what are truly the best age/gender teams in the state? i would guess the ssm u19 boys team that almost won nationals is probably no 1. on the girls side, what team is the best (MTA u15 or u12?). According to National Soccer Rankings (shaky at best as a source) of course MN teams are not really on the radar as for national rankings consistently. Personally I found most MTA teams to be highly over rated in my experience in watching them play but then again most teams are. I appreciate when people are humble and relative about their status. When someone from MTA (parent or otherwise) praises their team but acknowledges that it is success on a relative scale I appreciate the comment more. It seems to me that at least MTA has done a nice job of establishing itself as a top destination in MN but for many reasons (geography, reputation, time, soccer environment, etc.) it can only rise so high nationally. I am not a soccer guru by experience tells me that an average team with just one or two dominant players can pretty much carry a team in MN all the way to u15 (especially on the girls side). The states lack of ability to put 11 elite level players on the field together in a single club (say what FC Dallas can) and the sheer lack of numbers will always make MN teams 'tier 2' nationally especially at the older ages. There may always be a single team at a single age group and gender to sneak into the top 20 but that will be rare. I also guess that at this stage the teams in MN don't get significantly stronger each year through new players at tryouts. I would be curious to see the 'turnover' at the top MN teams from year to year compared to the turnover at the top teams in other, more populous markets. In other words, did the state cup champs at each MTA team truly upgrade by adding 5-6 elite new players?
Anyway, MTA is a nice club and doing well especially by MN standards. Their time in the sun run will continue for a few more years but likely that will wane when someone else comes in(think Blackhawks and Keelix in the past). Eventually the true people that hold it together (ie MA) will move on and like most entities, the organization will go backwards. I am glad to see their success especially out of state but hope they (like all parents and teams) keep their success in perspective. It is much easier to listen to people when they are proud but humble. Good luck to all the MN teams, do us all proud!
SSM South - disagree a bit here. I think the traveling will be down for the younger ages perhaps and fewer out of town trips. Why take a U12 to U14 team to PDA or Vegas? Makes no sense in this economy.
I agree traveling tournaments out of the state will drop off. I believe teams will start to look at tournaments within driving distance over flying. Teams will continue to look at the MRL but if they are consistently being sent to Cincinnati over Rockford, that will drop off also. If this is the case , it may (key word may) help tournaments like Just for Girls and USA Cup improve their top flights.
I disagree with both of you, but that doesn't make your case any less viable. See, we can disagree without getting evil!
I think only time will tell on these types of questions. I will take this opportunity to caveat my opinion. I would like to add that my opinion only applies to teams of the quality which BELONG in these types of tournaments. I don't believe it makes any sense for a team to "experiment" and "see how they do" to travel to Disney, CASL, and the like. I think the lower tiers of competition will drop off....but that is only common sense taking over in tough economic times.
9:43 = another hater who is trying to put words in people's mouths. When did Bangu claim to discover or reinvent the soccer development wheel? On the contrary, progressive soccer minds like MA took what other clubs in the Midwest were doing and brought it to MN. Year-round training with older teams was already happening to some extent but no one was doing that with the younger age groups. MA did it with the current u17 Woodbury lot, again with the current MTA 15s, and now again with his 12s. The current 17s and 15s had tremendous success locally and other clubs and club directors picked it up. Midwest clubs like Eclipse, Magic, etc. picked it up from nationally successful clubs like Surf and the Texans, clubs in climates that lent to year round training without the cost we see here in MN. Those clubs likely picked up the idea from European model. The game has evolved everywhere in the US thanks to the work of many people like this. You spout ignorance to claim that anyone here in MN, besides maybe Harrison, has any thought that they are doing something new to the sport. MTA may eventually fade as did clubs like the Blackhawks, yet as the Blackhawks did back in the 90s, MTA now sets the bar or MN soccer development. As far as the economy, it is sure to have an impact on youth sports as families are forced into decisions about where to earmark their income. It will be interesting to see how MTA addresses this... if they can. If they cannot and there is no turn around in the economic climate, their club will probably suffer the repercussions.
9:43am, how about details on "ethical oversights"? Player recruiting? Providing a product that your club cannot match? And who is the vast majority that you speak of? You need to be more specific. Maybe you should have said "the vast majority of paid DOCs in a handful of clubs can't stand you..." Sounds like your vast majority is in fact a tremendously small minority of the MN soccer population. A minority that feels threatened because your club may lose talent, not be able to field a state championship team, and all of a sudden you're not able to look your fellow DOC peers in the eyes because your "lowly" club doesn't have any more Premier teams. And we all know that clubs are rated on the number of Premier teams they have right? I'm calling you out man. Step up and tell me that I'm wrong. This blog has been too silent. We need to kick up the hate. It's so productive.
anonymous 9:43, Folks like you continue to allude to issues such as "a few daily ethical oversites" (your words, spelling & claim) yet never seem to be able to share any specifics. We're waiting for you to post a specific or two to back up your assertion. Please share as we're waiting with great anticipation. Oh, and by the way genius, it's "oversights" not "oversites".
Sorry to all the true believers, the MTA formerly Bangu types CONSTANTLY attempt to say they "changed the soccer landscape" here in Mn. Sorry, the youth sports landscape has been shifting for years and soccer as all other youth sports would have changed here whether or not these "visionaries" (snicker now) had done so much to drag us out of the dark ages. This blog is an endless promotion for MTA perpetrated on the rest of us by a couple parents hoping to curry favor and get their little Mia on the blue team next year and the posts from directors easy to pick out too. Give it a rest, SSM will dominate and you'll blame the other clubs for that too.
SSM will not dominate as most parents realize there is not a "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" with regards to a pro career in soccer. True, SSM is a great prep school, but so are some of MN's public schools, ie. Edina, Wayzata and Minnetonka to name a few.
As for MTA, none of my kids play for that club. There has not been a need, thus far, as each of them play for a very well trained team at each of their respective clubs. Nothing MTA offers is beyond what each of them are getting at their respective clubs at their respective age groups, save for maybe a few more serious players at one of their age groups.
SSM is good for rural kids who would have to drive a great distance to find a compatible soccer atmosphere. Not all of SSM's coaches are great, however, and they get alot of turnover in their staff. Me, I can't afford it, nor would I part with my kids at 14-17 years old. That would be unthinkable considering my oldest heads off to college in nineteen months already.
As for MTA, they do serve a purpose and will continue to as long as most of our CC's don't recognize they need to develop a larger pool of young players. The ONLY problem I have with MTA is that they still call their lower level teams "elite", when in effect, we all know they are not. Marketing? You bet! If parents of the white or gray teams want to think there little Mia is "elite", that's fine with me.
MTA Girl's 18 White Elite? MTA Girl's 17 Blue Elite? MTA Girl's 17 White Elite? MTA Girl's 16 White Elite? MTA Girl's 15 White Elite? MTA Girl's 15 Gray Elite?
2:44 are you calling these teams "elite"? Unlike Tide, not one of these teams are new and improved.
2:59 - why do you care? Please help us all understand why what a soccer club that your child does not belong to chooses to call their teams angers and frustrates you so much? If this ticks you off, I'd hate to see how you react to real life. Seriously, please help up all understand?
3:17 first, I'm not 2:59 I would guess the irritation comes from the constant bleeting from the mta parents and staff about how great they are (this is all ok so far) then we listen to the rehashed bs my old club, or your club can't offer enough for your little star. Which is false I'll say it again false. If they are truly an elite program ths=ey should not have to endlessly talk of their eliteness.
3:21 - please show us all the "endless talk of their eliteness" on this blog (ones initiated by someone from MTA not a response to another post). Feel free to cut and paste. Please detail date and time so everyone can go back and confirm.
The 'little star' and 'bleeting parents' mentality knows no club boundaries and permeates all youth activites from soccer to science fairs. To attribute this to a single club, their staff and their supporters is ridiculous.
3:17-go ahead and call your "white" or "gray" player elite. What ever makes up for your own ineffectiveness in life. I prefer to call my kids good young soccer players who love the game--not the "name".
me thinks that if all the anons disappeared and the true names appeared, the true identities of the "haters" and "kool-aid lovers" wouldn't come as a big shock to many.
You know nothing about any of these kids or their parents and their 'effectiveness in life.'
Call your kids whatever you like. But to label someone you do not know 'ineffective in life' because a kid decided to play for a particular soccer club is downright sad.
Where have all you guys been hiding this last month?
Elite is a marketing term. People get angry because it works and one particular club has the advantage of the pro team in their corner, so their elite talk will likely work more. But are all you haters out there saying that you'd support the MTA program, or a program like it, if they didn't use the word elite? If they only had one team at an age group? That's the biggest load of BS on here. DOCs of clubs who THINK that from top to bottom they can field teams that compete effectively on the national scene are the ones who are pissed off and will NEVER support an elite system, delusional as they are as to thinking their club will be a magnet for talent. And magnet for talent is needed if anyone is to claim an elite team. St Croix had teams, Woodbury has a team, EP has a team, but none of those clubs are centrally located and can hope to draw metro-wide talent. Blackhawks are dead and gone. The one club that can hope to match what MTA can do is Mpls United - central location, winter facility, focus on development at the younger age groups. But it's an uphill battle for them. Just think if MTA and MU worked together...
Obviously open for debate. I attached a moniker should any choose to respond.
MU like MTA are too big to be a real development club. I would ask this question,why are there so many teams at MTA and MU for that matter.A popular product and good marketing is the reason so many players are there but what is the Clubs reason for having so many teams?I think its one or two things,Money and Control. If either Club was in it strictly for the Players they wouldnt have so many poor and average teams and would deal on the higher end of the talent pool.There are too many spoons in the bowl to feed!
2:28- I agree in principle with most of your post on SSM, but would change it to read like this to be totally accurate in my opinion.....
"SSM is good for SOME kids who HAVE THE RIGHT PERSONALITY TRAITS AND ARE NOT ABLE TO OBTAIN THE TRAINING ENVIRONMENT WHICH BEST SUITS THEM. Not all of SSM's coaches are great, however THERE IS NO CLUB IN THE COUNTRY WHO HAS A PERFECT COACHING STAFF TOP TO BOTTOM. SO IN THIS RESPECT, SSM FACES THE SAME CHALLENGES AS EVERY OTHER SPORTS ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD (SO THIS PART OF MY ARGUMENT CAN BE CONSIDERED IRRELEVANT). Me, I DON'T THINK I CAN afford it FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD, nor would I part with my kids at 14-17 years old. That would be unthinkable IN MY SITUATION considering my oldest heads off to college in nineteen months already."
4:43, what???!!! Because a club is big means it doesn't develop players? On the contrary, maybe big clubs try to develop elite players AND lower level players. Development doesn't just happen for the top players, right?
Having two or three teams for one group of players is the norm in sports. A player who can’t make the top team albeit HS Varsity or the premiere club team is better off staying connected to the organization or school team by playing on a lower team rather than going somewhere else. The player can prove themselves over time to make the higher team. Staying within the organization give the player the knowledge of what’s expected on and off the field in order to play on the higher team. Having only one team means players get cut more often and many players who excel in later years may not come back due to hard-feelings.
Big relates to a community type club not an elite set up. I think if a club is too big player development isnt as good.There are not enough top level coaches around for clubs of 40,50 plus teams and I think it would be difficult to really offer the highest quality at a club of 1000 players. I think its common sense that proves that. How many teams do Sockers,Magic have?
The Chicago Magic and Dallas Texans are very large clubs. All of their teams aren't state cup caliber but overall the clubs are elite clubs. For MTA to have the goal of achieving that type of success gives them something to strive for. Even they know they aren't at that level yet. For people to ridicule them for attempting to improve their players, club and level of soccer is narrow minded and petty. Let's all be realistic and take care of our own clubs' issues and let MTA worry about their own teams and concerns. Griping about opponenets in here is a waste of time.
IMO, some people miss the point of MTA. True, the organization strives to provide opportunities for top level players on their older Blue teams. These look to include surrounding talent with talent and putting the kids in front of college coaches. But for the majority of kids in the MTA programs the goal looks to be to help increase interest in the game by being tied in with the pro team.
Maybe less than 1% of MN players would actually fall into an "elite" category on a national scale but that doesn't mean someone shouldn't look out for the many more "elite" athletes relative to MN standards.
To non-MTA clubs I'd say provide what you provide to those who choose your opportunity. To MTA I'd say continue to provide what you provide regardless of opposition. You can't have the support of the majority when you look to service the minority - no matter what people claim here saying that they'd support you if you did this or if you did that - it's a crock. You will never have that support. If club directors and board members work to undermine the Thunder pro team efforts, then their true colors will shine as they are not in their positions for the good of the sport. Can't be said any more straight forward than that.
isn' it first and foremost all about development and love of the game? i always thought that is why "white" teams and C2 & C3 teams exist. go to the mysa site and look how many C2/C3 teams there are versus premier or even C1. the ratio has to be close to 3:1 of non-elite teams versus vs higher level teams.
9:18 that was good. I agree that all clubs should do what they deem appropriate for their club, this includes MTA. The gripe most have with MTA is their TACTICS and ARROGANCE in the claim s they make as the superior opportunity available to MN players regardless of the players current situation.
If you are correct that they will never be accepted because they represent only the "minority" of players. Then they should stop trying to have a club with often 3 or 4 teams at any given age group. Clearly their teams beyond the Blue teams are far from ELITE. In fact they are in many cases average at best.
If they would focus on one top team at each age group they would have a chance to elimainate their current reputation of a club who prays on the dreams of average or below average kids for purposes of cash flow to support their top Blue Teams. I know this will never happen however due to the need for revenue .
9:46 - i believe 9:18 made a good point with the "no matter what people claim here saying that they'd support you if you did this or did that". If they only had one team then everyone would complain about them recruiting all the best players.
What you are really saying is that every parent who's kid is not on the top team is wasting their money. Give us parents more credit as we will always "vote" with our feet and our checkbooks. For us, I am hoping that our child is having fun, loves her teammates, and improves enough to be able to contribute on her high school team this fall. We/she have no illusions of her playing in college, but it is the sport she loves and we want to support her. It is that simple. If we become unhappy then we will leave and find something we hope will be better. It is that simple.
9:56 Tell me they are not trying to rectuit the best players today.
I do agree that they can do whatever they see as the best formula for success for MTA. It's a free country. I will say however that the reason they are disliked by many is because of the tactics and arrogance they show towards other opportunities. Good for you that your daughter is having a solid experience, I think that is great. I doubt you meet the profile but I have seen so many parents/kids sucked into the dreams of grandure that are presented by some at Bangu/MTA regardless of that childs current opportunity. Once reality strikes and it becomes clear that the player is a low end player they are suddenly less important, recieve lower quality coachiing, and eventually leave the game. Would this have happenned at their community club? who knows? but for sure the cost would have been more affordable at the CC. For some the money isn't a huge issue, for others it is. As I said earlier. This is NOT me trying to change the MTA program, but rather to describe why so many dislike the MTA program. It is a free country. Do whatever you think is best for your daughter.
