With the successful and exciting conclusion of the High School state tournament, we can now turn our attention to club soccer. I’m sure many teams are already training and preparing for holiday tournaments, spring tournaments, Midwest Regional League and even State Cup.
Please refrain from using this post as a place to attack players, coaches and clubs. I know that many are getting tired of seeing threads turn into exchanges between angry people. Try to focus on the positives in youth soccer and the contributions of clubs, coaches, parents and MYSA.
782 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 782 of 782anon 3:33
ROTFLMAO
You have obviously been brain-washed by MYSA!!! So you can't be called premier until you are U14? Premier is an arbitrary designation, in this case the top level of play and it has nothing to do with age...
Let me know if you need a picture or diagram...
It still seems to me that the Thunder copied and pasted the same information which was put forward when SSM and the Thunder combined to form the current system at SSM. My question is, what happened to this relationship? Did the Thunder pull out, or SSM? Just seems like history repeating itself. However, I would like to say that I think it is a great thing for soccer in Minnesota. For the players in MN to have the opportunities that TRUE Academies have to offer is a great opportunity for all--residential program or not.
By the way, USCS has the same recruiting policies as USYS....NONE. There is no Nationally dictated policy against recruiting in USYS. There are however, provisions allowing the State Associations to put thier own policies in place regarding recruiting. However, State Associations have no jurisdiction and little recourse over those who are not affiliates of that State.
Also, there is no current plan and very little talk about EVER forming a US Academy system on the girls side. Not gonna happen, no way, no how.
campus I know you have researched the recruiting issue extensively both from your posts here and on bigsoccer and would have to agree. I also agree on the girls academy not taking hold. There just seems to be no reason for females to go to an academy type format. There really is no pro league to speak of and so the biggest prize is a college scholarship for almost all players. They can get that at any high level major club. Academies are a good thing for gifted players from areas without a top level club team to play for, such as Iowa, but their appeal will be limited for players from large metropolitan areas. SSM and IMG etc should be able to continue to keep their programs going, but I dont see many more of their kind coming along on the girls side, and definitely no widespread USSF program.
ssm-sc,
since your obviously on the inside - whats with the mass defections from the ssm girls program??? seems like anyone who is there more than a year is about as common as say, a unicorn, or bigfoot. 4 more left over xmas break, word is another 6 at the end of the year? there are ZERO players there from the original group two years ago??? am I misinformed (and if I am please by all means set it straight).
can you share some insight?
8:28 am
Four did leave at Christmas time for sure with another junior leaving last week. Had not really heard the numbers for the end of the year yet though so your SIX is news to me though not unexpected. I think a lot of issues come into play including but not limited to simple homesickness, girls accomplishing their goal of getting a scholarship, different treatment of players based upon their "status" in the program, medical issues, typical HS issues of drugs and alcohol, and as time intensive as school and soccer can be, there ends up being a lot of down time where they simply are bored. Anyway, a lot of issues with no one to really blame. Just people finding out that the life of a boarding student just might not be to their liking.
Seems to me that the biggest issue regarding retention at SSM is that too many kids are going there for the wrong reasons.
Wrong reason #1 - attending SSM to get a college scholarship. Of course kids who go to Shattuck just to get a D1 offer are going to leave - they accomplished what they set out to do. Why wouldn't they go back home for the last year of high school with their friends? Especially for those kids who have only been at SSM for a year or two (basically all the soccer players), they have no loyalty to the program. Why would they?
Wrong reason #2 - to turn little Suzy into little Mia. SSM will provide good training, a good education, and a chance to meet other kids from all over the world - but it won't turn little Suzy into the next Mia Hamm. Nobody can. I actually had a parent tell me last year that they were going to yank their kid from the program if they didn't make the national ODP team that year. Guess what happened?
Wrong reason #3 - to have someone else keep an eye on their wild one. Some of the kids that have had behavioral problem left home with those problems. SSM does provide structure, but as has been noted, if they are looking for trouble, just like anywhere, they will find it.
Wrong reason #4 - Dad or Mom is making the decision. Enough said. Of course these kids won't last long.
If your kid wants to expand their horizons by meeting new friends from all over the world, and if they realize that the first priority at ANY school is education, all while being able to indulge their passion, then they will want to stay at Shattuck. Of course, it should go without saying, that the parents have to realize these same things.
I'll disagree with something SSM-South Campus said on another thread. These kids are not leaving behind everything they know and love. Hopefully, they love soccer, making new friends, and learning new things. Those kids will stay.
SSM will improve their retention for the long run only IF they focus their recruiting on younger ages (so they build some loyalty to the program before they get that D1 offer) and tell parents that they WILL NOT turn their kid into a soccer star.
In case anyone is wondering, MU has their tryout dates for the 2009 season already posted. Why not include dates through 2012 just to be sure that your players don't jump ship? lol
Bangu has pushed the envelop by holding their tryouts early for their year round Academy. Many others are following. Is this a good thing for MN soccer or are we all just pushing our kids too far to fast? Does this show other clubs are following the lead and moving to more official year round training or is it more for player retention? I've already heard rumblings within the MU club that the club is too elite focused all all the age groups. Is the Bangu-way the right way for all? I don't think so but I'd be interested for the sake of some civil discussion in hearing from NON-BANGU people (no offense Bangoos, but I know where you guys stand) about this.
no response from ssm-sc, how clinton-like, dodge the tough ones, hit the easy ones.
No response from me because I was out of the country for work. I will also tell you that I am not "inside" the U18 team....mine is younger. I do know some of the reasons that some left, but not all. As stated earlier, some left because it just wasn't right for them for various personal reasons that aren't my place to disclose.
I am sure I have said this before, but will say it again....a boarding experience is NOT for everyone. Some recognize it earlier than others. All I can say for sure is that my kid will be there as long as the program allows her to stay.
Why should a kid stay in the program after they accept thier scholarship? That is a simple answer....because the accepting college coaches expect the players to continue to develop. They aren't signing kids for thier current skill sets, but rather speculating that they will continue to get better. Leaving the program once they sign could be disastrous to thier playing time and ability to contribute to thier college team. This is common knowledge, do some homework or write a D1 coach and ask them about this.
I resent any references to me being "Clinton-like"..... I have never dodged any question put to me. Nice try though, anon. How about you attach your name to your statements so we can call you out by name? Have some courage......
right... ssm-south campus... because that's "putting your name" to your posts. The anonymous have no right to complain about the anonymous.
I see your point on the boarding school "not for everyone argue," but honestly, there's more to the story. The turnover on the girls side is quite remarkable when compared to hockey, or even the boys soccer there.
something is out of place.
Look, how muchmore can I say about my identity? For crying out loud! Let me help to connect the dots. There is a wonderful thing about the internet, you can look at any roster you choose which is posted. A quick google search will find the SSM website. Once there, remember that I have said numerous times I am from Iowa. Couple that with the fact that my daughter is not on the U18 team, as stated about 10 minutes ago. That kind of only leaves one team SHE could be on. Once one goes to the roster, one could easily figure all this out.
All I am saying is to have some accountability and put a moniker to a post. Atleast then, everyone can tell who is saying what. It can be quite difficult to follow a conversation where no one is identified even if by a made up name.
As far as about something being out of place, I would say you are right. And those that are "out of place" are moving on to where they are "in place". Not my business or my area of knowledge, and I would argue not anyone else's either. All I can say is that it seems to me that the U16 team all has thier heads on straight and seem to be fine. Sure, there are problems....most of which are normal HS girl issues.
anon 11:50...you seem to be harping on the turnover rate for the U-18 girls...I have a daughter on that team and really resent blanket statements like yours...I would bet that the turnoever rate has alot to do with kids that really want to be there vs kids that can always get out...If my daughter want's to leave, and I believe this is how most parents feel, then she can leave...this is different than being at a pubic schoold where you don't have that out...SSM is not for everyone..this is not a right or wrong statement...just fact..from the play I saw last weekend, the team contiues to improve....maybe some of you anons should see the team play before you start ripping on them...
anon 11:50...you seem to be harping on the turnover rate for the U-18 girls...I have a daughter on that team and really resent blanket statements like yours...I would bet that the turnoever rate has alot to do with kids that really want to be there vs kids that can always get out...If my daughter want's to leave, and I believe this is how most parents feel, then she can leave...this is different than being at a pubic schoold where you don't have that out...SSM is not for everyone..this is not a right or wrong statement...just fact..from the play I saw last weekend, the team contiues to improve....maybe some of you anons should see the team play before you start ripping on them...
