The Sunday 5/17 MN State Cup U13 Girls semi final game between MTE13GC101 (U12s playing up) and MTA13GC101 ended with a bit of controversy. According to the MTE13GC101 coach's statements in his own blog:
"I told them I was so proud of their efforts, but I wanted them to step up and pass the ball to the U13 GK when it was their turn to shoot. "
This has stirred up many questions about ethical behaviour. Some are speculating that the MTA13GC101, Coach AK, may have known what was going to happen as well. There seems to be more bloggers chiming in with strong concerns about Coach MA's decision. Still a few are defending his actions.
The MTA "club" has tried to distance themselves from the controversy by stating on their web site:
"The MTA Executive Board is aware of an incident at State Cup this past weekend. It was a coach's decision that came into question; an individual decision, and it was not supported by the club. We are looking into it further to deem whether any disciplinary action is needed."
What could be even more disturbing is that Coach MA may have informed the team parents of his plans, during the previous winter. If true, why wasn't anything done?
What's next? What will MYSA do? What will USYSA do? What will MTA do?
1,023 comments:
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you misunderstand, the red mist is the anger that blinds people when discussing those people or things that they do not like. Again, not specific to this incident, as I mentioned before, and my comments were made based upon the overall experience on the sideline and the comments on the other stories on this blog, too.
Wipe away the mist, and read what I wrote. It is not solely about this specific event, although this event has caused more public lunacy than all the other youth soccer happenings have combined.
"They ruined the tournament" is an example of the silliness. I will agree that one of the fourteen age group parts of the event has been messed up. Ruined? Not quite, but made a mess of, for sure. This event affected three teams - the two involved in the match, and the EP team in the final.
You think it has an effect on the whole tournament? How much do you think the other age groups know about or care about any other specific age group? Most are KAFs, and neither the U13G age group nor what occurs in it affects them in the least.
btw, I agree with the underlying idea in most of the comments in this story - someone did something wrong. Not a fan of what he did. Regardless, that does not make the lunacy magically become proper behavior.
... and here is the intro to my original post. Read again, and not the events and stories that I am using as my basis for commentary - most clearly not only the U13G incident.
oops forgot to paste!
"It is interesting to me that so many comments are here and on the girls state cup story, but only 25% the number of comments on the boy's state cup story.
Add to that the number of people who are commenting about "the game" being insulted in this incident, and it makes me more curious.
Most of you here are not fans of the game; you are fans of your daughter's activity, and bigger fans of spouting off. I truly hope many of you become fans of the game, but after watching games at NSC Cup this weekend, my confidence in that is shaken."
you don't get it. 1 big, major Mn club with abject influence in Mn soccer broke more than a fundamental rule, (in the state cup tourny no less). 1 age out of 14 agreed. It is a seed planted.
irregardless of the sport, event, stage, when a serious offense like this happens and nothing is done - quickly - then you get all of the lunacy you speak of.
Had MYSA stepped in quickly and handled it even quicker. Then you don't have the lunancy.
Now doubt creeps in because of the club involved.
In retrospect MYSA is now just as much to blame. No red mist here, just looking at the whole pic.
quick handling would have made sense.
most of the lunacy at other state cup games (both locations, btw) and at that other tournament had nothing at all to do with the U13G state cup semi final.
This occurrence just gave a convenient reason for many to spout off about someone/some club/some team they hate/dislike, which is a big part of my original point. Take a look at the typical comments here, and give a good listen on the sidelines, wherever you go. Although it is often louder and more harsh toward MTA (and a few others at times), it exists everywhere. Not soccer fans, and mostly not what we would want our kids to look like.
thanks for the good discussion, and feel free to get the last post in. gotta get out to the yard for a bit before turning in.
to all the rest of you - I hope this good discussion does not put you off of getting back to your normal, venomous bile! :p
fine, i'll take the last post.
You just need to recognize the fact that any club/team/program cannot be allowed to conduct themselves in this manner and not face ramifications whether it is official (MYSA) or court of public opinion (this blog). It's unfortuanately, a bigtime Mn soccer club did this, with all eyes watching. Very brazen.
Because this involved two MTA teams there will be no penalties. Simply poor sportsmanship.
as a newcomer...why is soccer the only sport to hold a tournament in May, that sends the winner on to regions in July? Are we really sending the best team (in july) when it counts?
We're actually late in the process compared to some as far as qualifying for regions.
regionals are 6/18-6/23, so that only leaves teams roughly 3 weeks. travel arrangements have to be made, etc..... 9:05 is correct in that as states go we are actually fairly late, but our weather has much to do with that.
I'm ashamed of MY Soccer Association for taking too long.
lc
I'm ashamed of the MY Soccer Community for many of the comments on this blog.
cl
lc, you have to realize how long it takes to gather the information, question the individuals involved, look to the national office for precedent and/or guidance, consult with legal counsel . . . all the while trying to keep a volunteer board informed. IMS said that the State Cup committee met on the 20th, so I think that's pretty quick actually. My own little community board that I serve on had some issues recently and it's not easy to get people together with all the spring school activities going on in their own busy lives.
10:11 again . . . not to mention that fact that it was a holiday so many were probably not available locally and nationally.
red mist KAF anon - if you help one parent your advice is worth the post and read.
thank god I'm not a KAF ;-)
anon 1011 & 1014 - in many instance I might support your rational. However the MYSA will call emergency meetings by conference call when they view the act being important enough for them to act. They also had about 3-4 days prior to the holidays.
President Bob is a volunteer, but he has never shown leadership in moving the state soccer association forward. The current environment is some of the worst I have seen and it is due to the fact the MYSA is just an administrative office of bureaucrats and not soccer leaders.
tomASS - Regardless of one's opinion of how they run the show, I still think I'd rather have them take a few extra days to get it right and gather all the pertinent info before they decide anything. To me, I can't see how this could be the first time that USYSA has dealt with something like this, so if I were MYSA, I'd tap their experience on this rather than looking like it's a witchhunt or a whitewash.
addendum - MTA also had plenty of time to handle the matter on an internal basis, until of course you ask a lawyers for their input.
