The recent MYSA Annual General Meeting took place on Saturday, November 3rd at the Minneapolis Convention Center. While no meeting minutes have been published yet, they will probably be on this page once completed http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/events/agm.cfm
One rule change was of interest was: 1.4.1.f
This rule requires the same roster for MRL and MYSA league. Thus a team that earned a MRL slot and and a Premier League spot must field the same team for both.
I have moved the AGM discussion from the Wings DOC post and place it here.
179 comments:
Previous posts on the AGM and new rules topics:
Anonymous said...
Did anything exciting happen at the AGM meeting?
5/11/06 12:36 AM
Anonymous said...
One rule change was of interest was: 1.4.1.f Where it was voted to have the same roster for MRL and MYSA league. Thus a team that earned a MRL slot and and a PR spot must field the same team for both. This should be interesting how teams will anounce this change to players.
5/11/06 1:05 PM
Anonymous said...
There's no need to announce this to this years players as all rule changes take effect in 2007-2008 MYSA year.
This MYSA year (2006-2007) has already begun therefore all rule changes and amendments don't take effect until the beginning of the next MYSA year.
5/11/06 3:49 PM
Anonymous said...
Wrong anon 3:49. The rules take effect immediately since the teams have yet to register for the upcoming season. Check with your District Director so you don't make any mistakes!
5/11/06 7:37 PM
TomASS said...
the bureaucracy gets bigger and more controlling with misplaced priorities
5/11/06 9:53 PM
Anonymous said...
Can someone help me with the logic behind this rule change? Why is this rule needed?
6/11/06 7:54 AM
Anonymous said...
This rule is not really needed as the previous 1 club, 1 team, 1 pass rules covers it all. MYSA only allows a player to be rostered on 1 USYSA team at a time. So dual rostering could not happen. MRL requires guest players to be from the same USYSA club and be age appropriate. So guest players from a C1 team in the same club could still play MRL as long as they met the requirements and were listed on the guest player roster by the appropriate deadline.
This rule is from some pissed off club trying to throw their weight around, feeling like the stopped Wings or Bangu from 'pulling a fast one.'
It shows that even with the changes at MYSA there is still plenty of needless bureaucracy.
I do believe this rule will not take affect until next year as MYSA considers the soccer year fall-spring, not spring-fall. Players are bound to clubs/teams where paperwork was signed in August 2006.
6/11/06 10:03 AM
CenterCircle24 said...
The rule was submitted by a member from Tonka United. The rule keeps a club from registering a team in the MRL and then establishing a totally different (new) team to fill the Premier League that the club earning during the previous season. A club could eventually have numerous MRL teams while still having a MYSA Premier team all at the same age level. An attraction of an established club playing in the MRL currently recognized as the top league to play in would attract most of the top talent. Premier teams in the past have declined to play in the Premier League and only played in the MRL but these clubs did not make any effort to establish a different team to fill the MYSA Premier slot. Someone must have let the cat out of the bag.
This is interesting because US Youth Soccer plans to have a USYSA National League in place possibly as early as 2008. The top MRL Premier Division teams would fill the intial slots in the league. By 2010 US Youth Soccer could have a four tier highly competitive league structure with the US Youth Soccer National League, MRL (Region II) Premier League, MRL (Region II) Division I League and State Premier Leagues. Start saving you pennies and miles now.
6/11/06 10:08 AM
Anonymous said...
Tonka is not some "pissed off club" trying to throw their weight around. The MYSA membership stopped Wings and Bangu from 'pulling a fast one.'
Common guys - let's be real. This is a good rule and the bottom line is that Wings and Bangu have been reaping parents off by selling them premier status and all that MRL stuff. You have to play within the rules established by the membership. If Bangu or Wings wants to do things their way, move to another state and operate there. You can do like credit cards do and establish home office in another state and do 100% of your business outside that state.
I know SD would love to do business with any MN corporation.
MYSA is for the good of all MN kids playing soccer and not for a few premier players. MYSA has 80K members and over 50% are rec players. Bangu and Wings are a small minority and you shall not think less of other clubs that are providing the wonderful soccer experience for many kids. With MYSA, kids in Moorhead, Biwabik, or Albert Lea are part of a bigger soccer community and there is nothing wrong with that. I am not in agreement with all things MYSA but, when we push the rules, someone has to stop it and thanks to Tonka for stopping this madness.
Quit crying foul.
6/11/06 10:24 AM
Anonymous said...
Pulling a fast one? Bangu followed the rules which were in place at the time and had their MWRL teams approved and accepted the same as any other Minnesota team. Rule 1.4.1.f clearly stated that the premier slot stays with the club and Bangu filled it. If I'm correct the team that filled the slot won State Cup?
I don't have a horse in this race but if I understand it properly what Bangu did last year opened up 18 new spots in the Premier league for U16 girls?
How is this construed as being a negative when more kids are playing at a higher competitive level?
Sounds to me like some jealous and immature soccer daddy (or mom) is taking out his anger and envy on a bunch of teenaged kids. Some people never grow up.
6/11/06 11:02 AM
nfcsoccer said...
This is more about Bangu than it is about Wings and more specifically about the 2006 girls U16 team and the Stars. The Stars had the premier league slot. Then, Bangu brought in Eric Singer and formed a new team at the age group. Since the Premier league slot belonged to the club and not to the team (Stars), the Stars opted out of MYSA Premier league and the newly formed U16 team took the Premier slot since it belonged to the club.
Anonymous above mentions that "you have to play within the rules..." IMO, Bangu did. The issue is and what MYSA membership needs to decide is who does the premier slot belong to...the team or the club. This rule is about having your cake and eating too. This rule also has nothing to do with the majority of the clubs. It has everything to do with Tonka trying to get back at bangu for raiding their team.
6/11/06 11:08 AM
Anonymous said...
If anyone is crying foul, when there was no foul, it was Tonka introducing the rule. How is it a 'fast one' when it is clearly within the rules? Be specific, don't just throw around general statements.
How does the rostering techniques you described by Wings or Bangu directly affect the vast majority of the kids you mentioned rec players, Moorhead, Biwabik, Albert Lea or even any Tonka kids? If anything the rostering practice creates additional opportunities for kids to play at the top level, versus the 108 (6 team) current spots. It also probably removes the top/super team at each age group from the premier ranks, which means fewer blow outs in Premier league play. This evolution in rostering techniques, player movement, team movement, etc. is exactly what MYSA (and a few knuckle-head CC) have created with all of the rules and restrictions. BTW all clubs have had the ability to do this since the 50%+1 rule was removed.
Again, if you are going to respond be specific and clear on who it hurts and how.
6/11/06 11:10 AM
Anonymous said...
This new rule only impacts Bangu. No other MYSA clubs have used this loophole to create a second Premier team.
6/11/06 11:13 AM
still options said...
This is definately a case of angry parents, playing out their frustrations on kids. Shame on you Tonka.
The same thing can still be accomplished by any club with a premier team. They can recruit and create a new team (super team as the Minnesotan's like to call it) at C1 or C2. Then have the C1/C2 team play state cup and finish in the top 2. This C1/C2 team would then embarrass all of the teams in their league by beating them by 10 goals a game.
Then in the following soccer year get a MRL invite (because of thier top 2 state cup finish). Move the top 18 players to the MRL team and keep the next 18 on the premier roster. Then, if they finish in the top 2 at State Cup the following year, the MRL team will automatically be accepted back into the state Premier league.
6/11/06 11:29 AM
Anonymous said...
still options makes an excellent point.
A club could form it's new team and place it into the premier league in the slot the club earned.
Then they could enter the team that earned MWRL slot into a C1, C2 or C3 league and that roster would match that of the MWRL.
This would be within the rules but destroy the integrity of the C1, C2 or C3 league much more so than the U16 team last summer which won State Cup and premier league championship playing at the proper competitive level.
The more narrow minded individuals tinker with the rules to suit their own little agenda the more convuluted the
6/11/06 12:56 PM
Anonymous said...
This makes excellent point as long as it benefit the interest of the Bangu club.
Note that is the issue here where Bangu fielded two teams to play under one premier spot. I hope that MYSA is not granting MWRL spots to C1/C2 teams. Let's be honest, there are not 18 premier players in MN who have not been picked to play on the premier teams. There is no way Bangu club can all of a sudden create a new premier team with all new players without erroding players from another club . If Tonka is protecting their interest, more power to them. That's why the "narrow-minded" MYSA membership supported the rule. I am sure "broad-minded" Bangu administrators have proposed rules in the past to protect their interest and it got approved by the "narrow-minded" membership. You fool me once, not twice. MYSA members are more smarter than you think. Move on!
6/11/06 1:59 PM
Anonymous said...
Bangu Folks - Don't blame Tonka United for this rule change. I was at the AGM and know that the ONLY Club that voted against the rule change was Bangu. Every other Club voted in support of the change. The people have spoken....
6/11/06 2:04 PM
still options said...
I am not Bangu, but have to say I admire the creativity of the club. It is also both funny and sad to see so much attention and energy to be spent on the CC trying to stop Bangu and Wings from any further dominance. These clubs have certainly distanced themselves in both developing players and fielding very competative teams.
Anon 2:04 can you give us a role call of who voted for it? Did everyone vote for it or just those who voted, vote for it. Did any clubs abstain from voting?
Though I disagree with the rule because it simply wasn't needed and does not do anything but make a few clubs feel a little better about stopping other clubs from attracting their top players, Anon 1:59 makes a valid point. Players would probably be pulled from other premier teams. So let’s not hide the rule change under auspice of what is good for the players in the rural communities or metro community based clubs. This vote was created by, and voted for, by clubs protecting the feelings and egos of the adults running them, not their players, but themselves.
With the new rule, I would hope that MYSA does not intend to roll back the fairly gained premier spot for the Bangu club as the soccer year has already begun and the teams have already been formed.
6/11/06 2:27 PM
still options said...
To the point about MRL, I believe historically MYSA has offered the MRL spots to the top 2 finishers in the state league and the state cup champion (if not a top 2 finisher). It looks like this year spots were offered to all State Cup semi finalists. I don't know that there are specific rules anymore about which teams are offered spots. I would hope that if any team won state cup, they would be offered a MRL berth. Afterall state cup is the real state championship.
6/11/06 2:32 PM
MWRL is over-rated and over hyped. Save you money and play a couple better showcase tournaments instead of spending the money on gas and hotels every other weekend to cram 2-3 games into a weekend.
MWRL sounds flashy but at the end of the day it is more sparkle than susbtance and it is a tool by many to lure in uneducated parents.
The Spring league that MN usually plays in (because HS in the fall) is usually worse than the Fall league because most states have HS seasons flip-flopped with MN's. The one allure is the Regional Qualification but most top age group teams should not have a problem with that in MN.
I do think it is better than PR league play, but playing in a couple more decently formatted showcase tournaments would be a wiser use of time.
6/11/06 2:47 PM
still options.. you make a valid point that state cup is the real state championship. If this is the case, any team can be granted MWRL spot. It becomes an issue when the C1 or C2 team that won state cup comes back to MYSA DOC and ask for a premier spot the following year because they did well in state cup. If being a premier team in MN is not that important, then any club can field C1 teams or C3 teams for that matter and play state cup. If you win state cup as a C1, C2, or C3 team, you are awarded MWRL spot. I don't believe the general membership had a problem with that. It was the issue of saying to parents and players, you have a premier team when you don't have it and try to field two teams under one umbrella status. Again, the MYSA structure starts at C3 and you work your way up. One team, one roster. That is what the membership wanted.
