Getting fired is not the appropriate punishment, its to harsh. Come on people he made a bad decision, he did not kill anyone or physical injured anyone. He has stepped up and apologized more than most of you people could ever do, he admitted a mistake probably something most of you have never done. Grow up!
Come on, if you can't post a intelligent response, don't post. Show a bit of control. If 9:50 were to be happy a couple of boys teams should forfeit their games in order to appease the SSM gods. I mean whatever soccer gods there are, the whole discussion is a bit far out.
EP did not forfiet their game at half time. The game was stopped with about 10 minutes left because they did not have enough players to continue because of injuries. They started the game with 11, went down a player early in the second half because of a head injury. There were a couple more girls that were playing hurt and the coach wanted to take them off.
That's a bit differenct than quitting at halftime because you're down by 5 or 6.
You should all calm down - MTA should have made a stand on this earlier. MA has been very vocal and clear on his stand on this - it's written all over his website. Any parents who say they weren't aware are oblivious, and probably believed their DDs would win. He's been very clear about the U12s playing State Cup -that it's for the experience, and helps them when they are true 13s as they are more comfortable and familiar with the tournament and it's somewhat unique rules, formats, etc. Would you have preferred he just put a player in goal who wasn't comfortable there? That alone may have been enough to change the outcome of the game without putting himself in what to him was a difficult situation.
Anon 7:48, Are you going to penalize Abboud's team? They already lost! Are you going to penalize the opposing team who had no control over the situation? What would you do?
Page 28 of Championship Rules. Maybe MTA/MA should have checked into it:
"...If the Minnesota State Cup Director and Administrative Committee determines that a particular action by a team or any of its players, coaches, team officials or spectators is deemed unacceptable for any reason, the team may be disqualified, sanctioned, requested to play another qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance, and/or face forfeiture of one or more games. Examples of such action include, but are not limited to: suspected forfeiture or otherwise determining the outcome of a game with the design or purpose of controlling the advancement of any team from its own group or any other group, intentionally losing a game, or unnecessarily running a score up for no purpose other than to humiliate opponents...."
well... that's clearer. MYSA will go headhunting on this, and the fact he has pretty much admitted to it give them license to take his head off.
Believe me, MYSA will LEAP at this opportunity because it will appease their throngs of community clubs who hate the evil empire.
MA, based on the rule above, could be absolutely hammered by the club and MYSA - but if MYSA goes after the whole club they are grossly overstepping and just trying to appease the townsfolk outside the castle with their torches and pitchforks. They have to be careful themselves as word is USYSA is eyeballing them very carefully because of some recent happenings.
...and the key question is whether there was knowledge and complicity by the coach of the MTA U13s. If so, that "particluar action" may be deemed "unacceptable" by MYSA and the result could be declaration of a DOUBLE FORFEIT by both MTA U12s and U13s.
Not that would be a lesson to MTA and Mr. Abboud.
Would be a shame for the EP girls, not to have an opponent, but they'll have fun at regionals.
What's next......"every coach at MTA knew and they had an off-site meeting to discuss this scenario and how to implement it". Even if the U13 coach possibly knew that the U12 coach was going to do this, how was he going to stop him? Seriously, the hate (and/or MTA jealousy) is getting the best of a few of you out there.
If you take his blog at face value, and I do because he pretty much blatantly describes the decision making process - doesn't seem it was premeditated at all and therefor the U13 coach would have had nothing to do with it.
What is he supposed to do even if he realizes its happening??? Instruct his players to intentionally miss also so we have a never ending shootout?
Remember people, you may hate MTA but by calling for the U13s to forfeit you are punishing a bunch of 13 year old girls who essentially didn't ask for any of this and did EXACTLY what they were supposed to do, played hard and fair.
Is that what you want? You're so angry at MA and MTA you want to take this away from a group of 13 year olds??? If you're going to get on your soap box you better be willing to admit what you're preaching for, and while you're at it get a much larger box to stand on, because you're apparently very, very, very small indeed.
unfortunately 9:26, there are more than a few folks out there who do want what you describe (and they might not openly admit, but I'm sure there are a few EP folks included).
The coach/team that used poor judgement lost. Evidently he's acknowledged he made a very poor decision somewhere. (Who has the time to read blogs about other kids' teams?)
Use a little common sense folks. If you don't like Abboud that's your prerogative but don't bash the U13 girls players or others in the club for one person's poor judgement.
What kind of logic would have someone penalize the winning players who were innocent victims of this action?
Nope, the 13s shouldn't be disqualified. However, they should have to earn their spot in the finals like every other team.
My proposal - the u12 girls forfeit all games played, this will create a new representative out of their bracket (PRL, I believe??), and that team should be allowed the opportunity to play the 13s.
This is a win/win. The 13s will likely get the victory and advance to the finals KNOWING THEY EARNED IT. Further, it would show them that decisions have consequences (even if they weren't the ones who made the decision). The PRL team would get the opportunity to represent their bracket with class, and get another game.
MA should face further consequences, of course, but the above is a fair play solution.
7:43am - He did make that clear, but what if they were playing a non mta team? Would he have still thrown the game? He put himself and his team in a bad situation that didn't need to be!
I am predicting MTA wins between 8-10 State Cup titles that would put them at a tie or even better then last year.
19 Girls will win for sure 18 Girls already won 17 Woodbury is the class by far 16 EP 15 All MTA final, blue team better 14 MTA wins 13 MTA Wins
5 on the girls side
Boys 19 who know 18 MTA won 17 should be a great game 16 very interesting match with MTA White in and blue out of the final 15 MTA easily 14 MTA easily 13 MTA easily
16 boys win would give MTA 10, that is impressive and the 16 girls will get the MWRL spring spot so a record 11 teams at Regionals.
Why not have the MTA U13's play the MTA U12's again and not allow Abboud to coach? Why should the girls on his team who earned the right to be there blocked from playing in another match if that is the decision? Don't penalize the kid's on that team for a coach's decision. We're dealing with 11 and 12 year old girls who did nothing wrong. Let's not penalize the innocent kids because you want to bring an adult down. This is about the kids. Think about it before posting something vindictive intending to penalize an adult but instead will more negatively impact the girls. It's a messy situation but don't penalize those who are innocent in attempt to hurt MA.
Yes the parents knew MA was going to throw the game. That IMHO is what makes it even worse, knowing what he was going to do and the coach actually doing it is wrong on both sides. IMHO the parents need to accept almost as much of the blame as the coach.
10:40, Don't count your chickens before they hatch. As we've seen all through this tournament the favored team doesn't always win. Injuries, weather or just a lucky bounce or two can make the difference on any given day.
10:40. I think those are solid predictions (at least on the girls side, don't know much about the boys).
I thought for a while the 15 white team would win that game, but in the face of the 12/13 controversy, I don't think the blues can afford to lose that game or the conspiracy theorists will be out in full force. I don't think MC can rest his top players for that game nor, like he might have. Let's just hope no one gets hurt.
If MTA has 12 teams at regionals there will be a few folks whose heads will explode at just the mere thought of it. My hunch is 8 as there will be a few upsets along the way. BTW, good call on the U13 boys final.......
which is the best game on the girls side? the 13s has melodrama but i wouldn't expect to see compelling soccer. 15-19 seems lopsided. i don't know much about the u14 age but it sounds like both did well at mrl and most people from the beginning predicted this matchup. are the teams any good or is it still boot ball?
don't over look the U16 game. Wayzata has quietly played outstanding soccer during the tournament and will give EP all they can handle (EP had to struggle to beat SCV in their semi). One game - anything can happen.
The best game for quality of soccer, will be the U15 game. Both teams try to play soccer, however it is an MTA vs MTA battle and may not provide the drama you are looking for.
I would say the U14 game may be a very good one, have not seen much of B-ville but I do know that MTA does try to play. They have some very good technical players and some very dynamic forwards.
EP-Way will be a good game, hard fought but not much for quality as both teams rely on one forward to win them games.
U17 final is a waste of time, no contest.
U13 will have lots of drama and people rooting against one team, however EP is only as good as their one forward is and she may struggle against the athletic backline of MTA.
Any attempt by MYSA to punish the U13 MTA team or the club itself will once again show their vindictive nature. If anyone is to blame, and by his own admission, it's the coach who made a very poor decision.
I agree with the above proposed solution. 12s forfeit all their games, Prior Lake's 13s advance and play MTA early next week in another semifinal.
Sorry everyone no re do's. Two directors of the Minnesota Thunder academy colluded to throw the game once it went to PK's. These are not just coaches but DIRECTORS of the club. Both were aware of what was going on, both agreed to it(read MA's blog he says he had talked to AK about this senerio) and both need to be punished. Unfortunately in life and soccer periodically someone who has a controlling interest in our lives makes a mistake that we pay for. In soccer it may be poor coaching descisions on play time or putting the players in the wrong positions that cost a game, or in extreme situations like this it may be a coach putting the best interest of the club in front of the players. In life we all have to live with and suffer through descisions made by our parents,our bosses,our Government etc. were we to blame for our company going broke due to the stupidity of our management? No but we still pay the price of a loss of a job. When a parent doesn't help their child with the kids Math or reading and hence forth that child falls behind at school the kid suffers not because of anything they did but rather as a consequence of what that childs parents actions were.
Bottom Line: the kids at MTA did nothing wrong but their coaches did and the integrity of the State Cup is at stake here. The game was thrown by two coaches who are also directors of the same club. The game should be declared a double forfeit and EP should be declared the champion. Sorry to the kids but I am sure they will learn a bigger lesson if the enforcement of the ethical standards of sports is adhered to instead of learning that it is OK to violate the ethical standards that I believe all of us know are correct. meaning it is wrong to "rig" the outcome of any game.
sorry 12:51 your logic abou about tosing the winning tam doesnt hold up. The U13 girls did not throw the game, they made their, shots some went in some were saved. No rigging done by the U13 team.
The U13 team did nothing wrong. Did you want their GK to step aside and let the balls roll into the net? Anyone who wants to penalize the U13 team is grinding an axe with Abboud and MTA. Simple as that. Adults who want to punish a team of U13 girls who did no wrong are displaying judgment as poor as Abboud did with his decision. Grow up and put your petty grievances aside. It's about the kids.
We should all let EP win. It's been way too long for a club of that size not to have won a state cup. In this age of building "self-esteem", where's the love?
12:51. The two coaches in question are directors as you say. They are howver not part of the MTA board. According to the MTA Web site, "The MTA Executive Board is aware of an incident at State Cup this past weekend. It was a coach's decision that came into question; an individual decision, and it was not supported by the club. We are looking into it further to deem whether any disciplinary action is needed."
The members of the board are also listed on the MTA Web site http://www.mnthunder.com/academy/igsbase/igstemplate.cfm?SRC=DB&SRCN=&GnavID=14&SnavID=56
Neither of the coaches in question are on the board.
1:17- Seriously? "Let" EP win? If they win, good for them, and congrats to the club. If they lose, then they gave it a good run, and even being runner-up in state is a success.
If the coach talked with HIS team prior to any of this going down, and the players all agreed, then nothing wrong happened. Its the parents that are making the huge deal about this U13 game. What were you playing for anyway?? The World U13 Championship where you get lotz of prizes?? Get off the coaches back. Its his team, not the parents who think they are the bosses.
1:13 MA's blog indicates he talked through this senerio with AK which indicates to me that yes he knew what was going on. I think both coaches who are great friends and coworkers did have this plan in place, I know if you read the blog by MA he certainly indicates this to be the case. It was bad judgement by the two coaches who are directors according to the MTA web site MA is listed as the Technical director and AK is the East regional academy director. I agree with many above that this game was tainted and the unfortunate reality is :when rules are broken and you get caught, punishment must be administered. Sadly these coaches actions affect many others and because of that some innocent girls are learning one really tough life lesson.
1:24 Are you serious! The head coach comes to a bunch of 11-13year olds and says what he wants them to do, what do you expect the kids to do? Of course they do what they are told, he is the coach. But then you to say because they agreed it is OK!?!? Really!
Maybe this point has already been made...but isn't throwing the game obviously unfair to the EP girls, who may, if the U12s had somehow pulled it off through PKs, had the good fortune to meet the weaker MTA team (in both MTA coaches' eyes) in the final?
124, please tell me you are not that clueless!! You obviously know nothing about competition, ethics, or morals. The coach has an obligation no matter what the level or age. Lotz of prizes, most athletes especially the younger ones (excluding professionals) play for the trill of competition and the trill of victory and accomplishment. Just so you get it, the parents are the ultimate bosses. I would bet money some of those kids had no idea until right before MA told them right before the shootout what was going on. IMHO the parents should take some of the blame for this. The sad thing is I believe most of the outrage is coming from outside the club. Some because they hate MTA, but most feel horrible about what happened to those young girls. Those players would never agree to throw a game, they fortunately know the difference between right and wrong.
I'll let all know that much outrage is coming from WITHIN the MTA club as well. I'm an MTA parent -- on the boys side, however -- and I am astouded by the arrogance, guile, self-absorption and frankly, stupidity, shown by these coaches. Hope the MTA "executive board" is not mesmerized and takes some significant actions.
Am I the only one thinking the recent MA scenario would never happen if he were coaching a boys team? I can't see male players or the parents of males sitting idly by, at the beginning of a season, if presented with the possible throwing of a game.
People, if this happened to your daughters team, figure out your personal stance (maybe even include your daughter), do something if needed, and live with it.
If this did not occur to your daughter's team, shut your pie hole. You have no idea what you really would feel like or what you will really do until it actually happens to you.
If you dislike MTA, don't play for them. But if you are this competitive, do something to compete with them.
If you dislike MA don't play for him, oh yeah you can't you're not a player.
Try to find some enjoyment in your child's life, not just jealousy-not everyone is a winner. The sooner you figure this out the better your daughters and our country will be.
If you dislike everyone except yourself, get some help.
Does anyone have anything positive to say about their team, club? Stick to what you know, and try to be an adult!
224 I disagree 100%, the same thing would have happened regardless who it was. The parents on this team are some of the most competitive people you will meet ( A Good thing). Where do you think their kids get their competiveness from. Of course they weren't happy about it and did voice their disapproval. There only option was to hope the coach wouldn't follow through with what he said. There only other option was to quit and find another club, which is much easier said than done in the middle of the winter along with the problem of splitting up friendships it makes it very difficult.
