Since the girls blog shut down, I haven't heard much about the girls team winter tournament plans. Please use this post to let us all know how the MN girls teams are performing at Winter events.
Bangu 91/92 Blue 12/27 Bangu vs TSF Academy Lynx (NJ) 12/28 Bangu vs Vincent United Valor 91 (PAE) 12/29 Bangu vs SYC Galaxy (VA)
WSC Eclipse 12/27 WSC Eclipse vs Madison 56ers (WI) 12/28 WSC Eclipse vs London Supernova (Canada) 12/29 WSC Eclipse vs Rochester Jr Rhinos (NYE)
Bangu Tsunami Select 12/27 Bangu Select vs JYSC Fury Green (FL) 12/28 Bangu Select vs Patriots FC 91 (NYE) 12/29 Bangu Select vs Montgomery FC Santos (MD)
Bangu Tsunami 89/90 White 12/27 Bangu vs Albertson Milan Fury (NYE) 12/28 Bangu vs Patriots FC 89/90 (NYE) 12/29 Bangu vs East Ridge Express 90 (TN)
TC Fire 90 12/27 Fire vs Darlington Soccer Academy (GA) 12/28 Fire vs Manatee Magic (FL) 12/29 Fire vs West Pasco FC Thunder (FL)
the put players in front of college coaches for the purpose of evaluation. its window shopping for scouts. lets make it even more simple... to SHOWCASE talent for prospecting coaches.
Very few teams at lower tier tourneys such as Orange Classic are ranked. Most also do not have much of a track record outside of their state. This makes any seeding attempt more guesswork than anything else.
Woodbury Inferno U16s and Bangu's U15 Blues in their respective age group finals at Disney. Not top flight but still good showings by both teams. Not sure what happened to Bangu's U17s and U18s. I would think both would have liked better results though both are playing in top flights.
I am sure both these team feel good about their performance. I am also quite sure that they they feel like they can also compete in the top flight of major tourneys like Disney. Hopefully this performance on the resume will ensure they get that opportunity in the future. As the best MN has in their age groups they should be in top flights.
Interestingly enough, the same Rochester team you are happy to have tied-- the S-SM U16s handled pretty easily with guest players (and three starters missing due to injury) on Saturday November 3rd.
Looks like there may be some quality competition to be had "in-State" if you'd just travel to Faribault.
Woodbury U16s did not tie any teams at Disney, and has not played Rochester. The posting of the strong results at Disney were not intended to reflect poorly upon SSM or relate in any way to SSM (with or without injuries).
anon 143 if youre trying to stir something up with true minnesota teams, you should, at the very least, make sure that you have your info right....woodbury eclipse tied #33 rochester rhinos of new york and not the rochester lightening of missouri...nice try though
Woodbury did not play 4 nationally ranked teams. There tie was against a ranked team. The other games were meaningless as they are just good C1 caliber teams. I will give them kudos for the tie againts the ranked team though.
The following teams are listed as accepted for the Las Vegas College Showcase tournament in March U13G Bangu Blue U14G Bangu Blue U15G Bangu Blue U16G WSC Inferno U17G Bangu Tsunami Stars
SSM ODP Festival ends up with MN 92s looking like the cream of the crop. SSM U16s lost all of our games, but all were competitive games that were good to watch. Worst performance was vs. NE '92s. I believe that the MN 92s won all three matches, but not certain.
I, for one, really liked the brand/style of play shown by the MN 92s. Very fast play....
they never tell which team... which is why they just list Bangu instead of Bangu WHITE. Like last year they had on their schedule wins over FC Milwaukee, but didn't indicate that it was FCM's THIRD TEAM. Typicall SSM.
OT but it appears MDW will do better recruiting the state this year. According to soccer buzz she has landed the top 3 players off the Bangu 18 team in TS,JS and SE, as well as arguably the states top recruit in CP. Only one in top five she lost is KB to NW. We will have to see if this is enough to make them competitive for the top of the conference.
gg I will agree with that. On the other hand Turner and Wepking, part of the much praised class of 2006, have transferred to Marquette. I hear Green is leaving also but cannot confirm that.
the rochester team shattuck girls defeated on nov. 3 were from michigan and not state cup winners the rochester team wsc tied at orange is u17 new york west state cup winners , they had two division one midfielders that are going to maryland. dont think ssm u16 could complete on that level yet,
gg your assessment looks accurate to me. I would differ only in that MDW went 3 for 5 IMO as I would include LK (Cal-Davis)in the top 5 instead of one of the gopher recruits you listed. All good players though, including the ones elastico mentioned. I am concerned that she did not get any out of state players, at least none are listed so far on buzz. Does anyone know of any? How about where some other Mn players are going that have yet to be listed?
Signing day is next Wednesday and all questions will be answered. One thing you can be sure of is that every program will be "very excited" to sign an "excellent class" that contains the "top player(s) from the state of ..."
Since it is quiet does anyone have an opinion on the top girls three girls teams U11 - U19. This is much more interesting than what we have been seeing. I also expect no response because we are not beating up on Bangu or SSM.
Don't know about some of the younger ages (other than I believe Bangu probably has at least one if not two of the top three), but here's my guess on the others....
U14 Bangu Blue Wayzata Bangu White
U15 Bangu Blue EP Wayzata/Woodbury
U16 Woodbury Bangu Blue (a distant second) PSA
U17 Bangu Blue Wings Woodbury
U18 Bangu Blue SSM Tonka
U19 SCV ???????
I doubt any of this comes as a big surprise. Up and coming teams.....Woodbury U17's, Bangu U16's, and then either Wayzata or Woodbury U15's.
Articles about some of the MN kids who have signed per soccer buzz. Some schools have not posted yet, and some girls commitments are not yet posted. Quite a contingent going to be bison.
Las Vegas Mayor’s Cup Feb 16-18 U17 Girls Plymouth Strikers #1 vs. Impact United Black (UT) W 1-0 #2 vs. Calgary Foothills Athletics (CND) L 0-1 #3 vs. Placer United Prestige 91 (CAN) T 0-0 Consolation vs. Plainfield Legends Elite (IL) T 0-0
U16 Girls Golden Valley Phoenix Firebirds #1 vs. El Dorado Eclipse 92 (CAN) T 1-1 #2 vs. Carmel United Premier 92 (IN) L 0-3 #3 vs. Impact United White (UT) L 0-2 Consolation vs. Edmonton West Raiders (CND) W 3-2
Lakeville Rebels #1 vs. Littleton United White (CO) L 0-2 #2 vs. La Roca WR (UT) L 0-2 #3 vs. California Nike Rush 92 (CAN) L 0-2 Consolation vs. Arizona Rush 92 Nike (AZ) L 0-1
Bangu Tsunami White #1 vs. Neusport FC Green (NV) #32 R4 L 0-6 #2 vs. Calgary Foothills Irish (CND) L 0-2 #3 vs. Utah Rush Nike (UT) T 0-0 Consolation vs. Gilbert 92 Arsenal Classic (AZ) L 0-1
Blackhawks Force #1 vs. Nazareth Thunderhawks (PAE) T 1-1 #2 vs. Placer United Prestige 92 (CAN) L 0-1 #3 vs. Gilbert 92 Arsenal Classic (AZ) W 2-0 Consolation vs. Calgary Foothills Irish (CND) W 1-0
Thoughts?Seems in general a lack of goalscoring from the teams,perhaps the Mn teams lack some creativity and might be to much meat and potato not enough salsa?
8:57 - there are a variety of reasons that teams travel.....different/better competition, identification of strengths/weaknesses, bonding/chemistry, toughening due to dealing with unique and different experiences, fun, etc..., but in all honesty my opinion and yours really don't matter. I guess you would have to ask the players, parents, and coaches if it was worth it.
Do you believe the coaches care much what the parents think? Take any of the reasons you have stated and tell me you couldnt have found any of that information by playing an older aged team locally. I do not believe it is about development but reputation of the coaches or clubs pushing these out of state trips.
2:38 - as I stated before, my opinion doesn't really matter. Maybe yours does. The teams are listed above and coaches can be easily identified so feel free to give them a call.
2:51 Head in the sand kind a guy are you? I thought this was a forum for discussion. Should we go back to bashing SSM or Bangu, perhaps you will feel at home then. If you have an opinion then out with it - enough wishy washy.
I believe I stated my opinion previously back on 2/20 at 9:58am - nothing has changed and obviously my thoughts are different than yours. Really nothing to debate. Maybe someone else will bite.
23 girls going on to play D1 soccer next year per soccer buzz and many more at D2 and D3. Not bad for supposedly such a backward state. Congratulations to all.
Good Luck to the Minnesota Teams playing in the Las Vegas College Showcase March 14 – 16 Schedule and NSR Rankings
U13 Girls Bangu Tsunami Blue – Unranked FC Stars of Massachusetts United (MA) #29 Region I Neusport 95 Green (NV) #6 Nation - #2 Region IV Ohio Premier U13 Green (OS) #4 Nation - #1 Region II
U14 Girls Bangu Tsunami 93/94 Blue #24 Nation - #7 Region II FC Pennsylvania Strikers (PAE) #15 Nation - #3 Region I SO Cal Blues-Bolger (CAS) #26 Region IV Utah Avalanche 94 Premier (UT) #24 Region IV
U15 Girls Bangu Tsunami 93 blue (MN) #16 Region II La Roca Premier GA (UT) #40 Nation - #11 Region IV Pleasanton Rage u15 Premier (CAN) Region IV Girls ODP RIV 94G (USA) - ODP
U16 Girls WSC Inferno (MN) #24 Nation - #7 Region II Hurricane FC 92 Shubert (OK) #26 Nation - #7 Region III Leahi 93 Premier (HI) – Unranked? Real Hawaii Futbol 92G (HI) – Unranked?
U17 Girls Bangu Tsunami Stars (MN) #22 Nation - #6 Region II FC Bucks Vipers (PAE) #9 Nation - #2 Region I FC Delco 90s (PAE) #19 Region I PDA Pride (NJ) #33 Nation - #9 Region I
A quote from Randy Waldrum that should educate some parents who think that having their player make a national or regional ODP team somehow makes them better than their peers. I think we have seen a few on this site and others.
"Secondly, there are now so many good players that this country is producing. Ten years ago, there were a handful of really good players that all of the top programs were going for. If you weren’t on a national team, then getting to a top program was really difficult. Now, many players around the country can play for the top programs, as the difference between a national team player and a really good club or high school player is very small if any difference at all."
anon 3:29 - nice post, however, this is way too broad of a statement. Has the pool of talent gotten deeper - definitely. Are there players out there who could or should be on an ODP team - definitely, the talent difference between players 20-50 at a regional camp is probably very small. High school (especially here in MN) probably really shouldn't be included in the discussion. What are there - 30 kids on a regional ODP team? Being that there are over 250 kids vying for those spots, lumping players #1 through #250 is not accurate, as there is a significant differnce in both technical and tactical ability (and if you do not even make the state ODP team then the gap gets wider). I don't have any horses in this race, but as a coach, I can tell you there are reasons some make it, some don't, why some are better, and why some aren't. Some of it's physcial, some of it's mental.
Well said by Mr. Waldrum and the point is accurate. It has been stated before and is very true that making an ODP team means you are an excellent player. It does not make you necessarily any better a player than someone who did not. It is a very subjective process. The reaction of 4:04 is instructive as to the type of parent being mentioned.
This piece from Coach Waldrum is from an article about the pro and cons of early recruiting. Coach Ang Kelly, Jill Ellis, Anson and Waldrum all talked about it. Why dont you just post the link. Its not about National players v Highschool players. It appears that you cut and pasted the part that you wanted to make a point about.
I guess my question is what is the motivation for posting the quote in the first place? The natural reaction from anyone who reads it is that your child did not achieve some success or make some team and this quote somehow makes you feel better. I've also read the whole article and this is very selective journalism. Does making an ODP mean you are an excellent player - yes. It also means that in the coaches eyes (and there are many evaluations by multiple coaches) you are better than the vast majority. To just say "it does not make you necessarily any better a player than someone who did not" is too all encompassing. Maybe the few bubble kids, but not the rest. But if it helps you sleep at night.........
this is an old and tired thread that resurrects itself 2-3 times a year. it always starts with a parent stating that ODP kids aren't any better than non-ODP kids. next comes some opposite responses. it gets old. and I'm not sure why Nat/Reg team players are even drawn into the conversation. how many are there in the first place, maybe a dozen regional kids across 4 years of boys and girls (barely one per year) and you can count the national kids on one hand.
