Interesting tidbit from reading the state cup rules, at U17 boys if VLY and SCV advance from group A, which seems likely at this point but not for sure, the winner of that group will play the winner from group C and the wildcard will play winner of group B, so that two teams both from group A do not play in the semi- finals
so most likely the matchups look like this for the semis:
I am amazed at the comments about the U18 match between SSM and MTA. I think it must be a bitter pill to realize with all the advantages present that SSM is not clearly 1 to 2 goals better than everyone. (If I trained as often and as hard I would expect to be.) MTA may simply have more talent because the training while great is not close to what SSM offers.
Just a side note, how much sense does it make to have SSM U17 team playing Classic 1 this summer. Their first 2 matches total goals 16-0. I am sure the impact of community clubs will be postive, everybody should be able to learn life lessons by getting pounded.
Yeah, I read that too. I think he was at a different game. Batting the ball past the goalie with your arm is a questionable call, LOL. I thought it was Adler not Robson who make the save. But hey I can see how someone could confuse Robson and Adler one over six foot with short dark curly hair the other about 5'9" with long straight blond hair. Kind of puts the whole post in prospective.
As a U18 C1 player, I see a life lesson in getting pounded by SSM U17...We aren't THAT good and we should work harder and we should have worked harder and there is always someone out there that is better and working harder.
I don't care where the SSM players are coming from. They're just teenagers from the same universe as me. They've put in the time and effort throughout their lives to deserve to pound me and my team that hasn't put in equal time and effort. I know it's making me better by playing against them.
My family has money. I have a round soccer ball. I have access to grassy fields. It was my choice to play multiple sports and not work as hard at soccer as the SSM players.
So when my team gets to the high school season and we're pounding a small Class A team and we think we're really good with our All-State recognition, I will remember this life lesson...stay humble, we're not THAT good and there is somebody else out there working harder.
I agree that false information makes that SSM parent look stupid and make his/her claim even more ridiculous, but one must understand the overall point.
I saw the game as my daughter plays for NSSA U15 and the fields were right next to each other. There's no doubt that throughout the 2nd half and both overtimes Shattuck was definitely pressing hard against MTA, and MTA got pretty lucky with some good saves.
MTA should be applauded for their efforts and for beating a full time residential program. This shows that Minnesota soccer is definitely progressing!!!
MTA 18's in 07 won the state cup in a shoot out. In 08 won the state cup in a shoot out. They are no strangers to shoot outs.
It doesn't seem like a year of State Cup goes by without someone complaining that the better team lost in a shoot out. I look at shoot out like this '. . . . MTA had the ball sitting still on the six yard line and put in on target 5 out of 5 times. They put the ball past the GK 4 out of 5 times. SSM with the ball sitting still on the six yard line put the ball on target 4 out of 5 times. SSM with the ball sitting still on the 6 yard line put the ball past the goalie 3 out of 5 times. In the end to be the better team a players have to perform the simple task of putting the ball on target and past the goalie. It is a system that that works in the shooters favor. SSM 5 best players wasn't able to do that.
By the nature of statistics, larger sample sizes eliminate the element of chance. Smaller sample sizes increase chance, i.e. luck.
If each team took 100 PKs, two quality teams like SSM and MTA would probably tie. With 5 PKs, there is an increased chance that a goalie guesses correctly, or a consistent shooter hits the pipe, etc. Shootouts don't determine the better team. Shootouts end the game.
On that day, MTA got luckier than SSM and won. Perhaps next time SSM will get luckier. Regardless, MTA is deserving of the victory this time. They won, fair and square.
RE: 12/5/09 6:22 PM I can't believe no one commented. Assuming this was a player... That's one of the more thoughtful posts on this blog. If he / she were my kid... I'd say they were learning the kind of lesson we parents all say we want our kids to learn through sports. A little humility, that's nice...
if it had been written by a U18 player you would have seen a lot of text shorthand like "u", "b4", "y", "2"......obviously written by someone not thrilled about SSM.
I'm a doctor at Fairview. We lose a lot of patients that choose Mayo due to their reputation. In a sense, we get pounded by Mayo and their internationally recruited staff of doctors. However, the greatness and contributions of Mayo improves the quality of Fairview. Mayo's success is motivation to Fairview to do our very best work. We might not be #1, but we improve through learning from our experiences with Mayo. We're fortunate to have Mayo in MN.
Just to clarify, why did not MYSA just put SSM in with the Premier Level at the appropriate age? They would have been better off and their opponents would have enjoyed the competition. Playing U18 Cl is just an odd place to place them. All due respect to everyone but not alot is gained from 10-0 soccer matches.
5:47, They did the same thing to a Bangu girls team a few years ago. It ruined the league for all the other teams. You need to be on the DOC or something to have your kids team placed properly.
Mama mia that was not SSM and MTA first time playing each other. they tied the first time they met. and yes it does show who is the better team. it shows whos players can stand up to the task after 120 min of playing and putting a ball in the back of the net under pressure and MTA did that better than SSM.
here's what I happens when we all get fooled. I wrote that and was looking for reaction from MYSA. too bad no takers MYSA got it wright since no scores are kept
MYSA also put the SSM U16 girls into C3. So far, they have outscored opponents 26-0 and that is after only two games (with one being ended 20 minutes early).
The wisdom of MYSA is amazing. No one is getting anything out of these games, but they DID prove that rules should be applied without any consideration for what is actually the right thing to do. They should be overhauled.
The wisdom of "MYSA" is really the wisdom of the leaders of community clubs that propose and vote and pass these silly rule changes. You should visit the publication of MYSA Bylaws found here http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/publications/bylaws.cfm Pay special attention to Article 5 and 9. The rule that the MYSA competitive committee must follow that places these new teams at C3 is the same one that gives premier team's status to the club instead of the previous rule that said a team was comprised of 50% plus 1 of the previous year's roster (club jumping) Now those teams can ZERO players from the previous year. So while we persecute MYSA, lets clarify exactly who that is.
But isn't it interesting that the SCV Boys current U17 team was allowed to play in the C1 league as a new team yet a dominant group like current SSM girls must play at C3? Different rules for different fools?
U15 MTA looks great, from a technical perspective. Sportsmanship wise, lot to be desired. AB needs to dust off his monologues about character, fair play, etc. Apparently good technical ability trumps good character at MTA. Sad that youth sports can't be different from professional sports.
any predictions on the u14 boys front? I hear psa has a couple of players who are dishonest and brutal. One shouldve been red carded two games back and the same player broke a bhk player's nose last game. A couple of psa boys (86 in particular) should not be allowed to play soccer. I hope the refs start to call them on their extended arms, thrown elbows, back pushing, jersey tugging, body hugging, and late tripping.
Nobody will touch MTA Blue at U14B. Prob their only slightly tougher game will come against SCV in the last group game and likely repeated in the final.
I saw the PSA/BHK game and it was a pretty rough challenge and he prob should have been red carded (kid on the game next to it was for far less). Rest of your comments are a bit harsh, and it is up to the ref to call foul play and enforce discipline, thats what hes there for.
2:06 - agreed. I've seen them play, and if by having character/sportsmanship flaws you mean they aren't swearing on the field, don't talk back to refs, don't throw hissy fits on the field, and just PLAY THE GAME, then I guess I would have to agree. They are one of the few teams I've watched in a long time that just comes to the field to play the game. Not the dirty crap, just p-l-a-y.... must be a new concept for some.
Yep...just as I figured....an Edina parent..and if true colors you mean they shook off the dust, then whatever.... which one of the perpetually 2 bitter dads are you? Some day you will find peace and beauty in the game, but until then there will always be someone else to blame I'm sure.
Re: 17B, several people post that SCV will be the wildcard. I don't see it.
Assume VLY, BHK and AFC win the brackets. SCV is 1-1-0 with a +2. At best, they could end up 2-1-0 and +5 with a 3-0 win over WDB, which is very possible. But...
A. Lakeville is also 1-1-0, but with a +4. If Lakeville beats WSD and gives up one goal or less, they will advance as the wildcard.
B. If BHK beats MTA in Group B, BHK wins the bracket and MTA would be the wildcard if they give up less than 2.
Amazing that a team that didn't get a win in MRL, will probably go 0 for 3 in State Cup pool play, and has not earned premier yet would try to find excuses why they can't win. Oh I guess that isn't unheard of, but it might be why they will continue to be a C1 team.
Shirt pulling caused 5 goals against? I saw that game. Edina keeper made some terrific saves, and MTA missed several decent opportunities.
AB did show his class by playing their second keeper and subbing out his starters beginning as early as the 11th minute. MTA players appeared to believe 1/2 effort would be enough to win until half time, then put it back into 3/4 gear and dominated a team that was not prepared to play with the states best. Again, subs were made very early after the game was out of reach (2-0).
Ref even appeared to be calling the game like a David and Goliath match, in which he didn't want the score to be embarrassing (I am a referee and do not agree with this type of interference, a foul is a foul no matter who the kid plays for or when it occurs-1st or last minute). Wonder if he has an issue with the big bad MTA vs a CC, sure looked like it.
LET THE BOYS PLAY- STATE CUP IS A COMPETITION TO FIND THE BEST TEAM AT EACH AGE. NOT EVERYONE IS A WINNER, AND IF THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR GO BACK TO U9'S OR REC LEAGUE AND FORGET ABOUT REALITY.
I also agree with the post regarding PSA being a rough club, and that is from first hand experience refereeing multiple age groups.
3:46- The Lakeville GD is wrong on the MYSA site. It is impossible to be +4 when 1-1 because of the 3 goal max. They are actually a -2 currently. They counted the 3 goals against them vs. Arsenal for them by mistake.
If BHK wins at 12 on Saturday all SCV has to do is win by any score against WDB to advance as WC.
If BHK ties with MTA the same would hold true for SCV.
There are a few different things that could happen depending on the score if BHK losses to MTA.
SSM only has a chance if both MTA and SCV lose because of GD.
This is all with the assumption AFC and VLY take care of things on their end. I believe AFC already has won the group though with the head to head over LKV the only team that can catch them.
If MTA beats BHK 3-0, SCV can't catch them. However, that would put BHK on 6 pts with +3 goal differential. So SCV, could still pass BHK with a 3 goal win, regardless of goals against. If SCV win by 3 goals, there is no scenario to stop them from advancing. If they win by 2 goals or fewer and give up goals, they could be in trouble. Obviously, a tie or loss and SCV are done. Even though I'm not a SCV-club fan, I can't see WDB beating them.