It seems the decision was made with the idea that this team would have a strong chance to move on to the Finals then Regional's in the future. One or more of these kids may never get that opportunity due to team attrition, injuries, etc. I would guess there will be more fall out in the long run than short term.
Some people don't want to admit it but MA is one of the best coaches/trainers out there, his results speak for themselves, and I assume parents will still want their kids on his team.
336 I hope you don't justify his behavior because he is a great coach and trainer. I as a parent wouldn't settle for just that, they better be someone with leadership skills and integrity.
No matter how good of a coach he is and I agree he is probably the best in MN, he has no right to determine the outcome of a game. As for some kids not getting this chance again - you can apply that to every kid in the tournament.
He is a very good trainer and recruiter, but the best coach, I think what he just did takes him off the list. There are so many attributes that make a great coach.
i bet if you polled the parents on the team, almost to a family, they all want him to remain on as coach (now we will have a few posts about what a bunch of dumb parents they are).
Most of you do a wonderful job of passing yourselves off as adults. NOT.
I have no daughter playing ball anymore (haven't for several years), but if I were MYSA I would just tell USYSA that NOBODY is going to regionals from Minnesota at U13 because two coaches, both directors from the same club, intentionally threw a match to predetermine the outcome.
If they were coaches/directors in my club, I'd want them out. Complain and whine all you want about this, that and the next thing, but the reality is THEY CHEATED. If their "punishment" is going to be a slap on the wrist and no dessert, the club deserves whatever criticism comes their way.
From what I read (or at least try to read), if SSM had done the same thing, ALL of you would want them sacked for an eternity. Thrown out of MYSA. Tarred and feathered. Or worse. But no, it's MA, so he gets a pass.
The great hockey goalie, Patrick Roy, once remarked back to an opponent who was criticizing him that "he couldn't hear him because he had his two Stanley Cup rings in his ears". I doubt MTA will pay much attention to the comments on this blog as from what I hear the internet connections aren't very good in Sioux Fall, SD.
4:35, I'll chime in as others have. You can't penalize the U13 players who won the game. They did nothing wrong. Bash MA all you want as it was his decision. It is ridiculous to even suggest penalizing the team and players who were not in control of the situation.
4:38 - ???, if your daughter is on the team, please expound. your previous comments lead me to believe she is as how else would you know what the families are thinking.
Players regularly pay the price for coaches that do unethical things. That is why it is so important to have ethical coaches in place at all levels. Also, MA that best trainer in MN? Not necessarily, there are many as good. He has more of the best players at 13 that's all.
What all of this confirms the #1 priority of the club is money and egos. Your kids are just pawns in the scheme of things.There are many unhappy players and parents within MTA. Names of coaches and facts will be posted in the near future.
6:11, Why wait? Post them now. And if you have a pair you'll post your name along with the names you list. But that's too much to expect from you I'm going to guess. Are you man enough?
2:54 you are a stupid, weak person. I'm sure your child already suffers from your stupidity, so how much would they suffer if they changed coaches.
No way MYSA or USYSA will punish the player or the other teams. But I hope the do sanction the coach (bar him from MYSA activity for at least 1 year) and the club (how about a big fat fine?) Maybe the state should look into the players well being if the parents were so dumb to leave MA in place after saying he would fix the results of a game.
There are many unhappy players and parents in every club at this level. Get real. MTA doesn't have the corner on that. Having been at the MRL/Premier level for a few years I would say about 4-5 players/families are unhappy every year. They are a combination of player/parents who think they can do better and who think their kid should be playing more.
As far as "if SSM had done the same thing, ALL of you would want them sacked for an eternity." if I were a SSM parent I would be VERY quiet, your coaches behavior at State Cup may have put you in a glass house. I wouldn't be throwing any rocks.
4:44 The players on neither side did anything wrong. The coaches collaborated to throw the game. Read MA's blog he admits it. They played it straight until/if there was an overtime and then if that happened they would give the game to the 13's. Tough lesson for the kids on both sides. Bad deal for all of the MN soccer community especially the MTA girls. Game must end in a double Forfeit. See rule section from above 8:43 AM
From what I've heard there was nothing the opposing coach could have done. It wasn't his team giving the game away. Anybody who thinks blaming the U13 team or coach for this isn't thinking straight. What was the U13 coach supposed to do? Tell his goal keeper to let the passes go in? Think before you stick your foot in your mouth.
some girls predictions 17-woodbury 16-good match up but EP will end up on top 15-MTA blue will win for sure 14-MTA 13-interesting scenerio but MTA will win
From Abboud's website, I assume this is safe to post if he put it on his website for the public to see.
RE: If he faced the U13s this year in State Cup.
"That 12 v 13 final last year was played back to back with the U14 final; a final that saw my girls go to PKs against our White team. I remember talking to Andy (the U12 coach) after that game, saying that I wish I would have been with him (and not engrossed in my own game) as I would have likely encouraged him to have his players pass the ball to the GK for their PKs and send the true U13s to Regionals.
I remember discussions with my own team's parents last year after that, and again this year in parent meetings regarding this very subject. When I gave them my yearly plan for the team, a plan that included State Cup participation, some of them asked (knowing what I had said about Andy's 12s last year) if we were going into the State Cup tournament only to throw an eventual deciding match to our 13 Blue team if we got there. I said last fall and again in an early winter parent meeting that if it came down to a controllable moment, I would probably find a way to let the 13s go through over our team."
RE: Telling his team to miss the penalties
"I told them I was so proud of their efforts, but I wanted them to step up and pass the ball to the U13 GK when it was their turn to shoot. Shocked looks and gasps of "What?!?!" greeted that instruction."
RE: His players reactions afterwards
"The look of disappointment and betrayal that some of them held in their eyes was crushing to me. I was so frustrated with the whole thing that I accidentally said "Some of you are going to be poutty and b-i-t-c-h-y to me because of this, but I hope you understand my thought process." I've never used that language with a youth team before, though I'm sure they've heard far worse."
Source: Go here to get the entire article. http://www.roadtoregionals.com/my-soapbox/
730, He could of said Hey MA this is wrong I don't want my girls to be associated with anything like this. Either play it fair or my team will forfeit. MA would have had no other option but to play it straight up. It is that simple. Bet they both wish they would have handled it differently. Before you start saying he didn't know about it. He maybe didn't know how it would happen but he knew it would happen.
In fairness a bit of the other side also from the site:
"My thougths were a-whirl. The 13s are a better team overall than we were. They would do our club proud at Regionals if they got past either the White team or EP (game was to be played after ours). It would be better for the club and for MN to have them represent the state at the Midwest Region Championships. We were here for the experience. I was silently cheering for the 13s to score a goal.
As the overtime progressed, my thoughts went back to my previous State Cup experience.
Back in 2004, I had the current U17 Woodbury Inferno as U12s. We were playing U13 MYSA league, thus qualified for State Cup competition that year. We drew the Bangu Tsunami Stars in our group and got hammered 8-0. We advanced as a wild card and came up against the Wings U13 team in the semifinals. After regulation and OT ended 0-0, we eventually lost in PKs.
In 2006, I had the current U15 MTA 94 Elite Blues as U12s in the same situation - playing U13 league as a U12 team and competing in the U13 State Cup. We didn't advance out of group play that year.
In both instances, the idea was to get the U12s familiar with the State Cup event in order to feel more comfortable in following years when it really counted - as we looked to represent the state as true U13s. It's the same idea as MYSA's ODP program has. Get players comfortable with the out of state ODP camp at the youngest age groups so that the players can perform better in later years in a no-longer-new environment.
In both instances, the teams went on to represent the State at Regionals as U13s. The Inferno have been the state reps for 4 years straight, the MTA group for 2.
In 2003, the Bangu Tsunami Stars won the U13 State Cup as U12s and moved on to Regionals playing a year up. I think they were actually competitive there as well.
Last year, the Bangu Tsunami 12s beat the Bangu Tsunami 13s in PKs in the MN State Cup final to advance to Regionals, only to get hammered in all 3 games.
I did not want to put my 12s through that Regional experience. Oh, we might have done OK had we drawn 13 teams from ND, SD, or IA. But put us in a group with most other RII states and we'd be asking a lot for the 12s to be competitive."
737, I'm sorry to say but when a coach breaks the rules the teams and the coaches are the ones to pay. It is their responsibility and you put your trust in them and unfortunately sometimes the teams do end up paying the price. I don't think the older girls should pay but I also don't think they should get a free ride through the semi's either. I would definitely have a very candid conversation with the coach of my team. he has a moral obligation to his team and the game itself to make sure things like this don't happen. EP has a huge gripe.
Maybe EP would have had a better chance against the U12 team and thus a better chance to advance to regions. Upsets happen all the time and i'm guessing they would have preferred to play the younger team.
Give EP some credit. They want to beat the best to be the best. They don't need someone else to lnock anyone off for them. Don't count them out in the final. I am glad they are playing the 13's.
No need to worry about who EP plays ...because they will be going to regionals on a forfeit of the final game. No Mta team will play because , as posted above MA admitted this was the plan he and AK had from the beginning (8:49). The only way anyone plays EP if MYSA and the State Cup sanctioning board allow the next "best" team in.
Page 28 of Championship Rules. Maybe MTA/MA should have checked into it:
"...If the Minnesota State Cup Director and Administrative Committee determines that a particular action by a team or any of its players, coaches, team officials or spectators is deemed unacceptable for any reason, the team may be disqualified, sanctioned, requested to play another qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance, and/or face forfeiture of one or more games. Examples of such action include, but are not limited to: suspected forfeiture or otherwise determining the outcome of a game with the design or purpose of controlling the advancement of any team from its own group or any other group, intentionally losing a game, or unnecessarily running a score up for no purpose other than to humiliate opponents...."
I can't tell if that means Dakota Rev or Prior Lake gets through. Prior Lake is the next best in the bracket but Dakota Rev is next best in the State Cup based on points and tie breaker. (white was actually better than Rev but already lost in a "straight" semi-final game.) I say they will call a double forfeit rather than bring in Rev or PL for a "do over".
I hope all have learned from this experience, I especially feel for the MTA girls who were victims of some really bad leadership.
the full 90 minnutes were played. and two 10 minnute over times. the score was still 1-1 if the u12s made it this far in the older bracket they are sure to do fine next year in thier own age. it was the u13's time and the u12's time will come also. but in the end looking at the bigger prespective is all that went down. and somehow that got put into the startribune? that shows how much bad news travels faster then good.
if the u13s would have been able to score more and in the game and win it none of this would of ever happened. and if they won, there would be no drama. but since an adult made a poor deciscion somehow everyone knows? life goes on the u12s have had thier share of glory and wins belive me. and there are so much more for them to come, including regionals at their own age next year.
If MTA lets go of MA it may be the single unifying moment in MN Soccer to date as now there would be no one to hate and the respectability of the club would be elevated. MTA has lightning in a bottle right now if the act on it.
Unlike, the blog. The concerns regarding SSM coaches were handled in a more professional manner. With the school. Unless you have a DD on the teams you don't really need to know. If you do have a DD on the team call the school.
10:18 - so true, before every practice he has them all stand in front of him and he waves a pocket watch in front of them and hypnotizes them. some of you folks are so sad. so very, very sad. i keep thinking your lives might be very empty if he is let go, but then i realized that you will just point your hatred at someone or something else.
By no means should MA be fired.he is a brilliant coach,perhaps the best MTA has to offer. The players and parents are extremely fortunate to have a coach like MA.one mistake should not define him as a bad soccer coach.
On any given day any team can beat any other team. Unless their coach tells them no to. Then of course it is no longer a game is it.
The saddest part was the reasoning that the team (u12) would be humiliated if they went to regions; so being forced to throw the game was less humiliating than being beaten fair and square on a soccer field in regions.
Egads, 11:12! Get a grip. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe an outrageous statement like 'one mistake should not define him . . .'??? I respect MA as a colleague and friend, but I doubt anyone in their right mind would claim that this is his only mistake as a coach/administrator for MTA/Bangu. I don't think most of his mistakes are of this magnitude, nor do I put the malicious spin on them that some on here do, but mistakes have been made prior to this whopper.
Where is the U-16G EP Coach from? I don't know if there were any adjustments made at half time by EP Coach or not but, one of the best comebacks I have witnessed in youth soccer.
St. Croix team was the much better team technicaly, with great athletes. How can a team with much better soccer players lose to a less technical team?
How can EP win against SSM? I am scratching my head. Isn't this a true soccer ACADEMY?
I am confused! Does TACTICS in youth soccer outweigh TECHNICAL ability?
How many times do people have to hear that the opposing coach had no control over the situation before they get it? What could he have done to stop the opposing players from kicking directly at his keeper? Abboud made the mistake. He's admitted that. The opposing coach couldn't do anything to stop what occurred. Seriously...if you were the opposing team's coach and you saw this happening what could you do? Anyone? It's obvious the bloggers who want to penalize the U13 team aren't thinking logically and letting their past grievances and animosity towards MA and MTA cloud any logical thought process. It's the same tired old rant we've heard on this blog the past few years.
I don't think its a matter of the actual 13's they want to punish but its the coach letting the other coach throw the game. Its not up to the rants on this board but more MYSA and MTA. My guess is there going to take the state cup away from MTA on the 13 age level and give it to the next up in line. Those will be the two on Saturdays Match. Its clearly stated if someone intentionally throws the game, both teams are involved. And knowing that the 13's coach knew as per the blogs hes just as much at fault. The kids are going to be the ones to suffer. It was a poor choice by the coachs but its going to be one that the kids have to live with.
I think there is a double standard, even within MTA. It seems that anything MA or AK do is okay. Look at last year. The current 14s were in the same position and AK had the younger team. He was a hero for having his team soundly outplayed but upsetting the older team. Now this year, he's handed a victory and (in my opinion) will still brag about his accomplishment. If someone other than AK was coaching the 13s it might have been a different story. It's all about AK and I believe he should share some responsibility here.
He could have done a lot of things about this situation. He could have told MA he didn't want to win that way when he saw what was happening. He could have instructed his keeper to let one or two in to keep the shootout going. But no, he stood by and let it happen. In my opinion he knew it was going to happen and was smiling all the way to his "fake" final appearance.