Anon 9:26-- by your post, I assume that you mean "whose kids are being trained by quality coaching staff and are able to widen the gap with those who are not". Wishful thinking, but you have to admit that at the older ages training is the key. And what really counts is who is identified for thier skills at U16, U17, U18...NOT who is bigger, faster, stronger at U11-U15.
ssm-sc: no, not at all. I was stating an opinion that those posts who believe that non-ODP kids are as good as ODP kids most likely have kids who are not OPD kids, while those who disagree with that line of thinking most likely have ODP kids. When it comes to coaching, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I will take quality over quantity any day. The best kids either have it or they don't. The ODP regional kids at WDB/BNG only train three, maybe 4 times top per week. Lots of training can make a good player better and a very good player even better, but if they don't have the speed, mind set, or vision, no amount of training will make a player great. Even then, who decides who is better than another? It is all very subjective.
anon 3:21-- Great post, I don't disagree with you in the slightest. My only point is that IF a player has the natural skill set needed, training by quality trainers is necessary to widening the gap to the next kid.
It is a total package, and many times people think that natural ability is the key ingredient. Unfortunately, many seem to forget about the training side of things until it is too late and thier child falls behind.
Championship game NTX 2 NJ 1. At least they lost to the eventual champion. Too bad they couldn't keep it more competitive. What players comprise that team? I would think mostly Bangu Stars and WSC Inferno players?
Rosters are on the National Championship web site. If you look at the 7-1 game, you will see that MN held the lead until the second half and then the goals appear to have all come within about 15 minutes.
ssm-sc: I agree with your response to my 3:21 post. You hit it right on the head by emphasizing the word "IF". Unfortunately, many parents (more than the players) either are too optimistic, too unrealistic, or even delusional in their child's abilities and then get disappointed when little Mia/Landon doesn't achieve some certain level of recognition. It should also be less about "widening the gap", but more about individual development. The measuring stick should be if they have improved, not if or how much better they are than the other guy (or gal). You do hit it right on the head about the need for quality training, but there are many viewpoints on how much is too much. At some point you reach a point of diminishing returns.
The bangu U14's were originally placed in second flight. They protested and were eventually moved into top flight but that may have goofed up the results page.
Some tournaments look more at your record against other top teams than titles you hold. As someone noted on another thread the region title was won without having to play any of the top regional teams. This due to a good draw, upsets in state cups and other region games, and the lack of MRL slots at U13. The Bangu team may have won anyway but the tournament directors may not have given them the credit they deserve because of these factors.
The U14 team did not play fall and because of that they did not get Midwest league premier status, as a result they where put in the second dlight. It was later corrected when the organizers realized that they where the regional champions. I got this info from MA and MC .
On a side note from what I have heard this tournament have great teams and great potential but it is run by a bunch of muppets. I heard that two teams even had to put the net's up on the goals before one of the games today.
14s first game was a draw 1-1, 2nd half they were lucky to not get scored on again. Total record is 0 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss 1 goal for, 3 against Seems like Bangu likes to kick it over the top. Is this the way the whole club is teached?
most bangu teams are heavier on possession. the U14's play a bit more "direct" (sounds better than over the top, hoof & hope, bootball, etc...). however, the longer balls are played up by the attacking midfield or are diagonal crosses. true bootball is often generated by the backline or defensive midfielders. also, if you are behind, playing more direct can be a necessity (and is very common) or if you are being pressured, then a more direct approach is often necessary to initiate a solid counterattack. watch the EPL one weekend and see how they counterattack.
9:57 - not sure if your rip of 9:51 is completely appropriate. I guess the question is name me a team that doesn't play this way at one time or another. I've seen true bootball where every ball into your defensive end is just kicked out long and I've also seen teams that link passes together out of the backfield and then play one long. I guess it is all semantics. The old USWNT coach played this way as does UNC (heaven forbid if I criticize Dorrance - blasphemy). The beauty of soccer is it is a game of reaction and the play on the field and the bounce of the dictates your reaction. If a long ball or bootball opportunity is there - you take it. If you must build by linking, then that is what you do.
Why is it that Inferno, with a similar ranking as the Bangu teams in Vegas, was not assigned some high level teams to play? I believe the best team they play is only #15 in Region 4. Long way to go and expensive to play in a showcase tourney to play teams of that caliber. This is a strangely run tournament.
1-4-1 for Bangu U13 and 14 in pool play. The only win came against a team which knew it had clinched winning their pool and rested key players. Better luck for U15 at 2-1-0 but as noted in a low flight. None of the teams advanced. Not good but hopefully the teams have learned and will improve.
This time of year is tough for Minnesota teams traveling to play teams from more southern climes. No matter how much you think training full field in a dome 3-4 times prepares you for outdoor matches it really doesn't. We see it every year at this time. But by mid-summer our teams seem to fare better against the same opponents. We truly are disadvantaged early in the year. No excuses however for performances from June thru August events.
Bangu 14s go 2-1-1 with the help of 2 Shattuck players playing in the middle together. Its nice to see 2 clubs getting along to do what is best for the players.
I wouldn't be too concerned about the Bangu 13's. This is the 1st time this age group in Minnesota has played 11 v 11. The competition they faced has experience at 11 v 11. This group will be a force come State Cup time.
Inferno and Stars both win their flights. The U13-15 teams went 2-0-1 in their consolation friendlies on Sunday so seemed to right the ship somewhat. On a side note regarding most of the top U15 and U16 teams being in a separate flight and playing their National League games. If this is the wave of the future, why would other quality teams go to these tournaments? Certainly not for the competition as it will not be good, it seems like the only motivation would be for college exposure. Is that enough?
most bangu teams play u13 when they are u12's in summer league play. this was the case for the now u13's. they have been playing 11v11 this winter in all their scrimmages. they got beat in vegas and it is not because they played 11v11!
For those of you who think that USCS is within light years of USYSA note the Vegas results of NORCAL Lamorinda, last years US Club U16 national champion. 0-3-1 with 3GF and 10 GA. They played in a lower flight with no ranked teams. USCS is at least 3 years away from being relevant.
anon 9:16, How many scrimmages did that U13 team have this winter? And how many of the players are the same as last years roster? Seems you have all the answers and are the local expert on this team so we'll wait for your response.
Nope, not a local expert. I just know how to get online. Fall NSC 11v11 12/1 13 vs. 14 green 12/14 13 vs. 14 white 1/11 13 vs. Eden Prairie 1/25 13 vs. 14 white 2/22 13 vs. Dakota Rev 14 3/2 13 vs. NSSA 14 3/5 13 vs. NSSA 14 Are the St. Cloud Friendlies 11v11? Is this not the team that went premier from last summer season playing up to 13 11v11?
The majority of the u13 girls team played on the East U12 team that earned a premier spot last year. A few where added from the South team (I think two) that played 8v8 last year. They also added a few players from outside clubs.
My team have played them 4 times since last May. By MN standards they are a very good U13 team, and when the girls and the coach get used to eachother and playing really good teams the results will come out of state as well. It is also important to remember that the teams they played in Vegas are very good teams, because a team lose to a very good team does not mean that they are a bad team.
The St Cloud friendlies are 11v11 and they did well.
Don't think it is fair to compare them to last years 13's each team and each age group is different.
In the NSC, USA Cup and State Cup and tournaments outside of Minnesota, the U13 Bangu blue team plays in their own age group. Last year, since fall of 2006, they have played up a year in MYSA league, so they have played a long time at 11 v 11.
By the way, there are two U12 Bangu teams playing U13 in league this year, both of which are playing in the State Cup at U13. They should be in the play-in game not Dakota Rev's U13 team.
There is actually three u12 teams in the State cup this year.
The REV team that U13 Blue plays in the play in game is a U12 team as well. They are playing up in the South district this season and did so in the fall as well.
I've seen the Bangu 13's play and must agree with the Swedish Smurf that they're the team to beat this year. Unless there's a well kept secret out there it will be hard to imagine any team I've seen beating them at State Cup.
I have seen the REV team play this year. They are a very good U12 team and well coached, need some work on skills but good size and speed. They will compete well but will not advance beyond the play-in game (IMO).
I agree with with anon 226, Dak Rev U12 team is very good, but Bangu U13 should win. Anything is possible. Bangu U12 East Blue and the Bangu U12 South Blue are both very good teams. This will be an exceptional team when they combine the best of both team next year. If this age group had combined this year I think they would have been a favorite to win it this year as true U12s. As is, I think both U12 teams have an outside chance.
Seems boastfull at best about the U12's - new at 11v11 and smaller. Doesnt sound likely, they may beat some U13 teams but will have a tough time with the Premier squads that have been training all winter - good luck.
I think that was a different time and will likely not be repeated. Girls soccer is different now with Bangu and other community clubs training year round.
anon 423, Which teams are premier Squads at U13 in State Cup. Just Curious. I also believe there are several teams with an outside chance to win. Isn't this the first year for most of the teams playing to be playing 11 vs 11. Isn't U12 8v8. Last year it was a pretty much a foregone conclusion on who was going to win at U13. Th All it takes is one bad game or one bad bounce for a team to lose. Size only matters when the skills are the same.
anon 423 or anyone,Which teams are premier squads at U13?? Also Boastful would be right if I was a parent on either team, which I am not. I was just stating my opinion based on all the games I watched at previous tournaments and leagues.
The fact that the u13 bangu teams plays premier at U14. I also think that the teams at U13 right now that will be premier have a leg up on a U12 team that likely has players that cannot play with the better U13 teams, 11v11.
U13 State Cup: Group A: Woodbury or Tonka (too close to call). Group B: Bangu 14P (in a runaway) Group C: Wings. Group D: PSA.
Semis: Woodbury/Tonka; Bangu 14P. Final: Bangu 14P in a close one. Bangu have to be sure not to choke vs. DR in the play-in, but should run through their group and beat a good and well-coached Wings team in the semis. Despite Bangu'spoor showing in Vegas, they have an immense advantage in both talent and also experience at 11v11. Hopefully, they will be able to deal with the pressure. Tonka have a very good reputation and they are capable of providing a great challenge to Bangu. However, watch out for Woodbury. They are the sleeper in the tournament, and they have the Inferno coach, too. There may be 17 teams, but Bangu, Tonka, Woodbury, Wings and PSA are the only teams with a realistic shot to win this year.
I agree with all 12:13 said. Wow, the WDB 13's have the Inferno coach? There is no way to count them out if that's true. They will be there at the end quite possibly. 9:38 nice try, As good as Wings, PSA, Tonka, and Woodbury are, this is the Bangu 13's Cup to lose. Any other team only has a shot if the Bangu team falters. They have the best players, coaches, training schedule. The rest are good but not there yet.
Ever notice that 90% of the talk on topics like this concerns the younger kids? An exception this year with SSM entering U18, but still more youngers discussion.
My guess for the discussion about younger age groups is that people know less about U13 and u14 teams (accept MA's squad) than the older ages.
Also think that at U13 and U14 there are more roster changes from year to year than at the older ages.
A third reason can be that after two state cups people know who the usually suspects are and it is more fun to discuss teams that many may not know that much about.
All good reasons but the most important being it is still all new and exciting to many of their parents and they like to hear and write about their dd's teams.
Also think that the reason for their excitement is that they don't know how good their daughters team is compared to the competition. For some state cup will be a good reality check.
I am a mom of a Bangu U13 player, both last year and this year, so I do know some of the scoop. Many girls were on the U13 East Bangu team last year that earned a premier spot. The team picked up a goalie and a few girls from the south (who did not play 11 v. 11), and a few from Burnsville and Tonka. Bangu tryouts pose a dilemna - although girls are watched year around, there are always some wild cards at tryouts (at least at the younger ages). So, do you go with a 80-90% solution at tryouts, or do you go to pool play? Pool play means that you may lose some players and alienate others. With the current U13 team, I will not comment on technical ability, because I am not the expert. What you cannot accurately assess at 2 days of tryouts are discipline, commitment, and attitude. I think that is where the 10-20% (bubble players) may either make it or break it. Vegas was a great experience for them, and many teams did not even earn an invitation. A few of the games could have gone either way. The girls have worked hard this winter, but, in my opinion, tend to play to the level of their opponent. At the St. Cloud friendlies, they beat PSA U 13 1-0 then lost to Wayazata U14 0-1 the next day. Go figure.
And as for Swedish Smurf, thanks for keeping this real - you are the Paula Abdul of MN Soccer Blogs!
Anon 2:59 How did you come to your expert assessment of the U13 age group? Seems the talent of this age group is spread out over many teams. Maybe they are just smarter than some age groups and stayed at a good CC or other club than go to Bangu for tryouts. Some at tryouts even walked away from being on the blue team - wow!
