With all the nonsense in the previous posting, its time to let the kids play. Looks like MN weather will keep the games from starting for a few more days. Hopefully the fields will hold up. Good luck to everyone in the tournament!
Schedule and results here: http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/events/statecup.cfm#sched
1,034 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 801 – 1000 of 1034 Newer› Newest»757, Why is U14 and above matter more than say the U13 age group. Just because they don't do Nationals doesn't mean it is less important. Your comments also sound like a rip against the younger Bangu Team.
where did everyone go?
1242
#1 because there is no nationals and 14 is typically the age where teams in the region begin cosolidating talent at a faster rate.
#2 Not trying to rip, they are U12's after all and did well. I simply do not think we are sending our best team at that age group. Nothing against your DD's team. I have no doubt they are the top U12 team in the state.
757 and 339, I think you are missing the point. These are just kids and Rec/Traveling/State/Regional/ and National/and even Tournaments are just competitions and who are you to say which ones or age groups matter more. You are showing your frustrations due to your teams losing. They are all equally important to the kids involved. The difference is in the parents.
Agree with 757/339. 447 I don't see who you are to say either. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and they are bound to differ. No need to get defensive.
next year maybe this blog can have a separate thread for the U13-U14 parents. Maybe a chat room so they can converse back and forth.
Did anyone see the U14 final? Was it as close as the final result would indicate?
yes. it was hard to identify who was the regional champ and who was the state cup runnerup. as you probably saw at almost every age group (except for U16) there are many teams with a lot of talent and not much of gap between the top teams.
I didn't see that at all. The only final I saw that was a relatively even game was at U15. At U16-18 I don't believe the runnerups had more than 1 shot in the whole game. U14 was surprisingly even, perhaps a case of a team looking ahead. U13 was also controlled by one team that ended up losing. What I do see are some of our top teams that do not finish their chances very well.
9:41 - so it sounds like U14 & U15 were both tight (the looking ahead excuse might make them feel better but the white team battled them hard) and I know the U18 was a battle. Agree with U16 & U17. To touch on what 9:27 had to say, what I think you are seeing is the depth of talent is starting to reduce the impact of the top scoring lines on the top teams. At the earlier ages there might have been a few weak links in the backfield and midfield with many teams, but the talent levels have improved enough and there is now enough depth to field a very competitive top 11.
Maybe next year, there will not be a blog...lol
10:12 Seriously then, what does that say to the constant posters advocating for consolidationat even younger ages? Seems a worhtwhile to discuss the merits of a broad base of good teams/training until later ages?
10:23 - IMO there is a difference between a broad base of good teams and developing the top 15-20 players at each age group into an elite pool (the biggest obstacle is defining what is elite and who are the elite players - that's where the infighting starts). Also, not sure if the increased depth has more to do with athleticism combined with good soccer skills which can negate many solid scoring opportunitites. Personally, I've more in favor of age group consolidation into a pool of 30-34 (two top teams) who train and develop against each other. Playing against the best both in-state, regionally, and nationally is a proven way to improve due to the constant challenges. I understand the "let's have a bunch of good teams" concept, just prefer a differnt approach. In that approach you end up with a handful of good in-state teams, in the other approach you end up with two better in-state teams and hopefully a solid regional/national team. I believe what side of the debate you are on usually mirrors your child's current playing situation.
U17 Stars and U16 Inferno out this weekend at the PDA Showcase in NJ. BNG U14 out in Portland, OR for a Nike event. Good luck to these and any other team competing over the holiday weekend.
Let's face it folks.
A great finisher/scorer is the rarest commodity in soccer.
That one player can transform a very good team into a great team.
Look back at Storlien's original girls Tsunami Sota team from a few years ago.
They were obviously a very good team with outstanding depth but what made them a national finalist 2 consecutive years was the outstanding goal scoring talents of Carolyn Smith.
IMO that type of talent is instinctive and can't be taught. It can be refined but the natural ability and instincts must be there to begin with.
I'm waiting for MA's take on the 14 final which I'm sure he'll post on his own site. I saw a White team with a lot of heart and a Blue team that would need to play 10x better to compete at Regionals.
For the 12s, pure shame the 12s are repping our state. Yes, yes, I know the team that wins State Cup earned the right, but c'mon.
This touches on a debate that has intensified over the last few years not only in soccer, but also in hockey - why no great US scorers? Is it because our players get so "programmed" from the youth level on up? Is it because there is little "sandlot" or street soccer played out in the burbs? Look at the international level and the top scorers are usually from outside the established european powers (with the exclusion of Spain/Portugal). We seem to develop physically talented, solidly skilled, but lacking in creativity soccer players in this country. Many of the games that I saw had great possession soccer, but rarely did anyone just go 1v1 and try to beat someone or earn space. Is it because they are taught not to or because they aren't good enough to succeed? Inquiring minds want to know.
11:22 - some of the U14's past success was that they were ahead of the competition in terms of development and team tactical. The gap is closing.
State Cup recap by the numbers (excluding the U19 age group)
BANGU - 7 champs (Girls 5/Boys 2)
4 runner ups (2/2)
SCV - 1 champ (boys U16)
1 runner up (boys U14)
MUS - 1 champ (boys U14)
Edina - 1 champ (boys U15)
WDB - 1 champ (girls U16)
SSM - 1 champ (boys U18)
EP - 1 runner up (girls U15)
PSA - 1 runner up (girls U16)
NMT - 1 runner up (girls U18)
WBL - 1 runner up (girls U17)
BHK - 1 runner up (boys U13)
CDA - 1 runner up (boys U17)
VAL - 1 runner up (boys U18)
U19 favorites would most likely be SCV on the girls side and Bangu on the boys side.
The interesting thing about that list is that there is no mention of Wings. 2 years ago that was the #2 club in the state overall ang arguably the top boys club.
When Bellis left the Wings because of too much interference from the Wings board their program took a big hit.
It took them a while to get the right person in place but then that didn't work out for various reasons.
The Wings still have one of the best coaching staffs in the state and will be a factor again in the future.
There are a couple of ladies who are outstanding passers with excellent field vision and anticipation. But to be successful setting up scoring plays you need players who can anticipate their moves.Unfortunately here in MN we don't seem to build around players like that. We tend to dribble up and down the sidelines or pooch and chase.For MN to excell at the national level you must build around the skilled players and build a real TEAM not a bunch of 1x1 race horses.I have not seen any attempt to do this in any club over the last five years. MN clubs continue to play a less cerebral style of soccer at all levels including the U of M. Until the coaches change their philosophy don't expect any significant improvement at the national level.
1:12, I assume you include the Bangu club in your analysis above. So that begs the real question, from where does your hate come?
IMHO Wings #2 state ranking a few years back had little to do with Mr. Bellis. For a couple of years, the club was lucky enough to have a two / three boy’s teams who rose to the top at State Cup. I don't believe many of these guys were "developed" by Wings or SB. On a side note, I think it’s going to be difficult for any one club to target the # 1 boys spot in MN. Boys (and parents of) seem to have weaker “loyalties” to the larger organization. I’ve noticed boys to be less interested in the title of their club / team. They seem willing to move on (and even “down”) if they aren’t satisfied with the results of the group effort /dynamic. Likewise, they might stay with a “lesser” team if they are happy with the results. Just my observations ...
1:26 - how do you make the leap from 1:12's fairly benign comments (which IMO were not that offensive - just another opinion) to "from where does your hate come"?
