The bottom line is it was a form of cheating. Yup,cheating in youth soccer. That tells you all you need to know about the coaches and MTA.Now we'll see just what the Thunder is made of. Pretty sad.
How could an ex-professional player and current professional coach imagine that anything good could come from fixing the results of a shootout in any game, let alone a state cup semifinal game against "older sisters" from his own club? Though I'm certainly no expert, I have to believe that he's exposed himself, his players, his team, and his club to severe and long-lasting sanctions.
It's called collusion. If AK knew about this before hand, as it appears he did, he should share in the responsibility.
It appears that he was willing to live with the consequences when he thought they would benefit his team; he now needs to live with the negative consequences as well.
I like AK as a person and admire him as a coach. He is, however, an adult (not a helpless child as some of you make out), and as such needs to take some responsibility.
509, Ak knew that MA was going to do something to change the outcome of the game. Ak had a small role in this and is not innocent. I would respect him a lot more if he would come forward and take responsiblity for his lack of actions.
5:20, And that wouldn't have been obvious until the 2nd time the ball was passed to the GK. Too late to fix the situation. The damage was done. I wouldn't blame the ref. He was probably too stunned to think.
I know - especially the comment to punish the U12 players - what are you going to do? Take away their Webkins? Change their curfew from 9:00 to 8:30? Not let them go trick or treating next year?
Anyone care to fill us in on what happened between the MTA U-12's last year (this year's U-13 team in question) in the U-13 semifinal against Tonka? Something about additional time put back on the clock late in the 2nd half of a 1-0 Tonka game? Don't know if this is true, but I heard if John Tudor wasn't the old pro that he is, that game would have been protested by Tonka. Maybe it helped him consider his retitrement just two months later?
anon 629 - the ref always manages the time on the field and can add time where he/she sees fit based on substitutions, injuries, or perceived petty time wasting.
Oh great, Tom is on this blog. First, thanks for your efforts with State Cup thus far. Second, don't listen to any yahoo on this site calling for more blood than is needed.
Wayne, does anyone know if the EPSC has been notified of your reckless disregard of the MYSA tryout policy? Wonder if the EPHS or MSHSL know about the threats you've made regarding HS playing time to girls who choose to leave your club?
Mrs Robinson are you trying to seduce me? Your response would lead me to believe so. Good Post. Westsider you too, but I don't want you even thinking about that seduction comment.
My two cents and I am sure I will have change coming back.
1) The players or teams should not be punished. They have been punished enough by how they see adults acting in a game that should belong to them.
2) Mark Abboud has admitted fault. He has admitted his wrong doing and regrets it. So here the club, the MYSA, and the state cup can deal in facts and punish a coach who fixed a game's outcome. They can decide his punishment. Someone suggested a lifetime ban. That punishment does not fit the "crime". It is too severe. I do believe how the game's outcome was manipulated disgraces the game itself and is as severe if not more so than using illegal players. Make a decision quickly and do it with a meaningful penalty. No further point in discussing the matter. He cheated, he disgraced the game, he admits his mistake, he has lost considerable credibility, and he is willing to take his punishment like a man. Mark forgot the game is bigger than he or his club is. Any special, emergency meetings at the MYSA called tonight?
3) AK - we can speculate all we want. Only he can tell the powers to be what he knew and what he allowed to happen. He is the one that has to live with what he tells the soccer powers.
4) I think Wayne asks a good question- We don't know how the MTA operates and if they are so closely tied with the Thunder, what is the MTA doing to make sure that all parties are aware of what occurred and how they are handling it. Another question is. "has MTA notified their major sponsor Nike to limit damage control. If I am Nike and MTA touts themselves as being the only Nike premier team in the state, and there is this controversy , I am inquiring what action is being taken.
4) I would believe EP would want to play the best team possible. What's the point of winning the prize if you can't compete against the best competition. Of course any thing any MTA team does in this age bracket this year is tarnished. That is a shame for the kids based upon an adult action.
5) Impressed the Ref bitching has been held to low roar.
6) I like M!M! - carry on, keep up being blunt and calling them as you see them
7) Sheiki is not a racist. You PC liberal loons need to get over yourself and not be afraid to have candid conversations about race and facts of life. Just because you don't like or agree with what someone says or how he presents his argument does not make him a racist. Easy comment to make when you can't debate a subject on its facts.
8) good to see this blog is like watching TV land - the same reruns of subjects, bitching, and whining. I do wish mn futbol would make everyone take monikers to help with knowing who said what so better discussions can take place and be followed.
9) MYSA will put Tom M out there in the wind to make a decision.If it is a bad one, they will let him take the blame. If the commoners like it the MYSA bureaucrats will take the credit. MYSA lacks soccer leadership and doing the right common sense thing.
of course everything stated here is just my opinion
Hey, 1100 anon coward. reckless disregard for the MYSA tryout policy? laughable even before a beer.
I have worked and conducted training session during this week long camp. If the kids are trying out they sure don't know it because all I have seen is a group of EP soccer players of all ages and sizes having a great time all week long and enjoying the game of soccer in a camp setting - learning and improving their game.
Maybe your club should try it eh. Nice religious overtone, I personally like an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth especially in my playing days ;-)
"I didn't play to lose the game. I didn't sit back and have our girls in a defensive formation..."
Wow. This guy really sells the kool-aid to the parents. I appreciate MA’s willingness to be candid and it really shows his passion and knowledge, but don’t take advantage of parents who don’t know anything by twisting your words. Playing defensive isn't playing to lose. It's playing to beat a stronger team. He even previously mentions that he knows this in his blog. Playing his "normal" style was essentially playing to lose (which he was quietly hoping would happen from the start).
Outside of that, MA seems sincerely remorseful. He clearly likes the game and the kids. I hope he learns his lesson and doesn't continue to sell kool-aid to his team in e-mails and in week-long player discussions which is probably making things worse.
Funny how short memories are. People forget that M.C. (Director of MTA girls) was removed from Holy Angels years ago for some shady financial handling of the Star Dome and for his inappropriate approach to coaching high school girls. MTA may have some leadership issues.
I think everyone consumed with ruining these two coaches over a decision about a kids soccer game should get a life and move on!!! This is not the World Cup they are 12 and 13.
8:55 I think if this had been EP or DKT REV you'd be talkin' out the other side of your mouth. All the kids in the 13 bracket, all the tournament participants all the workers were affected by this. Mostly another "black eye" for Mn soccer delivered to us.
I'm scratching my head over this one. How did this effect anyone other than the teams involved. In my view, this is an internal matter for MTA and MYSA. I'm sure it will be handled by them. Until they announce something, nothing anyone says on this blog will change what happened.
The championship games are a little more than a week away, I'm sure there's a lot to be said about those games. A lot of girls worked hard to get where they are, maybe it's time to focus on them.
WH threatened his club players with not making his HS team if they decided to move to another soccer club. Some people have short memories. This is an obvious breach of ethics. Isn't it? Is WH still employed by that club and HS? Food for thought.....
and the MC history at AHA is relevant here how? you're just proving your nothing but a MTA rock thrower and don't bend to any reason or rational thought.
9:20 - conversely, the current AHA coach (who by the way is a trainer for MTA)told his star HS player she should leave MTA and join Woodbury (JE's U17 team) if it truly was in the best interest of her development as a player, and the best choice for her family. Incidentally that's the road she picked. The coach wasn't fired from MTA or anything (gasp), her little sister still plays for MTA and wasn't cut or anything (gasp)
Just thought I'd throw one example out there that not everyone at MTA is "ethically challenged."
How is DREV affected by all of this when they did not get out of their pool? Not even completely sure how this affects EP. IMO, this whole incident impacts the two teams involved.
It's like MTA is a wounded fish and all the sharks out there are in a frothed up feeding frenzy.
8:55, I think it's the bloggers that realize this isn't the World Cup. It's the MTA Clowns that think this is the World Cup (or maybe the Serie A) where they will go as far as match fixing. We're mad as heck and we're not gonna take it anymore!)
9:19 has a good point. This only involves the MTA clown show. So nobody else should really care. But it's fun to analyze and to read about in the STrib. For soccer in MN, no press is bad press.
9:19 Are you serious? This was a State Cup semi final game. Two coaches (and directors) from the same club took it upon themselves to play God and determine who should advance to play against EP. They clearly chose the team they felt was better hence, have put EP in a position that they may have otherwise not been subjected too. Can EP play with either team, probably, but other than just giving the State Cup title to EP, or having them play against the next best team for the title , this State Cup title will be a farse (if MTA wins the game). Now move it a step further, Lets say they let the MTA 13's play and they advance to regionals, and somehow upset a really strong team in the early rounds, we will never know if the true regional champ is the true regional champ. It's kind of like in baseball after there is an error in an inning all of the following runs are considered unearned. Reason, had the fielder made the out the runs may have never happenned.
The rule as copied and pasted here several times looks clear that the 13's from MTA should be disqualified from further contention because their coach was aware of the act the other teams coach was about to do. It was an effort to manipulate the system by two individuals who are both directors of the club that the two teams represent. Both coaches have something to gain by putting the stronger team to the finals because both have a vested interest in the success of the club. The very unfortunate thing here iis that they put the club infront of the players and somehow managed to convince themselves that this was OK. It is not OK and appropriate penalties must apply to avoid future coaches,directors etc. from pulling similarly boneheaded moves in the future.
9:40 - as has been requested numerous times regarding this subject, please provide the confirmation that, per your own words, "their coach was aware of the act the other teams coach was about to do. It was an effort to manipulate the system by two individuals who are both directors of the club that the two teams represent." Personally, I am quite tired of the insinuations and assumptions. You seem quite sure of yourself so I am also sure you can respond back fairly quickly with the details.
Could someone please tell me how this affects EP? Wouldn't they have had to play the winner regardless of how the game ended? If they win, then they deserve to go to regionals, if they lose, then they stay home.
Wow do you people have nothing better to do than sit on a blog and complain. People make mistakes in life and complaining and wanting to hurt others is not going to change the mistake. As adults you should be talking with your kids about this, helping them learn from this situation and move on in life. Life is too short to be sitting around complaining about a situation you have no control over. Morals, values and the way your children grow up start at home. So let go and enjoy life.
I guess there is no chance to switch the conversation to talk about a preview of the games coming up on the fields. maybe that will occur late next week
9:52 Forgiving the guilty is fine, and I will, however to forgive (a morals based decision) is completely different than being sure the rules are adhered too. Rules were violated and punishment must be given otherwise rules will not ever be followed. You speaking of looking out for the best interest of your child should know this.
10:03 - I think we are all in agreement with you on the fact that rules need to be followed and adhered to, if not, why have them. The bigger issue seems to be a rush to judgment by many without all the facts, knowledge, and details. Did the U12 coach break the rules - yes, and he has admitted it. What hasn't been confirmed is if the U13 coach did.
Has anyone noticed that AK has not come onto the board and not said one way or the other that he wasnt aware as to what went on that day. From other posts that ive read hes been on here before. Why hasnt he spoken up on here and said hey guys i knew nothing about what MA was was doing he did it on his own. He has kept his mouth closed my guess for good reason.