Anon 8:57AM - With a daughter on the U18 team you are obviously well aware of most of the issues surrounding the program and the team itself. Many of the issues have already been stated here as summarized numerous times but being close to the team you are also aware there are issues that will never be spoken about on this site. I think anon 1150 realizes that and desires answers. When all is said and done there is no doubt that the turnover rate for the girls program is far in excess of what is acceptable or would be indicated for long term survival of a high caliber boarding program.
anon 9:13..I disagree with about the issues not being stated on this site and the other one......ssm will always be an easy target for the naysayers..which is ok...it is what it is..the problem is that you never hear the positiives..like I said..that team is getting good...the play fast paced soccer..so if you are going to bash then you need to give props as well...for our family, ssm has been a good experience...now, with that being said you can argue about the boarding school thing left and right...but my daughter would be at a private school regardless for personal reasons...that she is at ssm was just a good fit...My experience in talking with collegee coach's has been only positive..I would venture to say that the kid's that finish there will be well prepared for college and have a much smaller degree of transfers which has directly equated to a large turnover rate in the college ranks...
It also seems like most on this sight knows more about the teams training schedule than the players do. How can any of you talk about 9 months of training when you have NO idea how much they train. They have down time, they also have peak training sessions. But then again, Im sure you all know this since your all the 1st to talk about how they never peak.
She trained just as much at home prior to coming to Shattuck. Its funny, Penn State, Texas, Notre Dame, they all seem to be training year round.
Another thing, talking about the turnover rate. Whats it to you anyway?? You all spend more time in thinking of the next state of the union address about Shattuck than you do with your own little CC zip code clubs. Last time I checked, Univ of MN is having a mass exit of players, since your all in the know, whats up with that?
hey anons - the real point of taking a moniker is to at least be able to identify arguments being made by different people. At least that way you are taking a stance for your arguments and the points you are trying to make.
You can post as a anon at 3:15 but the next time you respond 8 hours later you are 11:15 with about 5-6 anons between that time. How do we know it is a follow-up answer and not someone else? We don't.
At least put a false name behind your points of debate so we can follow the thought process and consistency of your argument.
I can see it now anon 1115 formerly anon315 formerly 1/30/2008 anon 734
I think MA's team would burry most state ODP teams that are a year older. you're getting a little too excited about the quality of state ODP teams, when I was a state ODP coach (and I LIKE my anonymity so I won't tell you which state, except to say its more of a soccer state than MN) we used to get smacked around by the top clubs in our state.
you're talking about a regional champion - they are better than most of the state teams out there. by a wide margin
11:43 - some people have more information than you think.
mnsoccer- you know what lazy will get you don'tcha? ......a well deserved nap.
good hearing from you again.
1033pm, what, are you CIA? Do you REALLY care that much in the happings at Shattuck. Get a real life.
1033pm, Yea, some of these people if there were a radio call in show would sit around on their cells for hours to be able to get 2 mins to bash Shattuck. They do seem to know more about the program than the players do themselves.
MYSA has an opening for Dir of Technical Development? Whose position is this? Does anyone know that we are paying for an additional headcount or replacing an existing position?
replacing a current position. The old one was promoted to State Dir of Coaching.
is the silliness over yet....
I don't think there is any known cure
It's amazing how worked up we all get over a few kids kicking a ball back and forth hoping that it goes in some netting. Here is my bias; I support the Thunder, Lightning, ODP, Bangu, Community Clubs and, yes, even SSM. I don't agree with any of these groups in totality, but I accept them for the entities which they are and the opportunities they provide for the kids. It's a lot easier to tear something down than to build something up. Imagine if we all put this much energy towards spending time with our kids. I'm pretty sure none of them feel that the apocolypse is upone us because one club or another is doing something different. Again, they just want to play a game where they kick a ball back and forth and hope that it goes in the netting once in a while.
old school.....very, very well put. Great post, seems to make more sense than anything I have read in a while.
Now, can we talk about something that makes a difference?
The Arsenal SE U16 Team has been harshly & unjustly denied MYSA premier status. This is political at best, and only serves to punish the boys on the team who have no idea of the games that adults play.
Shame on MYSA and the DOC.
Say what you what about ARS SE, but 10:12am is correct. I did some checking and can't see how MYSA cannot include this team into the MN Prmr league. Personal opinions on coaching shouldn't enter into this. This team's resume should simply speak for itself. Since U13, it has won its division/league 3 years in a row, was a finalist in U13 State Cup, then won 2 consecutive State Cups, was a regional semi-finalist two years in a row, has been rated 4th in Region II, and 16th nationally. It wouldn't surprise me to see those egos at MYSA place this team at C3, which if I bet they would forego. The statement which 10:12am makes, "his is political at best, and only serves to punish the boys on the team who have no idea of the games that adults play," hit it spot on.
Right 11;36 and 10:12. Ridiculous decisions like these by MYSAare why other states think of Mn soccer as the doormat of this sport.
I though ARS SE was in the USYSA National League. Based on MYSA rules as they apply to the MRL, the team would have to petition to get its spot back in the State Premier league. Based on the recent enforcement of some anti-Bangu rules, where roster between MRL and Premier must be basically the same, it would be difficult to allow this team back into the premier league.
The 16 and 17 boys age group is where teams built on athletic prowess tend to fall back to the pack. I would expect the same for ARS SEs as they have certainly had, by far, the most athletic team at the age group.
12:48, could you be specific about the "MYSA rules as they apply to the MRL?" Any insight on this is appreciated. The SE are also in the MWL, premier division for the second year in a row. So, that is still the same.They have one team with the same kids playing in each of these leagues, not separate teams with different players. Maybe that's what you're referring to?
MYSA's rationale:
Rationale: Club jumping is a concern based on the list of players provided.
Looked all over the MYSA Rules and could not find "Club Jumping"...
The rules are very clear to everyone except MYSA. I may read the following rule 100 times and still come to the same conclusion.
11.3 Teams Playing in the US Youth Soccer National League-Midwest Region
a Teams that played in the US Youth Soccer National League-Midwest Region in the previous season and that finished first or second in the previous MYSA State Cup competition will be accepted into a Premier league.
b. A team that played the previous year in the US Youth Soccer National League-Midwest Region that wishes to play in a Premier league must apply to the Vice President of Leagues before the published deadline.
c. The league will be expanded as necessary to accommodate any accepted team.
Congrats to these SSM players.
Eleven Shattuck-St. Mary’s School Soccer Academy Players Selected to US Youth Soccer Regional Olympic Development Teams Competing in International Competition
Players to compete in Austria, Costa Rica, France, Germany and Spain during February and March
Faribault, MN (February 8, 2008) – Eleven Shattuck-St. Mary’s Soccer Academy players have been selected to represent the United States Youth Soccer Association (USYSA) as a member of a Regional Olympic Development Team. Players selected have been chosen to age group teams representing the region where they have been identified through the Olympic Development Program (ODP) process.
The regional teams will represent the USYSA in various competitions held in each of the countries visited. The purpose of these regional trips is to provide exposure to top level international competition in order to promote the growth and development of the American player. Teams will compete in tournaments or in games against reserve or youth teams from foreign professional clubs. During these trips players are observed by US Soccer Federation National Team coaches or US Youth Soccer Regional coaches for possible further selection to a US Soccer National Team.
Tim Carter, the former Director of Youth Development for the U.S. Soccer Federation understands the importance of these international encounters. “These opportunities are essential for player growth and development,” said Carter, who now is Shattuck-St. Mary’s School Soccer Academy Director of Soccer. “Our players learn so much during these tours. They are forced to compete in an environment where soccer is a dominant way of life within that particular culture and the opposing players are attempting to carve out a future as a professional. The games are quicker, the refereeing different and the intensity is much higher. Players have to think and play at a higher speed because of the increased pressure in order to be successful”
These events are sanctioned by the U.S. Soccer Federation (USSF), which is the National Governing Body for soccer. The USSF falls under the auspices of the United States Olympic Committee and the Federation International de Football Association (FIFA). The mission of the USSF includes the preparation of teams for domestic and international competitions such as the Olympics, World Cup, US Cup, CONCACAF Championships and international exchanges.
Players participating in these international events conducted by the USYSA Regional ODP are an integral part of the USSF player development strategy to help the U.S. men win a World Cup and to maintain the international status of our U.S. women.
SSM players selected to these age group teams, home state and the international encounter they are participating in are as follows.
Boys ’90 – Costa Rica, February 10-17
Julian Cardonna, Lincoln, NE, USYSA Region II
Paul Monsen, Stoughton, WI, USYSA Region II
Ryan Sappington, Barboursville, VA, USYSA Region II
Boys ’92 – Barcelona, Spain, February 22-March 2
Karim Darbaki, Crystal, MN, USYSA Region II
Patrick Donyen, Crystal, MN, USYSA Region II
Brycen Howard, Prestwood, KY, USYSA Region II
Dennis Sanchez, Albuquerque, NM, USYSA Region IV
Boys ’91 – Austria-Germany, March 17-25
Austin Decker, Tiffin, IA, USYSA Region II
Keegan Gunderson, Circle Pines, MN, USYSA Region II
Girls ’90/91 – France, March 22-31
CJ Rhoades, Plainfield, IN, USYSA Region II
Girls ’93 – Costa Rica, April 3-12
Katie Reed, Coatesville, IN, USYSA Region II
So, if these are MYSA rules, why don't they follow them or else move to have them changed at that November meeting.