MYSA might not even of had to take any measure if MTA acted in a manner that the MYSA thought was appropriate. Unless of course they don't like you and then they want a pound of flesh for a reward.
That's what I really would have liked to have seen. As the keepers of the flame for all that's good in soccer (self-annointed, of course), MTA should have dropped the hammer on this right away. Immediate suspension pending the outcome of an investigation by MYSA or USYSA.
I'd think they (MYSA) would have to decide something, even if it is to suspend progression in the age group, before Friday.
1032 - solid point, but this is not like a criminal case and there is an appeal process available if the person, team, and club feel they got it wrong.
To me it is the coach or coaches that are the core issue.
The game between MTA and EP still should take place. I just want to hear MTA admit that the team that is representing them is there without a victory that was earned, but given to them by internal influences and that is the case whether or not the MTA folks believe AK was involved.
If MTA can live with the fact their possible representation of a team at regions is tainted, I would be ok with that because then it will be very apparent that their actions speak louder than anything else they are marketing. It will also speak loudly about the parents that allow a club to get away with what took place.
Handle the coaches punishment separate.
Funny how Mark admitted his mistake and did what he felt was the right thing by bring things out in the open (with spin of course) and is willing to take whatever punishment is handed.
But no one else involved - parents, club or ownership are also willing to step up and do the right thing themselves.
MTA - do you need PR help? You could have been a shining example to all of youth competitive soccer in the country by doing the right thing yourself to begin with.
Do you think all of those clubs that were listening to MA last year about merging are thanking their lucky stars they didn't get involved with this organization? You better believe they are.
Nobody has mentioned that yet . . . I wonder how the Wings folks feel about their new adopted family now?
there are a lot of folks who post on this thread who will never be lonely................half the time they follow up their own comments with a new one of their own (or just repeat the same thing over and over and over again).
I wonder how many bloggers will be blogging about the U12 MTA Folly instead of watching the best game of 2009 and one of the best matchups in the history of football on Wednesday.
If you're unaware of Cris v Leo, EPL Champs v La Liga Champs, Goliath v Goliath, Man U v Barca, you aren't qualified to contribute to this blog. My guess is that would eliminate 65% of the Anon blogging soccer mommies and daddies.
Snacks are at the ready, the Fat Tire in the fridge and Barca will win 3-1
I think your % is low mama mia
mama mia the problem is most of these idiots who post on this site have no idea about the Champions League Final. Little Johnny came home and wanted to play soccer and now mommy and daddy are suburban soccer parents who think they know it all. It should be a great match and I wish this site would discuss world cup qualifying, EPL, Champions league etc and not have post about 12 year old kids who were just playing a game and trying to have fun when we adults messed it up for them. MA is not the devil and the red devils will not win this time.
You are silly. I don't have to watch the NFL to appreciate good football (in fact i would argue that the NFL is a sub-par product). I can be a football expert and have great knowledge of the sport without following the NFL. The same goes for any other sport MLB, NBA, you name it. In fact I think often the best coaches, minds and keepers of the game actually don't closely follow the professional levels of their sport-they are too busy "doing"-coaching, administrating, etc. so youth can be participants. Just because one is interested in higher levels of soccer (Champions League, etc.) doesn't mean you are more in the know about soccer.
Also, there is less interest in the boys soccer blog because there is less interest in boys soccer in the US. This may sound negative but it is true.
It's humorous watching everyone bashing MTA for an action by one of their coaches.
Do we bash our entire military comprised of hundreds of thousands of volunteers for the actions of a few rogue individuals?
(oh yeah, some left wing kooks do bash our entire military).
Bottom line is this was an extremely poor decision by one coach and now we see people blaming his opponent in that match and also the entire club?
It's quite apparent there's an agenda in play that runs much deeper than Abboud's actions in the semi-final.
It's quite transparent to anyone on the outside looking in.
6:19 - i'm confused....you're first four lines stated that it was a few rogue individuals (IMO - only one), but then your last two lines doing a 180 and pretty much state it was a club decision.
tomASS - What do you expect the parents of the teams (u12G/u13G) to do in this case? What do you believe the right thing for them is here?
Your overreaching by a mile if you think the parents had any recourse when this played out during PK's.
11:46,
I agree, but as long as that's the case with our adults not being aware of the highest levels of football and thus our kids not watching high level football, our kids will continue to lag behind the world in footballing.
what happened yesterday at MYSA?
I don't think the parents of either team had any recourse at the time. The time for action by the U12 parents was at the first meeting. Calling in the MTA board would have been the thing to do way back then. Although given their inaction now, it looks like it might have resulted in nothing.
Reading this blog, it appears that this is MA's world, and everyone else is merely allowed to live in it.
Doesn't anyone have a sense of responsibility anymore? Why is everyone so willing to lie down and play the victim?
Though you may not like the choices you have, you do always have a choice. Inaction is a choice.
I am starting to respect MA, because he is the only person who has spoken up and said "I made a choice". He later decided it was a mistake, but at least he admitted making a choice. Poor AK the victim never had a choice. Poor parents never had a choice.
Take responsibility for your own lives, people.
mama mia - spot on!
I'm not sure I respect owning up to something in the face of irrefutable evidence and dozens of witnesses.
Regarding what MA's U12 parents should have done...
Has anyone on this blog dared to question a "premier" coach's plan of action?
Try it and see what happens to your kids play time , future , etc.
There's a very practical reason for parent's backing down.
Now, on to Champions League final...
GO MAN U !!!
MYSA met last night. 5 year ban coming down on MA. EP to Regionals without a champ game.
759 & 939 - I agree the parents of the of the U13 team had no recourse during the game and at the time of the PKs.
But now the parents of the U13 team had their kids handed a game they did not earn the win.
It was provided to you in a planned, apparent, unsportsmanlike manner. It was provided to the team by cheating.
You could do nothing at the time, but now after the fact I would think you have some choices to ask yourself about.
Are you Ok that you or your player have an opportunity to play in the state championship game even though you did not earn it because another team in your club cheated to support you moving to this position? If so, play on. If you will note, I never said the team should be punished by the MYSA and prohibited from playing.