I agree with 1:31 take on the boys teams. Girls teams tend to be more "team" focused (as is the style of play, much more pass oriented) while the boys tend to play a more individual 1v1 style. There seems to be more annual player movement on the boys side as the players (and parents) look for the team that moves their little Landon out of any shadows so they can "do their thing".
Any time there is any talk about the Goo crew that is not fawning, the "you are a hater, your kid was cut " attacks come. The Goobers want to portray that their system of coaching and recruiting will bring Mn. to national power. The above comment directly challenges that so therefore the poster will be dubbed a hater, see how it works?
1:57 - speaking of reactions.....you came out right on cue!
My opinion of why we don't have the creative types asked about are:
1)We (parents) push our kids at too young an age to be in a competitive situation. Because of this, kids often get "shoehorned" into being defenders, or mids, or forwards because the coaches want to win at all costs. I know of many playerswho may have been great attackers had someone not labled them as a GK or defender when they were 10 years old.
2) Everything is too organized. Let them play when they are young, let them have fun. To be discussing who is going to win State Cup at U13 seems utterly crazy to me.....I know it matters to those who are playing/parents of those playing, but come on. At the end of the day, does it really matter?
3) SSM and Bangu are destroying everything good about soccer in the world and I am pretty sure this is the root cause of all tht is wrong with US soccer. (I hope you detect the sarcasm, because I am laying it on pretty thick)
SSMSouthCampus
I don't want to offend anyone, but doesn't the U13 team's failure to beat their 12's cast doubt on the whole philosophy of what the gubies are selling? Or did they just do a better job with the 12's (don't think the 13's will like that)? I don't know, but it's hard to see where the 13's fit in the whole RTR Nirvana complex. Are they going to be like the 16's that weren't good enough for their guby coaches so they moved on? It's hard to tell what goes on up there on gumdrop mountain unless it's the 18's, 14's or 12's.
I agree with SSMSC...Talking about U12s, 13s and 14 Why?? Is it about win win win my team is better than yours? That is part of the problem. what is the over all big picture? Be the best you can be at U12? I could care less if my dd's team ever wins again, as long as SHE is getting great coaching for the NEXT level. And the NEXT level isnt U13.
My two cents on the girls side…To Anon 2:05. I would add 4) Girls are identified too early and often based on super size, super speed, or super strength. They continue along beating opponents as a result. Coaches and parents are happy to "win". Why learn to be creative when you can either mow down, out sprint, or out muscle opponents? 5) Girls don’t play enough pick up soccer with boys. If they did, they would be forced outside of their gender box. 6) Girls aren’t students of the game. If they watched enough international (men’s) soccer they would have a variety of models to imitate. Of course, these are generalities based on my observations….
re:
1) Agree to a point, although I don't see all that much of this.
2) Agree, parents and coaches of youngers are too consumed with winning.
3) Agree. These two entities are evil incarnate. (jk)
4) Disagree, to reach the highest levels you need to be skilled and athletic. No problem with identifying athletes early and trying to each them skills. The problem is when you lock into these kids and don't keep eyes open for the late bloomers.
5) Do not think that would accomplish much.
6) Agree completely and feel this is the single biggest flaw in girls development.
So, are you all for or against 9-11 year olds being concentrated on a couple teams?
Too much of the decision making regarding children is predicated on, in no particular order: parental ego, coach/director ego, need for income at a certain level for directors. This is why it is so difficult to move the system.
2:41 & 2:50
There is a semi-pro womens team in the city, the Lightning. Take your daughters to watch a few games, that will take care of #6
On another note, on BigSoccer someone posted some history, in the 2005 top 30 soccerbuzz recruits, the players are now entering their Sr yr of college, and the names of the majority top 30 are all super great players STILL.
349 you have got to be kidding. Watching the Lightning take care of #6?
353 I suspect 349 had tongue firmly planted in cheek. Relax.
Watching the Lightning may not take care of #6....but it definately is a start. Some supprt for the higher level teams in the area allows these teams to keep thier doors open. Don't show up to games, and the opportunity for your daughters to play go away.
Being from Iowa, I see this all the time with the DSM Menace PDL team. It seems as though many of the players for many of the DSM area clubs WON'T attend these games because the Menace have a youth side as well. Somehow it seems to be viewed as supporting the enemy. Truth is, it really hurts everyone in the State....no attendance = no revenue. No revenue = no team. No team = no chance to see higher level play and find people to emulate and nothing to aspire to? Now, the Menace are in no danger of no revenue and folding....but with the attendance of those "haters" maybe they could be an A-League team right now with the Thunder (Lord knows we can compete with them-- no Thunder wins in a couple years against the lowly DSM PDL side).
SSMSouthCampus
4:32, I don't think that 3:49 was kidding. I suspect that the statement was completely serious. Again, I don't think anyone believes that it can completely fix #6....but it certainly would help. Please don't say that anyone thinks that the Lightning are not at a higher level than any of the Club teams in MN?
SSMSouthCampus
Now we have yet another paradox, The Bangu types go out of their wat to wave the flag about their player (possessions?) being on the Lightning. The Lightning are only a high level team at tryout time?
Wow how can anyone think this is a jab at the Lightning? I completely support them, but the level of play is not something that younger players will learn much from. Certainly not comparable to the international men's soccer that socmum referenced in her original post. If they are watching the Lightning for developments sake they are wasting their time. Certainly the Lightning are the highest level of women's soccer in MN and worthy of some fan support for the other reasons SSMSC stated.
I am a Bangu parent.
Bellis did build the competative side of the Wings club. He (at times) coached and recruited the boys teams that were successful. And coached and recruited the girls teams that were successful. He was also single handidly responsible for building their coaching staff for competative teams. I would list him as one of the top DOC/Coaches MN has ever had.
There decline is a shame. I think the Wings board are soley responsible for their decline.
Bangu 14 Blue wins 3-0 over ISC Strikers (unranked) at Nike Friendlies. Their group is soft with no nationally ranked teams so should make the quarters at least.
Is this tournament for Nike clubs only?
No it isnt, Eclipse is there. However MOST of the teams are from NIKE clubs
U14 Blue, is 2-0-1 in group play. They play Sereno in the round of 16 tomorrow.
Bellis was able to talk parents of successful "teams" into moving to wings because of his involvement with ODP. He used his staff to join ODP so they recruit the players. this approach worked until all the recuited teams graduated and now he was forced to show his development porgram. When he had nothing to show, he bolted. Unfortunately noone told this to Manny. Now Manny too saw the MN soccer scene and bolted. How can be be blamed on the Board? These highly compensated individuala make decision and no board can stop them.
OMG, don't make me puke. Steve and Manny make decisions? Harrison, Bellamy, Tudor, England make decisions?!?!? You must be blind. If these guys made decisions, MN soccer would be in a far better place. Decisions are made by parent boards and people who sometimes have little real world soccer experience. Ask Wings, I think they have at least 16 people who get a vote. 16!
The only club that allows decisions by soccer professionals is Bangu, now the Thunder. That is why they have had and will continue to have success on the field. Others are doing well in and of their own rights, but until selfish parents looking out for the best interest of their own kid are taken out of the equation, CCs will never be able to match what a Bangu club can offer for the higher level players because - drum roll please - the majority of board making decision makers do not have higher level children.