ANON 614: Good teams don't play down to inferior teams levels. If they do then they are not a good team. Saying they play to the level of their competition is an excuse for playing bad and not winning. You beat PSA because your team is better then them. You lost to Wayzata because they are better. It is that simple. It also sounds like you have an issue with some of your new players or as you call them, bubble players. It sounds like you think you have discipline, attitude, and commitment issues. These also could be another excuse for not doing well in Vegas.
In addition your team did not earn an invitation to Vegas. You got in based on your clubs reputation.
People can come in here and posture all they want. But take a look at who the champions are after State Cup has ended. The results will be very similar to what they were last year. Winning programs draw the top talent to their teams. That's just the way it is. Couple that with top flight training and you get consistent results at State Cup year after year.
So what is Bangu mom saying? Tryouts didn't work out this year? Did better at Vegas than scores indicate? Unpredictable team? That's a strange entry. When you take the top players from Burnsville and Tonka, does that mean that you did not get the people you wanted (those are very good players that will be missed by their former teams...I've seen them)? I heard there were rampant issues between the players/parents and coach at Vegas. That's the problem with expectations: Lots of pressure on 13-year olds. Maybe Dakota Rev has an opportunity to really shake up the U13 draw. Good luck, gu girls.
My contention all along, why are U13 teams going to Las Vegas, Nomads and other challanging, expensive tournaments? Dosent make sense. Take all that money and put it to better use for your team at U15 and above. Milwaukee and Chicago are better at 1/3rd the cost. It would be nice to see some clubs get more creative in their choices.
I can see going to more expensive tournament if you can't find the competition in the local tournaments or tournaments in Iowa, Wisconsin, or Illinois. How have the U13's done in their other tournaments besides Vegas. Since the majority of the team played together last year how did they do as U12's?
I have no idea what it cost per player for a tournament like Vegas or Nomads. How ever an educated guess from talking to parents would be between $500-600 per player.
I am not a big supporter of them you travel far to play 3-4 games in a short period of time usually a weekend.
The idea of a out of town trip for me (except JFG that is done in preparation for state cup and the up comming season) is to make sure the players have a blast both on and off the field.
Players will not remember the score in a certain game years from now but they will remember fun things they did and places they visited with their friends while they where on a soccer trip
Took a U15 team to Pikes Peak in CO last year and that was not cheap per player. My guess is that the cost with airline tickets, hotel rooms, food and excursions was some where around $900 per player for 6 days.
This year the REV U14 team that I coach will travell to Denmark for the Dana Cup No1 (different than Dana Cup, we choose this one because we hope to participate in state and if we had played Dana Cup we would have missed state) and to Sweden for the Gothia cup.
This trip will cost each player roughly $2100 plus spending money. Included in that price is air line tickets transportation, tournament fee's lodging and three meals a day for 13 of the 15 days.
For example the Gothia cup cost roughly $300 per player with three meals a day lodging tournament fee's and a lot more. Last year the team played USA cup and we paid $125 per player for three games against MN teams and one game against a team from Washington.
I know Blackhawks try to do a similar trip for their u16 teams each year and I think this is a great idea.
I wish more teams skip a few out of town tournaments over two years (can still play JFG or chill out to get ready for state cup and the season we are) and plan a trip that players will remember and learn from.
We organized the trip on our own and as a result we pay about $900 less per player than we would have paid if we had used a a soccer tour company.
If anyone is has questions and would like to look into something similar for next year let me know and I be glad to share what I have learned and how we went about it.
miac fan said... People can come in here and posture all they want. But take a look at who the champions are after State Cup has ended. The results will be very similar to what they were last year. Winning programs draw the top talent to their teams. That's just the way it is. Couple that with top flight training and you get consistent results at State Cup year after year.
until you go to Regionals and get beat by Eclipse, Hawks, Ohio Elite Its the same ole rat race every year.
Agree with MIAC FAN and when it is all said and done it will be Bangu att all ages except two maybe three.
However Do not think that the early season tournaments are needed to win state cup, the bottom line is that the teams that win state cup are usually the best/most talented teams and they can prepare well close to home.
At the same time it makes sence that older teams let's say 16 and up to go to winter tournaments so those players can bee seen by school's outside of MN and the surounding states if this is what the players and parents want.
Imagine how much training/scrimmage time a team can by for the money they spend on one out of state tournament in the winter.
Don't think a December trip will decide how good a team is in April. Will March trip help maybe.
Another factor is that many teams that win state cup play Midwest league, so maybe the out fo state march tournaments are more in preparation for midwest league than state cup.
Midwest league is a good prepartion for State Cup. Good compettion fairly close to home (for most teams)
Ulitmately it is up to each club/team the coaches and parents to discuss and decide what they think is best for the players development and overall soccer experience.
anon 12:20, It's always gonna be hard to beat the states with double our population and ability to play outdoors a few more months than us. Do you have any suggestions how to overcome the issue of beating Ohio, Illinois and Michigan? Maybe if we just let the kids stay in their community clubs like 10 years ago? When we were lucky to score a goal at regions much less win a game? Remember those days? At least last year we had a region 2 champion. Oh yeah, we had a girls team in the national finals 2 consecutive years back in 2002 and 2003 I believe. I'm open for suggestion...got any?
The only way to compete at the highest level is consolidate the top talent from the metro area. Unfortunately there is a lot of anomosity between clubs and CC's. CC's have begun to offer more year round training in hopes to keep their better players. In my opinion this is great for the average player but no so good for the top players in the long run. Nothing against the coaches of these teams. For the top players to reach their potential they must be surrounded by the other top talent and usually one community may have only one of these type players. That is why I hope the Thunder Development plan happens. If we want to compete at the highest level this is the only way it can happen. You can be the greatest coach in world, but if you don't have the players you can't compete.
Bangu U14,U17,U18 and WBY U16 have all proven they can compete and win at the highest level. The key is consolidating talent as these teams have done. As the training given younger players improves MN should continue to get better. Is Bangu at the level of an Eclipse or Hawks? No, they may never be, but they certainly are on a par with anyone else in the region and should continue to improve. We will never have the population base to consistently play age level to age level with the likes of Eclipse or Hawks, but we are right there with Carmel, SLSC, FC, OESA and the rest of the regions second tier. This is only if talent continues to be brought together on one or at most two teams.
2:30 is exactly right. However i would like to see it done under the Thunder umbrella. Too much envy and distrust of bangu for them to get the job done long term, especially with regard to field space.
I keep reading about MN doesnt have the numbers that Eclipse or Hawks do, How can that be?? You have tons of kids in the twin cities. 2:14 said it all, The DOC's and coaches want to keep the best players. How selfish is this? its all about winning instead of development with these zip code clubs.
No club can stop a player from leaving in the long run. As far as I know a player will go and play where he or she want too.
Even if we had a team where the top 18 players could play does not mean that they want to play their.
I personal want MN to do well and I support the Thunder proposal.
However it is really no different from how it works today at 13 and older. The difference is how to develop ages 12 and younger.
Strong teams will contact strong players to see if they are interested in playing with them. If they say yes good if they say no fine, but DON'T BLAME THE CC'S FOR IT.
Each player and his or her familly will make the decision based on what they they think is best for them.
Hmmm...Cuba population 12,000,000, the US population around 300,000,000. The US has roughly 25 times Cuba's population. In a recent Mens National team game:
USA U23 1 Cuba U23s 1
And Cuba did outplay the US for about 50% of the game. The US coaching structure at all levels is more about politics and glad handing. Not to mention that not many quality people can make a living coaching youth soccer.
I could take a U23 team with all Minnesota players, train them for 2 weeks, and beat USMNT U23s.
Smurf you are right, no club can stop a kid from leaving in the long run, but they can sure be a hinderance and make it very uncomfortable for players and parents that do. A lot of the ones that do get treated like the plague from the former CC. Wouldn't it be great if they worked together to get the best kids on the same team. I have never heard of a CC telling a parent "your child has a lot of potential and they would be better off playing with a team of similar skilled players" I'm not saying it has never happened but if the coach really had the best interest in mind for that child they would. I would bet more would get involved with a premier club if their CC coach suggested it. Also you said "most will make the decision based on what they think is best for them". Unfortunately most parents don't know that much about the soccer community and they then go to their current coach and ask him his opinion. Of course what do you think he says " we do year round training also" Some don't realize that year round training can only be as good as the other kids you are training with. Also I disagree with your statement that it currently works at the U13 age group. There are so many players currently on different teams that this is not what is happening. Smurf you said you support the Thunder initiative. Has your club decided? Any insight would be appreciated! Some people have been talking about our lack of population being the issue. I also disagree with that. There was an article a while ago on Go Sports Life talking about how a small country (Maybe Denmark if I remember right) and how they are able to produce more top teams and players compared to other European countries who had way more people playing soccer. If we want to compete I believe we can and should but The first step is to get as much of the talent together as possible. The Thunder Plan sounds like a great start.
Yea, I was going to say, if you cant do something with 3m, but Des Moines and Omaha can do almost as good as MN does, something is wrong. Is the Twin Cities bigger than Cincy where Ohio Elite runs out of??
What do you mean rampant issues? There was no such thing as "rampant issues between the players/parents and coach at Vegas." You weren't there, You can't just throw something like that out without specifics. I was there and I can tell you no such "rampant issues" existed.
The coach of this team is a well respected, talented coach. And as a parent on this team I can tell you most parents support him, respect the way he approaches the game and are impressed with the way he relates tot he girls.
So before you start trying to tear down the team by making such statements, have your facts straight.
anon 6:25, Relax...guys like anon 12:20 and 8:02 don't have a clue. They're the ones jealous of certain clubs and teams for one reason or another. It's probably the same guy bashing Minnesota for lack of success at regions...but didn't know of the great record Minnesota teams had at regions last year. He probably didn't realize that since 2002 Minnesota had more teams winning Region 2 titles than Wisconsin, Missouri, Iowa, ND, SD, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio North or Ohio South. He's ignorant of the fact the Tsunami girls in 2002 and 2003 won regions and went to the Championship game both years. He's ignorant of the fact the Super Eagles won regions and went to nationals 2 years ago. And even ignorant of the fact that the Bangu Tsunami U13 girls won Region 2 just last summer. Let fools like him wallow in his ignorance and jealousy.
Uffda! Good post regarding Minnesota's relative success in recent years compared to most of of the other Region II states. We have had 4 teams win Region 2 championships in the last 6 years! When has that happened before? We aren't there with the Illinois and Michigans yet but the improvement in the level of soccer this decade has been dramatic. We can thank the Tsunami teams, the Wings, St Croix, Super Eagles and Bangu for pushing the envelope and showing all of us what it takes to compete regionally and nationally. We know we can succeed if we do the right things. Whether we like to acknowledge the success of the clubs I've noted let's be honest. We now have dozens of community clubs setting up winter training programs, traveling to winter tournaments, hiring more professional trainers etc just like the clubs who led the way. Hats off to progress. Let's hope it doesn't stall. Maybe the new Thunder owners can help us along to continued development and progress. They seem to have a vision and the means to make it happen. They have great local soccer people leading the way. They don't get any better than Manny and Amos.
In addition to success at regionals we have had teams have success at major invitational tourneys. Usually these tournaments have stronger fields than regionals do. The top teams in this state are just as strong as any except for a handful. That doesn't mean there isn't lots of room for improvement, there is, but we are doing OK. One thing is lack of depth, in most cases we only have one team that can compete with the best teams, we should be able to field at least two. With the new training programs in place it is just a matter of time.
Again with the "you're jealous," cc's can't service top players and the join the Thungu banner blarney? It must be State Cup (or tryout) season. I think it's amazing that the Bang-u and (by implication) Plunder leaders take these tacks as their main effort to entice the other clubs in the area to join them. How many months have you been doing this? How many clubs are joining you? Perhaps it's time to look at yourself and your strategy and understand that any rational thought here would dictate that one come to the conclusion that it can't be just the dozens of ignorant, selfish DOC's that stand in your way. We're talking a life down the rabbit hole perspective if you can't realize that MYSA and virtually every local club are vehemently opposed to this venture as long as Bangu is in charge. Will that stop the venture? No. However, there has been no visible commitment from any club in the months since they cooked this up now, and the best they can do to keep it alive is to write on here every day, thereby reinforcing all of the concerns about the rationale anyway. Thungu? Brilliant!