I do believe the parents now could do the right thing on their own. If they chose not to then just be willing to admit openly that the spot was given to you and you did not earn it by winning the game in the manner it should have been played.
As far as over-reacting. I'm very much unemotional about the situation. I just want MTA to be honest with themselves which I think is lacking right now.
10:57 - Yeah right! Who are you and how do you know?
Our women don't lag behind the world in soccer. Our men do, yes but it is due to other sports being first for males in the US. There are lots of "baseball" people that don't obsess over MLB and lots of "football' people that don't obsess over the NFL and we dominate these sports (I know the rest of the world doesn't participate in American football although it is growing). There are many other sports that we compete well in world-wide and we don't have to know all the leagues and were Carlsburg beer shirts to be good at them. You become good at sports due to training and desire and athletic talent, not because you have the soccer channel on cable.
I don't believe that the State Cup Committee or MYSA will impose any bans that have anything to do with play outside of State Cup. I think that would have to take place at some time down the road assuming someone would file a grievance. Has anyone done that yet?
I believe 10:57 is making it all up.
And 11:15, the only people that should be allowed to file a grievance should be the parents of the U12 girls affected.
I totally agree with the observation that by watching the highest levels of the sport a young player will improve by observation. In fact, many of the coaches in the MTA system have tried to get their players to watch and pick up on how the game can be played. But trying to get a group of 13 year olds to watch for more than 15 minutes is like herding cats.
Anyway on to the final today, will Man U run and gun and play the Blaugranas game, or will they take the Chelsea approach and bunker in? i hope it's run and gun for some excitement. Barca 2 Man U 1.
Messi hopefully can prove he's the best in the world today to a wider audience.
socmom - I have done so in hockey. Yes many coaches make a parent pay for the sins of the parent. It's not right. Says a lot about the coach's character
We'll just go play somewhere else so he can continue playing the sport he enjoys so much.
What is being questioned is not a soccer issue it is a character issue.
Our women don't lag behind because most of the world doesn't put any emphasis on Womens sports. Doesn't mean that Women here can't learn to improve and play a more attractive style of the game than what's currently being played now at the collegiate and national team level.
I'd think almost anyone affected could file the greivance . . . MTA board (never happen), U12s, U13s (assuming they're also punished for complicity), whomever the 12s beat to get to the semi (since they were denied an opportunity by a team that never intended to compete fairly), State Cup Committee, AK if he's sanctioned could file against MA (also never happen). . .
I think it's fair to say that if our kids watched the best pro matches of the year, it would be beneficial. Simple as that.
I hear MA is being offered $10K to write the afterword for The Fix.
Amazon: "The Fix is the most explosive story of sports corruption in a generation. Intriguing, riveting, and compelling, it tells the story of an investigative journalist who sets out to examine the world of match-fixing in professional soccer."
I think Cristiano will prove why he is the best and most versatile attacker in the game with goals from the air and a free kick. ManU 3 Barca 1
cristinao will be flopping and whining as usual, which only distracts from his wonderful ability.
cristinao maybe should have taken the pk for the u12's. At least his misses look realistic ;-)
PS- I'm a Liverpool fan, I can not pull for manu
off topic but....
SSM U16 girls were forced to play in the U16 C3 league this summer. This decision made by the powers that be at MYSA
They have played 4 league games to date and have scored 53 goals and have allowed 0.
Who would make this decision to place this SSM team at C3 and why?
Barca 1-0.
Goal will come from Henry. Always a lot of talent and big names in this final - but this year seems to be packed with more than usual.
Could be a classic.
splitsville
1:12 probably based on their stellar performance at State cUp. Are they in the final?
Perhaps SSM should read the rule about running up the score. MYSA does mention this behaviour in the same section and throwing a game.
Where is the outcry for the victims of this immature running up of the score?
1:12 -
The MYSA probably followed their own rules of promotion / relegation. If this SSM team did not exist last year, they must start up at the C3 level. They can petition to get to a higher level, but there are no guarantees. Other clubs have experienced the exact same issue and chose to play tournament-only or the players found a club with a C1/Premier status, as C3 does not provide a healthy level of competition for some teams (like it sounds for the SSM U16 girls).
Stick a fork in SSM. They aren't at all what they claim to be.
Man U playing bootball. Getting schooled by Barc.
SSM was offered the opportunity to play in a higher level. They chose C3. Why? I don't have THAT much inside information.
Looks like some MTA folks are eager to change the subject. I can see why!
Kassa banned for 2 years - team kicked out of final. Just announced. No word on abboud yet
Duh 2:34... Nothing as such has been announced! If so, where?
2:34 Is EP granted the u-13 championship?
take a break from the silliness and read this blog. Start at the bottum.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/8068355.stm
Caution: You may become a real soccer fan.
1:44,
Except for the SCV boys team that was allowed to play at C1 last year or the year before.
Only difference is that a player on that teams father in on MYSA is a director on MYSA committee.
Where can I look up MYSA committee members? For that matter, is there meeting minutes that can be viewed somewhere?
And... why do you care where this SCV team was allowed to play? Do you lose to them? If so, they shouldn't be playing at a lower level IMHO. Frankly, I think the whole rule regarding starting at the bottom is a poor rule that positively affects no one, and negatively affects players on both sides. Way to go MYSA and CC's.
3:38 what rule?
Barc dominated MU. Barc pinpoint passing contolled the game . So much for MU direct style.Great to see a team play real soccer.
Ronaldo showed his real self with his cheap shots. The guy is out of control when the going gets tough.
Should be mandatory requirement for all Minnesota youth coaches to review Barc practice procedures
Massi has unbelievable on the ball skills. Should be player of the year.
I think 3:23 is just saying they should treat all new teams the same.
Just because a team has a family member on a MYSA committee shouldn't influence how the team is treated.
It's obvious the SSM U16 girls team was treated differently than the SCV boys team.
3;38 - don't blame the CCs with that rule. I can understand why you think the blame might fall there; not this time.
