Monday, March 10, 2008
'08 Girls State Cup
With a regional champ at U13 last year, the hopes for up and coming regionally-competitive girls teams is high. The girl’s draw shows 16 teams entering at U16 and 17 teams at U13. Can the BNG U14s repeat? Will WDB keep a strangle hold on the U16 age group? Can the BNG 17s maintain their dominance? Can the Shattuck U18 girls really compete with the likes of BNG, TNK and WBL? Can anyone give the SCV U19 girls a run for their money this year?
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 533 Newer› Newest»your child obviously does not play for a bangu or you wouldn't be making such foolish comments. yes, it is not cheap, but that is more because your going out of town to play quality teams. get over it already!
Somebody has to.
If I'm reading the state cup rules right, The Bangu U-13 Girls (BTE14GPR01) should not have to play a play-in game at state cup. I know the U13 age group is a blind draw, but the rules also state that premier teams are exempt from the pay-in game...
2. f. Play-in Games
• The 2008 Minnesota State Cup seeded teams from 2007, 2008 Premier and 2008 Spring Midwest Regional League (MRL) teams will be exempt from the play-in draw except in the case of an all Premier/MRL group. If an all Premier/MRL Group with more than three teams the two previous Minnesota State Cup finalists will be exempt from the draw. If an all Premier/MRL Group is three teams the previous Minnesota State Cup champion will be the only team exempt from the draw.
• If Premier/MRL teams are required to play in a play-in game against a Classic team a specific draw of only Premier teams not seeded will be conducted.
• In age groups that a play in game is needed the teams selected for the play-in game will be identified at the draw.
• The team losing the play in game will receive $250 back from the tournament entry fee.
The key word for play-in games in the first bullet point is "seeded"
if you reference rule 2. d. Group Placement -
• U13 Teams - U13 teams do not have any seeded teams thus a blind draw will place the teams in the groups.
Therefore, they are not exempt from the play-in game.
You are correct it does say seeded, but it lists seeded teams, 2008 premier teams and 2008 MWRL teams separately. All of those teams are exempt from a play-in draw whether seeded or not unless the group consists of all premier/MWRL teams. It doesn't say they will be seeded it simply says they are exempt from play-in draw.
Therefore, since BTE14GPR01 is the only premier team in the field, even though they are not seeded, the play-in teams should have been selected from the rest of the field and then the random draw should take place.
I read it this way,
I first looked at 2. c. talks about seeding for U14-U19. no mention of U13, so I proceed to section 2. d. no seeding for the u13 age group. No real need to progress any further, since BTE14GPR01 a premier team I look at 2. f. and still look at the word "seeded"
I can see your point about the premier teams being mentioned separatley. However, IMO, 2. d. take precedence and since BTE14GPR01 are a U13 team for state cup, then they are not exempt.
This is just how I read it and in no way do I speak for the MYSA or State cup. IMO, they're out of luck and play Dakota Rev.
I don't understand why you are complaining. This is a free extra game. One that you don't have to travel to Las Vegas to play. Also, since your daughter's team is Obviously-the-best-team-in-the-state, they should have no chance of losing.
Take the extra game and go...
My daughter does not play for Bangu, she plays for the Dakota Rev team that is also in the play-in game.
I belive our girls would have a better experience if they were not facing one of the favorites to even get into the tournament.
Sorry if this is a duplicate, but my original post did not appear to show:
To the parents that had a girl cut from Bangu, or any other team, for the sake of your child, get over it. I sympathize that it is difficult to be cut from any team or group. I know some of you, and I understand that not making the team is one thing, but the friendships that were made during the previous season are really what matter. Soccer does not define friendships. The way that you have reacted and are still acting is negatively impacting your child. Life delivers many challenges, and the true test of character is how you overcome disappointment. You can blame others or accept the decision and move on. Instead of dwelling on it, why not encourage your child, set goals, and help them to become the best person they can? Holding grudges against Bangu, Mark, other parents, other players on the team, recruiting, etc. does nothing toward making your child a strong person. Life happens, learn to deal with it.
Oh good, I was afraid no one would predict bangu would win and their feelings would be hurt.
anon 1157,
Very good points, ecxept one, my take is the Rev are the ones that are out of luck.
Go Dakota Rev! Give it your all and anything can happen!
the real predictions for the state cup in particular at u13g should come after the Just For Girls tournament the week before given the teams there (Bangu, PSA, Burnsville, REV) . It will also be a good barometer of the state of MN soccer in the midwest at least at this age. I would guess that the teams there will come back to state cup with both an awareness of where they stand and a realization that they have a long way to go. R
anon 4:28 - agree that is a good barometer for MN soccer. Unless the MN teams meet up in the playoffs then it will be tough to gauge them against each other (unless you really know your IA & NE teams).
Let's get off the youngins for a bit, JFG for the older girls this weekend, some state cup teams? Predictions?
Let's get off the yougins for a while. JFG for the olders girls this weekend. How many State Cup teams are there? Predictions?
Prognosticators:JFG for this weekend. Mn teams, who will do well?
I see the couple MN teams( Bangu and Wings U13) results posted for West Des Moines games. Not so good! Does anyone know if any MN teams found success down there and if yes, did anyone see any games and could they elaborate.
The Bangu U11 Girls won the top division for their age! I am not a parent, but I caught about 30 minutes of 3 games. They played well and looked like they had a lot of fun. I don't think the scores are truly reflective since I think there were some restrictions on scoring.
I heard a coach and then a parent from opposing teams berate the players on their teams. These are 10 and 11 year old girls. It was really shocking. Did anyone else catch that?
LOL so much for getting off the youngins. Soccer parents evolve, it is generally the newer ones who tend to get overly wrapped up and populate the blogs. Nothing wrong with that, just a natural progression.
I watched the Bangu 14's White team play the 1st match, they tied Eclipse and were very competitive. 0-0 score.
That happens when teams lose. Our U12 coach last year wasn't happy when the girls lost and would not talk to the girls after the game or tell them they didn't deserve to be wearing the jerseys they had on, etc. Good coaches handle both losing and winning well but it is the rare coach that handles both well. Unfortunately when we try to teach our kids how to handle losing, a coach can set a bad example. They can tell you it is not always about winning but then act like it is.
Besides cold, any predictions on how Mn teams will do this weekend at JFG?
The real question is...
Will the fields in Coon Rapids be ready for state cup in two weeks?
I' beginning to become pessimistic.
Woodbury U13 is playing in the U14 purple bracket. It will be interesting to see how that team does.
or I'm. sorry about the typo.
JFG is so watered down currently that I am not sure you can read anything into the results except relative strength of the numerous MN teams.
agreed 9:36
I don't believe JFG will tell us much at all about State Cup.
The only way teams can be compared in Des Moines is if they happen to play eachother. Otherwise there's no way to guage.
There are some good teams, but not a real strong feild overall at JFG.
Best teams at JFG…ranked teams
U13
Strikers FV 95 White – 20 Region II
FC Barrington – 29 Region II
U14
None
U15
WDM Ice – 23 Region II
Any updates from the Just For Girls weekend one ? We have several MN teams participating and the tournament site is not updated with any scores yet. Any results would be appreciated. I need to get a life.
I can shed some light on results from JFG.
U15 Orange- Final was Eastside vs. Tonka. Eastside wins Championship on PKs-- congrats to the Eastside GK who put her team on her shoulders and won the game for them. Not to belittle the efforts of the rest of the team-- however the GK came up with two saves in PKs, scored her PK, and then stopped Tonka's GK on her shot. Fun game to watch.....favorite game of the weekend for me to watch!
U15 Purple--
Semis = Wayzata vs. Coon Rapids- Coon Rapids wins 1-0.
Finals = Coon Rapids vs. WDM Ice
Coon Rapids wins 1-0. Not a fun game to watch. CR scored on a breakaway and then went to some funky 6-2-2 formation to pack in the back. Not much in the way of soccer played here, it was kick and run. Still, CR beat a quality team here.
Many MN teams fared well in DSM this weekend, congrats to all of them. Field conditions were horrible as was the wind, cold, and Saturday's snow. Overall, not the most impressive soccer to watch....but it would have been tough to play in the conditions.
I will say that the field/weather conditions definately did not favor the more skilled teams this weekend.....I wouldn't read too much into the results.
Also, pretty difficult to read much into the results on a Regional level. I don't think I'd read too much into beating a bunch of Iowa teams. Iowa teams aren't exactly the "gold standard" with which I would measure the quality of my teams/clubs.