I agree with the earlier post about Edina and “the dad’s” there are two or three of them that are a hoot. Years of watching them try to compete with my son’s team and there endless reasons for why things just never seem to work out. I see their best player is now over at MU and finally playing with some talent, coaching and decent training. Maybe after all these years it is time to accept the fact that you are C1 talent and there is nothing wrong with that. Let your kids compete, have fun and grow. Daddy’s money cannot buy talent, but it has ruined a lot of father son relationships
boys predictions U13 - MT? over MT? in the final U14 - MTA Blue over SCV U15 - MTA Blue over PSA (closer than most will think) U16 - SSM over EDP U17 - up for grabs! VLY over ??? U18 - MTA over EDP U19 - VLY over WBL
We're nearly there, people, so let's all offer thoughts, similar to 9:39. One rule: No name-calling!
U13: MTA will beat MTA. However, none of the parents will remember which team their son is on, so there will be 30 minutes of confusion after the game as MYSA representatives sort things out.
U14: MTA will beat NSSA. SCV U14s have a history of struggling when it matters. They will not win their semi. NSSA has been very impressive, but MTA is the only team in the bunch with strong defending.
U15: MTA Blue will beat PSA. I agree it will be close, but while PSA is quick and drrrty, MTA is smarter and more skilled. If MTA can keep their composure, they will find a way to slow down PSA's strikers. MTA has a strong keeper too.
U16: MTA Blue will beat SCV. Many think MTA is down with injuries, but they've had the best players in the state since U13. They have depth, and will pull it together to beat SSM in the semi. Strong defending SCV will beat EDP in the other semi.
U17: VLY will beat AFC. Not sure if they will ultimately meet in a final, but they were the two most talented teams I watched last weekend.
U18: MTA will ride their victory over SSM and beat EDP. That said, what was up with the MTA keeper? He was fabulous in the shootout, but then left in an ambulance. All bets are off if he doesn't play.
American Idiot...if VLY and AFC were the most talented teams you watched in Isanti at U17 it's my guess you showed up for the 2PM games and skipped the noon ones.
American Idiot, I agree with 3:32. I think the 3 best U17 teams might be in Group B, with VLY being the 4th best team. AFC will lose in the semifinals after coming out of the weakest group. BHK has been the most impressive so far after destroying both SSM and a weak SCVC1 team. The big game is BHK-MTA on Saturday.
The semifinals will probably be VLY-SCV-BHK-AFC. The 4 best teams are probably BHK-SSM-MTA-VLY.
It's safe to say it's a crapshoot at the top between BHK-SSM-MTA-VLY-SCV-AFC. Then I would say it's a crapshoot between the other 6 teams with WSD being the top team.
So, if that keeps on Group A Winner VLY Group B Winner BHK Group C Winner AFC Wildcard - SCV +3 goals against 3 beating SSM for the wildcard slot, SSM +1 goals against 5.
4:09 your incorrect. only 3 goals count toward differential. SCV must win by 2 to get the wildcard. Otherwise its SSM. Don't know if 4:17 is guessing or telling?
Wow who would have thought before the draw that SSM and MTA would not make the semis at 17 boys?
Congrats to AFC, BHK, SCV and VLY. Glad to see that BHK and VLY did not get each other in the semi-final. I think BHK and VLY are the 2 best teams right now.
Sierra Leone much better players than Somalia or maybe it stands for Sweden. Either way what does it matter. That is a racial remark and does not belong anywhere. Humans are humans and soccer players are soccer players.
Will Inside mn soccer be doing an article on how mta and ssm failed to make the semis at state cup for 17s,looking forward to reading about that one. Congrats to Blackhawks,you did Mn proud!
Isn't U17 the age group where there is a ton of talent but it's spread across 5 or 6 teams? If that's still the case then whoever wins this age group will struggle to win even 1 game at Region 2 Championships. We saw that with this age group last year at U16 Championships in Rockford even with a favorable draw.
I think ssm raised the level of 17s this spring.Everyone got their butts kicked by them this winter and knew they had to improve. This age group is the real deal,the top c1 sides would be premier in other age groups.
Oh come on everyone. you guys really think that MN soccer is better at this age group because svc, afc, mta play well at mrl? the reality is that mn soccer still can not compete regionally when it comes to the boys side. svc, afc and mta are not playing against the top teams in this region in mrl or regionals and they are actually playing the second best teams. Fc milwaukee, St. louis scott gallagher, chicago magic, kc wizard, vardar, ohio internationals ussually dominates the region but their top teams are in the US academy system and are not competing in mrl or regionals.
your sons are actually competing against the second level teams. Thus, for mn soccer to be able to compete nationally, the top players must play together instead of spreading out to multiple teams. mn does not have the depth like other states and i don't see that other states have them either as to the fact mn teams are winning against their second level teams.
9:51 - IMO, the biggest difference between these teams over the winter and now is the playing together and jelling as teams. SSM has a huge leg up early in the year as they have been training together for months while the MN boys are just coming off high school seasons in late October. At U17 technical skills don't improve dramatically, but teamwork and tactical skill do.
Others have already posted about the demise of MRL. But come one, no academy teams play in MRL any more. That is at least the top 10-12 Region 2 teams at 16, 17 and 18. The 17 group is deep, but the number of quality players in the age group is similar to others. They are all spread out on different teams. Last years SCV 16 boys showed how they stack up regionally, winning 0 games in one of the softest draws anyone could hope for at Regionals. I would expect a similar result for this years MN 17 boys team at regionals.
I didn’t know Edina was 10 miles from the Lift Bridge. SCV is not a community club and the players are not from a small area as you have described. You draw from all of the East Metro and even further. Your need to show that your club is #1 is silly. Your % comparison is almost laughable. MTA entered far more teams. Most MTA teams play state cup as a measuring stick. Overall club strength should be measured more by semi finalist and club quality by finalists and championships.
Ok, but putting my personal distain from about a ½ dozen SCV coaches/admins aside. Semi teams not counting U19s because there was no competition to get to the semis and finals:
16 MTA (last year 17) 7 SCV (last year 4) 4 EDP, PSA, SSM 3 WDB 2 NSS 1 AFC, BHK, BVL, CDA, KLX, MUS, TNK, VLY & WYZ
I will say that 7 semi finalist for SCV is impressive. NSS with 2 is also an accomplishment for a club that hasn’t had a semi finalist for a long time (as far back as I can remember.) On the disappointment side, BHK and WYZ really stand out. How can clubs with their history fall so far?
SCV’s increase from 4 semi finalist last year to 7 this year is also impressive. MTA has one less than BNG and WNG combined last year. Hmmm, is the Thunder management going to put their ‘magic touch’ on the youth program as well? I would have expected a few more semi finalists this year. We’ll see if MTA can at least match the number of championships as last 2 year (8 each year.)
I still believe that SCV, WDB, VLY and BHK should merge their top talent in the East, and EDP, PSA, WYZ and TNK in the West to make more teams competitive with MTA.
The thing that is interesting is when you look at the U13 age groups for boys and girls. Thunder teams have 3 of the 4 semi-finalists in both boys and girls brackets. Their academy approach at younger ages is yielding results.
a little surprising how easy the semis appear to of been.Blackhawks knock off SSM and MTA but get spanked by St Croix 3 0,it truly shows how deep the age group is.SSM cant get in semis and their group winner loses by 3. Final is between two very consistent teams,2 1 St Croix.
I see a lot of mta promotion on this blog.They took players from Bangu,players from Wings,AFC s center mids,Westsides #1 goalscorer and then some.They finished 3rd in the group.The group winners were too strong for them{Blackhawks}the group winners then lost 3 0 to St Croix.I think that shows that collecting players does not always work,sometimes it is about the right blend and team chemistry as well as coaching. The best coach at 17s is St Croixs,he makes no friends along the way but wins.
The U17 age group isn't deeper than any other age. And unfortunately for the state the talent is spread across several teams. As someone noted earlier last year's U16 winner lucked out and received a sweetheart draw and still didn't win a game at Regions. My hunch is whoever wins U17 will struggle to win a game again this year.
What about the previous years before last? I believe the age group sent a team to the semi's of regions each year, correct me if I'm wrong. It is a deep age group accept it.
yeah right,they'll struggle to win a game! Valley won the first division at ease,St Croix may win the premier division they are top right now. The 17 group is deeper than any other group,fact supports that. The team that received the "sweetheart draw" last year is a great team,beat blackhawks 3 0. I know you wish mta could draw in all the top players at 17 to be 18 but face it,your nothing at this age,Valley and St Croix proved that,Blackhawks did the dirty work by beating the average mta and ssm teams despite all the recruiting. Man did that Blackhawks coach ever out coach the the group but then he ran in to St Croix,3 0,not exactly debatable.
at 13s a finalist,at 14 and 15 a semi finalist and at 16 a team that was a goal away from semis.I am not so sure that that is under acheiving., mta will always try to maintain that the talent is spread too thin,they hope to get the best players,win and then brag.So much for development!MTA hasnt really got close{inc old Bangu} since u13 and is frustrated that other cc clubs continue to excel. Why on earth would you not bring all the best players to zahl and the current coach of mta at 17s,how dare we not leave St Croix and Valley!
MTA will end up winning as many or more State Cup championships as they did last year. Nobody is ever going to win them all as this never happens in any state. It's good that other clubs have accelerated their training and programs in efforts to "keep up with the Joneses" as the overall level of soccer will continue to improve in this state.
One more time..... U13 Championship - PSA v MTW U14 Championship - MTA v SCV U15 Championship - MTA v MUS U16 Championship - MTW v SSM U17 Championship - VLY v SCV U18 Champions MTA. EDP Finalist
If that information is correct it looks like MTA/MTW seems to be doing ok. In fact, I think a good argument could be made that MTW seems to be really benefiting from the new situation.
U17 - Thank God I DONT HAVE A KID IN THIS AGE GROUP. Just watching from the outside is enough to drive us all crazy. "The 17 group is deeper than any other group, fact supports that." Well you almost got it right. The 17 group is deeper than any other group with over involved parents who have and continue to manipulate situations in order for them to feel important, facts supports that. Here how I see it. I no longer believe the hype from these parents, I think there are 16 talented players in this age group. Then there are bunches of pretty good players with parents who know in order for their child to look good and achieve the kind of success that makes them feel good about themselves they need to keep the divisions deep and the talent spread. For example, Anon 9:08 comments trashing coaches, what was the purpose of your comments?
10:49 -- For U13, MTE (MTA Blue) is matched up against MTA 1 (MTA White). Although no one really cares about the U13 age group, they perhaps should. The level of play in that age group, especially the MTA Blue team, is exceptional. It is a sign of great things to come.