Anon 10:37, CC's absolutely can not service the top players to the level that a club can. No disservice is meant to their coaches abilities. A lot of the coaches from the CC's are just as good and some are probably better, the difference is the talent level on the teams. CC's typically draw from a smaller pool of players were clubs have a larger pool to draw from. I thought it was common knowledge for any sport that not only must you have a good coach but also good teammates to train with and against. I guess not.
anon 10:42, Your obsession with MA has been noticed by many bloggers and we all agree it's getting a bit creepy. If the reason isn't that your daughter couldn't make his team then it must be something else quite personal. Were you one of MA's groupies from his playing days with the Thunder? Did you ask MA out for a date and he rejected your overture? MA is married these days with a beautiful baby girl and I'm guessing your heartbreak over this is causing your obsession. Please seek help from a qualified therapist to get you past this unhealthy fixation. There's a lot more to life than obsessing and pining over unrequited love.
Second, my moniker is a shot at myself, not at you.
Third, it's angry, selfish, narrow minded people/coaches/club decision makers who help ensure your club, and Minnesota soccer for that matter, will always be behind the curve playing catch up.
Try to figure out how to take a moniker if you can. We'll revisit this all again in a month or two. Until then I'll wish your club luck. If you're calling the shots... they'll need it. =-)
Wow. It looks from here like you probably justified 10:42 with that Freudian outburst. So this means if you're not jealous and you don't have a kid cut by or not good enough to make an MA team, then you must be attracted to MA? That's a pretty big leap (and awfully egocentric). Could it be that there are people out there that actually have a legitimate dislike for his methods and those of his club? No, I guess not. Too funny. Could be MA again, I suppose. Wait, he swore off writing on this blog (but maybe that was only one of him).
People are free to dislike other people, other clubs, other methods, etc. It's universal.
My two cents is this - I feel the people posting here don't like MA because they feel threatened by him/his club. He's sharper and more soccer savvy than most, he's had success, and he is constantly bucking the trend. This doesn't lend to many fans outside of his circle of involvement and his circle of involvement will never be large as he's obviously focused on a very small percentage of soccer players.
People take shots at him all the time. He's human and I'm sure his decision to leave blogs like this was due in part to not wanting to subject himself to the constant onslaught that had to be wearing. I could be wrong.
Some of you people need to get over him, his club, his methods. The simple fact is that if you are losing players to his programs step up what you're doing. You discredit all the parents who have made choices to join by claiming that it has everything to do with him and that the parents were somehow bamboozled.
He has been the common denominator (not the ONLY denominator) in arguably the top u11 - u16 girls teams in this state, in Woodbury's success while he was there, in the most nationally competitive club MN has ever had, and now in the youth development initiative led by the state's professional organization. Like him or not he is helping all of us elevate the game.
Oh, by the way, I'm not MA though I've had a player on on of his teams and have known him for a long time. I believed in him before I knew him, still believe in him now that I'm no longer with him, and will believe in any soccer initiative he is involved with.
Funny how so many people whine about MA's "methods" and the "methods" of the Bangu club...then go out and mimic them as they play catch up in the race for success. Too funny.
I find it interesting that so many are giving MA credit for inventing the wheel. He and Bangu have certainly given other clubs reason to reelavuate what they do to train and retain high level players. I would not say however that the CC clubs are copying training methods that have been out there for decades. I will give MA cudos for helping the CC realize that they need to pay more attention the the high level players and begin quaility training at youger age levels.
The Academy so far has produced 3 teams that came through the system, Bangu U13-U15. Does anyone think these teams are better than the best MN teams at U16-U18? Didn't think so. These teams have been more successful out of state than any of the academy teams to date. Bangu 17 and WDB 16 also did as well or better at the younger ages, although success prior to U15 is not as important as after. Other than these three teams we have had Tsunami Sota, St Croix Eclectic and Elite, and other teams that have done well. One region championship due in large part to a fortunate draw does not make a system great. I support what MA and Bangu are doing but so far the success is due as much to consolidating talent as anything. The test will be when MN can field multiple nationally competitive teams in each age group. Until that happens we really have not done anything we haven't before. . Will this happen? I think so if people unite and support it. From what I read on here we are not close to that happening.
12:01, CC's can pay as much attention to high level players as they want, but it is still not enough for those players, they need better teammates to train against and play with. They will not get this with their community clubs. To be your best you need to play and train with the best possible.
12:01 is absolutely right. MA and company have invented nothing. They deserve credit for drawing attention to the possibilities, but his efforts to paint others as jealous of his work is sickening at best.
7:18, Even if one agrees with your premise, the problem is still who is running the show. The Wings/Wayzata US Club Soccer model will suffice nicely and set an example of how area clubs can embrace an extra layer of training (and playing with high-level players) without all of the antics associated with the Bangu types. In addition, parents will like this better, too, as the costs will likely be more transparent and affordable (if done properly, it will limit recruiting, as this venture is not about players changing clubs). He can take credit for getting the ball rolling, but that will be small consolation a few years down the road.
6:02, I have a daughter in the East Academy. I feel you are marginalizing the U14's achievement. They won regions. Instead of tearing down and minimizing their accomplishments give them some credit. You may think they had a fortunate draw, but the the fact remains the same, they won! The teams you think who would have been tougher competition didn't get that far, they lost. Either they aren't as good as you thought or the 14's are maybe better than you think. I tend to think it's some of both. I do agree that it is important to consolidate and a lot has to do with Bangu teams success in Minnesota tournaments, but for Out of State Tournaments it has nothing to do with consolidation but mostly coaching as in the other top teams in other states have the same consolidated talent.
I thought the U14 age group was the first team through the academy????? Not sure!! Bangu has consolidated a lot of talent and potential in the U9-U12 age groups. Time will only tell how they are measured against the older teams. I don't know much about the U15 team but how can you say the U14's don't stack up against the U16-U18. You said the 16's and 17's have done better out of state when they were younger than the Academy teams. What did they win at the younger ages? How did they fare in their out of state excursions?? It sounds like you are comparing the different age groups and pitting one group against the other. The younger age groups have benefitted from the success of the U 14's. We had a huge tryout at the u9 -u12 age groups. Some of that turn out can be linked to the U14's success and also the play of the current teams at those age groups. You also claim to support what MA and Bangu is doing but then trash his achievements.
806 I will agree that 602 minimizes the U14 achievement at regions unnecessarily, they don't control who they play, all they can do is defeat the opponent that shows up to play them. However, the rest of the post is spot on. Since you are questioning what the current U16 and 17 teams accomplished when young it is obvious you are new to the larger soccer world. I believe the post said "as well or better" Do your research and you will find that to be true. I agree with the basic premise, it is too early to declare the academy a great success. It may prove to be in the future.
I also agree in large part with what 6:02 and 8:44 said with the caveat that MA was also very involved with the current inferno team at a young age and I believe also worked with the stars on occasion. So those two teams are not as "unacademy" as it seems.
216 comments:
1 – 200 of 216 Newer› Newest»Disney Showcase Dec 30 - Jan 2.
U15 2nd Flight
#16 RII BANGU TSUNAMI FC 93 BLUE (Minnesota)
U16 2nd Flight
#16 RII WSC INFERNO (Minnesota)
U17 Top Flight
#22 N BANGU TSUNAMI STARS (Minnesota)
U16 2nd Flight
#16 RII WSC INFERNO (Minnesota)
U18 Top Flight
#22 N BANGU TSUNAMI FC 89/90 BLUE (Minnesota)
The Orange Classic Dec. 27-30
U16
BANGU TSUNAMI 91/92 BLUE (Minnesota)
U17
WSC ECLIPSE (Minnesota)
BANGU TSUNAMI FC BANGU TSUNAMI SELECT (Minnesota)
U19
BANGU TSUNAMI 89/90 WHITE (Minnesota)
TWIN CITIES FIRE FIRE SC 90 (Minnesota)
Awfully quiet out there.....
Orange Classic schedule:
Bangu 91/92 Blue
12/27 Bangu vs TSF Academy Lynx (NJ)
12/28 Bangu vs Vincent United Valor 91 (PAE)
12/29 Bangu vs SYC Galaxy (VA)
WSC Eclipse
12/27 WSC Eclipse vs Madison 56ers (WI)
12/28 WSC Eclipse vs London Supernova (Canada)
12/29 WSC Eclipse vs Rochester Jr Rhinos (NYE)
Bangu Tsunami Select
12/27 Bangu Select vs JYSC Fury Green (FL)
12/28 Bangu Select vs Patriots FC 91 (NYE)
12/29 Bangu Select vs Montgomery FC Santos (MD)
Bangu Tsunami 89/90 White
12/27 Bangu vs Albertson Milan Fury (NYE)
12/28 Bangu vs Patriots FC 89/90 (NYE)
12/29 Bangu vs East Ridge Express 90 (TN)
TC Fire 90
12/27 Fire vs Darlington Soccer Academy (GA)
12/28 Fire vs Manatee Magic (FL)
12/29 Fire vs West Pasco FC Thunder (FL)
What is the main purpose of a Showcase ?
the put players in front of college coaches for the purpose of evaluation. its window shopping for scouts. lets make it even more simple... to SHOWCASE talent for prospecting coaches.
Does the Orange Classic seed their teams?
the millenium bracket contains the best teams according to the rankings and team resumes; the oranges contains the next best teams and so on...
Very few teams at lower tier tourneys such as Orange Classic are ranked. Most also do not have much of a track record outside of their state. This makes any seeding attempt more guesswork than anything else.
WSc u17 do well against national and regionally ranked teams at orange classic , 4-0-1 to win their flight championship. great job and congrats.
Congrats to them! What ranked teams did they defeat?
tied #33 rochester rhinos(nsr)in their final group match in which they needed a tie or win to advance.
they beat London city supernova who won the 2006 canadian national championship as u16s, also beat texas sc challenge blitz and real colorado national
No wins over ranked teams there but still a good tourney. Well done.
Woodbury Inferno U16s and Bangu's U15 Blues in their respective age group finals at Disney. Not top flight but still good showings by both teams. Not sure what happened to Bangu's U17s and U18s. I would think both would have liked better results though both are playing in top flights.
Bangu Blue won their final, Woodbury lost. Congrats to the coaches and girls. Well done.
I am sure both these team feel good about their performance. I am also quite sure that they they feel like they can also compete in the top flight of major tourneys like Disney. Hopefully this performance on the resume will ensure they get that opportunity in the future. As the best MN has in their age groups they should be in top flights.
Orange classic does not have flights. However, they do usually group teams to make balanced groups.
Woodbury was 3-1 against four nationally ranked teams at Disney. Impressive early season results against top level competition.
Interestingly enough, the same Rochester team you are happy to have tied-- the S-SM U16s handled pretty easily with guest players (and three starters missing due to injury) on Saturday November 3rd.
Looks like there may be some quality competition to be had "in-State" if you'd just travel to Faribault.
Woodbury U16s did not tie any teams at Disney, and has not played Rochester. The posting of the strong results at Disney were not intended to reflect poorly upon SSM or relate in any way to SSM (with or without injuries).
anon 143 if youre trying to stir something up with true minnesota teams, you should, at the very least, make sure that you have your info right....woodbury eclipse tied #33 rochester rhinos of new york and not the rochester lightening of missouri...nice try though
Woodbury did not play 4 nationally ranked teams. There tie was against a ranked team. The other games were meaningless as they are just good C1 caliber teams. I will give them kudos for the tie againts the ranked team though.
nobody claimed they did, that previous comment was in reference to the woodbury 16s at disney
Does anyone know who is playing in the Bangu Showcase? There is nothing about it on the Bangu website. Are they still hosting it?
The following teams are listed as accepted for the Las Vegas College Showcase tournament in March
U13G Bangu Blue
U14G Bangu Blue
U15G Bangu Blue
U16G WSC Inferno
U17G Bangu Tsunami Stars
Good luck to all these teams!
Schedule for the Bangu Showcase, all games at St Cloud State
Bangu Tsunami College Search
Saturday February 2
Kick off Time Home Team Away Team
7:40 AM Tsunami Blue 16 Tsunami Storm 17
9:00 AM PSA Wildfire 16 Ankeny 17
10:20 AM Tsunami Stars 17 Dakota Gold 17
11:40 AM Gladiator Blue 17 Tsunami Select 17
1:00 PM Nebraska 91 ODP Tsunami White 18
2:20 PM Ankeny 17 Tsunami Storm 17
3:40 PM Tsunami Stars 17 St Louis Soccer 17
5:00 PM Dakota Gold 17 PSA Wildfire 16
6:20 PM Gladiator Blue 17 Tsunami Blue 16
7:40 PM WSC Inferno 16 Nebraska 91 ODP
9:00 PM Tsunami White 18 Tsunami Select 17
Sunday February 3
Kick off Time Home Team Away Team
7:40 AM St Louis Soccer 17 WSC Inferno 16
9:00 AM Tsunami Storm 17 Gladiator Blue 17
10:20 AM Nebraska 91 ODP Tsunami Stars 17
11:40 AM Dakota Gold 17 Ankeny 17
1:00 PM Tsunami White 18 St Louis Soccer 17
2:20 PM WSC Inferno 16 Tsunami Blue 16
3:40 PM Tsunami Select 17 PSA Wildfire 16
What are the best matches of the bunch?
