This post has certainly created a lot of interest and I will leave it open for a while longer. The MTA will be an interesting option. Please try to stay on topic.
Sweeper, I believe that you and I have achieved a first on this blog...agreement. Your cautionary initial post is very well founded I think since I would agree that many interpret a single study to be gospel.
As far as who MTA recruits, we'll leave that to be seen who shows up to their tryouts in a couple weeks. I know that Wings provided availability to a fair amount of Liberian players that would not have been able to play club ball without help and certainly raised the level of play for several of their boys premier teams.
To address a statement by our apologetic poster, I think that you will find that MTA or anyone else would have difficulty recruiting/attracting female players of other ethnicities that are any better than our home grown kids primarily out of environment. America values female athletics far more than any other country, and MY experience has been that our girls (black, white or whatever) are better prepared for the challenges of the sport both physically and skill-wise than all but one of the foreign born players that I have ever coached due to that environmental influence.
As a current Bangu Parent I am very excited about tryouts and hope that the new merger with Thunder,Bangu and Wings brings out the most talented players Minnesota has to offer.
I have been to 5 ODP camps with boys of differnt ages. Region 2 (and MN) do tend to select players of color over white players with the same skill and capability level. I'm sure there are a variety of reasons for it. Some are probably racism working in reverse (e.g. players of color are more agressive or more hungry for success.) The fact is that too many non-white MN players do not go on to play college soccer. Again, there are probably a variety of reasons.
MTA is just a more organized version of where Bangu was headed - four district clubs and an emphasis on MRL play for the top teams. With the Wings added as the West club, the only change to the current system is the addition of the North club.
Based on the girls teams, I question whether the emphasis on MRL will be much of an improvement over the status quo - maybe a small step. The U17 girls had three teams playing MRL 1st division, and two in the MRL Premier division. The 1st division results were very similar to the MYSA Premier League results. This is also true of play at U14. The MRL Premier division is a cut above, but the MRL 1st division appears to be a lot of travel and expense to play similar competition to MYSA.
There has consistently been a team at the top level (recently Tsunami Sota, St. Croix Eclectic, Bangu Stars, Woodbury Inferno, and Bangu Blue U14) developed through former or current systems. The MYSA Premier division is equal to the next level (MRL 1st division), and there are already many teams playing at that level from several clubs in MN.
If MTA can get their Blue teams to the national level, and their White teams to the MRL Premier level consistently, it will be an improvement over current results. If not, parents will be paying more , teams will travel a lot more, and athletes will be foregoing more opportunities for no improvement in results.
MTW (formerly Wings) already has kids driving down from Duluth and Fargo...it's always an option.
If you kid just wants to have fun and enjoy a sport for what it is, play with your local (or closest) club. If your kid wants a shot at the highest levels available to Minnesotans, take out a second mortgage to pay for gas and drive to the metro area and join a metro club.
Thanks for the responses. He does play for a good local club with a great coach and has tested higher-level training/competition the last couple of years.
I have no idea how people join a club hours away; I'd get in a bad mood the day before ODP training knowing that I was going to waste (err, invest) most of my Sunday on it, and that was just one day a week for a month or two.
Has any thought been given to satellite outstate teams so everyone doesn't have to drive hours back and forth to the Cities?
4:25 - Keep dreamin. Your current Bangu player will be up against existing Bangu players and those Wings players who want to be part of this program. Most talented players I know of with other clubs have said they have no interest in switching clubs and will stay where they are and will be playing Premier, MRL, etc. next year. No incentive to switch clubs from the families I have talked to. Bangu can spin this anyway they want to, most are smart enough to know its more of the same.
I think too many people on this blog are of the thinking the MTA wants to get every talented player in MN into their club. I would highly doubt that to be the case. I think they know their elite program isn't for everyone and I would hope they are interested only in the players that WANT to play in that environment. I know for myself, I'm more interested in coaching the kids that want to play for me and I'm willing to pass up decent players that are just going to be a pain in my rear.
And more of the same is bad? Most clubs would like to win just 1State Cup title and Bangu has wn 7 or 8 each of the last three years. It's no secret why they have more players attending their tryouts each year. Last year they had many of the fields at Ft Snelling rented for several days trying to accomodate the huge numbers showing up to tryout. No reason to think this year will be any different.
Top players who want to excel at the collegiate and professional levels will seek MTA out. No doubt about it regardless of where the first team is in the standings. MTA will simply have the best development option for talented players. Shouldn't we all want that? Shouldn't we want our top players playing together? Do you think US Soccer, all the MLS teams, and an increasing number of USL pro teams all have it wrong? Do you think the entire European youth development system is wrong? Do you think the admin people at MYSA or the volunteer parents who run the show at the CCs know more about elite player development? You're blind if you think that. No other way to put it. You just haven't seen enough. And don't give me any BS that it's the DOCs who make decisions at CCs. Not happening.
Doesn't matter really as if you can't see it you're child is not the type for this program. Others will come and MN soccer will be better for it. There will always be the stud player with a family deeply rooted to their community, players who go on to have fantastic soccer careers. That's fine and that's their choice. But that's not commonplace by any stretch of the imagination. Serious talent will find other serious talent. That's why there are different programs out there and that's the way the world works. Deal with it.
1:29 no idea who you're responding to. I'm sure too that there will be a big tryout. So what? But can every Bangu parent on here please quit putting it up on a pedestal? When MTA is able to emulate Dallas Texans (5 teams in Nationals) then you have something to brag about that is meaning full, at which point humility is in order anyway. Bangu/MTA is the big fish in a small pond. It has its good points and bad points, good coaches and bad coaches, successes and failures and on and on and on...
To go back to an earlier subject with their relationship with MYSA, I think the real question is going to be, will they have the cajones to take on the MSHSL and their life controlling rules about players not being allowed to train if they are in a HS program?
2:40, you say, "MTA will simply have the best development option for talented players." Prove it. I don't see much more than slick promoters and aggressive recruiters.
does this thread need to be a constant ad for MTA? MA has delightful posts if you want sophomoric advertising copy. Here's one, 14 premier team o-fer in league let's hear the MTA spin on that. They had hand picked the team and coach? These are the great soccer minds we want in charge?
From what I understand MTA is not a Academy. It is a name of a Club. Its advantage will be the lack of parental involvement in player development issues. The problem for them will be cost.
5:50, You're right. The poster at 5:12 jsut stuck his foot in his mouth. Typical for the ignorant bashers who really don't have aclue about which team is which.
anon 5:12, So why don't you take this opportunity to tell us of all the new and innovative ideas and strategies clubs other than Bangu have implemented to improve the level of player development here in Minnesota. We're all eager to hear about it. That way we won't have to hear anything more about Bangu...right?
The Bangu U-14p team was the best U-13 team in MN. That isn't really a huge bragging point as you can see that age group is the weakest age group in the state.
Proof: U-14p Bangu team can't win one game playing up. (to premier I grant you yet still not one victory). There were three U-12 teams playing C1 at the 13 age group all did fairly well, or at least they did well compared to the u-14p teams record.
East district: Bangu 8-3-1 (second place in their league and advanced to State) South District: Dakota Rev 7-3-2( second place in league) Bangu South 4-7-1.
I doubt any of the U-12 teams are made of dominant Superstars, yet they played up far more effectively than did the 14P team, which tells me the age group is weak.
As far as tournament play is considered, Congratulations to the 14p team , as said earlier you are the best in a "soft" age group.
There will be quite a bit of consolidation in the current U13 age group as the kids this age see who the true premier teams are. That's the way it always works. Tryouts for premier teams at this age group draw big numbers.
I would say consolidation will be needed because the top teams at that age are good, but only good. The age groups ahead and behind this group are much deeper. Very odd in my opinion, any thoughts on why this age group is weaker, or are the surrounding ages just significantly stronger than average which makes them appear weak?
Hold on 7:46 am. "The Bangu Team u14p that played up to u14" was the best u-13 team in MN. Not true. They did not win State Cup at u13 which is the ultimate insult given the single focus Bangu puts on that event (remember leagues and summer state are non-events). how about we see how many of those sign on to play next year. from what i hear, that group is about to scatter.
9:48 They are the best U-13 team because the team that beat them at State Cup was a U-12 team :)
Clearly the Bangu emphasis on State Cup was inadvertantly misdirected to the U-12 team instead of the U-14P team. Thats what happens when you use colors to describe your teams and not names. Clearly the wrong Blue team was given the "top secret State Cup Kool Aid".
of course the excuse goomachine is at full power today. When they won the east as 12's it was because of the academy training and superior coaching blah blah blah. Now it is "they were playing up" admit they failed to deliver as they promised the kids and parents on the team.
Wow! I for one have been vocally opposed to much of what Bangu does myself, but 11:43 and the rest of the "anti-goos" sound just as pathetic as the so-called "goos." It's no wonder MN soccer can't get into the upper eschelon regionally and nationally if this is the way we communicate and promote ourselves. Are you for promoting the good of the game or the good of yourself?
You all are trying so hard to slam coaches, coaching and club philosophies, but in the end, you're insulting a bunch of young kids just trying to play a sport that they love. Congratulations!
This would be much more pleasant if more than a couple sporatic bloggers exchanged actual ideas instead of slinging mud all over the place. I'm becoming embarassed to admit that I even read this blog anymore.
My opinion, who cares about individual results or win-loss records. Do you think when your kid goes and interviews for their first job out of college that their potential new boss is going to ask if they won state cup at U14 and if not, there is no way they are getting this job.
State Cup wins equate to the team that solved the problem at that specific moment in time. It means nothing 3 months later, especially around here where players (read parents) start shuffling around to find the next team to try for that vaunted spot atop the heap, only to try again the next year if that doesn't pan out.
Can MTA provide somewhere for the player that wants to play at the highest levels of competition if that is their thing? Maybe. Tryouts haven't even started yet so all this chatter is merely speculation. Can other clubs provide similar experiences? It would appear that way. Can we really call this a true academy? I don't think so, but for the kids and parents that are investing time and money, I hope it works out. If things I've read in other places like the Thunder possibly partnering with Burnley in England and giving kids and coaches the opportunity for player/coach exchanges, that would be pretty cool for those that get to do that. If the whole darn thing goes up in smoke, well it sucks for those involved, all the nay-sayers get a good laugh and then what? Who knows? Maybe NESA desides to be the next in line to try the superclub thing and you're all right back here spouting the same insults and making talking about how the U14 NESA boys flopped at state cup but that it wasn't fair because they were mostly U12's from their academy. ;b
I've never been involved with Bangu in any way, so I'm not a "Bangoon," but from the outside looking in, Bangu certainly appears to be a soccer club filled with dedicated coaches, highly dedicated players, willing parents, and a rather successful history in MN.
I just don't see what there is to hate in that equation. Why do adults hate Bangu this much?
4:18, The hate is not there the Goo crew manufactures it to garner sympathy, basically claiming victim status as they go about their business. A big part of their pitch is their particularly keen eye for talent combined with their best coaches anywhere mated with a fool proof training program. In the case referred to above they never delivered to the kids or parents as they promised. They should take some heat not hate for it, it's what responsible morally centered adults do.
Another Shekki and another idiot. You're marriage must be a good one.
If there were promises made and not delivered it makes perfect sense for people to want to bail. But from what I've seen this particular group is a parent controlled group and that has no place in MTA. However when you're talking about promises I think many CCs promise much more than Bangu did. CCs promise "we'll do the same thing Bangu does" and "you can find the same thing here next year, we're changing". Sometimes they live up to these statements many times they do not. Bangu on the other hand says "this is what we've done, this is our program, we're doing it and we're going to do the same thing again". There is a difference. One is an established leader with a proven program the other is usually a fledgling program that WANTS to provide the same thing but sometimes cannot.
I agree with the comments about regarding the parents posting on here about their DDs. Shut up.
6:24 Sorry, nice try. The Bangu now MTA group bills itself as controlled by "soccer pros" so now when things don't go their way it's parent controlled? Again a Bangu zealot attempting to have it both ways.
Simple 10:45, who do you think is writing the checks to support MTA? If there are Wings and Bangu parents who aren't comfortable with the new setup, they are going to go elsewhere.
How about some predictions for the MYSA State Tournament.
It's not the quality of the State Cup, but it is one of the best Tournaments for many MN teams. Several age groups have very strong competition amongst the qualifying teams.
Any Predictions ? For MTA, against MTA, it doesn't matter, right now this is the best consolodation of talented teams in the State playing off to a MYSA State Championship.( I'm trying to change the subject and the negativity of this latest string)
Better pick yourself up and dust off. According to the MYSA site, Kaasa's team got run over in their first state game (3-0). Looks like Tonka is the favorite here (5-0 win over TC Fire). This will be tough on those U12 parents. At least you can say that you're playing up and that's why you lost!
Hater 9:13, shut up. Do you for one minute think that 4:38 was serious? State Cup winners don't guarantee anything in any tournament that follows. The 12s were best in MN on that given day. Who will claim that honor now? Probably not them. Looks like Bville or Tonka. Good for them. 12s can earn Premier still though, something none of the others at 13 can claim they did as 12s. Good for them.
Allow Shekki to deliver the "big MTA announcement." I was going to wait until 11:59pm in true Goon fashion, but I'm just all atwitter right now and can't wait.
"Many of you have wondered just WHAT this mysterious element is that has made Bangu so successful in recent years, and how will they replicate it with MTA. Well, we are proud to share our secret. MTA is proud to announce that a select few players will have the opportunity to wear our fabulous crest for the upcoming season. Yes, you will pay a LOT of money for that privilege...unless you're REALLY good and REALLY poor, in which case you will pay nothing (bummer for the Edina folks, we know). Also, please realize that your child will likely not play much if he or she is not one of the top 11 players on the team, because part of our magic is our ability to inherently know which 11 players are best and therefore know which 11 players will play. The training your child will receive outside of games will be very good, so consider that the value you will receive. We fully expect players #12-18 will search for new clubs the following year, but our PATENTED MTA DEVELOPMENT MODEL is so effective we will just reload our rosters with 11 more great players next year, and move our current top players into those #12 to #18 positions. THAT'S HOW WE ROLL!"
Shekki
P.S. Don't worry, ladies. There is NO bride of Shekki. There's simply too much of me to go around.
Word is that more than 60 players have already registered for the U16tryouts beginning August 8th. Expect the number to end up being 75-80. This shows there is significant interest in the new MTA model.
Bash MTA, Bangu, Wings, and SSM all you want but there obviously is a market out there for this type of player development program. Players and parents are voting with their feet and they always have.
Markets are never wrong. Time will tell if comsumers buy what MTA is offering.
If there were three teams playing U15 for Bangu that is about 54 players who resigned for U16tryouts. Looks like Bangu had 4 teams playing U15 last year so, if they all came back, would be closer to 72. Great marketing machine.
Why would anyone care how many kids are "rumored " to be signed up for MTA ? Who cares?
I have heard of more kids trying out for several clubs this year than I have ever heard about in the past. Who knows how true the rumors are. Many of the CC's are telling of significantly increased interest but it is completely unknown how many kids will actually switch clubs. The MTA model has at the very least moved some of the former Bangu/Wings kids to consider other options. I do have a question to anyone from Wings.. Bangu was an option for you in the past (as it was for everyone) If you didn't want that system last year (clearly you chose the Wings program) what makes you interested in Bangu now that they have changed their name to MTA?