9:49 Please read the blog info posted several times that the two coaches had previously discussed this senerio and how they would handle if the situation ever came up. The worst thing the MTA gang could try to do here is try to wiggle out of this mess. They broke some rules, they need to go above and beyond to rectify the situation. I am stunned that the Minnesota Thunder board has not come out with a strong statement of self imposed penalties. The longer they try to play technicalities and attempt to sweep this under the rug the more likely this blows up even more. It is posted on MA's blog that this was the intent as discussed by the two directors/coaches in question. It seems the best thing for MTA, The Minnesota Thunder, and Minnesota soccer is for the guilty parties to accept thier penalties,ask forgiveness and get past this. That unfortunately however means that the U-13 girls have to pay a stiff price for their coach's and club directors bad decisions. Of course this is just my interpretation of the rules and my opinion.
I think if you read the exBoard email that was sent to club(very vague). That all directors and board members are staying quiet until all the facts, penalties and sanctions are in place. The exception being MA who cannot keep quiet because it is his a** on the line.
actually, 9:49, if you read the posts, MA states how "he" would have handled it differently in his conversations with AK. Big difference - tough to wiggle out of something you aren't trapped in. But as you state, this is just your opinion.
People can discuss all kinds of scenarios and possibilities. To actually think someone would throw a game in this fashion is stretching the imagination. By the time the girls on the field actually passed the ball to the opposing GK when they took their PK it was too late. There was nothing the U13 coach or players could do. The situation was not in their control. Penalizing or sanctioning a team that did nothing wrong and couldn't control the situation is absurd.
AK wasn't in control of the opposing team. The girls who took the PKs on the U12 team took their direction from MA. AK could do nothing to stop what his opponent's players did on the field.
As a coach, the last thing I would ever want any team or individual to do is to literally hand me a win that was not earned. I personally can't imagine standing there watching what transpired and not trying to stop it some how, some way.
but that is me, I have a big mouth and strong personality.
As a parent with several children in the MTA organization, I am questioning the integrity of the club.
One child is in the finals against another MTA team that clearly has better talent and would represent the state better at regions, in my opinion. If the two teams played 10 times, the better team would win 8 of them.
Now I'm wondering if it happened once, can it happen again?
How about next time a team uses an illegal player, they win State Cup, get found out, I want to be sure all the MTA apologists come on here and plead not to take the championship away because of the effects on the children.
10:30, So tell us what you would have done. What could you have done once the opponent passed the ball to your GK? We won't hold our breath waiting for your answer.
No horse in the race here but the most logical solution here is to have the second place team from the U12's group (PL) play the 13's for a chance to play EP, then all the drama can be focused on MA and we'll have a true regional participant from one of three teams.
10:48, It appears that there is also a group that believe even if AK was aware that MA had speculated about possibly doing this there was nothing AK's team could do to stop the opposing team from obeying their coach.
I think were all in unison that its not the kids fault but more the coach. However, the coaches represent the team. And the rules clearly state you can't fix the results. So therefore both teams should be disqualified. Its to bad for the kids sake that two coaches had to put there organization before the kids. Its not the kids fault at all. But its a lesson they will never forget. I blame the coaches not the kids for this mishap. It makes you think about who you hire for the coach of your team. Its pretty much unbelievable that a coach would do this to his team.
Aren't there at least a couple MTA vs MTA finals yet to be played? 15 girls and 13 boys right? How juicy! Who do they have slated to win? Have they discussed who can best represent MTA? Once you open pandora's box, there is no limit to where it can go. If I were MTA I would nip this in the bud asap. They have to isolate this to an individual and not the club. Frankly, I support MA (not idolize, just support) but he (or anyone) isnt bigger than the club or the kids. MA has buitl much of Bangu on his own sweat but like many 'entrepreneurs' it might be time to step aside and let the bureaucrats run the business. It has gotten too big for him now sad to say.
After reading this blog it pretty obvious that the kids are not the number one priority. It's all about the dollar and this should suprise nobody.I could name a half dozen coaches who's number one priority is the club not the kids.There is no place in youth soccer for these individuals.
How could you trust anybody who would cheat in a kids game.
I know many of you know MA and AK, some have kids on their team, others know them as fellow coaches. For those of you just referenced ask yourself honestly if you think AK wasn't aware of what was going to take place. These two are good friends, they are regularly at each others games,they help run the academy together. Now add in MA's blog info that this was thought about long ago as the way they would handle this type of situation if it were to come up again. the fact that the reason this was to be the way they would handle it this way was soley because of the fact that AK's then 12's did beat the then 13's . Do you really think the two wouldn't have had this discussion? that MA did this all alone and AK was just completely oblivious to the thought that this may take place? It would seem amazing to me that MA would come up with this theory all on his own with no input from AK especially since AK's team was the "case study" that they (oops I mean he) based this plan on.
So feel free to pound this post with "you have no facts" "prove it" " show me in writing" etc.etc. It is time for people to live up to their mistakes and quit playing legal eagles with this. Maybe I am wrong and this was the one tactical piece about these two teams that niether of the coaches ever brought up to one another, could be? probably not.
MTA do the right thing here for MN soccer and own up to your mistake, appologize to the girls and wish EP good luck at regions. Oh Yea, just my opinion.
11:11 You are using a discussion that MA had a year ago as your reason for Andy's guilt by association. MA wrote what he would of done had he been in the same situation. At no time does he say that AK should have done this nor did he say that they discussed this senario any further. AK proved what he would have done, his younger team won the game in kicks. MA is at fault, it was his idea, an idea he thought of a year ago and one that he used to advance the older team. Assuming AK is guilty by association is wrong and has no merit. Until you can prove he had knowledge that it was going to happen than the U13 team and coach are not at fault.
It's a well known fact that MTA is run by a cabal of five or six guys for their benefit. If the Thunder wants to improve their image now's the time to clean house.
I believe that it was MA's actions alone and AK couldn't do anything to stop the opposing team.
In MA's blog, he states that in 2008 he would have been inclined to persuade AK to do this. It says nothing about AK actually being persuaded or supporting this in any way.
What was going through AK's head? It's a shootout to go to the final with 16 crazy 13-year-old girls. He was probably caught up in the moment, crossing his fingers that his girls perform and busy coaching his players to relax. I can't imagine how ridiculous it would be to walk onto the pitch, waving your arms, pausing the shootout, or doing whatever you would do.
I feel that AK is at no fault. AK shouldn't have to say anything, especially on this blog. Don't put yourself in a hole by saying anything. The logical thing is for the U13s to play EP in the final. No questions and no doubts.
11:11 - you like to use the word "they", all I've ever read is "he". what is your desire to penalize a bunch of U13 girls. Like the previous poster commented, it makes us all question your motives and desires (if you are an EP parent, there is nothing wrong with just coming out and saying that you would like a pass straight to regionals).
Milwaukee Madison senior Johntell Franklin, a captain on the boys' basketball team, lost his mom, Carlitha, to cancer on Feb. 7.
Madison had a game that night against DeKalb (Ill.), which traveled about 2 1/2 hours for the game.
Here is the chain of events, reported in Milwaukee's Journal Sentinel:
Madison coach Aaron Womack Jr. asked Franklin if the game should be postponed. Franklin said no. DeKalb coach Dave Rohlman offered to call the game. The game started, and Franklin arrived at the gym in the second quarter.
"A few seconds after I spotted Johntell, all the people in the stands did, too. They surrounded him. The players, his friends in the stands, the cheerleaders," Womack told the Journal Sentinel.
"Then came another surprise: Franklin didn't just want to watch. He wanted to play," the Journal Sentinel reported.
But there was a problem. Womack didn't put Franklin's name in the official scorebook. Adding a name in the scorebook after the game has started results in a technical foul. DeKalb didn't want the free throws, considering the circumstances but rules are rules. So DeKalb's Darius McNeal intentionally missed both free throws.
"I did it for the guy who lost his mom," McNeal told the paper. "It was the right thing to do."
So touched by DeKalb's compassion, Womack wrote a letter to the editor at the Daily Chronicle in DeKalb.
"I was overwhelmed with this display of almost unheard of sportsmanship and class. As I mentioned the game was close, and any opportunity for a score would be very beneficial. As a principal, school, school district staff, and community you should all feel immense pride for the remarkable job that the coaching staff is doing in not only coaching these young men, but teaching them how to be leaders," Womack wrote.
11:00 am, Not sure what your intent was to reference these teams? (U15 girls & U13 boys) All of these players have worked very hard to get into the finals and do not deserve having their intergrity questioned or their efforts minimized by comparing their games to the one on Sunday. I just hope parents that are anti-MTA rememeber that these players are just impressionable teenagers playing a sport that they love and do not deserve to hear any of the innuendos that I've been reading on this blog. Punish those that are found to have broken the rules, let the others from the organization enjoy this experience.
Did someone's parent on the 13 team die? Let's reach a bit more someday aliens might invade us and we'll want the strongest team (decided by the soccer god) to be there fighting the dreaded beasts. Therefore I'll rig the outcome of a soccer game.
11:20 A well known fact, really. Do you know any of those people personally? have you ever worked with them? do you have any clue what those so called, in it for themselves make financially compared to DOC's at other clubs?
Please give us the facts of how they are in it for themselves. If you are just going to say, it's all about $$, good try come up with something new and is actually factual.
11:11 here. Fine you are all entitled to your opinions. I disagree and feel highly confident by the several items around the two individuals relationship, the fact that hey both are integral parts of the club, That AK's team experience when they were U-12's was the sole reason for the two having allegedly discussed this as an option, the fact that MA's blog intimates that this was the way he/they would handle the situation if it happenned again, the fact that they atre both directors and would benefit from the advancement of the team most likely to beat EP and move onto regionals, and the fact that the two are very good friends who live for youth soccer hence it is a big part of their lives and likely a big part of their day to day discussions.
Because of the above I think AK was in the loop on this.
So lets say AK comes on here and says he knew nothing about MA's intentions except for the conversation MA had with him a year ago after AK's team won in PK's. Would you believe him? Probably not, most of you are putting him in the guilt by association category, therefor he has no defense and is guilty no matter what. Is that fair? It does not matter what AK says or does for most of you he is guilty and should be punished. MA has said all along it was his decision and he was wrong but you still want to blame AK because he is friends and works with MA. Not fair to AK, but he has no chance with most of you who want to see MTA fail.
You do realize the amazing English Channel leap you are making with that basketball story (which is very touching by the way) and what occurred in this game that is being hammered to death.
11:32 - you are spot on that they (u13/15) don't deserve to have their integrity questioned, that's my point. given the circumstances (same club, same situation) is it unreasonable? my point was exactly that MTA should nip this in the bud to end it. simply, we at MTA have reviewed the situation and our opinion and position is such...our coaches have been instructed...end of story.
11:37 - I can fully understand how you could connect those dots. However, in a situation where the potential consequences could have quite an impact on a bunch of U13 girls (or any team for that matter) who have worked and sacrificed all year, wouldn't it be better to have the facts instead of your assumptions and conclusions? Shouldn't the dots be connected with solid black ink lines and not just dots drawn in pencil?
My opinion sides with yours, that I believe Andy had to know based on his relationship with Mark. I form this opinion on what I know about coaching friends sharing ideas and thoughts.
Could a coach stopped the other team's action? From Kick 2-5 Yep I believe so. How? When he saw the first deliberate PK being casually taken, a simple - NO NO NO NO THIS IS NOT RIGHT.