It doesn't matter who the team is, if you like them or not, etc. Shouldn't they be given the benefit of the doubt based on MYSA's own rules. Someone should sue MYSA! Ha!
MYSA seems to do ok when they get sued. By the way, read:http://www.startribune.com/local/north/15382226.html
anon225 - I support what SSM is trying to do but next time could you provide the link to the web article rather than pasting the entire thing here.
That way if we chose to go and explore we can. If we chose not to, then no big deal. Also you have probably done more PR harm than good after the previous debate about SSM.
RE; SE - The District Operating Committee could have allowed them Premiership status. It was, in my opinion, one of the most non-soccer based decisions ever in the state of MN.
So in keeping to their strict guidelines that the premiership status stays with the club, they allow PSA the option of fielding a premier team. I think PSA made the right decision in opting out of that level of play since (I'm assuming now) that they felt they did not have the talent to compete at that level. By doing so, the alternate team at that age level from EP gets promoted to premiership.
I know they have some talent, are working hard to improve, and have an excellent keeper; however, I would estimate that their level of play would pale in comparison next to the S.E. Thus the level of competition for the other premier teams is watered down and players of high caliber are not allowed to play at the level they deserve.
As someone stated earlier, regardless how you feel about all the other components of the situation, the players are the ones serving the penalty of the adults. The last group of adults that could have corrected the situation was the District Operating Committee of the MYSA.
Hey, at least now they are doing summary meeting minutes in a timely manner until the real minutes can be ratified. Now that's soccer progress
According to the published rules, this was a no-brainer decision...
The DOC lacks intestinal fortitude to make these types of decisions and they have no leadership.
Tomass: Your statement,"RE; SE - The District Operating Committee could have allowed them Premiership status. It was, in my opinion, one of the most non-soccer based decisions ever in the state of MN," is right on. Especially after reading 2:12 state rule 11.311.3 Teams Playing in the US Youth Soccer National League-Midwest Region
a Teams that played in the US Youth Soccer National League-Midwest Region in the previous season and that finished first or second in the previous MYSA State Cup competition will be accepted into a Premier league.
b. A team that played the previous year in the US Youth Soccer National League-Midwest Region that wishes to play in a Premier league must apply to the Vice President of Leagues before the published deadline.
c. The league will be expanded as necessary to accommodate any accepted team.
The SE fulfilled a and b, so there should be no reason that MYSA not follow C. Whoever mentioned club jumping is right--do you see that noted in these rules?
Just like trying to control the Thunder Academy issue this is another clear indication that there are numerous people in decision making roles at MYSA that have no clue about higher level player development. Absurd that SE is not given Premier consideration. MYSA needs to have the fortitude to make exceptions (though it seems none should have been needed here) for the top level players, but instead they choose to do what won't give them the most headaches (fielding phone calls from the majority because of apparent favoritism to the elite).
MYSA DOC members - do I smell profiling?
Teams earned their status on the playing field. When membership makes these rules, they must be applied.
I have also read the rules several times and find nothing to justify why the SE are not in premier league.
We can all see the hatred running through the system and it will continue.
Bob P, Mike S, Tom M, and Candace D should stand up and do what's right. They too are coward of the county!
Come state cup Tom M will be telling everyone they are following "rules" and they want kids to play. All teams must abide by these rules. Why not in this case? The rules were pushed out the door and emotions set in.
Hate them or like them, this team has earned the status and done well and should not be left out because people are afraid to speak up or have biases against an individual. Only in MN!
2:25pm....Stop bragging. Who on this site cares about what we are doing at Shattuck. If coach Carter wanted that posted on a MN blog site, he would of done it.
not sure how much bragging that is when both WDY & BNG have more girls going on these trips than SSM.
anon 225...as a ssm parent, I find your post....embarrassing....
I dont think it matters a whole lot who has more members going with ODP this spring. Big deal. Whats your point?
By going with the rules, SE lost their MN league team status by club jumping. The status remains with the club, not the team. A rule that I personally think is ridiculous...the status should stay with 75% of the players. But they are following the silly membership created rules.
SE were given an exception, and allowed to play in the USYSA National league. MYSA is able to say that USYSA and the State Director of Coaching made the decision. Not the DOC or any MYSA committe which are memberhsip directed.
Generally, I think that MYSA really struggles with decision making. As much as it pains me to say so, I think they made the right decision in both cases.
SE will still be able to play state cup under their new club.
Hopefully, MYSA will continue to keep the membership from making any silly rules about MRL, USYSA NL and the National Championship (state cup) by saying that these leagues and tournaments are governed by USYSA and not MN state membership. MN State membership can continue to make restrictive and ridiculous rules about MN leagues...until all of the top player are out of the MN premier leagues.
Hmmm....
"Club Jumping" must be a new MYSA rule.
Judge says - Mr. Sherrill, please find in your rules "club jumping", which by the way, it is the rationale for not allowing SE to play premier...
Mr. Sherrill says - uh, uh, uh...
Good one 12:13!...If that is their philosphy, then turn it into an actual WRITTEN RULE--
Don't you people have anything better to do?
anon455 - no, we are doing the same thing as you! ;-)
What's better than blogging with a few of your known enemies!!
testing
lol 10:35 - this blog passed away several days ago..
taps playing in the backgroung....
I heard that the DOC ruled that the DOC put the SE at U16C3? This sounds too absurd to be true.
How would this sound?
Brought to you by the DOC, the "Black Hole of Player Development in MN (BHPDM)"
PR Headline:
AFC-SE (U16BC3 - MN) to Compete in the Most Prestigious Youth Soccer Tournament in the US
The Dallas Cup (sorry USA Cup)!!!
Once again the DOC proves they're a bunch of clueless bureacrats who know little about soccer. This move for the Super Eagles just the latest proof of that.
No wonder Ian Barker resigned. He knows more about soccer than the entire DOC combined and they never listened to his recommendations.
Decisions like this one must have made him wonder why he was involved with MYSA. I'm sure it's a breath of fresh air for him to be distancing himself from those bureaucrats.
I will only reinforce what I know first hand about Ian leaving. He left on his own terms and accord.
Nothing more, nothing less. He is too much of a class gentleman to even entertain addressing what you suggest anon 954.
However your content regarding this decision by the DOC is accurate in my opinion. I think there are only 1-2 sitting on that committee that have earned my respect.
My question - didn't the director of the DOC have a son on a team that was allowed special placement at the premier level a couple years ago? Or am I not remembering the circumstances or situation accurately?
SE is a team that had proven themselves. There was a better solution to offer than what was provided for this group of premier players.
I will only reinforce what I know first hand about Ian leaving. He left on his own terms and accord.
Nothing more, nothing less. He is too much of a class gentleman to even entertain addressing what you suggest anon 954.
However your content regarding this decision by the DOC is accurate in my opinion. I think there are only 1-2 sitting on that committee that have earned my respect.
My question - didn't the director of the DOC have a son on a team that was allowed special placement at the premier level a couple years ago? Or am I not remembering the circumstances or situation accurately?
SE is a team that had proven themselves. There was a better solution to offer than what was provided for this group of premier players.
Tomass,
Of course Ian is too much the gentleman to ever say that. But that doesn't mean he wasn't thinking it and that it influenced his decision to resign from the clueless organisation.
You are correct that the VP of Leagues had twin sons on a new SCV team that was given special placement by the DOC into a higher level of league.
Coincidentally that team is now a U-16 Premier team that would have had to compete with the Super Eagles if they were granted entry into this years U16 Premier League.
Quite the coincidence, eh?
From September 06 DOC minutes, which are public...
East Boys
Olson moved, Kruse seconded, to allow a new St. Croix Valley U15 team to be placed at C1
rather than C3. Favor: Carter. Oppose: Casey, Olson, Timm, Kruse, Jarnstrom and Seipp.
Abstain: Sherrill. Not present at the time of the vote: Reginato and Rogers. The motion failed.
Rationale: Facts as presented, including players listed on the petition form prepared by SCV,
suggest that an intact team is club jumping. Such club jumping by an intact team is one of the
behaviors sought to be discouraged by MYSA Rule 4.2.1.2 requiring placement of new teams at
the lowest available competitive level.
