The Sunday 5/17 MN State Cup U13 Girls semi final game between MTE13GC101 (U12s playing up) and MTA13GC101 ended with a bit of controversy. According to the MTE13GC101 coach's statements in his own blog:
"I told them I was so proud of their efforts, but I wanted them to step up and pass the ball to the U13 GK when it was their turn to shoot. "
This has stirred up many questions about ethical behaviour. Some are speculating that the MTA13GC101, Coach AK, may have known what was going to happen as well. There seems to be more bloggers chiming in with strong concerns about Coach MA's decision. Still a few are defending his actions.
The MTA "club" has tried to distance themselves from the controversy by stating on their web site:
"The MTA Executive Board is aware of an incident at State Cup this past weekend. It was a coach's decision that came into question; an individual decision, and it was not supported by the club. We are looking into it further to deem whether any disciplinary action is needed."
What could be even more disturbing is that Coach MA may have informed the team parents of his plans, during the previous winter. If true, why wasn't anything done?
What's next? What will MYSA do? What will USYSA do? What will MTA do?
1,023 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 1023 Newer› Newest»tomASS said...
1205coward - cry me a river.
You can choose to label the man whatever you would like to. I know the man. He is far from being corrupt ethically. I will stand by my friend and mentor and judge him as a complete person.
We have clarity on where you stand. Find a better therapist.
At least I can tell Wayne to F-himself to his face when we disagree.
you would be probably standing in a puddle of yellow if you were told that you could tell him to your face how you feel.
28/5/09 1:46 PM
what you see means nothing, your 2cents worth is nothing but hot air and no one on this site takes anything you say seriously.
2:55 - please . . . PLEASE . . . one ancient issue at a time! You can't possibly justify any portion of what happened by the 'he did it first' defense. There may be things from the past w/SCV and WH that are and continue to be unfair, but let's deal with them. They are not related, nor is the punishment related, to what's happening in this instance. You're comparing squirrel monkeys and moon rocks.
tomASS said...
There's nothing more to debate regarding the matter.
28/5/09 2:35 PM
Good, then shut up and go away!!
3:12, Im tired of listening to you as well as tom. If you want to banter back and forth with him exchange email somehow and do it that way no one wants to here about from you or him. Its obvious that you have some issues with tom and Wayne and this is the wrong place to have them.
I'm not saying MTA and coaches should not be punished. They absolutely should. But MYSA has ignored their own dirtly laundry. The SCV story would make an even better Star Tribune story...power corrupts!
TomASS loves to stir the pot and is quite good at it. And I seriously read his posts, many tongue in cheek. I am glad he is back.
anon 301 - I most certainly did turn around and tell parents to shut up last year when they were getting on an opposing player or for some other reason they were trying to insert themselves verbally into a game.
your point would be?
many parents are the worse thing for youth soccer?
That we can agree to.
255 - I like squirrel monkeys better than moon rocks since they are about as tall as Wayne and myself....just for the record
Frankly, I find the SCV story to be boring. They won, didn't they? Maybe a slot was given to them for bad reasons, or good reasons, but they still had to back it up on the field. This subterfuge had very little to do with proving it on the field.
If someone has some facts to share regarding the SCV U17 team and MYSA (names, approximate dates, meeting minutes, etc.), I will be happy to start a thread.
Please email me at mnfutbol@yahoo.com
Tick Tock 316 #1. You didn't say please, such manners! - I was away. I thought for good since the posts now are almost the same from when the site first started. Very boring except for a few exceptions.
The environment though with this situation was just to ripe and right too jump back in.
I'm like a case of herpes - I have out bursts from time to time. I will go away, but i'm always there. Don't scratch and don't pick, you will only make matters worse.
I would blame Mrs. Robinson - she had a nice post and I couldn't help myself but to say hello.
3:25 clearly from SCV. Can't see the parallel? The MTA 13s won didn't they? They are a good team aren't they? Your stupid!
The SCV story, if true, is much worse as MYSA officials may have given favortism to their own family member, when the same ruling was unfavorable, for the same set of circumstances with a club wanting to move their premier status was not allowed when Hopkins wanted to move a boys team to Wings a year before. Much worse that a coach deciding to throw a game.
anon 316 #2 - great suggestion- I would have no problem with that. I'll buy the guy the beer so he can say what he wants. I have no problem if mnfutbol shares it with him/her. All he has to do is drop mn an email.
I didn't take my Ritalin so I get off track easy.
I can go back to the cheating scandal if that is what is best.
mn futbol - you would have to go back a few years. The SCV team got special treatment at the start but have earned the right to play where they currently are.
Actually, we'll never know if they would have won . . . probably 50/50. They are an EXCELLENT team, but they didn't earn that win and their coach compromised the integrity of that win. That would be "You're", not "Your stupid". They're called contractions . . . not all that new, but handy if your going to insult someone's intelligence. My point is, in the SCV case, they proved on the field that it wasn't a bad decision (maybe for the wrong reasons, and I agree with you there, but learn from it a move on). There are certainly other examples of field play proving that placement variances granted or not-granted were incorrect/correct - see Bangu14C3s.
Edina vs PL tonight at 5:00
Will someone lay out what the penalties are believed to be for MTA coaches and teams. I wish MYSA would just release to all what they have evidentally told to the teams affected.
Well, just based on the Edina v PL claim, I'd say both U12 and U13 teams from MTE and MTA, respectively, are DQ'd. Haven't heard anything about coaches other than the rumor of 1-2 year ban for each from USYSA Championship series, and formal grievances yet to be heard that might result in regular season bans for all USSF associated members (includes USCS).
Do not know all the penalties.
Edina v. PL tonight with the winner playing Ep on Saturday.
Rumor has it MA & AK received two yr in -state bans. Can't confirm though
State Cup Committee doesn't have the power to do an in-state ban, only a ban from the State Cup/Nat'l Championship Series. Any further ban will have to come out of greivance hearings.
So, does it looks like MTA, as a club, is doing nothing to address these unethical coaches?
