Monday, March 10, 2008
Thunder Youth Development Plan
With all of the talk of the Thunder trying to build a youth program or academy and building a competitive A League team, they should be very busy this spring and summer. There have been rumors of some local clubs joining forces with the Thunder to seed an academy at several age groups.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
140 comments:
Thunder, in promoting the concept do not forget a very basic selling element - if you are not providing an added value to the customer, why should they buy your product?
My consulting fees are reasonable
win and we'll buy your tickets. lose and you won't see me anywhere close to st. paul
Uh, so who's on board? Bangu and (drum roll please)...no one. Still? It's like throwing a party in honor of the local guy who has offended everyone in sight and the uncomfortable realization that something appears to be wrong (i.e. no one shows up). This is a dead issue. It will be fun to watch bangu herald their own success at State Cup as proof that they're going to succeed with the Thunder academy and then continue to be dumbfounded as to why no one will join them. How about another party in their honor (haha)?
I'm confused about this whole venture. Is it only at the academy level or is the whole club (Bangu) merging with the Thunder?
A lot of conflicting information out there.
I'm someone who should know whats going on and I have no clue. This is following the path I predicted through, a lot of noise early on, then hardly anything happening at all.
I'm someone who should know whats going on and I have no clue. This is following the path I predicted through, a lot of noise early on, then hardly anything happening at all.
titanic and other anons,
Are you the same people who predicted that the bangu Acadmey would fall flat as well? This bangu venture with the Thunder will happen on some level in the next few years (I dont know anything - just a pediction of my own). It wil be good for Minnesota soccer much the same way the ripple from the Bangu Academy was. I also contend the silence may be before the storm, MA has shown that once he gets an idea he follows through.
It will happen one way or another but like previous poster stated it may take a while.
My guess is that initially not much will change Bangu will switch name to Thunder, and the teams will be run like they are today.
The question is how the structure will be for players 12 and younger. My guess is that they will keep the academy programs until they get some cc's to join in and at some point that will happen.
I am more curious to find out what MYSA will do to either promote or try to prevent possible relationships between Thunder and some CC's.
Swedish Smurf
Dumb question.
If the club changes their name, are their teams considered "new teams" and will they be forced to play C3 and lose their MWRL slots?
anon 1249 - Use and keep Bangu as the corporation for legal entity sake and rebrand the name of teams to Thunder. If the club's legal/corporate foundation remains the same it is not a new club just a renaming of the teams in the club. Consider it naming rights. That is how I would approach it.
I would do it that way only because of my high distrust of the MYSA.
I think Anoka just changed its name to MN Revolution and kept status of all their teams. Same thing should happen here, unless of course MYSA tries to twart this merger so it doesn't replace ODP (lmao!!!)
The quiet before the storm - perfectly put my friend. I know MA and this would be my guess as well.
So was that little shower we had tonight the storm? I almost missed it. Very impressive. It was like the calm never ended.
The only problem with proceeding ahead as planned without the buy-in of CC's is that it's the same model, and doesn't answer the base issues that have plagued Bangu from the get-go . . . real estate, real estate, and real estate = NO FIELDS. This was pointed out by Amos in his presentation to the CC's. If it does nothing else, maybe it'll be a wakeup call to those charged with developing the elite players in the state.
Having MA as the messenger for this was the first issue . . . love the guy to death, but too much baggage to be the point person.
Re: the U12s and under . . . gotten the MPSL email yet? . . . there's your answer. I talked w/principals in this deal and said from the beginning that US Club was probably the way to go. It was a nice courtesy to present to MYSA, but it was a foregone conclusion that they wouldn't support it.
I'llBRtBack
Titanic
Bangu's success speaks for itself...but since you have your fingers in your ears...are you eyes open to read this?
How can you say no one will join them...they already have. Number of academy teams and players are up, number of teams are up, number of Premier/MRL teams are up, number of teams traveling to national tournaments and showcases are up, club rankings are up, team national rankings are up, ODP players within the club are up, state cup championships are up, D1 college players are up, the level of club play in general is up...
Nothing is perfect of course and other clubs/teams/players are also enjoying more success (e.g. EDP, MUS, WDB, SCV, etc.) Why poo poo everyone elses accomplishments and desires to make things better.
With or without the Thunder developing a real academy, the level of play is up.
just name rights change .... right lol ... only just one question.. who gets what.. who decides where the money gets divided, there would certainly be more to split if cc gave up their fields. Is the talent level and all those accomplishments of the bangu kids factored into the monetary considerations of changing their brand name and done without financial considerations... and all those associated bangu soccer camps competing against thunders, lol are they not reimbursed too, and finally is U.S. club going to provide fields that mysa didnt. all the extra money that willing bangu parents paid over years... . never invested in clubs own fields , weight room or club own offices, things us academy considers for acceptance to league. where did all the money go to.
tend to agree, that any new youth club brand Thunder would develop in state and justify higher club fees that bangu charged would have to get U.S. Academy associated with it to continue to have selling point and claim that its number one club in state for developing players. hope thunder doenst have to pay too much FOR BANGU BRAND and can invest in own field and facilities.
anon 1227 & 1:12 - I've have always stated the problem with Bangu is a lack of a facility plan. My answer was to the question regarding how to avoid MYSA questions regarding 'new club' status label
As an ex-Bangu parent and coach I can tell you where the money goes. Over 90% of the money coming into the club goes to player scholarships, dome rental fees and coaches licenses. Bangu is more aggressive on the coaching licensing front than any club in the metro area.