Stupid MYSA rule - they should allow the Directors of Coaching the right to properly place a team for competitive soccer - exception premier of course. Keep a record of the Director of Coaching's or Club's ability to properly place the teams. Take away that privilege if the success/ failure rate drops below 50%
anon 353 - I think you mean Messi?
Iniesta was the motor for Barca tonight.
I agree Messi will dominate the global game for years to come.
A diminuative 5ft 7in 148 lbs with incredible dribbling skills this kid is the best in the world.
The rule was put in place by MYSA in response to CC's complaining that teams like Blackhawks, Bangu, etc were pulling players together and taking spots at the higher levels of play. It was an effort to stop the consolidation of players on "new" teams. In other words, many parents would not leave their CC for a newly formed C3 team... get it? And if you think MYSA rules are not to be blamed on the CC's that have the most votes you are naive. CC's can be the solution or the problem, in the past they have made too many rules that come back to haunt themselves and the kids.
Iniesta is also outstanding. Barc was a machine today.
Have a feeling the subject on the blog is about to change the state cup ruling is out to the teams involved.
Should we start a Champions League Final thread so folks who can't watch game until after work can avoid chatter?
BARCA,BARCA,BARCA!!! 4:03 you're right Iniesta should have been man of the match. He lit the fuse. Puyol was a close second, what a gutsy performance, shutting down Rooney and Ronaldo. Special mention should go to Syvinho, 35 and still sharp and like having another coach on the field. Messi, player of the year, 3 or 4 players to shut him down all year long.
Lots of lessons to be learned by youth teams by watching the style, individual and team skills played by Barcelona, (and Villareal too)
Slightly different take on today's game. It looked to me like ManU had the better of play until Barca snuck one in against the run of play. At that point, ManU became more direct in search of the equalizer. This ultimately left them prone on the second Barca goal.
Don't get me wrong, Barca deserved the win but I don't think they dominated. If that early rebound off of Crybaby's free kick had bounced in for ManU, it could have looked very different.
should have, would have, could have
BUT DIDN'T
404 I get it and most rules are created by the ignorant CC's. I don't believe this one that we are talking about was a AGM vote. I believe it was an executive committee decision. If I am wrong I stand corrected.
However I set in on enough District Operating Committee meetings to know that the CCs were hurt as badly by the rule as the "elite" clubs were when petitioning for teams to be at C1 or C2
Ummm....4:13 look at time of posession. It wasn't in Man U's favor.I will hand this to them, they played a wide open game instad of Chelsea's crappy bunker game vs.Barca.
Doesn't look good for the Thunder faithful :( Pretty severe sanctions.
Where are you finding that the results are in about the game. Im not finding anything at all.
where is the ruling posted? Or are you just posturing?
All affected teams are being notified source: MYSA office. Ruling will be posted on their site(MYSA) as soon as all affected teams are notified.
anon436 - go to the FIFA website
As someone who has successfully petitioned the MYSA for a new team's placement at something higher than C3, I have found it usually comes down to two things: (1) the strength of the combined "resume" of the proposed team, and (2) whether clubs were "raided" to build the team. If a persuasive case is made and raiding has not happened, MYSA has granted C2 status to new teams. There is only one case I have seen where a new team was placed at C1...the SCV boys from three years ago, where a Premier team was basically lifted from White Bear Lake, sprinkled with a few new players, called "new," and was successfully placed at C1. I won't opine on how that happened, but lots of people were ticked at that, which probably hurt the chances of many other new strong teams to be placed where they should be...there was a very strong Bangu girls team and a Thunder PLUS boys team a few years ago, and now the SSM girls.
Bottom line, I think it is smart to protect club raiding. That said, the MTAs of the world won't be playing by the MYSA's rules soon anyway, so it's probably a rule that should be revisited. I mean, if you hold a tryout and get 40 Premier/C1 players showing up for a single C1 team, I think you ought to be able to add a C1 team.
Okay anon know it all. Who are you? How do you know the ruling? When was the ruling made? how was it voted on? Did MA, AK or anyone from MTA have a chance to address MYSA? What was MTA's reccomendations to MYSA?
C'mon, you're throwing things out there. How about some details and accountability (ex your idenitity and involvement).
I won't hold my breath.
TomASS, anybody ever tell you that your the PERFECT Monday Morning QB. Everything that your complaining and acting like your the know it all has already happened. Do you have small man syndrom. Why dont you go out on a limb and tell the masses about what is going to happen for a change and lets see how 100% correct you are. Crying about CR about this and that, Im sure you would of said that if ManU would of won, negative MTA this and that, Maybe its good your out of coaching if that is the real truth of the matter.
I predict an improved MN soccer experience coming in summer 2010!
638 - I predict that you have a bug up your butt,you also lack what the scarecrow was missing, your mom does not charge you much rent for your basement bachelor pad, and the last girl you had contact with was on the computer.
I'm not going out on the limb and I believe the masses know that already. Gee you are so observant!
I guess you can't call me Nostradamus yet.
any final word on the u13 mess. MTA should forfeit the final.
It's all internal to MTA. Doesn't affect any other team or club. There will be no penalty.
927, have you not been keeping up? The State Cup Committee met on the 20th, the MYSA board met last night, those to be affected were notified today. MYSA to post once all have received their notification.
Good luck at regionals EP, mark my words, it's over and MTA 13s are disqualified.
predict 2nd place teams from mta brackets to play for right to play ep. both mta's dq'd.
They should have just threaten to cut the baby in half
Oh my! Check out the State Cup page at MYSA: U13G schedules/results! I can't believe they did that.
If 9:15 is correct - How do you think EP's players would feel about it? Did they earn it?!??!
I am sure the EP coach would be holding his head high knowing his team was given a gift they did not earn
3:53, MN coaches can consider using Barca's training techniques when they have players with 1/100th the skill, athleticism and desire of Toure, Sylvinho and Puyol. Not to mention Messi, Henry and Xavi. It all starts with the players. As noted on Monday, get off the playground and on the pitch.
What's wrong with "club raiding?" If I'm a top level player, why would I want to stay with a bunk CC? That's like telling Messi he should play with Newell's instead of Barca. Play where you'll get the best training with the best teammates on the best stage. MYSA rules should promote this. It helps player development.
