BJ vs University of E.P Thursday nite at THANKFULLY for players on E.P. turf field. Good luck to teams,players and coaches. And please after the game no whining parents on what might have been, both teams have talented players that will decide outcome.
Can anyone tell me why Blake goes out of their way NOT to play anyone who might beat them? I am surprised they still have AHA and Orono on their schedule. Both those schools play top competition in both class A and AA, yet Blake somehow didn't play in the Challenge Cup this year, giving their spot to Mahtomedi.
2:18 - What the heck are you talking about? First, Blake got screwed out of the Challenge Cup. The guy that organizes it didn't even ask them to play, so get your facts right. And , to tell you the truth, the Blake coaches weren't too happy about this. There is no way they would have passed on playing in the Cup. Secondly, I would love for you to list all the tough AA schools that Orono and AHA play. Get your facts down before you type a bunch of crap.
me thinks it's all about sectional seeding and their home field which does suit their style of play (although by the middle of october their home pitch could hardly be called a "field"). they win sections and then roll into state with a very gaudy record and secure one of the top seeds......
Interesting discussion...I checked out schedules....Mahtomedi plays the most AA schools... Central, Sibley, Woodbury, Hill-Murray, Edina and a bunch of them in their conference... surprisingly in the rest of the top 10...the little school of SPA plays more AA schools... (Cretin, Stillwater, Northfield)..
AHA - Bloomington Jefferson, the Missota conference teams twice (not super strong with Northfield and Prior Lake being decent by Class AA standards), plus a non-conference schedule of Blake, SPA, Minnehaha, Orono, and BSM.
show me a varsity coach who doesn't whine...in any sport. it's part of the job.
just about every natural surface that is shared with football is trashed by the time sections begin. like the state tournament, sections should be required to be played on turf if at all possible.
i saw e/p v armstrong at e/p a couple weeks ago. they aren't the e/p of the last couple years.
the '2nd round' of the clc is about to begin. it will be interesting to see who's improved and who's lost focus.
2:58 - Obviously you aren't a Blake backer, but are jealous of their recent accomplishments. They will earn everything they accomplish this year, as they have in the past. The girls at Blake consistently perform at levels that exceed expectations. Sure, they only play a few AA schools (St. Cloud Tech, South, Hopkins), but they do scrimmage the likes of Moundsview, BJ, and St. Louis Park. What they have been doing seems to work.
scrimmage? who cares about thatst cloud tech are u serious? South is middle of teh oack in any major conference and hopkins is not much better. blake plays no one, how do you know that the cup passed them over?
WOW, just got updated on the current exchanges after getting behind a few days. Definitely not much Blake love on this blog. 8:19, you're right, Blake plays no one (AHA, Orono, Minnehaha, SPA, Vis, Breck, Hopkins..). And yes, I will confirm, although I have no direct connections to Blake, they were not invited to play in the cup for some reason. Feed the fire baby!
I've watched Edina all year and their toughest opponent to date was Minnetonka. This team graduated 75% of last years points. If their younger players figure out how to score, with that very good defense, Minnetonka could be tough down the stretch.
Mahtomedhi should play the most AA schools; they are one of the biggest A schools (they have 3 times the enrollment of SPA and twice that of Blake) plus they have a feeder program that most A schools do not have.
the concentrated talent (5 teams) in the clc could play havoc with the overall standings after these teams get revenge on each other.
mtka's tragic loss last season pulled the rug out from under their team which, i think, was undefeated at the time? they look focused when they played edina.
hopkins is usually physical and therefore always dangerous.
wayzata doesn't seem to have filled the void created by open enrollment restrictions.
armstrong has the stud (and the surrounding cast) to repeat...but will the coach let them?
i'm sure every coach (none more than sw) wishes for that 'dream team'...22 players...all orphans!
AHA had a more dangerous attack but overall the game seemed rather even with SPA having two golden chances late in the game that they could not finish. AHA's goal was pretty soft...a corner that the SPA goalie caught and then somehow lost her footing and fell back into the goal with the ball. I was impressed with SPA's ability to play better as the game progressed (I am an AHA parent). In my opinion, SPA is about the same as Blake and much better than Minnehaha. I talked to an SPA parent and they said their team is finally getting healthy. I do think AHA is the team to beat in Section 3A (no surprise as I am a parent) but Blake, SPA etc. will be hard to get through to go to State.
6:24 - Thanks for a great recap. And yes, section 3A will once again be a dogfight to get into state. Don't forget that Vis, Washburn, and Minnehaha are in the section as well. This makes even a quarterfinal game a decent match for some good middle seeds.
CLASH of the Minnetonka vs. BJ blogger parents righteeee here on this stage, Saturday Sept 20 all bets are off who can shift the bet makers odds and the publics minds before the game .... stay tuned for more lobotomized loony tunes.
A) Thats pretty messed up that Blake wasn't invited to the challenge cup, and it makes NO sense
B) Blakes schedule is pure cupcake, there is no way around that, that being said they seem to have survived the few challenges with draws this year. I watched two of those games, they definitely weren't the better team in either, but they sure didn't lose either
C) its not all about which class you play, A vs AA, but QUALITY. I can say AHA seems to step up, Lakeville South last year, Jefferson this year, plus BSM and Orono - and those weren't scrimmages.
I sense an undertone here at AHA players/fans may be getting ticked off because they sense anotehr Blake top seed despite their soft schedule - personally, I think no matter what happens AHA should be the top seed in 3A and here's why... take the "big 4" Blake, Minnehaha, AHA, SPA - AHA is now garunteed to have the best record, 2-0-1 against those teams this year, the best Blake can do is 2-0-2. That, and strength of schedule, in my opinion puts AHA past Blake.
Maybe AHA should focus on winning their remaining games first? I don't think they can afford to dump another game against Prior Lake. Recall Blake just tied Orono. AHA will have to play well to do the same. Don't be so quick to assign seeds, there is still some soccer to be played this season. Best luck to all.
Sounds like AHA was fortunate to get a W against SPA yesterday. Although Blake tied SPA, who controlled play? Wins, losses, and ties don't always tell the whole story.
AHA was not "fortunate" to get a win against SPA - SPA had a total of three shots, AHA had multiple chances and also a second goal called back on a questionable at best offside.
Also, if you want to play that game then lets talk about the shot count, corner count from the AHA v Blake game earlier this year.
Actually I think the only game that matters still on AHA's schedule with regards to sectional seeding will be the Orono game, only because its a common opponent to Blake. As far as I am concerned AHA can drop another game to Prior Lake, lose to Northfield, whoever - at least they actually play AA schools.
I have to say agree with the case against Blake, they play one of the softest schedules in the entire state. They can't change their conference, but that schedule is gonna give them cavities eventually with all those cupcakes.
I guess when it comes to sectional play, the score is all that will make a difference! In section 3A I don't think it will matter who gets the #1, #2, or #3 or #4 seed for that matter. In the end all that will count is what scoreboard reads at the end of the match.
Please, if AHA drops multiple games against Prior Lake, loses to Northfield, who several single A teams have beat, they don't deserve the #1 seed. It is a different story if they lose to GOOD AA teams. Quality over quantity people.
don't let DM catch you blogging about AHA on here, if I recall last year he placed a program wide ban on parents and players from these sites because he didn't want them "participating in the idiocy." I'm sure he'd be thrilled to know the cauldron of stupidity is once again broiling his program. (not to suggest your post was anything but genuine!!!)
That field was unplayable last year - need proof? Too of the best teams in the state were on it for 80 minutes, and there was no soccer. Need more proof? It was the ONLY game not moved to turf that night. I understand Blake's desire to keep AHA off turf and out of their comfort zone, but that was ridiculous last year. An absolute mess.
Fortunately, after beating AHA for the 2nd time, Blake proved they belonged in the state tournament last year. It is really too bad that section 3A is so stacked again this year, but I guess it has always been that way. Three or four teams in that section are easily in the top 8 of state. I wouldn't be surprised if the winner of that section advances to the final against Mahtomedi, that is if the pairings work out right. Although, Mahtomedi will have to work a bit more this year to get past Simley.
The reason AA teams games are low scoring especially in the Classic Lake and Lake Conferences are that the teams are well balanced and the talent spread pretty much even.If you pay attention and watch the pros it's the same situation. Another factor is that MN doesen't do a very good job developing players with ON THE BALL SKILLS.
Soccer games shouldnt be determined like rugby games, on which team displays the most brawn. Agree that games should be played at site where the integrity and honor of the game and the skills that make the game what it is today can be displayed.
I would have guessed the Vis vs. SPA contest would have been a close one. Vis is a quality team, but things hadn't been going there way so far this year, at least until today! Blake topped Vis 3-1, but tied SPA 1-1. And with AHA beating SPA 1-0 yesterday, this makes section 3A even more interesting.
8:53, despite what the scores are, I think both Vis and SPA are superior teams to Minnehaha, who took a step back today by tying a DeLaSalle squad that has been surprising some teams.
edina 2-1 over hopkins. hopkins went up in the 1st half on an edina keeper 'oops'. edina came back w/2 in the 2nd. the 2nd looked like an 'own goal' from my vantage point but they announced an edina kid got a head on it.
I don't think that you can blame it on the refs. If that was the case, each game the looser could use that for their excuse. It was good defense from AV.
Let's talk big. Woodbury's soon to be completed East Ridge High School/Bielenberg/Danner Complex. 14 full sized soccer fields, 5 practice fields, 8 tennis courts, 8 baseball fields, 10 softball fields, one stadium and a giant windmill to boot.
LS has no one to blame but themselves, yes they had a goal taken away in bizarre fasion, but they also missed four easy ones when they were insde of eight yards. to open the second half, they played a ball on a silver platter to their center mid at the eight, she had time for a sandwich and shot it right at the keeper. LS had at least 5 good chances to score and comes up empty, AV has one and finishes. the refs were terrible and cost LS a goal, but they must finish better
Dear LS got the game taken away againnnnn ,,,,well, those who can not benefit from the past condemned to repeat it. Read 5/9/08 5;08 PS. Your team scored 85 goals last year not 95 you have listed in Minnesota State High School Records for 2007.
anon 1035- what are you talking about, is there some sort of conspiracy as to how many goals LS scored last year. who is to blame for this? what an outrage! are you kidding me bringing that up- who cares. what team do you cheer for- maybe edina the team that LS smoked in the final last year. And how much time do you have to know how many goals they scored? Your post may be the funniest I have ever read
They (other than WDB) are starting to beat up on each other. This is starting to be fun to watch who survives the next couple of weeks. Who will this year's sleeper be? Good defense trumps good scoring. Question, who has a good defense and can also score? I don't profess to know, other than WDB, who would that be?