You might be thinking selfish/arrogant directors with Bangu are just as bad, but I'd rather put my child in an environment under these selfish coach decision makers over one with selfish parent decision makers. At least my child's need have a chance of being taken care of in the former. Lessor of two evils I guess, but I've had no complaints.
what do you mean by the Lightning only being a high level team at tryout time? The W League is proabably the 1st or 2nd (behnid Sweden's league) as the best womens soccer league in the world. The Lightning have been two years in the playoffs. We should go support them because its almost all MN players. We should go support them becasue young girls can learn and more important see these great role models. Playing the game they love and working professional with real world jobs, going to graduate or professional school, and attending some of the countries best Universties. Do they learn more by watching the Thunder, EPL, Champions League?? Maybe, or maybe its just different. Think about it.
it goes goes to show that money will buy anyone's soul. you have these guys then with big titles and can make decisions but are there year in year out? what puppets can they be if they were any good? they are noit going to get jobs in top enligsh league so we settle for them and they are content makling lots of money and not doing anything for our children.
show me the money and I will keep my mouth shut and laugh to the bank. what a broekn system - it is.
6:57,
Until you are a director at a club, you should not speak for others. Puke if you need to (sounds like an urgent need in your case), but the directors you refer to, to varying degrees, have considerable influence in their clubs. To be sure, there are clubs where the doc's are nothing more than paid figureheads for C3-parent-dominated boards. However, several local "cc's" give their doc's considerable influence over the direction of the clubs, and this is a growing trend. To write otherwise is stupid naivety. Your lesser of two evils leaves you in a system with no ethical or monetary checks on characters who have proven track records for requiring both. Try a little pepto, but stick to what you know.
9:02, right on!! half these people that are ranting and raving cant even name 5 starters on the full Womens Natl Team, let lone come and back the Lightning. It is tops for MN and for the Region. It should be alot of these girls top 5 goals to be able to play in the W-League.
People have no idea that 2 of these teams that are in the same division w/Lightning are going to be AA clubs for the new 09 Chicago Pro Womens League. Chi Gaels and the FC Indiana teams. What better way to be able to play in front of people that are starting to watch and scout for the pro league.
Say all you want about the level of the Lightning not being the best....however, like others have said in eariler posts-- it is the best we have for women right now.
The women's game is very different than the men's game (duh)...I know that it is a goal for my daughter to play atleast one summer prior to college for the Lightning. Great exposure, great opportunity to get a taste of what it will be like at D1, great opportunity to play with D1 level (and higher) players. What more can you ask for IN YOUR OWN BACK-YARD?
For anyone who says it isn't worth taking your daughters to watch these games-- can you please let me know what would be better? I would love to know, so that I can observe it with my daughter. Always looking for opportunities to watch the highest level games we can.
SSMSouthCampus
Since it seems we have taken a turn into Lightning talk from viewing their roster their team looks similar to last year. A solid back line and goaltending, one great player up top, and problems in the midfield. They are fortunate to be playing in the W league's weakest division so they are likely to make the playoffs again, but FC Indiana will probably knock them out of the top slot. CS is worth the price of a ticket herself. Take her away and this is a sub 500 team.
I have reliable information that says that the roster is not exactly up to date? Could be wrong, but I think there may atleast one addition not listed. And I think that she will add something to the team. Anyone else notice someone missing from the roster who would like to comment?
SSMSouthCampus
I am sure it is an SSM player as otherwise SSMSC would not be bringing it up. Would guess it is CC, a very good player but not one that will make a huge difference.
anderson, you're getting pretty predictable man.
I never said I was overly clever or sly....did I? I'd never make a good DOC anywhere. I am too transparent!
SSMSouthCampus
Heard Asst. Coach Herem named as Eastview head coach. Can anyone confirm this?
I received the email from EVHS with the announcement. Great news and congratulations to Coach Herem!
South Fan
The EV girls will be excited. He brings a lot of energy and fun along with soccer knowledge.
State Cup is over and I was wrong on every prediction - YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!
another anon heard from ! Yeah!!
anon 445 - so which previous calendar date and time did you post ? I didn't bring my roster form to keep track of all of you! Is Hershel Walker blogging on soccer posts.
mn futbol - now is the time to pull the plug.
Here's looking at you. It was fun while it lasted.
the fact tomass wants to pull the plug is reason enough to keep it going....
I always love the knock against "anon" on a blog. Seriously, does it really matter? It's not like your real name, address, phone numbers, kids names, etc... are available for viewing. What's the difference if your name is "sweeper", "bangumom", "fan of anonymity", "halfback jack", etc.... It's conceivable (since no one truly has any idea who these people are) they could all be the same person although I truly doubt that is the case. Except for a few folks out there who have divulged enough details to figure out who they are, everyone is in reality anonymous. The only benefit that I can see is that with a moniker that poster does tend to develop a "blog personality" and you can better follow their train of thought (not sure if that is always a good thing). I am not opposed to monikers, but they should be the blue ones like tomass has. I've seen enough of the "moniker fits the post comments" screen names over the years.
I agree with Tomass. Thanks for all you've done mnfutol, here in the blog world and for your other contributions to MN soccer. Good luck.
I love all of the folks that visit, read, and post on this blog and then have the audacity/ego to say that it should now be shut down because they apparently are tired of it or they are frustrated that others may disagree with their posts.
If the blog has outlived its usefulness for you, fine -- don't visit. If others agree, the blog will die naturally due to inactivity. But in the meantime, don't be presumptious enough to speak for everyone -- just look at the 870(!) posts under this one thread (even with minimal social networking by Tomass, ems and bangumom). I say keep the ridiculous, insightful, misguided, informative, entertaining, repetitive, boring, and provoking posts coming!
Any of the teams doing well in Midwest League?
No, unless you count first division, which is barely MN Premier league level.
The Bangu U17 Boys haven't lost yet in the Premier divion of MRL.
The U17 Tsunami Stars are 4-2-3 in the premier division. A very good record IMO at that level of play.
We all need to keep in mind that for Spring MRL, only MN, IL, KY, Ohio N & S, and IN compete as all the other states play HS (no MI, WI, MO). There are also a few of the higher clubs who are not always consistently sending there top players as they are also playing Red Bull and USYS National Leagues (and let's not forget the impact of the USSF Academy). Don't get me wrong, MN soccer is doing better and better every year and the future looks even brighter, but all the facts need to be on the table.
752, you're obviously a very bright and experienced soccer mind. If MRL First Division is barely MYSA Premier, then all our MYSA Premier teams should be walking through their MRL divisions. If you need the link to check this out let me know.
Actually 752 is correct, we have several teams at the top of the standings in First division.
Saying MWRL First Division is "Barely Minnesota Premier League" Level might possibly be the single most ignorant thing anyone has said on here... ever... and thats saying a lot.
Bangu U16 Girls Blue are at the bottom of the pile in their First Division (won 1 game). St. Croix and Edina are higher in the standings.
Here is a list of MN teams in the upper half of their MRL first division leagues.
U14 Bangu Boys
U14 SCV Boys
U14 MU Boys
U16 VU Boys
U16 SCV Boys
U17 EP Boys
U18 SSM Boys
U14 BanguB Girls
U14 BanguW Girls
U14 WYZ Girls
U15 WYZ Girls
U16 PSA Girls
U16 SCV Girls
U17 WDB Girls
U18 SSM Girls
In addition we have several of our best teams in the top half of their premier leagues.
It appears 7:52 was close to the mark, if exaggerating some. Looks like 1224 is eligible for his own award.
