I visit this blog and other blogs often enough to understand that in an "anonymous" state, people will say the most outrageous things and behave like brats. Like so many other people, I take away what interests me, post occasionally, and discard the rest as garbage. Some of the posts from the last couple of weeks have been a joke. However, I find it even a bigger joke that this or any blog is shut down for a week...
...and I guess forever is fine if it's going to be shut down because people are "bickering". I'm sure many people know that it takes 3.5 minutes to set up a blog... It takes lots more work to make a true blog work - this is more of a chat room than a blog and I understand and accept that.
I think this blog site lost any credibility it had by closing for a week.If it gets its share of silly posts so what,its a blog board,no more no less.The mod. should loosen up a bit. I do feel players names should not be used though,especially in a negative way,thats cheap and in poor taste.As for Coaches,fair game,DOC's and such,slaughterhouse for them!Point being,leave kids alone,adults should be able to take a knock or two so long as its soccer related only.
When a blog is owned and operated by an individual who is anomymous (even though his/her identity is well known), it doesn't really matter what a good reason is to shut it down. It just gets shut down. If I operated a blog, I would not shut it down completely, but I would close down topics that are going nowhere and open new ones. Maybe that is too much work...
It's all because of the damned igloo people. They just cause trouble...especially the ringleader. I think I heard one of the igloo people call him by a name which started with a "J"?
As an example (the igloo people post)... This thread had some potential. Several people posted somewhat well thought out posts and then it is interrupted by a low IQ poster. Cute? Funny? Stupid!
These are the kind of posts that get people bickering.
I don't know how a blog can lose credibility by shutting down when it is being abused. I applaud the blogger's decision to establish boundaries of acceptable conduct, as well as to show that it is not a forum to be taken for granted. I hope the silly actions of a few don't ruin what could be an enjoyable and helpful basis for discussion about youth soccer.
The Thunder never had a youth development program aside from their camps. New ownership, new ideas, new vision. Why would they not want to merge with arguably the state's elite club to kick start their own program? Seems logical.
I don't think the merger is as much a 'merger' as morphing elite soccer into something more useful for the Thunder, while eliminating the myriad of administrative problems that Bangu has . . . mainly fields. The biggest joke is that Bangu wants their players to receive special treatment = they receive automatic berths onto the academy teams. What's the matter Bangu??? Afraid of a competitive tryout with the host clubs?
Not that I don't think they'll get their special treatment anyway, esp. if Abboud and Cook are running the show.
Bangu want's their players to receive special treatment? lol I don't think so. Bangu is about top level development though they don't have the top level players at all age groups. Why would they guarantee their players special treatment when they don't even do that within their own club year to year. Your comments are based on complete ignorance.
Like em or not, Abboud, Cook, Singer, etc have build the state's premier girls development program for higher level players. The Thunder are smart to approach them to provide a core group of talent; both players and coaches.
As for payroll, we are not in a utopian society where people can freely donate their time without worry of mortgages, bills, etc. Many will pay for the structure and opportunity the Thunder are seemingly about to begin offering, as they should, for in the best interest of the players it will take full time people to pull this off.
The girls side doesn't need much help as Bangu is already feeding the Lightning program. IMO, the Thunder are in a position to really solidify the boys side of the equation, develop future Minnesota talent for their first team, while raising the level of the game in our state. About time and more power to them as they should have stepped up to lead the elite development a long time ago. If you disagree, who else should do this? MYSA? Faribault Shattuck? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.
Now if the Thunder can only put on a winning product on the field...
I'm a huge Abboud fan (and a Thunder supporter) but Abboud doesn't make decisions for Bangu. I'm sure his input is given weight, but if Bangu has decided to merge with the Thunder its because the Bangu board feels it is in the best interest of their overall vision of elite player development. Simple as that.
Merging with the state's pro organization, an organization with new owners who with $$ and a vision to completely redefine the Thunder in this market is a great move. Can't wait to see what comes of this.
I have to laugh at Anon 1:56 comments... Send your best players to Bangu's tryouts, if they're good enough they'll make the team. I remember a few years ago when the kid of the Bangu treasurer's kid was cut from the team! That club will pick their teams based on ability and will gladly welcome the top players from any club to the tryouts.
I know my club is also talking with the Thunder and is likely following Bangu's movement towards consolidation under the new Thunder youth system. I believe MA is also talking with EP, Dakota Rev, Blackhawks, and, believe it or not, Woodbury.
Regardless of my club's final decision I will be a very interested observer in this unique initiative as many playes (both cc players and elite players) should reap the benefits.
Don't laugh so quickly Anon 6:31. . . We did send some of our best players to Bangu's tryouts. They were good enough (some Blue, some White) and opted to NOT become part of Bangu. I just think it's laughable that anyone would expect special treatment at a new entity.
There are definite merits to the outline of what's been proposed, but the devil's in the details.
What is your point Anon 4:22, you had kids go to tryouts and choose not to play for Bangu? That happens all the time, not only at Bangu but also all clubs, players need to find what is the best fit for them, Bangu is not for everyone and I believe the club makes that perfectly clear when they meet with the parents at tryouts.
There will be no merge of youth clubs and the Thunder. There could certainly be an association, but absolutely no change of a club rolling all of its teams into the Thunder. Even with the change of ownership at the Thunder, the frachise is still about making money, not developing players...unless they can sell them.
This is absolutely hilarious. Who is in here defending the the Thungu merger? The comment that it makes sense for the Thunder to get in bed with bangu because they have the top teams is so short-sighted as to require a serious prescription. Even MA should be able to see that this is the equivalent of sending the fox to talk with the remainder of the chickens about turning over their offspring to improve relations with the fox community. The Thunder and their new owners should have sat down with the presidents and doc's of the top ten clubs in the area (possibly minus gu to make the proper impression) and explained that they want to build a new club with the cooperation of the local clubs. This would have given the initiative a chance. Instead you send Mark to represent credibility for improving relations with other local clubs? It's laughable. The Thunder don't need bangu. Quite simply they need the kids that bangu recruits away from the other clubs in the area. Instead of torching relations with those clubs even further, use a little imagination. The Thunder have created a zero-sum game in which clubs have to choose between supporting Thungu or not supporting the Thunder. Woodbury, St Croix, Blackhawks, EP, Wings, PSA, and the others would be stupid to "host" these teams. The proposal would apparently be that Thungu would build 12 teams in each age group across 6 districts. These teams would not play in MN. What will be left? The clubs would provide facilities and their top coaches and their players would register with Thungu, not their clubs. It's also a plan without any serious financial underpinnings and word is that the fees would be extremely high for the players (lots of people to pay off). Here's the RX: Drop gu and MA - appeal to the clubs directly. Form one team in each age group in each gender, 12-19. This will not be a threat to the clubs and will still leave plenty of talent to maintain decent leagues in MN. Future programs can include academies for 5-8 and 9-12, which will allow the Thunder to expand their financial base. As it is, this initiative is a bad joke and it just looks like an effort to slap a Thunder nametag on bangu programs. Do you want to win in the short term or develop widespread community support for your team and programs? bangu is one for two and the Thunder are 0-2 and threatening to undermine what minimal support they still have in the community. Fix it or flunk.
That last post is idiotic. Your jealousy/hate of Bangu makes you believe they should not even be a part of an elite system? Where have you been? Who else has been able to do what they've done to help MN kids play at the top competitive levels? They're not Eclipse or Hawks but they are trying to do what is best for a very small demographic. Don't care for their tactics, don't care for their coaches, that's fine. But to disregard their efforts shows complete lack of the big picture and of higher level development.
The Thunder is smart to include Bangu, Bangu is smart to realize that the vision they have of elite player development can best be realized under the Thunder.
It's a sound plan to also approach key community clubs. The previous poster sounds like he/she is a member of club 8 or 9. The Thunder works in partnership with their clubs helping them raise the overall level of play in their area while the clubs help the Thunder by providing fields and players - increasing the talent pool and the chances of identifying the higher level players early - and then moving them at U14, U15, or whatever age, to the Thunder Academy where I would assume there will be coaches like Ian and Buzz to help these players reach the next level. This will be great for our state and for the top level kids.
There will likely be CC backlash from those not involved but if they choose to spurn the Thunder and not promote the local pro team, that in itself will speak volumes to their true interest in MN soccer development and the development of kids in their communities. Seems the Thunder are prepared for this financially now. If they're not they better be.
It's about time our pro club put their foot down and wasn't swayed by comments like those from the previous poster. Make no apologies for looking to develop elite players. Do it in cooperation with key communities not in conflict like Bangu has done. Develop MN players for future Thunder and Lightning teams. Build your brand and unite the state's fractured elite youth system (especially the boys).
For people who see it as Thungu and can't get past that, leave them behind in their archaic thinking worlds. Fix it or flunk? More like get on the bus or get under it.
Versions of your plan has already been tried by several previous Thunder regimes. All it would do is add another layer of cost and adminstration. The local clubs would still have all the work to do.
The clubs you mentioned don't want to loose control. They also don't want to see the Thunder making money off all of their hard volunteer work (remember this is MN, we hate big business...except the one giving us our paycheck!)
Because there is no wide spread youth development amoung the upper 2 tiers of professional teams, and no concept of signing, buying and selling players, it will be difficult for the Thunder to build something that does not require significanlty more expensive fees for players/families.
The Thunders desire to have an instant youth system would only come from cooperation from a club like Bangu. I don't see this happending because Bangu is really an association of team. Each team takes input from the DOCs but they basically build their own rosters, play their own schedule and don't get to caught up in club politics.
Who knows, the Thunder may pull something off with a few of the clubs mentioned, but the deck would be stacked against them unless they can wrap up all the major clubs. Then top players options would include the Thunder and Bangu.
The Thunder should be more focused on putting a quality product on the field. They were painful to watch last year.
They DO need a quality product on the field! I've heard that the new owners have made this one of their priorities which we all should be excited about.
I've also heard that their owners want to completely separate the youth Academy from the pro team/camps in terms of cash flow. I don't see the owners dumping a ton of $ into the youth program, but on the flip side I don't see them needing the youth program to fund the organization. Have you seen what one of the owners has planned for St Paul development? We're not talking chump change anymore. He's a first class guy from what I've seen and will elevate the Thunder to unprecedented levels.
oooooh, you caught me! because I am secretly from Wisconsin and spend all my time trolling MN blogs to make sure nobody ever finds out what is happening in Wisconsin. I especially don't want you to find out about MORE anonymous bashing of people through stupid internet emails and web site - because we have enough of it going on in this state on here. posting that in multiple threads, the two threads that are still active in here that pertain the men's soccer, obviously whoever that is REALLY wants people to look at it... for some reason.
Wow, take a chill pill 6:21. I think you are giving me and Anon 7:25 way too much credit. With all the threads on this blog I and others have posted the same thing twice and in two differnt threads. The Mic site looks like a new blog trying to get something start on college soccer in eastern WI.
If you really read this blog regularly, then you will recall we have some bashing here as well...MIAC coaches, MYSA, clubs, club coaches, ODP coaches, HS coaches...we also have the occasional emails posted from coaches about tryouts, or HS playing time, etc.
I think most of us Mn'er would love to have a D1 men's coaching staff to bash. Of course we also have the parent bashing here as well...which the Mic blog has some of as does the brewcity one.
I'm guess you are either a player or coach at UWM, support the current staff and have fairly thin skin. Take the opportunity to express your opinion with either your real name or even anonymous (most MN'er are too chicken, myself included, to use their real names outside of standup people like Tomass and couple of parents.)
I'm sure many people out there would love to hear your thoughts. These are afterall blogs/chat boards, serving the purpose of exchaning ideas and opinions.
The Shattuck camps are great, but I don't know if they have a summer residential program. Their Youth Academy program is top notch, though. My son participated in their winter program and really improved his game.
Everybody recruits players, they may develop some players but the bottom line is look at the Premier level teams at U17 and count how many players on the roster have been there for more than 2 years....... very few high level teams are developed and great credit goes to the clubs that are able to develop players and not just create teams from picking the bones from the carcasses of smaller clubs.
BanguMom....Not sure what age group your dd plays, but Bangu 18s I think White, will be down at Shattuck this weekend. Shattuck plays Bangu on Sunday. Be nice to met you if your plannin on coming down??
LOL - They'll all look like anons to her. Bangumom, good hearing from you and make sure you introduce yourself to everyone you meet if you go down. Bring a watch so you can tell one anon from another. ;-)
between the market and the cam-pains (yes i meant to do that), i thought i'd take a break for some good news....none here i see...except some of the old regulars are still tilting at windmills!
maybe yo-bomma should 'flop like an argentinian' when billary takes a swipe at him...
anon 801 - how so?? Get over your political correctness syndrome.
921 - before you yell wolf, make sure you have identified a wolf. Pretty funny though how you say keep it clean and then use an acronym with the opposite connotation.
mn futbol - contact me, I'm working on a solution and want to run some thoughts by you.
I think in about 5 years there will be a fracture in MN soccer. Namely the U14 - u19 elite teams will decide to play fall soccer. Players will have to decide between elite teams and high school.
Forces for are more exposure to non-Minnesotan college coaches. The prestige of a letter jacket isn't as great as playing on a nationally ranked team.
Forces against are the coaches (and I know there a lot of them) that coach both high school and club.
Extra credit points for agreeing or disagreeing without using the word Bangu : )
its not going to happen. "Talk" of this started years ago in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Kentucky. I say talk, because the predictions never came true. Occasionally a club would put together A SINGLE fall team with a mix of ages, but by and large there was no mass exodus from HS Soccer, even though the elitists said it would happen.
There's too much draw to HS and too much value to it. No, its not the best for techincal development, but you learn other lessons through it that you don't in a club environment - not to mention playing with your friends, representing your school, etc etc.
I've heard this before in other states, it never happens.
agreed - you've left off the biggest "force against" that there is... MOST kids LIKE high school. Its the "fun" part of their soccer career. While they know they usually get the best training and competition in club, and they also know that club is their ticket to college, those things come with stress and intensity that can make it feel more like a job. During HS they get to play under the lights, in front of crowds, for their school, with and in front of their friends - its FUN. I know a lot of kids who love HS because it recharges their love of the game. Get rid of high school and you'll loose half those "elite" players to burn out.
the 'baby blues' tried to bully one of their younger teams' goalie this past fall into dropping from her high school team. glad to say it didn't work, but i predict that club's mindset will not go away soon.
ems, you are so full of crap, there was no bullying involved, the player wanted to know her best options, play JV or train with her club team. She chose HS soccer and the club said fine, she was one of many from that team to play HS this fall. Stop fabricating the truth to justify your dislike for the "baby blues".
Is the the U14 GK from Edina? SW hates Bangu so much that he recommended to her to leave the Bangu team for EP's Premier team at the same age. Hmm... a middle of the road Premier team vs a regional/national contender. Tough one, and impossible not to see Simon's true intentions.
ems, what's better? Playing JV as a 9th grader or training with a team of caliber?
It sounds like bangu is treating their players like possessions!?! Who are they to discourage kids from playing hs? Anybody else get the feeling that MA writes on here under multiple pseudonyms just to attack people who disagree with him? The above discussion is a good example. Whatever he and his cronies say here, they do pressure kids to play with them in the fall (i.e. by making them pay fees for keeping a roster spot on a team they don't play with in the fall). Any other clubs doing that (uh, no.)? Criticizing SW for disliking bangu is stupid. He's among the best handful of high school coaches and he works very hard for every player he coaches. Hating bangu, if he does, should get him an award, not your shallow criticism. You should aim lower if you want to critique other coaches.
the wisconsin girls playing on the woodbury team you speak of were not granted a waiver by wisconsin to play both club and hs at the same time unlike some bangu players in the past..in addition, their high school coach refused their request to do both...so yeah, they had a choice b/t hs and mn club and chose the latter...this was not a decision their coach @woodbury forced them to make, but rather one that wi and their hs forced upon them
anon 1252-will anyone know the real truth? she's not my kid and i wasn't standing there for the conversation with her coach/doc/or whoever. i know what i know.
the baby blues have always been the leader in pushing the envelope (rules) and they spawn similar behavior from other clubs to 'keep up'.
they seem to have stopped 'age group raiding' and now want to take over the complete soccer world as we've known it her in mn. damn hs, full speed ahead!
congrats, you have almost achieved 800lb gorilla status.
I have a child that lives in Wisconsin. A choice usually has to be made at the higher levels of soccer between HS and club. Every once in a while you will have a situation where going to practices/skills sesssions, might work out between HS and club, or a club team will allow the player to play HS w/o attending club games or practices,but usually the player has to make a choice. Players from Wisconsin realize that the club team is usually just starting to practices in full swing to get ready for the summer season or State Cup. So a hard decision has to be made between club or HS. It is part of life living in Wisconsin and being part of MYSA. It is a bummer making the choice what team to play with HS vs. club but we have to deal with it. It is not some "evil" coach deciding or "evil" AD at the HS ,both the club coach and AD have the whole team to think of, it is the player and their family that has to make this hard decision.
I think ems summed it up well. The gorilla has been there for some time, but it looks like the other people in the room are getting tired of it's presence and are becoming willing to identify it for what it is.
Oh and for the people who said you Bangu will take any talent, think again. They won't take Shattuck Players anymore and didn't take three ODP players this year, although they were extremely talented.
Wow... So many of you are obsessed with Bangu. If I spent that much time worrying about Bangu I wouldn't have time for my own kid's club. Direct your energies into something more positive...you'll feel better about life. By the way, we are community clubs. Why take that as a negative?
10:29, I don't think I pressured anyone to forego HS soccer. I gave my opinion to families as to which may be more beneficial for development in my eyes and then fully supported any decisions made.
As for advice from outsiders given to my players encouraging them to seek different teams, I don't know enough about that to comment.
In hindsight, it was probably a very good decision for certain families to participate in HS. Most of the girls who did had a great time.
As for forcing families to pay fees, you have no idea what you're talking about. We have yearly budget numbers spread out into monthly payments. That's why families pay $$ in the fall regardless of where they play.