To me, the article shows he is more interested in saving his own backside even if it means throwing the rest of the Thunder organization under the bus.
The Thunder board seems to be willing to get thrown under the bus too.
I think this is a chance for MYSA to show it is still relevant. They should suspend the entire club (boys and girls) for one year, effective immediately. That would mean a forfeit of the state cup finals any MTA team is scheduled to play, forfeiting any remaining league games and not being eligible for any competition until May 18 of next year.
That would not only send a strong message to the soccer community that MYSA cares about the integrity of its tournaments and leagues, it would also ensure nothing like the ever takes place again.
8:28 MYSA would never suspend a whole club for 2 coaches actions. Could they kick those two teams out of the tournament yes, but not the entire organization.
My tongue was firmly planted in my cheek, I apologize for that. I should have said that up top. I was trying to show how ridiculous this whole conversation really is.
8:39, One more time. I think I'm about the 5th person to say this. What could the U13 coach do to stop Abboud's team just knocking the ball directly to the GK? What could he have done? You can't penalize the U13 team for the actions of the opposing coach and players. What kind of twisted logic is that?
8:45 - you should know by now that everyone who makes that comment has a bigger ulterior motive. I have yet to see anything anywhere that states the coach was in on it and better yet to your point - what could he have done? The folks writing that fall into two categories: 1) - those who want to "over-punish" MTA for who they are and any perceived on their part past "mistakes" 2) - those with a vested interest in past and future U13 state cup outcomes.
this story has been Christmas morning for the MTA haters. They are all at the gates with pitchforks and torches.
All they've managed to demonstrate thus far is what giant tool boxes they all are. If MTA comes back and doesn't act to punish him for this, or if they fail to punish him and then MYSA lets it slide to, then I'll join in the "outrage," but for now maybe all of you should shut your "anonymous" mouths and wait and see how this is handled.
9:15- This is a discussion board. It's reason for existing is for individuals to voice their opinions. People may dislike the MTA opeation and how they carry on business. This doesn't mean they are "haters" -(your terminology).
9:33, For arguments sake what if he knew it was possible? Do you think anyone would truly believe that it would actually occur? Once it was apparent after the 1st player kicked the ball to the keeper how could he have stopped it?
Well, I wondered how long it would take. Someone posted all of this dirty laundry on BigSoccer.com with Coaches RoadtoRegionals blogsite. Nottin like sharing with the whole country about this U13 mess. Way to go MNFUTBOL :( Hope you feel better with yourself.
Come on people,lets not act Naive. On MA's blog he indicated that he and AK talked about this possibility. The two are both "directors" at MTA, They are very good friends and talk all the time. "I think" (want to avoid any possible litigation) that it is undeniable that AK knew about this well ahead of time. I think several others knew about this ahead of time ie: the 12 parents were reportedly told this at a parents meeting, If the 12 parents knew does anyone really think the coach,fellow director, and very good friend of MA was unaware? Lets be real. The best thing for MTA to do is fess up and try to move on next year. Either EP is crowned champ or the next best team is inserted in place of the Blue 13's. The game was manipulated by two coaches who made a bad descision, Penalties must exist, unfortunately the MTA 12 and 13 year old girls will have to pay the price for their coaches very bad choices. I have to believe the Thunder pro team is very uneasy about how this reflects on them too. Not good to have someone on your coaching staff or in your organization busted for game rigging. How many times has this happenned before? at what level of play? Pro?
I think it's good that it was posted. Hopefully this will cause some change that is badly needed. My suspicion though is that this has happened other places before. I think people accept it which I find disappointing and tragic. Many will hide behind the "overall benefit" of a "club" like MTA ("they raise the quality of MN soccer"-not!) and it's goings-on.
I think it does happen quite a bit in states with much stronger clubs structures. Many states organizations are small potatoes, MYSA probably has more $$ and power than most state organizations. Which is why we have alot of drama. MYSA is always trying to appease two masters, and stay in control. I think in other states with strong club structures MA would not have a blog. I think in other states this would have been taken care of by the club, not up for discussion on a blog where little or thing can be accomplished.
10:22, Once again...what could the U13 coach done to stop the opposing players from kicking the ball to his keeper? What would you have done if you were in the U13 coach's shoes? You can make all the charges and accusations you want but looking at it rationally what could the U13 coach have possibly done once he saw this happen on the 1st PK? Please tell us what you would have done.
It's easy to see MA's passion for the game and for his young players. However, he's taken it too far, over-thinking everything to the point where his judgment has been clouded.
This is a terrible folly that appears to be haunting him. MA shouldn't be fired and he shouldn't quit. He should improve and regroup from this. Outside of this error, MA has been one of Minnesota's top soccer ambassadors dating back to the days he played. More importantly, he is great for most of his players and teams.
I think he got caught up in the whole MTA / Academy vision, thus forgetting his primary role as a coach of 16 girls a U12 team. As shown in his wordy blog writings, he's quite simply over-thinking and over-analyzing.
He's too good for the game to quit. Perhaps some new scenery would be good, such as an older team on the boys side where he can be reminded of the simpler things in soccer like "you play to win the game."
This has happened before at the National Level. You may have seen the video on you tube, if not go look it up. Eclipse and PDA threw a game at nationals once they both knew they were into the finals. For sixty minutes the ball never crossed midfield. Dallas Texans parents were arrested because of this and guess what, no one was punished. Nothing is going to happen to the U13 team, they are not a fault. MA may face some sanctions but you cannot punish 13 year old for something they had no control over.
10:40 Because AK knew of this possibility or plan for the shootout as soon as he saw the first kick he could have looked over to his good friend MA (they are standing right next to each other)and questioned the actions. If he believed it was wrong he could have said so after the first kick. Now a different senerio. If the two had no relationship and were not part of the same club I would feel there is no responsibility of the benefiting team to do anything.
The issue here is the past discussions, the relationship and the fact that these two are great friends who talk and stratagize all the time, and of course the fact that they both represent teams from the same club. My opinion is MTA has no choice but to acknowledge these facts and send no team at 13 to the final. If they keep dancing around the issue they will only make it worse. Just my opinion.
10:50, I totally disagree. The U12 coach had zero control over the other teams players. Even "IF" he knew it was a possibility what could he do once MA had given the instructions to his players? It would be extremely vindictive to penalize the players and coach who had ZERO control over the other team and who did NOTHING wrong. Bash MA all you want but use a bit of logic and ask yourself why penalize 18 girls who are 12 and 13 years old.
Here's an idea, why don't you ask the U13 MTA coach if he knew MA was going to throw the game? Hey AK did you know? we know you read the blogs, fess up!!
11:03, Until it actually took place nobody could know for sure. Once it occured what could you do? Put yourself in that position. What would you do? What could you do? Please tell me what you would ahve done.
This has obviously become nothing but an argument among logical thinkers who realize the U13 team had no fault in this event and shouldn't be hurt by the opposing team's actions and the bashers who we've seen attacking everything MA and MTA have done for the last 3-4 years. Same people, same axe to grind, same old story. Not one of them has been able to say what the U13 coach could have been done to stop it once it became obvious what was happening.
Anonymous said... This has happened before at the National Level. You may have seen the video on you tube, if not go look it up. Eclipse and PDA threw a game at nationals once they both knew they were into the finals. For sixty minutes the ball never crossed midfield. Dallas Texans parents were arrested because of this and guess what, no one was punished. Nothing is going to happen to the U13 team, they are not a fault. MA may face some sanctions but you cannot punish 13 year old for something they had no control over.
20/5/09 10:47 AM
10:47, were you there?? Nothing happened because nothing happend. This game was NOT, repeat, NOT thrown. Texans would not of advanced anyway due to points, they tied Crossfire the same time Eclipse/PDA was playing. Eclipse was resting most starters, they did not have to win, 90+ degrees in shade, no wind, Eclipse was in the finals no matter how the outcome of the game(s). PDA had to score, which they did, and after that, it wasnt much of a game. The thing most didnt know, the Texans dad ran onto the Eclipse field (Which youtube didnt show) during the game of the Eclipse trying to chance down a Eclipse player. Texans had to win to even have a chance to advance, they didnt!! All teams involved in that had to take care of business, which they did not do. Eclipse beat Texans 1-0 3 points, beat Crossfire 2-1 3 points in bracket, lost to PDA 0-1 then beat PDA 4-0 in Championship. Nothing was thrown. Texans was beat by Eclipse 0 points, tied PDA 1 point, tied Crossfire 1 point. Crossfire was beat by Eclipse 0 points, tied Dallas 1 point and tied PDA 1 point. Eclipse had 6 points. That nite, Dallas's DOC told Eclipse he was sorry for the parent that over reacted. Even if Eclipse would of tied PDA, PDA still would of went due to goals scored/allowed. Bottom line, and I would say the same for the current U13 game, teams need to take care of business during bracket play, If either MN team would of won during play, no one would be having the conversation right now.
For the first thing the 13 coach could have NOT stratagized with the 12 coach over the past year about this very situation. Don't try to turn this into a poor us everyones bashing MTA session. Your club directors colluded to fix the game if it went to PK's. Read the blog written by MA himself, he admits it.
BTW 11:02 do you really think MA has "zero control over the other teams players" ? Maybe not directly but certainly indirectly through their coach.
this was my point from earlier!!!???! I mean seriously, should AK have told HIS girls to stop this injustice by missing themselves also??? We could have had 400 rounds of passes right to the GK. 11:08 is right on, this incident has been what the anti-MTA people have been praying for every day, they finally have a cause to rally their jihad against MTA and anyone else who lures kids away from community clubs.
Just to throw this out there, I am not saying I feel this way but I am curious what others feel, what about the referee??? I mean, once he saw this, could he have carded the kids for "unsporting conduct?" I have no idea, I'm not a ref and I am certainly not blaming the guy in charge in this case, but what if he had threatened to card kids for unsporting, could that have "forced" them to disobey their coach??? I don't know. This is fascinating either way, but one thing is for sure, MANY of you are vindictive jerks who want to punish kids and hide behind "we're teaching them a valuable lesson."
MA is not Hitler. These kids weren't in the waffen SS. THEY ARE 12 YEARS OLD.
11:34 - please provide the blog comments where the directors colluded to fix the game if it went to PK's? You seem quite sure of yourself so this should not be a difficult task.
MYSA better be awfully careful with this. They unilaterally disqualify the U13s and there WILL be hell to pay with the USSF/USYSA. The U.S. Amateur Athletic Act is pretty clear about organizations denying competitive opportunities, especially to kids.
The only real option for MYSA on this is: a) sanction MA only b) sanction 12s (they had complicity, 12 years old or not) c) sanction MA and AK, but NOT the u13 team as a whole - and this is only if there is definitive proof AK was involved. No matter how many times you put the world "directors" in quotes you still aren't PROVING a thing d) the only sane thing to do in my mind (which means MYSA won't do it of course) - either order a replay of the match, or disqualify the 12s and have the 13s play Prior Lake in the semifinal.
** incidentally option D is still the only one that decides this on the field, which is what you all claim to want anyway
As mentioned a while ago they are already under some scrutiny over their little feud with the National Sports Center and their refusal to sanction some tournaments because they conflict with their little district schedule.
11:32 Thanks for your detailed account of nationals, however, my point is, that the coaches stopped playing the game and fixed the result. If you look at the rules that people keep throwing up on this blog the two similar in that the spirit of the rules were broken.
I agree with you 100% that you need to get it done in group play. That is what is wrong with the national finals, it allows for PDA/Eclipse games to happen. But that is for another day.
I don't know, I can't see punishing a bunch of 11 & 12 year olds for following their coaches directions. Especially if it didn't physically hurt someone.
When are all of you going to realize MTA is all about the club. Your kids are on the bottom of the list of priorities.If the above doesn't enlighten you nothing will.There are other coaches on the MTA staff that are just as screwed up as MA. Acouple of guys that come to mind are AK and DS.If you think these egomaniacs really care about your kids you've got another thing coming.Time for MTA to clean house.
11:34, NOBODY...not one single soul... has been able to say what they would have done if they were the U13 coach and saw the first PK intentionally knocked right to his keeper.
What WOULD you have done at that time and how COULD you have controlled the other team's players and their coach?
11:34...you seem to have the answers...what would YOU have done? What could YOU have done?
Don't give us more rhetoric...give us your answer.
Here are the rules (as posted earlier) This will explain the argument that Both teams need to be disciplined.
Page 28 of Championship Rules. Maybe MTA/MA should have checked into it:
"...If the Minnesota State Cup Director and Administrative Committee determines that a particular action by a team or any of its players, coaches, team officials or spectators is deemed unacceptable for any reason, the team may be disqualified, sanctioned, requested to play another qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance, and/or face forfeiture of one or more games. Examples of such action include, but are not limited to: suspected forfeiture or otherwise determining the outcome of a game with the design or purpose of controlling the advancement of any team from its own group or any other group, intentionally losing a game, or unnecessarily running a score up for no purpose other than to humiliate opponents...."
The part in there about the team,players,coaches or TEAM OFFICIALS...is unacceptable FOR ANY REASON. The team may be disqualified etc...
AK is a "team official" he is the club director of the East academy. MA is also a team official as he is the clubs technical director (whatever that means) . The problem here is that one team from the same club was picked over the other. Both coaches are "team officials" which puts blame on both, because they were both/together involved in the tactical planning of how to respond to this type of an event.(see MA's blog) "I remember talking to Andy (the U12 coach) after that game, saying that I wish I would have been with him (and not engrossed in my own game) as I would have likely encouraged him to have his players pass the ball to the GK for their PKs and send the true U13s to Regionals" This plan was not a spur of the moment decision by one person, it was a long term tactic that would be deployed if the situation ever arose,, Which it just did.
Hi, I'm a local minnesota soccer club. Here is my solution to this problem:
1) MTA should be immediately disbanded, and all players ordered at gun point to return to their community clubs 2) All MTA apparel and uniforms need to be burned in a giant bond fire while we sing and dance around it like wild indians 3)the MTA directors, coaches, and anyone who knows them by association should be tarred and feathered publicly 4) The kids involved should all attend a seminar on the dangers of match mixing and gambling, keynote speaker Pete Rose
If those four conditions are not met, and I mean immediately, then I shall have no other recourse than to.... post anonymously on an internet blog site.