Bringing the action completely into the spotlight and calling everyone's attention to what is going on and that you are not please with it. Minimum, you at least disassociate yourself from the cheating. It might have changed Mark's mind at that point but that is pure speculation
I am not a parent of either team or any team that is in question, I know both coaches, through clinics, And I actually as a person like both coaches as people. I however think this is poor sportsmanship to fix a game. I have no affiliation with MTA or and other club thats in question I just enjoy soccer and watch both the Thunder and the English games. What MA did and AK did was not right it put the club before the kids and it should be the other way around. Kids are first and formost and so now because of these coaches actions the kids are going to be the ones that suffer. MYSA legally would have the right if you read the rules to knock out because of the director status all MTA groups, I would hope that they dont that is totally unfair. However they should be knocking out in my opinion both the 13 and the 12 year olds because of the affiliation with the club and both being directors.
So many here seem certain - but really, do any of us know how we would react in any given situation, with emotions in turmoil, an adrenaline rush, etc. It's one thing to theorize situations and another to actually face and deal with them in a split second. I know that many of us would like to believe that we would always make the "right" choice. But how many times have we looked back and wished we could have handled the situation differently.
tomASS I completely and utterly do NOT believe you that you would have barged onto the field to "stop the travesty."
1) you have NO RIGHT to tell another coach or team how to conduct themselves, even if you don't like it 2) Assuming before hand you DID know, as you seem to be claiming about AK (even though you openly call it an assumption, and though some would like to, you can't "convict" based on assumptions) what exactly would you have done, told your team to miss their PKs also????? At that point aren't you doing the EXACT SAME THING, artifically influencing the results?
You can claim you would have screamed NO NO NO all you want to, but the bottom line is THERE... IS... LITERALLY... NOTHING... AK... COULD... HAVE... DONE.
There is no counter argument. I'm getting so sick of the sanctimonious preaching on here. Its so transparent its not even funny.
AK is seems to be doing everything absolutely RIGHT in this whole mess, first his team conducts themselves exactly as they should - by taking care of their own business regardless of what the other team is doing, and second by staying miles away from this ridiculous forum. AK, if you are reading this, don't even think about posting in this wasteland if bias and hypocrisy.
tomass - so what you are now saying is that you do believe that AK knew, then per the rules, both teams should forfeit (contradicts your post from 11:11 yesterday) or that his fault is not intervening? In the heat of the battle like that, watching from the sidelines 40 yards away, I wish I could have that clarity and reaction skills that you think AK should.
I believe the best thing for MTA to do is to remove the 13s from the tournament (the 12s are already out) and suspend both coaches. Send them home and tell them "see you at tryouts." That would send a message that they are serious about this situation.
Before everyone says "it's not the kids fault" or "the 13s did nothing" or "AK had nothing to do with this" or "there's nothing AK could do about it"... MAs comments on RTR make it clear AK knew.
tomass makes a solid point there was a lot AK could do; scream, tell MA it wasn't right, call over the ref.
And it would be unfortunate for the kids, but that's reality and a teachable moment for them. People actions have consequences; sometime those choices affect a lot of people.
The rules are clear and both teams should be disqualified.
12:13 He answered about 10 posts asking "if you were in that position explain how you would have handled this" Then he pipes in how he would have responded and you attack him.
I love how in typical MTA fashion everyone who disagrees with the MTA line is wrong. Your thoughts that there was literally nothing he could have done is silly. First thing he could have done is to TRY to do something. Like what TOMASS indicated. whether succesful or not we will never know because he NEVER TRIED. MA is his good friend and he was standing within 20 yards of him on the sidelines, he never tried because he must have felt it was OK. This argument is going nowhere with you and yours is going nowhere with me. I guess I am seeing this as a ton of what some may say is circumstantial (sp?)evidence all lining up saying he did know and you feel the "hard evidence" supports that it can't be proven.
What should happen is both teams disqualified and the next in those two brackets should play this weekend and the winner of that team play against EP. That would be the most logical. Should there be a walk by EP no, but because of the actions of the coaches they should be disqualified from this tournament. Its just that a tournament. Those that win go further. Those that cheat and get caught are disqualified. To fix a tournament is just that cheating and should lead to disqualification. Both being directors from the same club, fixing results both should be held to blame. As far as there jobs go that should be up to MTA if they want these two on there coaching staff. But as far as the tournament goes that is up to MYSA.
TomASS, O how I have missed thee! 12:13 apparently hasn't been around here long enough to know that TomASS would have run (OK, maybe hobbled due to his bum knees) on that field and declared foul! Did they finally get WiFi at Brit's? Cheers!
your reaction tells me you are not a soccer coach. pardon me if I am wrong.
it also tells me you never played the game, because you can tell when some one is serious about taking PKs
You don't know me very well, because I would have gotten in the other coach's face and not tolerated what was going on after the first PK. When it comes to cheating during the game I feel I would have every right to call a coach out.
I would not have let the game continue until there was an agreement between the coaches that there would be no more cheating and giving the game away. I would have made sure that his players would have heard why this shouldn't be done. If it continued I would have pulled my team from the field. As I said earlier if it is worth winning it should be worth earning.
Of course I would have done nothing if I knew and agreed with what was going on.
Man, nothing like 5 years of pent-up Bangu/MTA frustration all coming out in two days. It's like being in the on deck circle against the Twins lately, the bloggers are fighting over who gets to sharpen the guillotine. I'd say get it out of your system, but two years from now there will still be folks bringing up back up.
tomASS - sounds like you've come full circle from your comments from yesterday at 11:11. I am making an assumption into your thought process (similar to your conclusions in regards to the coach) that you firmly believe AK knew. If so, how could both teams not have to forfeit (completely contradicts your earlier statement)?
if you would have gotten in his face then your name fits you. This is all so stupid. If they had truly conspired to "fix" this game it never would have gotten to PKs.
TomASS - you DON'T have that right, and the fact you think you do shows your own arrogance. You don't get to coach other people's teams. You don't get to tell other people how to run their businesses. period.
you're right. I don't coach and have never played - thats why I hang out on soccer blogs, because I like talking about sports I have nothing to do with.
Tick Tock 1215 Yesterday I did not offer an opinion, I stated that AK was the only one who really knew. Which is still true
Today I offered an opinion. He still is the only one who really knows, but If I was to make any conclusion as an outsider looking in, I believe he probably knew, and did not want to go against Mark's wishes.
Even If I think both were involved, I don't think the rule should be applied to these young players under the control of these two coaches. One of the two teams deserved to move forward so why make both teams forfeit because of the action of the adults. If the u13 MTA team beats EP they will be wearing the tarnish of what occurred the rest of the tourney. I don't believe EP wants to be handed anything.
I would take action against the coaches
I would then take action against the club and not allow them any state cup girl team entries next year at the U13 level
This recommendation - does not penalize the players...until next year. It penalizes the coaches, and then it penalizes the club at the age and gender they should have had more oversight at.
The solution is simple. Restrict entry into the State Cup to one team per club. This means MTA would not get more than one bite at the apple. Some of the MTA white/pink/yellow/purple players may choose to return too their CC team. Those players are primarily a revenue stream anyways, so MTA can offer financial assistance to the talented players they recruit. If your son/daughter is truly a gifted player, the MTA Blue coaches will find them
TomASS the only part I disagree with on your last post is that you would let the MTA 13 team play. If AK did know about the plan,As I think he did, then by rule (not opinion) they must be disqualified. See several above posts that have pasted in the rule. I believe the seriousness of this violation requires strict enforcement of the RULE. Sad truth is the players will suffer for the foolish acts of these coaches. Very tough lesson indeed.
12:54 "If they had truly conspired to "fix" this game it never would have gotten to PKs" Please read the posts above and you will see that this is exactly the way the MA's blog info says they would have handled it. If one wins prior to a shoot out then so be it, if however it gets to PK's let the 13's win. Really if you think about it that makes the most sense if MA's heart was in the right spot only because shootouts are really not the best indicator of the better team, only the five best shooters on a team.
People are overlooking the fact that MA made this decision because it was in the best interest of his team, the club, and the state. Who are we to disagree?
People have mentioned that his actions were against the rules. Well, then the rules need to be changed. I never liked PKs as a way of determining a winner anyway. From now on I propose FIFA instills the Abboud rule; if a game ends in a time, OT will be played. If no winner is clear after OT, then the coaches will decide the winner.
No wait, most coaches are not worthy, and would only have their own selfish interests at heart. Amend that to read "if no winner is decided after OT, then MA will decide the winner".
Here is the rule, I don't see replay of the match as an option.
Page 28 of Championship Rules. Maybe MTA/MA should have checked into it:
"...If the Minnesota State Cup Director and Administrative Committee determines that a particular action by a team or any of its players, coaches, team officials or spectators is deemed unacceptable for any reason, the team may be disqualified, sanctioned, requested to play another qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance, and/or face forfeiture of one or more games. Examples of such action include, but are not limited to: suspected forfeiture or otherwise determining the outcome of a game with the design or purpose of controlling the advancement of any team from its own group or any other group, intentionally losing a game, or unnecessarily running a score up for no purpose other than to humiliate opponents...."
There can't be any excuse for a coach manipulating tournament results. Hopefully appropriate matches can be arranged to send the Minnesota's best players to Regionals.
110 - I will concede that the rules may need to be enforced as written. But typically intent is such a key in determining how wrong an action is.
I would have less problem with making an older group forfeit. Just my common sense tells me the lesson could be learned equally as well without enforcing the letter of the law.
It all boils down to one simple thing. Throwing a game is NEVER okay. Regardless of whether the motive was noble or manipulative, players deserve impeccable ethics and sportsmanship from their coaches. The U12 coach seems to realize the seriousness of his mistake, has admitted it, and apologized. http://www.roadtoregionals.com/97-journal/week/2009-05-17-to-2009-05-23 That is a step in the right direction, but does not make the problem go away. Manipulating tournament results can NEVER be tolerated. Hopefully there will be individual consequences that reflect the gravity of the offense, while considering positive contributions the coach continues to make toward youth development. I am cautiously optimistic tournament games can still results in sending the best players to Regionals. …rather than succumb to all the noise, emotion, and old haters club eagerness for sweeping vengeance.
1:18 I would be the part that says, "...requested to play another qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance"
I'm sorry. I must have missed something. Mark Abboud is paying Andy Kaasa to run his business? hmmmm. I don't quite get that one.
the bias and hypocrisy I think best describes this entire blog, not necessarily you tomASS. Though you do seem to be wading into that pool here. I've never heard anyone describe this whole blog better than that.
you're "morally" wrong, because despite all your powerful evidence (insert sarcasm here) based on what are admittedly assumptions, there is still no proof AK had complicity in this act. You're convicting him because he didn't run around on the field and act like a moron, which seems to be the course of action you were suggesting?
Its sanctimonious to pass judgment without facts. You don't seem to have any evidence at all, just inferences. This, by the way, also indicates bias.
We can dream of a world where kids would be genuinely proud of what their parent’s post, and how they behave at events. I personally still need to improve, but we can dream...
A coach with the highest level of integrity would not allow the result, he or she would withdraw their team saying they would not take a tainted result
Rather than punish his players, perhpas that high integrity coach could simply seek a match against an opponent who would fight to the finish. The rules allow for that...
One coach screwed up badly, no question about that. Now people want to penalize the opponent who did nothing wrong? And on top of that penalize another team of girls the following year? Get a grip people...use some common sense.
