This post has certainly created a lot of interest and I will leave it open for a while longer. The MTA will be an interesting option. Please try to stay on topic.
137, Boy your hilarious!! Wings and Bangu did what every other large soccer out of State market has already done, they combined forces, enabling them to offer top level players a chance to compete against other top level teams from other states.
wings had one boys semi-finalist and one girl's semi-finalist at this year's state cup. i'm sure the best players made the top MTA team, but what were people anticipating.....50/50 splits? if one club had two semi-finalists and the other 14, wouldn't you tend to think that the club with 14 semi-finalists might have more of the better players?
I hear two very good Wings u 17s to be boys went to Westside. I spoke to a parent from Westside and he said they had a very good try out and picked up players they wanted earlier in the season,not just players that showed up. If hes right it will be interesting to see how they do,well coached and very organised but usually less talent,if they have upped the talent they will be a strong team.
1:58 it's you're if you intend to ridicule others, try to learn how to spell. You must have missed spelling lessons due to the high level training you were doing with the Goobers.
You guys hate on MTA yet you proliferate their brand name and identity in the soccer world. You don't like em? Don't fricking talk about them then and let everyone do what they all feel is best for their customers. Tryouts are done for another year. Why don't you all save up and mudsling next year when people once again begin shopping for clubs.
Speaking about next year's tryouts, I can't believe MYSA has let the tryout chaos get this far. They now have clubs holding tryouts early and willing to pay the slap on the wrist fine (EP) and clubs setting tryouts on state tourney rain out days (Woodbury) then trying to lock kids in with a 24 hour commitment policy. Are you kidding me MYSA? Are you guys blind? How is this good for soccer? You are FORCING clubs to break your stupid recruiting rules to talk to players by not allowing for a decent enough window when families CAN shop around and look for what may be best for them.
I suggest adopting an open recruiting window for the entire month of July, a two week tryout window, and a full one week signing period. No club is allowed to lock in players until Aug 15, or whenever. And MYSA's fall registration deadline of Aug 11? Do away with it and put the work in as needed to do away with the nightmare you've all let late July/early Aug turn in to.
And don't tell me to submit a fricking rule. Open your eyes, see what's going on and put your foot down - in the best interest of the game. Can you do that? I didn't think so.
How big was your bar tab, 12:35? They will secretly sign the form anyway, and this is not the English PL.
No matter what rule you put in, those clubs those that want to cheat will. I heard one club even had tryout forms that locked in the kid if selected. MYSA is worthless.
12 35am Another MTA Coach.Open recruiting in July,nice touch,dont respect that kids will be still playing for their team,its not about the kids though is it.
You guys are funny...Have any of you ever won anything in your lifetime at any level? Fantasy leagues don't count. Have a nice warm glass of milk and hit the sack early and you'll feel a lot better in the a.m.
10:10 you're another idiot. I had kids approached by MTA and by many other clubs as early as this summer. Recruiting rules are stupid, they only protect the clubs who don't put effort into your development by allowing them to lock in their players and limit options. It's so obvious that most competitive clubs don't adhere to these rules so modify them or do away with them. You cannot tell me that the current rules benefit players. Please try and explain and your support of this and you will only validate the first line of this post. Bring it. I relish debate with the ignorant. I really do.
4:23, what is 3:56's type? Someone that seems to spout fact and calls out current MYSA policy in favor of giving families unpressured choice about where they find their soccer development? Wow, who can blame you for not stooping to their level. You're obviously way above that. Way to go.
Listen all you knuckle heads.......how many times do you have to be told MINNESOTA DOES NOT DEVELOP REAL PLAYERS. It's stictly the consolidation of the best talent.
You as the parent are responsible for getting the development training for your kid. That includes advanced college training camps,personal coaches and trainers etc.
You the parent are responsible for college recruiting. The only thing clubs do is attend showcase tournaments. That's it. The rest is up to you.
Do not expect to get any help with recruiting from your club coach. He doesn't know what's going on at the college level and could do more harm than good in the recruiting process.
For the years 1991-1993 there were 16 young women who made the ODP regional pools - the most ever. Thank goodness their club coaches stayed out of the way of their development during their formative years.
4:03 - what would your standards or expectations be? The total pool count is less than 100 players and this would include the states of MI, OH North & South, IL, IN, MO, KS, etc... This would inlcude the major metropolitan areas of Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnatti, St. Louis, etc...
So once again, if there are 100 possible slots, how many should MN earn? Please respond back with a number.
Should we strive for more - of course and that goes without saying.
They are still in their formative years. The flaw in Bangu was coaching as if their formative years were over. Hopefully MTA will change that way of thinking.
Lots of discussion about development or lack there of.Just for the sake of discussion what do you folks think college recruiters are looking for when they are evaluating potential recruits?
Stupid people are so predictable. As they get more frustrated with thier child/players current crappy CC situation, and some who can't live with their player not making a MTA team, they feel better by striking out against the best thing that ever happened to MN youth soccer...Bangu.
Keep in coming loosers, we all enjoy you stupid, resentful and jealous comments!
Past formative year coaching? My son played on the Bangu U19s-BW United team this past summer. He said it was the best soccer experience he ever had and that the coach taught him more about the game that any previous coach.
6:27 with such a well thought out, respectful post it is hard to imagine why some would think that the people involved with MTA/Bangu are not the kind of people they want their kids surrounded by. I know several Bangu/MTA parents who, after reading your post, would beg you to get off their side.
You are entitled to your opinion as to what the "best thing to happen to MN youth soccer" is. You should be proud of your childs choice of clubs, but your post tells the story why so many have a distinct dislike for MTA/Bangu.
Thunder executive team please take note of the marketing mess you are creating for yourselves. People are learning to hate you because you have chosen to affiliate with one club, what are you thinking? you have a business to run and you are alienating a large majority of the soccer community for people representing you like 6:27 are. You need to unite the soccer community behind the pro team NOT divide it to the point that people associate the youth program with the pro team.
Let's see 7:23...I don't have any children. "Marketing mess"...what does that mean. More BS blather from someone who know little about anything. By "choice of clubs" I assume you mean, good enough to make the team? Too bad your's was not. "Alienating", by that you mean the largest turn out ever for Bangu teams at tryouts, including PSA, MU, Blackhawks, St. Croix, Burnsville and many other CC club prior year players? By "unite" you mean the mess that CC have made over the years with stupid rules, aimed a few successful clubs? Or do you mean the "player ownership" mentality that causes more grief than a republican convetion in liberal MN? Yeah, why would you want your kids to hang around successful people with integrity and drive? I'm sure your hope is that they will end up being a looser, just like you.
8:04, well said. I'm tired of the haters on here spouting nonsense as well but let's not fuel their stupid little fires with responses :) Without our "air" they'll burn out and be forgotten shortly thereafter. Let's all just instead focus on the players who have chosen our offered options and we'll all revisit this again come tryout time in 09 when things have played out a bit. We know what the club we've chosen will provide, we know the leadership, and we know why others will hate on us. It goes the same for pretty much all soccer families - live with and focus on the choices we make.
looser - def. "less tight", "more relaxed", ie. cc parent.
loser - def. "someone commonly on the losing side", ie. an intellectual nobody with poor spelling skills who tries to enjoy success through their kid's soccer club.
Ok, this post is going to be long, but its something to think about, Eclipse is setting the bar high. I know that PDA does something like this as well.
Eclipse is running a college scrimmage night in Oct for the U15-U17 players -- it is a scramble of kids -- all eclipse divided up onto different teams. Here are the colleges they have coming:
1. Carthage College 2. Baylor University 3. Eastern Kentucky University 4. Illinois State University 5. Northwestern University 6. Eastern Illinois University 7. Marquette University 8. University of Wisconsin- Parkside 9. University of Kentucky 10. Valparaiso University 11. Loyola University 12. DePaul University 13. Rutgers University 14. University of Pittsburgh 15. Clemson University 16. University of Dayton 17. University of Illinois 18. Washington University-St. Louis 19. Ferris State 20. University of Wisconsin- Milwaukee 21. University of Tennessee 22. St. Louis University 23. University of Wisconsin 24. University of Michigan 25. University of Miami- Florida 26. University of Louisville 27. Auburn University 28. Miami Ohio 29. Southern Illinois- Edwardsville 30. Creighton University 31. University of Texas 32. University of Iowa 33. Florida State University 34. Santa Clara University 35. Villanova University 36. University of Connecticut 37. Purdue University 38. University of Portland 39. Upper Iowa University 40. Southeast Missouri State 41. University of Indianapolis 42. UNC-Charlotte 43. Northern Illinois University 44. University of Colorado 45. Denver University
11:23 - not a bad list once you weed out the "directional" schools and the local colleges, there are some folks making an effort to get there, but let's face it that club (and a PDA out of NJ) have sizable advantages. One, location (or location, location, location). Two, their clubs have much geater talent than anything not just around here, but in most parts of the country. You are talking about two of the top 4 ranked clubs in the US with Eclips alone having 4 national champs. For that to happen here it would almost have to be a joint effort amongst clubs to create a large enough talent pool to justify the travel expenses of the coaches. With the top kids now signing as juniors it's not a bad idea to get ahead of the curve.
Anon 11:23- That's a good list and great idea. Lucky for IL players that this event does not take place during their high school season. The equivalent event in MN would have to take place during the holidays, dead of winter, or early spring. Unfortunately, those time periods often conflict with State Cup and out of state college showcases. I believe that MN's fall high school season complicates the showcasing process.
I dont believe in HighSchool Soccer, however, I think Fall HS Soccer is better than Spring. At least if you play it in the Fall, you can still get ready for State Cup etc in the spring.
This is the 2nd year in a row that Eclipse has had this College Recruiting weekend. That is some great contacts those club coaches have with college coaches I would say...
this type of thing could never happen in minnesota, eclipse as a club is the best girls club in the country, most of those girls will play in college and they can do something like that, in minnesota we are lucky if 3 girls go to lay D1 soccer somewhere other than minnesota, NDSU, SDSU, or Wisc. why would those schools waste their time coming here, if you think your kid is that good then spend the money and get her on that eclipse team and travel there for practice and games its been done before from minnesota kids, cullen boys player from burnsville played for chicago wind and eventually got some national team time, but very very few are that good
The new breed of select clubs are like the Obama ticket. Bringing change to the scene backed by substance and energy, a new needed voice and option in a mediocre market.
Certain CCs fighting this change are like McCain. Slamming Obama for lack of experience and citing that we should give their reforming party 4 more years of recognition as the end all be all of soccer development. Trying to preach that they can bring change themselves, distancing themselves from the Bush-like CC model of the last 8 years, when all they really have to offer is... well, Sarah Palin.
lmao!!!! Nice post. Too bad people can't laugh at stuff more. Didn't take long for Stupid Republican haters to respond. Just a reality check that there are haters in every walk of life.
Hey, I tune in here to read what morons write about soccer (I'm a hater who's kid got cut let's get that out of the way now) If I wanted to hear or read morons talking politics I'd tune into talk radio. Let's stay on point bashing and promoting MTA.
Super Team bashers will always whine when the topic comes up. Somehow everyone feels sorry for the one or two kids cut at the bottom of a team, but they still feel obligated to lock a vastly superior player to a mediocre team.
Super teams make for super games all around. The best game is against another team at the same level.
The more balanced levels, the better. I support super teams and filling community teams with those spots left open by one or two stars in the league.
Super teams? what @#$%%^ planet are you living on? Getting a few of the best players in an age group, pounding a few local teams, winning State Cuup 1-0 losing quckly at regions is not a superteam. Get your head out of the sand kool-aid mix for a second.
Many "haters" are those who left the club, not that their kid got cut. Other "haters" are those families who were smart enough not to join in the first place. If things were so great with MTA, why do they so quickly have to try to defend themselves?
The fact is MN teams have as good or better a record at regions the last few years than any state other than IL and MI. People who launch their venom here seem to forget that. And yes if you want to single the MTA teams out the record is even better. But ignorance is bliss as 236 shows.
252 if MTA was so obviously on the wrong track why do some constantly criticize them? If they are so wrong in their approach and can't show any results they will slowly fade away. That doesn't show signs of happening any time soon.
255 I decided to do a check and it turns out you are right. U13-U18 at regionals last 2 years:
MTA 18-10-1 Indiana 13-15-8 Missouri 21-11-4 Ohio South 17-15-4
Picked these because they are generally regarded by other region 2 states as having the strongest teams at regionals along with MN after Illinois and Michigan.
Congratulations 323 by throwing that statement out there it appears 335 is conceding that MTA has been quite successful at the regional level. Are they as high level a club as Eclipse or Michigan Hawks? No, but they are right there with anyone else in the region.
Until Bangu began pushing the envelope a few years ago Minnesota teams were happy to score a goal at regionals. As poster 3:23 noted Bangu/MTA has a 18-10-1 record at regions the last 2 years. And btw...they have won 8 Minnesota State Cup championships in each of the last 2 years. When other clubs can top that accomplishment then they have the right to bash MTA. Unril then it's nothing but whining.
MIAC fan, you need to check some FACTS. There are many regional champs and at least one national champion going back in the past 20 -25 years. Big clue, soccer existed and in fact thrived here in Minnesota before the advent of rabid gooberism.
Awe, don't bust their bubble they live in! They believe they have supreme coaching powers. What they have is a proven track record of consolidating good players and winning some games.
Thanks for that helpful info 808. If MN was so competitive back then, all the more power to MTA as they look to try and get our state back to it's old time "glory". For something has definitely been lacking in the interim as most other region 2 states have stepped up their competitiveness while we've regressed (until Bangu and now MTA came about).
B. S. I and most others are tired of the dual argument that goes along the line Bangu is the best... When they are not the best at an age group the line changes to "see how they have raised the level of soccer here." The landscape changed in all youth sports in the past 15 years and soccer changed too. The clubs here would have, and did change in spite of the start of Bangu Get over yourselves soon.
Disagree 8:48. The majority of community soccer clubs in Minnesota changed BECAUSE of what Bangu (mainly) and other true soccer clubs have been doing. These clubs attempted to bring talent together and clubs like yours reacted and changed primarily in order to keep talent around. Moreover, though people like you will never see it, clubs saw success and wanted to emulate it. Nothing wrong with this and this has occurred in every other state as well. I'm not Bangu-happy as other clubs have also paved the way for MTA over the years. Get over community club mentality soon.