Agree with SSM, this was not a fun experience for the girls that participated. We had players comming of the fields in halftime crying because they could not feel their hands or feet. Hard to tell 13 and 14 year olds to focus on soccer in those conditions.
The good news is that atleast the girls on our team had a great time outside the pitch. Hopefully other teams did as well because it was impossible to try and play soccer.
Congratulations to the teams that had succes.
Will be interseting to see what the fields look like next weekend for the younger kids. The field we played on Sunday morning looked like it hand been used for hand granate practice the day before.
Swedish Smurf
woodbury 13's got their butt kicked at the jfg's this weekend. they should have played at their age group in top flight. it looked like a lot of chasing for them this weekend.
Anyone have scores?
There was a time when JFG was "the tournament" for aspiring MN teams. Now with more teams and younger teams heading out of state earlier in the year, the overall improvment in MN soccer, and what appears to be a bit of a dilution in the JFG entrants, this tournament seems to be struggling a bit.
I watched the Woodbury U13 team play for one half. They are a good Minnesota U13 team, but should have never played up a year. Why were they allowed to play in the top flight at U14. The rationale of getting ready for State Cup is crazy. How does chasing a bigger, stronger, older and better team around the field get you ready for State Cup. I believe the coaches made a big mistake. They should have played 2nd flight at U14. They still wouldn't have won but they would have been closer games and they would have been able to accomplish more than just chase.
It also is unfair to the older teams they are playing to have to play a team that they totally outclass. You go to a tournament to play good competition, not a wannabe younger team, or should I say coaches and parents, that has no business playing up. This is meant to be a general statement, not meant to target any particular team.
The U17-U18 bracket was bizarre. WDB 18's, who won the premier league title last year, were awful and managed to advance to the semis (got blown out) anyway. Bangu 18's (white) did not look good, either, and were blown out of one game as well. North Metro was somewhat better, but overall, those teams looked unprepared, even for 18's. BTW the conditions were dismal, but several of the Iowa teams looked much, much better.
also by letting them (13's)play in the top flight it kept a true 14 team from playing in the top flight. it is too bad they allowed this. on another note - the fields are trashed. not sure how they will recover for this weekend. it was an ugly weekend weather wise, but got to give all teams lots of credit no matter the flight/age for playing through it all.
Woodbury's U13 goalie played great from what I saw. She saved a lot of shots. If she hadn't the scores would have been worse than 5-0, 3-0, 3-0. The 3-0 games were not as close as the scores showed. Good Luck at State Cup!! If they end up playing Bangu at some point they should play for a tie and count on their goalie in the shootout. Bangu U13's don't have any real dangerous skilled players who are going to beat a couple players 1 vs 1. Playing smart defensive soccer will give them their best chance to win. I don't believe they could score on Bangu in regulation, thus, a shootout is their best option.
always nice to teach kids the "pack it in" defensive style. what's next, teaching them how to take a good old fashioned "dive" for a foul or penalty kick?
Why not. That's how I scored many of goals for my country.
And I don't think the Greeks or the Italians are complaining too much about defensive soccer. After all, it wins championships.
I don't know why there is a notion on this blog that teams have to play a certain style.
the big difference is the Greeks and Italians don't play for ties as espoused by the one blogger. last time I checked they had some pretty decent offensive players. i never said there was anything wrong with defensive soccer or even an "over-the-top direct" offensive style. defense wins championships. what he/she basically said was pack it in and play for a tie. if you agree with that sentiment then good for you. i don't believe that is how the game should be taught and that makes me no less right or wrong than you.
141, The point of the game is winning. Taking a dive is against the rules. Packing it in is something you do when you are playing against a team you don't really have a chance to beat in regulation. The coach is there to give his team the best chance to win and wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't play defensively in this case. I guarantee none of the girls would care what you thought of their game plan if they won. Klinsman you are right on the money. Jacques Lemaire used a defensive system to win a Stanley Cup with New Jersey. Everyone complained that it was boring and wrecking hockey except the players and Fans in New Jersey, and all they were saying was that "we are the CHAMPIONS"!!!!!
I never said teach the game to play pack it in, but sometimes you have to do what is necessary to win the game. You may not like it, but it is sometimes an effective way to get the result you are looking for and in this case that is the only thing that matters.
If you don't like teams packing it in then avoid going to the knockout round games at state cup. There is only one strong team in many of the age groups and their games will consist of their opponents packing in and playing bootball in the hope that they can win state cup and go to regionals and pack it in for another 3 games. Unless they draw SD or ND that is.
2:19 - bad example. did lemaire's teams win all their games in shootouts? no, they had to score goals either during regulation or OT. as stated previously, i have no problem with strong defense as i agree it wins championships. i am against the philosophy of "pack-it-in-and-play-for-a-tie". i hope i've made myself clearer.
Any results from the U14 or U15 Gold brackets?
There was a time when JFG was "the tournament" for aspiring MN teams. Now with more teams and younger teams heading out of state earlier in the year, the overall improvment in MN soccer, and what appears to be a bit of a dilution in the JFG entrants, this tournament seems to be struggling a bit.
Part of the problems alot of these tournaments are experencing are the lack of the more elite teams, why? MRL. Most of the more elite teams were scheduled for MRL and they are not traveling to the JFG's, WDM Games, NSR Region II tournaments etc. Not a bad thing thou.
The flaw in anon 1:26's thinking is...
Woodbury will not play Bangu. Tonka will advance out of that group.
2:41, have they ever played before and if who won?
JUSC (Johnston/Urbandale SC) 18s and the Ankeny 18s are the 2 best 18 girls team in Iowa. Half of the Ankeny 18s were U16 players. The JUSC 18s had some guest players playing.
Univ of Iowa was there on Saturday watching, Iowa State was there on Sunday watching. Both coaches watching the U16 WDM Heat and both the Ankeny and JUSC teams.
The reason these 2 Iowa teams are not playing Spring MRL is Iowa Spring High School season.
JFG results for last weekend are now posted on their website.
I haven't been on this blog for a while. In reference to the whiner (s) regarding the 13 State Cup play in game I'll write slow so you can have a shot at understanding. If the BTE 14 premier team had chosen to play 14 at State Cup they would then be covered under the seed rule At 13 they are not and no sense on entitlement so often exhibited by the parents can change the fact the rules were and are clear and followed by MYSA
I think it was the U12 Dakota Rev parents that were expressing their thoughts about "a better tournament experience" for their girls to not face a top ranked team in the play-in game.
2:29, What would you recommend a team do when they have no chance of winning playing a team straight up, but they still have aspirations of getting past that team. I still stand by my belief that Woodbury's only hope if they would play them would be hope for a tie and win in a shootout. Actually some teams play for the tie, and in the end and hope for the shootout in hockey. I also agree that pack it in and play for a tie is not the way to teach soccer but in some rare instances it's the only way they have a chance to win. You could then argue that they then don't deserve to win, but that's not reasonable.
Anon 1:26 and 7:25 - have you even watched the Bangu U13's play? What expert insight do you have to claim that they don't have any real dangerous skilled players? Do they have a monopoly on talent? No, but give them some credit.
going all the way back to poster 1:29 on 4/8 Typical response. we need to start an over/under on how fast the goo guys will get on and use the same tired "your kid got cut..." get a clue, not all kids, in fact most do not spend their time wishing to be on one of your teams.
oh really? Have you done a survey? How do you know most kids do not want to play Bangu? I think most kids DO want to make the top teams in the state. How many community clubs draw the numbers that Bangu does at tryouts? Why do people constantly criticize and throw rocks at Bangu players? Could it be jealousy? I think kids who truly have a dream of playing professional soccer do want to be on Bangu teams because it means the best chance of making college or professional teams. What other team has the reputation and exposure that Bangu does? Talk all you want about the JFG, but how many MN teams played in the WDM Premier games? Any other club with the numbers Bangu had? If you want to make broad statements such as these have some data to back it up.
