrl commissioner went with a state cup champion over all other applicants(ssm was a statecup semifinalist)...the other 9 teams in the premier division either retained their spot from last year or earned it via promotion last spring.
9:57- I would hardly call a 1-0 loss in State Cup, and a thorough whooping of all MN competition (on the boys side) "wilting" in State Cup. What exactly is a "shoots outs" (PKs at the end of a game or something else)? And which of the two trips to Tennessee for the Brentwood Tournament are you referring to as disasters? You are absolutely correct about the last two....they were rained out so it was a disaster that they traveled, but didn't get to play. Not sure what other Tennessee trip you are referring to? Maybe you don't either?
I also don't think that you have facts straight about the Regional and National Level players being subsidized by the "less talented players". Mine would be classified as the "less talented player" category by your terms, and I know that I am not subsidizing anyone. Again, I will say this- ultimately what you pay is based upon financial need (minus an amount given for athletic scholarship). Unless you are someone "inside" SSM, you would have no idea whatsoever what you speak of. None of us parents even know what the other parents pay....how would you?
You have absolutely no credibility with anyone here who knows how things really work at SSM. I guess it is very worthwhile for you to continue to be an Anon....as that way we will never know who to attribute your ignorance to.
12:10- Not sure what exactly happened, but your rumor has a lot of substance. I can't comment, not because I don't want to....but because I don't understand the politics behind the issue. I would like to go on record to say that of all the stupid, short sighted decisions I have heard about which have been made by MYSA-- they never cease to amaze me. So, to those who like to complain about "Nationally recruited SSM teams" spending thier time beating up on MN teams- you are really going to hate SSM this Spring. You have won a small battle, but ultimately lost the fight. Be careful what you wish for, folks....it just may come true. This is the last you'll hear from me on this subject (unless I hear WHO caused the issue, and exactly what the issue is). If anyone has information from the MYSA meetings, please inform the group how this all went down. Seems like "someone" in some MN club is nervous and has pulled some political strings?
SSMSouth, Here's what I've heard but it's 2nd hand info so it may not be 100% accurate. A couple of traditional MYSA clubs' teams were denied access to MRL by the MYSA gatekeeper because the teams were newly formed and didn't participate in the MYSA leagues last season. When they were advised of this they in turn asked why would the SSM teams be admitted to MRL since those teams were not in MYSA leagues last season. Asking in effect why are the SSM teams being given special treatment? Rather than admitting a bias or error the gatekeeper decided that none of these new teams, including SSM teams, would be allowed into MRL. Is this the right thing to do? Probably not, but that's our MYSA for ya!
Not sure I understand this. SSM is already in the MRL on girls side, is this discussion about boys? MYSA cannot tell MRL who to make Premier. Also are we talking about MYSA leagues (which they do control)? the 1234 post is the most accurate
First, ssm does compete in the mrl.
Second, mysa has nothing to do with the premier division decision process, but merely have the ability to recommend teams for mrl league play.
Third, mysa did recommend these teams but the mrl rejected them.
As to ssm specifically, there was one spot open in the u18 premier division and the mrl commissioner went with a state cup champion over all other applicants(ssm was a statecup semifinalist)...the other 9 teams in the premier division either retained their spot from last year or earned it via promotion last spring."
yes yes yes...ssm will most likely never compete in girls premiere with there current format of two teams....this still does not answer the question of mta and the likes not doing friendlies..does it.
They just aren't going to give up on that are they? Too funny. Perhaps there should be a State scheduling board which will give teams their off season schedules of who they have to play against and when. 815 and 819 can head it up. They know what is better for a teams development than the team does.
LOL now that the motivations have been exposed and the emptiness of arguments illuminated let the name calling begin. I was wondering what the Coleman and Franken ad writers were going to do after the election.
Yes, the name calling has begun and the attempt at dialog diminished.
I know SSM already competes in MRL. Maybe I should have been more clear. I would like to see USYSA mandate that programs like SSM, which are extremely beneficial to the growth of soccer in this country, play in regional/national leagues to pursue a national title run rather than compete in single state competitions. That is a simple statement of opinion.
The MYSA gatekeeper as one poster called her is an incompetent, vindictive leader who does not understand where this game is headed in the US. Administrators like her should be left out of key soccer decisions regardless of their title or position. Where was our state director of coaching on this?
I think it's great to see all the MN teams in the MRL Premier leagues. We benefit from most other states playing high school soccer in the spring and would not have the numbers in that league if all region 2 states fielded their top teams, but nevertheless good luck to all who play next spring... regardless of their club affiliation.
I think it is great that they get a chance to play in the premier league and that they belong there, was just curious how they got in.
As far as the white team pretty sure they will do well this season and hopefully they get in next year. The good news now those two teams want have to play eachother like 5 times this season
9:16, calling you an idiot hater is name calling. Speaking my mind about a person's qualities seen through my own filters is an observation based on experience. Why are you so put out? Why can't you get past a club that no longer exists? Why do you have to chime in at all with nothing productive to contribute?
an incompetent, vindictive leader who does not understand where this game is headed in the US. Administrators like her should be left out of key soccer decisions regardless of their title or position. That qualifies as hateful name calling
Sounds like it's up to each coach at MTA to decide who they want to play. That's the way it should be in my opinion. Who knows what their team needs more than the coach?
It just occurred to me that MTA is also the acronym for the Metro Transit Authority. That should make for some good jokes as players are enticed to "get on the bus." Did the Thunder marketing team (and his friends) anticipate this? Can I get a free bus pass for my kid (!) if he learns to speak gu ("cc," "hater," "MYSA is evil," and such phrases)? Happy Thanksgiving hater haters!
Have a nice holiday haters. Pathetic though humorous. You continue to represent the ignorance and envy that has come to be associated with anti-MTA people. What's that you say? There is also a negative stigma against people supporting MTA? Hmmmm. Guess we'll take that negativity while walking in the company of the Chicago Fire, NY Red Bulls, FC Dallas, etc, etc, (those are MLS teams in case you didn't know that) as well as FC Barca, Man U, AC Milan, Monaco FC, US Soccer, FIFA, etc, etc. To each their own though minds like yours have no place within programs like ours, SSM's, and other similar ones who continue to pave the way for soccer in this country while haters like you watch and steam. Try joining MYSA where your feelings are echoed. Condescending? Darn tooting I am and not afraid to say it like it is.
2,440 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1001 – 1200 of 2440 Newer› Newest»Just a question...no disrespect..
Why would a parent send their kid to SSM. I live in Edina.Excellent academics. Year around club training here in TC.
I'm sure the tuition at SSM isn't cheap. What do you get at SSM that we don't have here in Edina?
What are the selling points?
Maybe the SSM folks who post here could help out on this.
Thanks
Maybe they don't live in a metro area for starters.
Posted here before, the future of true elite soccer is and will be residential academies like SSM. For the past few years Bangu now MTA have staked 90% of their recruiting on their huge success at winning State Cup titles. Now SSM threatens them at two ages 16 & 18 When MTA can no longer win those age divisions much more of the shine will be off. That explains the whining on here about fairness. The rich part is the whining coming from the club that has done more rule bending that anyone!
Why would a parent send their kid to SSM? Well, I can only give you the reasons that our daughter is at SSM. So....
We live in a rural area in Iowa where it was 50 miles each way for training three nights a week. Teams were full of players who weren't soccer specific, and it took a back-seat to other "commitments". And this is a 3x State Cup Championship team! She wanted and needed more to give it her best shot at becoming the best player she could be. She gave up a lot, but her commitment seems to be paying off (if she can stay healthy).
The opportunity to attend SSM gave her two things:
1) DAILY training with like minded players. Great facilities, including weight room that would make many Colleges blush. Highly qualified Coaches (A-License, previous College Coaches) who do it right. Teach fundamentals and tactics, willing to work with kids outside of normal training sessions.