I have to weigh in here, sorry to you 11:04 Mn has produced 2 national champions both before Bangu was a pimple on the soccer landscape. Stop trying to take credit for that which you have done nothing.
Youth soccer as a whole has advanced in Minnesota and all of the other states over the past several years. It would have advanced without MTA but some associated with that club believe it deserves most or all of the credit for moving things along. wrong.
1:11 - with all the changes in youth soccer nationally, talking about national champs from the early 90's is like talking about the gopher football glory days. The national landscape has evolved 180 degrees from when the BHawks and BNSVL(?) played.
1:45 you make my point well, Soccer changed and did/would have here with or without Bangu. Also, if Bangu had either of those National Champions we would hear about it non stop. How about you let us know how far back in history we can go, then we can cut out most of the crap from Bangu recruiters regarding State cup. One year? Two? Also funny that Manny and some of the Thunder guys were on the Blackhawks team that won, The MTA boys use that as evidence their organization can do elite soccer, you say it's meaningless as it was so long ago, Which is it?
111 the Gophers also won multiple national championships in football before anyone threw a forward pass. Your statement has about as much relevance to the current soccer landscape as that does to football today.
2:07 is a bit clueless and trying to prove a point that 99% of soccer coaching professionals know holds little salt. Must be an old school Burnsville or Hawks guy. Of course the soccer landscape has changed. The issue is that it, by your own logic mind you, has changed more rapidly for the better in most other states besides MN as we had apparent national champs back then and haven't even come close again - until Bangu/MTA came around to address that. Tell me, did you always help prove the opposition's viewpoint on your high school debate team?
7:16 i dont know how you can say that blackhawks and valley boys teams from the mid 80's to the mid 90's were some of the best boys teams in the country with blackhawks winning a national championship in there, both were at the top of country when those two got together there was more talent on the field then any two boys teams in the last 10 years could have even dreamed of putting out there at one time, if anything bangu has tried to consolidate the talent and had failed compared to what those two teams from minnesota both did for a decade and bangu hasnt been able to do it on the boys side ever, are they still very good? no question about it, are they one of the best teams in the country? far from it
1pms : with all due respect you guys are clueless and refuse to see what is right there in front of you. Boards and coaching directors won't admit it, they cry foul to MYSA about Bangu/Wings/MTA all the while watching the elite club websites in order to match programming. Think I'm wrong? Why are so many clubs having tryouts early, like Bangu? Why have many clubs heavily promoting year round training offerings, like Bangu? Why are clubs scrambling to offer FIT training and structured futsol, like Bangu? Why are clubs looking to MRL over MN Premier leagues, like Bangu? Why have so many "Academy" programs sprung up, like Bangu? Why are so many clubs proliferating their websites with team success pictures, like Bangu? The road to all of this has been paved by the elite clubs. I'm really surprised more clubs haven't gone to training uniforms, training balls, and 92-93 years formatting for their team names, like Bangu. It's all right in front of you if you want to see it and the sport is better off for it. Should Bangu take credit for inventing all of this? Heck no as certain clubs have done certain things the same. However none have put the complete package together, like Bangu. Moreover they've done the most with it and much to some of your utter disgust have been a key factor in raising the level of the MN game. I guess I must be MA.
Our "lowly cc" and many others have been training year 'round for many years(yes, even before Bangu). The difference still is that Bangu gathers the talent made by the ccs. When the ccs become willing to gather talent ala Bangu the landscape will be the same throughout. In fact, when/if ccs get the stomach to behave like Bangu(as far as gathering players) they will crush Bangu due to the fact most clubs have better coaching club wide than Bangu does.
i would love to know the name of this "lowly cc". are there some larger "cc's" with good coaches and year round programs - of course there are, but not many. i also think it's a crock to call these "cc's" as the larger ones try to recruit and gather talent no differently than MTA/SCV/BHWKS, etc.....
10:39, true that many clubs had older premier teams training year round. No club had organized year round training as teams for the younger kids until Bangu did it. Clubs might have had once a week winter clinics but I don't think you'd call that the same thing as the model Bangu had. Please correct me if I'm wrong about your lowly cc. Also offer up the name to substantiate your claim.
Also to think the the landscape will even out if CCs open their doors and start recruiting players is not realistic. Maybe if a club like Mpls or Blackhawks did it they could attempt to consolidate talent in a central location, but to think that now SCV or EP would be able to do it in this day and age is hopeful at best.
Thank goodness for Bangu that they saved the sport of youth soccer. I wonder if they take credit for all the other youth sports that have evolved to year-round training too. All those athletic associations were probably clueless and pathetic and took their cue from Bangu and decided to start training more. They were probably jealous of what Bangu was doing and started copying.
Code for "cash cow" but they do get to wear the nifty uniform and most importantly, mom and dad get to say "my child plays for Bangu" They may even get a chance to train with a parent coach while the blue team is in the building. My heart would flutter too!
Nice circular debate. In my opinion, which is totally unbiased....
Bangu has done much to further soccer in MN. Mostly due to roviding pressure on cc's to provide as close a comparable product for the players, thus enabling them to "keep" players on thier rosters.
Also, cc's have done a lot for the progression of soccer in MN by reacting to the pressures put on them by the "competition (MTA)". They provide a home for players to develop and gain skills/confidence that are close to home. They are moving SOME players to a level where they want more, and the players go out and look for a different situation which better suits them. Some will stay, some will go. THIER CHOICE.
Each has a role in the progress in MN soccer. Arguing is much more fun....but the truth is somewhere in the middle.
SSMSC I read or heard somewhere that Iowa is trying to form a central major club. Is that the case? A tougher trick there as there is no single central metro area.
The #1 priority to improve MN soccer at the national level is to develop a program to train our coaches. Bring in a couple of proven national coaches to train our coaches. The A,B license etc is a bunch of crap. Once our coaches get the training maybe they can start developing PLAYERS.
Exactly 1012, our teams are now as successful on the national stage as any state other than the much more populous ones such as Texas, Illinois, California, Michigan etc. Kudos to Bangu, Wings, SCV and a few others for bringing this about. We will never be as successful across the board as the big states but we are doing well, particularly on the girls side, with what we have.
I actually talked to a DOC in the Des Moines area, and he felt as though the merger in the Eastern part of the State was not a real threat to anyone. I think he is right, in one sense. The merger will not effect those players in the DSM market (for the most part). Most players/parents don't have the commitment level to drive thier kids over an hour to join this merged entity.
However, here is where he is wrong in my opinion. Mergers are what are desperately needed in Iowa. To make it on the Regional/National stage, we cannot have our talent watered down between 6 clubs within the DSM "metro" area. My child has played on a State "power" here in Iowa...and has played on the Woodbury Springbok team in MN. I would say that the Springbok team would have a very good chance against the Iowa State Cup Champion for the age group. I WANT TO BE VERY, VERY CLEAR that I mean no slight to the Springbok team at all-- I absolutely love the players/parents/coaches. That being said, I think it has been pretty well established where Springbok fits into the MN soccer scene at U16. This is unacceptable as an Iowan. Our State Cup Champions are the absolute punching bag of the rest of the Region (with the possible exception of the West Des Moines Heat at U17).
Consolidation, even as battered a subject as it has been on this blog, is a positive thing. It allows a better chance at being competitive with the more populous States. Consider a MN small high school playing the largest high school. You simply don't have the kids to choose from to be competitive. Exceptions occur (like in the movie Hoosiers)-- but rarely.
In the absence of the ability to consolidate, one must go out and try to find the talent needed from outside. There are two different models being tried in MN right now, and time will tell who is more successful. MTA is trying to consolidate the talent by offering strong teams. SSM is "outsourcing" for talent-- which seems to work at the older ages.
And might I add that both approaches (MTA and SSM) seem to be the target of much anger. I don't understand this at all. All they are trying to do is give players an opportunity to compete at a higher level.
Yes, it probably is true that the true underlying motivations are money based. However, the players benefit if the experiments work. If some money is made along the way, who cares? If you aren't willing to pay the bill....don't participate. I would venture a guess that the main goal of every organization is profitability-- but to get this you first have to be successful. And, in the sports market, being successful equals wins. So, why hate on either MTA or SSM? Just vote with your wallet and don't take part?
I, for one, would love to see what plan those CCs have in place for accomplishing something for thier players (regardless of the true end goal/motivation). Especially those CCs who are represented so vehemently by the MTA/SSM hater parents.....
In an obvious effort to give the perception of equality to MTA, Tonka and EP have sent their U14 girls to MRL this fall. The teams went a combined 0-6, with a grand total of 0 goals for and 24 against this first weekend. Good thinking guys. Clear illustration that Wayne H has no clue about regional competition.
As has been noted previously, playing MRL is an expensive delusion for MTA or any other club UNLESS it is MRL Premier level. Otherwise, the competition is the same in MN, but the travel costs and time commitment are much greater.
If it makes the parents feel more exclusive or elite, buy in (emphasis on buy). The soccer won't be noticeably better, but the poor sportsmanship and whiny on-field behavior from your DD due to the entitlement she feels from regional play you will impress the college coaches.
Make the Inferno, EP 16's, the MTA Blue team, or go to SSM. If yiu don't make those teams, save your money and play in MN for a lower pressure, more fun, less delusional experience.
6:33 I have no problem with your MTA biased scorn towards those teams playing MRL and losing a couple games, but be sure to point that hateful venom at your own Bangu Blue team that went 0-8-2 in the lowly MYSA premier league. Typical Bangu double standard and others wonder why some of you are disliked.
8:40 - Are Tonka and EP playing up an age group too in MRL like the ex-Bangu team you are highlighting did in the MN Prem league? Apples to oranges though you are reaching to bash something you don't like. Take issue with something else if you wish as this line of thought makes you look like a fool.
keep track and laugh.I would like to see the name of that sad,sad person. This blog is ok but really should have names on posts,its too easy to take cheap shots here and too many sad adults doing so. I have a hunch that a lot of overweight people post here,especially the posters who cut down people,yep,me thinks lots of fat moms and dads with small weeners.
Had some cocktails and munchies last night with some parents of MTA highschoolers on my daughters h.s. team. Not one word out of any of them about college recruiting. THEY are seniors. At last years parents get together these same parents were bragging about how excited they were for their daughters about to receive a flurry of contacts from division 1 coaches. One year later, last night, not a peep. It is over for them. Interesting, how two non MTA juniors, players which play for a lowly CC have been "flooded" with over a dozen letters and visit requests from some pretty decent D-1 programs. I didn't want to embarass these MTA parents as my daughter was one of the two that has received the visit requests. I only post this here to illustrate that you don't need MTA to get your daughter recruited. Maybe it won't work out as well as the initial flurry, but the fact is you have to be able to play soccer, not just wear the powder blue!
Nobody would sincerely post something as moronic as 1022. Particularly about acquaintances. Someone trying to say supid things to make others look bad again.
6:05, huh? And 7:45, I'm afraid you're incorrect. I believe the was a very sincere post albeit moronic. Some people just can't help it, goes for people on both sides of this argument. No one has cornered the market on passionate idiots who believe in the product they buy or the program they participate in. In my experience passion many times leads to a blind eye for others' perspectives. The rest of us are either sick of all of it or very entertained.
Anyone hear about the fall DOC meeting? Heard the guy who got fired from WDB couldn't leave without bringing up MTA. Did anything productive get done before that? Wasn't there going to be talk about recruiting, tryouts, ODP, etc? Hopefully it wasn't just an MTA bash session. There has to be a DOC on this blog who can fill all us common people in. Maybe we'll have to wait for the MYSA minutes to be posted. Yeah, right...
6:33 Seems to miss the point, those teams, same as MTA/Bangu, do the MRL to find and play good competition in order to improve as a team. Focusing on results of league play after a weekend is short sighted. We all need to support the improvement of soccer regardless of the club in which the kids play.
No one really is interested in "bashing" MTA. There are issues clubs have with MTA leadership, ethics, and behavior. It is telling that you assumed the DOC meeting was a "MTA bash session". Complete and utter self absorption-incredible!
224, I don't think the poster said it WAS a bash session, just hoped it wasn't. Your post drips with scorn.
Since you seem to have been there why not enlighten us all as to what the issues that you and your colleagues raised. Or is this a DOC thing that the rest of us shouldn't be privy to? Facts from one who attended would be nice in the face of all the misinterpretation prevalent on this site.
The Bangu posters ripping on Tonka and EP in MRL, There is the evidence of Bangu types denigrating other clubs. Now let's hear fron MTA leadership that there is no bashing of other clubs.
Quick summary of the DOC meeting: -Overview of MYSA programs, including lengthy discussions of ODP and coaching education offerings. -Presentation on PACT -Presentation on TOP Soccer Breakout sessions: -Minimal licensing standards for coaches (long discussion of whether there should be a waiver available for those who want to skip the E in favor of the D). -Tournaments: Challenges and benefits of hosting tournaments. -Fall competitive: What role does it play in development? -U9/U10 Evaluations/Tryouts - Are they necessary?
All of this ate up basically 90% of the meeting. When the MTA issue was raised, there was very pronounced interest from those present (other than the 1 MTA representative) for a supplemental meeting to discuss the issue of MTA in MYSA. Perhaps the most surprising part of the whole meeting was the statement from Candace Daley (MYSA) that on three documented occasions in the past 6 weeks the Thunder/MTA have used the mailing list for the entire membership provided to them under their sponsorship agreement with MYSA (which expired last week)to recruit players to their program.
The Thunder/MTA were warned by MYSA after the first two occasions and apparently MYSA has resorted to legal action after the third violation. It left many us there wondering what would happen to any other MYSA club after three consecutive violations of this nature (if we were inclined to behave in such a way, which no one, to my knowledge, is)?. On the other hand, as a club president, I was very disappointed to hear that this sort of thing is going on. I had hoped that MTA would be a positive addition to our soccer community, but this revelation confirms what lots of people write on here about the Bangu/MTA leaders, and it's a shame that they have chosen to start this venture, which has so much potential, with a series of serious rules violations. In response to the entry above that started this discussion, the vast majority of the local clubs expressed an interest in being updated on this situation. There was no MTA bashing by the guy who brought it up or any of the MYSA personnel or other clubs, but this was clearly a point of interest and I think most of the clubs will want to continue to be updated on this situation.