Tock-Tick 123 - never convicted him, offered an opinion of what I thought. Circumstantial evidence when served in significant portions does end up convicting many. Your statement would be more convincing if there was any evidence to at least indicate options that he knew nothing about what was going to take place.
I do not know Andy. I have no bias against him. I do have bias against cheaters. I hope for his sake he didn't know
133 - it would be penalizing the U12 team that cheated this year next year They have time to decide if the MTA program provides them more than just the road to regionals.
It would penalize the club for not establishing higher standards and thinking things through when you have as many teams as they did in this one group that situations could arise.
From what I've heard the club does have a coach's code of ethics in place. You can't be at every game every minute monitoring over 100 coaches involved in a club. What the club can do is sanction the offending coach along with MYSA sanctions.
Let's give the club time to act of this. It will be interesting to see their course of action. I don't think MYSA has weighed in on this yet either. Both of the organizations have volunteers running things and it takes time to get together to sort through an issue like this. It's not like these people are full time soccer employees.
The U15 Girls final looks like a close matchup, with MTA Blue vs White. The teams have a history of games being decided by one goal or PKs. Not sure how many starters are dinged up on either side, but resting a couple injured players could make for a close finish again.
Burnsville is a great team as is the MTA team. Having seen them both play, I'd have to say it's going to depend on who plays more physically. Neither team has looked good when bumped hard. I'd have to lean toward MTA based on their mid-field play. Predict MTA 3-2 in OT.
I saw MTA get bumped around pretty good last week against EP. They looked pretty good with a 5-0 halftime lead. I'd also say MTA stood their ground well against a very phyisical EP team that got the short end of the stick on the physical play. They had so many girls have to come out of the game that it ended early. And the refs seemed to always make the calls in MTA's favor.
No I am not an MTA parent, I am an EP parent and was impressed with MTA's team after that game.
I think MTA wins that game 3-0 and I wish them luck at regionals.
I hope you re all correct and there is a clear winner.Both are good teams capable of doing well at regionals.i d hate to see it come down to pks, MA and AK would have another gut wrenching decision, deciding who would rep. minn.
The Burnsville / MTA game will be 1-0, one way or the other. They have played once (NSC last year) with a 0-0 game that ended in MTA winning a shootout. Both teams are better now. Both teams are strong defensively so I wouldn't expect a bunch of goals either way. Assuming weather isnt an issue, this will be a good 1-0 game (or shootout). Both teams performed about as well in MRL and neither team has surrender more than 1 goal in any game that I can tell. There are friends on both teams that know each other and the coaches are both solid. This will be a fair, even game. Whoever gets the break will win.
Just a comment on officiating so far. We U15 parents haven't been thrilled with all the calls, but darn the crews have been in good position. That sure makes it hard to argue from camp chair. Grrr.. (Good job so far refs - Keep 'em safe please)
The U16 game will be a snoozer. The actual championship game was last Saturday where EP beat SSM 1-0. These two teams play 10 times you get 2 ties and 4 wins each way.
SCV barely was able to handle a devastated MTA Blue team, they won't have enough for EP.
The way the brackets worked out is a shame, but it is what it is. Good luck to EP at Regionals!
I actually think the U14 game will be a snoozer. There is no way MTA can play with Burnsville's speedy forward, excellent midfielder, and strong defense.
9:24, that is good one. so mta's team is going to get beat by one forward, one midfielder and their defense. Really, what about the other 6 players on the team?? Your basically saying that the rest of the team is no good. To me that says advantage MTA. In the end it will come down to coaching and TE could not coach his way out of a wet paper sack.
Yuor SSM U16s are Highly overrated.And as far as SCV goes, weren't they ahead of EP 2-0 at the half. Take it somewhere else with your excuses you pathetic Blue team parent.
1) Every team has its strengths and weaknesses. MTA does not have 11 solid players and no holes. So to say that the other six are no good is a stretch.
2) TE is probably the best coach in the state at this age group. The MTA coach pales in comparison. TE has watched MTA play numerous times, taking time out of his own schedule to do so. I'm sure he knows exactly how to play them. There is no way Burnsville doesn't have the edge at coaching with such dedication on TE's part.
NSC Cup U19 girls bracket looks interesting, pre State Cup game Sunday morning between MTA 90 Blue and North Metro, any predictions? (my feeble attempt at changing the subject back to soccer)
The coach for the MTA U14 team is probably one of the better coaches in the state. He has that team playing at a higher level than ever before. He is the third coach in the past 3 years for that team. He has exceeded what even AK could do with that team.
If it comes down to coaching, MTA has the advantage. That said, it's up to the girls on the field and I believe MTA has a more well rounded team and should come out on top by 2.
Before all of you crazed soccer-moms accuse me of being with MTA, let me just make it clear that I do not like them anymore than any other person in this country.
I am a Tonka parent, and having played both MTA and Burnsville, I have strongly believe MTA's defense, midfield, and forward lines are all extremely strong. There were no holes to be found. It is quite obvious these girls live for soccer. Their starting 11 are without question the strongest in the state. Sad to say.
Someone needs to show them they are NOT unbeatable. But, (sigh) this is not very likely.
Best of luck to Burnsville, I'll be rooting for you!
42 MN State Cup Champions, 47 MN State Cup Finalists, 3 Region II Champions 2 Region II Finalists 2 USYSA National Finalists 1 US Club Soccer National Finals
I am a U14 EP parent and we played MTA in the semi finals. I agree with half of what you said. I part ways when you root against MTA. I am rooting for them. They played our girls well and beat my daughter's team 6-0. I thought they we good sports in the process, their coach was even willing to pull a player off the field when our team went down a player due to injury. They were well ahead at half time and they did not run up the score.
I for one think they are the top team in the state and that is who I believe should represent MN at regionals, so good luck MTA.
Anon. 225: I agree completely. MTA was in my daughter's bracket and the score was 6 0 (MTA) at halftime. They were exceptional sports about it by not running up the score at all in the second half. They were obviously the better team, and I did not see any negative attitudes in them that people seem to be convinced MTA players have. They were goofy, dancing in the middle of the game. And apologizing sincerely when they hurt one of our players. It was fun to watch.
I agree with both of you and I believe it is a reflection of their coach. He's a class act all the way and I think teams can take on the personality of their coach.
Good luck to both teams at U14, but I think MTA is the favorite.
This blog is so full of MTA. EP and Tonka parents coming to the aid of MTA, complimenting teams that win semi final games by lack of interest, good sportsmanship keeping the score under 6. Your kidding.....right?
If both teams win their semis this morning there will be an interesting game this afternoon between MTA 18 Blue and MTA 19 Blue at NSC Cup. Both teams will be disorganized, the 18's are missing 7-8 players and guesting some to fill in. The 19's are playing their first games together since returning from college. Still, lots of talent on field and should be a competititive game.
1,384 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1001 – 1200 of 1384 Newer› Newest»The bottom line is it was a form of cheating. Yup,cheating in youth soccer. That tells you all you need to know about the coaches and MTA.Now we'll see just what the Thunder is made of. Pretty sad.
Westsider
103: yes he has and i was very disappointed when he had to leave.
How could an ex-professional player and current professional coach imagine that anything good could come from fixing the results of a shootout in any game, let alone a state cup semifinal game against "older sisters" from his own club? Though I'm certainly no expert, I have to believe that he's exposed himself, his players, his team, and his club to severe and long-lasting sanctions.
thanks for your two cents Westsider. seen any good SSM players lately?
4:46,
The only person at fault here is MA.
Why would you penalize other innocent players and coaches?
Please explain.
It's called collusion. If AK knew about this before hand, as it appears he did, he should share in the responsibility.
It appears that he was willing to live with the consequences when he thought they would benefit his team; he now needs to live with the negative consequences as well.
I like AK as a person and admire him as a coach. He is, however, an adult (not a helpless child as some of you make out), and as such needs to take some responsibility.
509, Ak knew that MA was going to do something to change the outcome of the game. Ak had a small role in this and is not innocent. I would respect him a lot more if he would come forward and take responsiblity for his lack of actions.
5:17,
Let's say hypothetically AK knew Abboud "might" do this.
What could he have done to stop Abboud's players from following their coaches orders?
so what should he have done when the first player rolled the ball to the goalie in the shootout?
5:20 - both the ref and AK should have approached MA and ask what's up.
Does anybody know if the Thunder ownership have been notified about this scandal.
"Does anybody know if the Thunder ownership have been notified about this scandal."
dumbest question/comment so far
5:20,
And that wouldn't have been obvious until the 2nd time the ball was passed to the GK. Too late to fix the situation. The damage was done.
I wouldn't blame the ref. He was probably too stunned to think.
5:39,
It's obvious a lot of the bashers aren't rocket scientists.
I know - especially the comment to punish the U12 players - what are you going to do? Take away their Webkins? Change their curfew from 9:00 to 8:30? Not let them go trick or treating next year?
Anyone care to fill us in on what happened between the MTA U-12's last year (this year's U-13 team in question) in the U-13 semifinal against Tonka? Something about additional time put back on the clock late in the 2nd half of a 1-0 Tonka game? Don't know if this is true, but I heard if John Tudor wasn't the old pro that he is, that game would have been protested by Tonka. Maybe it helped him consider his retitrement just two months later?
anon 629 - the ref always manages the time on the field and can add time where he/she sees fit based on substitutions, injuries, or perceived petty time wasting.
5/20 5:39
Why do you think it's a dumb question?
Wayne
when is mysa going to comment or rule on this?
lc
Oh great, Tom is on this blog. First, thanks for your efforts with State Cup thus far. Second, don't listen to any yahoo on this site calling for more blood than is needed.
Wayne, does anyone know if the EPSC has been notified of your reckless disregard of the MYSA tryout policy? Wonder if the EPHS or MSHSL know about the threats you've made regarding HS playing time to girls who choose to leave your club?
Let he who hath not sinned...
Mrs Robinson are you trying to seduce me? Your response would lead me to believe so. Good Post. Westsider you too, but I don't want you even thinking about that seduction comment.
My two cents and I am sure I will have change coming back.
1) The players or teams should not be punished. They have been punished enough by how they see adults acting in a game that should belong to them.
2) Mark Abboud has admitted fault. He has admitted his wrong doing and regrets it. So here the club, the MYSA, and the state cup can deal in facts and punish a coach who fixed a game's outcome. They can decide his punishment. Someone suggested a lifetime ban. That punishment does not fit the "crime". It is too severe. I do believe how the game's outcome was manipulated disgraces the game itself and is as severe if not more so than using illegal players. Make a decision quickly and do it with a meaningful penalty. No further point in discussing the matter. He cheated, he disgraced the game, he admits his mistake, he has lost considerable credibility, and he is willing to take his punishment like a man. Mark forgot the game is bigger than he or his club is. Any special, emergency meetings at the MYSA called tonight?
3) AK - we can speculate all we want. Only he can tell the powers to be what he knew and what he allowed to happen. He is the one that has to live with what he tells the soccer powers.
4) I think Wayne asks a good question- We don't know how the MTA operates and if they are so closely tied with the Thunder, what is the MTA doing to make sure that all parties are aware of what occurred and how they are handling it. Another question is. "has MTA notified their major sponsor Nike to limit damage control. If I am Nike and MTA touts themselves as being the only Nike premier team in the state, and there is this controversy , I am inquiring what action is being taken.