And regarding Simon, I don't really give a rip if he hates Bangu. I have a lot of respect for what he's done, injecting many qualified coaches into the Minnesota soccer market over the past number of years. Heck, I even approached him to have Coerver head the training of our Academy programs a few years back. He had other priorities and didn't want association with us to negatively affect those priorities, so nothing came about. So be it. We agree to disagree about higher level players' development. Fine. We're all entitled to opinions. Just try not to base yours in ignorance.
Interesting tirade. I'm not sure what's worse, the endless accusations against bangu or the bitter, even sad, tantrums like the one above thrown back the other direction. Neither side improves their cause this way. Remember when this was a BOYS blog?
anon 11:44 Players are not property and they should be made aware of all the opportunities available to them. If a player from my club had the opportunity to join a Bangu team (or any other MWL team) that would further her development I'd encourage her and her family to explore the opportunity. Coaches who want to hold back their top players when a better development opportunity is available are selfish and I question their motives. For the young girls that is their best shot of earning a college scholarship. It isn't quite that easy for the boys yet. Let's work for the advancement of the kids/players. Isn't that why we're all involved in youth soccer?
Ok the first two blogs on this thread get the extra points. But... anyway a new question: If you are coaching at the higher levels (u15 and older, C1 and premeir) and you have a couple of extremely fast players with foot skills (a great first touch and shot). Do you plan your strategy around them and play for the long through ball? Offensive bootball versus the beautiful game.
Would that be encouraging bangu players to leave bangu for bangu? You gotta at least change your words a little bit so everyone at leasts suspects there is someone else writing this stuff. I think the point of 11:44 (seems obvious) is that the bangu people, and anonraptormark in particular, don't respect club affiliations in their recruiting efforts. I think the point is fairly obvious and doesn't even require a bangu response. That's just the way it is.
marktiple personalities... That is exactly the point! When these guys show up at an event, or they create their own "free training event" (read recruiting event at Andover High School) and they hand the kid a card that says something like: You can be a premier player...
Do they ask the player or his/her parents if they have signed a registration form and paid something to a club? My guess is they don't. The kid gives the card to mom/dad and they melt. OMG - My kid can be a premier player!! Quick - call grandma!!!
You guys bashing MA are unbelievable. I see his post above as most of his others - providing clarity when there are issues that he knows about. I hope he continues to defend what he is passionate about.
Moreover and with all due respect to MA, you guys make it sound like he is the only one with this vision when in fact there are many others in Bangu, the Thunder, and in the CCs who also share the idea of helping top MN kids get to the next level.
Bangu has become the anti-Christ of Minnesota soccer because people like you guys with kids who have been cut/have not been offered spots with them/have had teams beat by them/are in clubs who cannot compete with their top teams/or just plain don't believe in their development plan. It's all so transparent.
The Thunder feel they can help take top MN players to a higher level, in cooperation with a number of clubs, Bangu included. God bless em as they now are in a financial position to do so (so it seems). If people like you choose to boycott Thunder games or discourage your club members from supporting the pro team and watching the area's top level of soccer, what are you saying to your members? "We're going to sacrifice the development that comes by watching pro soccer because we don't like what the Thunder is doing in the youth market. " Give me a break. I feel sorry for people like you. More sorry for the kids you're making "good" soccer decisions for.
I for one hope the Thunder are now financially secure enough to put their foot down, take the reigns of elite level development, and leave all of you behind as they look to carry MN soccer forward.
Your 4:16 is amusing and in some ways well taken. Recruiting does occur and has been a feature of life in various sports and communities for a long time. However, I think a lot of the negative feedback about the bangu/thunder merger is a result of people wanting to support the Thunder and disappointed that they would lean on bangu. The club and MA in particular are not unifying forces, which is exactly what is needed here to build both a widely supported elite club and a large fan base for the Thunder. Whatever his merits as a coach (he's very good), you can read his angry posts on this site and look at the negative reaction to his approach to area clubs about the merger and know that he is not the right front man. Sorry MA.
Amazing... You people on this blogs really need to get a life. The animosity you direct at Bangu and SSM who are the 2 programs in the state elevating the level of soccer here is stunning. Is it jealousy that has caused you to feel this way? Did your kid not get a recruiting phone call from SSM or a card from Abboud? All your whining is doing is making you look like fools. Focus on what you can do to help your kid and your kids club get better and quit wasting time and energy on SSM and Bangu which are 2 things you have zero control over. And to cast a shadow on the Thunder because they now want to work with several of the top clubs in the state clearly illustrates how small minded and petty you truly are. GROW UP!
8:31, it's bad form to go on and compliment your own post (6:29). Is there something new there? No. It's MA or his minions again. 10:10's point is right on in that so many people dislike the bangu leaders that they can't help the Thunder, who clearly need a broader base.
jeez - there are some folks on this blog who somehow, someway, somewhere felt that Bangu done them wrong. If a soccer club! (or perceived injustice to their child) can arouse such deep-rooted hatred in people, it's not hard to see why there are religious suicide bombers over in the middle east.
I'll try to give some "inside" perspective as I was in attendance when the Thunder presented to my club. I prefer to remain anonymous and I hope people can appreciate that.
I'm choosing to spend my lunch hour providing some insight as there are many inaccurate rumors running rampant on this blog and I'd hate to see something that I feel is good for MN soccer tainted or blunted in anyway prior to even getting off the ground. My comments come directly from my notes and the handouts provided by the Thunder.
I will also say I don't make the final decision for my club but prospects look good that we'll get involved. And no, I'm not with Dakota Rev.
The Thunder are looking for a way to i. help grow the game of soccer in MN ii. identify talent at early age groups iii. spearhead the development of the elite level players beginning at the u13 age group
They have approached Bangu as the state's current premier club for the higher level players but know that the youth model will take a huge leap forward should they be able to partner with other clubs. They see Bangu for what the club has done, but also see the limitations brought about by the manner that Bangu has functioned historically.
Their pitch to us was about partnering to find ways to benefit all our club's players by connecting them with the Thunder, while also looking to partner to identify and encourage the movement of our top small percentage of talented athletes to their elite Academy at u13 - a program that is sure to not only surround these players with others of similar abilities but also attract in some of MN's best coaches.
The Thunder came to us offering the use of their players as role models in our community, have ties to sponsors who can help us with field development, and want to work with us to find ways to benefit our entire club - not only the elite players at the older age levels.
According to the Thunder they have the financial resources to NOT have the younger Academy kids fund the Thunder team/organization. The Thunder and their camps will still be for profit entities, the Academy will be a 501c3.
To me it's a great vision. Can it be pulled off? That is yet to be determined. Do I think our club will support it? I think we'd be foolish not to want to get involved - for the sake of all our players. If we don't get involved the Thunder seem ready to go it alone (with Bangu). More power to them as I think this demonstrates a clear decision to move forward.
As for the questions about $$, the Thunder are looking to eventually reduce costs for the players involved through the leveraging of their corporate sponsors and eventual owned stadium and training grounds in St Paul. Take out the cost of indoor winter training space and that's a huge savings for the kids' families right there.
As I said I believe their plan and approach is sound. I think they absolutely have the right people leading the initiative - passionate, intelligent, creative, and compromising. Not to mention their combined knowledge of the game and youth soccer development.
Hope this sheds some light on what could be a very good thing for MN as a whole. I could see an eventual partnership with Shattuck, though in the meantime the Thunder venture will for sure help Shattuck get a US Dev Academy team (two from our area to help with opposing teams' travel costs). The Thunder seem a virtual lock for one with the people they have involved and in conjunction with the USL pro team.
Choose to take my words as truth is up to you. I've been there but obviously see things through my own set of filters. Hopefully this post will serve to get any future discussions on the right track, rather than letting wild rumors flourish.
A question to Tomass. Do you feel your club was slighted because they were not approached? True curiosity on my part. Answer if you feel comfortable.
Last thought to mnfutbol - maybe a new thread about this? It's getting confusing searching through 3 different topics for thoughts about the idea.
anon 118 - I'm no longer involved with the administrative functions of CC United. I am assisting with the Referee mentoring program, and serving as a master age group trainer for the U11-U12 boys and girls. I'm also team manager for my son's Tonka team and coaching a team over at EP.
I never heard about this proposal until I saw it on the board. So it did not filter down from any of those three clubs to us worker bees.
I don't think our club leaders would feel slighted if they were not approached, but I do know a couple of them had always suggested a Thunder version of an elite academy would be better for helping focus top talent into top teams. Biggest concern was the former owners did not have the capital resources to start something like this. I think if CC United was approached they would be open to discussing options, however they have a very quality DOC and the key question would have to be "what additional training value is being added that the club isn't already doing.
The Thunder will get much more of an audience to listen than Bangu every will.
Their public approach is correct and they do not have a history of distrust that Bangu does with some clubs.
I would have loved to sit in just to hear all the details of the Thunder program.
anon 1:18, Great post and I'll vouch for it's accuracy as it is the same pitch our club heard from the Thunder. I however heard it secondhand but it almost word for word what was related to me. This is going to happen like it or not seems to be the message and any club passing on this opportunity to partner with this new ownership and management group from the Thunder is missing the boat. If a club in one corner of the metro passes up this chance another club in near proximity will be offered this golden opportunity. This new ownership group is well heeled financially and this will ultimately lower the cost of playing elite level soccer here in Minnesota.
I admit I was extremely skeptical about the proposal initially. Like cc guy, I too heard the Thunder proposal firsthand and do feel it will be a very good thing for MN. I don't know the direction that my club will take, but at least we're all now thinking about possibilities for the future. I am in favor of it.
I'm also going to put my two cents in about Mark. I have had plenty of dealings with him in the past years and never once has his direction wavered as to what he believes is best for the development of the higher level younger players. Bangu has taken tremendous leaps forward in recent years with his addition to the program and it seems a great fit for the Thunder to have him involved with this concept as their front man. I know our board (some of whom did not care for Mark's work previously) left the meeting quite impressed with him and the overall vision and desire on all the Thunder people's parts to make this a true partnership with our club.
To those who feel otherwise I ask this. Like Mark/respect his work or vision or not, who else would be able to pull this off? Ian probably, but who else? Alan Merrick? Simon Whitehead? Tim Carter? MYSA? I think the Thunder will be the first to tell you that they would struggle to do this without Mark and I believe MN should be somewhat proud that this concept is being led by a number of MN people who have not only been instrumental in the pro soccer scene here in MN but also who grew up playing in MYSA.
Please refrain from MA bashing as that's not what I'm looking for. Rather a discussion of other MN people who could have done something similar or who you believe the Thunder could have used. And before people bring up the idea of forming a panel or sub-committee to handle this with reps from multiple clubs, know that this is already what the Thunder have planned and are asking us (the clubs) to get involved in the shaping of this program. We still need a leader to organize and guide the discussions.
I hear there is a meeting between the Thunder and MYSA tomorrow. Anyone know if its open to all? Wonder if they'll post the minutes...
If this was such a good thing, what club do you proudly represent? Please do tell. I still keep hearing Dakota Rev was the only club likely to buy in. The way this blog works, one can't give you any credence without id. MA and the Thunder blundered here. MYSA was not happy about this proposal. The presentation to the clubs made it sound like Ian was on board and then like other clubs were buying into this. It's classic Mark marketing ("your whole team is coming to bangu, so you better sign up, too!"), but by most accounts it's a pack of lies. The idea of building 12 teams in each age group is a pathetic misreading of the talent base in MN and has been exposed as a blatant money-making scheme. The Thunder should have known better, and they still have a window to work with other clubs, but the number will be small, and insignificant, with MA leading the way. The Thunder need a decisive majority of EP,SC, WDBRY, Wings, PSA, MPLBRK, Eagan and Lakeville to create a critical mass, and most of those clubs want nothing to do with MA and bangu. It should be one team per age group in cooperation with a majority of local clubs and spearheaded by Amos and Manny, not bangu cronies. No bangu players should be promised spots before hand either (what are they afraid of, that they missed someone?!) The fact that there is so much criticism here is indicative of the truth.
You are either choosing to not read between the lines or you don't understand what the Thunder are trying to do.
The non-profit status of the youth academy only means that they get some tax breaks and need to empty the bank account each year. They will use it to employ their players and other Thunder employees in well paying administrative and coaching jobs that will allow them to pay less payroll out of the Thunder, put more people in the seats as their players/coaches will hype the Thunder team, make a % on uniform and equipment sales, etc. They will also charge the youth academy administrative and corporate management fees.
These types of entities have been very successful in MN. Look at United Health Group. The health insurance division is non-profit, per state law. Guess where they buy all of their business services to support that business, that's right from for profit lines of business under the same umbrella. The health insurance company is basically a non-profit shell.
There is nothing illegal about this type of organization. You can decide for yourself if it is immoral. You should, at a minimum, see if for what it is. A for-profit company replacing a non-profit infrastructure and making money off of youth soccer.
Additionally, the top quality coaching argument doesn’t really apply. The Thunder players won't necessarily be better coaches that what exists today in for the top boys and girls teams. In fact, I would argue the overall coaching level would drop for top teams. The top coaches navigate to the top teams now as it is.
So the question is, do the Thunder deserve to cash in on all of the volunteer work and non-profit efforts of Bangu, Wings, Blackhawks, SCV and others? I believe they should focus on putting a quality product on the field instead.
I am amazed at how some people just can get themselves to stop trying make Bangu the axis of evil. The fact that MA is involved with the Thunder, does not mean that the "Thunder's Grand Plan" has anything to do with Bangu, except that the Thunder would love to just absorb Bangu as the starting point for their academy.
This is not about Bangu. Bangu is not evil. MA is not evil. The Bangu Cronies are not evil.
"I am amazed at how some people just can get themselves to stop trying make Bangu the axis of evil." I agree! How do people get themselves to stop seeing bangu as a problem? In all seriousness, every week brings more outrageous and annoying behavior by their leadership, and jealousy has nothing to do with the complaining on this blog. Lots of people are fed up, and to return to the issue, the Thunder have the right idea with the wrong vehicle. Do it yourself, guys.
nickelback, Do you have some examples of this "outrageous and annoying" behavior? Or just your perception? Please share specific examples if you have any. You must have many you can share...as you noted every week brings more. I won't hold my breath.
To the money issue, according to what I've heard the Thunder are looking to make this Academy free for the players involved at the older age groups leveraging their new stadium, sponsors, etc. Something like the NY Red Bulls and just announced for their youth Academy. I think the Chicago Fire also fund their youth system. Guess we'll see what happens here, but assuming this is the goal, I'm sure you guys here will search for something else to criticize while you fumble around in pure ignorance.
Yes do this or else or face our ridicule sound familiar, again over and over bangu , more of the same bangu unaccountability and lack of leadership. Is this community and civic minded thunder leading this or bangu interests, wheres the business plan , are the books closed to follow the money trail like bangus, you betcha ya , field development please who has the fields lol thunder NO , Bangu certainly not, that part of fees and exorbitant coaches salary was skimmed back to one of its cronies to help pay back his restitution. And my all time favorite, the statement of how bangu has historically operated, needs to be changed , is that an admission of guilt. The supposable new bangu sugar daddies with, out of the country and out of the state deep pockets money, let them flash it before you give up something for nothing in this beads and trinket proposal. Let them buy the stadium land and fields like the communities have invested in their own fields and facilities long term . And this bangu giving away its brand for nothing who gets the proceeds and benefits of that. The fees bangu pays for renting snelling or other fields if picked up free or reduced by community clubs not having to be paid, that going to be plowed back into skills development of the wide base of talent and kids ,NO, the bigger pie still gets split by the same hands. Here in Minnesota we call that corporate welfare. In Shakopee at Murphys landing the first Minnesota settlers built the barn first before the house and lived in till the house was built , in bangu business plan if they had one seems to have focused building the the highest and most fee producing numbers in their house brand for short term benefit of few with no regard for long term benefits of owning the land or the facilities and overall benefit to surrounding communities. If this is truly a thunder proposal , the only viable partners ,all egos aside, should be Shattuck or NSC they have the facilities fields and geographical recruiting muscle and brand to make this work go to them first . The only problem there being whose going to be the chief and who decides who gets what , who keeps the books? Thats called a outside board of directors not a dad whose daughter plays for coach in question. This should be guided by a mission statement and guidelines adhered to, not for unsupervised financial gain of a few but the benefit of the sport and the players. And finally what if this does work, do the community clubs really want to be a part of promoting some of its selected talent to not be able to play for community club teams , its high school , odp .at the state tournaments, and state cup , U.S. Academy bans participation in these. Just what are the players playing for , the U.S. academy concept ignores what made the U.S..womens team world cup champ. the beginnings were in the community clubs , kids playing for the fun of game. girls being allowed to play with their brothers, being allowed to play older kids, being allowed to be creative ,less structure with creative skills being allowed to develop. To make it work ,its a team game , adults, compromise and kick away your petty differences like the players do on the field. And most importantly are there truly 44 Minnesota u-16 and u-18 young men the U.S. Academy requires that want to give up the memories of playing with their friends at high school ,odp, state cup and state tournament and clubs including bangu for a chance of a few to play on a bigger stage. There are some that have already made that commitment and they are at shattuck,... thunder go there or nsc and take advantage of larger geographical talent pool and host money making tournaments at nsc. The main reason bangu probably wont go along with this is they dont want to be governed by more altruistic motives other than unsupervised financial gain and individual recognition that has got members into legal trouble already, dont forget the ultimate goal of soccer should be character development not winning or losing. the thunder and the state i hope will be represented by the best of motives in its teams when it completes against the likes of IMG and teams from states already merging their top clubs and be led by positive role models. If this is going to work a community consensus has to be achieved by Minnesota thunder and more structured corporate board without the improprieties of bangu and its usual suspects. Minnesota is closer to Chicago than Texas
anon 11:09, Agreed! The haters are totally obsessed. Amazing how little Billy or little Susie not making a particular team has turned some poor souls into non-stop blithering morons. As someone recently posted, get some psychiatric help and quick. Your obsession is not healthy.