2) Very good academics (pre-med courses with internships Jr and Sr year at Mayo for example), and many other intangibles that are hard to describe. There is a huge alumni base out there who are very well placed. I would best characterize it like the Masonic handshake.... the alumni do take care of thier own. Also, she has friends at school whose parents are top Executives at Apple, HP, IBM, CEOs at very large respected hospitals and such....networking starts here. As adults, I am sure you can see how this is helpful?
I can promise you that soccer-wise, academic-wise, and maturity level-wise.....my child is far ahead of where she would have been had she stayed home. As a matter of fact, one of the biggest selling points was given to me not from the school by more than one a D-1 College Coach (one from the Big Ten the other from Missouri Valley Conf Coach). I was told by these Coaches that they would be happy to bring any of the SSM kids into thier program for two reasons. First, they are used to a very rigorous educational (very college-like) atmosphere coupled with daily training schedule. These kids learn to manage thier time efficiently and coaches would feel very comfortable they could handle college life. And secondly, the kids are mature. They can take care of themselves and college freedoms don't seem to effect them as much....this is VERY noticeable when they come home.
Tuition is a factor, but select soccer has real expenses associated as well. All in all we find SSM to be about a wash financially once you factor in the five-day a week 100 mile per session trek (including weekend games), food (she eats like a horse), and club fees. Our payment is "all in"-- no extra coaching fees, travel fees, or dome fees. Scholarships can be given for soccer which account for considerable savings on the tuition, but financial aid for those who need it can fill a lot of the rest of the gap.
Bottom line- My kid is very happy there. She WAS hesitant at first, but a campus visit was all it took for her to realize it was the right place for her. I always caution people though-- IT ISN'T FOR EVERYONE. IT TAKES A SPECIAL BREED OF KID TO BE ABLE TO ATTEND SSM. They have to be driven, confident, self-disciplined kids. If a kid has behavioral problems at home, guess what? They will definately find a way to get into trouble at school. I think people would find that if they just look into the program with an open mind, it really isn't a terrible option. It would have been so much easier for us to make the decision if we'd lived in Minnesota. I can't fathom having the opportunity to have my kid be a "day student" at SSM and live at home-- and NOT SENDING THEM?! Tution for day students starts out at 1/2 the listed price for boarders....you get the benefits but your kid sleeps in your house at night. Talk about having your cake and eating it too? But, everyone has choices to make...your circumstances aren't the same as mine. Not all kids are the same. I would NEVER criticize anyone for making decisions different than I would. Maybe OS's dad will speak up and testify to this on my behalf? I have tried to convince him, but it isn't right for her. Don't think I don't stil give him a hard time about it....but I know it isn't right for her. We remain friends, and don't fight over it. To each their own. THAT IS WHAT IS BEAUTIFUL ABOUT MINNESOTA-- YOU HAVE OPTIONS MOST DON'T HAVE. But, we argue every day on this blog about how stupid someone else is for making the decision they make with thier kids.
In the words of Forrest Gump...."that's all I have to say about that".
SSMSouthCampus
WRITE A BOOK
anon 10:22,
Soon both MTA and SSM will be part of the USSF Academy program.
At that point neither of them will be allowed to compete in Minnesota State Cup with the teams/age groups that participate in the USSF Academy.
Based on that MTA and SSM will be on equal footing.
That will also open up the doors for the CCs to begin winning State Cup championships in those specific age groups.
will mysa put an asterisk next to those championships on their website?
I can hear it now, as soon as SSM dominates State Cup, the MTA crowd will be downplaying the importance of State Cup. Watch and see.
Thunder hire Gramenz as head coach. Wow. I think the Thunder were talking bigger than they walk.
8:02 - please see 6:58am's post as it is completely accurate. From U16 up, they will not be allowed to compete in State Cup as they will be part of the USSF Academy.
State Cup really isnt that important, its just a tool to advance and play in front of the next level. We have been there, won a Natl Championship with Eclipse, not going to lie, it was a great ride, however, when it comes to training, and getting ready for college, my dd is so much further ahead by attending Shattuck then she would of been playing with Eclipse and winning hardware. I can name alot of players that do not play for State Cup winners that are tops in their D1 Conferences and Natl teamers. People put way to much into WINNING State Cup. There are other options out there that can help your dd's get noticed. ODP is one tool, camps are another. And hard work away from training is another option. For us, SSM was the route SHE wanted to do and we havent looked back. I would suggest to anyone, call Shattuck, set up a date and go visit, ask to guest play or train with the team for a day. Its in your own back yard.
10s Dad
10's dad is correct. If you want to play college soccer play on a good club team that can get into the premier showcase tournaments that the coaches attend. If you do that and perform well when the coaches come to watch you will get offers. The only advantage to winning state cup is that it will help your team get into these tournaments, U15-U16 are the key years to win state cup so that you can get into the showcases the following year. By U17 the die has been cast as far as what tournaments you will get in. By U18 coaches have finished recruiting at that age group and players have all committed.
Heard a great quote today, I thought that it fit here pretty well.
“Respect your fellow human being, treat them fairly, disagree with them honestly, enjoy their friendship, explore your thoughts about one another candidly, work together for a common goal and help one another achieve it.”
Bill Bradley
Bangu has touted State Cup because that was the avenue used to help provide players with high level experiences. At U16 and U18 on the boys side, State Cup is not as highly valued now with the inception of US Soccer Dev Academy. Will MTA and SSM start downplaying the importance at these age groups. Of course because times change and there is a new best thing out there that both will take part in. At other age groups MTA and SSM will still put weight on State Cup as they should. CCs will have the chance to have State Cup champions at the U16 and U18 boys age groups without the threat of an "elite" club and those teams will go on to compete in a watered down regional and national run, gaining a positive experience relative to their skill level. Good thing for all I say.
What's the latest on the Germans. Which high school, which club, and are they boys or girls?
According to MYSA minutes, SSM is now an affliate club.
Good deal, strong elite programs like SSM make all soccer better. I guess MYSA is NOT always an impediment to elite soccer. A good decision let's give MYSA credit.
Good idea. Let's let a bunch of non-Minnesotan national caliber teams play against teams from Northfield, Prior Lake, and Farmington. MYSA sure backs elite soccer. Let's give them some well deserved credit.
Hold the phone, angry Goober. When MTA goes out, collects kids from all over the metro area, some western Wisconsin kids, a few foreign exchange kids going to local high schools, they are heralded as the great givers of high level soccer. They then go out and beat up on Northfield,Prior Lake, and Farmington. Where does your logic come from, further, at least at SSM a family has to make a truly tough decision to go there, not quite as easy as "my coach sucks I'm going to play at MTA". We all want SSM to be a strong program option for kids.
I am assumming and hoping that SSM is going to have a very limited number of teams and only teams of the C1 or Premier level of play. If so great bring them on and everyone else will have to find ways to compete against them. My guess is they won't try to pull a "Bangu" and have high level teams but also their version of the white,green and black teams like Bangu,now MTA had/has.
If the Thunder academy would have tried to be MN's "All Star Team" where everyone could buy in and support it they would have had much more success in Unifying MN soccer. The problem with that model of course is MONEY. Too few kids to support the organizational needs/expenses the current MTA has.
Good luck to SSM, I am glad to see a top level program (however very differently structured) as a part of the MN soccer scene.