4) I would believe EP would want to play the best team possible. What's the point of winning the prize if you can't compete against the best competition. Of course any thing any MTA team does in this age bracket this year is tarnished. That is a shame for the kids based upon an adult action.
5) Impressed the Ref bitching has been held to low roar.
6) I like M!M! - carry on, keep up being blunt and calling them as you see them
7) Sheiki is not a racist. You PC liberal loons need to get over yourself and not be afraid to have candid conversations about race and facts of life. Just because you don't like or agree with what someone says or how he presents his argument does not make him a racist. Easy comment to make when you can't debate a subject on its facts.
8) good to see this blog is like watching TV land - the same reruns of subjects, bitching, and whining. I do wish mn futbol would make everyone take monikers to help with knowing who said what so better discussions can take place and be followed.
9) MYSA will put Tom M out there in the wind to make a decision.If it is a bad one, they will let him take the blame. If the commoners like it the MYSA bureaucrats will take the credit. MYSA lacks soccer leadership and doing the right common sense thing.
of course everything stated here is just my opinion
Enjoy your season everyone! Ciao
Hey, 1100 anon coward.
reckless disregard for the MYSA tryout policy?
laughable even before a beer.
I have worked and conducted training session during this week long camp. If the kids are trying out they sure don't know it because all I have seen is a group of EP soccer players of all ages and sizes having a great time all week long and enjoying the game of soccer in a camp setting - learning and improving their game.
Maybe your club should try it eh. Nice religious overtone, I personally like an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth especially in my playing days ;-)
From MA’s blog:
"I didn't play to lose the game. I didn't sit back and have our girls in a defensive formation..."
Wow. This guy really sells the kool-aid to the parents. I appreciate MA’s willingness to be candid and it really shows his passion and knowledge, but don’t take advantage of parents who don’t know anything by twisting your words. Playing defensive isn't playing to lose. It's playing to beat a stronger team. He even previously mentions that he knows this in his blog. Playing his "normal" style was essentially playing to lose (which he was quietly hoping would happen from the start).
Outside of that, MA seems sincerely remorseful. He clearly likes the game and the kids. I hope he learns his lesson and doesn't continue to sell kool-aid to his team in e-mails and in week-long player discussions which is probably making things worse.
What a mess.
Funny how short memories are. People forget that M.C. (Director of MTA girls) was removed from Holy Angels years ago for some shady financial handling of the Star Dome and for his inappropriate approach to coaching high school girls. MTA may have some leadership issues.
I think everyone consumed with ruining these two coaches over a decision about a kids soccer game should get a life and move on!!! This is not the World Cup they are 12 and 13.
MC - Fired from HA in 2003
MA - Throwing a game at State Cup
BG and JN - Staging a "tie" at State Cup about 7-8 years ago so both teams would move on.
All current MTA coaches.
8:55 I think if this had been EP or DKT REV you'd be talkin' out the other side of your mouth. All the kids in the 13 bracket, all the tournament participants all the workers were affected by this. Mostly another "black eye" for Mn soccer delivered to us.
I'm scratching my head over this one. How did this effect anyone other than the teams involved. In my view, this is an internal matter for MTA and MYSA. I'm sure it will be handled by them. Until they announce something, nothing anyone says on this blog will change what happened.
The championship games are a little more than a week away, I'm sure there's a lot to be said about those games. A lot of girls worked hard to get where they are, maybe it's time to focus on them.
WH threatened his club players with not making his HS team if they decided to move to another soccer club.
Some people have short memories. This is an obvious breach of ethics. Isn't it?
Is WH still employed by that club and HS?
Food for thought.....
and the MC history at AHA is relevant here how? you're just proving your nothing but a MTA rock thrower and don't bend to any reason or rational thought.
9:20 - conversely, the current AHA coach (who by the way is a trainer for MTA)told his star HS player she should leave MTA and join Woodbury (JE's U17 team) if it truly was in the best interest of her development as a player, and the best choice for her family. Incidentally that's the road she picked. The coach wasn't fired from MTA or anything (gasp), her little sister still plays for MTA and wasn't cut or anything (gasp)
Just thought I'd throw one example out there that not everyone at MTA is "ethically challenged."
How is DREV affected by all of this when they did not get out of their pool? Not even completely sure how this affects EP. IMO, this whole incident impacts the two teams involved.
It's like MTA is a wounded fish and all the sharks out there are in a frothed up feeding frenzy.
8:55,
I think it's the bloggers that realize this isn't the World Cup. It's the MTA Clowns that think this is the World Cup (or maybe the Serie A) where they will go as far as match fixing. We're mad as heck and we're not gonna take it anymore!)
9:19 has a good point. This only involves the MTA clown show. So nobody else should really care. But it's fun to analyze and to read about in the STrib. For soccer in MN, no press is bad press.
so the true colors of mama mia are now plain and clear for everyone to see.......
9:19 Are you serious? This was a State Cup semi final game. Two coaches (and directors) from the same club took it upon themselves to play God and determine who should advance to play against EP. They clearly chose the team they felt was better hence, have put EP in a position that they may have otherwise not been subjected too. Can EP play with either team, probably, but other than just giving the State Cup title to EP, or having them play against the next best team for the title , this State Cup title will be a farse (if MTA wins the game).
Now move it a step further, Lets say they let the MTA 13's play and they advance to regionals, and somehow upset a really strong team in the early rounds, we will never know if the true regional champ is the true regional champ. It's kind of like in baseball after there is an error in an inning all of the following runs are considered unearned. Reason, had the fielder made the out the runs may have never happenned.
The rule as copied and pasted here several times looks clear that the 13's from MTA should be disqualified from further contention because their coach was aware of the act the other teams coach was about to do. It was an effort to manipulate the system by two individuals who are both directors of the club that the two teams represent. Both coaches have something to gain by putting the stronger team to the finals because both have a vested interest in the success of the club. The very unfortunate thing here iis that they put the club infront of the players and somehow managed to convince themselves that this was OK. It is not OK and appropriate penalties must apply to avoid future coaches,directors etc. from pulling similarly boneheaded moves in the future.
9:40 - as has been requested numerous times regarding this subject, please provide the confirmation that, per your own words, "their coach was aware of the act the other teams coach was about to do. It was an effort to manipulate the system by two individuals who are both directors of the club that the two teams represent." Personally, I am quite tired of the insinuations and assumptions. You seem quite sure of yourself so I am also sure you can respond back fairly quickly with the details.
If both coaches were *really* involved in the decision, MYSA should give EP the championship through a forfeit.
Could someone please tell me how this affects EP? Wouldn't they have had to play the winner regardless of how the game ended? If they win, then they deserve to go to regionals, if they lose, then they stay home.
Wow do you people have nothing better to do than sit on a blog and complain. People make mistakes in life and complaining and wanting to hurt others is not going to change the mistake. As adults you should be talking with your kids about this, helping them learn from this situation and move on in life. Life is too short to be sitting around complaining about a situation you have no control over. Morals, values and the way your children grow up start at home. So let go and enjoy life.
9:52 - LOL, and what are you doing with your life??
I guess there is no chance to switch the conversation to talk about a preview of the games coming up on the fields. maybe that will occur late next week
9:52 Forgiving the guilty is fine, and I will, however to forgive (a morals based decision) is completely different than being sure the rules are adhered too. Rules were violated and punishment must be given otherwise rules will not ever be followed. You speaking of looking out for the best interest of your child should know this.
9:49 here, to 9:40 and all the other "9:40's" out there....still waiting.....
10:03 - I think we are all in agreement with you on the fact that rules need to be followed and adhered to, if not, why have them. The bigger issue seems to be a rush to judgment by many without all the facts, knowledge, and details. Did the U12 coach break the rules - yes, and he has admitted it. What hasn't been confirmed is if the U13 coach did.
Sounds like 1003 formerly 949 needs a watch to keep up with this thread in order to find his 940
Has anyone noticed that AK has not come onto the board and not said one way or the other that he wasnt aware as to what went on that day. From other posts that ive read hes been on here before. Why hasnt he spoken up on here and said hey guys i knew nothing about what MA was was doing he did it on his own. He has kept his mouth closed my guess for good reason.
9:49 Please read the blog info posted several times that the two coaches had previously discussed this senerio and how they would handle if the situation ever came up. The worst thing the MTA gang could try to do here is try to wiggle out of this mess. They broke some rules, they need to go above and beyond to rectify the situation. I am stunned that the Minnesota Thunder board has not come out with a strong statement of self imposed penalties. The longer they try to play technicalities and attempt to sweep this under the rug the more likely this blows up even more. It is posted on MA's blog that this was the intent as discussed by the two directors/coaches in question. It seems the best thing for MTA, The Minnesota Thunder, and Minnesota soccer is for the guilty parties to accept thier penalties,ask forgiveness and get past this. That unfortunately however means that the U-13 girls have to pay a stiff price for their coach's and club directors bad decisions. Of course this is just my interpretation of the rules and my opinion.
great tomASS is back, hockey season must be over......
maybe we should introduce tomASS to SSMSC and they could pontificate amongst themselves.....
I wouldn't come on and speak either with all the hatin goin on!!!! We are all human.
He doesn't owe us an explanation. He only owes it to the soccer powers he needs to report to and to his players.
9:49 obviously is not thinking about the kids involved in this mess but there own selfishness what ever that it. Are you from EP:):)
I think if you read the exBoard email that was sent to club(very vague). That all directors and board members are staying quiet until all the facts, penalties and sanctions are in place. The exception being MA who cannot keep quiet because it is his a** on the line.
actually, 9:49, if you read the posts, MA states how "he" would have handled it differently in his conversations with AK. Big difference - tough to wiggle out of something you aren't trapped in. But as you state, this is just your opinion.
People can discuss all kinds of scenarios and possibilities.
To actually think someone would throw a game in this fashion is stretching the imagination.
By the time the girls on the field actually passed the ball to the opposing GK when they took their PK it was too late.
There was nothing the U13 coach or players could do. The situation was not in their control.
Penalizing or sanctioning a team that did nothing wrong and couldn't control the situation is absurd.
I came back for some low-brow conversation, to find my inner self
hockey season is never over. much like soccer
The fodder on here was too good to pass up.
I'm just meandering through, carry on
the grassy knoll...............
man on the moon?...............
TWA flight out of NYC..........
9/11...........................
you can now add AK's role to the list..............
tomASS - if you are looking to be "dumbed-down" then you came to the right place.
agree with you or disagree with you, at least you state your opinions based off of reason and your beliefs, and then stand behind them.
they'll be sneakier aboud it next time,
and there will be a next time.
AK wasn't in control of the opposing team.
The girls who took the PKs on the U12 team took their direction from MA.
AK could do nothing to stop what his opponent's players did on the field.
10:28 I have some wonderful swamp land in Florida. Are you interested?
1018 - I agree the U13 girls did nothing wrong.
As a coach, the last thing I would ever want any team or individual to do is to literally hand me a win that was not earned. I personally can't imagine standing there watching what transpired and not trying to stop it some how, some way.
but that is me, I have a big mouth and strong personality.
I don't know what was going though AK's head.
1026 - thank you
I'm feeling better already
As a parent with several children in the MTA organization, I am questioning the integrity of the club.
