This might be the last year for SSM and MTA/Bangu to field teams U16 and U18. Can MTA repeat with 7 Championships? Brackets and schedules can be found here.
I would recommend moving the comments to USSF Development Academy thread. As you may know, this may be the last year SSM has teams participating in State Cup. I don't know if they will have both a USSF Academy team and a separate club team that participates in USYSA events. Going forward (Fall 2010) both MTA and SSM teams that play in the USSF academy will not be eligible for MN State Cup. I suspect that MTA will have both USSF DA and regular USYSA teams at U16 and U18.
So both U17 play-in games start at 6:00 p.m. Saturday night. Around about 8:00 p.m., both games are knotted in a draw at full-time. Rules require two 15 minute extra time periods, followed by shoot-out if needed. BUT NOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM MR MORIARTY, DON'T WE? Not enought light left to play another 1/2 hour. "Hmmmmm. Do LWB fields have lights? No, darn it." So why did these knock-out games start at 6:00 p.m., Tournament Director? "Hmmmm, guess we didn't think soccer matches might be tied after 90 minutes. Very unusual for that to happen in my long experience with the national championships." So what's the next step Major Tournament Director? "Both games have to be replayed in full, scheduled for Thursday night at 5:45." That's just great! Thank you MYSA for your experience and foresight!!
Nope, just have one answer -- don't start knock-out games at a time when you don't have enough light to finish games. This should clearly have been anticipated. But will not hold my breathe waiting for an apology to issue from the Tournament Director.
And may take you upon on running for MYSA board. They clearly need some new faces in that crowd.
I also hope there is no injury time. We need to have a site that has lights that MYSA will pick use. There are some out there yet they do not sumbit to host this event, due to other obligations for thier club/town.
The anger about the U17 reschedules, and why it is directed at Mr. Moriarty is this: He is very clear that this is a special tournament, that it's "the first step on the road to the national championship" (debatable of course, since the establishment of DA's) and all that justifies his iron fist approach to running the show. E.g., don't dare ask why U17 games are scheduled at 6 p.m. on Saturday nights during prom season ("make your choice, soccer or prom"), or for that matter, at 8:00 a.m. on Sunday mornings during prom season. Scheduling decisions are easy (put U17 games at mid-days) that would recognize that this is a unique time for these kids and they shouldn't have to choose. So it is appropriate to hold TM to a high standard -- he requires it from all others.
From the Feb 10, 2010 MYSA Board Minutes (page 3):
Ericson moved, Jarnstrom seconded, to approve the amount of $6,000 for Tom Moriarty’s State Cup expenses for 2010. The motion passed. Abstain: Moriarty.
So we're paying for Tom Moriarity to fly back and forth for State Cup and meetings? And most likely paying for hotels, meals and car rental. This needs to stop.
I don't have a big issue with the MN tournament director going to the RII tournament as I'm sure there are meetings, functions, etc... that he should attend, nor do I think that should come out of his pocket, but $6,000? That must be the annual expense budget as a one week trip to OH couldn't cost more than $1,500 (airfare, 5+ nights of hotel, car rental/gas, food).
7:10 - do you think he shouldn't go at all or pay for this out of his own pocket? If so, then tell that to every state government department head (at every level) who travels to out of state meetings, conventions, etc... on taxpayer money.
The minutes would seem to imply that this is for Moriarity to fulfill State Cup responsibilities here (not Regionals). MYSA always sends a number of folks to regionals each year to begin with, so that amount should be in their annual budget at the outset. This appears to be above and beyond that.
I'm not a Moriarty or MYSA fan but I can speculate on the expense. Moriarty lives in CA now. I'm guessing the expenses are to get back and forth during the MN State Cup tournament. Which begs the question, why have an out of state person running state cup?
Yes, just leave a message on an MYSA voicemail, or send an email. Then buy a calendar and tear off the days until you hear back. Then keep track of the additional days until you get a straight answer to your question. Let us know.
I wonder if there is anything within the by-laws which explains where MYSA paid employees must reside? If there is a rule regarding where players can live, I would think that there should be something regulating this? Maybe not though?
I agree that $6000 is ridiculous for "State Cup expenses" for an employee who chooses to live somewhere other than the State where his duties must be fulfilled? This should be on his own dime, no question.
Let's quit our whining and ask how come the tournament is so expensive. application fee $600. vol. bond $150. So for approx. 165 teams, state cup brings in $95K. MYSA spends $6000, ref fees, field rental, security, etc. can't be $89K. What does MYSA do with the profits. that is when we need an inquiry.
Don't we get reports of lawsuits from MYSA. We all know that it costs to file and represent these. Also the staff has increased at the office. This should explain where some of the money is going.
Whoever corrected me needs to chill.. Why do you come on here? Most of you guys are just trying to pick fights, I am just trying to see how some of the teams a doing.
I beleive each age group that wins the State Cup gets a stipend to help cover some of the cost of going to Regionals. The majority of the cost for State Cup is I'm sure referees and fields. I bet the referee cost per game is $100. I didn't count them up but it looks like on the schedule they have 568 games which would mean the referee cost is $56,800. MYSA does pay for the fields. So, I'm not sure they make anything on the State Cup.
It so simple. When would you like the U17 boys to play. How about the U16, U17 and U18 girls? How about the U16 & U18 boys? That 68 teams that need to be accomidated for prom and probably 500 different schools.
FYI I remember a few years back the U17 girls were schedule on a Saturday afternoon, and parents complained because their daughter needed that time to get ready for prom. We hear this gripe every year, along with the one about not scheduling games during track meets.
Sit down with a piece a paper, and this years brackets and create your schedule for the tournament. Groups generally all play at the same time, so as not to give one team more rest than another. There are six fields I beleive, all games are played on Friday, Saturday and Sundays. No, lights remember. Each team only plays one game a day. Have fun.
13 b slp 14 b wbl 15 b wdb 16 b ggm 17 b rch 18 b edp 19 b mus
13 g nsc 14 c bhk 15 g bvl 16 g lwb 17 g stc 18 g psa 19 g blm
memorial day is state cup weekend sat sun mon ,semi tues ,final wed play in previous sunday at 6 just like regionals every year for 5 years these eg clubs/sites can plan right now they know the dates and they have fields ready
More than half of the teams (13s, 14s, 15s, 16s) are not effected by ACTs, SATs, or Proms. Have them play the 6pm Saturday games. And maybe the 8am Sunday games. Also, there are Wednesday games out there.
well, when there are U15B at 8 am, and U15G at 10 am, there are two times that can be swapped for the U17B and G games played at 4pm and 6pm on the same day.
Also, ask the local college coaches how excited they are that ALL games at a U17 or U16 age group are being played at the same time. how much can they watch of a team, if there are six games going on at the same time?
So far, there is a very short list of out of town coaches who will attend the event, and it is easy to see why. Not only that, but TM has made it so the local coaches will have a very hard time seeing a significant amount of many of the teams and players at this event in the U16 and U17 ages.
And we (MYSA members) are paying Moriarty's expenses at the rate of $6k for his expertise? c'mon
4/5/10 11:56 AM I agree with your first point, these ages could be moved, but again, this is a big soccer opportunity, the college coaches you are so upset about want comitted players not daters.
You assert that "local" college coaches are not excited that age group games are at the same times. Have you been to a major tournament, or MRL? Of course they are at the same times. Coaches expect this and deal with it. By the way, they come to see kids who have expressed and interest in their school, and if someone really stands out they may contact that kid too. Since they are "local", if they are interested in your kid, they'll have plenty of other opportunities to watch them.
The short list of out of town coaches is not due to TM or scheduling times, it is due to level of play compared to other states and college coaches are training and playing spring ball. Ignorance is no excuse. If your kid really wants to play college soccer, investigate college soccer, at least for the sake of your child.
Is your child registered in the Clearinghouse? If not, they won't even be considered.
No one has verified what the 6K budget approval is for. Could it be all the expenses for State Cup, is it just for TM. You don't know. SOME ADVICE FOR ALL OF YOU, read the MYSA website, specifically the recent lawsuit for slandering MYSA people on-line. Do you have facts? Or do you have a bunch of extra money you want to give to TM? You better have one or the other, you are not as anonymous as you would like.
Hey MYSA, start complying with your own rules regarding posting minutes. Your bylwas state that "All Standing, Elected and Special Committees must within two weeks of any meeting post on the MYSA website written minutes of that meeting." Does the budget commitee ever have a meeting?
Hey 5/5/10 9:40 AM, again, you are clearly making assumptions. "Hardly libelous, given the skimpy report in the minutes. Yes, it is just for TM unless MYSA screwed up the minutes too".
By the way, your facts are wrong too. Meeting 2/13 not 2/10.
If you have read the reports, you know they are vindictive, just trying to warn.
Um, I think that there is probably a difference between asking questions about a budget line item and sending emails stating that so-and-so is sleeping with so-and-so or that so-and so is a child molester.
You cannot be sued for asking questions regarding the minutes of a meeting- and demanding that things be made public which you have a right to. Just saying.
I'm a little worried about the fields at LWB tonight-don't want to see any injuries and don't want the fields destroyed either. Wonder what the chances are of postponing games.
ODP boys may beat North Dakota this year. it's amazing how poorly they assess talent. has a natural defender ever made a MN ODP team? good luck boys. hope you consider your money well spent.
7:47 your ignorant, there will always be players that will be missed by the academies. Before the academy program, ODP missed them. They are out there and if the right person sees them they will get grabbed by a college coach or other knowledgable soccer person.