I wouldn't hold my breath. You might turn a shade of blue darker than their dark jerseys.
423 - washed or unwashed?
anon 3:01 - you are so smart to be able to come up with such easy and simplistic approaches for dealing with this type of situation. I can only imagine that if you would have been at the game 11 days ago that you would have stood up from the sidelines and yelled this is an atrocity and a violation of rule 1.2.4 and is punishable by waterboarding and MA should lose his license, AK should be kicked 2 times by a swedish maid, and the 11/12 year olds should protest madly.
If this is a witch hunt, let's go after every spectator that attended this game, MA, AK, players, parents, refs, field marshals, Tom Moriarty who was at Lucy Winton Bell that afternoon, the referees and the 3 young ladies working concessions. It is clearly disappointing that the poor-decision of 1 coach has negatively impacted 11, 12 and 13 year old MTA soccer players. This event quickly unraveled over the course of probably 5-10 minutes and will most likely influence these young ladies perception of leadership, sportsmanship and ethical behavior for years to come. With all this said, we are all wanting more information for our own individual purposes and agendas and the endless pontification that continues to spew from shallow and weak minds like yours and many others on this blog is only an effort to exhibit how smart we are in retrospectively looking back and acting so smug to tell everyone that in this same situation you would have handled a similar situation a such an upright and logical fashion.
tomAss
My point exactly, you did turn and yell at the EDP parents. I would also suggest that was probably the first time anyone turned an yelled at that group. Their behavior didn't just happen the two previous years the coach was WH. Their behavior has grown and develop to the point were their own children are embarassed by them. IMHO EP maybe doing some nice things in soccer, but their parent behavior and coaching leadership is something to be desired. Regarding forgiving WH, I would if I though he regretted his behavior and was trying to change. I haven't seen that at all.
Fact of the matter is, MYSA history (recent and ancient) shows the club will be allowed to disapline the coaches involved. MYSA will review that informationand perhaps add to it or support it. The Club will probably have some fine. I highly doubt that they will be banned as a club from State Cup or USSF events. Point in fact, DB from Arsenal as a coach and the boys director for the club and the fines and suspension he received. Also note DB has just started a new club. I strongly suspect MA will probably move to another area, Woodbury perhaps, and work as a trainer or some such nonsense.
"most likely influence these young ladies perception of leadership, sportsmanship and ethical behavior for years to come". Right on. They learned that disrespect of the game is not a good thing. They learned that it's difficult to cheat and get away with it. They learned that leaders/adults make mistakes too, and they learned by example that real character comes from owning up to one's own mistakes and moving forward in a positive manner.
These girls are scarred for life.
You people are ridiculous. I would love to peel a layer back on your life and see the mistakes you have made and how long it took you to take accountability for them and make amends.
The girls are fine. They have see an adult make a mistake, take responsibility and accept the consequences. A great life lession. They also learned that sometimes the consequences from one person's actions (coach) will inadvertantly harm another person (players). All in all a really valuable lesson for these kids. They are better not worse for the experience.
455 - gotcha
I misunderstood, you probably typed too fast on that post. I will always be a breath of fresh or pungent air no matter where I go, but you can be assured that it will most always be hot.....even in January
PS- I enjoy yelling at parents, keeps me from yelling at the referees.
4:56,
The EP girls who were threatened by WH if they chose another club?
I hear MTA feels there was only 1 coach who made a big mistake.
The word is the sanctions from the club will be significant.
My guess is MTA has interrogated the two coaches and heard from each of them and it won't be a kangaroo court finding someone guilty without evidence.
6:03 - old news and he was fined. In a nutshell, WH threatened their high school playing status at EP High School if they left EP Soccer Club. Funny, can't think of a single girl who has ever left. I guess the small fine was well worth the additional club fees.....
ok so what is the final if any ruling on the Mn Blunder Academy ?
Any score on the edina vs pl "replacement" game?
6:07,
I hadn't heard that story before. Gee, what a class act the little old coot is.
Was the fie from MSHSL or MYSA?
Any suspension or sanctions other than the fine?
i missed it. what is going on with MA & KA in the mysa and High school
sorry AK NOT AK
ok i mean ak not ka
Nothing will happen because both were MTA teams. There was no impact on non MTA teams.
Okay, for those of you who have not figured it out...why did this happen? Simple. MA is a successful, well respected, sought after coach. People pay lots of money and stand in line to have him coach their kids. He has a big ego, and it got the best of him. At some point, people with large egos begin to believe that the rules do not apply to them. Happens all the time. They get slapped, and hopefully learn their lesson. From what I hear, the sanctions by MYSA will be harsh, with both teams having consequences.
when will the general soccer public know whats going on
I suspect tomorrow since it will impact the weekend.
will MA's high school coaching job be effected?
well, here's what I learned since visiting this blog and reading about the last 50 posts:
- lots of rumors, no evidence
- lots of people claiming info from an "inside source," nothing posted on either MYSA web site or MTA web site
- tomASS is apparently in love with WH and gets mad when someone brings up the questionable ethics of his boyfriend
- a bunch of people (or maybe just one) claiming AK must be guilty because of his "silence"... as if he's obligated to explain himself to this BLOG of all things
- EP people claiming injustice because MTA didn't earn their spot in the final, yet they want to have the championship given to them without earning it
This is thread clearly thriving on anti MTA sentiment, yet the ones really looking bad seem to be the EP folks. Worst part is, they don't even know it.
I wish the pissed off WBL parent whose son wasn't good enough to make the team when it came over to SCV would just let it go. Sheesh.
M!M!
Tomass,I have told you lately I love you?
I'll buy this time!Peter
So what happened in the mystery game?
The outcome must be on a need to know basis.
PL won.
607 . . . don't be ridiculous. You can 'guess' that MTA'll do something, yet you have no idea what evidence was presented to the State Cup Committee so you'll disparage their process. Typical goober. You loyalty is only surpassed by your ignorance. Hooray if MTA does something . . . it's about time. They should have been the first to act.