I'm afraid if I'm reading this all correctly we'll see exactly what anon at 12:56 says will happen
The rule as I've heard says the MWRL must match the MYSA team roster. It doesn't specify premier, C1, C2 or C3 level.
A club would only need to enter their team that qualified for MWRL team with the exact roster into a C3 league and they meet the criteria. They could still hold the premier league slot for another of their club's teams.
Does anyone like 20-0 scores? 30-0? Do you want to pit MWRL caliber teams against C3 teams? It appears to me that we've set the stage for that to happen if this rule is pressed into play for summer 2007.
How is this new rule helping soccer development in Minnesota. It seems rather short sighted from my perspective.
To Anon 2:04 - how can you say "don't blame Tonka United..." for the rule change. They introduced it and used the same old CC 'they are stealing our players' garbage to trick everyone into voting for an awful rule. I'm guessing this ruling could get pushed to MRL as they have their own set of by laws.
miac alum,
Player development??? You've got to be kidding? This rule amendment wasn't proposed with player development in mind.
The purpose of this rule was to prevent Bangu, Wings and the St Croixs of the world from developing stronger programs with multiple teams at higher levels of play similar to the Chicago Magic, Vardar, Eclipse, Carmel United and the like.
We wouldn't want any of our states clubs to be able to compete with clubs like Scott Gallagher, FC Milwaukee or Ohio Elite on a regular basis would we? It's more important for "my suburb to beat your suburb" than for Minnesota teams to have success at the regional level.
The sole purpose of this rule change was to slow the pace of Bangu and Wings ever growing dominance here in Minnesota.
I believe both Wings and St Croix voted for this new rule at the AGM. The only votes cast against it came from Bangu.
Question for anyone who attended the AGM.
Was the major lawsuit that's been hanging over MYSA adrressed at all?
Was there any discussion of how much it has cost in legal fees?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Stay on topic. Save the my club is better than your club for another time.
Anon 5:08
Wow...this blog has been hopping since this morning!
I'm a Bangu dad and I don't think Tomass is a Bangu basher. I think he's an equal opportunity basher who calls 'em as he sees 'em. Personally I like his style.
There is a perception that the Wings boys program is stronger than Bangu but that is changing and I think you're pretty accurate in your overall assessment.
The Bangu boys won State Cup last year at U13, lost in OT at U14 and won at U15. All 3 of those teams have to be considered among favorites in their age group along with the U18 boys.
The new U13 group will be good but will face strong competition from solid established teams at SCV and MU and may be a year away from being at that level. I'm sure Alex Bunbury working with this group will have them on a fast track to the top however.
I agree with Tomass in his assessment of MYSA and their lack of focus on development for the elite players. Bangu and Wings are doing an admirable job of filling this role but continue to get hit with cheap shots from the CCs at every turn.
We're becoming more regressive with each passing AGM as myopic CCs propose rule changes they believe will keep their "star" players from coming over the the "dark side". LOL.
Only a matter of time until a different league pulls the top teams and player out of MYSA. State league will be replaced by a US Club league and Midwest Regional league will be replaced by Super-Y.
Can someone tell me the history of player development with the Bangu club? Even on the girls side, the team DS took to nationals came from MN Valley. Blackhawks, Kellix, Newcastle, Kickers where are thou?
Here is a statement from VP Development report, MYSA ODP teams perform at a comparably high level relative to our club teams at the regional competition. MN had 19 boys and 9 girls that made the final regional ODP pools. Go chew on that. MYSA is developing players at regional level compared to club teams. Let's leave the issue of player development to MYSA.
Why is the anger not towards VP of Development and towards tomass?
I delete 12 entries consisting of a ridculous exchange between Tomass and Lcfan (and a few Anons egging them on.) If you just want to cast insults and bicker, start your own blog.
I assume MYSA staff read this or other blogs, how about chiming in hear with the reasoning for the rule change? Would be nice to hear it from the horses mouth so to speak.
nfcsoccer's description (see above) is the accurate background on why this rule was proposed and passed.
anon 632 - Thank you for the clarification. Are you part of the MYSA staff involved with the details on this change? If so, please pass along how this is good for Minnesota soccer and not about clubs "owning" players. I see alot of anon speculation I truly would like someone from MYSA to explain this to us in the real world.
MYSA staff are puppets of the membership which is dominated by the community clubs...they're powerless.
This is why we need US Club Soccer to establish itself here in Minnesota.
I've heard that after a lot of half hearted attempts over the last few years that there will a major effort to establish a US Club Soccer league in fall 2007.
OK, so what does that mean for those of us who are new at this?
I suspect anon 8:37 is right.
This will most likely be the genesis of US Club Soccer leagues in Minnesota. Bangu and Wings would be foolish not to jump into US Club Soccer with both feet at this point.
When you have envious little soccer daddies picking up their ball and going home when they learn their little Suzy or Lindsay aren't good enough to play with the big girls it's a sad and pathetic situation.
When they get home they write rule proposals to prevent the "big bad wolf" from improving their program and stimulating the development of soccer in Minnesota.
People aren't proposing these rules to help the kids or improve player development in Minnesota but to protect their turf so "my suburb can beat your suburb" as has been noted in earlier posts. Try to think beyond Hwy 101 and even the state borders.
If Bangu wants to lead the charge for US Club Soccer I know I will contact our club president and propose that we hop on the US Club Soccer bandwagon.
If we don't we will evolve into nothing more than glorified rec leagues in this state.
Tomass,
I'm anon 8:37 and trust me I have all the respect in the world for the MYSA staff in the Minnetonka office.
My comment wasn't a slam on them at all. If those people had the power I'm confident we would see us making strides to be more competitive within our region and a greater emphasis on player development.
Unfortunately our state organization isn't structured that way and the result is soccer moms and dads making decisions that may be best for them locally but not for soccer globally.
I think you and I actually on the same page.
Thank you Tomass. A thousand apologies to the blog readers, mnfutbol and Tomass. It will not happen again.
US Club is another national youth soccer organization. The largest of the 5 or 6 that I have heard of include USYSA (MYSA), AYSO (American Youth Soccer Organization) is roughly the same size as USYSA, and I think US Club is third, but have not seen registration number lately. Another important organization is USL. They are league focused, including 4 or 5 levels of semi-pro (MN Thunder), amateur and youth (Super-Y).
These organizations provide insurance, state level organizations for leagues, state tournaments and national tournaments, organization, bylaws and rules, affiliations with US Soccer, and many other soccer functions.
Other youth sports have a similar set of national, regional and/or state governing bodies.
Of the 3, USYSA/MYSA have the most restrictive policies and rules for rostering and leagues. MYSA has taken the USYSA rules and supercharged them with silly and overly restrictive rules from the membership (like the one recently passed, where the adults that run the clubs fight to try to keep power and stop other teams/clubs from improving...like someone else state earlier "my suburb is better than your suburb").
In MN, the only significant organized competitive league is the MYSA league. In many other states there are competitive leagues governed and sanctioned by US Club or AYSO or other state level authorities.
The MYSA leagues are set up to be balanced and focus on fun. Bangu, Wings and a few others would probably prefer to have a league that pushed the cream to the top, from a competitive perspective. Many argue that MYSA, in serving the masses, is ignoring the top level player. MYSA does not have to cater to everyone. Many soccer people would like to see a higher level of youth soccer that allows the top players to develop to a higher level.
US Club has developed out of the national recognition that USYSA is to big for its britches. US Club is trying to make is easy to start sanction leagues in states where additional leagues are in demand. MN is getting close to having enough clubs signing up for USClub to actually form a separate set of leagues. It is very likely that the initial leagues would be at every-other age group (U12, U14, U16, U18) and run on a slightly different schedule.
Right now, a number of clubs/teams are putting together US club roster specifically to travel to out of state tournaments. That allows say 2 premier teams to take their top 7 players, who want to travel and play out of state, and a couple of the top C1 kids from other teams and put them on the same roster. This roster/team can not be used in any MYSA event or league. Most tournaments now allow both USClub and USYSA rosters.
Another possible leverage point, benefit of US Club is for HS soccer. A HS team could, register some of their So, Jr and Sn on a US Club roster and play in the middle bracket at USA Cup (and other tournaments in the August timeframe.) This would give them an early start to training for HS. I believe their coach would not be allowed to officially be involved but an assistant or parent could act as the coach.
I think ultimately, US Club soccer is destine to get a real foothold in MN. The initial year or two of leagues may not be spectacular, but it will improve with time and offer additional soccer opportunities for players of all levels. It will probably eventually end up having control over the top level youth league. MYSA and its membership will free themselves of the headaches associated with the youth premier league and C1, C2 and C3 leagues will flourish.
Lastly, this is not meant to disparage MYSA. For the most part they do a good job running state cup, leagues and ODP. I agree with Tomass that they are pushed around by CCs who pay large annual participation fees.
OK guys, quit the child’s play and get real. Tomass and Icfan, you know how long US club soccer has been around and what have they have accomplished? We have talked to Chris at US Club soccer before and infact even met with him when they held their nationals in Blaine. This group is all talk and no action.
It is like Notre Dame or Michigan saying they don’t like money going to non-revenue generating sports and that NCAA caters to female sports that don’t generate revenues. ND and some of the big football schools may not like what NCAA is doing either but ND has to play by the rules (title 9). At the end of the day, NCAA has several small schools that they have to worry about not only the big ones with hugh TV contracts.
Are we happy that the our girls get college scholarships for playing non-revenue generating sports. If it were up to you guys, we’ll take away their scholarships because they don’t generate revenue and these sports are not competitive. NCAA like most big organizations is trying to cater to soccer and other programs for ALL their members.
The CC provide several kids the opportunity to have fun and not worry about the egos that transcends the competitive nature of youth sports in America today. Don’t get me wrong, I like to compete but you know for all the good things about competition and trophies, kids want to have fun and that is what they remember in the long run.
Whether we like it or not, we have a good thing going in MYSA and for all that Bangu and Wings are doing, there is also good involved. Let’s keep working towards creating that environment for ALL our kids to have fun and not only the elite players. I am always concerned about the least of 80K kids many of whom are not even reading this blog. Tomass or icfan, do you have kids in Wings or Bangu? Take them to any of the CC and they will have just as much fun for less money. Actually CC stands for Country Club.
At the end of the day, US Club Nationals are a joke, everyone knows it. Eclipse referes to them as the handicapped national championship. As long as the majority of the nation continues to compete through the USYSA National Championship Series, US Club will be secondary and the elite clubs of the state and nation will continue to sign up because they want a piece of the legitimate championship. Face, Bangu needs MYSA and USYSA more than MYSA needs Bangu and MYSA knows it.
If US Club Soccer starts with fall leagues that would be very wise.
Get the young players families on board with US Club soccer so they're not MYSA drones by the time their kid is U13.
After a few years US Club Soccer will be established here and more entrenched nationally.
Look at the clubs across the country who compete in US Club Soccer...they're for real.
It's just a matter of time until USCS becomes the real national championship. It might be 5 years...maybe 10 but it's inevitable.