10:27 I've seen MTA white players treat their H.S. teammates as though they were inferior players. I've also (on that same H.S. team) seen MTA Blue players treat their H. S. teammates as equals. Who am I to analyze, but it seems to me that deep down many of the White players have some type of complex. Maybe it has to do with getting clobbered in Indy or the MRL each yuear, both places those teams have no business playing at.
Elk River youth soccer coach on trial for sexual assault on one of his female players. Middle age coach takes advantage of young girl.
Be aware of coaches who socialize too much with their young players. Apparently the ER coach selected his victim carefully. This guy was a perv in coaches clothing.
"Who am I to analyze" (but I will anyway) the "deep down type of complex" of other people.
Best to analyze what is deep down inside yourself and leave the decision about where another person's child plays or the tournaments they go to up to that parent or group of parents.
10:30 it's 10:27. I swear it is not personal My kids are on very good teams, are getting very good coaching and are having an overall great soccer experience. I have just witnessed other kids , some of them friends of my kids, given the "hard sell" most didn't bite, some did and now at least a few of them are out of the sport all together. Maybe they would have been out if they had stayed nobody knows for sure. I have two playing competitive and one was recruited respectfully by Bangu when she attended a "footskills" camp a few years ago. As I indicated "dreams of grandure that are presented by some at Bangu/MTA" Key word is SOME. I know all clubs have an occasional screwball parent or coach who goes over the line, but MTA seems to have a more passionate following (parent and coaches) that seems to cross the line more than most clubs. I have been involved as a parent and coach for 10 seasons now (god am I getting old)and have seen more conflict with Bangu/MTA than any other clubs combined. My experiences may not be reflective of the entire organization as a matter of fact I know that they are not. I have had several very respectful discussions and correspondences with Bangu/MTA coaches over the years. Again...I am not saying they need to change anything but am simply pointing out why that group is often disliked.
Showcase events for the oldest age groups don't make a lot of sense as the players have already verballed or committed.Seems to me your spending a lot of money for nothing.Why do clubs do it?
"10 seasons now (god am I getting old)and have seen more conflict with Bangu/MTA than any other clubs combined"
If this isn't a personal attack, than I don't know what is.
I also coached for about 6 years and my experience was of the 3 teams who seemed to always be a pain year after year - none of them were Bangu. I won't name the 3 because that would be a personal attack.
I always love it when people go on a somewhat "public" forum to criticize people and organizations that they themselves have no direct connection to. I'd hate to see what people would say if it was personal.
I would assume a team would go to a showcase because not everyone on the team has committed or verbaled. So often people forget about the players other than the top 2-4. Many of the players 5-18 are still looking for the opportunity to put themselves in front of college coaches.
or as a team to play some solid competition (hopefully) and continue to develop and get better. not much fun to practice from november up until state cup with only a few scrimmages sprinkled in there.
SSmurf (if you are lurking)- Good showing by your girls last night from what I understand. I was not there, but reports say that they were much more organized and gave SSM a scare. Congrats on the good showing. Wish I could have been there!
It was a better showing from us still have a lot of work to do but a step in the right direction. First half we did well than we ran out of gas and SSM deserved the win. If I do not see you feb 1 I hope to see you at the March tournament, did your daughter play center D with the head gear (remeber she had a head injury this fall)
From Top Drawer: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/component/option,com_topdrawer/Itemid,251/nid,7584/
ST. LOUIS – Two of the brightest lights in American soccer coaching spoke very plainly here Thursday about the need to reform player development in Women's soccer.
North Carolina head coach Anson Dorrance and Boston Breakers and former U.S. WNT coach Tony DiCicco both called for USSF to create a system along the lines of the Developmental Academy currently in place on the boys side. The remarks were made at the NSCAA Convention.
"Success can be misleading," said the notes on Dorrance's overhead slide. "Make no mistake, we are losing ground to the rest of the world."
Anson Dorrance"Our players aren't technical enough," DiCicco said, even as he discussed the world championship earned last month by the U.S. U20 WNT he was coaching in Chile. "Youth soccer is a big business and if you win more it brings dollars to your club, but there are too many things we don't do well enough if we want to keep winning."
The two coaches said they had discussed the issues Wednesday night with USSF President Sunil Gulati and Secretary-General Dan Flynn, but emphasized the comments were there own, and not those of the Federation. It is believed USSF is contemplating the establishment of a Girls Academy system similar to that in place on the boys side.
Dorrance, winner of 20 national titles at North Carolina, said an Academy League of approximately 40 teams would be welcome, with a defined season calendar that would limit matches per season to somewhere around 40. He called for such an Academy to feature targeted training opportunities for teams in conjunction with Women's Professional Soccer.
Other possibilities include regional and sub-regional player for younger age groups, with ODP continuing to exist outside the Academy.
Dorrance also said it would be wise to avoid making "too many changes right out of the gate" and added that high school would be the exception to the rule when it came to the forbidding of dual rostering. He also said USSF would have to have an enforcement mechanism to promote and relegate clubs based on their development performance every two or three years.
DiCicco, winner of the 1999 World Cup with the Women's National Team, said the days where U.S. squads can use high pressure tactics as an equalizer against the rest of the world are coming to an end as nations like Japan continue to improve their technical and tactical prowess. He also scored the American player for not "seeing the game" well enough, noting "that is our fault as coaches." He reserved his harshest criticism for the technical side.
"We do not receive the ball well. We can't play at the speed needed if we have to take that much time to receive and turn," he said. "The German and Chinese player will be moving away from traffic with the ball while we're still battling for possession. We don't drive the ball well and we don't head the ball well enough. We need to start improving our technique from the younger ages."
Dorrance said he hopes the NSCAA Convention will be a prime venue for discussion and evaluation of any such move toward a national academy.
10s Dad, are you really focused on training to compete with elite Brazilian and German players? How many Minnesota girls will make it to that level? Is Anson Dorrance concerned about the enjoyment Minnesota girls have playing soccer? Isn't it about competing and having fun for 99% of the soccer players out there? That means keeping track of wins and getting that plastic award, not more and more training.
Having said that, ODP is a complete failure for both camps: it is neither fun nor an effective means of identifying or training elite players.
While it sometimes is implicitly frowned up as a personality characteristic in our society, particularly among young ladies, there's no question that ambition is an important quality for a successful athlete.
You simply can't succeed at the highest levels without wanting to.
It's early in the career of 13-year old Minnesota Thunder Academy forward Lauren Miller, but she's showing the kind of drive and ambition, not to mention ability, that is typically found in players who make it to the highest levels.
Lauren Miller keeps pushing herself to be the best.
"She's very competitive. She always wants to come in first," is how her mother, Allyson, describes Lauren's drive. "She always wants to have the team do well."
Miller plays two years up the Thunder U15 club team coached by Mark Cook, and a year up with the Region II ODP 94s. Cook is very high on her potential.
"I first saw her at 11 and it was hard to believe she was 11, playing with the U13s," Cook said. "She had such an ability and knowledge of the game, you could tell she would be a special player. I started working personally with her last year and even in the last year I've seen a huge change in her work ethic. She's getting a lot stronger and she's always been special technically, with good vision. Now she's matured mentally and physically and is taking it to the next level."
Lauren herself leaves little doubt as to just how much she wants to make it big.
"For me personally it's mostly about skill and the mental side," she said when asked about the areas that separate top players from the pack. "It comes down to how much do you want to score, and how much do you want to contribute to the game. And you need skill to finish and to create chances."
Lauren said she will train either with her team or a personal trainer 3-4 times per week, and adds that she always has a ball at her feet when at home.
"Soccer is just basically my life," she said.
Cook said Lauren is becoming a more complete team player on a daily basis.
"That's really our focus," he said. "We know how powerful an individual player she can be. We're talking with her this year about making her teammates better, about how she can create opportunities for the team."
As Lauren continues to take the training and instruction to heart, Cook sees nothing but positives ahead.
"If she continues to develop the way she has, even just in last year where she has put in a lot of time to develop physically, and her work ethic keeps growing, the sky is the limit to be honest," Cook said. "She already has great technical ability and she's creative. Her work ethic was really the thing and even in the last year we've seen a complete change in her mentality. I've had some kids with national teams come back and think they can coast, but she's been working even harder."
Lauren lists making a youth national team at the Nike Friendlies this summer as a short-term goal.
"I want to keep improving and keep moving up through ODP and making teams," she said. "I want to push myself to the highest level."
Congrats to Lauren and her family for this wonderful recognition.
It's interesting to hear Dorrance the Father of Bootball talking about technical skills.Here in MN it's all bootball,Coaches don't know how to use a player with the skills Dorrance is talking about.
Copy the boys program...r u nuts.It's the women who have done all the winning for the last 20 years. The men are chumps.
None of the cc's and or clubs do a good job teaching technique/skills.Here in MN it's all bootball even at the college level.
Well then Mr. Plumber, If your dd is playing rec, this piece from Coach Anson and Tony isnt geared towards you, simple as that!! I do not think either one of those coaches are recruiting rec players. And for the remark about how many MN players are ever going to reach that level? We all know of a Keeper from MN that has been to that level, and another keeper that is just now coming up thru the ranks that will be there one day. I know of a whole team of MN girls that played with the Lightning last summer that played against internationals that have been drafted into the WPS. Does that count?
Why does this piece mean to you that its all about playing against internationals?? Why cant it mean getting better to play at the U, or any college for that matter??
And as for ODP, that is funny, didnt the U20s just win the WC and the 17s were runners up?? Most if not all players coming thru the ODP ranks?? Why dont you pack your bags and fly either to FL or CA for the upcoming Natl Camps and count how many of these girls have come up thru the ranks of ODP.
Joe, stick with cleaning the poopers and you will go far in life.
1:48..I thought the same thing, Anson saying we need more tact players. Your right, he teaches boot ball with non-fifa sub rules.
I would really like to see the NCAA go to FIFA rules regarding only 3 subs per game instead of line changes like Hockey. But IM sure that would change the amount of scholarships the schools would be able to hand out then??
SS- She was playing center D with the headgear. I am glad to see that the game gave both sides the ability to work on things and to find areas of improvement needed. After all, that really is what these games are about. Not sure about the game on Feb 1.....I am supposed to be in India on business (not looking forward to that).
Joe the Plumber- I think that it is safe to assume that 10s Dad IS concerned with training to compete with Elite Brazilian and German players. His daughter was one of the players called up for duty with the U20 Nats. She has already played against the German National team a while back with the U17s (I think) at the Nike Friendlies. You couold have chosen to direct that comment at probably 99.98% of the people on this blog.....but the shoe fits with #10.
Joe - why is ODP a failure? Usually most folks who say ODP is a failure usually have had a child who did not attain the achievement level that they hoped for. Is it perfect - far from it. Much like work, school, club teams, etc... it is prone to subjectivity, personal preferences, politics, etc.... If anyone (Joe included) has a better way to identify the top talent at the state level which then is assembled at the regional level to select a regional team which is then assembled at the national level to select national teams I would be all ears.
I've watched the Lightning play three games last year and the only player that I saw who was a stud was Caroline Smith. None of the other players caould even carry her water bottle.Lots of average players. Get drafted in the new womens league....forget it.
2010 TOP 100 MEN: http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/index.php 67. Patrick Donyen Crystal, (MN) Plymouth Super Eagles Forward 69. Paul Yonga Brooklyn Park, (MN) Arsenal Super Eagles Defender
Interesting article on LM. Lots can happen (injuries, attitude) but right now she is the best player (for age) in the state by a wide margin from U13-18.
Sessions is a great example showing that kids from Minnesota can succeed if they're exposed to excellent training at a young age and continue their training and development under top level coaches. This is encouraging for all kids in Minnesota devoted to the game of soccer. Congrats!
Hmmmm.... I think there are many other kids who have "succeeded". Not sure what the definition of that is. They have come from a wide variety of backgrounds. They have had several different coaches. They have gone to many different colleges and had good careers there.
anon 11:58, I suspect miac fan means succeed at a very high level. Go to national camp, make top 100 lists etc. Many here claim from time to time that Minnesota doesn't have that kind of talent, but we're learning otherwise.
232 I think we need to wait a few years to see how players do in college to judge that about any of them. ODP has many flaws in their selection process and the top 100 lists simply parrot the ODP lists and exist solely to generate interest and revenue for the publications that put them out. It may well be that these players go on to show themselves to be very good players at the next level, but wait and see if it happens. The best player MN has ever produced never made a regional team or top anything list. DISCLAIMER: This post was a general statement. It was not directed at any specific player. No parents and coaches need to respond that their player is the best.
The question was who was the best player MN ever produced, not best field player.
And yes, you can compare GK to field players; at least as well as you can compare a defender to a forward. You make a comparison based upon the highest level they achieved.
I believe that starting keeper on a world cup championship team trumps goal scoring stud for a D1 soccer program.
No disrespect....somebody mentioned this previously. Minn is not a soccer state nor is the U.S. a soccer country. Probably never will be. Football,basketball,baseball,hockey all rank ahead of soccer. What does the rest of the world have?
For men, the U.S. is not a soccer country. For women, it is THE sport. Where else can a woman play a sport where she gets to be physical without being chastised by society?
What you are meaning to say is that the best male athletes in this country are QB's, point Guards and shortstops or pitchers. The best female athletes in this country are soccer players, period. Frankly, if my daughters were boys, they'd probably be playing football, hockey and or baseball.
1153 you cannot be serious. Ever hear of basketball? Go to a high level game sometime and you won't think the best female athletes play soccer. Hockey is pulling even also at least around here.
I heard thhe MTA boys brought the germans with and the two girls dominated play. This could be huge for Mn soccer getting big time talent like that to come to train in an elite club. How will the other clubs respond?
It backfired because the girls were very impressed with SSM and now are seriously considering going to school there. They do have one condition though, they want to train and play in the boys program. May be a dealbreaker.
Does anyone know if they still plan to have u13/14 brackets at the Las Vegas College Showcase in mid-March? According to the site it only show u15-u19 listed. I know many MTA teams have gone in the past at that age group. Gotsoccer seems to think so but nothing seems to indicate it on the site. Any MTA u13/14 teams receive notice?
Vegas showcase has been losing some of its luster over the year. Many juniors have already committed and it is not a very well run tournament plus very $$$$.
It doesn't matter about U17 this year. All the talent will be at MTA for US Development Academy next year as 18s. No other club will be able to offer these players anything similar. Hope all other teams do this state and our talent a service by doing their best to develop the 17s this year, then we all look for our USSDA team to be able to compete. Will they be able to? No idea...
Other than CS what other U-17 MN(junior) has committed? As for current MTA 17's (next year's MTA 18's being the place to be), they are just plain weak. The MTA 17's have absolutely no speed and will again get blasted in the MRL First Division. Why would anyone go there when you've got Woodbury and to a lesser extent PSA?
That MTA 12 team (Abboud's dream team) demolishes everyone in MN at their age group and is highly competitive playing u13. The fact that they lost in the semis in a small tournament at their own age group should be a reminder to keep MN soccer in perspective. Again it is a great team and they should be proud of their results but lets just remember how far MN soccer still has to go. These tournaments are great to keep perspective and hopefully it will challenge them to train harder.