MTA did something a long time ago. It doesn't need to be public for you yahoos to tear apart. The club will move on.
They're both still on the sideline last I checked.
Peter - you are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy when sky's are gray..........
Molly at BWW asked if I was going to sing again tonight and I said my favorite tenor was not available to join me
Skol Peter Skol
MTA 1002 anon - you must work for the state or federal government with such concise and brilliant observations? Or maybe you are a weather person with such an accurate forecast.
I think you might have failed the reading comprehension of the SAT's with answers like that.
Study harder and take the test again I know you can do better.
dear cowardly anon from EP with a daughter who didn't make the HS team under Wayne. But I'm just guessing now and have no hard facts to back up that claim, nor deny it, for that matter.
I do feel for you. I did not know that all 3 of the EP HS captains this coming year are playing for teams with the MTA instead of the EP club.
You need to get a hold of their parents so you can inform them of what is going to happen to their daughter's playing time or chances of making the team this year if Wayne finds out they are not part of his club.
Don't worry, I didn't say a word to Wayne so if we just keep quiet, maybe the whole thing will just blow over and Wayne will never know.
Let's just keep it our little secret. Shhhhhhhhh!
M!M! - parents hold big grudges and keep chips on their shoulders when things do not work out for their player.
I saw a game warm-up of a young MTA team tonight.
Does MTA promote lines during warm-ups?
Do they always practice taking PKs like I saw tonight prior to the game? Is this a carry-over from State Cup practices?
Do the parents of these younger and lower level teams pay a lot for this type of coaching?
I guess I was expecting more. My expectations were too high I guess. My fault.
10:50
PL won? What was the score? What are their chances against EP?
What a odd year at U-13. Who would have predicted PL vs EP in the final??? This game is a toss up. Who ever wins will very likely struggle at regionals. Good luck to both teams!
edina won 4-0 not prior lake. edina vs ep. not a horrible final actually
The MYSA State Cup standings/results are not updated to indicate any disqualifications. Are you all making this up about Edina and Prior Lake?
so funny, the more agitated tomASS gets the more he posts.
8 of the last 11 posts, including a random shot at MTA over a warm up he claims to have seen. I think he said it best when he described himself as herpes.
10:02 - I couldn't agree more with your point about "EP looking bad and not knowing it." If they wanted to stop this image slide the first thing they should do is fire tomASS as their unofficial suck up. what a blow hard.
anon736 - it is good posting practice to make sure multiple issues or rebuttals are posted separately.
Far from agitated, I haven't been around a washing machine for a few days. If anything I can't stop laughing on how people spin and hang things out to dry.
I have no problem with you last comment since I assume you would recognize herpes when you see it. Experience matters in that call.
You all need to grow up a bit. This is a blog, not a free ride to act like U6s.
Is this the same Edina team that MTA U13 Blue beat 4-1 in pool play? If they win and go to regionals, then shame on MTA for not figuring out which of their three semi-finalists should have won the title......
anon 737 - actually I'm their unofficial, self appointed court jester. I just haven't informed them of my promotion yet.
I didn't know free speech was something you could be fired for solely because you disagree with what I am saying. You must be one of those liberals Ii have heard about.
This was so easy to predict. Once things didn't work out for MTA the way the parents wanted them to, they start transferring the blame to EP.
So far from what I have read, I'm the only poster to have claimed any association to EP and that is through friendships. And if you want to go back and re-read, I actually said that I thought the MTA u13 should be allowed to play.
MTA folks, EP is not responsible for the position you are now facing.
Tomass, I sometimes agree with you. Even when I don't I can at least understand your position. But your defense of WH appears to be colored by your friendship. I don't know if anyone else on this blog is defending the man. Yes, good people occasionally do bad things, but bad people also do good things, when it is in their best interest.
Boy if this is Colette's Edina team, I'm going have a tough decision on who to cheer for.
Colette's a favorite of mine too. Sorry Colette, you are now guilty by association.
I'll just cheer the good, fair play of the players from each side as they battle for the prize.
anon 805 - you are correct. My friendship may cloud my perception, but I would hope its because I know him better than most. I am a very loyal to my friends.
I can tell you from a soccer perspective that if you deserve to be on the field of play, Wayne will have you will be on the field of play regardless of where you play your club soccer.
I do know the difference between evil and good and Wayne is not evil, nor is he a bad person.
Tomass is defending WH, the person, not what he did several years ago. Nothing wrong with that.
Just like you can defend your god MA and dislike his recent decision.
835 - Thank you - spot on
I am not a MA fan. I am not defending MA. 8:35, where in my post did I defend MA.
However, I do believe that WH actions should have received a more harsh punishment. MA's actions where an on the field coaching decision, and a bad one. WH's was systematic, broad reaching, and occured more often than "the letter." Some speculate that it still happens. An he received a small fine. I doubt MA will get off with a fine. I would guess he will be out of MYSA coaching/events for 2-3 years (and he should be.)
8:05
I think MA's ban will extend well beyond MYSA events. A ban from one organization affiliated w/USSF carries over to others, so that would include everything in youth soccer that MTA's currently associated with. There are avenues for appeal, but USSF has sent a strong message in the past that they won't be pleased if one organization allows someone to coach when another has found reason for sanctions.
get a job, or a life. you know who you are.
why are people referencing a decision that hasn't been announced? Or is this typical MYSA "lets make a call, but not publicize it or post it anywhere so we won't face any scrutiny over it"
and now he is laying face down in the mud. how very sad
928, my apologies. I am making and A$$ out of just me in this case. I'm going on the BELIEF that the State Cup Committee will impose some sort of ban on MA and possibly AK. That will be followed by an MYSA ban when their greivance committee meets (greivance filings have been made). It would surprise me if they didn't do the MYSA thing since the State Cup thing sounds like a done deal. I was just trying to clarify a previous post where someone had mentioned an MYSA ban, and that they do typically carry over to all organizations within USSF. Apologies to all, but I think it's a pretty safe assumption.
anon 910 - go back to my post in the early morning hours.