13/14 is all mta, as they've gathered all the good players at those ages. some dynasties should evolve out of these groups. i'd be hard pressed to look outside mta if i had a high-potential u12.
15 will be mta/scv (again). there are no superstars in this age group. usually by 15 the superstars are starting to stand out. not here.
16 saw a huge upset when psa took shattuck out of the tournament, but psa is bi-polar (how do you lose to edina and beat shattuck?)scv and mta blue have history and should have a good semifinal, but mta blue should win out, though it was a surprise they lost to mta white in pool play.
17 has always been about shattuck and mta blue. blue has struggled the past two state cups, but this may be their year. shattuck/blue blue will be the best championship game in the tournament if it happens.
18 is the opposite of 17, as the best players are spread out. blackhawks look like they've made the most improvements from last year to now, but shattuck is tough. too bad valley isn't here to defend.
Just looked in, Wow. I'm kind of surprised. SSM has two of the five teams they entered into the State Cup not even make it thru pool play. That pretty bad.
4:17 - I'm not sure how much weight to put on the MRL results for a number of reasons. The first is that MTA Blue is in a different first division than the other three. Blackhawks (4-2) and PSA (3-1) are in the same first division as MTA Blue and they did not make it out of their respective pools. It's comparing apples to oranges.
Regarding your other point, if MTA Blue hadn't been relegated from the MRL premier division last year (0-5-2) and won it this year, we could have sent two teams.
12/5/10 5:00 PM If you're not just trying to stir things up. What age, what are you looking for-training, successes, contacts for future college?? Elite, premiere, C1, C2?? What part of the Twin Cities?
At U15 the semi finals are mta vs. blackhawks, and nssa vs. st croix . look for mta to dominate their game and nssa to squeak it out. any thoughts on this age group?
I agree, looking up statistics from last year at u15, the blackhawks were terrible and nssa beat st croix 3-0 and lost to mta 3-2. Finals will be nssa vs. mta. Agreed.
Wow! There are a ton of MTA teams already through to the semi-finals. They have 2 teams through in several age groups when looking at boys and girls teams.
MTA's boys program has finally started to match the girls. US Dev Academy will be a huge selling point, as long as MTA ditches whoever is currently in charge of their marketing and finds someone with even a hint of experience. The 13s and 14s are products of the Bangu Academy program and clearly the choice for interested talent looking for a non-CC home. The west will always be the west - average. The big issue will be what MTA can do in the north and south to mimic what is happening in the east at the younger age groups.
MTA has teams in State Cup semifinals at ages U13, U14, U15 and U16 in both boys and girls brackets. In several of these groups they have 2 teams in the semis. They also have U17 boys in semifinal. U19 boys are unopposed winners and U19 girls will most likely win again. Their younger teams have really improved the past 4-5 years. This club is now actually developing players and not just convincing strong players to join their club.
11:57, Yes. Do you folks realize that Michael Bradley who plays on the US Men's National team is coached on the US Men's National team by his father, Bob Bradley? This gossip about dads coaching their kids is just silly. Grow up.
Soccer Fanhouse: Bradley, who's still just 22 years old, has all the talent to command the center of the U.S. midfield for the next couple World Cup cycles, witness his two goals against Mexico back in February. When he's on the field the U.S. is clearly a more complete and dangerous team. Bradley has all the physical tools to succeed, if he can hone the mental aspects there's no ceiling to his upside.
Therein lies the rub, part of what makes Bradley such a force for the U.S. midfield is his strong, physical nature. By the same token, all it takes is a fraction of a second to turn a good, hard challenge into a bookable offense. And in a tournament setting like a World Cup, losing a player to a red card can cripple a team.
The fact that his father is the coach only serves to compound or muddle the issue depending upon how you choose to look at it.
See BQ's article today on insidemnsoccer.com -- Cody Cropper gets a shutout for USA U20s against Senegal. Amidst all the accusations about MTA being a "non-development club", Cody -- who played for Bangu's (now) U17s and then MTA for four years -- excels at the national level. Question -- would he have developed into a national team player if he remained trapped in a CC like Chan-Chaska? CC United's president is waging a war against the "non-development clubs" and is threatening NSC and Coerver unless they promise no contact with MTA. Would Cody have developed into a viable national team player if he didn't join a club that looked for regional, rather than local and statewide competition? MTA has lots of warts, but at least it is trying to develop strong MN players into strong regional, and in at least one case, national, players.
Looking at Cody's credentials (i.e., father's connections), I think he'd have succeeded just about anywhere...well, maybe not a club like CC United because they'd want him to play equally at every position (and receive a nice participation ribbon at the end of the year, because everyone is a winner).
Congrats to Cody. I'm glad my boy doesn't have to see him during high school season anymore.
Agree 9:46 -- and that is the point. We can all pick apart MTA -- too expensive, arrogant, the MA scandal, the regional academies that play C1 level -- but it is moving in the right direction with its elite teams. To label it as a "non-development club" is ridiculous.
9:46 - Just a clarification. When Cody and his mother first moved to MN she joined the Wings club (U13). When that Wings team failed to make premier and resulting fallout, he moved to Bangu (U14).
I don't like MTA's shenanigans and I think many on their staff are arrogant bleepholes, but if I were a young player in MN, I would for sure try to play for MTA. And CC United would be nowhere on my radar.
Would you rather train with Manchester United or Hull City?
11:22 Thank you for the correction on Cody's history. So one year at Wings and 3 years at Bangu/MTA. Of course the CC United president has labeled Wings a "non-development club" as well. And of course this always raises the question as to where a successful player's "development" comes from. Cody clearly has soccer in the blood, and he got to where he is today due to his hard work. Another factor in my mind is playing at a high level of competition. That's what MTA is trying to do. It's absurd to call it a "non-development club" just because relatively strong MN players (all of whom are still very underdeveloped based on national standards) seek out that club for their team.
When does a player "stop developing"? We always hear how pro athletes take a few years to develop at that level because they are still "raw" even after 4 years of college or several years in the minor leagues. Do youth soccer players stop developing at U10? U12? U14? In my opinion soccer players develop well into their 30's. To say a club isn't developing players because they join the club when they're 13 or 14 years old is silly.
In Minnesota, male players typically do stop developing at about U12. That is why:
- We have so few players playing at high levels - So many players quit before U18 - Our general level of play is putrid (see high school soccer)
Science shows that male soccer players are supposed to peak at age 27 on average. There are always outliers: Messi at 22 and Giggs at 54.
All clubs in MN try to develop players. Some try to develop college players (MTA) and some try to develop co-ed rec league participation ribbon recipients (ChanChas).
I think MTA and CC clubs need to understand their functions and that one cannot exist without the other.
CC clubs focus should be on developing the love of the game and friendships. Every kid on the field should be playing and having a lot of fun. They can even limit themselves to local participation in an effort to develop their HS teams and local communities. This is where kids and families begin! Unfortunately, CC coaches/parents at about 11, 12 and 13 are looking to build super teams and become upset when their best players leave. The coach/parent often is not looking at what best for the player but what best for the team.
MTA should understand and work with the community programs as that is were the love of the game is started. Five years olds do not want to become Pele, they want to have fun and play with their friends. I would even go so far as to say very, very few 11 and 12 years olds are that serious about soccer yet. I would agree that MTA coaches for the most part are arrogant. Which is too bad, as I feel they only are hurting the program in the long run?
IMHO parents can coach their kids but they should not be paid for it if fees are being collected for coaching fees. In other words, Bradley does not collect $3K from his son to pay for his salary. If you coaching you son and your Bradley, Pele or Lagos great! You just should not be getting paid to do it. If MTA has a paid coach coaching his/her child, they are are just asking for complaints and trouble.
I think a better, clearer desciption of parent coaching needs to be defined. Most folks think of parent coaching as just some guy like you or me trying to coach a team that has our kid on. A parent with decades of coaching experience and a "C" level license coaching a team with his kid on it IMO falls under a different category.
I am an MTA parent with a son on a "Dad" coached team. My son's coach is paid, GLADLY, by the parents of the team. This man has played at high levels of international competition, is a great trainer and well worth the couple bucks per hour he actually makes. Don't fool yourselves, you would pay much more for daycare, a movie or even cable/satellite to watch and teach your child.
What are you doing while these dads are keeping you kid away from poor influences and the couch? Probably something for yourself, so you should probably be paying even more than you do.
Whoever the person is that dislikes the "Dad" coach concept needs to move on. If you don't like the situation- change, don't complain, find something better for your child. There are many good trainers available, get off your arse and find one.
1:23, no need for anyone but you to move on, I like what my son is getting.
You obviously don't like what you are getting, that doesn't mean others don't or couldn't. It's YOUR problem, not someone else's. Be an adult and solve your own issue and quit blaming it or projecting it on others.
Nice exclamation point at the end too, shows your sanity level.
So what's the big issue and how does it have anything to do with the coach being a dad?
And, please if it is playing time for your little landon, please don't respond. We all know the responses you'll get if you do.
I agree with 12:49, I was a dad coach at younger ages, because no one else would do it. Some parents resented paying me for my time. I made almost $2 per hour to make sure their precious kid (who they barely slowed down to let out of the car) was safe, got exercise, had some fun, and learned a few things about the beatiful game. So if it is about pay, you need to think it through. These guys are sacrificing a lot, and I doubt anyone of them thinks they are perfect. You would pay significantly more for a baby sitter to watch cable at your house, drink your pop, and eat your snacks...