The high costs some think are making coaches rich at Bangu is a big misconception.
The big expenses for the teams are indoor time at domes, and travel to out of state events. I've heard they shell out approx $175,000 every winter on dome rentals alone.
Maybe with some creative financing they could buy a plot of land and put up a dome? But to buy enough land and create outdoor fields isn't feasible for a club that small, unless they raise fees considerably.
If the club wanted to buy their own facilities the teams would need to double the fees to do so.
I've heard the new Thunder owners (who are wealthy real estate developers)will be building a complex in St Paul that will include practice fields etc that the Thunder youth program will have access to for games and training. In addition the plan is for the Thunder to provide funds for scholarships to high level youth players.
This sounds like what we need here in Minnesota and similar to what the Chicago Fire is doing in that metro area.
Hopefully the deep pockets of the new owners speed up the development of higher level youth soccer here in Minnesota.
Bangu Premier teams are DOWN not up. They only have 4 teams in the Premier league for 2008. (They had 7? last year) They are more concerned about MWRL teams.
lol.....MN Premier or MWRL.....I doubt Bangu loses any sleep over those decisions.
The Centennial Soccer Club is DOWN. They once had one of the most feared teams in state, Centennial sting! They had archie karpeh who left for the national team and after that they crashed, get regulated to C1 picked up 3 pretty good c2 from their "brother" team that carried them for 2 years. The c2 boys actually were better then most the team. Now they have NO c1,C2,C3 teams in the age brackets of U14 and up. Thats scary
MYSA "Premier" league is:
the "new C1" with the top teams playing in MRL.
The field access issues is no longer that big of a deal. By law, all communities must provide equal access to fields regarless club affiliation. They can prioritize access to residents above others. Some communities are still trying to fight to keep the non-ccs out but 1 law suite will change it all.
5:37
If they play in both what does that make them?
MRL is for the teams that have 1 sport athletes or have a HS coach who lets them miss weekend meets/games.
I have had 3 MRL teams. All three had about 1/2 1 sport athletes and 1/2 multi sport athletes. Most HS coaches are not reasonable about missing things. But they don't have any choice as the MRL soccer athletes are their best track, volley ball, softball, golf and baseball players anyway. What is you point? Coaches of all sports, in all seasons, make exceptions for exceptional athletes. Don't talk out of you ass if you don't know.
anon 5:39 - More on that topic please...
yes anon 539 - what law in specific requires a community/city to be required to let equal access exist to clubs.
Yes....please expound on this law. Sure would make our lives alot easier if it were true....lol
If you won't go to Thunder games unless the team is doing well in the standings then that's your glory-hunting bandwagoning problem.
Real supporters get behind their local club no matter what.
12:25,
Have you been to a Thunder game lately? That's like saying you should support W no matter what happens in Iraq. I like Amos and some of the guys on the team, but the lack of investment under the previous owners really ran down the product, and it will take a major renovation to make it interesting again.
anon 10:45,
Last year Amos was given th lowest or 2nd lowest budget in the USL for salaries.
The new owners have increased it significantly. If you haven't noticed they have signed some nice players the past few months.
Results won't turn a 180 in just one year but with the infusion of cash the team will steadily improve the next few years.
Like Bangu or not, like the Thunder or not, they are paving the way for clubs to step up their offerings.
http://www.wings-sc.org/West_Futbol_Academy.html
This is the first of a number of similar alliances MN is about to see.
Good job guys!
Very nice. Slowly, US Club Soccer is making inroads into MN.
Can MYSA's arrogance allow them to see what is happening?
Wings/Wayzata U13 - U15 in an academy format.
MPSL in a league and a tournament format...
Bangu/Thunder in some format...
As someone mentioned here before, US Club Soccer may not be up to the level of USYS at the top, but the freedom they provide their affiliates is very appealing.
anon 229
I just looked at the link. Good for them. As a Bangu partent I am excited to see people taking steps to improve the level of soccer in Minnesota. This looks like a good thing for players in the West metro. I hope it goes well for them.
I hope this and the Thunder Bangu effort is the beginning of a trend to raise the level of development for kids all over the state.
One thing people tend to lose sight of - it's suposed to be about the kids.
It will be interesting to see how this works. Next year could provide the ultimate test to this idea. Say the top players from both U13 teams form a strong team that would challenge for State Cup as U14's. All the players and parents recognize they have a good thing going so they decide to all go to one club or the other.
How will the other club feel about this move?
Is this type of alliance strong enough to weather that type of storm?
Is this a precursor to a merger between clubs?
What if PSA and Maplebrook were to join this Academy?
Could Minnesota soccer turn into West and North (West Futbol Academy) versus South and East (Bangu or the Thunder Academy)?
3:42 - Did you not read the announcement? Only for Wings and Wayzata players. How are PSA and MapleBrook going to join?
A couple of shots at MYSA:
You can roster up to 26 players on each team and players can play up in age groups and back down to their own age. This flexibility is not available through US Youth Soccer (MYSA).
There will also be an opportunity to get sponsorship to off-set the cost since US Club Soccer allows advertisement in front of uniforms unlike MYSA.
3:55 The question would be, if in the future PSA and Maplebrook joined this Academy alliance.
Hmmmmmm......
And how would this work?
"If any players from other clubs want to join the Academy teams they must first register with one of our two clubs."