WSC vs Nebraska ODP
Stars vs St Louis
Stars vs Nebraska ODP
WSC vs St Louis
Those are the four best teams there.
Has the new Woodbury Doc been confirmed yet?
does anyone know the results of the ssm odp festival?
Bangu 14's in Arizon
Cisco AZ #8 in AZ won 3-0
CO Rush #14 in r4 won 3-2
Bangu U14 loses to Sting Royal #14 nation 3-1.
Bangu wins agains Canyon SC unranked 4-1
SSM ODP Festival ends up with MN 92s looking like the cream of the crop. SSM U16s lost all of our games, but all were competitive games that were good to watch. Worst performance was vs. NE '92s. I believe that the MN 92s won all three matches, but not certain.
I, for one, really liked the brand/style of play shown by the MN 92s. Very fast play....
Thanks for the reply but I am sure the person who asked the question already knew the answer.
anon 7:25...I din't...otherwise, why would I ask?..ssm south campus thanks for the information..what about the U-18's?
U18s didn't bring in any ODP teams. They did play on Saturday afternoon, unsure of the result. Sorry.
SSM 18s beat Woodbury 3-1
This coming weekend is the Shattuck Adidas Showcase GU18s
Shattuck
FCDynamo IND
Bangu MN
MO Premier
which Woodbury team?
Not Sure??
they never tell which team... which is why they just list Bangu instead of Bangu WHITE. Like last year they had on their schedule wins over FC Milwaukee, but didn't indicate that it was FCM's THIRD TEAM. Typicall SSM.
Sure, on the SSM website it says Woodbury Eclipse. Get off your lazy ARS and look for yourself!
OT but it appears MDW will do better recruiting the state this year. According to soccer buzz she has landed the top 3 players off the Bangu 18 team in TS,JS and SE, as well as arguably the states top recruit in CP. Only one in top five she lost is KB to NW. We will have to see if this is enough to make them competitive for the top of the conference.
gg I will agree with that. On the other hand Turner and Wepking, part of the much praised class of 2006, have transferred to Marquette. I hear Green is leaving also but cannot confirm that.
GG--what about Lundgren and Gallivan--Ms. Soccer's for this past year. They seem worthy of top 5 consideration.
the rochester team shattuck girls defeated on nov. 3 were from michigan and not state cup winners the rochester team wsc tied at orange is u17 new york west state cup winners , they had two division one midfielders that are going to maryland. dont think ssm u16 could complete on that level yet,
Three U17G teams in Omaha this weekend, any results in?
gg your assessment looks accurate to me. I would differ only in that MDW went 3 for 5 IMO as I would include LK (Cal-Davis)in the top 5 instead of one of the gopher recruits you listed. All good players though, including the ones elastico mentioned. I am concerned that she did not get any out of state players, at least none are listed so far on buzz. Does anyone know of any? How about where some other Mn players are going that have yet to be listed?
Signing day is next Wednesday and all questions will be answered. One thing you can be sure of is that every program will be "very excited" to sign an "excellent class" that contains the "top player(s) from the state of ..."
Any results from the Bangu College Showcase in St. Cloud? What colleges did they attract?
Since it is quiet does anyone have an opinion on the top girls three girls teams U11 - U19. This is much more interesting than what we have been seeing.
I also expect no response because we are not beating up on Bangu or SSM.
Don't know about some of the younger ages (other than I believe Bangu probably has at least one if not two of the top three), but here's my guess on the others....
U14
Bangu Blue
Wayzata
Bangu White
U15
Bangu Blue
EP
Wayzata/Woodbury
U16
Woodbury
Bangu Blue (a distant second)
PSA
U17
Bangu Blue
Wings
Woodbury
U18
Bangu Blue
SSM
Tonka
U19
SCV
???????
I doubt any of this comes as a big surprise. Up and coming teams.....Woodbury U17's, Bangu U16's, and then either Wayzata or Woodbury U15's.
Articles about some of the MN kids who have signed per soccer buzz. Some schools have not posted yet, and some girls commitments are not yet posted. Quite a contingent going to be bison.
http://www.gobison.com/SportSelect.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=2400&KEY=&SPID=699&SPSID=11945
http://www.gophersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=38622&SPID=3296&DB_OEM_ID=8400&ATCLID=1383309
http://www.gojacks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=64561&SPID=7145&DB_OEM_ID=15000&ATCLID=1383863
http://nusports.cstv.com/sports/w-soccer/spec-rel/020808aaj.html
LV Showcase
Woodbury Inferno
Sparta Premier (UT) #23 R4
Fort Collins Arsenal (CO) #37 R4
Pleasonton Rage (CA) Unranked
San Ramon Shock (CA) #15 R4
Bangu Stars
WCFC (CA) #42 Nation
OJSC Strikers (CA) Unranked
San Diego Surf White (CA) #20 R4
FC Portland Sapphire (OR) #10 Nation
More 08's
http://ohiobobcats.cstv.com/sports/w-soccer/ohio-w-soccer-body.html
There were quite a few MN teams in Las Vegas this weekend. How did they do?
Las Vegas Mayor’s Cup Feb 16-18
U17 Girls
Plymouth Strikers
#1 vs. Impact United Black (UT) W 1-0
#2 vs. Calgary Foothills Athletics (CND) L 0-1
#3 vs. Placer United Prestige 91 (CAN) T 0-0
Consolation vs. Plainfield Legends Elite (IL) T 0-0
U16 Girls
Golden Valley Phoenix Firebirds
#1 vs. El Dorado Eclipse 92 (CAN) T 1-1
#2 vs. Carmel United Premier 92 (IN) L 0-3
#3 vs. Impact United White (UT) L 0-2
Consolation vs. Edmonton West Raiders (CND) W 3-2
Lakeville Rebels
#1 vs. Littleton United White (CO) L 0-2
#2 vs. La Roca WR (UT) L 0-2
#3 vs. California Nike Rush 92 (CAN) L 0-2
Consolation vs. Arizona Rush 92 Nike (AZ) L 0-1
Bangu Tsunami White
#1 vs. Neusport FC Green (NV) #32 R4 L 0-6
#2 vs. Calgary Foothills Irish (CND) L 0-2
#3 vs. Utah Rush Nike (UT) T 0-0
Consolation vs. Gilbert 92 Arsenal Classic (AZ) L 0-1
Blackhawks Force
#1 vs. Nazareth Thunderhawks (PAE) T 1-1
#2 vs. Placer United Prestige 92 (CAN) L 0-1
#3 vs. Gilbert 92 Arsenal Classic (AZ) W 2-0
Consolation vs. Calgary Foothills Irish (CND) W 1-0
Thoughts?
Thoughts?Seems in general a lack of goalscoring from the teams,perhaps the Mn teams lack some creativity and might be to much meat and potato not enough salsa?
Looks like they could have all stayed home and played each other and saved themselves a bundle of money.
8:57 - there are a variety of reasons that teams travel.....different/better competition, identification of strengths/weaknesses, bonding/chemistry, toughening due to dealing with unique and different experiences, fun, etc..., but in all honesty my opinion and yours really don't matter. I guess you would have to ask the players, parents, and coaches if it was worth it.
Do you believe the coaches care much what the parents think? Take any of the reasons you have stated and tell me you couldnt have found any of that information by playing an older aged team locally. I do not believe it is about development but reputation of the coaches or clubs pushing these out of state trips.
2:38 - as I stated before, my opinion doesn't really matter. Maybe yours does. The teams are listed above and coaches can be easily identified so feel free to give them a call.
2:51 Head in the sand kind a guy are you? I thought this was a forum for discussion. Should we go back to bashing SSM or Bangu, perhaps you will feel at home then. If you have an opinion then out with it - enough wishy washy.
I believe I stated my opinion previously back on 2/20 at 9:58am - nothing has changed and obviously my thoughts are different than yours. Really nothing to debate. Maybe someone else will bite.
I agree with 2:38--older age scrimmages or girls going against a boys team would accomplish about the same (other than showcase exposure)--
23 girls going on to play D1 soccer next year per soccer buzz and many more at D2 and D3. Not bad for supposedly such a backward state. Congratulations to all.
Good Luck to the Minnesota Teams playing in the Las Vegas College Showcase March 14 – 16
Schedule and NSR Rankings
U13 Girls
Bangu Tsunami Blue – Unranked
FC Stars of Massachusetts United (MA) #29 Region I
Neusport 95 Green (NV) #6 Nation - #2 Region IV
Ohio Premier U13 Green (OS) #4 Nation - #1 Region II
U14 Girls
Bangu Tsunami 93/94 Blue #24 Nation - #7 Region II
FC Pennsylvania Strikers (PAE) #15 Nation - #3 Region I
SO Cal Blues-Bolger (CAS) #26 Region IV
Utah Avalanche 94 Premier (UT) #24 Region IV
U15 Girls
Bangu Tsunami 93 blue (MN) #16 Region II
La Roca Premier GA (UT) #40 Nation - #11 Region IV
Pleasanton Rage u15 Premier (CAN)
Region IV Girls ODP RIV 94G (USA) - ODP
U16 Girls
WSC Inferno (MN) #24 Nation - #7 Region II
Hurricane FC 92 Shubert (OK) #26 Nation - #7 Region III
Leahi 93 Premier (HI) – Unranked?
Real Hawaii Futbol 92G (HI) – Unranked?
U17 Girls
Bangu Tsunami Stars (MN) #22 Nation - #6 Region II
FC Bucks Vipers (PAE) #9 Nation - #2 Region I
FC Delco 90s (PAE) #19 Region I
PDA Pride (NJ) #33 Nation - #9 Region I
Some of those schedules are totally wrong, teams play across pools, not within them at older flights.
A quote from Randy Waldrum that should educate some parents who think that having their player make a national or regional ODP team somehow makes them better than their peers. I think we have seen a few on this site and others.
"Secondly, there are now so many good players that this country is producing. Ten years ago, there were a handful of really good players that all of the top programs were going for. If you weren’t on a national team, then getting to a top program was really difficult. Now, many players around the country can play for the top programs, as the difference between a national team player and a really good club or high school player is very small if any difference at all."
Did your daughter not make the ODP team?
anon 3:29 - nice post, however, this is way too broad of a statement. Has the pool of talent gotten deeper - definitely. Are there players out there who could or should be on an ODP team - definitely, the talent difference between players 20-50 at a regional camp is probably very small. High school (especially here in MN) probably really shouldn't be included in the discussion. What are there - 30 kids on a regional ODP team? Being that there are over 250 kids vying for those spots, lumping players #1 through #250 is not accurate, as there is a significant differnce in both technical and tactical ability (and if you do not even make the state ODP team then the gap gets wider). I don't have any horses in this race, but as a coach, I can tell you there are reasons some make it, some don't, why some are better, and why some aren't. Some of it's physcial, some of it's mental.
Well said by Mr. Waldrum and the point is accurate. It has been stated before and is very true that making an ODP team means you are an excellent player. It does not make you necessarily any better a player than someone who did not. It is a very subjective process. The reaction of 4:04 is instructive as to the type of parent being mentioned.
This piece from Coach Waldrum is from an article about the pro and cons of early recruiting. Coach Ang Kelly, Jill Ellis, Anson and Waldrum all talked about it. Why dont you just post the link. Its not about National players v Highschool players. It appears that you cut and pasted the part that you wanted to make a point about.
I guess my question is what is the motivation for posting the quote in the first place? The natural reaction from anyone who reads it is that your child did not achieve some success or make some team and this quote somehow makes you feel better. I've also read the whole article and this is very selective journalism. Does making an ODP mean you are an excellent player - yes. It also means that in the coaches eyes (and there are many evaluations by multiple coaches) you are better than the vast majority. To just say "it does not make you necessarily any better a player than someone who did not" is too all encompassing. Maybe the few bubble kids, but not the rest. But if it helps you sleep at night.........
Well said by 7:59 and sums it up well.