At U13 Blue, coach can't separate from dad, which leads to trouble and unfairness. 12:49/1:42 is likely talking about U16 Blue, where coach separates himself nicely from dad. Bottom line, if your kid truly is the star, you shouldn't coach him, and if he isn't the star, don't treat him like he is.
To the MTA/CC question, if MTA wants to be elite, they should stop trying to be elite AND big, i.e., drop the white, green, and grey teams (did I miss a color)? You can't really be elite and compete in MYSA's standard leagues without everyone hating you. People don't like SSM, but they don't hate them because SSM caters to the very best (yes, few are from MN, but that's another story).
Finally, if MTA's leaders could preach a little humility to their coaches and trainers, that would go a long way. We all know your teams are loaded...stop bragging about it.
It's State Cup, people, with big weekend games. (1) If you had to pick one semifinal to watch on Saturday, which would it be? (2) What's your dream matchup for Sunday's final?
Personally, I want to see St. Croix versus MTA Blue (U16) on Saturday. I have two dream finals: MTA Blue versus Shattuck (U17) and Blackhawks versus Shattuck (U18).
Why should MTA care if anyone hates them? They're playing by the same rules all other clubs play by. People hate the Yankees in baseball because they win. Thats the same reason people hate MTA. Move on with your life...this stuff really doesn't matter. Worry about your own kid and not kids on other teams.
I don't have kids. I worry about kids. I want the USA to win a World Cup and I want Minnesotans on the team. The philosophies of the majority in MN, as in those who hate everything about "elite clubs," seems to make US Soccer move backwards from this goal.
When you get past all the crud, I see there to be 2 primary reasons to be involved in youth soccer. 1. To educate our youth. 2. To help USA win a World Cup.
I don't believe in educating youth through sports. Sports teach too many negative lessons (see MTA State Cup scandal, see steroids, see ESPN headlines). Therefore, I care most about #2 while so many in MN are worried about participation medals, parent coaches and boycotting the closest thing we have to a pro team.
By your response I would say you’re probably pretty intelligent however I don't think you’re able to see the larger issues. If you have a paid parent as a coach should other parents expect to be paid for their expertise? Does the parent manager who is an administrative assistant get paid? Does the parent who is a travel agent get paid to arrange travel plans? Does the medical professional parent get paid for looking at or advising coaches/parent and player on how to treat injuries? All of these people put in countless hours.
If you’re only making $2 hour isn't spending quality time with your kid worth the $2 hour?
As far as barely slowing down to let them out of the car....Do you want the parents watching practices? Some coaches complain loudly that the parents watch practices, they are usually describing the parents that do as being over involved. I think at the beginning of the year if you were to say, I expect parents to attend practices, the parents would probably be there. Most coaches I know don’t want the parents there as they consider them a distraction.
20/5/10 2:01 PM sounds like you don't like decisions made by the coach, that doesn't make them wrong or unfair, a little more specifics might add an ounce of credibility.
Question, if the coach's son is a star, and it is due to his coaching, why should he bow out? His son should be coached by whom? Someone less qualified??
Point in case, Teal Bunbury was coached extensively by his DAD. Have you seen this kid play? Was it unfair that his DAD helped him? Have you met this kid, I would be proud to have been his coach, his teacher, let alone his dad who was all of these. Your point is woefully flawed.
Do you know someone better than the u13's dad/coach that is qualified and WILLING to coach u13's? Then have your son tryout for his team next season. You never know, it may be the best choice you make, and your son may develop into a star and then you can stop bashing coaches.
By the way, do you think your kid is the Star? Why is it you think he should be treated better? Doesn't every dad, regardless of them being a coach or not have this same perception??
The larger issue is not other parents who are helping. It is the parents who are not helping, and complaining that paying an adult to teach their child soccer and life lessons is too much when in reality it probably doesn't cover gas and cheap fast food dinner once a week.
I don't hear any DADcoach complaining about the quality time with their boys isn't worth it. Another argumentative suggestion.
If parents watched practices and kept their mouths shut, they might not yell crazy instructions to their boys during games. Yes you know you have heard and seen it, the exact opposite of the team strategy. They may also find out why little landon is not getting tons of playing time or starting by watching what they do at training. Better yet, they could see what their child needs help with and work on it with them at home...
I think you may be right, most coaches don’t want the parents there as they consider them a distraction- because they are. Parents think they have a veto power over tactics, training schedules, everything. It just doesn't work, unless they act like adults.
My point is still this, if you don't agree with the coach, quit complaining and find someone else. Don't ruin it for everyone, fix it for your child.
whoa, 2:56. log off your e*trade account, I think the market's got you stressed.
My kid hasn't been coached by a dad since he was U9. He is happy and plays plenty, though he is not a star. This isn't about him (or me). I opine as an observer of many club teams, not as someone who's kid was spurned by a dad-coach.
Odd, my point was to praise Bunbury, as he appears to be one who does it right. Niemann too.
My point, which I'll re-word due to your overly-defensive response to it, is that all too often, in intense, competitive environments (I'd say that fits MTA), the dad-coach who shows preference to his kid will raise the ire of the intense, competitive parents (I'd say MTA tends to attract them) of kids who don't play as much. From what I've heard, it sounds like both forces are in play with the MTA 13s.
I'm not talking about whether there's quality training and development. I'm saying (in an intense competitive, environment)the dad-coach who plays his kid 100% will be PERCEIVED as showing preference, and that will undoubtedly be PERCEIVED as a slight by someone else. If that PERCEPTION is there, it will eventually ruin the team. I've seen entire age groups ruined by dad-coaches.
I respect those dad-coaches who won't coach their sons...typically because they're not good enough to play on the team, but sometimes because they are.
And I know several D- and C-licensed coaches who would take a U13 team...maybe not at MTA, though.
Mister Soccer, It's unfortunate you refer to Mark Abboud's decision at last years State Cup as the "MTA scandal". That was completely Abboud's decision and was done without others in the club being aware of what he would do. It is a Mark Abboud scandal. What did the MTA club do to Abboud after that occurred? Is he still a director in that club? Do you think they condoned that decision?
The larger issue is the dad getting PAID to coach his son. The other parents are assisting and not getting PAID, but are lending their expertise. You want to coach your son's team. Then coach it. Just don't get PAID. You will take a lot of wind out of parents sails if your not getting paid.
I do think you should take a long look at the dynamics of this year U18 age group. Lots and lots of parent coaches. Lots and lots of problems. Bunberry was probably the exception not the rule. I thought Bunberry did not get paid to coach his son's team, I could have that wrong, but I remember hearing that and being impressed.
8:01 - been following this discussion and am a bit confused. When you state "The other parents are assisting and not getting PAID, but are lending their expertise" what exactly do you mean? Is one dad the actual coach and some of the other parents assist during practices and during the games? Just curious.
8:01 what are the problems with this years u-18 group, lots an lots of good teams, I don't really see that as a problem, the best team in that group is coached by two dads who don't get paid, dads can coach teams at high levels just fine if they are good coaches and know what they are doing, if hey are not good coaches then it really doesn't matter they will not succeed
MY should step down as head coach of the MTA U13 team. RZ has shown no ability (some might even say no desire) to be fair or unbaised in addressing concerns and complaints, possibly due to the fact that MY is also on the executive board. MY should still be the assistant coach, and I'm certain that there are other strong coaches that would love to be head coach that team.
I would bet the vast, vast majority of comments regarding the U13 MTA boys team are originating from folks that have no connection to that team and are just trying to stir it up.
The problems always exist on any team for players who don't get as much play time. Usually the 13th through 18th spots on the roster. Life is good for the majority of players.
Vendettas? Hardly. Parents have already gone to the club and were told to get lost in so many words.
Predictions: MTA wins a clear majority of the games and MTA-Bangu diehards tout their accomplishments on this thread, then make excuses during regionals and then try to justify why the MTA model is a juggernaut.
My son plays for (insert high school, college, or professional team name here).
I don't like the decisions the coach has made to date. The school/organization should fire him because I don't like him. And if they don't they're all arrogant jerks.
Get real! You are one opinion and probably don't understand the game anyway.
I've been a part of MYSA for 23 years. I have never belonged to anything Bangu/MTA and I most likely never will. There are a lot of people within Bangu/MTA that I don't care for and there are countless things Bangu/MTA has done that make me want to puke.
With that said, despite its many flaws, the MTA model is the best model MN has ever had for development and if I were a young player, I would certainly try to play for MTA before any other club.
Although I don't root for MTA, I do want to see them do well because that will only help us reach the goals I outlined above.
Looks like the current U13's age group has the make-up to morph into the current U18 age group with all the parental involvement. The one big difference is with the emergence of SSM/MTA and the USSF DAP's, there is a good chance that the best players will all migrate (or kind of be forced) to play there. The MTA teams that are younger than the Developmental Academy teams will start to see an influx of players so they are already "part of the process" and have some recognition prior to the teams being formed.
Make no mistake about it. MTA getting into the USSF Development Academy has separated them by miles from the other true soccer clubs in Minnesota. I don't consider SSM a true soccer club. SSM is an anomoly due to their school status and will only be a real option for few Minnesota kids as we've seen for the past few years. The soccer landscape in Minnesota has been changed forever. And thats a good thing!
What do you expect whenyou have a Tournament Director (Moriarity) that is more concerned about the color of the compression shorts than the field conditions. Good luck to the St. Croix folks who will be stuck with the tab and the work of trying to fix their fields.