One child is in the finals against another MTA team that clearly has better talent and would represent the state better at regions, in my opinion. If the two teams played 10 times, the better team would win 8 of them.
Now I'm wondering if it happened once, can it happen again?
How about next time a team uses an illegal player, they win State Cup, get found out, I want to be sure all the MTA apologists come on here and plead not to take the championship away because of the effects on the children.
10:30,
So tell us what you would have done.
What could you have done once the opponent passed the ball to your GK?
We won't hold our breath waiting for your answer.
addendum to 10:38 it's a scenario not an accusation. Sorry I did not make that clear
No horse in the race here but the most logical solution here is to have the second place team from the U12's group (PL) play the 13's for a chance to play EP, then all the drama can be focused on MA and we'll have a true regional participant from one of three teams.
There are obviously two sides or beliefs to this event:
1) those who are convinced that both MA & AK were in on this together.
2) those who believe that it was MA's actions alone.
Not sure we'll ever know.
10:48,
It appears that there is also a group that believe even if AK was aware that MA had speculated about possibly doing this there was nothing AK's team could do to stop the opposing team from obeying their coach.
I think were all in unison that its not the kids fault but more the coach. However, the coaches represent the team. And the rules clearly state you can't fix the results. So therefore both teams should be disqualified. Its to bad for the kids sake that two coaches had to put there organization before the kids. Its not the kids fault at all. But its a lesson they will never forget. I blame the coaches not the kids for this mishap. It makes you think about who you hire for the coach of your team. Its pretty much unbelievable that a coach would do this to his team.
Aren't there at least a couple MTA vs MTA finals yet to be played? 15 girls and 13 boys right? How juicy! Who do they have slated to win? Have they discussed who can best represent MTA? Once you open pandora's box, there is no limit to where it can go. If I were MTA I would nip this in the bud asap. They have to isolate this to an individual and not the club. Frankly, I support MA (not idolize, just support) but he (or anyone) isnt bigger than the club or the kids. MA has buitl much of Bangu on his own sweat but like many 'entrepreneurs' it might be time to step aside and let the bureaucrats run the business. It has gotten too big for him now sad to say.
After reading this blog it pretty obvious that the kids are not the number one priority. It's all about the dollar and this should suprise nobody.I could name a half dozen coaches who's number one priority is the club not the kids.There is no place in youth soccer for these individuals.
How could you trust anybody who would cheat in a kids game.
It would appear that 11:00 falls into the #1 category in 10:48's post.
I know many of you know MA and AK, some have kids on their team, others know them as fellow coaches. For those of you just referenced ask yourself honestly if you think AK wasn't aware of what was going to take place. These two are good friends, they are regularly at each others games,they help run the academy together. Now add in MA's blog info that this was thought about long ago as the way they would handle this type of situation if it were to come up again. the fact that the reason this was to be the way they would handle it this way was soley because of the fact that AK's then 12's did beat the then 13's . Do you really think the two wouldn't have had this discussion? that MA did this all alone and AK was just completely oblivious to the thought that this may take place? It would seem amazing to me that MA would come up with this theory all on his own with no input from AK especially since AK's team was the "case study" that they (oops I mean he) based this plan on.
So feel free to pound this post with "you have no facts" "prove it" " show me in writing" etc.etc. It is time for people to live up to their mistakes and quit playing legal eagles with this. Maybe I am wrong and this was the one tactical piece about these two teams that niether of the coaches ever brought up to one another, could be? probably not.
MTA do the right thing here for MN soccer and own up to your mistake, appologize to the girls and wish EP good luck at regions. Oh Yea, just my opinion.
I am wondering when the Thunder owners will weigh in, their organization is the one being hhurt by this.
11:11 You are using a discussion that MA had a year ago as your reason for Andy's guilt by association. MA wrote what he would of done had he been in the same situation. At no time does he say that AK should have done this nor did he say that they discussed this senario any further. AK proved what he would have done, his younger team won the game in kicks. MA is at fault, it was his idea, an idea he thought of a year ago and one that he used to advance the older team. Assuming AK is guilty by association is wrong and has no merit. Until you can prove he had knowledge that it was going to happen than the U13 team and coach are not at fault.
It's a well known fact that MTA is run by a cabal of five or six guys for their benefit. If the Thunder wants to improve their image now's the time to clean house.
I believe that it was MA's actions alone and AK couldn't do anything to stop the opposing team.
In MA's blog, he states that in 2008 he would have been inclined to persuade AK to do this. It says nothing about AK actually being persuaded or supporting this in any way.
What was going through AK's head? It's a shootout to go to the final with 16 crazy 13-year-old girls. He was probably caught up in the moment, crossing his fingers that his girls perform and busy coaching his players to relax. I can't imagine how ridiculous it would be to walk onto the pitch, waving your arms, pausing the shootout, or doing whatever you would do.
I feel that AK is at no fault. AK shouldn't have to say anything, especially on this blog. Don't put yourself in a hole by saying anything. The logical thing is for the U13s to play EP in the final. No questions and no doubts.
11:11 - you like to use the word "they", all I've ever read is "he". what is your desire to penalize a bunch of U13 girls. Like the previous poster commented, it makes us all question your motives and desires (if you are an EP parent, there is nothing wrong with just coming out and saying that you would like a pass straight to regionals).
Milwaukee Madison senior Johntell Franklin, a captain on the boys' basketball team, lost his mom, Carlitha, to cancer on Feb. 7.
Madison had a game that night against DeKalb (Ill.), which traveled about 2 1/2 hours for the game.
Here is the chain of events, reported in Milwaukee's Journal Sentinel:
Madison coach Aaron Womack Jr. asked Franklin if the game should be postponed. Franklin said no. DeKalb coach Dave Rohlman offered to call the game. The game started, and Franklin arrived at the gym in the second quarter.
"A few seconds after I spotted Johntell, all the people in the stands did, too. They surrounded him. The players, his friends in the stands, the cheerleaders," Womack told the Journal Sentinel.
"Then came another surprise: Franklin didn't just want to watch. He wanted to play," the Journal Sentinel reported.
But there was a problem. Womack didn't put Franklin's name in the official scorebook. Adding a name in the scorebook after the game has started results in a technical foul. DeKalb didn't want the free throws, considering the circumstances but rules are rules. So DeKalb's Darius McNeal intentionally missed both free throws.
"I did it for the guy who lost his mom," McNeal told the paper. "It was the right thing to do."
So touched by DeKalb's compassion, Womack wrote a letter to the editor at the Daily Chronicle in DeKalb.
"I was overwhelmed with this display of almost unheard of sportsmanship and class. As I mentioned the game was close, and any opportunity for a score would be very beneficial. As a principal, school, school district staff, and community you should all feel immense pride for the remarkable job that the coaching staff is doing in not only coaching these young men, but teaching them how to be leaders," Womack wrote.
Why did he miss the shots? Coach told him to.
11:00 am,
Not sure what your intent was to reference these teams? (U15 girls & U13 boys) All of these players have worked very hard to get into the finals and do not deserve having their intergrity questioned or their efforts minimized by comparing their games to the one on Sunday. I just hope parents that are anti-MTA rememeber that these players are just impressionable teenagers playing a sport that they love and do not deserve to hear any of the innuendos that I've been reading on this blog. Punish those that are found to have broken the rules, let the others from the organization enjoy this experience.
Did someone's parent on the 13 team die? Let's reach a bit more someday aliens might invade us and we'll want the strongest team (decided by the soccer god) to be there fighting the dreaded beasts. Therefore I'll rig the outcome of a soccer game.
11:20 A well known fact, really. Do you know any of those people personally? have you ever worked with them? do you have any clue what those so called, in it for themselves make financially compared to DOC's at other clubs?
Please give us the facts of how they are in it for themselves. If you are just going to say, it's all about $$, good try come up with something new and is actually factual.
11:11 here. Fine you are all entitled to your opinions. I disagree and feel highly confident by the several items around the two individuals relationship, the fact that hey both are integral parts of the club, That AK's team experience when they were U-12's was the sole reason for the two having allegedly discussed this as an option, the fact that MA's blog intimates that this was the way he/they would handle the situation if it happenned again, the fact that they atre both directors and would benefit from the advancement of the team most likely to beat EP and move onto regionals, and the fact that the two are very good friends who live for youth soccer hence it is a big part of their lives and likely a big part of their day to day discussions.
Because of the above I think AK was in the loop on this.
So lets say AK comes on here and says he knew nothing about MA's intentions except for the conversation MA had with him a year ago after AK's team won in PK's. Would you believe him? Probably not, most of you are putting him in the guilt by association category, therefor he has no defense and is guilty no matter what. Is that fair? It does not matter what AK says or does for most of you he is guilty and should be punished. MA has said all along it was his decision and he was wrong but you still want to blame AK because he is friends and works with MA. Not fair to AK, but he has no chance with most of you who want to see MTA fail.
Tick-Tock 1122 basketball post
You do realize the amazing English Channel leap you are making with that basketball story (which is very touching by the way) and what occurred in this game that is being hammered to death.
I don't need to list them do I ?
11:32 - you are spot on that they (u13/15) don't deserve to have their integrity questioned, that's my point. given the circumstances (same club, same situation) is it unreasonable? my point was exactly that MTA should nip this in the bud to end it. simply, we at MTA have reviewed the situation and our opinion and position is such...our coaches have been instructed...end of story.
11:37 - I can fully understand how you could connect those dots. However, in a situation where the potential consequences could have quite an impact on a bunch of U13 girls (or any team for that matter) who have worked and sacrificed all year, wouldn't it be better to have the facts instead of your assumptions and conclusions? Shouldn't the dots be connected with solid black ink lines and not just dots drawn in pencil?
anon 1111,
My opinion sides with yours, that I believe Andy had to know based on his relationship with Mark.
I form this opinion on what I know about coaching friends sharing ideas and thoughts.
Could a coach stopped the other team's action? From Kick 2-5 Yep I believe so. How? When he saw the first deliberate PK being casually taken, a simple - NO NO NO NO THIS IS NOT RIGHT.
Bringing the action completely into the spotlight and calling everyone's attention to what is going on and that you are not please with it. Minimum, you at least disassociate yourself from the cheating. It might have changed Mark's mind at that point but that is pure speculation
sorry I meant 1137 I agree with- all you minutes start blending together like sands in an hour glass
Cheatin? We talkin cheatin? What's the big deal? Everybody cheats.
AI
I am not a parent of either team or any team that is in question, I know both coaches, through clinics, And I actually as a person like both coaches as people. I however think this is poor sportsmanship to fix a game. I have no affiliation with MTA or and other club thats in question I just enjoy soccer and watch both the Thunder and the English games. What MA did and AK did was not right it put the club before the kids and it should be the other way around. Kids are first and formost and so now because of these coaches actions the kids are going to be the ones that suffer. MYSA legally would have the right if you read the rules to knock out because of the director status all MTA groups, I would hope that they dont that is totally unfair. However they should be knocking out in my opinion both the 13 and the 12 year olds because of the affiliation with the club and both being directors.
So many here seem certain - but really, do any of us know how we would react in any given situation, with emotions in turmoil, an adrenaline rush, etc. It's one thing to theorize situations and another to actually face and deal with them in a split second. I know that many of us would like to believe that we would always make the "right" choice. But how many times have we looked back and wished we could have handled the situation differently.
tomASS I completely and utterly do NOT believe you that you would have barged onto the field to "stop the travesty."