Any MN club is free to join the US Club soccer. Leave MYSA and play the US Club League for one season. When you make it nationals, you will wish you were playing the MYSA premier league or Chevy Cup. Their nationals comprises a bunch of C1 teams with a sprinkle of sub par premier teams.
US Club vs. USYSA national winners from Gotsoccer.com rankings:
Boys Girls
USC USYSA USC USYSA
U14 #2 #6 #21 #1
U15 #7 #1 #3 #1
U16 #4 #2 no USC super group
U17 #7 #1 #11 #4
U18 #7 #3 #6 #2
For U14 USYSA I took the top regional champion at U13 (as USYSA only goes to regional for U13-now U14.)
Don't know if the points awared for USC and USYSA tournaments and national championships are equal. I would suspect that the USC tourney, in general, carry a lower point value.
USC champions a joke? Handicapped national champs? Nope. But USYSA champs do have a higher national ranking. I think most would agree that the quality is not equal, but it is close and will continue to get closer.
buggers! try this:
....Boys.........Girls
....USC...USYSA..USC...USYSA
U14 #2....#6.....#21...#1
U15 #7....#1.....#3....#1
U16 #4....#2.....no USC super group
U17 #7....#1.....#11...#4
U18 #7....#3.....#6....#2
anon 1147.
looks like anon 12:02 did his homework and you didn't.
It's pretty apparent you have zero experience at the USCS regional level. Open mouth insert foot.
USCS will continue to become more and more competitive each year.
Many of the top clubs from around the country compete in both organization's championships.
You both might be saying the same thing? Don’t just compare the champions. Compare who they played to be crowned champions. MYSA/USYSA rules!
It like comparing MLS to EPL and saying just because a MLS team can beat Chelsea in a friendly game, the gap between MLS and EPL is getting closer. Not!
mysa 2020,
It looks like the quality between USC and USYSA is pretty comparable.
It seems to me the big difference is that USC does not have discredited current and former officials spending six figure sums of their member's money to sue parents.
The fact remains Bangu and all the super clubs will have to abide by MYSA rules whether it is this year or next year.
Even when and if Bangu decides to join USC, there are rules. If you think working locally with MYSA is rough and ugly, try working at national level with USC and competing for attention with clubs from California.
MYSA and the CC hope to see soccer grow in MN where not only the rich folks are involved but all MN kids. Bangu mgmt still don’t get that. When are we going to have regular street kids just play for fun like they do in BB or football? Why do we have MYSA? Because elite clubs wanted to stop some of the poor people from playing soccer in the US. Elite clubs could not manage themselves and work harmoniously. If it is not Bangu vs. Wings, its Bangu vs. Woodbury and now it is Bangu vs. Tonka.. Who is your next target? Throughout all of this, Bangu parents and management have done nothing wrong and are completely innocent. They are the good guys.
Plain and simple, MYSA wants as many kids as possible playing soccer for as little money as possible. Why does Bangu not have a rec program? Try running a rec program and see how much work it is and yet the kids have great fun. The egos and snobbishness of some of the Bangu parents prevent many kids from playing this great sport. Bangu’s mission to become number 1 is great for those who are paying the high cost to boost their egos. There is always going to be a place for the poor kids who can;t afford the big dollars just to play soccer. That’s where MYSA comes in and the highest level for some of these kids is the MYSA Premier League. That must be kept clean and not contaminated by elite club management trying to circumvent the rules. Get it: one team, one premier spot. Thanks Tonka or whoever for bringing this to the forefront. Maybe it was the St. Croix or Woodbury whose paths Bangu has crossed in the past!
How does this rule get the "regular street kids" playing soccer? How does this rule favor more kids playing soccer in Minnesota?
"Why do we have MYSA? Because elite clubs wanted to stop some of the poor people from playing soccer in the US." Uh?
"MYSA and the CC hope to see soccer grow in MN where not only the rich folks are involved but all MN kids." Really?
Tell us exactly what Woodbury, Wayzata, Eden Prairie have done to import poor inner-city kids into their suburbs and given them the chance to play with them.
"The egos and snobbishness of some of the Bangu parents prevent many kids from playing this great sport." Really? Why don't you inform us with specific examples.
"Get it: one team, one premier spot." That was already the case. That got changed because these teams who held the spot left their cc for Bangu and Wings.
Actually, this is one of the best comments ever! The more I read it, the more I laugh at the absurdity of it.
anon 2:05
I would guess Bangu doesn't have a rec program because the community clubs do an excellent job fulfilling that need in Minnesota.
Your comment "Because elite clubs wanted to stop some of the poor people from playing soccer in the US" I find rather bizarre.
You also seem to be claiming Bangu has done something wrong. If so what have they done? What rule have they broken?
Bangu and from I can see also the Wings seem to be the two clubs focusing on developing players and teams whose goals are to compete on the regional and national levels. Is there anything wrong with that. Every state in the country has a few clubs who have that as their objective.
Does the Chicago Magic have a rec program? How about Vardar? Chicago Sockers? Scott Gallagher? It's hard to be everything to everybody and do it all well. Bangu has chosen to focus on the upper 5% of the players.
I've heard Bangu honchos say on more than one occasion that the CCs do a great job for about 95% of the kids in our state.
Bangu and Wings are filling the niche for that other 5% and personally I don't find anything wrong with that.
mysa2020 - "The CC provide several kids the opportunity to have fun and not worry about the egos that transcends the competitive nature of youth sports in America today."
Stop it my sides are killing me.
Are you actually implying that Wings/Bangu are not having fun.
I bet the cry from the Woodbury kids prior to the Abboud blow up was " Mark must go, I am not having any fun"
Help me I can't breath - your a comic, right.
The vast majority of Wings and Bangu (and other elite teams/programs) teams carry scholarship players. That means that the parents of the paying players are tossing in 3-4K per scholarship to cover all of the costs. If they are carrying 2 scholarships, then the number is 6-8k. That comes to about $500 additional per family. Now multiply it over 4-6 years. They have been active in getting kids that can not afford to play at a high level a unique opportunity.
I think most of the previous post are implying that CC and elite clubs have different missions. I don't think anyone is arguing that point. Each needs to take a differnt approach to how to be successful. Each family needs to do what works best for them. Both systems have challenges and successes stories.
Kids should play and train with others that have a similar level of committment, ability, and dedication.
Bangu and Wings are filling the niche for that other 5%? Are you kidding or what. MYSA membership stands at 80,000 members. Bangu and Wings combined don't make up 5% of MYSA membership. So MYSA membership does not need Bangu and Wings. Bangu and Wings needs MYSA to be successful.
The rules from the AGM in place so move on. Go fight another fight.
BTW, Bangu or Wings are not to be mentioned in the same breathe as Chicago Magic, Vardar, or Sockers. We are comparing MLS clubs to EPL clubs. Stop!
I've been out of the Bangu club now for a few years.
We never paid that much out of pocket to help the "scholarship players". Help was given in other ways.
The Bangu coaches who select a scholarship player for the team waive their coaching fee for that player.
The club generally will waive the player registration fee. We also had scholarship players room with other players when traveling to not incur additional hotel expenses and drive to events with other families when possible.
We had parents on the team offer "free airline tickets" to players using their frequent flyer points.
There are lots of creative ways to keep costs down. We've had families find sponsors in the "Hmong community" for some of our Hmong boys.
From my experience the club/team did a nice job of managing these situations to avoid placing undue burdens on the paying families.
Bangu has done a lot for some players/families under trying circumstances.
You are correct, on the girls side Bangu is far superior to any of those 3 clubs.
Its interesting that almost all the Super Club trash talk is only coming from the Bangu bloggers and not from the Wings side. Wings has a history of developing its Premier teams from its Rec program and Bangu typically recruits theirs. This new rule hurts Bangu the most and based on the posts from the Bangu blog writers, they are feeling some pain from it.
I have been frustrated by the lack of player development in our club in the past 5 or 6 years. Especially on the boys side. Our good boys teams were assembled of the years. Some of these date/ages might be off a little.
Wings 19s - landed at Wings as 16s from TCF Fire & Maplebrook days as 13s, 14s, and 15s. Then 18s team, 7 or 8 from Hopkins team that was destroyed as part of a Ticarro fiasco. Bangu players also joined this team at 18.
Wings U18s - small number of the players remains from U13/U14 days. 13/14s team was built from recruiting from Apple Valley, Whitebear lake and others (was under the auspice of Super-Y). Many from Blackhawks as U15s/U16 Others at U17/U18 from Bangu, Wayzata, Bloomington and Duluth.
Wings U17s - 3 or 4 players left from 11/12s days. At 13/14 many new players came in as part of building a Super-Y team (which didn't happen.) More recently, many players recruited from Maplebrook and Blackhawks over the past 2 years. Some of their immigrant players were picked out of rec leagues over the years.
Wings U16s - has more players from the U12, 13 and 14 ages. But most of the top players were recruited in at/after 14.
Wings U15s - a number of kids were developed by Kickers and/or Maplebrook.
Bangu has a mess to deal with on the recent rule clarification. It almost makes me laugh that they were busted. Probably some pissed off players. We will probably benefit as some of these girls won't go back to their previous teams because of pride or they may not be welcome.
are the u16 premier girls(team below the stars or the 17 blue team going to lose their premier status as a result of this rule?
I don't want an opinion...i'm wondering if anyone knows with certainty what the deal is
Neither.
This rule amendment cannot be enforced retroactively.
It will all be sorted out at the beginning of the next MYSA year.
Mercy...lots of thoughts on a single rule clarification. What other rules were up for a vote?
I think MYSA membership has the right to vote-in any rules or rules clarifications desired by the membership. As long as they are reasonable.
While I disagree with this rule clarification, as it seems to have been proposed as payback, it is reasonable, the membership has spoken.
Tell me how you or anyone can call payback(revenge, a snit, or a group hanging)a reasonable response?
My kids play for Bangu. I am not saying that payback is reasonable, I am saying that the ruling stands on its own, regardless of the reasons it was submitted. I would personally rather see flexibility in how teams roster their earned premier and MRL slots. If I had a vote, I would have voted against the new/updated rule. But the body of clubs that make up MYSA wants less flexibility.
Well.....lets see....first the rule is its not the player stupid....its the club. Now....I am hearing its not the club stupid...its the players.
Its fun to see the gymnastics that MYSA goes thru to serve the CC.
I think their contortionist rule making would give Cirque de Soliel a run for its money!
While many clubs are spending a HUGE amount of time and energy trying to put up roadblocks in front of those few teams and clubs that are trying to meet the challenge of competing regionally/nataionally, the clubs they are trying to "bust" just keep plugging away and getting better.
I appreciate what MYSA and the vocal ccs have done in the recent past. A few short years ago, Bangu was merely a collection of teams playing under the same name. Now, thanks to the efforts of mommys and daddys who were/are mad at them, the club has become a much more focused organization. What used to be a club that collects players at old ages is now a club that has a growing program at young ages.
The club challenged for State cup at young ages last year, winning the youngest boys and girls titles (U13), losing in OT in the next youngest boys (U14), and winning both the next age group in boys and girls (U15). Interestingly, the U14G age was won by a team that was developed at young ages by Mark Abboud, using the same programming that evolved into the Bangu Academy program.