1122 i agree to a point. in 2005 edina got to the tournament with defense. they didn't allow a goal, in regulation, the entire tournament and still came in 3rd w/mtka. you have to put at least 1 ball into the back of the net or the entire season is determined by the proverbial coin flip.
good luck to all the teams and coaches AND refs...you'll need it. parents...don't show up on YOUTUBE because of your obnoxious behavior.
8 of the top 9 teams in the most recent poll, but unfortunately only 3 get to go to state. No sense in crying over it, but a bit of an injustice to all the players, coaches and fans.
For the math challenged LS fan open up 2007 state tournament book and then add 5 for state tournament goals plus 80 regular season. Also believe the losses your leader quotes in his coaching career are perhaps in 30s not 20s.
Furthermore, Dear, Dear LS fan in 2007 championship game although vastly out shot by very talented LS team with shots on goal can hardly refer to 2-1 loss as being smoked. Id say a 5-0 loss might qualify as being smoked and weaknesses exposed.
WB outplayed MV - they were the aggressor especially in the second. MV has a tough stretch of games (Stillwater, Woodbury, WB again and Park) over the next 8 days. How they respond to last night will determine whether they are a contender or pretender.
That Vis vs SPA score is a bit of a shocker. I watched the AHA v SPA game and while AHA clearly could have won by more than 1-0, it definitely was a closely contested game... then comes Vis who just blows them out of the water???? Was SPA just exhausted from their match with AHA less than 24 hours earlier? Did they just fold after giving up some early goals? Was anyone at that game?
I don't think one score should "alter the 3A" landscape dramatically at the top, but I think it sure does land Vis in the top 4 ahead of SPA, just no way you can seed someone ahead of a team that smacks them 5-0.
12:20, scores have been funky this year at times. SPA gets pounded by Vis, SPA tied Blake, and Blake tied AHA, and AHA beat SPA 1-0, but Blake beat Vis 3-1.
it is so funny to see the uproar over Ls and their stats from 2007 and some coaching losses by their "leader" Not a LS parent but from the Lake and have kids who play with LS kids. Who cares about these stats and who knows what is right or wrong and why do you all have time to check this out? why not talk soccer. it is far more intersting to talk about why LS can't score or BJ seems to be having troubles or even if EP is for real and can beat WB. You statiticians are priceless!
with hs soccer you never know as one or two players being hurt or not at 100% can really alter the outcome since success at the high school level can be really "top-loaded". most teams depend on a few key players (unlike the higher club levels where there is much more depth on most teams). i also think that all the teams mentioned by 12:42 are "good" but not "great" teams so if one steps it up a bit or one has an off day the outcome can be all over the board.
Agree 12:47 as long as they dont file misinformation in Minnesota State High School Records MSHSSCA recognition section, that should reflect achievement as well as honesty.
Did we all step into a time warp???? How (and why) has this thread turned into a LS '07 flashback? The only thing missing is Bruce Springsteen singing "Glory Days"..........
I think it is because someone was questioning their goal total for last year. Not sure why anyone cares. This year looks wide open to me. Some good teams but none that jump out as being a great team. I am predicting a reprise of the 2006 final with EP defeating Woodbury.
Agree just put a piece of tape over LS fan that after every loss blames bad officiating for losses including RC, EV, and now AV. Those teams were better than LS. LS fan and his sidekicks short change the efforts of those teams beating a team with three bangu division one prospects and another bangu ODP regional camp player.
Could it be the three Bangu D-1 verbals and one Bangu ODP regional camp player got dragged along to the "show" by KB and KL? Could it be that those three U's will be proven wrong in a couple of years? Maybe?
Was really surprised to see SPA-Vis score. Was not at game but would wonder how was officiated: SPA plays a very physical game, going over and through players to ball. A referee who calls them on that would definitely impact the game. Also Vis' strength is their center mid; don't recall SPA having anyone who would match up well with her. Have seen AHA, Vis and SPA this year; AHA has so much offensive firepower, will be the favorite in Section 3A, especially if game is played on the rug.
Was really surprised to see SPA-Vis score. Was not at game but would wonder how was officiated: SPA plays a very physical game, going over and through players to ball. A referee who calls them on that would definitely impact the game. Also Vis' strength is their center mid; don't recall SPA having anyone who would match up well with her. Have seen AHA, Vis and SPA this year; AHA has so much offensive firepower, will be the favorite in Section 3A, especially if game is played on the rug.
True a 2.6 goals average per game hardly worthy of being described as superior offensive firepower. Better State tournament teams last year Blake 4.5, Mahto 4.1, Toto G 3.8, and BSM 3.3. Afraid A.H.A coach right, this same gibberish spewed out last year, and borders on his fine choice of words ... idiocy. Presiding self proclaimed Official/parent should just sputter to himself and live with outcome which could be same as last year. If credit is due AHA unsung defense that has only allowed 2 goals all season will be reason they might win section.
you make a lot of good points 4:47, but personally i don't much stock in goals per game as it all depends on who you are playing and how you play them. 7-0, 8-0, etc... games against the "have-nots" doesn't tell us much about the team (other than the second string is greedy for goals).
Point well spoken ...but if better AA teams that beat AHA also factored into AHA average of which they didnt score single goal. Then total team average drops to 2.1. Point is with that poor goal/game average and the results of better teams at Class A State Tournament with much higher averages shows that perhaps AHA is not State tournament contender again this year unfortunately and shouldnt be overly promoting unrealistic likehood, to further disappoint fans and players.
Hopefully not, but ironically one of the most highly touted and heralded prep forwards might never get to display her considerable skills on the Metrodome field for state tournament team with the graduation of one of AHA better mids in Class A this year and leaving big void in program.
I'm loving all these posts that write off Blake. I'm guessing this just adds fuel to their fire to repeat again this year. They too had the better side of play against SPA despite the 1-1 tie. They also beat Vis 3-1, who just drilled SPA. Lets not get caught up in a numbers game. Fact is, AHA studs better start finding the net. I wouldn't call any player "highly touted" or "heralded" that scored three goals all year up until last night. When it comes down to it, who is going to get the job done? I think SPA, AHA, Vis, or Blake all have a shot at taking home the 3A crown.
9:07 - I agree that all four teams have a great shot at taking home the sectional title and it should be a fun and exciting playoff. My daughter plays club ball with the player in question and in all fairness she has missed a huge chunk of the season with an injury (did not even play in three games and spot duty in a few others).
9:31 - I agree with 10:29. And, thing is, you have to get to state to have a shot at winning it. I think your "wannabe" call was not so well thought out.
Saw the Vis SPA game - high speed affair in 1st half - Vis got two early,and their keeper made several nice plays to keep SPA down. 3rd goal by Vis about 15 minutes in to 2nd half took the wind out of SPA.
Vis got 5 goals from 5 players - skilled center mid as mentioned, but excellent outside mid, nice defender, nice GK, good overall team speed.
Must have been their best game looking at earlier results
Agree with wise AHA coach that star forward should be held out and not be wasted on regular high school season games and hopefully gets to play in section playoff games. She'll then be ready once more important club season starts or national team calls.
Am sure coach of AHA forward also feels she should also get named to All State Team and ESP game based on what she did in National ODP program. Not important whether she plays in high school or how well she or her team does. Like selection process worked last year. Minnesota should get represented by player ODP coaches like DM from other states choose to pick as our best player. Same with other regional ODP players. The other states ODP coaches know more about how good a player is than the local high school coaches here in Minnesota. The out state ODP officials should get a local big club representative to voice and further their picks. This system works well to make sure everyone is on the same page.
9:07 - know the facts before you run your mouth - that player you referenced who only had three goals up until Tuesday had also only played about 20% of the time, she came back from the Nike Friendlies with the U15 National Team (yeah, your right, not highly touted at all) with an injury and has only made a few starts. Tuesday night was the first game she has played close to 80 minutes... 4 goals.
7:42 - not to mention, anyone who has watched AHA knows that their coach simply can't pull the trigger fast enough to get his starters off and his reserves in against the "lesser" teams - unlike some coaches who run up statistics (cough cough, Eagan) against weak teams and then parade their big time scorer around - even though usually 2/3 of their goals come against bad teams.
This forward in question from AHA has barely played this year, she's coming back off an injury, and besides, she's a 15 year old girl and YES the kids do read these things.... be an adult and shut your mouth.
Mahtomedi still looks to be so far the top Class A team. They have lots of skill, experience, depth, and the one key element that is needed come tournament time - a playmaker who can put the ball in the net (who might also be a top Ms. Soccer candidate).
So far Orono has also been outstanding and we will know just how good they are as they face BSM and AHA over the next few weeks (and then most likely BSM or Breck for the section title).
Also not sure why more people aren't talking about a Simley team that has a nice mix of talent and beats everyone except Mahtomedi. Those two play one more time and then will most likely will meet again for their section crown.
My biggest question about Blake is will they actually come out and play against AHA if they meet again? Blake, wisely, sat in during the first matchup. Their play maker and best attacking mid played in the back all night and mostly just followed around AHA's top gun. I AM NOT RIPPING THEM, it was a great strategy and they even nearly stole the win after a couple of good counters against an AHA team that was frustrated and tired after a whole night of not being able to unlock the Blake defense. However, I wonder what that game looks like if Blake just "goes for it"?
I don't personally see much of Simley or Mahtomedi - I am kind of waiting to see BSM, Orono, and AHA lock horns over the next few weeks. My advice the AHA people out there, cool your jets, sadly people just love to hate you, that may be lingering remains of the MC era, I dunno.
Personally, I think there IS NO dominant presence in class A, the scores are all over the place.
9:10 - the only one that seems to have separated themselves a bit is Mahtomedi by beating Edina in a shootout in the rain and then beating Simley 2-1 at Simley.
It is great to see the girls blog finally start to match the action of that of the boys blog. It is also nice to see the smaller schools getting some attention. Although some posters should spend more time considering whether or not their message is appropriate and accurate before they publish it, I'm thrilled to see the interest, debate, and energy folks have about girls soccer in MN. Good luck to all!
Just like most years, the metro section winners will account for at least 7 if not all 8 of the teams from the two classes that make it to the dome (especially in Class AA where there are not that many larger out state schools).
A possible outstate rep at the dome could be Rogers. They have arguably the top sophomore in class A and some other solid players. Depth will be a problem for them however.
Not sure I would call Rogers out state as they are in the same section as Fridley and Totino Grace. They are a very talented team which has gotten better every year (and will continue to) as that community continues to grow (this might also take care of the depth issues down the line).
Jefferson needs to regroup and play hard nosed soccer against EP. Should be a good match up if they can get their confidence up. Look for EP to be shooting high against small GK.
... and play hard nosed soccer....Are the smack down sisters still playing for Blom. Jeff. who proclaimed last year they would make it to Dome. All those prim and proper frosh and sophs of U.E.P. Ladies please beware of these flying kahbongers. You will be welcomed to a unique brand of soccer you may not have experienced yet.