10:00 WOW settle down. It will be OK, relax. It is clear Bangu has had success at several ages, but Most kids do not want to play for Bangu(Most means: more than any other option) Clearly the Aggregate total of kids playing soccer in MN shows that "most" do not desire to play for Bangu. Has Bangu created a strong "brand" ? No question, are there good or even dare I say great community club teams , I think so. I think it is great that you have such passion for your childs youth soccer experience and I am sure they will indeed realize their dreams of being a professional soccer player largely because of your superior training delivered from the superior trainers at BANGU.
quite an interesting board and alot of bangu supporters and detractors. having seen the club over the years the concept of aggregating and promoting top MN talent that can compete out of state is a good concept. the problem is that isn't always the result. if they took top players and played exclusively out of state it would be great. unfortunately, aggregating top players on teams and then turning around and playing community club tournaments in MN in towns with many of the boys and girls they recruited is not the best choice in my opinion. also having seen many of their league teams quite frankly be of poorer quality than many community clubs, it shows they don't always put an elite team out there. let's just be honest, bangu is a for profit club entitled to do what they need to do within the rules of the leagues and events they play in. it's not how many would do it but that is the beauty of free enterprise. of course i would rather see them be a truly elite club and focus on that out of state and then they would probably get the support of more community clubs. and again, if they field all elite teams and not as many stinkers the elite club status would be more appropriate. Right now they sit just above a strong community program but certainly not the elite model of many of the other top regional clubs. maybe they will get there some day but because they don't home grow their talent, unless the community clubs become stronger supporters, they will never be elite out of state (other than the occasional teams).
10:29,
I agree with your statement. The trouble is that the bangu directors want it both ways. They want to have big numbers ($), and call themselves elite. As you said indirectly, the result is that some of their teams are not very good, and they spend a fair amount of time celebrating beating MN cc teams with players they recruited (yep, the r word and before some gubie gets on here to decry my use of the word, I don't mean it in a pejorative sense here. The fact is that they do it and they are not alone.) All of this leads to considerable bitterness among the cc's which the gubirds write off as jealousy and the cc folks protest violently that jealousy is only a partial explanation. The remainder is the blindness and arrogance of the bangu types regarding their inability and/or unwillingness to recognize that all of this (large numbers and cash cow teams, recruiting, pounding cc teams with players that they helped train, and then celebrating their superiority) makes it impossible for the cc's to support them. I think the Thunder/Bangu dead end is a clear statement by many of the cc's toward this end. We do not have an elite club in MN. We have Bangu, but their greed and arrogance keep them from becoming what they might otherwise achieve.
1144, All of you are giving to much credit to Bangu Coaches for recruiting. Yes they do recruit, but a huge majority of the players come over because the kids and the parents want more. Their success is their biggest tool in recruiting. All you have to do to keep the Top players in the CC's is beat them. Parents and kids are competitive and want to play on the top teams and that is why they leave and try Bangu. It is that simple.
Just because they have several teams at the same age group does not keep them from being elite. Every top club in other states has multiple teams at each age group and yes they also lose games and yes they are still considered Elite Clubs. Yes Bangu is an Elite Club, to say they are not is ignorant. If WINGS or Dakota Rev was the top club you all would be complaining about them. Most people like to tear down whoever is on top and if someone else ever takes over as the dominant club you all will try to tear them down also.
P.S. Do you really believe their greed and arrogance is the problem. CC's will never like them or support them because every kid to them is a $$ sign also. Let's just call a spade a spade and stop pussyfooting around the subject. It would be great if CC's would encourage their top players to go try out for the top team at their age group. It's in the best interest for that kid to be challenged daily with better teammates. Unfortunately CC's maybe have one player in each age group that has the ability to play at the top level and the kid who is at that level suffers and will never reach their fullest potential. I'm not saying they won't be good or even great but they could have been better.
No offense, but I really don't agree that Bangu is an "elite" club by any stretch of the imagination. They are a decent club who gets decent results in area tournaments, but typically don't get positive results against real Regional powers.
I would say that in a Minnesota/Iowa/North and South Dakota perspective....you could call Bangu "elite". But, not so much in an Illinois, Ohio, California, Texas perspective.
Again, this is not out of a dis-respect or any other agenda. Just trying to set realistic perspectives.
I bascially agree with one of the anons above who said there is not currently an "elite" club in Minnesota.
Spot-on SSM South, The model currently used by Bangu will never get the consistent results desired. Add to the mix the alienating manner in which some of them do business and you have a recipe for mediocre teams without the support of the soccer community.
JFG Results
http://menacesoccer.com.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Tournaments/JFG/Schedules%20and%20Scores/JFG%202008%20results.pdf
SSMSC you are mistaken and if you look at results you will see that. I am not sure what the cutoff for "elite" is. Bangu is obviously not at the level of a the Texans, Hawks, Eclipse, SoCal Blues etc. However on the girls side they are certainly the equal of other top region 2 clubs such as St. Louis SC, Carmel, FC Milwaukee, Internationals, etc. Agree that on the boys side they have a ways to go. Their results out of state and at regionals recently stand up well against any of these clubs and will continue to improve with the academy teams at younger ages. For example, the MN record at regions last year was 12-5-4. I believe that was the 3'rd or 4'th best record of any state and most of that was Bangu.
How about we stop promoting the myth that top players can only get better by playing (implicitly for Bangu) on teams with other top players. There is no evidence to support this I would guess that 99 % of the kids could train or play every day of the week very close to home. There are tons of training opportunities older teams, younger, outside trainers and such. If training and work ethic were important, questions regarding year round commtment would be part of any tryout and selection. What passes for self labled Elite soccer now is simply a concentration of atheletes.
ssm, how cab you say Bangu is not an elite clib? (see #19)
2007 Girls Club Rankings
1 Dallas Texans (Dallas, TX)
2 Slammers FC (Newport Beach, CA)
3 Eclipse Select (Libertyville, IL)
4 PDA (Zarephath, NJ)
5 Carmel United SC (Carmel, IN)
6 Dallas Sting (Dallas, TX)
7 St. Louis SC (St. Louis, MO)
8 Michigan Hawks (Livonia, MI)
9 FC Milwaukee (Milwaukee, WI)
10 Mustang Blast (Danville, CA)
11 So Cal Blues (San Juan Capistrano, CA)
12 Sereno (Phoenix, AZ)
13 Ohio Premier (Columbus, OH)
14 CASL (Raleigh, NC)
15 D'Feeters (Farmers Branch, TX)
16 Solar (Dallas, TX)
17 Real Colorado National (Highlands Ranch, CO)
18 Crossfire Premier (Redmond, WA)
19 Bangu Tsunami FC (Minneapolis, MN)
20 Charlotte SC (Charlotte, NC)
21 Bethesda SC (Bethesda, MD)
22 TSC Challenge (Spring, TX)
23 Blue Valley Stars (Overland Park, KS)
24 San Diego Surf (San Diego, CA)
25 FC Bucks (Richboro, PA)
1:26 and 725, I have seen that team play and I don't believe they could hope for a tie.
I’m going to preface my comments by saying this, no my daughter does not play for Bangu. My daughter’s team did face the 13s a couple of times over the winter and here’s my take.
They do have four or five VERY talented players. There are two speedy forwards, one real tall girl and a blonde girl. They can get to balls in space and have the skills to make plays when they get there. Their center mid is one of the best players with the ball I’ve seen at this age group. She is very creative and always seems to find a way to play to a teammate, even in traffic. Their defensive mid is fast and decent with the ball. The right defender is strong and powerful and always seems to be in position.
The rest of the girls on the team are solid for the most part. I think the coach does a good job of mixing them in so they can play to their strengths. The keeper is okay, but still developing, not all that unusual at this age.
Will they win state cup? Who knows? How can anyone really predict until they get on the pitch.
Could they win state cup? Definitely.
They will score on a team that lays back and defends. Even a 1-0 win is still a win.
Quite simple answer, (I'm not SSM) If Bangu was not ranked, all you bangoobers would be on here pontificating about the meaningless rankings. See earlier posts about their 13 team rankings
In the past few years Bangu teams have wins over the top teams from clubs ranked #3,4,5,7,8,9,11,13,14,17,20,23,24 and 25 on that list.
Win Win Win, its all about wins. Gotta get that Ranking, at U13? Ranking U13's..You have got to be kidding.
The ranking of 13's is all part of the carefully crafted package to make parents, not 11 year old kids, feel bad about where they are and the only way to be a good parent is to get your kid on an "elite" team.
806 I will wager that 2/3 or more of those wins are by one team. One team (or 2 or 3) does not an elite club make.
It would be interesting to have an honest survey of young players if they are truly happy playing on their team? So many are just doing what their parents want them to be doing.
BNG U18's have been successful since their creation as U16's.
BNG U17's have been successful for many years.
BNG U14's have been successful for the last few (meaningful) years and won RII Regionals.