Interestingly, at a recent gathering of docs, the doc of a large community club asked the question, "What the (expletive deleted) are we going to do about Bangu?" Then, after sharing his disdain for the most often targeted club, the imported coach shared how much he had to recruit from surrounding areas to make the team he coaches competitive. Hmmmmm. I am sure his concern is at least partially driven by protecting his salary, but it may also have to do with the idea that a bunch of North American coaches can operate at a pretty darned good level. No need to go off on a tangent wondering why this imported genius is not in his home country making a living, but chose instead to come to this one......
I have a kid on both a cc team, and one on a regionally/nationally competitive team. I think I have a pretty good grasp on the reason and purpose for both types of programs. I really wish that the community clubs - who generally do a wonderful job of providing soccer opportunities, many even at a pretty decent level - would understand that they cannot possibly provide the same type of environment or program offered by the Bangu type teams and clubs. If these comm club programs spent more of their energy improving their programs for the long term, rather than in trying to slow down the juggernaut, their kids would be better served.
Of course, most of these cc leaders will not be around long enough to see any real change - they will be gone as soon as their kid ends their time in youth soccer, rather than being involved and focused on a longer term vision that goes well beyond what would directly impact their own kid.
anon 443
Your comments are rational and well thought out. Entirely too logical for those filled with rage, jealousy and in a rush to gain revenge to comprehend.
These envious little men who try to live their lives through their kids become totally irrational when their little "Mia" is told she isn't good enough to play on the best team.
So instead of acting like adults they act out on their juvenile frustrations and their emotions manifest themeselves in other ways.
That's how we end up with so called "adults" venting months of anger and pent up frustrations with actions meant to harm a group of youth soccer players.
My advice to these vengeful anger junkies????
Please go seek professional help...a well trained psychiatrist might be able to help you get past these repressed feelings of inadequacy.
Anon 4:43 hit the nail right on the head. That post should be the final statement in the whole Bangu bashing fest that has been on the various blogs over the last year and a half.
Anon 8:52, Lets propose this new ruling in the spirit of yesterdays elections which brought the party of lollipops and warm feelings back into power. All age group classifications are now rescinded, no game scores will be kept, the only penalization will be if the player excels in any way on while playing. LETS BE FAIR TO EVERYONE, INCLUDING PARENTS LIKE YOU WHOS EGOS HAVE BEEN BRUISED.
I just don't understand the hostility. Choices/options are good. We supported CC soccer for 9 years. Now we support Wings/Bangu as they could provide what our children were looking for at this point in time; a coach who actually knew about soccer, all the training they wanted, and other players who wanted to work hard and be competitive. We tried to stay within our community but like any consumer if the product isn't what you want you shop and purchase elsewhere. The big communities like Minnetonka, Woodbury, Wayzata, Eden Prairie appear to have the ability to provide quality programs. But what about the small clubs like Dakota Rev and Apple Valley? It's hard to to get enough talent and families willing to make the commitment to become a top team. I have watched talent stream away from these clubs because development and quality coaching were not available. I think if you have a good product players will not be as ready to jump ship. Let's work together on providing positive opportunites for players in the least restrictive environment.
Pre-election stress syndrome was to blame for the rage and anger.
Hopefully post-election stress syndrome is less vengeful. Now that we all have our favorite candidates in office, we can now find common grounds. It time to heal. Let’s all sing kumbaya…
You missed one thing: "I'm mysa2020, and I approve this blog entry." :-)
I am conflicted by this new rule. I firmly believe that if a player is to grow and become better they must train with and play against strong competition. (Much like our education system the) Community Clubs have taken on the task of accounting for all levels of play from Rec. to Premier, and much like our education system the gifted seem to get left out because they are generally few in number and don't struggle. The driven talented player has earned the right to pursue the high level competition like MRL can provide (should they make that choice).
I don't think the Elite clubs fully understand the ripple effect a talented player leaving a CC team creates. I have a player who left our small local club for higher level competition with a premier team. As the most talented player on that CC team, other athletes (not necessarily soccer players) were drawn to the team as the team experienced success climbing from C2 and earning the ability to move to C1 the last season the player played with the team. With the player gone the team was not competitive at the C1 and relegated to C2. After getting beat up the previous year some players left for other clubs and some just gave up soccer from the bad experience. Ultimately the team disintegrated in two short seasons. I think this scenario is part of what the CC's fear.
I can understand both sides here and ultimately feel that there is a way to come up with a happy medium. Under the old rules, it appeared there wasn't a level playing field with potential for abuse and the new rule feels to restrictive. I don't have the answer but would love to see some leadership in this regard and would make a plea to the powers that be to establish a group to discuss the issue with parties from both sides to come up with a better solution.
(I'm naive even making this suggestion as opposing Middle East factions may have leadership more reasonable than those referred to above.)
Call me naive.....at least we don't get decapitated for our differing opinions.
I am not sure I understand your moderate position.....are you suggesting the player that left is obligated to the team he left behind and therefore should have stayed so that the team and community would have a chance to maintain their rating?
I think the player has a right to go to whatever team that will allow him to develope to his/her maximum potential. What happens to the vacuum created after his absense should not be his concern.
I mean the only thing the player has control over is his play.....I would also suggest that his departure gives someone else the opportunity to step up or for a coach to develope players and strategies for dealing with the absense.
If the sole reason for a team attaining C1 status is the play of one particular individual....that is a shaky foundation.
Relegation is the process by which teams achieve/reach the correct competive level.
Interesting comment 'Call me.." but, since when does one talented player make a difference in a TEAM? As a (aknowedgedly biased) parent I have a talented player who left a community club after a DOC told them at age 11 it was their responsibility to make training and development more challenging for themselves. The CC certainly couldn't provide it and still doesn't. Our player has found in Bangu a club that provides them with the challenges and developement and opportunities that simply aren't availible at a community club level. Bangu has never said that they wanted to provide a soccer experience for ALL players in MN, simply put, they are filling the need of those who want more out of their soccer playing time than most CC's can provide. If one or two players leave a CC to fill their needs then perhaps the CC needs to look at their program and see if it is CC that needs changing or for them to simply aknowledge tht some other program can do it better.
The player in question was my child and IMO did the right thing in order to continue to develop as a player. You are correct a player has the right to and should move to whatever situation works best for them. I guess I was just trying to relay the ripple effect that occurred from our experience. The point I was trying to make was how it caused other players to leave the club or game and not the relegation factor (both of which may have happened irregardless). I think that is where some of the trepidation of CC is coming from, losing players of all levels. Success breeds success. Kids want to and are more likely to be involved in successful programs.
I don't believe that the CC's are trying to bring down the level of soccer just like I don't think the Elite clubs just steal all the good players for their own selfish reasons. I do believe both parties ultimately are on the same side and want kids playing and enjoying the game of soccer. If all parties can be reasonable, there has got to be a better solution than what we have currently.
At the C2 level one very talented player does make the difference between wins and losses. Again my point was more towards the kids that ultimately left the team and club, not the level of play. I'm not such a biased parent that I won't admit that the result may have happened irregardless, although members of the local CC would disagree.
There is room here for discussion and a better solution, isn't there?
Call me naive....yes I agree that there should be room for discussion and a better solution....Do I see it happening?....not anytime soon.
Until the large dominant CC's drop the mentality that the kids belong to them and can acknowledge that they(CC's) may not be the venue of choice for the gifted and talented it will not happen.
Clubs don't steal players.
Players vote with their feet when they can't get what they're looking for in their current team/club.
Nobody holds a gun to anyones head forcing them to play soccer.
Parents and players choose what they feel is the best situation.
If clubs don't want their "property" to leave then they need to fix whats broken in their club.
It's a free country folks. Players are free to leave when they want. Slavery in the USA ended with the Civil War.
I guess I am naive, I thought a rational discussion could take place on the issue, now anon 1:21 is talking about slavery. There may be selfish reasons both parties want players but I don't think either of them view players as slaves or property.
There seem to be many various reasons why the different groups are always trying to put down what more successful groups are doing. As with anything in life do you suppose that they ever stop to think how it affects the kids? Because if people out there think that players don’t hear their parents/coaches/club authorities bashing the clubs with higher level teams and then repeat and ostrasize those players at school and in social situations they’ve got another think coming. What do you presume that does to a kid who only wants to play more competitve soccer? It seems to me as a State program MYSA should be interested in providing for all levels of play and not just a few groups that can’t provide for their players. Maybe it should be split up so that when there is voting there are 2 distinctly different versions of how votes are distributed…Competitive By laws and Rec Bylaws. That way clubs who are heavy in Rec programs can focus on their needs and clubs which are heavy in Competitive programs can have their needs addressed. Because if youtake the numbers of Rec kids out of the equation for how votes are given to each club it more or less evens the field.
Bangumom, I would wish the lines could be distinctively drawn.
There are benefits within MYSA structure that Bangu, Wings, and other “elite” players and MN Thunder benefits from due to the economies of scale (insurance, risk management, national ODP selections, coaching licenses, etc).
MN Thunder: If there are 80K members in MYSA, each player receives a ticket to MN Thunder game, that’s at least $80K revenue to our MN Thunder. I don’t know the exact number but can’t be too far off. Can only the elite clubs provide that kind of support to our only professional club? MN Thunder also recruiting from elite clubs and yet the Thunder’s relationship with CC is so strong that their coaching staff knows there are benefiting from the CC through soccer camps.
Insurance cost: Do away with the CC clubs and operate on your own, and your will be paying hefty insurance premiums and we want ALL our kids to be in a safe environment.
Risk Management: Let’s not forget the background checks that is conducted for ALL players and MYSA volunteers. Without CC support, we will have to hire outside services and the cost be be out the window.
ODP Selections: Look at the kids selected to regional and national teams. They are supported through the fees of CC players as well. These kids most of whom are playing for elite clubs.
Coaching education: What a wonderful service for all coaches involved in the sport.
So, while the idea of a splitting sounds palatable, we have to think of the eventual cost to ALL soccer players. Trust me MYSA is not just a group of bureaucrats stifling the progress of elite clubs. There is a lot of stuff going on and we cannot just ignore them. MYSA is for ALL kids.
Actually the more I thought about the idea the more it actually makes sense as to splitting how votes are awarded. By doing this and having 2 sets of voting bylaws you actually would be able to focus on the direct needs of either program. I know for a fact that there are 3 or 4 clubs in the Metro area that have voting blocks of ten votes but competitive programs are only maybe a third of their oversight. Administering a set of Rec bylaws for MYSA would be relatively simple since MYSA leaves the bulk of running these programs to the CC's. None of the other programs mysa2020 cited would be effected or changed because you would still have the player base to provide for them all. The reasons for separating them would be sound....if you look at any industry that has 2 different functions, Airlines for example (passenger vs cargo),you would notice that they have different sets of standards or laws but are still goverened by the same agencies.
I think you on to something. Obviously, the ability to have different roster and player restriction rules would allow the elite players, teams and clubs more flexibility. It would also allow the CC clubs, who have a difficult time dealing with this level of player, to consolidate their elite programs with 3 or 4 other CCs. Or they could work with one of the existing clubs already succeeding in this area.