I would guess they will play in the south for league play for non-Premier level teams. That should raise the level of play for the Lakeville,Burnsville,Dakota Rev,Valley United,Prior lake etc. clubs as they move into MYSA's State Tournament this summer and State Cup from 2010 and on.
not sure what the big concern is. how many teams can they possible have? on the girls side they might be able to field 2, maybe 3 and not much different with the boys. all at the older ages which will be a mute point once the USSF Academy program kicks in. it's not like kids from around the country are beating down the doors to move to faribault. take a peak at their teams on their website. 36 girls is all they have to show for their 3-4 years of effort and some of those players are barely premier. if you think they are going to sign up for some south C1 league you have nothing to worry about. if it allows them to play at state cup - good for them, although they already have that avenue through mrl. they went 1-1 this year, next year might be better-might be worse.
don't get me wrong, i wish them, mta, drev, ep, wdb, scv all the luck in the world (or more importantly that their players are happy and satisfied), just not sure what all the fuss is about.
SSM...thanks for the response to my question (Edina resident).
Made a lot of sense to me.
Thanks again.
3:46, hold the phone angry hater. You have absolutely no club who you are reacting to. I'm not a Goober and I'm not affiliated with MTA. Why does everyone in your little hater world have to be affiliated with MTA when they speak up against something MTA may be against. I don't know how MTA feels and I'm not basing their take on the posts of a few anons. You need to seek professional help for your bangphobia.
There is no way that SSM will play MN Premier League. They will stay in MRL and compete in State Cup with TWO teams on the girls' side and three teams on the boys' side.
For those who think they'll ever compete in anything lower than those levels, wake up. SSM will never be a threat to the likes of Lakeville, Prior Lake, Edina, or any other C-1 and lower MYSA team.
thank you 5:12 on behalf of everyone else along the way who might have been painted with the "goober" brush from posters like 3:46. the sad part is all this post probably does is prompt a snarky response from him/her/them....
If they are part of MYSA will they have to play at the lowest competitive level when entering MYSA as a U14 or U15 or U16 team?
They will also have to earn the right to play in MRL like any other MYSA team.
If they start a new U16 team next year, how can they play MRL right off the bat if they haven't played in State Cup yet?
Not hating, just questions.
Whatever happened to the announcement that was supposed to occur a week ago? Was it the hiring of the Thunder coach?
CASL Schedules out:
U18-19 SSM
Rush Nike (VA) #33 R1
Freestate Sharks (MD) NR
Ohio Elite Gold (OH) NR
U17 Woodbury
Central Delaware (DE) #22 R1
Classics Elite (TX)#31 R3
Birmingham United (AL)NR
U16 EP
Dynamo Red (IN)NR
Lower Dauphin (PA)NR
U16 SSM
Chantilly Courage (VA) NR
Wilson Explosion (NC) NR
EP has very good competition.
Dynamo Red is State Cup Runner up from Indiana
Lower Dauphin played in the National League last season.
SSM- Should win their group but may struggle winning the whole thing.
Woodbury should win all three of their games.
Schedule and brackets are completely different than yesterday when they were released. Personal opinion-- they made a mistake putting SSM where they did. I thought they were in the right division yesterday. SSM has played the Dynamo team EP has in their bracket and beaten them by a couple goals. Dynamo is a good team that is big, strong, and talented.
5:37- The same way that SSM U16s were allowed into MRL this Fall. Kind of like Groundhog Day around here sometimes, isn't it? Someone earlier mentioned qualifying for State Cup in 2010-- how about this coming May (2009)? I believe that you will see four, possibly five SSM teams in State Cup this year (U16 girls, U18 girls, U16 boys?, U17 boys, U18 boys).
SSMSouthCampus
1:58 AM ( get some sleep) I said with SSM playing in the south district this spring it should push others Lakeville,Burnsville,REV etc. to raise THEIR level of play which should benefit them (Lakeville Burnsville, REV etc.) in the future including MYSA state Tournament this summer and next years State Cup.
Sorry for the confusion, my post wasn't real clear.
BTW how will SSM move a team into MYSA at a C1 or Premier level without technically earning the spot? I don't question the ability of the teams but don't MYSA teams earn their spots by accumulating 75% or more of the avaliable points at the lower class? Isn't 13 and under the only ages a team can declare a C1 spot? How willl this work?
Disappointing draws for MN teams at CASL. Woodbury will have the opportunity to at least play some lower level ranked regional teams but no strong teams. The other teams will have very poor competition.
If all of the SSM teams didn't play in MYSA league or MWL they aren't eligible for State Cup according to MYSA rules.
Did SSM have 3 boys teams play in MWL?
That's a bad break for Woodbury. To travel all that way and have all that expense to play teams of that caliber isn't really worth the time and/or money.
722 you are correct that as far as competition goes it is not worthwhile. However the main reason to travel to showcase tournaments is for exposure to college coaches which all these teams will accomplish.
I believe the Dauphin team EP plays is ranked #22 in Region 1. That should be a somewhat good team at least.
The only team with reason for disappointment is SSM 18 as at that age the only reason to travel is for competition. I would think almost all their players committed to colleges long ago. Perhaps they have some U17's thou that have yet to commit.
7:15 and 7:22--
Be careful what you say....you don't want to eat any crow with any losses which may come from CASL after you put down the competition!
7:56-
You are correct, there are some U17's who are still moving down the college recruitment path.
SSMSouthCampus
BTW-- I retract my statements of very early this morning regarding anything having to do with the boys' side at SSM. I have no direct knowledge of anything the boys' side plans or is doing....therefore I should not have said anything about them at all. No one has officially told me that any of the boys teams will be playing in State Cup-- it was an assumption on my part.
Sorry if my assumption has caused anyone undue stress, strain, or long distance calls to thier MYSA District Director.
SSMSouthCampus
Since you were up at 130am, spending time on this blog site, I will let your assumption(s) pass this time.
as for the Shattuck 18Gs, yes we have 17s on the team and Im not upset with any of the teams we are playing!! Matter of Fact, If a certain college team advances to the Final Four, they are going to come watch a player on on Shattuck. :)
10s Dad
10"s Dad
Was it a dream?
I'm confused. Please clarify. Is SSM going to play in MYSA league play? If so how do they get their teams older than u-13 get a spot at a C1 or premier level being they haven't earned the spot in prior league play. Is there a provision for petitioning MYSA for an exception to the "normal" way of earning this play level? I agree the teams they would register would easily be of that play level, just curious on the process. Thanks for any info anyone can provide.
I cannot say if SSM is planning to enter into MYSA league play. Here I do with assumptions again, but my opinion is that they would not participate in anything other than MRL and State Cup. But, that is JUST MY OPINION.
SSMSouthCampus
Its not my worry any longer who plays who in what league etc..You guys will all learn that as you go.
Im gonna hand over my cystal ball to SSMSC.
All of this talk about what U12 team has what player, where they are seeded, that this U14 team will win state cup instead of that other team..the good ol'e days for sure!!
10s Dad
7:43,
The Dauphin team EP plays is 41 ranked team in the Nation and they played in the National league last season. That should be very good competition.
SSM- When did the 16's play Dynamo IN and what did you say that score was? Just curious
12:40 - what rankings are you using? I hope not GotSoccer as all that is based on is points accumalated in tournaments. the more tournament, the more points, the higher the ranking.
NSR (which IMO is a bit more accurate) has them at #24 in R1 with no national ranking. It is rare that a team that lost in their State Cup semi's would achieve the kind of national ranking that GotSoccer might have them at. There is also a reason they are not in the National League this year (they went 0-6 with 2 goals for and 19 against last year and were relegated).
I'm not saying they aren't a solid team, but just trying to set the record straight.
Rankings never mean much, but Gotsocccer is totally useless. If you want to look at them NSR is much better.
CASL is using the so called GotSoccer rankings.
I agree,the so called rankings..they mean nothing. For example, Eclipse 18s will be playing at CASL without 3 players that were all on the U17 World Cup team, big time players, 2 keepers and the starting left back. That will be huge for them, but all these people that play them and if they beat Eclipse are all going to be like, hey, we are good, we just beat #2 Eclipse. Just go down there and play. Why do you look up the rankings anyway?? I sure hope you do not share this info with your player prior to any of the games do you???