If your the coach you should know the rules. None of these coaches are new there veterans and it clearly states if you throw the game you are violating the rules. They have a copy of the rules both coaches did. We as parents can find them and the coaches should know. These are paid coachs not parents. These coaches knew the rules and should have abided by them
1150 - Option 2 - sanction the girls? The 12 year old girls? For following the instructions of their coach? Come on. I was at the game, saw the entire thing, and don't have a daughter on either team. I would give my perspective but know that I would only get hateful responses. The girls on both teams worked their butts off, and the 12s that took the shots demonstrated maturity beyond their years. Too bad we can't say that about people who post on this site.
1) What is a bond fire? 2) The 13s probably shouldn't be punished. 3) What would I do if I was in AKs position-I wouldn't be in his position as I wouldn't be part of such an operation. 4) While my daughter is a team player I can't see her ever doing this regardless of what the coach would say. (this isn't judging the girls-they are drinking the aide also)
1) lets correct every misspelled word and typ-o on this blog, please, lets do that 2) wow, I bet they are relieved you feel that way 3) you probably wouldn't be, that's only because you lack the credentials, experience, and general knowledge of the game required to be a part of such an operation 4) B.S.... but you keep telling yourself that
anon 12:53, Nice dodge. The question was what WOULD you do if you were coaching a team and the opponent just knocked the PK right at your keeper? What COULD you do? Still nobody with an answer is there? Many of you want to punish a bunch of girls for something they or their coach could not control. You're all so very transparent. Grow up.
The following have received disciplinary sanctions by MYSA: Danny Bakri Arsenal FC Use of Illegal Players and Providing False Information October 19, 2008 through October 19, 2011
This happened just last year. This person provided false information and had illegal players to win games. Did they disband the club? Did they make all teams in the club go down to C3? Where was the out rage here? Why are so many incited to hang MTA? We have a coach telling a bunch of U12 players to throw a game against a bunch of U13 players. It has made the Mpls paper as well as national blogs. I think we have pretty much ruin his reputation. Yet it sounds like some (who have no horse in the race, nor a DD in the age group) want him and the club he is associated with burned at the stake. Does anyone else find this a bit hypocritical?
12:53 Lets see - every one of the kids on the U12 team went along with this fiasco but your daughter (put in this same exact situation) would not!? I do not believe you. I think your hate of this club colors your judgment. Yes the director messed up do not blame the 12 & 13 year olds. Do you hate the little kids also? Some of you adults should act like adults.
Here's what I would do in that situation... I would watch my team make their pks, be thankful the other coach was a moron, and then go have a nice steak dinner.
anyone on here who claims they would have halted the process in the name of pure competition is a liar.
So the 13 coach couldn't have said to the official " this is wrong, please register my voicing that" He couldn't have found an mysa person and said "please halt this until we sort it out" The thical thing for the mta board to do is withdraw their team, discipline one or both coaches if they deem both have responsibility. End of story.
11:37 This is what I have heard: the Ep coach was mentored by WH last year. He has brothers that coach.
As I have heard, the change in the game, was because the girls made suggestion to get forward and push players up, the coaches suggestion was to add another defense mid and play back.
Whatever happened, they united as a team and played very well, and put this one away
What was the penalty for WH when he threatened that his players would not make the HS team if they tried out for for soccer clubs other than the one in the high school's community?
1:04 First I agree some are over the top in the punishment they are requesting. I believe the rules need to be enforced which I interpret too mean both teams are disqualified. Again, NOT for what the kids did but rather for the actions their coaches took. (post 12:35) This is a tough lesson for the kids, but what do they learn if nothing is done? Actions by a few can have consequenses to many, unfortunately I see that this is the case here.
The mjor differences I see in the Arsenal case vs this one are: 1. Arsenal was not playing another Arsenal team trying to advance the more experienced group. 2. It wasn't in a State Cup Semi-Final game with regional implications. 3. The Arsenal case didn't have Blog data suggesting the actions were a premeditated tactic the club directors planned to use if the situation arose. 4. The Arsenal team isn't the youth Arm of our states only Professional team. Which creates a much higher profile for the MTA group.
I would not have halted the process once it began. However, I most definitely would have told my good friend and mentor who was coaching the other team NOT to do this in the first place.
From reading the r2r site, I think it is clear that Andy and Mark had discussed this scenerio beforehand. I have not once heard that Andy voiced any objection whatsoever. In his public handwringing, Mark would have told us of AK's objections if he had any.
I also think that Mark has enough respect for Andy that if he had voiced a previous objection, Mark would have listened and this whole mess would not have occurred.
By the way, soccer is a team sport. This means that the whole team is effected, for good or ill, by the actions of any individual on the team. This is the reason why the whole team must play shorthanded if one individual earns a red card. It is also the reason why the players, unfortunately, often suffer some reprecussions for a coaches behavior. It is not fair, but it is just.
1) the post said typo or MISSPELLED word 2) sarcasm chief, its this new and amazing thing 3) yeah I bet you do, and its not hard to say things that aren't true on internet blogs anonymously either right? (alert - this is that sarcasm thing) 4)yes I do (see, I can post things that are totally untrue just like you can - see #3)
lets keep making lists, this is fun. Is the view nice from up there on your pedestal? Does your back ever start to hurt after you ride your high horse around all day? What IS it like to have s*** that doesn't stink? These are the questions that keep me up at night.
There is no way to be certain the U13 coach knew this would happen. Once it became obvious there was no way to stop it. To penalize someone on pure speculation is a very risky proposition. It would open up the very strong possibility of legal action from the innocent team if they were sanctioned for actions over which they had no control. Very shaky ground with no definitive way to prove collusion. My guess is that it would be a very expensive lawsuit.
Ya Think. Hes worried that his child isnt going to play. As far as law suits go. Those two directors could have all of MTA thrown out of the tournament not just the 13 and 12's
1:53, What color is the sky in your world? You're totally delusional. It's really funny watching the same 8-10 folks who have bashed Abboud and the Thunder/Bangu the last several years posting the same thing over and over and over...it's as if they think saying it again and again will make it happen. Poor deluded souls.
"I apologized to them about the day yesterday, told them I made a mistake, mentioned that there would likely be repercussions and that I was fully at peace to deal with them, at peace because I took responsibility for a decision that I thought was made in the best interest of the club AND OF THE STATE at the time it was made." (emphasis mine).
1) It wasn't a misspelled word either, it isn't a word at all. You challenged my list. Yes, I could be a liar but... I'm not. I'm not on a high horse of any kind. I'm just as entitled to state how I handle things as anyone on this blog. You can disagree of course.
I've never seen this blog so active as the past few days. The haters are absolutely orgasmic and drooling all over their keyboards. Too funny watching them get all lathered up and posting their fantasies.
Wait... Coaches of a youth soccer club perform an unethical act. People are properly outraged. They call said individuals/club on the unethical act. They are then labelled "haters"? Oh yes, this makes sense.
Anon 1:29 Some of your points I agree with some I do not. 1. No but they were trying to advance to a different level in their leagues. So he was still cheating and he was cheating over a period of games not just one game. You are also assuming that the U13 coach knew what was happening before the first shot. I not sure, if I think he did. I also think it is expecting a lot of a coach, to think that during a shoot out he should realize what is going on with the first shooter, and then figure out what he should do about it. Maybe I am slower than most on this blog, but I do not know if I would have figured it out after the first shot, maybe after the second shot yes. Now, I have three more shooters to figure out what I am going to do. Go to the ref. Say something to MA. Shake my head in confusion and take the win. 2. ABSOLUTELY, and this is the real problem for MYSA & MTA. 3. MA completely confuses me in regards to his blog. Insight into his thought process is interesting, but his inability not to bring attention to himself goes beyond anything I have ever seen. 4. The Arsenal Club I believe started last year, and was promoting itself as a Premier Club. From their web site, “Arsenal FC (Football Club) is the newest premier youth soccer club in Minnesota” It was also a boy’s team and not a girl’s team. In my experience, parents in girls’ soccer get a whole lot more worked up then the boys parents do.
Here is what I think should happen. MTA board should suspend MA and hire or provide a new coach for the team immediately. The MTA board should bring the incident to MYSA w/the-following recommendations:
MA serves a 2 years suspension from coaching/training any teams affiliated w/MYSA or Club Soccer. (The Club Soccer part will be hard to do) MA is banned from coaching at any State Cup Event for life.
What was the penalty for WH when he threatened that his players would not make the HS team if they tried out for for soccer clubs other than the one in the high school's community?
This is the time for the Thunder ownership to clean house. Poll all MTA parents and get their input. Then fire all the coaches identified that do not meet Thunder Code Of Conduct. The Thunder would be better off without these individuals and would increase their respect in Minnesota Youth Soccer.
I just looked there were out of 198 posts only 3 brave souls using there name. So the ones that claim that were all hiding hes right we are. Both for MTA and against. I think because its easier to remain that way and speak freely then to come out and say to our neighbors and friends hey this guy screwed up I can only speculate whats going to happen so im going rant about it anonymously so at least my voice is heard. I doubt MYSA or MT are looking at this board. But if they were they are seeing every end of the spectrum. Does anyone know do AK and MA have a copy of the rules that say gee if you throw the game it might come back to bite you in the A$$
please either capitialize at the start of your sentences, or be consitent with no caps throughout your post. The fact that you were not consistent in your post is causing real mentle and emotional strane.
And don't use all caps as that is shouting.
Yes I do know how to spell but I thought I would get under some people's skin with poor spelling, punctuation and lack of attention to dtail in my post.
Folks, the idea that AK didn't know it was going to happen is ludicrous. It's a very small circle of people that coach in MN, we all know each other, and we've been talking about this situation hypothetically within our own subgroups all winter. In my club, the director and 4-5 of the coaches have had this exact discussion about 'what do you think about their plan . . . ', 'what would you do . . .', 'Do you think his (MA's) reasoning is correct . . .' It was well known to have been discussed by both MA & AK. I don't know who posted it earlier, but I also don't think it should have gotten to that point. AK should have disagreed vehemently with MA and done so to the MTA board back when it was first discussed. He'd then have plausible deniability. As for the comment that AK wouldn't stop any action that pads his coaching w/l record, or something to that effect, you obviously don't know AK. I think he's young and agreed to something he probably shouldn't have, but it wasn't for selfish reasons. I find him to be extremely self-effacing and modest. I like the earlier solution of forfeit for the U12s, replay the game with the second place team from their bracket v. the 13s. Sanction MA and AK for whatever penalty is appropriate (there has to be USYSA precedent for this). Then move on.
3:03 that makes the most sense, the 12's should forefeit, and the 13's play the next in line after the 12's there is still time this weekend to make that happen. I do think both teams need new leadership. That both coaches for the season need to take it off. Both are great coaches but they both need to realize there actions were wrong. Its not fair to the 13's not to be given the chance to advance but they need to do it fairly. Leave it to them to make the choice either forfeit to next in line or replay to the next in line.
Bottom line folks...even if AK knew this was possible he couldn't prevent MA from carrying it out. Your eagerness to penalize a group of innocent girls speaks volumes of your interests on this issue.
3:03 - could you provide the details of "It was well known to have been discussed by both MA & AK". What did the discussion detail? What did they decide? Did they fill you in on this or is your information second or even third hand? You seem to be "in the know". Either that or just more speculation from unsubstantiated sources.
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Suspension yes, getting fired no way
Getting fired is not the appropriate punishment, its to harsh. Come on people he made a bad decision, he did not kill anyone or physical injured anyone. He has stepped up and apologized more than most of you people could ever do, he admitted a mistake probably something most of you have never done. Grow up!
954, Is the U13 coach guilty if he knew the game would be thrown and did nothing to stop it?? This is a serious question? Please respond.
no, what could he do? tell the other players to make the penalties, you can't control the other team
Come on, if you can't post a intelligent response, don't post. Show a bit of control. If 9:50 were to be happy a couple of boys teams should forfeit their games in order to appease the SSM gods. I mean whatever soccer gods there are, the whole discussion is a bit far out.
Mr. MTA (9:42)
EP did not forfiet their game at half time. The game was stopped with about 10 minutes left because they did not have enough players to continue because of injuries. They started the game with 11, went down a player early in the second half because of a head injury. There were a couple more girls that were playing hurt and the coach wanted to take them off.
That's a bit differenct than quitting at halftime because you're down by 5 or 6.
You should all calm down - MTA should have made a stand on this earlier. MA has been very vocal and clear on his stand on this - it's written all over his website. Any parents who say they weren't aware are oblivious, and probably believed their DDs would win. He's been very clear about the U12s playing State Cup -that it's for the experience, and helps them when they are true 13s as they are more comfortable and familiar with the tournament and it's somewhat unique rules, formats, etc. Would you have preferred he just put a player in goal who wasn't comfortable there? That alone may have been enough to change the outcome of the game without putting himself in what to him was a difficult situation.
It will be interesting how MYSA rules on this because it is clearly against MN State Cup Rules.
Really - what State Cup rule?
Anon 7:48,
Are you going to penalize Abboud's team? They already lost!
Are you going to penalize the opposing team who had no control over the situation?
What would you do?
Indeed. Plus there is no "rule" that addresses a situation like this.
Page 28 of Championship Rules. Maybe MTA/MA should have checked into it:
"...If the Minnesota State Cup Director and Administrative Committee determines
that a particular action by a team or any of its players, coaches, team officials or spectators is deemed
unacceptable for any reason, the team may be disqualified, sanctioned, requested to play another
qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance, and/or
face forfeiture of one or more games. Examples of such action include, but are not limited to: suspected
forfeiture or otherwise determining the outcome of a game with the design or purpose of controlling the
advancement of any team from its own group or any other group, intentionally losing a game, or
unnecessarily running a score up for no purpose other than to humiliate opponents...."
well... that's clearer. MYSA will go headhunting on this, and the fact he has pretty much admitted to it give them license to take his head off.
Believe me, MYSA will LEAP at this opportunity because it will appease their throngs of community clubs who hate the evil empire.
MA, based on the rule above, could be absolutely hammered by the club and MYSA - but if MYSA goes after the whole club they are grossly overstepping and just trying to appease the townsfolk outside the castle with their torches and pitchforks. They have to be careful themselves as word is USYSA is eyeballing them very carefully because of some recent happenings.