I am pretty sure that is because MTA has a far superior IT department than MYSA does and they are able to secretly filter out all know blog posters and not include them on any such electronic communications that may cause such distress on the contractual agreements between parties.....The secret is out...now you know where all that money goes.
8:31 I am glad you see the reality that the MTA venture has "so much potential".
I suspect you instruct your tournament director to go to the MYSA website and mass e-mail all of the contacts posted on the MYSA website about your upcoming tournaments? What's the difference?
There is clearly an agenda on the part of MYSA to disassociate with MTA. Keep worrying about petty issues such as this and spend less time building your program to develop soccer players. I'm sure you know where that will lead you.
"I suspect you instruct your tournament director to go to the MYSA website and mass e-mail all of the contacts posted on the MYSA website about your upcoming tournaments? What's the difference? "
You've got to be pretty dull to not see the difference in promoting a tournament and using the list for recruiting purposes.
If I can offer up a suggestion. Why don't you email the powers that be at the Thunder and have a discussion with them, man to man, rather than putting all your marbles in the words of an Exec Dir who has made it evidently clear that she has been personally affronted by the Thunder group. There may be two sides to the story or even some misinterpretation. That is, of course, unless you refuse to question the great omniscient soccer brain of youth soccer in this state.
They're pretty good guys. I'm sure they'll be very helpful to anyone approaching in the spirit of dialogue and improvement of the sport of soccer in MN.
I had a kid registered within MYSA and I have not recieved any recruiting letters/emails from MTA either. How about we start a roll-call to see who on this blog have been contacted "illegally" by MTA?
Sounds like there were atleast 2 people whose names on the MYSA rosters weren't contacted? Others?
The e-mail sent in the south was an exercise in destruction of the english language. I met that guy once, I thought he was english thus would assume he could handle the language. I trashed the e-mail.
U8-U12 Dedicated and devoted soccer players wanted!
Recently the Bangu Tsunami South Academy merged with theMinnesota Thunder Professional Soccer team to form the Minnesota ThunderAcademy South Juniors (MTAS Juniors) program. Since the academy's inception two years ago, we haveexperienced tremendous success in developing young soccer players that havegone onto play for the top age group teams in the state. Currently, over 25 of our formerplayers have gone on to play on one of the top two teams of the EliteDevelopment program (i.e. MTA U15Blue, U15 White, U15, *U15 Green, U14 Blue, U14 white, and this years U13 Blueand White teams).
Is your community club offering what you want? We can offer an incredible experiencefor players who are committed and dedicated players that want year-roundtraining, professional coaching, and a competitive training environment. All of the MTA South Junior coacheshold a high license and provide a structured environment that focusesspecifically on individual technical training and small-sided game development.
I cordially invite you to participate in a model trainingsession with no strings attached. We are extremely confident that we can offer a developmental experiencethat is custom tailored to the soccer player that wants to get more out of thegame. If this sounds like a childof yours, please contact me and we can further discuss in detail what it takesto get started.
Sincerely,
Anthony Bidwell
MTA South Juniors Director _______________________________ Don't you hate it when someone calls your bluff?
OK, that's pretty bad. Small wonder people, including MYSA, are angry. Who did that go out to? Who is this guy? The only good news is that it's so hard to follow grammatically that people were probably too put off to respond...What's a "childof"?
What the heck? Let me see if I understand this: Bangu(now MTA)used an e-mail list given to the Thunder by MYSA as part of their partnership (presumably so that the Thunder could try to get kids and families out to Thunder games, NOT to join their new youth club)to e-mail kids in other clubs after tryouts in most of those communities? That's crap and any idiot on here who spouts off in the other direction is trying to deflect the much deserved grief they are getting for a series of poor ethical choices. I am sure that if MYSA is working with their legal representatives, they are at their wits' end with these people as well.
What kind of sexist jackass are you? Candace Daley is personally affronted by MTA, so you want club presidents to have a "man to man" discussion with Thunder leaders? Your PR department is failing a bit, mate. You seem to have forgotten that the Thunder made their own bed in choosing to join Bangu, right? The deafening silence after the call for more clubs to join (other than a Wings club that has been sucked to the point of anemia by PSA - that was surrender, not marriage), no one showed any interest. They've now driven off the state organization as well. Is this what the noble Thunder leaders had in mind? It's all hilarious to me. The best part is that the sawed off MTA types keep writing in here as if somehow people will begin to like them if they insult everyone enough. Good luck with the venture, lads!
We also got the e-mail. I am just befuddled that anyone would try to deny this is going on. Own the behavior and live with the reputation, as it clearly won't change anytime soon.
The Mysa rules are fairly clear, once a player has signed and paid a club they are committed for the year Recruiting by e-mail or otherwise is no longer ok. Excusing it or finding a loophole is not ok either. The idea of following the spirit of the rules is how honorable people conduct their lives, business and personal. Goes to the essential question, do you want your kids around people of honor or is winning by bending rules, acting in an unethical way, what you want modeled for your kids?
here we go, 11:46 wants to excuse it because others may have had transgressions. Just say it is a violation, don't do it again as we expect more from our clubs and move on.
My family received that e-mail, too. Isn't is remarkable how all of the MTA big mouths go quiet when their e-mail is posted? It has to suck to believe that you can just browbeat people into shutting up and continue to do whatever you want to do, and then all of the sudden it's right there for everyone to see. I hope people are reading this strand to see what this freak show is really all about.
Who cares if Thunder try to recruit players 24/7 365 days or any other club for that matter. What matter is that if your club offer players what they want they will not leave. Since MYSA have the none transfer rule (except if you transfer to a team in a higher league) maybe they should have a transfer window in the middle of the winter this would allow unhappy players to leave if they are not happy with what is being offered. Would also put pressure on clubs to provide what they promise. Have only heard of one player who was not released by her club since I got involved in youth soccer in MN and that was wrong by the club. As a result the player sat out a year wonder who benefitted from that, bottom line is let players play where they want and if you offer what they want you want have to worry about it. To hide behind rules because your product is not good enough will never work in the long run.
The coach in question has recently "resigned" from his post as South Director. Looks like MTA may have more ethics than all you louts want to believe. Moreover if we're all to be judged by the actions of one coach in our club we'd all be in big trouble.
lmao! THAT'S what has the DOCs up in arms? Are you kidding me?!?!?! You should all be grateful that idiotic email was sent out. What are you guys crying about? Who is going to want to go play for that guy? He's doing your work for you.
Though I will also say better to have one renegade coach than a whole board and coaching director who support illegal tryouts and are happy to pay a fine along the way. Why aren't you cry babies looking at EP and what they did this past summer that MYSA glossed over? Oh, I forgot, they don't win. And MYSA is going to try and make an issue from this email? Like that hypocritical bunch of bs is going to float.
Any time these guys get pinned down regarding their behavior, they try to deflect it by bringing up the behavior of others. Very juvenile and more evidence of a lack of character.
What kind of imbecile are you??!! One coach??!! Have you done a background check on the rest of your MTA coaches??!! If it were just one coach, I would be relieved, and in case you left your rose-colored glasses in the car, this has happened three times that have been documented (in just a few weeks), and the goobies have been doing this for years. Unbelievable.
2:22 My guess is that the "three times" comes from this same email being reported on three occasions.
I can tell you that in going over the recruuiting rules for all the State Associations, there would not be more than two or three that this would be in violation in. It is a general email, not "Molly-- we want you to come and plaly for us".
That being said, it does go against the written and spirit of the rules in MN. So, it was wrong.
I assume that the reason I didn't get this email is because it is obviously addressed to the U8-U12 ages.
The email is very benign, I can't believe that MYSA acted on it for any reason other than there was pressure to do so from parents who took offense. These things happen all the time, but mostly people turn thier heads to it.
Hey, Pollyanna. If you don't want your kid subject to that kind of strong-arm pressurized recruiting-- how about you delete the email before they see it?
Bunch of whiners. What next? It is unfair that they wear blue t-shirts on the sidelines. I think they are recruiting.
I have seen many adds in Soccer Times for tryouts. Would that not be considered recruiting? Same thing if you ask me. One is in a newspaper and one is in an email..... both you have to read!
4:26 I think the MYSA rule on recruiting is subject to the timing of the alleged recruiting. I think (not 100% sure) that the recruiting can't take place after a player is committed to team for the current or upcoming season. I also believe ads on papers are ok because they are not targeted to any individual. An email is sent to a personal address so is therefore considered targeted, an ad is avalible for anyone reading that paper to respond to if they choose to respond. Active vs passive exposure.
I also think the issue is the use of the email list which was allowed by MYSA to be used by the Thunder for promotion of the Thunder and Lightning games. It is a priviliged list not avalible to other clubs who may want to use it for recruiting also. Since the Thunder organization got into the youth soccer business, competing against other local clubs they get no special consideration or email lists than does any other club.
Do any of you know what the MINNESOTA RULES ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT THIS? I think not? Here, let me post it here for you to read, since no one is ambitous enough to look it up.
Minnesota Youth Soccer Rules Manual Section 1.3.4.1 Players Bound to Member Club
b. The open period for registered players who are considering playing for any Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member in the following season begins on August 1 of each year (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament-whichever is later). blah, blah, blah, blah........ Advertisements, emails, or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations, or other similar events by any Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE AUGUST 1 RESTRICTION. blah, blah, blah.....Recruiting a player who is bound to a club is also prohibited."
Now, let's break this down. 1) You can't have tryouts before August 1st.
2) Advertisements, emails, or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations, or other SIMILAR EVENTS are not subject to the August 1 restriction.
3) Recruiting a player who is bound is a no-no.
Statement 1 has not been broken.
Statement 2 applies here and there is nothing wrong with an email for events similar to tryouts being held after August 1.
Statement 3 was not broken because a SPECIFIC player was not targeted.
I see no rules broken here...with the possible exception of using an MYSA supplied email list. This is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than recruiting violations.
Sorry, but the proof is in front of you, folks. If you take the time to look.
Do any of you know what the MINNESOTA RULES ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT THIS? I think not? Here, let me post it here for you to read, since no one is ambitous enough to look it up.
Minnesota Youth Soccer Rules Manual Section 1.3.4.1 Players Bound to Member Club
b. The open period for registered players who are considering playing for any Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member in the following season begins on August 1 of each year (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament-whichever is later). blah, blah, blah, blah........ Advertisements, emails, or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations, or other similar events by any Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE AUGUST 1 RESTRICTION. blah, blah, blah.....Recruiting a player who is bound to a club is also prohibited."
Now, let's break this down. 1) You can't have tryouts before August 1st.
2) Advertisements, emails, or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations, or other SIMILAR EVENTS are not subject to the August 1 restriction.
3) Recruiting a player who is bound is a no-no.
Statement 1 has not been broken.
Statement 2 applies here and there is nothing wrong with an email for events similar to tryouts being held after August 1.
Statement 3 was not broken because a SPECIFIC player was not targeted.
I see no rules broken here...with the possible exception of using an MYSA supplied email list. This is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than recruiting violations.
Sorry, but the proof is in front of you, folks. If you take the time to look.
A specific player was targeted. An email sent to a specific address targeting that individual.
The laws and rules around this type of mailings will continue to be debated as the unique nature of the internets ability to "touch" so many people ,free of charge, with the push of a button make this means of "selling" so powerful. I would bet that is why MYSA is so peeved at MTA for alegedly abusing the email list they were given access to.
Wrong SSM. Statement 3 was broken. The e-mail was indiscriminitely sent to players who were bound to a club. It was sent to specific home e-mail addresses a clear violation. No wiggle room here. Worse is the manner in which the e-mail addresses were gotten then used. There is no possible way they did not understand the ethical implications.
Exactly 6:20. Pissed of CC people up in arms against the elite. It's a simple truth no matter how the haters spin it. Easy to rally here against MTA when there are more rules broken by CCs than by MTA each year. Pitiful but many of the haters here are clueless when it comes to competition standards outside of MN. Mediocre MN governed by certain mediocre MYSA people.
The issue here for me is that MTA used the e-mail list unethically. The list wasn't available to other clubs to use for the same purpose. Using the e-mail list as MTA did is a VERY different thing than taking out an ad for tryouts in the soccer news. If one can't draw the distinction there you are quite ignorant.
It's my understanding MTA is having some problems filling up some of the MTS rosters. They are afraid some of the players which came to tryouts will not have enough teammates to fill certain rosters. Please, if this is not true, would someone from MTA correct me?
8:51 - Speaking of ignorant, did it ever cross your mind that maybe the recipients of this ridiculous email might have been obtained through the public team contact emails listed on the MYSA site? 9:12 - You might get a quicker answer if you contact the Thunder Directors directly.
If you can't have ethics, then fall back on calling yourself elite, and call everyone else naive about your need to toss aside ethics so you can be competitive outside MN (that's not going very well, either, is it?!). Rules violations by CC's? Who are you kidding? You have the market cornered there, pal. Throw in a shot at MYSA and you're ready to crawl back in your hole and sleep. You got caught red-handed, and no bashing of others will help you look any better than the no-class jerks that you are.
SSM: Well, it's nice of you to offer to sit in judgement of others regarding rules (pricelessly funny), but I think we'll opt for a more respectable arbiter (maybe Belichek is available).
10:41PM who are YOU kidding that there is FAR more unethical behavior in CCs than can be found in MTA? You're blind. You think handcuffing families and denying them choice and options for their children is ethical? You think all the recruiting by CCs is somehow justified because you're not an "elite" club? You think the actions of MYSA against the Thunder in the last year hold some iota of ethics? Your ethical youth sports world is a pipe dream. People are in this for themselves or for their kids mainly and with that being the driving force of decision making, ethics are going to be tough to come by.
I'm obviously not claiming all CCs and all MTA-types hold themselves to poor ethical standards but if you want to preach ethics don't come around here. Maybe tough for you to see this point through hater filters. :)
10:41- I get really tired of people assuming that what others say is true without checking facts. Sorry for marginalizing your complaint with FACTS and RULES. As for respectable, you don't know me....don't pass judgement. I am only sharing an outside view of the RULES (since obviously you don't feel the need to search the truth out yourself).
5:11- How do you feel that this email violates Statement 3? The exact line from the MYSA Rules SPELL OUT emails as exempt from the August 1 date. If an email isn't sent to a specific email address.....is it really an email? It is clearly outlined as exempt specifically.
Stop following the herd and inform yourselves. You can look these rules up at:
While you're there, I'd ask you to start with Rule 1.3.1 a. on Page 14. That will explain some of your SSM complaints.