10s Dad
Why do people feel the constant need to make excuses for even possible losses by teams just because they are missing players, whether it be their current team or former team or no connection. Just go down there and play with the players you have. We hear how Notre Dame is banged up so Gophers have a chance, we hear how an MTA team has lost players to graduation, we hear how Eclipse is missing some players to callups etc etc etc. Who cares!! Every team misses players sometimes for injuries, callups, family conflicts whatever!! Everybody cut the excuse making, play the games and congratulate the winners.
gotsoccer has changed their system significantly in the last year...nsr is based solely on a single state representative's opinion, while gotsoccer is based on results at tournaments, showcases, etc., and extra pts are awarded for wins over state cup champs--quantity of pts given based on quality of event and teams played not merely the fact that you played in an event(i.e. USA cup winner awarded significantly less pts than Disney winner)...seems better to base rankings on results than on Gudrais's opinion...That being said i agree with 120's pt. that rankings never mean much
Maybe, but if you look at performance at major tourneys NSR is a much more accurate predictor of performance, particularly at older age levels. Gotsoccer system is better but still seriously flawed. They even give more emphasis to events that use their program for scheduling and results reporting.
1:15,
So how does a team qualify for National league? They must be pretty darn good! Even though they were relegated?
I'm just a parent and admitt I do not know much about rankings and leagues.
141 that is extraordinarily well said. Expect a backlash.
1:15:
The flaw with NSR rankings is simple. If you don't advance to the State Cup semi's, you don't get ranked in the top four in MN. Case in point. The current PSA U-17 Girls lost to WDB Inferno last year in the SC finals and are now deservedly ranked #2 behind WDB Inferno. However, in the two previous years PSA did not advance out of their own brackett, because they lost to Woodbury both years, even though they did not allow a goals in the other four games in those two previous years. This PSA team has dominated every other team in their age group in MN the past three years, yet never achieved a top four ranking because of their SC draw. Thus, the flaw in NSR rankings. It is quite safe to say that in this case PSA was clearly 2nd to the Inferno for the past three years, yet NSR didn't even mention PSA, but did the other three semi-finalist teams, though none of them could ever beat PSA more than in maybe one of five matches.
I don't think too many people are concerned with whether PSA is #2 or #3 or #10 in MN. It is regional and national rankings that are looked at by tourneys in seeding and NSR does a much better job there.
146-
Most of the big events, including las veags showcase and many others, are now tied to gotsoccer in that teams are now required to use a gotsoccer program to apply for entry...these events that have partnered with gotsoccer use their ranking system in addition to profile provided by teams in determining who is and is not accepted.
I don't mean to say in any way that the rankings are meaningful or accurate, but merely that gotsoccer is being used more and more by those running the truly elite events
NSR only applies a ranking for US club soccer affiliated teams/clubs. strong local/regional teams may not be considered with this knockout. Gotsoccer is seriously flawed if you are a team in a state who has few if any Gotsoccer recognized tournaments. Mn has 5 tournaments that are recognized by gotsoccer (really only 3 with a copper or higher rating). It is a chicken or the egg senerio. You need gotsoccer rated teams playing in your tournament to have a bracket that will give any level of significant points. MN has so few recognized tournaments that few if any MN teams have any points so when even the best teams around here play in a tournament they rarely ever get points. Crazy, you need to travel to get points if you are from MN.
MN tournaments recognized by Gotsoccer.
#1 NSC Cup (Bronze)
#2 USA Cup (Bronze)
#3 Dakota Rev invitational (Copper)
#4 Wings (Not rated)
#5 Apple Valley (Not Rated)
Go to any southern state and they will have nearly all of their tournaments rated, which of course means any average team will have a team ranking which will provide the tournament flight a tournament ranking which will mean points for the teams placing as at least a semi finalist.
I hope that makes sence, I mean my description not the rating formula.
Exactly that is why got soccer rankings are very inaccurate. They only reflect the events that use their program and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. USYS events, MRL and many tournaments do not use them and their results are not reflected.
2:46:
MRL does get ranking points from GotSoccer. Play-off teams that is.
MRL results are reflected in the gotsoccer rankings. Other USYS events such as state cup, regionals, nationals also award points in gotsoccer.
Another problem with gotsoccer is that they award points to flight winners in showcase tournaments with no consideration to the strength of the flight. A weak flight winner or finalist will get points while a team in a strong flight that does not do well receives no points. It is simply a flawed system.
Last year's SSM U16s had the Dynamo team come in for two games (the older Dynamo 90 or 91s? came also to play the U18s). On Saturday, the SSM U16s played the Dynamo 93s. Beat them easily on Saturday (can'tremember the score....but it wasn't a close game in play). Then, on Sunday the SSM U16s were slated to play the same team...only to have players from the older Dynamo take the field. The SSM U16s lost pretty badly in that game-- like 4-1?
As far as the rankings, again...it is like Groundhog day! But given the earlier conversation regarding why people travel to ShowCase tournaments, not sure it matters. All anyone is looking for are competitive games that the players can "showcase" thier talents (see the connection there?).
SSMSouthCampus
Got soccer also awards bonus points for defeating a team with more points than you according to you, you guessed it, got soccer. It is a self contained system that perpetuates its inaccuracies because the program does not know any better.
2:43 NRS doesnt recognize only US club soccer teams and clubs, all mysa affiliated teams are non US club soccer teams
5:07- That isn't necessarily true. You can be both. Just look at the teams who compete in US Club Nationals....
SSMSouthCampus
Rankings have absolutely no value in either system unless my kid's team is ranked, in which case I will say they have no value only to those who have kids on higher rated teams.
Nonetheless, I will brag incessantly about the ranking to those whose kids are on unranked teams, or who have no kids at all, or anyone around the office whom I will be sure to annoy to no end.
Furthermore, the more accurate rating system is the one that has my kid's team ranked highest.
As no ranking system currently has my kid's team ranked, they all bite rotten eggs.
Sorry I need some background help after reading this blog I'm confused as to set up of MN youth soccer. I always thought you had to play in the MYSA league to advance to State Cup. Winners move on to regions, then nationals. If that is correct (may not be) then how are teams getting into state cup with out playing league first?
Playing MRL is good enough to enter State Cup.
8:48 is my hero
If SSM is already playing MRL why the need/desire to be admitted to MYSA?
All of the above statements are accurate regarding the ranking services and the reactions people have to them as illustrated beautifully by 8:48.
The problem is many of the out of State Tournaments are using the Gotsoccer rankings as a significant measurement of a teams worthyness for acceptance to their tournament. Obviously winning State Cup is the best way to build a teams Resume` but that only helps one team per age group. Traveling to higher rated tournaments in other states will help, attending only MN tournaments that are recognized will help , but when we are so limited for point generating tournaments within reasonable driving distance it is a real problem for the good to very good C1 or Premier team that wants to travel to top level out of state Tournaments. Anyone have any ideas on how to overcome this regional problem we have in the upper midwest? Thanks.
I don't mean to come off as a jerk, but if an mn team is not doing well at the local tournaments like usa cup, nsc, etc, or relatively close events like just for girls in iowa or some events in illinois, they probably don't deserve to be admitted into elite tournaments like casl, disney, las vegas and the like as these tournaments accept teams that have the proven ability to compete with and beat teams that are atleast very strong regionally. Keep in mind that we are talking about minnesota soccer where there are maybe two teams at each age group that have had success against regionally or nationally reputable teams. Obviously there are a couple age groups with 3-4 strong teams, but i think you get my point.