10:49, i think it is even more funny how many people try to disprove how talented that age group is, both sides of the situation are ridic, just leave it alone, we will see how talented this age group is in one, two, maybe three years when we see who plays college soccer, or maybe pro soccer we will find out at that point, until then lets just leave the whole situation alone, can we agree on that?
10:33- It is actually the Joneses, and not the Jones's. In the context, the Jones family doesn't own anything. Therefore there is no apostrophe. Thus, I am fairly certain who the learning impared individual really is. Are you an EP father with an African accent and dark skin who drives a blue Lexus? If so, I understand.
Anon 10:33, It is keeping up with the "Joneses". Who's the retard?
"Keeping up with the Joneses" is a catchphrase in many parts of the English-speaking world referring to the comparison to one's neighbour as a benchmark for social caste or the accumulation of material goods.
Thunder boys teams are finalists or champions 5 of the 6 age groups in which they entered teams. Thunder girls teams are finalists or champions in 5 of the 7 age groups.
Frankly, given the MTA mission of state domination, I'd think anything less than MTA Blue v MTA White in every age group would be considered a failure. Oh well, too bad this year, maybe with a few more marketing dollars and recruiting speeches you can gather the remaining good players.
anon 7:44, Do you think any of the finalists at State Cup got where they're at without recruiting? Open your eyes, man. Also look across the entire USA state by state. Even the top ranked clubs in the country don't win State Cup in every age group they enter. Relax and enjoy the soccer.
Yeah, 7:44. MTA merely wants to teach youth a love for the world's beautiful game. The wins and state cup championships and freaked out parents are by-products.
Take the top 1-3 Minnesota players from the top 10 teams at U17 and put them all on MTA or Blackhawks. That team would win nationals even with an MTA coach.
The roster would be the top 3 from VLY, 3 from SCV, 3 from BHK, 2 from ARS, 3 from MTA, 1 from SSM, 1 from LKV, 1 from WSD, 1 from EAG, 1 from EDP.
"Take the top 1-3 Minnesota players from the top 10 teams at U17 and put them all on MTA or Blackhawks. That team would win nationals even with an MTA coach."
not true... not even close to true... so far from being true its almost comical.
If you don't think it's true, I think you have an inflated opinion of the competition from Sockers, Vardar, Gallagher and Internationals.
That U17 collection of players would probably be the most talented collection of MN boys players since 1990. We've had some teams not too far off from winning the region, including this age group getting to the semifinals a few years ago with a PSA group that wouldn't come close to a statewide collection of players described above.
Besides, club name doesn't win championships. Look how MTA, Blackhawks and SSM did at U17 State Cup.
it would never happen as the last time I looked there is only one soccer ball allowed out on the field. this would be completely unacceptable to not only the players, but more importantly to their parents (especially a few of the dads). how can little landon stand out and shine when there are other stars just as bright around him......
its not true. You have an over inflated sense of Minnesota talents. There is a nice little piece in Inside MN Soccer pointing out the fact that in terms of participating on the boys side MN has the second highest number of boys playing soccer in Region II, yet the smallest number who move on to play NCAA Division I soccer.
As someone who has lived and coached in other parts of Region II, its incredibly ignorant to assume that if MN pooled its talent in any given age group it would "win nationals." Shoot if all of MN pooled its talent it might not even beat just Cal South alone head to head, now take every top team from every state and throw them into the mix.
That statement is clearly coming from someone who DOES NOT KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, which all things being considered it predicable coming out of a MN blog.
I'd be curious to see what DM over at AHA has to say about this. he actually WON a U17 USYSA National Championship in 2001 out of Ohio South. Of course, he's been banished to the wasteland that is known as "girls soccer" for almost a decade now so he's probably lost touch with all sense of reason and reality at this point.
I do know that he has told me that the team he won the title with was, and i quote him "not the best team in the nation and maybe not even the best team in the region" in terms of talent. i think that speaks to 12:46s point about what it takes to win a title like that.
U16 MTA losing to PSA sums up their season, disappointing, Cody Cropper leaving is one excuse, many injuries are another, but in the end they need to consider changing things, many useless players, including their keeper who has lost them multiple MRL games and would never have been played if Cropper had not departed. That team deserved a better ending with all that talent but some players ruined the year for them.
Best players dont mean best team. It's having the right mix of players to achieve a common goal for a team not their individual self. (Miracle on Ice for example) I don't think taking the top 18 players by skill would work here. With the right mix it could work but the way things are now the teams are doing fine regionally.
Look back at this age group like someone pointed out before.
U13- Bangu- won group with ND, MI, OH-N. Beat MO in Semi's lost to IL 3-1 in Region Final. U14- SuperEagles- won group with KY, SD, NE. Lost in Region Semi's 3-2. U15- SuperEagles- won group with MRL, OH-S, OH-N. Lost in Region Semi's 3-1. U16- St. Croix- tied SD, NE. Lost 2-1 to MRL team. Did not advance.
U17- St. Croix or Valley will represent, maybe even both pending MRL.
12:58 - DM won that national championship with Team Dayton SC out of Ohio South. They may not have been the "most talented" but they had plenty of it. Two examples; Mark Burch (DC United) and Chris Rolfe (Chicago Fire) were on that team I believe.
My favorite story about that team is when they were down 4-0 at regionals to Indy Inferno and won the match 5-4. That unbelievable rally set them on their path to the National Championship.
And yet, 1:09, it is safe to say that at U16, MTA has the best players. Every U16 who thinks he's great tried out for that team.
And so, you accumulate all the best players at an age group, and what happens? No MRL wins and not even advancing out of the State Cup bracket. I know, I know, losing two great players to injury and a keeper to the national team hurts, but on paper, MTA has the best 18 (not 11) players. Sometimes you need more than players (i.e., coaching, chemistry, common understanding of "team," etc.)
I think putting the top U17s on one team would be a train wreck.
Implying that a statewide MN team can't compete nationally is like saying a south-suburban MN team can't compete with a nationally recruited team.
Wait, Valley United just won 3-0 to go to the final while SSM couldn't get out of their group.
To mama mia's point, MN has come close at regions with mediocre teams. If you can win the region, you can win nationals. The midwest has won plenty of nationals.
If the Gophers had a men's team, our D1 participation would quadruple. Some of the MIAC schools would compete with, maybe not beat, some of the D1 schools in CA.
There isn't that much difference. Just like the Thunder aren't that much different than the Wizards. Or our C1 teams aren't that much different than some of our premier teams.
It takes a talented and disciplined team with a good coach and a little luck to win any championship at any level anywhere in the world.
He is that really annoying kid from Blackhawks, I always thought he was a decent keeper with a terrible attitude, never thought he was ODP or even MTA quality, I think that they need to replace him with someone who can help lead the team instead of being a team cancer. As for the rest of the team Miller is great, Cropper was great, Mohammed is good but it can be noted that he has been going downhill, #5 in back is a stud, #17 is a very very gifted player with potential from blackhawks, same with #13, but overall this team has excellent talent and i agree that some players really hurt them this year.
the problem isn't talent, its athleticism. In larger "talent pools" like Chicago, Los Angeles, etc... top clubs can identify all the most talented players, but then pick the best ATHLETES of the bunch. What you get, are better all around players. From what I've seen of MN soccer thus far its painfully nonathletic comparatively, which is one of the main reasons for the disparity in participation vs DI programs.
Even if you added DI soccer to the U for example, there would still be a huge gap.
Minnesota has plenty of horses, not that many thoroughbreds.
U16 final. Hard to believe that no local premier team is in the finals. Maybe premier status should be decided after state cup. Anyway, MTA White and SSM in the finals. MTA White has looked good so far. Play well together as a team (in contrast to MTA Blue which still has not come together). If SSM plays like they did against Bloomington it will be a sad ride home.
LOL well that is a new one. Let us see here are the orders of excuses I have seen in the past. 1) MN Soccer does not draw enough players 2) MN soccer players are not committed to training for soccer. MN is Hockey orientated. 3) Now, we do not attract the best athletes. MN players all have two left feet. I played a different sport at the National level growing up, here some of the things it takes 1)Good Athletes committed to TEAM 2)Good Athletes committed to TRAINING 3)LUCK You need good athletes not amazing athletes. In any sports unless they are will to committed to TEAM & TRAINING you would be with just the good old garden variety good athlete. Luck has just as much to do with it as anything else.
U16 MTA does not have the best players, a decent number of them play U17 soccer and always have played a year up, at least 5-6 players that would be considered in the best 18 players in that age group, 4 of them with VLY, a couple AFC and BHK
Let's assume the best players in the country can't compete with the best in the world, so let's just send a mediocre team to the World Cup. It won't be our most talented team, but they will be a good mix of experienced players like Jeff Agoos, Brian Ching, Frankie Hejduk and Claudio Reyna. They are all great TEAM players and it would be a feel-good miracle on grass if they won.
We'll leave our most talented players at home because they aren't great for TEAM and it won't be a thrilling miracle if they won. We'll leave Jozmer Altidore, Freddie Adu, Jonathan Spector, Danny Szetela and Taylor Twellman at home or on the bench.
Sounds like a great idea. Let's assume our most talented players would be unwilling to play on one team, so let's not even try.
ANON 3:02 I don't know if you missed the point or just don't want to get the point. Unless the "most talented players" want to play as a team and work hard they are no good to anyone. "We'll leave our most talented players at home because they aren't great for TEAM and it won't be a thrilling miracle if they won." and "Let's assume our most talented players would be unwilling to play on one team, so let's not even try." huh?? Maybe I wasn't clear in my post, but unless your "most talented players" are willing to be apart of a team and work hard they won't be winning much of anything. Nobody said don't try. But as of this date the players and parents have shown an unwillingness to commit to anything resembling a team concept. Another post said the down fall to this idea is that there is only one ball on the field. Obviously, I'm not the only one who can clearly see what the problem is in this age group. Try away, good luck.
Have you ever wonder why so many of these players get great opportunities only to be sent home after a month or two.
Anonymous said... U16 final. Hard to believe that no local premier team is in the finals. Maybe premier status should be decided after state cup. Anyway, MTA White and SSM in the finals. MTA White has looked good so far. Play well together as a team (in contrast to MTA Blue which still has not come together). If SSM plays like they did against Bloomington it will be a sad ride home.