Anonymous said... Other than CS what other U-17 MN(junior) has committed? As for current MTA 17's (next year's MTA 18's being the place to be), they are just plain weak. The MTA 17's have absolutely no speed and will again get blasted in the MRL First Division. Why would anyone go there when you've got Woodbury and to a lesser extent PSA?
This just goes to show you, its ALL about winning. Maybe players will want to go there for training and development??
2:52 My kid plays for a different club at a different age group. So I have no personal agenda here. I disagree completely that the tournament the MTA 12's played in is a "small tournament". The number of teams is less important than the ability of the teams. This AZ tournament is highly rated and the teams are from very respectable clubs. A semi-final showing is very good. Curious to learn what part of the game MTA was weaker at, skills, speed, depth etc. Congrats to the MTA girls.
I'm sure it will be on the road to regionals site. He already has started the recaps. As for small tournament, it's not Disney, nor Vegas, but when our young teams can face So Cal or Texas teams and hold their own at 12, that's something regardless of how the haters hate on here. I think MTAs 13s and Revs 13s both travel to tough events next month. Other indicators of where we stand in terms of girls development. Now the boys are a different story...
It doesn't matter about U17 this year. All the talent will be at MTA for US Development Academy next year as 18s. No other club will be able to offer these players anything similar. Hope all other teams do this state and our talent a service by doing their best to develop the 17s this year, then we all look for our USSDA team to be able to compete. Will they be able to? No idea...
throwing the towel in already? After promoting "give us the best players"all year and "the talent is spread too thin"what did MTA manage to acheive by putting together a u17 team?they further thinned the talent pool,how ironic. MTA should of done one of two things at 17 boys:1}hired a currenr 17s coach who could of brought in an established solid group of the better players in his squad,then added 6 to 10 top players to that core.That would of brought stability and also pooled some good talent together.2}they should of looked at their roster/tryouts and said"you know what,its too late for 17s,lets concentrate on younger groups instead of thinning out this group. Sadly they did none of those which only proves that they really are not that smart or that concerned about the players. They were a bit too arrogant in the way they went about the whole thing,lets see how great their Coaching staff is now
the u12 blues that just played in AZ over the past couple days should not be ripped on. judge them for the players they are instead of the name on the front of the jersey
the MTA u12 blues that just played in AZ over the past couple days should not be ripped on. judge them for the players they are instead of the name on the front of the jersey
why take u12s to Az. to play Soccer,that is very very sad and whoever condones it as a coach is a moron.They could of trained instead,u12s,my gosh,what a joke!
Anonymous said... It doesn't matter about U17 this year. All the talent will be at MTA for US Development Academy next year as 18s. No other club will be able to offer these players anything similar. Hope all other teams do this state and our talent a service by doing their best to develop the 17s this year, then we all look for our USSDA team to be able to compete. Will they be able to? No idea...
throwing the towel in already? After promoting "give us the best players"all year and "the talent is spread too thin"what did MTA manage to acheive by putting together a u17 team?they further thinned the talent pool,how ironic. MTA should of done one of two things at 17 boys:1}hired a currenr 17s coach who could of brought in an established solid group of the better players in his squad,then added 6 to 10 top players to that core.That would of brought stability and also pooled some good talent together.2}they should of looked at their roster/tryouts and said"you know what,its too late for 17s,lets concentrate on younger groups instead of thinning out this group. Sadly they did none of those which only proves that they really are not that smart or that concerned about the players. They were a bit too arrogant in the way they went about the whole thing,lets see how great their Coaching staff is now
19/1/09 5:27 PM
--------------------------- Jeez, all of this frustration over a friendly in Jan. Just let the kids play. Or, maybe Shattuck should get a bit more credit, ever think about that??
yeah,Shattuck should get all the credit,they train everyday,prepare for a weekend game at the home field against teams that are not even in season,on top of that they recruit from all over. Yeah,lots of credit due there!
7:55 - some clubs, families, and players choose to test their abilities in the winter months in order to improve and create soccer memories. You obviously choose not to and would rather spend time creating memories by blogging and ripping on people who do. Tell me, who is the real joker? People like you will continue to live in the dark ages of youth soccer while others forge ahead and break new ground. I'm sure there was no family time down there either. Just a crazy coach and his 18 players, right?
I have to agree with 10:07. Where is the downside to the anon post of 8:52? I guess the SSM kids should sit in thier dorm rooms at night eating Cheetos (should it be crunchy of puffs?) instead of training and playing games on weekends?
Obviously, the MTA group saw value in coming in to play a game.....or they wouldn't have done it?
As far as the MN girls-- congrats to all who are getting some print/attention. I don't care WHAT CLUB you play for-- that is positive! Congrats to them.
Anyone coming to SSM this weekend with the MN ODP teams? I am curious to know how they have broken them up (listed on our schedule as MN "1" ODP and MN "2" ODP. Also, Wisconsin ODP coming in for games. The Wisco team is the 93s.....what is MN bringing?
SSMSC I am not sure being mentioned on a blog that has maybe 50-75 active readers qualifies as print/attention. More like bragging by parents and coaches and ripping by rivals. Bad enough about 17 year olds. About 12 year olds? 1019 is correct. Pathetic.
It was said earlier, The MTA 12's have sone very well against MN competition, If they have the financial means to go out of state to test themselves against top talent from another region(a historically strong region) why not? especially when they can mix in a nice winter getaway in Jan. Hmm? Arizona in Jan 75 degrees and sunny or 15-20 degrees in MN. I like the idea of AZ.
I do agree that it realistically only makes sense for very high level teams to go to these top out of state tournaments as other less accomplished teams can be adequately challenged locally. unless of course they too are looking for a winter break from the MN cold.
So what developmental value was gained by taking these U12 kids to AZ? Is it worth the money or should the money spent better allocated by dome rental in MN and playing the area U13 team? Was development the reason for the trip or something else - club publicity?
It's all about cache' (sp) the mta crowd uses this as a way to look like what they do is much better than any other club, parents buy into it and round and round it goes.
just curious, maybe both. Team success at events like this help get that team accepted into additional high level events.
IMO, people need to leave off the hate. If people can't justify or have no interest in travel like this, stay at your cc. Stars traveled at 12, MA took Inferno to the President's Day tournament in AZ when they were 12, and looks like he took the MTA 15s to Jefferson Cup at 12 (according to r2r). Bit of a trend here with top MN teams, don't you think
i think it is great that MTA (MA) took his u12 team to AZ. that is an excellent team that has crushed everyone in its age group here in MN. they should seek out additional challenges just like all top tier teams. the kids will remember that experience as they don't care about the stupid politics and rantings of parents and the folks on sites like this. in my original post, all i was saying was that whenever parents brag about how great their teams are against Mn teams (ie state cup), just have some humility and perspective across a broader scale. at the current time, being great in Mn is like being the top JV team, it is a great accomplishment for the kids and they shouldn't be 'denounced' for beating who they are assigned to play. over time, hopefully MN (and Region 2) will catch up to other regions so that our best teams are truly national best teams. to all teams (and bragging parents) a little humility mixed with your bravado would be nice
Since the 93 MN ODP team has a pool group of 28 players, the coaches will announce the teams when the players arrive at the dome on Saturday. This will allow for more playing time for each player, as they are still trying to earn a spot on the team that goes to nationals in March.
Thanks for the info 9:45. I know that Saturday and Sunday will be a great day to say hi to some friends (that I don't get to see much)-- but would welcome any introductions and would like to be able to show that I truly don't have horns. If going to be there, speak up and we can make sure to get together to atleast say hi.
Agreed 9:30, I got that sense from previous posts. Nothing like a little name calling though to get this blog rolling. 9:04, you are correct. To others, why don't you email MA and ask his rational. Or wait for his comments on his blog. Or are you hoping someone will paste them on here to be ripped apart?
Again - so its great they went to AZ, what "developmental" value was gained? If they crush every team at their age group, play up or play the boys. If development is the goal at these non-college value ages how does this trip help? Anyone? Not a rip on anyone cc or club because some are heading that way (younger ages traveling longer distances). I have ready many articles in the last few years about too little practices and too many games.
12 players, 20 parents say 35 people x $400 airfare. $14,000, Say 15 rooms 2 nights $3000. How many scrimmages against 13's or boys teams or training would that buy with the benefit of raising the level of other Mn teams, that is a big part of that club's mission isn't it?
10:29 worry about your own checkbook, Look at all of the gain your team can achieve because you are a more efficient money manager. THEY made a CHOICE to attend, THEY can determine if they recieved good VALUE for THEIR money. Why do you care? Mind your own business. By the way, I do NOT have a kid playing for MTA, and have no desire to, I tend to agree that I personally wouldn't have interest in spending the dollars to attend this type of tournament at this age but last I checked this is a free country where people can CHOOSE how to spend their dollars. Thank You MTA 12's for your attempt to stimulate the economy with your spending habits :)
10:29-First, I'm not a Thunder parent. Is it irrational to take a U-12 team to AZ? Maybe. If it was my child the biggest concern I would have would be to ask whether emotionally a 12 year old can hold up physhologically for the next five to six years now that the expectation of "showcasing" has begun. Take a kid on a trip like that at U-12, those parents had better have good parenting skills to keep their kids heads screwed on straight. As far as criticising MTA for moving a group along rather quickly, it's none of our business what those parents decision is. It does sound like you're a bit jealous though!
Everyone not at mta is a jealous hater. When their "recruiters" stand in the parking lot waiting for parents like ghouls to tell parents their kids present club is not good, they are bettering soccer along the lines of Dr. Jonas Salk finding a polio vaccine?
Nothing like something as simple as a young team traveling to a tournament to get the same folks riled up out there.......or does it have more to do with that team being from MTA.....?
I would like everyone on both sides of the hate MTA/not hate MTA to try and answer the questions I have asked. Seems very easy to answer if you believe in it or not. Check my posts again if you have forgotten. Anyone, SSM South, MA, SSmurf, #10s Dad?
If 12 is too young, what is the "correct" age to attend an out of state, high profile tournament? Just curious, Please assumme the team is a top 5 team in MN when you answer. Does it matter if it is a long drive or a fly in tournament?
Can you imagine the uproar there would have been on soccer blogs many years ago when the Bangu Stars and Woodbury Inferno began this practice of traveling at young ages? By now you would think people would be accustomed to it.
1053, it is stupid MYSA policy upheld by possessive people like you that prohibits contact with kids except for a few day window. What else do you expect recruiters to do? They are following policy that you support in fear. Worry about developing your own programs and retaining kids with quality rather than limiting the info they receive about other opportunities.
You want MA's thoughts you can find them on roadtoregionals.com in a few days I'm sure.
12:51, Mn has way less restrictive recruiting rules than our neighboring states, MYSA rules are submitted and voted on by the member clubs so if you don't like them, get off the blog and go advocate for the changes you desire. as to reading rtr if I wanted to read self aggrandizing drivel I would. Thanks none the less for the tip.
would like everyone on both sides of the hate MTA/not hate MTA to try and answer the questions I have asked. Seems very easy to answer if you believe in it or not. Check my posts again if you have forgotten. Anyone, SSM South, MA, SSmurf, #10s Dad?
Well since you do not end your post with a name to be known for, I have NO clue what posts are yours or what post you take credit for??
yeah,Shattuck should get all the credit,they train everyday,prepare for a weekend game at the home field against teams that are not even in season,on top of that they recruit from all over. 8:52
8:52..training every day, more training sessions than games..Sounds like a great system to be able to call a true "Devolpement Academy Program" team. Isnt this the system that the powers that be want all DAP clubs and teams to do??
As for Recruiting, when MTA gets into the DAP, the kids and families will flock to the club. I know of players in Iowa that play for the Chicago Fire DAP, the KC Wiz DAP, players that do not live close to these DAP's are now starting to move to get involved with the DAP clubs. The landscape is changing. Maybe not tomorrow or next yr, but it will happen. The US Soccer is also thinking adding girls to the DAP format. And if MTA and SSM are the only 2 clubs in MN that are allowed to be in the DAP, where do you think the kids will try to attend?? DAP is the next best thing to be recruited by Natl Coaches, College Coaches, and even PDL, A-Leagues and MLS and hopefully WPS. Its not a league for everyone, and that is fine, but why cry a river if your not involved. The DAP system is a expensive league, but maybe you wont have to go to the CASL, Disney, Vegas's all with in months of each other?? It is changing, and for those that cry about ODP, well, here is the change, and its coming full speed.
hey 1:22, you're a complete idiot. tell me how a change to a recruiting can ever hope to pass in MYSA when the majority of clubs are afraid of the recruiting and loss of players? you don't like r2r, don't read it. I think the poster above is referring people there who question MA's motives.
fyi the u12 girls blue MTA played my daughter who is a u14 so yes they have played two years up GIRLS and BOYS. they are a great team; if arizona is where they need to go to get competition then let it be.
Everyone just settle down. Obama was sworn in today.....everything was officially going in the "right direction" as of about noon today. All of your problems are going to be solved, so why worry about youth soccer?
Seriously though....the anon wants an answer to his/her questions. Fine. My thoughs are that it has no bearing on you, me, 10s Dad, SSmurf, Thomas, BanguMom, or anyone else. It is none of my business, so I have no opinion. If it were my kid, then maybe I'd ask some questions. BUT- when my kid becomes part of a TEAM....and that TEAM chooses to travel to a tournament, my player has a RESPONSIBILITY to take part. If I don't agree with the tournament selections or ANY other policy, then I'll vote with my feet and checkbook the following year. Simple as that. I can't believe this is even being discussed....
SSM - still missing the point (along with evreyone else it appears). I would like options on how this type of travel helps developmentally. An easy question - or so I thought.
umm maybe testing their skils against people that are just as good enough better maybe? playing teams that are better than you , makes you learn and want to work harder to be a better team. MTA lost in the finals against dallas texans they are a lot better and really tested the girls skills for once i heard? so i think that helps them develop.
if you cant find teams to play to help you develop , go elsewhere.
Don't forget about seeing teams that you aren't used to seeing, different types of play, different coaching styles. I know that 10s dad will disagree with me....but I don't see a problem with traveling this far. You have to "make a name" for yourself sometime. If you don't, you will struggle to get into the higher divisions of real-deal Showcase tournaments later. They are U12-- you have to have a reputation/record against tough competition before U15. I say do one, maybe two, of these types of tournaments a year (BUT ONLY IF YOU CAN BE COMPETITIVE).
they are extremley gifted U12 girls, their parents are willing to put the time and money, after being scouted by MTA. There is a reason why they got put on this team. because the game of soccer is their passion, their gift, their life. not because its what the parents what it to be, its becuase how they want it to be.
720, Let's not get out of control now. Your post was a bit over the top. At 11 years old, very few of these kids would consider soccer thier "life". I would also predict that possibly as many as 30% of them will not be playing at U17 and above.
