The deadline for suggestions/ideas for rule changes is fast approaching. All rules change proposals are due to MYSA by August 6th at 5:00 PM. Make sure you dot your "i's" and cross your "t's" or is that "cross your eyes" and "grit your teeth?" To quote the topic suggester:
" I smell a bumper crop of bloviated bureaucratic bulls*** coming to an AGM near you this fall..."
Here is a link to the form: http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/forms/rulessubmittal.pdf
Thank you to the topic suggester, for suggesting the topic! I wasn't sure if "bloviated" was an actual word but I looked it up. According to a free dictionary online it means:
To discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner: "the rural Babbitt who bloviates about 'progress' and 'growth'" George Rebeck.
41 comments:
I think most coaches would agree that it is sometimes tough to manage parent behavior during the game. I'd like to see an MYSA rule mandating that teams take up opposite sides on the field during games, with the team's parents alongside the team and the coach. May cause for some distractions for the players with the parents on the sidelines, but the benefits would, IMO, far outweigh the negatives.
* Coaches are close enough to hear AND address parent behavior and commentary during the matches. The coach should be able to focus on coaching, I agree, but I've always held to the belief that when you sign on to coach U11s, you are many times actually coaching U40s.
* Because of the proximity to the coach and the rest of the kids, parents may temper their negative/coaching comments a bit... may.
* Parents will be able to witness what the coach is saying to the team during the game, and this will go a long way to addressing potential communication issues that arise.
* Parents would no longer be side by side with opposing parents, something that most definitely fuels the fire of poor commentary during tight match ups.
This might make things a bit more difficult for the refs as they now have to look at two sidelines for subbing, but this seems minor when compared with the issues a change like this could address.
Just a thought here, but I think it would be a good change. I'd be interested in anyone's comments.
I think that it a very good idea. Having had kids play MYSA over the course of 15 years, the parental issue is still there. Parents yelling instructions to players, loudly protesting the ref, bickering among opposing teams parents, etc. The last, but not least player of our bunch, is always complaining about the parents yelling so loud that she can't hear her coach. I personally enjoy watching the game in the corner away from the yelling.
A solution for one team that I had kids on, was to have tootsie pops passed out at every game for the parents. It kept the comments to a minimum and extras were doled out as needed.
Good luck with your team, Mark!
Your idea is based in sound reasoning...which means it has no chance of passing ;) Only silly, restrictive, vengful and anti-bangu rules need be suggested!
I can't see the MNSRA wanting to make it any more difficult for their refs.
Also, any rule suggested by the "evil bangu" will be promply dispatched.
At a minimum, the parents should be forced to sit straight across from their team and at least 15 yards away from the center line. That would at least keep the parent-parent drama down.
Great idea Mark. Love your site and appreciate your thoughts and continued commentary about improving the game here in MN. Good luck to your girls this weekend.
The success of this idea would demand the presence of charismatic and well respected coaches such as yourself, mabboud.
However, it would be a nightmare at the classic/grassroots level where many of the coaches are regular joes and janes just trying to give their kids an opportunity to play. I can imagine lots of parents yelling at coaches to play there kid, or to do this or do that.
It would be nice if every c2 and c3 team in the state had a former professional player as their coach, that could demand the parents respect, but that is a little unrealistic.
The idea is a little elitist in that respect. It would be a good idea for the premier league and high level tournaments, but would probably lead to problems at the lower levels. Unfortunately, MYSA still needs to make decisions for all, not just the top players.
Sounds like we need more common sense and less rules.
1) would also like to see (when possible) parents back at least 3 yards (not 3 feet) from the touch line - there is no useful purpose for spectators to be that close ( common sense)
2) parents shouting "shoot" or "pass" during the "moment of decision" is lost on the players- by the time they hear it, the opportunity to make the correct decision has gone by, besides the fact your sideline angle gives you a poor decision making point of view since you are not closely involved in the play (though you want to be see point 1) more common sense.
I think there may be more pros to cons in Mark's suggestion. You will get the territorial battles from all the fields running north and south due to one team and group of parents having to look into the sun, but if you play home and away with a team that would be known as home field advantage for that one game.
The helicopter parents will be more difficult to keep away from the team since they are now closer and see that possible influence is now available...it would be like teasing them.