To MYSA2020, I agree with you that MYSA does many, many good and positive services. And I think it has been only a handful of MYSA execs who have and still do stifle elite club development and directly support the CC 'their stealing out players' montra. I believe they will continue to struggle balancing CC and elite club interests (nature of the beast). I think if US Club could get a league going in MN, the elite clubs would be able to get the flexibility they are looking for to manage multiple teams at the same age and build a 'player pool' concept to allow everyone to training and compete together. A few MN clubs are already rostering US Club teams, comprised of players from a number of USYSA premier teams and age groups, for taking teams to elite tournaments. I don't know if any of the existing US Club MN teams are actually playing in a regular US Club league.
US Club offers many of the same services around insurance, risk management, and league formation and scheudling. Their Coaching Development program is growing and uses many of the same people and resource as USYSA. Their ODP program is relatively new (2 years old) and has already placed players on the national teams.
i have no specific beef with mysa the organization, but have to disagree with mysa2020 greatly when he/she writes:
"There are benefits within MYSA structure that Bangu, Wings, and other “elite” players and MN Thunder benefits from due to the economies of scale (insurance, risk management, national ODP selections, coaching licenses, etc)."
Insurance is available through many other organizations, including those mentioned above.
Risk management - are you kidding? What exactly do you think MYSA really does re: risk management? This is a club problem, always has and always will be, and there is little or nothing that mysa does, or can do, about this.
national odp selections - not really a concern for players at that level - they will be found anyway, through whatever channels necessary. do you know about the CA team a year or so ago that did so well as a team, but had NO YNT placements? Arena saw them play, and directed the staff to check them out. Voila, half a dozen made the nat pools at their ages - NOT through their state association process.
Coaching licensure is available to any with the inclination, $$$, time, and ability. Licenses are not USYS, they are USSF, and thus are not in any way limited to those with USYS affiliation.
you wanna know what MYSA has that the best clubs and teams really want - access to Regionals and Nationals. Other than that, the organization of MYSA is almost useless to the very top teams, and has a history of doing its best to throw up roadblocks to those teams.
dont get me wrong, MYSA has an important role to play in most youth soccer in the state, and i am thankful that they do so. unfortunately, the affiliate members, loaded with parent volunteers, are busying themselves trying to find ways to make rules that allow them to compete with the top teams, when they should be spending their time planning and administering their programs. we have office staff trying to bolster support so they can keep their jobs, and elected officials spending their time and efforts protecting their positions - when they are both not wasting their time and our money on legal actions
we may be seeing the beginning of the end of mysas monopoly on competitive youth soccer leagues in this state. many teams have already chosen a different path for part of their program, and i can imagine more coming
Tomass, why don't you run for MYSA president? (I am not being facetious!) You seem to be a person of sound judgment, reason and have the gift of persuasion. I can also tell that you have the spunk needed to make real change. We could pass the hat and have a temped pint delivered to you at every MYSA event!
I would like to see us come to some agreement about the future of MYSA but every year when there is an opening for office, I hardly see a many people wanting the job.
There was an opening for a boy’s district directors and there were not many of our great thinkers step up for the job. It took RK the work of a genius to finagle another lady to become the west boys director. I was always told that the West is the “elite” district and for the last few years, they cannot find anyone to step up the plate. You all would agree it is easy to sit back and complain but when it is time to volunteer, we step back. These MYSA jobs are thankless and the West district is even worse.
We are all full of complaints and great ideas especially after a pint at the favorite watering hole.
We hear nothing but complaints from soccer “leaders” and no action. When a kind hearted person with no kids in the program decides to assist, we step on them, berate them like they can’t do anything and even sue them. Listen boys, I agree we need to see some changes but they way we speak about MYSA is like they are causing us problems. Maybe we are the problem? The last I checked Bob P and several of the MYSA leadership don’t have kids in the MYSA system. Maybe we should not have voted them to the office because they may be not interested in seeing ALL plays excel.
I want to see tomass run for the Pres of MYSA and NFC run for VP. I want to see the powers at Wings and Bangu run for office. We also had an opening for Treasurer and Secretary. These incumbents ran unopposed. The people involved in MYSA at all levels are sacrificing their time are not compensated enough for the grief they get from some of the clubs – both elite and CC. Why is that the case?
We can have this debate go on for ever as long as no one from the elite clubs is stepping up and taking the lead. Sit back, complain, and order another pint.
Thanks to all the people in Minnetonka office – you have a lot of support – you may not be the best but, you try.
I don't know about any of the others but I can honestly say "been there, done that". I left volunteering with this program and a community club when it became apparent the concerns were definately not about what was best for the player.
anon 2:08 - it cracks me up when i read or hear someone make the comments like yours. well, i know that i am likely unelectable to mysa, although i have held just about every position in a club that one can hold, and worked on a number of committees. right now i work full time, have a family, and work with 4 different teams. i don't have the time nor the inclination to run for an administrative role in any state assoc.
i agree, many times those administrative positions are thankless jobs. anyone who goes into one of them not understanding that is naive. anyone entering one of those positions expecting platitudes i believe is so dumb that they should not be in any administrative positions, maybe not even allowed to cross the street by themselves!
from your stated position, you would suggest that i have no right to complain about anything, because i am unwilling to be a direct participant in the great mysa beauracracy, right? well, i would suggest to you that just because someone has chosen to volunteer for a job, even a difficult job, that it does not exempt them from just criticism. volunteering earns neither ineptitude, favortism, nor shady dealings a free pass.
MYSA has the same issues as any public service position...state senate, US house of reps, school board, park board, MYSA...They get involved with the best intentions, but when it comes to getting anything done, status quo will always do.
The real problem is with the few insecure a**holes at the club level who must push their personal priorities and use MYSA to payback the anonymous who disagree. (In politics, we call these people lobbyist.)
For the most part, the MYSA is smart, genuine, dedicated, hard working, and doing the best they can.
Once the community club napoleons can't control team formation, rosters, leagues, etc. (aka US Club Soccer comes to town), the short, angry, controlling morons will wither away.
I hope those of you who feel compelled to bash MYSA and its volunteers and look at US Club as your salvation recognize that when that happens, someone is gonna have to do the work.
There is no shortage of people who would prefer to write a check and let the handful of long-time volunteers continue to suffer. I told out membership at an annual meeting years and years ago that we were either going to need volunteers to run our in-house program, drop the in-house program completely (or scale it wayyyyy back) or we were going to have to essentially double the in-house fee to cover the added expense of hiring someone to do the work that nobody wanted to volunteer to do.
Everyone (and I mean everyone) voted to raise the fee.
Anon755, there will ALWAYS be issues no matter who, which organization, etc. I visited with a business colleague who has a kid on a USCS team in Iowa. Since the structure is very loose in USCS (by design), they are at war with the Chicago teams who absolutely refuse to travel to Iowa to play ANY matches. If you want to play Chicago teams...you go there or you do not play them. And Iowa teams are not the only ones having to deal with the Chicago problem.
Oh, and Anon 643...what makes you think that you are unelectable to MYSA even though you have held club positions? Do you really think many of those folks on the current MYSA board would (or could) get elected to their local club board today? I think not.
You are correct about the requirements for volunteers to run the show for USCS. And as it gets bigger, more politics will wiggle into how the organization is run.
Once USCS is established in MN, the difference will be that their will be 2 options for leagues, state cups, national tournaments, etc. Both will be moderated and kept in check by competition and give everyone a choice.
BTW,the same "won't drive west" mentality exists in USYSA (MYSA) Midwest Regional League. They don't want to come out this way to play.
we currently have no competition for league play, and the product/service suffers.
As soon as real competition moves in, it is inevitable that MYSA will improve, just as USYS has more rapidly improved in its services and attitudes toward the bill paying clubs and players since the advent of USCS
Try playing up an age group if you are looking for better in-state competition. The Bangu Stars did this and they are now Nationally ranked and the Woodbury U15 Girls have developed into a great team by playing up.
of course, anon 922, that is a great idea.......
....... except for the fact that mysa does not want or allow teams to play up!
guess what? in other states, where the leagues are run by outside entities and only sanctioned by the state associations, teams play up all the time - to find the right level of competition for them.
btw, the comment about league competition is not about competition for teams - it is about having different leagues that would compete with each other for teams. i believe that would force the hand of mysa and many ccs to change
Competition is always a good thing.
As for league structure, allowing play up teams is one way MYSA could help address the development needs of the more select clubs while also helping many CCs. For the more select clubs, this ability to have teams compete at older age levels would allow players who have been attracted to the select club's development option to be more challenged in league game environments. This challenge helps kids stay passionate about the game, helps coaches develop training sessions that address individual and team weaknesses highlighted by tougher games, and helps keep player and parent egos in check… a little bit.
For the game as a whole, talented teams playing up also helps minimize the chances that one team is going to leave the field with a negative soccer experience after a blow out. How is a team of kids who 1) are all from one community, 2) may or may not be in touch with a ball consistently throughout the year, and 3) many times have a coach in place with limited experience/knowledge, expected to be at the same level as a team made up of, in general, 1) athletic and dedicated kids from multiple geographic regions, 2) who are in structured year-round training, environment, and 3) generally work with an experienced coach/trainer throughout the year? This is not a shot at CCs, nor a boast that Bangu is the next best thing to sliced bread… just simple fact.
Now, the process by which a team is allowed to play up is a whole other issue. The easiest procedure would be to have the State DOC make the call. However, I don’t think Ian has the time to assess all the teams who might want pursue this course of action. Another possibility is for MYSA, through Ian and JC, to “certify” select people in the state who would make the call for play up teams. Another idea would be to have the fall league district winners, starting at U11, have the option to play up beginning the following summer, or have summer district winners have the option. Don’t know if all this would be feasible, but I think it would be good for the game as a whole in MN.
Now that Minnesota is producing nationally ranked teams I think we need to give the MYSA some credit. These teams were developed using the same MYSA rules that many bloggers are complaining about. It seems many people are trying hard to fix something that is not entirely broken.
Also US Club Soccer is not without its problems. Last years Super Y League was a big disappointment. The grass may not be greener on the other side....
here is my new proposal for new league structure:
tomass: president
maboud : vp of leagues
bangumom: exec dir
nfc: vp of player development
naive: parent laision
mn futbol : treasurer
forget Ian, JC, Bob P, and all the other at Minnetonka office.
when do you want to get together for a pint and let's get this going?
All for the pint, but I have to go with Tomass on the "I'm no politician" thing. I have no time for stupidity and see no reason why so many groups through common sense out the window when they try to make up rule.
All for the pint, but I have to go with Tomass on the "I'm no politician" thing. I have no time for stupidity and see no reason why so many groups through common sense out the window when they try to make up rule.
retired striker,
I have to disagree.
A few clubs in Minnesota have worked hard to improve the level of play in this state despite the rules implemented over the past 3-4 intended to restrict player movement.
These rules have made it more difficult for clubs/teams to put our state's best players together and has actually slowed Minnesota's rate of progress against other Region 2 states.
We still have folks creating rules they believe will allow their team to be competitive with the neighboring suburb rather than thinking about overall player development and improving the overall level of play in our state.
The staff at MYSA offices realize this but are helpless in the face of restrictive rules and amendments targeting our clubs developing the strongest programs.