LS math slightly skewed again. 1-1 with LN . So where the city cup end up , think it should end up at North they seemed to be more honest and deserving.
LS real deal ??? Please 5 of those goals were weak goals any goalie should have stopped . LN coach had horrible subbing patterns -subbing before players get any rhythm and best players spending considerable time on bench
The score of LS, LN was 6-0 and it could have been worse. I do not know if a "good keeper" would have saved 5 of those I saw maybe two bad plays. If there is a "good keeper" where was she? bad goal keeping or not, the LS starters played half the game and the LS subs still out worked LN
7:58am What game were you watching? Some of the goals that we're scored, the keeper had no chance on. Your getting confused with a poor effort defensivly. Subbing patterns was not the issue. LVS outworked LVN from the whistle. I'd like to know best players that we're on the bench. Reference by numbers please. Real deal or not, they stuck it to LVN.
wow, a crippled Northfield team beat Prior Lake for the second time. I know the haters will chime in but I have to say the Missota Conference is improving and will only get more competitive... Northfield when healthy is a legit "upper middle class" AA, as is Prior Lake (note I did not say elite, don't spaz), while Farmington is getting much better (#15 and #18 would play just about anywhere, big school or small). Then there's that private school from Richfield I won't mention by name to keep the hate spewing trash talkers from riding in.
LS definitely dominated most of the game. Beginning of second half, LN had the LS defense working hard, but LS came back quickly. Good job by both coaches in letting seniors get play time. This makes the cross town "cup" a fun game for all to watch. Looking forward to next year's "cup" battle.
The reason Missota is getting better is the schools are getting bigger. Take Shakopee, they are MUCH IMPROVED... still not what I would call "good" but dramatically better. More students equals more athletes to choose from. That is a district growing exponentially as people find it just too friggin' expensive to live in the city. I've kept an eye on Missota this year, Northfield is just to banged up to be consistent and Prior Lake seems to be treading water, but these schools will continue to get better. Its one advantage I give AHA in the great 3A seeding debate, they play in a predominantly AA conference that, if you're being honest and not just an AHA bashing knucklehead, is a HECK of a lot harder to win than the tri-metro, a collection of tiny private schools.
anon 11:22 from where does your hatred of LS derive? Bad math, honesty? what is your axe to grind with them did your kid get cut or are you jealous of recent success? Did not see game, but 6-0 is a beating no matter who is playing goalie.
Star trib is wrong, sure that caused quite a stir with some of those AHA haters. MSHSL site confirms 4-0 in favor of AHA, not to mention... I was there. 4-0 AHA.
So tired of bad officiating. It's really been bad this year. Even when my chosen team has won, it feels stinky when the ref basically ruined the game. I'd rather lose a game and have a well reffed game.
Farmington 1436 Shakopee 1435 Prior Lake 1884 Northfield 1223 Red Wing 869 Holy Angels 862
Except for smaller Red Wing (and AHA is a bit of an anomoly as a private school) the balance of the schools are starting to really get up there in enrollment. 10:16 is correct that the larger the pool the better the depth of talent. Many of the players were also involved in solid youth programs in Lakeville, Valley, as well as the rapidly improving CCH and Prior Lake. The Missota also plays home and away so everyone gets to see each other twice which makes the second games real battles due to the adjustments that are put in place. I agree that the Missota is currently a stronger conference than the Tri-Metro and the gap will continue to grow.
For the most part, the Tri-Metro schools are about half the size, some considerably less, than AHA. Considering this, teams such as SPA, Vis, Blake, Minnehaha, etc. field some decent teams.
Don't assume there is such a strong contingency of AHA haters. IMO, strong responses to some AHA postings are often prompted by the material in the original posting itself. This is coming from a neutral party, just my two cents.
In my experience...Tri Metro (vs. the Missota)schools will not have the depth of athletes that the Missota schools can offer (obviously because of school size etc.) Tri Metro schools can play some very nice soccer (tactically and technically) but there is a higher probability that 8th, 9th and 10th graders will get a lot of playing time and when they run into the AA schools they may have problems keeping up physically (as most larger schools have a larger # of 11th and 12th graders playing--speed of play becomes faster, size and speed are greater). I think the Tri Metro is the class of small school conferences (compared to the Christian school conference and other small greater Minnesota conferences) and the Missota is improving as a 'mid major' conference (I think they are on par with the Simley, Mahtomedi, Sibley conference). That being said, I think Tri Metro schools can be interesting as they go through steeper cycles of success (when a successful class graduates their next batch of kids may be younger or they may have a couple of years of rebuilding) and they may have a greater worry of injuries (if they lose 1 or 2 players they can go south quickly.) I like the Northfield team in the Missota...they play with great athleticism and they play fast and furious ball. For Northfield kids, the fall season is THE season and club is secondary. In the Tri Metro, I like Blake...solid team traditionally and I like the overall coaching approaches of PM at Blake, MA at Minnehaha and BD at SPA.
It is hard to compare the impact of enrollment at private schools since they draw students in for such different reasons. Thus, although AHA (who is a very big private school) is much smaller than the public schools in their conference, no one expects them to underperform just because they have a smaller enrollment.
Okay - yes Coach Marshak has asked us not take part in these blogs, but I just recieved an email from him sent to our entire program (AHA) and I think it is FANTASTIC - it has to do with his brother (a referee) and his comments on officiating in this state... this is REALLY awesome stuff and a lot of people in the community should see it:
Hello all,
Below you will find a diagnosis on issues regarding referees and High School soccer that came from my brother Doug, a Duluth area official who also referees USSF and NCAA level games. This is an extremely well thought out description of a serious problem effecting our sport, and I would like everyone to read this and consider the situation as you come and watch, and support our team this year.
DM
We’re all to blame for the state of officiating As it pertains explicitly to soccer, the problem with referees in high school is one of numbers, training, and finances. It's a "perfect storm" which results in a total roulette wheel. The blame for this falls on numerous sources. I think you should feel free to share this with your parents
1) Numbers
Quite simply it is an absolute struggle to find adults willing to be officials, especially soccer officials. There are numerous reasons for this.
To be a quality soccer official, you need to be in above average shape, and society clearly does not reflect this trend. Most people are not in shape. You can be a soccer official in poor athletic condition, but then you will be a poor soccer official. And for people who watch soccer, as fans or players, it's pretty simple to tell the difference between a quality official that covers a lot of ground and a lousy one that stands in the center circle 75% of the time. Understandably, people don't want to be the idiot in the center who can't see anything because he/she doesn't move.
Time is another reason it's hard to find adults. Most of the adult officials I know up here are in their 50's. People in their 20's, 30's, even 40's are just busy enough as it is. They are working jobs, sometimes two, juggling their kids' activities, etc. Most of our younger officials in Duluth are kids who officiated in high school and are now in college locally. They were the cream of the crop as officials in the local youth leagues, and have sought out challenges. But if you're lucky, even for a youth association like Duluth's that features 250 USSF-registered referees, you might get 1 or 2 a year that are willing to make the jump to high school or college officiating. We've got four guys this year locally, and three of them are doing college assignments and MIA for HS game nights half the time. Kudos to them... they need to work college games to keep climbing the officiating ladder, but it sucks for HS!
And lastly, criticism is a big reason why adults don't do it. I cannot tell you how many times I have sat on a sideline listening to fans bash the referee, and when I tell them, "You know, you have a good eye for this, you should come to a clinic!" The response is always, "Oh, I don't have the time!" or they suddenly back off because it's clear they would not want to take the same kind of abuse they dish out as fans. I don't necessarily blame them... it's frustrating to be cheering for a team and see it getting the short end of the stick. But few people consider the impact of such comments and behaviors.
Finally, the influx of players in HS soccer has not been accompanied by an influx of officials. Thanks to the "fair-ification" of youth athletics, everybody gets a chance now, right? So we have Varsity, JV, B, and C squads for numerous large schools, just so everybody gets a chance to play. Problem is, nobody thought to see if there were enough officials for all these games. A week from this Saturday, I'm doing a JV-varsity doubleheader because the games are at the same site. I could work two varsity games, but we're so busy cramming all these games into an 8-week season, the assignors are trying to put warm bodies on the field, sometimes without being able to show regard for the quality of the match. Simply put, the parents and schools have just assumed that officials will apparently spring from the ether to fill these games.
2) Training
I unequivocally agree that high school soccer referee training is inadequate. 100%. The only requirement is a meeting and the test, and that does not make somebody a good official.
I have been told that within the next 2 years MSHSL is going to implement a grading system for officials. Level 3 officials will be the "cream of the crop"... you will have to be level 3 to work state games. You'll have to be at least level 2 to work playoff games. And you'll have to undergo some sort of training program to "level up", so to speak. It's an improvement. Not an end-all, but an improvement.
All HS governing bodies are concerned that severely increasing training requirements could result in a decrease in officials due to increased time commitment. I think the push is to make those training programs "at-home" via the Internet, thus allowing officials to stay up to date on their own time. Ideally, if the entire training program could be online with the league restricting its hand-on approach to on-field assessments and feedback, that would likely be the most productive system.
3) Finances
As we discussed earlier, this is a stickier one, and is joined to the others. I get $67 for a HS center, and could do that by only taking the online rules meeting and passing an open book T/F test. On the other hand, to maintain my Grade 7 USSF level (if I wasn't an instructor) I would have to attend five hours of recert each year, plus do a maintenance assessment, not to mention 16 hours of classroom plus a minimum of 100 games just to get to that grade 7. If I want my 6, I need another 125 games, plus 3 assessments, plus 19 hours of classroom. And when I do U17 summer games (HS age level), I work 10 minutes longer than a HS game and get paid $35. So if you wanted to make refereeing worth your time, which one would you do?
Now, the difference is that I want to be a good referee, not just make a wad of cash each fall, so I do all that USSF stuff. But if the pay difference is that severe and the requirements so much less, I mean, let's be honest here, what do you expect people to do?
It's even more complex than that. I can't speak for the Cities, but up here, the ADs decided after years of pushing for it in negotiations that they would only pay a cap for JV crews. If we want to put 3 on a JV crew, we can, but they're not paying more... split the same amount 2 ways or 3. So all of the younger, less experienced officials are now working JV games as 2-mans, but then they go back to diagonal system of control for varsity. They're not even doing the same system! And the reason is that the ADs don't care. So the ADs are indirectly affecting the quality of officiating by refusing to recognizing JV games as a training ground and eliminating a source for valuable experience.
So the end result of this perfect storm is that it's hard to crack down on a subpar official, when if you do so, there isn't anybody else to take his/her place. We are all responsible for this. From coaches and fans who make the job unappealing through abuse, to the high school association not providing good training, to athletic directors slashing budgets and ignoring the impact on officiating, to referees not having the time to become good at what they do.