To answer your question, we can not overcome this "regional problem",because our local tournaments do not draw strong teams. However, you can bypass this issue by doing the following:
younger teams (u12-15) that find themselves in this situation should start at lower level(relatively speaking) events. If they are consistently having success(finalists, champions), then apply to slightly better events the next time around. teams generally cannot start at the bottom and immediately jump to the top...a gradual progression is the way to go.
At 16-17s the primary point of traveling is to allow them to play in front of college coaches. At these age groups you should, first and foremost, apply to mrl as it is likely that a good premier team will be admitted. mrl is a relatively cheap way to get 6-9 games against solid competition and also provides kids an opportunity to play in front of college coaches at the d3,2 and lower d1 levels. In addition, apply to tournaments that are located near larger cities, like Chicago, Indianapolis, as well as and any here locally. Have your individual players contact coaches at colleges they are interested in attending in and around those areas where the event is being held. Unless its some big time d1 program, coaches will come to watch players that contact them if it is convenient for them to do so regardless of the quality of the event.
4:11-Well put.
4:11 First thanks for the response, second you didn't come off as a jerk, third your ideas are correct.
I still want to highlight a problem for our(minnesotas) stronger U11 to U15 teams. Gotsoccer ratings are widely being considered as a major indicator for acceptance to the larger more highly rated tournaments. It is difficult to get in too these tournaments without a Gotsoccer rating in the top 100. We all seem to agree that the ranking is seriously flawed (see above posts for all of the reasons) but it is one f the larger indicators many out of state tournaments use.
NSC fall tournament and MYSA's Harvest Fest ,our only Fall tournaments, were not even recognized by Gotsoccer. If you win NSC summer and USA Cup you will have earned very few points as they are both Bronze level Tournaments. The only other rated tournament was Dakota Rev's and it was only rated Copper (fewer points yet). Most other states have nearly all of their local club tournaments recognized Illinois has 24 rated tournaments. My point is that it is easier for those teams in those states to get points toward a rating than it is for our MN teams. I guess the answer is to encourage all community tournaments to register with Gotsoccer.
BTW I agree the ratings are basically meaningless,just wish they werent such a major factor for entry into other tournaments around the country. Real answer : win State Cup and it doesn't matter.
for the most part of you are a premiere team in MN, you can get into most any tournament that you want, basically if you are a premiere team there is nothing that you have to worry about, you will get into any tourney that you want, if you have other things that make you stick out such as success in state cup or MRL then you will be just more impressive looking and get into the higher bracket or be more of a lock
9:46 Agreed for 14 and up ages. Lower ages still an issue.
High School v Club
http://sports.espn.go.com/highschool/rise/soccer/news/story?id=3714721&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab7pos1
9:46 you are wrong. Most Premier teams in MN will not get into the top showcases, ie., Vegas, Disney.
12:00 you are wrong, most premier teams in MN will get into the top showcases, ie., Vegas, Disney. they may not be in top bracket, but they will get in
1200 is correct. Just check the tournament teams over the years. I also know of several instances of MN Premier league teams not getting into Disney and Vegas.
You think MYSA MN Premier means anything on the regional or national stage? No chance at using that on an application and getting into the top national tournaments.
My DD played for a MN Premier team for years. They were unable to be accepted into the highest level national tournaments. In retrospect should have gone to more regional tournaments at a younger age (12-14) to establish a resume.
lets all get honest here. MN might have one, maybe two teams at each group that can compete regionally. We are lucky to have one team nationally ranked (and almost always state cup champs) in an age group. These teams also rarely even play in MN Premier. to think that the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best teams in the state would ever get invited to the highest level tournaments is wishful thinking.
726-
I agree..just for your information and anyone else who may care to know...if your team was a semifinalist or better in a tournament that gotsoccer does not currently recognize I would recommend creating a team id. At that point contact the gotsoccer peopl..they are more than willing to get into contact with the people running individual tournaments and take care of all of the administrative stuff on that end.
Tournaments don't have to use gotsoccer for registration in order for the event to be recognized. there are just so many tournaments every year around the country that it is difficult for gotsoccer to 1. know that each exists and 2. obtain info to award pts corresponding to level of event.
If you have a team id and make them aware of the event, they will add it to their database. They seem to be truly intersted in creating a ranking system that is as accurate as it can be(yes, its all relative) and have been very accomodating once contacted.
If I may ask, why does it even matter?? Look how many MN girls from the past are all playing D1, for some nice top conference teams, and they didnt play Vegas, Surf, Disney. Shattuck didnt get into Vegas last yr either. Never tried to get into Disney, and we have players going to the Pac-10, ACC, Big-10, SEC.
10s Dad
2:25 ;
With all due respect, the name Shattuck does as much/more for a player than does Vegas/Disney. No, not all players at Shattuck are "elite" level, but a college coach is going to see them in a competitive environment and be able to evaluate them against other "elite" players, which is the reson for attending a top showcase event in the first place.
I agree, other than the the Stars, WDB and Wings at 18, WDB and PSA at 17, MTA and EDP at 16, no other U-16 to U-18 teams from MN can compete out of state. just check showcase or MRL results. From these seven teams will come your top recruits the next three years.
Most SSM players you speak of (yours included) were already on the national radar, through ODP, region or national teams etc, when they got to SSM. What their SSM team accomplished was not that important to their recruitment. For players not in that position it is important to get out and be seen. The coaches go to these showcases. Players need to also. Doesn't always have to be Vegas or Disney or WAGS. Players who plan to stay in Midwest can attend Blue Chip, Crossroads etc and gain exposure there. Larger clubs are also beginning to host showcases of their own.
been there
1:58 Thanks.
totally agreed on the u16 girls BUT i'm sure most of the parents of the other teams think differntly.
what other teams at U16 would you be talking about? Maybe Wayzata, but doubtful anyone else.
2:36, Been There (Nice name by the way)....You are correct, players DO need to go play in showcases, I totally agree, what Im trying to say is, you dont need all this GotSoccer, NSR and all these rankings to be able to go to Disney and Vegas. There are some great showcases like you mentioned, Blue Chip, Crossroads, the indoor tournament held in Omaha coming up for scouts like KU, Neb, ISU, Creighton, Drake, CU..Been there, done that.
And contray, we have players not playing ODP (never played) that will be attending Big-10 and ACC.
I just think any of this talk about winning to gain points for rankings is important. Its just my opinion is all.
10s Dad
other than canadian kids, how many kids that will be playing in the ACC or Big-10 have not at least played for their state ODP team?? (unfortunately, the fancy spreadsheet doesn't have that info).
1:37, U-17 boys have MTA, SSM, Blackhawks, Valley, Arsenal, St. Croix, Westside, All of who have had success at the regional and national level over the years, so there are age groups that can have that depth
define national/regional success?
6:24: I agree, define regional or national success. You're telling us all seven of these teams have had success out of state? Who you think you're kidding?
The Stars probably had some success at the regional and national level.
The 91 ODP team also has had some success regionally and nationally.
Others probably have too but not familiar with them.
MTA - lost in regional final at u-13, still very competitive, added depth to team this season
Arsenal - played in the national league last season, MRL premier, regional semifinalist at U-14 and U-15
St. Croix - state cup champ U-16, advanced to MRL premier
Valley - advanced to MRL first division playoffs, USA cup weekend Champs
Blackhawks - state cup semifinalist, also semifinalist in denmark cup 2008
Westside - state cup semifinalist, played in Vegas last year where they had two ties and a lost, not too shabby for a tourney that everyone has been talking about on here as one that few MN teams have a chance at getting in
SSM - pretty self explanitory that they are very good, they have 7 MN kids on the U-17 team
Is this enough out of state success for you or do you want more because there are more tournaments in Cali and Texas that these teams have gone to as well, If anyone wants to watch some great soccer this summer check out this age group, they are the real deal and the best and deepest this state has seen in a long long time
I see the threshold for out of state "success" is very low. 2 ties and a loss in one of the lowest flights of a tournament is defined as success?
ooohhhh, state cup semi-finalists and another team that did well at U13's....