This is not to detract from the team, the kids, or anything. I get that the parents are just being supportive of what thier kids want to do right now. Just remember, things change, teams change, lives change-- support them now but be prepared to let it go when they want to.
7:20 Are you saying a U12 "child" has told their parents that soccer is their "life". I doubt it highly, in 4 years I would bet 50% of these kids will not be playing soccer.
642 which team are you speaking of? The U12 team lost in the semis 3-1 to Solar. They did not play the Texans in the finals. Was there another team in action?
If my eleven or twelve year old told me that soccer, a game, was their life, I would feel the need as a parent to sit them down for a long talk.
I would tell them that no matter how good they are and how much time they put into soccer, it is a 99.999% certainty that they would be done with the game when they were 22 - 23 years old, with at least 2/3 of their lifetime remaining.
What do you do when your "life" is over at 22?
I would then feel a serious obligation to expand their world. I would take them to museums, foreign countries, camping, whatever it took to make them realize the many splendors of this world.
my 12 year old daughter and her friends on her team told me soccer was their lives now they are all seniors on highschool soccer teams that went to state also all 5 of them have either full ride or some sort of scholarship to college for soccer?
so, its not crazy. just some kids are born that way. when they find their knack at a young age and really dedicate their life to it, the sport of soccer is what they base their life on.
I also have seen then u12 MTA blue girls play, they have the same passion if not more......
9:12- I'd like to think I'm raising my kids the right way, at least I hope I am, but you're saying other people indulge in "bad parenting"!!!!! Who in ---- do you think YOU are. And no, my kids don't play for MTA, but I do recognize when someone is terribly jealous. You don't belong on this forum, but on "the couch". Nutcase!
Nothing to be jealous of, so that's kind of weird conclusion.
Actually, my daughter does play for MTA, but that doesn't mean that soccer is her life.
Her life is her family, her education, her community, and her spirituality, but not soccer.
All of those things will stay with her long past her soccer career, whether she is fortunate to play until she is 30 or unfortunate enough to be injured at 18.
So, I'm a nutcase? Because I accuse parents who do not provide perspective for their children of being bad parents? Well, then I'm a nutcase. So be it.
I wonder, though, what I should tell my therapist on the couch. That I see more to life than soccer?
I might recommend that you read "Chalked Up" by former world champion gymnast Jennifer Sey. You will read about how gymnastics was her life, you will read about how she reached the ultimate level, world champion, by the time she was 17, and you will read about the years of depression she faced after her "life" was over.
Oh yeah, you will also read about how her mom encouraged her single minded devotion to her sport and how that contributed to her depression.
I do agree with you that I don't belong on this forum. When having perspective is insane, I am clearly in the wrong place.
my daughters life is based around soccer, wow im such a bad MTA parent. shame on me for giving my daughter what she told me she wants.... maybe your "well rounded" daughter is different?
wow, its so sad how some parents get so worked up over MTA like if it was tc fire, woodbury, or something similar to them this would all be a different story.
me thinks what is sadder is that there are too many posts that criticize what others do when it has absolutely no impact, effect, or should be of no concern to the person who is blogging........
Nothing stirs threads like this more than others calling others idiots and bashing choices. I agree, to each their own. It would be nice if this blog made people sign in so at least there would be a chance of real debate.
I disagree with a team of any sport traveling via plane at U12 to play any sport. Im not blamming the parents, but the leader(s) of this group, the coach and club. U-12? Come on.
What do you do when these U12s are U16 and they go, hey, we have been here, done that, big deal. Its just another trip. Its not burn out, but in a way it is, its over kill.
I can remember when we were at this age and ALL the parents were all gun-ho, and we wanted to travel but our coach at the time shot it down traveling more than 2 states out via plane. Today, I understand. We didnt start traveling big time till U15 with Eclipse. At U12, the team needs to be learning how to play the game. There are more than enough teams that can give any u12 team a good game. Heck, call some teams in surrounding states and set up some friendlies. Travel down to Des Moines and do a Futsol tournament in the winter, Iowa has tournaments in the new ISU building all winter, in Iowa City inside the the Hawks dome, its a boarding state. Go over to Brookfield,WI, they have a really nice indoor with 3 fields that holds tournaments all thru out the winter. Again, the parents im sure are gun-ho, however its the coach that should be the leader since he/she has been in this racket for some time and SHOULD know not to abuse his/her authority. I bet that some of these u12 players wont even be on the same team in 5 yrs from now anyway.
10's Dad, nice post which is why there CAN BE two sides to this debate. Please see the attached link so you can understand where the coach is coming from. Not saying either side is right or wrong, I just get the sense you are open to seeing both sides. You may completely disagree, but I also sense you will respect his thoughts.
10's dad has my vote for post of the year, well said if our true goal is development, your thoughts are true to that goal. Too much of our sport is prdicated on the ego needs of a few coaches and too many parents.
10s Dad, do you agree that MTA's goal is to produce teams that compete at regional and national events? If so, I think that "been there, done that" is a good thing at 16 as that leads to comfort in new surroundings that a team who is making their first plane trip won't feel.
Moreover, to your point about some of these players not even being with the MTA 12s in 5 years. Don't you think these players are getting a great soccer opportunity at a point in their careers when the CAN travel and compete? The experience is much more than just soccer. I would think you'd see that as I'm sure you're not spending $35,000 a year just for a sport.
943, you don't think playing against tough competition in January constitutes a development opportunity? You're joking, right? Sometimes coaches with so-called egos get the most from the kids they work with. They usually have an ego for a reason and people usually think they have an ego for the same reason - because they are successful and produce winners in soccer and in life.
11:13 Of course MTA and most other Super Clubs goal is to compete on a Natl level. Why do you think they are trying to get into the DAP? I disagree with you about 16 yr olds NOT feeling the excitment, the will to play hard, the excitment to play in front of scouts, I can go on and on with this subject. Let me ask you something, This is kinda way out there, but, Does a Sr in College ever get that comfort level when playing in the final four? I think NOT? Why the hurry?? There is NOTHING there for a 12 yr old that isnt there for a 15 yr old is all IM saying. At least 15 yr olds play 11v11 on a full size field.
The reason I said that about some players not being with the team in 5 yrs, sure, I stand by that. It happens to most teams. Look at the Eclipse team that won the Natl Championship in 2006, about 6 girls on that team are either not with Eclipse or even playing soccer anymore. Same thing at Shattuck, we have lost players. Didnt MTA loose a player to Woodbury? It happens. Sure, you can travel at U12, but by plane to a completely different region?? Like I said, WI and IA both have great events for 12 yr olds in the winter. Even KC has some as well. Are you going to go out and buy your child a Cell phone or Wii,Playstation when they are 5 or are you going to wait till they are say, 10?? I think its a bit more important to get great soccer opportunities in the older part of the youth career. And yes, I do agree, the experience is much more than just soccer. I mean, whats next, taking the U13s next yr to Europe where the coach gets a free trip out of the deal??
This is what one of my players favorite coaches told her when she first made the Region II ODP team at u14..Congrates, however, the older you get, the harder it gets to stay on this team. Lets see how good you are when you are 18, 22 etc. How True!!
Who on earth is spending 35k for this sport a year?? Dont asnwer that cuz Im sure there are some that do.
9:43..I dont care how big a ego a coach has, wait till these players are 17 and 18 and all the Drama going on with their lives and with one another. Lets see how important soccer is for all of them then, lets see if the whole team is all on the same page..Because I can tell you, they wont be. Jealousy, could care less attitudes, being in love, jobs, injuries, the list can go on and on.
10s Dad, I'll chime in here. You cannot hope to find the competition seen at the january Sereno event in at the same time of the year in IA or WI. 12 event in AZ was an 11v11 event, outdoors on grass. You saying that is similar to a futsol tournament in Iowa? And what if the team is already doing multiple futsol sessions all winter? Why do you think ODP sends two teams of girls and boys to camp at the younger age groups. It's not to ID them. It's to get them comfortable so that in the coming years players can focus more on their play rather than on the trip itself. And of course the team makeup is going to change down the line. I still hold to the point that the current incarnation of the team can compete now and the memories given to the girls on this particular team and this particular point in their lives is special. We can agree to disagree here.
1st of all, I have not said that my way is the right way, its just my take on it. Im not trying to come across as attacking anyone.
Yes my dd has been to the President Days tourny in AZ x2 yrs with her ODP team as well, However, I do not recall what age she was then. Ask her if she remembers anything about that trip to AZ when she was younger?? The answer to that will be, which one?? She can remember going to Disney at U15 and 16 alot more than she can going to AZ with ODP when she was younger.
As for playing outdoors during winter..Sure, that would be nice, wish we could year round now. Playing Futsol as you know Im sure, is touches on the ball, it is ALL it is. Futsol is not 11v11 but if your all about going and playing OTHER teams, then going to a state close by would work at U12. Menace does it all the time with Arsnel in Omaha. Eclipse does it with Hawks up in MI at the Hawks indoor place (been there). Menace does it with Shattuck, the list goes on.
Im assuming your one of the parents that went to AZ..in 5 yrs when your U17, come back to this site and read everything that your standing up for. I bet the outlook will have changed?? And ask your player if he or she remembers hanging out in the hallways at U12 and maybe going to the bumper cars after supper??
At the younger ages, families may combine mini-winter getaways with these soccer tournaments. i.e. take a few extra days to see the Grand Canyon when going to Sereno, go through Washington DC for the Jefferson Cup and/or the Hoover Dam when going to the Vegas Showcase. These are sites that some may not have seen otherwise. I completely agree that the players won't remember all of these games, but they will certainly remember the trips when they're older.
I'm with 2:08. I would also like to add that if you think the wizard behind the curtain is not as wonderful and majestic as he appears, please don't pull back the curtain. Just go on with your life and leave us with our illusions.
Oh trust me, U12 Parent(s), Im NOT worrying about U12s in any state!! Been there, done that. To each their own! Cha$Ching$.
Someone asked, I put my 2 cents worth out there, and then we have yahoos like you that think Im trying to move in on your turf. As for the 4-5 hour drive, it takes 2.5 hrs from my driveway to get to Shattuck and a little bit over a 1/2 tank. Good try thou!!
I rest my case. I will leave it all up to others to debate it.
10's Dad- I guess one could argue as to why you would send you child to Shattuck to play the game (and go to school)?? Why not send your kid to a public school and play for a CC?? It's all in how you see it...right?
10's dad makes some good points...if you choose to disagree, that's fine...looks like hate filled dung to me..If you are going to AZ to play serious soccer, then how serious can it be when you "wrap" the ol family vacation around it? What message is that sending?
2,440 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 2001 – 2200 of 2440 Newer› Newest»what are truly the best age/gender teams in the state? i would guess the ssm u19 boys team that almost won nationals is probably no 1. on the girls side, what team is the best (MTA u15 or u12?). According to National Soccer Rankings (shaky at best as a source) of course MN teams are not really on the radar as for national rankings consistently. Personally I found most MTA teams to be highly over rated in my experience in watching them play but then again most teams are. I appreciate when people are humble and relative about their status. When someone from MTA (parent or otherwise) praises their team but acknowledges that it is success on a relative scale I appreciate the comment more. It seems to me that at least MTA has done a nice job of establishing itself as a top destination in MN but for many reasons (geography, reputation, time, soccer environment, etc.) it can only rise so high nationally. I am not a soccer guru by experience tells me that an average team with just one or two dominant players can pretty much carry a team in MN all the way to u15 (especially on the girls side). The states lack of ability to put 11 elite level players on the field together in a single club (say what FC Dallas can) and the sheer lack of numbers will always make MN teams 'tier 2' nationally especially at the older ages. There may always be a single team at a single age group and gender to sneak into the top 20 but that will be rare. I also guess that at this stage the teams in MN don't get significantly stronger each year through new players at tryouts. I would be curious to see the 'turnover' at the top MN teams from year to year compared to the turnover at the top teams in other, more populous markets. In other words, did the state cup champs at each MTA team truly upgrade by adding 5-6 elite new players?
Anyway, MTA is a nice club and doing well especially by MN standards. Their time in the sun run will continue for a few more years but likely that will wane when someone else comes in(think Blackhawks and Keelix in the past). Eventually the true people that hold it together (ie MA) will move on and like most entities, the organization will go backwards. I am glad to see their success especially out of state but hope they (like all parents and teams) keep their success in perspective. It is much easier to listen to people when they are proud but humble. Good luck to all the MN teams, do us all proud!
SSM South - disagree a bit here. I think the traveling will be down for the younger ages perhaps and fewer out of town trips. Why take a U12 to U14 team to PDA or Vegas? Makes no sense in this economy.
I agree traveling tournaments out of the state will drop off. I believe teams will start to look at tournaments within driving distance over flying. Teams will continue to look at the MRL but if they are consistently being sent to Cincinnati over Rockford, that will drop off also. If this is the case , it may (key word may) help tournaments like Just for Girls and USA Cup improve their top flights.
I disagree with both of you, but that doesn't make your case any less viable. See, we can disagree without getting evil!
I think only time will tell on these types of questions. I will take this opportunity to caveat my opinion. I would like to add that my opinion only applies to teams of the quality which BELONG in these types of tournaments. I don't believe it makes any sense for a team to "experiment" and "see how they do" to travel to Disney, CASL, and the like. I think the lower tiers of competition will drop off....but that is only common sense taking over in tough economic times.
SSMSouthCampus
9:43 = another hater who is trying to put words in people's mouths.
When did Bangu claim to discover or reinvent the soccer development wheel? On the contrary, progressive soccer minds like MA took what other clubs in the Midwest were doing and brought it to MN. Year-round training with older teams was already happening to some extent but no one was doing that with the younger age groups. MA did it with the current u17 Woodbury lot, again with the current MTA 15s, and now again with his 12s. The current 17s and 15s had tremendous success locally and other clubs and club directors picked it up. Midwest clubs like Eclipse, Magic, etc. picked it up from nationally successful clubs like Surf and the Texans, clubs in climates that lent to year round training without the cost we see here in MN. Those clubs likely picked up the idea from European model. The game has evolved everywhere in the US thanks to the work of many people like this. You spout ignorance to claim that anyone here in MN, besides maybe Harrison, has any thought that they are doing something new to the sport.
MTA may eventually fade as did clubs like the Blackhawks, yet as the Blackhawks did back in the 90s, MTA now sets the bar or MN soccer development.
As far as the economy, it is sure to have an impact on youth sports as families are forced into decisions about where to earmark their income. It will be interesting to see how MTA addresses this... if they can. If they cannot and there is no turn around in the economic climate, their club will probably suffer the repercussions.
Sorry SSM but I am evil :)
MTA parent
9:43am, how about details on "ethical oversights"? Player recruiting? Providing a product that your club cannot match? And who is the vast majority that you speak of? You need to be more specific. Maybe you should have said "the vast majority of paid DOCs in a handful of clubs can't stand you..." Sounds like your vast majority is in fact a tremendously small minority of the MN soccer population. A minority that feels threatened because your club may lose talent, not be able to field a state championship team, and all of a sudden you're not able to look your fellow DOC peers in the eyes because your "lowly" club doesn't have any more Premier teams. And we all know that clubs are rated on the number of Premier teams they have right? I'm calling you out man. Step up and tell me that I'm wrong. This blog has been too silent. We need to kick up the hate. It's so productive.
anonymous 9:43,
Folks like you continue to allude to issues such as "a few daily ethical oversites" (your words, spelling & claim) yet never seem to be able to share any specifics.