Wait, I forgot. This is a soccer mommy sport where we encourage our teams to miss PKs to let other teams win. I just puked in my mouth.
1100 . . . I don't see anything changed yet, still lists 5/17/2009 as last update on the bracket pdf.
Let's not start the "I don't think EP deserved it talk" They did nothing wrong ! MTA Cheated, and now will need to pay the price for those actions. BTW how is it that the MTA 13's could ever say they "earned it"??? The two MTA coaches have really screwed things up for the MTA players. Bad deal for the girls, but EP did nothing wrong.
The MTA coaches screwed themselves. MYSA screwed the players.
Abboud screwed up...no question.
But what could the other coach have done once Abboud directed his girls to pass the ball to the keeper?
Should AK have told his keeper to let the shots go in and compound an already awkward situation?
There was nothing in the U13 team or coaches control that could change what Abboud had his team do.
If they penalize the U13 team for actions out of their control it's a travesty and looks like a witch hunt.
Im not seeing anything anywhere. Where are you all getting your information from.
Making it up as EP-parents tend to do.
One coach, one bad decision, one big mess. How can the U13 be held accountable for the actions of another coach/team?
I think the only reason that the 13's are held at all accountable it because the 12 and 13 coaches are good friends on and off the field and they both work and are directors for the same club. You can call it what it is, its a club nothing more. And when the coaches put the club before the girls thats when theres a problem. From all ive read including MA's blog thats just what he did he put the club before his team. When you throw a game, its called cheating. Its like when a pro player gets paid on the side to throw a game, and it gets caught there are sanctions and penalties that happen. What will happen because this only youth sports is hard to say. If anything happens its hard to say we have to leave it to the powers that be. From what ive looked at there doesnt seem to be anything that is going to happen. They really cant put anyone else in the spot because that wouldnt be fair to the other teams that are not geared up for it. Nor should EP get a walk either. Id like to see the coaches barred from coaching but as far as the girls go no. The 13's played, the 12's on the other hand should not be allowed back into a state cup game. They are the ones that intentionally threw the game. Plus let it be a lesson to only let one team per organization per age level compete in state cup.
8:41, I understand your viewpoint except for the last line. The goal of State Cup is for MN to send their best team to regionals. If 3 of the 4 best teams get to the semi's from the same club or if two teams from the same club make it to the finals isn't that achieving the goal? In the thousands of State Cup games that have been played, one coach made a bad decision so let's amend the rules? What's next, they have to be at least Premier? BTW, I believe State Cup is run under the rules/regulations of USYSA, so I have no idea whether MYSA could put a rule like that into place.
If State Cup's goal is to get the best team to regions it looks like it will miss it's goal this year. I think the top 3 teams are now out of the competition. Maybe the top 4 teams depending on how you look at it.
Odd year for sure at the U-13 level.
8:53 Its because of having more then one team at the age group that MA felt he needed to decide which would do better at state. For instance he has both of his teams playing at the U15 level this weekend. We both know the Blue is better then the white. But what happens if they get to the point where the blue has a few mistakes and the white wins. Or the blue has someone out on injury, and the white were to tie and then the coaches go into the same thing. Its better to have one team per age group.
The coaches screwed themselves and the players. MYSA did nothing other than enforce the rules as they have been applied in past cases. AK screwed his girls when he discussed the arrangement within earshot of anyone (and he did). The argument that they were doing it to send the best representative from MN doesn't hold water either way. Who's to say that the 12s aren't the best representation? If it were a different but apparently superior team to the 12s but with another club name, would MA still have tossed the game in favor of the 'stronger' team? I feel for the 13s, but that's the way the rules work. The team pays the price for infractions done by the coach. Precedent is a wonderful thing because it eliminates any validity to the witchhunt tag. Get over yourselves and deal with the consequences the way the club should have to begin with (withdrawing their teams proactively and suspending both coaches).
And I agree, I don't think a rule such as that would pass muster w/USYSA.
9:09 - I understand, but MA only coaches one team (has nothing to do with either of the U15's).
If both teams came from a CC, the occurrance would probably be celebrated as a "victory". The view always looks different depending on where you sit.
if they are disqualified , does that knock them out of mrl entry
lc
lc - not following you.
GGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDD......
The sound of lc's axe.
Wow, lc, that's a can of worms. Technically, they did participate in State Cup (a requirement), but they need approval of their state association and I don't think that would happen now.
2.13 Final Authority
The MRL after consultation with State Associations shall have the final authority and right to
refuse admittance of any team based upon the team’s prior performance in the MRL. These
factors include, but are not limited to: failure to play MRL matches as scheduled; failure to
comply with MRL rules; failure to pay MRL referees; and/or failure to pay assessed MRL fees or
fines on time.
939 here again, my point being, maybe their record in MRL last year will be enough to give the some pull. Did they play U13MRL as U12's last year (AKs U13s, that is)? How'd they do, if they did?
my vague notion that 4 semi-finalists are the qualifiers for mrl,
the wording on how they end this state cup may be an issue,
lc
People are talking like this is a done deal. Did I miss an official announcement?
thank god it's all about the kids....
but in a round about way it is for the kids - the kids who have the most to gain are the kids of the parents who want to hammer a team of 13 year old girls (going out on a limb here, but lc sounds very DREV-ish).
Let's all hope MN draws ND, SD, and IA in our group so our 13s have a chance to tie a game or two. I'd say 4th best team is off to Sioux Falls, but stuff happens. Wonder if Wayne will write another poor excuse for a book about this?
As for the U13 MTA players - it sucks that they're getting punished for the actions of their coach/director, but MYSA needs to come down extra harsh on anything MA or MTA to prove to their members clubs that they (MYSA) is no joke. Good luck at US Club Regionals MTA. Wonder if any of them will bolt from the club due to this? Heard Dakota Rev is entertaining phone calls. So is EP.
idle speculation from the gallery,
if one or both are dq'd can they abscond the mtn slot
& make an team with involved players for mrl
lc
bullseye
Just a thought...