If MTA has 75 at each age group that means they will have 1650 kids at tryouts. If 80% are given a team placement and accept it that will be 1320 kids. Average 14 kids per team (U-9/12 pull down the averages)That means MTA will have 94 teams. This isn't meant to be a Bash on MTA but I highly doubt they will get 94 teams this year. If they do get that many teams they will clearly have to change the stated philosophy of only two teams per age group U-13 and up. What are they trying to be? The biggest club, or the pooling spot for the top talent to consolidate at?
I am also interested in the question posed by 9:28 Why would the Wings kids automatically move to MTA ? There are several other options for them to consider at good local clubs.
If MTA publishes the numbers coming to tryouts I guess they feel everyone will jump in so they don't miss out. Nobody is missing out, the numbers most likely represent those who are staying with the club +/- a few new ones testing the waters and some who are leaving. No big news here, just more spin.
could this blog be used by the MTA guys to advertise their program by spinning fanciful numbers to create a stampede? That would behavior i'd want my kids around. when are tryouts? Bride of shekki
We need to clear some stuff up here. MTA only refers to the 28 teams that are at the elite level (2 per age group per gender for U13-U19, that's 7 age groups times 4 teams per age group for anyone having trouble). For the kids that don't make those teams, the regional academies will be able to place teams based on where their teams finished this summer. Wings became MTW, Bangu East is MTE, Bangu South is MTS...I think you get the picture. They will still function as the "CC" for players that want to be in the MTA system but can't play for the elites. Wings had 50 teams last year according to the MYSA website. A couple might go the elite route, but for most of them, they will be C1, 2 or 3 based on their promotion/relegation status. And the same people that have been running the regional areas will still be running the regional academies separately from the elites and other regions with cooperation between all 6 "separate clubs" (elite, north, south, east, west and urban).
Obviously, since Wings was the only club with any significant number of teams other than Bangu, the other regional academies will have to build themselves up, but not every kid goes to the elite program. Not sure why that keeps being the previaling view but it just keeps leading to uninformed comments.
Your motivation for your words is beyond reason. Go back under your rock and enjoy your kid's CC program. Let's let our kids make the opinions and decisions. Let the fun be had on the field by the players - not hiding behing the comfort of a keyboard. ADMIN - Please kill this thread!!!!
I am assuming then that the Academy teams will pay significantly less than the "Elite" teams , since the best coaching will have to be directed to the Top two teams at Each age group (the Elite teams) which means they will need 28 top coaches to handle just those teams. I think Bangu has had some very good coaches at various levels, but certainly not 28 top level coaches. I wonder how the regional Academy teams are going to feel about being part of the MTA system in name only. Seems it will lose its luster if the coaching is no better than the Community Club. Which then begs the question, Why even have the regional Academies ? It has to be revenue to support the "Elite" teams. I am not trying to be sarcastic, I just don't see the draw playing for them beyond qualifying for one of the "Elite" teams.
It probably will be tough for the smaller academies that don't have established bases. The West will be able to draw from the existing Wings base. My guess will be that there will be some significant effort placed at the u8-u12 level which would be the responsibility of the regional academies to develop.
12:32 Why would the former Wings players want to be in the Bangu system now ? If they wanted to play in that Bangu type system they would have done so before the "merger". I agree with the above posts that the Wings players wanted to play for Wings, not Bangu, why would they suddenly automatically choose the Bangu system? I would bet the MTA will see significant loss of players from the Wings group.
It's possible I guess, but from my understanding, at least from those in the West, there isn't much changing except for the uniforms and the name. I haven't heard about any great exodus of coaches from Wings/MTW so why should the kids go too. If they do it right and maintain a community presence, they'll probably do alright. That's not to say that there won't be any movement out of the club, but why condemn them to death so quickly.
Also to point out, Wings is not becoming Bangu, they're just partnering with them. Ex-Wings DOC Bellis is one of the 2 technical directors for the academy so there is a balance. Bangu should contribute to elite girls side and Wings can contribute the ability to build strong boys teams and possibly show Bangu how to actually build a community based club to develop future talent, something Bangu never showed any ability at so far.
1:42 "Wings is not becoming Bangu, they're just partnering with them."
I would say very few "Mergers" are really mergers. Those involved will all talk a good game about wanting to pull from the strength of both Clubs, but at the end of the day the current Bangu management/board will run this club. The main reason the locals are/were courted is to try to give the appearance of a community based organization in order to have better access to fields.
The original proposal made to the six CC's probably 6 months ago made this point pretty clear.
I am not condeming this to death as you indicated, I do however think the overall MTA model is flawed at the younger ages. If it can work to help the youth of MN have a better soccer experience then I hope it works. I personally believe a better model could be used to represent the Name of our MN Thunder Pro team. If it was the elite academy only this thing could have been supported by the masses not resented due to our Pro Soccer affiliate choosing to compete with the masses of the soccer world in MN.
Egotistical coaches who's #1 priority is their winning record are a cancer in Minnesota soccer. Until development becomes the #1 priority you won't see significant improvement on the national level.
The new MTA board will consist of 2 Wings members, 2 Bangu members and 2 Thunder management members. Wings have as much say of the new board as Bangu. Nice try but you folks really should ger a handle on the facts before sticking your foot in your mouth. It is a merger that I'm surprised the Bangu gang agreed to. Maybe they're putting the kids and soccer development in Minnesota ahead of their own club?
tomsenigma, Care to explain then how the Tsunami Sota girls were national finalists in 2002 and 2003. That's doing pretty well on the national level in my book. Did they overcome their egotistical coach's desire to win?
Amos Magee was just fired because he wasn't successful. Why would you think the 2 Thunder reps would vote to appease Bangu when the owners that fired Amos are also their bosses? Do you think the Thunder reps are going to appease Bangu or the guy who signs their checks? Sometimes I wonder how you folks function in the real world. Get a clue, Bubba.
The Sota was probably the best collection of talent in the states history.Anybody could have coached that team to the nationals and an elite coach probably would have won it.
They're one in the same. Thunder needs Bangu and vice versa. They've ticked everyone else off, so they're perfect bedmates. Ew, I nearly threw up.
Predictions: (1) After a few years of loading up on -- er, I mean DEVELOPING -- talent, Bangu will drop everything but the top team at each age group, and bring back the powder blues and headgear and the dorky dark blues with dark green numbers. Their annual player turnover rate will continue to be in the 50% to 80% range. The Bangu leaders' egos are much more suited to handling BEST instead of BIG. (By the way, did you know Bangu has won 23 State Cup titles over the last three years?)
(2) Wings says, "Dang, where did our good players go?"
(3) Thunder folds, wondering why no one goes to their games.
Proudly single (though I'm starting to get the hots for Bride of Shekki),
There is a lot of talk about numbers of players signed up for MTA tryouts. That doesen't make much sense because I hear a lot of current Bangu players are looking for greener pastures and signing up for tryouts with other clubs.
(more sarcasm ahead) Maybe us poor little CCs will be able to compete afterall.
tomsenigma, So which is it? Coaching isn't important? Or coaches just get lucky and have the best players and coaching really doesn't matter? You can't have your cake and eat it too. Whiners on the board claim we don't have any top level coaches developing players. But then other whiners diss a coach by saying he only won because he had top players? I guess Storlien is just the luckiest coach in the state. He "got lucky" at Jefferson and won a MSHSL State Championship and "got lucky" and went to USYS nationals two years in a row. Funny how none of the other coaches in Minnesota just don't have his "luck" and pull off those feats. What a bunch of hypocrites.
while the tone of this board is sour and much of the comments are uneducated, what is clear with the amount of chatter is there will be significantly player movement this fall. the noise has never been this loud around player movement (to and from one club to another) just listening to parents, coaches, etc. i guess 'change' is in the air this year. my guess is that at the lower end more families will be looking to their cc to keep costs down (vs MTA), at the higher end (skill and age especially up north and east) MTA will benefit from consolidation and the brand, and in the middle it will be a bounty for good local cc clubs that offer year round programs will less travel, more community and less cost than MTA (ie a region like the south metro where Bangu/MTA is weaker). Once state is officially over, it will be a free for all (of course no one is recruiting early). Time for the boys to get out the hair gel and cologne to woo the soccer moms!
Did anyone notice the bright yellow forms the MYSA folks were handing out when you checked in your team at State last week? The form that clearly delineated the MYSA's recruiting rules? I asked the lady checking in my team why they were handing it out, and she laughed and wondered if I was kidding.
In any event, my little CC gets better every year when the BNG left-overs come looking for a place to develop and play. We haven't lost a boy to them in five years, and in fact are starting to attract quite a few girls each fall. Bring it on...this new consolidation will only help us get our C1 teams to premier.
All the hater talk stems from fear or envy. You all give parents who make the MTA choice zero credit for looking for an option that fits their family's needs or their children's desires. Grow up. Focus on developing the kids who choose your option as it is likely a great one for those interested. Leave the elite development to the professional decision makers and coaches who will undoubtedly gravitate to a program like MTA linked in with the professional system. It's happening all over the US and MN will be no different. You can spout derogatory remarks till you're powder blue in the face by the game moves on and will leave some behind. God bless all the parents volunteers and hired DOCs with the community clubs. Don't forget your "job" though - provide a safe and enjoyable soccer environment for the kids in your own communities who choose to play close to home. You are not in a decision making place to look out for your club name, you are in place to look out for the players in your community and should FULLY support any of their desires to look elsewhere. It's black and white. Any other reactions from you are based in personal agenda and you should step down and make way for the many others who would be involved for the players. I wish all the MTA people would simply boycott this blog. Just like the Shekkis of the world poorly represent the community club people some of you here poorly represent the many good people involved with MTA. Shekki is a little flame who needs the reactive O2 to survive. Let him preach his nonsense to no one and he'll fade into obscurity sooner than later.
"God bless all the parents volunteers and hired DOCs with the community clubs. Don't forget your "job" though - provide a safe and enjoyable soccer environment for the kids in your own communities who choose to play close to home. You are not in a decision making place to look out for your club name, you are in place to look out for the players in your community and should FULLY support any of their desires to look elsewhere."
I have gone to several Community Club Web sites and have not been able to find any stating their purpose consistant with your OPINION of what that purpose should be. I am not sure it is your place to tell any DOC or CC volunteers what their "JOB" is as defined by you. The arrogance of the self proclaimed MTA experts such as yourself volunteering your opinion on what the purpose of a CC is and what the "Job" of those involved should encompass only feeds the fire of those who resent the belittling attitudes of the "experts" hired by MTA.
Just so you know, there are many professional decision makers and coaches who are very focused on player development and team success at the local more Community based clubs.
This is not written with Hate as so often is labeled anything that disagrees with the MTA agenda. I a parent of two girls who play on very succesful Community Club teams, (measured in wins and losses and development) am offended by your defining the roles I, or our DOC should assume just because you think you know what is best for my kids soccer experience.
If the MTA model works for you great, I wish you the best, but I am not willing to accept your "all knowing" OPINION of how my kids Soccer Club should be run. You don't like the degrading remarks about MTA (I agree) yet you assume the responsibility to pass on your degrading remarks (I know you didn't even think they were degrading remarks which proves your arrogance)about our responsibilities in a community club.
Sorry for my rant, I rarely post on here but this one struck a nerve.
Fear or envy? Right on the money describing most who speak out against elite clubs.
Egos? Maybe egos but that's a common ingredient in many many clubs in MN.
Greed? I don't think so. When you have 6 directors sharing a coaching director budget of less that $125,000 it's not greed that keeps these soccer professionals with MTA. It's vision, passion, and desire for something better in MN.
I side with 1009 here. Volunteers and paid coaching directors in community clubs need to focus on the KIDS in their communities and what is best for them regardless of choices they make. To say they should "know their place" is a bit demeaning but the thought is right. It's really pretty simple. Issues come when DOCs and board members hinder player movement to non-community based options or because it may cause a loss of revenue for the DOC or the club. Doesn't happen everywhere in CC land but it's more frequent than some might want to believe.
12:26, best post on here in 3 months, well done well said. 10:08 and 1:33 you MTA guys keep on like that you are turning more players and parents off every time you make idiotic statements l;ike that. Keep talking.
P.S. I thought MTA /Goobers did not speak ill of the other clubs?
I read the posts on here and I am the parent of a Bangu girl (currently u13). I have had 2 good years in the program and this past year was not. Frankly, it was more coaching/team related than anything at a 'programatic level'. This year I am going to test the waters at tryouts like many of the parents I speak with to see what is out there at other clubs. Of course there are irrational zealots pro and anti Bangu everywhere but for the most part the vast majority are regular families that have kids at various degrees of skill looking to find a good experience. My daughter is higher level so we get the 'calls and inquiries' from cc clubs and others about their program which is fine (once the word gets out it is amazing how small the community is). the nature of soccer today is for the top level players there are plenty of good options available and it really comes down to personal preference. in our case, we don't see a clear vision for the next stage for our daughter in the current team/program so like most parents when this happens we are going to look elsewhere. frankly we may end up staying with bangu or coming back in the future for that matter. my only add to an earlier post is that i agree that this year i hear more parents from my team (and from other teams we encounter) looking to change. the fact is, when cut out the crap on here, the truth is that bangu has come in and created a competitive program that has forced clubs (competitive and cc) to either raise their standards or lose players. this year in particular, it seems there are more choices than ever for high level players which is great. i realize that to compete nationally (or regionally)at state cup (and events that follow) people think MN needs a more consolidated group of super teams. having experienced state cup, yes it is a big event (and the downstream impact) but there is much more to the season for our family than that. the clubs we are talking to also travel out of state, compete in regional events, play state cup, etc. so for our family that works.
the moral of the story is obvious that the majority of families 'do the right thing' and pick a place that makes sense for their child and family. it is just sensationalism to paint 'all-bangu people' or 'all-cc people' with a broad stroke.
anon 1:42, Bangu had about 7-8 teams 6 years ago and now just under the BNG, BTE, BTN entities has 40 teams. Guess people are running away from the program, eh? Nice try but the numbers coming to tryouts increase every year. You can bad mouth whatever and whoever you want but it doesn't change the facts. The club has grown greatly in numbers and greatly in the number of high caliber teams. People ARE voting with their feet....they keep flocking to the top club in the state.
1:42, who is speaking out against CCs? Looks like people are calling out some decision makers not CC programming. People like you look for hate when sometimes there is not much at all.
I personally think both 1226s AND 1009s posts are some of the best on here as of late. To each their own.
336, Some of the U13's on your team are good. Some are better than others, but I wouldn't call any of them higher level. That can be said of pretty much all of the girls at this age group playing their age group. Maybe a couple of higher level players playing on older teams. Higher level players are capable of taking over games and dominating opponents and getting results. I'm sorry but I didn't see any of those players on any team at State Cup.
U13 parents really need to quit posting on here. No wonder your team is falling apart. You will be doing yourself (and your daughter) a huge favor if you keep your thoughts off the computer screen.
voiceofreason, pretty sure if you can post on here anyone can. How about you don't tell everyone what to do and read only what you want to. Have at it U13 parents. This is a blog for soccer and that does include the U13 age group. Looking forward to tryouts!