You still claim it is going on today, yet the 3 HS captains for the EP girls team this year are all playing outside the EP club.
If you are good enough to be on the EP HS team you will be on the team, regardless of where you play. This year perfect example, last year also a great example.
tfohhh - I haven't been on a horse since the age of 4. Horses are my kryptonite. But it was a tall one or maybe it's because I was a short one.
regardless, I stand on my own two legs and walk on the earth. It's not such a long fall that way
943 - great add-on funny. Now that's how you post.
Tomass, you used to be a voice of reason on this blog. Don't drop into the mire of negativity that this blog fuels. Your posts are starting to smack of sourness.
1022 - appreciate the good advice and compliment. I'm certain some will question your sanity claiming me to be the voice of reason.
I will be more than happy to keep discussions reasonable, when the topics are reasonable and we can debate without thinking disagreements are personal attacks. Sometime a guy just needs to have fun.
Thanks for your good perspective
I thought EPHS had a good season, if there's all this strife with WH how can that be?
Strife does not equal a bad record. Some of the best teams I've been on had people on it that barely talked off of the pitch. I am in no way making a statement either way about EVHS or WH, just thought that 1051 was connecting dots where there don't have to be any (and maybe they aren't).
The U13 brackets are updated on the MYSA Web site http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/events/09statecup/13girls.pdf
Edina 4 - Prior Lake 0
They added an asterisk in the group play standings, *note says "eliminated from competition"
It's official (as per the updated results PDF on the U13G State Cup secion of MYSA)
EDI over PL 4 -0 in the replacement semi. EDI v EP final.
Wow. That blows for the MTA U13 girls. They'll get over it in a minute and will win the thing as U14s. More motivation now.
WH sounds like a doozy of a guy. The story about him charging the pitch cursing at a youth ref is classic. Get a grip, guy. Threatening players from leaving EP? Wow! At least he's learned his lesson and learned that top players benefit from leaving their CCs as tomASS implies. I'm surprised he still has a job. I'd be fired if I had done stuff like that.
I am not seeing where they took the team out, can someone point me in the right direction.
I bet if WH reads this blog the only thing going through his mind is; "shut up tomASS, stop posting tomASS, tomASS for the love of god get of that ridiculous blog"
that bracket makes NO sense. I wish MYSA could have the guts to post a clear decision explaining what they did rather than leaving it to interpretation.
I hope Edina beats EP, now THAT would be funny. MA has REALLY got to be kicking himself now, his decision couldn't have blow up any worse.
Has anyone noticed that the blogs by Mark and Andy have stopped on there web site. Not a word from either of them about whats going on. Has anyone heard does Mark still have a job in Woodbury coaching the New High School
Classic. A team that gets destroyed 4-1 and had to rally to tie a mid-level C1 team 2-2 now has a very good chance of going to regionals. You couldn't make this stuff up.
so 11:48 - are you hoping he still has a job or if they let him go??
11:50 - yes, I can't wait to see how well MN is represented at regionals this year in the U13 bracket.
It doesn't matter either way to me. But I have a few friends in Woodbury and they were not to thrilled about him being the coach in the first place. Something about him forming his team around MTA players and not keep it an open roster for all to play.
It doesn't matter either way to me. But I have a few friends in Woodbury and they were not to thrilled about him being the coach in the first place. Something about him forming his team around MTA players and not keep it an open roster for all to play.
I wish either team well at Regionals. I can't believe you'd wish ill for a team, just because your team was sanctioned for breaking rules. That's probably the best testament to the lack of sportsmanship that caused this problem in the first place.
Of course, why would he form a team with the best players, when he should tell people they have to play for Woodbury to be on his "New Woodbury High School" team... please.
People! Please stop ragging on MA! If you've got a problem with him, pick up the phone and give him a call - or write an e-mail...whatever. OK. He screwed up at it cost him, his players, the U13 players and coach, and his Club. He knows that. But to imply that he's not good (or even great) at what he does, and to say he doesn't deserve a post as banal as HS soccer is just ridiculous. Mark should go for Region II girls development director...Or maybe he's even overqualified for that!
This forum for person bashing, especially under the Anonymous name, is simply childish.
12:22 - I was 12:20, not raggin on MA but pointing out that of COURSE he would have MTA players on his team... there's no senior class at East Ridge, so the Inferno girls aren't going to be coming over, and outside of that team talent at Woodbury is mediocre at best.
12:16 - don't see any posts wishing ill wish to the teams at regionals. looks like you accidentally swallowed one of those sour grapes you love sucking on so much.
12:05, your friends are morons. He will form his team around the players that attend East Ridge. You really think he can be picking in a brand new high school, starting a program from scratch?
I tell you what, though. A LOT of younger girls within the East Ridge boundaries will want to move to MTA. There will be pressure. (That said, WDB really has nothing to offer young players. After the Inferno, they have nothing. All the good Woodbury-are players are at SCV or MTA).
1248, read 1150 and 1157 . . . if not wishing them ill, certainly disparaging them as being less than qualified.
disparaging? or putting forth an opinion? good to have the blog thought police out in force.
it's always interesting to see who pops on this blog depending on the topic and what person or team is involved.
edina vs ep...looks like the #5 and #4 team, winner going to regions. Good Luck in SD.
1258 . . .how do you figure? I get the edina as a poss. #5 argument (didn't make the semis), but based on the on field results from the brackets, you'd have to consider EP as being #2 (and possibly #1). And if you knew anything about soccer, rankings don't mean diddly-squat. Oh that's right, some people think they it's ok to determine who's best by arranging outcomes of games.
OMG...
It's not the end of the world.
An underdog U13 team is heading to Regions.
Good luck to them.
They will have a memorable experience.
I for one am glad to see MYSA, or whoever, making a statement regarding the incident.