I'm hoping that one of these days more mature and progressive minds will see the light and realize soccer extends beyond their little corner of the world.
mysa has been witness to this rise in the top level players and teams, not really a positive contributor in any way
I disagree with Anon 12:24, if we didn't have some form of oversight in place Soccer in this state would be in total chaos. Do I agree with everything that has gone on in the last few years....no. But that is my perogative (goes with the free country thing), are there things that need to be changed? Most definately. MYSA and it's member clubs have got to get back to providing governorship for ALL levls of play. It should be trying to address how it CAN HELP clubs with teams of players who want to play at the highest level possible, regardless of how those players got to whatever club. Soccer in MN is evolving here and faster than ever. Again, any business or industry that does not adapt positively and apace with changes in its enviroment with find itself with nothing.
tomass and bangumom, can you tell me how fast you expect things to move in your state. For us in neighboring region 2 states, we see MN teams program making progress in many areas especially your boys teams. It seems, you guys are always down on your local state office. OK, let's see in 2006, you had a boys team advance in regionals and lost to an excellent IL team. If you were in our state, that's progress. You also had two boys teams advance to MRL premier division. That's progress. You had I guess over fifteen boys selected to the regional ODP team. Move to land of MI or MO and see how bad it is. See in KY, we could use help from MN.
Maybe you in MN need to rethink how you want to make change and instead of telling everyone outside MN how terrible you are and yet we see MN as being progressive soccer state than other Region 2 states in developing youth soccer.
It depends on if you guys see it as half full or you see it as half empty.
Don't know that I have ever directed any comments to anyone outside of this state. If you read a blog that has to do with soccer in MN then I suppose youwould read about MN soccer issues. Don't bring your issues up, we have enough with our own. I understand about Kentucky because I resided there once upon a time. However, I am not living there now and would not presume to tell anyone how your system should be run or by what stanards.
Javanon - I appreciate your thoughts. It was nice to here from someone's perspective outside the state even though others may find your optimism to be annoying.
Optimism among a group of "poor me's" is always welcome. Thanks for the note.
I agree with Bangumom. While MN has made some progress at regionals and out of state tournaments, it has been due, primarily to Bangu, Wings and St. Croix.
Parents and coaches, outside of MYSA, worked the system to build a few teams that could compete at this level. I think Bangumom's point is that, for the most part, MYSA rules and restrictions seem to focus on countering efforts to build elite teams.
Bangu has had the most success because it doesn't have to fight the community club internal battles ("I'm a board member and my kids belongs on the top team.")
If Wings were able to break their elite program completely out of the politics of their own community club, their regional success would equal Bangu's within 2 years. I think part of the reason Bellis resigned was that he was tired of fighting the CC battles.
Better yet, if Bangu Boys and Wings Boys were to join forces outside of a CC construct it would create consistenlty better teams at regionals. If you took the top 7 kids from each Bangu and Wings boys teams, put them on the same team, throw 4 in from other clubs (who would probably come to the team), train them for 2 year, 1/2 of the MN boys teams would get out of their groups at regionals, 1 or 2 would win regionals.
C'mon Bangumom, you don't have to be so rude to Javanon. This blog is open to anyone isn't it? Having played various Kentucky teams as well as many other region II teams (my son that is), I personally find it interesting to hear how Minnesota is perceived by our competition. Javanon actually had many positive things to say about MN soccer and even if Javanon or others had negative comments, I still think they're worth listening to---sometimes opinions outside of our "bubble" can be enlightening.
Javanon's U19 boys team won the national championship in the summer of 2006. I think they also won it in 2003. They showed a club, in a state with a small population, can find a way to get it done.
http://usyouthsoccer.org/index.php?s=&url_channel_id=40&url_article_id=2277&url_subchannel_id=&change_well_id=2
Still interested in exactly what will happen with the implementation of this rule. Using the Stars as a perfect example what will transpire??? Will they have to come back to MYSA league play in order to play Midwest league with the same roster? Does this mean they will push out the players on the 16 Bangu Select Premier team or the older 17 Bangu premier team who took their league spot? I'm really confused about this and trying to figure out the real nitty gritty implications for the players on these teams. Thanks to anyone who can offer the facts or at least what the possible scenerios might be.
The new rules will depend on some decisions that need to be made by the Youth Council. Currently there is no hard and fast "Effective Date" rule/policy written into MYSA Bylaws. It has typically, unless safety related, been enforced the following start of the next soccer year (1 Aug.). However, since MYSA does not have an "Effective Date" policy the question is do they then have to go by USYS, which states an amendment/rule becomeseffective the following Sept. 1st after it is passed. Hard to say what they will decide.
Anyone care to place a wager ;)
I bet law suite.
Really? Law Suit? By whom? Will MYSA really be that petty and force Bangu to push out a Premier team who has rightfully earned a Premier spot? Call me naive (also) but I am hoping that MYSA truly does want to be responsible and act with integrity.
In the event that MYSA makes the rule retroactive, Bangu will be faced with a group of kids that came to form a new team, gave up their old spots, and now have nowhere to play. The new team was formed under during the period of a rule that allowed it, then MYSA forces the team to be disolved...I think their might be a few pissed off parents and bangu memebers will to go at it in court. Of course, I can't speak for any of them.
Stars can still play MWRL, don't get your undies in a bunch.
The U16 Select team will be fine.
The U17 team will be fine.
The only teams it would affect are the U14 premier teams formed THIS YEAR (who didn't play U13 and qualifify themselves) to take the spots of the Bangu U14 playing MWRL. And that is only if the rule takes affect this year.
I still think it is a reasonable rule. The sky is not falling.
First you all say how crappy the Premier league is, then you all lament that you can't play in it.
Thanks for anon who read the tone of the bangumom blog. If you develop elite teams in MN, who will you play against. My point was that maybe MN system is not as bad as you guys make it sound. I read blogs about other states so we all can improve the sport in the US but it seems a few people in MN have all the answers.
We all are Reg 2 members and hope that you can find answers to your problems soon other states will follow. MN nice - hmmm. Good Luck.
Hmmm...I don't think it would be retroactive.Logically and ethically the rule should take effect the summer of 2008. In essence the team that formed from the open spot will have moved on to 18's and should be ok as far as college recruiting goes. Where it gets sticky for me is that the Stars will still have a season at 17 to play as will the Select who earned their own spot. The question is whether the Stars will be forced to come back as a new C3 team, which is ridiculous, or bump out the Select to take the Premier spot and leave this team scrambling. Funny thing is when questioned after the first team practice on Sunday the Bangu Select parents knew nothing about the rule change or the possible implications.
Sorry lou holtz....I posted while you posted! Are your sources accurate? The Select team is bunch of very nice families who for the most part are pretty laid back.
Not picking a fight with anyone, never said the system we have was totally broken......will not however sit still for complacency. If you are not trying to move forward, get to the side of the road. I don't presume to tell or opine about any other states program, not my business, don't live there, sure they have their own issues. As for our state office, I have nothing but respect for what the people who work there on a DAILY basis go through. MYSA should ONLY be about providing the best possible soccer experience for all levels of play, regardless if it is TOPS, Classic, Rec or Elite.
Parents have heard about this and there is already a buzz about a class action lawsuit against MYSA and Bangu if the team isn't allowed to play in the premier league.
This could get very ugly not to mention expensive for all parties involved.
A few random thoughts...
If there was a lawsuit I imagine any action would be delayed (most likely intentionally via motions) beyond this season virtually rendering the rule unenforcible for the upcoming summer season until said lawsuit saw resolution.
What damages would the teams/players or parents involved be seeking?
If a court or judge did find damages for the teams and/or parents I can't imagine Bangu would have any liability as their club offered positions on teams which had earned status under the existing rules as I understand the situation.
Then any or all liability would fall on the MYSA.
I would think the last thing that organization needs at this time is another messy and drawn out lawsuit.
Hopefully Hoagland, Neil, Abboud and the Bangu gang can keep the parents from doing anything rash.
The only ones who would benefit from this would be the law firms.
Absolutely unreal. What's next folks? Judge Judy?
The membership of MYSA (rightly or wrongly) voted this in. Not the Youth Council or District Operating Committee. Does this mean that Bangu is going to sue each and every MYSA affiliated club that voted for this?
Its this kind of rabid, frothing at the mouth reaction that helps Bangu earn its reputation with the Minnesota soccer community. To add insult to injury, the blogger from Javanon was actually trying to pay us a collective compliment, and he gets flamed by a bangu blogger.
chuck barris, you are so right. We don't even know a compliment when one is given that how ungrateful we have become.
It is sad to read 'bout the great accomplishments of Bangu program. I recall we had teams in Maplebrook, Kellix, Newcastle, and several other clubs who have given kids a chance to succeed and learning from sport of soccer at a high level. People like Greg Thompson never owned a club in MN but provided one of the best soccer camps. Oh, lest not forget the successes we have had with bringing in clubs from Wisconsin(Eau Claire/Fargo). I am sure there are no elite players being developed by these clubs. This year we had a HS team from Fergus Falls, MN and they competed very well. Tell me they are not being developed at a high level. I think we know about the Rochester club and how they have done well with their program.
I hate for someone to tell me that Dave at Kellix has not developed more kids in MN than Bangu. What about Christian Akale and Oryx program? How do we get the nerve to say that Bangu or Wings have the formula that would work for MN elite program? It is the saddest thing and its a shame that we cannot lift our heads from our egos to give credit to many people in our own state.
Javonon blogger was really talking about our state and we took it personal.
Anon 4:41,
The difference here is they did play by the rules.
Then the rules were changed after teams were formed under the rules in place at that time.
There's quite a difference.
chuck barris,
You need to read more closely. It sounds as if Bangu will be sued along with MYSA.
If this blogger is correct it will be families suing the club and the state organization.
5:23...YOU reread it and you tell me where the parents are going to sue Bangu. I fail to see it. What I do see is a pat on the head to Bangu essentially saying, "oh, that's OK...you were only following the existing rules. I'll just go sue the big, bad MYSA."
That's garbage. However, if the parents are going to sue Bangu *and* MYSA, MYSA will be dropped out of that one in a minute.
The proposed rules were due in early July and were circulated shortly thereafter. The proposal to close that loophole was "out there" well in advance of the Bangu August tryouts. Several bad choices were made; don't ask my club to pay for it when they do not have a horse in this race.
Comment like the following are not constructive, make crazy assumptions, and in my opinion are just trying to pick a fight. I will continue to delete them, regardless of who they are from and who they are directed toward.
Please be constructive. Thank you.
From Anon 4:51
"I think the Bangu organization is so full of lawyers and soccer kings and above all the best of everything. Now these parents are talking class action lawsuit - wow. Give me a break. Get real people."
PS...I was looking at 225 and not the 140 posting. I'll take my Humble Pie a la mode.
It does reinforce the notion that there aren't going to be any winners in this deal. Suing anyone and everyone is only going to poison things further. I feel for the kids stuck in this because it is not their fault.
MRL/USCS is still an option and there are plenty of intelligent folks at Bangu who will figure out a solution. Sending the lawyers in isn't a solution.
If a court ruling would throw away a recenlty passed rule, it would/could set a precidence for MYSA. They may then pay more attention to the intent and impact of a silly rule change.