4:01 being a parent involved, We were told repeatedly this was a top team with high level players by the Bangu people. We are happy to be there but you should not pretend to know what was or wasn't said if you were not part of the team. This is a strong team and the parents are united.
voiceofreason - if you take off the posts regarding u12 - u14 girls soccer and the player movements and issues that go on at this age all you have left is a debate around Shattuck versus bangu and whether minorities are more equipped to play soccer than whites. the u12 - u14 typically has the most interesting movement anyway (move to full 11 v 11, intro to state cup, more appeal for MTA, etc.) along with the newer competitive parents. this is the fun stuff! obviously its a perfect subject for a blog based on the volume of posts.
5:08 My child will only be attending MTA tryouts. Not a part of the U13 team, but do think that all have a right to be on this blog blogging about what they want too. My comment about Looking forward for tryouts simply means that I am looking forward to all the new faces this year. It is always fun to see who is coming to take a spot on the top team - no matter what club you are with!!
You're correct, you have every right to post on here. Never said you didn't.
Why let your actions stand alone(both of your daughters and as parents) when you can air the dirty laundry of your team all over a blog?
It's one thing having outsiders talk about teams, it is a whole different animal when people within the group feel they need to post to get the attention of others. Let you daughter's actions speak volumes and don't cloud it up with commentary on a blog.
Just a thought - no one says you have to agree with it.
I seriously dont get what people are getting so hyped up about. Wow, its a new name. Wow, a new team is joining with Bangu. There will be new players, different management but still the same effort to make a great team.
FOR THE PARENTS that think that their kid will not make it big, THANKS ALOT. We try because we care and THINK we will make it. If you ask anyone involved with bangu right now i'd bet alot of them would say their main ambition is to be a professional player.
So what if most of the pros right now came from local clubs that didn't 'recruit'. It doesnt mean that the best cant come out of a club that strived to be the best and did anything they could to get it. Any other club could have (but didnt) pulled a 'bangu' too. Recruited, formed a great team, had great management. They just didnt try hard enough and most likely dont care as much as i know we do.
I am so happy i left my team to come to Bangu. I hated being on a team when you passed the ball to someone, you could pretty much never count on them getting it to another one of your players.
Or in my situation, wanting to be in net because i knew i was better than our other keeper. no one could trust her. But then, they needed me on the field too. So it was pretty much more stressful and confusing than anything. Now with Bangu, i have had the opportunity to stay as a keeper and know that the people on the field during the game can be counted on and having me in the net, i can be counted on by others also, knowing that i am doing my best to help eachother win. theres such a strong sense of security with my team and the other bangu players. you dont hate having a certain someone on the field because you know they wont do anything; you like the people playing with you because they try and do a darn good job at it.
so big whoop, just give it rest. complaining about it now wont do anything it already happened and i hope all you parents notice that it will be for the benefit of the kids.
& if some of us do happen to make it big, stick that in your straw and suck it to whoever thinks that we cant make an actual career out of this.
i dont know if you are negative towards your kids because your parents told you that you couldnt do whatever it was that you wanted to do, but i sure as hell hope my parents dont think the same thing as you.
thanks, i try. seriously though, everyone hates on us for no reason. no one says you HAVE to join. no one says you HAVE to like us, people should just keep their comments to themselves. & if you have a problem with the driving situations, say from duluth, join gittchi gummi or whatever. NO ONE SAYS YOU HAVE TO PLAY FOR US.
and some people say the pros came from local clubs anyway. why dont you stick to that philosiphy.
the only people that bash bangu or us 'goons are whiney babies that are just jealous that they dont have the same opportunities. & anyone can be a referee, we dont have to pretend.
As it was put earlier, anyone has a right to post if you do too...I hope that "players point of view" is a player because it is good to hear their side too. Too many parents think they are helping being by pushing their kid into something or coaching on the sidelines when it's the kid's life, not theirs.
Anyways, her posts are much more mature than every single reply to them. The real losers on this blog are the ones that attack the person, their personality and intelligence rather than disagreeing with the opinions by providing their own opinion with actual facts to back themselves up.
There are so many people flocking to so-called cc's from your banner in the U12-U14 girls range that even your hair-brained leaders must be wondering what will be left. I am sure you'll fill rosters, but you may need to come up with a new color scheme for these teams (maybe black and blue?).
If that was indeed a player, maybe more time needs to be spent in school and not on the soccer field so they could learn how to spell and write complete sentences. No scholarship prospect based on writing ability.
Big deal. Satire and psuedonyms have been used for centuries to convey a point. Attacking the writer and calling them names makes the attacker look foolish because they have no real arguement other than not liking what was written. If you have a point, make it. If you don't, why bother to spew verbal vomit(written obviously) to the rest of us?
8:29, you have no idea unless you are somehow in cahoots with Tim Donaghy and he's turned his sights on youth soccer. You don't even know yet who will be on what team. It's a little early for State Cup smack talk. Besides, this blog is about MTA, and unless we are still on the "my club wins more State Cups than yours" taunting, how 'bout we bring this back to some actual useful discussion?
Anyone have an actual opinion on things that MTA might need to do to get to the level of a Dallas Texans or FC Delco? How about when or if development has to start showing results on the field by the nature of the level the players are achieving? Can MTA achieve this with current coaches in the system or will a shake up be necessary (please use actual examples and specifics if you want to discuss)?
I have a daughter currently playing on a Bangu team. Since moving to Bangu she has made new friends, improved as a soccer player, and is very happy. My wife and I have enjoyed making new friends and watching our daughter develop as both a player and a person. She is not the next Mia. She is a young woman who loves to play soccer. We were not unhappy at our cc but wanted a different experience than our cc could offer (year round training, out of state tournaments). At the end of each year we discuss the past season with our daughter to decide if we should stay will Bangu or go back to our cc. Every club/team has good and bad points. I don't agree with everythig Bangu does but I didn't agree with everything our cc did either. She will be trying out for MTA. In the end that is the best choice for her.
just to let you know, there arent alot of other places for us to go that we feel have the same standards as mta. in a sense were stuck, but i like it here, so im not going to even think about trying out for a different club. and yeah, i am a player. going to be u16 this year.
9:21, dont force your daughter to do anything. just because you think its the best choice for her doesnt mean she thinks the same thing. trust me, i went through this with my parents.
when i joined bangu i was the only one from my former team of 3 years to leave. i knew i could get alot better with bangu & that was MY decision. i told my parents to leave me alone and let me make the choice. it was awfully hard, and i definately dont regret it.
if you are pushing her too hard, she might not be telling you something. maybe that she doesnt want soccer her main priority but feels that telling you that will be a disappointment.
My daughter isn't being forced to play for Bangu. In fact it would be easier for us as a family if she played for the cc (shorter commutes to practice and less expensive). That is why we have discussions about what is best for all involved. Decisions can't be made in a vacuum. All points must be considered and choices evaluated.
Player- Good for you for coming in and making your points clearly to the "adults". I commend you for your drive and desire. I really hope that my daughter's SSM team chooses to play State Cup this year as you are the same age group. I love to see her team on the field with other determined, driven players because I know the result will be a great competitive game on the field- regardless of score.
I wish to make no commentary regarding what the final outcome will be, as I have no idea. Good luck to you and your team, I look forward to a few years of competitive games/meetings between the two teams!
Just had to weigh in. Many of you who post with regards to your U-11 to U-14 kids need to get a clue. From the experiences I've had with my own daughter (somewhere between U-16 and U-18) and conversations with other parents and coaches who've been through this before, I can tell you that it's time to step back and put things in perspective. My daughter will play in a strong D-1 program if she wants to, but, as she has gotten older, realizes there is more to life than just soccer. Trying to juggle soccer with studies, figuring out where she wants to go to college, which schools will be willing to offer her what, whether those schools offer the academic situation that is best for her and then trying to juggle her friends into all of this can be overwhelming for a 16-18 year old. Many of her teammates of her very top level team are, frankly, burned out by years of soccer inmduced pressure. We, as a family have from time to time had to take a step back from it all. She has bordered on "burnout" from time to time. From watching her teammates go down with ACL, etc., to her own injuries, we become to realize that it is a long process. I bring this to the attention of all of you who have younger kids coming up because many of you are going too fast and putting way too much pressure on your kids. As for my daughter, she has not needed Bangu for her development as her travel CC coaches have been very outstanding. As I stated, she is regarded as one of the top ten prospects within her age group and is being sought after by many well respected D-1 programs. That said, this player has worked hard through her CC experiences. We as parents will have spent less than $12K for seven years of travel. She has already played before any college coach from any school she will potentially attend and hopefully it will work out when it's said and done. My advice to your 11-14 year old is to find a club with a good reputation, have your kid work their tail off and then ask yourself if she is having fun playing---as much fun as it is for you as a parent bragging on here about the next MIA?
1141, Thanks for the great parenting advice. Next time I need advice on child rearing I will remember to ask anonymous 1141. How does someone elses injuries or their own injuries correlate to burnout. I would think the time away would be good for her. Maybe you were pushing her to hard like you claim everyone else does at the younger ages.
i was just saying that i have been having more fun playing with bangu because i have that drive and desire to play.
playing with my local clubs, two different ones, i was so stressed out because i couldnt count on my team except for the select people.
one of which after i had left, followed and now is on the same team as me and she deserves it.
i dont think many parents realize how stressful it is for a player that is determined and has the desire to win, to play with other kids who arent even close to the same level. im not saying all local clubs are bad, but where most of the players that i played with came from was rec soccer and i wasnt having it.
sometimes, in tournaments towards the semis or quarters, my old local team would WANT to lose because they were tired or they wanted to go back home because they had dates or plans with their friends. thats not desire, and i dont like playing with kids like that.
yeah sometimes bangu jampacks a ton of practices, scrimmages, games, tournaments, along with homework and high school sports but if we didnt want to be doing all of it, dont you think we would have told you already?
to tell you the truth, if i am not busy, im not happy. always being busy during the school year made it that much better and go by that much faster.
1141 you have more or less identified yourself if you are giving truthful information. There are no current U17 or U18 players that are in the top 10 in their age group that both do not play for Bangu and have not committed to a college and also could play for a strong D1 program. As far as U16 goes it is difficult to consider WDB a CC team as they recruit and have players from as many communities as Bangu does.
sorry if my grammar isnt perfect. i was just trying to get my point across. not everyone on here has to explain themselves with tons of fancy words, complete sentences, and a sprinkle of pizzaz on everything.
if you really like it that much, go busy yourself with a dictionary, a theasaurus or your high school english teacher. maybe you will end up learning more than EVERYBODY on here, and can show off then. otherwise, just back off please.
sorry if i wanted to put my opinion out there and it wasnt perfectly executed. my mistake bud.
1:20: If you really are a player, good luck on your ACT/SAT. That said, I really hope your respective admissions counselor for the college of your choice can be bent by the soccer coach, if it's your desire to play in college.
you dont know me, dont judge me. all i have told anyone who looks at this is my opinion on whats happening to the club. i bet if i never told anyone i was a player and didnt mention anything about it, you would not be bashing me about my spelling mistakes. take a break, this is about bangu/wings/thunder. not my grammar or how well ill do on the act/sat.
people like you should all be named debby downer. thats what you are. a downer that says stupid stuff just to get attention.
well im not going to reply to you anymore because you are definately not worth my time.
good luck with all your negativity. i hope it takes you somewhere someday.
he is just jealous that he doesnt have the same high quality soccer program from SSM whatever that is.
so you have smart people GOOD JOB. too bad you dont have smart & athletic people like we do.
most people on my team get A's and B's all year. few slip ups with C's for some people, but having a good team required thinking outside the box, and most of those people are really smart.
I really do not understand why some parents are so hyped up about this merger with bangu/wings/thunder. If your child is not playing for either of the two teams then why do you care? Why waste your time with something you have no control over. Just let it go.
Same old Goober response they fear or hate us. Therefore it blunts fair critcism of the practices employed. Good strategy but people have and will catch on to the game, in fact listening to parents many already have.
11:41 I would like to know what top 10 player you are as well?? Are you a top 10 CC player, MN player, regional player or Natl player?? And, what colleges are after you?? Please share, you opened it up, please finish it.
As I sit here in Blaine hanging at Caribou prior to my State Tournament game I thought I'd chime in this discussion. I work for a CC though unlike some of my colleagues posting here I don't believe MTA is against the CC model. I am proud of what we have accomplished in our community for the kids and for the community itself. I would be proud again if any of our players made the jump to the MTA elite teams. We cannot offer what MTA will offer though there may be some other CCs who feel differently based on their resources, registration numbers, etc. Many in our club have actively encouraged players to seek out other team options in their best interest especially if we don't think we can provide adequate training for them. It's been difficult at times as the loss of players has forced us to scramble to field summer teams now and again but most of us realize that it comes with the territory. Just like there are some Bangu-MTA-Wings people whose posts on here reflect negatively on their entire program, there are some CC supporters whose posts reflect poorly on the rest of us. Be careful when building labels and stereotypes like this and I would hope that many people can see past the few bad examples proffered by both sides in this ongoing debate. As for the recruiting - it happens all the time in our club from our recreational program to our competitive program, with teams trying to raid lower level teams of their top players from looking to other teams outside our community for players. I've spoken with many of our club officials and coaches and we're all working under the same pretense - MYSA's recruiting rules are not only a bunch of bologna but moreover completely hypocritical as long as a group like Shattuck is allowed to field teams in our competitions. Some of our players have been contacted numerous times throughout this past year to come and go to school and play soccer in Faribault. Who is policing Shattuck? How can MYSA even pretend to enforce recruiting rules if they hold exceptions? Until this is addressed by our state association our club will not, like many others out there, abide by any MYSA policy regarding this subject. As I said I'm very proud to be associated with the co-workers and the community I'm involved with. I love the game of soccer and have witnessed the growth in the game over the past decade here in Minnesota. I know the work that we do along with the work that the elite clubs do have helped promote this growth and I wish MTA and the Thunder all the best in their new program. I've know many of their current leadership group for a long time and believe they have the vision and expertise to pull something like this off. Yes, I'm out here even supporting the most hated guy on this blog - MA. Our state needs more passionate and experienced professionals like him to see the next evolution of the game. From what I've seen our ranks of qualified coaches and leaders like him are swelling. It's an exciting time for Minnesota soccer!
4:35, thanks for that post. Such a breath of fresh air. I fully agree with each point. I am not Bangu, MTA or SSM, nor am I so pro-CC that everything else must be considered evil. I am a parent who loves to watch my kids play soccer wherever THEY decide they want to play. And I love watching their friends, teammates and opponents play wherever THEY want to play.
Anon 4:35- Why is MYSA hypocritical by "allowing" Shattuck to participate in "your" events? It wasn't MYSA who allowed it, it was USYSA. You know, the National guys. Take up your argument wtih USYSA, not MYSA. But, be prepared to not win that argument.
One other thing, are you trying to say that pre-Shattuck all the recruiting rules were followed by the clubs of the day?
I read your statement that you began breaking the rules and refusing to abide by them only after Shattuck came into the picture. Is this what you are saying?
halo? Are you kidding me? That clownshow went 0-2-1 and blew their chance at earning a premier spot (U14) tonight (can't wait to hear AK explain that fumble), losing to TC Fire! So all of the crap about MTA fielding three premier teams next year at U14 is officially debunked. Try another line of gas, boys, and give the halo to someone deserving.
How does Bangu get even two premier teams at U14? Only the Wings U13 earned a spot and that presumably would roll over to MTA, but what other? Wings barely squeeked by Rochester in points with a 2-2 tie last night and Burnsville had the edge on Tonka all night with a 2-0 win, the only team to win all three state games. Woodbury and Maplebrook tied at 0-0.