I don't know if it should be that big of deal with the referees. If anything it requires them to be more in-tuned to the situation and might make the team of referees work better togther if the AR's have to mirror the substitution signal to make sure the referee is informed of the need. They should be doing this anyway but this might force the need for better referee teamwork.
I say ask the players what they want. I know a response you will hear is they wish the parents would just shut-up. Having parents of the same team on the same side would make it an easier walk for the player that I send over after I have taken them out of a game just for the sole purpose of asking their parents to shhhhhh!
Whew, Tomass as ever the most intelligent person on this planet on all topics. Good to see you spewing your sage advice on the hockey boards as well. What is your hat size?
Not having been around for 15 years but would be curious to hear if coaches think the parent behavior has gotten better or worse since MYSA made the rule change that players and parents needed to be on opposite sides of the field?
I think the reasoning for making the rule changes was because of the parent behavior on the sidelines then too.....
So the question should be asked? Did it work?
can you feel the love - when does offering opinions make one think they are the most intelligent person on the earth ??
If anything it has nothing to do with intelligence, that I have proven many times before. It is about the ability to be confident in having, stating, supporting opinions; right or wrong.
Now if you want to claim me to be arrogant your argument could be supported much better by both my friends and detractors. Just a common man with plenty of opinions.
Have an opinion, give an opinion is my motto.
That is what blogs allow people to do? Correct?
Agree with my opinions if you want. Disagree with them if you want. Debate and offer counterpoints to those things you don't agree with.
I am glad you shared your opinion, thank you. I do not mind polarizing people. It sounds like a struck a chord.
I don't wear hats too often (unless to cover bed head), I have good hair. I also have a rule of never trusting a referee who wears a hat but that's just my opinion
anon 357
just my opinion - the more kids in a single family that have gone through soccer (or any sport) the better behaved the parents....life learning and parenting process occurs. A parent on their 3rd child in a sport is almost as good as as having an orphan to coach on the team.
Tomass I agree. I think it is the "perspective" thing.
I know a few parents of U13 state cup teams who are all bent out of shape over not making the finals. Others, from the winning team, who believe they have reached the promised land. The U13 boys state cup champs have already lost and tied a game in league and may not even make premier...wouldn't that be a travesty? Or ironic? Or fitting? I suppose it depends on your perspective.
I don't know if any of the boys team that win state cup at U13 even stay together for more than a year or so. The only exception might be the Bangu U16 Boys, but I don't know if they won state cup at U13.
Ah, I’ve digressed into meaningless blather again…
Parents should ask themselves a few questions at the end of every season:
1. Is my child having fun?
2. Does my child want to stay with his/her existing team?
3. Is my child challenged and developing at a reasonable pace?
4. Are the coach, parents and team mates of my child well behaved enough to commit to another year?
Four “yes” answers? stay put. Any “no” answers? should be dealt with.
Hmm, I’m still off topic, time to go…
Not sure if any new sideline rules will help with some people..They are just prone to yelling at their kids. Its when they start on the other Players that's where we really should draw the line. Maybe the parents on a team need to step up to some of those disruptive parents and have some sort of team rule.Even when they are after their own child the other teammates are distracted and at the upper levels that can be crucial. Separation of team from parents needs to be a must.
Anonymous 5:41 I wish we could all ask those questions of our kids each year and get honest answers. However as they get older and better the players need to decide if they want to put up with some of these things or if they want the training and exposure. Balancing gets harder.
The U16 Bangu team did not win state at U13. That would have been the U13 Kickers. Who are now C1. Yep, I totally agree U13 you can tell the same about a team at that age as you can at U5.
You know as a manager, I did one time this year try and control a parent, and got my head chewed off. Not only don't I get paid enough money to step up to the plate for that kind of abuse again. But I'm just not interested in trying to keep parents from sounding like idoits.
Yeah I hear ya!! How can we expect players to be respectful when they have parents that aren't ..
anon 9:58,
Very funny - nice to see paranoia added to the list (long list) of wacky characteristics we can attribute to bangu parents.