MRL First Division does provide a consistent higher level of play than MYSA Premier Division. If you research the teams you'll see that all the participants irregardless of state either placed well in State Cup or their own Premier League. I am a proponent of the league (this coming from a team that has played in the MRL for the past couple of years). The competition is strong, travel is reasonable, and the cost is cheaper than high level tournaments. As the MYSA Premier League continues to get watered down, I think you'll see more teams look to the MRL for better competition. The only drawback I see to the league is scheduling. Cramming MRL and State Cup games into basically a 5-6 period can take a toll on teams. I'd be in favor of a summer league (June and July) of the same sort. Granted you lose the teams headed to Regionals but I think you'd see teams 2-5 interested in this option.
The root cause of why Minn has not improved as much as everybody would like is.....There's a difference between talent and a player.Here in Minn it's easy to identify talent but we are not very good at developing "players".
It takes an exceptional coach to define and develop a player.This development should continue thru U18 but here in Minn most coaches say that's done by U 15. We spend more time on conditioning and formations.Our teams haven't plateaud. We simply stop the development 2-3 years too early.
It appears there are some parents who object to their DD's MRL First division good performance not being given proper credit. Congratulations to all division winners!! And runner ups!!
To Anon 2:03: I believe you may be on to something. The question is, why would MN coaches so think and act?
100 and 1224 and 943 (same person). Teams mentioned by 1244 are a combined 61-18-14. You still are in the lead for your award and also your label for others. LOL.
8:43PM, I think you miss the point in all your hate. The original post made the claim that MRL First Division is barely MYSA Premier. That is obviously an idiotic statement as shown by 12:44. Some of MN's top Premier teams are very competitive in their First Divisions and to my knowledge there is only one team running away with their league.
If the initial post claimed MRL First Division was comparable to MYSA Premier that may have held more water though still off the mark a bit.
MYSA Premier will continue to get watered down by MRL and the national leagues. Top level kids will gravitate to other programs and this will give more moms and dads here in MN the ability to claim that their child is a Premier player. And that's OK. MYSA Premier is not the end all be all of high level soccer though some people will try to claim otherwise, like the MYSA admin person posting here hating on MRL. j/k :)
We have almost finished our MRL first division season. Is it stronger than MYSA Premier? I would say yes, but not by much. The posts saying they are comparable is close to the truth. Other than being a possible route to the premier division it is not worth doing in my opinion. You would be better served entering a couple of regional tournaments.
Now that the State cup is over for most teams, does anyone know which coaches will NOT be returning to their teams next season?
On the topic of MRL games is it correct that U14 Bangu White beat Bangu Blue on Th night?
Bangu 14White played Bangu 14Blue on Friday night and it was similar to the state cup game whee both teams fight for ball control and counter attack. White had the edge in the first half but Blue came back strong in the second half winning 50-50 ball. There were only a couple of shot on goals by both teams. The game should have been a tie but it was raining and White had a free kick out side of the 18 and the ball squirted through Blue goalie's hands at less than 4 minutes remained.
Ahhh...the excuse machine begins to sputter to life....
I heard the blue team allowed the white team to win so both could move up to MWL premier level next year.
anon 10:16
Are you trolling for the conspiracy theory kooks?
Or are you serious?
1016
That was a good try. Only one team from the playoff pool out of 6 gets to advance to premier next year.
am
number
900!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone want to rank top teams at each age group. U10-U18. Yes I know U10's don't keep score but everyone knows the score and who win's.
Why not go all the way down to U-9 ? Kind of silly but at least something to talk about.
12:50 & 12:53 you are kidding on the younger ages - right? If not, then why not suggest asking all the CC 1st and 2nd grade parent coaches who are the real "up-and-comers"? I'm sure there are some 6 year old budding stars out there as well.
100- take a pill and chill out. Everyone knows you can't judge athletic ability until 7.
I'll try from 11 up :
U-11 Wayzata Wild things
Bangu 11's that play 12
Eau Claire
U-12 Eden Prairie Terminators
Bangu East (13 state cup winners)
Dakota Rev 12's playing 13
U-13 Bangu 14P
Burnsville
Tonka
U-14 Bangu Blue
Bangu white
U-15 Bangu Blue
U-16 Woodbury Inferno
U-17 Stars
U-18 Bangu
Bangu has the most top teams as I see it on the girls side. Not a real surprise as they also have the most State Cup Champions and Runner up teams.
What's with the U13 list? Tonka? They lost in the semis at State Cup. Where's Wings? Burnsville? They didn't get out of group play at State Cup. I am wondering why you listed those two teams..
1;25 Good point. I have seen Burnsville and Tonka play recently and they look very strong. In fairness I have not seen Wings play recently. You may be correct that Wings should be in, very hard to judge at this age and the early part of the season because unless you are in league play with the particular teams discussed any assesment may be based only on one or two samplings of each teams play.
115- are your younger age teams in any special order U11-U13?
1:39 No, just tried to identify some of the best teams I have seen so far this year , I have seen the Wayzata Wild Things for two years now and they are impressive, Have seen Bangu 11's that play 12 and Eau Claire this year, both looked well above average compared to competition.
Have seen all three of the U-12 teams listed play this year and prior. Rev and Bangu play 11v11 and EP is still 8v8. Hard to compare because it is more unclear on if EP has the depth of the other two teams, but they are a very good team at U-12. Edina also has a nice U-12 team.
U-13 still belongs to Bangu 14p in my mind. They are having a tough go as a 14 Premier team, but are a very strong 13 team. Burnsville and Tonka looked good recently, and as someone mentioned Wings deserves a mention at this age group also.
These are the TEAMS I believe are the best at each age group. No specific order.
Didn't we just have a state cup tournament to determine who the best teams are from U13-U18?
Abboud's 97s beat Wayzata in NSC Cup by 5 goals. No doubt who is top now. Who is top in a couple years? That remains to be seen.
U11 Bangu Blue, Wayzata, Bangu White
U12 Bangu East, Dakota Rev, Bangu South Blue
U13 Bangu Blue, Eau Calire, Tonka/Wings
U14 Bangu Blue, Bangu White, Wayzata
U15 Bangu Blue, Eden Praire
U16 Woodbury, ???
U17 Bangu Stars, Bangu Select
U18 Bangu, ????
anon 248-
bangu select 17s just lost by 5 to wsc in mrl right?
WBL is #2 at U17. They beat both Wings and WSC at State Cup.
Does Bangu have the top 9 and 10 teams also ? They are very prominantly mentioned in all of the other girls age groups.
I know of the teams playing in the South. The U-9 teams that seem the most developed are Lakeville 1 and EP 1. Seems to figure, they both have the most numbers to pull from.
Do Lakeville and EP have strong inhouse programs for development, or are they just better because of the numbers game.
Bangu has U9 and U10 in east. Not sure about south. The larger community clubs will have a harder time competing against a Bangu/Thunder team due to their teams being usually comprised of the better players from mulitple cities. I do think a Lakeville and EP will be better than most because of their size. They also probably have more resources than most.
Bangu is playing their top 9 team as Tournament only.
Listen, the largest clubs are going to have the strongest 9 and 10 teams. That's a no brainer. So what? We're now getting caught up on which club has the top U9 talent? At an age group that we don't keep score or standings? You guys are crazy.
2:48,
U13 Eau Claire??? Other than beating an injury-depleted Bangu 12E team, what recommends them? Check the NSC Cup results. They are athletic and attacking-minded, but they are not among the top handful in this age group.