Somehow the Wings players will get ripped off as a result of the heady promises that have been made the past few weeks. Talk of 3 premier spots and only getting 1, someone will be hurt and it wont be the Bangu players who claim promises have been made
This "Merger " really looks good for the Wings players right now doesn't it?
Read post from 28/7/08 2:10. 1:42 ("Wings is not becoming Bangu, they're just partnering with them."
I would say very few "Mergers" are really mergers. Those involved will all talk a good game about wanting to pull from the strength of both Clubs, but at the end of the day the current Bangu management/board will run this club. The main reason the locals are/were courted is to try to give the appearance of a community based organization in order to have better access to fields.)
There are several other interesting posts near this one all revolving around speculation about the basis of this blending of Wings into Bangu.
If I were a Wings player that earned the Premier spot I would be watching my back. What a bummer for them, EARN a spot and then lose it because your club was essentially taken over.
Congratulations to the six newest MN Premier League teams at U-14 for 2009. They are MPB, Woodbury, Burnsville, Tonka, Twin Cities Fire and Wings. Obviously, the Wings entry, a "true" U-13 team made it as a "Wings only" team. It should be interesting to see how this team disembles over the next two weeks. How long before the Wings former BOD crawls under the floorboards and disappears?
So, an already good, premier level team is about to have many more kids show up at try-outs. This should only make the team stronger and give it more depth.
I am having a hard time understanding how this is a negative thing?
the tea leaves for the MTA u14 group is simple. they have 1 premier slot (thanks to wings) and 1 or 2 u14c1 slots (the one earned by AK u12 team in the east) and I would assume the one in the south might have earned (4-7-1?). they also will likely get a u14 MRL slot from the u13 team that played u14 premier. knowing their emphasis on state cup, they will make 2 u14 teams to compete at state cup, one that will be the MRL team (for those from u13 playing premier) and the rest of the age group that will try out for the spot earned by Wings (sorry Wings players, get ready for u14c1)these will be strong teams because the talent pool is bigger. The 2 true u12 teams that played up will stay at u13 and compete at State Cup and league. MA's dream team at u11 will probably skip u12 and play u13 as well. so all in all, they will be able to put something together with all the available options from being a consolidated club. that said, many girls will get left in the competitive shuffle (not necessarily bad) and that's where good ccs can offer a spot. before anyone implies that that means that ccs get the 'leftover' talent that is not true. just like bangu recruiters are sticking their hands in cc pockets so too are the ccs sticking their hands in bangu pockets. the healthy side of the competition between MTA and CC is that everyone is forced to raise their level of training and offering to top players. the unhealthy side is the way some people on both sides go about it. the world of sports (and business) from youth to adult is no different in that it envelopes peoples lives and creates strong emotions. so the polyanna's or utopians that come on this board and try to say 'get over it it is only youth sports' have a great theory but this is life. anyway, tryouts are coming, hold on!
Glad to hear you all know so much what is going to happen with the MTA premier spot but you are all very wrong.
The MTA Blue team will play MRL only, that team will consist of the top 17 players, Wings, Bangu or whoever
The MTA White team will play MRL and MYSA Premier, The Wings players who do not make the top team will most likely make this team, along with a few of the Bangu players who don't make the top team and whoever else shows up.
My guess is the number of Wings kids on the premier team would have been the same regardless of the merger because having a premier spot would have attracted new players anyways. Its all a fact of life, competition breeds success and the MTA White team will benefit from this.
to 10:57 - why do you say very wrong. that is basically what the post said. an MRL team and a premier team at u14. both will play state cup. is MTA really not going to have any u14c1 teams? not much presence or opportunity for south based kids i assume
I think Dakota Rev and Lakeville are the only other clubs to have a U-14 C1 team in the south metro if the Bangu south team doesn't play MYSA at U-14 C1. Eagan and Prior Lake were relegated and Roch is a bit of a commute for Metro kids.
REV's spot was earned by their group of true 12's last year. Will they fill that roster or will they play 13 again? If they play 13 again we are down to Lakeville only.
Looks like no matter what the South teams will have to be blended with either teams that traditionaly play in the East or the West. As mentioned many times on here this age group is weak.
The upcoming u13 girls group will be very strong to the point that the 2 time depending champs from north metro might not even be top 5. bangu (1 if not 2 teams), dakota rev, ep, burnsville, cottage grove, north metro, and edina will all have teams at a higher level than many of the teams in this year's event. there will be plenty of player movement this year so although bangu u12e would be the 'favorite' today, it will likely change. these teams will also be better prepared for state cup because they are more atune to year round training.
REV have many current u13 players playing up a year (a total of seven, 5 on the U14 team that just earned premier) and already many new to be 14's have signed up so they will have a very competetive team that will train 2-3 times a week starting Septmeber. The reason they did not have a true U13 team this year is becasue that team left a few years ago for a certain club but now the club feel they have and will have enough talent to again form a new U14c1 team. if nothinge else the lague need them otherwise their will only be three teams from the south =)
The key for the strong teams U-13 (next season) from Burnsville, Eden Prairie,Edina ,Cottage Grove, and North Metro will be the depth of the talent on each teams roster. Moving to 11v11 obviously requires more depth of talent. I have seen all of the above teams play at least once and agree with the post indicating them being the most likely canidates to have a great 2009 season. What couldn't be judged was the strength of the "bench" players.
Hard to write off the Bangu teams due to speculation on player movement, Some may leave but others may come to those teams. Bangu E took second in their league and advanced to MYSA State, and the south team finished middle of the pack. Rev team looked good also finishing second in the South (they played 13 as 12's too)
Should be fun because of the number of well established strong teams.
Good call moving White Bear into the mix. Edina deserves top ten status for sure, and EP is very good on the 8v8 field which I think moves them up on the list
10:27 - good chart but i think MTA white is too high (if you are implying that team is coming from the u12 south team). top 10 but not top 3. edina needs to be in there
anyone have predictions on the u13 final tonight? i haven't seen the games but the scores seem to lean towards burnsville
OK I'll take a crack at the top u-13 teams next year. Clear advantage to the teams that played 11v11 this year.( especially in State Cup)
1. Bangu E 2. Dakota REV 3. Cottage Grove 4. Bangu S 5. Eden Prairie 6. Edina 7. North Metro 8. PSA 9. Burnsville 10. Tonka (if they consolidate talent) or White Bear
Bangu has currenlty 4 U12 teams. One East One West Two South A few U11's playing on South and West teams. When all the True U12's go to tryouts along with kids coming to tryouts for the first time you will see a very deep age group. With that being said that is why I ranked them Number 3 on my list. Also some of the top teams may lose some of their top players to MTA, thus hurting their teams. Goal scoring will be harder to come by on the second team since most of the dangerous attacking players will be on the top team. In my opinion the 2nd MTA will be very sound, but probably be lacking scoring.
good assessment 11:24. don't forget that the 'Bangu' group might lose a few incumbents too. i believe the number of kids going to MTA in this age group will be lower than others just because there are so many more good options. I am not sure you could convince the top kids from any team on that list to move to MTA given the strength of the team as you imply. The chatter is actually the reverse. other than AK, the coaches in that group are not destination coaches that i can gather. frankly, this age group (upcoming u13) could field a highly competitive Mn regional team if you consolidated the talent that 'played up'. i know that is the MTA argument but the MTA brand at this age group isn't that great (beyond what is laready there). that is the downside to 'playing up' is that the rest of the player pool at the age group doesn't see them during the previous season. i also don't buy the 11 v 11 advantage as a big factor (some factor, not big). most of the teams will play fall competitive soccer and junior high so they will get exposed to it. plus for those teams to get better they are going to have add new players anyway and they will have to re-learn working together. most goals at u13 are still individual athletic plays so a great 1 on 1 u12 player moving up can still take over a game and beat a more technically sound team that can't finish (as you contemplate). ideally MTA would field a team that could travel to big events but still play with their own teams (more US Club Soccer for this age group). If the maligned ODP program could bring them together without the MTA banner they could compete regionally. the net is, there are going to be about 10 good teams and no great one (from a regional perspective) at least for now
1159, Thanks for the compliment! Your right they could lose several current members of the east team. I feel the loss would be the result of not making the top team and maybe not wanting to play on a second team. That happens every year. There is also the chance someone will choose to go elsewhere due to different reasons. With that being said the U12 east team is very strong from top to bottom. Unfortunately for all the girls this age group is extremely deep and has a strong presence and a strong team already in the south. Half of this team could be different next year. The south team has a handful of very talented players. There are also a couple real good players who play up who might be thrown in the mix also. Even if no new players come from outside Bangu and Wings you are looking at a new and improved team which should be able to compete regionally:) It should be fun!!
I have to be somewhat cynical here. I don't necissarily disagree with any of your points, and I'm delighted that more mature discourse is happening after only a thousand posts, but are we seriously ranking U13 teams? Does anyone else get a little disturbed that we are putting so much emphasis and pressure on a bunch of girls, many of whom may just be hitting puberty?
This is a very valuable time for skill and game intelligence development, and those that embrace that type of learning the quickest (provided they have the proper environment and guidance/coaching) will be successful and probably have the best record so I'm not suggesting taking winning out of the picture. It's a sport, so there are winners and losers and much character development is to be had at this stage if we don't wuss out our kids with feel-good crap. The only problem I see is that tryouts aren't even over, we're ranking teams out the gate and trying to predict the 2010 U14 premier league. A little too intense I think.
I have to be somewhat cynical here. I don't necissarily disagree with any of your points, and I'm delighted that more mature discourse is happening after only a thousand posts, but are we seriously ranking U13 teams? Does anyone else get a little disturbed that we are putting so much emphasis and pressure on a bunch of girls, many of whom may just be hitting puberty?
This is a very valuable time for skill and game intelligence development, and those that embrace that type of learning the quickest (provided they have the proper environment and guidance/coaching) will be successful and probably have the best record so I'm not suggesting taking winning out of the picture. It's a sport, so there are winners and losers and much character development is to be had at this stage if we don't wuss out our kids with feel-good crap. The only problem I see is that tryouts aren't even over, we're ranking teams out the gate and trying to predict the 2010 U14 premier league. A little too intense I think.
1:23 - i am one of those in theis discussion and it's is purely meant to be a pleasant dialogue. a better way of saying it would probably be where are the best places for a high level player (commitment and skill) to find a good place to play soccer next year. i am excited that this is a good age group for mn and there are opportunities for them to play. the 'winning' and 'ranking' isn't much different than pre-season polls on espn but that is the fun of speculation. i am holding my breath and enjoying the 'positive' discussion but waiting for the typical hostile deterioration of the discussion that I hope doesn't come. u12 to u13 and u13 to u14 are two interesting transitions with the advent of 11 v 11 and the introduction of state cup and premier to new families. this is a good place to give information on which teams to look out for and frankly if anyone was interested in finding a new club for their child via tryouts this list would be a good place to start. of course there is some silliness to it but at least it isn't racism, bashing or favre.
1:23 - if you've followed this or any other thread on this blog that pertains to the younger girls ages, you should know by now that there are a handful of bloggers who's (most likely oldest) daughter falls into the U11-U14 age. Their posting volume is quite impressive. If the thread ever deviates from their daughter's ages for an extended period of time, then one of them lobs out a question which gets them all involved again.
Top U14 teams next year (Girls) 1) MTA (Bangu/Wings)(Current U13 playing Premier) 2) Burnsville 3) TCF 4) Woodbury 5) Tonka 6) Maplebrook 7) Rochester 8) PSA 9) MPLS United
153, you may be right, but for myself I try to talk about age groups I know about that are not my daughters. I don't think much about bloggers who post pretending not to be the parent of the kid they are typing about. By the way my daughters are the BOMB and very good at soccer also!! LOL
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I believe that you and I have achieved a first on this blog...agreement. Your cautionary initial post is very well founded I think since I would agree that many interpret a single study to be gospel.
As far as who MTA recruits, we'll leave that to be seen who shows up to their tryouts in a couple weeks. I know that Wings provided availability to a fair amount of Liberian players that would not have been able to play club ball without help and certainly raised the level of play for several of their boys premier teams.
To address a statement by our apologetic poster, I think that you will find that MTA or anyone else would have difficulty recruiting/attracting female players of other ethnicities that are any better than our home grown kids primarily out of environment. America values female athletics far more than any other country, and MY experience has been that our girls (black, white or whatever) are better prepared for the challenges of the sport both physically and skill-wise than all but one of the foreign born players that I have ever coached due to that environmental influence.
As a current Bangu Parent I am very excited about tryouts and hope that the new merger with Thunder,Bangu and Wings brings out the most talented players Minnesota has to offer.
All this genetic jabber. All you have to be is conscious and pay attention and you'd know that genetics does play a factor.
4:25.....Our coaches wouldn't know a real Player if they bumped into them. Not only that they wouldn't know how to use him.
I meant 6:52. I'm an idiot.
I have been to 5 ODP camps with boys of differnt ages. Region 2 (and MN) do tend to select players of color over white players with the same skill and capability level. I'm sure there are a variety of reasons for it. Some are probably racism working in reverse (e.g. players of color are more agressive or more hungry for success.) The fact is that too many non-white MN players do not go on to play college soccer. Again, there are probably a variety of reasons.
MTA is just a more organized version of where Bangu was headed - four district clubs and an emphasis on MRL play for the top teams. With the Wings added as the West club, the only change to the current system is the addition of the North club.
Based on the girls teams, I question whether the emphasis on MRL will be much of an improvement over the status quo - maybe a small step. The U17 girls had three teams playing MRL 1st division, and two in the MRL Premier division. The 1st division results were very similar to the MYSA Premier League results. This is also true of play at U14. The MRL Premier division is a cut above, but the MRL 1st division appears to be a lot of travel and expense to play similar competition to MYSA.
There has consistently been a team at the top level (recently Tsunami Sota, St. Croix Eclectic, Bangu Stars, Woodbury Inferno, and Bangu Blue U14) developed through former or current systems. The MYSA Premier division is equal to the next level (MRL 1st division), and there are already many teams playing at that level from several clubs in MN.
If MTA can get their Blue teams to the national level, and their White teams to the MRL Premier level consistently, it will be an improvement over current results. If not, parents will be paying more , teams will travel a lot more, and athletes will be foregoing more opportunities for no improvement in results.
What advice can you guys give people who live hours away from the MTA academy, where playing there is not an option?
MTW (formerly Wings) already has kids driving down from Duluth and Fargo...it's always an option.
If you kid just wants to have fun and enjoy a sport for what it is, play with your local (or closest) club. If your kid wants a shot at the highest levels available to Minnesotans, take out a second mortgage to pay for gas and drive to the metro area and join a metro club.
Or check out the opportunities at SSM.
Thanks for the responses. He does play for a good local club with a great coach and has tested higher-level training/competition the last couple of years.
I have no idea how people join a club hours away; I'd get in a bad mood the day before ODP training knowing that I was going to waste (err, invest) most of my Sunday on it, and that was just one day a week for a month or two.
Has any thought been given to satellite outstate teams so everyone doesn't have to drive hours back and forth to the Cities?
4:25 - Keep dreamin. Your current Bangu player will be up against existing Bangu players and those Wings players who want to be part of this program. Most talented players I know of with other clubs have said they have no interest in switching clubs and will stay where they are and will be playing Premier, MRL, etc. next year. No incentive to switch clubs from the families I have talked to. Bangu can spin this anyway they want to, most are smart enough to know its more of the same.