And to sum it up, two weeks ago the assignor up here asked me to do a presentation on foul recognition at our association meeting after watching an official with 15 years of experience absolutely ruin a girls game by not calling anything. He said it was a slugfest, and the guy called nothing. The assignor was muttering to me that he didn't know if he felt comfortable having this person center games in the future. Well, this Saturday I'm doing two games, and on one of them I will be an AR for the very same guy. The assignor has no choice... other options are less qualified than this guy. If you don't give him centers, then somebody even worse takes his place. What are you gonna do?
12:42 - That is without a question the single best post I have ever seen on this blog, and that's great that your coach is making an effort to ensure his kids and program see the bigger picture.
I would add from MA's blog that another reason for lack of quality adult officials is the abuse given to younger referees beginning at the u9 level. Competitive parents in games when no scores are even supposed to be kept and verbal disgust at missed calls by teenagers just breaking in to the officiating ranks doesn't translate into these kids having any desire to continue on reffing into adulthood. Vicious circle as demand for refs leads to inexperienced refs placed which leads to increased verbal abuse due to poor calls.
12:42 - what a great post! 1:13, that post above certainly talks about the verbal abuse as a contributing factor, but what is so awesome about that is A) its from a referee's perspective, and B) it shows just how complicated the problem is!
I'm sure DM sent that to his parents as if to say "look, its bad, we all know it, but you screaming at the referee is part of the problem not the solution."
Thats good stuff, I doubt most bloggers will take the time to read it though
Watched a JV game yesterday where the coach was beating up on the single ref for not seeing the out call on the sideline opposite the coach. Apparently the eagle-eyed (and lion-mouthed) coach could see the ball was out from the other side ofd the field.
When the ref let the coach have it for having a single ref and expecting him to see the line the girls on the field applauded the ref.
Listen, some of you folks are quick to discredit an opinion however never come back with substance or credibility. Mentioning these kid(s) negativily does nobody any good. Let's hear some positives about these student athletes. There are players eyes on these blogs whether you know it or not. Be a bit more responsible.
2:08 - i don't disagree with your statement, but personally would prefer kids were not mentionaed at all. what always happens is if someone (and not even related to the player!!) even sincerely expresses a postitive comment on a player all that does is open up the door for the detractors to knock that player down or compare that player to someone else.....then the whole cycle starts again.
2:08pm What should we talk about? Uniforms, the weather? Isn't that kind of the whole point of the blog I do agree with 2:08 about not mentioning kids in a negative light.
Now I'm a soccer dad, but many years ago I was a pitcher in baseball. My dad and older brother taught me to always go up to the umpire and thank him for calling a good game, even if he hadn't given me the corners that game. I heeded that advice through high school, Legion and college. Very soon after graduating from college, I "bumped" into one of the umps who had "called" many of our college games over the four years. He asked me what I was doing now that I was out of college. My response was that like every other recent college grad, I was interviewing here and there. His response was to come and see me next week, and he promptly handed me his business card, which was titled, VP-Personnel, of a Fortune 500 company. When I left that firm fifteen years later, I called him to thank him for giving me the opportunity, he appreciated it. Now, thirty years later, he is retired and a client of mine in the business I am in. Moral of the story, let's teach our kids to be kind to refs. As we speak, my daughter is working at getting better at thanking the refs, and I watch after every game for "that" improvement in her game.
I'm 2:41 P.S. If we didn't care about and respect the game, we wouldn't be posting here. Let's all try to influence what happens in the stands and on the sidelines during games from here forward. The letter from the AHA coach is outstanding and should be seen by all parents. Let it spread.
19/9/08 2:46 PM Another one who really gets it. It's refreshing to see someone who really see's the bigger picture. In business, I think they call that vision. Have a good weekend.
248 is spot on. There are parents who just can't help bragging about their kids and knocking down other kids. Leave names and numbers out of it and talk about the teams.
Now that the righteous deacons of soccer have given us their sermon and pronounced us saved and their egos tweeted can we now proceed with topics of real interest.
The only topic of interest you could come up with with your s------s attitude earns you a buzz-off. Now go to bed before your mother punishes you for breaking curfew.
translation for 12:10 - I'm to stupid to offer anything to this, to lazy to have read the post, or to ignorant to have an opinion... so lets get back to arguing about who is the best and undercutting everyone else's opinion
A lively Saturday of games with likelihood of Sub. East conference title decided MV vs. WDB at 11. Lake Conference vs. Classic Lake BJ vs.Minntonked and section 2 seedings at 1 , and two just once beaten teams Hill Murray vs. Eastview AT 1.
Woodbury is a strong team no doubt about it, but they have had struggles scoring when it comes to physical teams. The Park game this last week was a good example and that is why the game stayed at 1-1
Rosemount had opportunities but couldn't finish. Rosemount had breakaway, GK comes out, Irish player gets around her and then GK pulls down attacker. Foul called, GK gets yellow. Should have been a red as she was last defender. Eagan likes to play long ball to horses up front and send them charging. Beautiful night for a game.
An honest coach that gets the most of his players each year and always threat to beat anyone on a given night and his true winning percentage speaks volumes. Very seldom do his teams get smoked.
polls should not be based on reputation. TP is a great coach but also has a soft schedule. Park or WBL are much more deserved the recognition. Every top team Tony has played he has lost and he has not beat any of the bog dogs yet either
Soft schedule i dont think so... playing 2nd and 9th ranked teams in state twice along with 5th ranked Rochester Century and 7th ranked BJ and Duluth East more than likely one of toughest schedule in state. All the losses were one goal loses not 5-0 smoked outs.
with a whole new coaching staff, duluth east is down this year, so playing two tough games out of conference is nothing to brag about. and if you do not beat any of the top teams you do not deserve to be in top ten. park ties woodbury and WBL is on a roll, both more derserving until Wayzata can beat or tie someone significant
the season records are not up to date. but the problem is, the coaches' poll is taken as gospel by some of the parents... and like most other things, 'if i read it...it's true'.
The polls don't display ties for some reason, only wins and losses. All in all, I think the polls are reasonably accurate, although not enough coaches participate in constructing them, and some that do, don't know a whole lot about teams not in their conference. I think the AA poll has more issues than the A poll. For the most part, the A teams listed are the ones worth watching and are ranked fairly accurately.
1,084 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 1084 Newer› Newest»BJ vs University of E.P Thursday nite at THANKFULLY for players on E.P. turf field. Good luck to teams,players and coaches. And please after the game no whining parents on what might have been, both teams have talented players that will decide outcome.
Can anyone tell me why Blake goes out of their way NOT to play anyone who might beat them? I am surprised they still have AHA and Orono on their schedule. Both those schools play top competition in both class A and AA, yet Blake somehow didn't play in the Challenge Cup this year, giving their spot to Mahtomedi.
Whats up Blake? Play someone.
2:18 - What the heck are you talking about? First, Blake got screwed out of the Challenge Cup. The guy that organizes it didn't even ask them to play, so get your facts right. And , to tell you the truth, the Blake coaches weren't too happy about this. There is no way they would have passed on playing in the Cup. Secondly, I would love for you to list all the tough AA schools that Orono and AHA play. Get your facts down before you type a bunch of crap.
me thinks it's all about sectional seeding and their home field which does suit their style of play (although by the middle of october their home pitch could hardly be called a "field"). they win sections and then roll into state with a very gaudy record and secure one of the top seeds......
Interesting discussion...I checked out schedules....Mahtomedi plays the most AA schools...
Central, Sibley, Woodbury, Hill-Murray, Edina and a bunch of them in their conference...
surprisingly in the rest of the top 10...the little school of SPA plays more AA schools...
(Cretin, Stillwater, Northfield)..
Blake (Hopkins)
Orono (Lakeville South, Northfield)
Minnehaha...none
That being said...I am not sure if at has done much for SPA.
AHA - Bloomington Jefferson, the Missota conference teams twice (not super strong with Northfield and Prior Lake being decent by Class AA standards), plus a non-conference schedule of Blake, SPA, Minnehaha, Orono, and BSM.
show me a varsity coach who doesn't whine...in any sport. it's part of the job.
just about every natural surface that is shared with football is trashed by the time sections begin. like the state tournament, sections should be required to be played on turf if at all possible.
i saw e/p v armstrong at e/p a couple weeks ago. they aren't the e/p of the last couple years.
the '2nd round' of the clc is about to begin. it will be interesting to see who's improved and who's lost focus.
2:58 - Obviously you aren't a Blake backer, but are jealous of their recent accomplishments. They will earn everything they accomplish this year, as they have in the past. The girls at Blake consistently perform at levels that exceed expectations. Sure, they only play a few AA schools (St. Cloud Tech, South, Hopkins), but they do scrimmage the likes of Moundsview, BJ, and St. Louis Park. What they have been doing seems to work.
scrimmage? who cares about thatst cloud tech are u serious? South is middle of teh oack in any major conference and hopkins is not much better. blake plays no one, how do you know that the cup passed them over?
WOW, just got updated on the current exchanges after getting behind a few days. Definitely not much Blake love on this blog. 8:19, you're right, Blake plays no one (AHA, Orono, Minnehaha, SPA, Vis, Breck, Hopkins..). And yes, I will confirm, although I have no direct connections to Blake, they were not invited to play in the cup for some reason. Feed the fire baby!
Class AA
Woodbury, Edina, Eastview, Century
Class A
Mahtomedi
La Crescent, STMA, Benilde, Totino, Blake, AHA, Orono, SPA, Simley, Breck, Rogers, Visitation, Concordia, St. Croix Lutheran, Hermantown, Two Harbors
any scores? LS beats champlin 1-0. LS has 10 corners and has real trouble scoring
6:33:
I've watched Edina all year and their toughest opponent to date was Minnetonka. This team graduated 75% of last years points. If their younger players figure out how to score, with that very good defense, Minnetonka could be tough down the stretch.
AHA 1, SPA 0
Anyone have any details about this game?
Mahtomedhi should play the most AA schools; they are one of the biggest A schools (they have 3 times the enrollment of SPA and twice that of Blake) plus they have a feeder program that most A schools do not have.
the concentrated talent (5 teams) in the clc could play havoc with the overall standings after these teams get revenge on each other.
mtka's tragic loss last season pulled the rug out from under their team which, i think, was undefeated at the time? they look focused when they played edina.
hopkins is usually physical and therefore always dangerous.
wayzata doesn't seem to have filled the void created by open enrollment restrictions.
armstrong has the stud (and the surrounding cast) to repeat...but will the coach let them?
i'm sure every coach (none more than sw) wishes for that 'dream team'...22 players...all orphans!
AHA...SPA. 1-0.