SCV 17 are now a long shot for MRL ticket to Regionals. 2 OH-S teams that did not win state cup, will go infront of them if they win their last games; one in their division to put them in 2nd place, and the other to go into 2nd place in the other division, but be ahead of them on goal differential(both last games against bottom of the table teams.) Also the 1st place team from the other division may not win their state cup. Since VLY will probably pound them again, they will have to wait to see what happens at MRL.
the only MRL division that matters is the blue division which is the one that SCV is in, each red and blue get one MRL bid to regionals, the worst that SCV can finish is second place and either one of two teams can finish there, both ohio south teams and they play each other, the eagles blue team that is in second currently won the ohio south state cup this weekend so if they win their last MRL game they win the blue division and then SCV would get the MRL bid if they lose to VLY, if team ohio beats eagles blue then they would be tied with SCV and they own the tiebreaker so they would go to regionals, and if they tie when they play SCV would be tied with eagles blue and owns the tie breaker against them so they would win the blue division
so after all of that confusion basically SCV still has a good shot at getting the MRL slot if they lose, but not a for sure one
So 50-50 is a good shot? The Eagles team has no incentive to win the game and will rest players. Team OH has everything to play for, including revenge. No chance Team OH looses. They Eagles might just pull and MA! Don't pack your bags yet.
Anyone who says that MTA will "easily" win -- especially against an organized team like SSM -- must have an agenda. The poster above who refers to the cruelty of the game has got it 100% correct. That cruelty could begin on Saturday with an upset by PSA which is defensive and geared to attack on the counter. And if they get past PSA, SSM will be a formidable challenge. People who think games play out at state cup based on reputation often have their hopes dashed. Think about Bangu last year against Edina in the U15 championship. Edina was not supposed to win, but they did.
11/5/09 1:37 PM
The bottom line is that cup play is CUP PLAY. People, seriously, if you know anything about this game, you know this stuff can happen to ANY team. Happens year after year in youth and pro soccer. Please, give any pathetic attacks on young players a rest. The game and life is hard enough without these stupid attacks.
Edina last year is a testament to the point that anyone can make it to state finals and win...it takes teamwork and a common goal. Not the best talent wins all the time.
Combining the best talent won't always win. You still need role players..example US basketball dream team.
How about the 2 best football teams in the world: Manchester United and Barcelona?
A lot of "role players" on those teams.
If you want to call Ryan Giggs a role player, whatever. Good coaches can turn a great player into role player. A good coach with any cajones can turn a 17-year-old into a role player.
If you knew how to manage, which roster would you rather have for equal $$: Yankees or Twins?
there are lots of "role players" on those teams. I've a devil myself so I'll stick to the team I know best, but look at holding midfielders like Fletcher, or better yet how about John O'Shea, he's played every position on the team for crying out loud. How about Wayne Rooney, considered by most to be a star striker, yet at times this year playing out on the left flank. A better term than role player is a TEAM PLAYER.
The Dream Team is a good analogy. You can't just slop all the "top talent" together and assume you have a championship worthy side. period.
there are lots of "role players" on those teams. I've a devil myself so I'll stick to the team I know best, but look at holding midfielders like Fletcher, or better yet how about John O'Shea, he's played every position on the team for crying out loud. How about Wayne Rooney, considered by most to be a star striker, yet at times this year playing out on the left flank. A better term than role player is a TEAM PLAYER.
The Dream Team is a good analogy. You can't just slop all the "top talent" together and assume you have a championship worthy side. period.
You're saying Wayne Rooney, a star striker, was turned into a role/team player? Exactly 12:46's point. What you're saying is that out of the top 16 players at U17 in Minnesota, none of them could play as a role/team player? Those must be quite the superstar players.
Fletcher and O'Shea would be stars outside of the top 8 teams in the world. Fletcher would be the best MF and O'Shea would be the best DEF in the US.
Give Alex Ferguson the most talented 16 players in MN and they win a national title. Give me Stockton, Mullin, Laettner, Cherokee Parks and Randy Breuer and I win a '92 gold medal.
Went to TopDrawer Soccer to see how the drama with the girls has now spread. Roaming around their web site to see this ranking, for the U18 Boys.
1. Diablo FC 2. Tulsa SC 3. Kansas City Wizards 4. Minnesota Thunder Academy 5. FC Blazers 6. SAC United 7. Westside Metros 8. Norcross Soccer Association 9. Del Mar Sharks 10. Impact
What does everyone think about U17 final, with the lack of "big" names left like MTA, AFC, SSM, BHK, how does this shake up? does SCV run away this thing? where did VLY come from after years of nothing but being mediocre?
SCV will win the final.. The loss too Apple Valley was due to over confidence, injuries, and the small field . I seen the SCV team at their best and after a weak performance against Apple Valley erlier in the tournament I juat can't see Valley beating once more.
big names at u17?St Croix won it last year and Valley won premier league and is about 13w 2l in the last two mrl seasons,those are the big names. Best two teams are in the final,#1 SCV plays #2 Valley
I haven't seen either U17 teams this year, but both seem to be playing very well at this time. I don't believe that SCV was over-confident/cocky last time they played. Give credit where it is due, Valley played well. The real difference I see here is that SCV has been in the championship game before and understands the pressure that game brings, Valley hasn't so they might be at a slight dis-advantage. And don't tell me that doesn't make a difference, players react diffently when stakes are higher, and that is true at any level you play at. I think the difference will be how both teams prepare for the game both phyiscally and mentally. Should be a great game to watch.
Yeah I heard teh U14 coach (Rob) is pretty strict. If you're late or missed training you don't start and you don't play first half. Good lesson for kids and parents. I think...
MTA must have thought they're going to play SCV again in the finals and didn't want to show anything...maybe it will backfire. SCV now has confidence going into the final.
CR, I think you're right. MTA U14s had already advanced whether they won the match or not. I think if what was posted above is true RZ killed 2 birds with 1 stone. Imposed discipline on the kids and also didn't show SCV what they would see the next weekend.
521 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 521 Newer› Newest»Duly noted. They are still the team to beat.
Interesting tidbit from reading the state cup rules, at U17 boys if VLY and SCV advance from group A, which seems likely at this point but not for sure, the winner of that group will play the winner from group C and the wildcard will play winner of group B, so that two teams both from group A do not play in the semi- finals
so most likely the matchups look like this for the semis:
VLY vs AFC
BHK vs SCV
I am amazed at the comments about the U18 match between SSM and MTA. I think it must be a bitter pill to realize with all the advantages present that SSM is not clearly 1 to 2 goals better than everyone. (If I trained as often and as hard I would expect to be.)
MTA may simply have more talent because the training while great is not close to what SSM offers.
Just a side note, how much sense does it make to have SSM U17 team playing Classic 1 this summer. Their first 2 matches total goals 16-0. I am sure the impact of community clubs will be postive, everybody should be able to learn life lessons by getting pounded.
I don't think that Rodrigo scored the free kick, it was Ryan McArthur, wasn't it?
Yeah, I read that too. I think he was at a different game. Batting the ball past the goalie with your arm is a questionable call, LOL. I thought it was Adler not Robson who make the save. But hey I can see how someone could confuse Robson and Adler one over six foot with short dark curly hair the other about 5'9" with long straight blond hair. Kind of puts the whole post in prospective.
As a U18 C1 player, I see a life lesson in getting pounded by SSM U17...We aren't THAT good and we should work harder and we should have worked harder and there is always someone out there that is better and working harder.
I don't care where the SSM players are coming from. They're just teenagers from the same universe as me. They've put in the time and effort throughout their lives to deserve to pound me and my team that hasn't put in equal time and effort. I know it's making me better by playing against them.
My family has money. I have a round soccer ball. I have access to grassy fields. It was my choice to play multiple sports and not work as hard at soccer as the SSM players.
So when my team gets to the high school season and we're pounding a small Class A team and we think we're really good with our All-State recognition, I will remember this life lesson...stay humble, we're not THAT good and there is somebody else out there working harder.
correction on the free kick (not a penalty, shattuck parent!) in the U18 game, it was Ryan MacArthur not Rodrigo Galvan who scored on the set piece.
I agree that false information makes that SSM parent look stupid and make his/her claim even more ridiculous, but one must understand the overall point.
I saw the game as my daughter plays for NSSA U15 and the fields were right next to each other.
There's no doubt that throughout the 2nd half and both overtimes Shattuck was definitely pressing hard against MTA, and MTA got pretty lucky with some good saves.
MTA should be applauded for their efforts and for beating a full time residential program. This shows that Minnesota soccer is definitely progressing!!!
So much for a 35k program!!!
Did not CK Gunderson finish the
U18B game for SSM?
That's GK not CK
MTA parent: in the end:
Ref a U12 game: $25
Coach a U13 game : $75
Parent at U17 game: precious
there is something money can't buy
enjoy state cup - life's too short to bitch all day at a bouncing ball
MTA 18's in 07 won the state cup in a shoot out. In 08 won the state cup in a shoot out. They are no strangers to shoot outs.
It doesn't seem like a year of State Cup goes by without someone complaining that the better team lost in a shoot out. I look at shoot out like this '. . . . MTA had the ball sitting still on the six yard line and put in on target 5 out of 5 times. They put the ball past the GK 4 out of 5 times. SSM with the ball sitting still on the six yard line put the ball on target 4 out of 5 times. SSM with the ball sitting still on the 6 yard line put the ball past the goalie 3 out of 5 times. In the end to be the better team a players have to perform the simple task of putting the ball on target and past the goalie. It is a system that that works in the shooters favor. SSM 5 best players wasn't able to do that.
six yard line?
i.e., penalty stripe.
I look at 12-yard shootouts like this:
By the nature of statistics, larger sample sizes eliminate the element of chance. Smaller sample sizes increase chance, i.e. luck.
If each team took 100 PKs, two quality teams like SSM and MTA would probably tie. With 5 PKs, there is an increased chance that a goalie guesses correctly, or a consistent shooter hits the pipe, etc. Shootouts don't determine the better team. Shootouts end the game.
On that day, MTA got luckier than SSM and won. Perhaps next time SSM will get luckier. Regardless, MTA is deserving of the victory this time. They won, fair and square.
RE: 12/5/09 6:22 PM
I can't believe no one commented.
Assuming this was a player...
That's one of the more thoughtful posts on this blog.
If he / she were my kid...
I'd say they were learning the kind of lesson we parents all say we want our kids to learn through sports.
A little humility, that's nice...
I agree that the U18 player has it right. Glad that person wrote.
That was clearly not written by a U18 let's be serious.
12:47, give it the benefit of the doubt. You know, there are young people who can write coherent and complete sentences.
And many of them do it far better than their rabid parents.
if it had been written by a U18 player you would have seen a lot of text shorthand like "u", "b4", "y", "2"......obviously written by someone not thrilled about SSM.