Then move to Rule 5 on page 30 where you'll find the rest of your SSM issues covered (specifically from last year's U18 teams- and this year's U16s).
Once that is cleared up, the Rule in question currently is 1.3.4 b. which starts at the bottom of page 15 and continues to page 16.
And, since I know someone will bash me for this information....please note how lucky you are that we aren't at a game. Otherwise, you'd be subject to rule 8.2.2.7 (pg 40) and be in biiiiiig trouble!
SSMSouthCampus
Look, I want to be clear here-- I am not passing judgment. I AM saying that under the WRITTEN RULES (not something my neighbor John said his sister heard was true) there was no rule broken.
I do think that there is something to be said about using email lists for activities other than they were provided for.
I have a specific home address and I received soccer times in the mail... is that targeting a specific person? NO! Nor is the email that went out (supposedly). I see no difference in the communication. MYSA does not own my child! Who cares who got an email!!
In the future don't be surprised if more clubs start to go the EP route where they hold "camps" during June/July during which the focus is on evaluation (players are ranked by age) and team placement for the upcoming new year. If you've ever been to one of their actual posted tryouts you would then know why only a handful of returning players actually show up to tryout. Don't call them tryouts as that would be wrong since they all occur before 8/1, so we'll just come up with another name.
Personally, I do not have a problem with what EP does or what MTA South did. Oftentimes, rules are put in place by the powers to be not to improve but to impede. It is easier to hold someone (or something) back than it is to catch up.
7:30 It was more focused on the Thunder using a privileged email list, that was made avalible to them exclusively for purposes of promoting Thunder and Lightning games. When they (Thunder) decided to be a competing youth soccer club they were told that they were not permitted to use this email list to promote the MTA. If you remember they also stated emphatically that they were a seperate entity operating independently from the professional team. remember, they want to have nonprofit tax status etc. By the way good luck with that one if they are indeed comingling staff and resourses. The IRS will have a field day with that one.
In general this whole discussion is an idication of the disconnect the MTA has created in the soccer community. The Thunder blew it on this one, If you aren't a MTA player you now associate the pro team with the team you compete against in league. In other words the Thunder has created an adversarial relationship with the entire youth soccer community. From the perspective of marketing the MN Thunder pro team this program (MTA) is a big swing and a miss.
They may be able to field good youth teams, but by no means are they creating a unified soccer community which is what they need (the pro team) . The MN Thunder just alienated about 90% of the soccer families in MN by choosing sides with one and only one club, the former Bangu clubs.
8:43am - you seem to be pretty much in the know. The use of the privileged mailing list by the Thunder, is that a known fact that can be substantiated, an allegation, supposition, etc... Also, it would appear that an email went out to some families in the south for a few younger ages. Is this the extent of everything this discussion is revolving around?
8:42- Come on. 90%? Get real. MTA accounts for more than 10% of the players. Not to mention that not all of the non-MTA families are as provincial as you.
8:50 There are 80,000 kids involved in Mn. youth soccer. You think there are 8000 or more at MTA? Go back to school better yet, come down from the Kool-aid high in a soccer reality detox center.
I find it quite amazing that there are people on here who are incapable of saying it was a misuse of the mailing list to use it to promote the youth soccer program by MTA. Further to say this guy did this on his own, laughable, I doubt that he acted alone based on his writing ability alone. This blind loyalty or obedience is not healthy for you.
I was reading your post with some interest until I saw "hater" in there. It makes life so much easier to be able to know that goobers are willing to tag themselves in this way. Thanks for not wasting any more of my time and good luck with future rules violations.
Rules are for little people. Elite status especially when self described, frees you from ethical consideration. You do what you want, blame others and claim victim status.
Who has the proof that he actually received the e-mail list from MYSA? We are registered with MYSA and I don't ever recall getting an e-mail from the Thunder/Lightning on any upcoming games or events. I have gotten an e-mail from the Thunder promoting their camps as we have attended one in the past and did provide my e-mail during the registration process.
Said former director also had interests in other soccer circles in the metro area that could have provided him with e-mail addresses as well.
We all know the intentions of the e-mail and this will go on long after this incident has died down. It is what it is, but for MYSA to threaten legal proceedings against the Thunder for using "their" list doesn't hold much water.
There may be some fine print somewhere in the MYSA/Thunder agreement that says so, but again, tough to prove they were actually provided the list exclusively from MYSA. So why bring it up at a DOC meeting? What is the real intent?
This sounds like little children trying to steer blame to someone else when caught doing wrong. Why would MYSA lie about this? The repercussions for doing so would be rough. Every time MTA does something like this they (and their supporters) play Philidelphia lawyer and explain away their actions. Are you trying to justify this stuff in your own mind? Others know what goes down. We aren't all repeating idle gossip as you try to assert. You got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Don't embarrass yourselves further arguing semantics and your opinion of what "legal" is. I won't even say any thing more of the ethical side of all this.
I've read many of these posts. MTA asserts that CCs treat players like they own them. I'm sure MTA wants committed players to stay with them for the season as well. For me I know of no case in our club where a player has ever been denied a release that wanted one. I agree that players and families have the freedom to go where they feel their child is best served. A wild west mentality isn't good for anyone however. There has to be a governing body with some rules. Clubs should want to follow the rules of it's body. You have opportunities to propose/change rules every year. And, I am not a kid got cut or hater although my daughter is a high level player.
Were you there? There was a groundswell of support for discussing this issue after it was brought up, and pretending that you are shocked that anyone is interested tempts one to direct you to the above post (1:11): No denying or wiggling or trying to shift attention or blame MYSA or hollaring at others in here will get you anywhere. Quit embarrassing yourselves...or don't, I guess, this is great publicity against your organization. The truth really does hurt for you blokes, eh?
U8-U12 Dedicated and devoted soccer players wanted!
Recently the Bangu Tsunami South Academy merged with theMinnesota Thunder Professional Soccer team to form the Minnesota ThunderAcademy South Juniors (MTAS Juniors) program. Since the academy's inception two years ago, we haveexperienced tremendous success in developing young soccer players that havegone onto play for the top age group teams in the state. Currently, over 25 of our formerplayers have gone on to play on one of the top two teams of the EliteDevelopment program (i.e. MTA U15Blue, U15 White, U15, *U15 Green, U14 Blue, U14 white, and this years U13 Blueand White teams).
Is your community club offering what you want? We can offer an incredible experiencefor players who are committed and dedicated players that want year-roundtraining, professional coaching, and a competitive training environment. All of the MTA South Junior coacheshold a high license and provide a structured environment that focusesspecifically on individual technical training and small-sided game development.
I cordially invite you to participate in a model trainingsession with no strings attached. We are extremely confident that we can offer a developmental experiencethat is custom tailored to the soccer player that wants to get more out of thegame. If this sounds like a childof yours, please contact me and we can further discuss in detail what it takesto get started.
Goes back to the idea of having your children around people of honor. Do you want them around guys who continually chose which rules they like or don't like? There is a need to do the right thing in life which includes soccer.
Actually 1:11 & 1:20, the 1:02 post does raise an important question. Do you know for a fact that the information used came from the MYSA data? If so and confirmed - then guilty as charged. If not, then this is purely conjecture. It is easy to make the assumption (and we all know the saying about assuming) that the information came from there, but there are lots of ways to come up with that information (previous tryouts, other camps - Footholde/Thunder, etc...). How many people was this mailed to and what was the target audience?
It would appear that contacting players after they might have committed elsewhere was done which is wrong, but I guess you can just put me in the column that needs more documented proof. I'm not a MTA parent (nor do I play one on TV...), just a lawyer.
The Club President see 8:31/09SEP post stated this: "Perhaps the most surprising part of the whole meeting was the statement from Candace Daley (MYSA) that on three documented occasions in the past 6 weeks the Thunder/MTA have used the mailing list for the entire membership provided to them under their sponsorship agreement with MYSA (which expired last week)to recruit players to their program.
The Thunder/MTA were warned by MYSA after the first two occasions and apparently MYSA has resorted to legal action after the third violation. It left many us there wondering what would happen to any other MYSA club after three consecutive violations of this nature (if we were inclined to behave in such a way, which no one, to my knowledge, is)?. On the other hand, as a club president, I was very disappointed to hear that this sort of thing is going on. I had hoped that MTA would be a positive addition to our soccer community, but this revelation confirms what lots of people write on here about the Bangu/MTA leaders, and it's a shame that they have chosen to start this venture, which has so much potential, with a series of serious rules violations. In response to the entry above that started this discussion, the vast majority of the local clubs expressed an interest in being updated on this situation. There was no MTA bashing by the guy who brought it up or any of the MYSA personnel or other clubs, but this was clearly a point of interest and I think most of the clubs will want to continue to be updated on this situation."
They accusations are clear in the first paragraph, now prove to all on this blog that the accused violated ANY rules pertaining to youth soccer in our fine state governed by the MYSA rules.
It may or may not have been a violation of the contract between MYSA and the Thunder. If they can prove it, fine, hang me. They can't and they won't.
Again, what is the point to bring it up at a DOC meeting let alone this blog? Is it information that every DOC needs to know? They all know recruiting goes on and this certainly won't stop it. Comments such as these from the club president can be only be taken with slanderous intent.
If they had used the MYSA mailing list for the entire membership even when filtered down to 8-12 year olds in specific geographical areas wouldn't there have been hundreds if not thousands of these sent out?
Did MTA admit to the original two stated occurences?
So let me get this straight. You were reading the post from 11:56PM with interest UNTIL you found out they were supposedly a goober. Then, based on that revelation, the post content lost all credibility for you, unable as you were to grasp the concept that a goober might be talking some sense. Typical.
Let's not bach clubs who lost MRL games last weekend....we have our first two games this coming weekend. I'd rather see how we do before I speak ill of those who did not tally points last weekend.
Not feeling overly confident as we will see our team (with new players) on the field for the first real challenge Saturday. Trial by fire, baby. Trial by fire!
I, for one, am anxious for the SSM U16s to get into the schedule and play some quality teams to get them some experience. Not much else for a U16 club team to do in the Minnesota Fall.
Games are against NSA Premier Storm and Chicago Fire Jrs.
9:52 Give it time. They'll pile up more heinous errors and bad judgement and spew gas at all who oppose them and it'll all pan out to be the same as before, so keep your chin up! It's a nice little irony that the moobers want to scream slander when someone comes in here and posts moober e-mails. Are you going to sue yourselves over this? Who would we pull for in that one?!! Seriously, I think it's important to thank the moobers for their undying willingness to come in here and argue like idiots and insult the masses (in both word and deed) so that the rest of us get a good laugh. Cheers.
Well said 1:46 I especially enjoyed watching the 14 Premier league games last summer. I was laughing hysterically when my daughter's lowly, inferior CC team took two wins from the East superteam. I love to laugh.
ANON 151- The fact that a U13 team was able to hang with your daughter's older team doesn't say much about the program she is in. Also that is not a Superteam.
0-8-2 is hanging with? Wow! Those are some goober colored glasses you are wearing. And in fact, you must not remember all the hype about that team after tryouts last year.
1,754 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1401 – 1600 of 1754 Newer› Newest»137, Boy your hilarious!! Wings and Bangu did what every other large soccer out of State market has already done, they combined forces, enabling them to offer top level players a chance to compete against other top level teams from other states.
wings had one boys semi-finalist and one girl's semi-finalist at this year's state cup. i'm sure the best players made the top MTA team, but what were people anticipating.....50/50 splits? if one club had two semi-finalists and the other 14, wouldn't you tend to think that the club with 14 semi-finalists might have more of the better players?
I hear two very good Wings u 17s to be boys went to Westside.
I spoke to a parent from Westside and he said they had a very good try out and picked up players they wanted earlier in the season,not just players that showed up.
If hes right it will be interesting to see how they do,well coached and very organised but usually less talent,if they have upped the talent they will be a strong team.
1:58 it's you're if you intend to ridicule others, try to learn how to spell. You must have missed spelling lessons due to the high level training you were doing with the Goobers.
anom 1 58,heavy on the word "market"must be a coach from mta
You guys hate on MTA yet you proliferate their brand name and identity in the soccer world. You don't like em? Don't fricking talk about them then and let everyone do what they all feel is best for their customers. Tryouts are done for another year. Why don't you all save up and mudsling next year when people once again begin shopping for clubs.
Speaking about next year's tryouts, I can't believe MYSA has let the tryout chaos get this far. They now have clubs holding tryouts early and willing to pay the slap on the wrist fine (EP) and clubs setting tryouts on state tourney rain out days (Woodbury) then trying to lock kids in with a 24 hour commitment policy. Are you kidding me MYSA? Are you guys blind? How is this good for soccer? You are FORCING clubs to break your stupid recruiting rules to talk to players by not allowing for a decent enough window when families CAN shop around and look for what may be best for them.
I suggest adopting an open recruiting window for the entire month of July, a two week tryout window, and a full one week signing period. No club is allowed to lock in players until Aug 15, or whenever. And MYSA's fall registration deadline of Aug 11? Do away with it and put the work in as needed to do away with the nightmare you've all let late July/early Aug turn in to.
And don't tell me to submit a fricking rule. Open your eyes, see what's going on and put your foot down - in the best interest of the game. Can you do that? I didn't think so.
How big was your bar tab, 12:35? They will secretly sign the form anyway, and this is not the English PL.
No matter what rule you put in, those clubs those that want to cheat will. I heard one club even had tryout forms that locked in the kid if selected. MYSA is worthless.
12 35am
Another MTA Coach.Open recruiting in July,nice touch,dont respect that kids will be still playing for their team,its not about the kids though is it.
You guys are funny...Have any of you ever won anything in your lifetime at any level? Fantasy leagues don't count. Have a nice warm glass of milk and hit the sack early and you'll feel a lot better in the a.m.
10:10 you're another idiot. I had kids approached by MTA and by many other clubs as early as this summer. Recruiting rules are stupid, they only protect the clubs who don't put effort into your development by allowing them to lock in their players and limit options. It's so obvious that most competitive clubs don't adhere to these rules so modify them or do away with them. You cannot tell me that the current rules benefit players. Please try and explain and your support of this and you will only validate the first line of this post. Bring it. I relish debate with the ignorant. I really do.
3 56,I dont stoop so low as to debate with your type on an anom blog site,grow up.