Then... At the October DOC meeting the following happens:
East Boys
Seipp moved, Bainbridge seconded, to reconsider a previous DOC meeting motion concerning
the SCVU15 Boys new team request to play at C1. The motion passed. Roll Call - Favor:
Bainbridge, Carter, Casey, Cecchini, Jarnstrom, Kruse and Rogers; Oppose: Olson and Seipp;
Abstain: Sherrill; Not present for the vote: Reginato. Bainbridge moved, Carter seconded, to
grant the SCVU15 Boys new team request to play at C1. The motion failed. Roll Call – Favor:
Bainbridge, Carter, Jarnstrom and Rogers; Oppose: Casey, Cecchini, Kruse, Olson and Seipp;
Abstain: Sherrill; Not present for the vote: Reginato. Rationale: Club jumping or raiding may be
a concern as some of the proposed players played for clubs other than SCV last year.
Casey moved, Carter seconded, to reconsider the original motion. The motion passed. Roll Call
– Favor: Bainbridge, Carter, Casey, Jarnstrom and Rogers; Oppose: Cecchini, Kruse, Olson and
Seipp; Abstain: Sherrill; Not present for the vote: Reginato. Casey moved, Carter seconded, to
grant the SCVU15 Boys new team request to play at C1. The motion passed. Roll Call – Favor:
Bainbridge, Carter, Casey, Jarnstrom and Rogers; Oppose: Cecchini, Kruse, Olson and Seipp;
Abstain: Sherrill; Not present for the vote: Reginato. Rationale: Facts as presented, including
players listed on the petition form prepared by SCV, do not suggest that an intact team was club
jumping. Granting of the petition places the team at C1, the proper competitive division as
decided by the DOC. [!!!!!!!!!]
How appropriate that anon 2:09 PM is also post #666!
Bet the Super Eagles wish they had a parent on the DOC.
well he did abstain from voting (lol) ;-)
I'm sure there was no influence or lobbying done behind the scenes (lol) ;-)
Ok, once again the only ones that suffer and punished are the players. The DOC had the last, best opportunity to do the right thing for the players. Sure glad SCV players didn't have to be punished. ;-)
Also the league has been weakened by the promotion of an EP team that was the alternate choice due to PSA not wanting to keep the premier status.
If level of play is decided by how you perform on the field then how do the accomplishments between the two teams even stack up? It's not even close and yet the SE will not be playing premier.
Just my opinion
From that DOC meeting, "When teams jump clubs, we have to make it hurt."
So a new SCV team is awarded C1 status but the Super Eagles (who are a far superior team to the SCV team with MWL and national experience) must go to C3?
Wow! Like they say, "It isn't what you know it's who you know."
Or who you are related to...
What are the options for a team like SE? I have a hard time believing that they would waste their time playing C3. Someone said they could play up and "self select" and play U18C1. Is that true? In that scenario, what age group would they have to play in State Cup?
Didn't something similar happen to a Bangu Girls team a year or two ago?
What is with MYSA....this club jumping thing seems to be a "belief" of theirs, yet it's not actually written as a rule. They seem to make up or redefine the rules as they go.
- Yes, they could self-select to U18C1 and enter State Cup as a U18 team.
- Yes, a Bangu team did that a couple of years ago.
- I would bet that if they asked for C1 status they would get it (based on the earlier SCV posts).
maybe they won't even play in a MN league, especially if they are already playing MRL, National league, and tournaments. a lot of teams have opted out of the MN premier league over the past few years so it would not be the end of the world for them. you can only play so many games if you truly want to maintain a strong training:game ratio.
I was one of a dozen people there at the last DOC meeting for a different matter when this team's request was discussed.
Annon 7:24 is correct in how a doc person (south) was quoted: "When teams jump clubs, we have to make it hurt." This comment was disturbing to me.
Yes, the DOC did the same thing to a Bangu girls team a year or two ago. Forced them into a C3 league just as they've done to our Super Eagles.
Wonder why that didn't happen to the SCV team that was granted access to the U15C1 league last year?
There was another Bangu team that went up to U18, even though (I think) at the time they were a U16 team.
And there was of course the Bangu team that got put into C3.
The decision to allow the old WBL team move to SCV as a C1 team was wrong, wrong, wrong.
I heard about the "making it hurt" comment too and it shows. The whole MYSA structure needs to be junked.
Amazing that the DOC and VP of Leagues would do such a thing. They must feel as if they're bullet proof and that nobody notices these things that have happened regarding the Super Eagles, the Bangu girls and the SCV team.
How do these people look themselves in the mirror every morning?
anon 845 - Some of them, with their eyes wide closed
Why didn't the DOC "make it hurt" when the team jumping included the VP of League's kids?
Yet they made it hurt when it involved our kids from the SE's.
Great, just what we need, a team ranked 16th nationally, 4th regionally, to play C3. The DOC has the "power" to place teams..
Under MYSA Rules [Rule 4.2.1.2.c "New teams will be placed at the lowest competitive division available. New teams can be placed at a higher competitive division at the discretion of the District Operating Committee." [Rule 4.2.1.2.c]."
But the VP of Leagues had this to say in a communiction to the Arsenal Club: "In an effort to ensure a fair and consistent use of its wide-ranging discretionary powers, including its otherwise unrestricted and unfettered power to place new teams at a higher competitive division, the DOC has adopted and published procedures and standards under which the DOC exercises its discretionary powers. " This was published in JANUARY, 2008, even though the SE petitioned in September 2007. These are procedures, not rules voted on at the AGM.
These folks make/redefine rules as they go.
Seems the rules worked just fine when the VP of Leagues kids' new team petitioned to play in C1 after jumping clubs.
Soccer Times Newspaper article by John Curtis contained a quote stating why MYSA exists - "MYSA is there to support the kids"
I am alarmed to see this type of policizing in the Soccer Times that does not reflect the actual decisions made by MYSA and the DOC. The Arsenal Super Eagles disapproval of allowing this goup of kids to play premier is an example of hypocracy.
I am very disappointed in MYSA and the DOC. I thought both were there to support kids as stated in the Soccer Times....regardless of politics.
The VP of Leagues sounds like a banana republic dictator...
"...wide-ranging discretionary powers, including its otherwise unrestricted and unfettered power to..."
Unfortunately, the DOC is not about player development, therefore, by extension, MYSA is not about player development. A director said: "We don't care how good these players are..." Another one stated, "The players and teams are not our clients, the clubs are."
While the DOC currently has the discretionary power to do the right thing, they consistently refuse to do so, even when it is the right thing to do. The group of people with the intestinal fortitude to champion these causes left the building a long time ago.
This state is sooooo ripe for some competition!
These two statements: "We don't care how good these players are..." and "The players and teams are not our clients, the clubs are..." were indeed uttered and it made my blood boil. These remarks make it sound like a business (more like a racket) than an organziation for kids. So what are the kids, chopped liver?
Meanwhile the banana republic dictator, who is very articulate with his lawyer jargon, sat there like the cat who ate the canary, letting the others do the dirty work. He's slick, I'd probably hire him!
Anon 9:17...
The Soccer Times is a MARKETING piece.
MARKETING <> REALITY
<> means not equal for those of you who are mathematically challenged...
The U16 boys team a few years ago took over an existing U18 Premier slot. The played 2 years up premier in state league and then played state cup at their own age group. If I recall correctly that team also played U17 MRL as the slot they took over had MRL status as well. Any club could choose to swap out an entire team in a premier slot, regardless of the players actual age.
I think it is clear why MYSA denied SEs request. The ridculous rules created by the membership over the past 3-4 years created this environment. Stopping club jumping, while not specifically defined by MYSA, was the spirit of the rule changes. While I disagree in principle with SE being given C3 status, it is a consistent ruling (outside of the SCV team).
The team did "jump" to another club because their coaches ego was bruised by the PSA club. They were lucky that USYSA allowed them to keep their MRL/NL spot. They are eligible for state cup by playing in the NL. They could probably slide back into a MRL spot as the MN membership can't create stupid rules about the MRL. I'm not sure why they would want to beat up on bunch of U16 MN teams. Most of the U18 teams would probably scrimmage them during the summer...as none of them will be headed to regionals.
anon 12:31 = DOC member
HEY DOC
THAT IS B as in B
and S as in S
anon1231- regardless of blaming the coach's ego, the club hoping/shopping, or the MYSA membership. There were two soccer related questions that were not considered seriously "for the good of soccer"
1) Is this a premiership caliber team? YES, without out doubt.
2) Does the premiership league get weakened by placing an alternate club in the place of the Super Eagles? Yes, without question.
Here is the political question now. If there was a precedence set prior regarding the SCV team why couldn't the same reasoning be used for the Super Eagles?. The SE team's request was far more reasonable on all soccer levels than the SCV request was.