MTA 1,2,3
I do not have a player on either of the teams that were disqualified. However, I have been waiting to see how it would play out. I can't believe that the U13 MTA team was not given a chance to play a new semi-final game. If the coaches were found to have conspired to affect the outcome of that game, then they should be punished for that. But what did these 12 & 13 year old players do wrong? They are being punished for what their coaches did? Does that really make sense? Couldn't they have put a new coach in place and let them re-play a semi-final game?
ranking girls soccer at age 12 and 13...get a life!
And EP parents are dillusional... they shouldn't have won the semi game they did, and may not have if they hadn't watched the circus that was the previous game before taking the field. We'll never know, but a real possibility.
EP would be ranked #2 at worst in this group. I have NO dog in this fihgt.
1150 and 1157 - you're welcome to your opinions about the strength of representation from MN at the U13 girls level.
Myself? I will be proud to send EP or Edina to represent MN at regions regardless of the results they may be able to achieve.
Why? I'llBRtBack states it very well, because neither team's club thought it was ok to determine who's best by arranging outcomes of games.
EP is #2 based on barely beating the #3 MTA team? Really?
1:16, yes it does make sense to punish the coaches AND the teams. It's called history . . . it doesn't take an internet wizard to find other similar cases in Cal No, Mich, and several other cases. It's the appropriate response and it's not like new punishments were invented for this.
1:32, #3 by who's measure? I agree that ranking these teams is completely arbitrary. And there are columns for wins, losses, ties, GP, GA, GF etc. . . I've never seen a qualitative measure for a win. There is no barely won. You win or you don't. You win and you deserve to say you're better than the team you beat. You make it to the finals, you deserve to say that in that tournament, you were at least #2. Maybe not everyday or even in the next week, but at that time, definitely. Your rantings betray you loyalties.
anon119 - from previous posts it appeared that most MTA people did not want to do any speculation about AK's involvement, without hard evidence and facts
your post about EP is even greater speculation without even an ounce of circumstantial evidence to remotely support your opinion stated.
MTA players, parents, club members are allowed to be bitter, mad, upset,and to grieve about the decision and the lost opportunity that will not be available to them again until next year. I would only suggest that before you attack the forces outside the confines of the club that you explore the internal factors involved. Doing so will only make you stronger and better in the long run
What should it be based on, your opinion? Just because they are from MTA? Come on, even if you drink the kool-ade you should try to be objective. Who says they were the #3 MTA team anyway? Oh, wait, it is whatever MA decides, not based on winning or losing in competition.
The one thing I know MA is doing that the parents are not, is setting an example by how he is handling the situation with manners and grace
I love how tomASS is throwing crap with the rest of the monkeys and then talks down about them for doing it. awesome.
I do respect the guy for his ability to coach (and score back in the day). With his knowledge of soccer, here and around the US, I'd be surprised if he couldn't have predicted the sanctions. He's a sharp guy and may have told his team the probable outcome way before it was let out of the bag. It wouldn't surprise me at all.
And for whomever suggested that he go for Region II Development Dir, I think he'd be bored out of his mind. Not enough day to day to keep him occupied. I know he's had offers to do other things in soccer, so maybe now he'll consider some of them.
12:53 - you mean, like EP PLAYERS WHO MOVE TO/STAY IN THAT CLUB BECAUSE OF WH??? gasp.
I'llBRtBack
1:16 pm here. I was looking for the rationale of the decision, not how other state assocations have dealt with similar issues. Again, the coaches were found to be in the wrong and they should be punished. I'm trying to understand why the players, who did nothing wrong, also have to be punished. I don't have a player on this team, but if I did, hopefully as a parent I would have been provided with the rationale - that's what I'm interested in hearing.
"your post about EP is even greater speculation without even an ounce of circumstantial evidence to remotely support your opinion stated. " I was at the game - were you? Oh, that's right, 98% of the people on here are not and feel free to "speculate" about these events... opinions, you argued the right for everyone to have one, right? Clearly there is VERY little fact here...
tomASS,
You certainly live up to your name.
"Why? I'llBRtBack states it very well, because neither team's club thought it was ok to determine who's best by arranging outcomes of games."
Now you're pinning the actions of 1 coach on the club?
Get a life.
It's so clear, that I'm surprised you even have to ask. Also clearly established in law (and I'm no lawyer) - you can't benefit from an illegal activity. Period. Note the now missing banners at Williams arena - that final 4 doesn't exist as far as the records show, and if they'd found out something during the tournament and had the ability to act, they would have been dq'd. And how other states have dealt with it matters. I'm sure no one in MYSA wanted to appear to either favor MTA nor be overly sanctioning them.
MN Futbol Blog = nonsense filled hypocritical lunatic rants
proud to post.
I watched an EP team warm up the other night. Do they always have lines during warm ups? Do they always practice penalties before games?
I would have thought the quality of coaching would be higher at EP, I guess I expected too much.
Ah, if he was only just one coach . . . it was two coaches. It was two coaches who are directors in their club. It was two coaches who'd openly talked about it and blogged about it. Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that no one else in the club read those blogs or knew of the conversations? And yet no one came forward to say anything. All it would have taken is one person to talk to a board member to head this off. So it was either purposefully overlooked, or no one had the rocks to stand up and say 'NO!!!!, THAT'S WRONG!'
2:08 - regarding your last line, it is still too early to tell. Let's wait and see what kind of MYSA penalties are imposed and on both coaches (since they have obviously concluded that AK was also complicit as evidenced by his U13 team being disqualified). Time wil tell.
This blog reminds me of the old jounalism catch-phrase....."never let the facts get in the way of a good story".....
"Your mom is anonymous . . ." and so is everyone who looks like her. Your mom is so anonymous that . . . ? (responses please)
Your mom is so anonymous that even her tatoo is generic.
I am confident either EP or Edina will represent MN well. Will they win? probably not but especially with all of the distractions and attention this age group has had it will be good to get this years State Cup finished. Lets all hope for a good clean game with little or no wind or rain.
Well said 2:21. They'll do their best and MN'll be proud of them whatever happens.
152 - so you're saying I could be in politics eh?
difference - the crap I'm throwing has my stench attached to it. I am will to at least be responsible and take credit good or bad for my comments and opinions.
those that are anon time stamps can't be bothered to associated with their own posts' statements.