6:26 - just can't let it (or him) go can you? BTW, that same uniform rule is enforced at the RII championships as well. Also, regarding the fields, no one made LWB bid on hosting the tournament - so tough to have any sympathy for those involved.
Well the evil empire has proven their dominance at 13 to 15. Let's see how they do on the regional playfield they were built to play on. I hope they succeed.
Mister Soccer, its too bad that you have such bad feelings about MTA. They were able to be successful in spite of MYSA and the large CCs efforts to stifle player opportunities and player development by creating petty and ridiculous rules. As a club Bangu/MTA persevered through hard work, dedication and a love for the sport. Every club and organization have people who make mistakes and bad decisions. I have been around youth soccer in 3 states over 20 years and can say the Bangu/MTA has one of the fewest numbers bad apples. The large CCs in MN have accumulated a much larger number of bad apples. We are all entitled to our opinions, but I think your expression of hate was probably already known by the soccer community at large. Why don't you take this opportunity to start working for what is best for youth players, and not petty b.s.
12:01 - I didn't see any petty B.S. in his comments. I saw his biased personal viewpoint circumvented by a nice factual soccer statement about where one should go if they wanted to play with the best.
I do agree that MTA has had to overcome a lot to reach the level they have achieved today. Some done correctly, some not so much.
I do admire the MTA board for staying out of coaching decisions based on parental wants and desires. It is soccer directed rather than parental directed. I do not see that in any CC any more
Today's Boys Finals: U13 MTA over Lakeville 4-0 U14 MTA over Edina 5-0 U15 MTA over NSAA 5-0
U19 MTA is Champion (uncontested
Today's Semi-Finals: U16 SCV over MTA 2-1 U16 MTA over PSA 2-2 (PKs) U17 MTA over EDP 3-0 U17 MTA over SSM 0-0 (PKs) U18 BHK over SCV 2-1 U18 SSM over MTA 4-0
Congrats to MTA U17s! In rain postponed semi's played this afternoon, Blue wins over Eden Prairie 6-0 and White beats Shattuck in shootout, after 0-0 score after 120 minutes. A very large crowd on hand, and MTA Blue boys roar, mob the field and dive into the White team dogpile after last save by brilliant MTA White keeper. Teams square off Thursday night for bragging rights, but both are on the way to Regionals due to U17 wildcard.
So we have an all MTA final at U17? That would be interesting if both teams weren't already through to regionals due to wild card at that age. Congrats to both MTA Blue and White teams and good luck at regions.
SSM dreams pinned to one game Wednesday. Should be an interesting game between two good teams - I would expect emotions to be quite high!
I would not rip the SSM U17 too much, 9:37 - that MTA white team has proven itself quite nicely over the past couple of years. SSM was better in many areas of the game, but needed to make a play at some point to earn the trip to OH.
Is the U17 SSM coach the same as their U17 coach from last year, whose team did not get out of group play?
Dominating performances by the MTA U13, U14 and U15 boys in bracket play, semis and finals. I was there to watch my sons SCV U-16 team play MTA in the semi and saw the 2nd half of the younger age matches. Not only did the MTA teams display excellent technical skills and obvious athletic ability but they also played a great style of soccer that was mature beyong their years. It was refreshing to see young teams who have been taught how to play the game rather than just rely on speed or 1 superb player for success. Whatever they are doing in that program is working and bodes well for their future success in the Development Academy. Congrats to those team and coaches.
10:35 I didn't see the games but saw the scores and judging from the scores the younger MTA boys totally dominated the u13, u14 and u15 tournament. They are obviously much better than their opponents in most aspects of the game to win by such great margins. Nothing funny about that IMHO.
At U17, Eden Prairie survives its group consisting of 4 premier teams, but loses to MTA Blue 6-0 in semi-finals. A message about strength of MYSA premier teams? or just a bad day for Eden Prairie? I think MTA is proving that it is miles ahead.
288 comments:
1 – 200 of 288 Newer› Newest»Wow, MN Futbol their was a begining of a semi intelligent conversation on the boys thread you just disabled. Oh well.
I would recommend moving the comments to USSF Development Academy thread. As you may know, this may be the last year SSM has teams participating in State Cup. I don't know if they will have both a USSF Academy team and a separate club team that participates in USYSA events. Going forward (Fall 2010) both MTA and SSM teams that play in the USSF academy will not be eligible for MN State Cup. I suspect that MTA will have both USSF DA and regular USYSA teams at U16 and U18.
I wonder if MTA and SSM will run the table for U13-U19 on the boys side this year, possibly their last in the competition according the USSF DA post?
alright. whose gonna win the play-in games this weekend?
14: Edina/St. Croix, EastSide/Minneapolis United
16: Cottage Grove/Edina
17: Champlin/PSA, Centennial/Three Rivers
18: Prior Lake/Wayzata
14s SCV and MU
15s CTG
16s PSA and CENTENNIAL
17s PRL
14: Edina andMinneapolis United
16: Edina
17: PSA and Three Rivers
18: Wayzata
You can bet the farm on it!
Z
huh?
st. croix u14 is a C2 team. is edina u14 that bad?
wasnt three rivers u17 premiere last year?
14 edina, MU
16 edina
17 psa, three rivers
18 prior lake
i'm not even from edina.
pouring rain. must be state cup season. hope lucy can handle it. anyone seen the fields? how do they look?
They are in bad shape to begin with: this will only make them worse.
THIS IS THE BOYS THREAD
PLEASE PAY ATTETION
lc
AtteNtion, lc (see, I was paying attention).
Fields looked OK. Goal mouths were messy but fields looked good.
19s - MTA
18s - Blackhawks ( THERE GOOD)
17s - MTA ( if they can not choke just once)
16s - MTA
15s - SSM ( BLOW OUT!)
14s - MTA
So both U17 play-in games start at 6:00 p.m. Saturday night. Around about 8:00 p.m., both games are knotted in a draw at full-time. Rules require two 15 minute extra time periods, followed by shoot-out if needed. BUT NOW WE HAVE A PROBLEM MR MORIARTY, DON'T WE? Not enought light left to play another 1/2 hour. "Hmmmmm. Do LWB fields have lights? No, darn it." So why did these knock-out games start at 6:00 p.m., Tournament Director? "Hmmmm, guess we didn't think soccer matches might be tied after 90 minutes. Very unusual for that to happen in my long experience with the national championships." So what's the next step Major Tournament Director? "Both games have to be replayed in full, scheduled for Thursday night at 5:45." That's just great! Thank you MYSA for your experience and foresight!!
why don't you run for a spot on the MYSA board.....?
i completely agree. i nominate 10:24am who has all the answers.
Nope, just have one answer -- don't start knock-out games at a time when you don't have enough light to finish games. This should clearly have been anticipated. But will not hold my breathe waiting for an apology to issue from the Tournament Director.
And may take you upon on running for MYSA board. They clearly need some new faces in that crowd.
10:24
Anyone know who won U18B play in game?
I also hope there is no injury time. We need to have a site that has lights that MYSA will pick use. There are some out there yet they do not sumbit to host this event, due to other obligations for thier club/town.
Would you thiink they could post the scores from yesterday? It's 2010 already.
LWB fields are crap this year, huh?
The anger about the U17 reschedules, and why it is directed at Mr. Moriarty is this: He is very clear that this is a special tournament, that it's "the first step on the road to the national championship" (debatable of course, since the establishment of DA's) and all that justifies his iron fist approach to running the show. E.g., don't dare ask why U17 games are scheduled at 6 p.m. on Saturday nights during prom season ("make your choice, soccer or prom"), or for that matter, at 8:00 a.m. on Sunday mornings during prom season. Scheduling decisions are easy (put U17 games at mid-days) that would recognize that this is a unique time for these kids and they shouldn't have to choose. So it is appropriate to hold TM to a high standard -- he requires it from all others.
Two days later, where are the $%^# scores from Sunday? Do they have COMPUTERS over there?
The scores are up and have been up. Only the U13 and U14 teams played.
Use IE8 instead of Firefox to see the scores.
I use Firefox and I can see the PDF's
BHK have no chance at 18s (btw, its "their good", not "there good".) The club is the champions choke club on the planet.
its actually they're, as in they are good
Its is actually it's, as in it is bad
You should probably have a period at the end of your post, but who's paying attention.
From the Feb 10, 2010 MYSA Board Minutes (page 3):
Ericson moved, Jarnstrom seconded, to approve the amount of $6,000 for Tom Moriarty’s State Cup expenses for 2010. The motion passed. Abstain: Moriarty.
Your membership dollars hard at work.
So we're paying for Tom Moriarity to fly back and forth for State Cup and meetings? And most likely paying for hotels, meals and car rental.
This needs to stop.
I don't have a big issue with the MN tournament director going to the RII tournament as I'm sure there are meetings, functions, etc... that he should attend, nor do I think that should come out of his pocket, but $6,000? That must be the annual expense budget as a one week trip to OH couldn't cost more than $1,500 (airfare, 5+ nights of hotel, car rental/gas, food).
7:10 - do you think he shouldn't go at all or pay for this out of his own pocket? If so, then tell that to every state government department head (at every level) who travels to out of state meetings, conventions, etc... on taxpayer money.
The minutes would seem to imply that this is for Moriarity to fulfill State Cup responsibilities here (not Regionals). MYSA always sends a number of folks to regionals each year to begin with, so that amount should be in their annual budget at the outset. This appears to be above and beyond that.