4:23, what is 3:56's type? Someone that seems to spout fact and calls out current MYSA policy in favor of giving families unpressured choice about where they find their soccer development? Wow, who can blame you for not stooping to their level. You're obviously way above that. Way to go.
356ma
Listen all you knuckle heads.......how many times do you have to be told MINNESOTA DOES NOT DEVELOP REAL PLAYERS. It's stictly the consolidation of the best talent.
You as the parent are responsible for getting the development training for your kid. That includes advanced college training camps,personal coaches and trainers etc.
You the parent are responsible for college recruiting. The only thing clubs do is attend showcase tournaments. That's it. The rest is up to you.
Do not expect to get any help with recruiting from your club coach. He doesn't know what's going on at the college level and could do more harm than good in the recruiting process.
ouch 11:58.....bad experience somewhere along the way????
For the years 1991-1993 there were 16 young women who made the ODP regional pools - the most ever. Thank goodness their club coaches stayed out of the way of their development during their formative years.
16 for three years...5 per year. That's Minnesota mediocrity.Guess it all depends on what your standards are.
4:03 - what would your standards or expectations be? The total pool count is less than 100 players and this would include the states of MI, OH North & South, IL, IN, MO, KS, etc... This would inlcude the major metropolitan areas of Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnatti, St. Louis, etc...
So once again, if there are 100 possible slots, how many should MN earn? Please respond back with a number.
Should we strive for more - of course and that goes without saying.
8/8 2:37 pm
They are still in their formative years. The flaw in Bangu was coaching as if their formative years were over. Hopefully MTA will change that way of thinking.
Lots of discussion about development or lack there of.Just for the sake of discussion what do you folks think college recruiters are looking for when they are evaluating potential recruits?
Are you a college recruiter?
8:44, According to the guys at MTA college recruiters only look at MTA formerly Bangu players. If you do not play there, you'll be out of luck.
1:35 - there's a pot that hasn't been stirred in a while.....
Stupid people are so predictable. As they get more frustrated with thier child/players current crappy CC situation, and some who can't live with their player not making a MTA team, they feel better by striking out against the best thing that ever happened to MN youth soccer...Bangu.
Keep in coming loosers, we all enjoy you stupid, resentful and jealous comments!
Past formative year coaching? My son played on the Bangu U19s-BW United team this past summer. He said it was the best soccer experience he ever had and that the coach taught him more about the game that any previous coach.
6:27 with such a well thought out, respectful post it is hard to imagine why some would think that the people involved with MTA/Bangu are not the kind of people they want their kids surrounded by.
I know several Bangu/MTA parents who, after reading your post, would beg you to get off their side.
You are entitled to your opinion as to what the "best thing to happen to MN youth soccer" is. You should be proud of your childs choice of clubs, but your post tells the story why so many have a distinct dislike for MTA/Bangu.
Thunder executive team please take note of the marketing mess you are creating for yourselves. People are learning to hate you because you have chosen to affiliate with one club, what are you thinking? you have a business to run and you are alienating a large majority of the soccer community for people representing you like 6:27 are. You need to unite the soccer community behind the pro team NOT divide it to the point that people associate the youth program with the pro team.
Let's see 7:23...I don't have any children. "Marketing mess"...what does that mean. More BS blather from someone who know little about anything. By "choice of clubs" I assume you mean, good enough to make the team? Too bad your's was not. "Alienating", by that you mean the largest turn out ever for Bangu teams at tryouts, including PSA, MU, Blackhawks, St. Croix, Burnsville and many other CC club prior year players? By "unite" you mean the mess that CC have made over the years with stupid rules, aimed a few successful clubs? Or do you mean the "player ownership" mentality that causes more grief than a republican convetion in liberal MN? Yeah, why would you want your kids to hang around successful people with integrity and drive? I'm sure your hope is that they will end up being a looser, just like you.
8:04, well said. I'm tired of the haters on here spouting nonsense as well but let's not fuel their stupid little fires with responses :) Without our "air" they'll burn out and be forgotten shortly thereafter. Let's all just instead focus on the players who have chosen our offered options and we'll all revisit this again come tryout time in 09 when things have played out a bit. We know what the club we've chosen will provide, we know the leadership, and we know why others will hate on us. It goes the same for pretty much all soccer families - live with and focus on the choices we make.
can someone explain what "loosers" means,its been used more than once around here{ha ha!}
looser - def. "less tight", "more relaxed", ie. cc parent.
loser - def. "someone commonly on the losing side", ie. an intellectual nobody with poor spelling skills who tries to enjoy success through their kid's soccer club.
looks like 6:23 had to respond to his own request from last night.....
Or as commonly used in blogs to extend to oo or ooo or oooo sound in looooser. Childish, just like correcting someones spelling.
Integrity is not one of Bangu's standards. It is laughable if someone thinks so.
Anon 9:03,
It's easy to throw around comments like you just did.
Can you provide a specific example?
Ok, this post is going to be long, but its something to think about, Eclipse is setting the bar high. I know that PDA does something like this as well.
Eclipse is running a college scrimmage night in Oct for the U15-U17 players
-- it is a scramble of kids -- all eclipse divided up onto different teams.
Here are the colleges they have coming:
1. Carthage College
2. Baylor University
3. Eastern Kentucky University
4. Illinois State University
5. Northwestern University
6. Eastern Illinois University
7. Marquette University
8. University of Wisconsin- Parkside
9. University of Kentucky
10. Valparaiso University
11. Loyola University
12. DePaul University
13. Rutgers University
14. University of Pittsburgh
15. Clemson University
16. University of Dayton
17. University of Illinois
18. Washington University-St. Louis
19. Ferris State
20. University of Wisconsin- Milwaukee
21. University of Tennessee
22. St. Louis University
23. University of Wisconsin
24. University of Michigan
25. University of Miami- Florida
26. University of Louisville
27. Auburn University
28. Miami Ohio
29. Southern Illinois- Edwardsville
30. Creighton University
31. University of Texas
32. University of Iowa
33. Florida State University
34. Santa Clara University
35. Villanova University
36. University of Connecticut
37. Purdue University
38. University of Portland
39. Upper Iowa University
40. Southeast Missouri State
41. University of Indianapolis
42. UNC-Charlotte
43. Northern Illinois University
44. University of Colorado
45. Denver University
Childish - def. "behaving in the manner of a child", ie. including the phrase "sorry your kid did not make MTA" in every post.
11:23 - not a bad list once you weed out the "directional" schools and the local colleges, there are some folks making an effort to get there, but let's face it that club (and a PDA out of NJ) have sizable advantages. One, location (or location, location, location). Two, their clubs have much geater talent than anything not just around here, but in most parts of the country. You are talking about two of the top 4 ranked clubs in the US with Eclips alone having 4 national champs. For that to happen here it would almost have to be a joint effort amongst clubs to create a large enough talent pool to justify the travel expenses of the coaches. With the top kids now signing as juniors it's not a bad idea to get ahead of the curve.
I disagree with any club having more talent than does MN.
Anon 11:23-
That's a good list and great idea.
Lucky for IL players that this event does not take place during their high school season.
The equivalent event in MN would have to take place during the holidays, dead of winter, or early spring.
Unfortunately, those time periods often conflict with State Cup and out of state college showcases.
I believe that MN's fall high school season complicates the showcasing process.
I dont believe in HighSchool Soccer, however, I think Fall HS Soccer is better than Spring. At least if you play it in the Fall, you can still get ready for State Cup etc in the spring.
This is the 2nd year in a row that Eclipse has had this College Recruiting weekend. That is some great contacts those club coaches have with college coaches I would say...
this type of thing could never happen in minnesota, eclipse as a club is the best girls club in the country, most of those girls will play in college and they can do something like that, in minnesota we are lucky if 3 girls go to lay D1 soccer somewhere other than minnesota, NDSU, SDSU, or Wisc. why would those schools waste their time coming here, if you think your kid is that good then spend the money and get her on that eclipse team and travel there for practice and games its been done before from minnesota kids, cullen boys player from burnsville played for chicago wind and eventually got some national team time, but very very few are that good
The new breed of select clubs are like the Obama ticket. Bringing change to the scene backed by substance and energy, a new needed voice and option in a mediocre market.
Certain CCs fighting this change are like McCain. Slamming Obama for lack of experience and citing that we should give their reforming party 4 more years of recognition as the end all be all of soccer development. Trying to preach that they can bring change themselves, distancing themselves from the Bush-like CC model of the last 8 years, when all they really have to offer is... well, Sarah Palin.
I must be MA.
10:19 you bring e new kind of embarrassment to the loony left - nicely done
lmao!!!! Nice post. Too bad people can't laugh at stuff more. Didn't take long for Stupid Republican haters to respond. Just a reality check that there are haters in every walk of life.
Hey, I tune in here to read what morons write about soccer (I'm a hater who's kid got cut let's get that out of the way now) If I wanted to hear or read morons talking politics I'd tune into talk radio. Let's stay on point bashing and promoting MTA.
1216, nicely said.
12:16 - why should you hate MTA because your kid got cut?
1019, There is already enough politics in soccer please keep Presidential politics out. Thanks!!
Super Team bashers will always whine when the topic comes up. Somehow everyone feels sorry for the one or two kids cut at the bottom of a team, but they still feel obligated to lock a vastly superior player to a mediocre team.
Super teams make for super games all around. The best game is against another team at the same level.
The more balanced levels, the better. I support super teams and filling community teams with those spots left open by one or two stars in the league.
Super teams? what @#$%%^ planet are you living on? Getting a few of the best players in an age group, pounding a few local teams, winning State Cuup 1-0 losing quckly at regions is not a superteam. Get your head out of the sand kool-aid mix for a second.
Another hater strikes again in their oh so sly way.
Many "haters" are those who left the club, not that their kid got cut. Other "haters" are those families who were smart enough not to join in the first place. If things were so great with MTA, why do they so quickly have to try to defend themselves?
The fact is MN teams have as good or better a record at regions the last few years than any state other than IL and MI. People who launch their venom here seem to forget that. And yes if you want to single the MTA teams out the record is even better. But ignorance is bliss as 236 shows.
252 if MTA was so obviously on the wrong track why do some constantly criticize them? If they are so wrong in their approach and can't show any results they will slowly fade away. That doesn't show signs of happening any time soon.
255 I decided to do a check and it turns out you are right. U13-U18 at regionals last 2 years:
MTA 18-10-1
Indiana 13-15-8
Missouri 21-11-4
Ohio South 17-15-4
Picked these because they are generally regarded by other region 2 states as having the strongest teams at regionals along with MN after Illinois and Michigan.
Out of curiousity, what is MN's record at nationals over that same period? How many of these wins are from Bangu/MTA?
Congratulations 323 by throwing that statement out there it appears 335 is conceding that MTA has been quite successful at the regional level. Are they as high level a club as Eclipse or Michigan Hawks? No, but they are right there with anyone else in the region.
Until Bangu began pushing the envelope a few years ago Minnesota teams were happy to score a goal at regionals.
As poster 3:23 noted Bangu/MTA has a 18-10-1 record at regions the last 2 years.
And btw...they have won 8 Minnesota State Cup championships in each of the last 2 years.
When other clubs can top that accomplishment then they have the right to bash MTA. Unril then it's nothing but whining.
MIAC fan, you need to check some FACTS. There are many regional champs and at least one national champion going back in the past 20 -25 years. Big clue, soccer existed and in fact thrived here in Minnesota before the advent of rabid gooberism.
Awe, don't bust their bubble they live in! They believe they have supreme coaching powers. What they have is a proven track record of consolidating good players and winning some games.
Thanks for that helpful info 808. If MN was so competitive back then, all the more power to MTA as they look to try and get our state back to it's old time "glory". For something has definitely been lacking in the interim as most other region 2 states have stepped up their competitiveness while we've regressed (until Bangu and now MTA came about).
B. S. I and most others are tired of the dual argument that goes along the line Bangu is the best... When they are not the best at an age group the line changes to "see how they have raised the level of soccer here." The landscape changed in all youth sports in the past 15 years and soccer changed too. The clubs here would have, and did change in spite of the start of Bangu Get over yourselves soon.
M(T)A
Disagree 8:48. The majority of community soccer clubs in Minnesota changed BECAUSE of what Bangu (mainly) and other true soccer clubs have been doing. These clubs attempted to bring talent together and clubs like yours reacted and changed primarily in order to keep talent around. Moreover, though people like you will never see it, clubs saw success and wanted to emulate it. Nothing wrong with this and this has occurred in every other state as well. I'm not Bangu-happy as other clubs have also paved the way for MTA over the years. Get over community club mentality soon.
I have to weigh in here, sorry to you 11:04 Mn has produced 2 national champions both before Bangu was a pimple on the soccer landscape. Stop trying to take credit for that which you have done nothing.
Youth soccer as a whole has advanced in Minnesota and all of the other states over the past several years. It would have advanced without MTA but some associated with that club believe it deserves most or all of the credit for moving things along. wrong.
1:11 - with all the changes in youth soccer nationally, talking about national champs from the early 90's is like talking about the gopher football glory days. The national landscape has evolved 180 degrees from when the BHawks and BNSVL(?) played.
1:45 you make my point well, Soccer changed and did/would have here with or without Bangu. Also, if Bangu had either of those National Champions we would hear about it non stop. How about you let us know how far back in history we can go, then we can cut out most of the crap from Bangu recruiters regarding State cup. One year? Two? Also funny that Manny and some of the Thunder guys were on the Blackhawks team that won, The MTA boys use that as evidence their organization can do elite soccer, you say it's meaningless as it was so long ago, Which is it?
did someone hit a bit of a nerve....
111 the Gophers also won multiple national championships in football before anyone threw a forward pass. Your statement has about as much relevance to the current soccer landscape as that does to football today.
2:07 is a bit clueless and trying to prove a point that 99% of soccer coaching professionals know holds little salt. Must be an old school Burnsville or Hawks guy. Of course the soccer landscape has changed. The issue is that it, by your own logic mind you, has changed more rapidly for the better in most other states besides MN as we had apparent national champs back then and haven't even come close again - until Bangu/MTA came around to address that. Tell me, did you always help prove the opposition's viewpoint on your high school debate team?
I think the point is that we were not even competitive at regions until Bangu, and also SCV and Wings, came along.