AHA had a more dangerous attack but overall the game seemed rather even with SPA having two golden chances late in the game that they could not finish. AHA's goal was pretty soft...a corner that the SPA goalie caught and then somehow lost her footing and fell back into the goal with the ball. I was impressed with SPA's ability to play better as the game progressed (I am an AHA parent). In my opinion, SPA is about the same as Blake and much better than Minnehaha. I talked to an SPA parent and they said their team is finally getting healthy. I do think AHA is the team to beat in Section 3A (no surprise as I am a parent) but Blake, SPA etc. will be hard to get through to go to State.
6:24 - Thanks for a great recap. And yes, section 3A will once again be a dogfight to get into state. Don't forget that Vis, Washburn, and Minnehaha are in the section as well. This makes even a quarterfinal game a decent match for some good middle seeds.
CLASH of the Minnetonka vs. BJ blogger parents righteeee here on this stage, Saturday Sept 20 all bets are off who can shift the bet makers odds and the publics minds before the game .... stay tuned for more lobotomized loony tunes.
A) Thats pretty messed up that Blake wasn't invited to the challenge cup, and it makes NO sense
B) Blakes schedule is pure cupcake, there is no way around that, that being said they seem to have survived the few challenges with draws this year. I watched two of those games, they definitely weren't the better team in either, but they sure didn't lose either
C) its not all about which class you play, A vs AA, but QUALITY. I can say AHA seems to step up, Lakeville South last year, Jefferson this year, plus BSM and Orono - and those weren't scrimmages.
I sense an undertone here at AHA players/fans may be getting ticked off because they sense anotehr Blake top seed despite their soft schedule - personally, I think no matter what happens AHA should be the top seed in 3A and here's why... take the "big 4" Blake, Minnehaha, AHA, SPA - AHA is now garunteed to have the best record, 2-0-1 against those teams this year, the best Blake can do is 2-0-2. That, and strength of schedule, in my opinion puts AHA past Blake.
correction, the best blake can do against the other 3A "big three" is 1-0-2... just supports the point.
AHA should be the top seed in 3A
Maybe AHA should focus on winning their remaining games first? I don't think they can afford to dump another game against Prior Lake. Recall Blake just tied Orono. AHA will have to play well to do the same. Don't be so quick to assign seeds, there is still some soccer to be played this season. Best luck to all.
Sounds like AHA was fortunate to get a W against SPA yesterday. Although Blake tied SPA, who controlled play? Wins, losses, and ties don't always tell the whole story.
It's AHA with the right cross....
Blake counter attacks with an uppercut.....
Both fighters are now in a clinch.....the referee breaks it up.....
Not sure how Dr. Ferdie Pacheco has the bout scored, but the action is been non-stop this morning.
10:03- I completely agree. Blake outplayed SPA. scores aren't everything...
10:09 - you are right. AHA outplayed Blake earlier this year. scores aren't everything...
AHA was not "fortunate" to get a win against SPA - SPA had a total of three shots, AHA had multiple chances and also a second goal called back on a questionable at best offside.
Also, if you want to play that game then lets talk about the shot count, corner count from the AHA v Blake game earlier this year.
Actually I think the only game that matters still on AHA's schedule with regards to sectional seeding will be the Orono game, only because its a common opponent to Blake. As far as I am concerned AHA can drop another game to Prior Lake, lose to Northfield, whoever - at least they actually play AA schools.
I have to say agree with the case against Blake, they play one of the softest schedules in the entire state. They can't change their conference, but that schedule is gonna give them cavities eventually with all those cupcakes.
I guess when it comes to sectional play, the score is all that will make a difference! In section 3A I don't think it will matter who gets the #1, #2, or #3 or #4 seed for that matter. In the end all that will count is what scoreboard reads at the end of the match.
10:16 - agreed. the big fight is over home field. AHA turf vs. Blake mud.
Please, if AHA drops multiple games against Prior Lake, loses to Northfield, who several single A teams have beat, they don't deserve the #1 seed. It is a different story if they lose to GOOD AA teams. Quality over quantity people.
6:24 AM
don't let DM catch you blogging about AHA on here, if I recall last year he placed a program wide ban on parents and players from these sites because he didn't want them "participating in the idiocy." I'm sure he'd be thrilled to know the cauldron of stupidity is once again broiling his program. (not to suggest your post was anything but genuine!!!)
Maybe the AHA girls should start practicing in the mud just to make sure they don't have an excuse?
i doubt blake will let them use their field.....
i doubt blake will let them use their field.....
10:24
That field was unplayable last year - need proof? Too of the best teams in the state were on it for 80 minutes, and there was no soccer. Need more proof? It was the ONLY game not moved to turf that night. I understand Blake's desire to keep AHA off turf and out of their comfort zone, but that was ridiculous last year. An absolute mess.
Fortunately, after beating AHA for the 2nd time, Blake proved they belonged in the state tournament last year. It is really too bad that section 3A is so stacked again this year, but I guess it has always been that way. Three or four teams in that section are easily in the top 8 of state. I wouldn't be surprised if the winner of that section advances to the final against Mahtomedi, that is if the pairings work out right. Although, Mahtomedi will have to work a bit more this year to get past Simley.
Anyone seen Simley play this year? They seem to be posting some solid results. Thoughts on their squad?
Jefferson will kill minnetonka.
The reason AA teams games are low scoring especially in the Classic Lake and Lake Conferences are that the teams are well balanced and the talent spread pretty much even.If you pay attention and watch the pros it's the same situation. Another factor is that MN doesen't do a very good job developing players with ON THE BALL SKILLS.
Soccer games shouldnt be determined like rugby games, on which team displays the most brawn. Agree that games should be played at site where the integrity and honor of the game and the skills that make the game what it is today can be displayed.
Best games of busy Tuesday night in the Suburban East Conference... M.V vs. WBL and PCG vs WBD both starting at 7.
wdb park 1-1 tie
Apple Valley 1 Lakeville South 0
Chaska 3 - Burnsville 1
3 second half goals by Chaska
How does Vis 5-0 over SPA alter the 3A landscape?
Section 3A.... seeds what they'll be...
1. AHA
2. Blake
3. Minnehaha (beat vis)
4. Vis (beat SPA/lost to vis)
5. SPA
6. Highland
7. Washburn
what they should be...my humble opinion
AHA
Blake
Vis
Minnehaha
SPA
Highland
Washburn
I would have guessed the Vis vs. SPA contest would have been a close one. Vis is a quality team, but things hadn't been going there way so far this year, at least until today! Blake topped Vis 3-1, but tied SPA 1-1. And with AHA beating SPA 1-0 yesterday, this makes section 3A even more interesting.
8:53, despite what the scores are, I think both Vis and SPA are superior teams to Minnehaha, who took a step back today by tying a DeLaSalle squad that has been surprising some teams.
edina 2-1 over hopkins. hopkins went up in the 1st half on an edina keeper 'oops'. edina came back w/2 in the 2nd. the 2nd looked like an 'own goal' from my vantage point but they announced an edina kid got a head on it.
LS got the game taken away from them by the ref.
Any suburban east game scores?
I don't think that you can blame it on the refs. If that was the case, each game the looser could use that for their excuse. It was good defense from AV.
Let's talk big. Woodbury's soon to be completed East Ridge High School/Bielenberg/Danner Complex. 14 full sized soccer fields, 5 practice fields, 8 tennis courts, 8 baseball fields, 10 softball fields, one stadium and a giant windmill to boot.
LS has no one to blame but themselves, yes they had a goal taken away in bizarre fasion, but they also missed four easy ones when they were insde of eight yards. to open the second half, they played a ball on a silver platter to their center mid at the eight, she had time for a sandwich and shot it right at the keeper. LS had at least 5 good chances to score and comes up empty, AV has one and finishes. the refs were terrible and cost LS a goal, but they must finish better
WBL 2
MV 0
WBL dominated most of the night and were much more dangerous.
Congrats to White Bear on apparently upsetting Mounds View, 2-0 , any comments.
Dear LS got the game taken away againnnnn ,,,,well, those who can not benefit from the past condemned to repeat it. Read 5/9/08 5;08 PS. Your team scored 85 goals last year not 95 you have listed in Minnesota State High School Records for 2007.
anon 1035- what are you talking about, is there some sort of conspiracy as to how many goals LS scored last year. who is to blame for this? what an outrage! are you kidding me bringing that up- who cares. what team do you cheer for- maybe edina the team that LS smoked in the final last year. And how much time do you have to know how many goals they scored? Your post may be the funniest I have ever read
They (other than WDB) are starting to beat up on each other. This is starting to be fun to watch who survives the next couple of weeks. Who will this year's sleeper be? Good defense trumps good scoring. Question, who has a good defense and can also score? I don't profess to know, other than WDB, who would that be?
EVHS 3 Rosemount 0
Another classy decision of EV coach who pulled starters and played bench players in second half. Every single player got some quality minutes.
1122 i agree to a point.
in 2005 edina got to the tournament with defense. they didn't allow a goal, in regulation, the entire tournament and still came in 3rd w/mtka.
you have to put at least 1 ball into the back of the net or the entire season is determined by the proverbial coin flip.
good luck to all the teams and coaches AND refs...you'll need it. parents...don't show up on YOUTUBE because of your obnoxious behavior.
Simley - Mahtomedi
Section 3A (4-5 good teams)
Orono - BSM
8 of the top 9 teams in the most recent poll, but unfortunately only 3 get to go to state. No sense in crying over it, but a bit of an injustice to all the players, coaches and fans.
maybe the bubble has burst at MV, they face a tough test and fail over rated?
For the math challenged LS fan open up 2007 state tournament book and then add 5 for state tournament goals plus 80 regular season. Also believe the losses your leader quotes in his coaching career are perhaps in 30s not 20s.
Furthermore, Dear, Dear LS fan in 2007 championship game although vastly out shot by very talented LS team with shots on goal can hardly refer to 2-1 loss as being smoked. Id say a 5-0 loss might qualify as being smoked and weaknesses exposed.
WB outplayed MV - they were the aggressor especially in the second. MV has a tough stretch of games (Stillwater, Woodbury, WB again and Park) over the next 8 days. How they respond to last night will determine whether they are a contender or pretender.
Wondering what certain individual meant by will AHS coach let them reapeat?? Please be more specific!
Was wondering the same thing....
LN beats Eagan 2-1.
That Vis vs SPA score is a bit of a shocker. I watched the AHA v SPA game and while AHA clearly could have won by more than 1-0, it definitely was a closely contested game... then comes Vis who just blows them out of the water???? Was SPA just exhausted from their match with AHA less than 24 hours earlier? Did they just fold after giving up some early goals? Was anyone at that game?
I don't think one score should "alter the 3A" landscape dramatically at the top, but I think it sure does land Vis in the top 4 ahead of SPA, just no way you can seed someone ahead of a team that smacks them 5-0.