A class or two in English may also be helpful. There were a lot of long sentences and no real paragraph structure. Your punctuation could also use some improvement. This is a blog, but there is no need to be sloppy.
fyi anon 11:05...US Soccer DOES NOT require that Academy players give up high school. This is why academy teams are only required to attend 3 of the 4 showcases. You don't attend the showcase that falls during your high school season...There are some Academy clubs that are not allowing high school play but not because US Soccer has mandated. Just wanted to clarify
Also, word is that Shattuck will get the invitation to US Soccer Development Academy. Perfect fit...age groups, qualified coaches, facilities etc. Thanks.
First, with a name like that, you're obviously working a candy bar machine rather than negotiating with bangu. Also, if they let the older players play for "free" who do you suppose will pay for them? Thunder ticket sales?! That's funny. Nope, that would be somebody else.
Second, 5:43: Start with 11:05 for your list of unsavory behavior (or see the very interesting comment in the state cup strand). Then read road to regionals. There are more arrogant, derisive shots at so-called community clubs there than the Thunder should need to know that this guy is not going to be well-received by the other clubs in the area. Let me know if you're having trouble finding some examples and I'll happily post a long list for you here (the disclaimer is not an answer: You put it out there and your prejudicial comments are there for everyone to see). This is your community ambassador, Amos? Nauseating. Do you really want to ask for more? The bangu (read: MA) tactic here has always been to beat down anyone who criticizes him/them. In all seriuosness, though this is a losing game for you now. You should stick to coaching on the field (no one would argue that you're quite good there). Your anger here just reinforces the negative perceptions. btw: "hater" is a peculiarly bangu term, along with "you're jealous!" and the word "ignorant" seems to be a popular insult, too. Well, the fact is that you're not doing the right thing and it is good to know that people here are now calling you on it. -
A class or two in English may also be helpful. There were a lot of long sentences and no real paragraph structure. Your punctuation could also use some improvement. This is a blog, but there is no need to be sloppy.
So the best you could do when confronted with your tendency to fall back on jealousy et al is to call someone (not sure which post) a nerd? I bet they're at home crying right now. Clearly, the intellectual prowess of goou is too much for their opponents!
How about this: No more bangu bashing as long as there is no more bangu promotion here. Admittedly, we would have no blog then, but it might be a good re-start. mnfutbol: What do you think about a chance to cleanse your blog?
nerd? - as someone who reads this to be entertained, I tend to see bashing first, followed by partisan defending/promotion. So yes, if the bashers bit their tongues (or typing) then you would not have much of a blog.
Wow, in the immortal words of Han Solo, "I'm out of it for a little while, and everyone gets delusions of grandieur!"
I guess I don't see why everyone is so upset about all of the Thunder deal. For me, it seems that having the "community clubs" work with the "axis of all evil" and the Thunder should be a positive step for the state of soccer in Minnesota. I have seen the proposals, heard the pitch and recognize that there will be gains for all. The biggest gains would be for the kids who want easier access to different training environments. Sometimes I let pride get in my way. Maybe this is what is going on around the state right now. Here's what I espoused on the former site - is your kid happy with his/her soccer experience? That's the only question that needs to be asked.
No one is without fault yet we are all casting a lot of stones.
Goo-who, goo-who stop your whining at goo's winning ways. Lace up your boots and work harder for your clubs. Instead of running down the other lads all the time.
nerd's choice of words is off, but there are two sides here and for the reality is that the bangu people do their bashing on rtr, their website, and here as well. It's an arrogance festival. That said, the bashing here is pretty bad, too. So, it takes two to tango, or devolve into idiocy in this case.
oldschoolelite - welcome back, can we get some flank play out of you? Everyone is playing back and forth down the middle of the field. We need to get some width to this discussion because I don't know if there is any chance to get any depth. ;-)
The anti Bangu sentiment on and off this blog represents the minority. That's right, I said the MINORITY of people out there. The majority of Minnesota soccer families and decision makers don't give a rat's behind about what Bangu does. Outside of Minnesota Bangu IS Minnesota competitive soccer.
The minority sure is a vocal one here and blinded by their disgust of the Bangu club, what it stands for, or for some of the people involved.
MA's vision for elite player development at the younger age groups has not once wavered since he joined Bangu. The Thunder organization has shown tremendous confidence in him, in the other Bangu decision makers, and in the clubs whom they've approached to all work towards something better.
For those who say Bangu should not be involved, please come forth with a Minnesota individual or a group of individuals who has more experience at highest levels of the game in Region II. This is part of the Thunder vision - elite player development. Who else would they go to? And before people rally to the cry of "they should have come to us (the CCs), we could have worked together to do this without Bangu!", not one person out there has attempted to coordinate such undertaking. NOW some of you want in and feel you should have been involved? Come on.
Mnfutbol, this blog should be shut down for a while. Especially when there are accusations of illegal substance use thrown around. You can be held liable for slander here. Just a word of warning.
Talk to Tomass, find a way to run something new (like Big Soccer) with sign ups so you can deflect blame when it comes. You heard it hear first.
look at the hockey blog format - that is what I would like to see mn futbol. It would serve all levels of play and it allows the posters to create their own topic discussions under different categories.
I have asked them for the template and I'm still waiting to hear back.
I can tell you that blog does not get as petty as this blog does. I thought it would be worse. I was wrong
You are wrong. The Fire do not fully fund the older players in their academy. I can't speak to the read bulls, but I highly doubt it. If you are talking about a "reservers" squad that would be something different. But a "reservers squad" is certainly not a youth academy.
I have followed this site for several months but have not contributed. This is our first year with Bangu and I would like to add some observations.
Our family have had three kids play soccer with our community club over a period of 18 years. Our only experience with aggressive recruiting came from other community clubs. Two suburban clubs, in particular, were especially obnoxious and in my daughter’s case her team lost six players in one year. It caused a lot of hard feelings. The Blackhawks and Bangu were never an issue.
My youngest child is the most gifted athlete. His coach (a college woman’s head coach and the CC director of coaching) told us that my son needed to move on. He suggested winter training that consisted of three days a week in a dome with other players who had superior talents. At no time did he mention a club that offered such a program and we were honestly unaware that such an option existed. After a couple of phone calls we discovered that Bangu and the Blackhawks, among others, had such a format.
We contacted both. Bangu returned the call immediately but we never heard back from the Blackhawks despite two calls and a couple of emails. Bangu’s simple message was, “Your son is welcome to try out.”
Well, he did, and made the blue team.
Let me repeat this. We were not “IDed” and we initiated the contact after our community coach encouraged us to seek a better opportunity.
My son is now not the fastest or the most skilled player on the team – far from it. He is with a group of young men that are very serious about soccer – seldom does anyone miss practice. He has really had to work to prove that he belongs and, as a result, has improved more in the past three months than all of last year.
The coaching has simply been outstanding. He runs a very tight ship and obviously enjoys teaching the game. It has been an eye- opener to see how kids can respond to someone that demands superior performance, while at the same time not asking them to do something that they are unable to accomplish.
If Bangu kicked my kid off the team tomorrow, we would consider this time well spent. My son is learning a lot and not all of it has to do about soccer.
BTW, I am not a MA apologist and wouldn’t know who he was if I tripped over him.
6:26, very nice post. Even-handed and honest. Much appreciated. My only regret is that my kids' club, Blackhawks, dropped the ball. Please keep contributing because articles like this are why some of us keep coming here notwithstanding the pathology underlying many of the posts.
My son also just finished his first year at Bangu. I would like to agree with anon 6:26. It has been a great experince with great kids and coaching. He played for a great CC but is getting better coaching and training with Bangu. I also have not a clue who MA is or what he does.
As much as a monster as he is made out to be on this site you think I would have seen an eight foot tall zombie looking thing eating small cleated childern when I pick up my son at the Rosemeont Dome or Holy Angles but all I see is kids playing soccer.
Of all the crazies on here (the Bangu haters, the SSM haters, the CC haters, the MA haters, etc.), my favorites are the parents who justify meddling with their kids' coaches' decisions. I also enjoy reading those who defend their stalking of try-outs and practices. Yes I am a parent, and yes I am also a coach. There is nothing like being a coach to help one understand how much parents "care." Bless the kids who can communicate and make decisions for themselves notwithstanding these people.
Wow, i was expecting something more creative, "stalking" please. Sitting and watching practice or tryouts doesnt make you a nut, or controling. When I coached it didnt bother me when parents watched but yet I had nothing to hide. Do some parents take it to far, yes. Do the same percentage of coaches take it to far, also yes. When was the last time you saw a screaming, swearing coach. I see one once a year. I also saw just one screaming parent last year (other than cheering/screaming).
I set aside some time last night to look deep within my heart and soul in order to consider the ramifications of my intention to leave this blog. After careful thought and consideration I have come to the conclusion that I cannot let down the numerous readers who value the opinion of anonymous 3:12. In light of this revelation, I will continue to post and share my valuable insights to all. Thank you and I will field no further questions on this issue.
Thunder/Bangu super club is on the rocks (do not believe the latest e-mail, which was designed to deflect another round of criticism due when the clubs meet with MYSA: Thunder/Bangu not invited!). Thunder meeting at MYSA was a debacle. Oh, and I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Thunder deal on the rocks? I don't think so. Some people actually see the writing on the wall when it comes to talented players' development.
If the Thunder and Bangu didn't look to combine/merge/acquire/whatever, Minnesota would fall further behind the curve as many other region 2 clubs are partnering for the benefit of the elite players (Mich Hawks and Wolves, Eclipse and Team Chicago, and St Louis SC, Metro, and Scott Gallagher). The only thing that will stop a truly cooperative effort as proposed by the Thunder are the narrow-minded, selfish people like many of the posters on this blog.
I hope it's not on the rocks. There are a lot of personality issues on both sides. Now's not the time to let feelings get in the way of the decision-making process. I don't think the program sells itself for every club, but it meshes well with where some clubs might want to go.
Mark, what about the rumor that the Bangu players will get special treatment during tryouts for the new Academy teams . . . true or false?
Regardless of what happens, it will be what it will be. Why put the cart before the horse? Do people really think that passionate kids will stay with a lackluster program? They will go to the training...some clubs provide, some don't. Go to the place where your kid will benefit the most. Keep in mind, you get what you pay for.
i'llbrtback - OK, I typed up a lengthy response, then decided I better wait on it until things settle a bit before posting. I have no problem in responding in detail and will in time.
Suffice it to say that players tryout each and every fall to make teams in all clubs. It wouldn't be in the best interest of the majority of the players involved, or in the best interest of any program and that program's vision, to guarantee placement prior to evaluations to any player, regardless of past year's club affiliation.
Why should Bangu/Thunder be the be all end all of Mn. players.I'm not sure that they have the coaching know how or people in place. This is really a case of domination,certain people at Bangu are not getting the total domination they desire so want to team with the Thunder to do it. Who are the Coaches going to be?To be honest,Mn. is very short of top level Coaches and if playing for the Thunder makes you a Coach then,,,,eat my hat!
Each of the Blue team coaches at Bangu have been successful at a number of different levels. I think that there are other great coaches out there and many of them have been offered opportunities to coach at Bangu, so Bangu is not totally at fault for not having some of the other top notch coaches. I trust that the Blue team coaches at Bangu can develop my daughter and teach her lessons about soccer and about life.
6:57, Domination? That's crazy talk. Bangu wants total domination? Get your facts straight. How about giving your kid the best chance to learn the game. If your CC can provide that, wonderful. There is nothing wrong with community clubs. The great coaches don't always go to Bangu. If Thungu or whatever it's called puts together the best program in our state, you will see kids and coaches get on board. They will need to earn my business as would any other club in this town.
Well, ok then, whose on board? I have heard only rejection of the concept(in spite of the constant re-writing of the proposal i.e. pre-placement of bangu players outlined above), and the clubs bangder approached met the other night to collectively gag on the proposal before MYSA officials. Rumor has it that MYSA might drop their support of the Thunder. The bangder elite were clearly horrified that they were excluded, and each new spit shine of this madness is less credible (which is saying something!). Please send us the long list of clubs you have on board (I dare you, but we all know it will just be more invective and evasive talk). Reality bites, huh?
my gut tells me that they (thunder/bangu) will do this whether the other cc's are on board or not. they haven't won 15 state cups over the last two years by standing still and worrying wether the cc's care or not.
The only ones on board are Bangu. The only ones who've rejected it are... no one. CC boards need time to make a decision like this.
Anyone have details on the Monday meeting. I've heard it was fairly productive. Did all the clubs decide to band together and kill the idea?
If MYSA ditches their support of the MN pro team because of differences on elite player development issues, I say not one single MYSA decision maker deserves to represent MN soccer for one more minute. You can't claim to represent all when you ignore the higher level players or don't give those players the environment to best develop. Don't anyone dare say "ODP" either.
MYSA will also open the door and roll out the red carpet for competing league and soccer organizations that will once and for all be completely fed up with ignorant decision makers claiming to work in the best interest of the entire MN soccer community. So maybe their rejection will be a good thing for this state.
Should MYSA decide to support the Thunder in this, there is still no guarantee that it will be successful. Key clubs need to get involved but IMO there are simply too many egos involved on the club side of things for this to work. I hope it does - but if not it was a great try.
so let's see, the Woodbury Inferno are U16, so in a few more years, I predict that every girls state cup championship and almost every boys state cup championship will be won by either bangu/thunder (or maybe ssm at the oldest age)......but the cc's will dominate the MN premier league (lol).
There is no doubt in my mind that we will soon see competing leagues forming to counter the increasing ineptitude of MYSA. Instead of having one large inept organization, Little Mia, Little Landon and their parents will have several to choose from. All will be eager to collect money.
I keep reading about "new leagues, new leagues" but other than the fact that it might not be run by MYSA, what would be the incentive or motivation to change (unless for many that is the incentive/motivation)? Are the teams going to be any different? Are they going to stop the exodus to MRL? How will this improve player development? They seem more like a panacea than a true remedy or improvement. There is also very little on the horizon in regards to new elite level development or player identification. Until the USSF moves away from ODP (which is where virtually 95%-100% of the youth national teams come from) not much is going to change. The USSP academies seem to have a foothold on the boys side, but not sure the feasibility of them on the girls side. Someone please help me understand....
2:39 MA; 3:39 MA. So, let's see here: The question was, "Who's on board?" Uh, no one other than bangu. So, you're waiting for them to come around? You're looking a little blue (not thunder or bangu blue, either) in the face. Breathe! Breathe! I also like the pejorative defiance of saying that they will either come around or MYSA and all of the clubs who reject this will lose out and are dumb for failing to get on board. The more you say...Did you ever stop to think that you're talking about an awful lot of people saying you're not doing the right thing? Who's out there jumping on the thungu wagon? MYSA?, more than a hundred soccer clubs?, doc's across the metro?, boards across the metro?...Who's on board? It's like, "Who's on first?" : ) Here's one for you: How many state cups would bangu have without MYSA? No fair! No fair!
somewhere, somehow, Bangu and/or MA must have done "ishkebible" wrong. the posts are filled with such deep rooted anger or it's 11:59pm and the "liquid courage" had kicked in.
peopel like 11:59 just can't see it. That's ok. You don't have a kid who would benefit from it, you're not in a club who can get involved and stands to lose players, you just don't believe in it, that's ok. Why though try and undermine it? Becuase it's set up at the older age groups to cater to the best MN has to offer? You're the same person who complains that your kids school has gifted and talented programs.
We might need another warning here. I think 11:59 just got slandered! I love the fact that MA just can't let it go. Oh, and to 11:59's question, who's actually joining this venture? I, too, heard it's DOA. So, does that mean that all of the dumb, jealous people are too smart and happy where they are? That's all right, beat them down some more. Then they'll like you better for sure!
I'm not with the Thunder or Bangu. I think before we CC's get too worked up congratulating ourselves that no CCs are on board with the Thungoo plan we should listen carefully. That sucking sound we hear in the coming years is the sound of many of our best players being attracted to the new Thungoo program.
As I sit here at the Mendota Heights Caribou sipping my latte on a beautiful MN morning I thought I’d chime in on the Thunder Academy discussion. I’ve been a frequent reader of this blog and this will be my first post, albeit quite lengthy. Tomass will let me know if I should have posted this on another site and provided a link to it =-)
I have sat in on the Thunder presentation and think I have a good idea about what they are trying to do. I have seen both ends of the CC spectrum with a child at the Premier level and another playing C2. Hopefully this post will provide some clarity to people who haven’t yet been exposed directly to the Thunder’s thoughts.
I will say straight up that I believe in what they are doing. They want to begin to cater to the elite players at the older ages (u13 and above) in order to help Minnesota take the next step forward in player development. Amos says that he constantly gets questions about the lack of Minnesota players on the Thunder roster. His answer is that we, as a state, and not doing enough to develop the top level kids. IMO, the Thunder feel they are in the best position now (with new owners who are not focused on generating a revenue stream from a Thunder-run youth system) to unite key Minnesota soccer clubs and personnel behind this vision. I agree with this completely. There is not one club in the area who can boast all the top players as well as the coaches needed to develop this talent. Bangu has tried, but Bangu is not there. MYSA’s attempt at elite player development is ODP and the Minnesota Premier league, neither of which can offer what the Thunder can potentially pull together.
The Thunder’s approach to us though is more than just about elite player development. They are offering all the members of their potential “Affiliate” clubs a connection with the pro players (and the Lightning). They want to use this connection to help increase the passion for the game in our area to those interested - by hosting exhibition games in our area, offering to help with our own club’s training and camps, offering all our club members tickets to their games, offering to dedicate players to our club to use as we see fit, etc. This is the first time the Thunder have come to us to offer something. In the past it’s always been “support our camps” and “buy our tickets”. The change is refreshing.
The Thunder propose that their affiliate clubs host Thunder Regional Academies for the u9 to u12 age groups. The regional academies would be open to any interested player regardless of current ability, similar to how MA has promoted the Bangu Academy program. There is no talk of elite at the younger age groups, only interest. The Thunder would then look to pull the true cream of the crop from all regional academies and from non-Thunder programs to the Thunder Elite Academy at the u13 age group.