I saw this kid at the New Horizon's pre-school the other day. Awesome is the only word to describe her. Not sure which clubs are wooing her. The only drawbacks are she still sucks her thumb occassionally and her acceleration slows down when her diaper is wet. Seriously, I can't believe this thread is talking about U9 teams. Newbies.....
At U-13 two teams that deserve mention are Maplebrook and Twin Cities Fire. Both teams are athletic. TC fire was very solid last year, (have not seen yet this year) and Maplebrook was competitive in State Cup, 1-2 but tight games.
On another note, I see the 9 and 10 talk was more a question about why some clubs do better at that age, Numbers, resources, and coaching? If these larger clubs have better resources why the need to jump to a Thunder/Bangu program? Is it a desire for a quick fix, "the kids around me aren't developing at my kids pace so we will leave and find a team that fits my kids play level".
I can see a top player from a club that can't support an age group leaving to an elite program, but how many teams does Bangu have at all ages 12 and under that are average at best? quite a few I would guess.
I guess I'm not sure how those teams fall into Bangu's mission to be Minnesota's Elite Soccer Club.
By the way it looks like Bangu and MA believe it is important to identify talent early.
From Bangu's web site: Bangu Tsunami Academy EarlyID Program:
"This is not your run of the mill recreational program. Bangu Tsunami FC is recognized here in the state, in the Midwest region, and across the nation as Minnesota's premier soccer club. With many top players in the area flocking to our year-round Soccer Academy program, some of our most qualified staff coaches are now looking to take their years of experience and begin identifying talent from as early as six years of age." Mark Abboud follows up with some comments which describes that this is a program that cannot be matched by the Community associations and is a program only for the best.
I guess Bangu can identify talent by age 6. Seems that by talking about 9 year olds this thread is starting too late.
Bangu's success at the older ages is spectacular and should be recognized . I just have a hard time with solicitation and marketing efforts now aimed at ages down to six and then providing a average or below average product. Maybe I am wrong, If a family has an older sibling in the club why shouldn't the younger sibling have an opportunity to play for the same club?
I am just confused as to who Bangu is trying to be : the premier soccer club in MN. or a club (like a community club) that has an opportunity for all skill levels?
In a non-word: Cha-ching ($). Money is the bottom line. They realize that the message sells very well to each new, naive set of parents and if 6-year olds' parents believe that their kid will be a superstar if they only pay up, then why not?
Reality comes much later...
This is why Bangu and now Thungu have not and will not live up to the hype and promises made. Bangu is simply a collector of talented and elsewhere trained players, they are quite effective at it yet will never deliver the true elite soccer to get teams to the next level. The 6 year old-10, 11 year old business is not helpful nor healthy for soccer. The guys there need to make big income to match their overblown self sense of importance hence the shameful preying on the egos of parents. Another blogger correctly refers to these teams as cash cows. The other elite programs from other states we hear referred to on here generally do not engage in that nonsense.
I wouldn't say Bangu is "spectacular" at the older ages either. They simply collect talent. I see less development there than at CCs. If the parents were thinking they would have "collected" themselves and gone to a CC for better development at a more economical cost.
I agree the Thunder/Bangu model will disapoint as it was proposed.
If the Mn Thunder really want Youth soccer to support the franchise and feel pride in the franchise I find it amazing that they are willing to alienate 90% of the soccer community by having their name attached to an academy that will compete against all of the U-9 thru U-12 Community based teams. The Thunder teams will just be a rebranding of Bangu and it is clear that much of the Love/Hate attached to Bangu is because it is marketed as the "elite" soccer club in MN. Bangu is Not attached to any geographic location, hence pulls players from throughout the area, which clearly creates anomosity from the Community Clubs, and then rubs the CC's nose in it by competing against them in League play or local Tournament play.
For the Thunder program to work it needs to appeal to the entire soccer community. It is hard for a kid/parent/club to compete against the "elite" Thunder academy teams up to age 12 and then suddenly embrace them once the child turns 13 (when the true Thunder teams are to begin).
Of course having only one team per age group from 13+ doesn't provide the revenue needed to support such a program , or replace the income lost to the paid staff from the current Bangu program . It is too bad that a system couldn't evolve to get the top players who want to travel and really live soccer 24/7 together with the blessing of each players Community Club. The current proposal falls short in far too many areas to have a legitimate chance to unite the soccer community and represent MN at the highest levels.
12:17 I am a CC parent and I think Bangu's State Cup success especially on the girls side indicate they are doing a pretty good job of organizing that talent pool into some pretty efficient teams. Very impressive record.
This is from the Bangu website from a couple of players who were named Ms. Soccer. This is how progress/satisfaction with experience should be interpreted - through the eyes of the girls. I am biased as my family wears Bangu blue, but I think that the players have done a nice job of defining their experience on a "collected" team.
“Two years ago I decided I needed to push myself to the next level regarding soccer if I wanted to be ready to play in college. I was then invited to tryout for the new Bangu team. I made the team, and since then my game has changed completely. Being apart of the Bangu 89/90 Blue team has changed my level of play significantly. Bangu has showed me that soccer is about more than just the game. I have to come prepared mentally and physically every day and for everything I do. My Bangu team helped me understand that. Practicing with the team is probably the thing that has affected me the most. Being in such a high level training session all winter and summer long helped me to push myself and work on the things I needed to do most. Every player on the team pushes each other in their own way and that was something I did not have on teams I had played on before. My coach is totally committed to helping each player be at their best on and off the field. He knows what we can do and won’t let us settle for less. Bangu has done a great job preparing me for my college career.”
“Bangu has been a great influence on me both as a person and as a player. I have grown tremendously as a player over the past two years while training with Bangu. I have truly learned what it means to train on the edge, to compete intensely in everything I do, and I have fine-tuned my skills and become more confident in my play. The coaches are always there to support me with anything, whether it’s soccer related or life problems. My Bangu 89/90 Blue team has bonded extremely well and has grown to into one large family. I could not have asked for a better, more hard-working set of girls, or a better coach. Each day in practice, I feel pushed beyond my limits and by the end I know that I have improved from just that one day’s training. Changing clubs to Bangu was the best thing I ever did for myself in soccer. It has made me a more dynamic player and prepared me well for college. I know that when I leave for college next year I will be at my best and as prepared I could ever be because of all that Bangu has taught me.”
More haters getting their undies in bundles. Sheesh. Why don't you all focus a fraction of your energy on the kids who choose to be part of your club. Let the Bangu people focus their energy on what they believe. They are the self-proclaimed elite in Minnesota, so let them proclaim. If people flock to their banner and the product isn't there to match expectation their club will eventually wither away into nothingness. Considering they've gone from 4 teams to 40 in five years, I guess we'll all have to wait until next year to see any withering effect take place.
Oh by the way, start doing some research into the Brazilian and European professional academies. I think you'll see that there is identification emphasis as early as, yep, age 6.
Well whose comments would you expect to be posted on Bangu's website? The unsatisfied leave or quietly stay on hoping for the best. Please ...
Let's not forget Bangu 15 Blue, 14 Blue, 14 White, 13 Blue and East 12are all Bangu Academy developed teams and I believe every one is a state cup champ or runner-up. It looks to me like the model is working very well and is only going to bet better under the Thunder banner, those of you who don't think so are saying so because you hope they fail.