7:16 i dont know how you can say that blackhawks and valley boys teams from the mid 80's to the mid 90's were some of the best boys teams in the country with blackhawks winning a national championship in there, both were at the top of country when those two got together there was more talent on the field then any two boys teams in the last 10 years could have even dreamed of putting out there at one time, if anything bangu has tried to consolidate the talent and had failed compared to what those two teams from minnesota both did for a decade and bangu hasnt been able to do it on the boys side ever, are they still very good? no question about it, are they one of the best teams in the country? far from it
1pms : with all due respect you guys are clueless and refuse to see what is right there in front of you. Boards and coaching directors won't admit it, they cry foul to MYSA about Bangu/Wings/MTA all the while watching the elite club websites in order to match programming. Think I'm wrong? Why are so many clubs having tryouts early, like Bangu? Why have many clubs heavily promoting year round training offerings, like Bangu? Why are clubs scrambling to offer FIT training and structured futsol, like Bangu? Why are clubs looking to MRL over MN Premier leagues, like Bangu? Why have so many "Academy" programs sprung up, like Bangu? Why are so many clubs proliferating their websites with team success pictures, like Bangu? The road to all of this has been paved by the elite clubs. I'm really surprised more clubs haven't gone to training uniforms, training balls, and 92-93 years formatting for their team names, like Bangu. It's all right in front of you if you want to see it and the sport is better off for it. Should Bangu take credit for inventing all of this? Heck no as certain clubs have done certain things the same. However none have put the complete package together, like Bangu. Moreover they've done the most with it and much to some of your utter disgust have been a key factor in raising the level of the MN game. I guess I must be MA.
Our "lowly cc" and many others have been training year 'round for many years(yes, even before Bangu). The difference still is that Bangu gathers the talent made by the ccs. When the ccs become willing to gather talent ala Bangu the landscape will be the same throughout. In fact, when/if ccs get the stomach to behave like Bangu(as far as gathering players) they will crush Bangu due to the fact most clubs have better coaching club wide than Bangu does.
i would love to know the name of this "lowly cc". are there some larger "cc's" with good coaches and year round programs - of course there are, but not many. i also think it's a crock to call these "cc's" as the larger ones try to recruit and gather talent no differently than MTA/SCV/BHWKS, etc.....
10:39, true that many clubs had older premier teams training year round. No club had organized year round training as teams for the younger kids until Bangu did it. Clubs might have had once a week winter clinics but I don't think you'd call that the same thing as the model Bangu had. Please correct me if I'm wrong about your lowly cc. Also offer up the name to substantiate your claim.
Also to think the the landscape will even out if CCs open their doors and start recruiting players is not realistic. Maybe if a club like Mpls or Blackhawks did it they could attempt to consolidate talent in a central location, but to think that now SCV or EP would be able to do it in this day and age is hopeful at best.
Thank goodness for Bangu that they saved the sport of youth soccer. I wonder if they take credit for all the other youth sports that have evolved to year-round training too. All those athletic associations were probably clueless and pathetic and took their cue from Bangu and decided to start training more. They were probably jealous of what Bangu was doing and started copying.
Right on. Well said 320! Glad some see the benefits that Bangu has brought to the Minnesota table.
Not cut, they were put on the white team.
Code for "cash cow" but they do get to wear the nifty uniform and most importantly, mom and dad get to say "my child plays for Bangu" They may even get a chance to train with a parent coach while the blue team is in the building. My heart would flutter too!
Wow! I suspect 8:53 might be a hater. I wonder when his or her kid got cut?
Nice circular debate. In my opinion, which is totally unbiased....
Bangu has done much to further soccer in MN. Mostly due to roviding pressure on cc's to provide as close a comparable product for the players, thus enabling them to "keep" players on thier rosters.
Also, cc's have done a lot for the progression of soccer in MN by reacting to the pressures put on them by the "competition (MTA)". They provide a home for players to develop and gain skills/confidence that are close to home. They are moving SOME players to a level where they want more, and the players go out and look for a different situation which better suits them. Some will stay, some will go. THIER CHOICE.
Each has a role in the progress in MN soccer. Arguing is much more fun....but the truth is somewhere in the middle.
SSMSouthCampus
SSMSC I read or heard somewhere that Iowa is trying to form a central major club. Is that the case? A tougher trick there as there is no single central metro area.
Yes Iowa is going to try to merge 4
Eastern Iowa clubs, Eastern Iowa United...
http://www.topdrawersoccer.com/component/option,com_topdrawer/Itemid,251/sid,18/nid,3103/
Its only going to be a matter of time till Des Moines follows suit if Eastern Iowa starts to win the States hardware.
The #1 priority to improve MN soccer at the national level is to develop a program to train our coaches. Bring in a couple of proven national coaches to train our coaches. The A,B license etc is a bunch of crap. Once our coaches get the training maybe they can start developing PLAYERS.
9:41 You just don't get it yet. MTA is going to solve all of our problems. Just drink the blue Kool-aid and enjoy our national success
Exactly 1012, our teams are now as successful on the national stage as any state other than the much more populous ones such as Texas, Illinois, California, Michigan etc. Kudos to Bangu, Wings, SCV and a few others for bringing this about. We will never be as successful across the board as the big states but we are doing well, particularly on the girls side, with what we have.
I actually talked to a DOC in the Des Moines area, and he felt as though the merger in the Eastern part of the State was not a real threat to anyone. I think he is right, in one sense. The merger will not effect those players in the DSM market (for the most part). Most players/parents don't have the commitment level to drive thier kids over an hour to join this merged entity.
However, here is where he is wrong in my opinion. Mergers are what are desperately needed in Iowa. To make it on the Regional/National stage, we cannot have our talent watered down between 6 clubs within the DSM "metro" area. My child has played on a State "power" here in Iowa...and has played on the Woodbury Springbok team in MN. I would say that the Springbok team would have a very good chance against the Iowa State Cup Champion for the age group. I WANT TO BE VERY, VERY CLEAR that I mean no slight to the Springbok team at all-- I absolutely love the players/parents/coaches. That being said, I think it has been pretty well established where Springbok fits into the MN soccer scene at U16. This is unacceptable as an Iowan. Our State Cup Champions are the absolute punching bag of the rest of the Region (with the possible exception of the West Des Moines Heat at U17).
Consolidation, even as battered a subject as it has been on this blog, is a positive thing. It allows a better chance at being competitive with the more populous States. Consider a MN small high school playing the largest high school. You simply don't have the kids to choose from to be competitive. Exceptions occur (like in the movie Hoosiers)-- but rarely.
In the absence of the ability to consolidate, one must go out and try to find the talent needed from outside. There are two different models being tried in MN right now, and time will tell who is more successful. MTA is trying to consolidate the talent by offering strong teams. SSM is "outsourcing" for talent-- which seems to work at the older ages.
Just my .02.
SSMSouthCampus
And might I add that both approaches (MTA and SSM) seem to be the target of much anger. I don't understand this at all. All they are trying to do is give players an opportunity to compete at a higher level.
Yes, it probably is true that the true underlying motivations are money based. However, the players benefit if the experiments work. If some money is made along the way, who cares? If you aren't willing to pay the bill....don't participate. I would venture a guess that the main goal of every organization is profitability-- but to get this you first have to be successful. And, in the sports market, being successful equals wins. So, why hate on either MTA or SSM? Just vote with your wallet and don't take part?
I, for one, would love to see what plan those CCs have in place for accomplishing something for thier players (regardless of the true end goal/motivation). Especially those CCs who are represented so vehemently by the MTA/SSM hater parents.....
SSMSouthCampus
In an obvious effort to give the perception of equality to MTA, Tonka and EP have sent their U14 girls to MRL this fall. The teams went a combined 0-6, with a grand total of 0 goals for and 24 against this first weekend. Good thinking guys. Clear illustration that Wayne H has no clue about regional competition.
Here's the link if anyone else wants to keep track this fall and laugh.
https://ssl.hammerhead.net/mrleleague/DivisionReport.asp?Division=GIRLS%20UNDER%2014%20WEST%20DIVISION%20BLUE
As has been noted previously, playing MRL is an expensive delusion for MTA or any other club UNLESS it is MRL Premier level. Otherwise, the competition is the same in MN, but the travel costs and time commitment are much greater.
If it makes the parents feel more exclusive or elite, buy in (emphasis on buy). The soccer won't be noticeably better, but the poor sportsmanship and whiny on-field behavior from your DD due to the entitlement she feels from regional play you will impress the college coaches.
Make the Inferno, EP 16's, the MTA Blue team, or go to SSM. If yiu don't make those teams, save your money and play in MN for a lower pressure, more fun, less delusional experience.
6:33 I have no problem with your MTA biased scorn towards those teams playing MRL and losing a couple games, but be sure to point that hateful venom at your own Bangu Blue team that went 0-8-2 in the lowly MYSA premier league. Typical Bangu double standard and others wonder why some of you are disliked.
8:40 - Are Tonka and EP playing up an age group too in MRL like the ex-Bangu team you are highlighting did in the MN Prem league? Apples to oranges though you are reaching to bash something you don't like. Take issue with something else if you wish as this line of thought makes you look like a fool.
keep track and laugh.I would like to see the name of that sad,sad person.
This blog is ok but really should have names on posts,its too easy to take cheap shots here and too many sad adults doing so.
I have a hunch that a lot of overweight people post here,especially the posters who cut down people,yep,me thinks lots of fat moms and dads with small weeners.
Had some cocktails and munchies last night with some parents of MTA highschoolers on my daughters h.s. team. Not one word out of any of them about college recruiting. THEY are seniors. At last years parents get together these same parents were bragging about how excited they were for their daughters about to receive a flurry of contacts from division 1 coaches. One year later, last night, not a peep. It is over for them. Interesting, how two non MTA juniors, players which play for a lowly CC have been "flooded" with over a dozen letters and visit requests from some pretty decent D-1 programs. I didn't want to embarass these MTA parents as my daughter was one of the two that has received the visit requests. I only post this here to illustrate that you don't need MTA to get your daughter recruited. Maybe it won't work out as well as the initial flurry, but the fact is you have to be able to play soccer, not just wear the powder blue!
"I only post here to illustrate..." What a moron. Guess MTA isn't the only club with parents full of their DD lives.
11:09 Your life sounds so complete. Do you also get up and go to work when the kids get home from school in the afternoon?
Nobody would sincerely post something as moronic as 1022. Particularly about acquaintances. Someone trying to say supid things to make others look bad again.
6:05, huh? And 7:45, I'm afraid you're incorrect. I believe the was a very sincere post albeit moronic. Some people just can't help it, goes for people on both sides of this argument. No one has cornered the market on passionate idiots who believe in the product they buy or the program they participate in. In my experience passion many times leads to a blind eye for others' perspectives. The rest of us are either sick of all of it or very entertained.
Anyone hear about the fall DOC meeting? Heard the guy who got fired from WDB couldn't leave without bringing up MTA. Did anything productive get done before that? Wasn't there going to be talk about recruiting, tryouts, ODP, etc? Hopefully it wasn't just an MTA bash session. There has to be a DOC on this blog who can fill all us common people in. Maybe we'll have to wait for the MYSA minutes to be posted. Yeah, right...
6:33 Seems to miss the point, those teams, same as MTA/Bangu, do the MRL to find and play good competition in order to improve as a team. Focusing on results of league play after a weekend is short sighted. We all need to support the improvement of soccer regardless of the club in which the kids play.
No one really is interested in "bashing" MTA. There are issues clubs have with MTA leadership, ethics, and behavior. It is telling that you assumed the DOC meeting was a "MTA bash session". Complete and utter self absorption-incredible!
TE didn't get fired from Woodbury, he resigned.
224, I don't think the poster said it WAS a bash session, just hoped it wasn't. Your post drips with scorn.
Since you seem to have been there why not enlighten us all as to what the issues that you and your colleagues raised. Or is this a DOC thing that the rest of us shouldn't be privy to? Facts from one who attended would be nice in the face of all the misinterpretation prevalent on this site.
The Bangu posters ripping on Tonka and EP in MRL, There is the evidence of Bangu types denigrating other clubs. Now let's hear fron MTA leadership that there is no bashing of other clubs.
Quick summary of the DOC meeting:
-Overview of MYSA programs, including lengthy discussions of ODP and coaching education offerings.
-Presentation on PACT
-Presentation on TOP Soccer
Breakout sessions:
-Minimal licensing standards for coaches (long discussion of whether there should be a waiver available for those who want to skip the E in favor of the D).
-Tournaments: Challenges and benefits of hosting tournaments.
-Fall competitive: What role does it play in development?
-U9/U10 Evaluations/Tryouts - Are they necessary?
All of this ate up basically 90% of the meeting. When the MTA issue was raised, there was very pronounced interest from those present (other than the 1 MTA representative) for a supplemental meeting to discuss the issue of MTA in MYSA.
Perhaps the most surprising part of the whole meeting was the statement from Candace Daley (MYSA) that on three documented occasions in the past 6 weeks the Thunder/MTA have used the mailing list for the entire membership provided to them under their sponsorship agreement with MYSA (which expired last week)to recruit players to their program.
The Thunder/MTA were warned by MYSA after the first two occasions and apparently MYSA has resorted to legal action after the third violation. It left many us there wondering what would happen to any other MYSA club after three consecutive violations of this nature (if we were inclined to behave in such a way, which no one, to my knowledge, is)?. On the other hand, as a club president, I was very disappointed to hear that this sort of thing is going on. I had hoped that MTA would be a positive addition to our soccer community, but this revelation confirms what lots of people write on here about the Bangu/MTA leaders, and it's a shame that they have chosen to start this venture, which has so much potential, with a series of serious rules violations.
In response to the entry above that started this discussion, the vast majority of the local clubs expressed an interest in being updated on this situation. There was no MTA bashing by the guy who brought it up or any of the MYSA personnel or other clubs, but this was clearly a point of interest and I think most of the clubs will want to continue to be updated on this situation.
Hmmmm....I never got an e-mail
Wow, neither did I...
I am pretty sure that is because MTA has a far superior IT department than MYSA does and they are able to secretly filter out all know blog posters and not include them on any such electronic communications that may cause such distress on the contractual agreements between parties.....The secret is out...now you know where all that money goes.
8:31
I am glad you see the reality that the MTA venture has "so much potential".
I suspect you instruct your tournament director to go to the MYSA website and mass e-mail all of the contacts posted on the MYSA website about your upcoming tournaments? What's the difference?