I think too many people on this blog are of the thinking the MTA wants to get every talented player in MN into their club. I would highly doubt that to be the case. I think they know their elite program isn't for everyone and I would hope they are interested only in the players that WANT to play in that environment. I know for myself, I'm more interested in coaching the kids that want to play for me and I'm willing to pass up decent players that are just going to be a pain in my rear.
And more of the same is bad?
Most clubs would like to win just 1State Cup title and Bangu has wn 7 or 8 each of the last three years.
It's no secret why they have more players attending their tryouts each year.
Last year they had many of the fields at Ft Snelling rented for several days trying to accomodate the huge numbers showing up to tryout.
No reason to think this year will be any different.
Top players who want to excel at the collegiate and professional levels will seek MTA out. No doubt about it regardless of where the first team is in the standings. MTA will simply have the best development option for talented players. Shouldn't we all want that? Shouldn't we want our top players playing together? Do you think US Soccer, all the MLS teams, and an increasing number of USL pro teams all have it wrong? Do you think the entire European youth development system is wrong? Do you think the admin people at MYSA or the volunteer parents who run the show at the CCs know more about elite player development? You're blind if you think that. No other way to put it. You just haven't seen enough. And don't give me any BS that it's the DOCs who make decisions at CCs. Not happening.
Doesn't matter really as if you can't see it you're child is not the type for this program. Others will come and MN soccer will be better for it. There will always be the stud player with a family deeply rooted to their community, players who go on to have fantastic soccer careers. That's fine and that's their choice. But that's not commonplace by any stretch of the imagination. Serious talent will find other serious talent. That's why there are different programs out there and that's the way the world works. Deal with it.
1:29 no idea who you're responding to. I'm sure too that there will be a big tryout. So what? But can every Bangu parent on here please quit putting it up on a pedestal? When MTA is able to emulate Dallas Texans (5 teams in Nationals) then you have something to brag about that is meaning full, at which point humility is in order anyway. Bangu/MTA is the big fish in a small pond. It has its good points and bad points, good coaches and bad coaches, successes and failures and on and on and on...
To go back to an earlier subject with their relationship with MYSA, I think the real question is going to be, will they have the cajones to take on the MSHSL and their life controlling rules about players not being allowed to train if they are in a HS program?
2:40, you say, "MTA will simply have the best development option for talented players." Prove it. I don't see much more than slick promoters and aggressive recruiters.
does this thread need to be a constant ad for MTA? MA has delightful posts if you want sophomoric advertising copy. Here's one, 14 premier team o-fer in league let's hear the MTA spin on that. They had hand picked the team and coach? These are the great soccer minds we want in charge?
From what I understand MTA is not a Academy. It is a name of a Club. Its advantage will be the lack of parental involvement in player development issues. The problem for them will be cost.
5:12 - wasn't that the U13 team playing up? I believe their top U14 team made it to regional semi's.
5:50,
You're right. The poster at 5:12 jsut stuck his foot in his mouth.
Typical for the ignorant bashers who really don't have aclue about which team is which.
anon 5:12,
So why don't you take this opportunity to tell us of all the new and innovative ideas and strategies clubs other than Bangu have implemented to improve the level of player development here in Minnesota.
We're all eager to hear about it.
That way we won't have to hear anything more about Bangu...right?
5:12...
Did you know that team that you talk about did not lose a game against any team at it's true age group all year?
Look at their in-state tournament results at their own age group.
The Bangu U-14p team was the best U-13 team in MN. That isn't really a huge bragging point as you can see that age group is the weakest age group in the state.
Proof: U-14p Bangu team can't win one game playing up. (to premier I grant you yet still not one victory). There were three U-12 teams playing C1 at the 13 age group all did fairly well, or at least they did well compared to the u-14p teams record.
East district: Bangu 8-3-1 (second place in their league and advanced to State)
South District: Dakota Rev 7-3-2( second place in league)
Bangu South 4-7-1.
I doubt any of the U-12 teams are made of dominant Superstars, yet they played up far more effectively than did the 14P team, which tells me the age group is weak.
As far as tournament play is considered, Congratulations to the 14p team , as said earlier you are the best in a "soft" age group.
There will be quite a bit of consolidation in the current U13 age group as the kids this age see who the true premier teams are.
That's the way it always works.
Tryouts for premier teams at this age group draw big numbers.
I would say consolidation will be needed because the top teams at that age are good, but only good. The age groups ahead and behind this group are much deeper. Very odd in my opinion, any thoughts on why this age group is weaker, or are the surrounding ages just significantly stronger than average which makes them appear weak?
Hold on 7:46 am. "The Bangu Team u14p that played up to u14" was the best u-13 team in MN. Not true. They did not win State Cup at u13 which is the ultimate insult given the single focus Bangu puts on that event (remember leagues and summer state are non-events). how about we see how many of those sign on to play next year. from what i hear, that group is about to scatter.
9:48 They are the best U-13 team because the team that beat them at State Cup was a U-12 team :)
Clearly the Bangu emphasis on State Cup was inadvertantly misdirected to the U-12 team instead of the U-14P team. Thats what happens when you use colors to describe your teams and not names. Clearly the wrong Blue team was given the "top secret State Cup Kool Aid".
One of the points made above is true....Bangu's # 1 goal is to win State Cup and they are very open about it.
Winning State Cup is the strongest selling point a club can have.Remember this is a business.
of course the excuse goomachine is at full power today. When they won the east as 12's it was because of the academy training and superior coaching blah blah blah. Now it is "they were playing up" admit they failed to deliver as they promised the kids and parents on the team.
Wow! I for one have been vocally opposed to much of what Bangu does myself, but 11:43 and the rest of the "anti-goos" sound just as pathetic as the so-called "goos." It's no wonder MN soccer can't get into the upper eschelon regionally and nationally if this is the way we communicate and promote ourselves. Are you for promoting the good of the game or the good of yourself?
You all are trying so hard to slam coaches, coaching and club philosophies, but in the end, you're insulting a bunch of young kids just trying to play a sport that they love. Congratulations!
This would be much more pleasant if more than a couple sporatic bloggers exchanged actual ideas instead of slinging mud all over the place. I'm becoming embarassed to admit that I even read this blog anymore.
My opinion, who cares about individual results or win-loss records. Do you think when your kid goes and interviews for their first job out of college that their potential new boss is going to ask if they won state cup at U14 and if not, there is no way they are getting this job.
State Cup wins equate to the team that solved the problem at that specific moment in time. It means nothing 3 months later, especially around here where players (read parents) start shuffling around to find the next team to try for that vaunted spot atop the heap, only to try again the next year if that doesn't pan out.
Can MTA provide somewhere for the player that wants to play at the highest levels of competition if that is their thing? Maybe. Tryouts haven't even started yet so all this chatter is merely speculation. Can other clubs provide similar experiences? It would appear that way. Can we really call this a true academy? I don't think so, but for the kids and parents that are investing time and money, I hope it works out. If things I've read in other places like the Thunder possibly partnering with Burnley in England and giving kids and coaches the opportunity for player/coach exchanges, that would be pretty cool for those that get to do that. If the whole darn thing goes up in smoke, well it sucks for those involved, all the nay-sayers get a good laugh and then what? Who knows? Maybe NESA desides to be the next in line to try the superclub thing and you're all right back here spouting the same insults and making talking about how the U14 NESA boys flopped at state cup but that it wasn't fair because they were mostly U12's from their academy. ;b
Do adults really hate Bangu this much?
I've never been involved with Bangu in any way, so I'm not a "Bangoon," but from the outside looking in, Bangu certainly appears to be a soccer club filled with dedicated coaches, highly dedicated players, willing parents, and a rather successful history in MN.
I just don't see what there is to hate in that equation. Why do adults hate Bangu this much?
4:18, The hate is not there the Goo crew manufactures it to garner sympathy, basically claiming victim status as they go about their business. A big part of their pitch is their particularly keen eye for talent combined with their best coaches anywhere mated with a fool proof training program. In the case referred to above they never delivered to the kids or parents as they promised. They should take some heat not hate for it, it's what responsible morally centered adults do.
Bride of Shekki
Another Shekki and another idiot. You're marriage must be a good one.
If there were promises made and not delivered it makes perfect sense for people to want to bail. But from what I've seen this particular group is a parent controlled group and that has no place in MTA. However when you're talking about promises I think many CCs promise much more than Bangu did. CCs promise "we'll do the same thing Bangu does" and "you can find the same thing here next year, we're changing". Sometimes they live up to these statements many times they do not. Bangu on the other hand says "this is what we've done, this is our program, we're doing it and we're going to do the same thing again". There is a difference. One is an established leader with a proven program the other is usually a fledgling program that WANTS to provide the same thing but sometimes cannot.
I agree with the comments about regarding the parents posting on here about their DDs. Shut up.
6:24 Sorry, nice try. The Bangu now MTA group bills itself as controlled by "soccer pros" so now when things don't go their way it's parent controlled? Again a Bangu zealot attempting to have it both ways.
Long live shekki and bride!
Can we talk about summer state? Any new predictions?
This blog is a perfect microcosm of why the country is screwed up.
8:24 how in the world through your hate filled filters did you think 624 was saying MTA is parent controlled?
Watch here for a big MTA announcement on Sunday.
10:45 read what was written by 6:24
But from what I've seen this particular group is a parent controlled group
Simple 10:45, who do you think is writing the checks to support MTA? If there are Wings and Bangu parents who aren't comfortable with the new setup, they are going to go elsewhere.
How about some predictions for the MYSA State Tournament.
It's not the quality of the State Cup, but it is one of the best Tournaments for many MN teams. Several age groups have very strong competition amongst the qualifying teams.
Any Predictions ? For MTA, against MTA, it doesn't matter, right now this is the best consolodation of talented teams in the State playing off to a MYSA State Championship.( I'm trying to change the subject and the negativity of this latest string)
U12 Bangu girls playing U13 should win the state tournament for
U13G. They won the state cup so they should be front-runners, right?
The quality of Summer State is mostly the same as State Cup. For most brackets the teams are the same as in State Cup. Why would the quality be less?
anon 5:38
It's rare that the top teams or premier teams even play in the State tournament.
They have nowhere close to the top teams at U14 and up.
4:38,
Better pick yourself up and dust off. According to the MYSA site, Kaasa's team got run over in their first state game (3-0). Looks like Tonka is the favorite here (5-0 win over TC Fire). This will be tough on those U12 parents. At least you can say that you're playing up and that's why you lost!
Hater 9:13, shut up. Do you for one minute think that 4:38 was serious? State Cup winners don't guarantee anything in any tournament that follows. The 12s were best in MN on that given day. Who will claim that honor now? Probably not them. Looks like Bville or Tonka. Good for them. 12s can earn Premier still though, something none of the others at 13 can claim they did as 12s. Good for them.
10:12pm quit spouting about your DD's team, you sound like a sore loser.
Kaasa's team will win State Cup again next spring.
Life goes on.
3:49, I don't have a daughter on the 12 Bangu team, just stating facts instead of biases.
I'm still waiting for "the big MTA announcement on Sunday".
Allow Shekki to deliver the "big MTA announcement." I was going to wait until 11:59pm in true Goon fashion, but I'm just all atwitter right now and can't wait.
"Many of you have wondered just WHAT this mysterious element is that has made Bangu so successful in recent years, and how will they replicate it with MTA. Well, we are proud to share our secret. MTA is proud to announce that a select few players will have the opportunity to wear our fabulous crest for the upcoming season. Yes, you will pay a LOT of money for that privilege...unless you're REALLY good and REALLY poor, in which case you will pay nothing (bummer for the Edina folks, we know). Also, please realize that your child will likely not play much if he or she is not one of the top 11 players on the team, because part of our magic is our ability to inherently know which 11 players are best and therefore know which 11 players will play. The training your child will receive outside of games will be very good, so consider that the value you will receive. We fully expect players #12-18 will search for new clubs the following year, but our PATENTED MTA DEVELOPMENT MODEL is so effective we will just reload our rosters with 11 more great players next year, and move our current top players into those #12 to #18 positions. THAT'S HOW WE ROLL!"
Shekki
P.S. Don't worry, ladies. There is NO bride of Shekki. There's simply too much of me to go around.
What?!?! No koolaid?!?!
Word is that more than 60 players have already registered for the U16tryouts beginning August 8th. Expect the number to end up being 75-80. This shows there is significant interest in the new MTA model.
Bash MTA, Bangu, Wings, and SSM all you want but there obviously is a market out there for this type of player development program. Players and parents are voting with their feet and they always have.
Markets are never wrong. Time will tell if comsumers buy what MTA is offering.
Gee, thanks Steve Forbes.
Shekki,
Scram...we don't need your proven prejudice and bigotry on this blog.
You've already shown us what you're all about.
If there were three teams playing U15 for Bangu that is about 54 players who resigned for U16tryouts. Looks like Bangu had 4 teams playing U15 last year so, if they all came back, would be closer to 72. Great marketing machine.
are we talking U16 boys or girls?
Why would anyone care how many kids are "rumored " to be signed up for MTA ? Who cares?
I have heard of more kids trying out for several clubs this year than I have ever heard about in the past. Who knows how true the rumors are. Many of the CC's are telling of significantly increased interest but it is completely unknown how many kids will actually switch clubs.
The MTA model has at the very least moved some of the former Bangu/Wings kids to consider other options. I do have a question to anyone from Wings.. Bangu was an option for you in the past (as it was for everyone) If you didn't want that system last year (clearly you chose the Wings program) what makes you interested in Bangu now that they have changed their name to MTA?
75 kids at MTA tryouts for each age group? Let's see, that means about 2500 MYSA registered players at each age group are NOT interested in MTA.
75 versus 2500? Markets never lie.
Neither do results.
23 State Cup Championships the last 3 years speaks volumes.
If MTA has 75 at each age group that means they will have 1650 kids at tryouts. If 80% are given a team placement and accept it that will be 1320 kids. Average 14 kids per team (U-9/12 pull down the averages)That means MTA will have 94 teams.
This isn't meant to be a Bash on MTA but I highly doubt they will get 94 teams this year. If they do get that many teams they will clearly have to change the stated philosophy of only two teams per age group U-13 and up. What are they trying to be? The biggest club, or the pooling spot for the top talent to consolidate at?
I am also interested in the question posed by 9:28 Why would the Wings kids automatically move to MTA ? There are several other options for them to consider at good local clubs.
You mean the MTA guys have id'ed 1,320 elite players already? Now I know why they are in charge of elite development. That is dedication to purpose.
If MTA publishes the numbers coming to tryouts I guess they feel everyone will jump in so they don't miss out. Nobody is missing out, the numbers most likely represent those who are staying with the club +/- a few new ones testing the waters and some who are leaving. No big news here, just more spin.
could this blog be used by the MTA guys to advertise their program by spinning fanciful numbers to create a stampede? That would behavior i'd want my kids around. when are tryouts?
Bride of shekki
We need to clear some stuff up here. MTA only refers to the 28 teams that are at the elite level (2 per age group per gender for U13-U19, that's 7 age groups times 4 teams per age group for anyone having trouble). For the kids that don't make those teams, the regional academies will be able to place teams based on where their teams finished this summer. Wings became MTW, Bangu East is MTE, Bangu South is MTS...I think you get the picture. They will still function as the "CC" for players that want to be in the MTA system but can't play for the elites. Wings had 50 teams last year according to the MYSA website. A couple might go the elite route, but for most of them, they will be C1, 2 or 3 based on their promotion/relegation status. And the same people that have been running the regional areas will still be running the regional academies separately from the elites and other regions with cooperation between all 6 "separate clubs" (elite, north, south, east, west and urban).