I really do not know the answer to this question. I hope the answer is no. This isn't the same SCV team that recently earned a promotion to premier is it? And if so, would have had to play the SE in league play??
HEY BUREAUCRATS of the DOC - someone bring this back up with a seconded motion and do the bloody right thing. Call an emergency meeting and do what is good for soccer in MN.
I'm starting to think it is time to take action for changing the soccer landscape in MN rather than just talk about it.
Let me help you out:
"I really do not know the answer to this question. I hope the answer is no. This isn't the same SCV team that recently earned a promotion to premier is it? And if so, would have had to play the SE in league play??"
Yes and yes...
Yes, this SCV team did go premier and yes, they would have had to play the SE. The SE beat them 4-0 in State Cup last year. Don't get me wrong--I thought SCV had a very good team and I heard they picked up some more good talent. I think they would be very good competition and a challenge. I think as far as ability goes they definitely deserve to play in the MN premier league. But if they were allowed in at C1 as a "new" team, then the SE shoudl be treated the same way.
Also, while it's irritating that the premiership stays with the club, PSA had it and didn't even choose to keep it! That the DOC would give it to EP is truly absurd. Oh, they were following the rules, I forgot! There's also a rule that says the premier league can be expanded as necessary.
So, if the SE played up, say U18 C1, can they play their own age group in State Cup? What is the rule? (Although, I'm sure it will be changed or redefined so it will never go in our favor!) It seems like it would be a stretch to win the U18 State Cup. Even if that happened, competing at that older age group level in REgionals would be extremely difficult.
Where's Ian Barker when you need him?--I can't see him letting this happen if he was still at MYSA. Why doesn' the new guy step in and set these soccer know it all wannabe people straight?
why all the whinging about the team that jumped clubs?Hasnt there been a rule in place for a long time to discourage "rogue" teams?
It would be a real mess if every time a Coach didnt agree with the Coaching Director they just jumped to another Club.Rules are rules,tough.Why did they leave PSA in the first place?
No one doubts they are a great team and as Players they deserve to be in the Premier league but adults involved on both sides didnt get it worked out,its not MYSA's problem,its the teams Coach,Manager and Clubs problem.Stop blaming the league,they didnt cause the issues.
Anon 10:06....
Public comments, regardess of venue, are considered to be the voice of those they represent. Hypocracy rears it's ungly head when comments do not match reality.
All things aside, - the use of "marketing" should never be considered justification to cloud the issue of the importance of providing a positive outcome through our actions. "It's about the Kids"- remember?
anon 2:41
Yes the rule has been in the books for a while. Certainly long enough to cover the SCV move from new team (leaving WBL) to C1.
All people ask is that the rules are applied fairly to everyone, not only to the people that have connections or are connected. That's all!
anon 241 - no they did not cause the problem, but they could have fixed it for the kids and they chose not to and that is where the problem really is
How could they of fixed it for the kids?If the answer is by letting them keep status then the rule is useless.
That rule is in place for some valid reasons,however there are times when it seems unfair.Some sort of hearing should of been had between PSA,Coach/Manager and MYSA and a decision made.
As for PSA not taking the premier spot,that is actually a positive,they had enough sense to not put a c1 team in it just for the sake of being premier,good call I'd say
Regaring SCV/WBL.I believe they took about 8 WBL Players and merged them.It was not a whole team move as was PSA so a slightly different scenario.One whole team,Coach,Manager off to another club versus half a team going to a much better situation
So is 8 the magic number? Another team was denied for having 10 players. I would be OK if they publish that 8 is the right number. By the time it was all said and done, SE had 12 of the original players. So let's pick a number and stick to it!
The way this was done vis-a-vis the way the WBL/SCV was done... something stinks real bad at MYSA.
anon - 907 - I agree. a good call for the PSA team not to take the premier spot they could not have been competitive at. However- giving the alternate a chance still waters down the league when SE is excluded.
As far as rules, why didn't they apply to the SCV/WBL team then too? So do not cite rules when they were overridden once before.
anon 910 - you state the SCV/WBL team went to a better situation. How do you know this was not the same case for SE?
I'm sorry this is almost like debating slavery. There should be no debate - It is wrong. (stolen from the Daly Show)
It needs to be fixed
SE would only consider PR status. SCV was willing to give up PR status and play at C1. Another AFC team at U16 this year they gave up C1 status to play at C2 after leaving another club. AFC knew the Feb meeting was the last chance so they had two options for their 2nd U16 team.
SCV didn't have premier status at the time to "give up"
A year or two ago the Bangu girls team was willing to play at C1 but were placed into C3.
Now these "great soccer minds" put our Super Eagles, a 2 time defending State Cup champion into the C3 league.
Yet the SCV team was allowed to play C1.
They are consistently inconsistent depending on who you know and your connections...ahem.
anon 6:46
Again, you have to go back to the numbers. You claim that the other AFC U16 left another club at C1. How many players constitutes leaving as a team?
You seem to be very informed! Which district do you represent?
anon 9:14
Sounds like NB...
Oh yeah, isn't that the one led by the soccer mom who decided to wash her hands of anything regarding the SE because..." it is in my best interest to remove myself from any further business regarding the Arsenal FC ..."
I would think someone in that position would advocate for the clubs he/she represents....
Hmmmm---I admit I am a little sketchy on the details, but didn't a team coached or led by that person's husband get some special treatment regarding league placement? Someone who can verify this, please chime in, otherwise, I will respectfully take it back..
Again, I guess it's who you know and what postiion you hold...
Let's quit beating around the bush.
The SCV team was given special treatment because there are 2 players on the roster who have the same last name as the VP of Leagues. The Super Eagles don't have a parent in a position to influence the DOC. To think the DOC wasn't lobbied and influenced when they made the decision for SCV team is laughable.
That SCV team is now in the premier league, at the same age as the Super Eagles who were denied the opportunity to play in this league despite being defending State Cup champs and a midwest league power. Getting the drift yet?
It's obvious that the VP of Leagues wants his kids' team to do well this year at U16 so they have a stronger resume when applying for college search events when they're U17s. Not having the Super Eagles in the premier league is a way the SCV team will win more games. I'm certain they believe the SCV team can win the premier league.
If the Super Eagles were in the premier league there is no way the SCV team could put MYSA Premier League Champion on their resume. They need to pad their resume in this fashion because they surely won't be able to use "State Cup" champion as the Super Eagles, Bangu and Blackhawks all are superior sides.
Let's call this what it is. It's soccer mommies and soccer daddies influencing decisions to give their kids better opportunities. Pretty sad isn't it?
Although I am pro SE and agree with 10:45am, I do not put down SCV as a team, no matter how they got there---they're good and they will give everyone a run for their money. If the SE could compete in the premier league, I think there would be a lot of good soccer which would help every playerout there.
10:45 - That pretty much sums it up.
10:58 - Excellent points...
There is always more to a story and I'm sure eventually it will all come out in the wash (or in the blog)...
1. SE coach and manager knew this was the likely outcome. They were not thinking about th kids when they jumped clubs. They could have put their egos aside, stayed at PSA and none of this would have happened. THEY were not thinking about the kids.
2. This coach did the same thing with this team leaving the Kickers several years back. He also did it twice with his older son's team: MPB to TCF and TCF to WNG, then quit with his son after loosing control at WNG. HE was not thinking about the kids.
3. SE are not the same team after loosing some of their best players. They will not win State Cup this year.
4. MYSA made a mistake letting SCV play C1 and the people who allowed it should be kicked out.
5. if you think the ryles for team placement should be different, submit the paperwork with your ideas.
Huge merge was released today in St Louis. St Louis SC, MO Premier, Metro United, Scott Gallager all merged. The new club name is St Louis Soccer United.
Its really too bad MN cant follow suit.
All these clubs in Ctown merging, StL merging etc, but MN is too busy bickering about it. Sad.
MN is light years behind MO. All this bickering is part of the process to get there...
1 - Lots of bickering and fighting
2 - Multiple leagues
3 - Consolidation of clubs
And then "assimilation."
11:15, good points except that if this is going to happen, it is going to take people who have a thick skin and a lot of Rolaids.
anon 1115 -
1) maybe so but then penalize/suspend the coaches but not the players.
2) the truth is somewhere in the middle here to why these events happened. but do not punish the players.
3)Maybe - maybe not, I respect your opinion but it remains to be seen what will occur on the field of play
4) Here we agree. Or at least we need to demand consistency.
5) rules?...paperwork?...once a year meeting?.... voting members of clubs not comprehending extent of rules? Doesn't sound like the best way to move soccer ahead in this state. The DOC was given discretionary powers to make decisions like this to help do the right thing for players. They can correct the wrong you perceive on the coach's part. They won't.