And to say other elite clubs don't have "cash cow" teams is ignorant. Look at Eclipse, Magic, Texans, Carmel, they have tons of teams that are not elite and those people make way, way, way more money than any Bangu director. Bangu is doing nothing, I repeat nothing different than any of the elite clubs in the country and they are doing it pretty well. Look at the progress this state has made in the last 5-6 years as a soccer state. Why has MN become one of the better states in Region 2??
The Bangu boys also have some great younger Academy teams.
Their U13's just won State Cup and their U12 boys are arguably the best team in the state.
I have to admit it does seem their Academy model is working quite well.
Give credit where credit is due.
153, I would if this was the boys side but it is the girls so that is probably why no one has mentioned the boys.
1:29 I'm not sure if you are unable to read and comprehend or blinded by your obvious hate for all except Goobers. Develop is not the same as concentration of talented kids developed by others. Having a large portion of a team for 2-3 months then having success at State Cup is not development. The Goobers are the best at sowing seeds of resentment towards ohter clubs and coaches then parlaying that into on field success. Not the model many want but at this time there seems to be a lack of will to change the status quo. For Minnesota to get to higher level success, we need different people providing true elite soccer opportunities for a smaller number of kids. We do not have the population to sustain many high level teams (regionally successful) at each age group.
There can NEVER be consensus by the masses in support of the elite. Bangu claims to develop kids and they do that. I don't think they've ever claimed that kids DON'T develop in their community clubs. Bangu may claim a better development environment but better is relative to ones own needs, desires, and abilities.
Bangu is very good at what they do, collecting players. They do not develop talent better than CCs do. In fact I believe that the vast majority of CCs develop talent better than Bangu. I may be wrong but It's my observation that the better players/teams in the Bangu club did most of their developing in CCs. How many Bangu players on the top teams have been there more than 3 years? Not many I bet. If a girl plays soccer from age 6 or 7 in their CC then draws the attention of the goobers at 13 and is "collected" her development was from the CC. Any of the top Bangu teams would be equally as good or better if the had "collected" themselves to nearly any CC. Bangu has good coaches. They are NOT better than most CC coaching staffs. This is all about consolidation of existing talent, nothing more. As parents we should see this and "collect" where we want at a cheaper cost (I'm not only talking financially here).
3:44,
So at what age do coaches and clubs stop "developing" players?
Does development stop at U12? U13?
Or do players continue to develop at U15-U19 under a coach like Danny Storlien?
Do players continue to develop under top level college coaches like Anson Dorrance?
I'm curious to hear your answer as you seem to be an expert on youth player development.
3:44PM, good point. However, please provide the answer to where is the cheaper club for this collected talent. Woodbury? Go ask them how much their elite Inferno team pays. St Croix? Wings? Go ask them how much their top teams pay. I think you'll find that it's just about the same as teams who play in Bangu. Top teams have top players who are top players partly because the train more often. More training means more dome/gym expenses. More travel equals more expense.
Bangu has many good coaches, CCs have many good coaches. Though I think you'll find many more coaches in CC's getting paid more than Bangu coaches.
I'm for the "collection" of talent. This is how this talent gets better. If you think a top player can find the same development surrounded by a team full of players not at their level, and I don't care how good the coach is, I'd say you haven't coached before. All who have know that you're limited in what you can do by the lower level players at any given training session. MYSA is trying to address this issue through ODP, so it's not just a elite club thing.
Just my thoughts, hopefully sparking dialog, not hate.
My dd is a 'goober', her third year on a team. She left her cc as a good player, but not one of the elite.
The team commitment was significantly different than the previous cc. All the girls wanted to be there; showed up for training (even at 8am on Saturdays during the winter) and became friends off the field and on. As the two previous Ms Soccer comments said - the desire to get better was a real driving force for each person individually and as a team.
There was no sense of 'entitlement' because they lived in the community. Each player had to earn their stripes.
Development once on this team was key to their success. Everyone drank the 'koolaid' together and it worked. It was a goal of my dd to make the team, to play collegiately. And she achieved it because of the support from her team, her coach and the club.
Minnesota shouldn't use the term "elite" until we can develop a number of blue chip recruits on a yearly basis.I can't think of any players being recruited by a top ten nationally ranked college team.
We have some good cc and club coaches but we don't have any with with the experience or the track record of developing blue chip players.
I think when a club has teams in region finals, winning region championships and sending a team to the national championship match on more than 1 occasion that would be called elite.
I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
3:44 "Collecting" players??
When was the last time you looked at a Bangu girls roster and checked to see how many of the players have been with the club more than three years.
The answer is most of them!! From the Stars on down most of the players have been with the there team or the club for at least 3 years. This include the current U13 team, The academy system has been in place for 5 years and most of the current top players are from the academy system. You can try all you want to give credit to the cc's but Bangu is developing the large majority of their teams. What you find they are doing now is "supplementing" players from cc's that will help their teams get better.
And, once again, how is this different than any other real club in the US? It's not!!
4:36 Current MN players have been recruited by top ten programs, none have chosen to attend. Being recruited and attending are two very different things.
530 is correct about current MN players being recruited by top ten programs but choosing to go elsewhere. 530 is also correct in leaving out the names. Let's keep it that way.
Current MN players? Does that include Shattuck?? Because there are some players there that will be Sr's this fall that will be attending some nicely ranked programs. Boys and Girls.
No, this does not include SSM. They are not a MN program and never will be. I don't care how you want to defend the program, they are not a MN program. I am happy for CC, she is a great player but she is by no means a product of MN soccer. As far as the boys program, I cannot speak for them.
SSM is a whole different animal and should not be considered in the conversation. If they field a team of entirely MN players than we can discuss them but that will never happen, team canada would be a better reference than any.
3:11 Wrong. SSM, preferably a subsidized residential academy program is what would end the argument regarding elite soccer. What do you propose next, if a player wasn't born in Mn or has ever left the state they cannot be on a Mn team? I see way too much jealousy and hate directed at SSM and it's obvious from where it comes. I assume we will all exhort our DOC's and coaches at all clubs to send their truly elite players to SSM to get a full time elite soccer experience or we may have to play the possession card.
Yeah, quit recruiting my bangu players! It's not fair!
Anyone can say they've been "recruited" by such and such a program.
So, all we have to go by is where MN players are ending up.
And, the fact is, not one 2008 girl cracked the top 25 ranked NCAA D1 teams.
The answer to the SSM debate is simple. Ask the kids what they consider themselves. Minnesotans or Iowans or whereever their from. When I went to the UofM all the kids from Wisonsin still considered themselves cheeseheads eventhough they went to school in Minnesota. If they don't consider Minnesota home why would you??
10:35 Blasphemer! Bangu cranks out top level D-1 players quicker than GM builds cars nobody wants. Go to their website and see, or read above testimonials from their players.
10:35 I don't think anyone disputes that there are no 2008's going to top 25 programs. That is correct. Your original post said that none were recruited by such programs. That is incorrect. There are reasons to select a college other than the current quality of the soccer team. Not sure what your motivation is to question this, as you obviously do not know the facts, but MN is producing high level players.
10:35.....you are correct. The data supports your comment.
Two of our top elite coaches(one cc and one Bangu)both have said by the time they take over the U15 teams for all intents and purposes player development has been completed.
Several players from top clubs have had advanced personal development from local pros and ex-pros that wasn't available at their clubs.