"tomASS said...
The one thing I know MA is doing that the parents are not, is setting an example by how he is handling the situation with manners and grace"
It is amazing that you know what parents are doing and not doing - get a life you loser. By the way, I would like a a new pair of NikeID's for Christmas you dope.
158 - the game was won by EP. Not speculation.
Everything else is should've, would've, could've
But did not happen as you speculate
259 - It appears it is the parents from MTA that have the bigger concern on this blogs posts.
base on how they state their feelings versus how Mark has expressed his, I see a world of difference
waiting for Cinnamon Life to go on sale or see if I have a coupon before getting that Life.
The ending I have no clue what you are getting at besides you think I am a dope. Take a number and get in line for entry into that club
211 - sounds like the NY Times and MSNBC
regarding the implications of AK's involvement.
All MYSA had to do was speak with the 4th official regarding AK's involvement since the discussion between MA & AK took place in front of the 4th official.
Tell me all what the difference is here:
2009, U13G game - u12/u13 coaches (assumption) agree not to score so team could prevent others from moving on.
2009, U16G game - both coaches (not assumption, center referee warns kids during play) agree not to score so both teams moving on, preventing tams in other brackets from advancing.
tomASS - why didn't the 4th official step in when it began?
If you are operating on factual information, what responsibility does the 4th referee have in upholding the integrity of the game?
wow which u16 game was that?
anon 336 young (16-17) and first time being 4th official so not completely certain of his complete responsibilities.
3;37 - it is factual information. my opinion and through the use of game management, an experienced 4th official might let the coaches know what he has heard and that he will include in his game report about the unsportsmanlike discussion he heard. The 4th official should also inform the center official of the discussion he heard.
At least the coaches at that point would have another chance to think through their actions.
The center knowing could also explain to the coaches that it would be in his game report.
Now I did hear a good reason for yellow carding every player on the u12 team that took the shots from the mark. Assuming they were getting their first yellow card of the match, no harm or punishment is really attached to the players.
What it would do is raise all sorts of flags in the national office seeing a game report where, 5 players during shots from the mark, all received yellow cards. That type of unusual report would receive extra attention supported by other aspects of the game report concerning the discussion that took place in front of the 4th official.
Few minor details, but I think important - 4th wasn't 16-17, he's an adult (early 20's), so maybe inexperienced but smart enough to pay attention and bring it to light after the fact. You can second guess him now, but I think just the fact that he realized this was a time to get every detail right is important. I think you'd go to double yellow on the second shot for UB and PI.
I wonder why this U16 instance did not rise to the outrage that the U12/13's did?
If the 4th official did hear the plans, and did not report it to the center, prior to it taking place, he has implicated himself as well. If he did inform the center and the center did not speak to the coaches prior to the event, then the center is also implicated.
Alas...may not be a game this weekend. Parents may be / may have already filed an injunction. This could be the MN state senate debacle replayed...
Cinnamon Life, Maple Life, and regular Life are on sale at Cub 2/$4 this week. I just stocked up. (They really are on sale, no joke!)
I knew MTA parents were a crazy bunch, but litigation? Against AK? MA? MTA? Those are the parties responsible. Oh yeah, you should add in the u12 parents, as they too were in on this from the beginning.
If you can't earn what you want, try cheating to have the other team throw the game your way. If that doesn't work, try litigation. Way to set a good example for the young'uns.
Hmmm, funny, U13 players, who won the game, had nothing to do with any of this. They qualified for the final. MYSA took it away from them. MYSA went against the precidence of letting the players decide things on the field. MYSA has created a can of worms, by doing what they do best, make bad decisions. I bet you are one of those people who think that laws and the legals system are only relevant when it benefits them.
Wow, this thing exploded today.
Don't forget the referees. Who may have had prior knowledge, but let the shoot out go along anyway. 4:42 is correct, they've implicated themselves.
5:30 said "MYSA went against the precidence of letting the players decide things on the field".
I assume you meant MTA instead of MYSA. MYSA is not responsible for the position that that u13s find themself in. It is MA & AK you should be calling idiots. Egocentric idiots, but idiots just the same.
Peter - you are my sunshine, my only sunshine, you make me happy when sky's are gray..........
Molly at BWW asked if I was going to sing again tonight and I said my favorite tenor was not available to join me
Skol Peter Skol
ha ha,thats great.Might be tough to replicate that day but we can try!!Peter
4;11 thank you for your age correction he reffed a game of mine last year and I don't recall him being that old.
explain why you think the second UB is a soft red?
442 and 533 - as i stated earlier MTA folks are all looking to transfer blame away. Now they are trying to implicate responsibility on the referees who have probably never ever faced such a situation in their lives before.
you just can't make that up.
4:33 The answer is because it kept SSM out of the semis. That is why.
Enough of the "why hurt the kids" crap. No one cared when MYSA made a "mistake" and allowed SSM U16G into MRL. Then came back later to try and keep them out of State Cup by saying the MRL season didn't count. They were then forced into C3 where NO ONE HAS BENEFITTED FROM THE PLACEMENT. Who was punished there? The kids- both SSM U16G and all the C3 teams they have had to play.
Shut up, hypocrites.
5:03 Maple Life too!!!!!
I guess I can now go get a Life. Thanks for the heads up.
433- need more details of the match. Seems to have been presented in a bias editorialized manner.
5;30 name calling because you don't agree?
512 - thought it was a good opinion. I'm ok being an idiot
3:36 & 3:56 Big-Tom,
Having been away from the blog a couple days, it is surprising to see continued discussion about whether officials handled the situation appropriately. An official’s job is to officiate, not rush to judgment and try to force a given outcome. I regret ever stretching to the suggestion about "the second kicker could be cautioned for UB, then shown a second yellow for team pattern of PI of violating sportsmanship rules". My apology to USSF referees everywhere.