12:20, scores have been funky this year at times. SPA gets pounded by Vis, SPA tied Blake, and Blake tied AHA, and AHA beat SPA 1-0, but Blake beat Vis 3-1.
it is so funny to see the uproar over Ls and their stats from 2007 and some coaching losses by their "leader" Not a LS parent but from the Lake and have kids who play with LS kids. Who cares about these stats and who knows what is right or wrong and why do you all have time to check this out? why not talk soccer. it is far more intersting to talk about why LS can't score or BJ seems to be having troubles or even if EP is for real and can beat WB. You statiticians are priceless!
with hs soccer you never know as one or two players being hurt or not at 100% can really alter the outcome since success at the high school level can be really "top-loaded". most teams depend on a few key players (unlike the higher club levels where there is much more depth on most teams). i also think that all the teams mentioned by 12:42 are "good" but not "great" teams so if one steps it up a bit or one has an off day the outcome can be all over the board.
Agree 12:47 as long as they dont file misinformation in Minnesota State High School Records MSHSSCA recognition section, that should reflect achievement as well as honesty.
It will be a long time before you see a team as good as the 2007 Lakeville South State Champs.
Did we all step into a time warp???? How (and why) has this thread turned into a LS '07 flashback? The only thing missing is Bruce Springsteen singing "Glory Days"..........
I think it is because someone was questioning their goal total for last year. Not sure why anyone cares. This year looks wide open to me. Some good teams but none that jump out as being a great team. I am predicting a reprise of the 2006 final with EP defeating Woodbury.
EP will not get out of section.
i thought i saw somewhere that the LS goalie's save percentage was listed as .988 last year but by my calculations it should have only been .979....
does anyone know if this was reported to mshsl? jk
i agree - let's talk about this year as the sectional seedings are slowly starting to shape up or be bantied about.
Agree just put a piece of tape over LS fan that after every loss blames bad officiating for losses including RC, EV, and now AV. Those teams were better than LS. LS fan and his sidekicks short change the efforts of those teams beating a team with three bangu division one prospects and another bangu ODP regional camp player.
Could it be the three Bangu D-1 verbals and one Bangu ODP regional camp player got dragged along to the "show" by KB and KL? Could it be that those three U's will be proven wrong in a couple of years? Maybe?
Was really surprised to see SPA-Vis score. Was not at game but would wonder how was officiated: SPA plays a very physical game, going over and through players to ball. A referee who calls them on that would definitely impact the game. Also Vis' strength is their center mid; don't recall SPA having anyone who would match up well with her. Have seen AHA, Vis and SPA this year; AHA has so much offensive firepower, will be the favorite in Section 3A, especially if game is played on the rug.
Was really surprised to see SPA-Vis score. Was not at game but would wonder how was officiated: SPA plays a very physical game, going over and through players to ball. A referee who calls them on that would definitely impact the game. Also Vis' strength is their center mid; don't recall SPA having anyone who would match up well with her. Have seen AHA, Vis and SPA this year; AHA has so much offensive firepower, will be the favorite in Section 3A, especially if game is played on the rug.
It's not like AHA has been filling up the nets so far this year.
True a 2.6 goals average per game hardly worthy of being described as superior offensive firepower. Better State tournament teams last year Blake 4.5, Mahto 4.1, Toto G 3.8, and BSM 3.3. Afraid A.H.A coach right, this same gibberish spewed out last year, and borders on his fine choice of words ... idiocy. Presiding self proclaimed Official/parent should just sputter to himself and live with outcome which could be same as last year. If credit is due AHA unsung defense that has only allowed 2 goals all season will be reason they might win section.
you make a lot of good points 4:47, but personally i don't much stock in goals per game as it all depends on who you are playing and how you play them. 7-0, 8-0, etc... games against the "have-nots" doesn't tell us much about the team (other than the second string is greedy for goals).
Point well spoken ...but if better AA teams that beat AHA also factored into AHA average of which they didnt score single goal. Then total team average drops to 2.1. Point is with that poor goal/game average and the results of better teams at Class A State Tournament with much higher averages shows that perhaps AHA is not State tournament contender again this year unfortunately and shouldnt be overly promoting unrealistic likehood, to further disappoint fans and players.
5:11 - well if they aren't, then who is out of 3A? Blake could not beat them and they tied SPA who Holy Angels beat.
Hopefully not, but ironically one of the most highly touted and heralded prep forwards might never get to display her considerable skills on the Metrodome field for state tournament team with the graduation of one of AHA better mids in Class A this year and leaving big void in program.
I'm loving all these posts that write off Blake. I'm guessing this just adds fuel to their fire to repeat again this year. They too had the better side of play against SPA despite the 1-1 tie. They also beat Vis 3-1, who just drilled SPA. Lets not get caught up in a numbers game. Fact is, AHA studs better start finding the net. I wouldn't call any player "highly touted" or "heralded" that scored three goals all year up until last night. When it comes down to it, who is going to get the job done? I think SPA, AHA, Vis, or Blake all have a shot at taking home the 3A crown.
Until you win state your just another wannabe. Jealous wannabe that is.
Wouldn't post it if it wasn't true.
1:49 P.M.
Woodbury is better this year, and no, I'm not a Woodbury, but know the type of players they have.
9:07 - I agree that all four teams have a great shot at taking home the sectional title and it should be a fun and exciting playoff. My daughter plays club ball with the player in question and in all fairness she has missed a huge chunk of the season with an injury (did not even play in three games and spot duty in a few others).
9:31 - Are you in 2nd grade? I thought you had to be at least 10 years old to post on this blog?
9:56 - Thanks for the insight
9:31 - I agree with 10:29. And, thing is, you have to get to state to have a shot at winning it. I think your "wannabe" call was not so well thought out.
Saw the Vis SPA game - high speed affair in 1st half - Vis got two early,and their keeper made several nice plays to keep SPA down. 3rd goal by Vis about 15 minutes in to 2nd half took the wind out of SPA.
Vis got 5 goals from 5 players - skilled center mid as mentioned, but excellent outside mid, nice defender, nice GK, good overall team speed.
Must have been their best game looking at earlier results
Agree with wise AHA coach that star forward should be held out and not be wasted on regular high school season games and hopefully gets to play in section playoff games. She'll then be ready once more important club season starts or national team calls.
9:07 dont forget Orono, Mahtomedi. My favorites to play in championship.
Am sure coach of AHA forward also feels she should also get named to All State Team and ESP game based on what she did in National ODP program. Not important whether she plays in high school or how well she or her team does. Like selection process worked last year. Minnesota should get represented by player ODP coaches like DM from other states choose to pick as our best player. Same with other regional ODP players. The other states ODP coaches know more about how good a player is than the local high school coaches here in Minnesota. The out state ODP officials should get a local big club representative to voice and further their picks. This system works well to make sure everyone is on the same page.
9:07 - know the facts before you run your mouth - that player you referenced who only had three goals up until Tuesday had also only played about 20% of the time, she came back from the Nike Friendlies with the U15 National Team (yeah, your right, not highly touted at all) with an injury and has only made a few starts. Tuesday night was the first game she has played close to 80 minutes... 4 goals.
7:42 - not to mention, anyone who has watched AHA knows that their coach simply can't pull the trigger fast enough to get his starters off and his reserves in against the "lesser" teams - unlike some coaches who run up statistics (cough cough, Eagan) against weak teams and then parade their big time scorer around - even though usually 2/3 of their goals come against bad teams.
This forward in question from AHA has barely played this year, she's coming back off an injury, and besides, she's a 15 year old girl and YES the kids do read these things.... be an adult and shut your mouth.
just an FYI - she's played in 7 games, started three, so I would say 1 goal per game is a pretty good average
Mahtomedi still looks to be so far the top Class A team. They have lots of skill, experience, depth, and the one key element that is needed come tournament time - a playmaker who can put the ball in the net (who might also be a top Ms. Soccer candidate).
So far Orono has also been outstanding and we will know just how good they are as they face BSM and AHA over the next few weeks (and then most likely BSM or Breck for the section title).
Also not sure why more people aren't talking about a Simley team that has a nice mix of talent and beats everyone except Mahtomedi. Those two play one more time and then will most likely will meet again for their section crown.
750 your last bit of advice is excellent when it comes to discussing individuals pro or con. You need to follow it yourself.
8:28 - agreed. we should be talking about teams and not players. when will people learn.
wow 8:28 - thats a brilliant post, you master of debate
My biggest question about Blake is will they actually come out and play against AHA if they meet again? Blake, wisely, sat in during the first matchup. Their play maker and best attacking mid played in the back all night and mostly just followed around AHA's top gun. I AM NOT RIPPING THEM, it was a great strategy and they even nearly stole the win after a couple of good counters against an AHA team that was frustrated and tired after a whole night of not being able to unlock the Blake defense. However, I wonder what that game looks like if Blake just "goes for it"?
I don't personally see much of Simley or Mahtomedi - I am kind of waiting to see BSM, Orono, and AHA lock horns over the next few weeks. My advice the AHA people out there, cool your jets, sadly people just love to hate you, that may be lingering remains of the MC era, I dunno.
Personally, I think there IS NO dominant presence in class A, the scores are all over the place.
9:10 - the only one that seems to have separated themselves a bit is Mahtomedi by beating Edina in a shootout in the rain and then beating Simley 2-1 at Simley.
It is great to see the girls blog finally start to match the action of that of the boys blog. It is also nice to see the smaller schools getting some attention. Although some posters should spend more time considering whether or not their message is appropriate and accurate before they publish it, I'm thrilled to see the interest, debate, and energy folks have about girls soccer in MN. Good luck to all!
9:22 - fair point.
Just like most years, the metro section winners will account for at least 7 if not all 8 of the teams from the two classes that make it to the dome (especially in Class AA where there are not that many larger out state schools).
A possible outstate rep at the dome could be Rogers. They have arguably the top sophomore in class A and some other solid players. Depth will be a problem for them however.
Not sure I would call Rogers out state as they are in the same section as Fridley and Totino Grace. They are a very talented team which has gotten better every year (and will continue to) as that community continues to grow (this might also take care of the depth issues down the line).
Busy night of high school soccer , my picks to watch Northfield at Prior Lake at 5 and Bloomington Jeff at U.E.P AT 7.
Jefferson needs to regroup and play hard nosed soccer against EP. Should be a good match up if they can get their confidence up. Look for EP to be shooting high against small GK.
Northfield is pretty banged up from what I've been told.
... and play hard nosed soccer....Are the smack down sisters still playing for Blom. Jeff. who proclaimed last year they would make it to Dome. All those prim and proper frosh and sophs of U.E.P. Ladies please beware of these flying kahbongers. You will be welcomed to a unique brand of soccer you may not have experienced yet.
Envy
Feeling of discontent usually with ill will at seeing anothers superiority or success.
Any early score updates?
BJ-1 EP-1 Halftime
3-1 EP over Jefferson.
EVHS 6 Minneapolis South 0
Six different scorers.
Jefferson loses to EP
Armstrong over Hops 3-2 any play by play or game summary out there.