That would be top level teams at 3 of the 5 most important age levels (U14-U18).
Is it every team at every year - no - but compare these results with 5-7 years ago and you'll see an improvement.
Bangu does not have some special recipe for success other than doing a better job at pooling the top talent at most respective age groups. Woodbury U16, SCV U19's have had comparable success by following the same formula. Every year the Woodbury U16's pick up another top player to add to their roster. Do they recruit? No, they don't have to (just like Bangu does not have to). Success breeds success and the parents follow the victory train.
blah, blah, blah. For 3 years, I've been reading the same discussions about bangu and nothing ever changes in the postings. People, it's simple. To those who are not with bangu, bangu serves as an option for families who want more for their child's soccer playing experience. To the bangu parents, your club is not for everyone and it's time you realize that. There is no answer when it comes to families deciding what's best for their child. Why rip people who choose to stay in their community? Why rip people who choose bangu? Everyone needs to get over it and realize what's best for them might not be best for their neighbor.
Just for the record Woodbury U16 does recruit and they should. Fall 2006 I was asked to coach the to be Eagan U15 team. I was told that all players was staying from the previous year. Only to found out that when I returned from vaction one player had been contacted by Woodbury and would play for them.
I did not even try to talk to her about changing her mind because I know that was what was best for her. The reason I bring it up is that it is wrong to say that Woodbury and other CC clubs that try to be the best they can be don't recruit.
As I have posted before I support recruiting but their is a way to do it and a time to do it.
As a cc coach I have never and will never stop a player from leaving for a better opportunity. What I will do is talk to the parents and especially the player involved about what we can offer and than they can make educated decision.
I even contact MA last year to see if he was interested in any of my girls. I did this because I felt that MA's team was the only one that would offer something that we could not.
In response to a previous post who cares where a club ranks or where a team is ranked, what matters is that the players have fun and develop in a challanging environment.
Should all teams have goals yes but it should not necessary determine succes.
A perfect example of this is JFG this weekend we had goals that we where not even close to accomplish. The trip was still succesful becuase the girls had a lot of fun, bonded togetehr and we learned to deal with things we can't control. These are all things that I know will help us the rest of the season.
On a side note I wish that the 16-18 best players in each age group all played on one team and represented MN. As long as they don't play other MN teams. I think most people agree with this and it is sad that we (adults involved in youth soccer) can not find a way to get it done. who cares what the name of the team would be.
Swedish Smurf
To klinsmann and smurf...
Bravo!
well the dialog on my comment from 10:29 last night is great, thanks for the perspective. i guess i should have expected some emotional bangu bashing and bangu defending but that wasn't the intent. the only thing i find a bit disingenuous is the assertion in posts like 9:29 am that bangu 'does not have to recruit'. That is misleading. I have had several kids directly scouted, ranked and recruited by bangu and have shared the conversation with other club coaches and tournament folks. saying 'they don't have to' does not work. for the bangu folks, just be sincere, the coaches, parents, players, etc. are cultured to go out and identify top players, document them, scout them, invite them to guest play or to camps and then try to get them to join the club. again, that's a great strategy to recruit new players. that's called recruiting. the other interesting point is will a bangu support admit that they have c2 and c3 level teams and players that they keep in the program for the purpose of funding the top teams? meaning, these tier 2 and 3 level players instead of saying 'you don't measure up to the bangu elite level standard of excellence and commitment so please stay in your community club and try later', they bring in these players, give them less focus and attention and commitment (perhaps newer coaches as well) and use the money to fund their top teams. why don't they just be honest about that. maybe they are honest about that but my understanding is they oversell the dream to low level players and the result is frankly kids overpaying for cc level training. lastly, on the flip side, i believe bangu has forced community clubs to raise their own standards and as that continues to happen (year round training at cc, more out of town travel, etc.) both the quality of MN soccer will improve across the board, CC will compete better and keep more players and frankly, clubs like bangu will become less relevant within the state. bangu will become the next kelix over time as cc raise their own standards and the differentiation between bangu and cc narrows. all this chatter in the end is good for MN soccer the question ultimately becomes who 'wins' the cc or the for profits.
Hopefully the kids win =)
Swedish Smurf
11:12 - solid post. I don't agree with everything you say, but the one point that I would more strongly disagree on is whether bangu (or thunder) will become less relevant in the state. Until one CC can annually consolidate the top talent, then there will always be the need for a bangu/thunder or some new "non-community" tied club. Hockey, AAU basketball, baseball all have "all-star" teams at the older ages. Parents will always seek out the "top team" regardless of the club affiliation. You could have 4-5 really good CC teams at U13, but trust me, the parents (and a coach or two) of the top players on those top teams will be working behind the scenes to put together a compilation of all the top talent.
To 11:12 Anon. best post I've read on here in two months!
11:25 I believe over the next year or two someone will put forth a more metro or state team concept possibly bigger in scope but along the lines of Wingzata. Teams form and train players still have option to play club soccer these teams play out of mysa leagues and get into State cup by SSM style league. This will be the leap needed to get the true top talent together and will happen outside or in competition with the Thunder/ Bangu business
Smurf,
It's great that you want your top players to leave your club. This will certainly not help you field quality teams, though we are impressed with your unselfish nature. Please send us your top players. In fact, post a message on your club website with the names of your top players (encouraging them to leave). If you post contact info, that will make our work easier.
Sincerely,
Gubirds and "cc's".
People like to rave on here about their unselfish efforts to put the kids first. That's all well and fine, but we really miss part of the argument here. It's not just about the individual kids. It's also about those they play with. The gubirds love to put the "cc's" (lovely pejorative term) on the defensive by decrying their treatment of players as "possessions" and claiming that top players can't develop unless they are with the other top players. This is useful propaganda, but it's also a symbol of the naivety of each new generation of parents who buy this crap and it's a symbol of the fact that we are teaching our children to put themselves first and to look down upon their neighbors rather than taking pride in playing with their local club and working to see that their children's training and competition needs are met (read: Wingzata). There are cases where there are players who need to leave to find a suitable playing environment. However, the vast majority of new gubirds are leaving their clubs for guland because of what they have been promised rather than what they are leaving behind. Very few coaches and clubs see players as possessions, but they do take pride (except DR, apparently) in building strong teams. We should think about what the loss of a top player means to each team they leave as well as the benefits to the individual player in leaving. If your club aspires to something other than C2 and C3 status for your teams, you need to have your top players there to help improve your next group of players and to assure their collective competitive success. I would want my child to play for a club that would expand it's coaching and training options to cater to all players, including the top-flight players (see Wingzata again), not one that opens the door and hands out kool aid cups with a smile. These clubs, not bangu (or thungu), are the future of competitive soccer in MN. Oh, and the key to the "kids" winning is the plural nature of the word.
Funny - it is never hard to figure out the Bangu parents from the non-Bangu parents when reading the vast majority of these posts.
11:49...
Deep clensing breaths. in through the nose, out through the mouth...
11:49 actually brings up some good points. Maybe you don't agree but we are all entitled to our own opinions.
And the funny thing is, 3 years from now all this talk about the U-13s will be forgotten about.
I was at JFGs this weekend with a U12 Dad, we were watching a U18 match (his first) and he said/noticed how none of the parents were yelling and screaming on the sidelines. I laughed at that. New parents of U11-14 need to give all this stuff a rest, 80% of the times, these teams will change from U13 Regional Champions to U18.
Right on 11:49.
11:49 Nailed it! Well done.
Come on folks. Athletes aspire to play for the best teams. It takes confidence and guts to try out against other good players.You have to overcome the fear of failure.
Those who say playing with and against the best doesn't help simply don't know what they are talking about.
I have never heard a kid say I want to grow up and play for some minor league team.
After a kid plays a sport for a couple of years you can tell if they have the natural athletic and mental ability to progress to the next level.Those who do not should find another sport.
Smurf said:
"On a side note I wish that the 16-18 best players in each age group all played on one team and represented MN. As long as they don't play other MN teams. I think most people agree with this and it is sad that we (adults involved in youth soccer) can not find a way to get it done. who cares what the name of the team would be."
Smurf, we already have the best 16-18 players on one team at age groups U16-U18. You may be able to find an exception or two among players 8-18 but not many and certainly not among the top 5-6. These teams do not play other MN teams except during state cup. So your wish is happening right now, but that still does not change any attitudes.
1:21 That last paragragh could be the most ignorant thing posted here. It is important to play even for kids who are not great atheletes. Check your priorities
To 11:49
Don't have much time but will try to keep it short.