There is clearly an agenda on the part of MYSA to disassociate with MTA. Keep worrying about petty issues such as this and spend less time building your program to develop soccer players. I'm sure you know where that will lead you.
"I suspect you instruct your tournament director to go to the MYSA website and mass e-mail all of the contacts posted on the MYSA website about your upcoming tournaments? What's the difference? "
You've got to be pretty dull to not see the difference in promoting a tournament and using the list for recruiting purposes.
I would love to see one of these smoking gun recruitment letters.
Hi Club President,
If I can offer up a suggestion. Why don't you email the powers that be at the Thunder and have a discussion with them, man to man, rather than putting all your marbles in the words of an Exec Dir who has made it evidently clear that she has been personally affronted by the Thunder group. There may be two sides to the story or even some misinterpretation. That is, of course, unless you refuse to question the great omniscient soccer brain of youth soccer in this state.
Here, I even pulled off a few names for you.
manny@mnthunder.com
amos@mnthunder.com
mabboud@mnthunder.com
sbellis@mnthunder.com
They're pretty good guys. I'm sure they'll be very helpful to anyone approaching in the spirit of dialogue and improvement of the sport of soccer in MN.
I had a kid registered within MYSA and I have not recieved any recruiting letters/emails from MTA either. How about we start a roll-call to see who on this blog have been contacted "illegally" by MTA?
Sounds like there were atleast 2 people whose names on the MYSA rosters weren't contacted? Others?
SSMSouthCampus
I received no such e-mail. And there are no black helicopters hoovering above my house - or are there?
I believe someone would have cut and pasted the e-mail by now if it did exist.
........it was MTA on the grassy knoll.........
Hoovering? Is that a sucking sound?
The e-mail sent in the south was an exercise in destruction of the english language. I met that guy once, I thought he was english thus would assume he could handle the language. I trashed the e-mail.
That sucking sound is why our trees in Iowa lean North. Sorry, had to do it.......
SSMSouthCampus
Dear 1:45,
Here you go (sent August 16th):
U8-U12 Dedicated and devoted soccer players wanted!
Recently the Bangu Tsunami South Academy merged with theMinnesota Thunder Professional Soccer team to form the Minnesota ThunderAcademy South Juniors (MTAS Juniors) program. Since the academy's inception two years ago, we haveexperienced tremendous success in developing young soccer players that havegone onto play for the top age group teams in the state. Currently, over 25 of our formerplayers have gone on to play on one of the top two teams of the EliteDevelopment program (i.e. MTA U15Blue, U15 White, U15, *U15 Green, U14 Blue, U14 white, and this years U13 Blueand White teams).
Is your community club offering what you want? We can offer an incredible experiencefor players who are committed and dedicated players that want year-roundtraining, professional coaching, and a competitive training environment. All of the MTA South Junior coacheshold a high license and provide a structured environment that focusesspecifically on individual technical training and small-sided game development.
I cordially invite you to participate in a model trainingsession with no strings attached. We are extremely confident that we can offer a developmental experiencethat is custom tailored to the soccer player that wants to get more out of thegame. If this sounds like a childof yours, please contact me and we can further discuss in detail what it takesto get started.
Sincerely,
Anthony Bidwell
MTA South Juniors Director
_______________________________
Don't you hate it when someone calls your bluff?
OK, that's pretty bad. Small wonder people, including MYSA, are angry. Who did that go out to?
Who is this guy? The only good news is that it's so hard to follow grammatically that people were probably too put off to respond...What's a "childof"?
We received that e-mail, too.
What the heck? Let me see if I understand this: Bangu(now MTA)used an e-mail list given to the Thunder by MYSA as part of their partnership (presumably so that the Thunder could try to get kids and families out to Thunder games, NOT to join their new youth club)to e-mail kids in other clubs after tryouts in most of those communities? That's crap and any idiot on here who spouts off in the other direction is trying to deflect the much deserved grief they are getting for a series of poor ethical choices. I am sure that if MYSA is working with their legal representatives, they are at their wits' end with these people as well.
4:35,
What kind of sexist jackass are you? Candace Daley is personally affronted by MTA, so you want club presidents to have a "man to man" discussion with Thunder leaders? Your PR department is failing a bit, mate.
You seem to have forgotten that the Thunder made their own bed in choosing to join Bangu, right? The deafening silence after the call for more clubs to join (other than a Wings club that has been sucked to the point of anemia by PSA - that was surrender, not marriage), no one showed any interest. They've now driven off the state organization as well. Is this what the noble Thunder leaders had in mind? It's all hilarious to me. The best part is that the sawed off MTA types keep writing in here as if somehow people will begin to like them if they insult everyone enough. Good luck with the venture, lads!
We also got the e-mail. I am just befuddled that anyone would try to deny this is going on. Own the behavior and live with the reputation, as it clearly won't change anytime soon.
Is it that it got sent or that they alledgedly used the MYSA data?
Merely sending it - IMO, no big deal, tryouts are over, recruiting and marketing for their service.
Using Thunder data obtained through their prior relationship with MYSA that is not available to any other club, IMO is wrong.
If true, wrong is wrong even if it only affects a very small amount of players. Not sure if this is what has transpired, but that's my $.02.
The Mysa rules are fairly clear, once a player has signed and paid a club they are committed for the year Recruiting by e-mail or otherwise is no longer ok. Excusing it or finding a loophole is not ok either. The idea of following the spirit of the rules is how honorable people conduct their lives, business and personal. Goes to the essential question, do you want your kids around people of honor or is winning by bending rules, acting in an unethical way, what you want modeled for your kids?
so if we have the "glass house" philosophy, I can think of quite a few clubs that should be excluded......
11:34 Great post. Parents need to remember the lessons their little Mia or Landon learn will be there long after their playing career ends.
What bluff was called? I wanted to see one. It's always "I heard this" or "they did that" on this blog. It is good to see the actual thing. Thanks
here we go, 11:46 wants to excuse it because others may have had transgressions. Just say it is a violation, don't do it again as we expect more from our clubs and move on.
My family received that e-mail, too. Isn't is remarkable how all of the MTA big mouths go quiet when their e-mail is posted? It has to suck to believe that you can just browbeat people into shutting up and continue to do whatever you want to do, and then all of the sudden it's right there for everyone to see. I hope people are reading this strand to see what this freak show is really all about.
I could not allow my kid to be coached by someone that illiterate. I must have too high of expectations.
Does anyone suspect 12:50 of being a "hater"?
Who cares if Thunder try to recruit players 24/7 365 days or any other club for that matter. What matter is that if your club offer players what they want they will not leave.
Since MYSA have the none transfer rule (except if you transfer to a team in a higher league) maybe they should have a transfer window in the middle of the winter this would allow unhappy players to leave if they are not happy with what is being offered. Would also put pressure on clubs to provide what they promise.
Have only heard of one player who was not released by her club since I got involved in youth soccer in MN and that was wrong by the club. As a result the player sat out a year wonder who benefitted from that, bottom line is let players play where they want and if you offer what they want you want have to worry about it. To hide behind rules because your product is not good enough will never work in the long run.
In case you wonder I am not a Thunder coach.
Ps I must be a bad coach since I can not writte
The coach in question has recently "resigned" from his post as South Director. Looks like MTA may have more ethics than all you louts want to believe. Moreover if we're all to be judged by the actions of one coach in our club we'd all be in big trouble.
I prefer to be called a hater or kid got cut. Lout is hurtful hate language.
lmao! THAT'S what has the DOCs up in arms? Are you kidding me?!?!?! You should all be grateful that idiotic email was sent out. What are you guys crying about? Who is going to want to go play for that guy? He's doing your work for you.
Though I will also say better to have one renegade coach than a whole board and coaching director who support illegal tryouts and are happy to pay a fine along the way. Why aren't you cry babies looking at EP and what they did this past summer that MYSA glossed over? Oh, I forgot, they don't win. And MYSA is going to try and make an issue from this email? Like that hypocritical bunch of bs is going to float.
What did EP do?
If "W' says screw the constitution what's the big deal about this mailing?
Any time these guys get pinned down regarding their behavior, they try to deflect it by bringing up the behavior of others. Very juvenile and more evidence of a lack of character.
1:44,
What kind of imbecile are you??!! One coach??!! Have you done a background check on the rest of your MTA coaches??!! If it were just one coach, I would be relieved, and in case you left your rose-colored glasses in the car, this has happened three times that have been documented (in just a few weeks), and the goobies have been doing this for years. Unbelievable.
2:22
My guess is that the "three times" comes from this same email being reported on three occasions.
I can tell you that in going over the recruuiting rules for all the State Associations, there would not be more than two or three that this would be in violation in. It is a general email, not "Molly-- we want you to come and plaly for us".
That being said, it does go against the written and spirit of the rules in MN. So, it was wrong.
I assume that the reason I didn't get this email is because it is obviously addressed to the U8-U12 ages.
The email is very benign, I can't believe that MYSA acted on it for any reason other than there was pressure to do so from parents who took offense. These things happen all the time, but mostly people turn thier heads to it.
SSMSouthCampus
Hey, Pollyanna. If you don't want your kid subject to that kind of strong-arm pressurized recruiting-- how about you delete the email before they see it?
Bunch of whiners. What next? It is unfair that they wear blue t-shirts on the sidelines. I think they are recruiting.
I have seen many adds in Soccer Times for tryouts. Would that not be considered recruiting? Same thing if you ask me. One is in a newspaper and one is in an email..... both you have to read!
4:26 I think the MYSA rule on recruiting is subject to the timing of the alleged recruiting. I think (not 100% sure) that the recruiting can't take place after a player is committed to team for the current or upcoming season. I also believe ads on papers are ok because they are not targeted to any individual. An email is sent to a personal address so is therefore considered targeted, an ad is avalible for anyone reading that paper to respond to if they choose to respond. Active vs passive exposure.
I also think the issue is the use of the email list which was allowed by MYSA to be used by the Thunder for promotion of the Thunder and Lightning games. It is a priviliged list not avalible to other clubs who may want to use it for recruiting also. Since the Thunder organization got into the youth soccer business, competing against other local clubs they get no special consideration or email lists than does any other club.
Do any of you know what the MINNESOTA RULES ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT THIS? I think not? Here, let me post it here for you to read, since no one is ambitous enough to look it up.
Minnesota Youth Soccer Rules Manual
Section 1.3.4.1 Players Bound to Member Club
b. The open period for registered players who are considering playing for any Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member in the following season begins on August 1 of each year (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament-whichever is later). blah, blah, blah, blah........
Advertisements, emails, or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations, or other similar events by any Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE AUGUST 1 RESTRICTION. blah, blah, blah.....Recruiting a player who is bound to a club is also prohibited."
Now, let's break this down.
1) You can't have tryouts before August 1st.
2) Advertisements, emails, or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations, or other SIMILAR EVENTS are not subject to the August 1 restriction.
3) Recruiting a player who is bound is a no-no.
Statement 1 has not been broken.
Statement 2 applies here and there is nothing wrong with an email for events similar to tryouts being held after August 1.
Statement 3 was not broken because a SPECIFIC player was not targeted.
I see no rules broken here...with the possible exception of using an MYSA supplied email list. This is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than recruiting violations.
Sorry, but the proof is in front of you, folks. If you take the time to look.
SSMSouthCampus
Do any of you know what the MINNESOTA RULES ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT THIS? I think not? Here, let me post it here for you to read, since no one is ambitous enough to look it up.
Minnesota Youth Soccer Rules Manual
Section 1.3.4.1 Players Bound to Member Club
b. The open period for registered players who are considering playing for any Affiliate Member or Extraterritorial Member in the following season begins on August 1 of each year (or 24 hours following completion of the final match of the MYSA State Tournament-whichever is later). blah, blah, blah, blah........
Advertisements, emails, or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations, or other similar events by any Affiliate or Extraterritorial Member ARE NOT SUBJECT TO THE AUGUST 1 RESTRICTION. blah, blah, blah.....Recruiting a player who is bound to a club is also prohibited."
Now, let's break this down.
1) You can't have tryouts before August 1st.
2) Advertisements, emails, or other forms of communication announcing tryouts, evaluations, or other SIMILAR EVENTS are not subject to the August 1 restriction.
3) Recruiting a player who is bound is a no-no.
Statement 1 has not been broken.
Statement 2 applies here and there is nothing wrong with an email for events similar to tryouts being held after August 1.
Statement 3 was not broken because a SPECIFIC player was not targeted.
I see no rules broken here...with the possible exception of using an MYSA supplied email list. This is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than recruiting violations.
Sorry, but the proof is in front of you, folks. If you take the time to look.
SSMSouthCampus
A specific player was targeted. An email sent to a specific address targeting that individual.
The laws and rules around this type of mailings will continue to be debated as the unique nature of the internets ability to "touch" so many people ,free of charge, with the push of a button make this means of "selling" so powerful. I would bet that is why MYSA is so peeved at MTA for alegedly abusing the email list they were given access to.
Wrong SSM. Statement 3 was broken. The e-mail was indiscriminitely sent to players who were bound to a club. It was sent to specific home e-mail addresses a clear violation. No wiggle room here. Worse is the manner in which the e-mail addresses were gotten then used. There is no possible way they did not understand the ethical implications.
The above babble is the reason Minnesota will never be a major player at the national level.
Exactly 6:20. Pissed of CC people up in arms against the elite. It's a simple truth no matter how the haters spin it. Easy to rally here against MTA when there are more rules broken by CCs than by MTA each year. Pitiful but many of the haters here are clueless when it comes to competition standards outside of MN. Mediocre MN governed by certain mediocre MYSA people.
Who really cares!!
The issue here for me is that MTA used the e-mail list unethically. The list wasn't available to other clubs to use for the same purpose. Using the e-mail list as MTA did is a VERY different thing than taking out an ad for tryouts in the soccer news. If one can't draw the distinction there you are quite ignorant.
Also, 6:33-what does it mean to be pissed of?
It's my understanding MTA is having some problems filling up some of the MTS rosters. They are afraid some of the players which came to tryouts will not have enough teammates to fill certain rosters. Please, if this is not true, would someone from MTA correct me?
8:51 - Speaking of ignorant, did it ever cross your mind that maybe the recipients of this ridiculous email might have been obtained through the public team contact emails listed on the MYSA site? 9:12 - You might get a quicker answer if you contact the Thunder Directors directly.