The idea, and adoring responses by minions of the great one, is not a good one. As a couple of the responders above have pointed out, the officials will get pasted from both sides and the parents, coaches and kids will, in some cases, become more unruly for having been put within earshot of each other. Having the two teams on one side is the right thing to do for the players, the coaches, the officials and the game - period. Poorly behaved parents are not the coaches' problem - they are all of our problem and trying to have coaches police them by putting them around the team bench will not help the situation.
"evil bangu" or evil bangu? I like the second one. Maybe it's not paranoia after all.
lolol...yeah because evil bangu is the only club with loud mouthed parents...right?
goo shoe,
while many in my son's club chuckle at what the DOC did to the Bangu Girls team the DOC placed in C3 I find it almost sinister.
At best this was an abuse of power by the DOC especially when viewed under the light that MYSA VP of Leagues kid's team was awarded a C1 slot.
If I was a Bangu parent I would be paranoid too. Any everyone else should have the same concern.
If they are capable of picking on one club in this autocratic fashion they can pick on your club in this manner too.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
I do and have worked with many organizations in youth sports. The way MYSA is, at all too many times, operated, is just what winger suggested - sinister.
While it is unfair to paint all MYSA execs and officials with this same brush, it is even more foolhardy to think that 100% integrity is the blood that runs through the veins of our state organization. It is a shame that the dishonesty of some casts a pall on the entire association.
minions? wow.
Crypto, I hear you. But I do not think playing background is what earns respect from the parent group. I know this is not exactly what you are getting at, but many, many coaches can earn the respect needed to help enforce better parental behavior. MYSA’s PACT program should be a prereq for any youth coach in the state as it gives helpful advice and ideas to adults about what this game is all about and how to make it a positive experience for the kids.
I also hear your point about the higher level teams/tournaments, though I guess I was thinking of this more at the younger levels where it is important to educate parents early on.
To goo, your point about the officials getting pasted from both sides doesn’t hold much weight. In fact, if set up correctly with coaches and parents on one side of the midfield line, BOTH ARs can work a sideline WITHOUT screaming parents behind them. You think parents/coaches/kids will become more unruly because they have been put within earshot of each other? I don’t agree with that either. My girls are better behaved when their parents are around, no doubt about that. Right or wrong, I know that I more consciously monitor my communication when around the parent group as well. I would throw out there that parents would in turn more closely monitor their own comments when in earshot of their kids and a coach who frowns upon negative comments/behavior. And poorly behaved parents ARE a coach’s problem in the soccer game environment. The coach has a responsibility to make sure the young players have a positive playing experience with the sport and when in the soccer environment the coach should have sway over almost everything. It’s not easy to police the parents, but having them on opposite sides of the field makes it nearly impossible at a time when policing is most needed.
The way things stand today, a coach can only continue to reiterate to the parents the importance of positive behavior and parents need to police themselves and each other. This past weekend at the AAG tournament in Blaine, one of our team parents came over at halftime to refill her daughter’s water jug. The parent was wearing a bright neon yellow lanyard with a baby’s pacifier taped to the end around her neck. When she saw me eyeing it questioningly, she explained that she was overheard making a negative comment about her kid on the field and was awarded the honorific. If she hears another parent make a negative remark, she will walk over and pass the prestigious award on to them. I saw it passed at least twice in the second half. Pure genius.
MA...don't sweat it we'll be your minions anytime :)
I agree about the referee situation with Mark - this change would force the referee crew to do a better job working as a unit and communicating like they should be in the first place.
Opposite sides would require the referee and AR's to communicate better, something about 85% of the crews do not do now. So if a little bit more of a difficult situation requires them to work in the manner they should then let's try it.
And while I am on the subject of referees- I have never been a A. R. fan and we will never be friends. We have had our major differences but I do want to extend a note of thanks for the much improved referee training and insights on the web site and newsletters that have taken place under his direction. It is vastly improved and deserves a note of recognition. This is a step forward for MN soccer.......and that compliment is not intended as an insult to the Bazakos who I hold near and dear to my heart.
According to the guidelines, Mark is correct that a referee is suppose to require the coach to handle the unruly bangumoms ......sorry I mean parents. I hate when I have to shout across the field, "Hey Mark's dad, shut the F-up or I will have the boys send a driven ball your way!". It would be much easier for me to pull the duct tape out of my coaching bag (wink) and ask the player if they want me to use it or if they would prefer the honors. Most players jump at the chance.