Thanks for posting the rule, however this does not appear to affect the winning team IMHO.
...and the key question is whether there was knowledge and complicity by the coach of the MTA U13s. If so, that "particluar action" may be deemed "unacceptable" by MYSA and the result could be declaration of a DOUBLE FORFEIT by both MTA U12s and U13s.
Not that would be a lesson to MTA and Mr. Abboud.
Would be a shame for the EP girls, not to have an opponent, but they'll have fun at regionals.
Of course the U13 coach was aware of what was going on, the two coaches are close friends.
"They have to be careful themselves as word is USYSA is eyeballing them very carefully because of some recent happenings."
Care to expand if you are going to throw that out there?
What's next......"every coach at MTA knew and they had an off-site meeting to discuss this scenario and how to implement it". Even if the U13 coach possibly knew that the U12 coach was going to do this, how was he going to stop him? Seriously, the hate (and/or MTA jealousy) is getting the best of a few of you out there.
Here's the sad part. There are a lot of good championship games coming up and this is all anyone can talk about.
If you take his blog at face value, and I do because he pretty much blatantly describes the decision making process - doesn't seem it was premeditated at all and therefor the U13 coach would have had nothing to do with it.
What is he supposed to do even if he realizes its happening??? Instruct his players to intentionally miss also so we have a never ending shootout?
Remember people, you may hate MTA but by calling for the U13s to forfeit you are punishing a bunch of 13 year old girls who essentially didn't ask for any of this and did EXACTLY what they were supposed to do, played hard and fair.
Is that what you want? You're so angry at MA and MTA you want to take this away from a group of 13 year olds??? If you're going to get on your soap box you better be willing to admit what you're preaching for, and while you're at it get a much larger box to stand on, because you're apparently very, very, very small indeed.
unfortunately 9:26, there are more than a few folks out there who do want what you describe (and they might not openly admit, but I'm sure there are a few EP folks included).
The coach/team that used poor judgement lost. Evidently he's acknowledged he made a very poor decision somewhere.
(Who has the time to read blogs about other kids' teams?)
Use a little common sense folks. If you don't like Abboud that's your prerogative but don't bash the U13 girls players or others in the club for one person's poor judgement.
What kind of logic would have someone penalize the winning players who were innocent victims of this action?
Nope, the 13s shouldn't be disqualified. However, they should have to earn their spot in the finals like every other team.
My proposal - the u12 girls forfeit all games played, this will create a new representative out of their bracket (PRL, I believe??), and that team should be allowed the opportunity to play the 13s.
This is a win/win. The 13s will likely get the victory and advance to the finals KNOWING THEY EARNED IT. Further, it would show them that decisions have consequences (even if they weren't the ones who made the decision). The PRL team would get the opportunity to represent their bracket with class, and get another game.
MA should face further consequences, of course, but the above is a fair play solution.
7:43am - He did make that clear, but what if they were playing a non mta team? Would he have still thrown the game? He put himself and his team in a bad situation that didn't need to be!
10:25 - that's not an objectionable solution, actually quite rational.
10:25 - your propsal makes sense and there is time to do it if MYSA wants to pursue. I believe they will not.
10:25 - Great idea. You need to contact MYSA with it.
10:25 - not a bad idea rounding up your PL parents....
I am predicting MTA wins between 8-10 State Cup titles that would put them at a tie or even better then last year.
19 Girls will win for sure
18 Girls already won
17 Woodbury is the class by far
16 EP
15 All MTA final, blue team better
14 MTA wins
13 MTA Wins
5 on the girls side
Boys
19 who know
18 MTA won
17 should be a great game
16 very interesting match with MTA White in and blue out of the final
15 MTA easily
14 MTA easily
13 MTA easily
16 boys win would give MTA 10, that is impressive and the 16 girls will get the MWRL spring spot so a record 11 teams at Regionals.
Why not have the MTA U13's play the MTA U12's again and not allow Abboud to coach?
Why should the girls on his team who earned the right to be there blocked from playing in another match if that is the decision?
Don't penalize the kid's on that team for a coach's decision.
We're dealing with 11 and 12 year old girls who did nothing wrong.
Let's not penalize the innocent kids because you want to bring an adult down.
This is about the kids. Think about it before posting something vindictive intending to penalize an adult but instead will more negatively impact the girls.
It's a messy situation but don't penalize those who are innocent in attempt to hurt MA.
Yes the parents knew MA was going to throw the game. That IMHO is what makes it even worse, knowing what he was going to do and the coach actually doing it is wrong on both sides. IMHO the parents need to accept almost as much of the blame as the coach.
10:40,
Don't count your chickens before they hatch.
As we've seen all through this tournament the favored team doesn't always win.
Injuries, weather or just a lucky bounce or two can make the difference on any given day.
I understand the logic of not penalizing the players but... If this doesn't happen where is the pressure to "encourage" a coach to be ethical?
10:40. I think those are solid predictions (at least on the girls side, don't know much about the boys).
I thought for a while the 15 white team would win that game, but in the face of the 12/13 controversy, I don't think the blues can afford to lose that game or the conspiracy theorists will be out in full force. I don't think MC can rest his top players for that game nor, like he might have. Let's just hope no one gets hurt.
If the whites do win at 15, MTA could have 12 teams at regionals.
If MTA has 12 teams at regionals there will be a few folks whose heads will explode at just the mere thought of it. My hunch is 8 as there will be a few upsets along the way. BTW, good call on the U13 boys final.......
Pollyanna,
My DD would not be allowed to play for the coach in the first place.
Love,
Mrs. R
which is the best game on the girls side? the 13s has melodrama but i wouldn't expect to see compelling soccer. 15-19 seems lopsided. i don't know much about the u14 age but it sounds like both did well at mrl and most people from the beginning predicted this matchup. are the teams any good or is it still boot ball?
don't over look the U16 game. Wayzata has quietly played outstanding soccer during the tournament and will give EP all they can handle (EP had to struggle to beat SCV in their semi). One game - anything can happen.
The best game for quality of soccer, will be the U15 game. Both teams try to play soccer, however it is an MTA vs MTA battle and may not provide the drama you are looking for.
I would say the U14 game may be a very good one, have not seen much of B-ville but I do know that MTA does try to play. They have some very good technical players and some very dynamic forwards.
EP-Way will be a good game, hard fought but not much for quality as both teams rely on one forward to win them games.
U17 final is a waste of time, no contest.
U13 will have lots of drama and people rooting against one team, however EP is only as good as their one forward is and she may struggle against the athletic backline of MTA.
This is a fun discussion.
Any attempt by MYSA to punish the U13 MTA team or the club itself will once again show their vindictive nature. If anyone is to blame, and by his own admission, it's the coach who made a very poor decision.
I agree with the above proposed solution. 12s forfeit all their games, Prior Lake's 13s advance and play MTA early next week in another semifinal.
12:15 MTA Homer much??
Sorry everyone no re do's. Two directors of the Minnesota Thunder academy colluded to throw the game once it went to PK's. These are not just coaches but DIRECTORS of the club. Both were aware of what was going on, both agreed to it(read MA's blog he says he had talked to AK about this senerio) and both need to be punished. Unfortunately in life and soccer periodically someone who has a controlling interest in our lives makes a mistake that we pay for. In soccer it may be poor coaching descisions on play time or putting the players in the wrong positions that cost a game, or in extreme situations like this it may be a coach putting the best interest of the club in front of the players. In life we all have to live with and suffer through descisions made by our parents,our bosses,our Government etc. were we to blame for our company going broke due to the stupidity of our management? No but we still pay the price of a loss of a job. When a parent doesn't help their child with the kids Math or reading and hence forth that child falls behind at school the kid suffers not because of anything they did but rather as a consequence of what that childs parents actions were.
Bottom Line: the kids at MTA did nothing wrong but their coaches did and the integrity of the State Cup is at stake here. The game was thrown by two coaches who are also directors of the same club. The game should be declared a double forfeit and EP should be declared the champion. Sorry to the kids but I am sure they will learn a bigger lesson if the enforcement of the ethical standards of sports is adhered to instead of learning that it is OK to violate the ethical standards that I believe all of us know are correct. meaning it is wrong to "rig" the outcome of any game.
It is OK to switch gears? 12:01 mentioned the U16 Wayzata game, sounds like it was an upset. Any game reports?
sorry 12:51 your logic abou about tosing the winning tam doesnt hold up. The U13 girls did not throw the game, they made their, shots some went in some were saved. No rigging done by the U13 team.
1259 - The coach knew and didn't protest what was going on.
The U13 team did nothing wrong.
Did you want their GK to step aside and let the balls roll into the net?
Anyone who wants to penalize the U13 team is grinding an axe with Abboud and MTA. Simple as that.
Adults who want to punish a team of U13 girls who did no wrong are displaying judgment as poor as Abboud did with his decision.
Grow up and put your petty grievances aside.
It's about the kids.
1:11 - you knew he was going to do this for a fact? Be careful with your accusations - you probably know the expressions about assumptions........
We should all let EP win. It's been way too long for a club of that size not to have won a state cup. In this age of building "self-esteem", where's the love?
12:51. The two coaches in question are directors as you say. They are howver not part of the MTA board. According to the MTA Web site, "The MTA Executive Board is aware of an incident at State Cup this past weekend. It was a coach's decision that came into question; an individual decision, and it was not supported by the club. We are looking into it further to deem whether any disciplinary action is needed."
The members of the board are also listed on the MTA Web site http://www.mnthunder.com/academy/igsbase/igstemplate.cfm?SRC=DB&SRCN=&GnavID=14&SnavID=56
Neither of the coaches in question are on the board.
1:17- Seriously? "Let" EP win? If they win, good for them, and congrats to the club. If they lose, then they gave it a good run, and even being runner-up in state is a success.
If the coach talked with HIS team prior to any of this going down, and the players all agreed, then nothing wrong happened. Its the parents that are making the huge deal about this U13 game. What were you playing for anyway?? The World U13 Championship where you get lotz of prizes?? Get off the coaches back. Its his team, not the parents who think they are the bosses.
1:13 MA's blog indicates he talked through this senerio with AK which indicates to me that yes he knew what was going on. I think both coaches who are great friends and coworkers did have this plan in place, I know if you read the blog by MA he certainly indicates this to be the case. It was bad judgement by the two coaches who are directors according to the MTA web site MA is listed as the Technical director and AK is the East regional academy director.
I agree with many above that this game was tainted and the unfortunate reality is :when rules are broken and you get caught, punishment must be administered. Sadly these coaches actions affect many others and because of that some innocent girls are learning one really tough life lesson.
1:24 Are you serious! The head coach comes to a bunch of 11-13year olds and says what he wants them to do, what do you expect the kids to do? Of course they do what they are told, he is the coach. But then you to say because they agreed it is OK!?!? Really!
Maybe this point has already been made...but isn't throwing the game obviously unfair to the EP girls, who may, if the U12s had somehow pulled it off through PKs, had the good fortune to meet the weaker MTA team (in both MTA coaches' eyes) in the final?
124, please tell me you are not that clueless!! You obviously know nothing about competition, ethics, or morals. The coach has an obligation no matter what the level or age. Lotz of prizes, most athletes especially the younger ones (excluding professionals) play for the trill of competition and the trill of victory and accomplishment. Just so you get it, the parents are the ultimate bosses. I would bet money some of those kids had no idea until right before MA told them right before the shootout what was going on. IMHO the parents should take some of the blame for this. The sad thing is I believe most of the outrage is coming from outside the club. Some because they hate MTA, but most feel horrible about what happened to those young girls. Those players would never agree to throw a game, they fortunately know the difference between right and wrong.
I'll let all know that much outrage is coming from WITHIN the MTA club as well. I'm an MTA parent -- on the boys side, however -- and I am astouded by the arrogance, guile, self-absorption and frankly, stupidity, shown by these coaches. Hope the MTA "executive board" is not mesmerized and takes some significant actions.
so outraged you're willing to post anonymously on an internet blog.
Am I the only one thinking the recent MA scenario would never happen if he were coaching a boys team?
I can't see male players or the parents of males sitting idly by, at the beginning of a season, if presented with the possible throwing of a game.
Yep - you are the only one. But thanks for demeaning women athletes and the people who encourage them.
People, if this happened to your daughters team, figure out your personal stance (maybe even include your daughter), do something if needed, and live with it.
If this did not occur to your daughter's team, shut your pie hole. You have no idea what you really would feel like or what you will really do until it actually happens to you.
If you dislike MTA, don't play for them. But if you are this competitive, do something to compete with them.
If you dislike MA don't play for him, oh yeah you can't you're not a player.
Try to find some enjoyment in your child's life, not just jealousy-not everyone is a winner. The sooner you figure this out the better your daughters and our country will be.
If you dislike everyone except yourself, get some help.
Does anyone have anything positive to say about their team, club? Stick to what you know, and try to be an adult!
So your point is that "games are being fixed in youth soccer but if your team isn't involved than you have nothing to say about it".
Dumbest post I ever read in my life.
There's not a great deal to say about MTA that is positive. I think this incident is indicative of that.
224 I disagree 100%, the same thing would have happened regardless who it was. The parents on this team are some of the most competitive people you will meet ( A Good thing). Where do you think their kids get their competiveness from. Of course they weren't happy about it and did voice their disapproval. There only option was to hope the coach wouldn't follow through with what he said. There only other option was to quit and find another club, which is much easier said than done in the middle of the winter along with the problem of splitting up friendships it makes it very difficult.
It seems the decision was made with the idea that this team would have a strong chance to move on to the Finals then Regional's in the future. One or more of these kids may never get that opportunity due to team attrition, injuries, etc. I would guess there will be more fall out in the long run than short term.
Some people don't want to admit it but MA is one of the best coaches/trainers out there, his results speak for themselves, and I assume parents will still want their kids on his team.
336 I hope you don't justify his behavior because he is a great coach and trainer. I as a parent wouldn't settle for just that, they better be someone with leadership skills and integrity.
No matter how good of a coach he is and I agree he is probably the best in MN, he has no right to determine the outcome of a game. As for some kids not getting this chance again - you can apply that to every kid in the tournament.