Why can't we all just get along?
same thing Wings did a few years ago,use odp and mysa e mails to advertise tryouts
6:33,
If you can't have ethics, then fall back on calling yourself elite, and call everyone else naive about your need to toss aside ethics so you can be competitive outside MN (that's not going very well, either, is it?!). Rules violations by CC's? Who are you kidding? You have the market cornered there, pal. Throw in a shot at MYSA and you're ready to crawl back in your hole and sleep. You got caught red-handed, and no bashing of others will help you look any better than the no-class jerks that you are.
SSM: Well, it's nice of you to offer to sit in judgement of others regarding rules (pricelessly funny), but I think we'll opt for a more respectable arbiter (maybe Belichek is available).
10:41PM who are YOU kidding that there is FAR more unethical behavior in CCs than can be found in MTA? You're blind. You think handcuffing families and denying them choice and options for their children is ethical? You think all the recruiting by CCs is somehow justified because you're not an "elite" club? You think the actions of MYSA against the Thunder in the last year hold some iota of ethics? Your ethical youth sports world is a pipe dream. People are in this for themselves or for their kids mainly and with that being the driving force of decision making, ethics are going to be tough to come by.
I'm obviously not claiming all CCs and all MTA-types hold themselves to poor ethical standards but if you want to preach ethics don't come around here. Maybe tough for you to see this point through hater filters. :)
... there is FAR more ethical...
10:41-
I get really tired of people assuming that what others say is true without checking facts. Sorry for marginalizing your complaint with FACTS and RULES. As for respectable, you don't know me....don't pass judgement. I am only sharing an outside view of the RULES (since obviously you don't feel the need to search the truth out yourself).
5:11- How do you feel that this email violates Statement 3? The exact line from the MYSA Rules SPELL OUT emails as exempt from the August 1 date. If an email isn't sent to a specific email address.....is it really an email? It is clearly outlined as exempt specifically.
Stop following the herd and inform yourselves. You can look these rules up at:
http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/publications/rules.cfm
While you're there, I'd ask you to start with Rule 1.3.1 a. on Page 14. That will explain some of your SSM complaints.
Then move to Rule 5 on page 30 where you'll find the rest of your SSM issues covered (specifically from last year's U18 teams- and this year's U16s).
Once that is cleared up, the Rule in question currently is 1.3.4 b. which starts at the bottom of page 15 and continues to page 16.
And, since I know someone will bash me for this information....please note how lucky you are that we aren't at a game. Otherwise, you'd be subject to rule 8.2.2.7 (pg 40) and be in biiiiiig trouble!
SSMSouthCampus
Look, I want to be clear here-- I am not passing judgment. I AM saying that under the WRITTEN RULES (not something my neighbor John said his sister heard was true) there was no rule broken.
I do think that there is something to be said about using email lists for activities other than they were provided for.
I have a specific home address and I received soccer times in the mail... is that targeting a specific person? NO! Nor is the email that went out (supposedly). I see no difference in the communication. MYSA does not own my child! Who cares who got an email!!
In the future don't be surprised if more clubs start to go the EP route where they hold "camps" during June/July during which the focus is on evaluation (players are ranked by age) and team placement for the upcoming new year. If you've ever been to one of their actual posted tryouts you would then know why only a handful of returning players actually show up to tryout. Don't call them tryouts as that would be wrong since they all occur before 8/1, so we'll just come up with another name.
Personally, I do not have a problem with what EP does or what MTA South did. Oftentimes, rules are put in place by the powers to be not to improve but to impede. It is easier to hold someone (or something) back than it is to catch up.
7:30 It was more focused on the Thunder using a privileged email list, that was made avalible to them exclusively for purposes of promoting Thunder and Lightning games. When they (Thunder) decided to be a competing youth soccer club they were told that they were not permitted to use this email list to promote the MTA. If you remember they also stated emphatically that they were a seperate entity operating independently from the professional team. remember, they want to have nonprofit tax status etc. By the way good luck with that one if they are indeed comingling staff and resourses. The IRS will have a field day with that one.
In general this whole discussion is an idication of the disconnect the MTA has created in the soccer community. The Thunder blew it on this one, If you aren't a MTA player you now associate the pro team with the team you compete against in league. In other words the Thunder has created an adversarial relationship with the entire youth soccer community. From the perspective of marketing the MN Thunder pro team this program (MTA) is a big swing and a miss.
They may be able to field good youth teams, but by no means are they creating a unified soccer community which is what they need (the pro team) . The MN Thunder just alienated about 90% of the soccer families in MN by choosing sides with one and only one club, the former Bangu clubs.
8:43am - you seem to be pretty much in the know. The use of the privileged mailing list by the Thunder, is that a known fact that can be substantiated, an allegation, supposition, etc... Also, it would appear that an email went out to some families in the south for a few younger ages. Is this the extent of everything this discussion is revolving around?
8:42-
Come on. 90%? Get real. MTA accounts for more than 10% of the players. Not to mention that not all of the non-MTA families are as provincial as you.
8:50 There are 80,000 kids involved in Mn. youth soccer. You think there are 8000 or more at MTA? Go back to school better yet, come down from the Kool-aid high in a soccer reality detox center.
I find it quite amazing that there are people on here who are incapable of saying it was a misuse of the mailing list to use it to promote the youth soccer program by MTA. Further to say this guy did this on his own, laughable, I doubt that he acted alone based on his writing ability alone. This blind loyalty or obedience is not healthy for you.
What will the Thunder organization do to help teams who do not join their academy program? Are you either with them or ignored?
yes.
11:56,
I was reading your post with some interest until I saw "hater" in there. It makes life so much easier to be able to know that goobers are willing to tag themselves in this way. Thanks for not wasting any more of my time and good luck with future rules violations.
Does MYSA keep their e-mail contact list by district? Was this only sent to families in the South District?
Rules are for little people. Elite status especially when self described, frees you from ethical consideration. You do what you want, blame others and claim victim status.
1043, I'm glad you finally figured it out!!
Who has the proof that he actually received the e-mail list from MYSA? We are registered with MYSA and I don't ever recall getting an e-mail from the Thunder/Lightning on any upcoming games or events. I have gotten an e-mail from the Thunder promoting their camps as we have attended one in the past and did provide my e-mail during the registration process.
Said former director also had interests in other soccer circles in the metro area that could have provided him with e-mail addresses as well.
We all know the intentions of the e-mail and this will go on long after this incident has died down. It is what it is, but for MYSA to threaten legal proceedings against the Thunder for using "their" list doesn't hold much water.
There may be some fine print somewhere in the MYSA/Thunder agreement that says so, but again, tough to prove they were actually provided the list exclusively from MYSA. So why bring it up at a DOC meeting? What is the real intent?
This sounds like little children trying to steer blame to someone else when caught doing wrong. Why would MYSA lie about this? The repercussions for doing so would be rough. Every time MTA does something like this they (and their supporters) play Philidelphia lawyer and explain away their actions. Are you trying to justify this stuff in your own mind? Others know what goes down. We aren't all repeating idle gossip as you try to assert. You got caught with your hand in the cookie jar. Don't embarrass yourselves further arguing semantics and your opinion of what "legal" is. I won't even say any thing more of the ethical side of all this.
I've read many of these posts. MTA asserts that CCs treat players like they own them. I'm sure MTA wants committed players to stay with them for the season as well. For me I know of no case in our club where a player has ever been denied a release that wanted one. I agree that players and families have the freedom to go where they feel their child is best served. A wild west mentality isn't good for anyone however. There has to be a governing body with some rules. Clubs should want to follow the rules of it's body. You have opportunities to propose/change rules every year. And, I am not a kid got cut or hater although my daughter is a high level player.
1:02,
Were you there? There was a groundswell of support for discussing this issue after it was brought up, and pretending that you are shocked that anyone is interested tempts one to direct you to the above post (1:11): No denying or wiggling or trying to shift attention or blame MYSA or hollaring at others in here will get you anywhere. Quit embarrassing yourselves...or don't, I guess, this is great publicity against your organization. The truth really does hurt for you blokes, eh?
U8-U12 Dedicated and devoted soccer players wanted!
Recently the Bangu Tsunami South Academy merged with theMinnesota Thunder Professional Soccer team to form the Minnesota ThunderAcademy South Juniors (MTAS Juniors) program. Since the academy's inception two years ago, we haveexperienced tremendous success in developing young soccer players that havegone onto play for the top age group teams in the state. Currently, over 25 of our formerplayers have gone on to play on one of the top two teams of the EliteDevelopment program (i.e. MTA U15Blue, U15 White, U15, *U15 Green, U14 Blue, U14 white, and this years U13 Blueand White teams).
Is your community club offering what you want? We can offer an incredible experiencefor players who are committed and dedicated players that want year-roundtraining, professional coaching, and a competitive training environment. All of the MTA South Junior coacheshold a high license and provide a structured environment that focusesspecifically on individual technical training and small-sided game development.
I cordially invite you to participate in a model trainingsession with no strings attached. We are extremely confident that we can offer a developmental experiencethat is custom tailored to the soccer player that wants to get more out of thegame. If this sounds like a childof yours, please contact me and we can further discuss in detail what it takesto get started.
Sincerely,
Anthony Bidwell
MTA South Juniors Director
Goes back to the idea of having your children around people of honor. Do you want them around guys who continually chose which rules they like or don't like? There is a need to do the right thing in life which includes soccer.
What would "W" do in a situation like this.
Gonzalez
Actually 1:11 & 1:20, the 1:02 post does raise an important question. Do you know for a fact that the information used came from the MYSA data? If so and confirmed - then guilty as charged. If not, then this is purely conjecture. It is easy to make the assumption (and we all know the saying about assuming) that the information came from there, but there are lots of ways to come up with that information (previous tryouts, other camps - Footholde/Thunder, etc...). How many people was this mailed to and what was the target audience?
It would appear that contacting players after they might have committed elsewhere was done which is wrong, but I guess you can just put me in the column that needs more documented proof. I'm not a MTA parent (nor do I play one on TV...), just a lawyer.
118, you had to add in the last statement about your daughter playing high level. I guess I'll bite, what level does she play at?
1:20,
I was not at the DOC meeting. Fact
The Club President see 8:31/09SEP post stated this:
"Perhaps the most surprising part of the whole meeting was the statement from Candace Daley (MYSA) that on three documented occasions in the past 6 weeks the Thunder/MTA have used the mailing list for the entire membership provided to them under their sponsorship agreement with MYSA (which expired last week)to recruit players to their program.
The Thunder/MTA were warned by MYSA after the first two occasions and apparently MYSA has resorted to legal action after the third violation. It left many us there wondering what would happen to any other MYSA club after three consecutive violations of this nature (if we were inclined to behave in such a way, which no one, to my knowledge, is)?. On the other hand, as a club president, I was very disappointed to hear that this sort of thing is going on. I had hoped that MTA would be a positive addition to our soccer community, but this revelation confirms what lots of people write on here about the Bangu/MTA leaders, and it's a shame that they have chosen to start this venture, which has so much potential, with a series of serious rules violations.
In response to the entry above that started this discussion, the vast majority of the local clubs expressed an interest in being updated on this situation. There was no MTA bashing by the guy who brought it up or any of the MYSA personnel or other clubs, but this was clearly a point of interest and I think most of the clubs will want to continue to be updated on this situation."
They accusations are clear in the first paragraph, now prove to all on this blog that the accused violated ANY rules pertaining to youth soccer in our fine state governed by the MYSA rules.
It may or may not have been a violation of the contract between MYSA and the Thunder. If they can prove it, fine, hang me. They can't and they won't.
Again, what is the point to bring it up at a DOC meeting let alone this blog? Is it information that every DOC needs to know? They all know recruiting goes on and this certainly won't stop it. Comments such as these from the club president can be only be taken with slanderous intent.
Does anyone have that email?
Seems there's a lot of bluster about it but no proof.
We didn't get one here in the West District.
If they had used the MYSA mailing list for the entire membership even when filtered down to 8-12 year olds in specific geographical areas wouldn't there have been hundreds if not thousands of these sent out?
Did MTA admit to the original two stated occurences?
10:37AM -
So let me get this straight. You were reading the post from 11:56PM with interest UNTIL you found out they were supposedly a goober. Then, based on that revelation, the post content lost all credibility for you, unable as you were to grasp the concept that a goober might be talking some sense. Typical.
When you stop and think about it, we're all so, so silly. This whole thing is silly.
Amen to that. Let's get back to bashing the clubs who lost a couple games at MRL last weekend.
Let's not bach clubs who lost MRL games last weekend....we have our first two games this coming weekend. I'd rather see how we do before I speak ill of those who did not tally points last weekend.
Not feeling overly confident as we will see our team (with new players) on the field for the first real challenge Saturday. Trial by fire, baby. Trial by fire!
I, for one, am anxious for the SSM U16s to get into the schedule and play some quality teams to get them some experience. Not much else for a U16 club team to do in the Minnesota Fall.
Games are against NSA Premier Storm and Chicago Fire Jrs.
SSMSouthCampus
It was so much more fun "bashing bangu" than MTA.
It just doesn't have the same ring....
9:52 Give it time. They'll pile up more heinous errors and bad judgement and spew gas at all who oppose them and it'll all pan out to be the same as before, so keep your chin up!
It's a nice little irony that the moobers want to scream slander when someone comes in here and posts moober e-mails. Are you going to sue yourselves over this? Who would we pull for in that one?!!
Seriously, I think it's important to thank the moobers for their undying willingness to come in here and argue like idiots and insult the masses (in both word and deed) so that the rest of us get a good laugh. Cheers.
9:52, keep searching for names for the elite. You're still are and will always be a hater and give the rest of us a good laugh. Cheers.
Oops - that last was obviously to 10:45
1045, Enjoy your laugh while you can we get to laugh every time we watch your teams play!!
Well said 1:46 I especially enjoyed watching the 14 Premier league games last summer. I was laughing hysterically when my daughter's lowly, inferior CC team took two wins from the East superteam. I love to laugh.
ANON 151- The fact that a U13 team was able to hang with your daughter's older team doesn't say much about the program she is in. Also that is not a Superteam.
0-8-2 is hanging with? Wow! Those are some goober colored glasses you are wearing. And in fact, you must not remember all the hype about that team after tryouts last year.
1:51, You are correct, I've often heard laughter is the best medicine.
This is such a huge buzz kill...
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