LS vs LN who claims the city championship, and please no references to officiating.
Correction E.P. 2-0 at half over BJ. BJ attack looked disorganized, played better second half lead by #17.
LS 6- LN-0
Officiating was superb!
LS looked liked the real deal, where has that team been all year?
AV over Rosemount 2-0
Whats the run down on missota game held at 5 with northfield vs. prior lake.
LS math slightly skewed again. 1-1 with LN . So where the city cup end up , think it should end up at North they seemed to be more honest and deserving.
I think they have the boys and girls scores switched online
LS real deal ??? Please 5 of those goals were weak goals any goalie should have stopped . LN coach had horrible subbing patterns -subbing before players get any rhythm and best players spending considerable time on bench
The score of LS, LN was 6-0 and it could have been worse. I do not know if a "good keeper" would have saved 5 of those I saw maybe two bad plays. If there is a "good keeper" where was she? bad goal keeping or not, the LS starters played half the game and the LS subs still out worked LN
7:58am What game were you watching? Some of the goals that we're scored, the keeper had no chance on. Your getting confused with a poor effort defensivly. Subbing patterns was not the issue. LVS outworked LVN from the whistle. I'd like to know best players that we're on the bench. Reference by numbers please. Real deal or not, they stuck it to LVN.
9:33am. Right on the money as is 9:57am. 7:58am Tell your LVN daughter it will O.K.
wow, a crippled Northfield team beat Prior Lake for the second time. I know the haters will chime in but I have to say the Missota Conference is improving and will only get more competitive... Northfield when healthy is a legit "upper middle class" AA, as is Prior Lake (note I did not say elite, don't spaz), while Farmington is getting much better (#15 and #18 would play just about anywhere, big school or small). Then there's that private school from Richfield I won't mention by name to keep the hate spewing trash talkers from riding in.
Did Shakopee girls really beat AHA 4-3?
LS definitely dominated most of the game. Beginning of second half, LN had the LS defense working hard, but LS came back quickly. Good job by both coaches in letting seniors get play time. This makes the cross town "cup" a fun game for all to watch. Looking forward to next year's "cup" battle.
The reason Missota is getting better is the schools are getting bigger. Take Shakopee, they are MUCH IMPROVED... still not what I would call "good" but dramatically better. More students equals more athletes to choose from. That is a district growing exponentially as people find it just too friggin' expensive to live in the city. I've kept an eye on Missota this year, Northfield is just to banged up to be consistent and Prior Lake seems to be treading water, but these schools will continue to get better. Its one advantage I give AHA in the great 3A seeding debate, they play in a predominantly AA conference that, if you're being honest and not just an AHA bashing knucklehead, is a HECK of a lot harder to win than the tri-metro, a collection of tiny private schools.
AHA beat Shakopee 4-0 last night, dunno where you got that score from.
AHA girls won 4-0 over Shakopee, the Boys won 2-1, so I don't know where anyone would have gotten a 4-3 win for Shakopee
anon 11:22 from where does your hatred of LS derive? Bad math, honesty? what is your axe to grind with them did your kid get cut or are you jealous of recent success? Did not see game, but 6-0 is a beating no matter who is playing goalie.
star trib had the score 4-3 shakopee over holy angels this morning.
Star trib is wrong, sure that caused quite a stir with some of those AHA haters. MSHSL site confirms 4-0 in favor of AHA, not to mention... I was there. 4-0 AHA.
So tired of bad officiating. It's really been bad this year. Even when my chosen team has won, it feels stinky when the ref basically ruined the game. I'd rather lose a game and have a well reffed game.
Missota school enrollment (as listed at MSHSL):
Farmington 1436
Shakopee 1435
Prior Lake 1884
Northfield 1223
Red Wing 869
Holy Angels 862
Except for smaller Red Wing (and AHA is a bit of an anomoly as a private school) the balance of the schools are starting to really get up there in enrollment. 10:16 is correct that the larger the pool the better the depth of talent. Many of the players were also involved in solid youth programs in Lakeville, Valley, as well as the rapidly improving CCH and Prior Lake. The Missota also plays home and away so everyone gets to see each other twice which makes the second games real battles due to the adjustments that are put in place. I agree that the Missota is currently a stronger conference than the Tri-Metro and the gap will continue to grow.
Star Trib web site has AHA 4-0, must have been a misprint in the paper
For the most part, the Tri-Metro schools are about half the size, some considerably less, than AHA. Considering this, teams such as SPA, Vis, Blake, Minnehaha, etc. field some decent teams.
Don't assume there is such a strong contingency of AHA haters. IMO, strong responses to some AHA postings are often prompted by the material in the original posting itself. This is coming from a neutral party, just my two cents.
In my experience...Tri Metro (vs. the Missota)schools will not have the depth of athletes that the Missota schools can offer (obviously because of school size etc.) Tri Metro schools can play some very nice soccer (tactically and technically) but there is a higher probability that 8th, 9th and 10th graders will get a lot of playing time and when they run into the AA schools they may have problems keeping up physically (as most larger schools have a larger # of 11th and 12th graders playing--speed of play becomes faster, size and speed are greater). I think the Tri Metro is the class of small school conferences (compared to the Christian school conference and other small greater Minnesota conferences) and the Missota is improving as a 'mid major' conference (I think they are on par with the Simley, Mahtomedi, Sibley conference). That being said, I think Tri Metro schools can be interesting as they go through steeper cycles of success (when a successful class graduates their next batch of kids may be younger or they may have a couple of years of rebuilding) and they may have a greater worry of injuries (if they lose 1 or 2 players they can go south quickly.) I like the Northfield team in the Missota...they play with great athleticism and they play fast and furious ball. For Northfield kids, the fall season is THE season and club is secondary. In the Tri Metro, I like Blake...solid team traditionally and I like the overall coaching approaches of PM at Blake, MA at Minnehaha and BD at SPA.
It is hard to compare the impact of enrollment at private schools since they draw students in for such different reasons. Thus, although AHA (who is a very big private school) is much smaller than the public schools in their conference, no one expects them to underperform just because they have a smaller enrollment.
interesting topic with some good opinions (and so far no school bashing - yea!)
Okay - yes Coach Marshak has asked us not take part in these blogs, but I just recieved an email from him sent to our entire program (AHA) and I think it is FANTASTIC - it has to do with his brother (a referee) and his comments on officiating in this state... this is REALLY awesome stuff and a lot of people in the community should see it:
Hello all,
Below you will find a diagnosis on issues regarding referees and High School soccer that came from my brother Doug, a Duluth area official who also referees USSF and NCAA level games. This is an extremely well thought out description of a serious problem effecting our sport, and I would like everyone to read this and consider the situation as you come and watch, and support our team this year.
DM
We’re all to blame for the state of officiating
As it pertains explicitly to soccer, the problem with referees in high school is one of numbers, training, and finances. It's a "perfect storm" which results in a total roulette wheel. The blame for this falls on numerous sources. I think you should feel free to share this with your parents
1) Numbers
Quite simply it is an absolute struggle to find adults willing to be officials, especially soccer officials. There are numerous reasons for this.
To be a quality soccer official, you need to be in above average shape, and society clearly does not reflect this trend. Most people are not in shape. You can be a soccer official in poor athletic condition, but then you will be a poor soccer official. And for people who watch soccer, as fans or players, it's pretty simple to tell the difference between a quality official that covers a lot of ground and a lousy one that stands in the center circle 75% of the time. Understandably, people don't want to be the idiot in the center who can't see anything because he/she doesn't move.
Time is another reason it's hard to find adults. Most of the adult officials I know up here are in their 50's. People in their 20's, 30's, even 40's are just busy enough as it is. They are working jobs, sometimes two, juggling their kids' activities, etc. Most of our younger officials in Duluth are kids who officiated in high school and are now in college locally. They were the cream of the crop as officials in the local youth leagues, and have sought out challenges. But if you're lucky, even for a youth association like Duluth's that features 250 USSF-registered referees, you might get 1 or 2 a year that are willing to make the jump to high school or college officiating. We've got four guys this year locally, and three of them are doing college assignments and MIA for HS game nights half the time. Kudos to them... they need to work college games to keep climbing the officiating ladder, but it sucks for HS!
And lastly, criticism is a big reason why adults don't do it. I cannot tell you how many times I have sat on a sideline listening to fans bash the referee, and when I tell them, "You know, you have a good eye for this, you should come to a clinic!" The response is always, "Oh, I don't have the time!" or they suddenly back off because it's clear they would not want to take the same kind of abuse they dish out as fans. I don't necessarily blame them... it's frustrating to be cheering for a team and see it getting the short end of the stick. But few people consider the impact of such comments and behaviors.
Finally, the influx of players in HS soccer has not been accompanied by an influx of officials. Thanks to the "fair-ification" of youth athletics, everybody gets a chance now, right? So we have Varsity, JV, B, and C squads for numerous large schools, just so everybody gets a chance to play. Problem is, nobody thought to see if there were enough officials for all these games. A week from this Saturday, I'm doing a JV-varsity doubleheader because the games are at the same site. I could work two varsity games, but we're so busy cramming all these games into an 8-week season, the assignors are trying to put warm bodies on the field, sometimes without being able to show regard for the quality of the match. Simply put, the parents and schools have just assumed that officials will apparently spring from the ether to fill these games.
2) Training
I unequivocally agree that high school soccer referee training is inadequate. 100%. The only requirement is a meeting and the test, and that does not make somebody a good official.
I have been told that within the next 2 years MSHSL is going to implement a grading system for officials. Level 3 officials will be the "cream of the crop"... you will have to be level 3 to work state games. You'll have to be at least level 2 to work playoff games. And you'll have to undergo some sort of training program to "level up", so to speak. It's an improvement. Not an end-all, but an improvement.
All HS governing bodies are concerned that severely increasing training requirements could result in a decrease in officials due to increased time commitment. I think the push is to make those training programs "at-home" via the Internet, thus allowing officials to stay up to date on their own time. Ideally, if the entire training program could be online with the league restricting its hand-on approach to on-field assessments and feedback, that would likely be the most productive system.
3) Finances
As we discussed earlier, this is a stickier one, and is joined to the others. I get $67 for a HS center, and could do that by only taking the online rules meeting and passing an open book T/F test. On the other hand, to maintain my Grade 7 USSF level (if I wasn't an instructor) I would have to attend five hours of recert each year, plus do a maintenance assessment, not to mention 16 hours of classroom plus a minimum of 100 games just to get to that grade 7. If I want my 6, I need another 125 games, plus 3 assessments, plus 19 hours of classroom. And when I do U17 summer games (HS age level), I work 10 minutes longer than a HS game and get paid $35. So if you wanted to make refereeing worth your time, which one would you do?