Of course this is only an opinion of mine and does not constitute any form of intelligence
most kids are embarassed by their parents on a daily basis...that's a given.
it gets worse when the parents feel 'entitled' (by paying hundreds/thousands of dollars) to yell/coach soccer through absorbtion of knowledge by osmosis and yearly funds draining.
the yelling at kid refs should not be tolerated at any level.
the griping at adult refs should be limited to moans.
the coach should sit everyone down at the beginning of the season and set the ground rules...hush up and cheer the TEAM on...don't single out your kid and leave the refs alone.
i tell my parents, when you come to every practice and every game i'll be glad to discuss YOUR kid and team play.
until then, any discussions will only take place at your country club, in a golf cart, with a cuban in my hand.
oh I think your on to something!
ema - a bit elitist aren't we? I will not condone any out of control parent, however a coach should discuss any concerns with parents reguarding their child or the team. Attending every practice and game is an idiotic statement. Parents pay hundreds or thousands of dollars in fees, including the coaches, and countless hours/miles driving kids to events. I think a little respect for parents is due on these blogs as the vast majority are sane. I hear no ripping of coaches who regularly demean kids on the field during games as a way to "motivate". Why are we not discussing these coaches?
Perspective, one word on why individual coaches with their own issues (and they exist) aren't discussed by name.....
lawsuits
There is one ref that stands out in my mind that handles the parents well. He always has a smile when he makes calls and cracks jokes with the parents. And he has a gift for remembering players and their names. A class act.
anon 8:49
I was not intending that we "out" any coaches, just a comment about how this blog and others like to roast parents. I for one as a parent/coach/ref try to remember that most folks are resonable when they want to discuss things or when their emotions get the better of them. Look around, it happens to everyone in one form or another. As a percentage coaches are far worse then parent IMO.
actually it's 'ems'...not ema...sorry about that.
elitist? well if you label trying to hold all involved in the sport to a high standard as elitist, yes, i'll take it.
in my years of coaching (many different sports), paying the fees (for 2 kids) and general observations of society, i've found there are few parents that have an objective view of their kid and what it takes to succeed as a team.
bully coaches are also shameful. truthful ones are not.
I think I am gonna be sick...EMS saying we should hold "all involved in the sport to a high standard"...what a joke. He is a member/support of a club who, without exception, has the most shameful record for all that is evil in youth sports!
and which club would that be?
ems - I didn't know you had any connection or affliation with KKK FC of Mississppi or Nazi United of Milwaukee?
i'm somewhat stunned...i thought my street cred was solid...linc.
name the show.
Mod Squad? just going off the linc
OMG are we no longer the evil empire......I'm hurt, I just got my honey buns to war over my ears...
no, it's ok bangumom...you still are.
i have no idea who i'm supposed to be aligned with according to the anon post...maybe he/she thinks i'm a democrat?
you are correct sir! pete, julie & linc. solid.
lucky guess! I never watched the show ( I was a Streets of San Francisco fan) but had a subscription to MAD magazine and remember their satire .......I'm sorry but the missing linc.
no, the new evil empire is Tonka, but how funny is this? I have a son playing for Tonka.
I too am your jerk father Luke. I am evil and you have a couple fathers - good luck with those DNA tests and then let's not even talk about who has legal right to the tax deduction
I always thought that was great look bangumom ( and great reference) but of course a Norwegians would eh? Could you carry a spear and sing opera too? I never thought the "thing"between you and Jabba would work.
ems and I are going to have a vendor booth at the USA Cup - it will be callled "I'm ok and we're pompous asses and your a bangu parent -good luck with that!" We will be selling Preparation H... I'm ordering more inventory
Tomass, at least you are honest with yourself. I'll give you that. Is your booth going to be near the exhibition hall or across the street in the H-M area? Maybe over by the ice arena would be best since you cover that sport as well. I will visit for sure!
tomass, make sure you hand out instructions with your product...you know how they immediately begin rubbing it into their hair.
bangumom....are you interested in beers with tomass and i? we need a reality check when we tip a few...
would that be "beer" or "bier" as in Brau Haus.....
i'll do either...as long as it's dark and not too cold.
nice job to the little girls from bangu on winning the region II. hopefully they'll get many more...
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