It appears Anon 3:29 has struck a nerve. "How dare you say my kid who is a Nat/Reg/state team player is not better than anyone who is not!!"
this is an old and tired thread that resurrects itself 2-3 times a year. it always starts with a parent stating that ODP kids aren't any better than non-ODP kids. next comes some opposite responses. it gets old. and I'm not sure why Nat/Reg team players are even drawn into the conversation. how many are there in the first place, maybe a dozen regional kids across 4 years of boys and girls (barely one per year) and you can count the national kids on one hand.
Not hard to figure out by the posts whose kids are where.
Anon 9:26-- by your post, I assume that you mean "whose kids are being trained by quality coaching staff and are able to widen the gap with those who are not". Wishful thinking, but you have to admit that at the older ages training is the key. And what really counts is who is identified for thier skills at U16, U17, U18...NOT who is bigger, faster, stronger at U11-U15.
ssm-sc: no, not at all. I was stating an opinion that those posts who believe that non-ODP kids are as good as ODP kids most likely have kids who are not OPD kids, while those who disagree with that line of thinking most likely have ODP kids. When it comes to coaching, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I will take quality over quantity any day. The best kids either have it or they don't. The ODP regional kids at WDB/BNG only train three, maybe 4 times top per week. Lots of training can make a good player better and a very good player even better, but if they don't have the speed, mind set, or vision, no amount of training will make a player great. Even then, who decides who is better than another? It is all very subjective.
North TX 7 Minnesota 1
at 91 ODP tourney
anon 3:21-- Great post, I don't disagree with you in the slightest. My only point is that IF a player has the natural skill set needed, training by quality trainers is necessary to widening the gap to the next kid.
It is a total package, and many times people think that natural ability is the key ingredient. Unfortunately, many seem to forget about the training side of things until it is too late and thier child falls behind.
Minnesota 3, Cal 2
at 91 ODP tourney
Championship game NTX 2 NJ 1. At least they lost to the eventual champion. Too bad they couldn't keep it more competitive. What players comprise that team? I would think mostly Bangu Stars and WSC Inferno players?
Rosters are on the National Championship web site. If you look at the 7-1 game, you will see that MN held the lead until the second half and then the goals appear to have all come within about 15 minutes.
ssm-sc: I agree with your response to my 3:21 post. You hit it right on the head by emphasizing the word "IF". Unfortunately, many parents (more than the players) either are too optimistic, too unrealistic, or even delusional in their child's abilities and then get disappointed when little Mia/Landon doesn't achieve some certain level of recognition. It should also be less about "widening the gap", but more about individual development. The measuring stick should be if they have improved, not if or how much better they are than the other guy (or gal). You do hit it right on the head about the need for quality training, but there are many viewpoints on how much is too much. At some point you reach a point of diminishing returns.
VEGAS
U14 Bangu vs SoCal Blues #41 Nation 1-1
U15 Bangu vs La Roca Premier (UT) #40 Nation 0-2
On the Vegas website, it has all the scores updated except Bangu U14? It has N/A next to both of the teams? Anyone know why?
Thanks anon 1:41 for the score.
Bangu U13 lose 0-4 in their first game.
The bangu U14's were originally placed in second flight. They protested and were eventually moved into top flight but that may have goofed up the results page.
Why is the world would the tournament put the Region 2 champ in the 2nd flight?
Some tournaments look more at your record against other top teams than titles you hold. As someone noted on another thread the region title was won without having to play any of the top regional teams. This due to a good draw, upsets in state cups and other region games, and the lack of MRL slots at U13. The Bangu team may have won anyway but the tournament directors may not have given them the credit they deserve because of these factors.
The U14 team did not play fall and because of that they did not get Midwest league premier status, as a result they where put in the second dlight. It was later corrected when the organizers realized that they where the regional champions. I got this info from MA and MC .
On a side note from what I have heard this tournament have great teams and great potential but it is run by a bunch of muppets. I heard that two teams even had to put the net's up on the goals before one of the games today.
Swedish Smurf
U16 WSC W 1-0 Sparta Prem #23 RIV
U17 Bangu D 1-1 WCFC #42N
U14 Bangu L 2-0 Avalanche #24 RIV
tournament website still does not have the score of Bangu U14's first game. Not sure why.
They lost 0-2 to Utah in the second game.
14s first game was a draw 1-1, 2nd half they were lucky to not get scored on again. Total record is
0 wins, 1 draw and 1 loss 1 goal for, 3 against
Seems like Bangu likes to kick it over the top. Is this the way the whole club is teached?
most bangu teams are heavier on possession. the U14's play a bit more "direct" (sounds better than over the top, hoof & hope, bootball, etc...). however, the longer balls are played up by the attacking midfield or are diagonal crosses. true bootball is often generated by the backline or defensive midfielders. also, if you are behind, playing more direct can be a necessity (and is very common) or if you are being pressured, then a more direct approach is often necessary to initiate a solid counterattack. watch the EPL one weekend and see how they counterattack.
LOL the old saying is true. MY team plays a direct, counter attacking style. YOUR team plays bootball.
9:57 - not sure if your rip of 9:51 is completely appropriate. I guess the question is name me a team that doesn't play this way at one time or another. I've seen true bootball where every ball into your defensive end is just kicked out long and I've also seen teams that link passes together out of the backfield and then play one long. I guess it is all semantics. The old USWNT coach played this way as does UNC (heaven forbid if I criticize Dorrance - blasphemy). The beauty of soccer is it is a game of reaction and the play on the field and the bounce of the dictates your reaction. If a long ball or bootball opportunity is there - you take it. If you must build by linking, then that is what you do.
How did Bangu U15 do in second game? Nothing on website.
they won 4-0
Why is it that Inferno, with a similar ranking as the Bangu teams in Vegas, was not assigned some high level teams to play? I believe the best team they play is only #15 in Region 4. Long way to go and expensive to play in a showcase tourney to play teams of that caliber. This is a strangely run tournament.
anon 3:36,
The overall reputation of the club a team belongs to carries a lot of weight in out of state tournaments.
That's just the way it is.
What is the Red Bull Flight all about? I see it contains all the best U15 girls teams at vegas.
Red Bull is the National League.
Just like last Spring, MRL held its games during the Blue Chip and Crossroads.
The top U16 teams in Las Vegas are also in the Red Bull Flight, which provides the answer to 336's question.
1-4-1 for Bangu U13 and 14 in pool play. The only win came against a team which knew it had clinched winning their pool and rested key players. Better luck for U15 at 2-1-0 but as noted in a low flight. None of the teams advanced. Not good but hopefully the teams have learned and will improve.
This time of year is tough for Minnesota teams traveling to play teams from more southern climes.
No matter how much you think training full field in a dome 3-4 times prepares you for outdoor matches it really doesn't.
We see it every year at this time. But by mid-summer our teams seem to fare better against the same opponents.
We truly are disadvantaged early in the year. No excuses however for performances from June thru August events.
Bangu u14s finish 2-1-1 with a win against Real Colorado this morning.
Final Vegas Results during pool play not including consolation games.
Bangu 13 0-3-0 4'th in group
Bangu 14 1-1-1 3'rd in group
Bangu 15 2-1-0 2'nd in group
WDB 16's and BNG 17's can win their groups with favorable results today. No playoffs at these age levels though.
Overall decent results for Minnesota teams this early in the season.
Good luck to WDB 16's and BNG 17's.
Bangu 14s go 2-1-1 with the help of 2 Shattuck players playing in the middle together. Its nice to see 2 clubs getting along to do what is best for the players.
anon 6:41......would you be a bangu parent or a ssm parent?
Decent results for most of the teams other than the U13 team with 0 wins/draws and 0 goals scored in 3 games of pool play.
I wouldn't be too concerned about the Bangu 13's.
This is the 1st time this age group in Minnesota has played 11 v 11.
The competition they faced has experience at 11 v 11.
This group will be a force come State Cup time.
the bangu 13's played 11v11 all summer last year. what are you talking about 6:41??
Don't they still play 8v8 at U12?
Inferno and Stars both win their flights. The U13-15 teams went 2-0-1 in their consolation friendlies on Sunday so seemed to right the ship somewhat.
On a side note regarding most of the top U15 and U16 teams being in a separate flight and playing their National League games. If this is the wave of the future, why would other quality teams go to these tournaments? Certainly not for the competition as it will not be good, it seems like the only motivation would be for college exposure. Is that enough?
most bangu teams play u13 when they are u12's in summer league play. this was the case for the now u13's. they have been playing 11v11 this winter in all their scrimmages. they got beat in vegas and it is not because they played 11v11!
For those of you who think that USCS is within light years of USYSA note the Vegas results of NORCAL Lamorinda, last years US Club U16 national champion. 0-3-1 with 3GF and 10 GA. They played in a lower flight with no ranked teams. USCS is at least 3 years away from being relevant.
anon 9:16,
How many scrimmages did that U13 team have this winter?
And how many of the players are the same as last years roster?
Seems you have all the answers and are the local expert on this team so we'll wait for your response.
Nope, not a local expert. I just know how to get online.
Fall NSC 11v11
12/1 13 vs. 14 green
12/14 13 vs. 14 white
1/11 13 vs. Eden Prairie
1/25 13 vs. 14 white
2/22 13 vs. Dakota Rev 14
3/2 13 vs. NSSA 14
3/5 13 vs. NSSA 14
Are the St. Cloud Friendlies 11v11?
Is this not the team that went premier from last summer season playing up to 13 11v11?
The majority of the u13 girls team played on the East U12 team that earned a premier spot last year. A few where added from the South team (I think two) that played 8v8 last year. They also added a few players from outside clubs.
My team have played them 4 times since last May. By MN standards they are a very good U13 team, and when the girls and the coach get used to eachother and playing really good teams the results will come out of state as well. It is also important to remember that the teams they played in Vegas are very good teams, because a team lose to a very good team does not mean that they are a bad team.
The St Cloud friendlies are 11v11 and they did well.
Don't think it is fair to compare them to last years 13's each team and each age group is different.
Swedish Smurf
In the NSC, USA Cup and State Cup and tournaments outside of Minnesota, the U13 Bangu blue team plays in their own age group. Last year, since fall of 2006, they have played up a year in MYSA league, so they have played a long time at 11 v 11.
By the way, there are two U12 Bangu teams playing U13 in league this year, both of which are playing in the State Cup at U13. They should be in the play-in game not Dakota Rev's U13 team.
There is actually three u12 teams in the State cup this year.
The REV team that U13 Blue plays in the play in game is a U12 team as well. They are playing up in the South district this season and did so in the fall as well.
Swedish Smurf
I've seen the Bangu 13's play and must agree with the Swedish Smurf that they're the team to beat this year.
Unless there's a well kept secret out there it will be hard to imagine any team I've seen beating them at State Cup.
I have seen the REV team play this year. They are a very good U12 team and well coached, need some work on skills but good size and speed. They will compete well but will not advance beyond the play-in game (IMO).
Wayzatta 1 EP 0 Midwest league U14
I agree with with anon 226, Dak Rev U12 team is very good, but Bangu U13 should win. Anything is possible. Bangu U12 East Blue and the Bangu U12 South Blue are both very good teams. This will be an exceptional team when they combine the best of both team next year. If this age group had combined this year I think they would have been a favorite to win it this year as true U12s. As is, I think both U12 teams have an outside chance.
anon 4:00
Seems boastfull at best about the U12's - new at 11v11 and smaller. Doesnt sound likely, they may beat some U13 teams but will have a tough time with the Premier squads that have been training all winter - good luck.
Has a U12 team ever won state cup?
I believe the Bangu Stars did it, but I could be wrong?
I think that was a different time and will likely not be repeated. Girls soccer is different now with Bangu and other community clubs training year round.
anon 423, Which teams are premier Squads at U13 in State Cup. Just Curious. I also believe there are several teams with an outside chance to win. Isn't this the first year for most of the teams playing to be playing 11 vs 11. Isn't U12 8v8. Last year it was a pretty much a foregone conclusion on who was going to win at U13. Th All it takes is one bad game or one bad bounce for a team to lose. Size only matters when the skills are the same.
Nomads
Top Fliggt
Bangu U14 White: 0-2-2 (lost Quarterfinal 1-0 to Palmdale thunder who is in championship game)
Second Flight
Bangu U14 Green: 2-1
U14 Eagan: 0-2-1 (had the two teams in the final in their group)
U15 Wayzata 0-3-0
U15 Bangu White 0-3-0
U15 EP 1-1-1
Lakeville U14 0-3 in Nashville
EP Wayzatta U14 Midwest league 0-1
Scrimmage Wings U14 Rev U14 1-3
Scrimmage REV U12 (plays U13) REV U14 C2 1-1
anon 423 or anyone,Which teams are premier squads at U13?? Also Boastful would be right if I was a parent on either team, which I am not. I was just stating my opinion based on all the games I watched at previous tournaments and leagues.