Showing cards would not change the outcome of the match, and targets the players rather than the root of the problem (coach). Cards would amount to little more than impotent grandstanding. Might as well puff up with self-righteous indignation and announce the whole team is going straight to hell. :-( …or perhaps it's better to do what this crew did, set the emotions aside and let logic prevail.
Officials should enforce LOTG and report unusual incidents in the game report. You better believe folks in charge will take notice of the game report, even without player cautions. It is up to the governing body to decide win, loss, forfeit, or rematch. They can also enforce consequences targeting the source of the problem, if the coach has future matches under their control. I empathize that we all prefer to nip bad behavior in the bud, and immediately halt such a travesty. But coaches don’t get cards, and we shouldn’t be throwing our youth players under the bus.
Emphatically, no! The official should not try to punish the players. I would hate for some young referee out there to caution a player this summer after a cleat gets snagged in the long grass. As painful as it is to wait for the official review and decision, referees acted appropriately on the pitch.
…well at least we had the BLOG to drag it out and make if feel like a two year ordeal… :-)
613 - I agree. As I stated earlier I personally would not throw yellows out but had never considered the opinion that it might bring greater attention to the game report.
I will trust your experience that it would not help in the administrative manner described to me.
solid post.
The why, in all of their infinite wisdom, has MNSRA instructed referees to head off possible misconduct, by talking to players who are engaging in 'lead up' behaviour? "No foul, don't foul,", "Keep your hands down 13", "Don't retailiate 8".???????
Refs also talk to teams before game and after half time, when their has been some rough play in previous half or previous games, warning them and outlining the consequences.
The talking to players, before they have done anything, while annoying, has become common place in MN.
This makes me sad.
I have no kids in the game anymore, but have been with a team that got it's clock cleaned at regions. Three visits to the ER, no goals for, 19 against, demoralized parents, demoralized kids, team disintegrated.....I hope that is not in the cards for EDI or EDP. Don't know the teams, but it is rough out there.
Sorry this is happening to Abboud, despite his own doing. For over 15 years, he has gone over and above. My 20 something year old says she learned the joy of the game, sportsmanship, teamwork and hard work from Mark. He has made a lot of good difference in a lot of kids lives. He has also had to deal with jealousy, character assassination, assumptions and rumors about everything from his sexuality to his personal character despite a lack of evidence to support it. There were, as he says, lots of haters , and I hate that he served them up such a big plate of opportunity. I believe that while flawed, he is a decent human being.
I am sad because there is a group of little girls who are going to be caught up in a maelstrom of politics and parental feelings and disruption, when they have each made a commitment to training hard and working hard and teamwork. This isn't their fault and it can't feel good.
I am sad for all of you who have skin in this game, as I think it will take years for the youth soccer community to heal. By virtue of some of the old baggage brought up on this thread, it is clear that this children's sport leaves scars on some grown ups.
That is my piece.
Well put. It is a shame the kids are the ones who really lost out.
Your mom is so anonymous ;
Her whole wardrobe consists of MTA fanwear.
eliminated from competition
that's it
Virtually all medical professionals agree that the release of anger and hostility is a crucial component to improved mental as well as physical health. With that in mind, I think we all need to look at MTA not with disdain, but with gratitude. For without their actions last weekend, the vast majority of bloggers on this thread would not be feeling so refreshed and energized.
We might all want to also show a bit of pity to those involved with MTA as they have decisions to make that few if any of our daughter's coaches will have to make. While 99% of the clubs out there just hope to get one team into the State Cup semi-finals, MTA has to decide which two (and in some cases three) teams should compete for the championship at many age groups. I'm sure it is a cross none of you would like to bear.
So next time you see a MTA parent, coach, or player, don't disparage them, but give them a hug and say "thank you" because without MTA, I would not be feeling so vibrant and that I also empathize with you because of the difficult decisions that your club must make.
And the next time see 8:22 recommend a good soccer camp for his dd.
I heard MTA has some good ones.
Because enjoying a child play good soccer is better for your health than hating.
8:22 - classic.
8:22 Hey Man, good for you, If that makes you feel better about your self validation of a culture of Manipulation (even when we know whats best) then you just go ahead and spew. We're here for you buddy. Vent that anger, it's ok we understand your need to redirect those feelings of frustration. AK and MA are great dudes and the world is picking on them, I get it, these other yahoos on this blog just don't understand our superior ability to understand the better good that these two, and you and I serve. Lets face it,,, we , I mean you and I , we, really know the truth about who should represent MN at the Regional tournament. To heck with the silly game? Right, I am with you buddy!!!!
8:22 here, it's almost too easy with a few of you.......
8:22 and 9:08 sad truth, if you were tongue in cheek, you're comments are so consistant with the legit goo bird parents that it was hard to tell you played the sarcasm card. Good work, the reread makes me laugh. YOu 1 me 0 good work. 9:02
Has anyone heard the official on MA and AK is there any kind of suspension going to happen or is this is it, there two teams not eligible for regionals
thanks 9:18, I'm surprised there has been any response since I used a lot of big words.....
9:25 give me a break I used two four syllable words in my response (9:02). I can read big words, just not 100% sure I can spell or understand them :)
The best part of this blog is that is give hope to the parents of kids who can't make it on talent alone. Maybe my kid will play if the other kid is caught drinking or her coach is caught cheating. Oh please oh please.....
9:44 Are you saying the U-13's were caught drinking TOO? I hope MA and AK are not involved that would be a terrible headline!!!
9:44
Thats the irony of it all, if you dd plays for MA , talent does nt matter. The "system" is superior.
so 9:55 which would you rather have......a "system" that wins titles or "talent" that loses.....?
Weird - much fixation on the U12 & 13 but no one cares about the same situation at U16 level. Appears this is a "I hate MTA and nothing more", cheating aside.
MA is suspended by MYSA for a year.
What is the "situation" at the U16 level?
Everybody needs to get off MA's back. The guy simply made a mistake.
soccrgeek - nice post, good to hear about your daughter's experience
8:22 - I thought it was a well written lampoon. Could be an article for the Onion. It was a great LOL
11:21- I think there is more anger about the u13 team penalty than there is about Mark's mistake.