1) you have NO RIGHT to tell another coach or team how to conduct themselves, even if you don't like it
2) Assuming before hand you DID know, as you seem to be claiming about AK (even though you openly call it an assumption, and though some would like to, you can't "convict" based on assumptions) what exactly would you have done, told your team to miss their PKs also????? At that point aren't you doing the EXACT SAME THING, artifically influencing the results?
You can claim you would have screamed NO NO NO all you want to, but the bottom line is THERE... IS... LITERALLY... NOTHING... AK... COULD... HAVE... DONE.
There is no counter argument. I'm getting so sick of the sanctimonious preaching on here. Its so transparent its not even funny.
AK is seems to be doing everything absolutely RIGHT in this whole mess, first his team conducts themselves exactly as they should - by taking care of their own business regardless of what the other team is doing, and second by staying miles away from this ridiculous forum. AK, if you are reading this, don't even think about posting in this wasteland if bias and hypocrisy.
tomass - so what you are now saying is that you do believe that AK knew, then per the rules, both teams should forfeit (contradicts your post from 11:11 yesterday) or that his fault is not intervening? In the heat of the battle like that, watching from the sidelines 40 yards away, I wish I could have that clarity and reaction skills that you think AK should.
On roadtoregionals.com, AK had been writing a journal for his team, in which he commented on the game. Odd, it's not there anymore.
I would have stopped it. I'd feel like @#$% if a game was handed to my team like that.
AK could have told his players to do the same. He could have told his keeper to let the ball in.
He must have incriminated himself on the R2R site.
that's the same thing!
I believe the best thing for MTA to do is to remove the 13s from the tournament (the 12s are already out) and suspend both coaches. Send them home and tell them "see you at tryouts." That would send a message that they are serious about this situation.
Before everyone says "it's not the kids fault" or "the 13s did nothing" or "AK had nothing to do with this" or "there's nothing AK could do about it"...
MAs comments on RTR make it clear AK knew.
tomass makes a solid point there was a lot AK could do; scream, tell MA it wasn't right, call over the ref.
And it would be unfortunate for the kids, but that's reality and a teachable moment for them. People actions have consequences; sometime those choices affect a lot of people.
The rules are clear and both teams should be disqualified.
Good luck at regionals EP!
"The goal of the Minnesota Thunder Academy is to promote the growth and raise the standard of youth soccer in the state of Minnesota."
Thanks, guys. We couldn't have done it without you.
12:13 He answered about 10 posts asking "if you were in that position explain how you would have handled this" Then he pipes in how he would have responded and you attack him.
I love how in typical MTA fashion everyone who disagrees with the MTA line is wrong. Your thoughts that there was literally nothing he could have done is silly. First thing he could have done is to TRY to do something. Like what TOMASS indicated. whether succesful or not we will never know because he NEVER TRIED. MA is his good friend and he was standing within 20 yards of him on the sidelines, he never tried because he must have felt it was OK. This argument is going nowhere with you and yours is going nowhere with me. I guess I am seeing this as a ton of what some may say is circumstantial (sp?)evidence all lining up saying he did know and you feel the "hard evidence" supports that it can't be proven.
OJ was innocent too.
it's time for MYSA to speak up
What should happen is both teams disqualified and the next in those two brackets should play this weekend and the winner of that team play against EP. That would be the most logical. Should there be a walk by EP no, but because of the actions of the coaches they should be disqualified from this tournament. Its just that a tournament. Those that win go further. Those that cheat and get caught are disqualified. To fix a tournament is just that cheating and should lead to disqualification. Both being directors from the same club, fixing results both should be held to blame. As far as there jobs go that should be up to MTA if they want these two on there coaching staff. But as far as the tournament goes that is up to MYSA.
i don't think the 12s parents paid for THIS
TomASS, O how I have missed thee! 12:13 apparently hasn't been around here long enough to know that TomASS would have run (OK, maybe hobbled due to his bum knees) on that field and declared foul! Did they finally get WiFi at Brit's? Cheers!
Mrs. Robinson
First 1213 - I hope have that right.
your reaction tells me you are not a soccer coach. pardon me if I am wrong.
it also tells me you never played the game, because you can tell when some one is serious about taking PKs
You don't know me very well, because I would have gotten in the other coach's face and not tolerated what was going on after the first PK.
When it comes to cheating during the game I feel I would have every right to call a coach out.
I would not have let the game continue until there was an agreement between the coaches that there would be no more cheating and giving the game away. I would have made sure that his players would have heard why this shouldn't be done. If it continued I would have pulled my team from the field. As I said earlier if it is worth winning it should be worth earning.
Of course I would have done nothing if I knew and agreed with what was going on.
Man, nothing like 5 years of pent-up Bangu/MTA frustration all coming out in two days. It's like being in the on deck circle against the Twins lately, the bloggers are fighting over who gets to sharpen the guillotine. I'd say get it out of your system, but two years from now there will still be folks bringing up back up.
tomASS - sounds like you've come full circle from your comments from yesterday at 11:11. I am making an assumption into your thought process (similar to your conclusions in regards to the coach) that you firmly believe AK knew. If so, how could both teams not have to forfeit (completely contradicts your earlier statement)?
if you would have gotten in his face then your name fits you. This is all so stupid. If they had truly conspired to "fix" this game it never would have gotten to PKs.
TomASS - you DON'T have that right, and the fact you think you do shows your own arrogance. You don't get to coach other people's teams. You don't get to tell other people how to run their businesses. period.
you're right. I don't coach and have never played - thats why I hang out on soccer blogs, because I like talking about sports I have nothing to do with.
Tick Tock 1215
Yesterday I did not offer an opinion, I stated that AK was the only one who really knew. Which is still true
Today I offered an opinion. He still is the only one who really knows, but If I was to make any conclusion as an outsider looking in, I believe he probably knew, and did not want to go against Mark's wishes.
Even If I think both were involved, I don't think the rule should be applied to these young players under the control of these two coaches. One of the two teams deserved to move forward so why make both teams forfeit because of the action of the adults. If the u13 MTA team beats EP they will be wearing the tarnish of what occurred the rest of the tourney. I don't believe EP wants to be handed anything.
I would take action against the coaches
I would then take action against the club and not allow them any state cup girl team entries next year at the U13 level
This recommendation - does not penalize the players...until next year. It penalizes the coaches, and then it penalizes the club at the age and gender they should have had more oversight at.
Just me thinking out loud
The solution is simple. Restrict entry into the State Cup to one team per club. This means MTA would not get more than one bite at the apple. Some of the MTA white/pink/yellow/purple players may choose to return too their CC team. Those players are primarily a revenue stream anyways, so MTA can offer financial assistance to the talented players they recruit. If your son/daughter is truly a gifted player, the MTA Blue coaches will find them
sanctimonious preaching, bias and hypocrisy.
I've never heard it described better.
Thank you Mrs Robinson - no there are better things to do at Brits.
I have been on the side line too long getting frustrated at the same old same old. But this was too good to pass up.
saw you, sweeper and Pollyanna post, now just need ems
Tick-Tock now 1254
your showing your ignorance - tougher to actually fix the play during a match. Too much can happen that you can't even plan for.....unlike PKs
Yes my name fits me as my friends and enemies will attest to. Why do you think I took it?
I do have the right to keep others from cheating in this wonderful game. We all do if we care about it.
And I do have a right to tell someone how to run their business......if they are paying me to do so silly
TomASS the only part I disagree with on your last post is that you would let the MTA 13 team play. If AK did know about the plan,As I think he did, then by rule (not opinion) they must be disqualified. See several above posts that have pasted in the rule. I believe the seriousness of this violation requires strict enforcement of the RULE. Sad truth is the players will suffer for the foolish acts of these coaches. Very tough lesson indeed.
12:54 "If they had truly conspired to "fix" this game it never would have gotten to PKs"
Please read the posts above and you will see that this is exactly the way the MA's blog info says they would have handled it. If one wins prior to a shoot out then so be it, if however it gets to PK's let the 13's win. Really if you think about it that makes the most sense if MA's heart was in the right spot only because shootouts are really not the best indicator of the better team, only the five best shooters on a team.
The rules allow for disqualification, replay of the match, or new match against next highest ranked team; right?
Or are you writing a new rulebook?
Tick Tock 101
how am I morally wrong on the fact cheating took place and it was wrong?
What bias is involved from my part?
Show me my hypocrisy?
People are overlooking the fact that MA made this decision because it was in the best interest of his team, the club, and the state. Who are we to disagree?
People have mentioned that his actions were against the rules. Well, then the rules need to be changed. I never liked PKs as a way of determining a winner anyway. From now on I propose FIFA instills the Abboud rule; if a game ends in a time, OT will be played. If no winner is clear after OT, then the coaches will decide the winner.
No wait, most coaches are not worthy, and would only have their own selfish interests at heart. Amend that to read "if no winner is decided after OT, then MA will decide the winner".
Here is the rule, I don't see replay of the match as an option.
Page 28 of Championship Rules. Maybe MTA/MA should have checked into it:
"...If the Minnesota State Cup Director and Administrative Committee determines
that a particular action by a team or any of its players, coaches, team officials or spectators is deemed
unacceptable for any reason, the team may be disqualified, sanctioned, requested to play another
qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance, and/or
face forfeiture of one or more games. Examples of such action include, but are not limited to: suspected
forfeiture or otherwise determining the outcome of a game with the design or purpose of controlling the
advancement of any team from its own group or any other group, intentionally losing a game, or
unnecessarily running a score up for no purpose other than to humiliate opponents...."
There can't be any excuse for a coach manipulating tournament results. Hopefully appropriate matches can be arranged to send the Minnesota's best players to Regionals.
110 - I will concede that the rules may need to be enforced as written. But typically intent is such a key in determining how wrong an action is.
I would have less problem with making an older group forfeit. Just my common sense tells me the lesson could be learned equally as well without enforcing the letter of the law.
It all boils down to one simple thing. Throwing a game is NEVER okay. Regardless of whether the motive was noble or manipulative, players deserve impeccable ethics and sportsmanship from their coaches.
The U12 coach seems to realize the seriousness of his mistake, has admitted it, and apologized. http://www.roadtoregionals.com/97-journal/week/2009-05-17-to-2009-05-23 That is a step in the right direction, but does not make the problem go away. Manipulating tournament results can NEVER be tolerated. Hopefully there will be individual consequences that reflect the gravity of the offense, while considering positive contributions the coach continues to make toward youth development.
I am cautiously optimistic tournament games can still results in sending the best players to Regionals. …rather than succumb to all the noise, emotion, and old haters club eagerness for sweeping vengeance.
1:16- Do you think MA would have done this if it was a non-MTA team?
1:18 I would be the part that says, "...requested to play another
qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance"
I'm sorry. I must have missed something. Mark Abboud is paying Andy Kaasa to run his business? hmmmm. I don't quite get that one.
the bias and hypocrisy I think best describes this entire blog, not necessarily you tomASS. Though you do seem to be wading into that pool here. I've never heard anyone describe this whole blog better than that.
you're "morally" wrong, because despite all your powerful evidence (insert sarcasm here) based on what are admittedly assumptions, there is still no proof AK had complicity in this act. You're convicting him because he didn't run around on the field and act like a moron, which seems to be the course of action you were suggesting?