Obviously, since Wings was the only club with any significant number of teams other than Bangu, the other regional academies will have to build themselves up, but not every kid goes to the elite program. Not sure why that keeps being the previaling view but it just keeps leading to uninformed comments.
Bride of Shekki,
Your motivation for your words is beyond reason. Go back under your rock and enjoy your kid's CC program. Let's let our kids make the opinions and decisions. Let the fun be had on the field by the players - not hiding behing the comfort of a keyboard. ADMIN - Please kill this thread!!!!
I am assuming then that the Academy teams will pay significantly less than the "Elite" teams , since the best coaching will have to be directed to the Top two teams at Each age group (the Elite teams) which means they will need 28 top coaches to handle just those teams.
I think Bangu has had some very good coaches at various levels, but certainly not 28 top level coaches. I wonder how the regional Academy teams are going to feel about being part of the MTA system in name only. Seems it will lose its luster if the coaching is no better than the Community Club.
Which then begs the question, Why even have the regional Academies ? It has to be revenue to support the "Elite" teams. I am not trying to be sarcastic, I just don't see the draw playing for them beyond qualifying for one of the "Elite" teams.
It probably will be tough for the smaller academies that don't have established bases. The West will be able to draw from the existing Wings base. My guess will be that there will be some significant effort placed at the u8-u12 level which would be the responsibility of the regional academies to develop.
11:27 first, I notice you are anon. Hmmmm BOS is hiding behind a keyboard, you're not? 11:11 said the same thing, be an equal hater.
12:32 Why would the former Wings players want to be in the Bangu system now ? If they wanted to play in that Bangu type system they would have done so before the "merger". I agree with the above posts that the Wings players wanted to play for Wings, not Bangu, why would they suddenly automatically choose the Bangu system? I would bet the MTA will see significant loss of players from the Wings group.
It's possible I guess, but from my understanding, at least from those in the West, there isn't much changing except for the uniforms and the name. I haven't heard about any great exodus of coaches from Wings/MTW so why should the kids go too. If they do it right and maintain a community presence, they'll probably do alright. That's not to say that there won't be any movement out of the club, but why condemn them to death so quickly.
Also to point out, Wings is not becoming Bangu, they're just partnering with them. Ex-Wings DOC Bellis is one of the 2 technical directors for the academy so there is a balance. Bangu should contribute to elite girls side and Wings can contribute the ability to build strong boys teams and possibly show Bangu how to actually build a community based club to develop future talent, something Bangu never showed any ability at so far.
1:42 "Wings is not becoming Bangu, they're just partnering with them."
I would say very few "Mergers" are really mergers. Those involved will all talk a good game about wanting to pull from the strength of both Clubs, but at the end of the day the current Bangu management/board will run this club. The main reason the locals are/were courted is to try to give the appearance of a community based organization in order to have better access to fields.
The original proposal made to the six CC's probably 6 months ago made this point pretty clear.
I am not condeming this to death as you indicated, I do however think the overall MTA model is flawed at the younger ages. If it can work to help the youth of MN have a better soccer experience then I hope it works. I personally believe a better model could be used to represent the Name of our MN Thunder Pro team. If it was the elite academy only this thing could have been supported by the masses not resented due to our Pro Soccer affiliate choosing to compete with the masses of the soccer world in MN.
Egotistical coaches who's #1 priority is their winning record are a cancer in Minnesota soccer. Until development becomes the #1 priority you won't see significant improvement on the national level.
2:43 winning at the expense of development is a "cancer", winning as a result of development is called success!
The new MTA board will consist of 2 Wings members, 2 Bangu members and 2 Thunder management members.
Wings have as much say of the new board as Bangu.
Nice try but you folks really should ger a handle on the facts before sticking your foot in your mouth.
It is a merger that I'm surprised the Bangu gang agreed to.
Maybe they're putting the kids and soccer development in Minnesota ahead of their own club?
tomsenigma,
Care to explain then how the Tsunami Sota girls were national finalists in 2002 and 2003.
That's doing pretty well on the national level in my book.
Did they overcome their egotistical coach's desire to win?
2 thunder, 2 bangu 2 wings equals 4-2 how do you think the "votes" will go. sounds like the old politburo. Wings families are being taken
Amos Magee was just fired because he wasn't successful.
Why would you think the 2 Thunder reps would vote to appease Bangu when the owners that fired Amos are also their bosses?
Do you think the Thunder reps are going to appease Bangu or the guy who signs their checks?
Sometimes I wonder how you folks function in the real world.
Get a clue, Bubba.
The Sota was probably the best collection of talent in the states history.Anybody could have coached that team to the nationals and an elite coach probably would have won it.
They're one in the same. Thunder needs Bangu and vice versa. They've ticked everyone else off, so they're perfect bedmates. Ew, I nearly threw up.
Predictions:
(1) After a few years of loading up on -- er, I mean DEVELOPING -- talent, Bangu will drop everything but the top team at each age group, and bring back the powder blues and headgear and the dorky dark blues with dark green numbers. Their annual player turnover rate will continue to be in the 50% to 80% range. The Bangu leaders' egos are much more suited to handling BEST instead of BIG. (By the way, did you know Bangu has won 23 State Cup titles over the last three years?)
(2) Wings says, "Dang, where did our good players go?"
(3) Thunder folds, wondering why no one goes to their games.
Proudly single (though I'm starting to get the hots for Bride of Shekki),
Shekki
Big (I mean really big) MTA announcement here on Thursday!
OK, I'll leak it...
MTA IS KEEPING THE POWDER BLUES!
[Caution: sarcastic remark ahead.]
I heard Carhartt was going to supply the new uniform. In powder blue of course.
There is a lot of talk about numbers of players signed up for MTA tryouts. That doesen't make much sense because I hear a lot of current Bangu players are looking for greener pastures and signing up for tryouts with other clubs.
(more sarcasm ahead)
Maybe us poor little CCs will be able to compete afterall.
tomsenigma,
So which is it?
Coaching isn't important?
Or coaches just get lucky and have the best players and coaching really doesn't matter?
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Whiners on the board claim we don't have any top level coaches developing players.
But then other whiners diss a coach by saying he only won because he had top players?
I guess Storlien is just the luckiest coach in the state.
He "got lucky" at Jefferson and won a MSHSL State Championship and "got lucky" and went to USYS nationals two years in a row.
Funny how none of the other coaches in Minnesota just don't have his "luck" and pull off those feats.
What a bunch of hypocrites.
while the tone of this board is sour and much of the comments are uneducated, what is clear with the amount of chatter is there will be significantly player movement this fall. the noise has never been this loud around player movement (to and from one club to another) just listening to parents, coaches, etc. i guess 'change' is in the air this year. my guess is that at the lower end more families will be looking to their cc to keep costs down (vs MTA), at the higher end (skill and age especially up north and east) MTA will benefit from consolidation and the brand, and in the middle it will be a bounty for good local cc clubs that offer year round programs will less travel, more community and less cost than MTA (ie a region like the south metro where Bangu/MTA is weaker). Once state is officially over, it will be a free for all (of course no one is recruiting early). Time for the boys to get out the hair gel and cologne to woo the soccer moms!
Did anyone notice the bright yellow forms the MYSA folks were handing out when you checked in your team at State last week? The form that clearly delineated the MYSA's recruiting rules? I asked the lady checking in my team why they were handing it out, and she laughed and wondered if I was kidding.
In any event, my little CC gets better every year when the BNG left-overs come looking for a place to develop and play. We haven't lost a boy to them in five years, and in fact are starting to attract quite a few girls each fall. Bring it on...this new consolidation will only help us get our C1 teams to premier.
The smart players are looking already. As said by earlier posters the "new" is worn off the MTA machine .
Sorry, I forgot to mention 23,000 state cup titles in the last 7 minutes. We never hear that enough.
All the hater talk stems from fear or envy. You all give parents who make the MTA choice zero credit for looking for an option that fits their family's needs or their children's desires. Grow up. Focus on developing the kids who choose your option as it is likely a great one for those interested. Leave the elite development to the professional decision makers and coaches who will undoubtedly gravitate to a program like MTA linked in with the professional system. It's happening all over the US and MN will be no different. You can spout derogatory remarks till you're powder blue in the face by the game moves on and will leave some behind.
God bless all the parents volunteers and hired DOCs with the community clubs. Don't forget your "job" though - provide a safe and enjoyable soccer environment for the kids in your own communities who choose to play close to home. You are not in a decision making place to look out for your club name, you are in place to look out for the players in your community and should FULLY support any of their desires to look elsewhere. It's black and white. Any other reactions from you are based in personal agenda and you should step down and make way for the many others who would be involved for the players.
I wish all the MTA people would simply boycott this blog. Just like the Shekkis of the world poorly represent the community club people some of you here poorly represent the many good people involved with MTA. Shekki is a little flame who needs the reactive O2 to survive. Let him preach his nonsense to no one and he'll fade into obscurity sooner than later.
"God bless all the parents volunteers and hired DOCs with the community clubs. Don't forget your "job" though - provide a safe and enjoyable soccer environment for the kids in your own communities who choose to play close to home. You are not in a decision making place to look out for your club name, you are in place to look out for the players in your community and should FULLY support any of their desires to look elsewhere."
I have gone to several Community Club Web sites and have not been able to find any stating their purpose consistant with your OPINION of what that purpose should be. I am not sure it is your place to tell any DOC or CC volunteers what their "JOB" is as defined by you. The arrogance of the self proclaimed MTA experts such as yourself volunteering your opinion on what the purpose of a CC is and what the "Job" of those involved should encompass only feeds the fire of those who resent the belittling attitudes of the "experts" hired by MTA.
Just so you know, there are many professional decision makers and coaches who are very focused on player development and team success at the local more Community based clubs.
This is not written with Hate as so often is labeled anything that disagrees with the MTA agenda. I a parent of two girls who play on very succesful Community Club teams, (measured in wins and losses and development) am offended by your defining the roles I, or our DOC should assume just because you think you know what is best for my kids soccer experience.
If the MTA model works for you great, I wish you the best, but I am not willing to accept your "all knowing" OPINION of how my kids Soccer Club should be run. You don't like the degrading remarks about MTA (I agree) yet you assume the responsibility to pass on your degrading remarks (I know you didn't even think they were degrading remarks which proves your arrogance)about our responsibilities in a community club.
Sorry for my rant, I rarely post on here but this one struck a nerve.
Fear or envy? Not. More like staying away from greed and inflated egos which have nothing to do with youth player development.
Fear or envy? Right on the money describing most who speak out against elite clubs.
Egos? Maybe egos but that's a common ingredient in many many clubs in MN.
Greed? I don't think so. When you have 6 directors sharing a coaching director budget of less that $125,000 it's not greed that keeps these soccer professionals with MTA. It's vision, passion, and desire for something better in MN.
I side with 1009 here. Volunteers and paid coaching directors in community clubs need to focus on the KIDS in their communities and what is best for them regardless of choices they make. To say they should "know their place" is a bit demeaning but the thought is right. It's really pretty simple. Issues come when DOCs and board members hinder player movement to non-community based options or because it may cause a loss of revenue for the DOC or the club. Doesn't happen everywhere in CC land but it's more frequent than some might want to believe.
12:26, best post on here in 3 months, well done well said. 10:08 and 1:33 you MTA guys keep on like that you are turning more players and parents off every time you make idiotic statements l;ike that. Keep talking.
P.S. I thought MTA /Goobers did not speak ill of the other clubs?
WH and WB make triple what any MTA coaching director earns from their "poor" community clubs.
I read the posts on here and I am the parent of a Bangu girl (currently u13). I have had 2 good years in the program and this past year was not. Frankly, it was more coaching/team related than anything at a 'programatic level'. This year I am going to test the waters at tryouts like many of the parents I speak with to see what is out there at other clubs. Of course there are irrational zealots pro and anti Bangu everywhere but for the most part the vast majority are regular families that have kids at various degrees of skill looking to find a good experience. My daughter is higher level so we get the 'calls and inquiries' from cc clubs and others about their program which is fine (once the word gets out it is amazing how small the community is). the nature of soccer today is for the top level players there are plenty of good options available and it really comes down to personal preference. in our case, we don't see a clear vision for the next stage for our daughter in the current team/program so like most parents when this happens we are going to look elsewhere. frankly we may end up staying with bangu or coming back in the future for that matter. my only add to an earlier post is that i agree that this year i hear more parents from my team (and from other teams we encounter) looking to change. the fact is, when cut out the crap on here, the truth is that bangu has come in and created a competitive program that has forced clubs (competitive and cc) to either raise their standards or lose players. this year in particular, it seems there are more choices than ever for high level players which is great. i realize that to compete nationally (or regionally)at state cup (and events that follow) people think MN needs a more consolidated group of super teams. having experienced state cup, yes it is a big event (and the downstream impact) but there is much more to the season for our family than that. the clubs we are talking to also travel out of state, compete in regional events, play state cup, etc. so for our family that works.
the moral of the story is obvious that the majority of families 'do the right thing' and pick a place that makes sense for their child and family. it is just sensationalism to paint 'all-bangu people' or 'all-cc people' with a broad stroke.
anon 1:42,
Bangu had about 7-8 teams 6 years ago and now just under the BNG, BTE, BTN entities has 40 teams.
Guess people are running away from the program, eh?
Nice try but the numbers coming to tryouts increase every year.
You can bad mouth whatever and whoever you want but it doesn't change the facts.
The club has grown greatly in numbers and greatly in the number of high caliber teams.
People ARE voting with their feet....they keep flocking to the top club in the state.
1:42, who is speaking out against CCs? Looks like people are calling out some decision makers not CC programming. People like you look for hate when sometimes there is not much at all.
I personally think both 1226s AND 1009s posts are some of the best on here as of late. To each their own.
anon 2:00,
You mean other clubs are contacting current Bangu players before the "open recruiting period" begins??
GASP! The horror of it all!
Yeah. my higher level U13 is fielding calls left and right, too. Ha ha ha.
3:34- Maybe the joke is actually on you? Maybe your "higher level U13" really isn't the Mia/Landon you think?
Some of the U13s ARE getting calls. Since you aren't, maybe that should tell you something?
336, Some of the U13's on your team are good. Some are better than others, but I wouldn't call any of them higher level. That can be said of pretty much all of the girls at this age group playing their age group. Maybe a couple of higher level players playing on older teams. Higher level players are capable of taking over games and dominating opponents and getting results. I'm sorry but I didn't see any of those players on any team at State Cup.
U13 parents really need to quit posting on here. No wonder your team is falling apart. You will be doing yourself (and your daughter) a huge favor if you keep your thoughts off the computer screen.
voiceofreason,
pretty sure if you can post on here anyone can. How about you don't tell everyone what to do and read only what you want to. Have at it U13 parents. This is a blog for soccer and that does include the U13 age group. Looking forward to tryouts!
458, What other clubs tryouts are you going to be at besides Bangu??