How many times has MYSA updated and changed roster, religation, etc. rules in the past year, or even had emergency rule changes to emergency rule changes. They don't fully assess the impact or take the time to update a rule and other rules that it may impact. They shoot first and ask questions later...
chuck barris,
You're going to have to eat another serving of humble pie.
The rule proposals were not distributed to the membership until September 15th.
By that time Bangu and most other clubs had held premier level tryouts and assigned players to teams.
Slow down, relax and get your facts straight before assailing anyone.
I don't believe anyone from the Bangu board is threatening lawsuits. If I'm reading all the posts correctly they are being threatened along with MYSA.
What has been related is the lawsuits potentially will come from the parents/players of the teams the new MYSA rules won't allow to play.
Technically they wouldn't be a part of the Bangu club because these would be players without a team.
It is all about the kids stuck in this situation because of actions taken by MYSA after teams were formed.
This isn't going to harm Bangu as these aren't their top teams. These players would be on the 2nd or 3rd teams at the respective age groups.
I'll eat some, but the info was out there.
The whole episode is lousy all the way around. Bringing the lawyers in will only make matters worse.
If it hasn't happened yet, maybe the parties should try a unique approach: negotiate. How's this: make the new rule effective in the '08 season (starting August 1, 2007).
CB 9:37
While I don't agree with this rule I do agree that the only way to implement it is for the 08 season. Bangu won't be happy but it will give the formed teams the chance to retain the playing level achieved under the rules at the time of their tryouts and subsequent team assignment.
(I have great confidence they will succeed given the training program they will be working under)
A few Community Clubs will be unhappy because their ability to gloat at sticking it to Banqu will be a short one.
It therefore becomes an no win, no win situation ;)
it is quite simply dishonest and unethical for a state org to change its rules part way through the year, after teams have been selected and plans made. if my kid were involved in one of these teams, i would be quite upset. with the money, time and effort involved for these kids, coaches and parents, i can understand why a parent would consider legal action against the state org. hope it does not happen, but i understand why it may be considered
what they heck, though, any affected teams can just play c3 and make a good run at things there, right?
Why does everyone assume the rule is in effect for 2007? Why don't you all wait til you know for sure before you get all worked up?
I can see why Bangu gets the bad rap. The hyperdefensiveness is quite a spectacle.
I swear people just stir up this board, sit back, and laugh.
After finally reading the actual rule change I feel better. Maybe I'm not understanding it but from what I read the only problem is if you want to be in MWL AND MYSA league during the same playing season. Then you have to have the same roster so clubs don't form new teams. Is that right? Doesn't say anything about forcing teams out that are already in place. The only possible conflict down the road would be if the Stars would want to come back to MYSA league (but why would they???). I ASSUME this is to keep the younger teams in check ???
MYSA has passed rules in the past and put them into practice for the current season. Good example are the premier relegation rules that were past at the last AGM (11/2005), put into practice, for the existing season 2005-2006 and then updated in Feb/March 2006 and used in the 2006 relegation procedures.
Lou Holz - you have made yourself out as a Wings bigot. You like to take shots at Bangu in almost every post. This post is specifically about the rule that was recently passed...why wouldn't Bangu people be concerned...why wouldn't someone write about their concerns, in a blog post that is specifically about the topic? The only "bad rap" that Bangu gets is from jealous, insecure knuckleheads. If anyone is just trying to "stir" things up it’s you with your ridiculous spitting posts.
As the rule stood before the changes were passed, any club that had a team that made premier status, at whatever level 14-18, the status of that team remained with the club. If that premier team was invited to play in the MWRL then the team could and also could still play in MYSA premier league season games. The club could also, if the team only wanted to play MWRL, still field a MYSA premier team with a different roster than that of the MWRLteam, as the club retains ownership of the premier slot. The new amendments require a club to forfeit the premier slot if the rostered team in question decides to play only MWRL. If they decide to do both then the team's roster for each league must match exactly.
This could potentially affect 2 current age groups, but I don't see MYSA enforcing it until after Aug 1st. But who know?
bangumom, all rules passed at the AGM take effect the soccer year else clubs have no business spending time this year approving or disapproving rules. this was one of many rules that was approved and now we are asking that all rules approved this year don't apply till next year. If the proposing member wanted to state the effective date of the rule, they would have stated so. the rule for in place effective 2007 and if Bangu admin wants to propose an amendment to the new rule, they can do so at the Oct 2007 AGM and if it passes, it will take effect in 2008.
My only point on effective dates was that MYSA does NOT have one anywhere in their Bylaws..so the question stands....do we then go by their parent organizations'By Laws which states all rule changes become effective the next 1st of September after the change is approved?
Anons at ten bells-
I have no allegiances to any club, but since I don't jump on your side of the fence I must be a Wings "bigot". Classy. I just call them how I see them.
If Wings, EP, Surf, Texans, Magic, Vardar, Lake Wobegon SC supporters were complaining about the same situation I would have the same opinion. Don't get bent out of shape until you know what the facts. Bangumom- I believe you outlined the scenario precisely. We are just waiting on a decision on timing of enforcement.
Anons -Your personal attacks only strengthen my statement of your hyperdefensiveness.
Pour yourselves a tall one and calm down.
Tomass, nice to have you back. Good thoughts as usual. MYSA should provide details about the specifics of implementing the new rule.
Holz, the "bad rap" comment was probably out of line. If you have a specific point or comment to make about a club or person then do so.
Anon 10:20, shame, shame...if you have something to say, be an adult and leave the venom out. I'm guessing mnfutbol will whack your comment soon.
Tomass,
The lawsuit threat isn't coming from Bangu. The alleged threat is coming from parents of players whose new premier teams won't be allowed under the new rules.
Most of these players and parents are new to the Bangu club and if the rule takes effect for summer 2007 these players won't have a team or be part of Bangu.
The rumor is that Bangu will be sued along with MYSA.
Which teams are affected by this rule change if it is implemented this year?
MYSA2020, are you saying that the Bangu teams affected would be allowed for the 2007 spring/summer season, but then one would be dumped for the following year? Or that this rule would be applied for teams on a go forward basis and the two Bangu teams would be allow because they were formed under the previous set of rules/restrictions?
Does this affect the U14 and U16 levels at Bangu?
Sooooo...can anyone answer Still curious yellow?????
My answer, depending on the rules implementation, would be absolutely maybe!
It shouldn't affect the i6's, but depending on the effective date of the new rule it could affect the 14's.
So what's happened with the law suit? Heard it was over.
Ruled in favor of MYSA, Singer and Ericson. Damages awarded to MYSA in the amount of $550,000.
Be vewwy, vewwy careful what you say or blog....
This may be just the boost US Club Soccer needs...
tomass,
can you provide background on this now that it is over? Some of us have no idea what you are talking about.
tomass
enough mysa bashing for this. there's more then one side to every story. the mysa people simply have/are not talking on advise from their legal eagles.
the ruling's in, mysa won. "get over it". obviously you don't know all the facts that you claim.
what court heard the case, i.e., Anoka county? Hennepin county?
anon, this really goes back to 2002 when one ERU coach was suspended twice. His failure to abide by his suspension led to all of the problems since then. It led to the ERU suspension, the lawsuits and the pain and suffering on both sides. If he had honored his suspension none of this would of happened.
Tomass, In the spring of 2003 the suspended coach was seen running clinics in Elk River. At this time ERU was told continued use of this coach would result in ERU losing their membership privilages basically putting them on probation. There were numerous instances reported to MYSA of him still participating in soccer activities after that. Don't know which one was basis for ERU suspension. Could be the one that got him 2 more years added on to his suspension or a combination of all of them. Was a hearing really needed? MYSA didn't believe so not after having warned them already.
Never mind the fact that a bunch of us got those stupid "blah blah" e-mails that really dug the hole a lot deeper.
The coach in question should have taken his lumps at the time and moved on. He chose not to.
So who paid for MYSA in this case? And what was total cost?
from a letter to club presidents, on the defamation lawsuit. posted on mysa website:
"MYSA’s objectives in filing the lawsuit were to stop the defamatory emails, and to find the people responsible and hold them accountable so that the emails would not continue and/or start up again. I believe we were successful with respect to both objectives for two main reasons: 1) We had the truth on our side; and 2) The knowledge and expertise of our attorneys and their law firm.
We have recouped our legal costs and at no time during this lawsuit did MYSA programs or services suffer as a result of this action. MYSA remains committed to promoting the game of soccer for all youth in Minnesota in a fun, safe environment. In fact, it is precisely because of this commitment that MYSA pursued the lawsuit. MYSA believes it is essential to not only protect the youth, but also the adults, who are involved in soccer in Minnesota."
seems to me most comments related to this on the blogs, are from those biased against the mysa. yes, the mysa's not perfect but neither are these "adult volunteers" the monsters they were made out to be.
MYSA does have a right to defend itself. But, if the purpose was to stop emails, an injunction, not a suite requesting damages, would have been more appropriate.
Does anyone know what the ER incident was about? Why was a coach/official banned from MYSA activities?
to stop the emails was one thing, but it was also to hold those accountable for the character defamation of volunteer's for the mysa. they were accused of all sorts of vile garbage.
the coach was originally suspended for abuse of a player and was witnessed by a number of adults.
Tomass: Shut up. You have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest that you get ALL of the facts straight and not just the facts you think you are in the know about. Let the civil court record speak for itself. Go and get yourself a life, instead of trying to continue to stir up the soccer community with your half truths and innuendos.
Tomass- if that mom was really concerned about the safety of her daughter, why did she wait 2 1/2 months to file for the RO and if she was really concerned about her daughter's team why did she wait until after the soccer season to file the RO?
The suspension of the coach was not for abuse it was for "innappropriate language and taunting". 30 witnesses, including the game officials, assistant coaches and players said it NEVER happened. One of the parents the investigator of the complaint spoke to stated on the record the investigator fabricated her statements the investigator made in her report.
Another 2 years was added 2 months after the mother obtained the restraining order against Hollenbeck for conducting clinics for a NON-MYSA AFFILIATED ORGANIZATION, attended by players from Maplebrook, TRSA, ERU, Monticello, St. Michael and others. One has to question why these clubs were not suspended.
The mother filed the INITIAL TEMPORARY RO in late October after Hollenbeck kept returning to her daughter's practices in October of 2003, and MYSA refused to acknowledge her complaint. She had to resend the complaint to MYSA via certified mail late in October. What everyone has to keep in mind, there were numerous parents who had seen Hollenbeck taking pictures and following this team around, that a pattern of harassment existed starting in July 2003 at the U9/U10 Jamboree and continued through October until the RO was issued. The initial RO was issued for stalking and threatening and was later modified to threatening and ENTIRE team of under 10 girls.
The point is the mom took all the proper procedures through with MYSA, but it became apparent MYSA would do nothing.
The complaint against Hollenbeck was for 3 different rule violations 8.2.2.2, 8.2.2.5, 8.2.2.14. Rob Johnson, the hearing panel chair, stated in the his decision "Complainant alleges violations of MYSA Policies and Rules Manual Section 8.2.2.2."
Even in Ericson's so-called "investigation" he acknowldges the other 2 rule violations.
My question is still, why is it that he only showed up at this one team of girl's practices?