He does open himself up for scrutiny with his public blog about his team.
Good Luck today and have fun. May the best team win and please no injuries. Fun and Fair and do a little a$$ kicking.
God is Great
Beer is Good
and
People are Crazy
anon 10:37,
Are you the "unbiased" leaker from inside MYSA who has been leaking info on this blog?
It's nice to know some in our MYSA gang are so ethical and have higher standards than their target of choice,Mark Abboud.
Some folks just can't disguise their hate.
I think people accept the actions taken against Abboud.
It was folly for them to penalize the U13 team for actions they couldn't control.
I hope those involved in the spiteful AK/U13 decision can sleep at night after they took everything away from a bunch of 12-13 year old girls.
Doing that to the U13 team puts those folks in the same league as Abboud.
Think about it. It's going to haunt you for the rest of your lives.
Pray that God forgives you. He works in mysterious ways.
8:19 A little over the top?
As a irregular poster on this blog who deals with these player/parent/coach/club/MYSA issues, this whole thing is sad. Youth sports in general are sad. About the only good in youth sports are the youth themselves on the field, court or rink. Maybe we should disorganize all youth sports, kick the parents, coaches and admins out and just let them play? Adults can really screw it all up! Everyone, parents and adult supervisors should all take a step back and realize what we are doing to our kids. No wonder some species actually eat their young.
Anon 8:19
First, the girls in question are 11 & 12. If they are so talented, if the system is so good, they will have six more chances to win State Cup.
Second, I suspect from what I saw that State Cup committee did not go over the top but gave those involved appropriate sancantions. Your beef isn't with the State Cup Committee & MYSA it is with MA.
Third, obvioulsy your little girl had something bad happen to you/her that probably you/she feels that you/she had no controll over. This is your parenting moment....Do you post on this stupid blog, ranting at god and cursing the organizations charge with up holding the rules...or...Do you sit down with your dd and explain how bad things do still happen to good poeple, that life is not fair. But how we/you/she respond to those events say more about us than most any other time in our lives.
Fourth, stop crying in the spilled milk, the decision is made, move on. It is time to grow up.
8:40,
I don't think that post is over the top.
I hope those folks are feeling a lot of guilt.
Their rush to judgment against MA got them thirsting for blood so AK and his team also suffered the anger
and consequences they felt towards Abboud. They were like sharks ina feeding frenzy.
Those folks did more harm to the U13 girls than Abboud did.
Their rush to judgment clouded any logical thought process they may be capable of in more rational moments.
there never would have been this much of an outcry if the two teams in question had been from a club other than MTA........come to think of it, this situation never would have happened in that scenario as that would require another club having two teams make it to the semi-finals.
anon 907,
If you were AK and when the shootout started and Abboud had his girls pass the ball to the keeper what would you have done?
What control did AK have over the situation?
Use your brain. Don't let hate block using logic to evaluate the situation.
If you were AK what could he have done to stop Abboud from carrying out his actions?
I won't hold my breath waiting for an answer to these questions.
As far as I can see none of the u12/u13s had any control over the event that took place... the blame is with the coaches involved and no one else...they broke the rules and unfortunately the team suffers...do i think MA/AK are bad people ...no they just made a poor choice...both teams will build character from this and come back stronger then ever...kids are more resilent then you think...PS I have no stake in this my former soccer playing DD is twenty something
Ok, if you want to play the "what if game" here goes. If I had been AK, I would have said something to any of the officials’ as..."hey that was kind of strange huh"
Now, let us play my "what if"....
Scenario 1: If you were, MYSA/State Cup Committee and the evidence presented told you. That MA said to AK at when the girls were walking out onto the field for the shoot out. “Were going to throw the game” and AK response was “ok” what should the sanctions be?
Scenario 2: If you were MYSA/State Cup Committee and had a letter from MA stating he threw the game so that OUR U13 team could advance what would you do? Should the U13 team benefit from the illegal action of MA, who has clearly taken some ownership in?
Sc #1 - Assuming this did happen, AK still has no control what others do. See response below.
Sc #2 - U13 should have played another semi final game against the next in line (Prior Lake) for a fair chance to move to the next round.
Definately a good learning opportunity, but hard for a kids to understand why coaches they trust would put some arrogant "club interests" concept ahead of the players.
I'll state it again:
1. You cannot benefit from an illegal activity (even if you didn't know there was an illegal activity).
2. If you do know of an illegal activity and you participate (even passively), you are a co-conspirator.
Given these facts (see all of the posts regarding what the 4th official heard) - MYSA had no choice but to follow the rules that have been applied in previous cases. Both coaches conspired = both teams are disqualified. Cut and dry, simple to understand. Get over it and quit being a martyr. You are not a bunch of individuals. You are part of a team (which includes the coach), you are part of a club. If one team member (even the coach) cheats, you all pay. If you play for a club that puts club stature above the integrity of the game, your team may pay for that too.
Ok, Ok I get AK is not responsible for "AGREEING" to MA throwing the game and U13 girls should profit from both coaches fixing the game for their benefit. Therefore, if you tell your wife you are going to kill your rich uncle to inherited his fortune and she agrees, she not guilty of anything because she only agree with you which should not be considered active participation in the murder. The fact that she did not tell anyone what you were going to do, and she that she never told you not to kill him has no relevance in your mind. However your family should still get his fortune because they did not do anything wrong, yeah you killed him for his fortune and even thou your not getting it, you kids/family should still get it. I would say you have a strange set of values.
I don't get the argument that AK had no control over the situation. He had all kinds of control. If he knew what MA was doing, and didn't approve of it, why couldn't he have had his girls do exactly the same thing? Or have his keeper let the balls roll past her? Or refuse to take the shots until the whole thing was straightened out with a discussion between himself, MA, and some officials?
I'm not saying that the two wrongs would make a right - this whole fiasco is way too messed up for that - but saying that he had no control over the situation just isn't true.
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