It's a step in the right direction. We just need to have one central club/Thunder to consolidate all the top talent.
I think it's great that many of the people who see flaws in the MYSA development plans are trying new things (Thungu, MPSL, Wingzata). I'm just a little leery of jumping in with too much enthusiasm from a group (Thungu) that hasn't shown an ability to do the developmental work in the past. The owners are new and have to prove themselves on their own field before I'm going to push real hard to support their youth program. MA, yes, credentials out the ears, but with PR issues. The rest of the crew . . . I dunno. If their approach to the academy concept is as haphazard as their business plan, I think waiting to see what happens will be the prudent thing to do. Good luck to them, and Manny's push as well. MPSL I'm very dubious about given the historically narrow-mindedness of the principals. Be certain that the figuring-out-things-as-they-go approach isn't something that will benefit you and yours unless it's coincidence. AR, if you want this thing to go and be successful, talk to Manny and MA more. Right now the website reads like a rag-tag bunch of people trying to figure out what they're doing by trial and error. . . time will tell if the emphasis will be on the error.
I'llBRtBack
"Can MYSA's arrogance allow them to see what is happening?" quoting previous Anon . . . one comment. I think it's less arrogance than close-mindedness. Free your mind!!! I think what we'll see play out is that some of these efforts will be well-meaning and poorly organized. Others that succeed will help all of us, even those who decide that MYSA is still the way to go, cause MYSA is not going to be able to sit there as the only game in town and not be as nimble and responsive to changes in the market. Unfortunately in some ways, the current situation is run like a co-op and if you've ever been involved in one that's having issues, you know it can be a major snafu at times. Monopoly=bad, new-ideas=good.
I'llBRtBack
The one subject nobody wants to address....MN must upgrade the quality of coaching. Same ol coaches and same ol ideas. There are not enough quality coaches to go around. Number of kids playing up substantially. Nowhere near enough coaches .
Anon 5:37
Not sure I follow you or agree with you...
I looked at the Wings page and it appears very focused - US Club Soccer academy for U13's - U15's. I also looked at MPSL and it also looks focused - US Club Soccer U9 - U12 fall/summer plus a tournament. Not sure who or what "AR" is, but both these programs have a face with public pages, unlike the Thunder thing which is not.
I agree with your last comment, monopoly=bad, new ideas=good. Even if these ventures fail, at least there is some action after sooooo many years of inaction!
PSA was involved in the Academy discussion but when push came to shove, the PSA board voted not to participate.
Bangu, on its own, has demonstrated the ability to consolidate talent and train players to a level that allows them to compete regionally and nationally. Both genders (girls a little more successful than the boys), most age groups, year after year. They have also put together a reasonable strong academy system, especially south and east.
PSA one team for 2 years, Wings 2 team for 2 or 3 years, MU 1 team for 2 years, SCV 2 teams for 2 or 3 years, EAG 1 team for 2 or 3 years, WDB 1 team for 2 or 3 years...I think the point is made.
If the Thunder can help round out the age groups for Bangu and attract even 2 or 3 additional top players at each age group, and help create a 2nd strong team at each age group, it will be very difficult for any other clubs or even the combination of 2 clubs to catch up.
It doesn't mean that they will have the best team at every age group, but you would think they would lock up at least 5 of the 6 age groups for each gender.
Get on the bus!
7:34,
That leaking sound is the air leaving the tires on the bus. The Wings/Wayzata model is the answer and more clubs (and quality clubs) will participate in similar ventures than will join Thungu (which is to say that even some will!). The hole in your logic (and the bus tires) is that these ventures will not have the individual clubs playing against the gu but combined efforts, and it will get very interesting in the next couple of years. I hope your bus ticket is refundable!
Anon 8:05 You and the Wings/Wayzata model is not the long term solution. To compete on the national level you need the best talent from a larger area than just the West. If you are hoping for success at state cup you better get one this year at U13 because the Bangu Academy has lots of talent from U9 - U12 age groups and to get people to go to the New West Futbol Academy that aren't currently on either a Wings or Wayzata you will need to show parents that you can compete with them. Success breeds Success!!
Anonymous "get on the bus" Bangu parent...instead of putting down what Wings and Wayzata are trying to do, why don't you applaud their efforts. Bangu is not for every family.
ok weak MN get off it. see how good our kids are and see how good MYSA is. who cares if bangu has an academy - not sure what it is but I guess we can enjoy the fruits somewhere down the road. let there by more cl;ubs wanting to compete at the top. bangu is not the answer, and nonone has the final answer. mnonopoly is bad-mysa has proven that fact. we need more competition - more clubs with competetive minds - not cc minds
8:28,
The problem you face is that the U13 and other age groups have not cornered the market, so to speak, as far as talent goes. Bangu came close with the current U18's by demolishing NSSA and Burnsville teams when they were 15, and the Stars are close (though Wings and Woodbury are too close to give them much comfort and the Stars, though very good, have leveled off in the past year +). Inferno is a Woodbury team (even though Mark would like credit for them - get over it), and they do clearly have the market cornered at that age group.