It is a really solid plan - benefitting all our players and our club while we in turn serve as a magnet club in our district for talented young players who can be identified and developed for the Thunder elite programs at older age groups. I did say the Thunder regional academies would be open to all, but the thought is that it would include the more talented players who likely show more interest in the game.
However, it will be a difficult sell. We (the seven potential affiliate clubs) met at the MYSA office this past Monday to discuss. I believe everyone sees what the Thunder are trying to do for the elite players, but instead of people looking to make this work there was more talk about the problems and why this shouldn’t work.
There are too many people hung up on the Bangu aspect of this as well. Just look at this blog with jibes of Banger and Thungu. I think it is important for people to understand that sometimes in order to go forward, the past needs to be left behind. Multiple clubs have the chance to be involved in this new venture, to help shape it.
Somehow, the Thunder have convinced the Bangu club to dissolve. Don’t ask me how this happened but it is what it is. If all the clubs bail then what is left? Bangu, bigger and better than ever, now with all the benefits of ties to the state’s pro team. People have a chance to get involved and move this state forward as more of a collective rather than one club saying give us your best players and we’re not giving anything back a la Bangu or the new Thunder Academy with only Bangu backing it.
I heard a rumor late this week that MYSA suspended their sponsorship of the Thunder effective immediately because the Thunder were thinking about delving into the youth development sector beginning as early as this coming August. That’s a real shame. MYSA is ready to give up support of Minnesota’s professional team because they don’t agree with the Thunder’s ideas on youth development. MYSA is effectively stating that they don’t see the benefit to the game as a whole that having a local pro team brings. Or they do grasp the benefit to Minnesota soccer but are willing to forego this benefit to the masses because the Thunder is looking to address the development of the minority. It was stunning to hear this if true. Anyone else hear anything?
I’m sure it’s clear how I feel about this. I think it’s a long shot to get buy in from all the clubs approached which is too bad. I feel there are just way too many egos (both soccer professionals and current board members) to make it work. However, we did receive an email last week that said the Thunder met with MYSA and MYSA suggested to open up the affiliate club status to all MYSA clubs via an application process. It will be interesting to see if the clubs not initially approached by the Thunder show interest if club’s like mine choose to go our own way.
Regardless, kudos to the Thunder for attempting this. I for one, hope you have the resolve to stay the course here. If we’re out this year there is nothing saying we don’t revisit this in the near future. You’ve got us, and many other clubs, thinking. Me and my family will continue to support the team as we work to attend a handful of games each year. Best of luck in your new direction!
Which clubs are the "potential seven affiliate clubs"? If any or all of them don't buy in to this, will other CC clubs be approached? Doesn't the Thunder want all CC clubs involved?
The clubs, roughly speaking, approached were: EP, WDBRY, Wings, MU, Blackhawks, Dakota Rev,and I believe Maplebrook. The idea here was that they wanted to get a spectrum of representation across the metro. The reality, even their leadership have admitted, is that it's a pretty vague combination of friends of the Thunder or bangu leadership, facilities availability, and some effort to draw in a couple of bigger clubs. The clubs left out, it goes almost without saying, include: St. Croix, Lakeville, PSA, Edina, Tonka, WBL, Burnsville, Eagan, NSSA, and other large local clubs. This list alone gives an idea of the lack of effort to reach out to the community at large - a major mistake by the Thunder.
While I can appreciate your perspective, I think you're missing some of the major points of concern here. First, to simply say that bangu will go away is naive and short-sighted. MA and company are not about to give up their perch and particularly their perceived rights to coin. That's why the so-called youth academies are so important to the proposal. Rather than having to recruit kids into their program, this proposal passes the burden to the affiliate clubs to recruit, coach, and provide facilities for the teams. The version of the program that I last heard about placed no limit on the number of teams the academies can field at the younger levels. That would provide money (a lot of money) for the Thunder, and particularly for MA and his boys. Your comment made it sound as if this was a win-win for the cc's, and as if MA is perhaps doing this out of the good of his heart. There is much more to it: This would make his life easier by passing much of the work burden off to others. In addition, bangu's struggle to attract sufficient high-level coaches would end as the clubs would provide them (thinning the pool of quality coaches for the cc's) and the facility crunch would be alleviated by targeting clubs like DR, which can provide a dome (potentially at the expense of community programs). Kids who play in the academies would not register with MYSA (purportedly to avoid pummeling community teams in league play). They would also not be registered with their clubs, all of which would hurt MYSA leagues in both quality and funding for the of programs the organization provides for the state. Unfortunately, the Thunder missed a grand opportunity to embrace the community as a whole through their new ownership. By pulling bangu in bed with them, they have managed to offend most of the clubs in the area and MYSA, too. The most basic common sense would say that since the Thunder need to make money, they should build a wide and strong base. Bangu is the antithesis of the vehicle needed for this (something MA acknowledged at MYSA when he admitted that his club has a bad reputation in the community). The final note here is to look at both history and the future. To say that this would get rid of bangu and replace it with something better is not guaranteed. Specifically, cc's should not jump to the conclusion that anything is better. The fact that this model has changed so many times in just a few weeks is a clue to how MA and company work. What you are being told is a diluted version of what you may want to hear, but handing this group the power to dominate the community is opening the door to all kinds of potential trouble. Again, with all due respect to MA, he needs to be at the center and have his way and he is very willing to burn bridges and turn on people to get what he wants. His program provides great soccer training, but there has always been the asterisk (I can't wait to hear his response to this...) that it is his training and his team and he can change the rules in an instant (and has). The unlimited nature of the younger academy proposal is a warning sign, and cc's need to be very careful what they wish for if they contemplate coming around on this. The so-called big egos and parent boards should not be written off so easily: Many have first hand experience in working with these people and are legitimately concerned for their welfare of their players and programs.
11:26 - I'm sure if and when MA wants to respond it will be under his own sign in name (not under your misguided belief that he changes his name to suit the post - for that people need to look in the mirror).
This will be my second to last visit and post to this site (until I receive an email from mnfutbol or Tomass letting me know the format has changed). I'm not afraid of debate, but this is not debate. Should you want to continue to throw jabs in my face, feel free to email me at your leisure to continue discussions.
In the end of the day, the Thunder initiative will be a very good thing for this state. It may not happen as initially planned this year, but it will happen. Those who think this is a money making scheme of some sorts have no idea about the financial resources the Thunder now possess. Time will bring all this to light.
Our Thunder Academy proposal has changed dramatically since mid December, thanks to the combined contributions, thoughts, and suggestions from multiple community coaching directors and board members. It's been a true pleasure to sit down with people from many different clubs as we looked to continually tweak and perfect this organic initiative.
In it's current form, it would be a model youth development system in the US and I would hope that some of the people who helped shape it over these last two months get a chance to see some direct benefit in the near future. Should clubs choose otherwise, then so be it. Could it be a great thing if certain clubs join at the onset? No doubt in my mind.
We've reached a point in MN soccer where one club by itself is not the answer to the development of the top level player. What is needed is cooperation and collaboration between multiple clubs to benefit the elite. The Thunder are trying to do this while also offering benefits to the club masses who aren't a part of the Academy system.
Some call us crazy, but we are not unique in this quest as a dozen MLS teams have formed youth systems, and nearly half of the USL first division teams (the league the Thunder are part of) have begun down the same path. Nearly 20 youth systems across the US affiliated or managed by professional organizations, none would be set up (with multiple clubs) like we are trying to do here.
It's not only professional organizations that are leading this movement. Three HUGE clubs in St Louis, a perennial soccer hotbed in the US, have agreed to join forces in the best interest of the elite players. Two of these clubs absolutely hated each other until they were brought to the same table. Past baggage was left behind as they all looked to the future together. We are trying to do something similar here.
Regardless of the eventual make up of the Thunder Academy, it's been a positive and productive two months for many involved, both on the Thunder end as well as within many of the clubs. I think this would be agreed upon even by people in clubs who may not vote in favor of supporting this.
Though I really can feel the love on here most of the time, it's good to hear from obama and cc guy that there are key decision makers in the clubs who do see this vision. Mark my words, we are on the path towards something special here with the Thunder.
Best of luck to all. I know I'll be sorely missed... :)
Do all the cc's that were approached have year round facilities (domes)? Perhaps they were looking mostly at the ones that could provide the venues versus truly looking for a "spectrum of representation"?
So it seems that we have the visionaries and vision less here. I have read arguments on both sides and agree with MA on this point,and believe it is the main point to be made, "We've reached a point in MN soccer where one club by itself is not the answer to the development of the top level player. What is needed is cooperation and collaboration between multiple clubs to benefit the elite." So why not embrace a genuine effort to raise the bar in Minnesota. Those that comment on the negative side of the debate I would suggest that you become part of the process if you are so passionate. It seems to me that the overall idea is on target, and as with any project involving many organizations a great deal of tweaking is required both before the launch of this program and after it get started. Does it really matter that Bangu is involved? If some CC's that were not invited into the initial meetings want to get involved I would bet that the academy would welcome them if not now, then in the near future after the program is up and running, which it seems will happen regardless. I think that the program will succeed without the CC's or MYSA but it would accelerate MN into a higher level of soccer if they were on board.
does it really matter whether it is 0 cc's or 15 cc's? They are going to do it, they most likely will be successful, their players will improve (the main reason), and more players will continual to migrate over to be a part of it. If the thought process is "it must be wrong if no one else agrees", then you might want to look at their players/teams successes over the past few years. In many ways the same argument has been made about that club for several years.
If i were the new thunder owners, i will put my energy into making the "real" thunder successful and wingames on the field. This youth stuff is brutal and I know we all have good intentions but as a former season ticket holder, I have yet to see the Thunder produce a winning team since days of old. I can't imagine the MN professional team with new ownership dablling with crippled cc.
Please produce a good soccer team with talent and the rst will follow.
Where we struggle in MN is not the lack of visionaries, is the lack of intentines to make tough decisions and put our money where our mouths are.
I hear the Thunder has new ownership, new stadium and new talent. Come September, we need to see Thunder with talented on the field. Who cares if Thunder merges with Bangu or gets many cc together. Win the USL title and we will support the initiatives.
Yes, 10:26 - it does matter how many clubs are involved. First off, as near as I can understand the model, the more buy in around the area, the better it will be for everyone involved. Second, without the involvement of cc's, this just becomes bangu in Thunder clothing. It doesn't seem like that is the goal here.
THANK YOU 3:08! If the Thunder do not put a winning team on the field, the rest of this is pointless.
Salaries are supposedly tripling in some cases and players who used to be able to skate through and remain with the team are now being told that their workrate has to go up and that nobody's position is guaranteed. Including the coach's.
Have to agree with obama....have a kid who plays premier and one who doesn't. While they both love playing soccer, they both have different priorities and goals they want to reach in regards to the game. One obviously plays for Bangu and one plays for a Community Club. One has not encountered any problems from other parents or peers the other would just as soon go to SSM (not in our budget tho)and forgo all they crap they have gotten from peers and local coaches alike. Guess which is which. The point here is who cares where your child gets thier training from, I believe it should only matter to the kid on the pitch and the parents paying for it.
My "phenom" is so burnt out training 4+ days a week year round that at U14 wants to go back to playing community soccer with her friends at C2 or quit altogether. And she is not the only one out there that feels that way. There is another side to this academy concept, total burn out before high school.
True burn out does happen but others can't seem to get enough, as bangumon alluded to, you've got to make the right choice for your child and family. The Thunder Academy may happen or not, in the end it won't attract every high level player because some will make other choices for various reasons (enjoy playing with friends from school, multi-sport athlete, or Mom and Dad just can't get them to it).
6:03pm, That is true, but kids from CC's, Elite Clubs, College's, they all leave for what ever reason. Why do you try to make SSM seem like its the only place this stuff takes place at?
Proof...Nikki Thaden, University of Texas, All-American, U20 Natl Team starter, All Big-12 yada yada yada..She just up and quit after her Soph year and dropped out of UT. A year later she went back to school at Drake and finished her degree and also played. These things happen all the time. So your point is what?? If players at any club, school, or team are not happy, should they stay?
I just watched the 16s play Friday PM. Im sure you must of been there right? Since your so in the know? The team looked fine to me, they played well, you can tell they have been training during the winter. Oh and by the way, do you happen to know their spring schedule?? They are almost done for the year. Burn Out? Nah, didnt think so. Oh yea, Spring break is in a few weeks, almost 3 weeks long, Last I checked all the kids are going home for break.
Proof....Burn out? There are a few others that will be guest playing this spring/summer doing State Cup, Manchester Cup, Vegas showcase during Spring Break, Region II ODP camp, Burn out? Some of these players thrive on this stuff.
Iv given some examples, Please if you have any examples please post. If no proof then please try to refrain from posting rumors and or lies.
what are there....maybe 30 girls playing soccer at SSM? this blog gets postings from what.....a minimum of 6-8 different SSM parents. That must be the highest parent:daughter blog ratio in the world (lol). one word....vicariously.......
Not all of us SSM parents are gullible 5:29, nor is it funny.
What is sad about all of this is that some believe they need to regress to junior high-level garbage whether its cheap shots at SSM, Bangu or whomever.
A number of people I know from outside of Minnesota (some are SSM parents, some are not) lurk in here on occasion and they all say pretty much the same thing: it does not make youth soccer in the state, its clubs or its teams look good.
I suspect the other blogs ceased operating at least partially due to the owners spending a lot of time deleting garbage. I can't say I blame them either for their respective decisions to euthanize their own blogs.
Don't know which team out there trains 4+ times a week but it certainly isn't a Bangu team. My point 6:03 was IT IS ABOUT WHAT THE KID WANTS and what you as a family can afford. No poking at SSM, know some pretty good players who go there. So if your kid is saying they want out of whatever system they are in perhaps you should listen to them.
212 comments:
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Sweeper .....this is for you if you are still out there. A classic from the Flying Circus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrShK-NVMIU
Hi Tomass-- You must be lonely. No one is blogging at you yet.
K. Wepking, the most decorated prospect in the ballyhooed 2006 recruiting class for MDW, has transferred to Marquette.
Thanks, Tomass, just what I needed.
As usual, though, I have to agree with Marx, Socrates was CLEARLY offside.
I visit this blog and other blogs often enough to understand that in an "anonymous" state, people will say the most outrageous things and behave like brats. Like so many other people, I take away what interests me, post occasionally, and discard the rest as garbage. Some of the posts from the last couple of weeks have been a joke. However, I find it even a bigger joke that this or any blog is shut down for a week...
or forever...
...and I guess forever is fine if it's going to be shut down because people are "bickering". I'm sure many people know that it takes 3.5 minutes to set up a blog... It takes lots more work to make a true blog work - this is more of a chat room than a blog and I understand and accept that.
I think this blog site lost any credibility it had by closing for a week.If it gets its share of silly posts so what,its a blog board,no more no less.The mod. should loosen up a bit.
I do feel players names should not be used though,especially in a negative way,thats cheap and in poor taste.As for Coaches,fair game,DOC's and such,slaughterhouse for them!Point being,leave kids alone,adults should be able to take a knock or two so long as its soccer related only.
what would be a good reason to shut down a blog?
When a blog is owned and operated by an individual who is anomymous (even though his/her identity is well known), it doesn't really matter what a good reason is to shut it down. It just gets shut down. If I operated a blog, I would not shut it down completely, but I would close down topics that are going nowhere and open new ones. Maybe that is too much work...
It's all because of the damned igloo people. They just cause trouble...especially the ringleader. I think I heard one of the igloo people call him by a name which started with a "J"?
As an example (the igloo people post)... This thread had some potential. Several people posted somewhat well thought out posts and then it is interrupted by a low IQ poster. Cute? Funny? Stupid!
These are the kind of posts that get people bickering.
I don't know how a blog can lose credibility by shutting down when it is being abused. I applaud the blogger's decision to establish boundaries of acceptable conduct, as well as to show that it is not a forum to be taken for granted. I hope the silly actions of a few don't ruin what could be an enjoyable and helpful basis for discussion about youth soccer.
Any information on the proposed MN Thunder Youth program? Is it possible this could replace Bangu?
Not replace Bangu, the two are merging into one.
I agree with 10:07, but there isnt anything enjoyable or helpful on this site.
The Thunder never had a youth development program aside from their camps. New ownership, new ideas, new vision. Why would they not want to merge with arguably the state's elite club to kick start their own program? Seems logical.
I don't think the merger is as much a 'merger' as morphing elite soccer into something more useful for the Thunder, while eliminating the myriad of administrative problems that Bangu has . . . mainly fields. The biggest joke is that Bangu wants their players to receive special treatment = they receive automatic berths onto the academy teams. What's the matter Bangu??? Afraid of a competitive tryout with the host clubs?
Not that I don't think they'll get their special treatment anyway, esp. if Abboud and Cook are running the show.
Don't you think it's just a thinly veiled attempt to justify the $$ MA takes from the Thunder payroll??
Bangu want's their players to receive special treatment? lol I don't think so. Bangu is about top level development though they don't have the top level players at all age groups. Why would they guarantee their players special treatment when they don't even do that within their own club year to year. Your comments are based on complete ignorance.
Like em or not, Abboud, Cook, Singer, etc have build the state's premier girls development program for higher level players. The Thunder are smart to approach them to provide a core group of talent; both players and coaches.
As for payroll, we are not in a utopian society where people can freely donate their time without worry of mortgages, bills, etc. Many will pay for the structure and opportunity the Thunder are seemingly about to begin offering, as they should, for in the best interest of the players it will take full time people to pull this off.
The girls side doesn't need much help as Bangu is already feeding the Lightning program. IMO, the Thunder are in a position to really solidify the boys side of the equation, develop future Minnesota talent for their first team, while raising the level of the game in our state. About time and more power to them as they should have stepped up to lead the elite development a long time ago. If you disagree, who else should do this? MYSA? Faribault Shattuck? I don't think so, but I could be wrong.