I never said that I or the club will give up our players.
I can not think of one player that REV have lost becasue of recruiting or better options) since the fall of 2005 when a whole team went to Bangu (would have been u13 this year many has since returned) and that was prior to Nels D taking over after Brin.
If you have read my previous post you will know that I recruit and that I support recruiting. I do it because it helps to keep players in the club and their development
What I did say was that if a player has a chance to play on what is not only the best team in MN but also in the region (based on last year) I think I should help her do so if that is what she and her parents want and if she is good enough.
If my team was to fall a part because one player left to go play on what is clearly the best team in the state than I guess my team was not that good and the otehr girls where in it for the wrong reasons.
What is dangerous is if multiple players leave and the only way you can avoid that is to provide what they want.
Totally agree with you about the younger ages.
Where I think we may disagree is on how to go about putting all the the top players (weird word) that are interested on the same team. Wingzatta may be a good start Bangu Thuder may be a good start who knows but the important part is to try and work togetehr.
On a side note toatlly agree with 12:19
Swedish Smurf
To 1:24
I know and agree.
Don't know how all those players came together. I am sure it would have been easier if all clubs had worked together from the start knowing that at a certain age (different discussion what is a good age) the goal of MN soccer is to have one really solid team that can compete nationally.
Personally I don't know how important the succes of one team is for the development of the whole state.
Swedish Smurf
I hope 1:21 is not a coach.
As a parent of a player on one of the "lower-level" Bangu teams, I can shed some light on a few things. First, none of our dollars go to support the "upper-level" teams. I have seen our budgets and statements first hand and have asked the question before. Second, I am very happy with the level of training my daughter receives. The coach is not Abboud, Storlien, Singer or Cook, but my daughter has learned about the game and about life. In addition, three of the four coaches I just named have run sessions for our group at no additional cost for us. Lastly, we came over to Bangu because my daughter loves to play year round. She is not the most athletic or talented player, but she is dedicated. Bangu offered the most year-round training opportunities for her and that is what she was looking for. She would love to move up to one of the top teams, but, honestly, that might not be in the cards. She's happy so I'm happy.
11:49, First, Wingzata is a knee jerk reaction to the Bangu/Thunder proposal. They were afraid they would lose revenue (I mean Kids).
You state that it's not just about the individual kid but also about the other kids. Why would someones kid leaving to go play somewhere else affect another kid on the team except when it is the top player leaving and that player leaving is the majority of the reason that team probably wins. Lets be honest, the reason everyone gets bent out of shape when a top player leaves and goes somewhere else is that team will not do as well and the parents and coaches of the old team hate to lose. Coaches and parents from CC's also feel that when a kid leaves to go somewhere else that it is blanket statement that the coach and the kids were not good enough for little Mia. It's all about Winning and Losing!! As a parent making decisions for my child I do what I think is best for them and I would be foolish to put their old teammates interests above my kids. You also stated collective competitive Whole(Do we live in the Old Soviet Union) where the top players help the bottom player get better. WOW, that's a real liberal statement even coming out of Minnesota.
Swedish Smurf- I applaud you looking out for your top players and trying to do what is best for them. Even if that meant leaving your current team. Any player would be lucky to have a coach who puts the players best interests ahead of their own. It may not be a popular decision to the masses but is the best thing you can do for certain players.
Your belief that Bangu brain washes parents with Promises (KOOL AID) is a joke. Basically you think all Parents who leave a CC are idiots and can't think for themselves. Give them some credit they left their CC to try something else knowing that all the parents and coaches would ridicule them from their former teams.
I am glad your family is happy with your Bangu experience but please tell you are not expecting a soccer organization (bangu or any other)to teach you child about life. Too scary!!
What are you talking about 255? You don't think a youth sports organization can teach good, life-long character habits? There are many, many Fortune 500 companies prefer hiring recruits who have had youth sports experience, based on the valuable life lessons sports teach. Each and every club here has a responsibility to provide fun, safe soccer environments that promote human development as well as sport-specific skills development.
NO,
I expect any sports organization to teach the game in which they are enrolled. If an organization reinforces morals and life lessons that kids are taught at home it is a plus but I for one am not looking to Bangu or any other sports coach for life lessons for my son/daughter.
I suppose you also look to teachers for those as well?
Come on, most of the post here are saying "IF the best player leaves a club" that they wont do good?? What does that mean in Soccer?? It takes 11 to play on the regional level (really it takes 18). Sure, the best player may score goals, but what about the mids passing the ball, what about the back line holding the other team scoreless? I can go on and on about this. Best players?? LOL Very rec minded if you ask me.
to 2:34 - that is a great post about your child playing on a 'lower level' team and i bet you have a healthy, adjusted child that enjoys soccer and her bangu experience. thanks for the post. i believe that the experience you have should be found in the community clubs and in many cases is starting to show up. my daughter was approached by both a 'progressive' community club and bangu and in the end both offered nearly the same year round training programs and summer league and tournament opportunities. of course the community club is significantly less cost and by the fact it is available to my child I took it. that said, in communities where this isn't available for profit clubs like bangu make sense. my only point was as time goes on, some community clubs are raising their standards and their own year round programs whether out of the noble desire to serve their community demands for more competitive programs or the more nefarious desire to keep kids away from the for profits. whatever the charge, i believe within a few years there will be numerous cooperative community clubs perhaps pooling top players for US Soccer events but remaining with their friends and club teams for leagues and tournaments. like i said, it goes back to my original post about bangu, if they delivered on their charter to truly be an elite level soccer club for the very best MN players to showcase their talent on a regional basis that would be awesome. smartly they have diverted their focus and resources to fill the gap in community clubs for year round training but that window is closing. obviously by opening multiple new academies across the metro they are looking for top players within a regional center in the twin cities which is smart for their current strategy and given the head start over community programs. that said, if I were them given they have already had to collapse some teams and send kids back out to the community i would worry i am starting to over reach (clearly the Thunder issue showed that). they are currently on a wide and shallow strategy across MN as opposed to a narrow and deep one. thanks again, I only wish that more people like you would leave the pettiness out of the discussion and talk more high level.
some of you have proper perspective of youth sports, most of you are living your life through your child so you can go to work and brag about how good your kid is doing to make yourself feel important. sad. you'll see the ones I'm talking about as they come out and trash this comment. They're offended and angered and will lash out.
Question, If CC Club is playing at a major showcase, and Bangu is playing at the same time same event, what team do you think the college scouts go and watch?? MN is known for Bangu, IL Eclipse, MI Hawks...just the way it is.
An old fashioned hate bangu - defend bangu feud on the blog........haven't had one of these in what - a week or so. I guess the only other option is for the two sides to band together and rag on SSM.
4:56....I believe this has already happened on many occasions?
best player = my kid.
players holding my kid back from achieving stardom with the national team = everyone else on my kid's cc team.
To 4:48
Any respectable coach should do their research and therefore look at all players at a showcase. Agree that they may not all get as much time but the bottom line is that if a kid can play they will find him or her.
Also if a girl really want develop why not try Europe where they actually have year around training and leagues for woman (how much you train and develop is not decided by NCAA, NCAA and college sport is great but it does not allow US to be the best they can be and that goes for all team sports).
Their is a reason Martha plays in sweden =)
Swedish Smurf
4:48 where did that drivel come from? ooooh let me guess, A Bangu director? Have you been a college coach? Bottom line is no college coach good at her job will keep that job being that lazy. Remember college coaches find players in all sports in backwater Arkansas without the "aid" of directors of elite clubs. Good players will be seen and recruited the rest is self serving babble from people who have a ve$ted interest in making you feel bad about your child's soccer team
254
Your comment that the Wingzata project is a "knee jerk" reaction to Thungu or whatever calls for a reaction: "SO?" Either the gubers want to call it a knee jerk reaction or they take credit for raising the level of soccer here (or both, which must be really gratifying!). You've got to be mentally irregular to charge that those two clubs were worried about losing money. Do you think the Thunder and bangu were proposing to hijack competitive soccer in this state as a community service project? Your argument is pointless.
As for your reference to one player not affecting the development of a team, how about taking the top goal scorer or goalkeeper off of any of the state cup champions? How would those coaches, players and parents react? It is about winning and losing, but it applies the same at every level, and it is useful to turn the argument upside down and look at the top level to illustrate the point.