My question here is how can you claim that Bangu has or is either training or consolidating the best talent? The 14's are the only academy team to accomplish such a feat, and it is widely known that the 13's were unable to lure 3-5 of the best players, who remain scattered at other clubs. As far as the 9-12 age groups, it's much too early to determine whether they have top talent. In fact, the same process of training players and then casting them off in favor of faster or otherwise more athletic talent will no doubt occur. So then we're back to they can't train just any group to win at the top level, and they appear at best to be able to demolish a couple of teams or lure some of the top players trained by other clubs to their teams, which makes them good enough to win here, but not at the desired level in the region. The real beauty here is the not-so-subtle propaganda contradiction between the "we're the best trainers" and the "we need to consolidate the best talent" arguments. They would be the best coaches if they had the best talent, I guess. I love it.
The point is that although the kool aid is highly intoxicating over there, you're just another happy (for now) gu parent who has yet to see the reality of the broader picture. Here's to kool-aid free living.
Many times the top talent doesn't come together until U16 when the players can drive themselves to training and games etc.
Until then if the logistics don't work for parents they stay in current situation rather than make the move to a truly elite consoolidated metro wide team.
Abboud didn't "invent the wheel" but he's bright enough to see how the wheel should work.
Storlien did this years ago with the Tsunami Gold boys team and then the Tsunami Sota girls.
Bob Hoaglin had the same blueprint and was the force behind the current Bangu Stars U17 team. The Stars are similar to an "Academy" team in that the nucleus has been together since the girls were U11-U12.
SCV did the same with a few age groups and WDB has the current U16 team that is close to achieving that the type of success the Sota and Stars girls have achieved.
Every age group in Minnesota isn't necessarily blessed with enough of the elite athletes necessary to be a region champion but unless you consolidate the talent and pair them with the right trainingand the right coach we're only dreaming we'll have success regionally or nationally.
Apparently we are doing that because every top girls team from U14-U19 has had success on the national stage. U14,U16 and U17 in particular.
Anon 4:45, your post begs the question, "On the girls side, what's going on at U15?"
1012 brings up a topic. Let us assume, correctly I think, that the WBY 16's and Bangu 17's and 18's are roughly equal in ability. I'm sure there are those that may feel one team is better than the others but that is irrelevant for this discussion.
1) He says Inferno has cornered the market on talent at U16. 2)He says the Stars have more competition at U17 than Inferno at 16. If both of these statements are true, then why is this? Is U16 that inferior in depth of talent to U17? How did it come to be that the U17 age group has so many more good players than U16?
Topic 2. Bangu 18 and 17, equal talent wise, but formed in completely different ways. Stars and Inferno formed at young age and have added to nucleus over the years. 18's formed by holding a tryout at U16 (raiding for you Bangu haters) and forming the team then from the best players at the CC's. The three teams have ended up roughly equal in ability. Does this mean that the CC's did just as good a job of developing the top players as Bangu and WBY (with MA involved) did? And again, while these three teams are relatively equal and are all easily the best teams in the state, there are more competitive teams at 17 than at 16 or 18. At 18 you can explain this as when the Bangu team formed it destroyed all the CC teams, but why 16? It is interesting to me how these three teams came about and how it has affected the rest of their age groups. Any other opinions?
? said,
Have the Bangu U18's won a similar number of out-of-state top level tournaments in the past few years as the U17 Stars?
Or placed as high as the U17 Stars in similar events?
From what I can tell I would think the Stars resume is a bit more impressive than the U18 girls when measured against high level out-of state opponents.
Interesting question however.
Anyone else have any thoughts?
Interesting posts ? and 832. I think it benefits an age group to have a high level team early on as it prods others to do better. I will use the Wings U17 team as an example. This team has steadily improved every year to become a team that can play with almost anybody. I am not saying they are an elite team, but they have been to Regionals twice and played MRL Premier and do not get blown out and have obtained some results. Very few #2 teams in MN could do this. I feel their continued improvement is due in part to chasing the Bangu 17's. Outside of bangu this Wings team has dominated their age group in MN. They would have won state cup every year as well as premier league. They likely would have been somewhat satisfied with this and not seen the need to continue to build their team and recruit new players in an effort to beat the Stars. They have worked hard and come from a team that was not very good by regional standards at U13 to become a competitive team at U17. Look at U18, no competive teams at a young age and when Bangu finally formed one at U16 there was nothing left. I realize the flaw in my theory is that Inferno has dominated the U16 age for a long time and nobody has risen up to challenge them. PSA and Bangu can compete but not really a threat. Don't know why this is, maybe just a lack of players at this age.
Great logo launch event for the Thunder/Lightning today.
Why is there nothing about this on the Thunder or Bangu Web sites? You would think they would start to promote this venture, considering fall tryouts are a little more than four months away.
Why cant MN do the same?
Date: April 1, 2008
Subject: Texans FC Announces Affiliation with Dallas Texans
For Immediate Release
Texans FC is pleased to announce its new partnership with America’s top ranked youth soccer club -- Dallas Texans www.dallastexans.com The Dallas Texans are a community of inspired individuals committed to the development of youth soccer players.
Texans FC was formed in 2006 and has quickly become one of the top boy’s soccer clubs in the United States. The club has 22 youth teams including the current U16 Dallas Cup champions. Texans FC has led the way in producing state, regional, national, collegiate, and professional
level players. Most recently, former Texans FC player Brek Shea was drafted by FC Dallas with the second overall selection in the MLS Super Draft.
Lee Baker, the Director of Soccer for Texans FC, shares his excitement about the future. “We are thrilled that the Dallas Texans reached out to us. This partnership enables us to provide more in the areas of total player, team, and club development.”