He is a very good trainer and recruiter, but the best coach, I think what he just did takes him off the list. There are so many attributes that make a great coach.
i bet if you polled the parents on the team, almost to a family, they all want him to remain on as coach (now we will have a few posts about what a bunch of dumb parents they are).
Most of you do a wonderful job of passing yourselves off as adults. NOT.
I have no daughter playing ball anymore (haven't for several years), but if I were MYSA I would just tell USYSA that NOBODY is going to regionals from Minnesota at U13 because two coaches, both directors from the same club, intentionally threw a match to predetermine the outcome.
If they were coaches/directors in my club, I'd want them out. Complain and whine all you want about this, that and the next thing, but the reality is THEY CHEATED. If their "punishment" is going to be a slap on the wrist and no dessert, the club deserves whatever criticism comes their way.
From what I read (or at least try to read), if SSM had done the same thing, ALL of you would want them sacked for an eternity. Thrown out of MYSA. Tarred and feathered. Or worse. But no, it's MA, so he gets a pass.
It's crap.
434, you may be suprised.
The great hockey goalie, Patrick Roy, once remarked back to an opponent who was criticizing him that "he couldn't hear him because he had his two Stanley Cup rings in his ears". I doubt MTA will pay much attention to the comments on this blog as from what I hear the internet connections aren't very good in Sioux Fall, SD.
4:38 - is your daughter on the team? If so, speak up.
4:35,
I'll chime in as others have.
You can't penalize the U13 players who won the game.
They did nothing wrong.
Bash MA all you want as it was his decision.
It is ridiculous to even suggest penalizing the team and players who were not in control of the situation.
4:38 - ???, if your daughter is on the team, please expound. your previous comments lead me to believe she is as how else would you know what the families are thinking.
Yes please post the drama in your family on the internet so we can read it. Good TV doesn't start until 7pm.
Players regularly pay the price for coaches that do unethical things. That is why it is so important to have ethical coaches in place at all levels. Also, MA that best trainer in MN? Not necessarily, there are many as good. He has more of the best players at 13 that's all.
What all of this confirms the #1 priority of the club is money and egos. Your kids are just pawns in the scheme of things.There are many unhappy players and parents within MTA. Names of coaches and facts will be posted in the near future.
Big announcement expected from MTA tomorrow! I can't say more than that at this time.
6:11,
Why wait? Post them now.
And if you have a pair you'll post your name along with the names you list.
But that's too much to expect from you I'm going to guess.
Are you man enough?
2:54 you are a stupid, weak person. I'm sure your child already suffers from your stupidity, so how much would they suffer if they changed coaches.
No way MYSA or USYSA will punish the player or the other teams. But I hope the do sanction the coach (bar him from MYSA activity for at least 1 year) and the club (how about a big fat fine?) Maybe the state should look into the players well being if the parents were so dumb to leave MA in place after saying he would fix the results of a game.
There are many unhappy players and parents in every club at this level. Get real. MTA doesn't have the corner on that. Having been at the MRL/Premier level for a few years I would say about 4-5 players/families are unhappy every year. They are a combination of player/parents who think they can do better and who think their kid should be playing more.
As far as "if SSM had done the same thing, ALL of you would want them sacked for an eternity." if I were a SSM parent I would be VERY quiet, your coaches behavior at State Cup may have put you in a glass house. I wouldn't be throwing any rocks.
Anyone know where I can get a "Threw the game for my coach" Skillzy?
4:44 The players on neither side did anything wrong. The coaches collaborated to throw the game. Read MA's blog he admits it. They played it straight until/if there was an overtime and then if that happened they would give the game to the 13's. Tough lesson for the kids on both sides. Bad deal for all of the MN soccer community especially the MTA girls. Game must end in a double Forfeit. See rule section from above 8:43 AM
Isnt MA an assistant coach for the Thunder pro team? I wonder what the professional soccer league sanctioning commitee would think of this?
I have yet to read anything that states both coaches were in on this. Would someone please cut and paste that confirmation for me?
7:02 here, anyone?
From what I've heard there was nothing the opposing coach could have done. It wasn't his team giving the game away.
Anybody who thinks blaming the U13 team or coach for this isn't thinking straight.
What was the U13 coach supposed to do? Tell his goal keeper to let the passes go in?
Think before you stick your foot in your mouth.
6:11 - I am sure the 30+ MTA players who signed national letters of intent this spring would agree with you. HA
some girls predictions
17-woodbury
16-good match up but EP will end up on top
15-MTA blue will win for sure
14-MTA
13-interesting scenerio but MTA will win
Well, this sure got all the MTA U13s parents on here quick.
From Abboud's website, I assume this is safe to post if he put it on his website for the public to see.
RE: If he faced the U13s this year in State Cup.
"That 12 v 13 final last year was played back to back with the U14 final; a final that saw my girls go to PKs against our White team. I remember talking to Andy (the U12 coach) after that game, saying that I wish I would have been with him (and not engrossed in my own game) as I would have likely encouraged him to have his players pass the ball to the GK for their PKs and send the true U13s to Regionals.
I remember discussions with my own team's parents last year after that, and again this year in parent meetings regarding this very subject. When I gave them my yearly plan for the team, a plan that included State Cup participation, some of them asked (knowing what I had said about Andy's 12s last year) if we were going into the State Cup tournament only to throw an eventual deciding match to our 13 Blue team if we got there. I said last fall and again in an early winter parent meeting that if it came down to a controllable moment, I would probably find a way to let the 13s go through over our team."
RE: Telling his team to miss the penalties
"I told them I was so proud of their efforts, but I wanted them to step up and pass the ball to the U13 GK when it was their turn to shoot. Shocked looks and gasps of "What?!?!" greeted that instruction."
RE: His players reactions afterwards
"The look of disappointment and betrayal that some of them held in their eyes was crushing to me. I was so frustrated with the whole thing that I accidentally said "Some of you are going to be poutty and b-i-t-c-h-y to me because of this, but I hope you understand my thought process." I've never used that language with a youth team before, though I'm sure they've heard far worse."
Source: Go here to get the entire article.
http://www.roadtoregionals.com/my-soapbox/
730, He could of said Hey MA this is wrong I don't want my girls to be associated with anything like this. Either play it fair or my team will forfeit. MA would have had no other option but to play it straight up. It is that simple. Bet they both wish they would have handled it differently. Before you start saying he didn't know about it. He maybe didn't know how it would happen but he knew it would happen.
My prediction on the big news...somebody is getting fired!
In fairness a bit of the other side also from the site:
"My thougths were a-whirl. The 13s are a better team overall than we were. They would do our club proud at Regionals if they got past either the White team or EP (game was to be played after ours). It would be better for the club and for MN to have them represent the state at the Midwest Region Championships. We were here for the experience. I was silently cheering for the 13s to score a goal.
As the overtime progressed, my thoughts went back to my previous State Cup experience.
Back in 2004, I had the current U17 Woodbury Inferno as U12s. We were playing U13 MYSA league, thus qualified for State Cup competition that year. We drew the Bangu Tsunami Stars in our group and got hammered 8-0. We advanced as a wild card and came up against the Wings U13 team in the semifinals. After regulation and OT ended 0-0, we eventually lost in PKs.
In 2006, I had the current U15 MTA 94 Elite Blues as U12s in the same situation - playing U13 league as a U12 team and competing in the U13 State Cup. We didn't advance out of group play that year.
In both instances, the idea was to get the U12s familiar with the State Cup event in order to feel more comfortable in following years when it really counted - as we looked to represent the state as true U13s. It's the same idea as MYSA's ODP program has. Get players comfortable with the out of state ODP camp at the youngest age groups so that the players can perform better in later years in a no-longer-new environment.
In both instances, the teams went on to represent the State at Regionals as U13s. The Inferno have been the state reps for 4 years straight, the MTA group for 2.
In 2003, the Bangu Tsunami Stars won the U13 State Cup as U12s and moved on to Regionals playing a year up. I think they were actually competitive there as well.
Last year, the Bangu Tsunami 12s beat the Bangu Tsunami 13s in PKs in the MN State Cup final to advance to Regionals, only to get hammered in all 3 games.
I did not want to put my 12s through that Regional experience. Oh, we might have done OK had we drawn 13 teams from ND, SD, or IA. But put us in a group with most other RII states and we'd be asking a lot for the 12s to be competitive."
737, I'm sorry to say but when a coach breaks the rules the teams and the coaches are the ones to pay. It is their responsibility and you put your trust in them and unfortunately sometimes the teams do end up paying the price. I don't think the older girls should pay but I also don't think they should get a free ride through the semi's either. I would definitely have a very candid conversation with the coach of my team. he has a moral obligation to his team and the game itself to make sure things like this don't happen. EP has a huge gripe.
silently cheering for the other team to win is pathetic. He has no right to coach kids based on that statement alone.
??? How does EP have a gripe?
624 please elaborate on your comments with your assault.
Maybe EP would have had a better chance against the U12 team and thus a better chance to advance to regions. Upsets happen all the time and i'm guessing they would have preferred to play the younger team.
Give EP some credit. They want to beat the best to be the best. They don't need someone else to lnock anyone off for them. Don't count them out in the final. I am glad they are playing the 13's.
No need to worry about who EP plays ...because they will be going to regionals on a forfeit of the final game. No Mta team will play because , as posted above MA admitted this was the plan he and AK had from the beginning (8:49). The only way anyone plays EP if MYSA and the State Cup sanctioning board allow the next "best" team in.
Page 28 of Championship Rules. Maybe MTA/MA should have checked into it:
"...If the Minnesota State Cup Director and Administrative Committee determines
that a particular action by a team or any of its players, coaches, team officials or spectators is deemed
unacceptable for any reason, the team may be disqualified, sanctioned, requested to play another
qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance, and/or
face forfeiture of one or more games. Examples of such action include, but are not limited to: suspected
forfeiture or otherwise determining the outcome of a game with the design or purpose of controlling the
advancement of any team from its own group or any other group, intentionally losing a game, or
unnecessarily running a score up for no purpose other than to humiliate opponents...."
I can't tell if that means Dakota Rev or Prior Lake gets through. Prior Lake is the next best in the bracket but Dakota Rev is next best in the State Cup based on points and tie breaker. (white was actually better than Rev but already lost in a "straight" semi-final game.) I say they will call a double forfeit rather than bring in Rev or PL for a "do over".
I hope all have learned from this experience, I especially feel for the MTA girls who were victims of some really bad leadership.
Nice to see you guys made the homepage of the Star Tribune (Jon Tevlin's column). Way to go!
the full 90 minnutes were played.
and two 10 minnute over times.
the score was still 1-1
if the u12s made it this far in the older bracket they are sure to do fine next year in thier own age.
it was the u13's time and the u12's time will come also. but in the end looking at the bigger prespective is all that went down. and somehow that got put into the startribune? that shows how much bad news travels faster then good.
if the u13s would have been able to score more and in the game and win it none of this would of ever happened. and if they won, there would be no drama. but since an adult made a poor deciscion somehow everyone knows? life goes on the u12s have had thier share of glory and wins belive me. and there are so much more for them to come, including regionals at their own age next year.
If MTA lets go of MA it may be the single unifying moment in MN Soccer to date as now there would be no one to hate and the respectability of the club would be elevated. MTA has lightning in a bottle right now if the act on it.
Unlike, the blog. The concerns regarding SSM coaches were handled in a more professional manner. With the school. Unless you have a DD on the teams you don't really need to know. If you do have a DD on the team call the school.
How long did it take MA to get Tevlin on the phone? This has passive-aggressive written all over it. Vintage MA.
not a bad article. i'm sure both sides will read into whatever they want to.
http://www.startribune.com/local/45449567.html?page=1&c=y
Wow, he even got the parents to blame themselves.
10:18 - so true, before every practice he has them all stand in front of him and he waves a pocket watch in front of them and hypnotizes them. some of you folks are so sad. so very, very sad. i keep thinking your lives might be very empty if he is let go, but then i realized that you will just point your hatred at someone or something else.
there are not 2 sides to a coach telling an 12 year to take a dive.
By no means should MA be fired.he is a brilliant coach,perhaps the best MTA has to offer. The players and parents are extremely fortunate to have a coach like MA.one mistake should not define him as a bad soccer coach.
My view on things.?
On any given day any team can beat any other team. Unless their coach tells them no to. Then of course it is no longer a game is it.
The saddest part was the reasoning that the team (u12) would be humiliated if they went to regions; so being forced to throw the game was less humiliating than being beaten fair and square on a soccer field in regions.
WOW
Egads, 11:12! Get a grip. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe an outrageous statement like 'one mistake should not define him . . .'??? I respect MA as a colleague and friend, but I doubt anyone in their right mind would claim that this is his only mistake as a coach/administrator for MTA/Bangu. I don't think most of his mistakes are of this magnitude, nor do I put the malicious spin on them that some on here do, but mistakes have been made prior to this whopper.
Where is the U-16G EP Coach from? I don't know if there were any adjustments made at half time by EP Coach or not but, one of the best comebacks I have witnessed in youth soccer.
St. Croix team was the much better team technicaly, with great athletes. How can a team with much better soccer players lose to a less technical team?
How can EP win against SSM? I am scratching my head. Isn't this a true soccer ACADEMY?
I am confused! Does TACTICS in youth soccer outweigh TECHNICAL ability?
My predictions for the Final: Wayzata 2 EP 0
1112, has MA ever coached one of your kids?
How many times do people have to hear that the opposing coach had no control over the situation before they get it?
What could he have done to stop the opposing players from kicking directly at his keeper?
Abboud made the mistake. He's admitted that. The opposing coach couldn't do anything to stop what occurred.
Seriously...if you were the opposing team's coach and you saw this happening what could you do? Anyone?
It's obvious the bloggers who want to penalize the U13 team aren't thinking logically and letting their past grievances and animosity towards MA and MTA cloud any logical thought process.
It's the same tired old rant we've heard on this blog the past few years.
I don't think its a matter of the actual 13's they want to punish but its the coach letting the other coach throw the game. Its not up to the rants on this board but more MYSA and MTA. My guess is there going to take the state cup away from MTA on the 13 age level and give it to the next up in line. Those will be the two on Saturdays Match. Its clearly stated if someone intentionally throws the game, both teams are involved. And knowing that the 13's coach knew as per the blogs hes just as much at fault. The kids are going to be the ones to suffer. It was a poor choice by the coachs but its going to be one that the kids have to live with.