Now, the difference is that I want to be a good referee, not just make a wad of cash each fall, so I do all that USSF stuff. But if the pay difference is that severe and the requirements so much less, I mean, let's be honest here, what do you expect people to do?
It's even more complex than that. I can't speak for the Cities, but up here, the ADs decided after years of pushing for it in negotiations that they would only pay a cap for JV crews. If we want to put 3 on a JV crew, we can, but they're not paying more... split the same amount 2 ways or 3. So all of the younger, less experienced officials are now working JV games as 2-mans, but then they go back to diagonal system of control for varsity. They're not even doing the same system! And the reason is that the ADs don't care. So the ADs are indirectly affecting the quality of officiating by refusing to recognizing JV games as a training ground and eliminating a source for valuable experience.
So the end result of this perfect storm is that it's hard to crack down on a subpar official, when if you do so, there isn't anybody else to take his/her place. We are all responsible for this. From coaches and fans who make the job unappealing through abuse, to the high school association not providing good training, to athletic directors slashing budgets and ignoring the impact on officiating, to referees not having the time to become good at what they do.
And to sum it up, two weeks ago the assignor up here asked me to do a presentation on foul recognition at our association meeting after watching an official with 15 years of experience absolutely ruin a girls game by not calling anything. He said it was a slugfest, and the guy called nothing. The assignor was muttering to me that he didn't know if he felt comfortable having this person center games in the future. Well, this Saturday I'm doing two games, and on one of them I will be an AR for the very same guy. The assignor has no choice... other options are less qualified than this guy. If you don't give him centers, then somebody even worse takes his place. What are you gonna do?
12:42 - That is without a question the single best post I have ever seen on this blog, and that's great that your coach is making an effort to ensure his kids and program see the bigger picture.
I would add from MA's blog that another reason for lack of quality adult officials is the abuse given to younger referees beginning at the u9 level. Competitive parents in games when no scores are even supposed to be kept and verbal disgust at missed calls by teenagers just breaking in to the officiating ranks doesn't translate into these kids having any desire to continue on reffing into adulthood. Vicious circle as demand for refs leads to inexperienced refs placed which leads to increased verbal abuse due to poor calls.
12:42 - what a great post! 1:13, that post above certainly talks about the verbal abuse as a contributing factor, but what is so awesome about that is A) its from a referee's perspective, and B) it shows just how complicated the problem is!
I'm sure DM sent that to his parents as if to say "look, its bad, we all know it, but you screaming at the referee is part of the problem not the solution."
Thats good stuff, I doubt most bloggers will take the time to read it though
Watched a JV game yesterday where the coach was beating up on the single ref for not seeing the out call on the sideline opposite the coach. Apparently the eagle-eyed (and lion-mouthed) coach could see the ball was out from the other side ofd the field.
When the ref let the coach have it for having a single ref and expecting him to see the line the girls on the field applauded the ref.
Pretty funny, or sad...
Not just parents contributing to this problem.
Great post above! Thank you for sharing.
Was a nice night for soccer. Saw the best on the ball player put on a clinic. Also saw an outstanding ninth grader.
Northsider
Listen, some of you folks are quick to discredit an opinion however never come back with substance or credibility. Mentioning these kid(s) negativily does nobody any good. Let's hear some positives about these student athletes. There are players eyes on these blogs whether you know it or not. Be a bit more responsible.
2:08 - i don't disagree with your statement, but personally would prefer kids were not mentionaed at all. what always happens is if someone (and not even related to the player!!) even sincerely expresses a postitive comment on a player all that does is open up the door for the detractors to knock that player down or compare that player to someone else.....then the whole cycle starts again.
2:08pm What should we talk about? Uniforms, the weather? Isn't that kind of the whole point of the blog I do agree with 2:08 about not mentioning kids in a negative light.
Speaking of the weather...It's going to be pretty nice this weekend.
Now I'm a soccer dad, but many years ago I was a pitcher in baseball. My dad and older brother taught me to always go up to the umpire and thank him for calling a good game, even if he hadn't given me the corners that game. I heeded that advice through high school, Legion and college. Very soon after graduating from college, I "bumped" into one of the umps who had "called" many of our college games over the four years. He asked me what I was doing now that I was out of college. My response was that like every other recent college grad, I was interviewing here and there. His response was to come and see me next week, and he promptly handed me his business card, which was titled, VP-Personnel, of a Fortune 500 company. When I left that firm fifteen years later, I called him to thank him for giving me the opportunity, he appreciated it. Now, thirty years later, he is retired and a client of mine in the business I am in. Moral of the story, let's teach our kids to be kind to refs. As we speak, my daughter is working at getting better at thanking the refs, and I watch after every game for "that" improvement in her game.
I'm 2:41 P.S. If we didn't care about and respect the game, we wouldn't be posting here. Let's all try to influence what happens in the stands and on the sidelines during games from here forward. The letter from the AHA coach is outstanding and should be seen by all parents. Let it spread.
example of why kids should not be referenced....
1st Post
Player A is really good, one of the best for her class.
2nd Post
Player A is not as good as you think because of x,y,z and Player B is just as good.
the next post goes either one or two ways....either
3rd Post-option 1
Neither Player A or Player B is all they are cracked up to be, the best I've seen is Player C.
or
3rd Post-option 2
You don't know what you are talking about "2nd Post" as Player A is the best.
and so on.....
and so on.....
and so on.....
19/9/08 2:46 PM Another one who really gets it. It's refreshing to see someone who really see's the bigger picture. In business, I think they call that vision. Have a good weekend.
2:48pm See jane run, see jane give us a 4th option, see jane bore us. Examples of why you shouldn't blog.
248 is spot on. There are parents who just can't help bragging about their kids and knocking down other kids. Leave names and numbers out of it and talk about the teams.
2:41 excellent post, great short term and long term lesson of life that all can learn from.
Now that the righteous deacons of soccer have given us their sermon and pronounced us saved and their egos tweeted can we now proceed with topics of real interest.
Lets chat about the evil axis of Bangu /thunder and the Irish academy SSM and their role in the financial markets melt down.
12:10
The only topic of interest you could come up with with your s------s attitude earns you a buzz-off. Now go to bed before your mother punishes you for breaking curfew.
translation for 12:10 - I'm to stupid to offer anything to this, to lazy to have read the post, or to ignorant to have an opinion... so lets get back to arguing about who is the best and undercutting everyone else's opinion
A lively Saturday of games with likelihood of Sub. East conference title decided MV vs. WDB at 11. Lake Conference vs. Classic Lake BJ vs.Minntonked and section 2 seedings at 1 , and two just once beaten teams Hill Murray vs. Eastview AT 1.
re: 12:10.....it's a bad idea that bars now have wi-fi.
Woodbury 3 Mounds View 0
EVHS 3 Hill Murray 0
Anyone see the Woodbury game vs. MV game? What happened?
my guess is that the over rated mounds view finally played someone good and were not so great after all. has MV beat anyone?
Woodbury scored on corners otherwise the teams were even
Nobody in the Sub. East is even with Woodbury
Edina 2-0 over Champlin , bench emptied, each forward scored, defense solid with good goalkeeping.
After this year you'll probably never hear of Woodbury again.
Univ. Of E.P. rules.
woodbury scored off the first 3 corners. You think that MV would have been smarter and marked harder after the first goal.
Woodbury is a strong team no doubt about it, but they have had struggles scoring when it comes to physical teams. The Park game this last week was a good example and that is why the game stayed at 1-1
Eagan 4 Rosemount 0
Rosemount had opportunities but couldn't finish. Rosemount had breakaway, GK comes out, Irish player gets around her and then GK pulls down attacker. Foul called, GK gets yellow. Should have been a red as she was last defender. Eagan likes to play long ball to horses up front and send them charging. Beautiful night for a game.
... and a tumbleweed blows across the landscape...
new polls are out:
CLASS 2A
RK (LAST) TEAM (RECORD)
1 (1) Woodbury (10-0)
2 (3) Edina (8-0)
3 (2) Eden Prairie (9-0)
4 (5) Eastview (12-1)
5 (6) Rochester Century (9-1)
6 (4) Mounds View (10-3)
7 (9) Bloomington Jefferson (10-3)
8 (8) Wayzata (7-3)
9 (10) Robbinsdale Armstrong (7-2)
10 (7) Eagan (10-4)
Others receiving votes: White Bear Lake, Duluth East, Coon Rapids, Lakeville South
CLASS 1A
RK (LAST) TEAM (RECORD)
1 (1) Mahtomedi (10-2)
2 (2) Orono (10-1)
3 (3) Blake (8-0)
4 (5) Holy Angels (9-2)
5 (4) Simley (9-3)
6 (6) Benilde-St. Margaret's (7-2)
7 (8) La Crescent (11-2)
8 (10) Rochester Lourdes (8-2)
9 (NR) Visitation (7-2)
10 (NR) Hermantown (11-1)
Others receiving votes: Beck, St. Paul Academy, Minnehaha Academy, St. Michael-Albertville
Nothing too shocking at the top of either Class. Visitation makes a nice jump with SPA dropping down.
why is wayzata a top ten team? They have lost to every tough team they've faced and who have they beat?
An honest coach that gets the most of his players each year and always threat to beat anyone on a given night and his true winning percentage speaks volumes. Very seldom do his teams get smoked.
polls should not be based on reputation. TP is a great coach but also has a soft schedule. Park or WBL are much more deserved the recognition. Every top team Tony has played he has lost and he has not beat any of the bog dogs yet either
Soft schedule i dont think so... playing 2nd and 9th ranked teams in state twice along with 5th ranked Rochester Century and 7th ranked BJ and Duluth East more than likely one of toughest schedule in state. All the losses were one goal loses not 5-0 smoked outs.
with a whole new coaching staff, duluth east is down this year, so playing two tough games out of conference is nothing to brag about. and if you do not beat any of the top teams you do not deserve to be in top ten. park ties woodbury and WBL is on a roll, both more derserving until Wayzata can beat or tie someone significant
the tp effect, armstrong beats wayzata twice and their still ranked below them?
wake up coaches.
they are....sorry
i would not pay as much attention to the coaches poll, it's the sectional seeding amongst the sectional coaches that really matters.
Those records aren't right... Blake isn't 8-0, they are 8-0-3 aren't they? There are some other errors there as well I think
the season records are not up to date. but the problem is, the coaches' poll is taken as gospel by some of the parents... and like most other things, 'if i read it...it's true'.
The polls don't display ties for some reason, only wins and losses. All in all, I think the polls are reasonably accurate, although not enough coaches participate in constructing them, and some that do, don't know a whole lot about teams not in their conference. I think the AA poll has more issues than the A poll. For the most part, the A teams listed are the ones worth watching and are ranked fairly accurately.
which AA teams do you have trouble with?
I agree with some of the previous posts about how reputation tends to stand in the way of results.
Lakeville North and Eastview game cancelled because of lightning. No joke!
Post a Comment