We're waiting for you to post a specific or two to back up your assertion.
Please share as we're waiting with great anticipation.
Oh, and by the way genius, it's "oversights" not "oversites".
1:00 you are dead-on.
Sorry to all the true believers, the MTA formerly Bangu types CONSTANTLY attempt to say they "changed the soccer landscape" here in Mn. Sorry, the youth sports landscape has been shifting for years and soccer as all other youth sports would have changed here whether or not these "visionaries" (snicker now) had done so much to drag us out of the dark ages. This blog is an endless promotion for MTA perpetrated on the rest of us by a couple parents hoping to curry favor and get their little Mia on the blue team next year and the posts from directors easy to pick out too. Give it a rest, SSM will dominate and you'll blame the other clubs for that too.
SSM will not dominate as most parents realize there is not a "pot of gold at the end of the rainbow" with regards to a pro career in soccer. True, SSM is a great prep school, but so are some of MN's public schools, ie. Edina, Wayzata and Minnetonka to name a few.
As for MTA, none of my kids play for that club. There has not been a need, thus far, as each of them play for a very well trained team at each of their respective clubs. Nothing MTA offers is beyond what each of them are getting at their respective clubs at their respective age groups, save for maybe a few more serious players at one of their age groups.
SSM is good for rural kids who would have to drive a great distance to find a compatible soccer atmosphere. Not all of SSM's coaches are great, however, and they get alot of turnover in their staff. Me, I can't afford it, nor would I part with my kids at 14-17 years old. That would be unthinkable considering my oldest heads off to college in nineteen months already.
As for MTA, they do serve a purpose and will continue to as long as most of our CC's don't recognize they need to develop a larger pool of young players. The ONLY problem I have with MTA is that they still call their lower level teams "elite", when in effect, we all know they are not. Marketing? You bet! If parents of the white or gray teams want to think there little Mia is "elite", that's fine with me.
2:28 - you had a solid post going until your "elite" comments. Why should you care? Do you hate P&G because they call Tide detergent "new & improved"?
MTA Girl's 18 White Elite?
MTA Girl's 17 Blue Elite?
MTA Girl's 17 White Elite?
MTA Girl's 16 White Elite?
MTA Girl's 15 White Elite?
MTA Girl's 15 Gray Elite?
2:44 are you calling these teams "elite"? Unlike Tide, not one of these teams are new and improved.
2:59 - why do you care? Please help us all understand why what a soccer club that your child does not belong to chooses to call their teams angers and frustrates you so much? If this ticks you off, I'd hate to see how you react to real life. Seriously, please help up all understand?
3:17 first, I'm not 2:59 I would guess the irritation comes from the constant bleeting from the mta parents and staff about how great they are (this is all ok so far) then we listen to the rehashed bs my old club, or your club can't offer enough for your little star. Which is false I'll say it again false. If they are truly an elite program ths=ey should not have to endlessly talk of their eliteness.
3:21 - please show us all the "endless talk of their eliteness" on this blog (ones initiated by someone from MTA not a response to another post). Feel free to cut and paste. Please detail date and time so everyone can go back and confirm.
The 'little star' and 'bleeting parents' mentality knows no club boundaries and permeates all youth activites from soccer to science fairs. To attribute this to a single club, their staff and their supporters is ridiculous.
3:17-go ahead and call your "white" or "gray" player elite. What ever makes up for your own ineffectiveness in life. I prefer to call my kids good young soccer players who love the game--not the "name".
me thinks that if all the anons disappeared and the true names appeared, the true identities of the "haters" and "kool-aid lovers" wouldn't come as a big shock to many.
actually 3:30, being bent out of shape about something that does not affect you might indicate a greater ineffectiveness.....
Again 3:30, what do you care about the name?
You know nothing about any of these kids or their parents and their 'effectiveness in life.'
Call your kids whatever you like. But to label someone you do not know 'ineffective in life' because a kid decided to play for a particular soccer club is downright sad.
Now we're rolling...
Where have all you guys been hiding this last month?
Elite is a marketing term. People get angry because it works and one particular club has the advantage of the pro team in their corner, so their elite talk will likely work more. But are all you haters out there saying that you'd support the MTA program, or a program like it, if they didn't use the word elite? If they only had one team at an age group? That's the biggest load of BS on here. DOCs of clubs who THINK that from top to bottom they can field teams that compete effectively on the national scene are the ones who are pissed off and will NEVER support an elite system, delusional as they are as to thinking their club will be a magnet for talent. And magnet for talent is needed if anyone is to claim an elite team. St Croix had teams, Woodbury has a team, EP has a team, but none of those clubs are centrally located and can hope to draw metro-wide talent. Blackhawks are dead and gone. The one club that can hope to match what MTA can do is Mpls United - central location, winter facility, focus on development at the younger age groups. But it's an uphill battle for them. Just think if MTA and MU worked together...
Obviously open for debate. I attached a moniker should any choose to respond.
MU like MTA are too big to be a real development club.
I would ask this question,why are there so many teams at MTA and MU for that matter.A popular product and good marketing is the reason so many players are there but what is the Clubs reason for having so many teams?I think its one or two things,Money and Control.
If either Club was in it strictly for the Players they wouldnt have so many poor and average teams and would deal on the higher end of the talent pool.There are too many spoons in the bowl to feed!
2:28-
I agree in principle with most of your post on SSM, but would change it to read like this to be totally accurate in my opinion.....
"SSM is good for SOME kids who HAVE THE RIGHT PERSONALITY TRAITS AND ARE NOT ABLE TO OBTAIN THE TRAINING ENVIRONMENT WHICH BEST SUITS THEM. Not all of SSM's coaches are great, however THERE IS NO CLUB IN THE COUNTRY WHO HAS A PERFECT COACHING STAFF TOP TO BOTTOM. SO IN THIS RESPECT, SSM FACES THE SAME CHALLENGES AS EVERY OTHER SPORTS ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD (SO THIS PART OF MY ARGUMENT CAN BE CONSIDERED IRRELEVANT). Me, I DON'T THINK I CAN afford it FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD, nor would I part with my kids at 14-17 years old. That would be unthinkable IN MY SITUATION considering my oldest heads off to college in nineteen months already."
SSMSouthCampus
4:43, what???!!! Because a club is big means it doesn't develop players? On the contrary, maybe big clubs try to develop elite players AND lower level players. Development doesn't just happen for the top players, right?
Having two or three teams for one group of players is the norm in sports. A player who can’t make the top team albeit HS Varsity or the premiere club team is better off staying connected to the organization or school team by playing on a lower team rather than going somewhere else. The player can prove themselves over time to make the higher team. Staying within the organization give the player the knowledge of what’s expected on and off the field in order to play on the higher team. Having only one team means players get cut more often and many players who excel in later years may not come back due to hard-feelings.
Big relates to a community type club not an elite set up.
I think if a club is too big player development isnt as good.There are not enough top level coaches around for clubs of 40,50 plus teams and I think it would be difficult to really offer the highest quality at a club of 1000 players.
I think its common sense that proves that.
How many teams do Sockers,Magic have?
The Chicago Magic and Dallas Texans are very large clubs.
All of their teams aren't state cup caliber but overall the clubs are elite clubs.
For MTA to have the goal of achieving that type of success gives them something to strive for.
Even they know they aren't at that level yet.
For people to ridicule them for attempting to improve their players, club and level of soccer is narrow minded and petty.
Let's all be realistic and take care of our own clubs' issues and let MTA worry about their own teams and concerns.
Griping about opponenets in here is a waste of time.
IMO, some people miss the point of MTA. True, the organization strives to provide opportunities for top level players on their older Blue teams. These look to include surrounding talent with talent and putting the kids in front of college coaches. But for the majority of kids in the MTA programs the goal looks to be to help increase interest in the game by being tied in with the pro team.
Maybe less than 1% of MN players would actually fall into an "elite" category on a national scale but that doesn't mean someone shouldn't look out for the many more "elite" athletes relative to MN standards.
To non-MTA clubs I'd say provide what you provide to those who choose your opportunity. To MTA I'd say continue to provide what you provide regardless of opposition. You can't have the support of the majority when you look to service the minority - no matter what people claim here saying that they'd support you if you did this or if you did that - it's a crock. You will never have that support. If club directors and board members work to undermine the Thunder pro team efforts, then their true colors will shine as they are not in their positions for the good of the sport. Can't be said any more straight forward than that.
isn' it first and foremost all about development and love of the game? i always thought that is why "white" teams and C2 & C3 teams exist. go to the mysa site and look how many C2/C3 teams there are versus premier or even C1. the ratio has to be close to 3:1 of non-elite teams versus vs higher level teams.
9:18 that was good. I agree that all clubs should do what they deem appropriate for their club, this includes MTA. The gripe most have with MTA is their TACTICS and ARROGANCE in the claim s they make as the superior opportunity available to MN players regardless of the players current situation.
If you are correct that they will never be accepted because they represent only the "minority" of players. Then they should stop trying to have a club with often 3 or 4 teams at any given age group. Clearly their teams beyond the Blue teams are far from ELITE. In fact they are in many cases average at best.
If they would focus on one top team at each age group they would have a chance to elimainate their current reputation of a club who prays on the dreams of average or below average kids for purposes of cash flow to support their top Blue Teams. I know this will never happen however due to the need for revenue .
9:46 - i believe 9:18 made a good point with the "no matter what people claim here saying that they'd support you if you did this or did that". If they only had one team then everyone would complain about them recruiting all the best players.
What you are really saying is that every parent who's kid is not on the top team is wasting their money. Give us parents more credit as we will always "vote" with our feet and our checkbooks. For us, I am hoping that our child is having fun, loves her teammates, and improves enough to be able to contribute on her high school team this fall. We/she have no illusions of her playing in college, but it is the sport she loves and we want to support her. It is that simple. If we become unhappy then we will leave and find something we hope will be better. It is that simple.
9:57 has well placed comments. All MTA should have this non arrogant attitude.
9:56 Tell me they are not trying to rectuit the best players today.
I do agree that they can do whatever they see as the best formula for success for MTA. It's a free country. I will say however that the reason they are disliked by many is because of the tactics and arrogance they show towards other opportunities. Good for you that your daughter is having a solid experience, I think that is great. I doubt you meet the profile but I have seen so many parents/kids sucked into the dreams of grandure that are presented by some at Bangu/MTA regardless of that childs current opportunity. Once reality strikes and it becomes clear that the player is a low end player they are suddenly less important, recieve lower quality coachiing, and eventually leave the game. Would this have happenned at their community club? who knows? but for sure the cost would have been more affordable at the CC. For some the money isn't a huge issue, for others it is. As I said earlier. This is NOT me trying to change the MTA program, but rather to describe why so many dislike the MTA program. It is a free country. Do whatever you think is best for your daughter.
10:27 - sounds personal.
10:27 I've seen MTA white players treat their H.S. teammates as though they were inferior players. I've also (on that same H.S. team) seen MTA Blue players treat their H. S. teammates as equals. Who am I to analyze, but it seems to me that deep down many of the White players have some type of complex. Maybe it has to do with getting clobbered in Indy or the MRL each yuear, both places those teams have no business playing at.
Elk River youth soccer coach on trial for sexual assault on one of his female players. Middle age coach takes advantage of young girl.
Be aware of coaches who socialize too much with their young players.
Apparently the ER coach selected his victim carefully. This guy was a perv in coaches clothing.
I've seen CC players treat...
I've seen CC parents...
"Who am I to analyze" (but I will anyway) the "deep down type of complex" of other people.
Best to analyze what is deep down inside yourself and leave the decision about where another person's child plays or the tournaments they go to up to that parent or group of parents.
10:30 it's 10:27. I swear it is not personal My kids are on very good teams, are getting very good coaching and are having an overall great soccer experience. I have just witnessed other kids , some of them friends of my kids, given the "hard sell" most didn't bite, some did and now at least a few of them are out of the sport all together. Maybe they would have been out if they had stayed nobody knows for sure.
I have two playing competitive and one was recruited respectfully by Bangu when she attended a "footskills" camp a few years ago. As I indicated "dreams of grandure that are presented by some at Bangu/MTA" Key word is SOME. I know all clubs have an occasional screwball parent or coach who goes over the line, but MTA seems to have a more passionate following (parent and coaches) that seems to cross the line more than most clubs. I have been involved as a parent and coach for 10 seasons now (god am I getting old)and have seen more conflict with Bangu/MTA than any other clubs combined. My experiences may not be reflective of the entire organization as a matter of fact I know that they are not. I have had several very respectful discussions and correspondences with Bangu/MTA coaches over the years. Again...I am not saying they need to change anything but am simply pointing out why that group is often disliked.
As written and said lots before: Bangu/MTA right idea wrong people running it.
"Why that group is often disliked"
Isn't there a name for disliking a group of people and publicly bad mouthing them based on the experienced reality of a few individuals of the group?
"Why that group is often disliked"
Isn't there a name for disliking a group of people and publicly bad mouthing them based on the experienced reality of a few individuals of the group?
Any new verbals for the 2010's?
Showcase events for the oldest age groups don't make a lot of sense as the players have already verballed or committed.Seems to me your spending a lot of money for nothing.Why do clubs do it?
"I swear it is not personal..."
"10 seasons now (god am I getting old)and have seen more conflict with Bangu/MTA than any other clubs combined"
If this isn't a personal attack, than I don't know what is.
I also coached for about 6 years and my experience was of the 3 teams who seemed to always be a pain year after year - none of them were Bangu. I won't name the 3 because that would be a personal attack.
I always love it when people go on a somewhat "public" forum to criticize people and organizations that they themselves have no direct connection to. I'd hate to see what people would say if it was personal.
I would assume a team would go to a showcase because not everyone on the team has committed or verbaled. So often people forget about the players other than the top 2-4. Many of the players 5-18 are still looking for the opportunity to put themselves in front of college coaches.
or as a team to play some solid competition (hopefully) and continue to develop and get better. not much fun to practice from november up until state cup with only a few scrimmages sprinkled in there.
12;54 Personal attack or personal observation? There is a difference.
SSmurf (if you are lurking)- Good showing by your girls last night from what I understand. I was not there, but reports say that they were much more organized and gave SSM a scare. Congrats on the good showing. Wish I could have been there!
SSMSouthCampus
The Rev 15s scared the SSM 16s? Interesting...
3:51 - there is a difference - your post however was both.
Hi SSM!
It was a better showing from us still have a lot of work to do but a step in the right direction. First half we did well than we ran out of gas and SSM deserved the win. If I do not see you feb 1 I hope to see you at the March tournament, did your daughter play center D with the head gear (remeber she had a head injury this fall)
SS
Congrates to the 2 MN girls being called into the U20 and U17 National Team Camps the end of this month.