They are punishing the coach by punishing the team.
Ramsey will prevail this summer, They added 2 key pick ups from Centennial . An all-state goalie and a senior forward (#2 for high school) A little guy, anyone heard of him? I predict a solid showing from the State champs and Centennial boys
Tomass
I also respect your opinon.
On #2 above, who punished the players? MYSA? No, the coach and manager. They knew this would happen. how can you ask MYSA to fix it? Would you want them trying to fix every other bone-head decision a coach, club or manager makes?
I am fully aware of the facts on JY's teams over the years and moving. I think your frienship with him is clouding your view. I consider him a soccer community friend. While I respect his ability to assemble talent and motivate players, the pattern of burning club bridges and having the kids suffer is unconcionable. I would be willing to bet that the SE team will not exist after this year.
Ramsey? Centennial boys? Which team is that?
Its the Ramsey River Rats premier team. I watched thier indoor game last night. That Centennial forward destroyed his old team (centennial sting) He had 1 goal and i think 2 assists. Quick on his feet but not overly fast. Has anyone else heard of him? I think his name is Bob or Rob. But the entire team seemed to be gelling. They will be a force to reckon with, this summer.
anon 1235 - thanks for stating a solid opposing opinion regarding #2 - I don't view it as the coaches intentionally punishing the players. The end result, yes this occurred. Are they responsible for the current position the players are facing? Yes
They hold responsibility for what occurred but I do not think their intentions were to hurt the players. I think they viewed this as a very simple common sense soccer position that their team is a premier team regardless of the current rules and it only made sense for the MYSA to permit them to play at the level they earned.
However the MYSA and DOC are the keeper of the rules and the situation was presented to them to address. The language they used and the position they chose did show some intention to punish the players.
I would have proposed, based on the coach's past history, the following: allow the team to play premier, however suspend the coach from coaching this specific team for one year. That way the players are not prevented from playing at the level the deserve.
Then the message is clear - we care about the best for soccer in this state and we will not tolerate coaches trying to circumvent the standards in place. If the coach has the proper priorities in place, he will concede his role on the team. If he fights this type of solution then his real agenda is exposed for what it is.
I think the whole situation was mishandled from the very beginning starting at the PSA club level. The MYSA had the last say and their ruling does punish the players for the actions of adults on all sides.
There was a lack of creative solutions in this situation.
Its the Ramsey River Rats premier team. I watched thier indoor game last night. That Centennial forward destroyed his old team (centennial sting) He had 1 goal and i think 2 assists. Quick on his feet but not overly fast. Has anyone else heard of him? I think his name is Bob or Rob. But the entire team seemed to be gelling. They will be a force to reckon with, this summer.
We need to find the rule JY broke so we can suspend him this year so other coaches have a chance to win state cup.
Quit the jealousy and make some sense.
I agree Tomass this coach should be suspended not for one year but for life. His idea of trying to circumvent MYSA rules and the high MYSA standards is unbelievable. He is insane and if we don’t stop the mad man, kids will suffer. Can MYSA not do something now? Mike please step in immediately and use your broad discretionary powers.
There is no way we can move forward in MN with this man still coaching. He has been criticized for bringing MN soccer down. Now he has been criticized for punishing kids and should be suspended. He has been criticized on this blog for his ego. He has been criticized for being nothing good for soccer, he can't coach, he can't develop players. The SE is ranked nationally in spite of the coach. Do you know all he can do is assemble talent and motivate players. That is not what coaches are supposed to do.
I consider him a soccer community enemy and not a friend. I had lunch with him and I equate him to Castro. He wants to take over MYSA and if we don’t stop him, he will take MYSA over and we won’t have a place for our poor kids to play soccer.
Get a life and go drink your coolaid.
easter is comin - lets hang and suspend a particular coach - tomass -
it is ok for coaches to club jump and not players. did you leave Chaska on good terms and why could you not find a workbale solution - oh I forget you did not club jump and took your kid with you - did you get punished through your moves?
he who is without sin caste the first stone?
MN hypocrites! you'll pay the price someday!
Oh my word! you people pick and choose only what you care to read and interpret.
anon 1115 - you're sarcasm paints a very broad stroke of misinterpretation
anon1146 - evidently you did not get the real details
If it was my team and I was the coach and it meant me stepping aside in order for them to maintain premier status, I would do so whether I felt I did something wrong or not
I am a friend of the coach and repsect him a great deal. I know he did not do this to punish the kids, but he did know the rules regarding the premier status staying with the club rather than the team. I never indicated I thought he was a bad person, but he does hold a portion of responsibility for what has occurred.
MYSA was looking to punish someone and they punished the wrong party. The kids did not deserve this.
As far as throwing stones:
1) I was part of CC United for over 13 years in all the different board positions. I even managed the Rec league one year when no one stepped forward to do so. This when I had no children in Rec. I helped build the club's foundation for possible future success. it was time for the others to continue building the club. Besides the club policy did not allow me to hold a board position if I did not have a child in the club
2) I am still the master age-group team trainer at the boys and girls U11-U12 level at CC United. Last year, when my son went to Tonka, I continued to coach the group of boys CC United that he played with growing up.
3) I am still one of the referee mentors at CC United.
4) There was no C1 level team at CC United and my son wanted to explore the possibilities of playing at a higher level. Thus he tried out at Tonka and accepted their offer
5) My son plays at Tonka, while I'm coaching a team at EP and serving as the age group trainer as mentioned above. The only thing I'm doing at Tonka is serving as a co-team manager for my son's team.
Are you sure you got the complete details on me?
Please tell me how I am a hypocrite?
Also - by reacting the way you did only shows how someone close to the team has their priorities mixed up.
Regardless- the players still deserve to be to be playing at the premier level.
Time for some coffee, the paper, and some church, easter is right around the corner
Im new to this, but let me get this right, Tomass is a coach for a local club, and he is on this blog site giving out his thoughts on the soccer community? If I were a paying parent on his team and or club, I would be rather upset that he is out maybe sharing private info that others put trust in him to keep in a confidential manner. Does he have little man syndrome?
Or does he just like to stir up even more rumors and keep the fires buring?
River Rats - relegated to C2 in 2005. Magically appears at C1 in 2006. Who coaches this team?
anon 12:35pm - I can't imagine you know so much about the situation. and what is this you respect JY ability to assemble talent and motivate crap. are u saying MN has talent and our great clubs can't do it. PSA should have assembled talent and motivtaed players to go play premier. if JY is so bad, then PSA dir of coaching with all their wealth and soccer knowledge can assemble the talent in plymouth and play premier league.
get over your jealousy over the years. I bet JY cut your son or your neigbors and the two of you have not forgeotten that. I bet JY assembled talent beat your untalented group and you have not gotten over that.
same over years, I hope you are doing good with your club and you are proud of your achievements. come out clean with you agenda - you are already declaring the end of the SE team - who are you to think next year JY can't assemble talent and kick your behind or drop your kid?
anon 906 -
- it remains a country to express an opinion
- at least I am open about who I am and what my opinions are. If my parents want me to shut up then they can at least approach me an give me their concerns. If you are one of my parents you have my permission to contact me directly via email or phone call to let me know your feelings
- what information have I ever given out that is private and confidential?
- who I am on the site is who I am in person.
- so this site should only be for parents that are passive aggressive that hide behind the anon moniker?? Doesn't make for much of a blog site does it?
- I do like to stir the pot so a skin doesn't form on top
little man syndrome ? LOL yes I am the perfect weight if I was taller. Thank god for power seats so i don't have to use phone book any more to see over the steering wheel. Being a Napoleon saves on the budget too since I can shop for clothes in the children section.
Now if I could only drive a Hummer or Porsche I could make up for my other deficiency
Jealous? Hardly, my teams state cup and regional records are equal or better than JYs. I have also had teams ranked higher nationally, and helped more players into D1 scholarship as well...actually the players did the work for winning games, gaining national rankings and getting D1 scholarships.
I do believe that if the same group of players merged in with one of the other top teams and was run as part of a club that is developing top teams at all age groups (e.g. WNG, BNG, EDP, etc.) the team would have been even more successful. And the teams and players future would be based on more that a coaches ego.
SE (the PSA version) are nationally ranked based on last years state cup and regional performance. Technically, the AFC SE are not the same team.
Practically, they are also not the same team. How many of their top players did they loose? At least 3 of their top 4 including their 2 superstars who were capable of being difference makers in the team in close games.
They did not have much luck in the National League. The NL did have the #3, #6 and #12 nationally ranked teams, but the other 3 were #9, #13 and #21 in their region. Surely, not a weak teams in this league, but 0-7 and 2 goals for and 19 against are tough results. SE are certainly not in the nationally elite team class anymore.