Here's what I learn from getting pounded by SSM.
I'm a doctor at Fairview. We lose a lot of patients that choose Mayo due to their reputation. In a sense, we get pounded by Mayo and their internationally recruited staff of doctors. However, the greatness and contributions of Mayo improves the quality of Fairview. Mayo's success is motivation to Fairview to do our very best work. We might not be #1, but we improve through learning from our experiences with Mayo. We're fortunate to have Mayo in MN.
Just to clarify, why did not MYSA just put SSM in with the Premier Level at the appropriate age? They would have been better off and their opponents would have enjoyed the competition. Playing U18 Cl is just an odd place to place them. All due respect to everyone but not alot is gained from 10-0 soccer matches.
5:47,
They did the same thing to a Bangu girls team a few years ago.
It ruined the league for all the other teams.
You need to be on the DOC or something to have your kids team placed properly.
Mama mia
that was not SSM and MTA first time playing each other. they tied the first time they met. and yes it does show who is the better team. it shows whos players can stand up to the task after 120 min of playing and putting a ball in the back of the net under pressure and MTA did that better than SSM.
well done MTA
here's what I happens when we all get fooled. I wrote that and was looking for reaction from MYSA. too bad no takers MYSA got it wright since no scores are kept
U-17 boys tonight
VLY 3
WSD 1
VLY wins MRL 1st division group
how was the game?Westside has dropped,why?
MYSA also put the SSM U16 girls into C3. So far, they have outscored opponents 26-0 and that is after only two games (with one being ended 20 minutes early).
The wisdom of MYSA is amazing. No one is getting anything out of these games, but they DID prove that rules should be applied without any consideration for what is actually the right thing to do. They should be overhauled.
The wisdom of "MYSA" is really the wisdom of the leaders of community clubs that propose and vote and pass these silly rule changes. You should visit the publication of MYSA Bylaws found here http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/publications/bylaws.cfm
Pay special attention to Article 5 and 9.
The rule that the MYSA competitive committee must follow that places these new teams at C3 is the same one that gives premier team's status to the club instead of the previous rule that said a team was comprised of 50% plus 1 of the previous year's roster (club jumping) Now those teams can ZERO players from the previous year. So while we persecute MYSA, lets clarify exactly who that is.
But isn't it interesting that the SCV Boys current U17 team was allowed to play in the C1 league as a new team yet a dominant group like current SSM girls must play at C3?
Different rules for different fools?
how is the u15 MTA team looking this year?
U15 MTA looks great, from a technical perspective. Sportsmanship wise, lot to be desired. AB needs to dust off his monologues about character, fair play, etc. Apparently good technical ability trumps good character at MTA. Sad that youth sports can't be different from professional sports.
any predictions on the u14 boys front? I hear psa has a couple of players who are dishonest and brutal. One shouldve been red carded two games back and the same player broke a bhk player's nose last game. A couple of psa boys (86 in particular) should not be allowed to play soccer. I hope the refs start to call them on their extended arms, thrown elbows, back pushing, jersey tugging, body hugging, and late tripping.
12:07
Nobody will touch MTA Blue at U14B. Prob their only slightly tougher game will come against SCV in the last group game and likely repeated in the final.
I saw the PSA/BHK game and it was a pretty rough challenge and he prob should have been red carded (kid on the game next to it was for far less). Rest of your comments are a bit harsh, and it is up to the ref to call foul play and enforce discipline, thats what hes there for.
i always love it when a person paints an entire organization with a viewpoint based on his perception of one player's actions.
11:36 - What character or sportsmanship flaws are you seeing?
2:00 - probably very few, sounds more like the parent of a child whose team came up on the short end.
2:06 - agreed. I've seen them play, and if by having character/sportsmanship flaws you mean they aren't swearing on the field, don't talk back to refs, don't throw hissy fits on the field, and just PLAY THE GAME, then I guess I would have to agree. They are one of the few teams I've watched in a long time that just comes to the field to play the game. Not the dirty crap, just p-l-a-y.... must be a new concept for some.
Two comments; 1- PSA is a dirty club. 2- MTA U15 blue is a bunch of crybabies. If their down or tied after one half, you see their true colors.
P.S. MTA 14s wont have a problem with SCV.
Yep...just as I figured....an Edina parent..and if true colors you mean they shook off the dust, then whatever.... which one of the perpetually 2 bitter dads are you? Some day you will find peace and beauty in the game, but until then there will always be someone else to blame I'm sure.
No, they had to file their fingernails and remove the evidence. You know, remove the threads from our jerseys.
Go back to the video man, don't know what game you were watching! Maybe take off the dark glasses on a cloudy day and you could see the game. Ughhh..
They're worse that the MRL teams frmo Wis. and Ill. I imagine that's the only way they can keep up with the good MRL teams.
Grow up Edina.
Re: 17B, several people post that SCV will be the wildcard. I don't see it.
Assume VLY, BHK and AFC win the brackets. SCV is 1-1-0 with a +2. At best, they could end up 2-1-0 and +5 with a 3-0 win over WDB, which is very possible. But...
A. Lakeville is also 1-1-0, but with a +4. If Lakeville beats WSD and gives up one goal or less, they will advance as the wildcard.
B. If BHK beats MTA in Group B, BHK wins the bracket and MTA would be the wildcard if they give up less than 2.
3:46 - MTA? If BHK beats MTA, then MTA would only have one win and two losses for 3 points.
Amazing that a team that didn't get a win in MRL, will probably go 0 for 3 in State Cup pool play, and has not earned premier yet would try to find excuses why they can't win. Oh I guess that isn't unheard of, but it might be why they will continue to be a C1 team.
Shirt pulling caused 5 goals against? I saw that game. Edina keeper made some terrific saves, and MTA missed several decent opportunities.
AB did show his class by playing their second keeper and subbing out his starters beginning as early as the 11th minute. MTA players appeared to believe 1/2 effort would be enough to win until half time, then put it back into 3/4 gear and dominated a team that was not prepared to play with the states best. Again, subs were made very early after the game was out of reach (2-0).
Ref even appeared to be calling the game like a David and Goliath match, in which he didn't want the score to be embarrassing (I am a referee and do not agree with this type of interference, a foul is a foul no matter who the kid plays for or when it occurs-1st or last minute). Wonder if he has an issue with the big bad MTA vs a CC, sure looked like it.
LET THE BOYS PLAY- STATE CUP IS A COMPETITION TO FIND THE BEST TEAM AT EACH AGE. NOT EVERYONE IS A WINNER, AND IF THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR GO BACK TO U9'S OR REC LEAGUE AND FORGET ABOUT REALITY.
I also agree with the post regarding PSA being a rough club, and that is from first hand experience refereeing multiple age groups.
3:46- The Lakeville GD is wrong on the MYSA site. It is impossible to be +4 when 1-1 because of the 3 goal max. They are actually a -2 currently. They counted the 3 goals against them vs. Arsenal for them by mistake.
If BHK wins at 12 on Saturday all SCV has to do is win by any score against WDB to advance as WC.
If BHK ties with MTA the same would hold true for SCV.
There are a few different things that could happen depending on the score if BHK losses to MTA.
SSM only has a chance if both MTA and SCV lose because of GD.
This is all with the assumption AFC and VLY take care of things on their end. I believe AFC already has won the group though with the head to head over LKV the only team that can catch them.
ah, MYSA scoring error. I was just looking at the LKV GF/GA column, and not the scores. Do you think it may be an MYSA conspiracy against SCV?
If MTA beats BHK, SCV could be in trouble.
So, 4:00pm, who do you like in SCV v. PSA at U15B?
If MTA beats BHK 3-0, SCV can't catch them. However, that would put BHK on 6 pts with +3 goal differential. So SCV, could still pass BHK with a 3 goal win, regardless of goals against. If SCV win by 3 goals, there is no scenario to stop them from advancing. If they win by 2 goals or fewer and give up goals, they could be in trouble. Obviously, a tie or loss and SCV are done. Even though I'm not a SCV-club fan, I can't see WDB beating them.
I agree with the earlier post about Edina and “the dad’s” there are two or three of them that are a hoot. Years of watching them try to compete with my son’s team and there endless reasons for why things just never seem to work out. I see their best player is now over at MU and finally playing with some talent, coaching and decent training. Maybe after all these years it is time to accept the fact that you are C1 talent and there is nothing wrong with that. Let your kids compete, have fun and grow. Daddy’s money cannot buy talent, but it has ruined a lot of father son relationships
4:33 No way, Moriarty's son is a product of SCV and Klonecki was his coach. You may be interrupting it the wrong way.
boys predictions
U13 - MT? over MT? in the final
U14 - MTA Blue over SCV
U15 - MTA Blue over PSA (closer than most will think)
U16 - SSM over EDP
U17 - up for grabs! VLY over ???
U18 - MTA over EDP
U19 - VLY over WBL
comments?
MTA over Woodbury in league (both in 13B State Cup semis) 11-0. No joke.
From what I've seen the level and quality of play is certainly increasing.
We're nearly there, people, so let's all offer thoughts, similar to 9:39. One rule: No name-calling!
U13: MTA will beat MTA. However, none of the parents will remember which team their son is on, so there will be 30 minutes of confusion after the game as MYSA representatives sort things out.
U14: MTA will beat NSSA. SCV U14s have a history of struggling when it matters. They will not win their semi. NSSA has been very impressive, but MTA is the only team in the bunch with strong defending.
U15: MTA Blue will beat PSA. I agree it will be close, but while PSA is quick and drrrty, MTA is smarter and more skilled. If MTA can keep their composure, they will find a way to slow down PSA's strikers. MTA has a strong keeper too.
U16: MTA Blue will beat SCV. Many think MTA is down with injuries, but they've had the best players in the state since U13. They have depth, and will pull it together to beat SSM in the semi. Strong defending SCV will beat EDP in the other semi.
U17: VLY will beat AFC. Not sure if they will ultimately meet in a final, but they were the two most talented teams I watched last weekend.
U18: MTA will ride their victory over SSM and beat EDP. That said, what was up with the MTA keeper? He was fabulous in the shootout, but then left in an ambulance. All bets are off if he doesn't play.
U19: No idea, as I've seen neither play.
American Idiot...if VLY and AFC were the most talented teams you watched in Isanti at U17 it's my guess you showed up for the 2PM games and skipped the noon ones.
American Idiot,
I agree with 3:32. I think the 3 best U17 teams might be in Group B, with VLY being the 4th best team. AFC will lose in the semifinals after coming out of the weakest group. BHK has been the most impressive so far after destroying both SSM and a weak SCVC1 team. The big game is BHK-MTA on Saturday.