Now if the Thunder can only put on a winning product on the field...
I'm a huge Abboud fan (and a Thunder supporter) but Abboud doesn't make decisions for Bangu. I'm sure his input is given weight, but if Bangu has decided to merge with the Thunder its because the Bangu board feels it is in the best interest of their overall vision of elite player development. Simple as that.
Merging with the state's pro organization, an organization with new owners who with $$ and a vision to completely redefine the Thunder in this market is a great move. Can't wait to see what comes of this.
I have to laugh at Anon 1:56 comments...
Send your best players to Bangu's tryouts, if they're good enough they'll make the team.
I remember a few years ago when the kid of the Bangu treasurer's kid was cut from the team!
That club will pick their teams based on ability and will gladly welcome the top players from any club to the tryouts.
What is the timing of this potential merger? Will it happen before the 2008 Summer season?
I know my club is also talking with the Thunder and is likely following Bangu's movement towards consolidation under the new Thunder youth system. I believe MA is also talking with EP, Dakota Rev, Blackhawks, and, believe it or not, Woodbury.
Regardless of my club's final decision I will be a very interested observer in this unique initiative as many playes (both cc players and elite players) should reap the benefits.
Don't laugh so quickly Anon 6:31. . .
We did send some of our best players to Bangu's tryouts. They were good enough (some Blue, some White) and opted to NOT become part of Bangu. I just think it's laughable that anyone would expect special treatment at a new entity.
There are definite merits to the outline of what's been proposed, but the devil's in the details.
What is your point Anon 4:22, you had kids go to tryouts and choose not to play for Bangu? That happens all the time, not only at Bangu but also all clubs, players need to find what is the best fit for them, Bangu is not for everyone and I believe the club makes that perfectly clear when they meet with the parents at tryouts.
There will be no merge of youth clubs and the Thunder. There could certainly be an association, but absolutely no change of a club rolling all of its teams into the Thunder. Even with the change of ownership at the Thunder, the frachise is still about making money, not developing players...unless they can sell them.
"K. Wepking, the most decorated prospect in the ballyhooed 2006 recruiting class for MDW, has transferred to Marquette.".
Must have gotten a stiff neck watching the ball fly over the midfield.
This is absolutely hilarious. Who is in here defending the the Thungu merger? The comment that it makes sense for the Thunder to get in bed with bangu because they have the top teams is so short-sighted as to require a serious prescription. Even MA should be able to see that this is the equivalent of sending the fox to talk with the remainder of the chickens about turning over their offspring to improve relations with the fox community.
The Thunder and their new owners should have sat down with the presidents and doc's of the top ten clubs in the area (possibly minus gu to make the proper impression) and explained that they want to build a new club with the cooperation of the local clubs. This would have given the initiative a chance. Instead you send Mark to represent credibility for improving relations with other local clubs? It's laughable.
The Thunder don't need bangu. Quite simply they need the kids that bangu recruits away from the other clubs in the area. Instead of torching relations with those clubs even further, use a little imagination. The Thunder have created a zero-sum game in which clubs have to choose between supporting Thungu or not supporting the Thunder. Woodbury, St Croix, Blackhawks, EP, Wings, PSA, and the others would be stupid to "host" these teams. The proposal would apparently be that Thungu would build 12 teams in each age group across 6 districts. These teams would not play in MN. What will be left? The clubs would provide facilities and their top coaches and their players would register with Thungu, not their clubs. It's also a plan without any serious financial underpinnings and word is that the fees would be extremely high for the players (lots of people to pay off).
Here's the RX:
Drop gu and MA - appeal to the clubs directly.
Form one team in each age group in each gender, 12-19. This will not be a threat to the clubs and will still leave plenty of talent to maintain decent leagues in MN.
Future programs can include academies for 5-8 and 9-12, which will allow the Thunder to expand their financial base.
As it is, this initiative is a bad joke and it just looks like an effort to slap a Thunder nametag on bangu programs. Do you want to win in the short term or develop widespread community support for your team and programs? bangu is one for two and the Thunder are 0-2 and threatening to undermine what minimal support they still have in the community. Fix it or flunk.
That last post is idiotic. Your jealousy/hate of Bangu makes you believe they should not even be a part of an elite system? Where have you been? Who else has been able to do what they've done to help MN kids play at the top competitive levels? They're not Eclipse or Hawks but they are trying to do what is best for a very small demographic. Don't care for their tactics, don't care for their coaches, that's fine. But to disregard their efforts shows complete lack of the big picture and of higher level development.
The Thunder is smart to include Bangu, Bangu is smart to realize that the vision they have of elite player development can best be realized under the Thunder.
It's a sound plan to also approach key community clubs. The previous poster sounds like he/she is a member of club 8 or 9. The Thunder works in partnership with their clubs helping them raise the overall level of play in their area while the clubs help the Thunder by providing fields and players - increasing the talent pool and the chances of identifying the higher level players early - and then moving them at U14, U15, or whatever age, to the Thunder Academy where I would assume there will be coaches like Ian and Buzz to help these players reach the next level. This will be great for our state and for the top level kids.
There will likely be CC backlash from those not involved but if they choose to spurn the Thunder and not promote the local pro team, that in itself will speak volumes to their true interest in MN soccer development and the development of kids in their communities. Seems the Thunder are prepared for this financially now. If they're not they better be.
It's about time our pro club put their foot down and wasn't swayed by comments like those from the previous poster. Make no apologies for looking to develop elite players. Do it in cooperation with key communities not in conflict like Bangu has done. Develop MN players for future Thunder and Lightning teams. Build your brand and unite the state's fractured elite youth system (especially the boys).
For people who see it as Thungu and can't get past that, leave them behind in their archaic thinking worlds. Fix it or flunk? More like get on the bus or get under it.
Versions of your plan has already been tried by several previous Thunder regimes. All it would do is add another layer of cost and adminstration. The local clubs would still have all the work to do.
The clubs you mentioned don't want to loose control. They also don't want to see the Thunder making money off all of their hard volunteer work (remember this is MN, we hate big business...except the one giving us our paycheck!)
Because there is no wide spread youth development amoung the upper 2 tiers of professional teams, and no concept of signing, buying and selling players, it will be difficult for the Thunder to build something that does not require significanlty more expensive fees for players/families.
The Thunders desire to have an instant youth system would only come from cooperation from a club like Bangu. I don't see this happending because Bangu is really an association of team. Each team takes input from the DOCs but they basically build their own rosters, play their own schedule and don't get to caught up in club politics.
Who knows, the Thunder may pull something off with a few of the clubs mentioned, but the deck would be stacked against them unless they can wrap up all the major clubs. Then top players options would include the Thunder and Bangu.
The Thunder should be more focused on putting a quality product on the field. They were painful to watch last year.
They DO need a quality product on the field! I've heard that the new owners have made this one of their priorities which we all should be excited about.
I've also heard that their owners want to completely separate the youth Academy from the pro team/camps in terms of cash flow. I don't see the owners dumping a ton of $ into the youth program, but on the flip side I don't see them needing the youth program to fund the organization. Have you seen what one of the owners has planned for St Paul development? We're not talking chump change anymore. He's a first class guy from what I've seen and will elevate the Thunder to unprecedented levels.
Lundgren & Bagnall - NSCAA/adidas Girl's High School All America Team
Keidoe & Monasterio - NSCAA/adidas Boy's High School All America Team
Parkhill & Schultz - NSCAA/adidas Girl's Youth All America Team
Bunbury & Karpeh - NSCAA/adidas Boy's Youth All America Team
Annual convention and awards handed out this weekend in Baltimore. Nice to see MN receiving a bit of recognition
Interesting stuff:
http://micssoccerblog.blogspot.com/
7:25 - is there a reason you are posting that in every thread in here? some reason you really want everyone to read that?
8:35 I found it in 2 of about 25 posts, but I got board checking all the others, so it could be in the 25 older ones that I didn't bother checking.
Is there some reason that *you* don't want someone to read it.
You can be sure that your comment will steer everyone there now.
oooooh, you caught me! because I am secretly from Wisconsin and spend all my time trolling MN blogs to make sure nobody ever finds out what is happening in Wisconsin. I especially don't want you to find out about MORE anonymous bashing of people through stupid internet emails and web site - because we have enough of it going on in this state on here. posting that in multiple threads, the two threads that are still active in here that pertain the men's soccer, obviously whoever that is REALLY wants people to look at it... for some reason.
you evil mastermind you...
god I feel like I get more and more stupid every time I read these "blogs."
so based on that theory - I should be a vegetable by now ........some may would not disagree with you.
Wow, take a chill pill 6:21. I think you are giving me and Anon 7:25 way too much credit. With all the threads on this blog I and others have posted the same thing twice and in two differnt threads. The Mic site looks like a new blog trying to get something start on college soccer in eastern WI.
If you really read this blog regularly, then you will recall we have some bashing here as well...MIAC coaches, MYSA, clubs, club coaches, ODP coaches, HS coaches...we also have the occasional emails posted from coaches about tryouts, or HS playing time, etc.
I think most of us Mn'er would love to have a D1 men's coaching staff to bash. Of course we also have the parent bashing here as well...which the Mic blog has some of as does the brewcity one.
I'm guess you are either a player or coach at UWM, support the current staff and have fairly thin skin. Take the opportunity to express your opinion with either your real name or even anonymous (most MN'er are too chicken, myself included, to use their real names outside of standup people like Tomass and couple of parents.)
I'm sure many people out there would love to hear your thoughts. These are afterall blogs/chat boards, serving the purpose of exchaning ideas and opinions.
Not to get off track, but, does anyone here have any suggestion for a good summer residential soccer camp (besides the Edge) in MN or WI?
Google and Yahoo searches did not do much good. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
the U of M holds a very good camp
quit promoting the edge indirectly
I was not promoting the Edge, my daughter had a bad experience there with a big headed MN D2 college coach.
She had a great experience the first year, but we'd rather not go back.
Thanks anon 2:12, the U does not have their 2008 info on their website yet.
UW Eau Claire has a great camp, my daughter had a great time!
The Shattuck camps are great, but I don't know if they have a summer residential program. Their Youth Academy program is top notch, though. My son participated in their winter program and really improved his game.
Try your post again without the words bus and bomb in the same sentence. Thank you.
Everybody recruits players, they may develop some players but the bottom line is look at the Premier level teams at U17 and count how many players on the roster have been there for more than 2 years....... very few high level teams are developed and great credit goes to the clubs that are able to develop players and not just create teams from picking the bones from the carcasses of smaller clubs.
I know of one U17 team that is like that - The EP boys team. Just one new player this year. Most have been together over the last 5 years.
Tomass = Veggie Soup....perfect on a day like today!
BanguMom....Not sure what age group your dd plays, but Bangu 18s I think White, will be down at Shattuck this weekend. Shattuck plays Bangu on Sunday. Be nice to met you if your plannin on coming down??
LOL - They'll all look like anons to her. Bangumom, good hearing from you and make sure you introduce yourself to everyone you meet if you go down. Bring a watch so you can tell one anon from another. ;-)
between the market and the cam-pains (yes i meant to do that), i thought i'd take a break for some good news....none here i see...except some of the old regulars are still tilting at windmills!
maybe yo-bomma should 'flop like an argentinian' when billary takes a swipe at him...
What a racist post - go away.
Yea, MNFUTBOL cant keep it clean. I still say they should shut this POS site down.
Someone is going to get in serious trouble for slander.
anon 801 - how so?? Get over your political correctness syndrome.
921 - before you yell wolf, make sure you have identified a wolf. Pretty funny though how you say keep it clean and then use an acronym with the opposite connotation.
mn futbol - contact me, I'm working on a solution and want to run some thoughts by you.
I think in about 5 years there will be a fracture in MN soccer. Namely the U14 - u19 elite teams will decide to play fall soccer. Players will have to decide between elite teams and high school.
Forces for are more exposure to non-Minnesotan college coaches. The prestige of a letter jacket isn't as great as playing on a nationally ranked team.
Forces against are the coaches (and I know there a lot of them) that coach both high school and club.
Extra credit points for agreeing or disagreeing without using the word Bangu : )
Agree with splitsville, but there could be another split sooner than that. What happened to MPSL?
splitsville...
its not going to happen. "Talk" of this started years ago in Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, and Kentucky. I say talk, because the predictions never came true. Occasionally a club would put together A SINGLE fall team with a mix of ages, but by and large there was no mass exodus from HS Soccer, even though the elitists said it would happen.
There's too much draw to HS and too much value to it. No, its not the best for techincal development, but you learn other lessons through it that you don't in a club environment - not to mention playing with your friends, representing your school, etc etc.
I've heard this before in other states, it never happens.
How do I get my bonus points?
agreed - you've left off the biggest "force against" that there is... MOST kids LIKE high school. Its the "fun" part of their soccer career. While they know they usually get the best training and competition in club, and they also know that club is their ticket to college, those things come with stress and intensity that can make it feel more like a job. During HS they get to play under the lights, in front of crowds, for their school, with and in front of their friends - its FUN. I know a lot of kids who love HS because it recharges their love of the game. Get rid of high school and you'll loose half those "elite" players to burn out.
I get points to!!!!!!!
Tomass--funniest post of this new year regarding the watches. I may hoist a Guiness to you this evening.
mrs. robinson - you really shouldn't drink alone. The guinness tastes so much better with friends!
the 'baby blues' tried to bully one of their younger teams' goalie this past fall into dropping from her high school team.
glad to say it didn't work, but i predict that club's mindset will not go away soon.
ems, you are so full of crap, there was no bullying involved, the player wanted to know her best options, play JV or train with her club team. She chose HS soccer and the club said fine, she was one of many from that team to play HS this fall. Stop fabricating the truth to justify your dislike for the "baby blues".
Is the the U14 GK from Edina? SW hates Bangu so much that he recommended to her to leave the Bangu team for EP's Premier team at the same age. Hmm... a middle of the road Premier team vs a regional/national contender. Tough one, and impossible not to see Simon's true intentions.
ems, what's better? Playing JV as a 9th grader or training with a team of caliber?
Twinkie, (5:46)
It sounds like bangu is treating their players like possessions!?! Who are they to discourage kids from playing hs?
Anybody else get the feeling that MA writes on here under multiple pseudonyms just to attack people who disagree with him? The above discussion is a good example. Whatever he and his cronies say here, they do pressure kids to play with them in the fall (i.e. by making them pay fees for keeping a roster spot on a team they don't play with in the fall). Any other clubs doing that (uh, no.)? Criticizing SW for disliking bangu is stupid. He's among the best handful of high school coaches and he works very hard for every player he coaches. Hating bangu, if he does, should get him an award, not your shallow criticism. You should aim lower if you want to critique other coaches.
Sorry to burst your bubble but a Woodbury coach requires Wisconsin players to not play HS or leave the team.
give bangu credit then, they have found another way to make money off of people!
the wisconsin girls playing on the woodbury team you speak of were not granted a waiver by wisconsin to play both club and hs at the same time unlike some bangu players in the past..in addition, their high school coach refused their request to do both...so yeah, they had a choice b/t hs and mn club and chose the latter...this was not a decision their coach @woodbury forced them to make, but rather one that wi and their hs forced upon them
anon 1252-will anyone know the real truth? she's not my kid and i wasn't standing there for the conversation with her coach/doc/or whoever. i know what i know.
the baby blues have always been the leader in pushing the envelope (rules) and they spawn similar behavior from other clubs to 'keep up'.
they seem to have stopped 'age group raiding' and now want to take over the complete soccer world as we've known it her in mn. damn hs, full speed ahead!
congrats, you have almost achieved 800lb gorilla status.
sorry gorillas.
I have a child that lives in Wisconsin. A choice usually has to be made at the higher levels of soccer between HS and club. Every once in a while you will have a situation where going to practices/skills sesssions, might work out between HS and club, or a club team will allow the player to play HS w/o attending club games or practices,but usually the player has to make a choice. Players from Wisconsin realize that the club team is usually just starting to practices in full swing to get ready for the summer season or State Cup. So a hard decision has to be made between club or HS. It is part of life living in Wisconsin and being part of MYSA. It is a bummer making the choice what team to play with HS vs. club but we have to deal with it. It is not some "evil" coach deciding or "evil" AD at the HS ,both the club coach and AD have the whole team to think of, it is the player and their family that has to make this hard decision.
1:01,
I think ems summed it up well. The gorilla has been there for some time, but it looks like the other people in the room are getting tired of it's presence and are becoming willing to identify it for what it is.
Oh and for the people who said you Bangu will take any talent, think again. They won't take Shattuck Players anymore and didn't take three ODP players this year, although they were extremely talented.
Wow...
So many of you are obsessed with Bangu.
If I spent that much time worrying about Bangu I wouldn't have time for my own kid's club.
Direct your energies into something more positive...you'll feel better about life.
By the way, we are community clubs. Why take that as a negative?
10:29, I don't think I pressured anyone to forego HS soccer. I gave my opinion to families as to which may be more beneficial for development in my eyes and then fully supported any decisions made.
As for advice from outsiders given to my players encouraging them to seek different teams, I don't know enough about that to comment.
In hindsight, it was probably a very good decision for certain families to participate in HS. Most of the girls who did had a great time.
As for forcing families to pay fees, you have no idea what you're talking about. We have yearly budget numbers spread out into monthly payments. That's why families pay $$ in the fall regardless of where they play.
And regarding Simon, I don't really give a rip if he hates Bangu. I have a lot of respect for what he's done, injecting many qualified coaches into the Minnesota soccer market over the past number of years. Heck, I even approached him to have Coerver head the training of our Academy programs a few years back. He had other priorities and didn't want association with us to negatively affect those priorities, so nothing came about. So be it. We agree to disagree about higher level players' development. Fine. We're all entitled to opinions. Just try not to base yours in ignorance.
Interesting tirade. I'm not sure what's worse, the endless accusations against bangu or the bitter, even sad, tantrums like the one above thrown back the other direction. Neither side improves their cause this way. Remember when this was a BOYS blog?