The Dallas Texans are known on a national level for their strong player development that produces state, regional, and national championship teams. In the past two years, they have won more national championships than any other club in the country. Hassan Nazari, Founder and Director of the Dallas Texans, met with the Texans FC Professional Staff and Board of Directors to thoroughly evaluate the potential benefits in professional services, exposure, and player opportunities that a Dallas Texans - Houston Division would offer players in the Houston area. The Texans FC Board of Directors unanimously voted to officially partner with the Dallas Texans Soccer Club.
Nazari is excited about the opportunities that this partnership will bring to players in both clubs. “I am very proud and excited about partnering with the powerhouse club in South Texas. I have always been impressed with the professionalism and the quality of the staff, teams, and players at Texans FC. This affiliation will create unlimited soccer opportunities for both clubs.”
The benefits of this affiliation are too many to list on one page, but the resources that Texans players will now have access to will far exceed any other opportunities in the State.
www.texansfc.org
8:29 Need help loading the van for your move?
Perfect example of why MN will always be playing catch up to most other states. I've heard rumors of major mergers in Iowa and in Wisconsin as well. IOWA AND WISCONSIN. And we think Wings-Wayzata is the answer here in MN for our top players? Laughable, but I guess it's a start.
11:57, well said, couldn't agree more.
My guess it will happen one way or another and ultimately 95% or so of MN soccer players will not even notice a difference.
Swedish Smurf
The Thunder gave it a go, no dice this year. Lots of reasons, some valid, some trivial. Same thing happened in Toronto when parent driven decision making local soccer organizations banded together in resistance to Toronto FC's foray into the youth development market. Everyone feels threatened. Ted, Wayne, Baake, etc.
My guess is that is will still happen, but now we're 4 or 5 years out from anything resembling a multi-club joint effort. Too bad really, but it is to be expected as we in MN continue to struggle to compete at the top levels consistently.
Someone mentioned about efforts in Iowa and Wisconsin. It will be interesting to see if those state can pull it together, without the Bangu/pro team/state association idiocy that hampered MN's attempt.
Let's move on. This subject is on the back burner.
I don't know where you heard it was on the back burner. From what I understand, this is a go.
this is a go...they are waiting on the announcement for a specific reason and not due to anything underhanded. The wait would definitely be worth it.
ooooooh secret announcement, like what, We're all on double secret probation for doubting the great and powerful oz?
3:21, get a life. In all seriousness, I am a neutral. I just can't stand the discussion polluted by the likes of you.
3:21,
People like you give me hope that not everyone is a kool aid addict. I think the announcement is that Embarrass, MN Soccer Club decided to join forces with the Thunder Academy. Will this the be the first time that Thunder and embarrass have been together? ;)
I heard it was the Climax, MN Soccer Club merging instead...
11:38 Your neutrality is obvious
oh yeah....my daughter's soccer coach can beat up your daughter's soccer coach....
8:44, sometimes the truth hurts. I am aware of the pros and cons of the proposal. I find myself favoring certain parts, and disfavoring other parts. I feel like those involved, working together, can decide whether or not it can or should work. I wish all sides the best and hope that the discussion is sensible, honest and for the benefit of our kids who love this sport. So, I am truly neutral on the proposal, but, yes, you are correct, I am totally biased against the petty and nasty jabs that are taken in this forum on this and other subjects.
Better than the Thunder academy, if we all really just cared about developing better players, have a training facility staffed by highly qualified coaches. No club coaches allowed within 100 meters ever. Keep all the distractions away from there, no team formation, no recruiting just soccer. This would never get off the ground as there are too many egos and people who need their living to come from youth soccer.
Anon 123 -
You forgot to mention parental egos, which is what drives 95% of the insanity in youth sports.
Parents would not go for your model. Without recruiting, or team formation, there would be no games. Without games how could Pushy P. Parent tell their work buddies how many wins their DD's team has, how high they are ranked in the state (or region, or nation!(yay, dad!!)), or how many goals they scored against some team from Nebraska.
In other words, your model would not stoke the egos of the parents, and would go no where.
Nice idea, though.
Yes and a further restriction if this is going to be a true Bangu /Thunder Academy , NO WOMEN COACHES allowed. This should be kept in good olde boys network, with as little justification and accountability as possible , besides WE COULDNT justify the coaches salaries with women on the staff anyway. Girls should just play the game and not expect to coach here.
What are you guys (the last three posts) talking about? It can't be that only intelligent people are backing the proposal...
Anon 3:25 - I disagree. Female coaches would be allowed. However, the women would likely be sent to the most obscure locations to train and given the lowliest teams to manage.
10:15 - Despite your obviously superior intellect relative to others at this blog, it looks like you need a little help interpreting those posts.
The way I read them, the posters are not necessarily against the idea of the proposal, though they do seem to display a mistrust of those doing the proposing...
See you at the next mensa meeting.
123, Nice rip on Nebraska, to bad they are usually better than most MN teams.
should read, too bad .. proper grammar fro all the egg heads on this blog
103,
It should read, for...maybe spell check would help if you want to have any impact with your shallow dig.
Complete sentences may help too.
obviously you are so intelligent the "irony" is wasted on you
nice try
Why don't you guys go back into your respective places in the trailer park and be quiet. Sheesh.
Please refer to our homes as "manufactured housing" as opposed to trailers. Thanks for your considerate behavior in this sensitve matter
Where is that announcement? What's the big news, gubies?