It will be interesting to see how well they play without the players they lost. Some teams end up being better when they loose their super stars as everyone else picks up their level of play.
I have no stake in this age group. I think SE still have a chance at State Cup...the same chance as any of the other top 4 teams. For the SE player's sake, winning state cup again would be awesome. As a real fan of the youth game, you have to be excited for the players, the kids, regardless of their club, coach or parent group.
Its the Ramsey River Rats premier team. I watched thier indoor game last night. That Centennial forward destroyed his old team (centennial sting) He had 1 goal and i think 2 assists. Quick on his feet but not overly fast. Has anyone else heard of him? I think his name is Bob or Rob. But the entire team seemed to be gelling. They will be a force to reckon with, this summer.
if you have no stake in the age group, stay out of the kitchen and go where you have a stake and know somehting about the age group. ~ your bias is very clear no matter what you say. how much success has wngs or bng had while SE was getting national ranking? where was the DOC at EDP, BNG, while this was hapenning? jealousy is all over the state and it is hard for anyone to accept the success of SE inspite of the hatred that continues to flew around.
after all, the kids are happy and playing soccer and you measure success by what measurements?
if a kid is moving to other program, name what is wrong with this? I love the statement:
I do believe that if the same group of players merged in with one of the other top teams and was run as part of a club that is developing top teams at all age groups (e.g. WNG, BNG, EDP, etc.) the team would have been even more successful. And the teams and players future would be based on more that a coaches ego. BANGU right?
This is a blog. People will express their opinions about other teams, age groups, clubs etc. Chill out.
Nobody disputes that the SE team has had some success. Congratulations for that. But so have many other teams. Also, few dispute that your team has been mis-managed. So have some other teams.
If you can't take the heat, stay of out the kitchen. Your anger, resentment, self pitty and agression makes it clear where you are from...you and your parent group seem to be of the George Bush, can do no evil school.
All you can do is claim that others are jealous. You can't provide any real explination, beside adult egos, that the team has jumped around. Your jealousy claims are ridiculous.
I gave props to your players. I can not to the same for the parents that run your team. If everything is as great as you think, book your plane tickets to regionals now. I do wish the best for your players. Several of them will have a chance to play at a high collegiate level.
Let's see what success have Bangu and Wings had since SE was working toward a national ranking, that really no longer exists? How about 5 or more teams with equal or higher national rankings. How about over 25 state cup championships. How about probably 50+ D1 and D2 scholarship players. How about 6 or 7 Mr. & Mrs. soccer awards. How about growing the number of players capable of playing college soccer?
Yea, your right, Bangu, Wings and other clubs have done nothing for youth soccer, raising the level of overall play in the state, developing players to their potential, giving disadvantaged kids an opportunity to grow as players and people, yep, they've done nothing...
It's amazing how worked up we all get over a few kids kicking a ball back and forth hoping that it goes in some netting. Here is my bias; I support the Thunder, Lightning, ODP, Bangu, Community Clubs and, yes, even SE. I don't agree with any of these groups in totality, but I accept them for the entities which they are and the opportunities they provide for the kids. It's a lot easier to tear someONE down than to build them up. Imagine if we all put this much energy towards spending time with our kids. I'm pretty sure none of them feel that the apocolypse is upon us because one club or another is doing something different. Again, they just want to play a game where they kick a ball back and forth and hope that it goes in the netting once in a while.
In a land of hockey where a 15 year leaves home to seek betterment, never could we entertain that in soccer because the parents needs to be punished for doing what is right for their child. has anyone given thought to the fact that soccer is still nothing compared to hockey in MN? why do we seem so angry at each other. If we had players signing multimillion contracts in MLS, I can see some issues but when going to college is even far for some kids, what's the point?
MN premier league runs from May through end of july less than sixty days and we think it is the end of the world...
are you guys helpless?
has anyone heard of how centennial should be doing this year? I know they lost 2 good players. That small forward and their keeper. The forward led the team in goals and was hurt for half the season. But just transfered over to Ramsey premier and has done quite well there. Has anyone else seen him play? If so what do you think. I only ask this cause im a parent from one of the teams he played this summer
anon 10:25
Mr. Casey
Tomass, wasn't it the Beastie Boys who said "be true to yourself and you will can never fall"? I respect your willingness to put your thoughts and ideas out there along with your name. Someday I might step out of the phonebooth and show everyone who Clark Kent really is, but I don't think that it would really matter. I'm just hoping that we can make things better for the kids, nothing else.
Also, I think that someone is pulling an Obama on me and stealing my words! I seem to remember writing a post similar to anon352's first paragraph a few weeks ago regarding the SSM or Bangu/Thunder merger business. I guess I'm honored that there are now 3 (I'm including Tomass, myself and anon352) people that appreciate the game for what it truly is: a game.
Regarding JY, who is a very capable coach and a man whom I have long had respect for, I am reminded of the words of a coach that I know. "Everybody makes choices and every choice has a consequence. Consequences aren't good or bad, they're just facts." JY understood his action and the ramifications, as did the parents and, hopefully, the players. Where they are now is a product of the choices they made. Again, that's not a good or bad thing, just a fact. Now, how can they make the best of the situation for the kids and how can they/we ensure that a top-level team is placed in an appropriate league in the future?
guys MN Premier league is as good as s...
Playing the league for SE was not critical or important. the team gotten beyond land of 10ooo lakes and they play in NL, the MWL Prem, and other top level competitions. win or lose, where is the wrongness in all of this? I see someone is quick to point their record in the NL. why not point to their record in MN Premier League? My goodness - it is only in MN that we think MYSA is the end all. One minute we say DOC/MYSA is crap and next minute, we want to crown them with jewels for running a crappy league all these years.
Ask Chicago Magic or Vardar if they play in a premier league, ask even IA or NE if they are a premier team - premier league is MYSA's charade of fooling us to believe we are better than someone else. This game from MYSA has to stop. Sell me something else.
SE got national ranking and national recognition not by beating Blackhawks, WBL, Valley or Wings twice a year the last three years.
If you want to aim high, look outside MN for good soccer and think outside the box. SE kids are playing in Europe, SSM, and people are still thinking they could be elsewhere.
I see no damage here but good things for these kids to have played NL, MWL, and will compete in state cup just like everybody else will.
am sure at state cup SE will show up with another championship caliber team like they always do and use their passion and entertain the crowd. that's soccer. As long as kids are kicking the ball, and staying out of trouble, that's a good thing.
you may not like SE approach to the game but who ever likes another competitior's approach when it is working? If we all are the same, do the same stuff, act the same way, imagine how boring the world would be.
people have to move on to other challenges,
I watched them over the years and fun group of boys.
the last I checked Bnagu U16 has not played MN league last year. did their coaches punish the boys by skipping out on the great MN premier league?
they played in the US club and am sure they got better experience there.
anon 1214 I have no problem with the position you have taken, but then convince (what seems like) SE parents from getting all worked up about not being allowed to play in premier.
I wish the SE players continued success and good fortune in all of their life and soccer endeavors.
Dumb question here...
Has Bangu changed colors?
My daughter's team played a friendly against Bangu and they were wearing black jerseys. They actually looked sharp. I wasn't sure if the club was changing from the blue.
Does anyone know?
Anon 12:14 - Can you ever stop patting yourself on the back through your son? Your arrogance is unbelievable!
Last year's team/roster helped you to the NL. SE were not competative in the NL with this years roster. It will be exciting to see how they fair at State Cup. It would be even more exciting if they need to beat the Blackhawks to win their group and advance to the semis.
The Europe player you are referring to was not developed by, nor did he improve with SE. He didn't get along with his coach or team mates and even took himself out of the games he played in.
Your parents are the ones who were bitching on this blog about not being allowed in MYSA's premier league. As others have pointed out, it's beyond me why you would want to play in the league anyway.
I guess you will find out how well your team stacks up against MRL competition soon. For the kids sake I hope your team is competative.
oldschooleliteplayer - who are the Beastie Boys?
;-) Can't they go to jail for something like that in some states? ;-)
The Beastie Boys are the original vanilla-rock-rappers! They are awesome. They turned out smash hits like:
You gotta fight (for your right to party)
Check it out
Brass Monkey
Sabotage
i prefer polka - check out the Atomic Harmonik eh? UFF-DAH - now you can dance to that stuff
I found them when another poster suggested Skuter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvf5qc5J4xo
anon 2:37 did you mean comparative or competitive? i think comparative is the right word..
I meant competative. As in competative with the other teams, or not getting blown out. Versus comparative with last years team. If the team is comparative then they should win the MRL league like they did last year and it won't matter how they perform at State Cup. Fine point though.
A finer point would be that competative is really spelled "competitive"...
anon 2:28
I know of two Bangu teams that have opted for black jerseys. They have three options Blue is still the color of choice.