Considering there is only one flight at U-16 boys it wasnt one of the lowest flight, and if that is the only thing that you can come up with I'm sorry that the age group is only 6 deep and not 7, but I would say they still did pretty well for themselves, and there are still 3 other MN premier teams not noted on that previous list at all, I would say it is a deep deep very talented age group
9:11: What's your kids number and who does he play for? Don't waste your time here, have him email a college coach or two if he's that good.
MTA hasnt gotten back to regions because the age group is so deep, not because they arent talented, Arsenal, St. Croix, MTA, Valley, Westside, Wings (now fused into MTA) and blackhawks all played MRL as well
Westside opponents at vegas
Neusport FC Green
Real Colorado National
San Juan Lightning Blue
None of them ranked in the top 40 in region 4
4:12..a player from MI never played ODP and a player from IA played some ODP. If you want to call it that. ACC Va Tech and Big10 Iowa. Both of these schools came up to Shattuck and watched them play prior tournaments.
This conversation is basically completely useless. The true secret is to make a list, have the player contact the coaching staff and the rest can be worked out.
The coaches at top programs are already working the 2011s....so don't sit back and wait for your club to do the work for you. This isn't about THEM....it is about YOUR child and thier future.
If you are waiting to attend one of these "top tournaments" where a coach will magically pluck your child from thier team by chance-- good luck. It likely won't happen.
Be proactive, get your kid's name out from the pile of 500 on the coach's desk. BUT-- these coaches don't want to talk to YOU (the parent). They want to talk to the kids, it is more than just a player who shows well.
SSMSouthCampus
Amos Magee joins the Timbers as assistant coach and Director of Soccer Development. Why didn't MTA retain him? Seems like a great opportunity to take advantage of him with the academy. Is MTA not as strong as they try to make it appear?
- stadium plans shelved, it's been posted elsewhere they aren't even building the beer garden they promised fans due to lack of funding for the contractors.
- Gramenz hired as head coach. Nothing against him, but what happend to all the big names they were going to bring in?
- Amos gone to the Timbers as Dir of Soccer Development
- Tod H leaves MTA Urban Director gig for another job
- According to the players, they have not received their end of the year payments as of yet.
Anyone know what is going on?
amos and todd are as shady as they come. if you have ever had either of them as coach you would know this. ask anyone who has played for them at the youth or thunder level(except for paye, the favorite)what kind of people they are. the way they do things results in their players hating the game. look at the difference gramen made in a matter of days. its sad that they ever put the thunder or any youth team in their hands.
Sooner or later you knuckle heads will get it. Number of kids playing has gone up but not enough quality coaches. In Minn anybody can be a coach. For example in Ill to be an elite coach you go through an apprentice period for a few years.You learn from other elite coaches. Not the case here so don't expect the quality of players to increase significantly.
IL has more than its fair share of wanna-be coaches as well. And this is the first Iv heard of apprentice period in IL..?? Explain more please.
10s Dad
anon 1:59,
The quality of players here in Minnesota has been increasing rapidly and will continue to do so.
Just look back 8-10 years and see how our teams fared at Region 2 championships. Many times just scoring a few goals was considered a success much less winning a match!
Now look over the past 4-5 years and see how we've done.
Another measuring stick is to look at the number of Minnesota players making the Region 2 teams. 8-10 years ago you could count them on 1 hand.
Now count them again the past 3-4 years.
We're light years ahead of where we were and will continue to improve.
The main reason in my opinion is the number of coaches today who actually played the game at a competitive level.
10 years ago we still had the hockey, football, baseball dad who knew sports and tried their best to coach soccer.
Today we have hundreds of young coaches in their 20s and 30s who played in HS and college teaching these kids from day 1.
The great thing is these young men and women know the game and will only improve as they get more years under their belt as coaches.
Minnesota will continue to improve every year. Maybe not as dramatically as we have the last 10 but progress will continue as more young kids are exposed to better coaching at younger ages.
Agree with 5:10
SS
Big names and licenses don't make for good coaches. Ditto for "having played the game". I've been around a long time. I've seen many great players of many sports. Most of them are not good coaches. Also, in soccer we put stock in our licensing system like it's going to make a good coach. I've seen many,many licensed coaches that were very poor. Coaching is 90% desire and effort. This usually comes with commitment to an end (which a parent usually has). One of the greatest coaches in the sport of volleyball in MN was the retired Apple Valley coach (Walt Weaver I believe) who never played volleyball. There are examples in other sports as well. Assuming that some young ex-college soccer player will be good coach is ignorant thinking.
10:08 - many solid points and hard to disagree with. Do you believe that the quality and quantity of players in this state has improved? And if so - why? If not - why not?
I believe it is a couple of things.
There are more knowledgeable people at he top of clubs. The DOCs are soccer people who may or may not be good coaches themselves. They do in many cases know how to direct the clubs.
I also think we have lots of kids playing soccer. Numbers is a huge factor in any sport. Kids are also specializing and for a heavily skills biased/based sport like soccer this is crucial.
Of course soccer is getting better in this state. For years the only teams that did well at high level out of state tournaments were the Tsunami Sota and St. Croix girls teams at older ages. The only younger teams that accomplished anything were Bangu Stars girls and PSA boys. Now we have many younger and older teams from multiple clubs that have at least some regional success.
Heard that SSM is contemplating discontinuing soccer and just sticking with hockey in the future. Is this true?
Don't know about SSM plans, but my friend the Fedex driver delivered Rosetta Stone german programs to MTA headquarters last week. Mystery solved!
8:18--
I certainly haven't heard this. I don't see it as a realistic rumor either. The soccer program has brought many students to Campus, and is seeing success. Can't imagine going from National Runner-up one year to talking about dis-banding the next.
You can't wish SSM away....
SSMSouthCampus
Dont go to the level of this yahoo SSMSC.
will someone from mta please explain what's going on with some of the white teams. are they still recruiting from other teams or are they taking those who have tried out?
these so-called try-outs are continuing to smell like a slush-fund-raiser!
please dispel.
Ah, 1:28, too many pints for you my friend. You mistyped the url - should have been www.mnthunder.com, not www.mnfutbol.blogspot.com for your answers.
lol awesome
Westside 1 KCFC Strikers 1 #12 r.2 #39 Nation Westside 2 Des Moines Menace 1
Westside 2 Futura Juventus 0
where was this at? any details?
ssmsc,
I thought you said the 18 girls were playing in the mrl premier division in the spring...What happened?
They probably looked at who the competiton was and punked out.
Who/what is Westside?
Can anyone post here the rest of the blogs, brits, and board rooms rant from r2r?
http://www.roadtoregionals.com/97-journal/
9:12 - just enroll as a member. It's free and quick.
NO punking about it, Shattuck just got screwed..Won the 1st Div, and MRL did not promote any teams. Shattuck beat 3 other teams last yr in MRL that will be playing Premier as well. Great Question isnt it. But what can you do? Cry about it, wont do any good will it?
10s Dad
Anonymous said...
They probably looked at who the competiton was and punked out.
24/11/08 11:17 PM
--------------------
Competition huh?? Beat Ft Wayne last yr in MRL 6-0, Beat Blast last yr in MRL a bunch to zero, yea, real highly competitive teams they let in.