Minnesota doesn't do a very good job of developing "players".This is pretty evident when you observe our top teams.We have a lot of one dimensional athletes and few players.This has to change if we are to be more competitive at the national level.
What do you mean "recruited" ? There are different levels of recruiting. Scholarship offers? How much?. Are you their #1 inside mid? Lots of programs will recruit you to be part of a large group (numbers on the chance some will pan out).
How blind..There is a U17 Bangu player that started last Sunday on the Lightning (2-0 by the way) as a outside mid. Go watch her and that should answer some of your questions. I have no dog in this fight. But yea, there are some good players coming out of MN. Its easy for you to sit in your skivvies knocking everyone and everything. Why dont you go back up the next level. Does it really matter where they are from anyway?? Jeeeeeeez All this stuff going back and forth about U12s did that, U14s are the best in the Region, what does it all matter anyway??
1:09 WHY ARE YOU IMAGINING THE REST OF US IN OUR SKIVVIES? EWWWWWWWW!
On a slightly different note, I noticed that the u14 bangu premier girls (the true u13 team) is 0-5-1 in Premier league play and firmly in last place. what did moving this team up prove? didn't it just take a spot from someone else given the team was basically put together from new kids? add to that, the u12 playing up to u13 state cup champs already have 1 loss and 1 tie in league and the u12s playing up in the south have 2 losses and a tie. my belief is bangu starts the year with an advantage (at state cup) primarily from early tournaments and winter training, but as the rest of the teams get into the groove, those teams really aren't better than average and should probably just play their age. as more teams expand their year round training and early season play, the gap should close. is there a defensible argument for these teams to play up and be mediocre?
Of course there are good players in MN.
I thought the question was, do we have an "elite" club ?
And, if Anon 12:54's comments about the coaches are true , it might explain why no MN players are breaking into the top college ranks.
Shame on those guys for taking the money and running.
Theoretical question: I know of two 08 girls and there could be others that were offered (70%+) at Top 15 programs. They both decided to go elsewhere. If they had indeed gone to these top soccer schools would we still be hearing this argument that MN isn't producing any high level players? 1233 is right, there are other factors than how good the soccer team is that go into choosing a school. I am not sure we should judge a players worth by the school they choose to attend.
3:34 Thank you for saying what everyone is thinking. That 12 play up stuff is about one thing only, recruiting kids. Parents wait breathlessly and hear those magic words your daughter can play up here. Done, check book out my daughter is elite. The neighbors are gonna be sooo jealous, her cc coach was no good anyway, even the Bangu guys said so.
3:34 great post 4:08 very witty! My take is this, the Inferno did this, was and stayed very successful. The Bangu brain trust was not going to sit and be one upped by a CC. The exception proves the rule in this case. I am for a discussion of moving 12's to full field, not for it, but am willing to see the pros and cons.
4:17 - check your history better. There have been a few teams before the Inferno that played up (Sota, Stars - just to name a few).
And the Stars won their league every year they played up!!!
SOOOOOO What! And what does that get you?? Stop bragging already.
3:34 I agree 100% . Bangu has one of , if not the best winter training opportunities of all clubs, Hats off to them for that, But it gives them a significant advantage in State Cup being State Cup is a Pre-Season tournament in MN. Clearly they still produce good teams, but whether they the best in MN by the end of the season, or even the middle of the season could be realistically questioned. Great post 3:34, But I disagree that playing up is only about recruiting, My kids played up and I believe it was very much a valuable lesson for them. They were about .500 but they were pushed when otherwise wouldn't have been.
Ok, I am now convinced that SSM should never list that they are from Minnesota, the players should always list thier home as whatever-town in whatever-State on bios, and never give any recognition to anything that even resembles Minnesota. It should be regulated like the Native-American owned casinos and be considered its own country. And, while I am on the subject, I think that anyone who moves into Minnesota to work at Medtronic or 3M from outside MN should not be required to pay MN State taxes or vote in MN. I think you should shut down the borders and post the MN National Guard to keep everyone out.
I have met some very, very high quality soccer people in MN over the past year (shout out to Woodbury U15G parents and coaches; Coach Kaasa; Players and parents from Wayzata, Lakeville, Kelix, MN ODP92 and 93s, Blackhawks, St Croix Premier, and Tom S). The thing which continually amazes me is the absolute ignorance which the FEW people on this blog who make MN parents seem so ignorant and small minded. It is the short sighted, jealous individuals who cry "woa is me....my child's cc is being robbed of its best players and we never get credit for developing that U6 player before she moves on to Bangu" who give the impression that everyone associated with soccer in MN is stupid. IT IS NOT A BACKWATER STATE, I wish that people would wake up and realize that the things you complain about don't matter.
What does matter? Is your child gaining everything they can from thier current experience? If so, that is great. If not, look around and find the better alternative for them. Don't criticize others for the decisions they have made, hopefully thier decision was an informed one and they did what was right by thier kids. Sure as hell no one else is looking out for your kid....wake up and do what is right. We have no right to criticize decisions people make for thier kids (even if it does weaken your little Mia's team).
SSMSouthCampus
Correct Bangu has the best teams in May and would still have the best teams in July. You guys are basing your results on MYSA league play on teams that are playing up. Most of the top Bangu teams do not play in league, they are focused on other things, like regionals. So what if the teams playing up are not at the top of the league, they are all competing and getting better by playing tougher competition. Yes the U13's are getting hammered in league, the rest of that league is far superior physically and they are struggling to compete, but they are forced to battle every night and that will make the better in the long run.
SSMSC, I don't believe we can consider SSM a MN team, they are not. But I do support them and what they are doing because they are pushing the envelope and offering a product that is right for some. Although you are barking up the wrong tree, most of the idiots on this site would not know what is good for soccer if it hit them in the head.
For all the people who think you know so much, go get four teams, start a club and lets see where you are in 6 years. I guarentee it will be no where near 40 teams and close to 30 state cup titles.
Gee, shall we then have a discussion about the kids (boys) who are originally from Somalia? (Somali culture being what it is, the girls have very limited chances to participate in any sport.) If it were not for some of these young Somali men, several teams from certain clubs would be also-ran status.
SSM is what it is: a residential academy that has kids from all over the US and world participating in a variety of sports and activities--including soccer. You can shove you head in the sand and say what you will about them "never being a Minnesota" team, yadda yadda yadda.
I'm not going to debate the residency requirements 8:28, but USYSA rules allow them to be a Minnesota team, regardless of your opinion or mine so move on.
Nope, 8:48-- I say we don't let MN reap any recognition for anything that SSM does. The "people" (all three of them) have spoken.....
SSMSouthCampus
My opinion, (which with $2.15 will get you a large coffee at Caribou) is that Bangu is the top club in the state., (though it hurts to say so) because they have produced wins, Not necessarily players, but certainly wins. They have a surprisingly, in my opinion, large following. I personally think it is a bummer that the CC's can't upend the momentum Bangu has created. I think we have about one third too many Community Clubs which feeds right into MA and his marketing team( hard to argue they do a great job marketing their product). If we had a third fewer clubs, Bangu and the Non cc type clubs would struggle. They fill a precieved need that many CC's are unable to fill due to pure numbers in their geographic location.
If you want to win, Just go out and recruit players. (and they are good at it). It somehow just feels wrong, Steal other players just so they can personally enjoy the feeling of winning. Seems to me their is a much more satisfying feeling in DEVELOPING a group of kids into a great team.