One other thing, the lead defense attorney for this case was hired by an insurance company of one of the defendants. After the Plaintiffs repeatedly refused the attornies request to provide electronic evidence of the alleged emails, an order was granted to allow the scanning of all MYSA computers. An estimate of the cost of this "scanning" was going to be over $100,000, because it had to be done live. Plaintiffs refused to turn over any computers or back up tapes to Defendant's attornies, to help them determine where the emails came from. The insurance company at that point decided the price to defend the suit had become to costly, in light of the estimates that a trial would take 3 weeks. They decided to settle. At that point the other insurance company involved also decided to settle. Both settlements were made without the cooperation of the insured, as is allowed by the insurance contract. All settlement offers made to the insured themselves were rebuked.
This left the mother, who had hired her own attorney, to fend for herself. Her attorney withdrew from representing her at that point, three weeks before trial. She attempted to get another attorney, but all attornies wanted in excess of $60,000 to defend the case, since trial was less than 3 weeks away. THE PLAINTIFFS REFUSED TO SETTLE UNLESS SHE SIGNED AN APOLOGY TO HOLLENBECK. She refused. She got an order from the judge to force the previous attorney to represent her, and in mine and other's opinion, did a terrible job in defending her.
All you who are bashing Tomass, let me ask you this, what would you do if your daughter had been molested?
One other thing, the lead defense attorney for this case was hired by an insurance company of one of the defendants. After the Plaintiffs repeatedly refused the attornies request to provide electronic evidence of the alleged emails, an order was granted to allow the scanning of all MYSA computers. An estimate of the cost of this "scanning" was going to be over $100,000, because it had to be done live. Plaintiffs refused to turn over any computers or back up tapes to Defendant's attornies, to help them determine where the emails came from. The insurance company at that point decided the price to defend the suit had become to costly, in light of the estimates that a trial would take 3 weeks. They decided to settle. At that point the other insurance company involved also decided to settle. Both settlements were made without the cooperation of the insured, as is allowed by the insurance contract. All settlement offers made to the insured themselves were rebuked.
This left the mother, who had hired her own attorney, to fend for herself. Her attorney withdrew from representing her at that point, three weeks before trial. She attempted to get another attorney, but all attornies wanted in excess of $60,000 to defend the case, since trial was less than 3 weeks away. THE PLAINTIFFS REFUSED TO SETTLE UNLESS SHE SIGNED AN APOLOGY TO HOLLENBECK. She refused. She got an order from the judge to force the previous attorney to represent her, and in mine and other's opinion, did a terrible job in defending her.
All you who are bashing Tomass, let me ask you this, what would you do if your daughter had been molested?
One other thing, the lead defense attorney for this case was hired by an insurance company of one of the defendants. After the Plaintiffs repeatedly refused the attornies request to provide electronic evidence of the alleged emails, an order was granted to allow the scanning of all MYSA computers. An estimate of the cost of this "scanning" was going to be over $100,000, because it had to be done live. Plaintiffs refused to turn over any computers or back up tapes to Defendant's attornies, to help them determine where the emails came from. The insurance company at that point decided the price to defend the suit had become to costly, in light of the estimates that a trial would take 3 weeks. They decided to settle. At that point the other insurance company involved also decided to settle. Both settlements were made without the cooperation of the insured, as is allowed by the insurance contract. All settlement offers made to the insured themselves were rebuked.
This left the mother, who had hired her own attorney, to fend for herself. Her attorney withdrew from representing her at that point, three weeks before trial. She attempted to get another attorney, but all attornies wanted in excess of $60,000 to defend the case, since trial was less than 3 weeks away. THE PLAINTIFFS REFUSED TO SETTLE UNLESS SHE SIGNED AN APOLOGY TO HOLLENBECK. She refused. She got an order from the judge to force the previous attorney to represent her, and in mine and other's opinion, did a terrible job in defending her.
All you who are bashing Tomass, let me ask you this, what would you do if your daughter had been molested?
This thing works weird.....
" Tomass: Shut up. You have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest that you get ALL of the facts straight and not just the facts you think you are in the know about. Let the civil court record speak for itself. Go and get yourself a life, instead of trying to continue to stir up the soccer community with your half truths and innuendos. "
I agree let the court record speak for itself. Ericson was issued a judgement against him after being sued for Fraud and Extortion. Hollenbeck was found by a judge to have threatened a group of 8 and 9 year old girls. TRSA hired a private investigator to do surveillance on someone. That speaks volumes. What is half true about this?
anonymous you need to get your facts straight. Ericson's case was overturned on appeal. Hollenbeck was not found by the judge to be a threat to the girls. What the judge found was that he failed to prove that the women who filed the RO didn't feel threatened. Talk to most lawyers and you will find that is about impossible to disprove how somebody feels.
The 2 years added to the coaches suspension were not for any clinics he ran in 2004. They were added for an incident that occurred in the fall of 2004.The 2004 clinics were not an issue because they were not sponsored by ERU unlike the ones he ran in 2003. The flier that went home from school in 2003 stated that the clinics were sponsored by ERU and that is why there was a warning issued to ERU about using the suspended coach.
Look at the other letters of apology issued in the other cases that were settled and you can see that it was more involved than just an apology to Hollenbeck.
the incident that added 2 years on to the coaches suspesion occurred in the fall of 2003, not 2004.
Would some please file a lawsuit against Thomass so he would shutup too!
Anon 10:04. Get your facts straight.
The flier I received in spring of 2003 was for the the coach's academy not for ERU.
The letter adding the 2 year suspension stated "for conducting clinics for ERU". The hearing for the coach was January 2004, 2 months after Hollenbeck was issued the RO. Very convenient.
The incident in September 2003 was complaint against TRSA Board Member Nan Martin for swearing at parents of ERU because she thought an ERU official should have marked a field for her. Last I saw Clubs were responsible for their own fields. Martin admitted she swore at the coaches in front of children and witnesses stated on the record she used several different four letter words. She was heard by another TRSA coach 100 yards away yelling at an ERU official during her meltdown. One witness said her meltdown occured in front of 2 children under 5 years of age. The hearing panel selected by Ericson for her complaint gave her no punishment. Very convenient.
The RO against Hollenbeck stated "frightened petitioner(s) with threatening behavior". It didn't say "frightened petitioner(s) with normal behavior".
Can't get any plainer than that. It had nothing to do with "feelings" it had to do with the fact Hollenbeck was following the team around for 4 months, came back even after he was told to stay away, was hiding in and behind playground equipment where the girls were playing on the equipment, was seen by multiple parents taking pictures of the girls on more than one occasion and several parents saw him over the course of months.
And lest we forget it was issued for the ENTIRE team.
Ericson's appeal was overturned based on domain for the complaint. Extortion is usually dealt with at the Federal Juducial level. Any attorney will tell you that. At no time did the judge say Ericson was not guilty.
Fact remains one judge said he was guilty.
I'm still confounded why a non-profit youth organization would hire a Private Investigator using funds earmarked for children to conduct surveillance on someone? Other than Tomass the issue seems to be avoided here.
Tomass I have not seen the depositions directly, but I have been told in one of the depositions on of the Plaintiffs says the PI was reporting to Ericson and the MYSA attorny, and not TRSA. Can you enlighten?
Silence is golden?
Nope. Just less expensive.
Some would disagree with you Tomass.
I just spent a whole bunch of time reading everyone of these entries. This entire blog is very sad. The reason is simple. As I read these blogs, it became blatantly obvious to me that there are a whole bunch of parents with views and opinions on what is right and wrong. Unfortunately, nobody seems to really consider the kids and what's best for them. Oh, some mention them, but it's only as a tool to justify their opinion. How many of you have really asked the kids who are affected by this new rule change? I asked my child, who is by the way, one of the kids who will get screwed if MYSA does retroactively impose this rule. She was suprisingly clear on her feelings. She doesn't understand why any club would want to hold back a player from going to another club or team. She asked,"why would rules be made to reduce development and reduce opportunities"? She even mentioned that she is currently learning about communism in school right now and this sounds eerily similar. For my input, I just don't get it. Ok, the votes are in and they passed the rule. I think it is a step backwards for the entire state. I'm also really starting to believe some people are making decisions on personal feelings instead of what's best for the kids and the future. I respect MYSA and all the clubs to include Bangu. But why is the rule being imposed on the 2007 season? The MYSA guidelines clearly state that the season starts on August 1 and runs through July 31. Why are they not following their own rules? This is the heart of the problem. Rules changes will come and go but we as a group need to be consistent with how we apply them. Never has a rule been applied retroactively before. Why now? There are approximately 100 or more kids who made decisions back in August to play with different clubs and are now left hanging by this retroactive rule change. Who considered them or their feelings?
Well said Itsaboutthekids, I also have a daughter that will be affected by this retroactive rule change and my daughter is learning that life is not fair. This seems to be "not about the kids". I have sent several emails to MYSA asking for an explaination of why this particular rule change if effective retroactivly and so far I have recieved NO response.
Why??? I checked the USYSA website and found this in their bylaws:
Bylaw 805. EFFECTIVE DATE
"Unless otherwise provided, any amendment to the charter or bylaws of USYSA is effective on that September 1 that occurs immediately after the amendment is adopted."
Any comments?
Sorry about not having a moniker, you can refer to me as "soccerr".
The problem with the new rule amendment is that it was voted on and implemented immediately in November 2006 and made retroactive to the beginning of the MYSA 2006-2007 year in August.
This came after tryouts were held and teams were formed in August 2006.
The 1st notification from MYSA of the new proposed rule amendment was in September 2007, after tryouts and premier team formation.
Who in their right mind would think a rule approved in November would be made retroactive impacting August's newly formed premier teams?
It's obvious there's not much leadership in place as they refuse to do what's right for the players and act like mind numbed bureaucrats.
Don't know if this should go here and I might cut andpaste this into another pertinent category...Was looking at the MYSA website the other day (http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/leagues/premier.cfm), and noticed that except for an older boys Bangu team (U19), all the Bangu boys team have disappeared from the
listing of 2007 premier league teams. What's up with that? Is this because of the disputed rule changes? Anyone have any scoop on this?
Don't know if this should go here and I might cut andpaste this into another pertinent category...Was looking at the MYSA website the other day (http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/leagues/premier.cfm), and noticed that except for an older boys Bangu team (U19), all the Bangu boys team have disappeared from the
listing of 2007 premier league teams. What's up with that? Is this because of the disputed rule changes? Anyone have any scoop on this?
It looks like the 14s, 15s, and 16s will only play in the Midwest Regional League and forgo the MYSA state league. I had heard that the 17s have choosen to be a US Club team only and will play US Club events in the summer and showcase tournaments in the winter.
I can say that the Bungu U17 white girls team will be playing MYSA U18 Premier, the current U18 team gave their premier spot to us. So the U17 Girls white team will play this year in a premier league. Don't know what will happen to this team next year. The main thing is that the girls will be playing in their showcase tournaments which is more important than league play at this age anyway. Thats all I know at this time.
Bangu U17Girls White parent (soccerr)
ooops! I can say that the "Bangu" U17 white girls team...
soccerr
I heard through the grapevine that the PSA U15 Boys actually won a tournament in florida? can somebody comment on this win? They must be doing somethings right for mn teams that traveld this winter.
PSA U15 boys won the Cocoa Expo Cup.
Does anyone know if there is any truth to the rumor that this snowfall was initiated by MYSA as a way of preventing Bangu from holding practice?
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