Who cares what jersey color some team is wearing? I doubt another team was looking at them during a scrimmage and saying how sharp they look. Pretty regular black jerseys. Must be a dad admiring his own daughter.
...or someone just wondering. Wow, some people...
Thanks anon 8:23
nothing wrong with admiring the jerseys people - the NFL make a big deal on wearing their retro, the gophers make a deal with new uniforms - so soccer players have fun and don't let old farts ruin your parade.
as long as the kids are having fun playing games - who cares?
So Bangu changed to Black, wanna-b's like Eclipse
Wouldn't everyone wanna-b like Eclipse? #3 club in the country. Do you think college coaches watch every game they play at tournaments? Don't poo-poo on others desire for excellence, regardless of club.
and Eclipse was the first team to ever wear black jersey's....??
Bangu girls teams have always had the option of blue, white or black jerseys. This is nothing new maybe just a few more of the teams opting for the black option on occasion.
I'd say SE and JY are doing great things given all the talk on this blog. I'd rather be talked about than not talked about at all.
I don't recall the Bangu U14 Girls getting a lot of talk/attention even though they had the best season of any MN team last year by winning regionals.
If by talk you mean SE parents expressing themselves, looking for other to support them and help them feel good about their decisions, then I agree.
From a play and on field achievement perspective, the players will take care of that.
Good luck to all the SE players!
Anon 3/3/08 2:37 PM - Yeah, you... The person who cannot spell competitive...
Arsenal FC - SE (MN - U16BC3) #13 in the nation (+3) and #2 in Region II (+2). Not bad, huh?
Unwarranted importance = arrogance. Warranted importance = excellence!!
new development in ranking teams is emerging from got soccer.com more detail and imformation about teams and truer gauge of current strength of teams based on more than just last years state cup result, predict this will be used more in deciding what teams get into showcase tournaments. really like that they take into account overall games and level of competition teams play over course of year. with players, teams, and coaches having more use and registration with site hope lazy nation soccer rankings gets dumped with its bias towards certain clubs stocked with experts from those clubs.
yawn.....
The rankings are a complete waste and do little more than get a bunch of middle-aged men fired up about their dd.
Some of the girls that are heading to UNC next year are from teams that were not ranked in the top 20.
So again, what are rankings for anyway? They mean nothing.
anon 8:43
Opinion brought to you by an unranked team...
LOL
The ranking systems work against teams with players on high school teams that play in the fall.
Those teams may do extremely well in State Cup/Region etc and summer leagues but then don't play in fall and have weaker teams who play fall tournaments leapfrog over them in rankings.
Just another reason the ranking systems are only a guideline and not an accurate measure of team strength.
1039 you have to be kidding. Got soccer still awards points to teams for winning low level tournaments. They reward frequency as well as quality. They are even worse now as they award extra points to tournaments that use their scheduling software. Their rankings are next to useless as they have always been.
In addition to that tournament results that do not use them for scheduling are included either weeks to months later and often not at all. It is a very self serving ranking system.
What are the rankings used for anyway?? Does Coach Waldrum from Notre Dame give a rats ass if Eclipse or the Texans are ranked #1 and for how long?? Does San Diego State care if the Surf 17 girls are only ranked in the 2nd tier of the top 25? Of course not. But ole Suzy's dad up in Stoke My Pipe township sure cares if his daughters team is ranked in the top 15.
I see all these postings from who is playing who at what tournament, great to see, but why put if a team is ranked #17 national and #3 in the region. Why put that down. Does it mean your team must get up even more cuz your playing a ranked team from somewhere else, who's 2 best players are at National camp?? Big deal. I thought the team should be taught to go play EVERY game like its your last game. Does this explain if your team doesnt win its because the team to beat you is ranked ahead of you, but then you get a draw against a team that isnt ranked?? DOES IT REALLY MATTER?
Rankings do matter as they are probably the most important factor in determining who is accepted into showcase tournaments and once there what flight they are placed in.
Rankings do matter as they are probably the most important factor in determining who is accepted into showcase tournaments and once there what flight they are placed in.
What's up with all the Coach Waldrum references on this blog the last week?
rankings do matter - period. If you are ranked, it means someone somewhere in a ranking system believes in your achievements and awards you the recognition. I find it very selfish for anyone to say rankings do not matter to coach Waldrum. Coach Waldrum is soccer experts who spend lots of time scouting teams and make a recommendation. I bet if Notre Dame is ranked in the top 3, he sell more tickets and Coach Waldrum keeps his job. It is unfair to think any team will get a node by not doing something well. Rankings also takes a look at several factors besides w/l records.
I am also yawning because as a parent, I would want my kids to be ranked in school. I want my kids to be ranked in everything they do. Without rankings, Wall Street stocks sell for less. FIFA conducts rankings, the AP conducts rankings, colleges conducts rankings. I bet the President of U of M will say Harvard's nbr 1 ranking in top colleges means nothing - let's get off it and quit complaining..hmmm..
I think the anons are on to something....let's drop all rankings because it may hurt the self-esteem of the players. Hell, let's stop keeping score. Scores don't matter either....do you think any of the D1 coaches care if the team you play on is successful (by listing number of wins)?
Grow up, people. Rankings are guidelines-- nothing more, nothing less. GotSoccer rankings are absolute crap for all the reasons listed above. I could rattle off multiple examples across Region 2 of how the methods used by GotSoccer aren't producing remotely accurate rankins.
National Soccer Ranking is better, because there are "who beats who" considerations given. But, as with anything people are involved so there may be some circumstances where bias assists someone in setting the rankings. But, I can tell you that I am one of State "experts" and for me to make a change requires explanation with FACTS....NOT FEELINGS. I couldn't "cheat" for a particular club/team unless I have some results/facts to prove it.
OK - If ssm-south-campus is a "state expert", then I have lost my faith in NSR...
one more Coach Waldrum reference...........Maybe we should change this thread to we love ND.
as do the swallows of Capistrano return ever year, so does the debate for the true meaning of what rankings really mean.
Have at it boys - good luck.
the point of my original statement and if you did bother to go to... got soccer .com, is that there is now more information available to everyone , players, coaches, parents not just self proclaimed state experts and less bias in their ranking system than national soccer rankings who just uses last years state cup and regions results for basis of their rankings. the argument that team rankings arent important is true if you never wish to play at or against higher level competition outside your own state competition. tournament officials are going to have to use some source as guide line to decide who gets to play in showcase tournaments and which flights to place teams and that this system i feel will be reference point more and more. i feel teams that want to be challenged and play more at tournaments should be rewarded for quality as well as quantity of games. the helpful feedback to players is how well your team stacks up against other out of state teams and the level of play you challenge your self and teammates to play at. this is most important in players development , who they are allowed to play and practice with and against and then combining and challenge those skills against teams that may be further along in their development. college coaches dont care about rankings as much as they do like to see players and teams challenge themselves to as high as level of play as possible and usually focus their time watching and looking for teams and players improvement in those situations.
anon 3:24-- Rest assured that my area of knowledge/input does not include the State of MN.
NSR does take into acccount results at major tournaments. The got soccer rankings are better than they were a few years back but still a very poor methodology. And yes, I have been to their website.
ssm-south-campus
Very obvious from reading your posts...
Rankings are for entry into a tournament?? That is funny, Disney USE to do it this way, now that they know that they can make more $ when more teams come.
Rankings mean nothing.
But rankings at U11, 12, 13, 14, COME ONE!!?? Lets look at the MI Gators for example, at U12 they are ranked #1 in MI, but we all know, by the time most of these girls are U16 they will all be with the Hawks. That, or a few of the girls are no longer playing select soccer. It happens everywhere, Socker girls going to Eclipse, SoCal Blues girls going to Surf, Woodbury going to Bangu, Sting going to Texans etc etc etc..IMG and SSM doesnt even play State Cup at the younger ages, whats the point? To be able to say your the best team at U11, 12 in the country, but by the time your U18 your not even on the radar??
rankings don't mean anything if you are never ranked. I would like to say rankings mean something. We rank teams and call them Premier. we rank teams and drop them from C2 to C3. Whether we call it rankings or not, it is a measure of accomplishments and let's give credit to the highly ranked teams - OK. I know we want to discredit their achievements but guess what trophies are given to winners and not losers.
rankings alos serve as club publicity for a measure of achievements - to just say the parents on MA team that won regional last year is not wanting rankings is a joke. Let's just ranked them at the bottom of the regions and see the outcry...
rank all you want...if that is your hobby.
what happens on the field is what is most important and the rankings do not influence that one bit.
But hey, if it makes you feel better, use whatever rankings support your cause and water cooler fodder.
For those of you who follow scholarships, check this out from today's NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/sports/10scholarships.html
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