If you believe that the loss of one player can not affect a team, I hope you are not a high level coach. Most would look at their lineup and say that if they lost a key player it would definitively affect their team's results and also their development. This is not about a premier player helping a C3 player develop. It is about a good central midfielder developing by playing next to a terrific one. That relationship is not one-sided, either, as a good coach will help them learn from each other and together. This applies all over the field, and it's a standard guber propaganda piece to appeal to the vanity of parents and say that their child "deserves better."
As to your attempted history lesson, you don't need to advocate life on a collective farm to teach kids to appreciate their teammates and work within your community to improve programming. Certainly there are situations where it is necessary for a player to leave, but the majority (the vast majority) of the time, these are poorly informed, vainglorious parents (not demented, but naive) who just don't know any better. The great thing for bangu is that each year there is a new crop of parents who are a blank slate for them in this sense. The only thing we apparently agree upon is that parents do have crazed ideas about their kid's abilities. That problem has been exacerbated in recent years by the advent of this culture.
Would you like to try some kool aid?
It may behoove you to look at the rosters of top-level college programs to see how many players (who are American) played for "backwater Arkansas" clubs.
First, you might want to remove your bangoggles to see more clearly. So you've shifted the focus from the " get a scholarship" to look at the top program in the country. I don't need to, you are correct. So we'll agree the kids who get in the top say 10 programs come from name clubs. I submit the kid and family found the club same as a gymnast who is in a top program rather than handing out wow or I D cards to 9 year olds. For the rest of the kids who are in tier two or lower D-1 programs they will be found quite well by appropriate schools for them. Also if your measure of only looking at rosters of "top programs in the country" is used, I would submit that our self described elite program is an abysmal failure. I don't think it is, but in typical goober fashion you need to have it both ways.
OMG-How about letting all the little princesses play on the pitch, go to school and live life without there parents acting as there little puppet masters.
There are some folks on here that serousily need to step back from running there childs life and catch a clue
Okay, I’ve been silent too long. I always promised myself I wouldn’t get involved on this site, but here goes…
The flaw here is parents think their kids are playing for scholarships. Shouldn't they be playing because they love the game?
This is only part of a bigger problem. Parents who drag their little superstars all over, not because that's what their son or daughter wants, but that's what the parents want. I don't care what side of any issue someone's on, if they lose site of the fact that this is still a game, they rob their child of some passion for the game. I see it all the time.
The mother or father who is gyrating their legs every time their kid touches the ball and is yelling instruction (usually counter to what the coach is telling the kids) from the sideline. Then the parent gets the kid in the car and begins a tirade of negativity that carries over to the field. All this parent is doing is robbing their son or daughter of a positive experience and setting them up for disappointment because they've made their kid believe they are better than they truly are and no scholarship is offered.
My daughter lives for soccer. Not because her parents think she should play, but because she has developed a passion for the game. In fact, I knew very little about the game before she started playing, I would have rather seen her play basketball or softball, but she didn't enjoy playing those games. The day that passion for soccer disappears is the day she's on to something else and that's fine with me.
My daughter does play for Bangu. Not because she was recruited, but because she wanted a higher level of training and competition than her CC could provide. We went to Bangu with open eyes after several conversations with her CC coach and the president of her club who both recognized that they could not challenge her to the extent she wanted and whole heartedly encouraged her to tryout for Bangu. (I won't name the club because they'll get hate mail).
Is she good enough to get a scholarship someday? I have no idea. Would it be nice? Absolutely. But isn’t a player’s chances of reaching that level a lot higher if they play the game with passion because they love to play, not fear because they have an overbearing parent who will yell at them if they don’t succeed?
The only reason I can see for all the bickering that goes on is because parents lose sight of why their kid started playing this game in the first place and it is no longer about the kids, it’s about the parents.
So how was the turnout for the inaugural Wingzata tryout last weekend?
Bangu parent, you are talking heresy. You have been shielded from or naieve about the brand of sales used by your club. Parents of 9, 10. 11 year olds are told mystical tales of college scholarships, of course only attainable by playing for ... you guessed it Bangu. I agree with all earlier posters, scholarships are way down on any list of reasons to play soccer, the problem is having to spend so much time trying to clear that up with a parent after a visit or phone call or parking lot stop and chat by the goo crew. So help me to help you stop promoting scholarship as a reason to join.
anon 3:32
We must be shielded or maybe our situation was different because we weren't recruited so no one ever had to promise us a rose garden. We simply tried out and made the top team. The only conversations I had with anybody at Bangu before that try out centered around training, commitment, coaching and travel. I wanted to make sure we knew what kind of time, travel and finaincial commitment we were looking at before making the change. MA and other were very upfront with us in those conversations and we have had no surprises since. Not once did the "S" word come up.
I can only speak to what I see first hand and we've had a good experience for the past two years. No one on the team has complained about the "goo crew."
I don't think scholarships are the reason to join, I would never promote that as a reason (but I agree some parents do) so we find some common ground.
As I said above (see 9:43), our daughter was looking to challenge herself and our CC steered us to bangu, that's the reason we joined.
Okay, new promise to self - no more posting here...LOL
Bangu Tsunami Girls Class of 2008
21 Division 1 Scholarships
Bangu Tsunami Class of 2009
18 Division 1 Signees to Date
Would love to know what the other clubs in MN have for D1 scholarships??
Please provide one single piece of concrete proof of ANY 9, 10, or 11 year old promised collegiate scholarships, or threatened with the verbiage that you had to play for Bangu to get one. People like you keep on propagating the Bangu myth in an attempt to keep your possessions yours. Keep reaching...
5:02 List how long each player was with Bangu, Bet majority were two seasons or less. Now we can hear about Bangu "developing" players some more
Class of 2008
4 have been with the club since U11
16 started at U16
Class of 2009
All 18 have been with the club longer than 4 years, most started at U11 or 12.
5:09 take a breath, read above post. Nobody said threatened, See the big brag board above then explain that scholarships are not used to promote the club and help an ignoramus like me figure it out.
5:02....Can you share with us some of the schools the girls will be attending?? Both 08 & 09s??
For the rest, no one knows for sure how much scholarship $ these players are getting, some might be walkon's, some might be 100%. Keep that in mind.
Here is a partial list of schools, all of these players are on scholarship, none are walk-ons. The Ivy League students do not get scholarships but the still sign a letter of intent.
Minnesota (6)
Northwestern (2)
Wisconsin
NDSU (7)
UND (3)
SDSU
USD
UWGB (2)
Illinois State
Valpraiso
Columbia
Yale
Ohio U (2)
Creighton (2)
what do some of the college acronyms stand for (for us collegiately impaired)?
North Dakota State Univ
Univ of North Dakota
Univ of South Dakota
South Dakota State Univ
Univ Wisconsin Green Bay
Congrates to the players and their families!!
Does anyone know what the score was between Bangu and EP girls U-15s? I heard they played the other day.
Now back to our regularly scheduled State Cup programming...
Will the fields be ready? If so how will they hold up?
State Cup winners
U13 Bangu
U14 Bangu
U15 Bangu
U16 Woodbury
U17 Bangu
U18 Not sure either Bangu or SSM too bad they play in semi final round
U19 SCV
anon 5:16,
You must be one of those soccer daddies who understand little about soccer and other sports.
You mention player development as if it stops at age 13 or some other specific age.
Player development is never ending.
Don't you think U16 players continue to improve at that age through age 18 or 19 when they play for a coach like Danny Storlien or Tony Peznecker?
Don't you think these young women continue to develop when they go on and play for a strong coach in college?
Maybe you'll grasp this:
Has Joe Mauer stopped "developing" as a player?
Has Marian Gaborik stopped "developing" as a hockey player?
When do professional QBs stop "developing"?
Do male soccer players continue to develop when they are fortunate enough to play professionally? Or are they as good as they'll ever be in their 1st professional match?
Can you see the flawed logic and assumptions you're working under?
Your limited idea of development is severely flawed but then again I'm guessing your perspective is through extremely biased glasses.
6:23 you're right for the most part but I don't know how we can predict U13 results.
Also, I think SSM will come out on top at 18.
Bangu-EP U15 Midwest league 1-1
As far as the other topics congrats to the girls. Every coach who have coached one of these girls over the years should take some pride in their succes.
My State Cup picks will be announced after the weekend =)
Swedish Smurf
Kids pick up things a lot easier in their early years. Also if they learn the basics early the coaches can spend more time on other things when they are older.
Anon 7:18,
Great post regarding player development.