Its sanctimonious to pass judgment without facts. You don't seem to have any evidence at all, just inferences. This, by the way, also indicates bias.
Should I start every post with "tick tock" also?
well written and thought out post 121
but I think you are overly optimistic - remember parents are involved
We can dream of a world where kids would be genuinely proud of what their parent’s post, and how they behave at events. I personally still need to improve, but we can dream...
A coach with the highest level of integrity would not allow the result, he or she would withdraw their team saying they would not take a tainted result
Rather than punish his players, perhpas that high integrity coach could simply seek a match against an opponent who would fight to the finish. The rules allow for that...
One coach screwed up badly, no question about that.
Now people want to penalize the opponent who did nothing wrong?
And on top of that penalize another team of girls the following year?
Get a grip people...use some common sense.
Tock-Tick 123 - never convicted him, offered an opinion of what I thought. Circumstantial evidence when served in significant portions does end up convicting many. Your statement would be more convincing if there was any evidence to at least indicate options that he knew nothing about what was going to take place.
I do not know Andy. I have no bias against him. I do have bias against cheaters. I hope for his sake he didn't know
133 - it would be penalizing the U12 team that cheated this year next year They have time to decide if the MTA program provides them more than just the road to regionals.
It would penalize the club for not establishing higher standards and thinking things through when you have as many teams as they did in this one group that situations could arise.
All of us (especially MTA leadership) need to remember it's about the KIDS, not the club. The kids make the club, not vice versa
From what I've heard the club does have a coach's code of ethics in place.
You can't be at every game every minute monitoring over 100 coaches involved in a club.
What the club can do is sanction the offending coach along with MYSA sanctions.
There should be consequences for the coach who broke the rules, without punishing the players
Let's give the club time to act of this. It will be interesting to see their course of action.
I don't think MYSA has weighed in on this yet either.
Both of the organizations have volunteers running things and it takes time to get together to sort through an issue like this. It's not like these people are full time soccer employees.
tomASS,
so based on your 1:35 post, you are guilty of circumstantial evidence until proven innocent? Thank god you don't run the justice department.
anon 1:52,
That would be the most logical thing to do.
Because it's the most logical action and we're dealing with MYSA expect something else.
Thank goodness trials aren't held in blogs. :-)
Even if you monitored people 24x7x365, humans make mistakes. Sometimes blunders.
nice twist on words - I'm basing my opinion on circumstantial evidence
My opinion is not a conviction of fault. Sure wish there was something even circumstantial to alter my opinion.
...and now back to the KIDS. What should be done for the KIDS?
I created a post for the U13 semi final controversy. Please use that post for all future comments on this topic.
This will allow other discussion for the rest of the teams in the MN Girls State Cup.
Thank you.
Thank you mnfutbol!
The U15 Girls final looks like a close matchup, with MTA Blue vs White. The teams have a history of games being decided by one goal or PKs. Not sure how many starters are dinged up on either side, but resting a couple injured players could make for a close finish again.
This weekend, which other girls finals are expected to be close matches?
I think the 14 match will be close. Burnsville plays MTA blue. I think Burnsville has the advantage in this match, maybe 2-1.
Burnsville 3-1
Burnsville is a good team, they will lose 3-0. MTA has the better team.
Burnsville is a great team as is the MTA team. Having seen them both play, I'd have to say it's going to depend on who plays more physically. Neither team has looked good when bumped hard. I'd have to lean toward MTA based on their mid-field play. Predict MTA 3-2 in OT.
I disagree 12:10.
I saw MTA get bumped around pretty good last week against EP. They looked pretty good with a 5-0 halftime lead. I'd also say MTA stood their ground well against a very phyisical EP team that got the short end of the stick on the physical play. They had so many girls have to come out of the game that it ended early. And the refs seemed to always make the calls in MTA's favor.
No I am not an MTA parent, I am an EP parent and was impressed with MTA's team after that game.
I think MTA wins that game 3-0 and I wish them luck at regionals.
U14G Blue 4 - Burnsville 0
I hope you re all correct and there is a clear winner.Both are good teams capable of doing well at regionals.i d hate to see it come down to pks, MA and AK would have another gut wrenching decision, deciding who would rep. minn.
funny 9:49, take that to the other thread. MA and AK have nothing to do with the U14 team. If anything, they've ignored that team the past two years.
10:19
Sounds like you re a MTAer.How do you think you re 14s will fair?
The Burnsville / MTA game will be 1-0, one way or the other. They have played once (NSC last year) with a 0-0 game that ended in MTA winning a shootout. Both teams are better now. Both teams are strong defensively so I wouldn't expect a bunch of goals either way. Assuming weather isnt an issue, this will be a good 1-0 game (or shootout). Both teams performed about as well in MRL and neither team has surrender more than 1 goal in any game that I can tell. There are friends on both teams that know each other and the coaches are both solid. This will be a fair, even game. Whoever gets the break will win.
17 SCV vs WDB Inferno, will SCV score a goal? Can they make it a game?
Sounds like U14's should be a grerat mathc, so see you Saturday at 9:30 on CRS field #3. Here's to hoping for no injuries, and may the best team win.
I hear Inferno is tough, but haven't seen SCV play this season. Anyone know how the teams match up?
Just a comment on officiating so far. We U15 parents haven't been thrilled with all the calls, but darn the crews have been in good position. That sure makes it hard to argue from camp chair. Grrr..
(Good job so far refs - Keep 'em safe please)
WDB will be verrrry hard to beat.
Spud
The U16 game will be a snoozer. The actual championship game was last Saturday where EP beat SSM 1-0. These two teams play 10 times you get 2 ties and 4 wins each way.
SCV barely was able to handle a devastated MTA Blue team, they won't have enough for EP.
The way the brackets worked out is a shame, but it is what it is. Good luck to EP at Regionals!
NOT an EP Parent
I actually think the U14 game will be a snoozer. There is no way MTA can play with Burnsville's speedy forward, excellent midfielder, and strong defense.
4-0 Burnsville!
have these two teams ever played any common opponents?
9:24, that is good one. so mta's team is going to get beat by one forward, one midfielder and their defense. Really, what about the other 6 players on the team?? Your basically saying that the rest of the team is no good. To me that says advantage MTA. In the end it will come down to coaching and TE could not coach his way out of a wet paper sack.
Yuor SSM U16s are Highly overrated.And as far as SCV goes, weren't they ahead of EP 2-0 at the half. Take it somewhere else with your excuses you pathetic Blue team parent.
9:24, two points.
1) Every team has its strengths and weaknesses. MTA does not have 11 solid players and no holes. So to say that the other six are no good is a stretch.
2) TE is probably the best coach in the state at this age group. The MTA coach pales in comparison. TE has watched MTA play numerous times, taking time out of his own schedule to do so. I'm sure he knows exactly how to play them. There is no way Burnsville doesn't have the edge at coaching with such dedication on TE's part.
or, 9:52 (see above)
9:24
Not cool to trash talk players or coaches. Why so emotional? Try moistening your sack for easy release.
If TE is such a great coach, why has he had to watch MTA "numerous times" to figure out how to play them? A 'great' coach would only need 1 game.
12:05
Who cares?
11:28, your comment defies logic.
NSC Cup U19 girls bracket looks interesting, pre State Cup game Sunday morning between MTA 90 Blue and North Metro, any predictions?
(my feeble attempt at changing the subject back to soccer)
The MTA U14 coach is the same guy who coached the Wings past Burnsville last year in the State Tournament. Or, should I say, outcoached?
The coach for the MTA U14 team is probably one of the better coaches in the state. He has that team playing at a higher level than ever before. He is the third coach in the past 3 years for that team. He has exceeded what even AK could do with that team.
If it comes down to coaching, MTA has the advantage. That said, it's up to the girls on the field and I believe MTA has a more well rounded team and should come out on top by 2.
Where are Saturday's results?
if you mean state cup, there is no state cup this weekend. finals are next saturday.
Before all of you crazed soccer-moms accuse me of being with MTA, let me just make it clear that I do not like them anymore than any other person in this country.
I am a Tonka parent, and having played both MTA and Burnsville, I have strongly believe MTA's defense, midfield, and forward lines are all extremely strong. There were no holes to be found. It is quite obvious these girls live for soccer. Their starting 11 are without question the strongest in the state. Sad to say.
Someone needs to show them they are NOT unbeatable. But, (sigh) this is not very likely.
Best of luck to Burnsville, I'll be rooting for you!
Here in Minnesota, we cheer for the underdog in State Cup but complain about Minnesota's bad Regional record. I don't understand?
MTA:
42 MN State Cup Champions,
47 MN State Cup Finalists,
3 Region II Champions
2 Region II Finalists
2 USYSA National Finalists
1 US Club Soccer National Finals
Just putting that out there...
1:24
I am a U14 EP parent and we played MTA in the semi finals. I agree with half of what you said. I part ways when you root against MTA. I am rooting for them. They played our girls well and beat my daughter's team 6-0. I thought they we good sports in the process, their coach was even willing to pull a player off the field when our team went down a player due to injury. They were well ahead at half time and they did not run up the score.
I for one think they are the top team in the state and that is who I believe should represent MN at regionals, so good luck MTA.
2:22
"just putting that out there..."
The questionis why? Are you trying to brag or trying to get under people's skin.
There's really no reason to "just put that out there" unluss you have an underlying reason.
If you're with MTA, shame on you, if you're not shame on you.
2:28,
I meant none of what you said, I just believe that people have some of the facts wrong.
Anon. 225:
I agree completely. MTA was in my daughter's bracket and the score was 6 0 (MTA) at halftime. They were exceptional sports about it by not running up the score at all in the second half. They were obviously the better team, and I did not see any negative attitudes in them that people seem to be convinced MTA players have. They were goofy, dancing in the middle of the game. And apologizing sincerely when they hurt one of our players. It was fun to watch.
Good Luck MTA!
2:25 and 2:37
I agree with both of you and I believe it is a reflection of their coach. He's a class act all the way and I think teams can take on the personality of their coach.
Good luck to both teams at U14, but I think MTA is the favorite.
Sorry to pop the MTA lovefest.I see only 2 state cup champions from MTA in state cup history.
5/24
As DS said..." All that matters is winning State Cup". Players???
The club comes first and don't forget it.
6:53
Im not stoned,you are if you can find more than 2 state cup winners from MTA in mysa history.
let's all play anal retentive semantic word games.....
This blog is so full of MTA. EP and Tonka parents coming to the aid of MTA, complimenting teams that win semi final games by lack of interest, good sportsmanship keeping the score under 6. Your kidding.....right?
9:24
MTAnal
2:25, 2:38,5:29;
Im sure hes a capable coach.I think some of the Wings ,who were state champs last year ,may wonder why their team was dismantled for parts.
you criticize a team's play - you get ripped.
you compliment a team's play - you get ripped.
I think we all have to 'qualify the source" to determine who is doing the ripping....
ALL MTA
so would that make 9:57 MTA?
If both teams win their semis this morning there will be an interesting game this afternoon between MTA 18 Blue and MTA 19 Blue at NSC Cup. Both teams will be disorganized, the 18's are missing 7-8 players and guesting some to fill in. The 19's are playing their first games together since returning from college. Still, lots of talent on field and should be a competititive game.
who won the U19 state cup preview match between MTA & NMT?
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