From the MYSA coaches' code of ethics:
Coaches shall respect the declared affiliations of all players.
I thought this would be of interest to the discussion above.
anon 11:44
Players are not property and they should be made aware of all the opportunities available to them.
If a player from my club had the opportunity to join a Bangu team (or any other MWL team) that would further her development I'd encourage her and her family to explore the opportunity. Coaches who want to hold back their top players when a better development opportunity is available are selfish and I question their motives.
For the young girls that is their best shot of earning a college scholarship. It isn't quite that easy for the boys yet.
Let's work for the advancement of the kids/players. Isn't that why we're all involved in youth soccer?
Ok the first two blogs on this thread get the extra points. But... anyway a new question: If you are coaching at the higher levels (u15 and older, C1 and premeir) and you have a couple of extremely fast players with foot skills (a great first touch and shot). Do you plan your strategy around them and play for the long through ball? Offensive bootball versus the beautiful game.
extremely fast with foot skills...sounds like a defender to me. build up the middle, from the back.
12:10,
Would that be encouraging bangu players to leave bangu for bangu? You gotta at least change your words a little bit so everyone at leasts suspects there is someone else writing this stuff.
I think the point of 11:44 (seems obvious) is that the bangu people, and anonraptormark in particular, don't respect club affiliations in their recruiting efforts. I think the point is fairly obvious and doesn't even require a bangu response. That's just the way it is.
marktiple personalities...
That is exactly the point! When these guys show up at an event, or they create their own "free training event" (read recruiting event at Andover High School) and they hand the kid a card that says something like: You can be a premier player...
Do they ask the player or his/her parents if they have signed a registration form and paid something to a club? My guess is they don't. The kid gives the card to mom/dad and they melt. OMG - My kid can be a premier player!! Quick - call grandma!!!
anon 3:39....sorry to hear your kid didn't get one (but think of all the money you are going to save by not getting ripped off).
You guys bashing MA are unbelievable. I see his post above as most of his others - providing clarity when there are issues that he knows about. I hope he continues to defend what he is passionate about.
Moreover and with all due respect to MA, you guys make it sound like he is the only one with this vision when in fact there are many others in Bangu, the Thunder, and in the CCs who also share the idea of helping top MN kids get to the next level.
Bangu has become the anti-Christ of Minnesota soccer because people like you guys with kids who have been cut/have not been offered spots with them/have had teams beat by them/are in clubs who cannot compete with their top teams/or just plain don't believe in their development plan. It's all so transparent.
The Thunder feel they can help take top MN players to a higher level, in cooperation with a number of clubs, Bangu included. God bless em as they now are in a financial position to do so (so it seems). If people like you choose to boycott Thunder games or discourage your club members from supporting the pro team and watching the area's top level of soccer, what are you saying to your members? "We're going to sacrifice the development that comes by watching pro soccer because we don't like what the Thunder is doing in the youth market. " Give me a break. I feel sorry for people like you. More sorry for the kids you're making "good" soccer decisions for.
I for one hope the Thunder are now financially secure enough to put their foot down, take the reigns of elite level development, and leave all of you behind as they look to carry MN soccer forward.
anon 3:48
That would be funny! I didn't know bangu had adult leagues...
Great Post!!
“Honey can we go to the Thunder game tonight?”
“No!”
“Why not?”
“Because they joined with that youth soccer club the recruits kids from other soccer teams! “
“Oh, but didn’t our child get recruited from the recreational league to play on our local traveling team?”
“Yes, but that’s different, she stayed inside this high school district and she rightfully belongs to this communities soccer team.”
“Oh, I wish the realtor would have told us that when we bought this house. Oh well how about the local high school game then?”
“No!!”
“Why not?”
“Because they are playing Cretin and Cretin recruits too.”
“But didn’t we used to watch your little brother play for Cretin a long time ago.”
“Yes, but they never won back then.”
Agreed!
lol
MN, land of the Zip Code clubs.
MN, land of the Zip Code clubs.
Splitsville,
Your 4:16 is amusing and in some ways well taken. Recruiting does occur and has been a feature of life in various sports and communities for a long time. However, I think a lot of the negative feedback about the bangu/thunder merger is a result of people wanting to support the Thunder and disappointed that they would lean on bangu. The club and MA in particular are not unifying forces, which is exactly what is needed here to build both a widely supported elite club and a large fan base for the Thunder. Whatever his merits as a coach (he's very good), you can read his angry posts on this site and look at the negative reaction to his approach to area clubs about the merger and know that he is not the right front man. Sorry MA.
Amazing...
You people on this blogs really need to get a life.
The animosity you direct at Bangu and SSM who are the 2 programs in the state elevating the level of soccer here is stunning.
Is it jealousy that has caused you to feel this way? Did your kid not get a recruiting phone call from SSM or a card from Abboud?
All your whining is doing is making you look like fools.
Focus on what you can do to help your kid and your kids club get better and quit wasting time and energy on SSM and Bangu which are 2 things you have zero control over.
And to cast a shadow on the Thunder because they now want to work with several of the top clubs in the state clearly illustrates how small minded and petty you truly are.
GROW UP!
Great Post 6:29
8:31, it's bad form to go on and compliment your own post (6:29). Is there something new there? No. It's MA or his minions again. 10:10's point is right on in that so many people dislike the bangu leaders that they can't help the Thunder, who clearly need a broader base.
jeez - there are some folks on this blog who somehow, someway, somewhere felt that Bangu done them wrong. If a soccer club! (or perceived injustice to their child) can arouse such deep-rooted hatred in people, it's not hard to see why there are religious suicide bombers over in the middle east.
I love this blog!!!! Doesn't even matter if you are a Bangu lover or a puppy-kicker. Solid entertainment.
I'll try to give some "inside" perspective as I was in attendance when the Thunder presented to my club. I prefer to remain anonymous and I hope people can appreciate that.
I'm choosing to spend my lunch hour providing some insight as there are many inaccurate rumors running rampant on this blog and I'd hate to see something that I feel is good for MN soccer tainted or blunted in anyway prior to even getting off the ground. My comments come directly from my notes and the handouts provided by the Thunder.
I will also say I don't make the final decision for my club but prospects look good that we'll get involved. And no, I'm not with Dakota Rev.
The Thunder are looking for a way to
i. help grow the game of soccer in MN
ii. identify talent at early age groups
iii. spearhead the development of the elite level players beginning at the u13 age group
They have approached Bangu as the state's current premier club for the higher level players but know that the youth model will take a huge leap forward should they be able to partner with other clubs. They see Bangu for what the club has done, but also see the limitations brought about by the manner that Bangu has functioned historically.
Their pitch to us was about partnering to find ways to benefit all our club's players by connecting them with the Thunder, while also looking to partner to identify and encourage the movement of our top small percentage of talented athletes to their elite Academy at u13 - a program that is sure to not only surround these players with others of similar abilities but also attract in some of MN's best coaches.
The Thunder came to us offering the use of their players as role models in our community, have ties to sponsors who can help us with field development, and want to work with us to find ways to benefit our entire club - not only the elite players at the older age levels.
According to the Thunder they have the financial resources to NOT have the younger Academy kids fund the Thunder team/organization. The Thunder and their camps will still be for profit entities, the Academy will be a 501c3.
To me it's a great vision. Can it be pulled off? That is yet to be determined. Do I think our club will support it? I think we'd be foolish not to want to get involved - for the sake of all our players. If we don't get involved the Thunder seem ready to go it alone (with Bangu). More power to them as I think this demonstrates a clear decision to move forward.
As for the questions about $$, the Thunder are looking to eventually reduce costs for the players involved through the leveraging of their corporate sponsors and eventual owned stadium and training grounds in St Paul. Take out the cost of indoor winter training space and that's a huge savings for the kids' families right there.
As I said I believe their plan and approach is sound. I think they absolutely have the right people leading the initiative - passionate, intelligent, creative, and compromising. Not to mention their combined knowledge of the game and youth soccer development.
Hope this sheds some light on what could be a very good thing for MN as a whole. I could see an eventual partnership with Shattuck, though in the meantime the Thunder venture will for sure help Shattuck get a US Dev Academy team (two from our area to help with opposing teams' travel costs). The Thunder seem a virtual lock for one with the people they have involved and in conjunction with the USL pro team.
Choose to take my words as truth is up to you. I've been there but obviously see things through my own set of filters. Hopefully this post will serve to get any future discussions on the right track, rather than letting wild rumors flourish.
A question to Tomass. Do you feel your club was slighted because they were not approached? True curiosity on my part. Answer if you feel comfortable.
Last thought to mnfutbol - maybe a new thread about this? It's getting confusing searching through 3 different topics for thoughts about the idea.
anon 118 - I'm no longer involved with the administrative functions of CC United. I am assisting with the Referee mentoring program, and serving as a master age group trainer for the U11-U12 boys and girls. I'm also team manager for my son's Tonka team and coaching a team over at EP.
I never heard about this proposal until I saw it on the board. So it did not filter down from any of those three clubs to us worker bees.
I don't think our club leaders would feel slighted if they were not approached, but I do know a couple of them had always suggested a Thunder version of an elite academy would be better for helping focus top talent into top teams. Biggest concern was the former owners did not have the capital resources to start something like this. I think if CC United was approached they would be open to discussing options, however they have a very quality DOC and the key question would have to be "what additional training value is being added that the club isn't already doing.
The Thunder will get much more of an audience to listen than Bangu every will.
Their public approach is correct and they do not have a history of distrust that Bangu does with some clubs.
I would have loved to sit in just to hear all the details of the Thunder program.
anon 1:18,
Great post and I'll vouch for it's accuracy as it is the same pitch our club heard from the Thunder. I however heard it secondhand but it almost word for word what was related to me.
This is going to happen like it or not seems to be the message and any club passing on this opportunity to partner with this new ownership and management group from the Thunder is missing the boat.
If a club in one corner of the metro passes up this chance another club in near proximity will be offered this golden opportunity.
This new ownership group is well heeled financially and this will ultimately lower the cost of playing elite level soccer here in Minnesota.
you can be well-heeled financially but it does have to produce a profit at some point or else you won't be well-heeled financially for very long.
At least they have the working capital to sustain the need for immediate cash flow for a few years
I admit I was extremely skeptical about the proposal initially. Like cc guy, I too heard the Thunder proposal firsthand and do feel it will be a very good thing for MN. I don't know the direction that my club will take, but at least we're all now thinking about possibilities for the future. I am in favor of it.
I'm also going to put my two cents in about Mark. I have had plenty of dealings with him in the past years and never once has his direction wavered as to what he believes is best for the development of the higher level younger players. Bangu has taken tremendous leaps forward in recent years with his addition to the program and it seems a great fit for the Thunder to have him involved with this concept as their front man. I know our board (some of whom did not care for Mark's work previously) left the meeting quite impressed with him and the overall vision and desire on all the Thunder people's parts to make this a true partnership with our club.
To those who feel otherwise I ask this. Like Mark/respect his work or vision or not, who else would be able to pull this off? Ian probably, but who else? Alan Merrick? Simon Whitehead? Tim Carter? MYSA? I think the Thunder will be the first to tell you that they would struggle to do this without Mark and I believe MN should be somewhat proud that this concept is being led by a number of MN people who have not only been instrumental in the pro soccer scene here in MN but also who grew up playing in MYSA.
Please refrain from MA bashing as that's not what I'm looking for. Rather a discussion of other MN people who could have done something similar or who you believe the Thunder could have used. And before people bring up the idea of forming a panel or sub-committee to handle this with reps from multiple clubs, know that this is already what the Thunder have planned and are asking us (the clubs) to get involved in the shaping of this program. We still need a leader to organize and guide the discussions.
I hear there is a meeting between the Thunder and MYSA tomorrow. Anyone know if its open to all? Wonder if they'll post the minutes...
lol - 419 - minutes??? MYSA should call them decades.
Sounds like the Thunder approached this in the manner that was well received. Well done, way to implement a good idea.
Hey 4:19,
If this was such a good thing, what club do you proudly represent? Please do tell. I still keep hearing Dakota Rev was the only club likely to buy in. The way this blog works, one can't give you any credence without id. MA and the Thunder blundered here. MYSA was not happy about this proposal. The presentation to the clubs made it sound like Ian was on board and then like other clubs were buying into this. It's classic Mark marketing ("your whole team is coming to bangu, so you better sign up, too!"), but by most accounts it's a pack of lies. The idea of building 12 teams in each age group is a pathetic misreading of the talent base in MN and has been exposed as a blatant money-making scheme. The Thunder should have known better, and they still have a window to work with other clubs, but the number will be small, and insignificant, with MA leading the way. The Thunder need a decisive majority of EP,SC, WDBRY, Wings, PSA, MPLBRK, Eagan and Lakeville to create a critical mass, and most of those clubs want nothing to do with MA and bangu.
It should be one team per age group in cooperation with a majority of local clubs and spearheaded by Amos and Manny, not bangu cronies. No bangu players should be promised spots before hand either (what are they afraid of, that they missed someone?!)
The fact that there is so much criticism here is indicative of the truth.
You are either choosing to not read between the lines or you don't understand what the Thunder are trying to do.
The non-profit status of the youth academy only means that they get some tax breaks and need to empty the bank account each year. They will use it to employ their players and other Thunder employees in well paying administrative and coaching jobs that will allow them to pay less payroll out of the Thunder, put more people in the seats as their players/coaches will hype the Thunder team, make a % on uniform and equipment sales, etc. They will also charge the youth academy administrative and corporate management fees.
These types of entities have been very successful in MN. Look at United Health Group. The health insurance division is non-profit, per state law. Guess where they buy all of their business services to support that business, that's right from for profit lines of business under the same umbrella. The health insurance company is basically a non-profit shell.
There is nothing illegal about this type of organization. You can decide for yourself if it is immoral. You should, at a minimum, see if for what it is. A for-profit company replacing a non-profit infrastructure and making money off of youth soccer.
Additionally, the top quality coaching argument doesn’t really apply. The Thunder players won't necessarily be better coaches that what exists today in for the top boys and girls teams. In fact, I would argue the overall coaching level would drop for top teams. The top coaches navigate to the top teams now as it is.
So the question is, do the Thunder deserve to cash in on all of the volunteer work and non-profit efforts of Bangu, Wings, Blackhawks, SCV and others? I believe they should focus on putting a quality product on the field instead.
Nickelback,
I am amazed at how some people just can get themselves to stop trying make Bangu the axis of evil. The fact that MA is involved with the Thunder, does not mean that the "Thunder's Grand Plan" has anything to do with Bangu, except that the Thunder would love to just absorb Bangu as the starting point for their academy.
This is not about Bangu. Bangu is not evil. MA is not evil. The Bangu Cronies are not evil.
Get over their success already.
9:54,
"I am amazed at how some people just can get themselves to stop trying make Bangu the axis of evil." I agree! How do people get themselves to stop seeing bangu as a problem? In all seriousness, every week brings more outrageous and annoying behavior by their leadership, and jealousy has nothing to do with the complaining on this blog. Lots of people are fed up, and to return to the issue, the Thunder have the right idea with the wrong vehicle. Do it yourself, guys.
nickelback,
Do you have some examples of this "outrageous and annoying" behavior?
Or just your perception?
Please share specific examples if you have any. You must have many you can share...as you noted every week brings more.
I won't hold my breath.
To the money issue, according to what I've heard the Thunder are looking to make this Academy free for the players involved at the older age groups leveraging their new stadium, sponsors, etc. Something like the NY Red Bulls and just announced for their youth Academy. I think the Chicago Fire also fund their youth system. Guess we'll see what happens here, but assuming this is the goal, I'm sure you guys here will search for something else to criticize while you fumble around in pure ignorance.
Yes do this or else or face our ridicule sound familiar, again over and over bangu , more of the same bangu unaccountability and lack of leadership. Is this community and civic minded thunder leading this or bangu interests, wheres the business plan , are the books closed to follow the money trail like bangus, you betcha ya , field development please who has the fields lol thunder NO , Bangu certainly not, that part of fees and exorbitant coaches salary was skimmed back to one of its cronies to help pay back his restitution. And my all time favorite, the statement of how bangu has historically operated, needs to be changed , is that an admission of guilt. The supposable new bangu sugar daddies with, out of the country and out of the state deep pockets money, let them flash it before you give up something for nothing in this beads and trinket proposal. Let them buy the stadium land and fields like the communities have invested in their own fields and facilities long term . And this bangu giving away its brand for nothing who gets the proceeds and benefits of that. The fees bangu pays for renting snelling or other fields if picked up free or reduced by community clubs not having to be paid, that going to be plowed back into skills development of the wide base of talent and kids ,NO, the bigger pie still gets split by the same hands. Here in Minnesota we call that corporate welfare. In Shakopee at Murphys landing the first Minnesota settlers built the barn first before the house and lived in till the house was built , in bangu business plan if they had one seems to have focused building the the highest and most fee producing numbers in their house brand for short term benefit of few with no regard for long term benefits of owning the land or the facilities and overall benefit to surrounding communities. If this is truly a thunder proposal , the only viable partners ,all egos aside, should be Shattuck or NSC they have the facilities fields and geographical recruiting muscle and brand to make this work go to them first . The only problem there being whose going to be the chief and who decides who gets what , who keeps the books? Thats called a outside board of directors not a dad whose daughter plays for coach in question. This should be guided by a mission statement and guidelines adhered to, not for unsupervised financial gain of a few but the benefit of the sport and the players. And finally what if this does work, do the community clubs really want to be a part of promoting some of its selected talent to not be able to play for community club teams , its high school , odp .at the state tournaments, and state cup , U.S. Academy bans participation in these. Just what are the players playing for , the U.S. academy concept ignores what made the U.S..womens team world cup champ. the beginnings were in the community clubs , kids playing for the fun of game. girls being allowed to play with their brothers, being allowed to play older kids, being allowed to be creative ,less structure with creative skills being allowed to develop. To make it work ,its a team game , adults, compromise and kick away your petty differences like the players do on the field. And most importantly are there truly 44 Minnesota u-16 and u-18 young men the U.S. Academy requires that want to give up the memories of playing with their friends at high school ,odp, state cup and state tournament and clubs including bangu for a chance of a few to play on a bigger stage. There are some that have already made that commitment and they are at shattuck,... thunder go there or nsc and take advantage of larger geographical talent pool and host money making tournaments at nsc. The main reason bangu probably wont go along with this is they dont want to be governed by more altruistic motives other than unsupervised financial gain and individual recognition that has got members into legal trouble already, dont forget the ultimate goal of soccer should be character development not winning or losing. the thunder and the state i hope will be represented by the best of motives in its teams when it completes against the likes of IMG and teams from states already merging their top clubs and be led by positive role models. If this is going to work a community consensus has to be achieved by Minnesota thunder and more structured corporate board without the improprieties of bangu and its usual suspects. Minnesota is closer to Chicago than Texas
Wow. A contender for a top-five rant for 2008 already!
anon 11:09,
Agreed!