Anyone who is a sports fan realizes players in all sports continue to "develop" as long as they play the game.
Some might argue that it stops when they're past their physical prime(age 32-35?)but just look at the baseball pitcher whose game adjusts for the lack of the 95 mph fastball and becomes a "pitcher" as opposed to a "thrower".
The same is true of youth soccer players.
While they may not develop at the same pace "technically" they do at younger ages they will continue to grow and "develop" tactically as U15-U19 youth players as well as during their college playing days.
Player development never stops. With the right coaching and training environment development is never ending.
7:18 I see you are one ofthe shall we call it Gooweiler or Rottgoo attack dogs sniffing out persecution. I'm not sure where you read into that post that I think development stops at some point, perhaps you will develop the ability to not read into posts that which is not there. The reference is this, 3 or 4 new players show up, are added to a team three pracices later at Stardome or Bielenberg I hear a coach say "we are the best at developing players" three practices is not development. These kids learned tons at their former teams if they hadn't why are they so heavily courted? Give the clubs and teams some credit. If Bangu is the elite club, then conduct yourselves accordingly with grace and manners which exemplify the greatness of our game.
I am confused about some of the bangu teams in state cup. why are the 14P and 15P girls playing 13 and 14 age groups? i realize they are age eligible to play there but doesn't this show some hypocrisy on their part? is it true that the u14p team is made of age eligible u13 girls who may not all have collectively earned the u14 spot last year (as u12 eligible)? what pride and spirit of competitiveness comes from dropping down your team from u14 premier to play u13 in state cup regardless of age? if they are a great team and in fact u14 premier quality, one would think they should play state cup at that level right? is the message to those players, yes you are u14 premier but we don't want you to compete at the u14 level in state (mostly c1 teams) and in fact during the summer we are also going to play u13 tournaments? seems fishy to me. if you are u14 premier I would think you would want to play at that level since it isn't all about winning but rather challenging and developing your players. 'dropping down' for the sake of winning seems contradictory to many of the posts here. i am sure i will be tweaked for being naive to the gamesmanship but i would personally never play a team 'down' and then pat myself for winning
12:06 You make some very good points but be prepared the goobers will go on full attack for your thoughtful questions.
The goobers feel they will win state cup by dropping down (which they should in most cases) and then the hope is to be competitive at regions (not so sure about that).
10:25,
WOOF! Well said.
This one is pretty straightforward guys. The MN u15 premier league best offers the competitive environment to prepare a u14 team for regionals. Ditto for preparing the u13s by playing u14 premier.
Better yet would be to play the proper age group in MRL premier league and forego MYSA altogether, but that isn't a choice for either team yet.
A better question might be why EP u15s bother with MYSA premier league at all?
By the way, I'm no goober (note how I didn't claim your daughter was cut by the goobs, nor did I mention scholarships or college scouts - all trademarks of the biggest goobers).
The U14 Premier team, which is actually all U13 age eligible players, plays U14 in the State of Minnesota so they can face a challenging level of competition. Out of State, they play U13 as there are competative teams in those tournaments. Why U13 in State Cup? Because winning State Cup is how you advance to Regionals, and even if they would win within state at the U14 level (highly unlikely), they would not be competative at that level if they did advance. Doesn't seem that complex to me. As for why not keep all the girls that earned the Premier spot last year? Some chose to leave, but also because at the U13 level, the Bangu East and South teams combine. Additionally, based on try-outs, there were some players that were selected for whatever reasons over players that had been on the team the previous year. Is that so unusual? Does that not happen in community teams? I know NSSA picked up 3 Centennial players on their U14 Premier team.
Yes, I am a bangoober, googoobler, or whatever name you want to call me, and I believe that without tryouts and changes to rosters, players would become complacent. If we wanted complacency, we would go back to our community club.
Go ahead - fire away.
1:06 and 1:09 - that makes sense, thanks. that said, if the u14 team playing u13 for example doesn't win the u13 state cup against the 'weaker' Mn competition, would you then concede the u14 premier spot to someone else (can you even do this?) obviously there are a limited number of u14 premier slots in state and one would assume if this team doesn't even earn the top spot in its u13 slot (actually dominate it) it logically shouldn't take up a u14 premier slot that a deserving team could use to help in their own regional qualification, correct? would you care to share the actual number of girls on this u14 (u13 team) that played for the u13 team last year that actually 'earned' the slot for bangu? you said, some chose to leave, some players combined, new players came from tryouts, etc. some group of girls had to win at u13 to earn the spot for the club and i am curious how many that earned that spot still play there? i am not interested in calling you guys names, just curious as to the logic and system of team and player assignments. thanks
1:09 Actually you gave a thoughful response and are correct on most points. I only take exception with the shot you took at community clubs. Yes, some are complacent, mediocre or whatever. Most are doing well and providing opportunities for all of their players who in turn have the right to participate or not. The doggong of community clubs is a Bangu trademark tough.
1:09 Actually you gave a thoughful response and are correct on most points. I only take exception with the shot you took at community clubs. Yes, some are complacent, mediocre or whatever. Most are doing well and providing opportunities for all of their players who in turn have the right to participate or not. The doggong of community clubs is a Bangu trademark tough.
Little more than half of the team stayed the same. The team lost one of their top leaders in assists and goals. Think she went to the Wings. Gained a couple of new good players, other players are okay but a bunch will probably be replaced again next year. Goalkeeper is new. No goalkeepers showed up at tryouts. Whoever wanted to tryout for goalkeeper got an automatic spot on the blue team. They will have to work hard to win State Cup and hold their own in U14 Premier.
No problem with the U13 playing U14P and U14 playing U15P or Woodbury playing u17P. The teams earned the spots and until their are 5 better teams in those P leagues the teams should stay.
No reason to think that the other teams in those leagues are made up of players that earned the spot. there will always be chanegs to teams. The more succes a team has the more likley that their will be roster changes.
If that was not the case or if people can not accept that we may as well have frozen rosters between age 13-19
I would not rule out that two U12 teams that play u13 this year may make U14 P next year.
Why they should play their true age at state cup has already been explained and I fully support it.
The one statement I do not agree with is why EP bother to play MYSA. If a team only play Midwest league and dont make it to regionals their season is over before June. Why not let the kids play as much as possible. Their is a difference if your team can't find competition in the MYSA leagues but from what I know EP is not winning every game with 4 or more goals. Also gives other teams in the state a chance to play good competition.
Swedish Smurf
Bangu people, don't give the people on here who are reaching for anything they can to slander our club any of your time. Our teams' performances and development speak volumes. Everyone hates the Yankees until they play for them.
Goo haters, c'mon, let's hear all the same reaching rhetoric again in response to this post. I won't hold my breath to hear something new.
BTW, haven't heard much new from Bangu people either. So why don't both sides shut up and give it a rest.
mnfutbol - you think you're doing MN soccer a service with a blog like this where people can post shots at will? Shut this down and let people get back to focusing on the kids rather than creating a more toxic soccer climate. This blog is nothing but a negative.
109
Thanks for the bulletin board material (really). Didn't know the 13 gu team could not find a "challenging level of competition" in MN at 13. I hope you get to chew on your foot some more next month (I heard Nike boot is delicious but I haven't tried).
Mn. futbol, yes of course shut it down, but only after I get the last word of course defending my view as always the correct one good try 3:02 like we tell kids in clubs regarding soccer, if you don't like what is here you are not our possesion and are free to go elsewhere. If you don't like a blog, go!
to anon 1:48
Atleast two girls tried out for the GK spot at the U13 Blue team. They both played 1/2 in goal and 1/2 in net for the U12 south team last summer. One went to one try out and than decided to play with REV. The other is the current GK.
Where they both true GK's at try outs no (how many are at age 13?) but they where both pretty good. I can say that the girl that plays REV has a tremendous upside consider she had never been coached in goal until this fall. I have seen the current u13 GK and she has appears to have a lot of upside as well. Should work well with bangus development proces =)
Agree with you that their will be major changes to that roster next year.
They will win state cup and they will do okay in the P league as long as they play on larger fields.
I should know my team have played all the P leagues within the last 10 months. The most improved is the Green team (not sure hom many if any of those players actually played on the green team last year). It will be a very competteive league and my guess is that Wayzatta will be the strongest team. My girls have to be on the outside looking in but hopefully we can do well this year and get a chance to play with the big dogs next year.
Swedish Smurf
4:46 your post certainly raised the level of discourse here, sheeesh.