After reading the USYS MN State Cup Championship Rules...
(8. b. Forfeits for Failure to Compete)
I'm wondering if MA should have tried a "legal forfeit" (my words).
Does anyone have first hand State Cup experience with this sort of thing?
9:57, Edina vs Prior Lake tonight to see who takes on EP this weekend. Either way you're right on about the draw, and about the books.
9:53 What does DREV have to gain, they are out of the tournament. EP beat them fair and Square?
What time is the game? where is to be played? Prediction Edina 2-1
Dig people, dig . . . look around and you'll find that other state associations had similar circumstances (it's a shame we don't learn) in the past. Both teams DQ'd, both coaches banned for varying amts of time. Surprisingly not always teams from same club. Or better yet, call MYSA and find out something and post it on here so we can all stop hanging.
There is no U13 MRL
Not so fast . . . USClub, SAY, AYSO, USYSA . . . all have reciprocal ban agreements (which, of course, can be appealed). By the time they sort it all out, it'll be too late for US Club Regionals/Nationals
Game tonight? Really? show me where it's scheduled. Again, a lot of stuff, but nothing official?
10:20
State cup has an impact on MRL placement for these teams next year as 14s.
anon 957 - You have never looked into one of Wayne's books have you?
Some of the best creative training session for all ages can be found in his books. Of course I am bias.
most of his training sessions incorporate off the ball awareness which is so key to player development. Many session require the player to think 2-3 steps ahead.
If a player doesn't know what their options are prior to receiving the ball it is typically too late.
So take all the shots you want at Wayne personally. Until you have tried some of his training sessions I wouldn't opine
Do Wayne's books have a chapter on how to pressure and coerce teenage girls to play for the proper club by threatening them with not playing for their High School team which he coaches?
Tick Tock 1045 - nope.
He has turned past that chapter, admitted responsibility, paid a fine out of his own pocket, and was censured by the MSHSL. It has been what 3-4 years on that one now.
That's a big chip to be carrying around for that long.
YYAAAAAAAWWNNNNNNNNNNN
tomASS . . . I concur. Have had several unpleasant run-ins w/WH administratively and on the field. But I love his books. His defending books are extremely similar to the coaching I received as a player from a former pro player who was my coach for a couple of years.
So, what's the scoop on MA/AK/MTA team/club sactions, if any? I read a bunch of fodder above, but it seems all to be pure speculation... Keep it real please. Duping blog readers with lies is a waste of everyone's time.
anon 1054 - correct, but when you can post whatever you want without being held accountable for it, it is easy to post anything.
1006 where did you get your info? It sounds like the rumor I heard last week from a reliable source.
What about a rule proposal that doesn't limit # of teams from a particular club, but limits teams to playing only in the lowest age group for which they qualify?
I believe Region 4 has several states with rules to that effect.
anon 1104 i think I got it from the same source as you did. But it is true and i have verified it with both PL and Edina people. Game at Coon rapids
It will be interesting to see what "proof" MYSA puts out to indicate the U13 coach was involved. This would go far to remove the "witch hunt" label on this scandal.
10:06
I heard the Burkhardt twins younger sister have been added to the Prior Lake roster so they should give Edina a run for their money now tonight.
Why don't clubs with multiple teams (i.e. MTA) have their own playoff a week prior to State Cup for one slot? To have 1 team from a club.
Why don't all C1 & new Premier teams have their own playoff a week prior to State Cup to make up a total of 8 teams in State Cup? To limit the number of blowout matches.
Bottom line, MYSA has never been creative or clever in their structuring of tournaments and leagues. Look what they do to the districts and state tournaments. I can only hope they are all volunteers.
I'm not sure I have a problem with a witch hunt if there are witches about and it can be proven (if she sinks she's not a witch). I'm not sure that MYSA has to put out the proof to anyone other than MA and AK, so unless they put up a stink . . . the truly honorable thing to do would have been to not retract AK's blog entry and MTA to have inflicted their own punishment. Their inaction is gutless and will reflect badly on them.
Has anyone saved that blog entry? Reposting it on here would be eye-opening for the excuse makers, I think.
why is 13 g 5 a group when most others have a play-in
tomASS - its not nearly a big enough chip. What he did was unbelievably corrupt and all he got was a slap on the wrist, you yourself even made light of it earlier on this blog about how you've out done him by being reprimanded more than him by MSHSL. I'm sure that fine he paid was more than covered by the additional revenue of EP kids too scared to leave that club for fear of it hurting their high school careers.
The message was sent, people in EP "get it now." Either play for his club, write your checks to him, or he will hold it against you. It's an unbelievable scam, and what's most disappointing is the athletic department at EP seems to just go along with it.
You keep trying to change the subject calling it ancient history, but its hardly ancient and it sure isn't history. I know of at least one member of the current U16 group who has stayed there solely because of this fear.
don't act like he's "paid his due." He continues to profit from his corrupt ethics, long after that "harsh" (hard to say it with a straight face) punishment.
nobody associated even in the slightest with WH has ANY right to ever talk down about MTA or any other club when it comes to accusations of putting money ahead of kids.
tick tock.
a state cup final 8 could be scheduled years in advance, instead of the current weeks.
lc
Since we're talking about WH's issues still, does that mean that this thread on the U12/U13 catastrophe will continue for several years too?
12:02 It is important for me and others out here that believe the truth matters.
1218 Of course the truth matters, but as long as AK and MA know the witness(es) statement(s) and are fine with it, I'm not sure it's beneficial to anyone to 'out' someone that will be considered a rat by some and called a liar by others.
WH would not be a discussion point if they same thing wasn't still going on 3 years later. It happens at other CC clubs as well.
We can't handle the truth.
Col. NJ
Cheatin. We talkin bout cheatin.
AI
I think the biggest fallacy in all of this is the notion that HS soccer matters. Most players are not recruited on the basis of what they do for 6 weeks with a throw together team from several clubs. Plus all the college coaches are way too busy during the fall to pay much attention to HS soccer in MN. They come to State Cup and Showcase tournaments. If you looked at the MLS draft or the ODP rosters, you wouldn't find many touting their HS experiences, but rather what their club team did.