10s Dad
10's dad don't take the bait, just idiots trying to get people fired up. If you look at the MRL guidelines on how teams get in you understand the reasoning. The teams are judged for Premier admittance on what they did the previous Spring at that age group. SSM played U18 last year so probably was not considered as they were not a "returning" team from last years U17 and did not take part in the playoffs. Also the fall league performance this year does not enter into the Spring league formation. SSM is obviously a Premier league level team and if they had played U17 last year would undoubtedly be in. Just the way MRL works.
Thanks 1108, not getting fired up, just the way it is, I know that there are clubs in the Region that do not want us playing, and its more than MN. Leave it at that. Its youth, and its a shame that youth teams and coaches think its all about the wins. Sure, I would love to watch SSM play Bangu/MTA or even Lightning, but you know what, you cant play them if they dont want to play you. Same can be said for Eclipse, they dont want to play Shattuck either. Who freaking cares if Eclipse or MTA or anyone for that matter wins, big deal. I hope MTA can win MRL PRemier and stamp their ticket to Regionals, then maybe there will be 2 MN teams in for U18. Im sure Shattuck will use this lesson as a no respect sort of thing during State Cup.
10s Dad
10's dad I don't think it has anything to do with respect. As you probably know MRL is big on the letter of the law and according to their promotion guidelines SSM does not qualify for MRL U18 Premier this spring. Please don't pull out the no respect line, otherwise you may be lumped in with a certain local pro team that has been reciting that mantra for decades. :)
1108
10's dad
I would not be looking for MTA to be the second MN team at regions. That team has been regressing anyway and with the players they lost to graduation will likely lose to WDB at State Cup and/or MRL anyway.
Agreed, WDB Eclipse will beat MTA at 18's in State Cup this year.
Just curious, what do you base your assessment on concerning MTA and WDB?
MTA Stars peaked at 16 and cannot replace KB and KL. WDB is hungry.
So will be Shattuck!
Don't sleep on Wings. Didn't they win Premier league last summer and beat WDB in the process?
I thought the wings were no longer?...Is this not correct?
10s dad-
ssm 18s were in the u-18 mrl 1st division last spring...the fort wayne and blast teams that they beat were u-18s last year as well, while the fort wayne and blast teams in the 2009 18 spring prmeier division played mrl at the u17 age group last year.
In other words, ssm did not play either team you claim to have played. those are the facts...you are comparing apples to oranges
Nobody cares about U18 soccer anyway, those teams are playing out the string before going to college. 16 and 17 are the important age groups.
Not sure about nobody caring about the U-18's...I could make an argument that this should be the pinacle of ones youth career..If these teams are just playing out the string before college, then they are indeed missing the most important year of youth soccer...unfortunatly this attitude is more than prevelant in our soccer society..anyway..SSM is a premiere team...I don't think 10's dad was whining..I myself find this petty posturing amoung clubs and organizations very counter productive...I mean can anyone honestly give me a reason why ssm, mta, wsc or anyone else would not compete in the 1st qtr of 09?...Please spare me the state cup crap of we never play each other...that's garbage and, if I recall on the boy's side juventus played ssm last year and it looks like mta is playing the 18's again this year...
OMG not this again already. It is very touching that so many concern themselves with who plays who and when. Please though, if it is important to you and somehow any of your business please contact the coaches of the teams involved and ask them for the basis of their decisions. You can also explain to them why you care. Nobody else does.
2:42 do you mean like how MTA directors and coaches stay out of other clubs and teams business? Such as ripping on teams that tried MRL in the fall and struggled? Telling kids and parents that their coaches and DOC's were no good? How about calling it what it is, SSM is a major threat to MTA and they are afraid, the coaches not the players.
who said anything about caring?
It appears 255 has an axe to grind. Motivation for questioning scheduling decisions of individual teams has been determined!
2:42 you crack me up!..really!..why would you not do a round robin once a month in the winter if you have 4 decent teams?...please explain yourself...
Not a MRL expert but how come MTA 15 Blue girls qualified for the premier spot?
As I recall to lazy to look it up they did not qualify through last spring playoffs
SS
LOL again 317 why do you care? I am not 242 or affiliated with any of the clubs involved but cannot figure out why this is such a topic of interest? If a team does not play or scrimmage another team so what? I don't get it.
3:25...ummm..let me think..I always thought the point of the exercise was to play games...did I miss something?...
it's deja vu all over again......
329 are you saying teams don't play games? You seem more interested in how many games they play and against who. Your interest stems from what again? If a team is hurting itself by not playing games isn't that their problem? If they are not hurting themselves then why would they play these games? Are they under some obligation to aid others? Again, why such interest?
3:50 - it's either one or two things with 3:29.
A) SSM parent who is frustrated as no scrimmages can be arranged with MTA
B) A convenient way to cast stones at MTA, etc...
I agree, why such interest?
Gosh, all of this going down cuz Shattuck didnt get into MRL Prem?
10s Dad
MTA u18s play friendlies all the time against former D1 players like Smith and Hahn. Occasionally scrimmage the Lightning. That's what they prefer to do. More power to em.
MRL probably doesn't allow teams that recruit nationally to play MRL.
If SSM is so good why aren't they playing against other academies that recruit nationally rather than whine in here why they can't get game with Minnesota kids.There must be academies in FL or Tx that would like to play them.SSM should go out and challenge them.
10's dad you should know by now that there isn't really anything anyone can say about anything that cannot somehow be the basis for an anti MTA diatribe. SSM is now a favorite proxy as some think it lends legitimacy to the attacks. Watch for posts slamming SSM purportedly by an MTA person in order to give these people an excuse for a rant. Don't bite although I know it can be difficult.
There you go again 4:48...Another anon giving advise.
Westsider
accurate with respect to this blog though as posts like 505 indicate.
To all,
I think it is great that we are having this argument about what teams made it to the MRL Premier Division and why or why not.
What SHOULD be the topic here is not who is "whining" about what... the focus should be on the fact that MN is not represent in 2009 Spring Season MRL from U16 to U18. Where is the outrage at why NONE of the clubs in MN can't seem to muster the quality it takes to get into the Premier Division of MRL.
Wake up, quit arguing about who is better-- it doesn't matter when 98% of ALL MN teams SUCK.
?? MN has 3 teams in the U18 Premier division and 2 at U16.
3:21, 15 Blue got in because of their record in MRL last year, because their Regional semi finalist status, and mainly because many of the Premier teams drop out to play HS. The 15s should in the top group of what is left for sure. I find it more surprising that the Whites are not there based on their performance last year. They are the only two MN teams with any proven regional track record at this age group, most should agree with that.
What have the whites accomplished?? What regional track record.
SSM WILL Never Play In the girls MWRL Premier league against good competition due to fact that U18 never the same members qualifying from younger U-17 age group and their younger U-16 team will unlikely have enough talent to win 1st division to qualify following year as 17 . Only chance for SSM to have done this was year ago but due to off the field behavior blew their chance.
SSM....maybe your expectations exceed your ability.
The other factor in SSM girls consideration is the very little game pressure with no conference race, elimination tournaments, or few games that matter for something. Have seen their teams wilt in state cup, MWRL 1st div., shoots outs, and against teams with greater depth. Their trips to California and Tennessee have been disasters. The ssm regional or national ODP players with the much higher scholarships are subsidized by the parents of less talented players who pay considerably more to attend there. Ironically the off the field wayward incidents are usually players who are given the most generous amounts of scholarships and usually held less accountable for their actions.
I've posted in debate with south campus before on here. However, I would prefer to see USYS make an exception for programs like SSM and allow them to compete in MRL or like leagues. This to me is far more of an equitable option that allowing a program like that to compete in one single state.
I just heard that MYSA denied 2 MTA teams of MRL play, only then to have MTA complain about SSM, forcing MYSA to eat shoe and deny SSM play as well. I know, I know, this is rumor but an interesting new one. Comments?
1210,
First, ssm does compete in the mrl.