The semifinals will probably be VLY-SCV-BHK-AFC. The 4 best teams are probably BHK-SSM-MTA-VLY.
It's safe to say it's a crapshoot at the top between BHK-SSM-MTA-VLY-SCV-AFC. Then I would say it's a crapshoot between the other 6 teams with WSD being the top team.
EP will beat MTA, they wanted an opportunity last year. They will win 3-1
SCV 1 WBD 1
VLY 3 EAG 0
MTA 2 BHK 0
SCV 0 SSM 5
WSD 1 LKV 1
AFC 3 EDP 2
17B
BHK 2 MTA 1
good call 8:10.
Good luck PSA u16boys today vs MTA !! U CAN DO IT !!!
17B Final
SSM 4 SCV 0
17B in progress
SCV 1 WBD 0
VLY 4 EAG 1
AFC 0 EDP 0
WSD 1 LKV 0
So, if that keeps on
Group A Winner VLY
Group B Winner BHK
Group C Winner AFC
Wildcard - SCV +3 goals against 3
beating SSM for the wildcard slot, SSM +1 goals against 5.
U-17 semi's
VLY vs. AFC
BHK vs. SCV
4:09 your incorrect. only 3 goals count toward differential. SCV must win by 2 to get the wildcard. Otherwise its SSM. Don't know if 4:17 is guessing or telling?
4:17 is telling that is what they are
Wow who would have thought before the draw that SSM and MTA would not make the semis at 17 boys?
Congrats to AFC, BHK, SCV and VLY. Glad to see that BHK and VLY did not get each other in the semi-final. I think BHK and VLY are the 2 best teams right now.
MTA u16 BOYS ARE OUT !!!!!! good job PSA !!!!
SSM vs PSA in semi-final
LETS GO SABRES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
U13 Boys Final will be MTA vs MTA.
Bangu/MTA U14 and U15 boys are through to semi-finals.
no one cares about u13 or u14 let alone u15
zero premier or MRL only teams through to semi's in 16 boys, all C1 teams
MTA and SSM U18 Boys in final tomorrow.
.....time warp, i think that was last weekend unless you are referring to the girls U18 game tomorrow. MTA vs EP tomorrow at U18 Boys.
go NSSA U14 boys!!!!!!! They will take it all!!!!
Yes, I'm a parent.
does the S in PSA stand for Somalia?
U14 boys. Nssa all the way!!!!
Sierra Leone much better players than Somalia or maybe it stands for Sweden. Either way what does it matter. That is a racial remark and does not belong anywhere. Humans are humans and soccer players are soccer players.
58% of SCV teams made the final four.
53% of MTA/E/W/N teams made it.
Not bad for a club where 90% of the players live within 10 miles of the lift bridge.
Go Celtic!
PSA 16 boys win 3 group games 1 0,they are c1 and knocked out mta mrl premier,thats coaching for you.
Will Inside mn soccer be doing an article on how mta and ssm failed to make the semis at state cup for 17s,looking forward to reading about that one.
Congrats to Blackhawks,you did Mn proud!
Looks like Thunder boys teams are in semifinals at following ages:
U13,U14,U15,U16,U18
Isn't U17 the age group where there is a ton of talent but it's spread across 5 or 6 teams?
If that's still the case then whoever wins this age group will struggle to win even 1 game at Region 2 Championships.
We saw that with this age group last year at U16 Championships in Rockford even with a favorable draw.
Blackhawks did MN proud because MTA and SSM did not advance at U17? How is that even close to a logical statement?
8 53am,I dont see any post that says that?
6:56, yes the talent is spread out but, these teams can compete regionally
SCV is top in MRL premier and may get into regionals even if they dont win
VLY won MRL 1st division and will be MRL premier next season beating last years regional runners-up in doing so
AFC is tied with MTA in first in their MRL 1st division bracket and could get MRL premier, either them or MTA will get it
BHK beat MTA and SSM who have competed regionally with the top teams, BHK hasnt done much else other than state cup this season so far
i think that this year this age group has proven that they can compete with the best in the region and will have a much better showing at regionals
Wasn't SCV the Minnesota rep last year and failed to win a game even though they has Nebraska and South Dakota in their draw?
but, but, but if they had scored a goal here or a goal there, they would have made it to the semi's......
I've heard of "Wouldabury", not sure if "Shouldawater" has the same ring to it.
I think ssm raised the level of 17s this spring.Everyone got their butts kicked by them this winter and knew they had to improve.
This age group is the real deal,the top c1 sides would be premier in other age groups.
Well here it goes.
AFC 2 Valley 1
SCV 1 B'Hawks 2
final:B'Hawks 3 Afc 1
Oh come on everyone. you guys really think that MN soccer is better at this age group because svc, afc, mta play well at mrl? the reality is that mn soccer still can not compete regionally when it comes to the boys side. svc, afc and mta are not playing against the top teams in this region in mrl or regionals and they are actually playing the second best teams. Fc milwaukee, St. louis scott gallagher, chicago magic, kc wizard, vardar, ohio internationals ussually dominates the region but their top teams are in the US academy system and are not competing in mrl or regionals.
your sons are actually competing against the second level teams. Thus, for mn soccer to be able to compete nationally, the top players must play together instead of spreading out to multiple teams. mn does not have the depth like other states and i don't see that other states have them either as to the fact mn teams are winning against their second level teams.
9:51 - IMO, the biggest difference between these teams over the winter and now is the playing together and jelling as teams. SSM has a huge leg up early in the year as they have been training together for months while the MN boys are just coming off high school seasons in late October. At U17 technical skills don't improve dramatically, but teamwork and tactical skill do.
9:57 is also correct.
Others have already posted about the demise of MRL. But come one, no academy teams play in MRL any more. That is at least the top 10-12 Region 2 teams at 16, 17 and 18. The 17 group is deep, but the number of quality players in the age group is similar to others. They are all spread out on different teams. Last years SCV 16 boys showed how they stack up regionally, winning 0 games in one of the softest draws anyone could hope for at Regionals. I would expect a similar result for this years MN 17 boys team at regionals.
I didn’t know Edina was 10 miles from the Lift Bridge. SCV is not a community club and the players are not from a small area as you have described. You draw from all of the East Metro and even further. Your need to show that your club is #1 is silly. Your % comparison is almost laughable. MTA entered far more teams. Most MTA teams play state cup as a measuring stick. Overall club strength should be measured more by semi finalist and club quality by finalists and championships.
Ok, but putting my personal distain from about a ½ dozen SCV coaches/admins aside. Semi teams not counting U19s because there was no competition to get to the semis and finals:
16 MTA (last year 17)
7 SCV (last year 4)
4 EDP, PSA, SSM
3 WDB
2 NSS
1 AFC, BHK, BVL, CDA, KLX, MUS, TNK, VLY & WYZ
I will say that 7 semi finalist for SCV is impressive. NSS with 2 is also an accomplishment for a club that hasn’t had a semi finalist for a long time (as far back as I can remember.) On the disappointment side, BHK and WYZ really stand out. How can clubs with their history fall so far?
SCV’s increase from 4 semi finalist last year to 7 this year is also impressive. MTA has one less than BNG and WNG combined last year. Hmmm, is the Thunder management going to put their ‘magic touch’ on the youth program as well? I would have expected a few more semi finalists this year. We’ll see if MTA can at least match the number of championships as last 2 year (8 each year.)
I still believe that SCV, WDB, VLY and BHK should merge their top talent in the East, and EDP, PSA, WYZ and TNK in the West to make more teams competitive with MTA.
8:55, scroll up 3 posts from mine.
The thing that is interesting is when you look at the U13 age groups for boys and girls.
Thunder teams have 3 of the 4 semi-finalists in both boys and girls brackets.
Their academy approach at younger ages is yielding results.
Any update on the u14 boys games being played now?
Congrats to MTA U-18 Boys.
u14 boys isnt too hot,mta has way too much talent and will win.
U17 Final scores
VLY 3 AFC 0
SCV 3 BHK 0
Final VLY vs SCV
any u16boys scores yet ?
a little surprising how easy the semis appear to of been.Blackhawks knock off SSM and MTA but get spanked by St Croix 3 0,it truly shows how deep the age group is.SSM cant get in semis and their group winner loses by 3.
Final is between two very consistent teams,2 1 St Croix.
So U17 Group A was the Group of Death?
group A,group of death?Hardly,the two good teams are in the final and the two c1 teams didnt get a tie.
I see a lot of mta promotion on this blog.They took players from Bangu,players from Wings,AFC s center mids,Westsides #1 goalscorer and then some.They finished 3rd in the group.The group winners were too strong for them{Blackhawks}the group winners then lost 3 0 to St Croix.I think that shows that collecting players does not always work,sometimes it is about the right blend and team chemistry as well as coaching.
The best coach at 17s is St Croixs,he makes no friends along the way but wins.
The U17 age group isn't deeper than any other age. And unfortunately for the state the talent is spread across several teams.
As someone noted earlier last year's U16 winner lucked out and received a sweetheart draw and still didn't win a game at Regions.
My hunch is whoever wins U17 will struggle to win a game again this year.
What about the previous years before last? I believe the age group sent a team to the semi's of regions each year, correct me if I'm wrong. It is a deep age group accept it.
yeah right,they'll struggle to win a game!
Valley won the first division at ease,St Croix may win the premier division they are top right now.
The 17 group is deeper than any other group,fact supports that.
The team that received the "sweetheart draw" last year is a great team,beat blackhawks 3 0.
I know you wish mta could draw in all the top players at 17 to be 18 but face it,your nothing at this age,Valley and St Croix proved that,Blackhawks did the dirty work by beating the average mta and ssm teams despite all the recruiting.
Man did that Blackhawks coach ever out coach the the group but then he ran in to St Croix,3 0,not exactly debatable.
at 13s a finalist,at 14 and 15 a semi finalist and at 16 a team that was a goal away from semis.I am not so sure that that is under acheiving.,
mta will always try to maintain that the talent is spread too thin,they hope to get the best players,win and then brag.So much for development!MTA hasnt really got close{inc old Bangu} since u13 and is frustrated that other cc clubs continue to excel.
Why on earth would you not bring all the best players to zahl and the current coach of mta at 17s,how dare we not leave St Croix and Valley!
Ok here what I seem has ahppeing right now....
MTA will end up winning as many or more State Cup championships as they did last year.
Nobody is ever going to win them all as this never happens in any state.
It's good that other clubs have accelerated their training and programs in efforts to "keep up with the Joneses" as the overall level of soccer will continue to improve in this state.