Anonymous said...
What about a rule proposal that doesn't limit # of teams from a particular club, but limits teams to playing only in the lowest age group for which they qualify?
I believe Region 4 has several states with rules to that effect.
28/5/09 11:22 AM
Iv been told IL and WI do??
EP vs. PL is scheduled for 5:30 at LWB
Still waiting.
I'm still waiting for those who know so much to identify themselves and give details. Good thing I chose not to hold my breath.
I think it is Edina vs PL. EP plays the winner on Sat. Morning.
These very situations were discussed by some of the MTA directors during the pre-season.This wasn't a spur of the moment decision. They try to throw MA under the bus and it will all come out. Have the directors testify to get the truth.
EP and Prior Lake both have league games scheduled for tonight http://www.mnyouthsoccer.org/standsum/schedscores.cfm?l=SG13C1
Why would anyone satisfy your curiousity 1:20 . . . it's so entertaining to watch you swing in the wind. You'll know the truth this evening when they play and then I want you to come onto this forum and apologize to anyone that will read it. Things don't have to be proven that will happen or won't, just bide your time and see what a fool you're making out of yourself by demanding proof. I also don't see you coming out with anything official to deny it or identify yourself.
1:20 Call MYSA and ask for the woman handling this issue. she will say that the affected teams have been notified. It doesn't take to much investigation to see that Edina and PL would play because they were the second place teams in the brackets the MTA teams came from.
sad news for the MTA KIDS, Sounds like pretty strong punishment for the both coaches.
Also heard MYSA has not yet imposed their penalties but due to the timing of the games the National sanctioning board needed to release their judgement for State Cup. Hard to believe any other sanctioning committee would do anything but be consistant with the State Cup committee's penalties. That is just speculation on my part.
Also, emailed USCS and got a response indicating that they uphold sanctions by any USSF organization, so looks like MA and AK are screwed in more ways than you can count. You can bet the USYSA will push USSF to uphold those sanctions if appealed to allow USCS coaching to continue.
From 1:10 p.m...."What about a rule proposal that doesn't limit # of teams from a particular club, but limits teams to playing only in the lowest age group for which they qualify?"
That's ridiculous! If the girls can compete at a higher age group - and Mark's U12s can certainly do so - then they should be allowed to play. No game should have been thrown, and we wouldn't be talking about this rule proposal had it not been.
I don't get it. Disqualify the MTA U12s (which they did themselves via willful forfeit), and let the U13s play EP as planned! Prior Lake and Edina did not win their groups. They are thus inferior teams (I mean by group play result standards, so don't jump all over me for writing "inferior"). Worst case, let Prior Lake play the MTA U13s in a semi-final replay.
But, as it stands. if EP beats the MTA U13s, then they deserve to go...likewise for the MTA U13s.
I was just made aware from a friend that this blog exists and just spent over 3 hours reading through the postings. I'm amazed at how so many people get wrapped up in this drama. People! Wake up! This is a game. Yes, we all live and love it, but it's still a game. MTA is just a club that promotes player development and their own successes (for both club and player).
We left a community club because the club did not invest in itself (e.g., unqualified volunteer coaches, lack of player commitment to the sport and personal development, etc.). MTA is plainly serious about soccer. They are not the enemy.
There are a lot of jealous/envious people out there. But don't take it out on Mark and Andy. Mark, self-admittedly, screwed up. And he is being crucified here for that. His intent, however, was noble... I don't agree with it, but it was for the betterment of others (other players in his club, the other team, his club, whatever...but not for him).
1205coward - cry me a river.
You can choose to label the man whatever you would like to. I know the man. He is far from being corrupt ethically. I will stand by my friend and mentor and judge him as a complete person.
We have clarity on where you stand. Find a better therapist.
At least I can tell Wayne to F-himself to his face when we disagree.
you would be probably standing in a puddle of yellow if you were told that you could tell him to your face how you feel.
1:42 - AMEN - Right on.. I could have not said it any better myself. We left a CC for the same reasons and have not regretted it for one second!
1:42 It's not ridiculous, it's already happening in many states that have had incidents similar to what just happened here. It only applies to State Cup and there's nothing preventing teams from finding great competition in higher age groups in any other tournament. State Cup has special ramifications and implications that should not be tarnished by this type of BS. If a reasonable rule can be crafted, it should be. We're not taking away anything from anyone. They'll still be 13 in a year, they can still play up in league and anything else. Of course we wouldn't be talking about this if the game hadn't been thrown. That's a ridiculously obvious statement, but here we are, and there are other states that have dealt with this previously. If it's worked for them, it's worth thinking about to avoid adults hurting more kids with their good intentions.
mama mia - why should any club be limited to just one team? to allow other teams the chance to get to semis?
The two U13B MTA teams are not worthy of seeing each other in the final of the state's biggest prize? Same with the U15G? You would rather have these "finals" take place hidden away somewhere, with one team not realizing the benefits of being a state cup finalist? (i.e. tourney acceptance, MRL, resume for players)
think of the MTA16B second team - are they not worthy of being in the state cup final this weekend, because odds are they would have lost to the first team in a club playoff?
I know you are just tossing ideas out, and I think your intentions are positive, but let's never limit who can enter the event. Many made that suggestion years ago when I was on the state cup committee, but were targeting teams that were "a waste of their time" to play against.
I am, generally, not for the idea of new rules limiting participation in what should be an open event.
1:55 so the U13 MTA team gets the shaft and your OK with that?
I don't like the idea of limiting the number of teams from a club, but I think the playing in your proper age group at State Cup has some merit. If, by Mark's own admission, the younger team doesn't stand a chance at regionals, then don't enter them, or better yet, don't have that out there as a possibility via a rule change. I think the idea to limit it to one team per club is a poorly veiled attempt to break up anything below the Blue level teams.