I think there is a double standard, even within MTA. It seems that anything MA or AK do is okay. Look at last year. The current 14s were in the same position and AK had the younger team. He was a hero for having his team soundly outplayed but upsetting the older team. Now this year, he's handed a victory and (in my opinion) will still brag about his accomplishment. If someone other than AK was coaching the 13s it might have been a different story. It's all about AK and I believe he should share some responsibility here.
He could have done a lot of things about this situation. He could have told MA he didn't want to win that way when he saw what was happening. He could have instructed his keeper to let one or two in to keep the shootout going. But no, he stood by and let it happen. In my opinion he knew it was going to happen and was smiling all the way to his "fake" final appearance.
To me, the article shows he is more interested in saving his own backside even if it means throwing the rest of the Thunder organization under the bus.
The Thunder board seems to be willing to get thrown under the bus too.
7:22 - they haven't even made a decision yet. geeesh, cool your jets.
I think this is a chance for MYSA to show it is still relevant. They should suspend the entire club (boys and girls) for one year, effective immediately. That would mean a forfeit of the state cup finals any MTA team is scheduled to play, forfeiting any remaining league games and not being eligible for any competition until May 18 of next year.
That would not only send a strong message to the soccer community that MYSA cares about the integrity of its tournaments and leagues, it would also ensure nothing like the ever takes place again.
8:28 - LOL......you are being saracastic - aren't you? with a few folks on this you can never be certain.
8:28 MYSA would never suspend a whole club for 2 coaches actions. Could they kick those two teams out of the tournament yes, but not the entire organization.
My tongue was firmly planted in my cheek, I apologize for that. I should have said that up top. I was trying to show how ridiculous this whole conversation really is.
8:39,
One more time. I think I'm about the 5th person to say this.
What could the U13 coach do to stop Abboud's team just knocking the ball directly to the GK?
What could he have done?
You can't penalize the U13 team for the actions of the opposing coach and players.
What kind of twisted logic is that?
8:45 - you should know by now that everyone who makes that comment has a bigger ulterior motive. I have yet to see anything anywhere that states the coach was in on it and better yet to your point - what could he have done? The folks writing that fall into two categories:
1) - those who want to "over-punish" MTA for who they are and any perceived on their part past "mistakes"
2) - those with a vested interest in past and future U13 state cup outcomes.
this story has been Christmas morning for the MTA haters. They are all at the gates with pitchforks and torches.
All they've managed to demonstrate thus far is what giant tool boxes they all are. If MTA comes back and doesn't act to punish him for this, or if they fail to punish him and then MYSA lets it slide to, then I'll join in the "outrage," but for now maybe all of you should shut your "anonymous" mouths and wait and see how this is handled.
9:15- This is a discussion board. It's reason for existing is for individuals to voice their opinions. People may dislike the MTA opeation and how they carry on business. This doesn't mean they are "haters" -(your terminology).
Does anyone think the 13 coach had no idea this was going to happen? Come on, that is not probable.
9:33,
For arguments sake what if he knew it was possible?
Do you think anyone would truly believe that it would actually occur?
Once it was apparent after the 1st player kicked the ball to the keeper how could he have stopped it?
Well, I wondered how long it would take. Someone posted all of this dirty laundry on BigSoccer.com with Coaches RoadtoRegionals blogsite. Nottin like sharing with the whole country about this U13 mess. Way to go MNFUTBOL :(
Hope you feel better with yourself.
someone really needs to dig hard to find this on BigSoccer.com. even then, mnfutbol's comments were pretty even keeled.
Come on people,lets not act Naive. On MA's blog he indicated that he and AK talked about this possibility. The two are both "directors" at MTA, They are very good friends and talk all the time. "I think" (want to avoid any possible litigation) that it is undeniable that AK knew about this well ahead of time. I think several others knew about this ahead of time ie: the 12 parents were reportedly told this at a parents meeting, If the 12 parents knew does anyone really think the coach,fellow director, and very good friend of MA was unaware? Lets be real. The best thing for MTA to do is fess up and try to move on next year. Either EP is crowned champ or the next best team is inserted in place of the Blue 13's. The game was manipulated by two coaches who made a bad descision, Penalties must exist, unfortunately the MTA 12 and 13 year old girls will have to pay the price for their coaches very bad choices.
I have to believe the Thunder pro team is very uneasy about how this reflects on them too. Not good to have someone on your coaching staff or in your organization busted for game rigging. How many times has this happenned before? at what level of play? Pro?
I think it's good that it was posted. Hopefully this will cause some change that is badly needed. My suspicion though is that this has happened other places before. I think people accept it which I find disappointing and tragic. Many will hide behind the "overall benefit" of a "club" like MTA ("they raise the quality of MN soccer"-not!) and it's goings-on.
I think it does happen quite a bit in states with much stronger clubs structures. Many states organizations are small potatoes, MYSA probably has more $$ and power than most state organizations. Which is why we have alot of drama. MYSA is always trying to appease two masters, and stay in control. I think in other states with strong club structures MA would not have a blog. I think in other states this would have been taken care of by the club, not up for discussion on a blog where little or thing can be accomplished.
10:22,
Once again...what could the U13 coach done to stop the opposing players from kicking the ball to his keeper?
What would you have done if you were in the U13 coach's shoes?
You can make all the charges and accusations you want but looking at it rationally what could the U13 coach have possibly done once he saw this happen on the 1st PK?
Please tell us what you would have done.
10:22 - please see 9:54's comments. Love to hear your response other than what you think the punishment should be.
10:07 Don't blame the messenger. Don't cheat and you have nothing to worry about. BTW it's not like this was a secret it was in the Star Tribune.
It's easy to see MA's passion for the game and for his young players. However, he's taken it too far, over-thinking everything to the point where his judgment has been clouded.
This is a terrible folly that appears to be haunting him. MA shouldn't be fired and he shouldn't quit. He should improve and regroup from this. Outside of this error, MA has been one of Minnesota's top soccer ambassadors dating back to the days he played. More importantly, he is great for most of his players and teams.
I think he got caught up in the whole MTA / Academy vision, thus forgetting his primary role as a coach of 16 girls a U12 team. As shown in his wordy blog writings, he's quite simply over-thinking and over-analyzing.
He's too good for the game to quit. Perhaps some new scenery would be good, such as an older team on the boys side where he can be reminded of the simpler things in soccer like "you play to win the game."
It would be a huge loss to MN soccer if MA left.
This has happened before at the National Level. You may have seen the video on you tube, if not go look it up. Eclipse and PDA threw a game at nationals once they both knew they were into the finals. For sixty minutes the ball never crossed midfield. Dallas Texans parents were arrested because of this and guess what, no one was punished. Nothing is going to happen to the U13 team, they are not a fault. MA may face some sanctions but you cannot punish 13 year old for something they had no control over.
10:40 Because AK knew of this possibility or plan for the shootout as soon as he saw the first kick he could have looked over to his good friend MA (they are standing right next to each other)and questioned the actions. If he believed it was wrong he could have said so after the first kick.
Now a different senerio. If the two had no relationship and were not part of the same club I would feel there is no responsibility of the benefiting team to do anything.
The issue here is the past discussions, the relationship and the fact that these two are great friends who talk and stratagize all the time, and of course the fact that they both represent teams from the same club.
My opinion is MTA has no choice but to acknowledge these facts and send no team at 13 to the final. If they keep dancing around the issue they will only make it worse. Just my opinion.
10:46-You are kidding, right? MN soccer would be fine with or without MA. You are enamored of MA-that's your choice but come on!
10:50,
I totally disagree.
The U12 coach had zero control over the other teams players.
Even "IF" he knew it was a possibility what could he do once MA had given the instructions to his players?
It would be extremely vindictive to penalize the players and coach who had ZERO control over the other team and who did NOTHING wrong.
Bash MA all you want but use a bit of logic and ask yourself why penalize 18 girls who are 12 and 13 years old.
Here's an idea, why don't you ask the U13 MTA coach if he knew MA was going to throw the game? Hey AK did you know? we know you read the blogs, fess up!!
11:03, Until it actually took place nobody could know for sure. Once it occured what could you do? Put yourself in that position.
What would you do? What could you do?
Please tell me what you would ahve done.
This has obviously become nothing but an argument among logical thinkers who realize the U13 team had no fault in this event and shouldn't be hurt by the opposing team's actions and the bashers who we've seen attacking everything MA and MTA have done for the last 3-4 years.
Same people, same axe to grind, same old story.
Not one of them has been able to say what the U13 coach could have been done to stop it once it became obvious what was happening.
Anonymous said...
This has happened before at the National Level. You may have seen the video on you tube, if not go look it up. Eclipse and PDA threw a game at nationals once they both knew they were into the finals. For sixty minutes the ball never crossed midfield. Dallas Texans parents were arrested because of this and guess what, no one was punished. Nothing is going to happen to the U13 team, they are not a fault. MA may face some sanctions but you cannot punish 13 year old for something they had no control over.
20/5/09 10:47 AM
10:47, were you there?? Nothing happened because nothing happend. This game was NOT, repeat, NOT thrown. Texans would not of advanced anyway due to points, they tied Crossfire the same time Eclipse/PDA was playing. Eclipse was resting most starters, they did not have to win, 90+ degrees in shade, no wind, Eclipse was in the finals no matter how the outcome of the game(s). PDA had to score, which they did, and after that, it wasnt much of a game. The thing most didnt know, the Texans dad ran onto the Eclipse field (Which youtube didnt show) during the game of the Eclipse trying to chance down a Eclipse player. Texans had to win to even have a chance to advance, they didnt!! All teams involved in that had to take care of business, which they did not do. Eclipse beat Texans 1-0 3 points, beat Crossfire 2-1 3 points in bracket, lost to PDA 0-1 then beat PDA 4-0 in Championship. Nothing was thrown. Texans was beat by Eclipse 0 points, tied PDA 1 point, tied Crossfire 1 point. Crossfire was beat by Eclipse 0 points, tied Dallas 1 point and tied PDA 1 point. Eclipse had 6 points. That nite, Dallas's DOC told Eclipse he was sorry for the parent that over reacted. Even if Eclipse would of tied PDA, PDA still would of went due to goals scored/allowed. Bottom line, and I would say the same for the current U13 game, teams need to take care of business during bracket play, If either MN team would of won during play, no one would be having the conversation right now.
For the first thing the 13 coach could have NOT stratagized with the 12 coach over the past year about this very situation. Don't try to turn this into a poor us everyones bashing MTA session. Your club directors colluded to fix the game if it went to PK's. Read the blog written by MA himself, he admits it.
BTW 11:02 do you really think MA has "zero control over the other teams players" ? Maybe not directly but certainly indirectly through their coach.
this was my point from earlier!!!???! I mean seriously, should AK have told HIS girls to stop this injustice by missing themselves also??? We could have had 400 rounds of passes right to the GK. 11:08 is right on, this incident has been what the anti-MTA people have been praying for every day, they finally have a cause to rally their jihad against MTA and anyone else who lures kids away from community clubs.
Just to throw this out there, I am not saying I feel this way but I am curious what others feel, what about the referee??? I mean, once he saw this, could he have carded the kids for "unsporting conduct?" I have no idea, I'm not a ref and I am certainly not blaming the guy in charge in this case, but what if he had threatened to card kids for unsporting, could that have "forced" them to disobey their coach??? I don't know. This is fascinating either way, but one thing is for sure, MANY of you are vindictive jerks who want to punish kids and hide behind "we're teaching them a valuable lesson."
MA is not Hitler. These kids weren't in the waffen SS. THEY ARE 12 YEARS OLD.
11:34 - please provide the blog comments where the directors colluded to fix the game if it went to PK's? You seem quite sure of yourself so this should not be a difficult task.
MYSA better be awfully careful with this. They unilaterally disqualify the U13s and there WILL be hell to pay with the USSF/USYSA. The U.S. Amateur Athletic Act is pretty clear about organizations denying competitive opportunities, especially to kids.
The only real option for MYSA on this is:
a) sanction MA only
b) sanction 12s (they had complicity, 12 years old or not)
c) sanction MA and AK, but NOT the u13 team as a whole - and this is only if there is definitive proof AK was involved. No matter how many times you put the world "directors" in quotes you still aren't PROVING a thing
d) the only sane thing to do in my mind (which means MYSA won't do it of course) - either order a replay of the match, or disqualify the 12s and have the 13s play Prior Lake in the semifinal.
** incidentally option D is still the only one that decides this on the field, which is what you all claim to want anyway
As mentioned a while ago they are already under some scrutiny over their little feud with the National Sports Center and their refusal to sanction some tournaments because they conflict with their little district schedule.
11:32 Thanks for your detailed account of nationals, however, my point is, that the coaches stopped playing the game and fixed the result. If you look at the rules that people keep throwing up on this blog the two similar in that the spirit of the rules were broken.
I agree with you 100% that you need to get it done in group play. That is what is wrong with the national finals, it allows for PDA/Eclipse games to happen. But that is for another day.
I don't know, I can't see punishing a bunch of 11 & 12 year olds for following their coaches directions. Especially if it didn't physically hurt someone.
When are all of you going to realize MTA is all about the club. Your kids are on the bottom of the list of priorities.If the above doesn't enlighten you nothing will.There are other coaches on the MTA staff that are just as screwed up as MA. Acouple of guys that come to mind are AK and DS.If you think these egomaniacs really care about your kids you've got another thing coming.Time for MTA to clean house.
11:34,
NOBODY...not one single soul... has been able to say what they would have done if they were the U13 coach and saw the first PK intentionally knocked right to his keeper.
What WOULD you have done at that time and how COULD you have controlled the other team's players and their coach?
11:34...you seem to have the answers...what would YOU have done? What could YOU have done?
Don't give us more rhetoric...give us your answer.
Here are the rules (as posted earlier) This will explain the argument that Both teams need to be disciplined.