The haters are totally obsessed. Amazing how little Billy or little Susie not making a particular team has turned some poor souls into non-stop blithering morons.
As someone recently posted, get some psychiatric help and quick. Your obsession is not healthy.
A class or two in English may also be helpful. There were a lot of long sentences and no real paragraph structure. Your punctuation could also use some improvement. This is a blog, but there is no need to be sloppy.
fyi anon 11:05...US Soccer DOES NOT require that Academy players give up high school. This is why academy teams are only required to attend 3 of the 4 showcases. You don't attend the showcase that falls during your high school season...There are some Academy clubs that are not allowing high school play but not because US Soccer has mandated. Just wanted to clarify
Also, word is that Shattuck will get the invitation to US Soccer Development Academy. Perfect fit...age groups, qualified coaches, facilities etc. Thanks.
Dear 8:12 ("can get your dollar back"),
First, with a name like that, you're obviously working a candy bar machine rather than negotiating with bangu. Also, if they let the older players play for "free" who do you suppose will pay for them? Thunder ticket sales?! That's funny. Nope, that would be somebody else.
Second, 5:43: Start with 11:05 for your list of unsavory behavior (or see the very interesting comment in the state cup strand).
Then read road to regionals. There are more arrogant, derisive shots at so-called community clubs there than the Thunder should need to know that this guy is not going to be well-received by the other clubs in the area. Let me know if you're having trouble finding some examples and I'll happily post a long list for you here (the disclaimer is not an answer: You put it out there and your prejudicial comments are there for everyone to see). This is your community ambassador, Amos? Nauseating.
Do you really want to ask for more?
The bangu (read: MA) tactic here has always been to beat down anyone who criticizes him/them. In all seriuosness, though this is a losing game for you now. You should stick to coaching on the field (no one would argue that you're quite good there). Your anger here just reinforces the negative perceptions.
btw: "hater" is a peculiarly bangu term, along with "you're jealous!" and the word "ignorant" seems to be a popular insult, too.
Well, the fact is that you're not doing the right thing and it is good to know that people here are now calling you on it.
-
A class or two in English may also be helpful. There were a lot of long sentences and no real paragraph structure. Your punctuation could also use some improvement. This is a blog, but there is no need to be sloppy.
WHOEVER POSTED THIS IS A NERD!
So the best you could do when confronted with your tendency to fall back on jealousy et al is to call someone (not sure which post) a nerd? I bet they're at home crying right now. Clearly, the intellectual prowess of goou is too much for their opponents!
How about this: No more bangu bashing as long as there is no more bangu promotion here. Admittedly, we would have no blog then, but it might be a good re-start. mnfutbol: What do you think about a chance to cleanse your blog?
nerd? - as someone who reads this to be entertained, I tend to see bashing first, followed by partisan defending/promotion. So yes, if the bashers bit their tongues (or typing) then you would not have much of a blog.
Wow, in the immortal words of Han Solo, "I'm out of it for a little while, and everyone gets delusions of grandieur!"
I guess I don't see why everyone is so upset about all of the Thunder deal. For me, it seems that having the "community clubs" work with the "axis of all evil" and the Thunder should be a positive step for the state of soccer in Minnesota. I have seen the proposals, heard the pitch and recognize that there will be gains for all. The biggest gains would be for the kids who want easier access to different training environments. Sometimes I let pride get in my way. Maybe this is what is going on around the state right now. Here's what I espoused on the former site - is your kid happy with his/her soccer experience? That's the only question that needs to be asked.
No one is without fault yet we are all casting a lot of stones.
Goo-who, goo-who stop your whining at goo's winning ways. Lace up your boots and work harder for your clubs. Instead of running down the other lads all the time.
use this link to get some actual information from someone who may know the facts.
http://akfutbol.squarespace.com/mn-girls-soccer-blog-2/2008/1/30/thunder-academy.html#comments
nerd 2:42
Where was the last "Bangu promotion" on this blog?
All I see are people bashing SSM and Bangu.
3:06,
nerd's choice of words is off, but there are two sides here and for the reality is that the bangu people do their bashing on rtr, their website, and here as well. It's an arrogance festival. That said, the bashing here is pretty bad, too. So, it takes two to tango, or devolve into idiocy in this case.
You forgot the bashing on the pitch too
oldschoolelite - welcome back, can we get some flank play out of you? Everyone is playing back and forth down the middle of the field. We need to get some width to this discussion because I don't know if there is any chance to get any depth. ;-)
Spot on Tomass
The anti Bangu sentiment on and off this blog represents the minority. That's right, I said the MINORITY of people out there. The majority of Minnesota soccer families and decision makers don't give a rat's behind about what Bangu does. Outside of Minnesota Bangu IS Minnesota competitive soccer.
The minority sure is a vocal one here and blinded by their disgust of the Bangu club, what it stands for, or for some of the people involved.
MA's vision for elite player development at the younger age groups has not once wavered since he joined Bangu. The Thunder organization has shown tremendous confidence in him, in the other Bangu decision makers, and in the clubs whom they've approached to all work towards something better.
For those who say Bangu should not be involved, please come forth with a Minnesota individual or a group of individuals who has more experience at highest levels of the game in Region II. This is part of the Thunder vision - elite player development. Who else would they go to? And before people rally to the cry of "they should have come to us (the CCs), we could have worked together to do this without Bangu!", not one person out there has attempted to coordinate such undertaking. NOW some of you want in and feel you should have been involved? Come on.
Mnfutbol, this blog should be shut down for a while. Especially when there are accusations of illegal substance use thrown around. You can be held liable for slander here. Just a word of warning.
Talk to Tomass, find a way to run something new (like Big Soccer) with sign ups so you can deflect blame when it comes. You heard it hear first.
look at the hockey blog format - that is what I would like to see mn futbol. It would serve all levels of play and it allows the posters to create their own topic discussions under different categories.
I have asked them for the template and I'm still waiting to hear back.
I can tell you that blog does not get as petty as this blog does. I thought it would be worse. I was wrong
You are wrong. The Fire do not fully fund the older players in their academy. I can't speak to the read bulls, but I highly doubt it. If you are talking about a "reservers" squad that would be something different. But a "reservers squad" is certainly not a youth academy.
Tomass - will you please email me at mnfutbol@yahoo.com with a link to the template you are referring to? Thank you.
done mn futbol
I have followed this site for several months but have not contributed. This is our first year with Bangu and I would like to add some observations.
Our family have had three kids play soccer with our community club over a period of 18 years. Our only experience with aggressive recruiting came from other community clubs. Two suburban clubs, in particular, were especially obnoxious and in my daughter’s case her team lost six players in one year. It caused a lot of hard feelings. The Blackhawks and Bangu were never an issue.
My youngest child is the most gifted athlete. His coach (a college woman’s head coach and the CC director of coaching) told us that my son needed to move on. He suggested winter training that consisted of three days a week in a dome with other players who had superior talents. At no time did he mention a club that offered such a program and we were honestly unaware that such an option existed. After a couple of phone calls we discovered that Bangu and the Blackhawks, among others, had such a format.
We contacted both. Bangu returned the call immediately but we never heard back from the Blackhawks despite two calls and a couple of emails. Bangu’s simple message was, “Your son is welcome to try out.”
Well, he did, and made the blue team.
Let me repeat this. We were not “IDed” and we initiated the contact after our community coach encouraged us to seek a better opportunity.
My son is now not the fastest or the most skilled player on the team – far from it. He is with a group of young men that are very serious about soccer – seldom does anyone miss practice. He has really had to work to prove that he belongs and, as a result, has improved more in the past three months than all of last year.
The coaching has simply been outstanding. He runs a very tight ship and obviously enjoys teaching the game. It has been an eye- opener to see how kids can respond to someone that demands superior performance, while at the same time not asking them to do something that they are unable to accomplish.
If Bangu kicked my kid off the team tomorrow, we would consider this time well spent. My son is learning a lot and not all of it has to do about soccer.
BTW, I am not a MA apologist and wouldn’t know who he was if I tripped over him.
6:26, very nice post. Even-handed and honest. Much appreciated. My only regret is that my kids' club, Blackhawks, dropped the ball. Please keep contributing because articles like this are why some of us keep coming here notwithstanding the pathology underlying many of the posts.
My son also just finished his first year at Bangu. I would like to agree with anon 6:26. It has been a great experince with great kids and coaching. He played for a great CC but is getting better coaching and training with Bangu. I also have not a clue who MA is or what he does.
As much as a monster as he is made out to be on this site you think I would have seen an eight foot tall zombie looking thing eating small cleated childern when I pick up my son at the Rosemeont Dome or Holy Angles but all I see is kids playing soccer.
I love how this place goes dead quiet as soon as sensible people start posting. Such posts do not suit the interest of the majority here it would seem
perhaps the "word of warning" had something to do with it.
Of all the crazies on here (the Bangu haters, the SSM haters, the CC haters, the MA haters, etc.), my favorites are the parents who justify meddling with their kids' coaches' decisions. I also enjoy reading those who defend their stalking of try-outs and practices. Yes I am a parent, and yes I am also a coach. There is nothing like being a coach to help one understand how much parents "care." Bless the kids who can communicate and make decisions for themselves notwithstanding these people.
Wow, i was expecting something more creative, "stalking" please. Sitting and watching practice or tryouts doesnt make you a nut, or controling. When I coached it didnt bother me when parents watched but yet I had nothing to hide. Do some parents take it to far, yes. Do the same percentage of coaches take it to far, also yes. When was the last time you saw a screaming, swearing coach. I see one once a year. I also saw just one screaming parent last year (other than cheering/screaming).
anon 3:12 here again.
Im done with this blog - I know no big loss. Good luck on the pitch.
anon 312 - you will be missed.
So, do we just skip ahead now, ignore this minute in time thus retiring anon312's slot permanently or do we look for a replacement?
Will this affect daylight savings or Greenwich Mean Time at all?
No direct disrespect to you anon 312, or is it 313? I just like to pick on the anon title itself.
Continue to enjoy the game
I set aside some time last night to look deep within my heart and soul in order to consider the ramifications of my intention to leave this blog. After careful thought and consideration I have come to the conclusion that I cannot let down the numerous readers who value the opinion of anonymous 3:12. In light of this revelation, I will continue to post and share my valuable insights to all. Thank you and I will field no further questions on this issue.
Anon 8:46 am, glad to hear it.
'anon 420' (obscure humor) seems to have taken over some of the recent rants.
mellow out dude....
Thunder/Bangu super club is on the rocks (do not believe the latest e-mail, which was designed to deflect another round of criticism due when the clubs meet with MYSA: Thunder/Bangu not invited!). Thunder meeting at MYSA was a debacle. Oh, and I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Thungu is a done deal and will happen. The only question is which community clubs will join in. It will probably happen outside of MYSA as 2:34 noted.
Why is some folks get sooo worked up over something they have no control over. As with any youth sports club....volunteer or shut up.
Thunder deal on the rocks? I don't think so. Some people actually see the writing on the wall when it comes to talented players' development.
If the Thunder and Bangu didn't look to combine/merge/acquire/whatever, Minnesota would fall further behind the curve as many other region 2 clubs are partnering for the benefit of the elite players (Mich Hawks and Wolves, Eclipse and Team Chicago, and St Louis SC, Metro, and Scott Gallagher). The only thing that will stop a truly cooperative effort as proposed by the Thunder are the narrow-minded, selfish people like many of the posters on this blog.
4:26pm, Amen brother!!
I hope it's not on the rocks. There are a lot of personality issues on both sides. Now's not the time to let feelings get in the way of the decision-making process. I don't think the program sells itself for every club, but it meshes well with where some clubs might want to go.
Mark, what about the rumor that the Bangu players will get special treatment during tryouts for the new Academy teams . . . true or false?
Regardless of what happens, it will be what it will be. Why put the cart before the horse? Do people really think that passionate kids will stay with a lackluster program? They will go to the training...some clubs provide, some don't. Go to the place where your kid will benefit the most. Keep in mind, you get what you pay for.
i'llbrtback - OK, I typed up a lengthy response, then decided I better wait on it until things settle a bit before posting. I have no problem in responding in detail and will in time.
Suffice it to say that players tryout each and every fall to make teams in all clubs. It wouldn't be in the best interest of the majority of the players involved, or in the best interest of any program and that program's vision, to guarantee placement prior to evaluations to any player, regardless of past year's club affiliation.
Why should Bangu/Thunder be the be all end all of Mn. players.I'm not sure that they have the coaching know how or people in place.
This is really a case of domination,certain people at Bangu are not getting the total domination they desire so want to team with the Thunder to do it.
Who are the Coaches going to be?To be honest,Mn. is very short of top level Coaches and if playing for the Thunder makes you a Coach then,,,,eat my hat!
Each of the Blue team coaches at Bangu have been successful at a number of different levels. I think that there are other great coaches out there and many of them have been offered opportunities to coach at Bangu, so Bangu is not totally at fault for not having some of the other top notch coaches. I trust that the Blue team coaches at Bangu can develop my daughter and teach her lessons about soccer and about life.
6:57, Domination? That's crazy talk. Bangu wants total domination? Get your facts straight. How about giving your kid the best chance to learn the game. If your CC can provide that, wonderful. There is nothing wrong with community clubs. The great coaches don't always go to Bangu. If Thungu or whatever it's called puts together the best program in our state, you will see kids and coaches get on board. They will need to earn my business as would any other club in this town.
Well, ok then, whose on board? I have heard only rejection of the concept(in spite of the constant re-writing of the proposal i.e. pre-placement of bangu players outlined above), and the clubs bangder approached met the other night to collectively gag on the proposal before MYSA officials. Rumor has it that MYSA might drop their support of the Thunder. The bangder elite were clearly horrified that they were excluded, and each new spit shine of this madness is less credible (which is saying something!). Please send us the long list of clubs you have on board (I dare you, but we all know it will just be more invective and evasive talk). Reality bites, huh?
my gut tells me that they (thunder/bangu) will do this whether the other cc's are on board or not. they haven't won 15 state cups over the last two years by standing still and worrying wether the cc's care or not.
The only ones on board are Bangu. The only ones who've rejected it are... no one. CC boards need time to make a decision like this.
Anyone have details on the Monday meeting. I've heard it was fairly productive. Did all the clubs decide to band together and kill the idea?
If MYSA ditches their support of the MN pro team because of differences on elite player development issues, I say not one single MYSA decision maker deserves to represent MN soccer for one more minute. You can't claim to represent all when you ignore the higher level players or don't give those players the environment to best develop. Don't anyone dare say "ODP" either.
MYSA will also open the door and roll out the red carpet for competing league and soccer organizations that will once and for all be completely fed up with ignorant decision makers claiming to work in the best interest of the entire MN soccer community. So maybe their rejection will be a good thing for this state.
Should MYSA decide to support the Thunder in this, there is still no guarantee that it will be successful. Key clubs need to get involved but IMO there are simply too many egos involved on the club side of things for this to work. I hope it does - but if not it was a great try.
so let's see, the Woodbury Inferno are U16, so in a few more years, I predict that every girls state cup championship and almost every boys state cup championship will be won by either bangu/thunder (or maybe ssm at the oldest age)......but the cc's will dominate the MN premier league (lol).
There is no doubt in my mind that we will soon see competing leagues forming to counter the increasing ineptitude of MYSA. Instead of having one large inept organization, Little Mia, Little Landon and their parents will have several to choose from. All will be eager to collect money.
"ODP" will be short for "Our Daily Payments."
I keep reading about "new leagues, new leagues" but other than the fact that it might not be run by MYSA, what would be the incentive or motivation to change (unless for many that is the incentive/motivation)? Are the teams going to be any different? Are they going to stop the exodus to MRL? How will this improve player development? They seem more like a panacea than a true remedy or improvement. There is also very little on the horizon in regards to new elite level development or player identification. Until the USSF moves away from ODP (which is where virtually 95%-100% of the youth national teams come from) not much is going to change. The USSP academies seem to have a foothold on the boys side, but not sure the feasibility of them on the girls side. Someone please help me understand....
2:39 MA; 3:39 MA. So, let's see here: The question was, "Who's on board?" Uh, no one other than bangu. So, you're waiting for them to come around? You're looking a little blue (not thunder or bangu blue, either) in the face. Breathe! Breathe! I also like the pejorative defiance of saying that they will either come around or MYSA and all of the clubs who reject this will lose out and are dumb for failing to get on board. The more you say...Did you ever stop to think that you're talking about an awful lot of people saying you're not doing the right thing? Who's out there jumping on the thungu wagon? MYSA?, more than a hundred soccer clubs?, doc's across the metro?, boards across the metro?...Who's on board? It's like, "Who's on first?" : )
Here's one for you: How many state cups would bangu have without MYSA? No fair! No fair!
somewhere, somehow, Bangu and/or MA must have done "ishkebible" wrong. the posts are filled with such deep rooted anger or it's 11:59pm and the "liquid courage" had kicked in.
peopel like 11:59 just can't see it. That's ok. You don't have a kid who would benefit from it, you're not in a club who can get involved and stands to lose players, you just don't believe in it, that's ok. Why though try and undermine it? Becuase it's set up at the older age groups to cater to the best MN has to offer? You're the same person who complains that your kids school has gifted and talented programs.