$6,000 is absurd.
where does the man live?
I'm not a Moriarty or MYSA fan but I can speculate on the expense. Moriarty lives in CA now. I'm guessing the expenses are to get back and forth during the MN State Cup tournament. Which begs the question, why have an out of state person running state cup?
He probably does this so he can travel back and visit his family on someones else's "dime".
Why speculate? Just ask MYSA if you are so concerned or suspicious.
Yes, just leave a message on an MYSA voicemail, or send an email. Then buy a calendar and tear off the days until you hear back. Then keep track of the additional days until you get a straight answer to your question. Let us know.
I wonder if there is anything within the by-laws which explains where MYSA paid employees must reside? If there is a rule regarding where players can live, I would think that there should be something regulating this? Maybe not though?
I agree that $6000 is ridiculous for "State Cup expenses" for an employee who chooses to live somewhere other than the State where his duties must be fulfilled? This should be on his own dime, no question.
Let's quit our whining and ask how come the tournament is so expensive. application fee $600. vol. bond $150. So for approx. 165 teams, state cup brings in $95K. MYSA spends $6000, ref fees, field rental, security, etc. can't be $89K. What does MYSA do with the profits. that is when we need an inquiry.
Don't we get reports of lawsuits from MYSA. We all know that it costs to file and represent these. Also the staff has increased at the office. This should explain where some of the money is going.
Whoever corrected me needs to chill.. Why do you come on here?
Most of you guys are just trying to pick fights, I am just trying to see how some of the teams a doing.
I beleive each age group that wins the State Cup gets a stipend to help cover some of the cost of going to Regionals. The majority of the cost for State Cup is I'm sure referees and fields. I bet the referee cost per game is $100. I didn't count them up but it looks like on the schedule they have 568 games which would mean the referee cost is $56,800. MYSA does pay for the fields. So, I'm not sure they make anything on the State Cup.
Anon 26/4/10 7:30 PM
It so simple. When would you like the U17 boys to play. How about the U16, U17 and U18 girls? How about the U16 & U18 boys? That 68 teams that need to be accomidated for prom and probably 500 different schools.
FYI I remember a few years back the U17 girls were schedule on a Saturday afternoon, and parents complained because their daughter needed that time to get ready for prom. We hear this gripe every year, along with the one about not scheduling games during track meets.
Sit down with a piece a paper, and this years brackets and create your schedule for the tournament. Groups generally all play at the same time, so as not to give one team more rest than another. There are six fields I beleive, all games are played on Friday, Saturday and Sundays. No, lights remember. Each team only plays one game a day. Have fun.
13 b slp
14 b wbl
15 b wdb
16 b ggm
17 b rch
18 b edp
19 b mus
13 g nsc
14 c bhk
15 g bvl
16 g lwb
17 g stc
18 g psa
19 g blm
memorial day is state cup weekend
sat sun mon ,semi tues ,final wed
play in previous sunday at 6
just like regionals
every year for 5 years
these eg clubs/sites can plan right now
they know the dates and they have fields ready
no more 6:30 am check ins
lc
More than half of the teams (13s, 14s, 15s, 16s) are not effected by ACTs, SATs, or Proms. Have them play the 6pm Saturday games. And maybe the 8am Sunday games. Also, there are Wednesday games out there.
proms are a BIG deal, once in a life time oppurtunity
This is a soccer blog. Not prom blog. Get over it. By the way, Prom is a twice in a lifetime opportunity for most. Go back to the girls blog.
well, when there are U15B at 8 am, and U15G at 10 am, there are two times that can be swapped for the U17B and G games played at 4pm and 6pm on the same day.
Also, ask the local college coaches how excited they are that ALL games at a U17 or U16 age group are being played at the same time. how much can they watch of a team, if there are six games going on at the same time?
So far, there is a very short list of out of town coaches who will attend the event, and it is easy to see why. Not only that, but TM has made it so the local coaches will have a very hard time seeing a significant amount of many of the teams and players at this event in the U16 and U17 ages.
And we (MYSA members) are paying Moriarty's expenses at the rate of $6k for his expertise? c'mon
$6k was just his travel cost.
4/5/10 11:56 AM I agree with your first point, these ages could be moved, but again, this is a big soccer opportunity, the college coaches you are so upset about want comitted players not daters.
You assert that "local" college coaches are not excited that age group games are at the same times. Have you been to a major tournament, or MRL? Of course they are at the same times. Coaches expect this and deal with it. By the way, they come to see kids who have expressed and interest in their school, and if someone really stands out they may contact that kid too. Since they are "local", if they are interested in your kid, they'll have plenty of other opportunities to watch them.
The short list of out of town coaches is not due to TM or scheduling times, it is due to level of play compared to other states and college coaches are training and playing spring ball. Ignorance is no excuse. If your kid really wants to play college soccer, investigate college soccer, at least for the sake of your child.
Is your child registered in the Clearinghouse? If not, they won't even be considered.
No one has verified what the 6K budget approval is for. Could it be all the expenses for State Cup, is it just for TM. You don't know. SOME ADVICE FOR ALL OF YOU, read the MYSA website, specifically the recent lawsuit for slandering MYSA people on-line. Do you have facts? Or do you have a bunch of extra money you want to give to TM? You better have one or the other, you are not as anonymous as you would like.
Dear 8:41 (and others). Read the minutes from the meeting on February 10 MYSA Board Meeting.
Hardly libelous, given the skimpy report in the minutes. Yes, it is just for TM unless MYSA screwed up the minutes too.
Hey MYSA, start complying with your own rules regarding posting minutes. Your bylwas state that "All Standing, Elected and Special Committees must within two weeks of any meeting post on the MYSA website written minutes of that meeting." Does the budget commitee ever have a meeting?
Hey 5/5/10 9:40 AM, again, you are clearly making assumptions. "Hardly libelous, given the skimpy report in the minutes. Yes, it is just for TM unless MYSA screwed up the minutes too".
By the way, your facts are wrong too. Meeting 2/13 not 2/10.
If you have read the reports, you know they are vindictive, just trying to warn.
Um, I think that there is probably a difference between asking questions about a budget line item and sending emails stating that so-and-so is sleeping with so-and-so or that so-and so is a child molester.
You cannot be sued for asking questions regarding the minutes of a meeting- and demanding that things be made public which you have a right to. Just saying.
Really? Your mama wears army boots to bed!
And your daddy smells of elderberry (said with an English accent please)
I'm a little worried about the fields at LWB tonight-don't want to see any injuries and don't want the fields destroyed either. Wonder what the chances are of postponing games.
ODP boys may beat North Dakota this year. it's amazing how poorly they assess talent. has a natural defender ever made a MN ODP team? good luck boys. hope you consider your money well spent.
how are the fields this morning? any updates.
Yes, several natural defenders made last summer's ODP regional teams at 1996 and 1995
Fields are holding up really well.
ODP 95/96 means nothing with the development academy. If your not playing on U16 DA team, nobody is watching anyway. Who cares at this point?
7:47 your ignorant, there will always be players that will be missed by the academies. Before the academy program, ODP missed them. They are out there and if the right person sees them they will get grabbed by a college coach or other knowledgable soccer person.
7:47 Development academy hasn't been chosen yet, so it does mean something. Besides, the kids care and that's what matters.
Wow, this is really a dead place! What has happened????
it's a yawner this year for boys.
13/14 is all mta, as they've gathered all the good players at those ages. some dynasties should evolve out of these groups. i'd be hard pressed to look outside mta if i had a high-potential u12.
15 will be mta/scv (again). there are no superstars in this age group. usually by 15 the superstars are starting to stand out. not here.
16 saw a huge upset when psa took shattuck out of the tournament, but psa is bi-polar (how do you lose to edina and beat shattuck?)scv and mta blue have history and should have a good semifinal, but mta blue should win out, though it was a surprise they lost to mta white in pool play.
17 has always been about shattuck and mta blue. blue has struggled the past two state cups, but this may be their year. shattuck/blue blue will be the best championship game in the tournament if it happens.
18 is the opposite of 17, as the best players are spread out. blackhawks look like they've made the most improvements from last year to now, but shattuck is tough. too bad valley isn't here to defend.
17B semifinlist MRL records:
MTa Blue, 5-0-0
Shattuck, 1-1-1
Eden Prairie, 0-3-1
MTA White, 0-4-0
All are first division. Looks like MTA Blue has a chance at regionals. To bad two teams are going.
Just looked in, Wow. I'm kind of surprised. SSM has two of the five teams they entered into the State Cup not even make it thru pool play. That pretty bad.
4:17 - I'm not sure how much weight to put on the MRL results for a number of reasons. The first is that MTA Blue is in a different first division than the other three. Blackhawks (4-2) and PSA (3-1) are in the same first division as MTA Blue and they did not make it out of their respective pools. It's comparing apples to oranges.
Regarding your other point, if MTA Blue hadn't been relegated from the MRL premier division last year (0-5-2) and won it this year, we could have sent two teams.
I believe MN has the regional wildcard this year at U17B, so both semi-finalists will advance to Regionals.
1118- you mean finalists
Sorry -- you are right, I heard that both finalists go to regionals.
Who is the best non mta club?
Shattuck-St. Mary's :P
12/5/10 5:00 PM If you're not just trying to stir things up. What age, what are you looking for-training, successes, contacts for future college?? Elite, premiere, C1, C2?? What part of the Twin Cities?
West, psa
North, nssa
South, valley
East, scv
Different for girls.