Careful there 12:21, The neutral posters on here will accuse you of trailer park living or worse!
http://www.roadtoregionals.com/9394g-journal/
Re: Road to Regionals
Am I reading the article correctly? The Thunder Academy idea stalled because "other" (i.e. not Bangu) clubs backed out. So what? Why don't the Thunder and Bangu simply go it alone? More to the point, why would anyone be that surprised to find clubs uneasy about a merger of this kind? It may be difficult for Bangu minds to understand, but many clubs exist for the sake of the local population. Also, the tone of the article speaks loudly. Perhaps this attitude is part of the reason other soccer “minds” were leery about joining forces. If this idea has merit, then let the Thunder and Bangu strike out on their own, take the big risks, put up a dome, develop a soccer complex, recruit trainers and players, and create a new MN model. I doubt anyone wishes them ill will. But, I really don’t understand why those not on board should be villified.
I read it differently. To me it sounds like like Bangu and the Thunder are moving forward and we will hear more in the coming weeks.
I also don't think the clubs that are not participating were villified. You would have to be over sensitive to read that.
10:44, I agree with 11:01 about the sensitivity comment. I don't get the sense that MA is vilifying anyone. He's speaking his mind and believes what he believes. It has a more resigned and weary tone to me, as well as one of resignation yet renewed determination. I would expect nothing less from this guy.
Throw stones at him all you want. He makes people angry because at times he has no issue with calling people out. If you read other posts (which I do) though you'll find that he stubbornly admits his own faults as well.
Like 11:01 I also think there is a movement forward regardless of others at this point. Good luck to them. 90% of the MN soccer population don't give a rat's behind to what MA, Bangu, and the Thunder are doing. The only ones who do are those who feel threatened in any way. If I'm wrong please provide other thoughts to the contrary.
To MA, I appreciate your willingness to post the proposal. I have received conflicting information from colleague in the youth soccer community as well as from key MYSA individuals. Your, Manny's, and Amos's comments clarify much. I think you'll be hearing from some people shortly with interest.
IMO and in hindsight, you made a mistake by approaching strong MYSA clubs first - though I see the rational. However, those clubs are the ones who feel they can address elite player development already, without the Thunder. Your best bet would have been to approach "second-tier" clubs like mine first. Just my thought, but I know we are interested in discussing options still and I think you’ll be hearing from us, looking for at least a sit down informal meet. Best of luck either way. The Thunder is, as Bangu/Wings have, pushing the envelope of youth soccer development in this State. If you get support of your program, we all take the next step. If you don’t find support, other groups will still be stepping up what they are thinking and doing for players to compete. In the end you’ve accomplished what hopefully was your goal all along, the elevation of the sport in our area.
Do these quotes sound complimentary:
... I don't think any of us expected the resistance we found.
...I believe this program will actually begin stronger in it's first years because of the initial lack of support from certain local organizations.
...Speaking for myself, it was frustrating to not get buy in from others.
...It did open my eyes more to the animosity that is out there in the soccer community towards myself and my club.
...But there are some who are now working harder than they ever have to undermine what the Thunder are doing
to,in my mind, protect self-interest
...This "uncertainty" in the Thunder proposal was eventually cited as a weakness and a rallying cry to not get involved,
... it is difficult to expect those on the outside to change their mentality overnight.
...Adding more ammo for naysayers
...This commitment (from Bangu) also became the major factor in why other clubs hesitated to get involved.
...However, in the end, the proposed affiliate clubs banded together and rejected what we were proposing.
...It's going to take time for people to grasp the bigger picture.
I don't think they sound complimentary or uncomplimentary. I do think they sound matter of fact.
I agree 2:57. This man is stating his take on things from his point of view on his blog. It is well stated, transparent, and one man's perspective. I really do feel sorry for people like 2:43 who can't find anything more productive to do with their time than try to call someone down for pursuing a progressive vision. You are obviously one of the "threatened" that anon 1:55 refers to. Go enjoy the spring day...
Nice try 3:25 "threatened" is another bangoober way of saying jealous to anyone who dares to disagree. I'm not in agreement 2:43 to a large degree but you do prove the rule that any critcism of Bangu or MA brings out the Goobers calling everyone jealous or threatened. Look at the manner in which there is not a "We have the best option.... pitch from Goo. It starts most often with a rip into the DOC or team coach of another club ripping on guys like Tudor, Harrison et al. it goes something along this line " blank is a good coach/doc but he can't offer your son/daughter what they need in the confines of a club ad nauseum. To the other poster, sorry but Wingzata is a glimpse of the future
Wingzata is a glimpse of a possible future, as is Thungu/Bangder. I don't think anyone can predict what's going to work or not work at this time. As one who's peripherally involved with one of the approached CC's, I'd have to say I didn't take offense to anything MA said, with the exception of the 'banding together' description of our response. We couldn't have cared less what the other CC's did, we were judging what worked for us. Right now, it didn't look like the perfect fit. If you're privy to contract negotiations and/or mergers, this isn't completely surprising that it might take some time to change the end product or the mind-set of one or more parties. And in the meantime, new parties may get interested enough to put their two cents in. I'm not sure that this was the best business plan that can be thought up by the soccer minds at Thunder. I agree w/SSmurf though, in that, if you look at their plan, the U13+ ideas are something that very few had any issues with. Then let 'em play the out-of-state competition. It'd be interesting to see if the savvy new owners really had much input on what was being put forth. My bet is not, but maybe it's temporary failure will get them out into the community to see how it needs tweaking.