1:53 Exactly how many games of the 17 teams in this bracket have you seen play? Boastful is a polite descriptor
Atleast 13 of the teams. 14 if MUS is Minneapolis United.
The fact that the u13 bangu teams plays premier at U14. I also think that the teams at U13 right now that will be premier have a leg up on a U12 team that likely has players that cannot play with the better U13 teams, 11v11.
U13 State Cup:
Group A: Woodbury or Tonka (too close to call).
Group B: Bangu 14P (in a runaway)
Group C: Wings.
Group D: PSA.
Semis: Woodbury/Tonka; Bangu 14P.
Final: Bangu 14P in a close one.
Bangu have to be sure not to choke vs. DR in the play-in, but should run through their group and beat a good and well-coached Wings team in the semis. Despite Bangu'spoor showing in Vegas, they have an immense advantage in both talent and also experience at 11v11. Hopefully, they will be able to deal with the pressure.
Tonka have a very good reputation and they are capable of providing a great challenge to Bangu. However, watch out for Woodbury. They are the sleeper in the tournament, and they have the Inferno coach, too.
There may be 17 teams, but Bangu, Tonka, Woodbury, Wings and PSA are the only teams with a realistic shot to win this year.
U13 Girls bracket is up for grabs this year and will be fun to watch!
I agree with all 12:13 said. Wow, the WDB 13's have the Inferno coach? There is no way to count them out if that's true. They will be there at the end quite possibly. 9:38 nice try, As good as Wings, PSA, Tonka, and Woodbury are, this is the Bangu 13's Cup to lose. Any other team only has a shot if the Bangu team falters. They have the best players, coaches, training schedule. The rest are good but not there yet.
Ever notice that 90% of the talk on topics like this concerns the younger kids? An exception this year with SSM entering U18, but still more youngers discussion.
In response to anon 1:41.
My guess for the discussion about younger age groups is that people know less about U13 and u14 teams (accept MA's squad) than the older ages.
Also think that at U13 and U14 there are more roster changes from year to year than at the older ages.
A third reason can be that after two state cups people know who the usually suspects are and it is more fun to discuss teams that many may not know that much about.
Swedish Smurf
All good reasons but the most important being it is still all new and exciting to many of their parents and they like to hear and write about their dd's teams.
2:51 - what is a dd team?
The U13 age group has less talent than ages above and below!
Agree with anon 2:51
Also think that the reason for their excitement is that they don't know how good their daughters team is compared to the competition. For some state cup will be a good reality check.
Swedish Smurf
I am a mom of a Bangu U13 player, both last year and this year, so I do know some of the scoop. Many girls were on the U13 East Bangu team last year that earned a premier spot. The team picked up a goalie and a few girls from the south (who did not play 11 v. 11), and a few from Burnsville and Tonka. Bangu tryouts pose a dilemna - although girls are watched year around, there are always some wild cards at tryouts (at least at the younger ages). So, do you go with a 80-90% solution at tryouts, or do you go to pool play? Pool play means that you may lose some players and alienate others. With the current U13 team, I will not comment on technical ability, because I am not the expert. What you cannot accurately assess at 2 days of tryouts are discipline, commitment, and attitude. I think that is where the 10-20% (bubble players) may either make it or break it. Vegas was a great experience for them, and many teams did not even earn an invitation. A few of the games could have gone either way. The girls have worked hard this winter, but, in my opinion, tend to play to the level of their opponent. At the St. Cloud friendlies, they beat PSA U 13 1-0 then lost to Wayazata U14 0-1 the next day. Go figure.
And as for Swedish Smurf, thanks for keeping this real - you are the Paula Abdul of MN Soccer Blogs!
Anon 2:59 How did you come to your expert assessment of the U13 age group? Seems the talent of this age group is spread out over many teams. Maybe they are just smarter than some age groups and stayed at a good CC or other club than go to Bangu for tryouts. Some at tryouts even walked away from being on the blue team - wow!
Give them a few years..Nothing wrong with staying with your CC club at this age. Look at Eclipse, they dont start doing well till U15 at the earlist.
Is DD's - Daddy's Darlings
ANON 614: Good teams don't play down to inferior teams levels. If they do then they are not a good team. Saying they play to the level of their competition is an excuse for playing bad and not winning. You beat PSA because your team is better then them. You lost to Wayzata because they are better. It is that simple. It also sounds like you have an issue with some of your new players or as you call them, bubble players. It sounds like you think you have discipline, attitude, and commitment issues. These also could be another excuse for not doing well in Vegas.
In addition your team did not earn an invitation to Vegas. You got in based on your clubs reputation.
... which, in my book, is a very good reason to be in a club like Bangu.
People can come in here and posture all they want.
But take a look at who the champions are after State Cup has ended.
The results will be very similar to what they were last year.
Winning programs draw the top talent to their teams. That's just the way it is.
Couple that with top flight training and you get consistent results at State Cup year after year.
So what is Bangu mom saying? Tryouts didn't work out this year? Did better at Vegas than scores indicate? Unpredictable team? That's a strange entry. When you take the top players from Burnsville and Tonka, does that mean that you did not get the people you wanted (those are very good players that will be missed by their former teams...I've seen them)? I heard there were rampant issues between the players/parents and coach at Vegas. That's the problem with expectations: Lots of pressure on 13-year olds. Maybe Dakota Rev has an opportunity to really shake up the U13 draw. Good luck, gu girls.
My contention all along, why are U13 teams going to Las Vegas, Nomads and other challanging, expensive tournaments? Dosent make sense. Take all that money and put it to better use for your team at U15 and above. Milwaukee and Chicago are better at 1/3rd the cost. It would be nice to see some clubs get more creative in their choices.
great point 9:25. no reason at u13 to be going so far out when you can get good tournaments near home like Iowa and Illinios.
I can see going to more expensive tournament if you can't find the competition in the local tournaments or tournaments in Iowa, Wisconsin, or Illinois. How have the U13's done in their other tournaments besides Vegas. Since the majority of the team played together last year how did they do as U12's?
I have no idea what it cost per player for a tournament like Vegas or Nomads. How ever an educated guess from talking to parents would be between $500-600 per player.
I am not a big supporter of them you travel far to play 3-4 games in a short period of time usually a weekend.
The idea of a out of town trip for me (except JFG that is done in preparation for state cup and the up comming season) is to make sure the players have a blast both on and off the field.
Players will not remember the score in a certain game years from now but they will remember fun things they did and places they visited with their friends while they where on a soccer trip
Took a U15 team to Pikes Peak in CO last year and that was not cheap per player. My guess is that the cost with airline tickets, hotel rooms, food and excursions was some where around $900 per player for 6 days.
This year the REV U14 team that I coach will travell to Denmark for the Dana Cup No1 (different than Dana Cup, we choose this one because we hope to participate in state and if we had played Dana Cup we would have missed state) and to Sweden for the Gothia cup.
This trip will cost each player roughly $2100 plus spending money. Included in that price is air line tickets transportation, tournament fee's lodging and three meals a day for 13 of the 15 days.
For example the Gothia cup cost roughly $300 per player with three meals a day lodging tournament fee's and a lot more. Last year the team played USA cup and we paid $125 per player for three games against MN teams and one game against a team from Washington.
I know Blackhawks try to do a similar trip for their u16 teams each year and I think this is a great idea.
I wish more teams skip a few out of town tournaments over two years (can still play JFG or chill out to get ready for state cup and the season we are) and plan a trip that players will remember and learn from.
http://www.gothiacup.se/eng/
http://www.danacup.pp.se/eng/index.htm
We organized the trip on our own and as a result we pay about $900 less per player than we would have paid if we had used a a soccer tour company.
If anyone is has questions and would like to look into something similar for next year let me know and I be glad to share what I have learned and how we went about it.
Swedish Smurf
miac fan said...
People can come in here and posture all they want.
But take a look at who the champions are after State Cup has ended.
The results will be very similar to what they were last year.
Winning programs draw the top talent to their teams. That's just the way it is.
Couple that with top flight training and you get consistent results at State Cup year after year.
until you go to Regionals and get beat by Eclipse, Hawks, Ohio Elite
Its the same ole rat race every year.
Agree with MIAC FAN and when it is all said and done it will be Bangu att all ages except two maybe three.
However Do not think that the early season tournaments are needed to win state cup, the bottom line is that the teams that win state cup are usually the best/most talented teams and they can prepare well close to home.
At the same time it makes sence that older teams let's say 16 and up to go to winter tournaments so those players can bee seen by school's outside of MN and the surounding states if this is what the players and parents want.
Imagine how much training/scrimmage time a team can by for the money they spend on one out of state tournament in the winter.
Don't think a December trip will decide how good a team is in April. Will March trip help maybe.
Another factor is that many teams that win state cup play Midwest league, so maybe the out fo state march tournaments are more in preparation for midwest league than state cup.
Midwest league is a good prepartion for State Cup. Good compettion fairly close to home (for most teams)
Ulitmately it is up to each club/team the coaches and parents to discuss and decide what they think is best for the players development and overall soccer experience.
Swedish Smurf
anon 12:20,
It's always gonna be hard to beat the states with double our population and ability to play outdoors a few more months than us.
Do you have any suggestions how to overcome the issue of beating Ohio, Illinois and Michigan?
Maybe if we just let the kids stay in their community clubs like 10 years ago? When we were lucky to score a goal at regions much less win a game? Remember those days?
At least last year we had a region 2 champion. Oh yeah, we had a girls team in the national finals 2 consecutive years back in 2002 and 2003 I believe.
I'm open for suggestion...got any?
The only way to compete at the highest level is consolidate the top talent from the metro area. Unfortunately there is a lot of anomosity between clubs and CC's. CC's have begun to offer more year round training in hopes to keep their better players. In my opinion this is great for the average player but no so good for the top players in the long run. Nothing against the coaches of these teams. For the top players to reach their potential they must be surrounded by the other top talent and usually one community may have only one of these type players. That is why I hope the Thunder Development plan happens. If we want to compete at the highest level this is the only way it can happen. You can be the greatest coach in world, but if you don't have the players you can't compete.
Bangu U14,U17,U18 and WBY U16 have all proven they can compete and win at the highest level. The key is consolidating talent as these teams have done. As the training given younger players improves MN should continue to get better. Is Bangu at the level of an Eclipse or Hawks? No, they may never be, but they certainly are on a par with anyone else in the region and should continue to improve. We will never have the population base to consistently play age level to age level with the likes of Eclipse or Hawks, but we are right there with Carmel, SLSC, FC, OESA and the rest of the regions second tier. This is only if talent continues to be brought together on one or at most two teams.
2:30 is exactly right. However i would like to see it done under the Thunder umbrella. Too much envy and distrust of bangu for them to get the job done long term, especially with regard to field space.
I keep reading about MN doesnt have the numbers that Eclipse or Hawks do, How can that be?? You have tons of kids in the twin cities. 2:14 said it all, The DOC's and coaches want to keep the best players. How selfish is this? its all about winning instead of development with these zip code clubs.
anon 4:01,
Chicago metro is about 10,000,000 population. Detroit metro area is about 6,000,000. The Twin Cities metro is about 3,000,000.
More total population = more kids = more soccer players.
To Anon 4:01
No club can stop a player from leaving in the long run. As far as I know a player will go and play where he or she want too.
Even if we had a team where the top 18 players could play does not mean that they want to play their.
I personal want MN to do well and I support the Thunder proposal.
However it is really no different from how it works today at 13 and older. The difference is how to develop ages 12 and younger.
Strong teams will contact strong players to see if they are interested in playing with them. If they say yes good if they say no fine, but DON'T BLAME THE CC'S FOR IT.
Each player and his or her familly will make the decision based on what they they think is best for them.
Swedish Smurf
Hmmm...Cuba population 12,000,000, the US population around 300,000,000. The US has roughly 25 times Cuba's population. In a recent Mens National team game:
USA U23 1
Cuba U23s 1
And Cuba did outplay the US for about 50% of the game. The US coaching structure at all levels is more about politics and glad handing. Not to mention that not many quality people can make a living coaching youth soccer.
I could take a U23 team with all Minnesota players, train them for 2 weeks, and beat USMNT U23s.