U13 Boys State Cup games for tonight moved to Sunday. LWB fields closed for the last two days due to rain. First games in 48 hours will be tomorrow
Two Thunder Academy teams reach State Cup semis...unfortunately they play each other.
10:54? What age group? U14? or U16?
At U15 the semi finals are mta vs. blackhawks, and nssa vs. st croix . look for mta to dominate their game and nssa to squeak it out. any thoughts on this age group?
I agree, looking up statistics from last year at u15, the blackhawks were terrible and nssa beat st croix 3-0 and lost to mta 3-2. Finals will be nssa vs. mta. Agreed.
At U14B Edina beat MTW and won the pool. MTW ended up as wildcard. Semi's are:
MTA Blue vs MTW and Edina vs PSA
scv will beat nssa. scv is much stronger in 10.
MTA is over rated. SSM is worst.....
Wow! There are a ton of MTA teams already through to the semi-finals.
They have 2 teams through in several age groups when looking at boys and girls teams.
MTA's boys program has finally started to match the girls. US Dev Academy will be a huge selling point, as long as MTA ditches whoever is currently in charge of their marketing and finds someone with even a hint of experience. The 13s and 14s are products of the Bangu Academy program and clearly the choice for interested talent looking for a non-CC home. The west will always be the west - average. The big issue will be what MTA can do in the north and south to mimic what is happening in the east at the younger age groups.
2:24 PM, you over-exagerate, possible on purpose. Continue to drink the kool-aid!
and RZ too!
MTA has teams in State Cup semifinals at ages U13, U14, U15 and U16 in both boys and girls brackets. In several of these groups they have 2 teams in the semis.
They also have U17 boys in semifinal. U19 boys are unopposed winners and U19 girls will most likely win again.
Their younger teams have really improved the past 4-5 years.
This club is now actually developing players and not just convincing strong players to join their club.
oh, where to start with this one?
2:04 PM -- don't forget to post your "astute" comments on the other threads in this blog.
2:32 Don't forget to talk with your therapist about your jealousy.
2:32,
I doubt he was trying to be astute. Just the facts, man.
I feel your pain.
Jealousy about what? Your gibberish? That MTA is finally developing players? That you choose to pay lots of money for soccer and kool-aid?
Why does MTA allow dads to coach their kids teams after U12?
3:45,
Is there a law against that?
should there be one?
Why do other clubs allow dads to coach? What is your point? Is he a good coach or not? Do you want to do it? Would you be better?
These blogs are boring when
A. Tomass and I aren't participating in interesting discussion.
B. Nobody is cheating at State Cup.
Will some doofus from MTA please do something ridiculous at State Cup so we can talk about something?
cram it 10:10 AM
Do clubs associated with the USSF Development Academy allow dads to coach their kids team?
11:57,
Yes.
Do you folks realize that Michael Bradley who plays on the US Men's National team is coached on the US Men's National team by his father, Bob Bradley?
This gossip about dads coaching their kids is just silly. Grow up.
gossip?
Soccer Fanhouse: Bradley, who's still just 22 years old, has all the talent to command the center of the U.S. midfield for the next couple World Cup cycles, witness his two goals against Mexico back in February. When he's on the field the U.S. is clearly a more complete and dangerous team. Bradley has all the physical tools to succeed, if he can hone the mental aspects there's no ceiling to his upside.
Therein lies the rub, part of what makes Bradley such a force for the U.S. midfield is his strong, physical nature. By the same token, all it takes is a fraction of a second to turn a good, hard challenge into a bookable offense. And in a tournament setting like a World Cup, losing a player to a red card can cripple a team.
The fact that his father is the coach only serves to compound or muddle the issue depending upon how you choose to look at it.
3:02 no comprehendo?
que?
LOL - Mister Soccer - I second those comments
See BQ's article today on insidemnsoccer.com -- Cody Cropper gets a shutout for USA U20s against Senegal. Amidst all the accusations about MTA being a "non-development club", Cody -- who played for Bangu's (now) U17s and then MTA for four years -- excels at the national level. Question -- would he have developed into a national team player if he remained trapped in a CC like Chan-Chaska? CC United's president is waging a war against the "non-development clubs" and is threatening NSC and Coerver unless they promise no contact with MTA. Would Cody have developed into a viable national team player if he didn't join a club that looked for regional, rather than local and statewide competition? MTA has lots of warts, but at least it is trying to develop strong MN players into strong regional, and in at least one case, national, players.
Looking at Cody's credentials (i.e., father's connections), I think he'd have succeeded just about anywhere...well, maybe not a club like CC United because they'd want him to play equally at every position (and receive a nice participation ribbon at the end of the year, because everyone is a winner).
Congrats to Cody. I'm glad my boy doesn't have to see him during high school season anymore.
Cody's father was smart enough to get him into the best club for Cody's development which at the time was Bangu/MTA.
Agree 9:46 -- and that is the point. We can all pick apart MTA -- too expensive, arrogant, the MA scandal, the regional academies that play C1 level -- but it is moving in the right direction with its elite teams. To label it as a "non-development club" is ridiculous.
9:46 - Just a clarification. When Cody and his mother first moved to MN she joined the Wings club (U13). When that Wings team failed to make premier and resulting fallout, he moved to Bangu (U14).
keep shopping them around until you find the best deal. what's wrong with that?
I don't like MTA's shenanigans and I think many on their staff are arrogant bleepholes, but if I were a young player in MN, I would for sure try to play for MTA. And CC United would be nowhere on my radar.
Would you rather train with Manchester United or Hull City?
11:22 Thank you for the correction on Cody's history. So one year at Wings and 3 years at Bangu/MTA. Of course the CC United president has labeled Wings a "non-development club" as well. And of course this always raises the question as to where a successful player's "development" comes from. Cody clearly has soccer in the blood, and he got to where he is today due to his hard work. Another factor in my mind is playing at a high level of competition. That's what MTA is trying to do. It's absurd to call it a "non-development club" just because relatively strong MN players (all of whom are still very underdeveloped based on national standards) seek out that club for their team.
When does a player "stop developing"?
We always hear how pro athletes take a few years to develop at that level because they are still "raw" even after 4 years of college or several years in the minor leagues.
Do youth soccer players stop developing at U10? U12? U14?
In my opinion soccer players develop well into their 30's.
To say a club isn't developing players because they join the club when they're 13 or 14 years old is silly.
In Minnesota, male players typically do stop developing at about U12. That is why:
- We have so few players playing at high levels
- So many players quit before U18
- Our general level of play is putrid (see high school soccer)
Science shows that male soccer players are supposed to peak at age 27 on average. There are always outliers: Messi at 22 and Giggs at 54.
All clubs in MN try to develop players. Some try to develop college players (MTA) and some try to develop co-ed rec league participation ribbon recipients (ChanChas).
Ryan Giggs is 54yo? Wow. He's still good.
I think a typo - Giggs is not older than I am.
He's in his upper 30's which to Mister Soccer's point is not seen too often at this level of play
Giggs played for (but didn't develop with) Bangu. Bangu lied on The Blue Roster so he could play in State Cup and he's actually 57.
Not a typo. An intentional error.
Who is Bangu?
I think MTA and CC clubs need to understand their functions and that one cannot exist without the other.
CC clubs focus should be on developing the love of the game and friendships. Every kid on the field should be playing and having a lot of fun. They can even limit themselves to local participation in an effort to develop their HS teams and local communities. This is where kids and families begin! Unfortunately, CC coaches/parents at about 11, 12 and 13 are looking to build super teams and become upset when their best players leave. The coach/parent often is not looking at what best for the player but what best for the team.
MTA should understand and work with the community programs as that is were the love of the game is started. Five years olds do not want to become Pele, they want to have fun and play with their friends. I would even go so far as to say very, very few 11 and 12 years olds are that serious about soccer yet. I would agree that MTA coaches for the most part are arrogant. Which is too bad, as I feel they only are hurting the program in the long run?
IMHO parents can coach their kids but they should not be paid for it if fees are being collected for coaching fees. In other words, Bradley does not collect $3K from his son to pay for his salary. If you coaching you son and your Bradley, Pele or Lagos great! You just should not be getting paid to do it. If MTA has a paid coach coaching his/her child, they are are just asking for complaints and trouble.
BTW-the sky is a gorgeous azure blue in my world!
Is Yueill or the other dads coaching the MTA U13 blue boys team being paid coaching fees?
I think a better, clearer desciption of parent coaching needs to be defined.
Most folks think of parent coaching as just some guy like you or me trying to coach a team that has our kid on.
A parent with decades of coaching experience and a "C" level license coaching a team with his kid on it IMO falls under a different category.
I am an MTA parent with a son on a "Dad" coached team. My son's coach is paid, GLADLY, by the parents of the team. This man has played at high levels of international competition, is a great trainer and well worth the couple bucks per hour he actually makes. Don't fool yourselves, you would pay much more for daycare, a movie or even cable/satellite to watch and teach your child.
What are you doing while these dads are keeping you kid away from poor influences and the couch? Probably something for yourself, so you should probably be paying even more than you do.
Whoever the person is that dislikes the "Dad" coach concept needs to move on. If you don't like the situation- change, don't complain, find something better for your child. There are many good trainers available, get off your arse and find one.
12;49 There are legitimate issues with dad's coaching. Just ask some parents on the U13 team. Perhaps you should move on!
1:23, no need for anyone but you to move on, I like what my son is getting.