U17 girl the top player on Inferno. Congrats!
From Top Drawer:
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/component/option,com_topdrawer/Itemid,251/nid,7584/
ST. LOUIS – Two of the brightest lights in American soccer coaching spoke very plainly here Thursday about the need to reform player development in Women's soccer.
North Carolina head coach Anson Dorrance and Boston Breakers and former U.S. WNT coach Tony DiCicco both called for USSF to create a system along the lines of the Developmental Academy currently in place on the boys side. The remarks were made at the NSCAA Convention.
"Success can be misleading," said the notes on Dorrance's overhead slide. "Make no mistake, we are losing ground to the rest of the world."
Anson Dorrance"Our players aren't technical enough," DiCicco said, even as he discussed the world championship earned last month by the U.S. U20 WNT he was coaching in Chile. "Youth soccer is a big business and if you win more it brings dollars to your club, but there are too many things we don't do well enough if we want to keep winning."
The two coaches said they had discussed the issues Wednesday night with USSF President Sunil Gulati and Secretary-General Dan Flynn, but emphasized the comments were there own, and not those of the Federation. It is believed USSF is contemplating the establishment of a Girls Academy system similar to that in place on the boys side.
Dorrance, winner of 20 national titles at North Carolina, said an Academy League of approximately 40 teams would be welcome, with a defined season calendar that would limit matches per season to somewhere around 40. He called for such an Academy to feature targeted training opportunities for teams in conjunction with Women's Professional Soccer.
Other possibilities include regional and sub-regional player for younger age groups, with ODP continuing to exist outside the Academy.
Dorrance also said it would be wise to avoid making "too many changes right out of the gate" and added that high school would be the exception to the rule when it came to the forbidding of dual rostering. He also said USSF would have to have an enforcement mechanism to promote and relegate clubs based on their development performance every two or three years.
DiCicco, winner of the 1999 World Cup with the Women's National Team, said the days where U.S. squads can use high pressure tactics as an equalizer against the rest of the world are coming to an end as nations like Japan continue to improve their technical and tactical prowess. He also scored the American player for not "seeing the game" well enough, noting "that is our fault as coaches." He reserved his harshest criticism for the technical side.
"We do not receive the ball well. We can't play at the speed needed if we have to take that much time to receive and turn," he said. "The German and Chinese player will be moving away from traffic with the ball while we're still battling for possession. We don't drive the ball well and we don't head the ball well enough. We need to start improving our technique from the younger ages."
Dorrance said he hopes the NSCAA Convention will be a prime venue for discussion and evaluation of any such move toward a national academy.
I agree with this, but I dont think there is a whole lot of parents on this site that would..Its all about winning and getting those rankings..
10s Dad
10s Dad, are you really focused on training to compete with elite Brazilian and German players? How many Minnesota girls will make it to that level? Is Anson Dorrance concerned about the enjoyment Minnesota girls have playing soccer? Isn't it about competing and having fun for 99% of the soccer players out there? That means keeping track of wins and getting that plastic award, not more and more training.
Having said that, ODP is a complete failure for both camps: it is neither fun nor an effective means of identifying or training elite players.
Joe the Plumber
Also from Top Drawer:
While it sometimes is implicitly frowned up as a personality characteristic in our society, particularly among young ladies, there's no question that ambition is an important quality for a successful athlete.
You simply can't succeed at the highest levels without wanting to.
It's early in the career of 13-year old Minnesota Thunder Academy forward Lauren Miller, but she's showing the kind of drive and ambition, not to mention ability, that is typically found in players who make it to the highest levels.
Lauren Miller keeps pushing herself to be the best.
"She's very competitive. She always wants to come in first," is how her mother, Allyson, describes Lauren's drive. "She always wants to have the team do well."
Miller plays two years up the Thunder U15 club team coached by Mark Cook, and a year up with the Region II ODP 94s. Cook is very high on her potential.
"I first saw her at 11 and it was hard to believe she was 11, playing with the U13s," Cook said. "She had such an ability and knowledge of the game, you could tell she would be a special player. I started working personally with her last year and even in the last year I've seen a huge change in her work ethic. She's getting a lot stronger and she's always been special technically, with good vision. Now she's matured mentally and physically and is taking it to the next level."
Lauren herself leaves little doubt as to just how much she wants to make it big.
"For me personally it's mostly about skill and the mental side," she said when asked about the areas that separate top players from the pack. "It comes down to how much do you want to score, and how much do you want to contribute to the game. And you need skill to finish and to create chances."
Lauren said she will train either with her team or a personal trainer 3-4 times per week, and adds that she always has a ball at her feet when at home.
"Soccer is just basically my life," she said.
Cook said Lauren is becoming a more complete team player on a daily basis.
"That's really our focus," he said. "We know how powerful an individual player she can be. We're talking with her this year about making her teammates better, about how she can create opportunities for the team."
As Lauren continues to take the training and instruction to heart, Cook sees nothing but positives ahead.
"If she continues to develop the way she has, even just in last year where she has put in a lot of time to develop physically, and her work ethic keeps growing, the sky is the limit to be honest," Cook said. "She already has great technical ability and she's creative. Her work ethic was really the thing and even in the last year we've seen a complete change in her mentality. I've had some kids with national teams come back and think they can coast, but she's been working even harder."
Lauren lists making a youth national team at the Nike Friendlies this summer as a short-term goal.
"I want to keep improving and keep moving up through ODP and making teams," she said. "I want to push myself to the highest level."
Congrats to Lauren and her family for this wonderful recognition.
It's interesting to hear Dorrance the Father of Bootball talking about technical skills.Here in MN it's all bootball,Coaches don't know how to use a player with the skills Dorrance is talking about.
Copy the boys program...r u nuts.It's the women who have done all the winning for the last 20 years. The men are chumps.
None of the cc's and or clubs do a good job teaching technique/skills.Here in MN it's all bootball even at the college level.
Well then Mr. Plumber, If your dd is playing rec, this piece from Coach Anson and Tony isnt geared towards you, simple as that!! I do not think either one of those coaches are recruiting rec players. And for the remark about how many MN players are ever going to reach that level? We all know of a Keeper from MN that has been to that level, and another keeper that is just now coming up thru the ranks that will be there one day. I know of a whole team of MN girls that played with the Lightning last summer that played against internationals that have been drafted into the WPS. Does that count?
Why does this piece mean to you that its all about playing against internationals?? Why cant it mean getting better to play at the U, or any college for that matter??
And as for ODP, that is funny, didnt the U20s just win the WC and the 17s were runners up?? Most if not all players coming thru the ODP ranks?? Why dont you pack your bags and fly either to FL or CA for the upcoming Natl Camps and count how many of these girls have come up thru the ranks of ODP.
Joe, stick with cleaning the poopers and you will go far in life.
10s Dad
1:48..I thought the same thing, Anson saying we need more tact players. Your right, he teaches boot ball with non-fifa sub rules.
I would really like to see the NCAA go to FIFA rules regarding only 3 subs per game instead of line changes like Hockey. But IM sure that would change the amount of scholarships the schools would be able to hand out then??
SS-
She was playing center D with the headgear. I am glad to see that the game gave both sides the ability to work on things and to find areas of improvement needed. After all, that really is what these games are about. Not sure about the game on Feb 1.....I am supposed to be in India on business (not looking forward to that).
Joe the Plumber-
I think that it is safe to assume that 10s Dad IS concerned with training to compete with Elite Brazilian and German players. His daughter was one of the players called up for duty with the U20 Nats. She has already played against the German National team a while back with the U17s (I think) at the Nike Friendlies. You couold have chosen to direct that comment at probably 99.98% of the people on this blog.....but the shoe fits with #10.
SSMSouthCampus
Having said that, ODP is a complete failure for both camps: it is neither fun nor an effective means of identifying or training elite players.
Joe the Plumber
Joe the Plumber, since ODP is a complete waste of time in indentifying playes, what would you recommend?
ssm,they do a decent curry over there.
Joe - why is ODP a failure? Usually most folks who say ODP is a failure usually have had a child who did not attain the achievement level that they hoped for. Is it perfect - far from it. Much like work, school, club teams, etc... it is prone to subjectivity, personal preferences, politics, etc.... If anyone (Joe included) has a better way to identify the top talent at the state level which then is assembled at the regional level to select a regional team which is then assembled at the national level to select national teams I would be all ears.
I've watched the Lightning play three games last year and the only player that I saw who was a stud was Caroline Smith. None of the other players caould even carry her water bottle.Lots of average players. Get drafted in the new womens league....forget it.
2010 TOP 100 MEN:
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/index.php
67. Patrick Donyen
Crystal, (MN) Plymouth Super Eagles Forward
69. Paul Yonga
Brooklyn Park, (MN) Arsenal Super Eagles Defender
congrats to these men from Minnesota
Isn't Patrick at SSM?
Isn't Yonga at MTA?
some folks...... just......can't.........let........go..
Catie Sessions - Woodbury Inferno, #14 on the Top Drawer Top 100 2010 list.
Great to see some local girls getting some national pub lately.
CS-hard worker-great attitude. A coup for Wilkins.
Interesting article on LM. Lots can happen (injuries, attitude) but right now she is the best player (for age) in the state by a wide margin from U13-18.
8:32
A wide margin - please! Nice acomplishment but get some perspective.
Sessions is a great example showing that kids from Minnesota can succeed if they're exposed to excellent training at a young age and continue their training and development under top level coaches.
This is encouraging for all kids in Minnesota devoted to the game of soccer.
Congrats!
Hmmmm.... I think there are many other kids who have "succeeded". Not sure what the definition of that is. They have come from a wide variety of backgrounds. They have had several different coaches. They have gone to many different colleges and had good careers there.
Elk River coach convicted To be sentenced soon. Parents need to be observant and kids need to be educated.
anon 11:58,
I suspect miac fan means succeed at a very high level.
Go to national camp, make top 100 lists etc.
Many here claim from time to time that Minnesota doesn't have that kind of talent, but we're learning otherwise.
232 I think we need to wait a few years to see how players do in college to judge that about any of them. ODP has many flaws in their selection process and the top 100 lists simply parrot the ODP lists and exist solely to generate interest and revenue for the publications that put them out. It may well be that these players go on to show themselves to be very good players at the next level, but wait and see if it happens. The best player MN has ever produced never made a regional team or top anything list. DISCLAIMER: This post was a general statement. It was not directed at any specific player. No parents and coaches need to respond that their player is the best.
3:20,
Who is the best player Minnesota ever produced?
Mamnny Lagos, Tom Preshus? Who is your choice?
I would vote for C. Smith.
Tony Sanneh
One starred at Kansas, the other one was a standout in the World Cup.
Seems to me some gal by the name of Brianna Scurry had some success. Puts the others to shame actually, saving for Mr. Sanneh.
C. Smith is the only reason to go to a Lightning game, but she couldn't carry Ms. Scurry's gloves.
Can't compare GK's to field players. Whole different world.
The question was who was the best player MN ever produced, not best field player.
And yes, you can compare GK to field players; at least as well as you can compare a defender to a forward. You make a comparison based upon the highest level they achieved.
I believe that starting keeper on a world cup championship team trumps goal scoring stud for a D1 soccer program.
No disrespect....somebody mentioned this previously. Minn is not a soccer state nor is the U.S. a soccer country. Probably never will be. Football,basketball,baseball,hockey
all rank ahead of soccer. What does the rest of the world have?
10:45 P.M.
For men, the U.S. is not a soccer country. For women, it is THE sport. Where else can a woman play a sport where she gets to be physical without being chastised by society?
What you are meaning to say is that the best male athletes in this country are QB's, point Guards and shortstops or pitchers. The best female athletes in this country are soccer players, period. Frankly, if my daughters were boys, they'd probably be playing football, hockey and or baseball.
Elk River coach's conviction relieves victim
By PAUL LEVY, Star Tribune
January 16, 2009
Elk River soccer coach Eric Hawkins was convicted Friday of sexually assaulting a former youth player, whose graphic and emotional testimony brought jurors to tears.
After three years of feeling "ashamed," the victim proclaimed after Friday's verdict: "I feel like I'm taking my life back."
Hawkins, 45, a fixture for years in Elk River youth soccer and a former Rockford High School boys' soccer coach, was found guilty of first- and second-degree sexual assault. He could receive 12 years, said prosecutor Leah Emmans of the Sherburne County attorney's office.
"I felt like I was speaking for girls who didn't have a voice," the victim told the Star Tribune after the verdict.
Between tears and using detail that had some jurors squirming, the victim, now 18, told of sexual assaults and advances Hawkins made when they were alone in his car, traveling to and from practices and clinics. The assaults, which started when the girl was 14, took place in Hennepin and Sherburne counties.
The shame that once pushed her to attempt suicide gave way Friday to triumph and relief. The victim said that she panicked while on the witness stand earlier this week when she and Hawkins made eye contact and "he smirked."
"It was the hardest thing I've ever done," she said of testifying in court. "I was scared, but I knew I was telling the truth."
Hawkins was removed from his job as the Rockford High School boys' soccer coach 11 months ago, after allegations became public. He also worked three years ago as a volunteer with the boys' soccer team at Robbinsdale Cooper High School.
No stranger to controversy, he was suspended by the Minnesota Youth Soccer Association (MYSA) for four years in 2002 for sideline behavior that included "inappropriate language" and "taunting." In 2006, he agreed in Hennepin County District Court to pay $220,000 as part of a defamation-suit settlement to the MYSA.
Hawkins testified in court that he'd never been alone with the victim, even after several witnesses testified otherwise, Emmans said.
Emmans praised the victim's "courage" and lauded "the wonderful people who devote their time to children's athletics. It's such a shame that something like this could cast a shadow."
"He's like a poison," the victim's mother said. "His reign of terror is over. There will be secret smiles everywhere in Elk River."
The jury took less than two hours to reach its verdict. Hawkins is to be sentenced in Sherburne County District Court on March 12.
The Star Tribune generally does not identify victims of sexual assault.
A call to Mark Miller, Hawkins' Minneapolis attorney, was not immediately returned.
Paul Levy • 612-673-4419
© 2009 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
1153 you cannot be serious. Ever hear of basketball? Go to a high level game sometime and you won't think the best female athletes play soccer. Hockey is pulling even also at least around here.
8:36 I agree. Womens basketball is without doubt the #1 womens sport in the U.S. It's also #1 in revenue.
Did the SSM 17 boys play MTA today?How did it shake out anyone?
I heard thhe MTA boys brought the germans with and the two girls dominated play. This could be huge for Mn soccer getting big time talent like that to come to train in an elite club. How will the other clubs respond?
It backfired because the girls were very impressed with SSM and now are seriously considering going to school there. They do have one condition though, they want to train and play in the boys program. May be a dealbreaker.
Thunder 12's in semi this morning in AZ good luck
SSM Boys 17s 4 MTA 1
wasnt even close Speed
Does anyone know if they still plan to have u13/14 brackets at the Las Vegas College Showcase in mid-March? According to the site it only show u15-u19 listed. I know many MTA teams have gone in the past at that age group. Gotsoccer seems to think so but nothing seems to indicate it on the site. Any MTA u13/14 teams receive notice?