IllBRtBack
Does anyone know where the proposed Thunder stadium / training facility will be built? This would seem an important detail to any club considering an affiliation with the Thunder / Bangu etc Academy.
St Paul!
My understanding is that the CC's that join (East/West/South/North academy) would stay in their area, the central location would be for the u13 plus teams.
Don't think it was a banding togetehr decision by the cc's.
However I got the feeling that the MYSA meeting did not help the cause. I was not present but the board members (I am not a board member just a coach) that went from our club was not as posetive after that meeting. For that to have been a real meeting Thunder should have had a chance to answer questions. Instead it turned into a meeting where the clubs present pretty much discussed what was bad with the plan and not what was good and what needed to be changed.
Swedish Smurf
Is St. Paul an idea or do they have land on which to build ?
Look for the St Paul development announcement in late summer.
After reading the posted proposal, I noticed one glaring difference. Based on the pink and blue arrows, the elite vision for the boys is much weightier than for the girls. What exactly is the Thunder connection to PSV Eindhoven ? I couldn’t find much in the plan that Bangu doesn’t already provide for the gals. In fact, all pink arrows seem to lead directly to the Lightning. This is a team already loaded with ex or current Bangu players and Bangu coaches. One of the mentioned Thunder front men is the power house behind the girl’s development program at Bangu. What it looks like, from my simple view, is that Bangu clearly helps the Thunder jumpstart the girl’s corner while trying to create a boy’s market. I’d be interested in knowing which CCs were approached and if they had large numbers of boy’s teams. Am I even close ???
I agree. This proposal is more about consolidating the boys side of the equation for the future of the Thunder than about the girls development to the Lightning (which is already there).
Wings and Wayzata are 4-5 years to late. It would be the same annoucement as Cottage Grove and South St. Paul joining forces. None are a real force in competative club soccer.
Maybe, but they can spell better than you.
Better than you
rhymes with bangu!
After reading the proposal... If MA is found anywhere but in the mail room (or further back), this will not go.
maybe... but can you provide some constructive feedback as to what is wrong with the proposal, rather than take shots at someone involved. Or can't you get past that part?
I'll take a shot at this one. The first thing I noticed lacking on the flow chart was a "college" layer to the vision. Most of the elite clubs I'm familiar with pride themselves on getting their players into D1 schools. Maybe this was addressed in the secret meetings?
How about the fact that from what I can tell there is nothing about this on the Thunder site. Instead, you can visit Road to Regionals to get your preview of the Thunder/Bangu proposed venture. Manny? Amos? New Owners? Unfortunately, all of this reinforces the impression that MA remains at the center of the initiative, which makes it a non-starter for so many local clubs.
How many local clubs does the proposal(he)need?
Proven already that he can build in south and East. All it takes is one club in each region and the program will sell it self.
Not trying to be difficuly but would it not be easier to all work together?
Swedish Smurf
anon 10:44
You'll have to trust me when I tell you Manny is 100% for this initiative. The new owners are 100% for it too. As is Amos.
This isn't an Abboud dream it's the new organizations vision.
If the new organization is serious they have to know how polarizing a person MA is. You will gain the support of the Bangu group, but risk losing the balance. This is being seen as a rebranding of Bangu with little or no gain to the CC's. What does' Bangu/Thunder gain from their proposal? FIELDS. One of the requirements to the CC's asked to participate in the program was complete access to local fields. It is too bad a system like this couldn't work. One top team at each age that never competes against MN teams and a complete disbanding of Bangu. This would be the purest way for the Thunder to develop a program that the CC's could support.
Thunder doesn't need the CCs in the end. The top players will come regardless of CC cooperation. The Thunder gave the CCs a chance to be involved, the CCs passed. Someone talked about the field issue above. What's the problem? The Thunder proposed to help players in the communities so doesn't it make sense that they might need a place to do that?
Volunteer non-soccer people in CCs and MYSA (and we ALL know that this type proliferates all CC boards) who have a true interest in their kids alone should NEVER be involved in an elite player development system. The best boys players will gravitate to the Thunder, to their PDL team, to their US Development Academy teams, and to their younger Academy programs IF the Thunder can build a quality product. Looks like they're on their way.
I predict more CC affiliations through US Club in direct response to the Thunder Academy.
I predict Blackhawks and MU merge
I predict all clubs move their tryouts to the earliest possible dates in fear of losing their kids
I predict clubs begin using years 93 or 91-92 and colors like Bangu has to give the perception of elite teams
I predict clubs begin advertising "academy" programs in order to compete
I predict clubs begin to look for sponsorships to give the appearance of the professionalism the Thunder are going to offer
I predict clubs will look to bring up an anti-recruiting rule at the next AGM
I predict 90 percent of the people who are working so hard against the Thunder proposal now will be gone and forgotten in 3 years as their kids get older and the parents gain some perspective and don't find the need to spent countless hours battling a program that is best for the elite players
It's the same old story...
Well, that's a lot of predictions and you seem to be fairly confident of yourself. However, to assert that the Thunder gave
"the CC's" a chance to be involved is flat out wrong. The Thunder hopped into bed with the gubirds and then approached 6 cc's (missing many of the best and largest clubs in the area). This was a huge gaffe and in the process of trying to browbeat them into joining this fiasco they also pushed MYSA to the point of potentially removing their support for the Thunder. I know, I know, the Thunder and bungay don't need MYSA or the cc's or their coaching directors or their top coaches or...wait a minute, I think we've managed to annoy even more people here than bangu had offended. It appears that this is the most noteworthy outcome of the Thungu effort to date. Congrats, guys, I didn't think anyone could do that.