Come on CC's pick up the pace, Bangu is not David, just invest in your kids and give those who want , the ability to train year around.
Thanks for letting me get that off my chest.
I absolutely hope some of the better CC's can produce and keep top players, as I believe it will overall be the best thing for MN soccer.
Go Lakeville, Wayzata, Maplebrook, Burnsville, Eden Prairie, Tonka, St Croix, Dakota Rev,St Croix, Woodbury, etc.( I know I missed some) Proove that the the CC's can give ANY and ALL players the chance to play at the highest level.
1025- aren't Rev and St. Croix clubs. How are they going to help prove CC's can give "ANY and ALL players the chance to play at the highest level." Even the CC's listed have kids on their teams from communities outside their borders.
R.E.V is Rosemount, Eagan and Valley (Apple Valley), or some say Rosemount and Eastview. Not 100% sure which is right, but Dakota Rev is overwhelmingly comprised of kids from that south metro area.
Dakota refers to Dakota County.
I'm trying to figure out what the basis for all of the negativity about Bangu is. Here are the arguments I have heard:
1. Bangu recruits
2. Bangu just cares about money
3. Bangu doesn't develop players
4. Bangu is too expensive
Anyone have others?
Ooh, how about
5. Bangu relies upon athleticism to play boot and scoot, but can't play soccer
8:27 - surely you jest (and don't call me Shirley).
6. Bangu brainwashes parents with koolaid and forces kids to join their program
7. Bangu is all talk and doesn't provide the services expected, that's why most kids leave after 1 year and there is zero growth in their Academy and in their elite programs
8. Bangu is floundering and not on the right track in terms of elite player development, that's why the Thunder want to absorb their program to start their own elite academy
9. The Thunder suck and their organization is going up in flames, that is why Bangu wants to be a part of it
10. Bangu has kids from Wisconsin so they're (like SSM) not a true MN club
The basis for negativity - those who are in charge of running the programs.
me thinks 8:52 woke up on the wrong side of the pitch....
me thinks 852 is right on the money.
What now,,? bad enough you Goobers run around the community bad mouthing all other clubs, now you are in the hate business too?
nice try 10:45, but I doubt anyone will bite. You might want to put some new bait on your hook and cast again.......
We weren't recruited by Bangu - we looked at other clubs including other cc clubs before going to Bangu.
We left the local cc because
1.) All players on the top team were automatically returned to the top team the next year. Quote from the cocah 'they new kids have to pay their dues, even if they just moved to the area".
2.) Afore mentioned coach had never played organized soccer.
3.) No winter program.
If Bangu didn't exist, or if players would not be allowed to switch teams, we would have dropped out of organized soccer years ago. I'm am sure most clubs and cc teams are not as bad as the one we left, but without choices the opportunity for parent coaches to run their little fiefdoms in favor of their own kid and kids friends does not benefit MN soccer.
splitsville
I go back to an argument which other refuted some time ago. How can you "steal" something that isn't yours? I thought we established that no one really thought that the cc's "owned" players?
YOU DON'T OWN PLAYERS...they are consumers. If you don't provide the consumer the product they want/need, they will go elsewhere.
I know this first-hand, my daughter left a State Cup Champion team for her current environment. Maybe she'll earn a patch with her new team someday?
SSMSouthCampus
A statement like that will get people's blood boiling! Just wanting to stir the pot.....
SSMSouthCampus
I agree with whoever it was that said Bangu doesn't develop players. As a matter of fact neither do the cc's.That's the real shortcoming in Minnesota soccer. Very few goals are scored resulting from creative play.The scores usually come off set plays.
It's sad but in Minnesota it's boot and scoot and resembles track more than soccer.
Coaches can/do have a great affect on players, it is not just up to the players themselves. Maybe these coaches think they are great motivators but some also play a lot of mind games and destroy self-esteem of players, especially at early ages and through their early teen years when self-esteem is a huge factor in a player's success. Love of the game then goes in the tank, thanks to a bad coach, regardless of a player's potential.
this weather sucks.
I agree with whoever it was that said Bangu doesn't develop players. As a matter of fact neither do the cc's.That's the real shortcoming in Minnesota soccer. Very few goals are scored resulting from creative play.The scores usually come off set plays.
It's sad but in Minnesota it's boot and scoot and resembles track more than soccer.
Boy, arent you short sighted!!
If Minnesota teams and clubs aren't developing players then how are we placing more kids on Region 2 teams and in national pools than ever before?
Some of you folks need to think about what you say before sticking your foot in your mouth.
Take a look at the numbers and tell me I'm wrong.
(Maybe you folks are better judges of talent that the Region 2 and National level coaches??? Hmmmm?)
agree with 1:41. In addition there are other players at these age levels as good as these players. The talent pool is deeper than it has ever been.
I found three players, listed with the homestate of MN, on the National Team pool rosters.
(U15 Bangu; U18 PSA; U23 St.Croix)
Clearly, this is quite an accomplishment for this trio of girls.
However, it hardly proves MN has an elite club developing players to the highest level.
I thought this was the issue being debated.
Moreover, if you look through these rosters…
You do see some clubs consistently placing teams at every level (U15-U23).
IMHO, these would be the truly “elite” organizations.
I agree with 7:15am. A coach makes all the difference with attitude. What would be the best suggestion for a player that has a disagreement with a coach if the coach will not discuss a situation? How should players address a coach that does not want any opinions from the players? I would be interested to hear what people have to say on this issue. What would you tell the player to do to keep going until the next season when the player can find a new team or a new coach without causing termoil for others involved?
most goals at the professional level come from set plays as well. your argument doesnt hold water. MN soccer has consistently improved over the past 10-15 years, so have other state's programs. the overall game in the US is improving. the MLS was a joke 8 years ago. now there is more organized and more creative play. this improvement is probably due to improved and year round training at the earlier age groups. soccer also draws more top athletes than 10 or 15 years ago...especially on the girls side.
why all the arguing over which club does what? if you current situation isnt to your liking, go to a different team. make sure you player is improving and having fun.
U19 Finals:
PSA Girls 2 - St. Croix 1
Bangu Boys 2 - Maplebrook 0
St Croix girls loose, again, in a shootout....
They deserve nothing less with a coach who is such a dink.
You can say all you want about them, but State Cup is offically over and of the 14 titles, Bangu won 8 (57%). No other club won more than 1. That equals last years total and means over the last three years they would have won 23 of the 42 finals. Love em or hate em, but the numbers are impressive.
What is scarier is what is happening on the girls side. With the 12's winning at 13, they will be the favorites to win next year at 13. Their U11 age group is also really deep. For 2009, the only age group that they will not be the favorites (or defending champion) will be U17 where the Inferno will still rule. Doesn't mean any of the teams mentioned above will win, but they have put a nice foundation in place.
Yes.
Bangu is the top club.
Can we give it a rest now?
Congrats to last night's PSA U19 girls who upset the favorites.
The PSA GK ,headed to the U next year, is a lot of fun to watch.
I am
1000!!
Anyone have an update on the two PSA U16 Midwest Regional games from this past weekend?
Any predictions on regionals?
834
You obviously are some disgruntled parent because there is no better person let alone coach then TM. He coaches for the love of the game and asks for no salary. How many high level coaches do that nowadays?
So is Bangu your favorite at U14 next year then? Will they even have a U14 team?
Anon 10:01- I don't know any and we've been in "premier/mwl" soccer since 02. If it's true about TM, then he is clearly in the minority...
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