4:01 being a parent involved, We were told repeatedly this was a top team with high level players by the Bangu people. We are happy to be there but you should not pretend to know what was or wasn't said if you were not part of the team. This is a strong team and the parents are united.
voiceofreason - if you take off the posts regarding u12 - u14 girls soccer and the player movements and issues that go on at this age all you have left is a debate around Shattuck versus bangu and whether minorities are more equipped to play soccer than whites. the u12 - u14 typically has the most interesting movement anyway (move to full 11 v 11, intro to state cup, more appeal for MTA, etc.) along with the newer competitive parents. this is the fun stuff! obviously its a perfect subject for a blog based on the volume of posts.
5:08
My child will only be attending MTA tryouts. Not a part of the U13 team, but do think that all have a right to be on this blog blogging about what they want too. My comment about Looking forward for tryouts simply means that I am looking forward to all the new faces this year. It is always fun to see who is coming to take a spot on the top team - no matter what club you are with!!
An interesting turn on this blog. The 'goons are beating themselves up. Now THAT's fun to watch.
They are biting...hook, line and sinker.
many people probably would not bash the "poor" CC's if thier DOC's and Admin people weren't getting paid over 40K each.
Send us your best.We wil slap em silly and send em home crying for their mamas.
ANDROMEDA
You're correct, you have every right to post on here. Never said you didn't.
Why let your actions stand alone(both of your daughters and as parents) when you can air the dirty laundry of your team all over a blog?
It's one thing having outsiders talk about teams, it is a whole different animal when people within the group feel they need to post to get the attention of others. Let you daughter's actions speak volumes and don't cloud it up with commentary on a blog.
Just a thought - no one says you have to agree with it.
WH and WB would sneeze at $40K...try $75K plus.
I seriously dont get what people are getting so hyped up about. Wow, its a new name. Wow, a new team is joining with Bangu. There will be new players, different management but still the same effort to make a great team.
FOR THE PARENTS that think that their kid will not make it big, THANKS ALOT. We try because we care and THINK we will make it. If you ask anyone involved with bangu right now i'd bet alot of them would say their main ambition is to be a professional player.
So what if most of the pros right now came from local clubs that didn't 'recruit'. It doesnt mean that the best cant come out of a club that strived to be the best and did anything they could to get it. Any other club could have (but didnt) pulled a 'bangu' too. Recruited, formed a great team, had great management. They just didnt try hard enough and most likely dont care as much as i know we do.
I am so happy i left my team to come to Bangu. I hated being on a team when you passed the ball to someone, you could pretty much never count on them getting it to another one of your players.
Or in my situation, wanting to be in net because i knew i was better than our other keeper. no one could trust her. But then, they needed me on the field too. So it was pretty much more stressful and confusing than anything. Now with Bangu, i have had the opportunity to stay as a keeper and know that the people on the field during the game can be counted on and having me in the net, i can be counted on by others also, knowing that i am doing my best to help eachother win. theres such a strong sense of security with my team and the other bangu players. you dont hate having a certain someone on the field because you know they wont do anything; you like the people playing with you because they try and do a darn good job at it.
so big whoop, just give it rest.
complaining about it now wont do anything it already happened and i hope all you parents notice that it will be for the benefit of the kids.
& if some of us do happen to make it big, stick that in your straw and suck it to whoever thinks that we cant make an actual career out of this.
i dont know if you are negative towards your kids because your parents told you that you couldnt do whatever it was that you wanted to do, but i sure as hell hope my parents dont think the same thing as you.
-from, a player.
MA,
That's cute. Thanks for the thoughts.
thanks, i try. seriously though, everyone hates on us for no reason. no one says you HAVE to join. no one says you HAVE to like us, people should just keep their comments to themselves. & if you have a problem with the driving situations, say from duluth, join gittchi gummi or whatever. NO ONE SAYS YOU HAVE TO PLAY FOR US.
and some people say the pros came from local clubs anyway. why dont you stick to that philosiphy.
go do your thing on someone elses team.
Who will the 'goons pretend to be next? Referees? Sheesh, what childish losers.
the only people that bash bangu or us 'goons are whiney babies that are just jealous that they dont have the same opportunities.
& anyone can be a referee, we dont have to pretend.
You are representing MAs team with real class. Get off the blog kid.
I'd rather have the kids out here than some of the alleged "adults."
As it was put earlier, anyone has a right to post if you do too...I hope that "players point of view" is a player because it is good to hear their side too. Too many parents think they are helping being by pushing their kid into something or coaching on the sidelines when it's the kid's life, not theirs.
Anyways, her posts are much more mature than every single reply to them. The real losers on this blog are the ones that attack the person, their personality and intelligence rather than disagreeing with the opinions by providing their own opinion with actual facts to back themselves up.
More power to ya kid.
Goons,
There are so many people flocking to so-called cc's from your banner in the U12-U14 girls range that even your hair-brained leaders must be wondering what will be left. I am sure you'll fill rosters, but you may need to come up with a new color scheme for these teams (maybe black and blue?).
7:36, way to prove 7:30's point!
If that was indeed a player, maybe more time needs to be spent in school and not on the soccer field so they could learn how to spell and write complete sentences. No scholarship prospect based on writing ability.
Wow. And again.
That's why it leads me to think it was the writing of a certain prolific blogger. Very similar in style and grammer
Big deal. Satire and psuedonyms have been used for centuries to convey a point. Attacking the writer and calling them names makes the attacker look foolish because they have no real arguement other than not liking what was written. If you have a point, make it. If you don't, why bother to spew verbal vomit(written obviously) to the rest of us?
7:36,
All I have to say is see ya at State Cup.
I know which teams will be smiling after the final and so do you.
Your jealousy is quite obvious.
8:29, you have no idea unless you are somehow in cahoots with Tim Donaghy and he's turned his sights on youth soccer. You don't even know yet who will be on what team. It's a little early for State Cup smack talk. Besides, this blog is about MTA, and unless we are still on the "my club wins more State Cups than yours" taunting, how 'bout we bring this back to some actual useful discussion?
Anyone have an actual opinion on things that MTA might need to do to get to the level of a Dallas Texans or FC Delco? How about when or if development has to start showing results on the field by the nature of the level the players are achieving? Can MTA achieve this with current coaches in the system or will a shake up be necessary (please use actual examples and specifics if you want to discuss)?
I have a daughter currently playing on a Bangu team. Since moving to Bangu she has made new friends, improved as a soccer player, and is very happy. My wife and I have enjoyed making new friends and watching our daughter develop as both a player and a person. She is not the next Mia. She is a young woman who loves to play soccer. We were not unhappy at our cc but wanted a different experience than our cc could offer (year round training, out of state tournaments). At the end of each year we discuss the past season with our daughter to decide if we should stay will Bangu or go back to our cc. Every club/team has good and bad points. I don't agree with everythig Bangu does but I didn't agree with everything our cc did either. She will be trying out for MTA. In the end that is the best choice for her.
just to let you know, there arent alot of other places for us to go that we feel have the same standards as mta. in a sense were stuck, but i like it here, so im not going to even think about trying out for a different club.
and yeah, i am a player.
going to be u16 this year.
9:21,
dont force your daughter to do anything. just because you think its the best choice for her doesnt mean she thinks the same thing. trust me, i went through this with my parents.
when i joined bangu i was the only one from my former team of 3 years to leave. i knew i could get alot better with bangu & that was MY decision. i told my parents to leave me alone and let me make the choice. it was awfully hard, and i definately dont regret it.
if you are pushing her too hard, she might not be telling you something. maybe that she doesnt want soccer her main priority but feels that telling you that will be a disappointment.
My daughter isn't being forced to play for Bangu. In fact it would be easier for us as a family if she played for the cc (shorter commutes to practice and less expensive). That is why we have discussions about what is best for all involved. Decisions can't be made in a vacuum. All points must be considered and choices evaluated.
9:21
Player-
Good for you for coming in and making your points clearly to the "adults". I commend you for your drive and desire. I really hope that my daughter's SSM team chooses to play State Cup this year as you are the same age group. I love to see her team on the field with other determined, driven players because I know the result will be a great competitive game on the field- regardless of score.
I wish to make no commentary regarding what the final outcome will be, as I have no idea. Good luck to you and your team, I look forward to a few years of competitive games/meetings between the two teams!
SSMSouthCampus
Yeah right 10:22 - you are so believable!
Just had to weigh in. Many of you who post with regards to your U-11 to U-14 kids need to get a clue. From the experiences I've had with my own daughter (somewhere between U-16 and U-18) and conversations with other parents and coaches who've been through this before, I can tell you that it's time to step back and put things in perspective.
My daughter will play in a strong D-1 program if she wants to, but, as she has gotten older, realizes there is more to life than just soccer. Trying to juggle soccer with studies, figuring out where she wants to go to college, which schools will be willing to offer her what, whether those schools offer the academic situation that is best for her and then trying to juggle her friends into all of this can be overwhelming for a 16-18 year old.
Many of her teammates of her very top level team are, frankly, burned out by years of soccer inmduced pressure. We, as a family have from time to time had to take a step back from it all. She has bordered on "burnout" from time to time. From watching her teammates go down with ACL, etc., to her own injuries, we become to realize that it is a long process.
I bring this to the attention of all of you who have younger kids coming up because many of you are going too fast and putting way too much pressure on your kids.
As for my daughter, she has not needed Bangu for her development as her travel CC coaches have been very outstanding. As I stated, she is regarded as one of the top ten prospects within her age group and is being sought after by many well respected D-1 programs. That said, this player has worked hard through her CC experiences. We as parents will have spent less than $12K for seven years of travel. She has already played before any college coach from any school she will potentially attend and hopefully it will work out when it's said and done.
My advice to your 11-14 year old is to find a club with a good reputation, have your kid work their tail off and then ask yourself if she is having fun playing---as much fun as it is for you as a parent bragging on here about the next MIA?
1141,
Thanks for the great parenting advice. Next time I need advice on child rearing I will remember to ask anonymous 1141. How does someone elses injuries or their own injuries correlate to burnout. I would think the time away would be good for her. Maybe you were pushing her to hard like you claim everyone else does at the younger ages.
i was just saying that i have been having more fun playing with bangu because i have that drive and desire to play.
playing with my local clubs, two different ones, i was so stressed out because i couldnt count on my team except for the select people.
one of which after i had left, followed and now is on the same team as me and she deserves it.
i dont think many parents realize how stressful it is for a player that is determined and has the desire to win, to play with other kids who arent even close to the same level. im not saying all local clubs are bad, but where most of the players that i played with came from was rec soccer and i wasnt having it.
sometimes, in tournaments towards the semis or quarters, my old local team would WANT to lose because they were tired or they wanted to go back home because they had dates or plans with their friends. thats not desire, and i dont like playing with kids like that.
yeah sometimes bangu jampacks a ton of practices, scrimmages, games, tournaments, along with homework and high school sports but if we didnt want to be doing all of it, dont you think we would have told you already?
to tell you the truth, if i am not busy, im not happy. always being busy during the school year made it that much better and go by that much faster.
If you want to keep busy, you may want to dig in to a grammar guide.
1141 you have more or less identified yourself if you are giving truthful information. There are no current U17 or U18 players that are in the top 10 in their age group that both do not play for Bangu and have not committed to a college and also could play for a strong D1 program. As far as U16 goes it is difficult to consider WDB a CC team as they recruit and have players from as many communities as Bangu does.
sorry if my grammar isnt perfect.
i was just trying to get my point across.
not everyone on here has to explain themselves with tons of fancy words, complete sentences, and a sprinkle of pizzaz on everything.
if you really like it that much, go busy yourself with a dictionary, a theasaurus or your high school english teacher. maybe you will end up learning more than EVERYBODY on here, and can show off then. otherwise, just back off please.
sorry if i wanted to put my opinion out there and it wasnt perfectly executed. my mistake bud.
1:20: If you really are a player, good luck on your ACT/SAT. That said, I really hope your respective admissions counselor for the college of your choice can be bent by the soccer coach, if it's your desire to play in college.
you dont know me, dont judge me.
all i have told anyone who looks at this is my opinion on whats happening to the club.
i bet if i never told anyone i was a player and didnt mention anything about it, you would not be bashing me about my spelling mistakes.
take a break, this is about bangu/wings/thunder.
not my grammar or how well ill do on the act/sat.
people like you should all be named debby downer. thats what you are. a downer that says stupid stuff just to get attention.
well im not going to reply to you anymore because you are definately not worth my time.
good luck with all your negativity.
i hope it takes you somewhere someday.
Minnesota just doesn't turn out players. We turn out a lot of direct bootballers. That's why the top programs don't come here a knockin.
A safe assumption is that 10:12, 11:05, 11:41, 7:44, 7:55, 11:37, 1:30, and 1:51 are all the same rude, arrogant person.
To this person,
If your rebuttal is nothing more than to jab at what seems to clearly be a U15 player, then I don't think you have a valid argument.
Imagine if you will-- the defense attorney says "yeah, I know you are....but what am I?"
My guess is that it is the same anon who was earlier taking jabs at kids because they weren't smart enough to be at SSM?
he is just jealous that he doesnt have the same high quality soccer program from SSM whatever that is.
so you have smart people GOOD JOB.
too bad you dont have smart & athletic people like we do.
most people on my team get A's and B's all year.
few slip ups with C's for some people, but having a good team required thinking outside the box, and most of those people are really smart.
I really do not understand why some parents are so hyped up about this merger with bangu/wings/thunder. If your child is not playing for either of the two teams then why do you care? Why waste your time with something you have no control over. Just let it go.
It's fear or envy. It's simple and human nature.
Same old Goober response they fear or hate us. Therefore it blunts fair critcism of the practices employed. Good strategy but people have and will catch on to the game, in fact listening to parents many already have.
What do you mean by that?
11:41 I would like to know what top 10 player you are as well?? Are you a top 10 CC player, MN player, regional player or Natl player?? And, what colleges are after you?? Please share, you opened it up, please finish it.
As I sit here in Blaine hanging at Caribou prior to my State Tournament game I thought I'd chime in this discussion.
I work for a CC though unlike some of my colleagues posting here I don't believe MTA is against the CC model. I am proud of what we have accomplished in our community for the kids and for the community itself. I would be proud again if any of our players made the jump to the MTA elite teams. We cannot offer what MTA will offer though there may be some other CCs who feel differently based on their resources, registration numbers, etc.
Many in our club have actively encouraged players to seek out other team options in their best interest especially if we don't think we can provide adequate training for them. It's been difficult at times as the loss of players has forced us to scramble to field summer teams now and again but most of us realize that it comes with the territory.
Just like there are some Bangu-MTA-Wings people whose posts on here reflect negatively on their entire program, there are some CC supporters whose posts reflect poorly on the rest of us. Be careful when building labels and stereotypes like this and I would hope that many people can see past the few bad examples proffered by both sides in this ongoing debate.
As for the recruiting - it happens all the time in our club from our recreational program to our competitive program, with teams trying to raid lower level teams of their top players from looking to other teams outside our community for players. I've spoken with many of our club officials and coaches and we're all working under the same pretense - MYSA's recruiting rules are not only a bunch of bologna but moreover completely hypocritical as long as a group like Shattuck is allowed to field teams in our competitions. Some of our players have been contacted numerous times throughout this past year to come and go to school and play soccer in Faribault. Who is policing Shattuck? How can MYSA even pretend to enforce recruiting rules if they hold exceptions? Until this is addressed by our state association our club will not, like many others out there, abide by any MYSA policy regarding this subject.