Please, U13 and U14 and you guys are all getting fired up about this and that. Give it a rest. By the time the girls are all U18 all this will be so not important. Give us readers a break. Grow Up!!
Agree with Anon 9:32
By the time the girls are 16 and older they and their parents have it all sorted out and they play at a level that is good for them.
Swedish Smurf
Hey Smurf,
You seem to know a lot about the U13 Bangu team. If they get out of the play in game my daughter's team will play them at state cup. An earlier poster did some scouting for us, see 15/4/08 7:59 AM pasted below. Is their take on that team accurate? I've never seen them play and I'd like some insight, maybe it will help our girls.
"They do have four or five VERY talented players. There are two speedy forwards, one real tall girl and a blonde girl. They can get to balls in space and have the skills to make plays when they get there. Their center mid is one of the best players with the ball I’ve seen at this age group. She is very creative and always seems to find a way to play to a teammate, even in traffic. Their defensive mid is fast and decent with the ball. The right defender is strong and powerful and always seems to be in position.
The rest of the girls on the team are solid for the most part. I think the coach does a good job of mixing them in so they can play to their strengths. The keeper is okay, but still developing, not all that unusual at this age."
To anon 8:56
My REV team played them once last summer (what was the east team), once last fall and two times this winter. Also played them in a 7v7 tournament this winter.
Unfortunatelly (for you) I don't think I can help you that much. I don't pay much attention to the opponents when my teams play. Some people may argue that I should but I rather focus on what my girls are doing/trying to do.
I would agree that they have one very good forward, she used to play mid on the east team. I guess you can say that she is the only one that stands out IMO in what is a very solid team.
I know that they have been missing their sweeper/center defender all winter due to injury not sure if she is back yet.
They play the ball on the ground each time we have played them I get the feeling that they are getting better/more comfortable with eachother and how the coach want them to play. they are well coached and well organized.
As my previous post stated I think the GK is a talent that need's to develop and she appears to develop and be more comfortable each time we play them.
If you want to talk more details you can contact me through the REV web page I coach the U14 c1 team and I will give you my number.
Swedish Smurf
Thanks Smurf
LOL. Youngers parents are very creative in finding ways to reference their daughters.
1142 - you are so right
Hilarious!!!
You are correct, Why don't people just come out and say "my daughter is number #? and she is the best ever" Which of course she is!!
1142 - Who is Youngers? Smurf doesn't have any daughters on that team.
Youngers refers to younger players. Smurfs reply was to the "parent from another team".
Smurf does not have any kids (atleast that he knows of), tried to help with what I thought and still think was a serious question
Swedish Smurf
That is what 1:41 said as I take it. It was the poster you responded to being referred to.
From what I have heard JFG is cancelled this weekend, not suprised can only imagine what the fields look like after last weekend.
Swedish Smurf
American players, Hackworth says, tend to develop bad habits playing for club teams that often emphasize winning over developing skills and games - even against weak opponents - over practice
Enuf Said!!
Smurf thank for helping with a legit question. I can't believe the cynisism of some people sometimes.
JFG cancelled, I wish they would have thought about that last week when the conditions were pretty horrible.
Is it common for people to solicit "scouting reports" via the blogosphere?
Any scores in from Rockford or Cincy?
Are they going to play in Rockford? I heard there was concern about the weather there too.
According to MRL website the games are on.
If they cancelled JFG how are we going to know who will win state cup? OMG no JFG!
Just For Girls Postponed
Just For Girls Tournament has been cancelled for this weekend. We will be rescheduling the tournament for June 7th & 8th.
per www.menacesoccer.com
Rockford games are on and the fields are dry and in great shape.
U18G 1st Div.
Bangu White 1
DSA Premier 1
Apparently DSA isn't very good.
Posted by socmom:
U17s @ Blue Chip
LOSS: Wings vs Ohio Elite (0-5)
WIN: Stars vs Javanon (5-0)
LOSS: Stars vs Ohio Elite (0-3)
LOSS: Wings vs Carmel Fire (0-1)
U16s @ Blue Chip
WIN Inferno vs Cleveland (1-0)
WIN Inferno vs St Louis (2-0)
Any results from today?
anon 10:34
Your negative comment has no place here, grow up!
Now that JFG did not happen, will someone give the final word on who will win 13 girls State Cup?
I've seen DSA (I'm not 10:34) they are an average team at best.
I've seen DSA (I'm not 10:34) they are an average team at best.
After looking at the MRL standings from this past w/end, DSA was beat by Shattuck 9-0.
Heard that the Midwest Soccer tournament at Lucy Bell cancelled games on Sunday because of "standing water on fields and bad weather". Fields were as good as they could be this time of year.
234, The People in charge of the Lucy Bell fields closed down several fields due to them being torn up after Saturday's games.
Can someone post when and where the u13 girls state cup play in game (BNG vs DKT) is occurring? Thank you
U-13 play in game is Fri 4-25 at 6:00, Coon Rapids fields. Does Rev have even a 5% chance to win this game ? A true U-12 team against the best U-13 team in MN.
U12 teams have won state cup at U13. Anything can happen.
528, Has Bangu 13 beaten or even played every team in the State Cup at their age group. Yes they probably are the favorite, but are no way a sure lock to win this age group. It's not like last years U13's where one team was so heavily favored. This years U13's are no where near the caliber of that team and Dakota Rev has probably at 10% chance. Other teams will have a better chance than them and in one game anything can happen.
All Games were played for MRL games this weekend.
7:09 Good question, has this Bangu team played ant of the State Cup teams ? Have any of the three U-12 teams played any of the state cup teams?( I would guess the Bangu teams have scrimmaged each other) Scrimmages,winter tournaments or last year? I have heard the Bangu team is a strong group of kids, but locally I am not sure who they have played and with JFG getting rained out several State Cup teams at this age are going in minimally tested.
12:24,
"Negative" is a very subjective term. The fact is that your daughter's bangu team managed a draw with a team that gave up 9 goals to Shattuck. Therefore, DSA is not very good, and "white" is still synonamous with "cash cow." If you don't want an opinion on the limited capabilities of that team, don't post a draw against another low-caliber team. They didn't even get out of their group at JFG, which was not a strong field. Your opinion is welcome, of course, though it's wrong.
The current u13 beat Tonka last year 11v11 in Usa Cup was 1-0 but the GK kept Tonka in the game.
Bangu U13 beat PSA this winter in St Cloud one zip did not see game but heard play was pretty much in one half.
My 14 girls have played Bangu u13 three times this fall and winter. Have also played PSA U13 and Tonka U13.
Boths PSA and Tonka are well coached and well organized but does not have the same offensive players that Bangu does. I guess PK's are always a possibility but except for that hard to see Bangu losing this one.
As far as REV U12 I know them very well great group of kids with a talent that are well coached, However I can not see how they will beat bangu. I be very proud of the girls if they can keep it close.
Swedish Smurf
To answere 7:19 Rev tied Blackhawks U13 0-0 beat Kelix twice 3-0 and 3-1 I think lost to Wayzatta this weekend.
They lost in overtime at the harvest fest to Burnsville this fall.
Swedish Smurf
Without sounding conceited, Bangu 13's will not be challenged by Dakota Rev who was 1-4 in a weak south district last fall. Good for all you wishful thinkers to speculate though.
8:25
My reason for posting was simply to let those interested know that the fields were in good shape and posted the only score I was aware of at the time.
Why not contribute something positive to this blog? If the Bangu white teams are cash cows then why not lump them in with all the other 2nd teams from every cc in MN and make a negative comment. "Your opinion is welcome, of course, though it's wrong." There are some things I will miss on this blog and some things that I won't. Thanks MN futbol for hosting this site and goog luck!
907, Obviously you have a daughter on the team. You state "Without sounding conceited, Bangu 13's will not be challenged by Dakota Rev" then you make the conceited comment "Good for all you wishful thinkers to speculate though." You may be right about not being challenged against the U12's but what's the purpose of making this statement. The 13's are the weakest age group Bangu has from U9 - U19. Has this team found success out of state or won many in State tournaments. It would make more sense being conceited if you were winning a lot of stuff. Your comments are just plain stupid!!
Anon 907, It's comments like the one's you made that gives people the perception that Bangu parents are conceited. Let the teams performance speak for itself. If they win great, if another team wins congratulations to them. Show some humility and class. A lot of the posts this year have revolved around the U13 age group. It's much better for someone to Pat you on you on the back than to pat yourself!!
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