I'm ok with the rules being applied in a manner consistent with how they have been in similar circumstances. If that means the 13s pay for AK's sins, then so be it. I feel for the girls . . . if it was mine, I'd be calling for MA and AK's head as well as any MTA board member who didn't come down on them right away (which is basically everyone of them as far as I can tell). Where's the Thunder Mgmt on this too. Here's one of their staff majorly damaging their relationship with the soccer community!
YESSSSSSSSSSSS someone finally got under tomASS's self righteous sanctimonious skin.
today.
was a good day.
How about making sure all teams from the same club must play in the same bracket? If a club tries to pull any funny business it can be limited to pool play only. I know manipulation can still happen ie: one team unexpectedly loses an early game and their final game is against another team from their same club, they could find a reason to throw a game.
Solution could be to make sure the teams from the same club play each other first in pool play. Just throwing out some ideas. I think they make some sense but (not that you need my approval) shoot holes in them.
Signed, Trying to find a fair solution
so thats what a "tomASS" post looks like when he can't come up with anything legitimate to come back with?
frankly, I am a little disappointed in you there captain know-it-all.
Of course 1205 would never tell WH what he thinks of him, it would get his daughter cut from the high school team.
Wouldn't that have the same effect as limiting the number of teams from a club, since only one could advance to the semi-finals?
It's amazing they're hanging AK out to dry with evidence from Abboud's blog?
Did they interrogate AK? Or MA?
We know Abboud admitted his mistake? So AK g
Sounds like a kangaroo court to me with no input from the coaches that we know of.
cmon, the standard to enter state cup is whether the team will have a chance at regionals? several empty or 1-2 team state cup ages would be the result
2:26 What did you hear, and without completely exposing who you are tell us what you know please.
Again, if you're a good enough player, what would getting cut from the HS team do other than allow your to go back to training with your usual trainer, rest up some of your injuries, and breathe a sigh of relief at not having to play boot ball with a bunch of hacks. Does anyone really think that a HS Championship team would stand a chance against a U17 State Cup team? Double-digit win by the club, baby!!
trying to find a solution - something else should be mentioned here - the two teams involved are actually from different clubs.
219 - sorry it came off that way and to disappoint you.
You can always dream that it actually happened.
And if it makes you feel better I'm glad it helped. I didn't know that how I felt or reacted played such an important aspect of your life. I guess I really do need to start taking myself more seriously.
just tired of this one coward's parental whining and rhetoric.
There's nothing more to debate regarding the matter.
Couldn't tell what AK did or didn't do/know/acknowledge since he/MA deleted his blog entry . . . pretty cowardly. And they're not using MA's blog at all, btw. It's witness testimony and Mark's written remarks to MYSA that are hanging the two of them. And don't blame the cop, when the crook confesses. It's more amazing that you still believe something as ridiculous as AK's lack of participation in this sham.
Anonymous 2:07,
Good point. However, I'm in the camp that thinks 2nd place is the 1st loser. You must be a soccer mommy from MTA who encourages your team to hand your opponent a win because they're older and better on paper (it will never get old - MTA asked for it).
I doubt 2nd place finishes in State Cup have any impact on tournament acceptance. I predict there will soon come a time when top level MTA teams will be accepted to just about anything just for being MTA.
Anonymous 12:55,
Good point.
tomass whole - see above. what is legitimate response to a 3-4 year old argument. I would hope the parents kid is in college by now. If so then one would think he would have the balls and backbone to finally get something off his chest that has been bothering him for a long time.
There is nothing that I am going to say that is going to change his mind. You can talk with village idiots, but is is best you just let them return to their home than argue what direction that might be
WOW did AK confess??!!
edina vs pl...still no confirmation yet. is this more ranting!
2:36,
What would AK need to do to participate?
What action did he or his team do other than play the game?
Think about it. What did AK or his players need to do to pull this off?
Stop the Pks? Check!
Make their PKs? Check!
What did they do worng by doing what they did?
Now if I was judge/jury in this, I think AK's silence in the face of witness testimony would be damning as well as the retraction of the blog entry. I would have had some sympathy if he claimed that since it came from his boss/mentor/guru, he didn't feel like he had an option to say no.
The players should not be punished. The 13s team that made it through should be in the final. MA should be out for 3 years, AK out for 2 year, and MTA fined $5000.
Now, when will MYSA take up the issue of the U17 SCV team being allow to form at C1 several years back?
1. They cheated and they gained by cheating?
2. MYSA director and his friends that made the decision should be banned from MYSA activities for 3 years and banned from hold MYSA positions for life.
3. SCV should be fined $5000
4. Team should be disqualified from State Cup, have last years title stripped and not be allowed to play in MRL.
After all, fair is fair.
2:54,
Tell me how AK could stop Abboud's team from passing the ball to AK's keeper?
Simple question....right?
2:54 -
1. easy, consent to arranging to fix a game within earshot of someone willing to talk (that happened).
2. colluded to determine the winner
3. just say 'no'
Failure to report an ethical breach is itself an ethical breach. He had the time and ability to change the way events unfolded and did nothing. And for that his team will pay the price. It's called disrespecting the game that's given so much to him. Bringing disrepute to his team, club, state cup and anyone associated with this embarrassment.
I have personnel experience with WH from the boys side of things. I have NO respect for the man. Any coach that comes on to a field after losing the game screaming at the referee's "You will never F#&* referee for this club again" Should not be a Coaching Director of the club, should not be associated with the high school and should not coach youth soccer. WH is no angel and has certainly benefitted from MNHSL lack of tinkle bells.
I would suspect that alot of the out rage on this blog over MTA & SSM are from the EDP part of town. I suspect the rumors of a petition of sancations that someone is trying to start probably has being started from this club. The question I have is, can they hold themselves to the same standards.
TomAss - you coach an EDP team last year. Can you say you never turned and yelled at the parents to shut up.
So a bit of restraint maybe in order by EDP & TomAss. The fact of the matter is the rules you make today may bite you in the ass tommorrow.
What would really put the icing on this cake would be if it turned out that one of AK's own players turned him in. After seeing how it was actually a positive experience at Regionals for them as U12s, maybe they felt some empathy for the current U12s and ratted him out for his complicity!! Purely speculation, but it'd make a great story karma-wise.
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