I think you mean Jones's,retard.
One more time.....
U13 Championship - PSA v MTW
U14 Championship - MTA v SCV
U15 Championship - MTA v MUS
U16 Championship - MTW v SSM
U17 Championship - VLY v SCV
U18 Champions MTA. EDP Finalist
If that information is correct it looks like MTA/MTW seems to be doing ok. In fact, I think a good argument could be made that MTW seems to be really benefiting from the new situation.
U17 - Thank God I DONT HAVE A KID IN THIS AGE GROUP. Just watching from the outside is enough to drive us all crazy. "The 17 group is deeper than any other group, fact supports that." Well you almost got it right. The 17 group is deeper than any other group with over involved parents who have and continue to manipulate situations in order for them to feel important, facts supports that. Here how I see it. I no longer believe the hype from these parents, I think there are 16 talented players in this age group. Then there are bunches of pretty good players with parents who know in order for their child to look good and achieve the kind of success that makes them feel good about themselves they need to keep the divisions deep and the talent spread. For example, Anon 9:08 comments trashing coaches, what was the purpose of your comments?
10:49 -- For U13, MTE (MTA Blue) is matched up against MTA 1 (MTA White). Although no one really cares about the U13 age group, they perhaps should. The level of play in that age group, especially the MTA Blue team, is exceptional. It is a sign of great things to come.
Sorry, it is late, my mistake. I didn't get to see any of there games.
10:49, i think it is even more funny how many people try to disprove how talented that age group is, both sides of the situation are ridic, just leave it alone, we will see how talented this age group is in one, two, maybe three years when we see who plays college soccer, or maybe pro soccer we will find out at that point, until then lets just leave the whole situation alone, can we agree on that?
10:33- It is actually the Joneses, and not the Jones's. In the context, the Jones family doesn't own anything. Therefore there is no apostrophe. Thus, I am fairly certain who the learning impared individual really is. Are you an EP father with an African accent and dark skin who drives a blue Lexus? If so, I understand.
ABSOLUTELY!!! I'll be honest I'm just tired of seeing that same old post again and again and again.
Anon 10:33,
It is keeping up with the "Joneses".
Who's the retard?
"Keeping up with the Joneses" is a catchphrase in many parts of the English-speaking world referring to the comparison to one's neighbour as a benchmark for social caste or the accumulation of material goods.
Google it if you don't believe me.
anon 5:49,
Don't expect a lot of intelligence from some of these bloggers.
Thunder boys teams are finalists or champions 5 of the 6 age groups in which they entered teams.
Thunder girls teams are finalists or champions in 5 of the 7 age groups.
Frankly, given the MTA mission of state domination, I'd think anything less than MTA Blue v MTA White in every age group would be considered a failure. Oh well, too bad this year, maybe with a few more marketing dollars and recruiting speeches you can gather the remaining good players.
anon 7:44,
Do you think any of the finalists at State Cup got where they're at without recruiting?
Open your eyes, man.
Also look across the entire USA state by state.
Even the top ranked clubs in the country don't win State Cup in every age group they enter.
Relax and enjoy the soccer.
anon 7:44,
Where did you hear or see MTA mission is "state domincation?"
Are you dreaming this?
Yeah, 7:44. MTA merely wants to teach youth a love for the world's beautiful game. The wins and state cup championships and freaked out parents are by-products.
Take the top 1-3 Minnesota players from the top 10 teams at U17 and put them all on MTA or Blackhawks. That team would win nationals even with an MTA coach.
The roster would be the top 3 from VLY, 3 from SCV, 3 from BHK, 2 from ARS, 3 from MTA, 1 from SSM, 1 from LKV, 1 from WSD, 1 from EAG, 1 from EDP.
That roster would be ridiculously talented.
Same post again, and again, and again.
It gets old, but I agree with 9:57. It's rare to have the top 18 players of an age group spread amongst so many equally mediocre teams.
It's too bad that this group has always cared more about winning in Minnesota than about winning in the region or the nation.
The parent coaches and DOCs of PSA, Bangu, Wings, White Bear, Blackhawks and Valley are to blame for not acting on this 2-3 years ago.
Wait, that's what MTA is attempting now. Kudos to them for at least trying.
"Take the top 1-3 Minnesota players from the top 10 teams at U17 and put them all on MTA or Blackhawks. That team would win nationals even with an MTA coach."
not true... not even close to true... so far from being true its almost comical.
I think it is true.
If you don't think it's true, I think you have an inflated opinion of the competition from Sockers, Vardar, Gallagher and Internationals.
That U17 collection of players would probably be the most talented collection of MN boys players since 1990. We've had some teams not too far off from winning the region, including this age group getting to the semifinals a few years ago with a PSA group that wouldn't come close to a statewide collection of players described above.
Besides, club name doesn't win championships. Look how MTA, Blackhawks and SSM did at U17 State Cup.
it would never happen as the last time I looked there is only one soccer ball allowed out on the field. this would be completely unacceptable to not only the players, but more importantly to their parents (especially a few of the dads). how can little landon stand out and shine when there are other stars just as bright around him......
its not true. You have an over inflated sense of Minnesota talents. There is a nice little piece in Inside MN Soccer pointing out the fact that in terms of participating on the boys side MN has the second highest number of boys playing soccer in Region II, yet the smallest number who move on to play NCAA Division I soccer.
As someone who has lived and coached in other parts of Region II, its incredibly ignorant to assume that if MN pooled its talent in any given age group it would "win nationals." Shoot if all of MN pooled its talent it might not even beat just Cal South alone head to head, now take every top team from every state and throw them into the mix.
That statement is clearly coming from someone who DOES NOT KNOW WHAT IT TAKES TO WIN A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, which all things being considered it predicable coming out of a MN blog.
I'd be curious to see what DM over at AHA has to say about this. he actually WON a U17 USYSA National Championship in 2001 out of Ohio South. Of course, he's been banished to the wasteland that is known as "girls soccer" for almost a decade now so he's probably lost touch with all sense of reason and reality at this point.
I do know that he has told me that the team he won the title with was, and i quote him "not the best team in the nation and maybe not even the best team in the region" in terms of talent. i think that speaks to 12:46s point about what it takes to win a title like that.
U16 MTA losing to PSA sums up their season, disappointing, Cody Cropper leaving is one excuse, many injuries are another, but in the end they need to consider changing things, many useless players, including their keeper who has lost them multiple MRL games and would never have been played if Cropper had not departed. That team deserved a better ending with all that talent but some players ruined the year for them.
Best players dont mean best team. It's having the right mix of players to achieve a common goal for a team not their individual self. (Miracle on Ice for example) I don't think taking the top 18 players by skill would work here. With the right mix it could work but the way things are now the teams are doing fine regionally.
Look back at this age group like someone pointed out before.
U13- Bangu- won group with ND, MI, OH-N. Beat MO in Semi's lost to IL 3-1 in Region Final.
U14- SuperEagles- won group with KY, SD, NE. Lost in Region Semi's 3-2.
U15- SuperEagles- won group with MRL, OH-S, OH-N. Lost in Region Semi's 3-1.
U16- St. Croix- tied SD, NE. Lost 2-1 to MRL team. Did not advance.
U17- St. Croix or Valley will represent, maybe even both pending MRL.
12:58 - DM won that national championship with Team Dayton SC out of Ohio South. They may not have been the "most talented" but they had plenty of it. Two examples; Mark Burch (DC United) and Chris Rolfe (Chicago Fire) were on that team I believe.
My favorite story about that team is when they were down 4-0 at regionals to Indy Inferno and won the match 5-4. That unbelievable rally set them on their path to the National Championship.
And yet, 1:09, it is safe to say that at U16, MTA has the best players. Every U16 who thinks he's great tried out for that team.
And so, you accumulate all the best players at an age group, and what happens? No MRL wins and not even advancing out of the State Cup bracket. I know, I know, losing two great players to injury and a keeper to the national team hurts, but on paper, MTA has the best 18 (not 11) players. Sometimes you need more than players (i.e., coaching, chemistry, common understanding of "team," etc.)
I think putting the top U17s on one team would be a train wreck.
Implying that a statewide MN team can't compete nationally is like saying a south-suburban MN team can't compete with a nationally recruited team.
Wait, Valley United just won 3-0 to go to the final while SSM couldn't get out of their group.
To mama mia's point, MN has come close at regions with mediocre teams. If you can win the region, you can win nationals. The midwest has won plenty of nationals.
If the Gophers had a men's team, our D1 participation would quadruple. Some of the MIAC schools would compete with, maybe not beat, some of the D1 schools in CA.
There isn't that much difference. Just like the Thunder aren't that much different than the Wizards. Or our C1 teams aren't that much different than some of our premier teams.
It takes a talented and disciplined team with a good coach and a little luck to win any championship at any level anywhere in the world.
Please don't bring the winless Thunder into this.
Who is their keeper anyway? He cant be that bad if he made it over the goalie for the white team, that kid is pretty good.
He is that really annoying kid from Blackhawks, I always thought he was a decent keeper with a terrible attitude, never thought he was ODP or even MTA quality, I think that they need to replace him with someone who can help lead the team instead of being a team cancer. As for the rest of the team Miller is great, Cropper was great, Mohammed is good but it can be noted that he has been going downhill, #5 in back is a stud, #17 is a very very gifted player with potential from blackhawks, same with #13, but overall this team has excellent talent and i agree that some players really hurt them this year.
They need the forward from their white team, he is a strong player, they also need the keeper from the white team he's great.
the problem isn't talent, its athleticism. In larger "talent pools" like Chicago, Los Angeles, etc... top clubs can identify all the most talented players, but then pick the best ATHLETES of the bunch. What you get, are better all around players. From what I've seen of MN soccer thus far its painfully nonathletic comparatively, which is one of the main reasons for the disparity in participation vs DI programs.
Even if you added DI soccer to the U for example, there would still be a huge gap.
Minnesota has plenty of horses, not that many thoroughbreds.
His name is Zack Brown and all I have heard is that he is the most inconsistent keeper in State cup but on a good day is alright.
U16 final. Hard to believe that no local premier team is in the finals. Maybe premier status should be decided after state cup. Anyway, MTA White and SSM in the finals. MTA White has looked good so far. Play well together as a team (in contrast to MTA Blue which still has not come together). If SSM plays like they did against Bloomington it will be a sad ride home.
LOL well that is a new one. Let us see here are the orders of excuses I have seen in the past.
1) MN Soccer does not draw enough players
2) MN soccer players are not committed to training for soccer. MN is Hockey orientated. 3) Now, we do not attract the best athletes. MN players all have two left feet.