Second, mysa has nothing to do with the premier division decision process, but merely have the ability to recommend teams for mrl league play.
Third, mysa did recommend these teams but the mrl rejected them.
As to ssm specifically, there was one spot open in the u18 premier division and the mrl commissioner went with a state cup champion over all other applicants(ssm was a statecup semifinalist)...the other 9 teams in the premier division either retained their spot from last year or earned it via promotion last spring.
9:57-
I would hardly call a 1-0 loss in State Cup, and a thorough whooping of all MN competition (on the boys side) "wilting" in State Cup. What exactly is a "shoots outs" (PKs at the end of a game or something else)? And which of the two trips to Tennessee for the Brentwood Tournament are you referring to as disasters? You are absolutely correct about the last two....they were rained out so it was a disaster that they traveled, but didn't get to play. Not sure what other Tennessee trip you are referring to? Maybe you don't either?
I also don't think that you have facts straight about the Regional and National Level players being subsidized by the "less talented players". Mine would be classified as the "less talented player" category by your terms, and I know that I am not subsidizing anyone. Again, I will say this- ultimately what you pay is based upon financial need (minus an amount given for athletic scholarship). Unless you are someone "inside" SSM, you would have no idea whatsoever what you speak of. None of us parents even know what the other parents pay....how would you?
You have absolutely no credibility with anyone here who knows how things really work at SSM. I guess it is very worthwhile for you to continue to be an Anon....as that way we will never know who to attribute your ignorance to.
12:10-
Not sure what exactly happened, but your rumor has a lot of substance. I can't comment, not because I don't want to....but because I don't understand the politics behind the issue. I would like to go on record to say that of all the stupid, short sighted decisions I have heard about which have been made by MYSA-- they never cease to amaze me. So, to those who like to complain about "Nationally recruited SSM teams" spending thier time beating up on MN teams- you are really going to hate SSM this Spring. You have won a small battle, but ultimately lost the fight. Be careful what you wish for, folks....it just may come true. This is the last you'll hear from me on this subject (unless I hear WHO caused the issue, and exactly what the issue is). If anyone has information from the MYSA meetings, please inform the group how this all went down. Seems like "someone" in some MN club is nervous and has pulled some political strings?
SSMSouthCampus
SSMSouth,
Here's what I've heard but it's 2nd hand info so it may not be 100% accurate.
A couple of traditional MYSA clubs' teams were denied access to MRL by the MYSA gatekeeper because the teams were newly formed and didn't participate in the MYSA leagues last season.
When they were advised of this they in turn asked why would the SSM teams be admitted to MRL since those teams were not in MYSA leagues last season. Asking in effect why are the SSM teams being given special treatment?
Rather than admitting a bias or error the gatekeeper decided that none of these new teams, including SSM teams, would be allowed into MRL.
Is this the right thing to do? Probably not, but that's our MYSA for ya!
Not sure I understand this. SSM is already in the MRL on girls side, is this discussion about boys? MYSA cannot tell MRL who to make Premier. Also are we talking about MYSA leagues (which they do control)? the 1234 post is the most accurate
First, ssm does compete in the mrl.
Second, mysa has nothing to do with the premier division decision process, but merely have the ability to recommend teams for mrl league play.
Third, mysa did recommend these teams but the mrl rejected them.
As to ssm specifically, there was one spot open in the u18 premier division and the mrl commissioner went with a state cup champion over all other applicants(ssm was a statecup semifinalist)...the other 9 teams in the premier division either retained their spot from last year or earned it via promotion last spring."
1) Unsubstantiated anonymous rumours
2) An evil protagonist hated by many
3) An injured party searching for answers
4) Anoynimity for the accusers
This is going to be great!!
yes yes yes...ssm will most likely never compete in girls premiere with there current format of two teams....this still does not answer the question of mta and the likes not doing friendlies..does it.
8:15 you must be a hater!
LOL not again!! Your concern is based on .......?
8:19...a hater of what?????
They just aren't going to give up on that are they? Too funny. Perhaps there should be a State scheduling board which will give teams their off season schedules of who they have to play against and when. 815 and 819 can head it up. They know what is better for a teams development than the team does.
Give up on what?...your comments make no sense...can you elaborate please?...no one is asking for "mandates"...it's a simple question that's all...
MTA now MCA Minnesota Chicken Academy
I think in the spirit of the holiday it should remain MTA..minnesota turkey academy.
LOL now that the motivations have been exposed and the emptiness of arguments illuminated let the name calling begin. I was wondering what the Coleman and Franken ad writers were going to do after the election.
Yes, all you haters need to remember this chant ... MTA is the best, the leader says so, follow the leader..
851 that is excellent!!
Yes, the name calling has begun and the attempt at dialog diminished.
I know SSM already competes in MRL. Maybe I should have been more clear. I would like to see USYSA mandate that programs like SSM, which are extremely beneficial to the growth of soccer in this country, play in regional/national leagues to pursue a national title run rather than compete in single state competitions. That is a simple statement of opinion.
The MYSA gatekeeper as one poster called her is an incompetent, vindictive leader who does not understand where this game is headed in the US. Administrators like her should be left out of key soccer decisions regardless of their title or position. Where was our state director of coaching on this?
I think it's great to see all the MN teams in the MRL Premier leagues. We benefit from most other states playing high school soccer in the spring and would not have the numbers in that league if all region 2 states fielded their top teams, but nevertheless good luck to all who play next spring... regardless of their club affiliation.
9:13 Thanks for ending the name calling what a goober double standard
to 7:11
Thank you
I think it is great that they get a chance to play in the premier league and that they belong there, was just curious how they got in.
As far as the white team pretty sure they will do well this season and hopefully they get in next year. The good news now those two teams want have to play eachother like 5 times this season
SS
9:16, calling you an idiot hater is name calling. Speaking my mind about a person's qualities seen through my own filters is an observation based on experience. Why are you so put out? Why can't you get past a club that no longer exists? Why do you have to chime in at all with nothing productive to contribute?
an incompetent, vindictive leader who does not understand where this game is headed in the US. Administrators like her should be left out of key soccer decisions regardless of their title or position.
That qualifies as hateful name calling
To paraphrase one of our great philosophers Goober is as Goober does.
Long live Shekki!
The MTA U17 and U18 boys are playing SSM teams this winter. Don't know what all of you are whining about.
The Girls...11:15
Sounds like it's up to each coach at MTA to decide who they want to play.
That's the way it should be in my opinion. Who knows what their team needs more than the coach?
Apparently anonymous blogger(s)
It just occurred to me that MTA is also the acronym for the Metro Transit Authority. That should make for some good jokes as players are enticed to "get on the bus." Did the Thunder marketing team (and his friends) anticipate this? Can I get a free bus pass for my kid (!) if he learns to speak gu ("cc," "hater," "MYSA is evil," and such phrases)? Happy Thanksgiving hater haters!
If u can't get a free pass, maybe the other passengers will pay his way!
Often done, not need based free passes, based on how badly the passenger is wanted to be on the goo bus.
Hater 4ever
Have a nice holiday haters. Pathetic though humorous. You continue to represent the ignorance and envy that has come to be associated with anti-MTA people. What's that you say? There is also a negative stigma against people supporting MTA? Hmmmm. Guess we'll take that negativity while walking in the company of the Chicago Fire, NY Red Bulls, FC Dallas, etc, etc, (those are MLS teams in case you didn't know that) as well as FC Barca, Man U, AC Milan, Monaco FC, US Soccer, FIFA, etc, etc.
To each their own though minds like yours have no place within programs like ours, SSM's, and other similar ones who continue to pave the way for soccer in this country while haters like you watch and steam. Try joining MYSA where your feelings are echoed. Condescending? Darn tooting I am and not afraid to say it like it is.
Happy MTA Guy
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