I predict that bangder will continue to be a clownshow in the forest, making bold, foolhardy predictions and firing blanks from a silly popgun. I also predict that the new Thunder owners and management will eventually realize the error of their ways and try to sharply limit guber influence and open up to serious input from all area clubs. This is your fanbase as well as your playing future. Seriously, the fanbase was so whittled down by the previous ownership that the new group needs to appeal to people beyond the clownlumbia blue to fill the stands. The events of the winter will not build the fanbase. I predict nauseating gu responses to my predictions, which will be proven right anyway. I predict that in three years 9:45 will pull his daughter out (or have her cut) of guland and beg his cc to take her back...make that two years. Man, this is fun.
10:53, I don't know you but I do know you have no idea about elite player development. That's OK though. I'm sure your son/daughter is very good in many other things in his/her life.
The CCs who choose not to support the Thunder, pro soccer and the growth of the game in MN just because the Thunder are beginning to address elite player development will be seen through (their pettiness and selfishness) eventually. Moreover, the only clubs who will take real issue and slander the Thunder because of the Thunder's youth system will be the closed-minded or the ones who mistakenly feel they can best develop the elite players.
People with your thoughts and jealousies are the exact people the Thunder don't need and the very same people who will be insignificant in the years to follow as the poster mentioned above. Bangu will also be forgotten in the years to follow, unless people like you continue to call foul and keep revisiting old news.
Enjoy your kids enjoyment of the game. Let the elite players develop in an environment that will give them the needed tools to excel in the future.
IMHO, this academy idea / merger is premature. It seems to me, the Thunder organization has enough on it's plate trying to put together a successful team (with a few charismatic players) while planning their new facility. Once they re-generate some enthusiasm for the local game maybe they will have a base to expand. Vision is admirable but success breeds success they say. Something tells me if the David Beckham Academy came a courting you'd see a few takers.
1106 (MA) nice to hear from you. Socmom, good point. I looked at the Thunder roster. There are some new names, but it's hard to tell at this point whether they will take a large step forward this year. Who are the major acquisitions here and what are their pedigrees? This organization has been enduring (and inflicting on its fans) a slow death the past couple of years. Signs of life would be welcome.
I agree. What is the (realistic) outlook for the Thunder this year?
Most in the know expect a better performance from the Thunder this year.
Last year Amos was stuck with the lowest payroll in the league (none of these players make all that much to begin with) which put them at a disdavantage in attracting quality players.
This year's player salary budget has been increased significantly by the new owners.
They have been able to pick up some talent this year and with increased budget should be able to add even more talent next season.
Just because the salary budget is greater doesn't mean players are available to come over immediately due to their current contractual obligations.
But most who are somewhat involved expect better things this year and another step forward next year.
Deeper pockets is a plus in pro sports, even in a league like the USL.
Amos is better at finding excuses than finding players. Despite a gracious persona and above average soccer IQ some of his character flaws manifest themselves on his teams. He would be better served as MLS announcer or soccer channel commentator. His best attribute is his sense of the game and ability to express it .
Great results in Vancouver and in St Paul on Sunday could begin to hint at what Amos and company are able to accomplish with at least some meaningful financial resources being invested in the club.
I heard Bangu is one of those teams. Is that true? And if so, will they lose their partnership with Nike?
I looks like the Bangu field problem has been resolved with the Thunder move to NSC.
Better get on the Thunder/Bangu bandwagon now before there isn't any room. Just do a flip flop and jump on.
Give me a break 359 and 414 (probably the same person). Bangu ain't gonna get the fields for free and the "bandwagon" is not moving anywhere yet. For all the yapping that has gone on, there sure isn't a whole lot of beef.
Only the delusional think Thunder/Bangu won't happen.It's as good as done.The other clubs will come begging on bend and knee.
I don't think Bangu gets free fields today or expect they will at NSC now or in the future. They will however have great access to the fields.
But they will have "free" fields at the new Thunder complex in St. Paul in just a few short years.
Word is there will be a stadium field for elite matches and 3 quality training fields at the new complex near downtown St. Paul.
You know what drives me nuts? We're talking about the THUNDER here. I mean, is this really professional soccer when their players need to hustle kids to camps and coach youth teams to make a living? I just wish we could be attracted to something more than this. It's like getting the ugly, fat and drunk Baldwin brother to MC your charity event..."Dang, we could have had so much more."
Depends on which Baldwin. Personally, I would prefer the Baldwin grand piano myself. The upright is just too darn small.
anon 4:35,
You've got it all wrong.
That was the old Thunder. This new ownership group will be offering thousands of dollars in scholarships to the top Thungu teams to help defray costs, not utilize the youth players as a source of income.
Thunder players will not be coaching the youth teams. Will they help at camps? Possibly, but this isn't the motivation for the new owners who are wealthy real estate developers.
You should google some of the articles on this new ownership group and read some of the past discussions on the blog so you understand more about the potential Bangu/Thunder partnership.
Better yet come out to the game tomorrow night and watch the best soccer in the state on Minnesota. This new Thunder team is worth watching.
Big day today.
tick...
Cant wait for things to go public......
tick...
Storlien to be the new coach of the Thunder. The Thunder need a coach who can generate some offense.
tick...
Post a Comment