Vegas showcase has been losing some of its luster over the year. Many juniors have already committed and it is not a very well run tournament plus very $$$$.
Then dont go!
It doesn't matter about U17 this year. All the talent will be at MTA for US Development Academy next year as 18s. No other club will be able to offer these players anything similar. Hope all other teams do this state and our talent a service by doing their best to develop the 17s this year, then we all look for our USSDA team to be able to compete. Will they be able to? No idea...
MTA 12 girls lose in (AZ) semi's 3-1. Nice run girls.
Other than CS what other U-17 MN(junior) has committed? As for current MTA 17's (next year's MTA 18's being the place to be), they are just plain weak. The MTA 17's have absolutely no speed and will again get blasted in the MRL First Division. Why would anyone go there when you've got Woodbury and to a lesser extent PSA?
As for the LVCS, only U-15 to U-18 this year.
That MTA 12 team (Abboud's dream team) demolishes everyone in MN at their age group and is highly competitive playing u13. The fact that they lost in the semis in a small tournament at their own age group should be a reminder to keep MN soccer in perspective. Again it is a great team and they should be proud of their results but lets just remember how far MN soccer still has to go. These tournaments are great to keep perspective and hopefully it will challenge them to train harder.
classic back handed compliment. doubt you would have posted anything if they had made it to the finals.
Anonymous said...
Other than CS what other U-17 MN(junior) has committed? As for current MTA 17's (next year's MTA 18's being the place to be), they are just plain weak. The MTA 17's have absolutely no speed and will again get blasted in the MRL First Division. Why would anyone go there when you've got Woodbury and to a lesser extent PSA?
This just goes to show you, its ALL about winning. Maybe players will want to go there for training and development??
10s Dad
2:52 My kid plays for a different club at a different age group. So I have no personal agenda here. I disagree completely that the tournament the MTA 12's played in is a "small tournament". The number of teams is less important than the ability of the teams. This AZ tournament is highly rated and the teams are from very respectable clubs. A semi-final showing is very good. Curious to learn what part of the game MTA was weaker at, skills, speed, depth etc. Congrats to the MTA girls.
2:52:
DR will give MTA 12's a run, as may a few others.
I'm sure it will be on the road to regionals site. He already has started the recaps. As for small tournament, it's not Disney, nor Vegas, but when our young teams can face So Cal or Texas teams and hold their own at 12, that's something regardless of how the haters hate on here. I think MTAs 13s and Revs 13s both travel to tough events next month. Other indicators of where we stand in terms of girls development. Now the boys are a different story...
3:40 - are you referring to the DR 12's or 13's giving the MTA 12's a run?
It doesn't matter about U17 this year. All the talent will be at MTA for US Development Academy next year as 18s. No other club will be able to offer these players anything similar. Hope all other teams do this state and our talent a service by doing their best to develop the 17s this year, then we all look for our USSDA team to be able to compete. Will they be able to? No idea...
throwing the towel in already?
After promoting "give us the best players"all year and "the talent is spread too thin"what did MTA manage to acheive by putting together a u17 team?they further thinned the talent pool,how ironic.
MTA should of done one of two things at 17 boys:1}hired a currenr 17s coach who could of brought in an established solid group of the better players in his squad,then added 6 to 10 top players to that core.That would of brought stability and also pooled some good talent together.2}they should of looked at their roster/tryouts and said"you know what,its too late for 17s,lets concentrate on younger groups instead of thinning out this group.
Sadly they did none of those which only proves that they really are not that smart or that concerned about the players.
They were a bit too arrogant in the way they went about the whole thing,lets see how great their Coaching staff is now
the u12 blues that just played in AZ over the past couple days should not be ripped on. judge them for the players they are instead of the name on the front of the jersey
the MTA u12 blues that just played in AZ over the past couple days should not be ripped on. judge them for the players they are instead of the name on the front of the jersey
Why judge 12 year olds at all? Parents are running amok.
why take u12s to Az. to play Soccer,that is very very sad and whoever condones it as a coach is a moron.They could of trained instead,u12s,my gosh,what a joke!
Wow, sounds like you don't get out much. What's wrong with getting out of Minnesota for a long weekend, playing some great soccer and having fun?
so an eighteen family vacation?Get a life joker.Have the 11/12 year old kids spend time with Family!
Anonymous said...
It doesn't matter about U17 this year. All the talent will be at MTA for US Development Academy next year as 18s. No other club will be able to offer these players anything similar. Hope all other teams do this state and our talent a service by doing their best to develop the 17s this year, then we all look for our USSDA team to be able to compete. Will they be able to? No idea...
throwing the towel in already?
After promoting "give us the best players"all year and "the talent is spread too thin"what did MTA manage to acheive by putting together a u17 team?they further thinned the talent pool,how ironic.
MTA should of done one of two things at 17 boys:1}hired a currenr 17s coach who could of brought in an established solid group of the better players in his squad,then added 6 to 10 top players to that core.That would of brought stability and also pooled some good talent together.2}they should of looked at their roster/tryouts and said"you know what,its too late for 17s,lets concentrate on younger groups instead of thinning out this group.
Sadly they did none of those which only proves that they really are not that smart or that concerned about the players.
They were a bit too arrogant in the way they went about the whole thing,lets see how great their Coaching staff is now
19/1/09 5:27 PM
---------------------------
Jeez, all of this frustration over a friendly in Jan. Just let the kids play. Or, maybe Shattuck should get a bit more credit, ever think about that??
yeah,Shattuck should get all the credit,they train everyday,prepare for a weekend game at the home field against teams that are not even in season,on top of that they recruit from all over.
Yeah,lots of credit due there!
Hmmm... train every day? prepare for a game? home fields? recruit the top players from all over?
Sounds like a pretty good strategy to me.
I'm sure it wasn't intended, but 8:52's post was a pretty good advertisement for SSM.
7:55 - some clubs, families, and players choose to test their abilities in the winter months in order to improve and create soccer memories. You obviously choose not to and would rather spend time creating memories by blogging and ripping on people who do. Tell me, who is the real joker? People like you will continue to live in the dark ages of youth soccer while others forge ahead and break new ground. I'm sure there was no family time down there either. Just a crazy coach and his 18 players, right?
pathetic
I have to agree with 10:07. Where is the downside to the anon post of 8:52? I guess the SSM kids should sit in thier dorm rooms at night eating Cheetos (should it be crunchy of puffs?) instead of training and playing games on weekends?
Obviously, the MTA group saw value in coming in to play a game.....or they wouldn't have done it?
As far as the MN girls-- congrats to all who are getting some print/attention. I don't care WHAT CLUB you play for-- that is positive! Congrats to them.
SSMSouthCampus
Anyone coming to SSM this weekend with the MN ODP teams? I am curious to know how they have broken them up (listed on our schedule as MN "1" ODP and MN "2" ODP. Also, Wisconsin ODP coming in for games. The Wisco team is the 93s.....what is MN bringing?
SSMSouthCampus
SSMSC I am not sure being mentioned on a blog that has maybe 50-75 active readers qualifies as print/attention. More like bragging by parents and coaches and ripping by rivals. Bad enough about 17 year olds. About 12 year olds? 1019 is correct. Pathetic.
It was said earlier, The MTA 12's have sone very well against MN competition, If they have the financial means to go out of state to test themselves against top talent from another region(a historically strong region) why not? especially when they can mix in a nice winter getaway in Jan. Hmm? Arizona in Jan 75 degrees and sunny or 15-20 degrees in MN. I like the idea of AZ.
I do agree that it realistically only makes sense for very high level teams to go to these top out of state tournaments as other less accomplished teams can be adequately challenged locally. unless of course they too are looking for a winter break from the MN cold.
So what developmental value was gained by taking these U12 kids to AZ?
Is it worth the money or should the money spent better allocated by dome rental in MN and playing the area U13 team?
Was development the reason for the trip or something else - club publicity?
just curious
It's all about cache' (sp) the mta crowd uses this as a way to look like what they do is much better than any other club, parents buy into it and round and round it goes.
just curious, maybe both. Team success at events like this help get that team accepted into additional high level events.
IMO, people need to leave off the hate. If people can't justify or have no interest in travel like this, stay at your cc. Stars traveled at 12, MA took Inferno to the President's Day tournament in AZ when they were 12, and looks like he took the MTA 15s to Jefferson Cup at 12 (according to r2r). Bit of a trend here with top MN teams, don't you think
i think it is great that MTA (MA) took his u12 team to AZ. that is an excellent team that has crushed everyone in its age group here in MN. they should seek out additional challenges just like all top tier teams. the kids will remember that experience as they don't care about the stupid politics and rantings of parents and the folks on sites like this. in my original post, all i was saying was that whenever parents brag about how great their teams are against Mn teams (ie state cup), just have some humility and perspective across a broader scale. at the current time, being great in Mn is like being the top JV team, it is a great accomplishment for the kids and they shouldn't be 'denounced' for beating who they are assigned to play. over time, hopefully MN (and Region 2) will catch up to other regions so that our best teams are truly national best teams. to all teams (and bragging parents) a little humility mixed with your bravado would be nice
SSMSouthCampus
Since the 93 MN ODP team has a pool group of 28 players, the coaches will announce the teams when the players arrive at the dome on Saturday. This will allow for more playing time for each player, as they are still trying to earn a spot on the team that goes to nationals in March.
Thanks for the info 9:45. I know that Saturday and Sunday will be a great day to say hi to some friends (that I don't get to see much)-- but would welcome any introductions and would like to be able to show that I truly don't have horns. If going to be there, speak up and we can make sure to get together to atleast say hi.
SSMSouthCampus
Agreed 9:30, I got that sense from previous posts. Nothing like a little name calling though to get this blog rolling. 9:04, you are correct. To others, why don't you email MA and ask his rational. Or wait for his comments on his blog. Or are you hoping someone will paste them on here to be ripped apart?
Again - so its great they went to AZ, what "developmental" value was gained?
If they crush every team at their age group, play up or play the boys.
If development is the goal at these non-college value ages how does this trip help?
Anyone?
Not a rip on anyone cc or club because some are heading that way (younger ages traveling longer distances).
I have ready many articles in the last few years about too little practices and too many games.
just curious
12 players, 20 parents say 35 people x $400 airfare. $14,000, Say 15 rooms 2 nights $3000. How many scrimmages against 13's or boys teams or training would that buy with the benefit of raising the level of other Mn teams, that is a big part of that club's mission isn't it?
10:29 worry about your own checkbook, Look at all of the gain your team can achieve because you are a more efficient money manager. THEY made a CHOICE to attend, THEY can determine if they recieved good VALUE for THEIR money. Why do you care? Mind your own business. By the way, I do NOT have a kid playing for MTA, and have no desire to, I tend to agree that I personally wouldn't have interest in spending the dollars to attend this type of tournament at this age but last I checked this is a free country where people can CHOOSE how to spend their dollars. Thank You MTA 12's for your attempt to stimulate the economy with your spending habits :)
10:29-First, I'm not a Thunder parent. Is it irrational to take a U-12 team to AZ? Maybe. If it was my child the biggest concern I would have would be to ask whether emotionally a 12 year old can hold up physhologically for the next five to six years now that the expectation of "showcasing" has begun. Take a kid on a trip like that at U-12, those parents had better have good parenting skills to keep their kids heads screwed on straight.
As far as criticising MTA for moving a group along rather quickly, it's none of our business what those parents decision is. It does sound like you're a bit jealous though!
me thinks that if it had been a DREV, TC Fire, etc... team they probably would have been applauded.
10:44's last line pretty much sums it all up IMO.
Everyone not at mta is a jealous hater. When their "recruiters" stand in the parking lot waiting for parents like ghouls to tell parents their kids present club is not good, they are bettering soccer along the lines of Dr. Jonas Salk finding a polio vaccine?
Nothing like something as simple as a young team traveling to a tournament to get the same folks riled up out there.......or does it have more to do with that team being from MTA.....?
10:48 and 11:39, you are both a little right but as my old grandpappy used to say "you reap what you sow"
I would like everyone on both sides of the hate MTA/not hate MTA to try and answer the questions I have asked. Seems very easy to answer if you believe in it or not. Check my posts again if you have forgotten. Anyone, SSM South, MA, SSmurf, #10s Dad?
If 12 is too young, what is the "correct" age to attend an out of state, high profile tournament? Just curious, Please assumme the team is a top 5 team in MN when you answer. Does it matter if it is a long drive or a fly in tournament?
Can you imagine the uproar there would have been on soccer blogs many years ago when the Bangu Stars and Woodbury Inferno began this practice of traveling at young ages? By now you would think people would be accustomed to it.
1053, it is stupid MYSA policy upheld by possessive people like you that prohibits contact with kids except for a few day window. What else do you expect recruiters to do? They are following policy that you support in fear. Worry about developing your own programs and retaining kids with quality rather than limiting the info they receive about other opportunities.
You want MA's thoughts you can find them on roadtoregionals.com in a few days I'm sure.
http://www.roadtoregionals.com/97-journal/
12:51, Mn has way less restrictive recruiting rules than our neighboring states, MYSA rules are submitted and voted on by the member clubs so if you don't like them, get off the blog and go advocate for the changes you desire. as to reading rtr if I wanted to read self aggrandizing drivel I would. Thanks none the less for the tip.
would like everyone on both sides of the hate MTA/not hate MTA to try and answer the questions I have asked. Seems very easy to answer if you believe in it or not. Check my posts again if you have forgotten. Anyone, SSM South, MA, SSmurf, #10s Dad?
Well since you do not end your post with a name to be known for, I have NO clue what posts are yours or what post you take credit for??
10s Dad
Sorry - just curious.
123, Ditto!!
yeah,Shattuck should get all the credit,they train everyday,prepare for a weekend game at the home field against teams that are not even in season,on top of that they recruit from all over.
8:52
8:52..training every day, more training sessions than games..Sounds like a great system to be able to call a true "Devolpement Academy Program" team. Isnt this the system that the powers that be want all DAP clubs and teams to do??
As for Recruiting, when MTA gets into the DAP, the kids and families will flock to the club. I know of players in Iowa that play for the Chicago Fire DAP, the KC Wiz DAP, players that do not live close to these DAP's are now starting to move to get involved with the DAP clubs. The landscape is changing. Maybe not tomorrow or next yr, but it will happen. The US Soccer is also thinking adding girls to the DAP format. And if MTA and SSM are the only 2 clubs in MN that are allowed to be in the DAP, where do you think the kids will try to attend?? DAP is the next best thing to be recruited by Natl Coaches, College Coaches, and even PDL, A-Leagues and MLS and hopefully WPS. Its not a league for everyone, and that is fine, but why cry a river if your not involved. The DAP system is a expensive league, but maybe you wont have to go to the CASL, Disney, Vegas's all with in months of each other?? It is changing, and for those that cry about ODP, well, here is the change, and its coming full speed.