Page 28 of Championship Rules. Maybe MTA/MA should have checked into it:
"...If the Minnesota State Cup Director and Administrative Committee determines
that a particular action by a team or any of its players, coaches, team officials or spectators is deemed
unacceptable for any reason, the team may be disqualified, sanctioned, requested to play another
qualifying game against the next highest ranking team that would otherwise be eligible to advance, and/or
face forfeiture of one or more games. Examples of such action include, but are not limited to: suspected
forfeiture or otherwise determining the outcome of a game with the design or purpose of controlling the
advancement of any team from its own group or any other group, intentionally losing a game, or
unnecessarily running a score up for no purpose other than to humiliate opponents...."
The part in there about the team,players,coaches or TEAM OFFICIALS...is unacceptable FOR ANY REASON. The team may be disqualified etc...
AK is a "team official" he is the club director of the East academy. MA is also a team official as he is the clubs technical director (whatever that means) . The problem here is that one team from the same club was picked over the other. Both coaches are "team officials" which puts blame on both, because they were both/together involved in the tactical planning of how to respond to this type of an event.(see MA's blog)
"I remember talking to Andy (the U12 coach) after that game, saying that I wish I would have been with him (and not engrossed in my own game) as I would have likely encouraged him to have his players pass the ball to the GK for their PKs and send the true U13s to Regionals"
This plan was not a spur of the moment decision by one person, it was a long term tactic that would be deployed if the situation ever arose,, Which it just did.
Hi, I'm a local minnesota soccer club. Here is my solution to this problem:
1) MTA should be immediately disbanded, and all players ordered at gun point to return to their community clubs
2) All MTA apparel and uniforms need to be burned in a giant bond fire while we sing and dance around it like wild indians
3)the MTA directors, coaches, and anyone who knows them by association should be tarred and feathered publicly
4) The kids involved should all attend a seminar on the dangers of match mixing and gambling, keynote speaker Pete Rose
If those four conditions are not met, and I mean immediately, then I shall have no other recourse than to.... post anonymously on an internet blog site.
DON'T make me do it... I will
If your the coach you should know the rules. None of these coaches are new there veterans and it clearly states if you throw the game you are violating the rules. They have a copy of the rules both coaches did. We as parents can find them and the coaches should know. These are paid coachs not parents. These coaches knew the rules and should have abided by them
1150 - Option 2 - sanction the girls? The 12 year old girls? For following the instructions of their coach? Come on. I was at the game, saw the entire thing, and don't have a daughter on either team. I would give my perspective but know that I would only get hateful responses. The girls on both teams worked their butts off, and the 12s that took the shots demonstrated maturity beyond their years. Too bad we can't say that about people who post on this site.
1) What is a bond fire?
2) The 13s probably shouldn't be punished.
3) What would I do if I was in AKs position-I wouldn't be in his position as I wouldn't be part of such an operation.
4) While my daughter is a team player I can't see her ever doing this regardless of what the coach would say. (this isn't judging the girls-they are drinking the aide also)
1) lets correct every misspelled word and typ-o on this blog, please, lets do that
2) wow, I bet they are relieved you feel that way
3) you probably wouldn't be, that's only because you lack the credentials, experience, and general knowledge of the game required to be a part of such an operation
4) B.S.... but you keep telling yourself that
anon 12:53,
Nice dodge. The question was what WOULD you do if you were coaching a team and the opponent just knocked the PK right at your keeper?
What COULD you do?
Still nobody with an answer is there?
Many of you want to punish a bunch of girls for something they or their coach could not control.
You're all so very transparent.
Grow up.
The following have received disciplinary sanctions by MYSA:
Danny Bakri Arsenal FC Use of Illegal Players and Providing False Information October 19, 2008 through
October 19, 2011
This happened just last year. This person provided false information and had illegal players to win games. Did they disband the club? Did they make all teams in the club go down to C3? Where was the out rage here? Why are so many incited to hang MTA? We have a coach telling a bunch of U12 players to throw a game against a bunch of U13 players. It has made the Mpls paper as well as national blogs. I think we have pretty much ruin his reputation. Yet it sounds like some (who have no horse in the race, nor a DD in the age group) want him and the club he is associated with burned at the stake. Does anyone else find this a bit hypocritical?
12:53
Lets see - every one of the kids on the U12 team went along with this fiasco but your daughter (put in this same exact situation) would not!?
I do not believe you. I think your hate of this club colors your judgment. Yes the director messed up do not blame the 12 & 13 year olds. Do you hate the little kids also? Some of you adults should act like adults.
Here's what I would do in that situation... I would watch my team make their pks, be thankful the other coach was a moron, and then go have a nice steak dinner.
anyone on here who claims they would have halted the process in the name of pure competition is a liar.
period.
1) It wasn't a typo.
2) Why would they be relieved?
3) Actually, I do.
4) You don't know my child or how she was raised.
So the 13 coach couldn't have said to the official " this is wrong, please register my voicing that" He couldn't have found an mysa person and said "please halt this until we sort it out" The thical thing for the mta board to do is withdraw their team, discipline one or both coaches if they deem both have responsibility. End of story.
11:37
This is what I have heard: the Ep coach was mentored by WH last year.
He has brothers that coach.
As I have heard, the change in the game, was because the girls made suggestion to get forward and push players up, the coaches suggestion was to add another defense mid and play back.
Whatever happened, they united as a team and played very well, and put this one away
What was the penalty for WH when he threatened that his players would not make the HS team if they tried out for for soccer clubs other than the one in the high school's community?
1:04 First I agree some are over the top in the punishment they are requesting. I believe the rules need to be enforced which I interpret too mean both teams are disqualified. Again, NOT for what the kids did but rather for the actions their coaches took. (post 12:35) This is a tough lesson for the kids, but what do they learn if nothing is done? Actions by a few can have consequenses to many, unfortunately I see that this is the case here.
The mjor differences I see in the Arsenal case vs this one are:
1. Arsenal was not playing another Arsenal team trying to advance the more experienced group.
2. It wasn't in a State Cup Semi-Final game with regional implications.
3. The Arsenal case didn't have Blog data suggesting the actions were a premeditated tactic the club directors planned to use if the situation arose.
4. The Arsenal team isn't the youth Arm of our states only Professional team. Which creates a much higher profile for the MTA group.
I would not have halted the process once it began. However, I most definitely would have told my good friend and mentor who was coaching the other team NOT to do this in the first place.
From reading the r2r site, I think it is clear that Andy and Mark had discussed this scenerio beforehand. I have not once heard that Andy voiced any objection whatsoever. In his public handwringing, Mark would have told us of AK's objections if he had any.
I also think that Mark has enough respect for Andy that if he had voiced a previous objection, Mark would have listened and this whole mess would not have occurred.
By the way, soccer is a team sport. This means that the whole team is effected, for good or ill, by the actions of any individual on the team. This is the reason why the whole team must play shorthanded if one individual earns a red card. It is also the reason why the players, unfortunately, often suffer some reprecussions for a coaches behavior. It is not fair, but it is just.
1) the post said typo or MISSPELLED word
2) sarcasm chief, its this new and amazing thing
3) yeah I bet you do, and its not hard to say things that aren't true on internet blogs anonymously either right? (alert - this is that sarcasm thing)
4)yes I do (see, I can post things that are totally untrue just like you can - see #3)
lets keep making lists, this is fun. Is the view nice from up there on your pedestal? Does your back ever start to hurt after you ride your high horse around all day? What IS it like to have s*** that doesn't stink? These are the questions that keep me up at night.
Man, LOTS of defensive U13 parents here...or is it just the one guy who keeps saying the same thing?
There is no way to be certain the U13 coach knew this would happen. Once it became obvious there was no way to stop it.
To penalize someone on pure speculation is a very risky proposition.
It would open up the very strong possibility of legal action from the innocent team if they were sanctioned for actions over which they had no control.
Very shaky ground with no definitive way to prove collusion.
My guess is that it would be a very expensive lawsuit.
Does anyone think 1:44 is a 13 parent worried about not playing at regions?
1:07-I don't hate any individual or club. Just because I see what MTA is doesn't mean I hate the club. I would never have anything to do with them.
Ya Think. Hes worried that his child isnt going to play. As far as law suits go. Those two directors could have all of MTA thrown out of the tournament not just the 13 and 12's
I wonder what the owners of the Thunder think about this? How would this go over if it had happened in a club in Europe?
1:53,
What color is the sky in your world?
You're totally delusional.
It's really funny watching the same 8-10 folks who have bashed Abboud and the Thunder/Bangu the last several years posting the same thing over and over and over...it's as if they think saying it again and again will make it happen.
Poor deluded souls.
From R2R:
"I apologized to them about the day yesterday, told them I made a mistake, mentioned that there would likely be repercussions and that I was fully at peace to deal with them, at peace because I took responsibility for a decision that I thought was made in the best interest of the club AND OF THE STATE at the time it was made." (emphasis mine).
People, he did it for US!
1) It wasn't a misspelled word either, it isn't a word at all.
You challenged my list. Yes, I could be a liar but... I'm not.
I'm not on a high horse of any kind. I'm just as entitled to state how I handle things as anyone on this blog. You can disagree of course.
The haters are named anonymous? What a coincidence. How did you divine they are all the same people?
I've never seen this blog so active as the past few days.
The haters are absolutely orgasmic and drooling all over their keyboards.
Too funny watching them get all lathered up and posting their fantasies.
Wait...
Coaches of a youth soccer club perform an unethical act.
People are properly outraged.
They call said individuals/club on the unethical act.
They are then labelled "haters"?
Oh yes, this makes sense.
Anon 1:29
Some of your points I agree with some I do not.
1. No but they were trying to advance to a different level in their leagues. So he was still cheating and he was cheating over a period of games not just one game. You are also assuming that the U13 coach knew what was happening before the first shot. I not sure, if I think he did. I also think it is expecting a lot of a coach, to think that during a shoot out he should realize what is going on with the first shooter, and then figure out what he should do about it. Maybe I am slower than most on this blog, but I do not know if I would have figured it out after the first shot, maybe after the second shot yes. Now, I have three more shooters to figure out what I am going to do. Go to the ref. Say something to MA. Shake my head in confusion and take the win.
2. ABSOLUTELY, and this is the real problem for MYSA & MTA.
3. MA completely confuses me in regards to his blog. Insight into his thought process is interesting, but his inability not to bring attention to himself goes beyond anything I have ever seen.
4. The Arsenal Club I believe started last year, and was promoting itself as a Premier Club. From their web site, “Arsenal FC (Football Club) is the newest premier youth soccer club in Minnesota” It was also a boy’s team and not a girl’s team. In my experience, parents in girls’ soccer get a whole lot more worked up then the boys parents do.
Here is what I think should happen. MTA board should suspend MA and hire or provide a new coach for the team immediately. The MTA board should bring the incident to MYSA w/the-following recommendations:
MA serves a 2 years suspension from coaching/training any teams affiliated w/MYSA or Club Soccer. (The Club Soccer part will be hard to do)
MA is banned from coaching at any State Cup Event for life.
What was the penalty for WH when he threatened that his players would not make the HS team if they tried out for for soccer clubs other than the one in the high school's community?
I think he had to pay a fine to MHSL. The rule he broke was there not MYSA's.
man, clearly the guy was trying to type "bonfire." Don't be such a d-bag, it discredits your entire post.
it astounds me how some people on here can be such jack holes and then try to sound pragmatic all in the same post.
What would I do?
This is the time for the Thunder ownership to clean house. Poll all MTA parents and get their input. Then fire all the coaches identified that do not meet Thunder Code Of Conduct. The Thunder would be better off without these individuals and would increase their respect in Minnesota Youth Soccer.
Westsider
I just looked there were out of 198 posts only 3 brave souls using there name. So the ones that claim that were all hiding hes right we are. Both for MTA and against. I think because its easier to remain that way and speak freely then to come out and say to our neighbors and friends hey this guy screwed up I can only speculate whats going to happen so im going rant about it anonymously so at least my voice is heard. I doubt MYSA or MT are looking at this board. But if they were they are seeing every end of the spectrum. Does anyone know do AK and MA have a copy of the rules that say gee if you throw the game it might come back to bite you in the A$$
2:51
please either capitialize at the start of your sentences, or be consitent with no caps throughout your post. The fact that you were not consistent in your post is causing real mentle and emotional strane.
And don't use all caps as that is shouting.
Yes I do know how to spell but I thought I would get under some people's skin with poor spelling, punctuation and lack of attention to dtail in my post.
Folks, the idea that AK didn't know it was going to happen is ludicrous. It's a very small circle of people that coach in MN, we all know each other, and we've been talking about this situation hypothetically within our own subgroups all winter. In my club, the director and 4-5 of the coaches have had this exact discussion about 'what do you think about their plan . . . ', 'what would you do . . .', 'Do you think his (MA's) reasoning is correct . . .' It was well known to have been discussed by both MA & AK. I don't know who posted it earlier, but I also don't think it should have gotten to that point. AK should have disagreed vehemently with MA and done so to the MTA board back when it was first discussed. He'd then have plausible deniability. As for the comment that AK wouldn't stop any action that pads his coaching w/l record, or something to that effect, you obviously don't know AK. I think he's young and agreed to something he probably shouldn't have, but it wasn't for selfish reasons. I find him to be extremely self-effacing and modest. I like the earlier solution of forfeit for the U12s, replay the game with the second place team from their bracket v. the 13s. Sanction MA and AK for whatever penalty is appropriate (there has to be USYSA precedent for this). Then move on.
3:03 that makes the most sense, the 12's should forefeit, and the 13's play the next in line after the 12's there is still time this weekend to make that happen. I do think both teams need new leadership. That both coaches for the season need to take it off. Both are great coaches but they both need to realize there actions were wrong. Its not fair to the 13's not to be given the chance to advance but they need to do it fairly. Leave it to them to make the choice either forfeit to next in line or replay to the next in line.
Bottom line folks...even if AK knew this was possible he couldn't prevent MA from carrying it out.
Your eagerness to penalize a group of innocent girls speaks volumes of your interests on this issue.
3:03 - could you provide the details of "It was well known to have been discussed by both MA & AK". What did the discussion detail? What did they decide? Did they fill you in on this or is your information second or even third hand? You seem to be "in the know". Either that or just more speculation from unsubstantiated sources.
wow.....300+ blog entries in only a few days. and all from maybe 20-25 different people.....
They need rules to tell them it's wrong to throw a game? Seriously? Gosh that's disgusting!
any decent championships on the girls side?
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