I played a different sport at the National level growing up, here some of the things it takes
1)Good Athletes committed to TEAM
2)Good Athletes committed to TRAINING
3)LUCK
You need good athletes not amazing athletes. In any sports unless they are will to committed to TEAM & TRAINING you would be with just the good old garden variety good athlete. Luck has just as much to do with it as anything else.
the MTA u18 boys are 5 in a row state cup champions...thats pretty impressive
U16 MTA does not have the best players, a decent number of them play U17 soccer and always have played a year up, at least 5-6 players that would be considered in the best 18 players in that age group, 4 of them with VLY, a couple AFC and BHK
Here's an idea:
Let's assume the best players in the country can't compete with the best in the world, so let's just send a mediocre team to the World Cup. It won't be our most talented team, but they will be a good mix of experienced players like Jeff Agoos, Brian Ching, Frankie Hejduk and Claudio Reyna. They are all great TEAM players and it would be a feel-good miracle on grass if they won.
We'll leave our most talented players at home because they aren't great for TEAM and it won't be a thrilling miracle if they won. We'll leave Jozmer Altidore, Freddie Adu, Jonathan Spector, Danny Szetela and Taylor Twellman at home or on the bench.
Sounds like a great idea. Let's assume our most talented players would be unwilling to play on one team, so let's not even try.
ANON 3:02 I don't know if you missed the point or just don't want to get the point. Unless the "most talented players" want to play as a team and work hard they are no good to anyone. "We'll leave our most talented players at home because they aren't great for TEAM and it won't be a thrilling miracle if they won." and "Let's assume our most talented players would be unwilling to play on one team, so let's not even try." huh?? Maybe I wasn't clear in my post, but unless your "most talented players" are willing to be apart of a team and work hard they won't be winning much of anything. Nobody said don't try. But as of this date the players and parents have shown an unwillingness to commit to anything resembling a team concept. Another post said the down fall to this idea is that there is only one ball on the field. Obviously, I'm not the only one who can clearly see what the problem is in this age group. Try away, good luck.
Have you ever wonder why so many of these players get great opportunities only to be sent home after a month or two.
Anonymous said...
U16 final. Hard to believe that no local premier team is in the finals. Maybe premier status should be decided after state cup. Anyway, MTA White and SSM in the finals. MTA White has looked good so far. Play well together as a team (in contrast to MTA Blue which still has not come together). If SSM plays like they did against Bloomington it will be a sad ride home.
18/5/09 2:20 PM
SCV 17 are now a long shot for MRL ticket to Regionals. 2 OH-S teams that did not win state cup, will go infront of them if they win their last games; one in their division to put them in 2nd place, and the other to go into 2nd place in the other division, but be ahead of them on goal differential(both last games against bottom of the table teams.) Also the 1st place team from the other division may not win their state cup. Since VLY will probably pound them again, they will have to wait to see what happens at MRL.
Why not keep them going with 19s included:
Club Finalist Semi (last year)
MTA 12 (13) 17 (18)
EDP 3 4
SCV 3 7
SSM 2 4
VLY 2 3
WDB 1 3
I think the SCV accountant has dropped out as his club has now moved to 3rd.
the only MRL division that matters is the blue division which is the one that SCV is in, each red and blue get one MRL bid to regionals, the worst that SCV can finish is second place and either one of two teams can finish there, both ohio south teams and they play each other, the eagles blue team that is in second currently won the ohio south state cup this weekend so if they win their last MRL game they win the blue division and then SCV would get the MRL bid if they lose to VLY, if team ohio beats eagles blue then they would be tied with SCV and they own the tiebreaker so they would go to regionals, and if they tie when they play SCV would be tied with eagles blue and owns the tie breaker against them so they would win the blue division
so after all of that confusion basically SCV still has a good shot at getting the MRL slot if they lose, but not a for sure one
So 50-50 is a good shot? The Eagles team has no incentive to win the game and will rest players. Team OH has everything to play for, including revenge. No chance Team OH looses. They Eagles might just pull and MA! Don't pack your bags yet.
As for the U16 semifinal, I worte this on May 11:
Anyone who says that MTA will "easily" win -- especially against an organized team like SSM -- must have an agenda. The poster above who refers to the cruelty of the game has got it 100% correct. That cruelty could begin on Saturday with an upset by PSA which is defensive and geared to attack on the counter. And if they get past PSA, SSM will be a formidable challenge. People who think games play out at state cup based on reputation often have their hopes dashed. Think about Bangu last year against Edina in the U15 championship. Edina was not supposed to win, but they did.
11/5/09 1:37 PM
The bottom line is that cup play is CUP PLAY. People, seriously, if you know anything about this game, you know this stuff can happen to ANY team. Happens year after year in youth and pro soccer. Please, give any pathetic attacks on young players a rest. The game and life is hard enough without these stupid attacks.
Wow, were did that come from? Pathetic attacks on young players? Were some post delete? Did I miss somthing?
Edina last year is a testament to the point that anyone can make it to state finals and win...it takes teamwork and a common goal. Not the best talent wins all the time.
Combining the best talent won't always win. You still need role players..example US basketball dream team.
How about the 2 best football teams in the world: Manchester United and Barcelona?
A lot of "role players" on those teams.
If you want to call Ryan Giggs a role player, whatever. Good coaches can turn a great player into role player. A good coach with any cajones can turn a 17-year-old into a role player.
If you knew how to manage, which roster would you rather have for equal $$: Yankees or Twins?
there are lots of "role players" on those teams. I've a devil myself so I'll stick to the team I know best, but look at holding midfielders like Fletcher, or better yet how about John O'Shea, he's played every position on the team for crying out loud. How about Wayne Rooney, considered by most to be a star striker, yet at times this year playing out on the left flank. A better term than role player is a TEAM PLAYER.
The Dream Team is a good analogy. You can't just slop all the "top talent" together and assume you have a championship worthy side. period.
there are lots of "role players" on those teams. I've a devil myself so I'll stick to the team I know best, but look at holding midfielders like Fletcher, or better yet how about John O'Shea, he's played every position on the team for crying out loud. How about Wayne Rooney, considered by most to be a star striker, yet at times this year playing out on the left flank. A better term than role player is a TEAM PLAYER.
The Dream Team is a good analogy. You can't just slop all the "top talent" together and assume you have a championship worthy side. period.
Exactly! Thank you. I think you got the verbage correct. Give me 16 talented team players over 16 super stars!
You're saying Wayne Rooney, a star striker, was turned into a role/team player? Exactly 12:46's point. What you're saying is that out of the top 16 players at U17 in Minnesota, none of them could play as a role/team player? Those must be quite the superstar players.
Fletcher and O'Shea would be stars outside of the top 8 teams in the world. Fletcher would be the best MF and O'Shea would be the best DEF in the US.
Give Alex Ferguson the most talented 16 players in MN and they win a national title. Give me Stockton, Mullin, Laettner, Cherokee Parks and Randy Breuer and I win a '92 gold medal.
This is getting boring. Can we talk about the MTA 12-13G debacle instead?
Can someone provide a brief summary of what happened at U13G?
Hey Block Heads, go to the girls blog and figure it out. And please, stay there to rehash it.
Who is playing in U16 and U17 boys final?
U16
MTW vs SSM
U17
SCV vs VLY
Is valley united good? I watched St. Croix. They are very talented.
U17b valley is extremely under-rated, agreed?
2:50 there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SO MANY counter examples that go against your argument its not even funny.
5:38, Valley already beat St. Croix 3-2 earlier in state cup
Went to TopDrawer Soccer to see how the drama with the girls has now spread. Roaming around their web site to see this ranking, for the U18 Boys.
1. Diablo FC
2. Tulsa SC
3. Kansas City Wizards
4. Minnesota Thunder Academy
5. FC Blazers
6. SAC United
7. Westside Metros
8. Norcross Soccer Association
9. Del Mar Sharks
10. Impact
Cool!
TopDrawerSoccer is a terrible source.
So, your saying that AD from SSM really shouldn't be amoung the top 100 players to see?
Let me rephase, for team rankings, it is not a good source, there are better.
What does everyone think about U17 final, with the lack of "big" names left like MTA, AFC, SSM, BHK, how does this shake up? does SCV run away this thing? where did VLY come from after years of nothing but being mediocre?
SCV will win the final.. The loss too Apple Valley was due to over confidence, injuries, and the small field . I seen the SCV team at their best and after a weak performance against Apple Valley erlier in the tournament I juat can't see Valley beating once more.
3-1 SCV
why would SCV be over confident against VLY they have lost 3 straight to them now
MTA will win the U15 and U14 finals...won't be close.
MTA rocks!!!!
big names at u17?St Croix won it last year and Valley won premier league and is about 13w 2l in the last two mrl seasons,those are the big names.
Best two teams are in the final,#1 SCV plays #2 Valley
Its not to SWEET for shattuck this year
Why not?
Shattuck is losing like snails lose there shells when they get bigger
It is tough to continue beating a team when overall abilities are similar. But I think VLY will prevail in the U17 final.
I haven't seen either U17 teams this year, but both seem to be playing very well at this time. I don't believe that SCV was over-confident/cocky last time they played. Give credit where it is due, Valley played well. The real difference I see here is that SCV has been in the championship game before and understands the pressure that game brings, Valley hasn't so they might be at a slight dis-advantage. And don't tell me that doesn't make a difference, players react diffently when stakes are higher, and that is true at any level you play at. I think the difference will be how both teams prepare for the game both phyiscally and mentally.
Should be a great game to watch.
U14 Boys MTA Blue vs SCV. What about this game. MTA tied SCV in group play I hear. What do you all think?
2 0 mta
MTA U14 coach sat 4 starters in the match vs SCV because they showed up late for the game.
they always start the same 11,the 4 never played a minute?
I don't think the 4 played at all in entire 1st half and only played a portion of 2nd half.
Yeah I heard teh U14 coach (Rob) is pretty strict. If you're late or missed training you don't start and you don't play first half. Good lesson for kids and parents. I think...
MTA must have thought they're going to play SCV again in the finals and didn't want to show anything...maybe it will backfire. SCV now has confidence going into the final.
CR,
I think you're right.
MTA U14s had already advanced whether they won the match or not.
I think if what was posted above is true RZ killed 2 birds with 1 stone.
Imposed discipline on the kids and also didn't show SCV what they would see the next weekend.
Wouldn it be something if in the U16 age, MTA White won it all...MTA Blue is not there and the White is playing a Goliath in SSM. Fun to watch!
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