10s Dad
hey 1:22, you're a complete idiot. tell me how a change to a recruiting can ever hope to pass in MYSA when the majority of clubs are afraid of the recruiting and loss of players? you don't like r2r, don't read it. I think the poster above is referring people there who question MA's motives.
Speaking of change and DAP, here is a piece that is starting to take shape in Seattle
http://www.examiner.com/x-413-Seattl...cer-in-Seattle
10s Dad
fyi the u12 girls blue MTA played my daughter who is a u14 so yes they have played two years up GIRLS and BOYS. they are a great team; if arizona is where they need to go to get competition then let it be.
Everyone just settle down. Obama was sworn in today.....everything was officially going in the "right direction" as of about noon today. All of your problems are going to be solved, so why worry about youth soccer?
Seriously though....the anon wants an answer to his/her questions. Fine. My thoughs are that it has no bearing on you, me, 10s Dad, SSmurf, Thomas, BanguMom, or anyone else. It is none of my business, so I have no opinion. If it were my kid, then maybe I'd ask some questions. BUT- when my kid becomes part of a TEAM....and that TEAM chooses to travel to a tournament, my player has a RESPONSIBILITY to take part. If I don't agree with the tournament selections or ANY other policy, then I'll vote with my feet and checkbook the following year. Simple as that. I can't believe this is even being discussed....
SSMSouthCampus
SSM - still missing the point (along with evreyone else it appears). I would like options on how this type of travel helps developmentally. An easy question - or so I thought.
just curious
umm maybe testing their skils against people that are just as good enough better maybe? playing teams that are better than you , makes you learn and want to work harder to be a better team.
MTA lost in the finals against dallas texans they are a lot better and really tested the girls skills for once i heard?
so i think that helps them develop.
if you cant find teams to play to help you develop , go elsewhere.
in this case AZ.
so there, an easy question.
answered:)
Don't forget about seeing teams that you aren't used to seeing, different types of play, different coaching styles. I know that 10s dad will disagree with me....but I don't see a problem with traveling this far. You have to "make a name" for yourself sometime. If you don't, you will struggle to get into the higher divisions of real-deal Showcase tournaments later. They are U12-- you have to have a reputation/record against tough competition before U15. I say do one, maybe two, of these types of tournaments a year (BUT ONLY IF YOU CAN BE COMPETITIVE).
SSMSouthCampus
6:30 - if it appears that everyone else is missing the point (your own words), might that tell you that there is no point to your question?
6:30 - there is this thing called jealousy??
they are extremley gifted U12 girls, their parents are willing to put the time and money, after being scouted by MTA. There is a reason why they got put on this team. because the game of soccer is their passion, their gift, their life. not because its what the parents what it to be, its becuase how they want it to be.
hmmmmmmm
720, Let's not get out of control now. Your post was a bit over the top. At 11 years old, very few of these kids would consider soccer thier "life". I would also predict that possibly as many as 30% of them will not be playing at U17 and above.
This is not to detract from the team, the kids, or anything. I get that the parents are just being supportive of what thier kids want to do right now. Just remember, things change, teams change, lives change-- support them now but be prepared to let it go when they want to.
7:20
Are you saying a U12 "child" has told their parents that soccer is their "life". I doubt it highly, in 4 years I would bet 50% of these kids will not be playing soccer.
I don't know about playing soccer but 50% of them will not be on this team.
642 which team are you speaking of? The U12 team lost in the semis 3-1 to Solar. They did not play the Texans in the finals. Was there another team in action?
If my eleven or twelve year old told me that soccer, a game, was their life, I would feel the need as a parent to sit them down for a long talk.
I would tell them that no matter how good they are and how much time they put into soccer, it is a 99.999% certainty that they would be done with the game when they were 22 - 23 years old, with at least 2/3 of their lifetime remaining.
What do you do when your "life" is over at 22?
I would then feel a serious obligation to expand their world. I would take them to museums, foreign countries, camping, whatever it took to make them realize the many splendors of this world.
my 12 year old daughter and her friends on her team told me soccer was their lives now they are all seniors on highschool soccer teams that went to state also all 5 of them have either full ride or some sort of scholarship to college for soccer?
so, its not crazy.
just some kids are born that way.
when they find their knack at a young age and really dedicate their life to it, the sport of soccer is what they base their life on.
I also have seen then u12 MTA blue girls play, they have the same passion if not more......
Again I ask, what do these girls do when their "life" is over at 22?
No, it's not crazy, but it IS bad parenting.
And you wonder why this country is all screwed up..........
MTA parents - what characters , gosh.
9:12- I'd like to think I'm raising my kids the right way, at least I hope I am, but you're saying other people indulge in "bad parenting"!!!!! Who in ---- do you think YOU are. And no, my kids don't play for MTA, but I do recognize when someone is terribly jealous. You don't belong on this forum, but on "the couch". Nutcase!
Nothing to be jealous of, so that's kind of weird conclusion.
Actually, my daughter does play for MTA, but that doesn't mean that soccer is her life.
Her life is her family, her education, her community, and her spirituality, but not soccer.
All of those things will stay with her long past her soccer career, whether she is fortunate to play until she is 30 or unfortunate enough to be injured at 18.
So, I'm a nutcase? Because I accuse parents who do not provide perspective for their children of being bad parents? Well, then I'm a nutcase. So be it.
I wonder, though, what I should tell my therapist on the couch. That I see more to life than soccer?
I might recommend that you read "Chalked Up" by former world champion gymnast Jennifer Sey. You will read about how gymnastics was her life, you will read about how she reached the ultimate level, world champion, by the time she was 17, and you will read about the years of depression she faced after her "life" was over.
Oh yeah, you will also read about how her mom encouraged her single minded devotion to her sport and how that contributed to her depression.
I do agree with you that I don't belong on this forum. When having perspective is insane, I am clearly in the wrong place.
Good luck.
my daughters life is based around soccer, wow im such a bad MTA parent. shame on me for giving my daughter what she told me she wants....
maybe your "well rounded" daughter is different?
just curious, looks a little outdated but it is from the horses mouth and I think that is what you're looking for.
http://www.roadtoregionals.com/youre-planning-on-taking-this-/
wow, its so sad how some parents get so worked up over MTA like if it was tc fire, woodbury, or something similar to them this would all be a different story.
sad?yes
true?yes
me thinks what is sadder is that there are too many posts that criticize what others do when it has absolutely no impact, effect, or should be of no concern to the person who is blogging........
7:51--agreed, to each his own.
LOL 7:51. Of course, you would never do that...
Nothing stirs threads like this more than others calling others idiots and bashing choices. I agree, to each their own. It would be nice if this blog made people sign in so at least there would be a chance of real debate.
11:11, thanks for the link.
I disagree with a team of any sport traveling via plane at U12 to play any sport. Im not blamming the parents, but the leader(s) of this group, the coach and club. U-12? Come on.
What do you do when these U12s are U16 and they go, hey, we have been here, done that, big deal. Its just another trip. Its not burn out, but in a way it is, its over kill.
I can remember when we were at this age and ALL the parents were all gun-ho, and we wanted to travel but our coach at the time shot it down traveling more than 2 states out via plane. Today, I understand. We didnt start traveling big time till U15 with Eclipse. At U12, the team needs to be learning how to play the game. There are more than enough teams that can give any u12 team a good game. Heck, call some teams in surrounding states and set up some friendlies. Travel down to Des Moines and do a Futsol tournament in the winter, Iowa has tournaments in the new ISU building all winter, in Iowa City inside the the Hawks dome, its a boarding state. Go over to Brookfield,WI, they have a really nice indoor with 3 fields that holds tournaments all thru out the winter. Again, the parents im sure are gun-ho, however its the coach that should be the leader since he/she has been in this racket for some time and SHOULD know not to abuse his/her authority. I bet that some of these u12 players wont even be on the same team in 5 yrs from now anyway.
10s Dad
10's Dad, nice post which is why there CAN BE two sides to this debate. Please see the attached link so you can understand where the coach is coming from. Not saying either side is right or wrong, I just get the sense you are open to seeing both sides. You may completely disagree, but I also sense you will respect his thoughts.
http://www.roadtoregionals.com/youre-planning-on-taking-this-/
10's dad has my vote for post of the year, well said if our true goal is development, your thoughts are true to that goal. Too much of our sport is prdicated on the ego needs of a few coaches and too many parents.
10s Dad, do you agree that MTA's goal is to produce teams that compete at regional and national events? If so, I think that "been there, done that" is a good thing at 16 as that leads to comfort in new surroundings that a team who is making their first plane trip won't feel.
Moreover, to your point about some of these players not even being with the MTA 12s in 5 years. Don't you think these players are getting a great soccer opportunity at a point in their careers when the CAN travel and compete? The experience is much more than just soccer. I would think you'd see that as I'm sure you're not spending $35,000 a year just for a sport.
943, you don't think playing against tough competition in January constitutes a development opportunity? You're joking, right? Sometimes coaches with so-called egos get the most from the kids they work with. They usually have an ego for a reason and people usually think they have an ego for the same reason - because they are successful and produce winners in soccer and in life.
11:13 Of course MTA and most other Super Clubs goal is to compete on a Natl level. Why do you think they are trying to get into the DAP? I disagree with you about 16 yr olds NOT feeling the excitment, the will to play hard, the excitment to play in front of scouts, I can go on and on with this subject. Let me ask you something, This is kinda way out there, but, Does a Sr in College ever get that comfort level when playing in the final four? I think NOT? Why the hurry?? There is NOTHING there for a 12 yr old that isnt there for a 15 yr old is all IM saying. At least 15 yr olds play 11v11 on a full size field.
The reason I said that about some players not being with the team in 5 yrs, sure, I stand by that. It happens to most teams. Look at the Eclipse team that won the Natl Championship in 2006, about 6 girls on that team are either not with Eclipse or even playing soccer anymore. Same thing at Shattuck, we have lost players. Didnt MTA loose a player to Woodbury? It happens. Sure, you can travel at U12, but by plane to a completely different region?? Like I said, WI and IA both have great events for 12 yr olds in the winter. Even KC has some as well. Are you going to go out and buy your child a Cell phone or
Wii,Playstation when they are 5 or are you going to wait till they are say, 10?? I think its a bit more important to get great soccer opportunities in the older part of the youth career. And yes, I do agree, the experience is much more than just soccer. I mean, whats next, taking the U13s next yr to Europe where the coach gets a free trip out of the deal??
This is what one of my players favorite coaches told her when she first made the Region II ODP team at u14..Congrates, however, the older you get, the harder it gets to stay on this team. Lets see how good you are when you are 18, 22 etc. How True!!
Who on earth is spending 35k for this sport a year?? Dont asnwer that cuz Im sure there are some that do.
I posted 11:44..Sorry for not ending with my name..
10s Dad
9:43..I dont care how big a ego a coach has, wait till these players are 17 and 18 and all the Drama going on with their lives and with one another. Lets see how important soccer is for all of them then, lets see if the whole team is all on the same page..Because I can tell you, they wont be. Jealousy, could care less attitudes, being in love, jobs, injuries, the list can go on and on.
10s Dad
10s Dad, I'll chime in here. You cannot hope to find the competition seen at the january Sereno event in at the same time of the year in IA or WI. 12 event in AZ was an 11v11 event, outdoors on grass. You saying that is similar to a futsol tournament in Iowa? And what if the team is already doing multiple futsol sessions all winter?
Why do you think ODP sends two teams of girls and boys to camp at the younger age groups. It's not to ID them. It's to get them comfortable so that in the coming years players can focus more on their play rather than on the trip itself.
And of course the team makeup is going to change down the line. I still hold to the point that the current incarnation of the team can compete now and the memories given to the girls on this particular team and this particular point in their lives is special. We can agree to disagree here.
10s dad, so you're daughter would not have enjoyed immensely a trip to Arizona in the middle of your Midwest winter to play soccer when she was 12?
1st of all, I have not said that my way is the right way, its just my take on it. Im not trying to come across as attacking anyone.
Yes my dd has been to the President Days tourny in AZ x2 yrs with her ODP team as well, However, I do not recall what age she was then. Ask her if she remembers anything about that trip to AZ when she was younger?? The answer to that will be, which one?? She can remember going to Disney at U15 and 16 alot more than she can going to AZ with ODP when she was younger.
As for playing outdoors during winter..Sure, that would be nice, wish we could year round now. Playing Futsol as you know Im sure, is touches on the ball, it is ALL it is. Futsol is not 11v11
but if your all about going and playing OTHER teams, then going to a state close by would work at U12. Menace does it all the time with Arsnel in Omaha. Eclipse does it with Hawks up in MI at the Hawks indoor place (been there). Menace does it with Shattuck, the list goes on.
Im assuming your one of the parents that went to AZ..in 5 yrs when your U17, come back to this site and read everything that your standing up for. I bet the outlook will have changed?? And ask your player if he or she remembers hanging out in the hallways at U12 and maybe going to the bumper cars after supper??
10s Dad
At the younger ages, families may combine mini-winter getaways with these soccer tournaments. i.e. take a few extra days to see the Grand Canyon when going to Sereno, go through Washington DC for the Jefferson Cup and/or the Hoover Dam when going to the Vegas Showcase. These are sites that some may not have seen otherwise. I completely agree that the players won't remember all of these games, but they will certainly remember the trips when they're older.
Drive 4-5 hours to play futsal in IA? You've got to be kidding right? Maybe we could all just schedule dental appointments instead.....
10' Dad -
Why do you care? Move on with your life and maybe stop worrying about what MTA 12's are doing. To each their own!
1154, Nice to hear from you Mark! I always thought bring two teams at ODP at the younger ages was about money!!!
I'm with 2:08. I would also like to add that if you think the wizard behind the curtain is not as wonderful and majestic as he appears, please don't pull back the curtain. Just go on with your life and leave us with our illusions.
Oh trust me, U12 Parent(s), Im NOT worrying about U12s in any state!! Been there, done that. To each their own! Cha$Ching$.
Someone asked, I put my 2 cents worth out there, and then we have yahoos like you that think Im trying to move in on your turf. As for the 4-5 hour drive, it takes 2.5 hrs from my driveway to get to Shattuck and a little bit over a 1/2 tank. Good try thou!!
I rest my case. I will leave it all up to others to debate it.
10s Dad
10's Dad-
I guess one could argue as to why you would send you child to Shattuck to play the game (and go to school)?? Why not send your kid to a public school and play for a CC?? It's all in how you see it...right?
2:42, Cool it on the hate filled posts. You are obviosly jealous and insecure about the choices you've made for your child.
251, In case you are not trying to be funny. What would I be jealous of?
10's dad makes some good points...if you choose to disagree, that's fine...looks like hate filled dung to me..If you are going to AZ to play serious soccer, then how serious can it be when you "wrap" the ol family vacation around it? What message is that sending?
Go to Arizona if YOU want, Don't go if YOU don't want to. WHO CARES!!!
Lets talk about something important like who is the best U-13 girls team. :) :) :)
Go to GotSoccer.com, they will tell you!!
Dakota Rev, MTA blue in that order
Dakota Rev, MTA blue in that order
Post a Comment