Smurf you are right, no club can stop a kid from leaving in the long run, but they can sure be a hinderance and make it very uncomfortable for players and parents that do. A lot of the ones that do get treated like the plague from the former CC. Wouldn't it be great if they worked together to get the best kids on the same team. I have never heard of a CC telling a parent "your child has a lot of potential and they would be better off playing with a team of similar skilled players" I'm not saying it has never happened but if the coach really had the best interest in mind for that child they would. I would bet more would get involved with a premier club if their CC coach suggested it. Also you said "most will make the decision based on what they think is best for them". Unfortunately most parents don't know that much about the soccer community and they then go to their current coach and ask him his opinion. Of course what do you think he says " we do year round training also" Some don't realize that year round training can only be as good as the other kids you are training with. Also I disagree with your statement that it currently works at the U13 age group. There are so many players currently on different teams that this is not what is happening. Smurf you said you support the Thunder initiative. Has your club decided? Any insight would be appreciated! Some people have been talking about our lack of population being the issue. I also disagree with that. There was an article a while ago on Go Sports Life talking about how a small country (Maybe Denmark if I remember right) and how they are able to produce more top teams and players compared to other European countries who had way more people playing soccer. If we want to compete I believe we can and should but The first step is to get as much of the talent together as possible. The Thunder Plan sounds like a great start.
Yea, I was going to say, if you cant do something with 3m, but Des Moines and Omaha can do almost as good as MN does, something is wrong. Is the Twin Cities bigger than Cincy where Ohio Elite runs out of??
LOL we do much better than NE and IA and as well or better than OESA.
Lst years State Cup champs U13-18 at regionals
MN 12-4-4
NE 4-11-3
IA 3-14-1
OHS 10-7-1
Anything else?
anon 907...
What do you mean rampant issues? There was no such thing as "rampant issues between the players/parents and coach at Vegas." You weren't there, You can't just throw something like that out without specifics. I was there and I can tell you no such "rampant issues" existed.
The coach of this team is a well respected, talented coach. And as a parent on this team I can tell you most parents support him, respect the way he approaches the game and are impressed with the way he relates tot he girls.
So before you start trying to tear down the team by making such statements, have your facts straight.
anon 6:25,
Relax...guys like anon 12:20 and 8:02 don't have a clue. They're the ones jealous of certain clubs and teams for one reason or another.
It's probably the same guy bashing Minnesota for lack of success at regions...but didn't know of the great record Minnesota teams had at regions last year.
He probably didn't realize that since 2002 Minnesota had more teams winning Region 2 titles than Wisconsin, Missouri, Iowa, ND, SD, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, Ohio North or Ohio South.
He's ignorant of the fact the Tsunami girls in 2002 and 2003 won regions and went to the Championship game both years.
He's ignorant of the fact the Super Eagles won regions and went to nationals 2 years ago.
And even ignorant of the fact that the Bangu Tsunami U13 girls won Region 2 just last summer.
Let fools like him wallow in his ignorance and jealousy.
anon 730...
Well put and I'll take your advice "relaxing"
Uffda!
Good post regarding Minnesota's relative success in recent years compared to most of of the other Region II states. We have had 4 teams win Region 2 championships in the last 6 years! When has that happened before?
We aren't there with the Illinois and Michigans yet but the improvement in the level of soccer this decade has been dramatic.
We can thank the Tsunami teams, the Wings, St Croix, Super Eagles and Bangu for pushing the envelope and showing all of us what it takes to compete regionally and nationally.
We know we can succeed if we do the right things.
Whether we like to acknowledge the success of the clubs I've noted let's be honest. We now have dozens of community clubs setting up winter training programs, traveling to winter tournaments, hiring more professional trainers etc just like the clubs who led the way.
Hats off to progress. Let's hope it doesn't stall.
Maybe the new Thunder owners can help us along to continued development and progress. They seem to have a vision and the means to make it happen. They have great local soccer people leading the way. They don't get any better than Manny and Amos.
In addition to success at regionals we have had teams have success at major invitational tourneys. Usually these tournaments have stronger fields than regionals do. The top teams in this state are just as strong as any except for a handful. That doesn't mean there isn't lots of room for improvement, there is, but we are doing OK. One thing is lack of depth, in most cases we only have one team that can compete with the best teams, we should be able to field at least two. With the new training programs in place it is just a matter of time.
7:30 and 8:49 =MA. Easy to tell by the friendly approach and the self back-up. Marktiple personalities is back!
anon 10:13,
You must be the guy with the kid who couldn't make Abboud's team!
Easy to tell! ;-)
Again with the "you're jealous," cc's can't service top players and the join the Thungu banner blarney? It must be State Cup (or tryout) season. I think it's amazing that the Bang-u and (by implication) Plunder leaders take these tacks as their main effort to entice the other clubs in the area to join them. How many months have you been doing this? How many clubs are joining you? Perhaps it's time to look at yourself and your strategy and understand that any rational thought here would dictate that one come to the conclusion that it can't be just the dozens of ignorant, selfish DOC's that stand in your way. We're talking a life down the rabbit hole perspective if you can't realize that MYSA and virtually every local club are vehemently opposed to this venture as long as Bangu is in charge. Will that stop the venture? No. However, there has been no visible commitment from any club in the months since they cooked this up now, and the best they can do to keep it alive is to write on here every day, thereby reinforcing all of the concerns about the rationale anyway. Thungu? Brilliant!
"10:22"
My kid has not tried out for your team :) Not good enough? No, that's not it either. Really good try, though!
Anon 10:37, CC's absolutely can not service the top players to the level that a club can. No disservice is meant to their coaches abilities. A lot of the coaches from the CC's are just as good and some are probably better, the difference is the talent level on the teams. CC's typically draw from a smaller pool of players were clubs have a larger pool to draw from. I thought it was common knowledge for any sport that not only must you have a good coach but also good teammates to train with and against. I guess not.
Thungu, huh? Well, he who laughs last...
Come back in a month or so.
Monikers and comments like that are just another reason why the soccer community will not join your plan.
anon 10:42,
Your obsession with MA has been noticed by many bloggers and we all agree it's getting a bit creepy.
If the reason isn't that your daughter couldn't make his team then it must be something else quite personal.
Were you one of MA's groupies from his playing days with the Thunder? Did you ask MA out for a date and he rejected your overture?
MA is married these days with a beautiful baby girl and I'm guessing your heartbreak over this is causing your obsession.
Please seek help from a qualified therapist to get you past this unhealthy fixation.
There's a lot more to life than obsessing and pining over unrequited love.
10:13, 10:37, 2:26
First, it's not my program.
Second, my moniker is a shot at myself, not at you.
Third, it's angry, selfish, narrow minded people/coaches/club decision makers who help ensure your club, and Minnesota soccer for that matter, will always be behind the curve playing catch up.
Try to figure out how to take a moniker if you can. We'll revisit this all again in a month or two. Until then I'll wish your club luck. If you're calling the shots... they'll need it. =-)
2:52,
Wow. It looks from here like you probably justified 10:42 with that Freudian outburst. So this means if you're not jealous and you don't have a kid cut by or not good enough to make an MA team, then you must be attracted to MA? That's a pretty big leap (and awfully egocentric). Could it be that there are people out there that actually have a legitimate dislike for his methods and those of his club? No, I guess not. Too funny. Could be MA again, I suppose. Wait, he swore off writing on this blog (but maybe that was only one of him).
People are free to dislike other people, other clubs, other methods, etc. It's universal.
My two cents is this - I feel the people posting here don't like MA because they feel threatened by him/his club. He's sharper and more soccer savvy than most, he's had success, and he is constantly bucking the trend. This doesn't lend to many fans outside of his circle of involvement and his circle of involvement will never be large as he's obviously focused on a very small percentage of soccer players.
People take shots at him all the time. He's human and I'm sure his decision to leave blogs like this was due in part to not wanting to subject himself to the constant onslaught that had to be wearing. I could be wrong.
Some of you people need to get over him, his club, his methods. The simple fact is that if you are losing players to his programs step up what you're doing. You discredit all the parents who have made choices to join by claiming that it has everything to do with him and that the parents were somehow bamboozled.
He has been the common denominator (not the ONLY denominator) in arguably the top u11 - u16 girls teams in this state, in Woodbury's success while he was there, in the most nationally competitive club MN has ever had, and now in the youth development initiative led by the state's professional organization. Like him or not he is helping all of us elevate the game.
Oh, by the way, I'm not MA though I've had a player on on of his teams and have known him for a long time. I believed in him before I knew him, still believe in him now that I'm no longer with him, and will believe in any soccer initiative he is involved with.
Funny how so many people whine about MA's "methods" and the "methods" of the Bangu club...then go out and mimic them as they play catch up in the race for success.
Too funny.
Exactly. Look at MU.
Imitation = acknowledgement
I find it interesting that so many are giving MA credit for inventing the wheel. He and Bangu have certainly given other clubs reason to reelavuate what they do to train and retain high level players. I would not say however that the CC clubs are copying training methods that have been out there for decades.
I will give MA cudos for helping the CC realize that they need to pay more attention the the high level players and begin quaility training at youger age levels.
The Academy so far has produced 3 teams that came through the system, Bangu U13-U15. Does anyone think these teams are better than the best MN teams at U16-U18? Didn't think so. These teams have been more successful out of state than any of the academy teams to date. Bangu 17 and WDB 16 also did as well or better at the younger ages, although success prior to U15 is not as important as after. Other than these three teams we have had Tsunami Sota, St Croix Eclectic and Elite, and other teams that have done well. One region championship due in large part to a fortunate draw does not make a system great. I support what MA and Bangu are doing but so far the success is due as much to consolidating talent as anything. The test will be when MN can field multiple nationally competitive teams in each age group. Until that happens we really have not done anything we haven't before. . Will this happen? I think so if people unite and support it. From what I read on here we are not close to that happening.
12:01, CC's can pay as much attention to high level players as they want, but it is still not enough for those players, they need better teammates to train against and play with. They will not get this with their community clubs. To be your best you need to play and train with the best possible.
9:30 and 11:51,
12:01 is absolutely right. MA and company have invented nothing. They deserve credit for drawing attention to the possibilities, but his efforts to paint others as jealous of his work is sickening at best.
7:18,
Even if one agrees with your premise, the problem is still who is running the show. The Wings/Wayzata US Club Soccer model will suffice nicely and set an example of how area clubs can embrace an extra layer of training (and playing with high-level players) without all of the antics associated with the Bangu types. In addition, parents will like this better, too, as the costs will likely be more transparent and affordable (if done properly, it will limit recruiting, as this venture is not about players changing clubs).
He can take credit for getting the ball rolling, but that will be small consolation a few years down the road.
6:02, I have a daughter in the East Academy. I feel you are marginalizing the U14's achievement. They won regions. Instead of tearing down and minimizing their accomplishments give them some credit. You may think they had a fortunate draw, but the the fact remains the same, they won! The teams you think who would have been tougher competition didn't get that far, they lost. Either they aren't as good as you thought or the 14's are maybe better than you think. I tend to think it's some of both. I do agree that it is important to consolidate and a lot has to do with Bangu teams success in Minnesota tournaments, but for Out of State Tournaments it has nothing to do with consolidation but mostly coaching as in the other top teams in other states have the same consolidated talent.
I thought the U14 age group was the first team through the academy????? Not sure!! Bangu has consolidated a lot of talent and potential in the U9-U12 age groups. Time will only tell how they are measured against the older teams. I don't know much about the U15 team but how can you say the U14's don't stack up against the U16-U18. You said the 16's and 17's have done better out of state when they were younger than the Academy teams. What did they win at the younger ages? How did they fare in their out of state excursions?? It sounds like you are comparing the different age groups and pitting one group against the other. The younger age groups have benefitted from the success of the U 14's. We had a huge tryout at the u9 -u12 age groups. Some of that turn out can be linked to the U14's success and also the play of the current teams at those age groups. You also claim to support what MA and Bangu is doing but then trash his achievements.
806 I will agree that 602 minimizes the U14 achievement at regions unnecessarily, they don't control who they play, all they can do is defeat the opponent that shows up to play them. However, the rest of the post is spot on. Since you are questioning what the current U16 and 17 teams accomplished when young it is obvious you are new to the larger soccer world. I believe the post said "as well or better" Do your research and you will find that to be true. I agree with the basic premise, it is too early to declare the academy a great success. It may prove to be in the future.
I also agree in large part with what 6:02 and 8:44 said with the caveat that MA was also very involved with the current inferno team at a young age and I believe also worked with the stars on occasion. So those two teams are not as "unacademy" as it seems.
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