As I said I'm very proud to be associated with the co-workers and the community I'm involved with. I love the game of soccer and have witnessed the growth in the game over the past decade here in Minnesota. I know the work that we do along with the work that the elite clubs do have helped promote this growth and I wish MTA and the Thunder all the best in their new program. I've know many of their current leadership group for a long time and believe they have the vision and expertise to pull something like this off. Yes, I'm out here even supporting the most hated guy on this blog - MA. Our state needs more passionate and experienced professionals like him to see the next evolution of the game. From what I've seen our ranks of qualified coaches and leaders like him are swelling. It's an exciting time for Minnesota soccer!
4:35, thanks for that post. Such a breath of fresh air. I fully agree with each point. I am not Bangu, MTA or SSM, nor am I so pro-CC that everything else must be considered evil. I am a parent who loves to watch my kids play soccer wherever THEY decide they want to play. And I love watching their friends, teammates and opponents play wherever THEY want to play.
How 'bout them Twins?
So how long will it be before someone accuses anon 4:35 of being MA?
Anon 4:35-
Why is MYSA hypocritical by "allowing" Shattuck to participate in "your" events? It wasn't MYSA who allowed it, it was USYSA. You know, the National guys. Take up your argument wtih USYSA, not MYSA. But, be prepared to not win that argument.
One other thing, are you trying to say that pre-Shattuck all the recruiting rules were followed by the clubs of the day?
I read your statement that you began breaking the rules and refusing to abide by them only after Shattuck came into the picture. Is this what you are saying?
Get over yourselves. SSM breaking rules, recruiting, playing with a stacked deck...Deal with it.
Is that a halo I see over MA?
halo? Are you kidding me? That clownshow went 0-2-1 and blew their chance at earning a premier spot (U14) tonight (can't wait to hear AK explain that fumble), losing to TC Fire! So all of the crap about MTA fielding three premier teams next year at U14 is officially debunked. Try another line of gas, boys, and give the halo to someone deserving.
anon 11:22,
So they'll only have 2 premier teams in a 6 team league? The horrors!
They better get their act together fast. They're slipping, eh?
How does Bangu get even two premier teams at U14? Only the Wings U13 earned a spot and that presumably would roll over to MTA, but what other? Wings barely squeeked by Rochester in points with a 2-2 tie last night and Burnsville had the edge on Tonka all night with a 2-0 win, the only team to win all three state games. Woodbury and Maplebrook tied at 0-0.
Somehow the Wings players will get ripped off as a result of the heady promises that have been made the past few weeks. Talk of 3 premier spots and only getting 1, someone will be hurt and it wont be the Bangu players who claim promises have been made
This "Merger " really looks good for the Wings players right now doesn't it?
Read post from 28/7/08 2:10. 1:42 ("Wings is not becoming Bangu, they're just partnering with them."
I would say very few "Mergers" are really mergers. Those involved will all talk a good game about wanting to pull from the strength of both Clubs, but at the end of the day the current Bangu management/board will run this club. The main reason the locals are/were courted is to try to give the appearance of a community based organization in order to have better access to fields.)
There are several other interesting posts near this one all revolving around speculation about the basis of this blending of Wings into Bangu.
If I were a Wings player that earned the Premier spot I would be watching my back. What a bummer for them, EARN a spot and then lose it because your club was essentially taken over.
Congratulations to the six newest MN Premier League teams at U-14 for 2009. They are MPB, Woodbury, Burnsville, Tonka, Twin Cities Fire and Wings. Obviously, the Wings entry, a "true" U-13 team made it as a "Wings only" team. It should be interesting to see how this team disembles over the next two weeks. How long before the Wings former BOD crawls under the floorboards and disappears?
So, an already good, premier level team is about to have many more kids show up at try-outs. This should only make the team stronger and give it more depth.
I am having a hard time understanding how this is a negative thing?
the tea leaves for the MTA u14 group is simple. they have 1 premier slot (thanks to wings) and 1 or 2 u14c1 slots (the one earned by AK u12 team in the east) and I would assume the one in the south might have earned (4-7-1?). they also will likely get a u14 MRL slot from the u13 team that played u14 premier. knowing their emphasis on state cup, they will make 2 u14 teams to compete at state cup, one that will be the MRL team (for those from u13 playing premier) and the rest of the age group that will try out for the spot earned by Wings (sorry Wings players, get ready for u14c1)these will be strong teams because the talent pool is bigger. The 2 true u12 teams that played up will stay at u13 and compete at State Cup and league. MA's dream team at u11 will probably skip u12 and play u13 as well. so all in all, they will be able to put something together with all the available options from being a consolidated club. that said, many girls will get left in the competitive shuffle (not necessarily bad) and that's where good ccs can offer a spot. before anyone implies that that means that ccs get the 'leftover' talent that is not true. just like bangu recruiters are sticking their hands in cc pockets so too are the ccs sticking their hands in bangu pockets. the healthy side of the competition between MTA and CC is that everyone is forced to raise their level of training and offering to top players. the unhealthy side is the way some people on both sides go about it. the world of sports (and business) from youth to adult is no different in that it envelopes peoples lives and creates strong emotions. so the polyanna's or utopians that come on this board and try to say 'get over it it is only youth sports' have a great theory but this is life. anyway, tryouts are coming, hold on!
mn premier? me thinks mta has their sights a bit higher for their two top elite teams (mrl, etc...)
Glad to hear you all know so much what is going to happen with the MTA premier spot but you are all very wrong.
The MTA Blue team will play MRL only, that team will consist of the top 17 players, Wings, Bangu or whoever
The MTA White team will play MRL and MYSA Premier, The Wings players who do not make the top team will most likely make this team, along with a few of the Bangu players who don't make the top team and whoever else shows up.
My guess is the number of Wings kids on the premier team would have been the same regardless of the merger because having a premier spot would have attracted new players anyways. Its all a fact of life, competition breeds success and the MTA White team will benefit from this.
to 10:57 - why do you say very wrong. that is basically what the post said. an MRL team and a premier team at u14. both will play state cup. is MTA really not going to have any u14c1 teams? not much presence or opportunity for south based kids i assume
I THINK THIS IS A GREAT IDEA!!
of couse the MTA blue team deserves a MRL spot due to their stellar performance in league this year what was it? 0 wins, I think relegated
I think Dakota Rev and Lakeville are the only other clubs to have a U-14 C1 team in the south metro if the Bangu south team doesn't play MYSA at U-14 C1. Eagan and Prior Lake were relegated and Roch is a bit of a commute for Metro kids.
REV's spot was earned by their group of true 12's last year. Will they fill that roster or will they play 13 again? If they play 13 again we are down to Lakeville only.
Looks like no matter what the South teams will have to be blended with either teams that traditionaly play in the East or the West. As mentioned many times on here this age group is weak.
Think you need to look at the C2 teams that will be promoted to C1 as well.
11:38 Good point add in a Burnsville team that finished with just over 75% of the points avaliable. I think that is all.
MTA will also have a south U13 c1 team, the White U12 team that made the state tournament.
REV will have a U14 C1 team made up of u14 players they just don't have the players yet
3:02 What is that a "build it and they will come" team. I assume then the 12's that earned the spot are playing 13 next year again.
The upcoming u13 girls group will be very strong to the point that the 2 time depending champs from north metro might not even be top 5. bangu (1 if not 2 teams), dakota rev, ep, burnsville, cottage grove, north metro, and edina will all have teams at a higher level than many of the teams in this year's event. there will be plenty of player movement this year so although bangu u12e would be the 'favorite' today, it will likely change. these teams will also be better prepared for state cup because they are more atune to year round training.
REV have many current u13 players playing up a year (a total of seven, 5 on the U14 team that just earned premier) and already many new to be 14's have signed up so they will have a very competetive team that will train 2-3 times a week starting Septmeber.
The reason they did not have a true U13 team this year is becasue that team left a few years ago for a certain club but now the club feel they have and will have enough talent to again form a new U14c1 team. if nothinge else the lague need them otherwise their will only be three teams from the south =)
The key for the strong teams U-13 (next season) from Burnsville, Eden Prairie,Edina ,Cottage Grove, and North Metro will be the depth of the talent on each teams roster. Moving to 11v11 obviously requires more depth of talent. I have seen all of the above teams play at least once and agree with the post indicating them being the most likely canidates to have a great 2009 season. What couldn't be judged was the strength of the "bench" players.
Hard to write off the Bangu teams due to speculation on player movement, Some may leave but others may come to those teams. Bangu E took second in their league and advanced to MYSA State, and the south team finished middle of the pack. Rev team looked good also finishing second in the South (they played 13 as 12's too)
Should be fun because of the number of well established strong teams.
Next years U13 Rankings
1) Top MTA Blue
2) Dakota Rev
3) MTA White
4) Burnsville
5) Cottage Grove
6) North Metro
7) White Bear Lake
8) EP
Good call moving White Bear into the mix. Edina deserves top ten status for sure, and EP is very good on the 8v8 field which I think moves them up on the list
10:27 - good chart but i think MTA white is too high (if you are implying that team is coming from the u12 south team). top 10 but not top 3. edina needs to be in there
anyone have predictions on the u13 final tonight? i haven't seen the games but the scores seem to lean towards burnsville
OK I'll take a crack at the top u-13 teams next year.
Clear advantage to the teams that played 11v11 this year.( especially in State Cup)
1. Bangu E
2. Dakota REV
3. Cottage Grove
4. Bangu S
5. Eden Prairie
6. Edina
7. North Metro
8. PSA
9. Burnsville
10. Tonka (if they consolidate talent) or White Bear
Some great games today for the Girls finals:
Predictions:
U-11- Prior Lake
U-12- Eden Prairie
U-13 Wings
u-14 REV
U-15 St Croix
My expertise is nil beyond these age groups.
Bangu has currenlty 4 U12 teams.
One East
One West
Two South
A few U11's playing on South and West teams. When all the True U12's go to tryouts along with kids coming to tryouts for the first time you will see a very deep age group. With that being said that is why I ranked them Number 3 on my list. Also some of the top teams may lose some of their top players to MTA, thus hurting their teams. Goal scoring will be harder to come by on the second team since most of the dangerous attacking players will be on the top team. In my opinion the 2nd MTA will be very sound, but probably be lacking scoring.
good assessment 11:24. don't forget that the 'Bangu' group might lose a few incumbents too. i believe the number of kids going to MTA in this age group will be lower than others just because there are so many more good options. I am not sure you could convince the top kids from any team on that list to move to MTA given the strength of the team as you imply. The chatter is actually the reverse. other than AK, the coaches in that group are not destination coaches that i can gather. frankly, this age group (upcoming u13) could field a highly competitive Mn regional team if you consolidated the talent that 'played up'. i know that is the MTA argument but the MTA brand at this age group isn't that great (beyond what is laready there). that is the downside to 'playing up' is that the rest of the player pool at the age group doesn't see them during the previous season. i also don't buy the 11 v 11 advantage as a big factor (some factor, not big). most of the teams will play fall competitive soccer and junior high so they will get exposed to it. plus for those teams to get better they are going to have add new players anyway and they will have to re-learn working together. most goals at u13 are still individual athletic plays so a great 1 on 1 u12 player moving up can still take over a game and beat a more technically sound team that can't finish (as you contemplate). ideally MTA would field a team that could travel to big events but still play with their own teams (more US Club Soccer for this age group). If the maligned ODP program could bring them together without the MTA banner they could compete regionally. the net is, there are going to be about 10 good teams and no great one (from a regional perspective) at least for now
1159, Thanks for the compliment! Your right they could lose several current members of the east team. I feel the loss would be the result of not making the top team and maybe not wanting to play on a second team. That happens every year. There is also the chance someone will choose to go elsewhere due to different reasons. With that being said the U12 east team is very strong from top to bottom. Unfortunately for all the girls this age group is extremely deep and has a strong presence and a strong team already in the south. Half of this team could be different next year. The south team has a handful of very talented players. There are also a couple real good players who play up who might be thrown in the mix also. Even if no new players come from outside Bangu and Wings you are looking at a new and improved team which should be able to compete regionally:) It should be fun!!
I have to be somewhat cynical here. I don't necissarily disagree with any of your points, and I'm delighted that more mature discourse is happening after only a thousand posts, but are we seriously ranking U13 teams? Does anyone else get a little disturbed that we are putting so much emphasis and pressure on a bunch of girls, many of whom may just be hitting puberty?
This is a very valuable time for skill and game intelligence development, and those that embrace that type of learning the quickest (provided they have the proper environment and guidance/coaching) will be successful and probably have the best record so I'm not suggesting taking winning out of the picture. It's a sport, so there are winners and losers and much character development is to be had at this stage if we don't wuss out our kids with feel-good crap. The only problem I see is that tryouts aren't even over, we're ranking teams out the gate and trying to predict the 2010 U14 premier league. A little too intense I think.
I have to be somewhat cynical here. I don't necissarily disagree with any of your points, and I'm delighted that more mature discourse is happening after only a thousand posts, but are we seriously ranking U13 teams? Does anyone else get a little disturbed that we are putting so much emphasis and pressure on a bunch of girls, many of whom may just be hitting puberty?
This is a very valuable time for skill and game intelligence development, and those that embrace that type of learning the quickest (provided they have the proper environment and guidance/coaching) will be successful and probably have the best record so I'm not suggesting taking winning out of the picture. It's a sport, so there are winners and losers and much character development is to be had at this stage if we don't wuss out our kids with feel-good crap. The only problem I see is that tryouts aren't even over, we're ranking teams out the gate and trying to predict the 2010 U14 premier league. A little too intense I think.
1:23 - i am one of those in theis discussion and it's is purely meant to be a pleasant dialogue. a better way of saying it would probably be where are the best places for a high level player (commitment and skill) to find a good place to play soccer next year. i am excited that this is a good age group for mn and there are opportunities for them to play. the 'winning' and 'ranking' isn't much different than pre-season polls on espn but that is the fun of speculation. i am holding my breath and enjoying the 'positive' discussion but waiting for the typical hostile deterioration of the discussion that I hope doesn't come. u12 to u13 and u13 to u14 are two interesting transitions with the advent of 11 v 11 and the introduction of state cup and premier to new families. this is a good place to give information on which teams to look out for and frankly if anyone was interested in finding a new club for their child via tryouts this list would be a good place to start. of course there is some silliness to it but at least it isn't racism, bashing or favre.
1:23 - if you've followed this or any other thread on this blog that pertains to the younger girls ages, you should know by now that there are a handful of bloggers who's (most likely oldest) daughter falls into the U11-U14 age. Their posting volume is quite impressive. If the thread ever deviates from their daughter's ages for an extended period of time, then one of them lobs out a question which gets them all involved again.
Top U14 teams next year (Girls)
1) MTA (Bangu/Wings)(Current U13 playing Premier)
2) Burnsville
3) TCF
4) Woodbury
5) Tonka
6) Maplebrook
7) Rochester
8) PSA
9) MPLS United
153, you may be right, but for myself I try to talk about age groups I know about that are not my daughters. I don't think much about bloggers who post pretending not to be the parent of the kid they are typing about. By the way my daughters are the BOMB and very good at soccer also!! LOL
classic......1:53's post is followed immediately by 2:02's post. you can't make this stuff up.
212, 202 was posted just for 153. I just had to and no I don't have a kid at this age group.
Top U11 Girls teams (IMHO)
1 Bangu Blue
2 Wayzata
3 Prior Lake
4 EP
5 Cottage Grove
6 Bangu White
7 Eagan
8 MU
9 Cent
10 Mahtomedi
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