You obviously don't like what you are getting, that doesn't mean others don't or couldn't. It's YOUR problem, not someone else's. Be an adult and solve your own issue and quit blaming it or projecting it on others.
Nice exclamation point at the end too, shows your sanity level.
1:42 PM Boy, you are easily rattled. Grow up!
1:42 PM Boy, you are easily rattled. Grow up!
So what's the big issue and how does it have anything to do with the coach being a dad?
And, please if it is playing time for your little landon, please don't respond. We all know the responses you'll get if you do.
I agree with 12:49, I was a dad coach at younger ages, because no one else would do it. Some parents resented paying me for my time. I made almost $2 per hour to make sure their precious kid (who they barely slowed down to let out of the car) was safe, got exercise, had some fun, and learned a few things about the beatiful game. So if it is about pay, you need to think it through. These guys are sacrificing a lot, and I doubt anyone of them thinks they are perfect. You would pay significantly more for a baby sitter to watch cable at your house, drink your pop, and eat your snacks...
At U13 Blue, coach can't separate from dad, which leads to trouble and unfairness. 12:49/1:42 is likely talking about U16 Blue, where coach separates himself nicely from dad. Bottom line, if your kid truly is the star, you shouldn't coach him, and if he isn't the star, don't treat him like he is.
To the MTA/CC question, if MTA wants to be elite, they should stop trying to be elite AND big, i.e., drop the white, green, and grey teams (did I miss a color)? You can't really be elite and compete in MYSA's standard leagues without everyone hating you. People don't like SSM, but they don't hate them because SSM caters to the very best (yes, few are from MN, but that's another story).
Finally, if MTA's leaders could preach a little humility to their coaches and trainers, that would go a long way. We all know your teams are loaded...stop bragging about it.
2:01 PM Nice response!
It's State Cup, people, with big weekend games. (1) If you had to pick one semifinal to watch on Saturday, which would it be? (2) What's your dream matchup for Sunday's final?
Personally, I want to see St. Croix versus MTA Blue (U16) on Saturday. I have two dream finals: MTA Blue versus Shattuck (U17) and Blackhawks versus Shattuck (U18).
How about the younger ages?
Why should MTA care if anyone hates them? They're playing by the same rules all other clubs play by.
People hate the Yankees in baseball because they win. Thats the same reason people hate MTA.
Move on with your life...this stuff really doesn't matter. Worry about your own kid and not kids on other teams.
2:20 who cares about 18 boys, its a joke without valley there, whoever wins will still be considered second best
I am 2:26. I don't care about your kid.
I don't have kids. I worry about kids. I want the USA to win a World Cup and I want Minnesotans on the team. The philosophies of the majority in MN, as in those who hate everything about "elite clubs," seems to make US Soccer move backwards from this goal.
When you get past all the crud, I see there to be 2 primary reasons to be involved in youth soccer.
1. To educate our youth.
2. To help USA win a World Cup.
I don't believe in educating youth through sports. Sports teach too many negative lessons (see MTA State Cup scandal, see steroids, see ESPN headlines). Therefore, I care most about #2 while so many in MN are worried about participation medals, parent coaches and boycotting the closest thing we have to a pro team.
To Anon 20/5/10 1:57 PM
By your response I would say you’re probably pretty intelligent however I don't think you’re able to see the larger issues. If you have a paid parent as a coach should other parents expect to be paid for their expertise? Does the parent manager who is an administrative assistant get paid? Does the parent who is a travel agent get paid to arrange travel plans? Does the medical professional parent get paid for looking at or advising coaches/parent and player on how to treat injuries? All of these people put in countless hours.
If you’re only making $2 hour isn't spending quality time with your kid worth the $2 hour?
As far as barely slowing down to let them out of the car....Do you want the parents watching practices? Some coaches complain loudly that the parents watch practices, they are usually describing the parents that do as being over involved. I think at the beginning of the year if you were to say, I expect parents to attend practices, the parents would probably be there. Most coaches I know don’t want the parents there as they consider them a distraction.
20/5/10 2:01 PM sounds like you don't like decisions made by the coach, that doesn't make them wrong or unfair, a little more specifics might add an ounce of credibility.
Question, if the coach's son is a star, and it is due to his coaching, why should he bow out? His son should be coached by whom? Someone less qualified??
Point in case, Teal Bunbury was coached extensively by his DAD. Have you seen this kid play? Was it unfair that his DAD helped him? Have you met this kid, I would be proud to have been his coach, his teacher, let alone his dad who was all of these. Your point is woefully flawed.
Do you know someone better than the u13's dad/coach that is qualified and WILLING to coach u13's? Then have your son tryout for his team next season. You never know, it may be the best choice you make, and your son may develop into a star and then you can stop bashing coaches.
By the way, do you think your kid is the Star? Why is it you think he should be treated better? Doesn't every dad, regardless of them being a coach or not have this same perception??
To Anon 20/5/10 2:54 PM
The larger issue is not other parents who are helping. It is the parents who are not helping, and complaining that paying an adult to teach their child soccer and life lessons is too much when in reality it probably doesn't cover gas and cheap fast food dinner once a week.
I don't hear any DADcoach complaining about the quality time with their boys isn't worth it. Another argumentative suggestion.
If parents watched practices and kept their mouths shut, they might not yell crazy instructions to their boys during games. Yes you know you have heard and seen it, the exact opposite of the team strategy. They may also find out why little landon is not getting tons of playing time or starting by watching what they do at training. Better yet, they could see what their child needs help with and work on it with them at home...
I think you may be right, most coaches don’t want the parents there as they consider them a distraction- because they are. Parents think they have a veto power over tactics, training schedules, everything. It just doesn't work, unless they act like adults.
My point is still this, if you don't agree with the coach, quit complaining and find someone else. Don't ruin it for everyone, fix it for your child.
whoa, 2:56. log off your e*trade account, I think the market's got you stressed.
My kid hasn't been coached by a dad since he was U9. He is happy and plays plenty, though he is not a star. This isn't about him (or me). I opine as an observer of many club teams, not as someone who's kid was spurned by a dad-coach.
Odd, my point was to praise Bunbury, as he appears to be one who does it right. Niemann too.
My point, which I'll re-word due to your overly-defensive response to it, is that all too often, in intense, competitive environments (I'd say that fits MTA), the dad-coach who shows preference to his kid will raise the ire of the intense, competitive parents (I'd say MTA tends to attract them) of kids who don't play as much. From what I've heard, it sounds like both forces are in play with the MTA 13s.
I'm not talking about whether there's quality training and development. I'm saying (in an intense competitive, environment)the dad-coach who plays his kid 100% will be PERCEIVED as showing preference, and that will undoubtedly be PERCEIVED as a slight by someone else. If that PERCEPTION is there, it will eventually ruin the team. I've seen entire age groups ruined by dad-coaches.
I respect those dad-coaches who won't coach their sons...typically because they're not good enough to play on the team, but sometimes because they are.
And I know several D- and C-licensed coaches who would take a U13 team...maybe not at MTA, though.
Game on.
2:48 PM -- You say the 2 primary reasons to be involved in youth soccer are:
1. To educate our youth.
2. To help USA win a World Cup.
Are you kidding? Your thinking is why US soccer is moving backwards.
Mister Soccer,
It's unfortunate you refer to Mark Abboud's decision at last years State Cup as the "MTA scandal".
That was completely Abboud's decision and was done without others in the club being aware of what he would do. It is a Mark Abboud scandal.
What did the MTA club do to Abboud after that occurred? Is he still a director in that club? Do you think they condoned that decision?
Did you ever think maybe MA's middle initial was T? It isn't? Oh, nevermind.
4:10,
Other than some kind of soccer mommy response like:
1. To have fun.
2. To build self-esteem.
3. To promote good health.
And other than some soccer daddy response like:
1. To get a college scholarship.
2. To make money.
3. To develop skills to crossover to hockey.
What would you say is the primary reason to be involved in youth soccer?
Can people use Names please? This is getting very difficult to follow. As pointed out by 3:44, you people don't even know who is arguing for who.
To Anon 20/5/10 3:16 PM
The larger issue is the dad getting PAID to coach his son. The other parents are assisting and not getting PAID, but are lending their expertise. You want to coach your son's team. Then coach it. Just don't get PAID. You will take a lot of wind out of parents sails if your not getting paid.
I do think you should take a long look at the dynamics of this year U18 age group. Lots and lots of parent coaches. Lots and lots of problems. Bunberry was probably the exception not the rule. I thought Bunberry did not get paid to coach his son's team, I could have that wrong, but I remember hearing that and being impressed.
8:01 - been following this discussion and am a bit confused. When you state "The other parents are assisting and not getting PAID, but are lending their expertise" what exactly do you mean? Is one dad the actual coach and some of the other parents assist during practices and during the games? Just curious.
8:01 what are the problems with this years u-18 group, lots an lots of good teams, I don't really see that as a problem, the best team in that group is coached by two dads who don't get paid, dads can coach teams at high levels just fine if they are good coaches and know what they are doing, if hey are not good coaches then it really doesn't matter they will not succeed
MY should step down as head coach of the MTA U13 team. RZ has shown no ability (some might even say no desire) to be fair or unbaised in addressing concerns and complaints, possibly due to the fact that MY is also on the executive board. MY should still be the assistant coach, and I'm certain that there are other strong coaches that would love to be head coach that team.
4:57 PM To avoid becomong like you.
Lots and lots of problems with the U13 group.
1:04,
Evidently winning isn't one of them...