Check out SSM Signing Day piece on You Tube...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v5KoIpv_ozI
I like the decision pending players on the boys side - Miles Lacey, Vasilios Kryakoplis, etc. Will be interesting to see where they 'sign'
I am sure the girls bloggers will go nuts on the Winona State accomplishment
We might need another warning here. I think 11:59 just got slandered! I love the fact that MA just can't let it go. Oh, and to 11:59's question, who's actually joining this venture? I, too, heard it's DOA. So, does that mean that all of the dumb, jealous people are too smart and happy where they are? That's all right, beat them down some more. Then they'll like you better for sure!
Oh, and I think the blind people are seeing too well to join up, too. Who does that leave?
I'm not with the Thunder or Bangu. I think before we CC's get too worked up congratulating ourselves that no CCs are on board with the Thungoo plan we should listen carefully. That sucking sound we hear in the coming years is the sound of many of our best players being attracted to the new Thungoo program.
blunder...you just don't get it do you?
As I sit here at the Mendota Heights Caribou sipping my latte on a beautiful MN morning I thought I’d chime in on the Thunder Academy discussion. I’ve been a frequent reader of this blog and this will be my first post, albeit quite lengthy. Tomass will let me know if I should have posted this on another site and provided a link to it =-)
I have sat in on the Thunder presentation and think I have a good idea about what they are trying to do. I have seen both ends of the CC spectrum with a child at the Premier level and another playing C2. Hopefully this post will provide some clarity to people who haven’t yet been exposed directly to the Thunder’s thoughts.
I will say straight up that I believe in what they are doing. They want to begin to cater to the elite players at the older ages (u13 and above) in order to help Minnesota take the next step forward in player development. Amos says that he constantly gets questions about the lack of Minnesota players on the Thunder roster. His answer is that we, as a state, and not doing enough to develop the top level kids. IMO, the Thunder feel they are in the best position now (with new owners who are not focused on generating a revenue stream from a Thunder-run youth system) to unite key Minnesota soccer clubs and personnel behind this vision. I agree with this completely. There is not one club in the area who can boast all the top players as well as the coaches needed to develop this talent. Bangu has tried, but Bangu is not there. MYSA’s attempt at elite player development is ODP and the Minnesota Premier league, neither of which can offer what the Thunder can potentially pull together.
The Thunder’s approach to us though is more than just about elite player development. They are offering all the members of their potential “Affiliate” clubs a connection with the pro players (and the Lightning). They want to use this connection to help increase the passion for the game in our area to those interested - by hosting exhibition games in our area, offering to help with our own club’s training and camps, offering all our club members tickets to their games, offering to dedicate players to our club to use as we see fit, etc. This is the first time the Thunder have come to us to offer something. In the past it’s always been “support our camps” and “buy our tickets”. The change is refreshing.
The Thunder propose that their affiliate clubs host Thunder Regional Academies for the u9 to u12 age groups. The regional academies would be open to any interested player regardless of current ability, similar to how MA has promoted the Bangu Academy program. There is no talk of elite at the younger age groups, only interest. The Thunder would then look to pull the true cream of the crop from all regional academies and from non-Thunder programs to the Thunder Elite Academy at the u13 age group.
It is a really solid plan - benefitting all our players and our club while we in turn serve as a magnet club in our district for talented young players who can be identified and developed for the Thunder elite programs at older age groups. I did say the Thunder regional academies would be open to all, but the thought is that it would include the more talented players who likely show more interest in the game.
However, it will be a difficult sell. We (the seven potential affiliate clubs) met at the MYSA office this past Monday to discuss. I believe everyone sees what the Thunder are trying to do for the elite players, but instead of people looking to make this work there was more talk about the problems and why this shouldn’t work.
There are too many people hung up on the Bangu aspect of this as well. Just look at this blog with jibes of Banger and Thungu. I think it is important for people to understand that sometimes in order to go forward, the past needs to be left behind. Multiple clubs have the chance to be involved in this new venture, to help shape it.
Somehow, the Thunder have convinced the Bangu club to dissolve. Don’t ask me how this happened but it is what it is. If all the clubs bail then what is left? Bangu, bigger and better than ever, now with all the benefits of ties to the state’s pro team. People have a chance to get involved and move this state forward as more of a collective rather than one club saying give us your best players and we’re not giving anything back a la Bangu or the new Thunder Academy with only Bangu backing it.
I heard a rumor late this week that MYSA suspended their sponsorship of the Thunder effective immediately because the Thunder were thinking about delving into the youth development sector beginning as early as this coming August. That’s a real shame. MYSA is ready to give up support of Minnesota’s professional team because they don’t agree with the Thunder’s ideas on youth development. MYSA is effectively stating that they don’t see the benefit to the game as a whole that having a local pro team brings. Or they do grasp the benefit to Minnesota soccer but are willing to forego this benefit to the masses because the Thunder is looking to address the development of the minority. It was stunning to hear this if true. Anyone else hear anything?
I’m sure it’s clear how I feel about this. I think it’s a long shot to get buy in from all the clubs approached which is too bad. I feel there are just way too many egos (both soccer professionals and current board members) to make it work. However, we did receive an email last week that said the Thunder met with MYSA and MYSA suggested to open up the affiliate club status to all MYSA clubs via an application process. It will be interesting to see if the clubs not initially approached by the Thunder show interest if club’s like mine choose to go our own way.
Regardless, kudos to the Thunder for attempting this. I for one, hope you have the resolve to stay the course here. If we’re out this year there is nothing saying we don’t revisit this in the near future. You’ve got us, and many other clubs, thinking. Me and my family will continue to support the team as we work to attend a handful of games each year. Best of luck in your new direction!
Which clubs are the "potential seven affiliate clubs"? If any or all of them don't buy in to this, will other CC clubs be approached? Doesn't the Thunder want all CC clubs involved?
The clubs, roughly speaking, approached were: EP, WDBRY, Wings, MU, Blackhawks, Dakota Rev,and I believe Maplebrook. The idea here was that they wanted to get a spectrum of representation across the metro. The reality, even their leadership have admitted, is that it's a pretty vague combination of friends of the Thunder or bangu leadership, facilities availability, and some effort to draw in a couple of bigger clubs.
The clubs left out, it goes almost without saying, include: St. Croix, Lakeville, PSA, Edina, Tonka, WBL, Burnsville, Eagan, NSSA, and other large local clubs. This list alone gives an idea of the lack of effort to reach out to the community at large - a major mistake by the Thunder.
906,
While I can appreciate your perspective, I think you're missing some of the major points of concern here.
First, to simply say that bangu will go away is naive and short-sighted. MA and company are not about to give up their perch and particularly their perceived rights to coin. That's why the so-called youth academies are so important to the proposal. Rather than having to recruit kids into their program, this proposal passes the burden to the affiliate clubs to recruit, coach, and provide facilities for the teams. The version of the program that I last heard about placed no limit on the number of teams the academies can field at the younger levels. That would provide money (a lot of money) for the Thunder, and particularly for MA and his boys. Your comment made it sound as if this was a win-win for the cc's, and as if MA is perhaps doing this out of the good of his heart. There is much more to it: This would make his life easier by passing much of the work burden off to others. In addition, bangu's struggle to attract sufficient high-level coaches would end as the clubs would provide them (thinning the pool of quality coaches for the cc's) and the facility crunch would be alleviated by targeting clubs like DR, which can provide a dome (potentially at the expense of community programs).
Kids who play in the academies would not register with MYSA (purportedly to avoid pummeling community teams in league play). They would also not be registered with their clubs, all of which would hurt MYSA leagues in both quality and funding for the of programs the organization provides for the state.
Unfortunately, the Thunder missed a grand opportunity to embrace the community as a whole through their new ownership. By pulling bangu in bed with them, they have managed to offend most of the clubs in the area and MYSA, too.
The most basic common sense would say that since the Thunder need to make money, they should build a wide and strong base. Bangu is the antithesis of the vehicle needed for this (something MA acknowledged at MYSA when he admitted that his club has a bad reputation in the community).
The final note here is to look at both history and the future. To say that this would get rid of bangu and replace it with something better is not guaranteed. Specifically, cc's should not jump to the conclusion that anything is better. The fact that this model has changed so many times in just a few weeks is a clue to how MA and company work. What you are being told is a diluted version of what you may want to hear, but handing this group the power to dominate the community is opening the door to all kinds of potential trouble. Again, with all due respect to MA, he needs to be at the center and have his way and he is very willing to burn bridges and turn on people to get what he wants. His program provides great soccer training, but there has always been the asterisk (I can't wait to hear his response to this...) that it is his training and his team and he can change the rules in an instant (and has). The unlimited nature of the younger academy proposal is a warning sign, and cc's need to be very careful what they wish for if they contemplate coming around on this. The so-called big egos and parent boards should not be written off so easily: Many have first hand experience in working with these people and are legitimately concerned for their welfare of their players and programs.
There have been a lot of words written on this forum concerning the Thunder proposal. It can all be distilled to a couple of sentences:
There are those who wish to identify and develop elite players.
There are others who say you will do it over our dead body.
It is really that simple.
11:26 - I'm sure if and when MA wants to respond it will be under his own sign in name (not under your misguided belief that he changes his name to suit the post - for that people need to look in the mirror).
This will be my second to last visit and post to this site (until I receive an email from mnfutbol or Tomass letting me know the format has changed). I'm not afraid of debate, but this is not debate. Should you want to continue to throw jabs in my face, feel free to email me at your leisure to continue discussions.
In the end of the day, the Thunder initiative will be a very good thing for this state. It may not happen as initially planned this year, but it will happen. Those who think this is a money making scheme of some sorts have no idea about the financial resources the Thunder now possess. Time will bring all this to light.
Our Thunder Academy proposal has changed dramatically since mid December, thanks to the combined contributions, thoughts, and suggestions from multiple community coaching directors and board members. It's been a true pleasure to sit down with people from many different clubs as we looked to continually tweak and perfect this organic initiative.
In it's current form, it would be a model youth development system in the US and I would hope that some of the people who helped shape it over these last two months get a chance to see some direct benefit in the near future. Should clubs choose otherwise, then so be it. Could it be a great thing if certain clubs join at the onset? No doubt in my mind.
We've reached a point in MN soccer where one club by itself is not the answer to the development of the top level player. What is needed is cooperation and collaboration between multiple clubs to benefit the elite. The Thunder are trying to do this while also offering benefits to the club masses who aren't a part of the Academy system.
Some call us crazy, but we are not unique in this quest as a dozen MLS teams have formed youth systems, and nearly half of the USL first division teams (the league the Thunder are part of) have begun down the same path. Nearly 20 youth systems across the US affiliated or managed by professional organizations, none would be set up (with multiple clubs) like we are trying to do here.
It's not only professional organizations that are leading this movement. Three HUGE clubs in St Louis, a perennial soccer hotbed in the US, have agreed to join forces in the best interest of the elite players. Two of these clubs absolutely hated each other until they were brought to the same table. Past baggage was left behind as they all looked to the future together. We are trying to do something similar here.
Regardless of the eventual make up of the Thunder Academy, it's been a positive and productive two months for many involved, both on the Thunder end as well as within many of the clubs. I think this would be agreed upon even by people in clubs who may not vote in favor of supporting this.
Though I really can feel the love on here most of the time, it's good to hear from obama and cc guy that there are key decision makers in the clubs who do see this vision. Mark my words, we are on the path towards something special here with the Thunder.
Best of luck to all. I know I'll be sorely missed... :)
3:58PM - MA
Do all the cc's that were approached have year round facilities (domes)? Perhaps they were looking mostly at the ones that could provide the venues versus truly looking for a "spectrum of representation"?
So it seems that we have the visionaries and vision less here.
I have read arguments on both sides and agree with MA on this point,and believe it is the main point to be made, "We've reached a point in MN soccer where one club by itself is not the answer to the development of the top level player. What is needed is cooperation and collaboration between multiple clubs to benefit the elite."
So why not embrace a genuine effort to raise the bar in Minnesota. Those that comment on the negative side of the debate I would suggest that you become part of the process if you are so passionate. It seems to me that the overall idea is on target, and as with any project involving many organizations a great deal of tweaking is required both before the launch of this program and after it get started. Does it really matter that Bangu is involved? If some CC's that were not invited into the initial meetings want to get involved I would bet that the academy would welcome them if not now, then in the near future after the program is up and running, which it seems will happen regardless. I think that the program will succeed without the CC's or MYSA but it would accelerate MN into a higher level of soccer if they were on board.
Wow,
That's a high road post from MA - goo(d) for him.
Back to the question at hand: Which clubs have joined?
does it really matter whether it is 0 cc's or 15 cc's? They are going to do it, they most likely will be successful, their players will improve (the main reason), and more players will continual to migrate over to be a part of it. If the thought process is "it must be wrong if no one else agrees", then you might want to look at their players/teams successes over the past few years. In many ways the same argument has been made about that club for several years.
If i were the new thunder owners, i will put my energy into making the "real" thunder successful and wingames on the field. This youth stuff is brutal and I know we all have good intentions but as a former season ticket holder, I have yet to see the Thunder produce a winning team since days of old. I can't imagine the MN professional team with new ownership dablling with crippled cc.
Please produce a good soccer team with talent and the rst will follow.
Where we struggle in MN is not the lack of visionaries, is the lack of intentines to make tough decisions and put our money where our mouths are.
I hear the Thunder has new ownership, new stadium and new talent. Come September, we need to see Thunder with talented on the field. Who cares if Thunder merges with Bangu or gets many cc together. Win the USL title and we will support the initiatives.
Yes, 10:26 - it does matter how many clubs are involved. First off, as near as I can understand the model, the more buy in around the area, the better it will be for everyone involved. Second, without the involvement of cc's, this just becomes bangu in Thunder clothing. It doesn't seem like that is the goal here.
Big takeover (or whatever your morphing moniker is) - so are you for it or against it?
THANK YOU 3:08! If the Thunder do not put a winning team on the field, the rest of this is pointless.
Salaries are supposedly tripling in some cases and players who used to be able to skate through and remain with the team are now being told that their workrate has to go up and that nobody's position is guaranteed. Including the coach's.
Have to agree with obama....have a kid who plays premier and one who doesn't. While they both love playing soccer, they both have different priorities and goals they want to reach in regards to the game. One obviously plays for Bangu and one plays for a Community Club. One has not encountered any problems from other parents or peers the other would just as soon go to SSM (not in our budget tho)and forgo all they crap they have gotten from peers and local coaches alike. Guess which is which. The point here is who cares where your child gets thier training from, I believe it should only matter to the kid on the pitch and the parents paying for it.
I couldnt agree more BMom.
My "phenom" is so burnt out training 4+ days a week year round that at U14 wants to go back to playing community soccer with her friends at C2 or quit altogether. And she is not the only one out there that feels that way. There is another side to this academy concept, total burn out before high school.
True burn out does happen but others can't seem to get enough, as bangumon alluded to, you've got to make the right choice for your child and family. The Thunder Academy may happen or not, in the end it won't attract every high level player because some will make other choices for various reasons (enjoy playing with friends from school, multi-sport athlete, or Mom and Dad just can't get them to it).
6:03pm, That is true, but kids from CC's, Elite Clubs, College's, they all leave for what ever reason. Why do you try to make SSM seem like its the only place this stuff takes place at?
Proof...Nikki Thaden, University of Texas, All-American, U20 Natl Team starter, All Big-12 yada yada yada..She just up and quit after her Soph year and dropped out of UT. A year later she went back to school at Drake and finished her degree and also played. These things happen all the time. So your point is what?? If players at any club, school, or team are not happy, should they stay?
I just watched the 16s play Friday PM. Im sure you must of been there right? Since your so in the know? The team looked fine to me, they played well, you can tell they have been training during the winter. Oh and by the way, do you happen to know their spring schedule?? They are almost done for the year. Burn Out? Nah, didnt think so. Oh yea, Spring break is in a few weeks, almost 3 weeks long, Last I checked all the kids are going home for break.
Proof....Burn out? There are a few others that will be guest playing this spring/summer doing State Cup, Manchester Cup, Vegas showcase during Spring Break, Region II ODP camp, Burn out? Some of these players thrive on this stuff.
Iv given some examples, Please if you have any examples please post. If no proof then please try to refrain from posting rumors and or lies.
LOL 2:25 I think 6:03 was referring to the Bangu Academy. Nice paranoid defensive rant though.
what are there....maybe 30 girls playing soccer at SSM? this blog gets postings from what.....a minimum of 6-8 different SSM parents. That must be the highest parent:daughter blog ratio in the world (lol). one word....vicariously.......
2:25 pm
Dont look now but your raw nerve is showing. Dial back the caffeine
Now THAT was funny.
yea, I should of known, Shattuck trains 5x a week.
Look folks, this is getting a little out of hand. Let's let the S-SM people in on the joke.
The regulars on this blog have conspired to poke a stick in the eye of the Shattuck folks just to see the reaction.
Boy are you guys gullible -- and funny!!
Not all of us SSM parents are gullible 5:29, nor is it funny.
What is sad about all of this is that some believe they need to regress to junior high-level garbage whether its cheap shots at SSM, Bangu or whomever.
A number of people I know from outside of Minnesota (some are SSM parents, some are not) lurk in here on occasion and they all say pretty much the same thing: it does not make youth soccer in the state, its clubs or its teams look good.
I suspect the other blogs ceased operating at least partially due to the owners spending a lot of time deleting garbage. I can't say I blame them either for their respective decisions to euthanize their own blogs.
I hope it does not come to that here.
Don't know which team out there trains 4+ times a week but it certainly isn't a Bangu team. My point 6:03 was IT IS ABOUT WHAT THE KID WANTS and what you as a family can afford. No poking at SSM, know some pretty good players who go there. So if your kid is saying they want out of whatever system they are in perhaps you should listen to them.
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