Right, just one factor to consider. If winning is everything, then I guess there is no issue, correct?
I would bet the vast, vast majority of comments regarding the U13 MTA boys team are originating from folks that have no connection to that team and are just trying to stir it up.
Just mix a pinch of cynicism and a dose of anger, and sprinkle in some lies, and you have the recipe for a popular blog.
The truth hurts sometimes.
OK, enough with the vendettas. If you want a new coach for your kid's team, let the club know.
Back to the main thread. Some predictions for tomorrow and Sunday?
U13s
MTA vs. Blackhawks
Woodbury vs. Lakeville
U14s
MTE vs. MTW
PSA vs. Edina
U15s
MTA vs. Blackhawks
St. Croix vs. North Suburban
U16s
MTW vs. PSA
St. Croix vs. MTA
U17s
MTA Blue vs. Eden Prairie
MTA White vs. Shattuck
U18s
Blackhawks vs. St. Croix
Shattuck vs. MTA
1:51 PM,
The problems exist.
U17s: its MTA Blue vs. Shattuck in the finals, with MTA winning on penalty kick in 58th minute.
U18s: Blackhawks handle St. Croix 3-1; Shattuck over MTA 2-1. Blackhawks handle Shattuck 2-0 in finals.
(U17B) ...and Shattuck proceeding to "earn" three red cards, including one after the final whistle.
Mark my words...Shattuck loses, three red cards.
At 16, Blue is vulnerable, losing to White in pool play. If PSA can keep their cool, they can win it all. They destroyed Shattuck.
The problems always exist on any team for players who don't get as much play time. Usually the 13th through 18th spots on the roster.
Life is good for the majority of players.
or the 2nd through 18th spots on MTA 13, if you believe the whiners.
Life is only good if you're a dad-coach.
Vendettas? Hardly. Parents have already gone to the club and were told to get lost in so many words.
Predictions: MTA wins a clear majority of the games and MTA-Bangu diehards tout their accomplishments on this thread, then make excuses during regionals and then try to justify why the MTA model is a juggernaut.
Jimmy The Greek's predictions:
U13
MTA
Lakeville
MTA wins it all, Lakeville alleges dad-coach is Russian spy.
U14
MTE
Edina
Edina wins it all, MTE ponders a community club strategy.
U15
MTA
St. Croix
MTA wins it all, St. Croix sues and gets result reversed on a technicality.
U16s
PSA
MTA
PSA wins it all, MTA attempts to replace Wings with PSA at U16.
U17s
MTA Blue
Shattuck
Shattuck wins it all, MTA Blue looks forward to not having to play State Cup anymore.
U18s
Blackhawks
Shattuck
Blackhawks win it all, Shattuck cries all the way home.
2:56 and 3:00
It has nothing to do with playing time. It's all about egos. This is his baby!
My son plays for (insert high school, college, or professional team name here).
I don't like the decisions the coach has made to date. The school/organization should fire him because I don't like him. And if they don't they're all arrogant jerks.
Get real! You are one opinion and probably don't understand the game anyway.
Yaaaawn. Nice try 3:53.
I've been a part of MYSA for 23 years. I have never belonged to anything Bangu/MTA and I most likely never will. There are a lot of people within Bangu/MTA that I don't care for and there are countless things Bangu/MTA has done that make me want to puke.
With that said, despite its many flaws, the MTA model is the best model MN has ever had for development and if I were a young player, I would certainly try to play for MTA before any other club.
Although I don't root for MTA, I do want to see them do well because that will only help us reach the goals I outlined above.
Everyone, remember to tell your kid tonight why you signed him/her up for soccer --To help USA win a World Cup!
Looks like the current U13's age group has the make-up to morph into the current U18 age group with all the parental involvement. The one big difference is with the emergence of SSM/MTA and the USSF DAP's, there is a good chance that the best players will all migrate (or kind of be forced) to play there. The MTA teams that are younger than the Developmental Academy teams will start to see an influx of players so they are already "part of the process" and have some recognition prior to the teams being formed.
Make no mistake about it. MTA getting into the USSF Development Academy has separated them by miles from the other true soccer clubs in Minnesota. I don't consider SSM a true soccer club.
SSM is an anomoly due to their school status and will only be a real option for few Minnesota kids as we've seen for the past few years.
The soccer landscape in Minnesota has been changed forever.
And thats a good thing!
How were the field conditions at State Cup today?
Was wind a big factor in the games?
Wind was a huge factor - especially by the second half of the 2PM games.
Fields were terrible. They are severely damaged now. Shouldn't have played today - grass is all ripped up.
What do you expect whenyou have a Tournament Director (Moriarity) that is more concerned about the color of the compression shorts than the field conditions. Good luck to the St. Croix folks who will be stuck with the tab and the work of trying to fix their fields.
6:26 - just can't let it (or him) go can you? BTW, that same uniform rule is enforced at the RII championships as well.
Also, regarding the fields, no one made LWB bid on hosting the tournament - so tough to have any sympathy for those involved.
Haha! 3:11 - love it!
still looking on MYSA website for semi final results....anyone?
Well the evil empire has proven their dominance at 13 to 15. Let's see how they do on the regional playfield they were built to play on. I hope they succeed.
Mister Soccer, its too bad that you have such bad feelings about MTA. They were able to be successful in spite of MYSA and the large CCs efforts to stifle player opportunities and player development by creating petty and ridiculous rules. As a club Bangu/MTA persevered through hard work, dedication and a love for the sport. Every club and organization have people who make mistakes and bad decisions. I have been around youth soccer in 3 states over 20 years and can say the Bangu/MTA has one of the fewest numbers bad apples. The large CCs in MN have accumulated a much larger number of bad apples. We are all entitled to our opinions, but I think your expression of hate was probably already known by the soccer community at large. Why don't you take this opportunity to start working for what is best for youth players, and not petty b.s.
12:01 - I didn't see any petty B.S. in his comments. I saw his biased personal viewpoint circumvented by a nice factual soccer statement about where one should go if they wanted to play with the best.
I do agree that MTA has had to overcome a lot to reach the level they have achieved today. Some done correctly, some not so much.
I do admire the MTA board for staying out of coaching decisions based on parental wants and desires. It is soccer directed rather than parental directed. I do not see that in any CC any more
I just heard that the boys U17 MTA White has beaten SSM in a shootout this afternoon.
Whoa. Did not see that coming.
Today's Boys Finals:
U13 MTA over Lakeville 4-0
U14 MTA over Edina 5-0
U15 MTA over NSAA 5-0
U19 MTA is Champion (uncontested
Today's Semi-Finals:
U16 SCV over MTA 2-1
U16 MTA over PSA 2-2 (PKs)
U17 MTA over EDP 3-0
U17 MTA over SSM 0-0 (PKs)
U18 BHK over SCV 2-1
U18 SSM over MTA 4-0
Congrats to MTA U17s! In rain postponed semi's played this afternoon, Blue wins over Eden Prairie 6-0 and White beats Shattuck in shootout, after 0-0 score after 120 minutes. A very large crowd on hand, and MTA Blue boys roar, mob the field and dive into the White team dogpile after last save by brilliant MTA White keeper. Teams square off Thursday night for bragging rights, but both are on the way to Regionals due to U17 wildcard.
So we have an all MTA final at U17?
That would be interesting if both teams weren't already through to regionals due to wild card at that age.
Congrats to both MTA Blue and White teams and good luck at regions.
Will they be feeding each other orange slices at halftime? So cute.
Thanks!
Guess they were cute enough to beat SSM and EDP.
And cute enough that both are going to regions!
Hey tomASS, check this one out! For real! Guinness is good for you.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3266819.stm
Watched the mta16 white vs psa. spectacular game. mta boys should be really proud!
6:48 - Guinness drinkers knew this already!
;-)
What up w shattuck v WEAK mta white. Do they not care? R they tired after so much soccer for so long? What up?
Scv 16s prove the harder you work the luckier you get. Pretty but lucky win. Neutralize the outside speed and shoot low.
SSM dreams pinned to one game Wednesday. Should be an interesting game between two good teams - I would expect emotions to be quite high!
I would not rip the SSM U17 too much, 9:37 - that MTA white team has proven itself quite nicely over the past couple of years. SSM was better in many areas of the game, but needed to make a play at some point to earn the trip to OH.
Is the U17 SSM coach the same as their U17 coach from last year, whose team did not get out of group play?
MTA White hasn't won in a weak MRL first division.
Dominating performances by the MTA U13, U14 and U15 boys in bracket play, semis and finals.
I was there to watch my sons SCV U-16 team play MTA in the semi and saw the 2nd half of the younger age matches.
Not only did the MTA teams display excellent technical skills and obvious athletic ability but they also played a great style of soccer that was mature beyong their years. It was refreshing to see young teams who have been taught how to play the game rather than just rely on speed or 1 superb player for success.
Whatever they are doing in that program is working and bodes well for their future success in the Development Academy.
Congrats to those team and coaches.
24/5/10 10:20 AM that is funny
10:35
I didn't see the games but saw the scores and judging from the scores the younger MTA boys totally dominated the u13, u14 and u15 tournament.
They are obviously much better than their opponents in most aspects of the game to win by such great margins.
Nothing funny about that IMHO.
At U17, Eden Prairie survives its group consisting of 4 premier teams, but loses to MTA Blue 6-0 in semi-finals. A message about strength of MYSA premier teams? or just a bad day for Eden Prairie? I think MTA is proving that it is miles ahead.
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